Pablo Torre Finds Out - We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

It is an infamous basketball ad that keeps going viral as much for its cringe-worthiness as the mystery of its simple message: "sportsmanship." But correspondent Zach Schwartz embarked on a two-and-a-half-year quest to meet the anonymous actor who's gotten dunked on by Twitter for more than a decade. Now, he helps us untangle a web of links from March Madness to Madison Avenue; a Supreme Court justice to a secretive billionaire; and the Dalai Lama to Damian Lillard (who agreed to go on the record). And we learn the true meaning of "perseverance" in the process.For more Zach Schwartz, you can visit his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@zach_schwartzAnd special thanks to Goodnight, Texas for blessing this episode with their hit song, "The Railroad": https://youtu.be/1sp33WgVWMA Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today, we're going to find out what this sound is. I touched it. I touched the ball before I went out, coach. Right after this ad. You're listening to Draf Kings Network. I have this issue when I, like, go out and I talk to people in real life and they're like,

so what do you do? And I have to explain what my show is. And I've settled upon, I've settled upon Zach, a summary, which is basically I use journalism to solve mysteries that are technically about sports. It's a good way to put it. It's a very good way to put it. I only just recently started calling myself a journalist because, like, produce some stuff and then I, like, did social media and made memes for people for a long time.

But the real, like, lead of your, of your bio now is Zach Schwartz, guy who is truly unparalleled in a very specific obsession about the worst commercial in the history. history of sports. My wife said, that's when I found that you're a real sports pervert, is when you were, like, trying to find this guy and how obsessed you were with it. Because it was very early on in our relationship, and I had to find him. I want to explain what this commercial is, because it's not really selling a product, I guess.

It stuck with me, the ad. Like, I remember seeing it in the wild, like, all. on television, obviously before it started going viral. It ran all the time, especially during March Madness. If you Google the term, worst commercial ever in quotes on YouTube, this is right there in the first couple results. It's over a million views on that video alone. There are many, many more.

It goes viral seemingly all of the time. I feel like we should just play it. Yeah. Because this is what this, again, viral commercial sounds like any high school gym in america sort of looks like this we see the scoreboard to start the game it says 63 65 nine seconds left oh god we see the team of the white jerseys on a fast break uncontested easy dunk yeah here comes the trap they're bringing a fresh trap quick ball goes to the sideline which is not really where you're just throwing

In that situation, we see a player white tip the ball out of bounds. The important part is the ref didn't see the ball go off the kid in a white jersey. Time, time out. Coach calls his time out. I got the perfect sideline out of bounds for this. I'm going to cook here. They all go to the huddle to get the play. Yeah.

The player who we think tipped the ball out, but they didn't call it on him, has this very guilty look on his face. He has a truly, this is like the dictionary definition of a hang dog look. His eyes are as big as saucers. His lip is basically quivering. He is looking up apologetic seemingly for what he's about to reveal. I touched it. I touched the ball before it went out, coach.

Come on, Alex. The rest did not call that. You got to be kidding me, Alex. It's the championship game. Talk to him, coach. I touched it. It's their ball. His teammates are furious, quite upset.

A kid with acne is as mad at Alex as a person can be. That's that acutane rate. How's going, Alex? Sorry, Coach. Alex. And the coach gives Alex to, like, you know what? You do what you think is right. Alex.

Good call. Sportsmanship. Pass it on. Right. And we see Alex brought over to the raft to snitch on himself. And the commercial ends with a sportsmanship, pass it on message. Yeah, values.com, the foundation for a better life. It feels like a couple of.

commercial about sports made by people who have never seen sports before. Yes. It's like this is what you should do as if this is a plausible thing that anybody in that very specific circumstance would ever actually do. Totally. And like there are so many other ways to do this ad that would be plausible. Like someone sets a really hard ball screen. You run over and help the guy up.

That's sportsmanship. But no one snitching at this level. I mean, if anything, the players like turning to the other guy. I totally tip that to the opponent and walking off. Like, you're not telling the ref that. And just to give a sense of, like, the level of obsession that people have had with this specific scenario played out this way. I heard Ron Rusillo and Bill Simmons talk about this at one point a couple of years back.

And then the player looks at Coach, he's like, coach, it was off me. And coach is, like, looking at him being like, there's a real lesson here. It's a teaching moment. And the whole team's looking at the kid. And then the kid goes up to the ref for the first time in the history of anything where he goes to the refs. He goes to the refs like, hey, it was off me. And the refs like, all right, balls the other way.

And then it's like, that's the lesson. And I think it had to have been a religious thing. For bounty towels? Or it was for towels. Yeah. It was one of those, one of the two things. And people have been fascinated with this ad for years. You've never seen this ad.

I remember it, but it was, what, 10, 15 years ago? It was to say. Wow. Scholars have argued. It's timeless. TikTok captions, because it's obviously made its way over there. They include things like, quote, they definitely jumped Alex in the locker room.

A lot of those. And the cultural spectrum on this extends obviously to like barstool sports, which has labeled this with a headline, quote, March Madness commercial about sportsmanship features the biggest nerd ever. And the write-up says, fuck Alex, Alex deserves to have all of his clothes

thrown in the shower, end quote. It just recirculates because everybody is cringing and then choosing to dunk on this incredibly implausible morality play. And, God, Alex kind of became the lightning rod for all of it. And so for you, when did you begin to wonder, okay? Everybody keeps talking about Alex. Yeah.

Who is he? When does that question first enter your mind? So I used to host this podcast for Wave called Out of Pocket. And it was Josiah Johnson and with Jethrin Jenkins. You guys who are very good at NBA Twitter. And the whole sort of center of all this is NBA Twitter. Anyone that spent any time on NBA Twitter knows this ad. It basically goes viral every six months.

So we were doing our show. We've had just brought in Paul George. Paul George's show is blowing ours out of the water. And I'm like, I got to find a guest for our show that Paul George could never get for his. So I was like, what's the most viral basketball thing that people would be like, oh, my God, you found that guy. And it was Alex. It became pretty clear as soon as I started looking into this myself that Alex was not eager to be discovered. That's where the journey sort of started.

I was like, I'm going to do it for our season finale episode. I think I had three weeks. Like, I'll find him. That's so much time. It took a lot longer than three weeks. It took, I think, like two and a half years basically to find him. How did you start your quest to find Alex? So first it was reverse image searching his face

and seeing if I could find anything off of that. Because I was like, hey, like, maybe the reason no one's done this video or found him is because they weren't using the modern tools that we have today. Didn't work. So then, for those that don't know, IMDB is a database where you can look up actors for movies. They have something similar for actors and commercials.

So I was like, okay, I'll use that. Nothing. Couldn't find anything there. I started reaching out to friends of mine that directed commercials in LA, like, hey, is there a database or a casting director you could put me in touch with? And they kind of were like from an ad that long ago, no one I know would work on it. And so, okay, let's see if the charity can help. So this charity, this foundation, which again, in the commercial, it's flashed on screen to the very end, the foundation for a better life at values.com. When you start to look into this website, what do you begin?

to see. There's just not enough information out there about the foundation. There's no interviews or articles. And it kind of triggered this sort of siren in my head. Like, something weird is happening here because no one talks. No one's ever written a profile about the foundation or what they do. The website, for the most part, looks like it was designed in 2011 and just left. The text on the website, Zach, it's so.

anodyne. I'll read it off of the site right now. They say, quote, we choose values we hope most individuals would find encouraging and relevant. Then we provide an uplifting message based on each value in an effort to encourage people to bring out the best in themselves. And they go on. As a nonpartisan, non-sectarian organization, we carefully design our public service messages to have general universal appeal. And then they say, the foundation's small staff worked with a network of writers, art directors, and production professionals. And none of that is very helpful. No.

None of that is, like, giving us an actual detail. So what do you guys do here? And so, you know, I called them. It's one of those calls where you put on, like, the nicest voice. Hi, my name's Zach, and I have an obsession with this really famous ad that you guys made from a long, long time ago. Yeah, this ad that I definitely haven't made

fun of online with millions upon millions of people exactly like me. And I was like, can you please just help me locate the actor? The secretary was very kind. I would love to help you. And like, what a neat project. You know, unfortunately, I can't release any names. You basically have to write the CEO and get his consent and he'll release the information to you.

So then I emailed the CEO and he was really dismissive. I read his message. He's very like, I'm not releasing the name to you. Sorry, go away. And that made me more, Matt. Oh, yeah. So then I'm like,

what is this foundation? Why are you being secretive? Why are you trying to hide who this person is? So I did the next logical thing, and I pulled like 13 years worth of their tax records. So the limited research that I have done compared to your mountain of deep diving, Zach, the first thing you realize,

when you research the foundation for a better, life on YouTube, is that Alex is not alone. Because apparently there is a whole catalog of commercials beyond simply the story of Alex and sportsmanship that are about stuff like not shoplifting CDs. This one's titled Do the Right Thing. Come on, man. Just do it quick. No one's watching.

The other one, too. Good job. Do the right thing. Pass it on. A message from the foundation for a better life. And then there's also this one that I wanted to play for everybody, because it's called umpire. My father was a great hitter,

but he knew that life was about more than just one game. It's like a sepia-toned, almost old-timey baseball kind of aspect here. Who you are today, who you'd like to be, and no matter the decision there'll be one more coming through Oh, he was so safe

The umpire has called a man out Who was safe by a zillion miles So when that umpire made a bad call That ended the game for dad And then needed help with his car My father made the right call Helping others The right choice

Pass it on A message from the foundation for a better life. And so who is the person behind these ads, Zach? Who is the person that the secretary and the CEO unhelpfully in the end would not connect you to? His name's Philip Anshus. He is a billionaire. And he's been a billionaire for a very long time.

Forbes magazine has their list of the wealthiest Americans. And four of a Coloradans make the top 400. They got money. Number one is in surprise, Philip Anshutz, the wealthiest person in our state with a net worth of $16.9 billion. That makes him 45th for the USA. Only? Only. CNN called him the richest American you've never heard of.

Fortune also called him the greediest executive. He started running his dad's oil business at the age of 20, made his money drilling, fracking, also ran Union Pacific Railroad. As an adult, I've spent my business career working on companies and in industries that have always been firmly rooted in the West, often companies that are quite historic in nature. And then, you know, things that maybe are more in our lives than oil and railroads is that he owns AEG, Ange Luce Entertainment Group, who does Coachella. They own crypto.com arena. And he's also managed to kind of scoop up a few different sports teams.

Right. L.A. Kings, L.A. Galaxy. And then he's financed movies Chronicles of Narnia. He did the movie Ray. Like, he's kind of everywhere, but you have no idea that he's there because he is truly one of the most behind-the-scenes billionaires ever. He has his name on the championship trophy in Major League Soccer. And yet I have never undeferexed.

Till, talking to you for this episode, thought, who the fuck is that guy? I found it very interesting that this person who has Coachella, which is about as godless of a place, as you can go legally. Also, it pushes these very conservative, God-forward, church-forward messages. And so that was very interesting,

kind of as I dove deeper and deeper and found out about the different groups that he was kind of financing and funding and some of the initiatives that they were behind. Yes, so just to tick off some of them here, the Federalist Society, which is a very famous, historic at this point, conservative and libertarian legal organization, he's a big donor to them, it turns out. The Heritage Foundation, the right-wing think tank, Anshut's also a big donor to them. He also appears in New York Times headlines, such as, quote, Neil Gorsuch has web of ties to secretive billionaire. The billionaire being Philip Anshutz, Neal Gorsuch, aforementioned, being the Supreme Court justice now,

This goes back to the 2000s, I guess, when Anschutz and his companies hired said future Supreme Court Justice as their outside counsel. He is simply, Zach, one of the most conservative owners in all of sports. He's given to Republican candidates. Anshutes has reportedly, you know, funded anti-gay ballot measures, anti-union, anti-weed, anti-science. I mean, there's a lot of things that he's done over these years. And you're kind of like, okay, so the foundation for a better life is sort of just like the diet version of those messages, if you will. Like he's sort of like stripped off all the nasty parts that he's doing over on the side there. The part that I do need to say, I guess for legal reasons, is that Philip Anjutes is the type of guy also who does not grant interviews.

The New Yorker, by the way, has reported previously that he does not even use a cell phone or email. But he also declared that reports about his donations to homophobic political organizations were, quote, fake news and garbage. And he indicated that he stopped funding said groups, which to his apparent surprise, did say, support such causes. But as much as he is trying to not actually be heard in public, we did find a bit of rare video of this man. This is at the 84th annual U.S. Conference of Mayors. It was 2016, and it's a translator who is translating for the Dalai Lama, and next to them is Lady Gaga. Here is Philip Anshutes actually speaking out loud. You have the leader of one of the world's great religions.

You have a world-class entertainer. And then you have this obscure business guy. And it's unlikely that we're discussing kindness of all things, not a very precise term. So if you're wondering how rich Philip Anshutz is, he has the kind of money where Lady Gaga and the Dalai Lama are just chilling on stage, listening to him, talk about sportsmanship or whatever.

Things like fairness, trust, learning, perseverance, love, patience, optimism, humility, confidence, civility. These are universal values that transcends race and religion and politics. I like that he had to go into his code to take out the values that he wanted to specifically name. Like, brother, you can't just name it. like loyalty, sportsmanship, honesty, respect off the top. Like, you had to go to the note. Yeah.

But all of it is to say that, yeah, like the diet religiosity of this meant for broad appeal, it feels like a motivational college dorm room poster. Like, that's what this whole thing is. All the ads read very much like the poster where the cat is like hanging from the tree and it's like hanging in there. All of the ads kind of read like that. This whole operation that Anshu's. has funded, it seems like their mission, if nothing else, is to be as omnipresent as they can be.

Yeah, it's billboards, radio ads, TV ads. The billboards were really mocking me and seeing them everywhere, seeing them on Santa Monica Boulevard near the 405. It sort of led me on my spiral where I felt like Jillon Hall in Zodiac, where it's just like this thing is sort of taken over my life to a degree that it really shouldn't. there's this wonderful one that Shaq is a part of. He's holding a basketball, wearing a cap and gown, and it looks like he loves civility.

Yeah, I mean, it says perseverance. He's holding a basketball like he got his doctorate's degree in basketball, which he did do. But in your defense, just psychologically speaking, the foundation did release the following statistic. The campaign has apparently aired in more than 200 countries. Nielsen says that the ads at one point had more than 10 million impressions each day on U.S. network television.

And then Current Affairs Magazine estimated that there were once as many as 10,000 billboards, Zach, across the United States. Apparently, according to the Outdoor Advertising Association of America, it is the most widespread and successful PSA Billboard campaign in United States history. They're everywhere, and their reach for these campaigns is so impressive. And I reached out to a friend of mine that worked in advertising, actually for Viacom for a long time. He did TV ad sales.

The way he kind of broke it down for me is that, like, you know, we talk about the Alex ad running during March Madness. Well, those spots for March Madness could be hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. And so he kind of gave me a wide range of what they could be. Like, you know, it's something like late at night could be in the tens of thousands of dollars to, you know, a March Madness spot that could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. So these spots are obviously very very. valuable. They're running all the time because the foundation doesn't have some huge operating

budget to go out and buy ad times. I was trying to figure out how they're getting these ads on billboards or on TV. And the way it works is if you as a network have ad inventory, you could take that and donate it to them and write off on your taxes and basically say, hey, that inventory that I gave away was worth a million dollars, $100,000, a couple million dollars. Good on me, pat on the back, I did my thing. I'm writing that off on my taxes as a network saying, I made this wonderful charitable donation. And so that's sort of what this foundation has become,

is that it's sort of a way for people to write off, hey, I did this wonderful deed without having to do research or find charities to actually go approach. Somehow tax write-offs on a big poster underneath a kitten, not as inspirational. And I think part of it, of it that frustrated me was that while I understand the messages and it's important to teach people about perseverance or honesty or being truthful or whatever.

We are a pro-perseverance podcast. Yes. For the record. It's important. And I'm not saying it isn't. But shouldn't that be going to like a foundation that's trying to help get people clean water or like there are just so many things out there that are bigger issues in my mind than, you know, have.

I'm really happy Shaq got his degree in perseverance. But I need more. So this is where I should jump in to say that Philip Anshut's company, the Anshutes Corporation, did decline our request here at Pablatore finds out for an interview with the 45th richest man in the world himself. And that the executive director of the Anshute's Foundation also didn't respond to messages that we left at a phone number and also an email address that were provided by the Ant Schutz Corporation.

Also, for the record, neither the foundation for a better life nor its president, the guy who runs the nonprofit behind all of those pass-it-on ads for sportsmanship and love and learning and so forth, responded to our multiple requests for comment, which also included a detailed list of our questions. But what we found out, thanks to the years of tax returns that Zach Schwartz had pulled, is that these organizations are all, in fact, intertwined. and saving seven figures via tax deductions in the process. In 2021, for instance, the Anshutes Foundation gave a $2.4 million grant for general operating support to the Foundation for a Better Life, whose tax returns, that same year, listed nearly $2 million in production costs for TV commercials and billboards and other ads under the heading of direct charitable activities.

And even more specifically, the promotion of, quote, quality values for all individuals, regardless of their race or religion. It's a line which may now sound familiar. These are universal values that transcends race and religion and politics. All of which is to say that the other thing being passed on here beyond these values is tax benefits. because yes, also the networks and the billboard companies that broadcast these ads, they also get to deduct the, quote, fair market value of that ad slot from their taxes. But what all of this paperwork and uncovering all of this accounting really did for us

was something even more important for the purposes of this episode. Remember, months earlier, Zach had started this whole quest by calling up an ultimately unhelpful secretary. And now he had these documents, documents with all of these details that wound up pushing Zach in what felt like a new direction. In his search for the whole reason, he was here in the first place. So I've got their tax returns in front of me. And there are production company names on some of these tax returns that they've filed. And my process was take the name on the tax return, put it into LinkedIn, take the name on the tax return, put it into Instagram. And in doing that, I found two former employees and just DMed both of them and was like, hey, guys, very odd question here, but I'm trying to find this person.

Can you help me? And one of them got back to me and said, I'd love to help. I wasn't working on that ad campaign or I wasn't there at that time. But I know someone who can help. They've been there for forever. I'd love to connect to you. You know, give me your email. So I get in an email thread at them and they sent me right back to the original secretary.

So at that point, I was sort of embarrassed because I was like, the secretary definitely thinks I'm a weirdo. So it was very much back to square one, huge bummer. Like, really thought I was moving in the right direction. At that particular moment, I was like, I have to go to Twitter and ask them for help for this because I need some sort of closure on this. And part of me not wanting to tweet it was because I was worried someone else would beat me to the story.

To be very fair to you, it is absolutely. a journalist's last resort when they are beating their head against the wall and are like, fine, what does the internet have for me? It killed me. Because I was like, all right, I'll wave the white flag. You remember getting that message being like,

fuck, how did I not have the story idea already? So I put out there, okay, this is an odd request, but can anyone on here help me find this actor from the famous sportsmanship basketball ad? And 29 minutes later, a motion graphic designer for the Las Vegas Golden Knights replied and said, might be former player now current assistant coach at the University of Denver named BJ Porter. I mean, like my hands were shaking when I got that one. I go to the Denver page and I'm looking and I'm like, looks a lot like him, you know, 15, 20 years older.

I'm like, that might be him. And then I go and I click on his Twitter. and he was following me already. She'd been following me the entire time. The answer was actually following you while you were searching for him. And the best part, I reached out, and he agreed to meet up.

By the way, that is perseverance. This was a thrill, Zach. I don't know. It was kind of like the opposite of an episode of Catfish, I guess, on MTV, where it's actually like, hey, this person is who they say they were. But the genuine thrill I felt

from putting you and B.J. Porter, a.k.a. former assistant men's basketball coach at the University of Denver and current athletic director at a private school in Orange County, California, putting you and B.J. Porter slash Alex in the same room at a podcast studio in L.A. where you guys finally got to meet each other in person. What was the moment like when he walked in the door?

I was so happy to finally get to meet him. And levels are all good. Great. All set. He's 35 now. He's got a bit of scruff. You know, maybe you may not necessarily recognize him initially as Alex, but like, got a big, bright smile. Like, truly one of the nicest people you will ever meet. Oh, I want people to know about me. I'm a chill, simple guy.

Yeah. You know. His best friend and best man in his wedding was the guy that I worked with at Arizona State. Wait, what? This is now a little creepy, Zach. Did he know you? Had you ever actually met him before in real life? We hadn't met, but we had been in the same room a couple of times.

So he played basketball at Portland with my friend Luke Sigma. This is of the basketball playing Sycamas. Yes, Jack Sigma's son. Amazing. So when Portland would come to L.A. and play Pepperdine or L.M.U. And their set schedule, my whole family would go to the game. So I was in the stands, BJ was on this team, and I had no idea.

Wally throws down the Oop to BJ Porter. Thanks, man. This is in January of 2009. So, like, memory is a little foggy. This is before I went to Arizona State, which Lord knows did some damage to my brain. But as for the question of how this basketball player becomes the basketball player that we became obsessed with,

how he becomes Alex. How did BJ play? Porter get the worst role in the history of sports commercials. He was a child actor. So I actually started. I used to act. You did? Yes.

So just basically from the age of around 12 when we moved out to Utah. Okay. You know, he talked a bit about kind of having to prioritize hoops over acting, but he has some serious acting credits to his name as a kid. The acting credits that child actor BJ Porter has. as to his name, include. I actually was involved in another kind of like bad basketball scene, double team, you know, with the...

No kidding. Yeah. So it's an extra. There was that. There was an episode of Touched by an Angel with Scott Bayo. Check it out. Mixed drugs all night, plays baseball all day, all-American guy. I actually was a child named Jamal,

and during that time it was kind of like with police brutality. So what basically what wound up happening was, is my mother was at work. I got spooked and I called the police department. They come in and they accidentally shoot me. Oh, God, I shot a kid. Paul, I shot a kid. Call on evidence.

So he's got those roles. He's a senior in high school and it's pre-basket season, which is sort of important for eligibility. And this is pre-NIL. So you obviously can't be paid once you're in your senior season of the sport, you're going to go play in college. My agent reached out, talked to my father and my mother and said, hey, we think this would be a good opportunity for BJ.

We know this is the last one that he would be able to do. And how vivid is BJ's memory now of that day? His memories of the actual shoot were very clear. It was funny the whole entire time. If you watch it, I'm trying basically not to laugh. I was good saying. I'm looking like I'm trying not to laugh because my cousin, who's actually my teammate at the time,

He's the biggest, like, jokester ever. And he's, like, laughing the whole entire time. He's like, hey, Alex, Alex, the whole entire time, like behind the camera a little bit. So it was fun at the same time. It was this wild family affair where, you know, BJ becomes Alex. BJ's cousin is the teammate that kind of like shoulder checks him. How's going, Alex?

Sorry, Coach. All the players in the huddle, basically, the head speaking rules are BJ's teammates from high school basketball. It's like, the guy that's like, it's the championship game. Like, teammates. The guys who very plausibly hated this kid's fucking guts were actually his real-life friends. Friends and teammates and some family.

My dad, they wanted him to do the basketball scene. Oh, so he, they wanted your dad in it. Yes, yes. My dad actually is the coach on the other team who does that. And ironically, his dad sort of has this unique role in the whole shoot where apparently the original script was even worse than this. It was actually supposed to be something worse. I can't remember what it was.

but my dad had to change it a little bit because he was like, a basketball player would never do this. And his dad had to kind of go to the producers and be like, this is how I would try to fix this mess of the thing that you guys have come up with. Wait, it was worse before it became the version we came to know? It was worse, and unfortunately, that original is lost to time.

So this pretty dramatically changes everything if you were to rewatch it now through the lens of what you've reported for us. the haunting decision that forced BJ Porter into hiding, the acting required when it came to him having to give his confession, that in fact he committed the crime, it's him, it was him the entire time, the ball went out of bounds off of Alex. What does he recall?

It's my favorite moment from sitting down with him where he kind of says, the best part is I didn't even touch the ball. I did not touch the ball. You did not touch the ball? So this whole thing is a lot. Yeah, let that be a lesson about the magic of Hollywood. This is all a lie. There were multiple takes to take the hand of using.

He didn't even touch the ball. And it's funny because if you read the YouTube comments, there are people that actually point this out saying, like, he didn't even touch the ball. Yes, he admits he did not touch the ball. So just to be very clear about this, the whole point of his ad is that the ball went out of bounds off of Alex. In the commercial, we don't actually see it going off of the real-life BJ Porter's hands in the scene.

This is the story of this ad in a nutshell, is that, of course, it didn't actually happen the way that everybody thought it did. In the Foundation for Better Life Cinematic Universe, it's pretty perfect. So how long did it take from production and filming to release? When did Alex actually get to see his work? It took about a year and a half. So, like, he went through his football season, his basketball season. He gets to Portland. The first time BJ actually saw the ad, he was watching Law & Order with his teammates on USA Network, as most college athletes do, try to pass the time.

And there it is. I never forget the first time I actually watched it was with my teammates. Then we were sitting there, and it pops up. And I was just like, I kind of was in shock. I was just like, oh. And I was like, it. Like, that's me. And they're like, wait a minute, that is you, right?

And I was like, yeah. And it was just kind of one of those things where he just kind of like laugh. We just laughed it off. Like, it wasn't as big of a deal during that time because it was just like, okay, this was just something. It was just getting started. As somebody who watched a lot of law and order in college with his roommates, did he, the idea that you'd be watching an episode and being a commercial

that would then render you the victim in an internet murder mystery, basically, where you have to go into hiding as a result. You truly cannot script shit. this, Zach. No. No. And like, you'd be so cool to get to be in an ad in college and be like, guys, that's me. But then it's like, the crux of this ad is so tough for him. You know, and like that I can't imagine. Yes. In the sports criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate but equally important groups, the memes and the people who dunk on them. So just to set us in internet time in the history of our cultures, Zach,

was 08. BJ Porter is trying to be a real-life actual college basketball player. And this commercial comes on. And now we're beginning to see the spread, right? I think he probably got his first inkling of it. Portland goes to play at Gonzaga. BJ Porter into the game now for Portland number 24. Guy who brings energy to the pilots.

You know, I mentioned being a basketball sick of myself. There are plenty in the kennel at Gonzaga games. Like those in the best way. die-hard college basketball fans. 3 with a ball, Sikima back door. And free throws coming for B.J. Porter, a sophomore out of Laten, Utah.

And one of the kids in the stands yells, you look like the sportsmanship kid, la la, la. And if you know about Gonzaga, when you go there, especially during that time, it's like that's when Kendall craziness, that's when they have the zombie nation right before you play. And like, we're like there warming up.

And like, all right, and it's like, hey, you look like the sportsmanship kid. Did your heart sink? I kind of did because me and my other teammate Jason Hannibal kind of laughed and Jason's kind of like, he would be like, yeah, that is, but I was like, you better not, you know, so it kind of. So as this is now being noticed in specific instances by these college kids who are also presumably watching Law & Order with their friends in their dorm, when did it feel like virality had come to pass? So he ended up transferring to Weber State, okay, you know, he gets there around 2010.

Yes, the home of Damien Lillard. And there were teammates. They were teammates at We Were Together. And this is sort of where it starts to, like, Twitter introduces this video. And that's kind of where the problems start to arise for our good friend and BJ here. And I just never forget. I walked into the locker room one time with my teammate. And he's just dying laugh.

And he was like, man, they're roasting you. They're going after you. And I was just like, what's going after me? And he showed me the video of it and all the comments. and I was like, wow, like, this really is kind of like, starting to take a turn a little bit. They're dying at the comments on the video, and it's like, Alex, the kid who reminds the teacher

about the homework you forgot to give out. If this was real, he'd be benched for the season. This is why bullying exists. Yeah, I just looked up the comments today, and someone wrote, Sounds like something Drake would do. Damn. Getting roasted unto eternity.

Which is all to say, Zach, that, You found BJ Porter, the guy who played Alex, who played at Weber State, alongside Damien Lillard, and one of the people who remembers vividly, this very true fact pattern happens to be Dame Lillard, who he sent a correspondent to interview in Miami. One day we had class and we was all sitting in the dorms. And I don't remember exactly how the conversation came up, but he came up. We was like, you're the person that was in this commercial. You know, where you said the ball went off you and it came up.

And we stopped calling him BJ and we started calling him Bobby because it was like, man, he was a snitch. You know, like you're in that commercial, and it was a joke from there. We got the vibe while talking to Dame that he didn't co-sign Alex's coat of Otter. I've never been in that situation, but if it came down to it, I'm cheating.

I'm not. That ain't going to be a moment where I show sports machine. And I think that's why he got clowned a lot for it. Even to this day when a commercial come on, I'm telling him, like, my teammates here, like, man, I play with him. in college, you know. So it's like a, that's a forever joke.

When we first started getting on him about it, he was like, man, I know, like, almost like he looked back at it like, man, I would have known it would have turned into this, I probably wouldn't have did it, like that type of vibe. Oh, my God. It's, and that's what's so fun about this ad is that, like, we as people who consume basketball like know this ad, but the people that are like the greatest basketball players playing right now also know this ad. Like, that's how engrossed in the basketball culture it is.

Doing better promotion than Philip Anshutz could ever have dreamed of. And it's, but the whole thing, I mean, truly, like, as B.J. Porter is making his way through college and his basketball journey, as again, he's trying to be a real player. How did he deal with this? How did he deal with the attention that was already obvious to him? He's a very good basketball player. And I think that's the part that's like, that's what's funny with all this, is these people like, I'd give Alex buckets.

I'd cook Alex. And BJ's sitting there like, what would you say to any of those people? Please come try. He was a very good shooter, very good player, you know, plays at Azusa Pacific after his time with Dame at Weber. Can even while there, you know, the coach in film would put his, you know, picture up on the, on the projector and say, you know, nice going Alex and things like that. The ad hung with him. He told me a story when we sat down

that he gets engaged and he's at Disneyland and at some point they were at ESPN zone with his family and they look up and there's the ad all these years later playing on the TV at ESPN zone. He's trying to start a family and meanwhile Alex is still watching him. Even that day, the ride operator sneaks up to him and whispers,

I was, hey, I touched it. I was like, what do you mean? I kind of looked at him. And he goes, he goes, I touched the ball, coach. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. And I was just like, all right, you're a funny guy. At a certain point, it must be the case that his own kids, now that he's like a grown man also are pointing this out to him.

His kids have seen the ad, the friend that I know that's their godfather, who's a coach in college actually right now, showed them the ad. took out his son and said, hey, you got to see what your dad did. Let me show you this thing. Your dad was a star and played it for him. So my daughter at the whole entire time is like, Daddy, you're in a commercial. Daddy, you touched the ball. Daddy.

And my son's like, Daddy, like, why did they call you Alex? I'm just like, son. All wishes to say that he could not escape this at home at the happiest place on earth. In any locker rooms on the internet? Yeah. Is enough to make someone become a recluse, truly. He deactivated his accounts on all social media at one point because he went into coaching.

That's such a necessary tool for recruiting that his coach at Denver was like, hey, you have to reactivate your social accounts to reach out to kids. Right. So he kind of got forced back into this place where it's constantly being brought up. Right, which brings him back to you, following you. And just to complete. the circle here, like the beautiful part of this story to me, the symmetrical part of the story, is that B.J. Porter became a real-life basketball coach. Yeah. He became the other person in the

commercial that haunts him. And I guess my question near the end here is, how does coach B.J. Porter, how did he view Alex? How would he handle a kid who did what he? He did. He would, himself did in this ad that he can never escape. He, you know, grin, said to me, you know, thank you for your honesty. And there's a reason why they have

rests and reps are supposed to do their job. So whatever the rest, let them decide. It's like such a perfect sort of summary on the whole ad and kind of his outlook on life in general. Yes. I asked him like, hey, if you were going against Alex, what would the scouting report be? Yeah, what's Alex's scatterer report?

Be physical. Knock him around. He'll lose you the game. What I feel like I found out, Zach, what I found out, thanks to your reporting today, is what actual sportsmanship in the age of the internet actually looks like, which is far more vivid now,

thanks to BJ Porter, the embodiment of that principle online, than it was in the ad he started that literally had the word sportsmanship in big letters trying to drill into us, you know, value. dot com. Totally. I mean,

his whole outlook on it, even asking him, like, would you, do you regret doing it? Like, if you could go back in time, would you still do the ad? And he's like,

yeah. It's a part of who I am. Like, you know what I mean? I'm Alex, you know? It's like an alter ego. So it is awesome.

So that's what I'll say too. It was very special to have him sitting across the table for me and lean into the microphone and say, I am Alex. It's so rare to have a story about a child star. who gets eaten by Twitter

and comes out on the other side being like, I think I'm better for this. Totally. He's a very profound and awesome dude. I was very glad to have gotten to know him and find him. Zach Schwartz, you're now free from a journalistic prison of your own devising, and all I can do now is shoulder check you off of my show

and tell you earnestly. Nice going, Zach. Really nice going. It was an honor. Thank you. This has been Pablo Torre finds out a Metal Arc Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.