Pablo Torre Finds Out - Who the F*** Is Wayne Federman?

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

He is literally That Guy from "Knocked Up," "Step Brothers," "The Larry Sanders Show" and, of course, "Curb Your Enthusiasm." But he's also a professor of stand-up, and his multiverse contains multitudes: Larry David's breaking point (and unaired film for Apple); Gary Shandling's secret pickup basketball game (with Bob Costas and David Duchovny); and the cinematic life (and death) of Pistol Pete Maravich. He may never have become the Newman of "Curb," but stay close to The Theory of Federman, and you might just learn the meaning of genius. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is. I don't know if you know an optometrist. I don't know. No, I don't know any optometrist. Well, I didn't think it is. So in that case, that's why I'm invoicing you. Okay, you send me the invoice.

I'm going to rip it up into tiny little pieces, and I might even pee on it. Right after this ad. I just have to say, like, the way we met each other is one of the most bizarre meekutes that my audience is already exhausted by, because I talk about. about the thing we were at way too much. You've already talked about it? No, not, not. You are the big reveal.

Oh, okay. Like the big payoff of going to the fancy ceremony we were at in Los Angeles. Yep. And I can't say it because I've been actually told by my producers, stop talking about how you were at this thing. Yeah. Oh, we don't have to talk about the thing. We can just talk about the meeting as if it was without the environment with the end.

Well, I just feel like it's hard because part of the legend of you, it was sort of like through a gradual osmosis. As I look, you came up to me. Yeah. And I know who you are. So it's not like, but I had a, I had what can only be described as the Wayne Federman experience, which is I locked eyes with you.

Yeah. With a latent familiarity that I could not place. Welcome. Welcome to my world. But over and over again, these luminous, He's like at one point like Fred Armisen interrupted our conversation. Yeah, that happened. And said, Wayne Federman.

And I was like, who the fuck is Wayne Federman? I didn't say that, but I was thinking it now that I can reveal that to you. Yeah, that's a great way to describe me. Who the fuck is Wayne Federman? So I just got to point out that I do feel confident declaring something about that existential question that Wayne Federman has just articulated for us, which is that you, like me, have actually seen this guy before.

I have seen all of Kirby enthusiasm. You have? I have. How many times? At least once, the full thing. Even though it lasted decades, there was only 12 seasons. I believe that's right. Just so you know, I kind of like to live in the analog world a little bit.

Which is another way of saying that Wayne Federman is both a part of comedy history and also one of its most acclaimed historians. And this is beyond the stuff he's done with Larry David, and also beyond any of the 95 acting credits on one of the most amusing pages that I've ever seen on IMDB.com.

Wayne has won an Emmy for producing a documentary about the life of George Carlin for HBO. He is working right now on a doc about Norm MacDonald. He also used to be a ventriloquist and a monologue writer at one point for Bob Newhart as well as Jimmy Fallon.

And also, in general, he's the type of person who was at Eddie Murphy's 21st birthday party at Studio 54. And the reason I was there is because I was starting to do stand-up comedy. And my main club was the comic strip. And Eddie Murphy's manager was the guy, Richie, who ran the comic strip. So it was like, do you want to come to this party? It was like, yeah. And so, yeah. I treasure the point of view of a guy like Wayne Federman,

somebody who keeps finding himself in these rooms that I personally have always wanted to find out about. Even if the entire reason that Wayne and I started talking is that he is a hugely curious sports fan with a particular passion project, which we'll get to, who mostly wanted to talk to me about this room. Like, the room we are in right now. These gentlemen over here behind the glass, do they fact check what you're saying in real time? Do they signal you? They tend to shame me in my ear.

What happens over there? They're laughing at how often they sometimes have to do that, and I don't credit them at all. Because I, this is just omniscience. I am aware of all of your credits, which is, by the way, a list that I don't have enough time to actually recite. We don't have to do that. But the way that you are that guy. Mm-hmm. This is not an abstract description.

A lot of your credits have the word guy in them. Thank you for diminishing the whole thing. I like it. No question, no question. But, you know, I saw Legally Blonde. You did? Of course. Yeah.

And I just have to say, thank you for being in my studio, Admissions Guy. She also designed a line of faux-fur panties for her sorority's charity project. Uh-huh. She's a friend to the animals as well as a philanthropist. Elle Woods. Welcome to Harvard. Well, like I'd like to say, I know it's a small part. But if Elle Woods doesn't get into Harvard, as I've said many times, there's a movie.

So that movie is about me. By the way, that is maybe of the movies I've done, even though I've done many. I feel like that movie has the deepest social impact, even more than Knocked Up or Stepbrothers. Well, I was going to say even more than your turn as fantasy baseball guy in Knocked Up. Guy, let's emphasize Guy, please. Delgado, excellent choice. Too bad I got him three rounds ago. Still on the clock. Oh, shit.

You got to do something. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Hideki Matsui. Just took my whole hour. Sorry, Charlie. What is this? Debbie. What the fuck is this? It's our fantasy baseball draft.

We said no wives. Your fantasy what? It's our draft. The fantasy baseball. I told you all about this. Got Matsui. But fantasy baseball guy is a key character because, look, for those not familiar, Leslie Mann suspects Paul Rudd is cheating on her.

Correct. Only to discover that he's been, you know, hiding away at his fantasy baseball draft. Right. And they're in front of the whiteboard in a role that I can only assume you had prior experience with. There is Wayne Federman holding the stopwatch, running the draft. And here's the thing you should know about me. Paul Rudd was an expert at this.

I am not. I'm not really a baseball guy. So that's how good actor I am. Did it look like I knew what I was doing? You were authoritative. Yeah, yeah. And also pathetic in the way. that any good fantasy baseball draft

would inspire to be. As you know who was also sitting right there next to Paul Rudd, director Paul Figue, it's a Paul Paul situation. Who I used to do stand-up with. I mean, you're, the way... I'm a bridge to another time. I should clarify that when you reference

stand-up and comedy, you are also famed, and this is not even me kissing your ass. It's like objectively true. You're a professor of stand-up comedy at USC. Correct. But really what I teach there is the history of stand-up comedy, because I do teach a class, an advanced class in it. But you can't teach anyone to be funny. So it's sort of a rip-off for those students. Well, you're also the author of the history of stand-up comedy. Yes, yeah, yeah. And as well as, again, yet more things, which I guess we'll just unfurl as we go.

Yeah. Is it too much for you? No, it's just, I have a text file on my computer that resembles my attempt at organizing. your life. Okay. And I haven't even gotten into the fact that you're also blind man. Oh, yeah. In stepbrothers. Rough drive. Hey, Robert. What's all the commotion? Hey, hey, Don. Is that your wife, Nancy? Right here, Don. Can I come over this afternoon and touch your face?

Sure. Thanks. Good luck, guys. We see you, Don. Let's go. Cinnamon. Heal cinnamon. Heel cinnamon. One of the greatest roles. The greatest Fetterman and outs. No question. So the Federman and out. Yes, please explain. What happened?

I kept appearing in these movies, not so much on television, but in just one scene, legally blonde as admissions guy, blind guy and stepbrothers. And then I was like, okay, this is now a thing where no one wants to see me more than once.

Or as I say it, I'm probably just too brilliant, not in my acting, just like on screen, it's just too much for people to handle. Overwhelming. Overwhelming, overwhelming. So, I mean, In one scene, I do something funny and I leave, and I just self-branded at the Federman and

out. Again, nobody really knows about it, but I just think it's funny to say. I mean, in 51st days, 40-year-old virgin, and it's just the movies with numbers in them, I guess, as I keep on going here. You're funny. But you're also, by the way, this is the other part. One of my favorite shows ever is community. It is?

Yes. Have you seen the full? Of course. Even on Yahoo. That's the season I was on. Can I ask you a question? Please. Just to turn around a little bit.

Like, when I went to Yahoo, as a community fan, how did it feel? It took me years to get to. I'm not going to lie. Right. Why would you start lying? Well, because I just... Why would you even say you would... Because I am a journalist, Wayne.

That's the difference between me and the other people you've appeared on podcast with. Okay, okay. I'm here with an obligation to tell the truth. Yeah? And despite loving community... Loving it. Loving it. So, yeah, that's really what I wanted...

You're confused by how much I love a show that you're were a pivotal in the end. No, of course. Before we get to that, I just, I be just, this is new in television, where a television show is

da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And then right at the end goes to a whole different section of the broadcast. Yeah, the broadcast world. Yeah. And you resisted it. It took a while because, tell me why. Because I,

to, to, to, to, to describe my frustration and my awe of how media works now, there are just a zillion. things. And once you're out of my point of view, I unfortunately might love you, but I will forget you. Okay. Which I think brings us back to you because you have often been literally in my line of sight. Yeah. And you keep on coming back to the point that you are like the final, you play, the role you play in community, by the way, in the finale, in the series finale, yes. Is that of father? Not guy. Not, this is a big. This is a big. This is a big jump for me.

The evolutionary development. I couldn't sleep the night before. I was like, I'm not a guy? Who am I, a father? Okay, okay. Let me work on this character. Sorry, Dad. Guess I win.

You stupid child. Nobody's winning anything. Don't you see? This means we don't exist. We're not created by God. Created by a joke. We were never born, and we will never actually live.

I think you have, the most expansive social network of anybody in comedy. Genuinely, at this point. I mean, by the way, take it on face value. I like that you're yelling. I love it. Wayne? When it comes to the theory of you.

Yeah, the theory of Federman. It is a node. And into that node is, I think, literally everybody in Hollywood. There is a lot. Do I give you credit for that? Is this by design? The fact that you are, in fact... No, I'm just...

literally one gig at a time. You're like a multiversal character. You, like, show up in the cinematic universes of all of these separate parallel worlds. And the only unifying thing is kind of you. I've been just inhaling all of these cameos, appearances, Reddit threads. By the way, there's a Reddit thread that asks,

and again, incurb your enthusiasm. I have to catch people up. You play a character by the name of. Dean Weinstock. Not guy. Again, in movies, I'm a little more in television, I have a little more of a part than I do in film. Go ahead.

But the question posed in the subject of this Reddit thread is, quote, is Dean the biggest douche ever on the show, two question marks. I love it. I love it. Well, you've watched the show, all on Home Box Office, I assume. That's right. Yeah?

Hard to argue. Hard to argue. You are such a douche that they summoned you. I believe this is doing the math here. You first appeared in episode six of season one. Correct. The economy of duchness. Thank you.

You show up as a lawyer. And immediately you're like, I hate this f*** guy. Hi, Gene. I'm Larry. Hi, Phyllis. Hello, hi, hi, Phyllis. I'm finally in the house that Jerry Seinfeld built. With his own hands. And some hammers.

He actually worked on it like Jimmy Carter. How did you get that role? Well, I knew Larry from standup. I knew him right, right. Standup was like high school. Like you're a freshman, they're senior, so you don't really hang out that much. But so I would introduce him at the comic strip

we had spoken about that earlier. And it was always the same. Anyone who worked with Larry was the same. He was notorious for cutting his sets short if it wasn't going well. So I would enjoy, here he is from Fridays, Larry David, he would come up, and then he would shake your hand and go, stay close. You know, and it means don't go out of the room and wait for the 10 minutes or the 12 minutes. In case he wants to bail?

100%. That was his move. That was his move. And so I knew him from then. And then, you know, all those years, by the way, I know you think I'm in the universe of everything. but I thought for sure 100% I was going to show up on Seinfeld and so much. A hundred percent. That's how confident I was.

And, you know, God laughs. I don't know if you know the expression. Yes, he's making a plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it never happened. I was like, damn. Never. And I knew Jerry, the whole him.

Yeah, right. You came up in stand-up as a... Jerry was a little above, but we had done the first Aspen comedy festival together. So again, the disappointments. I know you're doing the highlights, but there's also, along the way,

there has been numerous, like, okay, this is not quite what I had hoped for. And so when that show started, I had seen the hour special, so I sort of knew the vibe of it. And I auditioned, believe it or not, for the blind guy later that I got in Stepbrothers, as you know, you had just mentioned.

But there's this blind character who, like, boss is also a douchebag, right? I didn't get it. And then I was like, is this going to be another Seinfeld situation for me? And then the next one was like, when you auditioned,

all that they said was, gave you a piece of baby, you're the biggest fan of Julia Louis Dreyf. That's all they said. And then you went in, Larry was there, and you just improved the whole thing. Right.

So it's just so I understand because, again, just the mechanics of curb, which is famously improvisational. Yes. The premise is set, meaning Larry has a wire running across his backyard that he and Cheryl hate. Yeah, yeah.

All of this is written. Yes. All of that, the beats of the story are written. You know this. Right. And so the lawyer that they summon, who is you, their neighbor, who needs to basically sign off on the burial of the wire. Right.

For the neighborhood. For the neighbor, exactly. Yeah. That is set. But in terms of how you do you, how you fetterman and out, that was a surprise to everybody. I found this. Thank you. Thank you.

Does that look familiar at all to you? Is that? Yeah, where'd you get this? It was in my house. It was under a cushion by the chair. I was just wondering if that was yours. Yeah. I didn't know.

Thank you. There's a reward involved with that. Just look right in the front part. It says $500 to the person who returns just to L. David. I put two and two together and thought the L stood for Larry. Here was my strategy, very simple, was because I am a very, very, nice effusive guy like that's my thing since i was a kid but i was like okay i immediately got okay that i wanted to under the guise of being nice be the worst possible human being so every time i say

it it's like in a friendly way like oh this has to be yeah we got to get this taken care of like not in any aggressor the most passive aggressor i think is the term it's always been a dream of mine to meet Julie and Louis drives us and just meet her in person. And if you could just make a phone call, make that happen. That would be so great. You know what? I'm more than happy to call her up. I can't guarantee.

So it's so hard to get anything absolutely guaranteed. Exactly. When it gets to be buried, you don't know if it's guaranteed or either. No, no. You don't even know if that's impossible. Because there's a lot of papers to be signed. I agree with you there. But after I did that episode.

Yeah. And it went so well. It was sent out as a nominee for an Emmy Award. So they, not only I liked what I did, but they liked what I did. And they were like, oh, this is set. You're going to be the neighbor. Larry loves, you know, like these running characters. It's going to be, you're like Newman or something like that.

Someone's cooking. Hello, Jerry. Hello, Newman. Next season they moved for a number of reasons, and that was it. Yes, right. They changed houses. Yes. So I know it's just a funny thing for you, but it was crushing for me.

Right. Because I was like, okay, this is going to be a fun role. So were you surprised when you were brought back now 56 episodes later. I love the math. Thanks, guys. Thanks, guys. Episode 62 titled Vehicular Fallatio. Yes.

And Dean Winstock is back. Larry? Larry David. Dean, Dean Winstock. Oh my God. Yeah, he's gonna be your next-door neighbor. Yeah. Hey, man.

It is so good to see you. Hey. Hey. Hey. Whoa. Oh, Christ. Oh, my God. These are broken. Thank you.

Thank you. But when they bring you back, I mean, years later. This is now over 10 years later, right? And it's almost, yes, and it's almost like an inside joke, if you remember. Because part of the premise of this is Larry re-en counters

Dean Winstock and the interaction is so fucking good in terms of two people who, again, who kind of, the through line of this whole episode so far

is what happens when you meet someone that you kind of remember but aren't sure exactly who it is? And the way you handle it ends up being passive-aggressive to the point of, like, driving Larry David insane. That is just so good to see you, man. Good to see you.

Good to see you. That's great. She, I'm sorry about your glasses here. Don't worry about it. I'll send you a bill. Tell me, how's Cheryl? Where'd you guys move to? You what?

You'll send me a bill? Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are... I don't think these can be fixed. Wait a second. Yeah. Same strategy. The only thing was, was like,

I was trying to figure out how am I going to justify once these glazed. That's all it was like, we're going to hug, the glass are going to break, and you're going to ask me to pay for them. That's all I said. So I'm thinking, how am I going to make this just seem in any way reasonable

in the real world to anyone? So that's what I was, and I came up with like an angle on it. Like, oh, okay, okay, he just needs to replace the glasses instead of pay for it or that. So I went up to him before the thing. I go, I think I have, and he's like, no, no, no, don't tell me anything.

I don't want to know. We'll do it on camera. And it just, I haven't really ever said this, but he was laughing so much during that scene. Every time I would just do the, no, it's no big deal. You just replace, you know, just the casualness of. Almost like the bloodless attempt to just coerce you to give you money. Even if I did initiate the hug, which I didn't.

Yeah. That still doesn't make me responsible for your glasses. They're your glasses. They're around your neck. With all due respect, I feel like you didn't recognize me. Then I did the hay. Then I did the shake. And then you came in and because you were so embarrassed and so mortified

that you did not recognize me, you overcompensated by a super strong hug to broke my glasses. That's an incredibly idiotic theory. I think because you're a needy person, you wanted me to like you. So you hugged me. I'm not a needy person. Okay, that's number one. I have no needs at all.

Okay. I do know there are some people that have not gone deep dive that are like, they break it down frame by frame, who reached out, who started, who initiated, who instigated or initiated. Those are close words, but not exactly synonymous. So it was, you know, it was a little, there is a little bit of a...

Yeah, how devious is Dean Weinstock? It's a subtext here. Right. Was that intentional? Did he fall down in front of a car? First of all, who has glasses around their neck? The whole thing was... But the whole thing of the building to the...

What am I, a librarian? Who wears the clay? Come on. The whole thing of you navigating the traffic of human interaction only to reveal, oh, by the way. I don't know if you know an optometrist. I don't know. No, I don't know any optometrist. Well, I didn't think it is.

So in that case, that's why I'm invoicing you. Okay, you send me the invoice. I'm going to rip it up into tiny little pieces, and I might even pee on it. Why are we fighting here? We're fighting because you're a moron. That's why we're fighting. You know I have cancer, right? You know that's why I'm here.

I don't want to have a fight with you. In fact, my doctor said Did not have any fights at all. Boom, the cancer card. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just like, that was him, that was him. That was, that was the only thing. You were driving towards that payoff.

And it's been, I would love one day, maybe, if anyone's listening, to find the outtakes it, because he was really... Oh, I was going to ask, how often does he break? He breaks a lot. He has a little bit of a, what we call a comedic glass jaw. Look, regardless of how often he laughs, I have to imagine that making that guy in specific laugh

has to be like a glorious feeling for someone who wants to make others laugh. Like, Larry David laughing. I mean, I'm literally getting emotional. You say, yeah, he's a genius. It was like, yeah, I couldn't. Yeah, it was for sure a career highlight. Yeah.

Now, do you know about Larry and I's, you know, the character came back once more? Ooh. No, this invaded my research. Well, this is, uh, I don't know if I'm... All right. I think I can tell...

Because it's out. Apple... Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Hired Larry to do an in-house episode where he was the guy who approved apps. It's basically... Okay? Okay.

Apple hired Larry David to make a bar mitzvah video for them for you could imagine the amount of money. Okay, you can imagine the amount of money. And then... Secret... Never aired because I don't know why. Internal use only. Oh, yes.

This is for WWDC, which is the Worldwide Developers Conference. So I don't know if you know this, because it keeps popping up and then get taken down immediately. My favorite genre of Internet artifact is this kind. It is? It is.

It's a bit of a snow leopard. It just like appears, disappears, reappears. But yes, he's an app reviewer. Yes. Okay, so please take us into the plot. I'm allowed to talk about it because I signed something. I signed an NDA.

Apple doesn't have a lot of money. They're not going to. They don't have a legal budget. Right, right. So I'm, yeah. So I've signed, right now I'm breaking, whatever that is. I'm disclosing. Yeah.

So that's, so in that one, Dean, he's going in and I'm drafting behind him because I left my pass key, which just happened to you, at home. Yeah. What are you doing? Telegetting? I just need to get in. Do you work here? Yeah, I've been working here for eight years. Where's your tag?

That's the thing I left here at home. Yeah, well, I don't know. Just keep walking. We're gonna go in together. You're trying to coast on my security week? It doesn't matter. If the situation were reversed, I do this for you. It's a situation reverse, yeah.

Or was reversed. I don't know if it's were or was reversed. I would say were. Yeah. My point is, if the situation were reversed, I'd do it for you. That's all. But you know what? You can't reverse situations.

Situations, only Superman can reverse a situation. by spending around the world and making go the other way, okay? And you're not Superman, and even if you were, you don't have an ID. And you couldn't prove it. So you couldn't even prove your Superman. It's the rules. You just follow the rule. Yes, yes, I do.

Yeah, like Germany. Exactly. And that worked out well. Well, they were very well organized. And then at the end, of course, he leaves his and he's behind me. You don't have your... I would be happy to let you end, seriously. But I learned this morning that situations don't reverse themselves.

This reverse. It's unprecedented. It's an unprecedented reversal situation. That gentleman will help you. I usually would. I don't like rules. Just sidebar, what are they... What happens if you break a nondisclose?

Can you get sued? Like, what is... I mean, obviously, I'm not worried about it. But just in general, what is the thing? We're going to have my producers just check on that as we proceed. Let's proceed. Something that was a lot easier to obtain. And again, so during the pandemic, this is, again, just the way in which you have seeped into my, the crevices of my brain.

During the pandemic, I got into the Larry Sanders show. Oh, my God. For the first time, I'd never seen it, knew it as like your favorite comedian's favorite comedy. Right. And can I ask how old you are? I am 39. Oh, you seem more youthful than that. Thank you.

I think it's just... What happens? It's just Asian skin. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's right. And your mom. Yeah. If dermatologist.

Yeah. Okay. Do you do... Botox? No, but do you do a regimen? My mom has yelled at me for 39 years that I should do regimen. And I'm like, Mom, I got natural oils. Come on.

I'm good. So I'm just doing the math. Back to Larry Sanders. Allow me to be the nine zillionth person to say, oh, that shows good. But you appear in a key episode. Yes, I do. Again, you have this capacity to just, like, wind up at these pimples. moments in these series is.

And it's season six, episode six. Yep, six, yep. And do you remember your character's name? Sure. I mean, what are you talking about? That's Stan Sanders, the brother of Larry Sanders. Okay. Stan.

Thank God, it's great to see you. Hey, it's been too long. Great to see you. Come on in. Thanks for the limousine. Are you kidding? Great. Now, I shouldn't tip that guy, right?

No, I... completely took care of that. You don't have to worry. Oh, great. Is this an original? Don't touch that. Just come in. Never before a scene.

Never before really spoken about. There's an earlier episode where Colin Quinn, I'm sure you know that comedian, plays like the son of Rip Torn's character or the nephew or something like that. So it was like, I think that worked so well. They were like, okay, what if, you know, we'd learn a little about this megalomania's life. you know, a little and how that would turn out? Yeah, what if his brother was, again,

just like, cravenly a schemer? Right, have no sentimentality whatsoever. Zero. Show us up. Same kind of thing, friendly guy. Like going through baseball cards at a simulation of their childhood

only to pitch only to pitch Gary Shandling, Larry Sanders, on a quote-unquote legitimate business venture that involves... Barry? My friend. Which guys have? He's the guy that can get his hands on these diamonds.

They're uncut. Oh. He brings him over from South Africa. It's $7 million. As soon as they come over, it's $25 million. Everything's included. It's certified. That's something.

Yeah. And also what to do for his final episode. Which is a pay-per-view. A pay-per-view finale. Yeah. Remember Carson's last show? Last show, the big last show. Yeah.

How many people do you think tuned in for that? How many viewers? We're in the business. I don't know. 20 million. 20 million. That sounds right. Yeah.

Well, that's why Carson's an idiot. Because if he'd just done a pay-per-view with $39 a pop, he would have made $800 million one night. That's before video or anything. Idiot. Just... Which is actually, like, ahead of its time. When it comes to the future of media,

John Skipper, former Eastern President, who does this show often. He often talks about how the Super Bowl one day should just go pay-per-view. Oh, right. And so you kind of presaged the premise of just like, hey, there's a finale.

You should drain every scent out of the American public. By the way, the people that created a hit show that's on right now called the studio. Yeah. The two guys that wrote my episode are the guys that created the studio.

Were they responsible for Adolf Hankler? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, by the way, the fact that that's the undercar. in this conversation. No, even better than Adolf Hankler,

which is insane. Which is like, insane comedy. So, briefly, John Stewart is filling in. So Gary Chandling, Larry Sanders is nearing the end of his run as the host of Larry Sanders show. John Stewart is filling in for him

in this, like, changing of the guard. Yeah. And one of the first things he does is he has Hank. Yep. Jeffrey Tambor. The great Jeffrey Tambor. Yep.

The sidekick. Dress and just be. Hitler. In a game show, a fake game show. In a fake game show. You won the coin toss backstage. Pick the first category. I'll take 20th century,

Adolf. Good. Because of the sinking of the Titanic. What is an iceberg? No, I'm sorry. The correct response is, what were the Jews? Sometimes you see a time capsule in television

where you're like, how have you not heard about this? until now. And that episode was so saturated with just like all of this happened. This was the season, again, the last season of the show. Right? And it's just one of the greatest episodes of Calvin. Yes.

Yes, he's there. He walks out as a representative of the ADL, I believe he is. He's a celebrity. You're good. You're good. No, but it all of it just to say that, Gary Shanling, for you, I mean, this is my way of finally winding around to the fact that part of the reason that we got along when we first met, is because you're an actual, like, basketball fan.

You're a huge sports fan, but basketball in particular. Yes. Yes. You are, unfortunately, for the time constraints of this episode. Yeah. Maybe Hollywood's foremost expert on Pistol Pete Marevich. Well, there's a number of people have written books on Pete Marevich. But Hollywood, I just feel like it's weird that you're...

Like, I love passion projects. One of your passion projects was... No question. To tell the, I guess, cinematically adapted story of Pete Marevich. I've always wanted to do a movie about his life because I thought it was Shakespeare in basketball. Like, that's the story of Pete Marevich, in my opinion. Like, just crazy, tragic. And you know, all the beats do it.

And so. But for those who don't, I mean, like, what's the log line of the Pete Marevich story? Well, it's a kid who with a father who was a basketball coach, dedicates his childhood to become the greatest basketball player of all time by practicing, obsessively, eight hours a day alone, whatever that skill is. And then becomes just through luck and his absolute dedication to this becomes this not only incredible basketball player, but a showman. Yes.

Like becomes a Harlem Globetrotter playing in a real basketball game. One of the most creative players in the history of sports athletes, period, in any sport. Right, right. before the game would start during the national anthem he'd look up at the flag and then he'd look over to the scoreboard and it's showtime. But he's not happy playing in the NBA.

I forget the college stuff where he averaged 44 points. He's the all-time scoring leader in NCAA history. Right. And so then he goes to the pro not happy in the pros. Says very early on like as soon as I win a championship, I want to get out of it. This is not as fun as I thought it was going to be. and then has a very star-cross career, becomes all pro, does great, but doesn't get to chip, as they say, as they like to say.

Have you ever seen, I assume you have. Yeah, tell me. One of the all-time great videos is the Pete Marevich Instructional. Ball handling and spinning. That's what we're going to go over today. And you know, there's basic fundamentals of ball handling, and there's also creative fundamentals. And that's what I'm going to show you today.

The basic fundamentals, the creative fundamentals. You can have a lot of fun doing these drills. I write about it in the book extensively. It's done within eight months of his death. Is that right? Yes. It's done in 87. He dies in January 88.

It's so amazing to watch because it's like a magician telling you, this is how I do my tricks. And a lot of the tricks involve like snapping your wrists in ways that I didn't know were physically possible. Yeah. That's a quote from Red Hourback that Pete breaks the rules of, breaks the rules of physics. All of a sudden, you're coming down like this,

and all of a sudden you take that ball, and you go right here, and you go, and the ball goes on the other side. It's amazing. And what happens? You know what's happened? The guy there is going to eat air. You ever seen a guy eat air? That's what happened on that path.

Called the wrist path, right here, straight over. It's very deceptive. How do you throw it? You lock your arms completely out. You lock your arms completely out, and it's all wrist. It's just wrist. It's wrist. And then they gradually, like, incrementally get harder and hard.

So they get to the point where no one can do it unless you spend hours and hours alone. And he does it like, do it. It's fun. Like, no, Pete, we can't do it. You can do it. So do it. It's fun. So he was just oblivious to how difficulties things were.

But I guess because he mastered them, he figured, oh, any kid can. not even thinking that maybe he was gifted in some way. So he was just beautiful. Yeah, those tapes are incredible. Oh, but you're describing something that I am eternally intrigued by, which is like, what does genius actually entail? Yeah. And there is effectively this ineffable, irreproducible aspect of like,

you can try to copy. You can grind as much instructional videotape by Pete Marevich. as you want, but you can't be one of the truly, tragically youngest players ever inducted in the Neesmith Memorial basketball thing. Correct, correct, correct. Because he dies at, how old was he? He's 40. I mean, just like, again, speaking of my preemptive horror about my own existentialism. Right. You're right on the cusp. That's fucking wild. Yeah. Like, again, there are examples of athletes dying young, but the movie version of this man's life in which he dies during a pickup game. Yeah.

In 1988, because he has a... Right, yeah, in California, right over there, right across the country. And it's because, I mean, I guess this is not the medical term, but it is a broken heart. He has this undetected heart defect. When they did an autopsy to find out why he collapsed on his basketball court, they found out that he was missing his right coronary artery, born with it that way. A defective heart, basically half his heart wouldn't bump. And it's almost stunning because...

was here's a guy that ran his whole life. Unlike Secretariat, who, when they opened up his heart, he had an enlarged heart. His heart was bigger. He basically had a bigger engine than the horses he was running against. Pete had a smaller heart, but stronger in some ways. So there's this magical part of his career that's now, and because he had become a Christian

and was proselytizing and sharing his testimony, very much for the last six years of his life. He has this aura about him beyond the basketball. And he said, and it's weird, you know, I love the guy so much. He said, if I'm only known for being a basketball guy, I would feel like that wasn't a success for him. Like, there was more to life. They're that.

And unfortunately, most people, that's how they know the guy. So it's beyond cinematic. and the year he leaves, the very next year the team he left wins the championship. Sure. How about that? Yeah. Pablo. How about finding out about that?

Well, what I want to find out is who would you have cast as Pete Merritt-Rex? Oh, I don't know. It would have to be, so that would be the tricky part. You need a guy who can actually plausibly. Yeah. That's a good question because it kept changing. You know who wanted to do it when the book came out? Who?

Sidacus. I kind of love that. Yeah. He's a lefty, though. Yeah, right. We could fix it. We could fix it. He claims, Sadecas claims to be an above 90% lifetime free throw shooter. Yeah, he's very good. I've played with him.

So I want to get to, so this is the segue from, I wish that Sudecas would have been Pete Marevich in this hypothetical movie that never got made to the legendary pickup runs that I actually always needed to ask you about, which also bring us back to Gary Fanling. Oh, the Sunday game? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was just Gary took a, again, Pablo, Gary liked me for some crazy reason. He just thought it was funny.

I don't know if it's, you know, I'm from Florida. He's from Arizona. You know what I mean? We're not like New York, L.A., Rich Kid, anything like that. So I'm just guessing. And he ran a Sunday game at his house to feel like, I don't know, just part of something outside of show business. And I not only was in the game for 20 years,

but became the unofficial commissioner of that game. Okay, so I'm binding on a lot now. Yeah. Please explain for people who don't know what this is. It's a half-court game. It's at his house. He had this beautiful house that, by the way, recently just torn down, that he had built, if you ever see,

there's a documentary, a co-produced, didn't produce. called The Zen Diaries of Gary Shanley. And we get into this, how important this game was to him. And so it started with, you know, friends, but it's also, you know, he knows everyone. So it's, you know, one time Bob Costas plays. It's one time Brad Pitt plays. I need scouting reports on all of these names as you mentioned them. Do you remember anything about Bob Costas and or Brad Pitt?

I remember by Costas because he was on my team. It's three on three, three on three. He would play like to seven. Half court. Yeah, half court. no three, no three-pointers. And I, Kastis was good, but he was always trying to make me go down to post up because I am six-still, which makes sense. You're running a high-low.

He wanted me to run. And I don't have, my, here's my motto when it comes to basketball, which is the opposite of David Dukovny's motto. He's good things happen in the paint. I'm bad things happen in the paint. So I'm like a guard A guard trapped in a forward's body Like I like to shoot from the outside Crash the boards a little bit play defense

I don't want to be banging down low But that's what Costas wanted me to do And he kept yelling him He was very frustrated It's like again He's a great guy I like Bob Costas eloquently yelling at you in my mind He was like not having it

He was not I was like Why aren't you posting up I was like because I can't do this That's why? Because I can't... Because Adam McKay is pushing me out. I can't do this. If you were to, like, power rank,

who's the best player when it comes to the legendary Gary Shand? David Accomney. Dave... Dave played it, uh, Princeton his freshman year? Yes. Played as a... I'm not real good.

Oh! You didn't have that against your eye, did you? I was trying to be really careful. Okay, so now you guys tell me, so actually you guys... No hesitation. Of the celebrities, David Dicubney. Yeah, he had an outside shot. This is his game.

Everything. Outside, inside, and hands. You know, people are just good around the rim. Either hand had really nice touch inside. Good pump fakes. Just friendly. Was this X-File? Yeah. Yeah. So is this how you became, I mean, again, by the way, in the role you were literally

born to play, Wayne Federman at one point finally got to be Wayne Federman. You can answer your phone? Me? Yeah. I didn't want to be rude. So who hell is this guy? Hello? This is Wayne Federman. He's an old buddy of mine from college. He's a writer out in Hollywood now, and he's working on an FBI-based movie. He's asked me to give him a Mackey. Let's go. Screenwriter? It's actually a writer slash producer. That's actually just a hindrance slash pan in the neck. Go, go, go. Agent Mulder. I don't want to eat your lunch. I'm just here for some procedural flavor, just to taste.

The premise of that is that you are shadowing. Yes. Mulder and Scully. Right. And Gary was in the episode. And Shandling plays Fox Mulder slash David Coveney in the cinematic adaptation. It's as mad as you can get. But for that role. Yeah. Did that come out of the pickup game? It was right before the pickup game. Dukovny knew me from stand-up because he's a stand-up junkie, whatever. And so he knew my act and stuff like that.

And then wrote the part with me and mine. He wrote and directed that episode. As Wayne Fetterman, the character name. And this is a little, he wrote it, faxed it to me. Literally with the rolly paper. Do you have any idea what I'm talking about it? We did an episode dedicated to the fax machine, actually. Oh, okay.

Because of the Michael Jordan, I'm back fax. Oh, okay. You're among... This is a home game for you at this point. Okay. We're getting everything you're putting down. Okay, so... So he faxed it to me, and he was like, what do you think?

There's just something you'd like to do. And, of course, like I audition for it. Yes, it's something I would like to do. What kind of question is that? Yes. Beyond the X-Files? Yeah, that is something I'd like to do. But then he auditioned.

he goes, I'm going to, you know, obviously I'm going to change the name. I just wanted your voice in my head when I was writing it to get the rhythm of it. I was like, I'm going to pitch that you don't change the name of it because it's already about some, you know, a thing within a thing, as you said before. And he was like, man, that's a good idea. You sure you don't have a problem with that? I go, no. And he's like, well, it is kind of like a, again, a craven guy who insinuates himself into lots of rooms in which he is not welcome and sort of puts his self-interest above everybody else is. But that. Yes, sir. Yes. At the risk of being insulting. Did you need to audition? I did. Not for David, but for Chris Carter, I think is the guy. Please double-check that room. Get to work. I think that was- Chris Carter is the, yeah. Okay, yeah, thank you. He's the guy behind

the ex-biles. So I went in and there was other Wayne Fetterman types in the room. And I said to myself, if I can't get the role of Wayne Fetterman, this might be time to reconsider. Can I ask you? I know we're winding up. But like, I thought your, this show was just about like, oh, what happened with the Lindberg baby? We're going to find out. Oh, what else? Kind of.

Yeah. Kind of. So why am I on this show? I think that. Wayne wants to find out. I think that Wayne Federman has asked a question that everybody in our audience already has answered. Oh, okay, which is. Which is that Wayne Federman.

What I found out today is that Wayne Federman has lived a life that can only be described as that of a guy who climbed into the television onto the screen in a way that I'm not even sure Wayne Federman appreciates, frankly. That's correct. That's correct. It doesn't seem like you're as excited about you as I am. It's like, oh, I never got on everybody loves Raymond. Like, that's, that's, you want everybody to love Wayne Federman, and you are counting the missed field goals instead of all the mix. Maybe, maybe.

I think of it more of, not everyone to love Wayne Federman, but just like, I want to be like a great utility guy that can always be counted on. Well, I have good news for you. Yes. You're a professor at University of Southern California. Yeah. And you teach this class. And I went on the website, ratemyprofessors.com.

And I'm proud to report that Wayne Federman gets five stars across the board. Quote, super funny guy and amusing class, very chill. And the easiest A ever. Final was literally graded off of completion. Yeah. They had to do a project before the final. So just... If you show up to class

and do the assignments, you will get an A. What a... Is that an insult? It's a separate review. Is that another one? If you need a Gen Ed A, look no further. And here's the quote, Wayne,

that I want to leave you with. Because you said that you don't want everybody to love Professor Wayne Federman. Did I say that? Quote, we all love Mr. Federman, take his class.

Yeah, This is not helping, by the way. None of this, this run, this final, this flurry. This flurry. This ta-da, this going on this. I am waving a top hat in the air as I recite these screenshots. None of that is making me feel better. So I appreciate it.

Well, I can't win them all. No, no. Thank you for trying. Thank you for trying. Thank you for trying. You got to throw it out there. Wayne Federman. Thank you for visiting.

Betterman and out. Well played. This has been Pablo Torre finds out. A Metal Arc Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.