Page 7 - CelebReadies: Love, Pamela Part 2

Episode Date: January 2, 2026

We love you Pamela. We are so sorry for how the world treated you. We are so sorry for EVER DOUBTING YOU! On today's episode we finish the second half of Pamela Anderson's Love, Pamela, spanning from her abusive marriage with Tommy Lee to her activism around the world. What a well lived life, despite so much trauma. What a WELL READ LIFE! Pamela Anderson LOVES to read, and it comes through in this beautiful, poetic, reflective book that left us wanting more. Enjoy it with us and remember: never underestimate a woman just because she's hot!Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Oh, what's up, everybody? Are you nice in a hangover still? I hope you're not. It's now been a couple of days. I mean, if you Drake on New Year's Day, that is a way to start the year. I mean, how else are you supposed to start the year if you're hung over from New Year's Eve, MJ? It's a good point. It's a good point, and it's a new year.

And is it a good year? We don't know yet. We don't know yet. But hopefully you started off the year right by getting that Sex and the City movie in there with us. I hope that you enjoyed now. Now, we're all the MJ. We all got to have, yes, we all got to have the New Year's Day experience alongside MJ this year. And we hope that you loved it.

But this week, oh, we're going into the ass end, except not ass. end of Pamela Anderson. Now, Pamela Anderson last week, we watched her skyrocket to stardom. But also, this is the beginning, really, of Tommy time. And now we're not talking about putting that baby on her belly. No, it is a little bit more Lee than maybe you want. But it is not as much as she can handle. I guess, is that what we're saying about this? I don't know. I hope that you enjoy. Obviously

we loved this memoir to such an extent that we continued on to a second part of it just because we had no idea that it was so in depth. Oh yeah. She is a woman with such complexity and she wasn't able to show that complexity

in her, so much of her career and I'm so glad that she's able to do it now. I know. And we're here to explore with her so we hope you guys enjoy this is it's this is the new year and I don't feel any different but just think about Pam Anderson is reinventing herself as we speak new year new Pam it can be anytime you can always you know you don't have to wait for it to be Christmas time you have to wait for it to be New Year's you can do it anytime it's just like Pam but I hope you guys enjoy the second part of love Pamela much as we did. Just take a look. It's in a book. It's celebrities.

Celebrities. Celebrities. And I can sing it this week. Yeah, Jackie, we've been talking for an hour, and I didn't even ask you, how's your COVID? Thank you. It's gone. Thank you. It is, well, you know, there are remnants, but most of it is gone.

And I am very thankful for it. I can throw it out there. This round of it, y'all. not the most fun of them. Not, you know, some of them are easier than others. What was our favorite COVID? Yeah, what was our favorite COVID? Amacron, I think.

That was when, from one day to the next in New York City, it was just literally everyone got it, you know, and it was milder than Delta. So everyone had a fine time, you know, that's not true. Don't cancel me. Nobody had a fine time. COVID is bad. But it is funny now that we have just have, you know, we have our 2022 COVID. We have our 2023 COVID. Yes, this year we get to have our 2025 COVID.

And people are like, you just like always get COVID. I'm like, I live a life. How are you not getting COVID all the time? I tried not to. It's not like I'm out there licking all the railings I can find. It's just it happens. I get close to people. I like to hug people.

I think I'm just a close person. And I think sometimes I guess spits just going in my mouth. I love, this is what I realized during lockdown. I love to inhale other people. people's particles. Love it. Need it. It's part of what keeps me going as a human

being. I need their particles. Give them to me. It is weird though with COVID because I did take Paxlavid last week and then to like try and like knock it out. But then it kind of keeps going. You know? Where it's like oh, I'm not COVID positive anymore. I still feel like shit kind of.

Yeah, yeah. And like I still want to sleep all the time. Yeah. Life's got to keep life in y'all. Jackie, that's just life right now. Is that just, oh, is that our every second of every day? Man, we just got to keep our heads down. We just keep on going, guys.

We're in this together. And if there's one person that knows a lot about keeping your head down and just keep going, that would be Pam Anderson. That's true. She has just, man, especially listening to the back half of this book, you don't hear from like old-fashioned hippies. anymore. You really don't. And you also don't hear from celebrities who I was thinking about this when I finished the book this week. I was like, you know, Jackie and Holden and I used to always say, like,

why not just make a bunch of money and then kind of like fuck off and live a nice life doing what you like? And you know who did that? Pamela Anderson. Yeah, she fucking did. She, I mean, and it wasn't all roses and daisies. She got completely absolutely fucked by that tape that was completely not at all what we're going to talk about it. But after that and after her divorce from Tommy Lee, which we'll also talk about, she was like, you know what? I'm going to go buy a house on the beach, a trailer on the beach, and I'm going to raise my kids, and I'm going to drop them off every morning at school, and I'm going to feed their friends breakfast, and I'm going to hang out with them every day after school. And I'm just going to do that until they get to high school.

And then I'm going to just be an activist for the shit I care about. And I'm going to read bunch of books and I and do a bunch of gardening and do the and live the life she always dreamed of living make a bunch of pickles and then to top it all off I'll get to be roxy in Chicago which is something I've always wanted to do yeah because they had asked her when her kids were little and she was like no I actually I really although that is a dream of mine I want to be around my kids and I want to raised my kids. She's like, I can't do this run right now. It is like, but you know, the opportunity came back. It came back. It came back to her at a different time when it was a better time for her. She got to be Roxy. I'm so happy for her. I'm so happy for her. But also, in this business, one thing

that I really learned from this memoir with Pam Anderson is that I feel like this business is always telling you, you better say yes to every single opportunity because you're never going to get another one and it all goes away and you're never going to hold on to it and everything is a nightmare and you should always be stressed and you should always be upset and you should you should you should you should you should you should and I love that from the rip and I think it's because Pam Anderson in all of the talking she did in the audiobook was never like she likes to live a nice life. Definitely. Don't get me wrong. She's like I like nice things. She likes nice things. There is a lie at one point where she's

like, I cost a lot. Like, I cost a lot of money. Yes. But she has figured out a way to make all of her money stretch to a way that she can live this life. Totally. Yeah. She wants to live a nice life. Despite the fact that she does like nice things and like to live a nice life.

And she also likes to have fun. And I like that for her. Like she likes, she's not, you know, she even though she was like, I'm going to go raise my kids. It wasn't like she disappeared. You know, she was like doing events. again, doing a lot of activism and also going to parties and, you know, dating and having a fun time and having a good life. But like, you know, this is, everyone deserves to have a good life. I'm an anti-capitalist, right? But one of my professors in college always said, like,

well, we believe that, you know, everybody deserves fine champagne and cigars. Like, and I feel like that's, like, you know, in the world that we imagine, it's not that nobody has fine champagne and cigars. It's that everybody can. And I feel like she's not, she's not like a wealthy person who's aggressively hoarding her money and trying to make other people's lives worse. She is a person who likes to have a nice life and use her platform and her, and I don't even want to say her power because she's been completely, I mean, powerless, powerless, she's not fucked. She got completely screwed. She had no cultural status.

And in fact, the opposite, she had cultural, you know, she was a negative pariah because of this sex tape that was released against her will that wasn't even really a sex tape, but still, still, still, she had the reserves and the strength to be like, okay, well, what do I care about? I care about animals. I care about, you know, activism. And I know I'm not endorsing everything PETA has ever done right now. So I just also want to say that at the beginning. I know PETA is controversial. It's controversial. And like, there are completely legitimate. I was a vegan. I became a vegan in high school because of PETA. Like, so I understand, I understand Peter and I understand why people like them. I understand why people hate them. And so putting your

feelings about PETA aside. And again, if you have grievances against PETA, I think that's totally legit. But I, the fact that she was just like, you know, I really just like, I have this, again, it's not even really status, but I am a public figure. So what will I do? And she, and because everybody has always underestimated her and nobody takes her seriously, and she's kind of always been a punchline. And it is, there is like an inherent, there's, There's an interesting, it's an interesting way of, I think, manifesting power, like, where you're like, I'm just a dumb, blonde who you all jerk off to, but also here I am doing some diplomacy work, you know, and you're like, oh, okay. Again, even without endorsing every bit of activism she's ever done or all the organizations she's worked with or whatever, she has done such an interesting thing of being like, I kind of was turned against my will turned into this, you know, laughing stock and joke and punchline. but I still care about these things. And if it's more unexpected for me to be the face of this, then whatever, but I'm still going to do it.

And she ended up, she has been quite successful as an activist, you know, and as like, and she's devoted a lot of the second half of her life to that. I mean, I feel like some of, I think the two things that I've always known about Pam Anderson is one, that there was the sex tape and two, that she's a vegan. I feel like that is such a huge part of who she is and her activism, but also just even how she lives her life. Like she is like a last bastion of a type of person that like I always, I feel like in another timeline I wanted to be. Totally. The idea that like she talks to trees and she believes that, you know,

that there's like a soundtrack to her dreams and she feels that like, And that she was talking about, like, even in the end, it just kind of made me think of my mom, because my mom also, like, I've got a couple owl tattoos. My mom and I have an owl thing. And part of it was, like, the idea that owls, specifically, are messengers from people that have crossed over to the living. And owls have come to me and my mom in different ports of our lives. But, like, I love the idea of, like, because she, I bring this up specifically because Pam Anderson in the epilogue was like, I believe that little birds are messengers from the afterlife to the living. And I was just like, yes, bitch.

It's just like things like that. Like the way that she talks about her dogs throughout the entire book of how much like the safety and the support and what she like she talks about dogs in a better light than she talked about anyone she ever fucked. Like I feel like it's like in a way of but the dogs. Like the dogs were always there. for her. And as we discussed last week, even the people in her life who really, really, really hurt her, she still manages to talk about with like a pretty astonishing baseline level of respect,

including Tommy Lee. So after reading more of, you know, of this book, last week when I was bringing up anti-vise, like rules for men or whatever, and I brought up, you can only have one true love. And once you found it and whether you've kept it or lost it, you'll never recover. And you had said, I think Pam Anderson took that to heart. Man, did she? Because here's the thing. This book was not written that long ago. How many other times has Pam Anderson been married and it was not discussed in the book? The rest of her love life outside of Tommy Lee is not really spoken of. I personally appreciate how little Kid Rock is talked about. Ew. Kid Rock is talked about, but ew. Can we just sidebars say, ew, Pam Anderson, kind of forgot that you were with Kid Rock and, ew. Can we just throw that out there? Bad judgment, especially for somebody who is, again, always had unapologetic politics, you know, but I know that this was a different time, but Kid Rock has always been who he is. So I really don't get that one. But that was like she was just coming off at the Tommy Lee stuff.

That seemed like it was way more her being like... Bad rebound. Then I found myself in this. And it was like bad from the start. Like I... Yeah. It's a brief. I was like, I really can't deal with the whole chapter on Kid Rock.

And it's very brief. The long and the short of it is they, you know, kind of like fell for each other. He was upset because she spent all the time that they were together with this other friend of hers who was a gay man. He was extremely jealous. And then they broke up. That was it. Like, they had a couple of yacht parties. They didn't really interact.

I don't, there's very little about them actually interacting. She's kind of like, I married him and then we divorced. I guess that's why I kind of did immediately forget that she even brought up the Kid Rock thing because like I was so focused on how she, which honestly respectful how she spoke of the father of her children and that I found very impressive, even though he was horrible and he was horrible to her, but she still speaks of him with respect. And I know it's because of her children. Totally.

That makes me respect. Not that I'm saying that a person shouldn't have the right to drag somebody that does shit like that. I just feel like it makes a lot of sense about who Pam Anderson is that she doesn't. Totally. I, yeah, I think that L.A. Review of Books piece that I mentioned last week, I think that the, I think that one of the criticisms of this book is that she doesn't go hard enough on people who might deserve it.

Hugh Heffner being one of them. But I did find myself like, I don't think that she was never bad to her. So it's like, I think that she didn't want to speak out of like a, of a, right. But to her, for her, it was a lifeline. It was, yeah, it was so like, it like the Playboy Mansion wasn't just a job. Like the place was a safe haven for her. even though the Playboy Mansion is the Playboy Mansion, but there's even that point in time when, like,

they all had like a big family Playboy Mansion party and, like, the boys came up to her and was like, do you know what Uncle Heff does? Do you know what Uncle Heff does? And said that to her parents, to Pam Anderson and Pam Anderson, it's like, oh, God, we got to get out of here. But later on, when the boys are older, and they are, you know, starting to become adults.

And she's like, if you ever need help or need a shelter, the mansion's always there for you. And like that's, so it's like, okay, she obviously had a very different experience than I think a lot of other people. And I'm not excusing the Playboy Mansion. I'm not saying, oh, that must be. And it's great. I'm not. Again, I think it says a lot about Pam Anderson. Totally.

That she could have gotten a lot more headlines by saying spicier shit. And she chose not to. And I think that for her, the most important part about the Playboy Mansion, especially in her telling, the most important part about what the Playboy mansion and what Playboy was for her was this way out, yeah, this way out of, you know, the abusive relationship she was in, of the poverty she was living in, of the dysfunctional family life she had. And so I think that it's it's both important, obviously, to hear about like why an institution like Playboy, how it hurt, how it has hurt people and how it is predatory. But what she did that what I think was so interesting was to be like, you must think that Playboy was this terrible part of my life because exploitation, exploitation of women, blah, blah, blah. But actually, I chose to do that and it was the best thing that I could have done. She openly says how much it, because she had had so many issues with her body in the way that she looked and like that she didn't feel connection with her breasts and that she did, you know, she was talking about her body that she explicitly said that shooting for Playboy. empowered her in a way that nothing else ever could for her.

Yeah. The way that she felt like how respectful for her the shoots were, how it was that it was like everything was her choice. Right, right. I am not saying that that is the case for every person that it's gone through that mansion. Right, right, right. But for her, that is what she experienced. And then when it comes to Tommy Lee, we, you know, so we ended last week,

on them. They have this whirlwind weekend in Cancun. And even though she was kind of like, don't, don't like he comes and they like super fall crazy, crazy hard in love. Right. And so again, just from the jump, neither Jackie or I is interested in rehabilitating Tommy Lee. That guy's a piece of shit. He was arrested for spousal abuse with her. And she gets into all of that. And the way that she does talk about him, like Jackie said, it is with a baseline of respect. and like, I guess, empathy, you know? Because she still talks about, I mean, his brutality towards her. It's not like she's pretending like that didn't happen.

She is explaining that, you know, especially like when she was unsaid and things like, he was just so enraged with jealousy. Yes. Not that she was getting these opportunities, but just her being like looked at by other people. Like that was his property. Yes. And it was in a way, like, but she saw it. as romance.

She saw it as a lust and a love and as a wanting. But like, think about this for a second, Pam. Like, she gets pregnant right away and trigger warning. She loses the baby and she ends up, also another trigger warning, she ends up overdosing. Which she did in a moment of despair after a particularly violent fight that they had had. that they had had and what all I had to write it down that so she ends up in the hospital and when Tommy Lee comes to see her they fuck in the stretcher in the hospital after she had just

OD and or excuse me that was she didn't OD she with what she was experiencing yeah and I just was like that to me and like in her brain I imagine was the like this is so romantic I think that that is how she she does talk about it like we just you know the way that a young person

we just loved each other and we just and we needed each other in that moment and like he was seeing me and like but all I could think of was the toxicity of the relationship that like I love to fuck don't get me wrong

y'all know I make no bones about it but there is also like in that instance I don't think that that's what I would be looking for and I don't think that that's what I would I just keep thinking about that but that moment is really weird perspective I know because she and she talks about it with with I think the sure the entire way she wins like almost like a

beautiful like a bittersweet memory totally but I think it's the way I don't know if she made this choice purposefully as as a writer but I think all of the ways that she describes her, these really traumatic points of her life, she is describing them kind of with the point of view she had at the time, which I think is very effective. And yeah, and so I found myself, again, not wanting to forgive Tommy Lee, but to be like, oh, like I could, it's like, I could see it from her point of view. Like, and I do think that there's value in that if you're talking about a violent relationship. I think there is value in being like, but this is what it felt

like, and this is why I forgave him. I was with him and why I went back to him. And yes, like, I literally had taken a bunch of pills and drank a bottle of vodka because he had caused such a scene on set because he was so controlling and possessive that I thought there was no way I could keep going and I had no idea how to get out. And then in the hospital, she finds out she was pregnant and then she ends up losing that baby, but they were so happy at the idea of being pregnant that they immediately get pregnant again. And so it's like, you know, right, I was really, I really grappled with this section because I'm like, I

don't think she is rehabilitating him, but she is talking about the entire, about him as a person and about the relationship with like a lot of generosity that is, that is, that is not usual when you are thinking about such a violent relationship, you know, and it's complicated. Yes. But I also do think that like part of her, it seems, does still love. him. Right, right, right. And it is, that's complicated. I think she loves what he could, what his potential was, you know, and what they had had, what him, him and his best moments. Which, I mean, I wish she wouldn't. I wish she, I mean, that's, right. And she doesn't, you really should tell him to fuck off forever. Yes. And she is, she is very clear, like, she's not like mealy-mouthed about

it. She's like, she describes, you know, the incident. So she has the, she has the, she has her first kid. Brendan, I think, is his name. And then she has Dylan, like, right afterwards. The crazy, what is so insane is that the whole sex tape thing happens when she was pregnant with her second child. Yes. And we're talking like Irish twins here. Like, yeah, they're really close. It was like she had a baby and she is now pregnant again. And then she finds out that her property was stolen from inside of her own home, inside of a safe from her own fucking home. A safe in her garage that they had both consensually made videos of each other. Yes.

And then watched as the world ripped her apart. Blames her. And then watched as the person that stole it make millions of dollars off of it. Yes. Yes. And there's nothing she can. do about it because here's a thing she tries to sue and they try to take it to trial and what happens they put her up on the stand and they shame her and they say didn't you do playboy and like didn't you do

playboy so so this is kind of what you deserve isn't it you consented to being naked before so what's the problem with this it was what are you talking about and she still says that this moment the moment with the sex tape was the worst thing that's ever happened to her like it's completely out of her control she can do nothing they're trying to sue and yeah it's it is it is is, it's not, I mean, listen, I'm not like rooting for Tommy Lee past Tommy Lee and Pam Anderson to stay married, but like they both were horrified that this happened, you know, like neither of them wanted this to happen. They weather that together. She has the second baby. And then when he, when the second baby is like an infant is when the spousal abuse happens. And it was in the middle of a fight. And seven, she was holding her seven week old baby in one hand. The other toddler, not even a toddler, grabbing onto her leg as he's. doing these horrible things to her. Yeah. And she's trying to shield her.

That, honestly, I know that we're saying that like, she was generous. But even in the generosity of describing this incident, horrifying, horrifying. And to have just gone through the worst time of your life, like in public, like as a public figure, and then to have your spouse attack you while you're holding your infant, your newborn, and your toddler is, I mean, that. like the like the fact that you have killed like I feel like that's how you accidentally kill somebody like I feel like in that instance if Pam Anderson ever would have been capable of that ever um like that's the instance right it's just it's why like the the the amount of yeah like being down I mean someone

coming at you while you're holding your children yeah no and then despite the fact that they've always had this and that she had taken him back after other abuse after that, at least in her telling, she's like, okay, it's, you're sorry, you're out, it's over, it's over, it's over, you cannot, but she does, you know, she does continue to, he continues to be, you know, an active father to them, I think. But it is crazy because both of them also didn't want nannies raising the kids. Yeah. Pam and Tommy both wanted to be present parents. Now, again, I don't know to what extent Tommy Lee ends up being a present. parent. But man, Pam, Pam is there. I know. She didn't have any, she didn't have any help when they were little. Children. She's fucking Pam Anderson and she doesn't have any nannies. She's just like, yeah, I wanted, I wanted to do it. And I got my parents help sometimes. You know, I had, I had my parents.

And, you know, you remember from last week how volatile their relationship was. And her parents end up staying together and, you know, being this huge support for her throughout the rest of, you know, throughout the boy's childhood and like, you know, and so that's another, they're still alive. It's like, yeah, they're still, but she's still taking care of them. But like that also is, I feel like is informed, it allows us to see the generous way in which she talks about Tommy Lee because we know that her dad was also abusive and abusive to her mom and violent and unpredictable and explosive. And she had so much empathy for him.

She knows it was because he was, you know, struggling with alcoholism. and all this stuff. And then it sounds like he kind of like, she has a line like later in the book where she's like, despite all their trials and tribulations, like they made it to a better place. And, you know, it's like, and again, I don't wish that for Tommy, her and Tommy Lee. I think that relationship needed to end. And it's good that it did. And it's very good that her hard line was anytime you come, you cannot hurt me with the kids here. And it's over now. And it's going to stay over and there's no back and forth. But you can imagine that there's this part of her that's like, my parents made it through these like they grew up you know and and I think that even though

it seems like she watched her father change and so I imagine in her brain yeah if her father could do it I would assume she would think that maybe there was a part in the back of her brain that thought maybe someday Tommy Lee will change and um well girl you're still waiting and I think you're gonna be waiting a long time. It really, you know, I don't want to say that she's got the worst taste in men, you know, but it is one of the worst qualities about her as the men she chooses. It really is. And it says a lot about her, how she feels about herself. And I will throw it out there that I will more so judge her taste in music. Because if you're going from a Motley crew member to Kid Rock, and you're like, and he was such a great musician.

that I, like, so everything about Kid Rock, that wool was pulled over your eyes because he was a great musician. I know. I get, I, I plugged my ears and pretended it wasn't happening during the Kid Rock part. I was like, I can tolerate Tommy Lee. At least he seemed like an interesting. At least he's a Motley crew, you know? He was like an interesting person at the time. And Kid Rock, there's absolutely not a single compelling thing about him to me.

But yeah, so that's right. I did think it was funny that Kid Rock called Tommy Lee to tell him that he was in love with Pam Anderson and wanted to marry her. And Tommy Lee told him to fuck off and that he'd kill him. And then he hung up the phone. I know. That was really like, it's like the Larry David Giff where you're like, oh. I kind of, I kind of deciding with Tommy Lee in this case. Yeah.

And I do. it makes me think even less about kid rock because it's like at first it's like well I mean I guess it's nice that he called and then it's like why because Tommy Lee still owns Pam Anderson right I know um oh because he's still because oh because Tommy Lee is like higher up than you in the world of music and so you need and like because I don't think I imagine and maybe this is just my assumption about fucking kid rock over here but I'm gonna assume he didn't do it out of like a you know actual respect, because if it was out of actual respect, he wouldn't have married her. Yeah. And he did. Yeah. Yeah. No, I truly... For like two seconds. That's it. It was so sure. I truly

can't explain. Like, there's the way that she does talk about this like love, this complicated and problematic whatever love with her and Tommy Lee, there's none of that with Kid Rock. She's just like, he was there. He had a yacht. I spent the entire time with my friend David. He was blind with jealousy,

even though David was an openly gay man. And then we divorced. I'm like, okay. All right. That's it. All right. In and out. Okay. We'll keep it moving. Good to know. And then, yeah, she kind of, you know, again, she doesn't withdraw from public life exactly. But she really, really, after the divorce with Tommy Lee and the sex tape, which again, basically happened at the same time and within the same year. She really prioritizes giving her kids like a normal and good life. She gets this. And you remember, she grew up on a island in British Columbia, Vancouver. Vancouver. and so she gets this like Vancouver she was yeah she was in a small town like British Columbia I don't understand how Canada works yeah at British Columbia I remember because I wrote down Columbia and I was like is it spelled like the country or like the college and I don't remember the answer but um good I'm glad it's stuff but she is just she loves the beach she loves nature she loves the beach as Jackie mentioned she talks to the trees um you know she sees a holiness in nature but she is just she loves the beach she loves the beach as Jackie mentioned she talks to the trees um you know she sees a holiness in nature. So she just gets this like, you know, kind of like trailer beach situation, beach house. And she's like, my kids woke up every morning and went surfing for several hours before they went to school. And then I would take them to school and then they would hang out with their friends.

And like that might have been my favorite part of the book. She's just like, I just wanted to give my kids like a peaceful, stable childhood, which after going through all of that, after being partnered with Tommy Lee, having this like birthday bash that's so infamous that it's like still written about. after having these massive public instances of, like, violence and also drug use and, like, all, you know, she's had, she had a, she had a wild life there for a minute. And then for her to just be like, you know what? I really want my kids to have a cool, nice childhood. And that was what she did. And she just did that for, like, their entire childhood. She was just like, I'm going to be there for you.

And then once she decides that she wants to send them to this, like, hippie Canadian boarding school, which is kind of like a school. which is kind of like a school she always It does sound cool And she's kind of a school she always admired And she's like And also she a big part of her is like I want them to like grow up to be like good men Good young men

Good good people but like obviously Not their father essentially was saying I just don't want them to be like their father It is very subtly being like How do I make sure that how do I counter program The Tommy Lee out of their genetics And so she sends them to this Canadian board

boarding school kind of like Waldorfish style. And, uh, and that's when she kind of starts reemerging back into like a lot more public appearances and stuff. But yeah, she really kind of took herself just time to raise them, which I think is really, really neat. And, yeah. And then also and only then is she like, okay, now now it's time to get back to work on my terms, you know? Working on myself. I will throw it out there for all you Canadians that are screaming at the speakers right now. So Vancouver is a city within the Canadian province of British Columbia. So it's like British Columbia is the state and Vancouver is like the biggest city.

Thank you. Thank you. And so she did not grow up in Vancouver. She grew up on an island in British Columbia. Got it. Okay. So I just needed, I was going to keep thinking about it. Maybe it's all, it's the ADHD about me

and I just needed everyone to know. No, and honestly, I know that this always comes up with blind items because whenever she would come up, we would always be like, foreign born. Like, I know she's Canadian. Like, I do feel like we know that she's Canadian. But in the book, her relationship with being Canadian and specifically growing up on this like beach island becomes so, even though that's at first, it's just part of her cool, interesting childhood story, which a lot of people have pointed out that like the first half of this book could be a movie, like would be a great, you know, biographical movie about her because it's just such an interesting life. But then as she is an adult, again, it informs all these decisions she makes.

She's like, I want to live on the beach. I'm going to send my boys back to Canada. And also, like, I think Canada, Canadians, again, please sound off in the comments. I think that Canada, it seems like there is a more active relationship with recognizing the contributions of First Nations people than there is in the United States. I might be totally wrong. I know the Canadian government has done some really, really fucked things. So I'm not trying to be like, the Canadian government is good. But she speaks a lot about First Nations peoples and like traditions and their and contributions and stuff in a way that makes that felt to me kind of uniquely Canadian.

That was a part of her. Yes. And that that I think is also a big part of her and her again growing up like on this island like her relationship with nature and with animals seems to have been very shaped by this specific Canadian upbringing. And I just want to point that out, you know. It sounds magical. It does. The way she describes where she grew up and where the kids end up growing up, like, yeah, no wonder she wanted to raise her children there. She really, even though her childhood was very upsetting and traumatic in many different ways, that she still is so connected to the place that she's from, that she still wanted to go back and raise her children there.

And that is, I mean, that's beautiful. The way she describes it, I'm just like, yeah, fucking take me there. I want to be there. Well, and then when the kids are really little, they're still, she's like, they're living on the beach, but it's in Malibu. And so, but that's also really interesting because she's like, she's Pam Anderson and she's in Malibu, boo, but she's just like, I'm living a completely normal life. I'm like, I'm dropping them off at school. I'm picking them up. Like, she's kind of under the radar, you know, like, and I think that's so cool, too. Well, that's where a lot of, you know, especially like when L.A. was on fire earlier this year, those were the hills that were on fire. And that's why, but it is like the side of Malibu where all this, like, celebrities secret live all the time because it's like they've got these great like I like we know this one millionaire that lives up there it's like their kids go to like a wilderness kind of school where they're like shooting arrows during the day and shit like that it's like that's the kind

of stuff yeah that's right there you know yeah which is it's a whole other world from los angeles and yet it is fairly close so and I think I might be getting this wrong but I think that when her kids were like in elementary school, I think she sent them to public school. I might be wrong. And then it was when they were in high school. And then it was like, I'm going to send them to this weird boarding school. But, um, but yeah, like she, she really just, I'm fascinated by the choices she made as a parent. And also that it does seem that she like continued to like collaboratively co-parent with Tommy Lee, you know, like she's like, we discussed their schooling and this is what we decided. And then, yeah, you know, the second half of the book is definitely like less eventful than

the first half be in part because more peaceful that's the thing again because she makes these choices to be like I am going to engage with public life on my terms and the way that I want and so a lot of what she's done for the last you know 15 20 years is like activism she has random you know if you look at her Wikipedia she has like a bunch of different TV appearances and dancing with the stars and RuPaul's Drag Race and um you know various always doing little things she was always around Like there was the rose of Pam Anderson. You know, it's like she has been the, she has played into her being the butt of the joke because I think with her, her piece is what mattered most to her. Right.

And it seemed like it's like, well, may as well be in on the joke if you're going to be making jokes. And what a way to look at life. And honestly, the way you were talking about Pam Anderson before. now go with me this is quite uh quite a comparison okay but are you familiar with the story of joan rivers at all uh you know am i i feel like i'm a little i feel like i've maybe read a book or if you're not i'd love to read some joan rivers memoirs because the story of joan rivers is one that when i learned it i as a as a comedian as an artist, I think about it all the time. I think about Joan Rivers all the time.

And the ways in which I would compare them. Oh, yeah. I saw a piece of work. That's why. I saw a piece of work. Yeah. A piece of work. Yeah. And like where the world had such a steadfast belief that they knew who this person was. Right, right, right. And Pam Anderson while she's never really gone out of her way to break everyone's stereotypes about her until now, I don't know if she... It's interesting because we've been reading so many of these memoirs and so much of celebrity dumb,

a lot of it is money, a lot of it is who you know, a lot of it is work ethic and a crazy work ethic, But it really is interesting with Pam Anderson that she is really chosen what she wanted to do most steps of the way. Obviously, you know, the sex tape is what completely unraveled so much of what she was attempting to do. Right. Which was live a fun life that she wanted to be proud of. And that it's not that she fell ass over tea kettle into being famous because she works very hard for it. But it is kind of crazy that the negative stereotypes of her is what has kept her alive in the world of media.

So she never wanted to break that per se. and now that she is doing things like last year. Like, I want to read now. Even though the memoir came out, what was it, in like 2018. So it's like, I guess, oh God, that was seven years ago at this point. I want to hear her transition from where that book left off to now. Yeah, I know. I know.

How did she get to the place where she's like, I'm not wearing makeup and going out anymore? I am going to jump back into the world of celebrity. I am going to do it in a different way. Doing naked gun. Yeah, doing press tours. is all of that. I know. She doesn't,

and she doesn't talk about any of the... I want to transition. Totally. I was thinking the same thing. Like, it seems like the memoir was kind of like a beginning for her. A beginning, yes.

Of a new era of her life. Which good for you, girl, hell of her. Yes. Yes, with the cooking show and the pickles and the, um, the, um, the, um, and, and, you know,

having this more naked gun and everything. But yeah, I mean, her film credits before are, she was in Barbwire, scary movie three, Borat Baywatch And then

Oh my God The Borat stuff Was that Kid Rock Or was that Tommy Lee? Uh Oh God I don't remember I don't

It's been a lot She went to go see They went to go see Borat And she didn't It was one of the shitty men And she didn't tell him Because she wanted to surprise That was Kid Rock I think

And wanted to surprise him With him being in it And he flipped the fuck out And like berated her Yes he did yes I think that was Kid Rock But yeah she Right

It's wild that she just was like, I'm not going to like make a bunch of random movies just to keep my name in the headlines. Again, she did do. She's always been around, like you said. It was Kid Rock. That's what led to the divorce. It was the Borat fight that led to the divorce. Yeah. You know, Borat had a big impact on all of us, you know.

Yeah. You know, I guess more on some than others. But yeah, now she does seem like she's in this like renaissance, a Pamisone. And I do, I've also found myself wanting more like, okay, like, and not just Liam Neeson, you know, but like, but who she is, how she has figured out how to be a public figure now, which is so different. And how much of that of her change in presentation was purposeful. Like I, there was this her stupid tweet that went viral that a bunch of people were rightfully critical of that was like, does Pam Anderson need to like repent for her like past like sex choices by not wearing. makeup. Everyone was like, what are you talking about? But like, it was not a, it was, you know, I'm going to be generous. Not, just assume that was, yeah, we all make mistakes

and you're going to want to think a little bit more. You're going to want to make sure you know what you're talking about before you tweet. But, uh, but yeah, it seems like she has, it's not like she's reemerged, right? Because she's never disappeared, but she's always been very intentional about the work that she chose where, and, and that now, you know, I would love to hear her just like, right, especially since we know she's a great writer, like, say more about, about being somebody who was always famous for being hot and now you are perceived as an older

woman. Like, how does that change the choices that you make? How do you make the choice to stop wearing makeup, say more about that? And how did you make the choice to get, do movies again and do press and deal with all of that scrutiny again? Because I would imagine that if you've had the amount of trauma around being a public figure that she has, that it would be really hard to reemerge and do a press tour again. You know, like I would love another memoir about this, this stage in her life. I'm going to assume we will get another one in the future. Sorry, this is just a random Pam Anderson fact that I just found. And I was wondering if that was the case and it actually is. So Pam Anderson has that iconic tattoo, right? She's got the one tattoo. She has on her arm. She's

got the barbed wire. And it was, she did get it while shooting barbed wire. Because she said, I didn't want them having to draw it on every single day. So when they drew it on, I wore it around for a day, realized I liked it, didn't want to have to go through with it. So I just got a tattooed. It's great, too. There's a part in the book. I don't remember now what is even the part where she's trying to, like, tell somebody who she is. And she's like, you might know me from my film Barbed Wire.

It's just, like, so funny to be like Pam Anderson and be like, I have a couple of film credits. And really, that's it. That's it. You might know me from Baywatch. You might know me from Barb Wire. And it's like, also, we all know. what you actually know me from, but we don't, yeah, but we don't, you know, let's say it's Barb wire, you know, I, yeah, what a, what an interesting public figure. The way that she has,

has tried to, for somebody whose entire public perception was seized from her, the way that she has tried to rebuild it with, with her own, you know, control. It's just absolutely fascinating. What did you feel about her relationship with Julian Assange? Oh, I know, I know. There was, I didn't know what to take from that section. I was surprised she included a whole chapter about it, a whole section. A whole section. Yeah, about Julian Assange. Yeah, you know, I, there was obviously, I think, tremendous value to what Chelsea

Manning did with WikiLeaks. I don't like hold up Julian Assange currently, nor for the past many years, as a hero the way she does. but I thought it was interesting I hold Chelsea Manning up as a hero I'm Julian Assange's I don't feel the same way but I don't feel the same admiration

for him as she does but yeah it was a weird interlude I was like okay we're gonna talk about Julia Assange I had to go back and be like wait I'm talking about like Julian Assange like wait that Julian Assange I know she almost married him

to try to save him from going to jail and he's like I'm going to jail anyway that's not that wouldn't stop that's not gonna do anything So thank you, though, but I'm good. Yeah, no, that was, but, but, you know, if nothing else, it does show she really has a commitment to her politics whether or not they are popular. Same with being a vegan. Being a vegan in the 1990s was was not popular.

Pita was and remains deeply unpopular. Julian Assange, extremely controversial. And if you're wondering why my opinion of Hidn has changed from WikiLeaks to now, you can like look at, you know, the 2016 election and stuff. been a, but like, again, Chelsea Manning, WikiLeaks, that started with Julian Assange. But anyway, I was like, she is somebody who is not afraid to have a controversial point of view. And not just for the sake of controversy. She really seems to believe this stuff. And whether or not you agree with her, you know, we don't always love a true believer. Sometimes being a true believer and believing something regardless of what other people think can take you down a dangerous path.

But for her, she just really, she's just like, Julian Assange, like, stands for freedom. And I love that about him. And I stand for freedom. And I'm like, okay, all right. Like, free speech and whatever, you know, what, again, for disagree or agree, it was, it's an interesting choice for a celebrity to make. Also, it's kind of crazy because, like Taylor Swift,

every time she goes to a city or travels somewhere, she tries to see what kind of animal rights she can support when she, And she go, like, she was talking about multiple different, like, and then I went here and I did this. And then I went here. Like, she's like, like a culturally responsive way. She had this whole, I know. She's like, she had this whole thing about being like, well, I'm not going to be like a tourist. So she had this moment about like, I was going to go to Japan and I had this whole thing I wanted to do about animals there. And then I realized that it would have been like culturally insensitive. And so I pivoted. And it's like, you know, again, even if you don't agree with all of her, if you don't have the exact same

political profile as her, she is a very thoughtful person. She is one. thing that comes through in this book, she is incredibly well read. She is incredibly driven. She is incredibly smart. And so all the choices she makes, she does with great thought, great intention, and with like a massive foundation of thinkers, philosophers, poets, political theory. I mean, she's read a fucked. I was like, can I get the panel that Anderson reading list? You know, like, she is a scholar in her own way, right? And also like, actual scholar of like rereading them and like reading into them and researching and she loves she's a voracious reader yeah so i think whether or not you agree with her about julian asand you at least have to say you have thought these things through you know and uh she is she is absolutely voracious reader which is it's you know and then i have to go check my own shit because i'm like why am i surprised that this beautiful hot woman who's known for a sex tape is an incredibly smart well-read person i have a bunch of internalized shit, I still clearly need to unpack. We all do, right? Society told us this.

Society for our entire lives, Pam Anderson has been a famous sex symbol. You know, it's like from the early 90s. So this is like our entire, a waking, coherent life. We have known about Pam Anderson and everything we've been told is all bullshit. And I think that I brought up that tweet before, not just to be like, oh, this one person had a bad tweet, but I think it would be a mistake to look at her now with her makeup off and be like, oh, she's like made a change. I think that she is, I think that her doing the no makeup thing. She's finally being herself. Is an affirmation of who she has always been. And she is smart enough to understand that people will experience her a certain way if she has makeup and experience her in a different way without. But I don't think that that's like an apology or a regret or a penance or anything for who. she has been before. I think it is a recognition of how people perceive her, how people have always perceived her at an experiment with being perceived differently. You know, and I think that that's, again, I think she have to really assign a lot of thought and a lot of agency to the choices

this woman makes because, again, she is nothing, if not very smart and very thoughtful and very well read. Not everybody who's well read makes smart decisions, but. And that goes to show with He's also true with that. Yes, she did still marry Kid Rock. You can read all the philosophy you want, but you can still marry Kid Rock sometimes. And we all make mistakes, I guess. It just, and also just remind yourself that it's like everybody makes poor choices. It's what we do with those choices, all right?

It's how we pivot. It's how we learn. It's how we grow. And she is really trying to put in the work. And, man, it shows with Last Showgirl. Did you watch Last Show Girl? No, I haven't seen Last Show Girl. It now also knowing how she is as a parent, I kind of want to watch Last Showgirl again.

Okay. Because I think that she did an even better job than I previously thought. Yeah. Okay. Great. Yeah. No, I want to watch her cooking show. I don't want to watch Pam and Tommy or whatever.

I think that's, I think she does not like that. No, she is this. She did not support that. She does not want anything being made about it. She actively is against it. Yeah. And therefore, I will never. watch it. But I will watch her cooking show because, you know, there's not enough cooking shows

that are plant-based, a lot of meat in there. So I want to watch it just for that. So I'm, and yeah, I really, I've, I've walked away from this book with, you know, nothing but admiration. Not unequivocal, you know, there's again, there's, we can be critical of some of the choices she's made. But certainly admiration for her as a person. Yeah, a lot of it. And I hope that maybe you guys got a little bit more admiration for Pam Anderson out of this as well. Thank you so much for hanging out with us on celebrities. I really enjoyed this book and I'm really glad we read it. And I, man, I don't know what we're going to read next. We don't know what we're going to read next. By the time you hear this, maybe we'll have decided. Yes, probably. But, you know,

it's, of course, now I immediately am like, we need to be reading Joan Rivers. But it's like, Jackie, step off just because now you want to talk about Joan Rivers doesn't mean we're going to go down a Joan Rivers hole. We can go to your hyperfocus association from Pan Anderson. That's fine. We'll see. We'll discuss it. There's a lot. We'll discuss. We'll discuss. There's so many choices out there. We're going to have a great time. Oh, my God. Thank you guys so much for your patronage. Thank you. I hope that you love Pam Anderson now. And we love you guys. And we will be back next week with a new book. And you'll know what it is soon. So have a great rest of your day, everybody, and we'll talk to you guys soon. Let's sing the song. Just take a look. It's in a book.

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