Page 7 - Pop History: 10 Things I Hate About You

Episode Date: May 11, 2021

We explore the making of the 1999 classic 10 Things I Hate About You.Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/page7podcastKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0 Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You're just too good to be true. Can't take my eyes. Thank you. You'd be like even to touch. Oh, my God. Australia? He's Australian. How do you end up in this?

American high school? I feel like I'm upside down right now. The 90s. The northern god I'm alive. I think it's the locks the crab from a little mermaid? A little mermaid, I think, is now what we're dealing with. Kiss off us. Kiss the girl.

All right. Today we're doing... I love you, Jackie. Little mermaid. Is that what Heath Ledger saying to me? Is that what he's saying to me? Welcome to 10 things eight about you. Oh, my God.

He pledger in this movie. Ocumma, a gum and a come and a come and a girl. I'm sorry. It appears we're going to have another hormonal sexual awakening episodes. Yes, I love these. They're so fun. One of us has it. One of us has it.

Every episode, I feel like one of us has some kind of sexual connection to the episode. This time it's definitely, Jackie, if you hear those dog noises that she's making. Also, I will say David Crummeltz. You all know if you listen to my other things and David Crumholtz is a soft spot for my loins. Oh, sure. Mostly because of the Santa Claus, but we're not talking about the Santa Claus right now. Oh, there's going to be Adam's family values. Oh, mama me.

I am horny. Wow, what we're doing a little bit of an earlier episode today so that might make sense. We all know that Jackie's horny in the morning. Morning horny. I'm mourning hornies.

I got my mournys going on right now. And I will say, now that I am watching it as an adult, can we just start off this by saying that Mr. Morgan, I think, was the hero of 1999 movies? Sure.

Because the line of, I know how difficult it must be for you to overcome all those years of upper middle class suburban oppression must be tough. But the next time you storm the PTA crusading for better lunch meat or whatever it is you white girls complain about, ask them why they can't buy a book written by a black man. That is just a line in this movie. I know.

I pause it and clapped. That's great. I didn't even realize that when I was watching this when I was 14. For sure. And I mean, that was rare at the time for that to be a. Addressed. They also addressed cultural appropriation in a very like early way with the white boys with the dreads and the Bob Marley love. Yes, very much so.

Yeah. But did it zero win on it because you also notice there are still only, you know, not as woke as we wanted to be only one black character. Oh, two black characters. And one of them is very evil. She's the villain. Absolutely bitchy. But she wins in the end of the day because she looks pretty much. much exactly the same now, Gabriele.

God damn. She looks honestly better now than she did when she was a teenager. For real. And Andrew Keegan, the poor man that was just put into a box in the 90s of just being just a yucky dude. He was yucky in almost everything. Yeah, but then he started

a cult, so it seems like that was the correct choice. It started for him, but you know what? Sometimes he's just got to start a cult, Jared Letto. Yes. But today we're talking about 10 things I hate about. You pre-Cult Andrew Keegan, pre-death Heath Ledger. And he was so hot.

He was. And also, interesting actor, I just, oh my God, but the hair and the smile and the fucking clothes and the smoking. I'm going to say the accent is good for me. Mama, here I come again. And this is the thing. And so, you know, you were talking about how you had to say it. This definitely fit in the category when you were talking about trying to get Jeff to watch it with you. It's definitely fit in the category for me, growing.

up where it was like, A, I was maybe, maybe slightly older for it, but also is definitely the, oh, this isn't, this isn't for me. This is like a girl movie for girls. That was definitely a girl movie in that era. As a Shakespeare nerd for Shakespeare nerds, I definitely could have gotten down on it, I think, in that sense. I don't even think I knew it was based on Taming the Shrew in its original release. But yeah, come to find, it's quite a charming film to watch. I think now everybody around this age group can look at one of these films and whether or not you are into romantic comedies or not anything like that just now it's this time caps. Oh yeah.

Where I just remember all these things about high school fashion, high school, the way people acted, the popular music of the time. I loved Letters to Cleo, by the way. Oh my God. My brother had one of their albums and I absolutely loved it and I was like, oh my God, letters of Cleo, I totally forgot about them. and was listening to that. And that was also the heyday of doing punk-esque covers of songs.

Oh, don't get me started on this. Yes. Oh, my God. A million of them. This is, when I was younger when this came out, and I was very disinterest in all of this at the time, I love teen movies now, but it does the one thing that makes me more enraged than anything,

which is the faux rocker culture, where you just don't do any research about what kids who actually are rebels do. And also it's ironic because then Julia Stiles also does the other thing that infuriates me and save the last dance, which is not her fault, but with the worst. The dancing on the table scene. Oh, because that's great. I know. I know.

I was thinking about that. It is actually what got her cast and saying the last dance. I made a joke about that when I watched it, but it's true. Great. Yep. It's not her fault. Whoever did Save the Last Dance did not do any research about how to

make people look like they're actually dancing and her body double work is horrendous. So she gets to do both things that infuriate me in this time period. What about starting the movie with the bare naked ladies? How does that infuriated? I love that. Okay, it's great because...

Again, just love that energy. Like, I was just like, yes, let's go. Let's go back to this time period. And they immediately do the thing where they show you, she's different because she's listening to Joan Jet instead. She listens to Joe Jet. But she's just like exactly,

she pulls up just another beautiful model-esque blonde girl. Oh, yeah. But she has a different radio station on, and that radio station is playing Joan Jet. Yeah, it is. And she's friends with Maureen from Center Stage, so you know that she's a bitch. By the way, ironically, again,

I don't know if it's ironic, but she is in one of the best body double dance movie center stage, which they did a fantastic job. of blending the dancer with the actor which they did not do and say the last dance. No, they did not.

No, they did not. But 10 things I hate about you is... I know you guys are slowly close. You guys are like slowly closing like you don't care. I could care about body double dancers. But I do care about 10 things I hate about you a 1999 romantic comedy film

directed by Gil Younger and was a breakout film for the young actors Julius Stiles, Heath Ledger, and Joseph Gordon Levitt. and also starring Larissa Olenick, but she didn't quite have this explosive career that the other three did. But she was everywhere in the 90s, yeah. And she still is.

Yeah. I actually, did you guys look into her at all because it was interesting to see how her career went? She's mysterious. She doesn't do social media, but she still acts now all the time. She's still doing it? I love them people can hold it down like that.

Yeah. It was written by Karen McCullough Lutz and Kirsten Smith and is a modernization of William Shakespeare's comedy play the Taming of the Shrews. The Taming of the Shrew. Set in a 90s American High School. And it is about a new student

who immediately crushes on a girl, but in order to get around her father-strick dating rules, he tries to set up his bad boy buddy with the girl's ill-tempered sister. And yes, so this was definitely not a movie. I mean, it was on my radar for sure, but I definitely didn't watch it until the preparation for this episode, and I was quite charmed by it.

Absolutely. I think it's very funny, Taming of the Shrew, which we're about to get into, obviously comes with its own set of issues, for sure. It's this funny. It's like one of the more problematic, famous Shakespeare plays, I would say, that has not necessarily withstood the test of time. Though I will say in terms of Taming the Shrew,

and I think I talked about this in our Romeo and Juliet episode, like weird Shakespeare. It was tongue in cheek. In the air laying. Like, even back then, the idea of the Shrew was based in, like, it was a, it's supposed to be a joke of like, oh, this shrew who speaks her mind. But even in the play, she's not even speaking her mind.

She's kind of also awful in the play. But she doesn't deserve what is. It's supposed, it's a jape. Yes. It's a comedy. Like that's, so when people are like, ah, it's misogynistic. Like, that's the joke. That's a part of it.

Well, I saw a production of it at the Globe Theater, which went down as one of the greatest Shakespeare performances I ever saw live. And they really made it come to life in this really charming way. And I think they make it come to life in a really charming way. coming way here as well. And I think the trend of the time, especially after Clueless, was let's get these old properties and update them in a modern day high school and see what happens. And this is the kind of the second wave of that that Clueless started. But I think one of the better examples of an application of an adaptation to a modern, of an old classic work to a modern day

high school. And also because they all went into it wanting to not just make a rom-com. And that was something that, like, all of them, like, even when Joseph Gordon Ledavit was talking about going in for the audition for it, he was just like, I don't want to do a rom-com. This is not what I want. And Heath Ledger came in and just, he brought such a higher level of acting into it that everybody rose to his level. And that's so insane.

And not in, like, a weird way, not in a way that, like, reading about them making this film made me want to be on a film set so bad. I know. I haven't acted in such a long time. There was like, man, that camaraderie, the feeling of like, fuck yeah, we're making something cool together, guys. Yeah. That's why that Julia Seiles performance, not that she's even like in a lot of the other

things, I feel like she was given more softballs in other movies that she's done. But like, she rose to the fucking occasion. And also, she got to shh up Heath Ledger. Yeah. And if you watch the bloopers during the credits roll, very horny. set. All of the pranks are just them all pretending to kiss each other. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, no, they're all.

But they just seemed like they had a summer of fun. Oh, it seemed like a blast. If you ever did like a summer stock or a this kind of thing. Yeah, like it definitely had that vibe to it. For sure. Like that Joseph Gordon-Levett was nervous about kissing Larissa Olenek because

they were friends at that point. And so they would rehearse the scene and by the time they had to kiss they're like, oh, Jesus, okay. I mean, I imagine it would be like me having to kiss you, Holden. I can't even imagine. It'd be horrible. It'd be a nightmare.

Nightmare. Fucking nightmare. So let's talk about the taming of the true for a second. Shakespeare's play is about the courtship of Petruc and Katerina, a headstrong Shrew, which is a comedic stock character in literature and folklore that depicts an unpleasant, ill-tempered woman characterized by scolding, nagging, and aggression. Wow. Wow.

Holden. Looking right at both of us. Yeah. That's what we do. A more modern term for this archetype would be maybe Battleax or Dragon Lady or Arphe. Dragon Lady. Initially, Catarina is an unwilling participant in the relationship.

However, Patricio, quote, tames her with various psychological torments, such as keeping her from eating and drinking until she becomes a desirable, compliant, and obedient bride. I will say it is very similar to the place. Zilis. Some of the differences is that in the play, he, like, Petrucchio is so interested in money, which, of course, is Patrick, very similar. Patrick Verona.

Don't know if you can catch it. That Patrick also does what he does for money, and Petrucchio is in it for the dowry and the status. So at the top, rather than just going on dates, he straight up marries the shrew, and then they fall in love after they get married, after he gets his dowry. after they're all nice and rich. So also the class systems in that are portrayed in the movie, which I feel like they don't even get into it too much except for cars, which I found interesting. That outside of it, because you notice like they're not really outside of like Bogie

Lowenstein. They're not really showing a whole lot of people's houses. It's obvious that the sisters are well off. Man, that's a nice house too. It's a fucking great house. That's a wrap around poor child. I'd like to know. Oh my God.

That's the sad thing watching movies now as an adult. I'm like, oh, I would love to sit on that. Oh, the real estate. Oh, and so that is a big difference between the two. But other than that, it is straight up very, very similar. Except that the idea of the definition of the shrew is now updated of just a bitch who listens to Joan Chat. And she's got things to fucking sell. A real fucking dragon lady, if you ask this guy.

But actually just not really because then when she goes to, what's it called? the skunk. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's just, it's just frail supermodel supermodel

blonde white women all in one club together. I guess no men go to a club where a woman singing. Lilithair Club.

Yeah, it's like the Lilith Fair embodied. So she's not actually rock and roll. She's like an she's more angry about

her trauma, which is weird to think of now as an adult of having gone through that kind of shit. It's like, oh, man, all that shit makes more sense now because she was fake. I mean, she was real angry. But, like, even what Mr. Morgan brings up up at the top of like, but you have every,

like your life is not that hard. Yeah. Why are you so angry? It's like, oh, because of what she went through. So wait, I was originally watching it again and I was thinking it was the old dead mommy, but it's, mom left. Mom left. She walked out.

So that's also, like, that's another thing of like how angry. So it's like the fact that like her sleeping with Andrew Kiken and her mom leaving. Yeah. I feel like that that is a whole other trauma that kids. That's a very different kind of trauma. I mean, that's horrible. I wonder what her mom's doing. That she pieced.

And you also got to think like when her younger sister was in middle school and she was, what, a sophomore or a freshman? She said ninth. Yeah. She lost her freshman. Yeah. And like that she would just piece the fuck out. Like that's dramatic as far. Right.

Right. Especially, you know, definitely going into this. I thought, you know, yeah, you're gonna watch this, like, 90s high school movie. You're like, oh, she's just gonna be a bitch. Like, for no, you know what I mean? She's just this thing. And then it's like, no, there's, like, actual real motivation. And that motivation came from a script written by Kristen Smith and Karen McCullough.

Kristen Smith grew up on a sailboat without a TV, so she spent a lot of her childhood writing. Like you do. Like you do. And eventually she worked as a clerk at a video store. then moved to Los Angeles to study English and film at college. She actually used screenwriting as a way to financially support her poetry career. She ended up working at an indie film company as a director of development where she read a ton of scripts, which is how she met Karen McCullough and the two end up forming a creative partnership together.

McCullough was an army brat that, McCullough, rather, was an army brat that traveled all over the world through childhood. While in high school, she kept a diary and in it she had an entry titled 10, I hate about Anthony. Anthony, which was her boyfriend at the time. McCullough said, I had a boyfriend named Anthony that I was frequently unhappy with. I made a list called Things I Hate About Anthony. Anthony is very proud of that fact. We are still friends today, and even now and then I'll get a random phone call in the

middle of the night. My nephew doesn't believe that this title is about me. Tell him on the phone. I'm like, yes, I hated Anthony in high school. She joins a sorority in college, and this would actually later provide a lot of material. For her other fantastic films, House Bunny and Legally Blonde, which is, yes. And Legally Blonde is great. Legally Blonde's also great. That's what I love too is that for both of them writing together, they say, I think our legacy is just these fearless, funny,

female characters who are sort of radical by their confidence. They're changing the world even though they don't really know that they're doing it. And also, the way that they wrote this movie is insane. They were writing separately. And like the only times that they would get together when they were writing this movie was on a beach in Mexico, but they had started writing the script on a cocktail napkin. And I just, sounds like they had a real fun time. They're just like,

they're just like, literally drinking cocktails on the beach. It was like, yeah, let's write this fucking movie, and apparently they like beat out the plot like on, on the beach drinking margaritas. At a timeshare. Yeah, yeah.

But you should try doing that more. I know. Where is LPN's Mexican timeshare? Please. We need on top of this. Princess Smith said there was such a big teen movie explosion at the time. We were young writers who had never sold a script before and it was very unusual. You would get your first script made, let alone greenlit six months after it was optioned.

It's crazy. That is actually crazy. It had this feeling all around of firsts. And of course, yeah, they're seeing what Clueless is doing. They're like, we can totally do that same thing. I also enjoyed this line when someone was comparing Clueless and Ten Things that, where Clueless chooses to embrace and massage the moral of a man who teaches her a lesson about herself by making everyone involved ridiculous, 10 Things decides to turn the anger of Shakespeare's

heroin inward in order to grapple with his misogyny head on. Like watching the back-to-back, there's so many, like, thesees out there comparing Clueless with Ten Things I Hate About You because it is, which we'll get into with the costuming later, it is a more grounded version, which of course, it's still a teen movie. There's still the huge bogey Lowenstein party and all that kind of shit, but it is way more grounded in reality

whereas Clueless was more bombastic and both are so much fucking fun in very different ways. Yeah, and they do have that, both have that open, well not both opening, but that scene where they're like, this is where this group sets.

Yes. And that's for the other one. Totally. In fact, I felt like that was in a way a little off from the rest of the fifth. It was. Yeah.

Because I think they really did get away from the high school movie tropes in a lot of ways throughout this movie. They almost busted that out right away at the top of the movie. But it was interesting. To kind of bring you in almost to kind of trick you into thinking you're watching just another fun high school movie. And then they take it to different direction. It was boys this time, which is interesting. But they did the same like walk and talk thing. But also I think that it is the idea of like the Joseph Gordon Levitt character was one that I think was always showing.

is just like such a war. Like the Ducky where I feel like Ducky was never given any kind of respect and I love that Joseph Gordon Leavitt brought a realness of like, no, I'm not just like this desperate loser. I am a full person. I just happen to be younger and not Andrew Keegan.

Yeah. You know? For sure. Definitely not my cup of sexually speaking, but I get people love him. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I was more like Third Rock from the Sun though that's what I love third rock

from this song. It's a great show. A great show. That is such an underrated. I would watch it every with my dad and we were like, why is no one talking about the show this is the best show at TV? Oh, I used to watch that all this. So funny.

It's on Hulu now because I still watching it. So good Jane Curtin. Oh, I love. Stuart French. All right, here's the case. I think it's French Stewart. I think it's French Stewart. I mean, those are interchangeable.

Regardless. No, I used to call him Stuart French because I wanted to French. I was 11 years old and I wanted to have sex with French Stuart. And we named out the cast of Third Rock for the Sun on purpose because now it's time to talk about the cast of 10 things I hate about you. Whoa, I thought we were going to talk about the director. But wait, I didn't want to talk about Thur Rock from the Sun more.

Because I really appreciated that she was a tall woman in the show. Yes, that was a very good part of it as well. Yes, the director, I will quickly say this was Gil Youngers, Jungers. Is it Junger or Younger? I'm going to say Junker. Junker. Gild Junker's directorial debut in his most known work.

However, he did go on to direct a slew of movies and television including episodes of Blossom and Allen. Junger said, I had no interest in doing a typical high school film. I wanted to do a romantic love story, but at the urging of my agent, I read the script, I loved it.

The depth of it surprised me. It really is a romantic love story. The plot is beautifully interwoven and the humor works because it comes from the characters. Well, and what I love to is that the script was, like, after it got picked up, It landed at Disney. And the choice between the teen movies at Disney was going to choose that year

was between 10 things and a script called School Slut. And so they did a rewrite. And Disney, yeah, yeah, yeah. Disney didn't understand why Cat was such an angry character. What? Wait, hang on. You can't just slip past that. School slut.

What? There was a script called School Slut. Surprisingly, it got passed on. Did we, had we ever seen the script? No, no. Unfortunately, we're backing up the truck for a dead in. There's not a whole lot else on it. No, there's nothing on school slut.

I'm sure it's so bad that they just... They were upset that Julia Stiles' character was angry, but they were almost making a movie called School Slut. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just checking. Smith said all teenagers are angry. And McCullough added, they didn't understand sometimes as a teenage girl. You're just angry at the bullshit you have to put up with.

So now that they're working with Disney, Disney executives, were gently encouraging Junker to cast the Dawson Creek stars. They wanted the entire movie to be cast with Dawson Creek. They wanted James Vanderbeek and they wanted Katie Holmes. And they were really pushing him. But Junker was like, my mantra was, I'm not going to shoot a high school movie. I want to shoot a movie about people in relationships

who happened to be in high school. So he wanted to separate himself from a show that was just about teenage relationships. I would also add, like, you probably are going to talk about this, but I think David Krumholtz added a level of adult, not like sexual, but like a level of maturity in a weird way. It's kind of funny to say that because I'll say the quote later, but even Joseph Gordon-Levitt said like, I started talking like him,

and by the end of the shoot, everybody in the cast was talking like an old Jewish man from East to New York. So I think, yes, that is another just quote to go along with. There's something old, yeah, there's this funny. older sensibility about him. That's what really his comedy comes from. Yeah, it gets my pan. His jutes.

His comedy comes from being this very young-looking guy and talking and acting like an old Jewish man. He's not actually values. Yeah. And save with the Santa Claus. That was his thing. Totally. That's his thing. And it's so charming, though. It totally works.

It's very cute. I love Jewish men. Can you tell? Yes. Thank you. So for the cast, we start off with Larissa Olenick. I remember being pretty smitten with it right away. The script was unabashed.

feminist and really of the Riot Girl era of the Pacific Northwest. But they didn't use any real right. Ola Nick was raised in the San Francisco Bay Area and got into auditioning early, first acting in a production of Les Mez. Le Mezrable. In 1989, at just eight years old, and after that, she was taking action class. Which means she was probably Cosette, and that makes sense. Sure, absolutely.

And going on more auditions with her first TV show spot on Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman at the age of 12. Damn. She got the starring role the same year on a Nickelodeon show called The Secret World of Alex Mac. Oh, yeah. So good. So, yeah, what's the deal with Secret World of Alex Mac? Give me the skinny.

Wait, you never watched it? No, I think I was again, a little too old. No way. Henry was obsessed with Alex Mack. I don't know. Oh, yeah. I never watched it. I also didn't have cable upstairs.

And you know what? Sometimes when you're a child, if you don't have cable upstairs, you end up missing out on like a whole chunk of Nickelodeon. Whoa, whoa, whoa. This was like primetime snick show. Things. Exactly. They were watching. They had the TV during primetime. They had their shows. They weren't allowed to watch SNCC. They were watching the sporting matches during those hours. I hate the sporting matches. I did too back then. That's why I hated sports to like after college. She turns into a puddle. She becomes a sort of like member of T-1000 in Terminator 2. She becomes a puddle. Basically the same thing. But she literally becomes a ball. I forget why she does. But it was like an experiment. She touched something and then she went to a puddle. She was like one of the door. It was one of those shows. that appealed to both boys and girls because it was about girls, but she was sort of like

a tomboy who was also one you wanted to like, like kiss. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It almost sounds like Ghost Rider. Oh, yeah, it is. It is. Essence of Ghost Rider vibes. Yeah, Ghost Rider vibes. Which was a lot of fun.

I enjoyed that show. Because that was on PBS and you can watch upstairs. Oh my God, this is making sense now, Walton. The Secret World of Alex Mack, which opened the doors for her over the next few years to be on other Nick shows and the like and was a teen star already when she got 10 things. Olinick said, I auditioned for both Kat and Bianca pretty much up until the very end and I really wanted Kat. I think I was so obsessed with wanting to prove to them that that's who I was that by the time

I'd get to the Bianca stuff, I'd be like, oh yeah, whatever, sure. And I'm sure that's why it worked because I was super relaxed about it. It's so true. You only get the stuff you don't give a fuck about it. So we got that talk about commercial. That's how you do it. I just was like, I'm over this whole commercial audition thing. Damn you get it.

There you go. And that still is paying dividends. It's not. It was a digital only release, and that's how they get you. Joseph Gordon Levitt said, if I'm really honest, I didn't want to do a high school romantic comedy. I wanted to do Sundance movies. I'm very lucky that five years later I got to do that. The truth is, I was a naive or stuck up 17-year-old.

So that's why I'm hoping, which it does seem that, like, he came in snooty boots. Yeah. And he realized, like, oh, hey. Or I can have fun. You kind of see that transformation in the movie a little bit. And I do wonder where it's like, you know, I know that not soon after it must have been he did movies like brick and stuff like that. That I think that having a time of levity and reminding yourself that you're a teenager. Joseph Gordon Levity, yes.

Oh, no. He did it. He did go on to play What's His Name in Five of a Days of Summer, which is a movie that makes me nuts, but I still watch constantly. I enjoy that movie. That was one of those ones that I missed out on. It's fun. It's so magical pixie girl, Zoe Dachnell era. I begged a lot of people that were obsessed with Zoe D.

Chanel in the movie. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm just an alcoholic. That makes sense. You remind me so much of Zoe Dachiannell. I know everyone's, oh, it's like, you know, Kriky cute. Boopie, boopie. That's me. That was one of those movies where when it first came out, he was supposed to be like the,

but the protagonist, and then over time you realize, oh, no, he's, sucked. Yeah. And, like, Joseph Gordon-Levitt has actually commented on that being like, he was the wrong. He was wrong. Yeah, he was wrong.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that is the way in a lot of these movies. And I actually like that this is, um, money, like bribery base. Like the fact that he wasn't just like, no, no, no, I'm going to go after her whether she wants me to or not,

Twilight. Um, but I, it is more of like, okay, well, not that it makes it, I think it does make it better because like, well,

he's being bribed to do it. And he's not just, not taking no. But we were raised in a situation, like in a society where it made me want that. I wanted someone that was like, I don't care if you say no. I lost for you regardless.

And that's not okay. No. We were told that it was like what you want. Yeah, we were told that that was the best option. But if it's Heath Ledger, I will say I never had that from Heath Ledger. I never had that, oh my God, the curls. Oh, right.

We're not going to keep yet. And you're gonna, it's gonna make you cry at the end of the episode. He's dead. He's got such loose, beautiful curls and Julius Stiles is stuck with that like Jelius, tight, pointy tail the whole time. See, but that was the time period, though,

when you either crunched geled your hair or you flat ironed it to death, which is what I did. Oh, did she crunched gel. I used to flat iron it and then flip it up at the ends. So they're gonna have a little, little flip. Just a little bit of a flip. So you could show you,

mostly busy. and it's spent a little bit of flirt. A little bit of flirt. At 11 years old, yeah. Born and raised in Los Angeles, Gordon Leva was approached by an agent to do TV and commercials after performance as the Scarecrow

in a production of The Wizard of Oz at the very young age of four. That is young. He was appearing regularly and made for TV films by the age of six. But really got his career going on the sitcom Third Rock from the Sun,

which ran for six seasons. We named all the actors. A little bit earlier. We didn't name the characters. We didn't talk about all of it. Or them either. We know. We didn't talk about.

Joseph Gordon. Or I'm sorry. What's his name? So good. The man. It's crazy. John. John.

No, god damn. What's that man's the name? John Let's go. John Lived go. So he originally, Joseph Gordon Levitt, went in for David Krumholt's role. In fact, he didn't want to be Cameron.

He wanted to be Michael. David Krumholz's role. This is already so high school play, by the way. It really is. Yeah. Everybody else's part. That was the same with Larissa Olenek, who wanted to be Katz.

She wanted to be. She wanted to be. She wanted to be cat, she didn't want to be Bianca. She wanted to be cat. And so you're coming into this already of like, man, a wish I could have been that. Which, I know that that's not what they were intending to do. That is high school. It's like, man, I wish I had straight hair.

No, I wish I had curly hair. Like you always want what other people have. I say that's what teenagers do. That's what human beings, too. And that is what social media is all about. And maybe that's why we're tapping into this being something more special than a lot of the other high school movies. or yeah, high school movies out there around this time. Like even Can Hardly Wait, like I'm sure we'll probably do that movie.

I love Can Hardly Wait. And I do like it too, but that's very much like. But that's very much like caricatures of high school kids. I think that 10 things you think it's going to be like that. And then you get into it and you're like, oh, wow, these are like real high school kids. Yeah. There's like a dynamic here between the actors.

Yeah. Because then you realize like the role of Bianca is not just like, oh, she's the popular girl that gets everything. It's like, no, she's also trying to deal with the trial. of her mother leaving and her sister changing and not knowing why her sister changed. So she's just trying to be the perfect version of what she could.

And their dad is constantly sexually shaming them, but it's because he's terrified that they're going to leave him. Like it's also, then you think about that too where it's like he doesn't want her to go to an East Coast school because he doesn't want her to leave him the way his fucking wife is. Absolutely.

It's crazy. I also feel like they do a good job of the like popular quote unquote perfect girl fucking up. realizing her fuck up and like going back on it in a way that other movies don't do well that I totally remember from high school happening. You know what I mean? And it just made her more realistic as opposed to her just being like, mean girl.

You know, she's just mean girl. Andrew Geegan, like, disses her at the party and she's straight up like, no, I don't want to be with this guy. I mean, I don't know me with a guy that's nice to me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And not just at the very end. Right.

That it actually happened, you know, halfway through the movie. where I think it did make them more well-rounded characters. Actually, if we're going to get into that kind of structural thing, I'll also really quickly give a nice nod to them not spinning the entire third act on her realizing that he was set up to be with her and then her being mad at him for an entire third act and then him figuring out how to figure that out. I was so ready for that beat. And I was like, I hate that they always do this.

This is where it's going. And then instead it was just this tiny little scene. And like, that was it, essentially. and we were really more dealing with this romantic relationship. And that was really refreshing, honestly, like, even for now. And also part of her story arc is her getting into, like, a college and not just being with her boyfriend. Yes. Yes.

And, you know, and yeah. And him having nothing to do with that. Yeah. There wasn't the studying together montage. It's like, I'm coming with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because always in those stories, like, what's that? The one, I love it.

The one with John Cusack from the 80s. Oh. Say anything. Say anything. I love saying anything, but it's like, I always just want to be like to the girl, no, let him stay home. Wonderful Ione Sky. That's another one of those. I wanted to talk about a sexual awakening. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Both of them. We've definitely mentioned like a few future episodes already in the works. So Julia Stiles said, I remember thinking the screenplay was so cool and I just loved the heart of cats so much.

I was dying to get the role. I had been reading the Taming of the Shrew in school and it was the first time I had, read a romantic comedy script that captured teenage angst in such a clever way. She grew up in NYC and started acting at 11 years old. I kind of love this because she definitely is like the East Coast one, you know? I guess also what's his name, Crumholtz. But like she has this like East Coast energy.

I feel like she brings in. Unlike, you know, and the West Coasters are very West Coast. You know, just weaker all around. Physically, mentally, just in every way weaker. And Julia, Julia Stiles was up against. Kate Hudson, Katie Holmes, and Eliza Dushku. And Kate Hudson was very close to getting this role. I could see her in that part, actually.

But Junger went on to say most of the girls came into audition wearing sexy clothes. Julia came in wearing baggy pants and a t-shirt, hair up in a bun. She wasn't working the look how pretty I am, angle. When she shook my hand and looked into my eyes, I was struck by a depth and maturity. This combined with her poise was formidable.

And I, and Junger went on to say, the character of Cat, I just wanted to say to kids, it's okay to not change or adjust who you are to feel connected to everyone else. Basically, don't behave in a way to make other people like you. Behave in a way that's true to who you are. To be honest, I always thought of it as a female empowerment film. So when I met Julia, forget it.

She was exactly who Cat was. Just the way she shook my hand. I was like, this isn't a girl. This is a young woman to be taken seriously. Her first film role was in 1996 in a romantic comedy called, I love you, I love you not, starring Claire Daines and Jude Law, but her breakout was as the lead in a film called Wicked, which apparently made her, quote, the darling of the 1998 Sundance Film Festival, in quote, according to a prominent critic. I don't know. That sounds interesting.

I don't know. I looked up like a poster for it. It was like, oh, like, maybe I remember that. I'm not really sure. I'm surprised I didn't pull the synopsis for this, but, yeah, seems interesting. And now let's get to the sexy but also sad part. Heath Ledger. Gil Junger said Heath walked in

and I thought to myself, if this guy can read, I'm going to cast him. This guy can read out. I just love it because... I think he means this like read copy. Read well because that's like, yeah, so if he can read,

it really was... And this guy's literate. It's because he's like looking for someone he needed to be... Junger said he needed to be masculine without trying to be masculine. He needed to be smart, but needed to be removed.

He needed to be unbelievably charming. It's a very complicated role. Sure. Which is, that's hard. for a teen rom-com. Yeah, and very rarely do they nail it with those actors in that part. And Junger said there was an energy to him, a sexuality that was palpable. When Heath was done literally with the first page, I said, okay, you can put down the script,

you're doing great, I want to do a little improv with you. I just wanted to see how fast his mind would adapt comedically. After 35 seconds, I said, okay, fantastic. But I could tell he was nervous that he blew it because the audition was so quick. And I said, no, no, no, you're a very talented guy. and I really appreciate you coming in. The instant the door closed, I turned to the woman in the room and said,

ladies, I have never wanted to sleep with a man, but if I had to sleep with a man, that would be the man. Please cast him immediately. And he was a man at that point, technically. He was 19 at the time, so it's fine. But also again, he just, and we'll see this again

when they're talking about how close the cast had become, because Heath Ledger got there because this is his first American movie, or first lead in American movie. And he got there like five days after everyone had already become like super, super close friends. But you do when you're like stuck in an entire. And it's a really funny quote about how they were like worried about him coming in and like messing everything up. Yeah, but even David Kremel said the second we all met him, we knew.

He was a gracious, cool man with a deeply empathetic heart and the greatest smile, a dedicated actor capable of anything. And he knew it. He was the most confident actor I've ever met. with no ego trip. It's funny because I now, I feel like we've read so many interviews of people talking about Heath Ledger

and it's like straight up, I feel like they always begin of like, I'm not even just saying this because he's dead. It's not just like, oh, we're glorifying him. That is just who he was. And that's such a beautiful thing to experience. Can you imagine that young,

being around someone that's your age that put together and be like, I gotta fucking step up. My life is insane. Sure. You know it's really wild, not really completely on this topic, but I was looking up his daughter because I forgot that he had a kid with Michelle Williams and she's essentially the age to play these parts. Yeah, she's old now. She's older now.

Wow. Insane. Ledger grew up in Western Australia. His parents divorced when he was young and his actress sister is who inspired him to get into stage acting while his love of Gene Kelly inspired a love for dancing. He got his high school diploma early at the age of 16 so that he could go off. and pursue acting, and his first work came via the Australian TV series clowning around as well as sweat, while his first feature film role was in 1997 in the Australian film Black Rock before getting 10 things. His performance was based on Richard Burton's portrayal of Petruchio in a film version of Taming the Shrew,

but he, and I see this now after hearing this description, but he threw in, quote, a Jack Nicholson edge to him with his cheekiness and his smiles. I completely see it. Totally see it. It just kills it with this. We'll have more on Heath later, and it is a little gut-wrenching the way some of his castmates describe him since his passing. But we'll get there. I love Giljonger also went on to say that he asked him to include little bits of his Aussie accent into the role.

So he, like, it wasn't that, which I now noticed because I was looking for it, that it's like, oh, is he going in and out of an Aussie accent? No, he wanted him to be as if he, like, the idea of, okay, you moved here years ago. but so you still have kind of the accent but you're going to assimilate a little bit but you wouldn't want to so it's bringing that level of depth into which that's again a crazy direction to be given

for a teen rom-com and he did it with flying colors and yeah and they do mention it in that he has a line where he says I moved from Australia when I was 10 yes so it's like a half and half so he couldn't do full Aussie but not full American we also mentioned some of these actors before but just shout outs

to Larry Miller who plays Kat and Bianca's father. I think he does a great job. Andrew Kagan, who plays the narcissistic aspiring model Joey, and he started a cult. Also, I do love Andrew Kagan based his character off of Marky Mark, because Marky Mark was a big deal back then. And he says, but watching it now, I realize I come off a little more Fabia. Yes. A little bit. A little bit. David Krumholtz, of course, plays Michael, the nerd who helps Cameron Wu Bianca. And his love interest, Mandela is played by Susan May Pratt, a Shakespeare nerd. Center stage.

Also, I made this joke, or I didn't make this joke. I was like, it's always fine to me. Like, I feel like they always cast like the nerd girl or whatever is always like the hottest girl. Oh, yeah. Like, in this case, Elise, it's like, oh, she's the best to be like the loser. The loser. Yeah, the stunning model. Yes.

Yeah, she's beautiful. Gabrielle Union, who plays Bianca's best franticity. And a bitch. And a bitch and a lava. Cheryl Mitchell, who plays Mr. Morgan, the English class teacher. He's awesome. film, yes. And lastly,

speaking of another hero with the film, Allison Janke. And I love. Kills it as the high school guidance counselor that's writing erotic fan, erotic fiction

on the side. Yeah. I don't think this character would fly in modern teen movies, but she's great at it. And also, Gil Junker was very big

into allowing them to improvise and bring in whatever they wanted into their own characters. So a lot of what Allison Janie said was improvised. And that makes me love

even more. She's the like, cat, meow, thing that she does with the mug. And she was just so, she actually was asked in an interview and she completely forgot that she was in this.

And I imagine if you've done as much as she has done. I love her so much. And I, like, insane. But what about Bogey Lowenstein? Can we just talk about Bowie Loganstein for a second? Because apparently the casting of Bogey Loenstein

was like such a thing. They all were obsessed with Bogey Loenstein on the set because he came in in the audition. and was like the first person cast off the bat. So this comedian already had a character that was a bit of a golf pro-ey-zodd-wearing motherfucker. So he said quite a bit of the cornyness and the cheesiness of Bogie Lowen scene came from this kind of lounge-lizurdy character that I created in my stand-up. I just walked into the 10 Things audition, winking and pointing at the director like I was a game show host.

I did this kind of cheesy laugh after each line. I do remember having to take a month of golf lessons. I had a professional golfer Teach me how to chip for a month And I had to see him three days a week For that one shot And that's very funny Honestly, that's actually just awesome

That's free golf lessons I know, I love. Any character you get free lessons of them Just like, please. Learn anything, I'll learn whatever, I don't care Well either way, this crew was truly a tight-knit bunch David Krumholt said On the very first night, the cast

Some as Young as 17, congregated at our hotel's restaurant for an inaugural kickoff dinner. By night's end, it was clear that this would be a transformative experience for all of us. I had only made a few films by that point and often found myself working with older actors, not ones of my generation. This was a chance to work with my peers. And as only Kismet would allow, I found myself getting along famously with my castmates. As you said, a ledger hadn't showed up just yet.

Krumholt said we had only heard stories from the producers about the disarming charisma of a hen. handsome Aussie from Perth with an infectious smile who was busy completing his work in an Australian TV series called Roar. By the end of the week, week one, we had all established such strong friendships. We were worried about how someone named Heath could possibly manage to find his place in our inner circle. This is a concern that remained a few days later when he arrived and we found yet another comrade in sensibility. The group with Heath only got stronger. And yeah, this is another one from Crumholtz. Before I knew what the cast was experiencing,

what I've since found to be all too rare. A unified chemistry throughout the ensemble without a single bad apple in the bunch. The experience was communal. It sang like a well-tuned chorus, both on-screen and off, and we all agreed that we were having the best summer of our lives.

Oh, my gosh. I left my stuff, but I read that quick, because I was like, I always make that joke, and he's legitimately saying it in a real way. You bet it fucking was. I mean, I know the best summer in my life probably, sort of for my child. At least that version of it, like, that you scream, this is the best summer of our lives. I think, O3 summer.

Here comes the goo part two. Wow, you remember it specifically. It was such a fun, easy summer. It was like I didn't have classes. I didn't have anything. I had this summer hookup. I had this awesome comedy show I was doing with all my friends. I woke up every day was a new adventure.

It was the best. Yeah, but did Joseph Gordon Levitt turn you on to fish? Because that's what happened to David Crummelt. The band? That Joseph Gordon Levitt turned David Crummelts on to fish. And David Crummelt's turned Joseph Gordon Levitt onto Wooten. And their little relationship and their little like broship mix. Because you can see it on screen.

They were obviously like laughing to each other and then we just like shoot a scene. Yeah, totally. Oh my God. I want this film experience. I know I miss it. I love some of these little moments. can cut out and talk about the drunken table dance. Stiles hadn't ever been drunk before.

She was just 17. I'd been drunk quite a bit before I was 17. I started drinking anything I was 15. So Ledger gave her tips on what being drunk looked and felt like. Yeah, I better give her tips on. All right. Junger was going to get a choreographer to work with Julia Stiles. They should have, because they have like intimacy coaches and stuff.

Can I have drunk coaches? Because I'll do that. Inebration coaches. Inebration coach. And yeah, that's the thing of the coach. which always has to be hammered too on set to make sure that they're like being staying accurate. Junker was going to get a choreography to work with Julia Stiles.

She was actually, he was good friends with Paula Abdul actually. But Stiles just said, that's fine, but I can dance. And did the whole thing herself. Stiles said, I would never have the guts to do that now. I'm glad somebody got that on film. I mean, I love dancing, but sort of provocatively on a table. I was pretty guileless at that point. That is very embarrassing.

And very high school, like, very like, I can't believe I was like, I can dance. I can do it myself. But it works for that scene. It does. She's awkward. She's goofy. Right.

She doesn't look like a professional dancer when she's doing it. And also she doesn't look like a professional dancer when she plays one later on and save the last time. Oh, right, please. I like that about that movie I've never seen. Next, I can't take my eyes off you. Originally, they had, I think I love you as the song Ledger's character sings to Cat from the bleachers during practice. This was changed to I touch myself, which would have been way dumb. Yeah, super dumb.

Different tone. Right? However, Heath Ledger felt that wasn't romantic. Yeah, on any level, is that not romantic? Yeah, when I masturbate you. He is the one who chose the Frankie Valley Classic. Can't take my eyes off you. Of course he did, because he's perfect, and he also chose what he wore for it.

He chose what he wore for it. Because even Kristen Smith said he was so specific about what he wanted to wear, it had to be this certain type of dark shirt with a precise fit. oddly, it's kind of a nondescript ensemble when you actually watch the movie, but seeing him architect that costume is part of his preparation was so impressive, especially because he was only 19, that that's, because I think he was nervous about, because he never acted silly before.

That's just not in his nature. So he needed to construct the costume, and then he chose the song so that he could have more of a control over the situation. And in fact, he even the choreographer went in, And he said the, what impressed him the most is that he sang the song himself. And he said, the singing impressed me more than anything else because as a choreographer, I can always find a way to make actors look amazing, but singing, that's something you can't fake. And he was very nervous about singing the song, too.

And it makes me love him even more. But it worked again in that he didn't sound like an opera singer. Like he sounds like a kid, hesitating a girl he likes. and I think it's really charming. And I also love the police chase, which is cute now, but now when I see that, I'm like, you can't, they're going to shoot you. But then I like that he spanks the cop.

Junger said, I said to Heath, just run around the steps when the guards start to chase you. Right after the first take, the nurse on set ran up to one of the guards. They were fearful. He might have pushed himself almost to a heart attack. Heath was running with such joy that it physically exhausted the guards. That's so cute.

So cute. Cute. Well, also what's cute? That poem at the end. The emotions in that scene were not planned. It just hit Stiles in the moment. Stiles said it had been such an emotional role and such a wonderful experience that I was overjoyed and probably sad it was coming to an end. But I also was just in a very raw place.

Junger said that, quote, basically the whole speech was one shot. Stiles said, quote, I remember Heath when they turned. I love this quote. When they turned around to do his reaction shot, he said something like, I don't need do anything because this isn't about me. A lot of times you get one actor crying in a scene and the other actor feels they have to cry, like they have to cry. And he knew to be sort of restrained.

I thought that was really cool. I think that's really cool as well. I think that's really, really brilliant comment on like acting and sharing a scene together. Junger said, I did everything I could to cover my mouth and nose because I was crying so hard. It was such an amazing performance. That take in the film is the first take. I think I jumped up and just hugged her for the longest time. It's very well done.

Henry and I both couldn't help but notice watching this. If you were seeing this from the perspective of a teacher, watching a kid do this for class, you'd be like, Jesus Christ. Don't do this. All right, you get a B. Next. Can you not?

And I also, I imagine what really affected a lot of not only the shooting, but the acting in this is that there were no sets used during the entire shoot. All of it. So this was supposed, this place, this high school was supposed to be just used for the exterior shots. And when they went to go check it out that they, because like how clueless also used a real high school, they realized that it did, if they wanted them to be grounded, that they should be shooting in the actual space. So they were in the middle of already building sets in L.A. And they were like, wait, wait, wait, wait, we want to shoot it all up there.

So everything, the last minute, had to be moving the shoot up to Seattle where the high school was shot because even like the scene between Joseph Gordon Levitt and Larissa Olenek when they were talking about Kat in front of that beautiful artistic statue that it's like those are just places that they found.

That it's like, we don't have to build anything. And that last shot, which we'll talk about. Well, yeah. I mean, the rooftop. That school is crazy looking. It's beautiful. And that, oh my God, and where he was singing the, Can't Take My Eyes Off You?

Yeah. But, like, stunning. Go fucking watch. Yeah, why would you want to build a set if you have a location like that, you know? Yeah. So everything had to be moved up there, like, like, weeks before the shoot was supposed to take place. I think it was the good choice. Yeah.

Also, the soundtrack's a lot of fun. It's a bit of a time capsule for music in 1999. You've got Save Ferris, Simi Sonic, Sister Hazel, the card. and a little out of place, but very fun in the party scene, George Clinton's Atomic Dog. Great. But the band that is actually part of the movie in a few places is letters to Cleo, which was totally like another one of those nostalgia blast for me because my brother had one of their albums.

I immediately put it on on Spotify and just like was rocking out because I super liked them younger and maybe even sparked my love of like female lead singers. Did you ever watch Josie and the Pussy Cats? because that's all letters to Cleo's singing as well as being on the soundtrack. So they were like the, what is that called, a ghost singer when a ghost writer? Awesome. Singing all the music for it. That actually makes me want to watch it now because I really do like that band.

Yeah, it's a good movie. The band was formed by guitarist Greg McKenna and singer K. Hanley in 1990, originally as Rebecca Lula, with members rotating in and out besides McKinna and Hanley. The name was changed in 1994 to letters to Cleo as a reference to Hanley's childhood Pin-Pal. And they started to make a name for themselves in and around the Boston area. Their first big hit single, Here and Now, got exposure on the Melrose Place soundtrack. So they were always kind of in the Hollywood system in terms of their popularity. The album, Wholesale Meets and Fish was on rotation on my brother's CD player,

and I really, really dug it when I was a kid. They did four songs for the film, including a cover of cheap tricks. I want you, want me. And Niccolo and Ian Goms, cruel to be kind. And then there's that... Gotta be cool to be king. Oh yeah, yeah, baby. Final rooftop shot with them, and it's such a great way to close out the film.

It's so epic and fun and totally unexpected. Yeah, that's like a very frightening shot, actually. They're really on top of a curved roof. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Junger said, Disney said they loved the work I was doing, but couldn't justify spending that much money for one shot. And then when the line producer said to me... Because it was like, what is it?

Like a half a million dollars for every... time. Now you can just do it by it like drone and easily. Yeah, right. And then when the line producer said to me, what did they say? I don't know what the hell it was, but some instinct to me said, they said yes, shoot it. So they had this helicopter for the shot and

a junger was aggressive with the direction on that like having it sweeping low on them. Kay Hanley from Legerzoglio said we're all arranged on top of this postage stamp size roof with chicken wire the only thing protecting us from toppling to our deaths into the Puget sound. The music starts playing and we

start pretending we're in a music video. We hear the whir of a chopper right above us and then it dive bombs us. We did two takes. It was pretty much assumed that this shot wasn't going to work and Gil would never work in Hollywood again because he had just blown through half a million dollars doing this shot he was forbidden to do and

it ended up being a pretty iconic scene. It's a great way to end the movie. I mean, isn't it crazy now that shot could be done for a couple hundred dollars essentially? Crazy. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely insane. Did you have any notes on who the other female singer was, the woman singer, in this movie?

I thought it was literally clear the whole time. There's another girl who's at the prom singing. I think that's all... Oh, no, no, no. I think that's Kay Hanley. There's a blonde girl and a brunette. The brunette, I don't know. Yeah. You're right, at the beginning of the prom scene.

Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Okay, I was wondering if that was another... I don't know, yeah, that is weird. Yeah, she actually, she does a good job too, though, in that. Man, are we going to talk about the prom hair? for any of these people. It was of the time period. We're not going to talk about the hair,

but we are going to talk about the dresses that they wore. What would you like to say about the hair? Do you want to say something? You're more than welcome to say something. No, I don't. But the only thing I would say is the Julius Stiles hair is one of the worst

of the time period. It's fitting for them, but again, it's that like brutal, pulled-backer. back hair like you could see the roots of her hair being pulled out of her head and then it's just in a like ponytail that just goes into like a of hair yes oh yeah no it's a plus I was glad that she wasn't wearing those heinous flip-flops also the the woman that you were asking about was the lead singer of save Ferris monique oh that was her staff safe Ferris as well with along with letters to cleo thank you jacky thank you but I was going to talk about the costume designer Kim Tillman who

was trying desperately to make sure that the outfits worn in this were things that everyone would see in their high school, which as opposed to what happened with Clueless, which was, again, more of an over-the-top. So essentially, Kim Tillman said, Heath's character was moody and comes from somewhere else. So I wanted him to be a little bit different, and Joseph's was cool and understated. As far as Cat, she was artistic and a bit rebellious and kind of had to look a little bit like she didn't give a shit, but not all the way. She wore army pants, and then Bianca was very feminine with the pink and always had on the perfect lip gloss and cute, flippy hair. But a lot of how Kim Tillman designed all of the outfits were just by thrifting and going through

New York and L.A. and piecing together. And a lot of this stuff, she also built and died from scratch. She said, I try to get them from somewhere and everywhere, so it doesn't look like they just went to Nordstrom. She also makes sure the costumes complement each other according to what's happening in the scene. If they're falling in love, it's going to be beautiful, or if the two don't get along, the colors are going to be more discordant. Now, two of the film's most memorable looks were the girls' prom outfits, which were designed

and made by Kim Tillman. Cat donned a slinky blue silk slip dress while Bianca wore a pink satin crop top and matching tulle skirt. She says, I felt very strongly about those costumes being the culmination of the romances, that they should look like their true romantic selves. back then slip dresses were in vogue and Julia looks so gorgeous She did she looks beautiful

She looks beautiful It was a perfect color for her palette And Bianca continuing with the pink Julia could handle that kind of sophisticated sleek And she was more of a dancer in real life And very graceful in her movements And I thought that this was a sophisticated Simple look for a girl

Who'd been wearing army pants She's not gonna wear a big puffy dress Right And then with Bianca Then you're gonna have fun with layers and pink She looked playful and sweet and just showed that tiny, tiny sliver of stomach, it wasn't too much.

And it's fun and interesting because in that scene when she's talking to her father before she leaves for the prom, the dress wasn't done yet. And you can see that it was, she actually, Kim Tillman had to pin it all in the back to her. Wow. And you can see that it was like too big.

And then in the prom scene, it was fitted to her body better. That's fascinating because I always thought it looked ill-fitting on her in that scene. It wasn't finished. No, it's because it wasn't. finished yet so it was actually just finned her body and then we have to talk about of course the sandals cat sandals of the time so we were talking we were talking before this and I just will say and it is so

funny I have such a weird but I also think it was because of who those flops were attached to but I have such a weird irrational hatred for the platform flip flops from that time period I mean they're back by the way oh they're back guys are coming back they made me crazy oh my god the fucking butterfly I think it was also because it was such an obvious attempt to look taller and it was just like I see what you're doing. I mean, listen, I love a plan. Hey, excuse me, Holden.

I love a platform. I'm not against a platform but there's something about it. It's the platform with the flip flop mixed with the cargo pants that makes my fucking teeth. I don't understand why, but it gives me a Crocs level reaction. But yeah, I understand. It's interesting that it was because, like, at first I just thought, I came up, I was like,

director must have a foot fetish, right? Because that's where our heads immediately go. Yeah, but also she's barefoot in every scene. It's weird. It is weird. But you're saying it's the flops made such a noise that it sort of spoke to the character. The flops also, they made, the flops made too much of a noise on set. But part of the reason of why she was wearing these specific sandals that we saw everywhere at this time period is because it's remembering that cat not that long ago was more of a Bianca type character before the trauma that she went through.

So that was one of the last things, like the vestiges of what she used to be being included in her wardrobe. And then also, yes, the flops made horrible noises when she moved. She would have looked cooler in combat boots. She definitely would have cooler in combat boots. So there are flip-flop with the bamboo bottom and Kill Tillman went on to say that I added rubber to make them a platform for a couple of reasons. One, they wouldn't last. And two, it just made it more comfortable and made so much less noise than not having the rubber on the rubber on the rubber. bottom. And for summary, the film producers hated the flip-flops. And Kim Tillman was adamant about

keeping the flip-flops. So that's why it's even more funny that you bring it up because this was a weird building contention. Yeah, that's so funny. And she said the director supported us, but some studio people were so sick of those specific shoes. I don't know what that. What is that? I don't know. I hate them. Why they bring out the ire in me in everyone these people. She said, it made sense to us. So we fought for it. And we did a few other. you know, we put in Mary Jane's as well. Mary Janes are great. I just, I don't like flip-flops.

I'm just going to say it on record. I do not care for flip-flops. But it's something about the platform. It's something about making them trying to make flip-flops, like, fashionable. I think it's like, to me, think it's like. Just wear your flip-flop's and be flip-floppy about it. Just wear your floppy flip-flops.

Like you can walk down, you know, some feel like the mall and I'm fancy today. And those flops. Platforms to me like indicate a bit of like sexual energy in a very, you know, like innocent way. Right. Flip-flops are not sexy, okay? Unless you're Tarantino, they're not sexy. Hey, be comfy. Where they're flops?

And I will be canceled for this. I do not care. But yeah, no, I looking back at it now, I do really appreciate that they have such a dressed-down version of these kids. I hated it at the time, because I love, I still dress like I'm in clueless. but I think that it works really well that they just look like kids in the movie although I will say that one scene where when she's sitting in that tire swing

she's dressed like she looks like a giant toddler in that scene you know some of the 90s they really brought in that B remember the BBTs I love a baby Tee but you know what it was is what she's wearing like a shin length tall skirt in Mary Jane's and a pink sweater and she's sitting in a tire swing and she looks like a baby. Baby girl needs to be kissed.

And baby girl needs to release a movie. This film was released in March of 1999 and it finished number two behind the matrix because of course it was the matrix. Gordon Levitt said, I feel like the sheer closeness that we all had that summer is a big part of why people like that movie because it wasn't fake. I spent all summer laughing with Krumholz and slowly talking, starting to talk like him, this is that quote. By the end of that summer, everybody talked like an old Jewish man.

from Queens because of Crumholtz. Crumholt said, you know, people will say I have a penis on my face, dole night, and I have to be like, hey, you got me. It's haunted me for the rest of my life. It's wonderful. But he also said, he also said, I suspect

that it's that beautiful coalition of actors that audiences respond to you most when watching 10 things I hate about you. This mutual respect and affection is why audiences indelibly link the film with independence and true romance. And, I mean, not only does it speak towards

like the actors, but I feel like too in the writing. I mean, they really made these characters like gel in a way. Yeah, I think so. You just didn't get a lot. There was a much more realistic interpretation of how kids interact in a school, no matter what their clique is or their archetype is necessarily on the outset. Here's the sad parts. Let's get all sad now. I do love these quotes, though, about Heath Ledger. Cromholt said, it always makes me swallow hard when I know that something I know

that something I say about Heath is going to be put out there. My click was Heath and his lovely assistant and best friend Trevor DeCarlo. I loved Heath. As I get older and as the movie takes on greater relevance with new audiences, it's harder to wrap my head around the idea that Heath passed on the way he did. I would have very much loved him to be a part of this article. I feel appreciated for his work in the film because he worked really hard on 10 things I hate about you. A couple more quotes.

Gabriel Union, Heath had the ability to look at you and make you feel like Princess Diana. in a very crowded Hollywood landscape, he could make you feel special and seen. That's a pretty special gift, and I don't think it's talked about enough. And it's just, it's that, like, the fact, it makes so much sense that he is an amazing actor

because of that connection, that it's not just that he had the connection on a film set, but that he had an actual personal connection that you read time and time again of anyone talking about him that he made you feel, like, that he, like, the kind of thing

where, like, he knew everybody's name on set. I mean, I'm sure he didn't on, you know, dark night. But on this, he was connecting with other people in a way that was unheard of

for someone that looked like that. Can you imagine? If he looked you in the eyes and had a conversation and be like, ah, me, you want to talk to me? You want to talk to me?

You want to talk to me? You want to talk to me? I love him. He was, he was, he had such a wiseness about him that made him seem older and it was, it's hard to believe he was only 28 when he passed away. And that's why you're like, you're like, hachi-machi about Heath in this movie.

And I don't think that's like necessarily gross because he just doesn't come off like a 19-year-old. Thank you, Holden. Like he doesn't, though. Like he comes off like he's like in his 30s in this movie. I mean, even Andrew Kagan says that when he talks about, he's like, the way he sincerely delivered the talk when he's at the party was a memory that I have of Heath. His name is difficult to say. The way he sincerely delivered that talk

when they were at the Bogie Lowenstein party was a memory that I have of Heath talking to me. It really reminds me of him just grabbing you by the shoulders and straight talking with you. I think in this film specifically he was so much of himself. I don't want to say watching it breaks my heart,

but it certainly makes you miss your dear friend the really talented actor that he was and still is as he lives on in his films. Hell yeah. All right. Well, I have one more quote, but I don't want to cry reading this quote. Here you go. Jackie, or Natalie. It's a big one, but it's up top. Crumholt's quote up top. Toward the end of his life, I reunited with him at a time when we were both quite vulnerable and trying to recover from some stuff that was haunting us. I had an opportunity to tell Heath how much I loved him and to sort of try to help Heath. He had become so famous and his life had become so crazy that in that moment when I could have said something,

something I didn't, even though I thought it. It's a big regret I have. To fans, he's a movie star that died. To me, he was flesh and bone, soulful, sweet, and I knew for a fact he was in recovery prior to his death. He was trying to get healthy. I just want people to know that there was a suffering individual there who couldn't have been a lovely or human being. I prefer to remember Heath as a 20-year-old kid doing his first American lead with a big giant Cheshire Grinned smile on his face, taking charge as the leader of the group like any good ensemble leadership. Man, before his time!

Died before his time. I'm not going to cry. Well, what probably did die when it was time. Was the television show? Yes, there was a TV show that aired an ABC family. It made it 21 episodes. I will say,

the pilot was directed by Gilchanger. Yeah, Junger directed the pilot, and Carter Covington created the show, and he decided to make the show more about the two sisters. He said, I love the movie, and I think a lot of people love the movie. I know there can be a lot of backlash when you try to turn a hit movie into a television show, but I always want to do a show about siblings. I think the sibling dynamic is incredibly ripe for comedy. Sure, sure, sure, but not with this story. I think that there had a lot of doing other things.

You could write a sibling rivalry show that's not based on this. I think you would have done a great job. And actually, the sequel sounds interesting. It just doesn't sound like a 10 Things I Hate About You sequel, but back in 2012, Junga Rote and directed, uh, started directing a sequel called 10 Things I about life. Junger said, it is the story of two relatable ordinary people with normal jobs and normal desires whose seemingly great lives have become unmanageable. Two people who go to the same place at the same time to end it. Their chance meeting is so awkward, so raw, and so funny, they postpone their intentions and go their separate ways. Which I think it's like a really good idea for kind of a comically dark romantic comedy, but it just doesn't sound like a tin thing's hate

about life. So, hey, Junger, why don't you just do this? Why don't you adapt a different Shakespeare play and make it a sequel using those same characters, but as adults. I don't know, just a thought. But it actually started filming, but the production sat down in 2013. And Evan Rachel Wood, who played the lead, was actually sued by producers for dropping out of it. But then she was like, that's not what happened. They just stopped production entirely.

Seems like it's a very complicated legal issue. And also, he wanted, like, Junker wanted Heath Ledger to be in the sequel. So after he'd finished the script, he called Steve Alexander and asked if Heath could give me a call so I could share this exciting project with him. He said Heath would not be taking work calls at all while he's filming Dark Night because he's so far into the character that he can't get out of it. And he's having incredible trouble sleeping. The role shook him and he took it so seriously and so professionally and profoundly that he couldn't escape it. God, it gutted me because I knew it was a wasted life. I knew he wasn't playing with fire.

I knew he wasn't that guy. And this is like on top of the fact that like he seemed so much older than he was when so Julia Stiles and Heath Ledger had a very, you know, they were in a relationship during this, but not really. It seemed like they were just having fun and it was kept very loosely. So at the end of it, they had decided to go separate ways. And he had left Julia Stiles a goodbye note for her to find. And she said that, I forgot the beginning of the quote, but it's like dance like you've never heard music and love like you've never been heard. It was so sweet, I cried.

That was his goodbye note to me at the age of 20. And I just, this, I can't even imagine watching this movie when a lot of them say they can't watch it again because of like it was such a great reminder and now it's a great reminder but in a very different way. And I do love, I like this quote of why the question was to the two writers. For the teens out there who haven't seen 10 things I hate about you, why should they watch it? And Kristen says, it's a gender-balanced feminist comedy and romance that lovingly explores the battle of the sexes in a sweet way. The unexpected alliances in high school, odd pairings of people breaking free of their social groups to befriend each other and get a different perspective. It's still interesting. And then the other writer says, also, Cat is a character that doesn't give a fuck what people think about her.

And we all need a little bit more of that. Hell yeah. Love it. All right. I think that does it. That's our episode. I actually only half cried. I know. I would have started to just as Natalie was reading it, so I'm glad I didn't try to read it myself because that would have been a disaster. But yeah, I think this was a lot of fun, guys, and I really enjoyed, like, being forced to watch yet another movie that I totally missed out on it from my younger years because girls stuff was for girls and boys stuff was for boys.

I think that's really stupid. How fucking hot is he bloodger in this movie, though? So great. He's so, I guess he's so. I guess is, yeah. Oh, I'm coming for you. He's just so charming to me. I'm crumming for him.

For you guys, y'all are getting all wet your bean bags, but for me, it's much more so like, this is a guy that I was just like, even now I'm like, oh, I would totally be his little, like, sidekick kid who was always just like, what are you doing next? Yeah. Like, I would totally be magnetized to a person like that. Henry was pointing out who he might be in the movie,

and I forget who he said, right? Grumhol. I could see only myself as being one of the, girls at the skunk who when they pass just glares at them. I feel like that was my, they would have typecast me as that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Awesome. Thank you so much, everybody, for joining us.

If you'd like to support us further, patreon.com forward slash page 7 podcast. Also check me out on Twitch, twitch. Twitch.tv slash Holdenators Ho. Friday nights I do a stream of Jackie. It's very fun. Yeah, that's me. Natalie? Natalie.

You can check out my podcast on LPN called Someplace Underneath. want to hear some stories about missing women, me and Amber Nelson talk about it and it's really horrible and upsetting but we also make jokes. Hell yeah! My name is Jackie Zabrowski. Follow me on Instagram, I Jack That Worm, and I do like

other things. You can come find me. I'll be around. I do things. All right. Have it going, everybody. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listen to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.