Page 7 - Pop History: Beaches

Episode Date: March 30, 2021

We're all bishes for Beaches this week as we explore the making of the beloved 1988 film.Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7PodcastKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0 Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

my shadow. Oh, my God. It's like being a cats. Natalie, do you wear a titsling? Or do you wear sing that song when we are obviously opening with wind beneath my fucking wings.

Welcome to Beaches. It's Beaches. I just cried. And it had nothing to do with Beaches. So I am here. I am prepared. Open up thine hearts. Open up thine fucking brains. Yeah, I've said the F word twice. This is a, this is a crazy version of beaches we're talking about.

My favorite, my favorite Jackie is unhinged. I feel unhinged. And we've got an unhinged Jackie right now. There is an F-bomb at the end of beaches. Because usually I was watching it on cable, but then we bought it or rented it to watch it this time. She says fucking at the end of it. I was scandalized. Yes.

Well, I will just say this, Jackie Natalie. Did you ever know that you're my hero? and everything I would like to be. Holding, you're making a really direct eye contact with me right now. I'm excited. And then, Natalie, look at me, eagle. Natalie, do not break eye contact? For you are the wind beneath my wings.

Oh, no, no, no. We're not doing it. I'm sorry, I got lost in the moment there. I liked it, though. We did it together because it's friendship. We did it all together for friendship. You think you'll cry if I fucking die a fucking woman cancer? I am the C.C.

Get fucking over it. I'm the C.C. And although... You mean the better one? Whoa. Just because my entire family belonged to a racket and swim club growing up does not make me, what's her name? Hillary, how dare you? Holden you are Hillary.

You're such a fucking Hillary. I'm the Hillary. So lame. You're such a housewife. Not that there's anything wrong with it. No, nothing wrong with it. love to be out. Yeah, well, maybe there's a little something wrong with it.

Can we agree a little bit on that? Whoa. I want DMs this week. I have so... I want new shady DMs this week. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to talk about beaches. Nobody cares about beaches.

I'll just started with this. We do. We do. I'm going to say collectively between Pop History and Wizard of Browser, this may have had the least amount of stuff in terms of research fodder that I've ever seen, which shocks me because even though I was never this like huge, you know, beaches guy, I always knew about this movie and thought there was easily going to be like an oral history of the making of beaches. In my brain, it's like a terms of endearment.

Like it is a quintessential like character based movie that is kind of withstands the test of time. Yes. Yeah. And it's very upsetting that apparently that's not the case. But the case is to us, and we're still doing the damn episode. I think that is the case for so many, I mean, men and women, but especially women, around the world. I feel like, and I know I'm being brave right now. You are a little bit, and housewives are like, whatever, right?

I mean, we're going to grab that, right? No, it's a very difficult job. And one that I would like to have, but again. But again, let's talk about beaches. I, um, I, I, okay, and you guys are maybe already got upset when you, so I was like, Well, I didn't like cry, cry, but I definitely got very emotional. The movie works its wonders. It does its charms.

Also, Holden had never seen it before. I never seen it, but I also had a little bit of a foreshadowing because I was trying to get a jump on research before I was. I was able to watch it. When we decided Beaches, I was like, Holden, I saw that you started research. I hope that. And he's like, I know. I know what happens in the end. It was.

I was like totally fine. And then literally like, I think the day I was planning to watch it, I pulled up an article, was just the first. line in the article was just like, when Hillary dies right at the end. I was like, wow. Why would you do it? Geez, Louise. Why would the article do that to us?

But what, how did you, I'm way more interested in how Jeff reacted because you said Jeff's never had no clue what this was going to happen in this movie. Nor Henry also never saw it. Never, which is ridiculous that Henry never saw it as well because my mom is obsessed with Bet Midler and we, I have seen, I think that's also the thing. I've seen the movie with my mom, I think 60 times. But also, Bet Midler worked with Barry Manilow for a long time. So that's Barry Manlo is where my mom and I's Van Diagram intersect.

So that is where the Bet Midler love comes from. But Jeff knew, he's like, I know that Bet Midler's in it, and I know that you love it. So I would assume that it is sad. And it was like, interesting assumption. And but the second, that scene, when Hillary is sitting on the bed and the daughter is in the room with her, and I started just like,

Oh yeah And he's like, you're going already He's like, It's like, you're going already. It's like, it's like, It's a preparatory cry. I can't not do it. I have never watched that movie

Not cried during that part. I can't not. I was like laughing. I was crying so hard. I was like, I was in such a great mood. I was like, there's no way. I was like, I'm not going to cry. Right, you've seen this many times.

You know exactly what's going to happen. I know. Man, alive. It is just. Because I hadn't seen it in a while, and I was just like, oh, this is like this first time I've watched it. I am crying the same level of cry when I was like 12. It was, but talking with Jeff about it was so interesting because we have a lot of the conversations that we talk about on this show a lot of how there were movies for girls and movies for boys. And he was told that he would never like this movie.

This was such a girl movie. The movie was not for him. And so he just never did. And he's like, it's such a beautiful character study of these two people because I have this friend. I've got the best friend who I've been friends with through many parts of our lives. And we'll probably go through that. You can say it's me. It's fine.

It's not Holden. It's Madeline. I love you, Madeline, if you're listening. Yeah, whatever, Madeline, you're dead to me now. But Madeline, I always assumed. Like, I was always like, I'm the CC. I'm the C. Right.

And it's interesting, though, because of how. But Madeline is. Wasp, we shall say that as well. No, she's not the Hillary. I'm scared of her physically. Now, I do feel like we have switched roles in our adult lives where she is more of the C.C. And I am more of the Hillary.

And I was like, because. You got domesticated. I get domesticated. Blurred lines. Don't sing blurred lines. Not while we are talking about beaches. No, we are owned by no man. Except we are sometimes.

I have that. I've had that. friendship too. Right? Except that my never recovered and also she's still alive and I was not successful on Broadway. But everything else is a lot. And it is interesting because we'll get into the talk about how it was based on a novel. But Iris Rainer Dart was way more syrupy than this movie is.

And when at, well, we'll get it. into it. But it's interesting because Iris Rainer Dart wanted to more highlight the only the beautiful sides of feminine friendships and not deal with the fact that I have had that knock down, drag out, real shit

convo with Madeline. Of course. Twice in our friendship. It happened twice. The first time we didn't talk for two years afterwards. You know, it's like we've had that of like saying the real shit. Yeah. And we've gotten past it. It is, it's such a beautiful story.

I love Beaches. Sorry, now I'm not in therapy. I don't need to talk about my best friendship. But it does bring up these feelings in me. Yes, of course. Am I a failure as a woman because we did not recover our friendship? No, not, you know. Oh, yeah, I don't know.

Maybe she, well, I was going to make the joke from the earlier, but I won't say it. No, please don't. Beaches. Yes. Holden has been calling us, hey Beaches. He's been doing a lot of bitch, talk. I love it, though, and I would like to apply my bravery a little bit. I would like to apply my bravery.

Plan to write, direct, and produce man beaches. Okay. It's called man. It's just called man. Oh, it's not beaches. It's meaches. I was going to be it. I was going to call it man beaches, but meches.

Or are we menses, like men beaches. Minches, but Mitch means something else, too. It does, but it's perfect for the Jewish side of everything. I'm not making it about Jewish men. Oh my God, remember when they were singing the Christmas carols together? Yes, I loved that. I did love that actually. Especially recently because we all felt very alone on Christmas.

And that actually, I feel like we all went through a similar vibe of what that Christmas scene was with them, like just digging deep on Christmas songs together just because you're like, we have to figure it out. You have nothing else. It's not going to feel like it. And we've also all, of course, been very policed. on Christmas. Oh, baby. Shivering in our shitty apartments, just being like, I remember Christmas times. It'll happen again, probably someday.

I've also walked into a shitty apartment and in every way it should have been like a nightmare situation for me. And all I could think was, I'm free! Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, like you're like Hillary. You are Hillary. I'm so a Hillary. You're the Hillary.

My dad's a lawyer, so that makes sense. Oh, my God, you are the Hillary. I am such the Hillary. Racket and swim club, bro. Come on. private school. In every way I am so punchable and I just somehow managed to only get pushed in the face

by a stranger once. I'm going to say this to you now. I will raise your daughter like she is my own. Thank you. You're welcome. You can write me down. Write me in. Um, she dies in the end. The daughter? No. We don't know. Hillary dies and it's very sad. The daughter dies in the sequel, Beaches 2.

Go fuck yourself. Yeah, go fucking. Good one. Good one, Hill. Start calling him Hill. So regardless of anything, even though it is such a quintessential woman's movie, written by women, starring women. Literally produced by a production company. This is ironically titled All-Girl Productions because they're making fun of the term girls. But it is all women that run it with Bet Midler.

Like, it's really exemplary. It's really, but directed by a man. But, you know, Gary Marshall kind of has, like, he has a whole empire of chick flicks, quote. Because he did Pretty Woman, Princess Diary. He grew up with two sisters. He's pretty married female-driven. Trying fucking Marshall's his sister. But I don't know how future generations will take Gary Marshall movies, but I grew up on them and I love his movies.

He's also a really funny actor. I loved him in Soap Dish. Oh, yes. And Hocus Pocus Focused. Married to his sister in the movie. Soap Dish. He's like, I had a buddy the other day. Call it the Son Also Sucks.

I would love. I love to do soap dish. My dad and I used to watch soap dish like any time it was on. I fucking love soap dish. Oh, and it's got some problematic stuff in there at the end. No way. Nurse Nan.

Oh my God. Gary Marshall makes a little voice cameo in Deges. Did you catch it? No. When she does her audition, when she's right before the guy comes on, Kisada. Yeah.

It's the auditioner's Gary Marshall. Oh. Awesome. Well, there you go. There's your first factoid of the day. ladies and gentlemen, as we move into our fact-brain notes. Fact-brain notes. Our segment called Fact-brain-n-nauts.

Beaches is a 1988-American comedy drama film based on the 1985 novel of the same name by Iris Rainer DART and adapted to film by Mary Agnes, Donahue. It was directed by Gary Marshall, stars Bet Midler, Barbara Hershey, Mayambiolic, John Hurd, James Reed, Spaldon, Gray, and Lainee Kazan. Lovely. Oh, that's the fact bird saying, you just got told. Thank you, Bird. But first we got to dip in to Iris Rainier Darts novel that this was based on. Now, she had a very, I went down a weird Iris Rainier Dart. You found some stuff about it.

I will say, Natalie. She was born in Pittsburgh. I found that out through this, pretty, sir. Pity, pretty, pretty girl. What? That's it. That's what I had to say. Interesting.

and early on she was an actress in a local theater group. Rainer Dart said about her Jewish upbringing, I grew up in a household where both my parents were immigrants. My mother from Russia, father from Lithuania, and they spoke more Yiddish in my house than English. So it was just a completely a part of who I was. That's what I love too, is I read a lot about how she believes that the Yiddish culture really influenced the humor in her family.

And she said the Yiddish culture was an enormous part of it. The exquisite humor of that culture was woven into the fabric of our lives. It was growing up knowing about Yiddish films, songs, and theater that made me a comedy writer, and it was the same sensibility that inspired the great comics and comedy writers of the bygone eras. I learned that the ability to have a sense of humor, even during the horrific times of adversity, was a characteristic of the Jews. There you go.

Do you have anything before college? No. Okay. But she really wanted to act, but apparently she really wanted to act, but apparently she was. She wasn't very good. She went to Carnegie Mellon University for theater, which is a huge, very big deal program. Absolutely. And also, I know most of those theater companies that are mentioned she grew up in, they're like very established still around today, like Pittsburgh Playhouse and stuff like that.

But apparently she had a pretty debilitating stage fright issue. And so she was given the least likely to succeed at Carnegie Mellon. What? Because she could, dealing with her feet. of public appearances was very difficult. They chose somebody for that? She got least likely to succeed. Man, wow.

Cool. Thanks guys. And she had to go through years of therapy to be able to even go on her book tours later on because she just had, she was dealing a lot of stage right now. Maybe it's because she got the least likely to succeed award. Oh, my God.

No, I think it's good. Knock them down young. Make sure they have no hopes. Florida State School of Theater. I can tell you that much. It'll certainly, ugh, too fat to be, uh, anyone to be in love with me. That's what they told me. I was too fun. I was too fun.

I didn't, I wasn't too serious and, uh, fucking stoic and muscular. She did realize was that she really wanted to be writing theater instead. She was way more into being a writer. She said, I realized I had a flare for writing and I was much happier sitting in the back of a theater correcting my work than going on stage and worrying about how I look. And dude, do I understand that statement? I hear all that because I've been working hard to chisel up. And it is just a drastic nightmare.

I saw you with all those rock tools? And it said, do you smell what I'm cooking? I said, that's a spatula. I'm a real Fred Flintstone. Real Fred Flintstone over here. Are you doing the prison chain gang workout? Exactly. I'm using a bird as a telephone.

It's just ridiculous what's going on. But in the 70s... Oh, it's a fat bird. Yeah. Oh, my God, that bird's ever wait. In the 70s, she wrote for the Sunny and Share show. Which is awesome. She's one of the few women writers writing for the head of a huge television.

I didn't know. Yeah, I had no idea we were going to be doing this, a share connection here. We just did share, right? Didn't that just happen? Yes, we just did share. But that's why, thank goodness, she is not the lead in beaches or else we would be talking about Cher even more. But Iris Reiner Dart had a real rough time working on the Sunni and Cher show because she was one of the only female writers. And she took critique very, very poorly. And they really

did heap a lot on her in the writing room. And a lot of the failures were blamed on her and things like that. But she really was, she created a close relationship with Cher while writing for the show. And so she ultimately wrote speeches for her. She got the idea. Yeah, she got the idea to write about a woman quote loosely based on the no holds barred outrageous person that she found and share. The character, of course, became Cece Bloom. And she was apparently the, at one point she was the only writer on the show. And she also was inspired by her own cousin. She said, my cousin Sandy once said to me, when one of us dies, I hope it'll be me first because I couldn't live in a world without you

in it, which is, isn't that? I just can't imagine someone saying that to me. No. I can't handle it. I feel like that's a hate. This also reminds me of Madeline, too. The cousin also said, if you came to my door and said, I just killed 20 people, I'd say they probably

provoked you. Come on in. See, that's, oh, oh, friendship. I don't know. That sounds like a toxic friendship. And this is what I was gearing up towards earlier that I said that I would save it for later. So Iris Rainier Dart wrote the novel and was also asked to write the screenplay for beaches originally. That would make sense.

She already had a job in television. Yes. She knows how to write it. Yes. So the studio had asked me to write it and I turned it down. She said, I knew they would change too much of the story. I watched them shoot a scene that I never would have written. It was a cat fight set in a department store.

I don't write catfights. I'm a feminist. Betz said, do you feel sad every time you see a scene that isn't in your book? I said, honey, look around

and see all the people working because of an idea that danced across my mind. And honey, you're starring in a movie of my book. How bad can it be? Hey, that's cool.

I think it's an awesome outlook of it. But I also appreciate the fact that she was willing to give over a book that was very close to her because she wanted it to be more of the sentimentality of female female,

friendship. But I love those scenes. I know. I think that is what makes the dynamic of these characters grow. It doesn't come off. I think also saying cat fight is unfair. Yeah, they weren't just like pulling their earrings off.

Yeah. Like, fuck you. Yeah, you're fat. Yeah, they were like saying to like that, you know, do you mean? It was real shit.

Yeah, how, I don't, that is how I have found in my female friendships, how women fight with each other. Yeah. Is that it is more. It's like,

It's biting. It's biting and it's like quiet sometimes. Yeah. You're saying the worst things. Yes. And I've just like, even as I'm saying this, I'm having like flashbacks sometimes. I'm so glad I don't have to do that as much. But you do because you do have to deal with me.

Yeah. And I'm very straight forward. It is, I would say, a form of psychological abuse. And so I'm actually asking for help right now if anybody can help me. I can't hear. Is there a ghost from the room? I didn't hear. Wow.

Wow. What a couple of beaches. So Radio Dart fully accepts the fact that in film and on television, writers don't have the same clout that they have in the theater unless they're also producers and or directors like Tina Faye. She says theater has another major virtue in her experience. She's not encountered any ageism. She said, I only wanted to write for the theater from now on.

Theater enables me to be my age and work. Hell yeah. Nice. Love it. It's a good fuck. Flap a govonne there. So in comes Mary Agnes Donahue, who ends up adapting our screenplay. Donahue was born in Queens, New York City, started out working in various secretarial jobs

while following her passion on the side as a short story writer and poet. Her first screenplay credit is the 1984 comedy drama The Buddy System. This starred Susan Sarandon, Richard Dreyfus, and is about a cautious single mother who forms an unlikely friendship with her son's school security guard. And then right after that, she adapted. She was asked about her motivation for writing beaches, she said, it was simple. I've never seen a relationship between women portrayed on screen that resembled anything I've ever known. Whenever women are portrayed together unseen, they're seen as harpies, lone huntresses, competitive, and fighting.

They never show affection or allegiance. They're she-wolves out there hunting down their best interests. She said she changed beaches considerably from the novel by Iris Rainier Dart. because I've made this story more realistic. The plot is less melodramatic than the book. I wrote a film about what makes the relationship work, not what divides it. Women friendships are among the most important relationships in a lifetime.

Women never fight about men, but that's what movies are always trying to say. It's true. In this picture... Backdell test, am I right? That's exactly what we talked. Chevin and I talked about the Bechdel test, which is ridiculous that so many movies still

don't pass the Bechdelta. And that's actually shout-outs to Nomad Land that was nominated this year. That was actually one of the biggest proponents or one of the biggest qualities of that film that was trying to promote was like, hey, this is super like not a, super a passable Bechdel test movie.

Strong female characters. There's never, even there was a part where I thought there was going to be a romantic thing just because my natural instinct is to take it there because of the way film is. And there is, but there's, it's devoid of any, like, will they won't they stuff or whatever

No because that's not That's not what Beach is about It's not the will they won't they It is actually more the opposite of that Of like a oh please don't Oh girl please don't Every time men get involved You're kind of like

Get this guy out of here Yes Kind of A little bit Especially with the ones And I think that it also does really show Where I think a lot of people Had the idea that like

That wouldn't happen A woman wouldn't be able to let go of the fact that she slept with him wouldn't be able to let go of the fact that he wanted her first but we've all found ourselves in those situations before. It's just life. All you broads

are fucking and sucking and passing around all these cocks and... Oh, we pop them. They're hot pop potatoes, you know what I mean? Give me that papa, give me that poppa. I think maybe some more of traditional male gays stories do just kind of decide that the women would, of course,

be fighting over this hot dick right here. That's what they're talking about, right? Yeah, I always refer to John Hurd as that hot dick. That hot knee. I would say this is his cutest. He is cute. Yeah, he is in this for sure. Enter

Gary Marshall, the one filthy man involved in all of this. Born in the Bronx, his father was a director of industrial films and he had two sisters who also wanted to get into the business of show. Marshall said, I grew up with two sisters, no brothers. There was Ronnie who produced Happy Days for me,

and my sister Penny, who acts, directs, she does everything. So they were very, there were very strong women in my life. I do think it's fun too, though, because Gary Marshall obviously was a director of Laverne and Shirley with Penny Marshall.

And they had a real rough go of it. Oh, really? They did not get along well. We talk about an older brother and a younger sister and a creative working relationship together. I don't know anything. I don't know anything about it.

I don't know anything about it. But they at least They got through that. They got through it. It was a demultuous time for both of them, but they did still work together. And Penny Marshall also has a really great autobiography, and she also had issues with, what's the other lead actresses name? They also were going through their own shit. So there was a lot happening, but they managed to all, like, you know, get through the other side of it.

figured it out. I think it was Francine genitals, I believe was her name. Francine genitals, yeah. Marshall also said, Frankie V. Frank E.V., yeah. They also, Gary Marshall also said about his sisters and his family. They were good examples. My mother worked all of her life.

She was a dance teacher. And I also noticed, to be honest, that most of the male directors wanted to blow things up so there was like an open area for someone who wanted to direct women movies, chick flicks, whatever you. I don't call them chick flicks is what he said. Yes, he doesn't call them, which is for the best. But he still does refer to the women of beaches as the girls in multiple. interviews and I do find it a little It's old school Hollywood Old school Bronx dude

I have a couple more funny quotes I was saving for like later But he's got it you can tell he's still old school But it's one of those where at least I mean I in a place of privilege could be like I give it a little bit of a pat you know what he's old school It was different it was like I know it sounds He when people say this all the time Sure was it yeah he was born in probably he's like born in the 30s

And he still was a different time And he still was down and obviously it's like he's a smart businessman at the same he sees there's like an opening for this type of film but but still he's still out there making movies that women do appreciate i just don't want the princess diaries to be canceled okay i please uh he actually started out as a joke writer for comedians and later the tonight show and when he moved to hollywood he got into the sitcom writing biz and adapted the odd couple into a tv show i can't believe what this guy was involved and he helped create happy days laverne and shirley morgan mindy this is all through the 70s then he

moves over to film in the 80s. He does the comedy, Young Doctors in Love, which I kind of want to check out because it looks ridiculous. And his first hit film was the Flamingo Kid. And then he did overboard, which I feel like we'll end up doing overboard at some point as well. Oh, overboard's great. A classic, right? And then he does beaches.

Marshall said, I think what I brought to it was certainly a male point of view in the sense that a lot of pictures about women's friendship, the guys in the picture are always rotten guys. And that's not really honest. So in this picture, some of the guys are rotten. Some of the guys are terrific guys. I think that's the glaring issue we've seen in these woman films. It's like, come on, the men are so poorly represented. Wouldn't you agree?

I do think that, like, quote-unquote, chick flicks are pandering in a way that is insulting to men, too. Men are, like, cartoonishly terrible. And it's like, well, maybe, you know, maybe if you film this a little bit more of an honest light, this would be like a little more interesting. Yes, and show more of an actual dynamic. But I do love when he was asked. How do you treat female actors differently, like when you worked on beaches? And he said, you got to remember first.

It's a girl. A lot of people forget that. There's a difference. Even God realized that. I think more with a girl you have to say, I love it. This is so hilariously like would not hold water in 2020. And he says, I think more with a girl, you have to say, I love your work. I love you.

You're going to be good. It's fine. you're going to be all right afterward. I hug everybody. I like hugging. I wrap the big fucking ass and I hug I'm really hard. Because in the moments they're working, they're very vulnerable. They need a hug.

So again, because I do understand, like, I'm sure that it was more of a paternal thing. Sure, I don't think he was like feeling their boobies or anything. It doesn't see, honestly, I was looking. I was looking to be like, Hugh, he's not a bad. I don't think he is.

I don't think he is. I mean, he did make breast touchers three after this one. Yeah, but that was, you know, that's a professional job. It was about the female experience, so. She can't believe they've made the third one. But, uh, yes, and classically, of course, a man would do this. Donahue and Marshall clashed a lot. And, uh, to a point where he actually fired her and he hired a team of his own comedy

writers, again, I think dude bras from New York. and Marshall responded by going to the head, or not Marshall, Adonahue responded, by going to the head of the studio. And the studio asked her, just wait. The studio head that she was, in this anecdote, she says studio head was like, do you think they can write a better script than you?

And she was like, absolutely fucking not. And he was like, all right, then, just wait. Three weeks later, no one's happy with the material that's coming out of this writing team. Bet Miller's having a fucking shit fit. Everyone's pissed off. And so Gary Marshall, he ends up bringing back Mary Agnes' script and going with that.

But in the end, she did feel the final result was, quote, far too sentimental. Gary Marshall chopped away at the details. The script was actually quite tough. And, yeah, after that, Donahue ended up opting to produce and direct her own stuff moving forward because of this experience. I would be interesting to see her take on the story, but I do enjoy the beaches that we received.

Right. For sure. and I think it is very interesting just to read about this because Jackie and I were talking about just how hilariously like she didn't wasn't happy with the final result Bet Midler like hated wind beneath my wings when she first heard it

Oh, did she? Yeah, she didn't want to sing it. Like it was one of those disheartening research jobs where you're like, oh, everybody thought this sucked. It may be so sad and we'll even get to the end when like Gary Marshall wouldn't even go in for the screening of the movie like really? Man!

But it was great. It really is. And I think wind beneath my wings is incredibly sappy, but it works for seeing a young woman die. It works for that. Even though it is kind of hilarious how it talks about how you exist in my shadow and all this kind of stuff. It's sort of like your, like, but it works for the relationship.

It's insane. It's always the star. And there always has to be that like, I hate to liken it to alpha and beta, but there always has to be that like big personality matches really well with a more subtle personality. It's what brought out that part, the fire of Hillary. She needed her. They needed each other.

Yeah. Oh, they needed each other. They needed it. To be whole. Well, she's a dead woman now. Did you, I was thinking about when we were watching it. So her kid would now be like they're, like, she would be like in her 40s. Wouldn't she at this point?

Yeah. Miami Ballick or whatever her name is. No, no, not Miami-Biolic. Veronica, the little girl. The little girl. I mean, both of them. Oh yeah, Miami-M-Bel, like, yes, she's, I think, almost. She's old.

I'm not even going to try to guess her age. Whoa, I like this. That's a very scary game to play. She ain't old. She's not old at all, but it's fun that she still remembers her time fondly on beaches and shared like an updated, an old picture of her on set and stuff. She's fantastic in it. She literally said, like, as soon as someone told me I could be a young bet Midler, I knew I actually had talent.

Like it was one of those. It was like, this gig showed her like, oh, I can do this. If someone thinks I could be even a fraction of Bet Midler, then, and let's bring bet in, right? Shall we? She's the other major, one of the other major players in this and her all-girl productions will get to, too, because the three women behind that, which her included in that, is such a big part of what made this movie happen.

I'm going to go ahead and say it right now. We will be doing a Bet Midler episode. We're doing a Cliffs notes of Bet Midler today because we will absolutely be doing probably a multi-partner I'm Beth Midler, but I will say we... Talk about a dynamo. She's great. Started out in New York City in the mid-60s, studying

under Udahagen at the HB. Studio. I feel like we had brought up Udahagen and the HB studio for so many people coming up. By the way, read Udahoggin's book on acting. It is incredible if you want to get into the biz. And she went on to do plays and musicals on and off-Broadway. Her first album, The Divine Miss M, was released in

1972. It was co-produced by Barry Manilow who championed her talents as her arranger and music coordinator and he was like a big part of her getting her big start as a solo artist. Her first film was in 1979. I really want to see it entitled The Rose, Jackie. Have you seen the Rose? This is Ben Miller being Janice Joplin. I saw a clip of it and I was like, what the fuck? Yeah. Wait, what? She's not actually Janice Joplin. She just plays a character like clearly modeled. Klapplin. Yeah, she's placed Planoxcloplin. And it got an Oscar mom.

Oh, really? Help put her on the map early on. And it's great. We should see it. Yeah. Okay, we'll watch it. I'll watch it. Her next film, though,

Jynx, released in 1982, which is hilarious it was called Jynxt. Because it was this massive flop and really caused her first dip in her career. There was also an awful experience for her. She had issues with both her co-star and director. I bet that scene in Beaches was modeled after her experience on that film.

Oh, shit. where she clashes with the director and the co-star. Punches him in the face. Right? And she didn't do another film for four years after that. It was such a bad experience. Instead, she opted to focus on her music career. She has this big comeback record, no frills.

That features her cover of Rolling Stones Beast of Burden, which was a big hit for her. She also did a comedy album, and that's going to end up coming into play in the film is that Brzear song is from this album. Mud will be flung tonight. That was in 1985. And then at this point in the 80s, she's doing a bunch of comedies leading up to beaches. She's doing down and out in Beverly Hills, ruthless people. And coming off the comedy, she said, quote, everyone's talking over each other all the time, said Bed Miller. Gary Marshall apparently really got her, and this whole project got her to slow down.

As my mom used to say when I'd eat too fast. Holden, slow down. Does she still say that to you? Probably, yeah. I eat really, I'm very bad. You eat very, very fast. I've got a big fucking mouth. I do love this quote from Beddler.

No, I'm still talking about this. We're talking about Bet Midler's feminism. I'm a big mouth and I like to shove a meat's in it. But when she was asked as she always been a feminist because we're going to talk about girl bosses here. We know that Bet Midler is definitely among the rank of the best of them. Oh my God. Did I just mansplain Bet Midler's career to everybody at the world?

Yes. Yeah. You did. How do you fucking feel about it? I fucking hate it. She's a feminist. When she was asking about being a feminist, she asked if she'd always been one. She said, yes, I have. My father had three girls and one boy, and the boy was developmentally disabled. My father was a very practical man. He'd say, you better learn to do something because you're not going to get married. And my mom would say, what do you want to get married

for? This was in the 50s. So we were all raised independently. What they said was you must learn to count on yourself. You can't be afraid to be alone. You must learn to support yourself. And when I read the feminine mystique in 1965, it changed my life. I don't think there's anything wrong with being a housewife. I think all work is honorable. Being a mother is fantastic. But if you have a passion for something and a talent for something, you should be able to follow

your bliss. I love that. I love that. I love her. And before we get into the rest of the cast, I actually want to do a little pit stop here and talk about all-girl productions. Because really, this is the team, even though we talked about the, you author of the book and the screenwriter and our director and bet all girl productions is actually what made

this project happen from book to film and they were the ones that that spotted it and said we want to do this as our first film for our production company so all girl productions is it's Bonnie bruckheimer who of course married to uh Jerry bruckheimer right the famous producer well now they are divorced well of course yeah oh my god how many fucking flight attendants what did he do what did that monster Oh my God, how many fucking champagne rooms is that guy frequented? I hope that she was the one who was a piece of shit. Yeah.

I hope so, yeah. But regardless, Bonnie started out as a producer's assistant in a couple of films in the 1970s, including the Rose. And in 1970, which was in 1979, and that's where she met Bet and they became her personal and professional assistant. So they just clearly had this really tight Kismet relationship from that project on. In 1985, they formed the production company called All-Girl Productions and brought in another woman named Margaret Jennings South. The name, of course, as mentioned before, it's an ironic play on the misogyny of their business, of the business. Even Gary Marshall's referring to them as girls. It's like probably was so prevalent.

It was I-Rolley, a ridiculous I-Rolley back then. Their business model, which Bonnie came up with was, we hold a grudge. I love this. That is awesome. Ben Midler further explained it. She said, all the men were holding grudges. We were women, and we were going to hold a grudge too. Because it was just this constant push and pull of tension between men and women where there was no respect.

More than anything, we wanted our respect. And what's crazy about all-girl productions when I didn't realize about beaches is that pretty much out the gate, they sign a huge development deal with Disney. So Beaches is made by all-girl productions with the help of Disney, which is also why they go on to make ruthless people. They go on to make outrageous fortune, big business. But then it also extends out to hocus pocus, which at the time was a huge flop. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

So all of these, after hocus pocus, it was seemed like a, maybe we should move away from Disney for a while. but that's crazy. So they are the producers of all of these in conjunction with Disney. Yeah, so Bonnie becomes this leading pioneer for women producers in the film industry. She also resuscitates Midler's acting career

by going into business with her because her big breakthrough right before beaches her comeback was with Lily Tomlin in the film Big Business. Love it. Betts said about their whole dynamic, Margaret is terrific with story and knows how to give a story

resonance and profundity. And Bonnie's field of experience is dealing with all these disparate elements. Who's available? Who wants what kind of money? What the logistics are? The locations, that sort of thing. So we all sort of complement each other. So Bonnie does all the work. Straight up. Honestly, though,

Bet Midler does essentially say that I was reading, I read a couple different interviews when they're like, so Bet, Bet, what do you do? And she's like, well, you know, I am Bet Midler. And she makes no bones about the fact that Bonnie is the workhorse of the two of them. But she is, she is C.C. Bloom.

She is the creative. Also, yeah, I mean, doing things like getting into rooms and stuff is kind of important. Yeah, and she does talk about how working on actual film, when the film's actually rolling, she is answering a lot of questions. She is hammering down details with the director in that producer role as well as that acting role. But yes, Bonnie is like doing most of the work. All right, so getting back to the rest of the cast, let's talk about Barbara Hershey.

She was born in Hollywood. She always wanted to be an actress from a young age, but was very shy to the point that people thought she was deaf at school. Her high school drama coach helped her get an agent, and at the age of 17, she got a role in Sally Fields television series, Gidget, which led to more TV work. And while shooting a Western called Heaven with a Gun, she began dating David Caradine, which would take her whole identity in a different direction. Of course, there's so much of this, like, older man, young ingenue shit going on in an unhealthy manner, especially about Backman. While shooting the film last summer, she had to throw a seagull into the air. Oh, right. Oh, right.

It's very sad. You would giggle about it like that. It just makes me know your eye. So you're like, no, no, no, don't. Well, she did it, again, again, again, and the bird died. Oh, no. So on the very last take, the. bird died. So she changed...

Oh my God. What the fuck? Listen to this though. Because of that, she was so traumatized by that. She changes her stage name to Seagull. No. This kind of ruins her career for a little while. Wait. Her first name? Yeah, she changed her just her stage name as Segal.

She was just Seagull. She was so affected by this moment. It completely fucks her career up. It lives on. The Siegel never died. The Segal lives a winner. The Segal got its revenge. It completely fucked her. her whole career up. Oh my God. This is a lot.

She spent her entire, the entire 1970s just trying to get out from under David Caradine's shadow and also be like, uh, I'm not actually this hippie, ridiculous. I'm sorry, I'm just singing wind beneath my wings over here. She was trying to unwind beneath Caradine's wings, essentially. And she comes back in a big way in the 80s, starting with the film The Stunt Man and was in big hits like The Right Stuff, the Natural. She moves her and her son to Manhattan She's almost immediately cast in the fucking

Cancelled ass Woody Allen's film But it's such a good fucking movie And she's so good in it called Hannah and Her Sisters It's probably one of my favorite It's my favorite It's okay, you don't have to talk about it We don't have to talk about it. I just love Hannah-Rissus.

She's so good at Hannah-Rissisters And that comes out in 1986 It goes on to win three Oscars Gives her this carte blanche When it comes to movie roles in Hollywood but Hershey and Midler had only met once before at a party, but they did spend three weeks rehearsing and attempting to form that deep connection with each other.

It does really suck because apparently, though, during her testing, Midler didn't have time, so she left, so while she was testing for the part, she did the scene with Gary Marshall's assistant, and she said, my agent told me I'd done the best of all the actresses, but the studio head said there was something missing between me and bet. I said, did you tell him it was bet?

But she still ended up getting the job and then obviously had terrific chemistry once they were on set. But I can't even imagine that. But what I do love is she didn't ask anyone. I'm talking about the lip injections. Did she literally, before you get into this, I didn't realize she was the same person as the person that was in, Hannah and her sisters. And like she looks drastically different with these lip injections. She gets so she didn't ask, but she was revealing a little self-conscious because she had to play her much younger self as well as her current age.

So she went out and got herself lip injections. And Bonnie Brookhauer said, I never realized she had lip injections in this movie. She said she didn't have the lips when she got the part. She showed up on the first day of shooting with them. we almost fainted because they are... They're just very drastic. They're very... I wonder...

She has very subtle lips, I will say, before this. I didn't know they had lip injections in the 80s. I wonder what they put in her face. Yeah, that's the thing. Mushmallow fluff. And then as it seeped out, she just got to lick the sticky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine.

It really was so drastic because, yeah, probably the science had not really gotten to the point where you could get subtle lip injection. It's just very, very... And she, yeah, that's not her thing. Like, she's not like a Julia Roberts where she's, like, known for her luscious lips, you know what I mean? Sure. And also, I don't really know how that equates to being young.

Young, yeah, made her look arguably older. But I think, in general, I would, like, you know. I would be terrified to play someone 20 years younger than me. If you're going to cosmetically change yourself after accepting an acting job, you should probably fucking run it by anybody. But I also, I think she sold her. as a younger person, like, and just by acting. Sure.

She did a good job. She didn't need to do, I mean, whatever. She's allowed to do whatever the fuck she wants to her face. Well, whatever. I think she's bad for it. Whoa. So. May and Bialik.

Yeah, she's a woman in the world. She was a little girl, though. Oh, that's okay. She is watching it with Jeff, too. He had no idea that that was blossom or whatever her name is in the Big Bang Theory. I was like, oh yeah. She's great because also she was one of the few little girls that didn't have red hair that was up for it. So she didn't think that she was going to get it.

And she was weirdly enough, the only person on set Gary Marshall were referred to as a woman. I mean, I get it. She carried herself as such. Now that's a woman. That's what he would say. Mayam was born in 1975, grew up in California, and her first role was on the Beauty and the Beast TV show in 1987. And so really soon after she's going to get Beaches, she then gets the role in The Facts of Life.

Webster and the horror film Pumpkin Head. This all happens in 1988. Crazy. And I love it. The producer Nick Abdo says she was so raw, but we really wanted her because she looked so much like Bet. Bat didn't think she looked like her, by the way. And I love that she talks about shooting the scene under the boardwalk

and she didn't know how to light a cigarette. It's very cute. It's very cute. So her mom was under. need the boardwalk with her lighting the cigarette and trying to show her how to puff in all the cigarette. Wow, so they were using a real cigarette? They were using an herbal cigarette. Yeah, but it is really such a striking early moment in the film, this little, this little girl with a cigarette. As someone that also smoked cigarettes for many a year, but had to smoke those

herbal cigarettes in a play once, they are worse than regular cigarettes. Like, they hurt more. They hurt so bad. I guess fake cigarette technology has come a long way because now they make things that just make smoke come out of them. Yes. But it is cute just because you can tell she has no idea to smoke it, just holding it funny. Which is also, though, how I imagine a girl of 11 would be smoking. It's just trying to be cool. Yeah, he's trying to look a certain way.

I also think it's fun too because that is why. So apparently, Miami-Bialik was a dancer, was actually was in school for dancing. So, but, and she also was a great singer, but she wasn't classically trained. so Bet Midler wanted her to sound more like her so they had someone else singing like a child that was classically trained as well as they had a choreographer come in and do the scene to teach her this like intense choreography for it. Miami and Bialik learned it and then Bet Midler which I love because she was a producer came

and was like no no no I want her to be a kid. So you're going to so she choreographed that dance herself and showed it to So, like, they had really good, like, hangout experience that Bet Miller wanted her to still be a kid. So she wasn't, like, a professional dancer. She was, like, with, you know, kind of like a lower income family, just, like, figure it out how to make the dance moves happen. I wouldn't know anything about that. Rackett and Swim Club. Yeah.

Yeah, all right, Hillary. And I do love, too, that apparently when Miami Ballac was young and would rewatch the movie, she couldn't handle it because there's one scene where she doesn't catch the boa when she's dancing. and she was a perfectionist. And they wanted to keep that in the movie because she's a kid and that's part of it. And Miami-Bialik, as a kid, was just like, I would have caught it. I can't handle it.

And I think that that's also really cute. That sounds right. The actress Marcy Leeds end up as who played the young Hillary. She was also a child actress who had appeared in the film Silver Screen before this. Didn't really go on to continue to act, so whatever. She's a surgeon now. Whatever.

She's not on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, So I want her to shoot her out of a cannon into the moon. Apparently, she's a surgeon who helped treat Arizona representative Gabby Giffords after the 2011 assassination attempt on her life. Oh, well, I guess she's fine. Snooty about that, I guess. You snoot! You snoot! You've backed me in a corner, so I guess I'll have to say not whatever.

Well, that's a crazy connection. Right? That's what I was. That's what we get when we do, the little fact toys you find out. Wait, where's the bird? There's the bird. John, speaking of birds, John Hurd, rhymes with bird. He was fantastic.

It does. He's fantastic as the theater director. He falls for both of the ladies. He acted in New York doing things like Shakespeare in the Park and got into the film biz in the 80s, starring in stuff like Judd and After Hours, awesome New York movies. He also played Tom Hanks' character's nemesis in the film Big, the same year as Beaches. Oh, that's right. I forgot about that.

It's so hard to see him as a bad guy after this movie where he does come off pretty good. And I think this is the character and Spalding Gray's character who Gary Marshall is referring to as like guys there were a little less just black and white terrible in a movie like this. She really fucks him. Yeah. Like that sucks. She doesn't even say, no, I'm sorry, I just jumped in. CeeC doesn't even say goodbye to the man that she was engaged. That's W-GY-N, yeah.

That is, and the fact she makes Hillary tell him. It's so awful. I do want, sorry, the little pivot, you know when she's singing like, a doctor, doctor, marrying a doctor. Apparently, which we will be introduced later on with the soundtrack, Mark Shaman, who made the soundtrack, wrote that song for his sister Joyce's wedding for his mother because his sister was marrying a doctor.

And the scene, the song is very long. And there's one point, which did make me think of as someone that is scared about getting a vaccine, is that in the joke, the joke of the song is about how you'll never have to, like, get a prescription ever again. My son-in-law's a doctor. Everything, it's like, oh, do you need to get punched? Like, do you need to get the vaccine? Go see my son-in-law.

He's a doctor. And it's very cute. That is very cute. Real quick, whenever, okay, so the scene where she is starring in the new Falcon Player show with, what's his name, John Hurd's character. And they do that musical bit. I love that scene. I love it. And I'm, you know, like, industry, charity, faithful.

I love it. The one with all wearing masks. I love it. I love it. So weird and great. Henry was watching it. He's like, what is this so stupid? No, it's not.

And I was like, you know this is exactly what you and I have been making for like 20 years, right? Yeah. You hate this because I think maybe subconsciously you know this is what armor goes.

And everybody who like went to New York to be an actor or whatever ended up in a show like that. Yeah, all the avant cards like that's what we loved. Remember all of the weird art we used to make that's all gone? Now we just think about like careers

and other things. Yeah, totally. Technically we are, Henry and I are also, we are C.C. Bloom in that apartment when she sold out. That's also us. So maybe that is why he's mad. He's like looking back and being like, oh, I remember when I was legit in the theater. So yes, going back to Spalding Gary really quick, who played that sad, sad doctor. I would have married him. He co-founded the theater company, the Wooster Group, in the 70s and got notoriety for his monologue work, especially the piece he wrote called Swimming in Cambodia. That was where his big start.

So again, John Hurd and Spalding Gray both like legit New York theater people, New York avant-garde scene people. Well, this is part of the conversation when I really did watch it with a different eye of thinking of this movie as written for Cher or like with that idea. But I think that also it's coinciding with watching Alan V. Farrow, which we're not going to get into. But the idea of New York fixtures, that Midler is a New York fixture. It's a cool thing to be.

I made a joke with Jeff. I've asked him multiple times, stoned off my gourd, like, surprised that he never went through a Bet Midler phase. I didn't under, I'm like, you never, and he's like, why would I have? But I get that besides the fact of that, you know, whatever, of the people thinking that Bet Midler isn't for them. I forget that we grew up in Queens. Yeah. In New Yorkers, Bet Midler does have a place.

for all of us like the Woody Allen, like all of that, because she was New York. She was theater. And I think that it really did make sense for her specifically to have this character. Because she also has the brashness as well as the syrupy sweet that I feel like Cher is more brash than she is genuine sometimes when it comes to the idea of a character. Yeah. But maybe I'm looking too far into it. Bet's got a certain amount.

No, shares got that like stone cold energy. It's the blunt energy that you want in that kind of friend and in that kind of, and want to be in a lot of ways. That strength whereas Bet I feel like demonstrates a certain amount of almost like clumsiness and vulnerability that makes you so human. That makes you why you love her. Because you feel like you'd be your friend. Yes, because even though she's so selfish, like she still loves you with her whole heart.

Right, right. And I love that about her. I also do what I get to do because I did look up what a stinger is. Because she drinks the entire time. And so I found this blog. So apparently Carrie Grant drinks stingers in some big movie,

but I, like the bloggest, don't know that movie. And she's like, I know Stingers from beaches. Let me just say, I'm such a big fan of hers. I've seen the movie several times. Her cocktail of choice a Stingers. So ever since this 80s chick flick, I've wondered what a Stinger is.

a stinger is a sweet after-dinner drink that can be served on the rocks or straight up. I prefer the rocks because it's such a sweet cocktail. It's two liqueurs, crem de ment and brandy. And so it's just that. And so she's like, Give me a double stinger, keep them coming. Can you imagine? Just filled with crem de mint.

And brandy. So apple, I'm guessing an apple brandy and crimmed it. I'm sure that it would be delicious as like a little cocktail after a meal. I mean like a sip. If it was really good brandy. Yeah. If it was really good brandy, but I was just like, wow, I can't imagine being upset and just slam in a bunch of crimed mint. Oh, God, that throw.

Just like drinking straight peach snobs for hours. I had an experience with that, which is why I don't drink peach snops. I think we all did as teens. Yeah, yeah. Anytime I check, if I take a sip of a drink and there's peach shops and I'm like, I'm sorry. It's one of the few things I will have to turn down. I will say a little factoid about that cottage. Cottage number 13.

Thank you. The cottage where those ending scenes of the film are done lives in Crystal Cove's historic district in Crystal Cove State Park in California. You still go there. It looks like they, so it was built by six couples back in the late 1920s. They all fucked. They all fucked in it and sucked in it. Why wasn't six couples specifically? They were apparently all campers that decided, hey, we want to stay here.

We like this place. We want to be able to go in a fucking a house instead of on the sand. Sick of getting sand all of my dirty pussy. I need to get it in my big asshole. What is it? I'm happening. It's beaches. I said the F word twice up top.

Yeah, they're like, we're sick of suck it and fucking and getting all sand all over it. So they built a house. And then the house got so wet that it broke. And then they built another house. Hell yeah. They built another. No, it wasn't the ocean that did it. And they built another house.

I was wondering about this because you can't usually just have a home directly on the beach. For one, for practicality reasons. And two, because it would cost like, it's like prime real estate. It would cost like $12 billion to have that property. But it does still exist. And now it's like, I don't know if they've actually done this, but the article I read, this was from years ago. That's an Airbnb.

It's an Airbnb now? Yeah. Because it said it was being renovated into a film museum. And like it is called the Beach's Cottage. But that's awesome. I want to go to it. Yeah, that'd be amazing. It looks great.

It looks like such a cozy getaway. Yeah. And she died there. She died in it. That's why I want to be like. We don't know she technically. She might not have died there. Maybe she died in the car on the way home.

She could have. I hope. Yeah. Let's pack her in. I want her to die on the I-5. Do you have anything else about the filming before we talk about the soundtrack, Jackie? Nah, let's jump into that track, bro.

Let's start with Wind Beneath My Wings, of course, the most important song on the soundtrack written by Jeff Silbar and Larry Henley, and it came from a poem that Henley had written about his ex-wife. Yeah, so it wasn't written for the movie. It was something that was written years before. Oh, really?

When the two got together to write a song for Bob Seeger, Silbar saw the title written on Henley's legal pad, and it inspired him to write a song, which included none of the other text from the poem that included, You're a bitch, Wind, and The Wind cheated on me with my own accountant, so fuck you, Wind. I will say that I saw this in Holden's notes, and I was like, wait, you know. That guy, the Garcinan, because he said he read a poem about his ex-y. It was, but also, it was a concept born from the poem he had written, but Jeff Silbar,

who wrote it, loved the concept. because he was also learning to become a pilot at the same time. So he thought that, talking about Kisman, he thought that it meant something. And so they started slamming it out. Oh, so like his airplane wing. His plane wing said, usually we would write the chorus first, but with this song, we started from the first line of the verse.

One by one, the lines came in a spontaneous way and had a stream of consciousness flow to it. By the end of that day, we had finished writing most of the song. Yeah, that's it. That's all it took. The song was recorded It was recorded by a few different singers before it got to bet.

First by Australian artist Colleen Hewitt in 1982. Later, Lou Rawls, Gladys Knight and the Pips, and Moore tried it out. But it was picked by, we mentioned before, Mark Shimon, Midler's music arranger at the time. And while searching for a song to do the film, Shimon always had loved this song, wanted to use it in some way.

He ends up playing the song for Midler, Bonnie Brockheimer, Gary Marshall, the director, Shimon, said, I sang with my back to them because the piano was facing the other way. When I turned around, they were all awash in tears. That song's spot was locked from that moment on. I will say that is why Bet Midler didn't want it in the movie. So, of course, that they were pushing for an original song so that it could be up for an

Oscar nomination, and Mark Schaman wanted the chance to write that song. But what did Bet have to say about it? She said, I don't think there's anything wrong with sentiment. is it mockish? I don't think so. I think it's human. Wind beneath my wings was a country song at first, and I didn't want to sing it

because I thought it was too sentimental. But what changed her mind? Midler recalled her friend and songwriter Mark Shaman telling her, if you don't sing this song, I'll never speak to you again. And there we have it. So she sings the song.

Midler also said, it's really grown on me. When I first heard it, I said, I'm not singing that song, but the friend who gave it to me said, as you said, if you don't sing I'll never speak again. So of course I had to sing the damn song.

Whatever reservations I might have had, I certainly don't have anymore. I also think there's something about it not being her singing it like on camera. Like just being over the scene makes it really. Yeah, it makes it. Because I love that she, they ended with the story of love in that slow version

because that makes me cry almost as much as the other one. It's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That actually definitely got me more that moment. And it was none of those songs. actually that was released as the hit single from the soundtrack. What is it about under the boardwalk that our parents can't get over that song? Can you throw it out there?

I don't really give a fuck about that song. It's kind of a cheesy song. And I feel like I heard it so much growing up. It was like every time we went to the beach. It's a great song. It's a little cheesy. It's such a mom and dad's song. It's such not a egg.

I'm just going to go ahead and say, under the boardwalk's kind of slimy. A little way they want to be under that. about campers fucking making a wet cabin. Seriously. Weez. Oh, brother, may I? That's what I always say. He's fucking beaches.

I disgusted myself. God, what is happening right now? All right, but yeah, so Shimon, we should mention a little bit about him, the music supervisor for the film as well as. It's nuts. I can't believe I had not heard of this person before. Yeah, he has been Oscar nominated seven times.

and he, for Mary Papa's return, sleepless in Seattle, Patch Adams, first wives club, American president, South Park Bigger Longer Un-Cunk. Which is one of my favorite musicals of all time. I love South Park. The Adams family,

when Harry met Sally. Two Tony Awards for hairspray. Yeah. He wrote all of the, like, almost all the music from airspray. He's ridiculous. I'm surprised that we don't know. I know.

He's absurd. And he started out in theater and cabaret as a musical director. He then worked on SNL for a very long time before he became Bet Midler's right-hand man and went on to do all these fucking movies, man. And yeah, it's kind of incredible. His life as a music arranger,

music director is unbelievable. And then out of this, the song won Grammys for Record of the Year and Song of the Year in 1990, and it was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Art Direction. That's what the movie. It is. The art direction is fucking great in this movie.

And also Taylor Swift won album of the year in the 2021 Grammys for her album folklore. Interesting. It's just like Win Beneath my Wings. She's on the level, some would say. The song about the German inventor of the brassiere titled Otto Titzling was co-written by Bet Midler and was already put out in 1985 on her comedy album that I mentioned before. Mud will be flung tonight. I love that she did this like comedy vaudeville kind of nightclub. kind of album. Holden, I just don't understand why you got so judgmental about that the

musical sizzle as a Hillary. I really think that that was uncalled for it. I was so offended. I actually really loved that part. I love that part, but I will say that if I was at a body show and my husband was acting like that, I'd be like, done. I don't want to be with you. I'm over it. This is so annoying. This is makes you a gas. Dude, I've seen, I've seen. I've been. I've been, I'd start telling him about the porn I want. Yeah, especially because you could tell she was adapting his personality in that marriage. She wasn't like that before. Oh, I'd have been like, dude, I saw a guy eat a fucking log.

Yeah, bro. I saw it. Well, you're not a scat play. And after all of this. Yeah, definitely talking about breasts and shit eating are pretty much on the same level. After all of this, it wasn't taken well. and I am very upset. If there is something that I learned from doing this research,

I am mad that not everyone worships beaches the way that I do, that apparently producer Margaret South says when the film was finished, they were terrified to screen it for Disney's honchos because the stakes for their career were high. Gary Marshall sat outside in his car, she says, but he had nothing to worry about. Apparently David Hoberman, who was our Disney exec, a tough guy, fell on the first.

floor and burst into tears at the end of the movie. I always hear these anecdotes who falls on the floor? I did. I fell out. I was like, whoa! It's just such a funny. We always hear of this big reaction. It always involves someone falling to the ground, either screaming with laughter

or crying. I'm just like, what? That never happens. You slip all over your tears. South says she never guessed the movie would endure as it has. She says, we didn't win any awards, but when I say that I worked on the movie, people notice. People love beaches.

It's a good movie. It's fun. It's great. And the film comes out in December 21, 1981, 1988. But yes, it was critically panned when it came out. Gene Siskel called it, quote, a much too mechanical tear jerker. Bullshit. And then, and Minnie cited it as a retread of tearjerkers from the 1940s and 1950s, which

is interesting because I feel like we don't have that perspective because we didn't watch any of those movies they're referring to. But apparently it was very. it felt very, very much like a retread of movies that were popular a couple, a few decades before. And it's so funny because we just, not, especially our generation, maybe your, your parents' generation, or our parents' generation might have a different perspective, that might click with them. But I didn't understand it at all. It's like, I, this goes right over my head. Our parents weren't alive in 40s either, though.

Right. It's so, that's just, I don't like that. It's funny. So I guess there's a lot of movies that, yeah, we just never saw that they were saying this was, um, annoying of, I've lost my ability to talk. So don't worry, we were able, our generation was able to be floored by the television remake that they decided to do. I have seen it before. All right, Adina Mansell is Cecee,

me along is Hillary. I love Adina Mansell. And I was like, beaches sign me up. I thought she was evil. No, no, I'm thinking of the glee girl is evil. Yeah, no, she had. Idina Mansell is never evil. She's only pure and wonderful.

I love Edna Manzell was terrified of taking on the role of Cece Bloom. She said it's a beloved movie, and the role and Bet are amazing. It took a lot for me to even say yes. So this was in 2017. It was on Lifetime. Yeah, Lifetime, yeah.

And what is cute is that Bet Midler tweeted out her support and said, Can't wait to see Idita Manzella is Cece in Lifetime's beaches. Don't tell me the ending, which is kind of cute. I love that. The film is just 90 minutes long, and that

is in a large part why it's criticized for being, their relationship being a bit too shoved into a tight amount of time and therefore they couldn't really flesh things out and we couldn't really get the feeling that these people were really friends with each other. Jackie, would you agree? Yes.

I just, I'm not. Did you see it too? I saw enough of that? They updated it so that rather than being like under the boardwalk time period, it's set in like the 80s. And so they tried to update this story in a way that I appreciate that they tried to add in like racial issues as well.

But again, taking already a half an hour off of the story and adding in layers to it was not a good choice. It's just it's the movie. It was directed by Gary Marshall and starred Bettler. I don't know why you would try to even tackle that. They won the cash. And really, especially their lead single, which was, I don't understand people that aren't the same color as me. It just felt wrong. It was kind of fun.

But Idita Manzel was a... Very wordy, very mouthy chorus. Was a wedding singer. So she said, When Beneath My Wings has just been a part of my whole life because that's the most requested song because every little bar mitzvah boy would dance with his mom to it. So when I went into the studio to record it, that was the one time I actually wasn't as scared because I felt like I been singing this my whole life. Just do your thing. Channel bet.

Then they put a more modern, updated production underneath. So I just went in there and I just did it. Could you imagine having a Dina Mansell be your singer at your bar mitzvah or wedding? Like, unbelievable. Well, don't worry. We will talk about that when we do our rent pop history. but we're not going to talk about right now. This isn't a joke, but apparently a sequel based on the novel, Beaches 2, I'll Be there,

was planned with Barbara Eden but never filmed. But I will say, Beaches 2 just like. She's hilarious sounding. She's not dead. I just imagine just like digging her up. It just becomes like a Mike Myers thing. She just keeps coming after them and like trying to get her event. It takes place in heaven and it's Barbara Hershey's character's heaven experience.

That would be kind of boring. without Z-ZI. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super bored. There was a musical adaptation back in 2014. It never made its way to Broadway.

I have a couple of finishing quotes to close us out. What about you girls? Oh, no. All I really wanted to say is that Bet Midler is so good in this movie. She's great. Just really watching her performance this time, because I've seen it so many times,

She just crushes it. She's so charismatic and wonderful. It's hard to imagine somebody else doing that part. Yeah. I would be nothing without you. Gary Marshall said this about women. Oh, no. Yes, Gary Marshall had this to say about women.

It was really about how women fight. You know, I always say men fight, and they don't talk to each other for 20 years or they kill each other. Women fight, say terrible things to each other, and an hour later they make up and go shopping. I think they got the better idea of how it should be done. It's old school.

But also, I'm not closing on that. I'm closing on Rainer Darts quote, the author of the book. To me, that's the theme of every book I write. Meaningful human contact. Everything else is unimportant. And the Talmud, it says, when you speak from the heart, you penetrate the heart. So if I tell a story that moves me, it's going to probably move you. because at the bottom, we all want the same thing.

I just wish I had some sort of spear to put through your heart at the end of you saying that. Oh yeah, you want me to penetrate it. Oh, my God, my heart! You're my hero. Dude, you, you're dumb, dong, dong, do you. Titsling. Or do you wear?

Whoa. Or do you wear? All right, that's been our episode on beaches. hope you beaches enjoyed it. Thank you so much for joining us. You can check us on a Patreon, patreon.com for page 7 podcast. Honestly, it never gets old.

It never gets old. It's very funny. I kept it all week. I kept chuckling myself thinking about how it could have been. That. Yeah, and catch me, Twitch. Twitch.com slash Holdenators Ho.

Catch me outside. I just said that today. Doing a stream. Twitch. Dot TV ford slash Holdenators ho. Fridays at 6 p.m. ET. Jackie and I have a fun old party on there. What are you ladies, you women, you grow women.

Yeah, I'm not invited to that ever. You can go to that. Yeah. I just, my new show on LPN just came out. So I'm placed on me. It's about missing women. And you can follow that on Instagram and TikTok. And we'll probably do some Twitch too, me and Amber Nelson.

Hell yeah. And my name is Jackie. I am a robot. I've never cried at beaches. And you can follow me on Instagram at Jack. That word. Oh, right. Oh my God, she's a cyborg!

Oh, my gosh! She's killing us! We have to go! This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to Last Podcast Network.com.