Page 7 - Pop History: Cher Pt. I

Episode Date: January 19, 2021

We kick off our series on Cher by exploring her early years under the guidance (and thumb) of Sonny Bono.Want even more Page 7? I got you babe - support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/page7podcastKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0 Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I can't even do it. I can't sing her early music. I don't sound like her, but my mom definitely looked like young chair when we were growing up. You guys, welcome to the beginning. Bamp, oh, my God. Bump on you bet. You're thinking of the head and my little mountain glides.

I don't even think about the sunny chair. Put your booties on. I see that. Of course, we think about Groundhog Day. whenever we think about Sunny and Cher. But I think of Beavis and Butthead, to be honest. That too. We also have, but also the beat goes on.

Also, I didn't realize like how much they just wanted to be Bob Dylan, but that's fun. Man, have you ever, see, I've listened to her early stuff since the beginning of time. I'm obsessed with Cher. I love all of the different many, and you will hear over the hours of how many. different versions of Cher. There have been, yes, welcome to the beginning of the Share many parters. There's not going to be many parts. But her career is so insanely prolific that the beginning, that you have to realize,

Sonny and Share, which is such a huge part of how she began, all of it was done and over with by the mid-70s. Yeah, it's unbelievable how much. she was how much she came in and out of the cultural zeitgeist. And I love to see how she was not just like not a big deal after a while. People felt that she was actively lame for like long periods of time. And then she would be cool again. And then she would be actively lame as fuck again.

It just went back and forth and back and forth. That's how you have a long career though. I think everybody if who has a lifetime career goes through phases where they're like, ew, they're gross. Wait, they're ironically cool again. Wait, they're actually just normal cool again, and then they're lame again. Even in the beginning of the height of their fame, Sunny and Cher were never really cool. Their fashions were very cool.

I think that they were cool. But then we get into, which we'll talk about today. They were anti-drug. Even though they were a big part of the hippie movement or they seemed it, they were actually... They dressed like it, but that was about it. Yes, except for the free love, which we will also talk about. That was something that came in in time. That was more to a dysfunctional marriage more than a movement they were following.

Looking into all this, Sunny had a lot of major dad husband vibe. There was a lot of like, baby, beep, beep. Natalie alert, like when I was reading about Sunny and Cher, I was just like, Natalie going to have something to say about this one. Because it is very like he brought her in. She was 16, right? I believe 17. They met when she was 16, yeah.

And he brought her in and then had this domineering control over her. I see a lot of similarities between Mariah Carey's story and this story. A hundred percent. It seems like 50 to 70 percent of all of the women we've covered have basically been kidnapped at first. Like kidnapped into a successful career. Co-dependent relationship where it's like, but I gave you this career. And then they get to a point where they've outgrown the person that the rest of them. They're like, uh-uh, daddy.

I'm ready to pay my own way and do my own motherfuck and do my own motherfuck and. thing, blam, blam! And they'd shoot him with the gun and he goes, ah, I dodged it. And then they run out of the house. And I'm not saying the share shot a gun at Sonny, but metaphorically, maybe he did. Whoa. I do feel, though, that when it comes to these kind of stories like the Mariah Carey, like a share, that they saw what was happening to them as they were being groomed, which I, which is very inappropriate, but they took it and used it for their own advantage. They took the men that were holding them down and then with one long high-heeled foot, squashed them down underneath them as they lifted themselves up.

That is a very, very difficult thing to do after experiencing so much trauma in a relationship that how strong share is. Strayer is one of the strongest people I have ever read about. It's crazy. She's great. You could almost say it's thanks to those men, and we should be thanking them for causing those strifes, for causing all the trauma. Because how are they ever going to grow if they just are, oh, like, take it, oh, I'm taking care of. Oh, I'm protected sexually from adults. Ooh.

How are you going to have a successful record with that? That's stupid. You're right. You know, you get the will to fight. I will say, you know, I mean, yes. in a lot of ways, though, Cher would maybe not have her career quite like she got with

without Sunny, but also she didn't also understand how to fight for herself, I think, until dealing with that sunny stuff, especially at the end with all the legality stuff. And then she takes that energy and she just continues it through the rest of her life and even talking about, you know,

now that I'm already researching for part two and talking about, you know, Merrill Streep quotes from her just being like, share just fucking is no bullshit. Sherr will tell you exactly how she feels, exactly when she feels it. And I think a lot of that comes from her fight to get out from under Sunny's stronghold over her entire career. And again, I mentioned legalities because, I mean, he even made it legally impossible for her for a few years to do any acting or any singing because she finally didn't want to work with him before. And I love too that as we go along this story, she went and she made some like really interesting albums.

that he hated because he wanted her to fit into this very specific box. He's like, it's so funny how much he wanted to be Bob Dylan, because he was the opposite of Bob Dylan in the sense that she was like, I want to do a rock and roll record, and he was like, nah, nah, share? It's all about that old-timey folk music. It'll always be popular. It'll never go out of style. She's like, no, it's definitely going out of sight.

Even Dylan himself has adapted to what's happening. And I'm young, and I know what the kids want. You're old. And you have old wrinkled shitty balls. Let me take this, Sonny. Holden, you can speak to this. Guys in their late 30s have their, have their finger on the pulse. It's not the young teen girls who really get what's hip and jive.

I feel on Twitch, even, I feel like an elder statesman on Twitch. Like, I feel like I'm kind of crashing the party. Like, hey, everybody. You are too old. But, you know what? Technically. You grew the beard back. And now you're, you look.

at least three years younger. Really? I think he looks younger without the beard. Whoa. Oh my God. Wow. Lady fight. All I really want to do, though, which is obviously a Bob Dylan song, I really, I don't go ahead and say it. I think I like Shares' versions of early Bob Dylan more than Bob Dylan's versions of it. I can see. I can see. I mean, she's clearly a better vocalist technically, you know, so I can

totally see that. Not a big Dylan person. Also, she brings such an earthy quality to it. all know I have such a soft spot for women with deep voices. And something that she will come, part of the reason of why it's so difficult for she, especially to get her foot off the ground, her foot on the stairs. Yes, her foot on step one, I believe is the same. On step one is because, and you will see it as we start talking about it, that she sounded like a man and people were put off by it, which she does. doesn't at all. It's just, it was a, it was a different time period.

But I do think that's what gave her a little bit of that standing out edge was she brought, even though she is such a feminine person, there was a strength to her that I don't know there was a ton of in culture at the time where she kind of like, she grabbed, grabbed the, world by the lady, by the ovaries. You guys are great with the sayings just now. We are classic saying. Rhymistical cats. And everyone says grab the lady by the ovaries, take the step on step one.

And it really is fantastic. Well, you know, Natalie, I think that that case and point is, you know, and again, I'm jumping ahead a little bit. We're going to cover this a little bit better as we go. But, you know, even just the whole fashion side of things and how people were just like, you must leave this hotel woman. You are dressed so crazily.

Like, I mean, you can tell she always had this confidence. I mean, you see their outfits and stuff, and you think that their outfits are a reflection of the style at the time, but actually no, they were the tastemakers. Starting the trends. Totally. And I do want to throw it out there. Yes, I have been three different versions of Cher

for three different Halloween. Oh, you have? Yes, I have. My bestie, Madeline and I went as Sunny and Cher, because she's shorter than I am. She dresses Sunny and I dresses Cher. And I also dressed as Moonstruck Share with a Nain Witch's counterpart and

the Witches of Eastwick. Now, all these movies we will not be discussing today, but we will get into the sunny chair. And you know what was difficult? Wearing really tall boots and a very short skirt. Very difficult to do. It's so hard.

It's so hard sometimes, and I'm just glad somebody's finally talking about. Yeah, why don't know. They talk about these things we have to go through. Old that. Put the step on step one. Let us give a brief synopsis and then jump into the childhood of Cher.

Share is an American singer, actress and TV personality, known for distinctive control. Stralto singing voice and for going strong career-wise for over six decades. That's right. She really grabbed those ovaries by the hand. Yep. She first got popular in 19... Wait a second. If you're going to throw us under the bus, you just got bust.

Bussing. What do you mean? That was family saying. That's not what I said. You changed it. I'm sorry. She grabbed the ovaries from the woman. Grab the world by the ovaries.

Yes. She grabbed the world by the ovaries. First getting popular in 1965 as Sunny and N. share with her husband and their song I got you babe they later had a hugely popular comedy show called the Sunny and Share Hour where she became known as a fashion trendsetter. She also

had a very popular solar career starting in the 70s and then in the 80s she gets in a Broadway in film acting with such hits as the Witches of Eastwick a Moonstruck before reviving her music career in the late 80s and early 90s and then again in the late 90s early 2000s that stuff will cover in a later episode we're going to be

focusing more on the sunny and share years because this woman has been seriously famous for several decades. So we got to take it a decade at a time here and go all the way back to her birth. She was born in El Centro, California in 1946 with the name Sherilyn Sarkisian. I believe is the Sarkisian. Her mother almost had her aborted because she was so young and knew she didn't want to be with the father and actually got off the operation table at the very last minute saying, I can't do this. I don't care what happens. I can't do this. And kept the share,

as they say. We wouldn't have a share. That's it. No abortions for anyone. You know, I think to each their own, for sure. But either way, she kept this one and she ended up being a motherfucker superstar. She grew up poor without a father, which is kind of why I think she probably thought about aborting the child.

Well, she did meet up with her dad a little bit later on. She hadn't met him really until she was 11 years old. So, John San Sarkisian was an Armenian-American truck driver, which I believe is she does very much... Do you believe in life after love? No, she felt...

No, I'm talking about the half-breed years, that she did feel a connection with her Armenian roots after she met up with her dad. She even said about her father, he was charming like you cannot believe. But he had some larceny in him. He had a criminal past. So she had a very tenuous relationship with him. I guess relationship is even the word for it. Now, she did have an interesting relationship with her mother, Natalie.

Yeah. So there's a really great, very short watchable doc called Dear Mom Love Share that came out in 2013 that is so fascinating. And it made me obsessed with her mother. So if you don't hear them talk about it, it does. Her mom sounds really bad, but when they go through their story, her mom is fucking badass. And she was super hot. And she came from this kind of very horrible, poor roots kind of situation where her dad was 21 and her mom was 13 years old when she was born. So, yeah, she ended up becoming almost like, it's not the vaudevillian time, but she kind of, her father was a singer and he taught her how to sing.

And she became kind of famous, not famous, but she was on like, I Love Lucy and Harry and Ozzie. What is that show called? Ozzie and Harriet? Yes. One of them old-timey shows. She was a regular in all these things. And she, the reason that she got off of that table, she got pregnant by this. by her husband and she was like married to him because that's what you're supposed to do at the time.

And her, she didn't want to stay with this guy. She didn't like him, but she got pregnant. So she went to her mom and said, I don't want to stay with my husband. And she said, her mom said, you can stay with me, but you have to get an abortion. And so she was about to do it. And she said, I can't do it. And her mom said, well, you can't stay here then. You got to go back to the husband. And so her mom ended up getting married eight times. Yes. Which was like a not a normal, thing for that time period. She was kind of... Three of those times, I believe, were to Shears'

To the same man, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, even though it sounds like she's like kind of a hectic, crazed person, she otherwise was kind of a square. She didn't, like, do drugs and, like, beat her kids or anything, but she had a really weird... What a lameo.

She doesn't even beat her kids. I know. Although, I will say she did say she hid her, but she said my mom was from the South, and it was just the kind of thing they did. I think, yeah, like, maybe, like, disciplinary slap. and stuff.

I guess more. So Natalie watched this doc because I immediately was like, oh, her mom didn't treat her right because the things I read was like she was in and out of orphanages where like her mom would come and visit her every day where it's like, that's great that her mom's visiting her every day. I think that's good. So at least gave her a place to live. But in my brain, I'm like, well, she's marrying all these men and she's living her

life for herself. But it seems like she wasn't living her life to take care of her children. No, she was totally. Okay, so that story, in this doc, it's really. enlightening because you hear that side of the store and you're like oh that sounds terrible and then you hear them talk about it and what happened was when she decided to not abort Cher and went back to the husband he was kind of a bum and they didn't have any money and so at the time what you could do they moved to scranton and her the share's father went to New York to try to make money and you could put your kid in a home if you were like a woman without a husband and her mom was working in a diner for 12 hours a night so they could try to make enough money to feed the kids. And when she, it was just like a couple months she put her in this home. And when she went to

go try to get the kid back, the orphanage wouldn't let her have the kid. They were like, you should let her get adopted by somebody else. And she didn't know, there was no way to get a hold of her husband in New York at the time because it was back in the day. And so they had to like fight. And she had to actually make friends with the town councilman in Scranton to get share out of the orphanage. Because it was so hard to go against the church at the time. And the church was just like, you can't have your kid back. And then you just are supposed to accept that. I do love this line, though, between Cher and her mother that in a 1996 interview with Jane Polly,

Cher recalled her mother advising her to marry a rich man, to which she famously replied, Mom, I am a rich man. And I love Cher. Now, Cher definitely did drop out of high school at the age of 16 because I think that it is another, I feel like real identifying trait of divas and people that can make it over and over again is that she knew what she wanted to be young. She was ready to be famous. She dropped out of high school at 16. She said, I hated school because I didn't fit into the right spaces. I was always thinking about something else. I was thinking about when I was grown up and famous where I'd want to live or who I'd go out with or what kind of dresses I would wear. I wasn't into high school and classes. at all. Yeah, I think one thing that she reminds me a little bit of me in one way and then totally not me in this other way. She was looking around and like her mom's like, you need stability. You don't want to live like this. And she's like, if being stable is living like our neighbors,

then I don't really want to have that kind of life. And she also wanted, you know, she wanted to be famous so young. And she also, she said, I remember being really ashamed of my clothes. I was so hard on my shoes. My mom would say, Jesus Christ, share, we can't afford shoes. Stop this. I remember going to school with rubber bands around my shoes to keep my souls on, but it wasn't always like that. We ate a can of stew or a can of beans

one week, and then sometimes we lived in Beverly Hills. It was a very strange life. The thing that's not like me, though, is that she was super poor growing up, as we mentioned. And that's what gave her, I think, the drive, the, like, that absolute, just nose to the ground, I'm just going to fucking beat against this brick wall until I bash through it. Well, I also feel that it was trying

define what she was good at because Cher also suffers from dyslexia. And at the time period, that was not seen as something that was an issue. It wasn't, you know, I don't think that the idea of dyslexia was around at that point. I think they just called you simple, like put you in a class of dumb. Which is why she was like, but I'm better than this. I can do more than this. And I think it pushed her because she ended up moving to Los Angeles at the age of 16. Yeah, yeah. I do want to give one little anecdote from her. her schooling years before we move on to Sunny. In fifth grade, she actually produced her own performance of the musical Oklahoma for her

class and directed and choreographed the dance routines, organizing a group of girls to do the show. She was unable to convince any boys to do it with them, so she played all the male roles, which may have a little something to do with the development of her low voice. Also, in the future, we get that amazing West Side story performance where she plays all the roles. I think was maybe inspired by this moment. I can't wait to watch that again. It's so good. And then also around the age of 16

When she drops out of high school It's around this time she has a fling with Warren Beatty Who is 25 at the time So that's fun Weren Bady's just all kissing all these young girls Everyone I feel like everybody kissed Warren Bady During our histories Oh yeah

It does seem like it I didn't get to But I don't think I'm his type Well now I'm far too old And I don't think he goes to Clearwater Florida a whole lot Maybe he did though You don't even get it

What we do there So either way, now we get to the Sunny stuff. She meets Sunny Bono, a protege of Phil Specter at the time, at Aldo's coffee shop in 1963, famous coffee shop. He was 11 years old. He was 11 years older than her. She was 17. Yeah, the opposite.

The opposite. He was 11 years older than her. So at the time, Sunny was working for Phil Specter. Sunny admitted he was Phil's flunky while he assisted with everything, producing, arranging, engineering, singing background and playing percussion, even running errands and bringing Spector coffee when he wanted it. So he was the head assistant to Phil Spector, and if you're not aware of who Phil Spector is, he's another Bidman who happened to produce a lot of great music and really ruin and use a lot of talent for his own gain. Phil Spector is another not very good person. Also ruining the cool name of Spector for the rest of time because that's a great last name.

Yes, it really is. And he is a nightmare person. And Sonny was working for said nightmare person. And I really feel like that explains a lot of how he felt that he had control over share. They didn't immediately start dating either. He brought her in, of course, I think that, you know, he may have had a couple things. on his mind, but they did straight up just bump into each other

in a coffee shop in 1962 and Sonny then introduced Cher to Specter and Cher then starts working as a session singer and singing background vocals for like the Ronnettes be my baby the righteous brothers, you've lost that loving

feeling. You've lost that loving feeling which is such a classic, yeah, it's kind of amazing. Darling loves a fine, fine boy. This is like how insane is it that you show up in L.A. and of course It is just, she meets him, this is a way in. It's like, I feel like at this point in time, she's like, I'll do whatever I have to do to get to go and be able to immediately work with Phil Specter.

Including seeing this tiny man's penis. Tiny man, he's a tiny man. She goes on to say he was just like the father. You know how you can be frightened of your father even if he doesn't ever do anything? It wasn't like, I mean, he never hit me. never really yelled at me. He could be tough, though. He could be real tough in that kind of horrible, tough Sicilian way.

I couldn't stand on my own two feet and talk back to him. That was my problem. I could just never, ever talk back to him. And so I never got any of my needs met that weren't what he felt they should be. Now, I would say that is a person speaking who has been traumatized and who is saying, oh, it was my problem because I wouldn't speak back to him, but we don't need to go into all of the analysis. that. Not because you are an actual child. No, no, no, no, definitely not because of that. But she did say that she was crazy about him on so many levels. He was really everything to me. And after I had Chaz, I started to grow up and he wouldn't allow it. And I was just starting to really, he was starting to kill my spirit. So this is the beginning of them creating the spirit together. Yeah. And I will again, in defense of her mother, because I am kind of obsessed with her mother. Whenever she started seeing Sunny, her mom was like enraged. And she was.

Like, Sherr had to hide it for a while. And when her mom found out, she said, I'm going to call the police and put him in jail. And so she just left home. And that's kind of when they, that is when Sharon Sunny professed their love for each other, is kind of the force the issue with the mom freaking out. And then they go have an unofficial wedding ceremony in a hotel room in Tijuana in late 1960. Also, did we mention also that she, so Cher's roommates kicked her out. And that's how she ends up living with Sunny.

And Sunny's like, you can live here as well. As long as you, for free, but you just have to do the housekeeping. She never did any housekeeping. Which I think is very funny. No, she did it. But they slept in separate beds, too. It's a very weird scenario, honestly. Very, very, very.

Because it really, like, it was a very, like, a creepy father situation. But now, like, I feel like the idea of daddy boyfriend is a part of some relationships. And that is what they had. Back then for sure, because women weren't really allowed to be by themselves. Well, let's add another thing to it. As she suffered from horrible stage fright, so she had Sunny join her on stage to sing harmonies and first debuted under the name Caesar and Cleo. However, their initial singles were poorly received,

but she would stare at Sunny while singing on stage to help with her nervousness and said she sang to people through him. Just a very, very codependent relationship, even on the stage. at that time, which is so funny because then they become known later for share shitting on Sunny all the time with stage banter, but we haven't gotten there yet. Right now, she's literally needs him just to be on stage. She needs to stare at him while she sings the song to forget the audience is there. I do love that. So they were originally called Caesar and Cleo, which was yes, based on Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor's movie Cleopatra. So that was their original name. Also at this, this point in time, Cher put out a song called by under the name Bonnie Joe Mason. So Cher was 18 years old when she released her first single alone called Ringo I Love You. It was produced by Phil Spector and it tanked. Why did it tank? The song was rejected by many radio station programmers and eventually banned because they thought Cher's deep singing voice were a man's

vocals. Therefore, they believed it was a male homosexual singing a love song dedicated to the Beatles drummer, Ringo Starr. But it wasn't before long when she's teamed up with Sunny Bono. And so this is when she, so Bonnie Joe Mason, Caesar and Cleo, so at this point in time, too, right before they start Sunny and Cher, they started making songs under four different names. So you had Sunny and Cher, you had Caesar and Cleo, you had Sunny Bono, and you had Cher. All four of them were signed, well, not Share and Sunny because they were together, but technically underneath the different labels. And that was very smart of them to do to at least season out their songs. And not that they were pretending to be other people, but it definitely

helped people listen to all four of their different varying music that they were putting out. I was to say real quick, I will also say that Ringo song, very fun. It's totally on Spotify. I was gonna ask. I was gonna ask if you heard it because I haven't listened to that song. It's a great song. It's very old school Beatles-y sounding.

And it's kind of funny that they thought because I think at point she's like, I want to be your girl, all this kind of stuff. So it's just funny that they thought it was a guy singing it. People are dumb. People are silly.

But also all I really want to do, again, the 1965 share album is one of my favorite albums and you should order to check that out. Again, it's a young sound. So this is around this time period where she was still, and you could see

because she's singing a bunch of covers and she's singing background of people. At this point in time, she's just trying to get her name out there. Whatever Phil Spector and whatever Sunny wanted her to do, she was going to do. And it's not that I don't think, she didn't have any choice.

Yeah. Well, she really, I had no idea she was that young during the Sunny and Cher era because she presents herself as more mature or something. Maybe it's even just her bones. or some yeah maybe the deep voice it's the height it's her it's her height it's her it's her lower voice she all and she always exuded this like this at least the share we've always seen not

the she not the caesar and cleo share but she always exuded this confidence i totally stage presence that you think she's older than she really is and i i totally said also let's and we're going to get into more of this but because she's hanging out with sunny all she hangs out with is like older people It's very funny, too. Their big hit starts out. The first lyric is like, listen, we're too young and we don't know. We.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It says we are too young. Which is, by the way, a good segue, by the way. So one late night in their basement, Sonny sits down and writes the lyrics to I Got You Babe. And I never thought about this, but it's totally like a response to Bob Dylan's song, It Ain't Me, Babe.

Man, he was weirdly obsessed with Bob Dylan. Obsessed with Bob Dylan. But so was she, clearly. I mean, I mean, she was. all about it too with all I really want to do. I mean, honestly, I think you couldn't not avoid Bob Dylan, and if you're really into being a singer-songwriter

in the mid-60s... Listen to her version of Don't Think Twice, it's All Right. As someone that was ruined by that song, because someone broke up with me on a CD, beginning with the Don't Think Twice, it's All right. What? I... Wow. You got a breakup CD?

I got breakup CD. I think it's better than a Post-It, but we don't need to talk about sex in the city right now. I, but the version that Cher puts out, exudes a whole different energy. Oh, her early stuff is so raw and beautiful. It is just her singing. So going back to, I got you, babe,

Sonny's like, this is going to be great. He wakes Cher up and he said to sing the lyrics. And then Cher's just like, I hate this song. This song's never going to make it. You're terrible. and I'm going back to sleep. So I think that's hilarious. I love it too.

So he originally, he shows it to her, and then he goes in and he sings it for the label, because Sonny and Cher's manager at ACCO records, like Cher, was also unimpressed. Sunny was pushing for the song to be the single. The Atco manager said the song could only be a B-side of It's Gonna Rain. Sunny Bono convinced an L.A. radio station to play the track, and it started picking up popularity.

So that's, again, it's another one of these things where Sonny brought to Cher, Sher hated it. Sunny brought it to Echo Records, they hated it. He went right to the radio. I was like, play this song, and they did.

And it is that kind of assholery that sometimes it takes to get you where you got to go. I don't have that. This is my problem. This is something that I've always said that I'm just like,

I'm not enough of, like, someone that pushes, advocates for myself. I am not of a, like, I'm not enough. the go-getter in the way that Sunny and Cher were at this time period. I'm never going to be this. And that's okay. You got to go find yourself a nice 17-year-old boy.

There you go. Or a rich man. What am I doing with my life? I am a rich man, mama. I will say, Jackie, you do understand the whole, you know, with your year in fashion that you do every year. You do understand that angle of it because a big part of their launch, besides this hit single, is actually coming from their clothing weirdly enough and their interesting

style. The Rolling Stones apparently are who convinced them to go to England because they're having a hard time really doing, making it big in America. So they go to England and they're very first night. But Sunny and Cher and their managers, Charlie Green and Brian Stone, all sold their cars to raise the money for them to get the plane tickets to go to London in the first place. So they're putting everything into this. So that's what you have to think about right now. They've gotten this far They're going to London

The stones say And then they get to London And They get kicked out of their London Hilton Hotel The very first night Because of their outfits It's like pretty woman

This actually though This actually could not have been Better for them Because it makes them this overnight sensation Like in the tabloids That's great So that's kind of

It's the combination The one two punch Of their interesting look Mixed with this hit single Now they're in the fashion Now they're in the spotlight they can now really emulate the youth culture at the time with their fashion, their bell bottoms, their striped pants, their ruffled shirts and fur vests.

They're just sporting all these looks. Oh my God, look at the fashion of them at this time period. It's so fun. And also even Cher said, when I was young, we got beaten up for looking the way we looked. Maybe some people thought I looked ridiculous, but that was okay by me. Look, I had started out as a skinny little kid from the valley, and now I'd become a one named enigma called Cher. I love Cher.

You got to. You got to take risks with fashion and style if you want to become an icon. You can't, if you're just doing the status quo, maybe nobody will make fun of you, but you're also, that's what you are. You got to shake it up a little bit. I'm Norm Corp. You are Norm Corp. So either way, she, she, so, so they put out their first album, Sunday and, under Sunday and

Cher with, look at us, that's the name of their first album. It's super successful, and between 1965 and 1972, they're pumping out the hits. Baby don't go. The beat goes on. All I ever need is you, and the Cowboys work is never done. Oh, when I look at Sunny, I just think, what a big, strong, mean cowboy. Now, hard he works. Cowboys never done.

He's never done. But then Cher strikes out on her own. She has success with her own solar arms. I say on her own, but Sunny is controlling all of it. Everything. But she does put out the sunny side of Cher and her cover,

and that has her cover of a, or maybe, I'm not sure if it has it or not, but either way she puts out her cover of, bang, bang, my baby shot me down. Which is amazing. The album Share releases in 1966 and then With Love Share in 1967.

I've been banging through these albums over the past couple days and really enjoying what I'm hearing. I'm like, am I going through a share phase? Yes, you are. Join us in our share phase because I'm throwing out there, all I've been listening to. And she has so much music, it's crazy.

If you're, it's like, oh, I feel like dancing. You can put on a different album. Oh, I just, I need a contemplative morning cup of coffee. She's got that for you too. I want some, you know, rap rock. I want some, some, some, some auto-tuned. No rip-rap quite yet, but. Yeah, yeah.

I want some auto-tuned hip-hop, and you've got that. You know what I mean? I want to feel like I'm singing on a battleship wearing spandex. Hell yeah. I want to feel like I'm whisked away. And there is that for you. Now, the one thing that you can never have, though, is getting stoned as balls with Cher. Because Cher and Sunny Bono were openly, actively anti-drug.

They put out anti-drug PSAs. In fact, it really alienated a lot of what could have. been their audience, I feel. I mean, obviously they were doing fine, but a big sector didn't trust them because they were so open. Now, Cher said my father was a heroin addict. My sister's father was an alcoholic, but it jumped us. I didn't do drugs. I didn't, I didn't not do drugs because of moral issues. I tried a couple of drugs, but I never felt good out of control. I have the constitution of a fruit fly. I can't do coffee, but I can do drugs. Dr. Pepper. And that also, again, makes her lovable again. So she never, she never went through

a drug face? No. No. Also, too, you know, they're, you know, they're kind of the face of monogamy, when monogamy's not super cool during the summer of love in these years. I know they kind of, really secretly, though, opened the relationship up in later years as Sunny and Cher, but, but even with that, I mean, I think they just seem come off as super lame in 1969. Is that also how they kind of forged into the TV world, like because they were sort of squeaky clean, they were able to sort of corral that into a TV career. They could kind of be both. They could kind of have this hippie aesthetic in fashion and this, that, and the other,

and maybe even in their sound, but also please, mom and dad. Sort of like a Will Smith almost, you know. Yeah. But I will say, before they struck gold with going to TV with their, squeaky clean image, they failed hard first by trying to make their own movies. Now, I watched parts of good times. You did? The parts that I could find.

So at this point in time, they're doing well. They're rocking and rolling. They're finally becoming the entity that they wanted to become. And then there's good times. Now, Good Times is I didn't know about Good Times. I'm throwing out there. I didn't know about Good Times. I didn't know about Chastity.

Good Times is directed by first time director of William Friedkin, who would later do French Connection and The Exorcist. But The Exorcist, this was not. I love the reviews I read of Good Times were very funny because, again, they were trying something new. You can see that Cher has always, and especially now, look. back at her career, she's wanted to be able to do it all and be as good as she can at all of it. And this movie was apparently just a no man's land between exuberant junkiness of the Elvis movies and the satirically inclined sophistication of the Beatles romps, which they definitely were trying to tow the line of making like another Beatles type movie. It was starring, who else? Sunny and Cher.

And it was, their characters were Sunny and Cher. And they contemplated a move from the recording studio to the soundstage. And then there was a villain named Mr. Mordecus, played by George Sanders, who is a smooth talking producer who wants to make a quick buck by casting the couple in a low-budget quickie that may or may not involve upwardly mobile hillbillies. So they're playing them, playing them in a movie. and then they come up with all these different scenarios of like Sunny imagining himself

like in a musical. What if Sunny were in a Tarzan parody? It's just so corny. It sounds like it's kind of trying to be like the monkeys a little bit or trying to be like all those all those musicians you know hard, hard days night and help. Failed, failed, failed.

It sounds so kind of fun like a fun stupid. Was it fun stupid Jackie? Survey says. Boring. It was just boring. It was just so. they didn't, in my own personal opinion, I felt like they needed more,

like if they had made this movie, if they had stayed together and made this movie like 10 years down the road, I would have been very interested to see what they had to say. But they were still in that, like, not puppy love, obviously. They never really had puppy love.

But they were in an upward moving place. And I feel like it would be much different if they were at the lower end. Well, that's how they get great with Sunny and Share because I think that what makes Sunny and Share, what gets them picked up, spoiler alert, and we'll get to it more later, is that banter and is Sonny, is Cher rather shitting on Sunny in banter and stuff,

and that gives them this interesting dynamic, whereas right now they're trying to have this squeaky, clean, fun times, energy. And then the whole cultural zeitgeist is changing. There's Vietnam, there's Led Zeppelin and Cream, and Cher is trying to get, is now challenging Sunny. This is the first time she's challenging Sonny. She's being like, I want to make a rock and roll album. Like I said before, she goes off, she makes backstage, which is pretty great,

It flops, but I think in hindsight, it's a solid album. It's a bit more eclectic. It's got a little bit more going on. And then in 1969, she does her six solo album called 3614 Jackson Highway, which was done without Sunny's oversight and experiments in soul music. It is considered one of her best albums. But Sunny dislikes it and forbids anything else like it moving forward. And yeah, Jackie, speak towards this awesome, like, she totally found a cool direction.

And then Sunny's like, no, it's too. interesting. It's too fun. And it's because it didn't involve him. She could have done anything and it didn't involve him and he hated it. And so I think to her and what I would assume is that she

wanted him to like things so desperately, but she was also struggling at this point in time of wanting to start doing her own shit. So it is this back and forth. Please 36, 14 Jackson Highway. It is a

great album. It's on Spotify. Spotify, listen to everything you want there. Never abandon it. Never abandon it. We're company men. Uh, share did say it. By the way, I think I went out two times alone the entire time I was married to Sonny. Very unhealthy sounding relationship. She's a teenager when they meet. She becomes a woman in the years since. And Sunny couldn't keep the same dynamic he had a full control over his little star. He even said to her one day you were going to leave me. You going to go on and do great things. So you knew it was in the cards. Yeah, bitch. He also, though, and this is the big turning point,

he sets up Share Enterprises, of which he owned 95%. Don't worry now that the other 5% went to the lawyer. So actually you should worry about it. Share has no fucking control over any of this. This is when she gets, this is why she later gets into the legality enterprises. Yeah, called Chair.

Enterprises. But I will say that she does go on later on. We will talk about this with Sonny's death, that she's all. always says that Sunny treated her more like a golden goose than like his wife. She says, I forgive him, I think. He hurt me in so many ways. But there was something. He was so much more than a husband, a terrible husband, but a great mentor, a great teacher.

And he was trying to, even though file her down into his own image because she was everything he could never really truly be. But I think that he was, even though this is a fucked up thing to say, I feel like he did, do it out of respect and also a finder's fee. It's such a complex situation. It's such a classical American relationship where he's showing his profound love for this child by sticking his penis in her and stealing all her money. That was because he respected her.

And by this time, he's banging side pieces. So he's not even being monogamous. He's banging side pieces. It's because he's insecure about this up-and-comer that he's fucking groomed who's going to leave him. They, and this is, by the way, all 1969. She gives birth to at the time, Chastity Bono, but now

Chas Bono, I think that's the last time you're going to hear the word chastity, but now Chaz and we'll definitely be getting into that in later episodes. But either way, she gives birth to Chas, 1969, the two get married in America, I guess, because they only had that, like, fake Tijuana wedding. Cher said, one woman or even

five was not enough for him. So while she's given birth to his kid, under his thumb, he creates this legal situation that she can't get out from under where he benefits completely and he's still slamming away. I'm talking one after the other. They're coming and be like, which hoe do you want, sonny? And he's like, I want all them holes. I'm going to nickname you bowling ball. She's just like, please, nickname me bowling ball. Should I call you master? And he's like, yeah, I'm 100% a cannibal. I'm sorry, I was talking about Army Hammer. Oh, my God. Also,

I always had to get the kids bowling balls because I don't have a lot of upper body strength. But now talk about another mistake that Cher would go on to make. And yes, that was making the movie Chastity. I have a theory about Chastity. I think Chastity was their intent at making an easy rider. A hundred thousand percent. Yeah, it's like a road movie, like a hippie road movie. Share on the road.

And it was supposed to be, this was supposed to be the vehicle for Cher, the actress. And it was directed by Alessio DiPaula, who apparently dropped out of the movie. industry afterwards. Written by Sonny. It was self-written and self-produced. And so they put all of the money into this flop and a half that it was 98 minutes of Cher's character hitchhiking to Mexico and finding ways to kill time. That is literally what the movie is about.

And I watch a good... Because again, I love me some share. I will watch it But it There's not a whole lot happening At the very least Critics seem to understand That Sunny is a hack

When it comes to making movies And that Cher did show Some promise as an actor That did emerge in this film They were like you know what She has potential But clearly like If she could just get out from under

This awful writing Like they called it out Like exactly what it was So And also this was around the time even in this review from the, from 1969, said that the movie further blurred Shares status, which lay somewhere between muse and meal ticket.

And even then, before the Sunny and Share Comedy Hour, which is why I think she had to reinvent to make it seem like, no, she did have more control in the relationship, which is why I feel that they brought that dynamic to the Sunny and Share Comedy Show so that it looked like she was, had more control than she actually did. Well, but it actually, from what I've read, it came organically because now they are

bitter underdogs. And now they're forced to go around as this nightclub act. And like, it's the classic, we are. What year is this around? This is what 70? 1970. Yeah. So she's like a full grown adult woman.

Yes. Now she's a full grown adult woman. She has full breasts and a vagina and all of it. And a belly button that is a star. And a belly button. that will not stop. Yeah. And so they go around,

but I think that's how, what made it conducive for their dynamic that was so popular at the time is I don't think you had a lot of this. Yeah, because at this point in time, she's like 25, 26. I had to do the math.

Yes, I had to be quiet and do the math. She was about 25, 26. I appreciate it. And she's frustrated. And so is Sunny. And they're going around these shitty nightclubs and they're dealing with these drunks

and dealing with these hecklers. Because again, they lost so much money after doing this movie that they put all the money into because again this is not the first nor the last time that Cher

will have no money. That's another thing to think about that you think of Sher and you're like but she's been a celebrity forever but people but she wasn't the diva then and how many times she went back to the bottom and so right before the Sunni and Cher

comedy hour she they had nothing so that's why they had to do the nightclub acts so so so they're there with the drunks and the hecklers. Share then starts saying, fuck this, starts talking back to the hecklers. Then Sonny's like,

Share, baby, hold on a second. He tries to hold her back like he does. So then she's like, oh, then fuck you too, start shitting on Share. People love it. And because this huge hit, it catches the eye of CBS's head of programming who offers them the show,

the Sunny and Share Comedy Hour, premiering in the summer of 1971. Actually, before that, too, it catches the eye of some other people who it leads them to getting primetime guest appearances on different random shows and then also again

shares very eye-catching low-cut sexy clothing because of Bob Mackey and it was Bob Mackey making all the costumes which makes so much sense Yeah she's like a smoke show But at the same time she's talking mad shit to her own husband

I don't think people really saw that much before on TV And I think people loved seeing that dynamic I even wrote down some examples as I was watching clips from the Sunny and Cher show. So examples of what they're interchange would be. Sunny, Cher, come on, stop it. My friends are out there watching the show.

Hi, dopey. Hi, Doc. What's with you tonight? Just take it easy. Will you please? What? If you were sitting out there and watching us, you know, right now, be honest. What would you say?

Share would say, I'd say the same thing everybody else says. what does she see in that man So it's that kind of So it's like almost like Muppet style Back and forth But also like a lot of truth is coming out of her mouth The whole time Yeah, for sure, because he's been so frustrated

Being under his fucking grip I mean that's why I say it came so organically Between Sunny being this annoying Overseer of her whole life And this shitty audience that they've had to tour around with It just leads to this great dynamic Really a businessman where he wants went, I can see that you hate me.

How can we make money from them? I mean, kind of. Or that's what they, I mean, another interchange. Sunny, before we go on, I just want to remind you of what day this is. It's a very unlucky day. Share, you mean Tuesday the fourth? Sunny. No, it's Friday the 13th.

What's Tuesday the fourth? Share, the day we got married. Oh, ha. But I think that you are right, though, and I would assume that this is the first time that I feel like, you know, we had the archie. bunkers. We had the other instances of married life like this, but not with a woman saying these things to the man. It flipped it. To the moon. I think that was fun. Especially when she's taller than him. I mean, the whole thing just was so cartoonish in that sense. Natalie, is that why you're just so

mean to my brother? Because you're so tall and beautiful. Wow. No, she's very nice. And just like Henry and Natalie End each night by singing this they ended every episode singing I got you babe And you guys do that

Every night? Yeah but I do it I do it the Beavis and Butthead version Hell yeah And sometimes Chastity would come out And it just gave them this look Of this ideal family

At the same time amongst all the shit Talking everything I will say also There were regular cast members And sketches such as Terry Gar Who we talked about In our Young Frankenstein episode

and Steve Martin, who was also a writer on the show. So they had really good comedy backings in terms of the writer's room in terms of their special guests and stuff. And I love these old-timey variety shows with music and sketches and everything. You know, he-ha. We got to do that episode on heat. But either way.

Another strain on the relationship during this time was that Sunny failed to get share a hit. So her label at the time, Cap Records, pulled in a dude named Snuff Garrett, which is a great name. An old snuff produced her second number one hit Gypsies tramps and bees It's a very difficult song to do is karaoke

I'm gonna throw that out there She also put an all-ballot album together with snuff Called Foxy Lady who then quit as her producer Because he's having issues with fucking Sonny About what share should be recording This guy comes in totally gets Cher Totally gets where she should go takes her there And then Sunny's like I know I know I know

the way. I mean, I know I gave you a bunch of failures recently, but I know what's best. So, yeah, then Sunny has a release, an album of standards. Again, like the old man direction. It totally fails. Gypsy's Trampson Themes was like totally the

great direction for her to go in, but now Sonny takes back over. But still, with the song written specifically for Cher, Snuff went back to her to release an album and third number one single for her called Halfbreed, about the daughter of a Cherokee mother and a white father.

And that, so again, Snuff is clearly giving her what she needs in her career. Sonny is weirdly just doing everything to stop it, even though all he has to do is sit back and count the money. I know. I don't even understand. It's just all a control thing. It is.

It is, for sure. It's a control thing. Even at this point, Sherwood's talking about at one point why the Sunny and Share Comedy Hour was disbanded. And she says, if you watch the Sunny and Share Comedy Hour, you assumed I was this wisecracking girl who ran our lives off stage because Sunny seemed so meek and easy going, ha, in real life he was the Sicilian dictator husband. I could say nothing.

We were in the top ten. We had all this money. Everybody told me how lucky and happy I was when actually I weighed 93 pounds, was constantly sick, could not eat, could not sleep. I got suicidal and I thought, either I'm going to leave Sunny or I'm going to jump out. a window. Cool. So at some point, Cher tells Sonny,

then she jumped out of window. No, she did it. At some point, at some point, Share tells Sunny, she is seeing the guitarist from the show. And eventually, the band of the Sunny and Share Hour.

And eventually, they stay publicly married, but they have new partners secretly and even have these people joining them at their mansion. Yes. So this is, yeah, it's the whole thing's in shambles.

They're just holding it together. for the show. The tabloids were all filled with how they hated each other about the shouting matches, that they would cancel gigs last minute, and they would, uh, reports of Cher also sporting a black eye at this point in time. She was also asked, and Cher was asked, at one point, wasn't he living with another woman in the same house with you while you were still married? Cher said, yeah, but we were fine with that. We had a strange relationship. I don't expect anybody to understand it because it was our relationship and it worked for us. I can't explain it because it was weird.

It was just weird. But I know what it was. And it was what it was. I'm sure she was happy that he just wasn't gripping on to her. I mean, at that point, like, but then he's horrible to her. She's not, you know, like not really allowed to be banging other people, but he has another woman living in the house. Oh, he wouldn't even let her have lovers or anything.

Oh, fuck him. I think he allowed it as long as it wasn't around him or he didn't, like he was the one that was openly, again, another woman living in the house. Come on, you fuck. Well, and it's around this time that Cher actually finds out about this whole not having any control over her business situation. It really took till now, as the marriage is in shambles, that she actually owns nothing, that she's not only owns nothing, but is prohibited from working on her own. Because of the contract.

contract she's signed. And so, so this leads to a huge court battle. And weirdly enough, a new player enters the arena as they, as she's battling over custody over Chaz as well as, uh, control, ownership over her stuff. She wasn't even asking for ownership. She straight up was asking. She said, she said, I went to him and said, look, break the contract. Let us draw up a new contract.

Make it 50-50. You can't tell me what to do anymore. I'm 27 years old. You can just not tell me. what to do and he wouldn't do it and he just didn't count on how tough I could be because I never argued with him one time. I don't think we had more than three arguments in 11 years. She was asking just to be an equal partner, not even to own Share Enterprises. And so, oddly enough, David Geffen Oh man. The stories of Sharon David Geffen, I'm not going to get into two.

many of them, but please look into their love affair because it's sick as shit. Wait, what kind of sick? Sick good or sick bad? Yeah, what are we talking about? Oh, fun. No, no, no, in a fun way. Give us something. Well, oh, no, we'll get into it, but let's finish out this divorce.

Sure, sure. Let's get done with the divorce first. Let's get done with divorce because she's already moving on. sessions that happened afterwards. So, yeah, David Gavin comes in. He's the record exec. We've talked about them before. I don't know.

I forget to what capacity we've talked about David Gavin a lot. in episodes between here and Wizard and the Bruiser, oddly enough. But either way, they start an affair, but also he's just helping her get out of her business arrangement with Sunny. Cher said, if he had agreed to just disband Share Enterprises and start all over again, I would have never, ever left. Gaffin instead gets her a $2.5 million deal with Warner Brothers Records. Because of this time, David Geffen is the, he co-created asylum records, which was huge.

he ends up creating Geffen records. And then he ends up, like, working and creating a whole sidebist with DreamWorks. Like, this is a huge businessman that came in and helped her out. Because when Cher filed for divorce in 1974, she, because David Geffen gave her the confidence to, she cited involuntary servitude as the reason for their split. Because the divorce was so ugly that she had to do it because no one would listen to her. And she really was, she was working for nothing. She had nothing.

Yeah. Shire said, David, David's one of the smartest men I've ever known. I lived with him for two years and just on a daily basis, we had a wonderful time. I loved him. I didn't know anything. I went from one kind of take charge man to another. David helped me so much. I had no money and no way to live.

If it wasn't for David, I don't know where I would have been. I would have been in the street. And during this time, too, she's bummed. She feels like she's in the shitty holding pattern because it takes a while for her to get out from under this stuff. And so she turns to modeling as her only source of income. And she's watching everybody else sing and act and do all these things she wants to do. And she's like a fucking bird in a cage because technically she can't do any of that yet because she's still under her contractor under Sunny's thumb. For sure.

And it really is a cage. But a lot of times, like, it's a mind cage more than anything else, which is really what's so fucked up about these kind of controlling relationships where she actually held so much of the power. But you don't understand that when it's a person who's like, much older than you most of the time who's wiser in the game, they can make you feel as though they hold all the cards when really you do. Yeah, this is a quote I heard from Mitsy Shore. I always try to remember somebody retelling this quote from Mitsy Shore who found at the comedy store.

You don't need them, they need you. And every person who's like the talent who's not a manager, an agent or an executive or whatever, needs to always keep that in mind even at your lowest point career-wise. You don't need them, they need you, period. And so never, never end up under someone's thumb like this. Yes. And David Geffen comes in and they ended up meeting at the... And does he come in?

Yeah. Well, also, he's notoriously, in Hollywood, he was a homosexual. So that's when people were so actually confused because, you know, it's a different time period of how he could be in a relationship with Cher. And they had met at the opening of the Roxy, because David Geffen is one of the owners of the Roxy. And so she starts talking with them. Please look up the operator. David Geffen builds, buys, and sells the new Hollywood by Tom King. I read the share chapters about it.

And he essentially, she makes friends with him, doesn't really realize who he is. Then eventually they create more of a friendship. He lived like three houses away from where she and Sunny lived. And so she goes back to his house and she's like, how do you even afford? afford this. And as she's sitting there, according to this book, the first night they meet, as she's sitting there, Joni Mitchell comes out

from one of the bedrooms. And they end up sitting, and like they were both at the top of their game at this point in time, but in opposite fields of music. And so they just had, like, the three of them had this, like, insane, beautiful, like, revelation, conversation between the three of them, just talking about what she wanted, how she felt about herself, even just reading it, like, I'm getting tingles just thinking about it, that he brought her into this life of trying to help her learn who she is. That straight up, after the divorce went through, when she was still living with Sunny and other women, he went in and, like, I believe that he had gotten her either the house or half of the house and moved out all of

Sonny's and all of his women's things from the house. He went and went with a bunch of people because she had no money, paid for people to come in, round up everything and kick him the fuck out. And of course, that is another way of someone controlling you and doing things. But in this instance, Cher needed it. She wasn't ready to quite stand on her own, but I think that Geffen really gave her a chance to start figuring herself out. Yeah.

So funny side note, I mentioned we have talked about David Geffen before our previous episodes. I'm actually thinking of that he co-founded DreamWorks. So I've actually talked about him in the Shrek episode and the Kung Fu Panda episode. Insane. That's why. Which is so funny because it's like just couldn't be more different. The Geffen trifecta, of course. And at this point in time, too, it was when Cher really got into modeling.

She said, I did modeling because I was the only thing I could do to keep myself going. my friends were Jack Nicholson, Warren Beatty, Angelica Houston, Goldie Hawn, all these women and men who were working at their prime, and I couldn't get a job. I couldn't do anything. And this is in this in-between time period as everything is shifting over. And what ends up happening? They work together again.

What? They and Shere keep working together because she's still, but I think that this time she has more control. over the situation. And they both understand how much they need each other, sort of. I think she doesn't necessarily need him as much, but Sonny as much, but either way.

Because Sunny goes off and creates his own show and then Cher goes off and creates her own show. Yes. Before that, she decides she was to break into rock and roll under her new label. She releases the album Stars, which fails commercially and critically, though it later becomes a Cold Classic.

And honestly, I think that's because she should have made Stars four years ago when she wanted to make stars. It would have been a big hit then, but it was discos now probably all the rage at this point. in terms of the Zichai. So that was really just Sunny holding her back.

That is why I think that album probably failed. Sonny tries his hand at a solo format with the Sunny comedy review. And this was canceled after 13 weeks. Share then puts out a solo show as well, simply titled Share. It's called Share. She even talked about it. So it ended up getting, she debuted it six weeks after Sunny's show was canceled. She said, I'm scared to death.

I'm so afraid of that first walkout. Here I am alone, naked to the world. What do you think, world? Do you forgive me? But the series was produced by laughing creator George Schlattler, and he's also at Helm Judy Garland's a variety show. And strangely enough, not strangely enough, it did really well. But she didn't want, she didn't want it all on her back.

She wanted to share the spotlight, or at least as she's. Pun intended. Pun intended. Also, this is when steamy, steamy heroin addict, Greg Alman enters the picture. Yeah, baby. Don't even look again. Look up the pictures. I did not know this about this relationship.

Oh, wow. They had a look up the photo shoots of Greg Alman and Cher's relationship. It was short and fiery as fuck. They got married four days after her divorce from Sunny. She then ends up filing for divorce nine days later because, you know, I mean, he loves heroin and liquor. Just a bit. So, and she's, I guess, discovering that on the fly. Either way, they reconciled, they do reconcile from that divorce filing and then eventually get divorced for real in 1979.

Also, my favorite is that the first time they get divorced, she divorced him. And then they get married again, oh, similar to someone else. They get married again and then divorced again when he asks for divorce, which I think it's kind of, you know what, they're sharing it. Share it, there you go. Together they have a son named Elijah, by the way. And then, oddly enough, Sunny and Share reunite for the Sunny and Share show. I think they just realized they were just like, I want to be successful. This is how it can be successful. But the problem is their new ascetic is weird because now they're divorced, so it's not as cute anymore. They're getting on stage and kind of just being. a divorced couple shitting on each other and that that aesthetic is just not going to, especially for audiences back then it would maybe hold water today

but you know and then also there's just this very publicized rocky relationship with Greg Oman that is giving Cher a bad rap to the public. That is happening at the same time. Yeah so the audience turns on her. The show gets canceled in 1977. Also it was a different time period as well

so the network complained about Cher's clothing and she could have gotten away with a lot more on the original, especially because it was going so well, that they changed her image and they said, well, it wasn't appropriate for a recent divorcee to be wearing those clothes. And she said, suddenly I start coming off like Julie Andrews. And she's like, hell, Sunny didn't die. I'm not in mourning because they made her cover up her tits and wear longer skirt. That is the time you should be shown off your tits looking for your partner.

Yeah, because there's also at this time period as well when she made To the Hardway, which I enjoy the album to the Hardway. She makes it with Greg Allman. And under the name? Alman and Woman. She's not even Cher in the album. Her name is Woman. Woman.

And they toured together, but their very disparate fan bases did not mesh. The album was ripped apart. It was ignored by their fans. And she says, Deadweight starts out as dead weight and ends up just the same. I don't know why I waited to divorce him for so long again. Is that supposed to be a play on words because of almond? I think Omen and Woman is like Amin and Woman.

Yeah, it kind of rhymesish sort of. Either way. Omen, woman, woman. The release coincides with their divorce in 1979. She then has a living living. in relationship with notorious dirtbag, Gene Simmons. I really don't like that guy. I read through their relationship.

She says, Cher admitted their union between, the reunion between Gene Simmons and Cher wasn't monogamous, but she does say it was the best relationship she ever had. Oh, that's really sad. That makes me feel bad for Cher. She said that while she may have seen other men for companionship, Jean is the only one I've ever been.

crazy about. All my relationships are serious. I don't school around. And how did they break up, even though Jean Simmons said, I'm crazy about Cher, nuts about her. She was my first love. Shears an untamed soul who has never done anything bad to anybody. How did they break up? Well, at the time, Cher and Diana Ross were very good friends. And who did Gene Simmons leave her for? Diana Ross while they went shopping to get, share a Christmas present. Because Gene asked her what she wanted for Christmas. She's like, I don't know, ask Diana. Diana knows me the best.

They went out shopping and they never looked back. Oh, my God. Man, Kiss has got some great, great, great songs, but Gene Simmons is... Yeah, I ain't hating on Kiss. Strutter, Love Gun. They're all... Yeah. I danced to a kiss song at our wedding.

It's one of our wedding songs. But Gene Simmons is gross. is fuck. I hate him so much. Yeah, he's such a yuck. I can't. He's y'est. Just the way he talks to people, it makes me so annoyed. Either way, she also at this time legally changes her name from Cherylyn-Sarchizian LaPierre Bono-Alman to simply share. It's, you know, drops a few names there. Less of a mouthful. And this is when she returns to primetime TV with a special called Share. Dot, dot, dot, dot special,

which featured, yes, a 15-minute version of West Side Story in which she plays all the roles. Definitely look it up. It's definitely fantastic. You can watch it on YouTube. Again, share dot-dot-dot special. It's great.

Share's great. I love that she's just doing, I used to do a lot of shows as a kid from my family where they would be forced to watch me put on ballets and plays and stuff. This sounds like she's, just getting to do that on TV.

She's just like, look at me, I can do all the things. Yeah. And she can. So now she is a single mother with two children, and she needs to make some serious moves just for survival and also to really put herself back out on the map as like a current hot commodity. Because right now she's back into the dated zone. I couldn't imagine trying to stay relevant like this.

I can't. I see like Madonna. I mean, Madonna has has, has, nailed it at times and then embarrassed herself at times trying to do it. Like I couldn't fathom constantly be trying to be like the face of what is hip and new and modern. No, because even, that's why I appreciate that Cher hates the phrase comeback. This quote, I've been the same person since I was six years old, so I don't get the whole

reinvention thing. I mean, you do something that's not successful and you're bored and you do something that's successful and you're reinventing yourself. I do stuff with hair and costumes and things. like that because what am I going to do come in a pair of overalls and a white t-shirt? I mean, that would be boring. So the next episode, we're going to cover another comeback musically, another fall musically, then another comeback, but as a giant hit actress all through the 80s, a redefinement of her entire career. It is absolutely astounding. I love this story. She is a phenomenal,

phenomenal artist and it is I'm so glad we're doing this y'all because I didn't know any of this. I can't wait to have an excuse to watch a bunch of 80 share movies. Yeah, mask. I'm so into it. Actually, what you were saying about the documentary nat makes so much sense and I'd like to go back and watch

it because it makes sense of how she portrayed and we will talk about it next time Mermaids. It explains how she gets into that mindset because also not only of her mother but also herself. that, you know, as she's reinventing herself, as she's doing all these things,

she's got two little kids. Yeah. And her character, she based the style on a lot from directly her mother's outfits. Yeah. It makes so much sense. I love it. I'm going to watch that too.

Hopefully I'll give me a little more insight even as we continue in our next episodes. That sounds like a really interesting documentary. And yes, we have so many fun fucking 80s movies. Honestly, it's great timing because it wasn't too long ago that I was like, I've never seen Moonstruck. It was literally like a month or so ago. And I was going through this, like, 80s movie.

phase in quarantine. I was like, I just want to watch 80s movies that aren't stressful. And, yeah, Moonstruck right on the money, man. Just phenomenal film and absolutely deserving of all of its praise. Oh, and at some point we're going to get into Shares' Twitter, which, oh, saying it like it is. And believe it in life after love and all that good stuff. I mean, all of her activism, we haven't talked about any of her efforts. Oh, my God, so much activism.

It's great. I love it. I'm so glad we're doing this. I think we're probably going to get three out of this. So stay tuned. We hope you enjoyed part one. Thank you for joining us. If you'd like to check us out further, check us out on Patreon.com forward slash page seven podcast. Everything on there. It's so good. There's there's goofamups. There's twilight. There's weekly talking TV episodes where we talk about TV. Check me out on Twitch.com.com.com.com.com. out we party, we get drunk. Oh my god, it's so much fun. Twitch.tv.4 slash Holdenators ho, ho. Only one ho. You follow me at the Natty Jean and follow us at page 7LP. And my name is Jackie Scherbrowski. That's not true. It's Zabowski.

You can follow me on Instagram at Jack That Worm. I love Cher. Bye. Take you up for the handyman. Mounties me I'm terrible All right, we'll go This show is made possible

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