Page 7 - Pop History: Euphoria

Episode Date: November 19, 2019

Jackie and Holden explore the making of (and the makeup in) "Euphoria".    LA, Chicago, Pontiac & Milwaukee, we want to laugh with you and see your finest Euphoria inspired eyeshadow looks. Come see Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser LIVE!    Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

My body is a cake. I love the goddamn song. The body is a... Euphoria. My body is a euphoria. And I... My body is never a euphoria. I don't know if I'd ever describe my body as a euphoria.

Welcome. Welcome to this week's episode on euphoria. Wow. Because the thing is if Holden and I are obsessed with the television, this is the best part. Is it now when we get obsessed with something, it's technically. we are making it into our job to research euphoria for three days straight. I actively wanted to learn as much as I could about this television show, and I was absolutely able to do that over the last few days.

I was just wondering if I could get just a quick how right I was about you watching this show. You know what? Yeah. You could just let me know how right. You were incredibly right. Let me just, all right. Let's say it right now, okay? I keep pitching euphoria to people as you don't think it's for you.

it's for you. Watch euphoria. It's like totally that show that you think is just totally for a different audience and it's so not. It is just like, I mean, you know... I do understand that it is way too triggering for a lot of people.

And I do get that. There were times that I had to stop many episodes and then I was like, I just need a minute. I need a minute. I'm going to go take a step outside. I'm going to go think about my life and my choices. Right.

And then I would go back in and continue. Was it especially the mental health stuff or was it more the sexual promiscuity or was it the heavy drinking and drug use? Which of those do you think was the most haunting for your soul? I would say I think that what was the most haunting for my soul was of course identifying with cat as a bigger girl and trying to like and really utilizing my self-hatred and how I felt about myself through abusing myself with promiscuous. sex, but it also was the, that was the, it was the group that I used to roll with when I was a lot younger and a lot of the different characters, different facets of them reminded me very much of people that I knew. And that is something that like, especially when it came to the drug use. And of course it's a very, it's a lot prettier of a picture than what it really is. And I think

that that was part of why I loved the show so much is that it is, in the, the title you is so perfect because when you're in it, it's spectacular. Yeah. And you don't realize how dank and difficult and just gritty your life is until you're on the other side of it and you're like, oh, why did I see it as so beautiful? Why did I see it as something that was so magical? And there are times in my life that I still kind of miss how self-destructive I used to be.

Right. Because when you're in it, it's everything. Right. Well, I mean, I will say that it has been those moments of dark, deep tragedy, at least in my head and in my soul, personal, you know, going through heartbreak or dealing with that adversity. Those are the times you feel the most alive, I think. And there's a certain, I mean, I would not want to be in that state at all times. But there is something to say about, and of course, on my head, I'm thinking about our super sad. summer where we would go on these like crazy day excursions all over new york because everybody

was sort of fucked up and broken and but but like and we would drink all day and we would just like do anything any kind of pill we could grab it's like we were just going but also having amazing experiences and then blinking and being like where the fuck are we right and then you laugh and you laugh and you and then you just have all these amazing times but it's not it's scary in in reality it's very scary and I know that there's a lot of people that I've actually talked to about euphoria that's like that's not real life that doesn't happen teens aren't going through that you're right not every teen goes through that and not every person has that but it is a part of life yeah that does exist i appreciate the uh the exaggeration of it all the distortion of it all the magical realism of it

It makes it somehow more palatable and also more, more, it gets across its messages better, I feel like. Yeah. It hits home harder. Also though, it's like more okay to deal with because you're like, yeah, this is not real. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah. It's the room spinning. That wouldn't actually happen.

No, she's walking on the walls. What? It's crazy. But it's someone that has. been, especially I've been dealing with my mental illness for my entire life. And there are times when you do, that's like that episode, when Rue is, like, most of it is like a monologue and she feels like everything is a, that she's solving a crime. I love that episode. I was about to bring that one up because, like, that was. Depressive. And I get it. I know that she is OCD. I believe that she's bipolar,

right. They're very different, and I understand that, but there have been times when I'm just like, I don't even know. I could have been walking on the walls. When you're in that state of just like, of mania, you don't know what's up and what's down sometimes. You just keep going and you're excited and you're into it. I was checking in with Lexi because she has people in her life that are, suffer from manic depression. And she always like, is this what it is? And she's like, yeah, pretty much the manic side is more angry in my experience but other than that it's like pretty spot the fuck on about especially being like i know what the real deal is and i'm going to get to the bottom of this and that sort of manic weird energy yeah i think that they hit it i think and

they hit it spot on and i think it's an important conversation that we need to be having yeah because it is we do know now that the the youth of generation what is it generation z right Is that what they're calling it? That they are smoking less. They're having less sex. They're staying in school. It really is overall. The women are men.

The men are women. But it is. It's like the most accepting generation. But it's not without its faults because all of these acceptances and everything that we're going through opens up the door for 20 other things. And I think that people aren't focused on that because they're like, but the numbers, the numbers. You're right. The numbers are great. And it is good.

And I get so excited to talk to the youths about the differences of how we were raised and how they're being raised now. Yeah. One of my favorite things to see is the implication or not implication is the insertion of all of these modern day technology things that I didn't experience in high school that gives me that perspective. You know, the dick picks and the video stuff and, you know, just. all that, like all the social media shit and how that can be used for and against people in the high school world. And it's absolutely mortifying. I always say I'm so thankful that YouTube didn't exist and Facebook didn't exist when I was in middle school.

It was hard enough that I had the public online journals. Like even that was a little much. Do you have access to those? Oh, yeah. Have you ever read those? Yes. Oh, that's why I did that show. I did a show in L.A.

A couple months ago. I meant for page seven listeners. Oh, no. No, no, no, no. Not going to happen. Very upsetting. Very upsetting. I was, there was a much angrier, a much sadder time, and they're not funny. And I've seen you angry, and I've seen you sad.

So for you to say it's much more angry and sad. That's. Well, yeah, me times 20 because it's my teen hormones. Are you kidding me? So let's get into it. I have so many questions. I want to talk later about what character do you think you're most like? Favorite moments in the show, stuff like that.

But I want to let, we did all this, we did all this legwork. Let's get into the background of the show. I'm sorry, I'm just gushing over here. Jake and I called the gush on Wizard and the Bruiser, actually. And we usually open our shows with the gush, which I think is the best. Just talking about your personal experience with the thing, which for me was literally, oh, by the way, I guess I'll just say to what I tell other people to is like, it started off like a show that resembled like kids and train spotting, all those movies and shows that, like, rules of attraction,

all those, like, bad kid movies from, like, the late 90s, early 2000s. It reminded me of that, and then slowly the show over a few episodes turns into this, like, masterpiece is how I felt about it, right? It's starting especially with the carnival scene, which we'll talk about. Well, and that's really what it is. I know a lot of people that watch the first episode was like, just keep going. Keep going. Just keep going.

And if it's not for you, it's not for you. Yeah. But just keep going. Yeah. At least get to the carnival scene. And if you're not into it after the carnival, not seen episode, rather, it's an entire episode. If you're not into it after that, then you are released. Which apparently that episode itself took about a week to shoot because it was a nightmare.

Yeah, we'll get into it. All right, so let's first talk about what this show is based off of, which is another show called Euphoria. It was written by a Ron Leshman. He is an award-winning novelist for Beaufort, which is about an Israel Defense Forces unit stationed at Beaufort Castle in South Lebanon. not during the South Lab. This sounds like it has nothing to do with what Euphoria is. So I'm like really blown away at this writer's range. Yes.

He ends up co-writing, co-directing, an adaptation of it. It gets nominated for Best Foreign Film at the Academy Award. So he's already kicking it off really well. Oh, yeah. And then he does this Euphoria series directed by Daphna Levin and aired in late 2012. And this is actually, weirdly enough, set in the 90s. centered around Gen X teens, like us kind of, well, I guess we're technically, I'm technically a millennial, I believe. But it's like, I associate with the Gen Xers because I had an older brother

that was like. And that's the same with me as well that I was the youngest of two. Well, I guess my sister's even, she's not Gen X. What's the one before? Your sister's Gen X. Your sister's, I think she's definitely, I'm pretty, almost certain she's Gen X. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that, I think that kind of, that brings you into that because it, Of course, I feel like your upbringing is based more on your older siblings as well. Jeremy spoken. Like that's on the stereo. We are like, you know what I mean?

We're jamming, bra. Now, you bring up the fact that Ron Lesham was doing something very different from what this euphoria is, but actually the original show was very different from the American show. in a lot of interesting ways like what you said it was based in the 90s so it was about a generation that isn't ours or I guess it is ours

it's barely not ours but we're so close to it that we we are this weird in between group of people where I feel like we don't we're I think we in this specific like from 1982 to like

1985 maybe is like a group that it just does not it has a total identity crisis. We are not, we're kind of Gen X, we're kind of millennials. Well, and also everything changed as we were growing up, where we grew, like, I remember still, like, we still had the, like, going to the library and going through, what was the system, the decimal system, and microvision, things like that. So we had that, but then we also got cell phones. We also had the

internet. So we were the bridge in between two very different times. Yes. And, And that is what is shown in the original euphoria. Yes. And you, all right, so you sent me the trailer, which you dug up somewhere. That's amazing. And people should check that out if they're curious. Because actually, the original was based on a real life murder. So it had a good amount of the characters in the original version of it.

The character of Rue is based on Ronan Levy, who was a teen that was murdered in 2006. Well, interesting you would say all of that, Jackie, because in Euphoria on HBO, there is no murder? But this is so the whole thing is that, so it's two members of one of Israel's crime families, both were 22, were arrested for killing the Rue character of the original. So because the Roo character was talking to a girl outside of a club and her boyfriend thought that they were flirting. So he chased down the Roo character in a Jeep and one of the people in the Jeep stabbed her. in the heart. So the entire original series of euphoria, Rue

is dead and is talking about everything that happened up until her death. They better not kill fucking Rue, dude. This is what I'm so scared of. I'm so scared. There was actually a lot more murder in the original because also

in the original Rue kills the Nate character as well. Gotcha. So it's all of these, but Rue is dead. whole time. And that scares me, Holden. That is scary. Sam Levinson, who is the creator, promises that she's not dead in the first season. In the first season. I want to go back and watch it and be like, could you take her out of the scene and it would be the same, you know what I mean? Right. I don't think of that's the case. Do you have anything else on the original euphoria before

we talk about Sam Levinson. I feel like you did some, you got, you got the, the nuggets that I couldn't find. I got it in nuggets. I went a little, give us, go nuggets. I got,

because I was so interested in what the differences were. So also they were talking about, so, like the Rue character's drug addiction. So what I love is getting into the fact that it makes sense. So both of the characters,

their drug dependency, starts in response because of grief as well as guilt. So with Rue, she started her drug dependency because of her father's terminal illness because her deep grief was mixed with a cacophony of mental health issues. But on Israel's euphoria, Rue had been using drugs for less than a year and her addiction was fueled by feelings of guilt after her boyfriend killed some random guy just for talking to. Wow. So this is just way on another. It's way different. It's way. And I want to see. If anyone that's listening this can find the original that has English subtitles, please let me know because I'm not an aficionado.

I don't know how to find it because apparently you can find it, but not with English subtitles. Really? That's shocking to me because of the success of the HBO show. Also, it's shocking to me like how much good shit is out there that we just don't even have translations of that you just don't even think about, like, that there's a show. It's Israeli, right? that there's just some Israeli show out there that you would totally binge to pieces but it's just like locked off in this way

so I hope the popularity of the HBO show allows us to at least get to enjoy this because this sounds fucking nuts I want to see it especially once we get into the casting things because also the characters are very different but another thing that both of the series deal with in very different ways is 9-11

so as we all know in the in the US version of it It starts with mentioning the tragedy because Rue explained that she was born three days after 9-11 and her parents spent most of their time in the hospital grieving. So Generation Z is the first generation to grow up without any knowledge of the world before 9-11 and is less experienced adolescents in a fundamentally different way than anyone who came before them. I loved that touch. That had me locked in immediately. Immediately.

Like I say like, oh, get to the carnival episode. like I was fucking in, to be honest with you from the very beginning, but like it just got better for me as I went. But what a great touch. And I didn't even think of it of it that way. And it's, and it's, and that's why I blew my mind.

I was like, you're right. That's crazy that it is a whole, it's a whole, that they didn't know what life was like before then. They didn't, even though it was like, things were, even though things were worse than,

things were more trustworthy. It's like we almost should have like stopped the years, uh, started the years, over again. Like it's like BC AD shit. You know what I mean? Like we should have just start all right, it's year one now because ground zero. You know what I mean? Like it's it's such a crazy thing to think about. And I, um, it's so sad to me the idea that people don't understand that there are so many people out there that are alive that don't know what this world was like

in America especially before that horrible tragedy. But anyways, I digress. Which is also, why the series creator, the original series creator, Ron Lesham, said that he wanted the series to be based in the 90s because he wanted to explore the differences between the generations of the kids that had never, that these are all of the, he wanted to deal with kids that at age like eight, seven or eight had to deal with watching people jump out of the Twin Towers. And what was it like before them? Right, right. So that people could have a a direct comparison that even though it was in Israel, of course, that was still greatly affected by 9-11 and just trying to show the differences of life before it and after it.

And then Levinson, you know, not to jump too far ahead, but he does the opposite. He's a guy writing about his life growing up in the 90s dealing with drug abuse and he's writing it though set in modern day. That's so fascinating. and what you get out of that, uh, interesting perspective. That's so interesting.

Well, yeah, let's talk about Sam Levinson. Sure. Created the American version. Sam Levinson, he made his film debut as an actor in the 1992 film Toys. Which the second I saw that he was in Toys, I got to watch Toys again.

Oh my God. Toys gives me the weirdest feeling. It makes me feel so weird. I was, as a kid, I was terrified of toys. It is very upset. It's like the weirdest. It's supposed to be. Willy Wonka and it's just like all the dark unsettling parts of Willy Wonka with like none of the levity.

Like you know what I mean? So toys with Jack Nicholson. I'm not Jack Nicholson, Robin Williams. Rob Williams. And I had to look up his credit just now. And he was one of the kids playing the video games in the war room. So if you haven't seen that movie before, they set up these war video games, but they're controlling actual tanks and stuff like in a real war. They just don't realize it.

because they're the best at these war games. Have you watched that again? Should I rewatch that movie? I don't think so. It's so upsetting. June Cusack's like amazing in it. Robin Williams is great too, but it's just so like,

it just makes you feel, when they keep like taking parts of the warehouse away from them and like the walls are like shrinking in on them because they are expanding for more space for their war. I don't know. I just remember one of the scenes where it's like the scary like tinker toys there's like, ding, ding, ding, like coming down the hallway. I'm like, I don't know if this is supposed to be scary.

It's so. But I'm terrified. It's like just the boat ride in Willy Wonka. Nothing else. Oh, nothing else. So, Sam Levinson, after toys, he decides to get into writing and directing. Probably wasn't working out too well for him on the acting front. He writes and directs a film called Another Happy Day about a woman played by Ellen Barkin,

who goes to her brother's wedding and gets wrapped up an awful family drum. It kind of sounds a little like, you know, like Margo at the wedding, stuff like that. It didn't get the best reviews. It did win an award at Sundance. I have not seen it. Really cool. It's like a pretty solid ensemble cast. It looks like pretty interesting.

And those are my kind of movie. Like I like that kind of movie. So I might have to check it out at some point. He then co-wrote the Wizard of Lies. The Wizard. Did you watch this? I want to watch this. No, because the phrase the Wizard of Lies makes me sound like it's something I'm going to be really interested in.

But I will say, I don't give a fuck about Bernie. Made up. Really? I think I like scam artists and scandals. I'm always fascinated by like people who lie every second of their day. I'd rather it be about a lying wizard and then I'm in. I'm the wizard of lies. Yes, that's the event. Then I want to see it. You're not a human. You're a dog. You're a liar. Yeah, it's, so yes, it's about Bernie Madoff, Madoff, and the whole scandal with him, played by Robert De Niro. I want to check it out, but I didn't hear like a ton. Also, what is it? Helen Mirren, is it? Yeah, I think so. I mean, fucking A, that's a great cast, fascinating story.

I would actually love to check that out at some point. Then, but that also establishes a relationship with HBO, right? So that's how we get him to HBO. and then in 2018, this is something I definitely want to check out. He wrote and directed a black comedy thriller called Assassination Nation. It's referred to as a teen exploitation film. And it's about essentially, all right, so a hacker leaks a bunch of personal secrets about all these people in this one town. And they just, it turns into absolute chaos, which sounds, yeah, and totally in.

And I love the posters. Just a bunch of rad looking ladies with fucking like machine guns and shit. So yeah, I'm definitely into that. And that's pretty much what brings them up to euphoria. So not a huge repertoire we're talking about here. Yeah. This is not. And also the other other thing you need to know about Sam Levinson was before all of this career stuff, he battled horribly with drugs.

Drug addiction. And very, very intensely. And he, he, all of that stuff that he wrote was pushed into. to the show. And yeah, it's all deeply personal. You know, he talks about being in rehab and and being at the point where he was literally just like, like, is this going to be my legacy?

Is this really what I'm going to, what mark I'm going to leave on the world? And that was that that kind of snapped him out of it and got him finally out of his addiction. And he's been clean and sober. I think it was just like the characters in the show. pretty much just like high school drug addiction. Maybe a little bit after that, but I, yeah, I think he was just, he was just like one of those young, just immediately fucking taken over by drug addiction people. And he said about, so he gets a meeting with HBO's head of drama and they sit down. He said, I had gone in to sit down with Francesca Orsi, the head of drama.

And I asked her what she liked about the Israeli series, talking about the U.S. for you there. And she said, just sort of what a raw and honest portrait it is of drugs and being young and everything. So I started talking about my own personal history with drugs. I was a drug addict for many years and I've been clean for many years now, but we just kind of talked about life for two hours, which that's, you know, it's a good meeting. That's exactly what you want to do with those meetings. And then she just said, okay, go write that. I was like, uh, all right. And I went back and sat down and I wrote kind of a 25 page outline that consisted of mainly dialogue because I'm not organized enough to actually write outlines

and sent it over. And she said, you know, said, this is great, write the first script and we kind of went from there. I love that. I love it. I also love that I get so bogged down when I'm pitching. So one of the things I love about this and what I do on which is the brusers, I get to learn about what makes creative people successful.

And I think a lot of times when we do story pitches and stuff like that, You put so much into the organization of like, I have to have this. I have to have this. If you have a great idea, just do it. Show it the way you want to show it too, right? And for him, he was like, I can't do an outline. It's going to be, I can't do like a structured thing like that. So I'm just going to write dialogue.

Get your idea across any way you can. That was my takeaway. So he said, Levinson said, I was just trying to capture that kind of heightened sense of emotion when you're young and how relationships feel. Relationships have such a pool and people have such a pool and the world feels like it's just constantly sort of bearing down on you and that anxiety and those sort of mood swings that I think are inherent to being young in general then but are even more so when you struggle with anxiety and depression and addiction. It's true. So just trying to create this character that just is constantly trying to navigate this world of just heightened emotion and trying to either enhance the joy or kind of dampen the sadness or the darkness in it, which I think it's a great description of the show. show and what he captured in the show.

And that's why it always drives me crazy when people are like, when they're like, oh, teen love and whatever, they're going to, they don't even know yet. They don't, the reason why adolescence is so difficult is because you are having all of these hormones and all these feelings for the first time. And you're going through all of these things. So of course it's heightened. Of course you think that if that, if that person doesn't go on a date with you, you're going to die.

Yes. want your world to end. It's because you'd never felt those emotions before. So isn't it really that, like, you think of, like, young love and young trauma and things like that, doesn't it make even, isn't it even more than we feel as an adult? We're dulled down at this point. That, of course, it still hurts and of course things are still horrible. But you felt them before.

You know that feeling. I fucking, I fucking had an emotional breakdown because my buddy canceled on plans to go to the movies. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I broke down crying and even know why. You know what I just was so lonely and bored, I guess. So it drives me crazy when people are like, they're young, they don't know. It's like, you're right.

They don't know. So they have all the feelings. They have extra of the feelings. But God, it's so exciting. You know what I mean? Like falling in love for the first time or like what you think is love? It's exciting. You don't know.

Oh, my God. It's amazing and horrifying. And, you know, he just tapped into that from his own life. So everyone's talking like, how did he write so well for millennials? He didn't. He wrote himself as a teenager, what he felt with those addictions, with all that stuff. Even that kitchen knife scene at the party was based on his own experience. That he really happened to him, yeah.

And he was the one that pulled the knife. I mean, he's just been through so much shit. And that's Jules in the show, and we will talk about Jules. So he gets a pilot order in 2018 with A-24 television. You'd probably seen that logo before, before a lot of really cool shit. They make all of the good things. They make all the cool shit. 824 made it.

They also produced the Carmichael show. Shout us to Kevin. They did two dope queens. Pod Save America. So, of course, they're doing stuff for HBO. And at home with Amy Sedaris, just to name a few of the projects they are currently or were working on in the past. So great production company, definitely for this kind of thing, this sort of like indie feeling thing that's like still like, but it got a lot of like force behind it and money behind it. So let's get into this fucking amazing cast.

And I was shocked to know about. Zendaya, like I didn't realize how much of a risk Zendaya was taking, because I don't know anything about these. Zendaya, I hate to be that. Oh, sorry, Zendaya, Zendaya. That makes more sense, actually. I mispronounce everything, dear listeners, and I'm so sorry for that. The only reason why I know that it's Zendaya is because there's a song and that it's about her being in that like abominable snowman movie and it's this dumb fun, dumb song, I always sex a man and it goes, Zendaya is Beachy. And she had spoken out about it.

It was like, you know what? Thanks for saying my name right. So it's the only way I know that's how you say it. That's hilarious. I had, I don't know about any of these like Disney people. That was just never some I caught. She's amazing.

As a kid, did you like watch anything like? I watched all of it. Okay. So all this. So you saw her on TV? Oh no. I was too old.

Right? You were too old for this one. But before that you saw like, um. It's like I was watching. It was like that's like that's like that's like, Stan Hillary Duff and things like that. You know,

it's like I had the right before then. I think, you know, I will always love Shia LeBuff because of Even Stevens. That's so weird. Like, I don't even know what Even Steven is. Love Even Stevens. So Zendaya is, she plays the 17-year-old recovering drug addict, Rue Bennett, the main character of the show, who just does a phenomenal job. She was born in Oakland, California, had an African-American father and a mother with German and Scottish ancestry. And she cut her teeth acting at the California Shakespeare Theater, where her mother was a house manager, which is so.

cute she went to oakland school the arts and performed in several stage productions she became a member of a group called future shock oakland future shock oakland dance company they did hip hop and hula mostly awesome i want to be a part of that so she's learning that triple threat shit right she's learned out of dance she's learning how to sing she's learning how to act in the and you know on a traditional theater background which is always the best way to go at first uh i think um And then she also is learning how to model modeling for places like Macy's and Old Navy. And she appeared actually as a backup dancer in a Sears commercial featuring Selena Gomez. I love her.

And I guess maybe that's, I don't know if that's how she got connected to the Disney Channel shit. But either way, her first big role is on Disney Channel. Shake it up alongside Bella Thorne. You know? Known crazy person, Bella Thorne. About two. It's about two back. But also shout out to Bella Thorne.

Go watch the. a babysitter, she's great in it. Oh, I need to see that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great. I need to see that. So, she's with Bella Thorne. There are two backup dancers at a show in Chicago. This is such a Disney Channel idea. And it led to some minor hit singles. So that's another weird thing. There are just these like weird kit, like fortween hit singles done by Bella Thorne and Zendaya on the same track, which is amazing because they're on very different tracks, I would say, at this point, you know, career-wise. And so she was on, from there, she was also on season 16 of Dancing with the Stars, and she ended up finishing in second place, unbelievable.

And she's released, and then she's releasing albums. She released a book between you, the letter you, and me, how to rock your tween years with style and confidence. I know, I would listen to her. Tell me how to do it. And then she makes her feature debut, as most of us probably, know in 2017 Spider-Man Homecoming, which was great. Did you watch Spider-Man Homecoming? I did.

Yeah, it's great in both of them. I saw the new one, too. She killed it on it. And she put out a clothing line. This is, woman is ridiculous. Like, and this is all how old is she at this point? At 2017, it just makes me upset about myself.

It's insane. You know what I mean? Perfect. I love her. So Dea Bison Dea was put out as her clothing line. She ends up co-starring in the Greatest Showman with Hugh Jackman as a trapeze artist. I love her. It was so funny with The Greatest Showman. Lexi was like, my sister recommend that I watch this.

And I was like, all right, cool, we'll watch it. We put it on. It was like late one night, and she didn't realize it was like a Boslerman musical until it started. And she was like, oh, I can't handle this right now. So we haven't got back to it. I haven't watched it. I haven't watched it. I haven't watched it.

I haven't watched it. And so Levinson, by the way, Levinson had her. her in mind really early on. He said, I had had this mood board that I brought into HBO and I had her face on it. There's just something that I couldn't get over. She had this real vulnerability to her at times and then a real toughness to her. I think that the toughest part of writing a character and sort of portraying a character that's dealing with addiction is understanding the root causes of it and the sensitivity behind it. I had a meeting with her and we were just talking about life and various things. In that moment, I thought, oh, this is someone who has no ceiling.

She, as an artist, she can do anything. She can go anywhere, and she has a curiosity and a real drive to explore every aspect of it. She's willing to be pushed in that way. I think what she does throughout the course of this series is astonishing. She's just a spectacular talent and a joy to work with. And I also, and I Holden will say,

what a fucking risk, you know? What a cool risk to take. I mean, and maybe it's not that crazy of a risk when you think about it, because I mean, it's like she's already on top of her game, like whatever, it's not necessarily going to ruin her career. But if she was unbelievable, I would not have kept watching the show. No, not at all.

I mean, that was completely about, I will say that if she was not good in the show, I think that the show would have at least fallen flat. And I think there's something about looking, and I imagine in working as an ensemble, that everyone's like, she is the leader of this. and they had to rise to the occasion. All of these young actors and actresses had to rise to the occasion. Yes.

And that's awesome. And they all did it. And who rose to the occasion better than Hunter Schaefer as Jules. I love Jules. I think I most wanted to do this episode to learn more about this person, especially after you talk to me about her story

and a brief glimpse. And then I was like, oh, I want to know everything now. So she, Hunter Schaefer, Jules Vaughn, is the new girl arriving to town. She's transgender and makes fast friends with Jules. She's born in Raleigh, North Carolina to a pastor father at Hudson Memorial Presbyterian Church and has three younger siblings, two sisters and a brother. And you were the one that told me, so immediately, all right, you think, transgender, North Carolina, the epicenter of issues with all of that. Father is a pastor. Father is a pastor. I mean, and that's what you told me, and I was like, whoa.

Oh, that's fucking amazing. But that he had her back, right? He had her back, right? Yeah, it seems like it. I mean, she was definitely a part of the bathroom bill in North Carolina. She was named a plaintiff in the ACLU's lawsuit over North Carolina's bathroom bill. And if you don't know about that, Jackie, can you explain it? I don't want to get it wrong.

We're not lawyers, okay? Yes, I don't know exactly. I mean, I don't know exactly about it, but I do know that it's about accepting that or changing the bathrooms into gender neutral as opposed to being either just male or female. And it got really gross. I remember, you know, I talked to my parents about it because, of course, I'm in New York most of the time, but I would come home, especially during this time. And they were just so disappointed in everything that was going on with this, because people were just making really gross statements about LGBTQ people associating them with, like, child molesters

and all this weirdness and all this just weird paranoia that comes from bigotry. And it was, It's just a very disgust. It still is. It still is a pretty gross time politically in North Carolina, which is where I'm from, by the way. That's why I said my parents. I'm from Charlotte, North Carolina. And so Schaefer said, I was in a place of privilege in my transition and felt like I could handle making myself visible in order to help my state understand why what they were doing, rather, was detrimental to my community. And that is incredible. That is at just 20 years old. I couldn't fathom going into a courtroom and protecting. my identity and my community's identity in such a public way, even just as a fucking lame, straight white guy. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, I couldn't fathom that stress.

It was really important that she did that, especially at the time, that was during the time that she was a model. And because also, before all this, she'd never acted before. Yes. Isn't that nuts? That's insane. Because I think she gives one of the best performances in the entire thing. She is just totally, the chemistry between her and Rue is so on point and she's acting across from someone with how many years, how many hours of experience acting professionally in all these different facets.

Yeah, she was a model. She modeled for houses like Dior, Rick Owens, Tommy Hill, figure coach, Mark Jacobs. There were a lot more on that list that I left out. But just to give you an idea, she was not just modeling, like a career model. Yes. And it was actually big shoutouts, by the way. I'm glad we get to say her name. Casting director, Mary Venditti.

You deserve all the awards. You killed it with the casting on this show. I don't think there's a single part that I dislike casting-wise in terms of this show. So she said for the part of Jules, she hit the fucking streets, man. Search the LGBTQ centers. She talked to folks in the trans community, and she actually discovered, which is another thing you told me that made me want to learn about, this person. She discovered Hunter through Instagram. Yeah,

man. Isn't that? It's insane. It's insane. Fucking social media, dude. You have, it's like, it is a part of all of it. Vinditti said, casting that one was extra scary because these were not people trained at all as actors. Hunter came in and won it

in the room in a beautiful way. It was important that the character be very natural. Hunter had the experience. A lot of these kids are transitioning and going through this. She had never acted before. She could into it, what to do, her performance is seamless. And I really loved how, and I

don't know if I pulled a quote for this or not, but I definitely read about this. I loved how it wasn't about her transitioning, like so many other stories about trans people that are in film or TV right now. It's all about them struggling.

It's about there's a person. Yeah, it's about them struggling in their transition. And this is a person who has transitioned, who is confident, who is, you know, still a human being and flawed and going through difficult issues, but it didn't feel so much like, you know, every, because I get a little eye-roly when a situation like this can be handled, like every two seconds you're getting reminded that she's a trans person.

Well, and also, we're finally just getting to the point that as a fat woman, that it's not just like, do you see, we got a fat person on the show. Do you see? Oh, I bet they're thinking about their weight. And then now we've just come into that about, wait. So the fact that it was like, we could just get to that with every part of every community. Right. Wouldn't that be awesome? And it's still like an element. It's there. But it's just not like, yeah, it's not like, look what we did. Aren't we so brave? Right. No. She's a person. I didn't even know she was trans until like, I think it was talked about like a couple of episodes. It's not it's not really even about that. It's about her struggle as a human being.

As a fucking high school girl just fucking living that shit. So, Mod Apatow is Ruse childhood friend Lexi. She was actually in Assassination Nation, and Levinson wrote the character specifically for her. Can we talk about Angus Cloud as drug dealer Fesco? Maybe, besides Jules, maybe my favorite character in the entire thing. And his character, which is what I was referring to earlier, so I know they were talking about the casting,

because they actually found him on the street. It was another one in the same kind of way of casting Jules as well. He was just walking down the street and Vendiddy saw him and asked the kind of things that he did because he was exactly the look that she was looking for and he actually worked in production

but on the side of building sets. Wow, yeah, yeah. Never thought, never even wanted to act. And also the character of Fezco. Is very different in the Israeli version is actually a lot bigger

of a part of it because he the relationship between he and the Rue character is very troubled and I think that that was really hinted at and that was something that I actually also really enjoyed about

the American version of euphoria is the idea of I knew those people where your drug dealers are And a lot of times, especially when it comes to, like, where I was in a small town, it's people that care about you. Yeah. But also you can say, how do they care about you if they keep giving you drugs and they keep selling this to you? So in the Israeli version, Fez actually rapes Rue after realizing that she doesn't care about him the way he cares about her.

And that's a huge part of the show because he was giving her drugs to have sex with her. It's like the opposite in this situation. It's the opposite of it in this. And I actually like the fact that in the American version, it's exploring that other side of things where you can love and care about someone and also hurt them. And when he finally stops in that scene, when she's outside the door trying to get drugs from him and he's just sitting there listening to her scream at him. That was such a, like that was one of the scenes that I had to stop and walk. outside. I was just, I was like, that's, I've seen this. I've done

this. And, um, but but the fact that he just had no, he never wanted to, he didn't even know he wanted to act. He worked at, apparently he said he worked at a chicken and waffle joint in Bushwick. That's amazing, dude. Yeah, Vindetti said about Angus Cloud, he did not have to come in. We saw the search tape, no

question. He was the character, 100%. And even though he's a drug dealer, he has so much heart, you can see who he is. He's a natural. These kids, they're young. They don't have to be doing anything. They're trying to figure it out what they're doing. And that's the key word, heart. He has this totally, like, dead face, like, low-key, chill-ass drug dealer exterior,

and yet the heart oozes out of him in every pore, and it's just this, it's like a magic trick. It's amazing to watch. Also, Barbie Ferreira. Yes. Ferriera. I didn't realize she's got a crazy story, too. She was. Oh, my God.

And she's, have you followed her Instagram? Yes. I did follow her ex-em. She is... Oh, my gosh, she's so hot. And she... This character has such a strong arc in the show. She plays off this...

She plays Cat Hernandez. She starts off this very shy, virgin woman, and you just watch her lose that fucking shit like a bad habit and end up really exploring who she is as a woman, gain all this confidence, like become a dom, essentially. Yes, a cam girl. The real woman grew up in NYC in Jersey. She began in her... career as a model in her teens by sending photos to American Apparel and an open casting call

and has gone on to model for Adidas Forever 21, H&M, among many others. A video of hers went viral from her Airy campaign. Airy is that, what's Airy? American Eagle. Oh, okay, gotcha. Along with unretouched photos. And Time named her one of its 30 most influential teens in 2016. So she was already crush in the game.

Oh, yeah. And yeah, she has this super popular Instagram. Jackie, you want to describe her Instagram? It has over one million followers. She's very, very attractive. Her style is amazing. She's fiercely confident. That's what her social media portrays.

And she's everything I ever wanted to be. But you kind of are. I wish. Are you kidding me? My God, I wish. She just kills it in the show, and it's so cool to see that she has this, like, insane. It's this other, all these people. have such diverse and is that a millennial thing I think maybe like that everyone is such diverse careers

like no but I feel like our generation all the generation before it's like you focus on one thing and that's the thing you do but now it's like no if you want to be an influencer you're a model you're an actor you're a you know you're a ambassador for brands which I think it's good it should be like you know everything should be you should be the master of many different hats yes wearing far too many hats trying to keep them on your head. Master of the hats. Keeper of the keys. Then you also have Sidney

who plays Cassie Howard, a girl who knows how to use sex to get what she wants, but is also haunted by a past of gross guys sex and videos. She has starred in Handmaid's Tale, which I had to be reminded by Lexi because I didn't even remember her in that. Oh, yeah. She was also in sharp objects and is a trained MMA fighter? Isn't that nuts?

Also, another part of the casting I wanted to bring up was the casting of McKay, who plays her boyfriend in it. It was originally cast by, who played the character was Brian Astro Bradley, but he left after the pilot. He was a former contestant on the X Factor, but he's also a rapper. And after he did the pilot, he found out what was going to happen in the rest of the show, and he dropped out. And he just essentially was like, it was too much, he was too uncomfortable. And so then they had to go back through and reshoot all of the scenes with McKay in the first season. Really? Yes, because he had dropped out because he couldn't handle it.

That must have been awful for her. Yes, isn't that? And can you imagine her having to do those scenes twice? Oh, that is so brutal. Yeah. You also have Jacob Elordy. I didn't realize he was all straight. Australian.

And again, it kind of like Zendaya, this like teen heartthrob dude that just takes a sharp right turn with the work he does before you. I don't even see him as an attractive dude because of his character in the show. And I saw him on something else, like some sort of like, you know, interview or whatever. I was like, damn, I didn't realize how hot that guy is

because you just don't see him as hot in the show. Rough. All right, I think that's, do you have anything else for the casting for our actors before we get into some of the dirt, nitty-gritty on the shooting of the show? It was shot in the lot in a Sony lot in Hollywood, which takes up multiple sound stages. Most of the homes are actual practical sets. The coolest one being the motherfucking crazy rotating hallway that they built on the sound stage. They built that. Yeah, there's actually a really cool little, like, special.

clip of showing how it all worked. It was done practically. The extras in the hallway are strapped to the floor and the wall, so it looks like they're casually hanging out, but they are actually like straight up strapped down to it so the gravity wouldn't make them, you know, slam down the floor. And the whole thing rotates. And I did, because I didn't realize until I found out that she was a trained dancer. That makes so much sense. Is there so much movement stuff that she had to do, especially in those drugged outscenes. There are moments in the show that feel like a music video. Oh, yeah.

She's not specifically dancing per se, but she's doing intense movement work. Rhythmic movement, though. Yeah, it's so cool to watch, and it makes so much sense that Zendaya's a super-duper-trained dancer. The lighting schemes were actually preset with color, and so they would have all the schemes preset, so it was more about the movement of the camera captioned the way that they captured the light. It was inspired by the photography of a guy named Todd Hildo. Check out his stuff, Hido. Hido. It's a Hido, H-I-D-O. You'll immediately be like, yep, that's euphoria. It's these, like, these spacious, this kind of almost haunting Americana style, like,

landscape with buildings and stuff that are like, empty, but with like weird fog and neon light coming out of it to give it this surreal feel that that the whole show also has. The show was beautiful. Levinson said, Knight's suburban landscapes that felt almost sci-fi-ish in a way, where you had these kind of striking sions and golds. It was sort of a way to express the kind of alien nature of the world when you're young, which is like fucking so spot on.

It's amazing. It makes a lot of sense that P.T. Anderson's Magnolia was a big inspiration in terms of movement and camera work and dolly work. Magnolia and P.D. Anderson, especially back then with Boogie Knights, and all that stuff. His camera work is just on fire and just crazy. Very, very Scorsese-influenced as well. Levinson said, we wanted it to have a real formality to it.

I think it helps because narrative moves so fast. It helps structure it, and it helps give it something to frame it. Otherwise, it can feel like there is a train going off the tracks. He didn't want to have like a handheld quality to it. He wanted it to feel very composed with the way that all the shots are, which you get. I mean, it was. Every episode was artwork.

Yeah. It was, yeah, it almost has like a Michelle Gondry feel at times, you know, just very, very thought out every little bit of camera work and everything. The cinematographer, shoutouts to Marcel Rev from Hungary. He also did Levinson's Assassination Nation, which is another reason why I want to see the movie because that cinematography is incredible. And as you said, the carnival scene, very difficult, took six nights to film. And it was so cold and dusty Zendaya needed an inhaler to get through it. Which would make sense. It looks dusty, but in the right way.

But who gives a fuck about the filming when we could be talking about the fucking makeup! I swear. I started, man, I'm ready. I bought so much glitter. I just want to look like all of these teenagers. So if you were curious, the name of the makeup designer is Doniella Davy,

probably Davy, who said this was her most challenging project yet. of course it was the sheer amount of variety and variety of looks is unbelievable. I've never like, I don't notice makeup, all right? I'm a stupid fucking moron guy. Well, and that's what, actually one of the quotes like, yeah, is from her. It's like usually so-and-so has their everyday look and that's just their look. Yeah. This was completely different because Sam wanted the makeup to be its own full expression of what was going on with the characters.

If they're experiencing different emotions and circumstances in all these scenes, then the makeup had to be different. So I didn't even also realize, which I want to go back and watch, every time they're in a new outfit or in, like, even, like, sometimes even in like flashbacks or whatever, there's different, specific makeup for each look. Yes, and for each emotional display of what is happening with the character. So smart.

And even though I didn't notice it that literally, I definitely felt it subconsciously in a lot of way, because it just, it was, it stood out in the best way. It didn't stand out like, oh, everybody's just faceful of makeup. It was like, it stood out in this, in this way that just added to the art of the, of everything going on. Davy said, staying inspired was an issue sometimes, especially during the height of my exhaustion. My brain would go numb with all the makeup looks I was looking at and drawing inspiration from, to the point where nothing I looked at felt cool anymore.

I had to keep my creative brain thriving. She also said, makeup represents not only who we are, but also who we feel. like being on any given day, who we need to be that day for our own emotional survival or who we aspire to be. This notion gives makeup in general this fantastical quality. I think you see this a lot in Alexa and Barbie's looks. Makeup as protective armor, but also as a way to raise their self-worth and present superhero versions of themselves. Well, and that's why it's so awesome when they were talking about. Apparently, Davy and Levinson had a huge conversation about whether Rue would wear makeup or not.

And he would be like, yeah, why not? Why make her a stereotypical drug addict who's always going to wear no makeup and walk around in boxers? Why confine her to that restriction when she could be wearing glitter? And Davy also recalls Sam was definitely the brains behind that. She does do something. It just has to be emotionally evocative and it has to be a look she would do. And I was very interested in the fact that, like, so it was at the carnival when she had

the glitter underneath her eyes that Davy referred to as the sad clown look. So Levinson gave her the direction on the shape and the placement because the look naturally gives a moody emotional effect, kind of like tears. Because in the episode before, she had spent a lot of the time crying. So he wanted to evoke the tears, but in a fantastical way. So that we're like the tears didn't go away and the feelings didn't go away, but it turned into glitter on her face, which of that, I, like, I got chills when I read that. I was like, that's amazing.

You're making me want to just, like, go rewatch the whole thing. Watch it again. Oh, by the way, there are far too many brands to name that, uh, that, uh, Donie used. So if you'd like to look to check all those out to get, uh, ideas or to go pick up your own versions of, of the things that were used in, uh, Euphoria. Check out paper magazines interview with Doniella Davy at the, end of it, it lists like every branch.

It's like this giant paragraph, though, so we can be prepared. But yeah, just absolutely amazing. It's so, you know, and usually like, unless, like, going to other things I've researched before, usually, like, the makeup, unless there's, like, it's a big horror movie or something, I never really spend very much time on. So it is such a testament that, like, I, one of my main things I wanted to do was, was focus on the makeup of this show because it is so strong. and so wonderful, and she better fucking win.

And the fact that it's also deliberate, and it makes so much sense that, like, even when it came down to Jules, she said that Davy also often skipped finishing touches, like swiping mascara onto Schaefer's lashes. So Jules' looks wouldn't be totally precise and perfect because she, quote, really doesn't give a fuck. Her character is so cool because she is self-assured.

Even though she makes mistakes and gets herself into trouble and into painful situations, she's so brave. And that makes sense. Yes, that's so smart. Did you have anything else on makeup before we talk about another thing that is so just specific and coordinated and wonderfully done in the show, the soundtrack?

My body is a cage. Oh, my God, dude. That scene. Dude, the whole thing, when that Beyonce... We're talking about the soundtrack is what we're talking about the soundtrack. When that Beyonce track kicks in on the very first episode, But every time the opening Euphoria title card pops,

there's a song to go with it that just crushes it, just knocks it out of the park. Yeah, Beyonce, you got Megan the Stallion we've talked about on page seven, Fiona Apple, Doja Cat, Lizzo, and there are so many other ones. Of course, Drake, who along with Future are executive producers on the show. Which I think is really cool. I think it's a cool project, even though I've got my feelings about Drake. It is a cool project to become a part of.

I was literally reading a thing being like, what did he do on the show? Nobody can tell. He just sort of championed it like in the news and stuff and like was a bit good. I think he just really helped with publicity for the show. Well, also the fact, but then there's things like when Leonardo DiCaprio said, I love that show. And apparently all of the cast, like, I forget which one of the girls made shirts with Leo's face on it. This is I watch that show because they were all like, they're like, that Capriro loves it. That is so fucking funny, man.

I have a lovely end quote for us about Levinson and what the show's impact has on parents and having a dialogue with their kids. Is there anything else you want to cover, though, before we round things out? What else do you have for me? Do you have any good more nuggets to smoke on euphoria? No more nugget. Well, I've got ideas about nudity that things that were said about it. That it's like there's a lot of nudity in euphoria and a lot of discussion. about nudity, particularly regarding sending nudes to one another.

And now at one point, Roo says, I know your generation relied on flowers and father's permission, but it's 2019. Nudes are the currency of love. So stop shaming us. What I like, it's just this line, is part of the show's controversy seems to be pointing out that controversial things just aren't that controversial anymore. How funny too was that dick pick how to or whatever, like remember that? It was great. It was great. It's great. Yeah, let's talk about a couple of favorite moments. The carnival episode is probably my favorite.

The lighting in that episode is incredible. The pacing of that episode is incredible. I loved just the acting that everyone did. I think obviously the My Body is a Cage. Figure skating moment is unbelievably good. Just knocked my socks off with my body as a cage. And I also went into a deep dive into the reviews of the show. And a lot of it is just old people.

that don't fucking get it. Like the review in the Washington Post said you for it is banal and derivative, and worse than that, it's a series designed to profit off of misplaced panic about teenagers. Did you watch the show? Yeah.

That's not what it's about. Yeah, totally. Yeah, all that shit is so, I had to like not look away. I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, this is a time when the internet and I are just not going to get along when it comes to opinions, which is fine.

What character do you think you are? the most. The character, I don't even know. I guess, honestly, in a very different way, I was the Jewel's character. When it came down to my group of friends, because I would consider my best friend who I lost to drug addiction was Rue. And I think that was more than anything was that she reminded me of this person so much that I guess, I mean, of course,

a mixture of jewels and cat, obviously. I mean, I didn't get into webcaming or things like that, but I definitely use sex as a way to deal with how I felt about myself and to hurt myself. I want to be Fezco, and I want to be cat, but I'm not them. I'm actually Nate's dad. Okay. Weirdly.

Yeah, so I sort of secretly get people to go to a hotel room and sort of do horrible things. things. I don't think you would spend the money on it. I don't think I'm anybody. That's why I know that's not true. I don't think I've anybody in the show actually. Also, by the way, shoutouts to some of the actors we didn't mention.

I really thought Nate's girlfriend was a lot of fun to watch. I mean, there's so many. Like, even like also Nate's dad, what's the name of the actor? Nate's dad, knocks it out of the, Eric Dane, I believe. Eric Dane, who, you want to talk dead? Oh, my God. I think it also really showed the difference of age where like, that's the man, I want to kiss.

But he had said, which I thought was very cute, that he used a fake penis for his penis, but he said he would have shown his if the creators, if everyone felt it was important for him to put himself on the line like that, the way his co-stars were doing it, and he was ready to do it. He said, if they had asked him to do it,

would have definitely done it a thousand percent to get the real feelings. But I don't think, you know, it's also rough to do that in front of someone that's so young. You know, just whip your dick out. It's got to be scary. Absolutely. Also, by the way, I'm total, now that I realize it, I'm totally Lexi Howard. I'm Maude Apatel's character. Oh, you are?

Yeah, you're definitely Maudeau's character. You're definitely Maudeau. I was so lame. Dress as Bob Ross. I was definitely always the guy being like, all right, well, see you later. Go do your dirty stuff. I'm going to be your playing a video game. She texts her sister of just like, hey, McKay's here.

You need to get your fucking shit together and get the fuck out of that room. Right, right. 100%. Yeah, exactly. Helping everybody out. Helping everybody that's doing the bad things. So I don't think this is about a page. I don't think parents should panic while they watch this.

I think they should take this with like a grain of salt, but also understand that I think kids are a lot further ahead of, of them than they were at that age. Right. maybe that a dialogue should happen about, you know, the dangers of certain things and what is healthy and what is unhealthy behavior in relationships and all that stuff and, you know, the dangers of drug addiction and everything. Levinson said this about the show's impact on parents. I think what's different about this time is that at least pre-internet, there were more

similarities between one generation and the next. And now I think that gap has grown in a very significant way. I think part of what's so difficult to try and navigate the world at this age right now is there is no map. There's no compass. There's no one to kind of guide you one way or another because it's a brand new world every five years. I think that's what makes it particularly difficult is that kind of very real and big disconnect between parents and children. So of anything, I hope that it at least opens up a dialogue between the two because it's hard being a teenager. It's difficult, especially too, if you're struggling with addiction and battling those things.

Hopefully it'll open up those means of communication. Well, I don't know because we're neither parent nor child, but hopefully it does. Either way, I think that's it. That's our episode on Euphoria. It's been yet another, Ksh, Ksh, Ksh, Ksh, True Hollywood Story. I, um, this, sorry it was so long, there's just so much. Oh, of course. And I didn't want to stop.

I just, it was very interesting going down this rabbit hole. At first when Holden I brought up doing this, I was like, I guess, yeah, I mean, I'm down. I love the show. But then as they started reading into it, it was like, oh, my God, it makes me love it even more. Oh, yeah, it's the bad. This was so much fun to learn about and talk about today with you, Jackie. Yes, thank you, Holden. Join us again soon for another.

Gush, Gush, Gush, Gush, Gush, Gush. I don't know if I like the fake gush, goosh, goosh. Oh, no, everything's getting dark. No, you don't. It's a wrong show, Holden. Wrong show. True Hollywood story. All right. Have a good one, everybody.

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