Page 7 - Pop History: Halloween

Episode Date: October 26, 2021

BOO! Are you scared? On this special holiday edition of Pop History we're diggin' up all things spooky about All Hallows' Eve!Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7PodcastKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0 Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A roast as dark as the night. Perfect for fueling the crypted research and mad ravings required for your podcasting. Don't mind the red eyes. He's just trying to warn you of the bridge. The bridge! Finally, from the caffeine-addled brains of Springheel Jack Coffee and Last Podcast on the left, re-bring you, Mothman's Red Eye Blend. Yes, delicious Panama beans.

Go to lastpodcastmerch.com to order yours today. I was working in a lab late one night With my eyes be held An iriside One monster from his lap He had to rise Suddenly to my surprise You don't even need to say the words

But we're not even just talking about the monster mouse today We're talking about Halloween Welcome to Spooky Spooky Station Are you scared? Boom, are you scared? I'm scared of a lot of things like climate change. Whoa. Yes, we will be talking about that for at least 30 minutes in this Halloween history episode.

No, it's not we're going to talk about. No, we're going to talk about fun and spooky druids and some Halloween specials and overall just what three people that love Halloween have to say about Halloween. Yeah. Because we have that for us. I love how Halloween too is broken up into these different segments as well. You know, there's the Halloween when you were like a little kid. There was that Halloween when you got a little too old to trigger treat.

But then you get to do fun stuff with like, when it's like the, whatever gender you're into, you're getting to like hang out with them and be like, oh, I'm scared. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Yeah. Going to little parties. It's all dark. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. I go to haunted houses and stuff. And, I mean, I would do this thing at house parties where I'd hide in the closet and I'd play kiss the ghoul. You still do. Go in. Yeah. I really, really wish you would stop doing me. I do that not during October, but, you know, it's especially fun during October.

Oh, yeah. So, uh-oh, did you end up in a dark closet with a slimy, you know, because I'll put slime on myself? Yeah, of course, it's ectoplasm. No, of course you're covered in it afterwards. Kiss the ghoul and then potentially perform hand movements on the ghoul. I would say I would love it to watch Lex just punch you in the face if you were referring to her. And I, we would all allow it. We'd all give her a round of my.

applause for doing that's how you knew you were soulmates. Absolutely. Goolmates. I guess why don't we start like, why don't we start really? All right, please. Can we forever with the puns? Why don't we start with the, you know, back in the day, what are your memories of Halloween? I mean, I definitely had, I remember there was the one Halloween where like we went for it and like went hard into the paint.

Did you ever do that with trick-or-treating? Like you went and did like extra neighborhoods and ended up with like a massive trash bag full of candy. Was that ever a thing for you? Jack, are you? You weren't like a big can't. You guys, Zabrowski's weren't into getting that loop. The thing is that being raised in New York City

during the late 80s and 90s was not a good time for trick-or-treating. And actually we were raised with, and I understand a mother that loves, well, you know, our mother is, you know, identifies as Wiccan and, like, does, you know, she's very into, like, the spirits. However, the idea of Halloween and how violent it was when we were growing up, she was very scared, like, we were never allowed to go trick-or-treating without adults.

We was always, like, the kind of thing of, like, everything was watched. Everything was, had to be completely, like, we were never just like, let's go do whatever until you were at the age when you were the Hellion. I do get that because I, even now in New York when Halloween hits, there's a vibe and it's a bit freaky D.E. And especially the kind of thing of like, as kids and I would understand you would watch, and it was almost, I think that there was a Pete and Pete episode like this. Like you would watch people like, I remember specifically in elementary school, you had to move as fast as Bobb because they're just like throwing eggs at you, throwing as you're like. Okay, so I'm so glad you brought that up because of course, classically like I. Right, we first moved to the city.

It's really scary, like, for us. None of us move into a good part of town. We're all kind of close together, at least, but, like, all of it's terrible. And you're talking about New York City, yes. Move it to New York City, right after college. I'm talking about when me, Henry, Carly, and Jeff. And I remember I came to visit you guys, and it was a very scary. Henry's like, that's where I got mucked and I got mugged over there, and I went on the mugging door.

By around the time Halloween came around, I forget how many months I was, Henry had already been mugged twice. And he was like, the kids, they throw eggs to you during Halloween. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about Henry? Like, I had been out alone with other people plenty of times. I think this is maybe a year in even on Halloween and never had any issues. I'm walking with Henry home from the subway and whap. Whap.

What the hell? It's acts. And we had to start to sprint. And it's like the only time I've ever been like attacked like that in L.A. It was definitely a weird. In New York? Henry would. If this happened in LA, if this happened two weeks ago,

can you imagine? I'd try for three days and I'd be like, I'm gonna hunt him down and I'm gonna find him. That was before him, that was after Henry got mugged twice, but before he got knockout game, hello. Oh, he did. He didn't get knocked out of the ground. He was a magnet for abuse.

It's because he has a good soul. Yeah, I think they could smell the sweetness to him. I will say a car did jut off the street and kind of veer to hit me and then pulled off at the exact last second and I was like a block away from my apartment. That's kind of the hostility I was... Wait, is that true? Surrounded by.

Yes, dude. It was... Was it a Halloween night? No, it was just a normal night of terrors living off of the... Were you playing Kiss the Gould right before they did that? Oh, and it followed you. See, that will happen. I was playing fondled the foundling.

And you have to say, no kiss his backsees before you leave the closet. Right. or else the ghoul will follow you home. And now this is the thing, and not to be negative about it, but it's like I feel like growing up in fear of Halloween and then becoming the teenagers where you were the bad ones at Halloween, and then moving to New York and having Halloween again in New York where it was just a night to be like,

try to not be sexually harassed or have anything horrible happen to you. So you go out being like, oh, I hope I black out before anything too bad happens to me. And I feel like it is like the circle of Halloween where as a spooky lover myself, I've always been a little hesitant of Halloween proper. You're more of a stay-at-home, watch scary movies kind of now. Which I love that. When you're living a spooky lifestyle,

Halloween's sort of amateur hour time. Yeah, a little bit. And like when I was working in indie horror all the time, it was just so, this is bleh, whatever, this is when all the fucking posers come out. But now that we have a house and stuff, I'm way back into it again. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm just like, I'm going to decorate everything.

It's going to be crazy. Well, now that we have, like, babies around. And it's like the idea of like, no, like, we can have like a really cool party where we all like love and respect each other. And there's like a good amount like a good amount of D.Ds. Oh, oh, Jackie. There is, I didn't tell you, there is a zone in our house for Halloween that is the sexual harassment zone. Oh, no. The non-consensual corner.

Oh, no. a darkened closet and there will be a sign on the front that says kiss the ghoul. Kiss the ghoul in it and whether you want to or not. And it will be scary. All right, I'm ready. I'm scared. What about, how about some maybe costume favorites? Especially, I want to ask you about what, like, what your costume approach was when

you were a little kid. Because for me, it was very specific. It was, go to the Halloween store and it was scary in there because there were scary masks. So you'd have to, like, I'd have to be led past the scary mask. But I was definitely the kind of kid that would. just want to buy the biggest, dumbest rubber mask possible. That was, one year, by the way, I was Bill Clinton wearing this, like, huge rubber

Bill Clinton mask. I had, like, I wore a suit with, like, a donkey, Democratic donkey tie. And did that. Was this post-impeachment? This was pre-impeachment. This was pre, this was probably wild, like, literally the night he shoved the cigar up, her vagina. Oh, wow.

Oh, yeah. I'm guessing that was all Hallows Eve when he performed that on her. It is spooky. It is. Very scary. But, oh, yeah, definitely. The Clintons are very smooth. Very, very scary. That was actually the scariest thing I probably dressed up.

I think you 100% did it. And I love the idea of picking the scary thing. I will say as, even though my mom felt the way that she felt, my mom is a beautiful seamstress. So she would make us his kick ass costumes. And my favorite, beyond favorite, I love the little mermaid. So my mom made me an aerial costume.

That's awesome. That was a, because it's cold in New York, it was a long-sleeved, like, not see-through- at all, nude body suit that she stitched the shells over where the, like, the shell, like, she, like, stitched it over top of the nude body suit. And then she built this stuffed mermaid tail that went down that was like, that looked beautiful, but my legs went through the tail. and the fin came up on the side and she attached an invisible wire to my wrist

so that the mermaid tail looked like it was up like I was floating in the sea. Oh my God. The coolest costume. See, that's the coolest. That's right. Yeah, that's my mom also so, yeah, wait. I didn't even start talking about,

I have so many things to say about my childhood Halloween. I already know where to start. Natalie, take it away. Growing up in Pennsylvania, yeah, like the trigger trading was a huge, huge, huge thing. And it was fun and everything, but my dance studio did Halloween shows for many years. So we did Halloween performances that also included a haunted house that we created. So that was something that I was obsessed with. And that started probably when I was about nine or ten.

And so that, that to me was what was really fun and exciting about Halloween was putting on the performance and like putting the haunted house together and being in the haunted house. And I mean, it was a, it's not, it wasn't a good, it was a stupid haunted house. But, you know, it was like mostly kid made with parents helping. And, but it was fun as fuck, man. But, yeah, so sometimes my mom is a, she can sew as well, but she's like a full time working mom my whole life. so there would be years where she'd have these like beautifully crafted costumes for me. And then the following year I'd be wearing essentially a trash bag from Ritey with like a mask on top of it. It does the trick.

Yeah, it does it, you know. Have you guys ever gone to a haunted house though, thinking that it was a haunted house and then finding out it was a hell house? Oh, we're going to talk about hellhouses. Oh, we're going to talk about hellhouses. By the way, coming up after we essentially talk about our own personal histories of Halloween, we will be talking about the history of Halloween. Natalie has brought us a little cap on a little cap. A summary of different famous haunts.

And I will be talking about the best Halloween specials out there to get you all excited, maybe throwing some stuff on the TV. But there was nothing quite like when you would, I just remember going to a haunt, thinking that it was a haunted house, but it turned out being a hell house, which... I know that's a good one. By the way, hellhouse is right, like a Christian thing, right?

Yeah. I'll tell you guys about it in the haunts section. Usually put on by church organizations and at least the specific one that I went to, I remember seeing one about like a woman being demonized by like after getting an abortion. And I was like, oh, wait a second. Like even though I was young, because this is when we were in Florida, even though I was young, I was like, why is, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, no, I don't believe in this. This is not how I was raised to think. And then as you go through it, it was just like, whoa, wow, why are you doing this? There's some, I have a fun little list of some of the more obscure hellhouse themed rooms that we're going to do. But did you know, did you guys, did your mom take you there? Did she know it was a hellhouse?

No, I went with friends. And so they, and my friends didn't know. And they're like, yeah, well, it's like still scary though, right? I think that it's bad that they're villainizing things like this. And I remember thinking that, and I must have been like 13 or 14. Wow. And even then not liking any of that.

Yeah. You know, I have to make an admission. I don't really think I have ever, have done a lot of haunted houses. And that's kind of surprising even to me. And I understand. I do. I don't like the part where like they might,

you know, and I know that you can kind of say, don't touch me or whatever. Like maybe I don't love the part where, um, I don't love being like maybe super manipulated in that way. It would depend. It would have to be the right kind of haunted house experience. I think I would be down, but it's not something

I'm like, I need to hit the haunted house. As somebody personally who is like very much invested in haunted houses and haunts and like loves everything about them, I do not go through them because of trauma. Yeah, right? Let's talk about that for Halloween. Oh, right? Let's do 20 on that.

I agree. I agree. I think that there's something about being in enclosed spaces with people who maybe haven't had background checks that's a little scary to me. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So. I have never shamed to anyone that does not like going through these experiences. Everyone has different backgrounds. Everyone has gone through different things.

And there are some people that I 100% know. Like being from Florida and knowing so many people that worked Halloween Horror Nights of like some people's like immediate reaction is to deck somebody in the face when they get scared. I get it. I want so badly to be able to go through them comfortably because I love the set design and the builds and all that stuff. But I don't know. I don't know that dude who's coming at me. I also love watching documentaries about them or watching like, yeah, I love that kind of stuff and getting really into that. And I know that you'll probably be talking about that as well later, Natalie.

I know that there's some great docs out there. There's a really good episode of This American Life called Hell House, I believe, that they cover it. And I think that led to a documentary about Hell House as well. There is a documentary from 2002. And it's great. And I've definitely seen it. But going back to costumes before we kind of get into the different segments, was it always a franchised thing?

Because there's kind of two ways to go about it, right? There's like ambiguous concepts. Like one year I was just like, I want to be an alien. And I think that was a much more fun costume. And I think that's a much more like enjoyable costume experience. As opposed to the year I was just Snoopy because I got a giant rubber Snoopy mask. No, I didn't do a lot of franchised ones. The only one that I remember doing technically was franchised.

but my mom made it by hand is a costume I probably couldn't wear now, but it's the, the, Hitler. The indigenous. Yeah. It was fine in the late 80s, okay? No, it was, uh, it was the indigenous woman from Peter Pan. Oh, okay. Yeah, what are you going to do?

I mean, come on, you're a cat. Strong silent type. I understand. But also it was a different time, and I completely. Yes. I think she was called Tiger Lily. Tiger Lily. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I understand. I also went as Tina Turner one year for Halloween. Oh, that's cute. not like I did not put any like you know I didn't black face by any right like I was I was like I'm Tina Turner just because I love Tina Turner so much and like like made a really like short fun dress with I just I really like that but now looking back it's like oh I don't know you I shouldn't have done that I think it's at least I didn't put the makeup on you know it's definitely fine at the time and I think it's

fine love Tina Turner so much and I had the big hair so my mom was able to like tease out my hair to make it really big. That's awesome. I think kids, like, they're idols. I think that the innocence of being a kid is that you can dress up whoever your hero is as a child. You just, you know, don't do certain things that might have historical context of being very terrible.

I think it's really sweet you dress up as Tina Turner. I will also say one of, I have a lot of weird rules about couples costumes. Ooh, okay. And one of my, I think one of my favorite couples costumes that I did with my ex is we went as the wet bandits. That's awesome. He was Daniel Stern and I was Joe Pesci and I had the like the hat on where I put the bald cap and a bunch of feathers around and he built it like the and he designed like the

iron on like so it was like it was the full after effect. It was the after of it and that was one of my favorite costumes because I am usually like I'm not trying to be sexy on Halloween but I mean I'm just effortlessly sexy. You can't help it. I cannot help it. But again, and I have screamed about this on Twilight, I'm very upset because I've been trying to get Jeff to go as Bella and me to go as Jacob.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Won't do it. He won't do it. It would require such little work to put a Bella costume together. I know. This is the thing. My one that we always wanted to do is, for a laugh, Lexi and I, was when Game of Thrones was, you know, liked at all by people.

Whoa. was I was going to go as Denaries and she was going to go as a dragon. Love it. And her roommate was like, but why? You're blonde. You would be today. We were like, that's the joke.

That's the funny part. You know one of my other things I like when couples do it? If the other person has a distinct look when they go as each other, I always enjoy that. Henry dresses me one year. Yeah, that's a good one.

He looked very nice. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's just very, it always gets a laugh. out of me for sure. Holden, I loved when you and Lexi did Wayne and Garth. That was perfect. Yeah, that was the first time we finally nailed a couple's costume. So for the longest time, the joke was, Lexi would, like, tell me a couple's

costume we were going to do, and then I would just wear, like, a hot dog suit, and she would just be one half of a couple's costume. That was, like, kind of my, the running gag, but I finally folded and did Wayne and Garth with her, and she was so good as Garth, like, she... She crushed Garth. I almost, like, she was so good. I, like, didn't even want to do it because I was like,

I'm so not as good as Wayne as you are at Garth. And it's like making me look bad. She killed it so hard. And the, I will say my favorite all-time costume, the only time I actually like went to Michael's, got all of the stuff, like constructed it completely down to the tiniest detail. And that was in college. I went as Alex from Clockwork Orange.

Oh, I went as a sexy Alex from Clockwork Orange in college. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. I had everything. I had the cod piece. I had the eyeball. Yeah, me too. Cuff links and like every little detail.

And it was like, the best thing about it too was it just wasn't storebought. It was like fully constructed. Like, and I think that was why it was so satisfying. And yet I've never really before or since like put that much effort in. And I kind of miss that a little bit. The problem is now that you get to an age where I'm going to be full disclosure here. I've been trying to think about, I want to do go as the jigslist. Saw puppet from Saw.

However, do I buy... And Jeff could be the tricycle. But do I buy an adult-sized tricycle to go with it? And Jeff, it's like, what are you going to do with the tricycle afterwards? I'm like, what if I'm a tricycle person? What if then like, oh, there's Jackie.

She shows up on her tricycle. I mean, tricycles are fun. That's fun. He's like, you have to promise me you're going to use the tricycle again if you buy a tricycle. I'm going to say this right now, Jackie. Tricicle would be really cool. in your garden.

Right. It would look cool. You never, you would put plants on it and you never ride it again. You're thinking of like a child tricycle. A adult tricycle is this like a huge. Yeah.

It's like a beach cruiser. Right. Like a big bag. And then he's like, now you have to do this. You have to. It's so good. I just wish I could get a cartoonishly small tricycle,

which is what I thought that I could do. It was like, how do I get a tricycle that can fit me but is made for children? The problem is, too fat for it and I cannot buy. Right, you don't want to, yeah. Oh, and that's, yeah, that's one of the other funny things with Halloween. Before we move on to the history, I will say, there's two caveats, right?

Thinking, now we all know the deal. Is it going to be annoying to just be in it all night, right? Is it going to be just the worst to, like, lug around? Is there like a big prop or something? And then the thing we talked about on page seven, but I want to repeat on this episode, because it's specific to Halloween. is I think it's hilarious what other people do it, and I always advise against a costume you have to explain to people all night.

That is the worst, because what's funny is because now we always go to Halloween parties and stuff, right? And I think it's just, you know, the worst thing you do for yourself, because people are already feeling awkward, not knowing what to talk about. So they will ask. Every single person will ask. And so if you're just this abstract concept, I feel like, you know, that you have to explain. And then how can you show people that you're better than them? Yeah, exactly.

True. That you have put. You had to put obscure. It's a reference to something obscure and very intellectually cool. Right, right. Which is how you describe obviously all of us. Yes. Yep.

No, see, for me, I go pretty much full slutty every year and I love it. And I probably always will. I always remember, you know, Dan Savage talking on Savage Love about how Halloween is straight pride. and to let the people dress as slutty as they want on Halloween. It is straight pride day or whatever. It is our time to go out and just be, you know. I think it should just be celebrate your like, like you do whatever the fuck you want to do day.

It's like you want to be sexy, be sexy. You don't fucking don't. Yeah, totally. But also don't shame people. Like I love the sexiness of all the, you know, people, you know, like might feel a little more conservative the rest of the year. I was trying to go, Jeff and I had to go as sexy Calvin and Hobbs

and the only issue is that I'm kind of creeped out about you being a sexy little boy. That is the only thing that has kept us for not doing it. Yeah, I would pick adults, but that's the right mindset. I get it. Yeah, good job. That was the right answer. The right lane. So yeah, why don't we get into it, Jackie,

please, regale us. Let's get ready to Sawin. because we are going to be talking about the history of Halloween. Obviously, we all have, like, probably way too much information to cover. There is so much about Halloween and how it began and how it was created into this like American monster that we now have. It's so different from the beginning, and that's why we're going to start back there. Now, Sawin, yes, a lot of people think that is pronounced Sam Hain because that is how it's spelled.

Sure is. But it is not how it is said. It is pronounced Sawin. Now, Sawin means summer's end in Celtic. Nice. Love it. Get summer out of here. And also it sounds like how you'd say it if you've had like six drinks.

Yes. Well, it's also how a little, a cute little kid says, they're sorry. Sawin. But it's a lot more badass than that. There's no babies saying Sawis over here. Hell no. The day, essentially, Halloween was based on was a Celtic celebration that was mostly in the areas about 2,000 years ago,

mostly in the area that is now Ireland, the UK, and northern France, and it was celebrated on November 1st. Now, this day marked the end of summer and the harvest and the beginning of the dark, cold winter. Now, the Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. So on the night of October 31st, They celebrated Sawin when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to the earth. And it was the thinnest time period of the shell between the afterlife and the current life. So there's so much fucking cool as shit ideas when it comes to Sawin that I lost myself. I have so much information and I can't get into any of it.

So I have some clips of some examples of why the idea of what they did during Sawin and how they celebrated the fact that it was becoming the dark time of year. And they felt that they need to sacrifice animals and sacrifice things to their gods to provide enough for them to get through the winter. So they were having a ho-down. Now, during the Sawin Festival, the family's ancestors were honored. and invited home, whilst harmful spirits were warded off. So to appease their gods, they built bonfires and sacrificed crops and animals. People wore costumes and masks to disguise themselves as harmful spirits and thus avoid harm. So this is like a mixture of not only celebrating the people that have already passed on,

but also keeping away at the same time the scarier spirits that were also out. so they would try to disguise themselves so that they wouldn't know to go after them or to follow them home. The bones of slaughtered livestock were cast into a communal fire. Household fires were extinguished, and this was the time of year, that their hearth would be relit from the community's bonfire that they would be throwing all of these sacrifices into. Food was also prepared for the living and the dead and would be put outside of their homes, so that it would draw back their family to come and eat with them and also leave out food for other people as well. It was like a community building time experience.

Even if it's like fake bones, I kind of wish we still did this in some way. Yeah. This is great. It's so cool. It's such a connection to the earth. Uh-huh. So also, fast, fun fact, the reason that bats are associated with like doom and gloom and spooky times in Halloween is because of the size. in tradition, because the fires

that the druids were creating. Now, the druids were the learned class of the Celts. The fires would attract bugs, which would attract bats, and so the bats would be, like, flying and, like, swooping down into the bonfire. Metal. And can you imagine just a bunch

of people, like, dressed in, like, animal skins and animal skulls dancing around a fire with, like, bats swooping down. This is bad ass. Yeah. That's awesome. And part of the reason why it was so built into like the fire aspect is that since the sun was not out as much, they felt that they were giving the sun a reason, like they were giving the fire turned into

the light that they would essentially give to the sun to hopefully help their harvest through the winter. Bad ass. Totally metal. Also, so apparently Sondland is the juncture between the two halves of the year, right? It could be said that time stood still on this night, and the implications of this were immense. During this night, the natural order of life was thrown into chaos, and the earthly world of the living became hopelessly entangled with the world of the dead. Yeah. The world of the dead was itself a complicated place. Because again, it is not only your family members and people that you know and people that have passed on, but also the creepy sides of it. So what ends up happening?

How do we get to the Halloween that we're already at, right? Those, ooh, those pexy, pesky Romans come in. And they, oh, kill, kill, kill. They eventually take over the Celtic lands. And in 1,000 AD, again, I am making this. This is the abridged version of Halloween. So in 1,000 AD, the Roman Catholics made November 1st, which was Sawin. They turned into all.

Saints Day to celebrate the communion of the dead. They turned November 2nd into All Souls Day, which was a day to honor and pray for the dead. So what they did was they took this cool festival and they made it boring. They took all of the fun out of it. But what they were trying to do was to like remind all these people that they were forcing to follow their religion. Yes. Be like, but remember like we're still going to keep parts of like what you guys used to do.

Look, we're still going to do like your festival, but we're going to do like your festival. but we're going to make it not as fun. I want to throw bones into the fire. You want to, of course, everybody wants to throw bones into the fire. Of course. Come on. So it's like, so they took it and kind of fucked all over it. And so yada, yada, yada.

And there's, I looked, I've way too much into the difference between all saints day and all souls day. But let's just say long story short, it was based on they took a martyr's day, all martyrs day that used to happen in May. Wow. turned it into this. So it was more about like the martyrs of everything that was going on. And everybody's just like, fine.

I'll do it. I'll do it if I have to. You're like, you're being such a fucking martyr right now. And they go, thank you. Being here to you want. But I also did want to, I feel like I must discuss just for a second, the Aldeia de los Mertos, that also happens at this time period because you just see all of the different communities and cultures that have taken.

from this pagan festival that Dea de los Werto is so much more fun than what All Saints Day and All Souls Day was, because essentially it was not a Catholic observance. It was actually just so that family members could go to graveyards to celebrate their loved ones, and it was way more a celebration of life than the mourning, the death, and the praying for the death. So that happens that was originated in Mexico and it is now, it's still celebrated through Latin America and we have parts of that that have come to the U.S. So yada, yada, yada. America comes around.

All right. And we are the bastard child. Yeah, we fucking everything. Just we take all of the things and we push it into one. We're like, yeah, no, it's great. It's new. It's different. Like, no, you're just taking all of these other cultures.

It's a burger that's got everything in it. It's got mops. It's got ham. It's got, yeah, yeah. It's like that we don't need. But we got, I think we got credited for pumpkins, though, right? I think we did. No.

No, but what about the neeps? No, you're a pumpkin liar, Natalie. The neaps. The neaps came first. Are those tiny little men? Oh, okay. I thought there was like tiny little men that lived in the ground. That we used to carve, yeah.

I do want to touch on this, like, ridiculous story of what possibly one of the theories of Jack Lanterns are. But I know that we all know, all hollows evening, it is a contraction of the word, which All Hallows Day is what All Saints Day used to be called. I'm boring myself, boring, boring, and now it is way more fun. Now, the idea of jackalantons, and they referred to them as neaps originally because they were carved out of turnips, ino scouts. And I just love that one.

One of the theories is that Jackalanturn originated from Irish folklore. So as the story goes, a man called Stingy Jack invited the devil out for drinks. It's very anti-climactic name. Stinchy Jack and asked him to play a parlor game to see if the devil could turn himself into a coin so that he could pay for the drinks. After the devil obliged, Jack ran off with the coin. and the devil was trapped inside it. Jack freed the devil based on the deal that he would not claim Jack's soul when he died.

Jack also played another trick on the devil to extend his life. When Jack finally died, God wouldn't allow him into heaven, and the devil wouldn't allow him into hell. Instead, Jacko-lantern aimlessly roams the earth for eternity with a lantern carved from a turnip to light him. his way, whether this theory about the origin of the term Jackal injured is proven or not, it's still

kind of fun. I feel you could have made up anything. Jack the Brogue was a shoe eater, and he challenged the devil do a game of penis. See, but this is what happened. People say, oh, television ruined everybody's brains, but this is what people were doing before they had TV. Yeah, exactly.

They were just making someone. Trying to find the devil and turn him into a coin. Bill the basket maker had a hand. the size of his legs. I do want to talk about real quick the difference of where trick or treating started versus where it is now because again, our Halloween is just a bunch of the cultures smashed together because during Sawin, Thawain, to peace evil spirits, people left food and drink outside to protect their homes

from spiritual retaliation. So eventually people took advantage of the offerings by dressing up as the dead and going from door to door for provisions in exchange for protection from wicked spirits. This was referred to as mumming. So mumming during 500 years ago

that they would have to perform like a song or a dance to get their food. Now I try to do that. I try to do that to my neighbors and they won't give me anything. Tell me to leave. They always are screaming.

Natalie, get out of here. But what I do really like is that, I mean, I guess I don't like? Is it when all souls day and all saints day and the Roman Catholics put their stamp on it, they turned it instead that the tradition was for poor people to go door to door to the homes of wealthy families

to ask for food and exchange for prayers for the people that have died of their family. By the way, that reminds me so much of, remember the Macy's episode. Ragamoff a day. Ragam off a day. That's where they got the idea from is because of ragam up a day. And that's why I needed to talk about this.

And that was referred to as Soling SOU. So that was soling. And eventually the idea of Soling mixed with the idea of guising, which was from mostly like the Irish and the Scottish that came over, like immigrants that came to America, where children

would put the cold dirt on their face to protect themselves from evil spirits, which if you look up again, Ragamuffin Day, you will see that. And also original Halloween costumes of... Terrifying.

Children in the 30s? Horrifying. So scary. Oh, it's very, very scary. But then now we have trick-or-treating instead, which was guising and souling put together. And one makes it, I ain't praying for nobody. Nah. Yeah, you know, and then the whole part of it where, you know, you could do a dirty trick,

that all went away as well. I wonder around the time when the trick part of trigger-treating away. But then we had Devils' Night. Didn't you guys have Devils' Night? Uh, kind, I kind of remember that. Isn't that just the night before Halloween? Yeah, the night before Halloween was when the tricks would happen. But, I mean, it wasn't huge.

But kids would smash pumpkins and stuff. That was a problem as, I referred to that as, I referred to that as beg for sex night. Ah, please me, may, may, may, say. Please let me have just a look at it. Let me just smell a bit of it. They did really do trick or treat during the Great Depression, like up until around the Great Depression. The problem was that people were so poor that the, tricks went to such lengths of like burning down people's houses and things and no one so that they like kind of just got rid of that

it's not a good look that's interesting how that will tie into the haunt you're welcome there you go is that all of the musings you have for us in this history of horrors jackie yeah except for the fact that like during like all of the soling which i forgot to say um that they were given out of They were given things called soul cakes, which were little cakes with a cross on the top. And when they were eaten, it represented a soul being freed from purgatory. No, thank you. Can I just have a Hershey bar? Like, I just want to.

There's a lot of cannibalism in Christianity. Yeah. No, it's all, honestly, again, this was a very abridged version. I ran through it. This is hundreds and hundreds of years of history, but totally look into it because a lot of his rock and roll. Before we move into the famous haunts, I have a question for y'all from personal experience. Did any of you,

is anyone ever experienced someone they knew or anyone who actually did get something in their candy that was no bueno? I mean, that was always the hilarious, you know, it was like the rainbow party of Halloween, right? Yeah, no, not my life. The fake thing that didn't exist that would terrify parents.

No. You know what I mean? I guess it's more possible now with all these like edibles and stuff. Well, that was just a big running joke on Twitter is that there was like this article about like, make sure you check all of your children's candy for edibles. And then all these people just responding like,

I can't wait until Halloween until like buy a lot of edibles and just give them away to children. Yeah, why would I give them away? No, I want them here. That'd be fun to see a bunch of fucking baked out kids trying to find their houses at the end of the night. You know what I mean? I mean, come on. You'd sit in the porch. You'd load them up in early.

Be like, you should eat one now. And then just sit there and wait for him to kind of wander back. I think it might put you on some sort of registry though if you do that. You're talking to the Kiss the Gool guy. Oh, you're right. You're right. I'm sorry. You're right.

I did have a friend that was abducted on Halloween. But I will say that that only made my mother more scared of Halloween. How old? Like, were they recovered? Like eight. Jesus. She was gone for a while and she came back and I will say I never. spoke with her again. Oh my God. She's doing well.

She's doing well. Oh my God. Spookiest story of the day. That would definitely be the scariest thing we might talk about. Well, we'll see because actually, I think Natalie's going to end up covering some legitimately terrifying stuff because once you get into the extreme haunt stuff, I get freaked out for sure. Yeah. Well, yeah, freaked out in a different way, I think. Yeah, it's like disturbed in a weird like, we're just torturing people under the guise of a haunted house. Anyways, I know, I'm sure you're going to build to that probably. Yeah, we'll talk about that there at the end, but, um. Oh my God, those docs, though, like, when you go into like, though, like, I don't understand

it. And I, I, I understand people, I guess, that, that get the thrill out of it, but don't put me in a, in a trunk of a car and do me somewhere and waterboard me. I mean, I'm, so crazy. I assume you're talking about McKamee Manor, which we'll discuss. at the end, but, um, yeah, people who do that, he interviews, I don't, I don't like him. I don't think, I don't support he does, but, no, horrible person. He interviews them beforehand, asks them what they're the most afraid of and then, like, caters the experience to their worst

fears. Totally. So to an extent, they kind of know what they're getting into, but I have enough anxiety as it is. Like, that's what my brain is all the time already. Why, who are these people that are actively searching for, well, honestly, a lot of them, a lot of them, a lot of them, are like military veterans and stuff. People have gone through hardcore shit. And it's like the other side of how I'm, I can't walk through like in closed spaces

and get people who might attack me. Some people trauma makes them go like, I need to go do this. Uh-huh. Interesting. Yeah. Drawn to it. Interesting.

Yeah. And like so the history of haunts goes way back in time all the way back to the ancient Egyptians. Sorry. Not sorry. No. Not Sawie. No, actually, Egyptians, the way that they're connected to an extent is that they were, you know, to protect their dead, they were creating like traps and mazes around, you know, their most precious people. So they had that sort of mysterious aspect to their practices and their religion. in their religion at the time. And then at the same time, Greeks and Romans also

used, you know, all of their mythology has like labyrinths and creatures hiding behind things. And then they, since they were, you know, the ones bringing theater into the world, they also involved a lot of spooky elements. So those

are the very, very beginning roots of where we would kind of get to. Also, like, the Greeks pioneered special effects. a lot of the time they had they created the right yeah they created the ex machina which made people fly oh yeah they made fake blood and gore and they also had this thing called an a keklemma a khe which is a platform used it was like a kla kla it was used to like reveal dead bodies to the audience it was like a so it's like a like a

Jump scare, essentially. And then from there, one of the biggest contributors to the Haunted House attraction industry up till now, Christianity. Oh, yeah. Christianity is terrifying. You know, the symbol in itself is a man being slow, torture, porn to death. So as far back as the Dark Ages, 1300 through 1500s, Christian prophets would travel around scaring pagans into Christianity through one of the... Right, like with a hellmouth and stuff, too, right? which I was always, that was like in theater history

when we talked about going around performing the plays. I was very into the hellmouth part of the theater history class. I was like, tell me more about this. Yeah. Hellmouth. Yeah, and they would go around and they would basically act out the scariest parts of the Bible. And then they'd be like, and that's what will happen if you stay pagan. I was like, no, all right, fine.

Yeah, so, you know, of course, like you just said pagan is. is where the roots of Halloween come from, but Judeo-Christian culture picked up chunks of it, tried to make it boring, and then people were like, no, let's do the other more fun version. So over the generations, those macabreactive performances would take many turns.

You know, we're doing the very abridged version. We're going through time. Oh, yeah. And then in the 1800s, the mid-1800s, one of the innovations that we still use today was created called Pepper's Ghost, which was developed by scientist John Henry Pepper. It's still used all the time,

and it's that illusion that you would see in the haunted mansion where the people are waltzing and it looks like ghosts because of rejection. Yeah, it's using those reflections and stuff, which we also talked, we did an episode on on Just the Haunted Mansion where we got into detail on that thing, but that is one of the cooler things,

think even as a child growing up, and it still mystifies me that effect, right? But I think it's one of the cooler early, like, you know, go surreal kind of kind of thing. Yeah. And that was, that started to happen in 1862. So the first time it was premiered, I believe it was a staging of Christmas Carol. Oh, cool. I believe it was the first time it was used. But then it became. The scariest Christmas story, arguably. Yeah, for real. It's very upsetting. Yeah. I think about it of all time. We're just like, Like, well, you know what, I'm ready to, maybe I'll do it over again. Do I need to learn?

I'm ready to learn from my mistakes. Yeah, please, just let this stop. So, yeah, and that actually in itself, Pepper's Ghost was just an improvement on the practice of phantasmagoria from the late 18th century, which was a style of horror-themed theater using lanterns to project like ghouls on the wall. So we have the effects in the theater. Goals on the closet. Closet. Man, now we have to have a Kiss the Gould part of your Halloween party, Natalie, just saying. I think that can happen pretty easily.

Yeah, that's right. You just walk in with your eyes closed and your lips, perks. And then you're just playing Kiss the Girl from Little Mermaid, which actually is a very scary song if you listen to it. Yes. I mean a lot. There's a lot of very scary, romantic songs. You know? I might be on the floor by the shoes.

I might be up high by the jewel. Please tell me before I go in, just so I know, before I'm puckered, all right? You don't know which lips I'm going to puckered, though. Uh-oh, uh-oh. They nicknamed it my hell mouth, the mouth I kiss you with. That's right. Anyway, we'll get to that history part in the late 80s when ghoul's closets invented. Well, he had oral herpes that night?

We'll see. So far we have the effects, the theater, the mazes, that stuff falls all playing in. Then we get into the walkthrough concept. The origins of the haunted house actually date back to some 19th century London stuff, where a series of illusions and attractions introduce the public to a new form of gruesome entertainment. In 1802, Marie Toussad scandalized British audiences with an exhibition of wax sculptures of decapitated French figures, Hell yeah. Including Louis the 16th, I believe, Maria Antoinette and others.

Toussaud's likenesses were remarkably accurate. She created death masks of the French Revolution's many guillotine victims. And that's the same Toussad that does the wax museum. Oh, yeah, this is Madame Tussaud, yeah. So there isn't any actual proof that she was creating the likenesses of these people, but that was her schick. And clearly it worked because you can still go to a Madame Tussau's. Wax Museum. Yeah. So she, when she set up a permanent London exhibition, she dubbed her grotesque collection, the chamber of horrors, a name that is stuck to the Wax Museum to the state. So at that point, that's when you would get these sort of walking through, experiencing it from all sides element of it. Then we get into the early 1900s, traveling carols were prominent and really popular. And those, you know, those thrills and chills sometimes involved a quote unquote freak show.

many of those same carnies couldn't afford big rides like roller coasters. So they would bring people through these midway freak shows. And there would be, you know, most of it was fake. But it was tough to make you feel scary. Sort of like being in the middle museum or you're just like, here's a severed head that still talks. It is the best. By the way,

one of my favorite memories I've ever had was going to a really, the really cheesy haunted house ride at Coney Island. Yeah. Which feels very carnival-esque. creepy because it's so, like, worn down. Like, oh, I thought it was, like, really hokey and funny, but my ex was, like, just so easily terrified that, like, I just laughed and laughed while she just screamed and dared her.

Like, the dumbest, like, bat, little bat that would pop out. You'd be like, what? I was just like, you are ridiculous. You were so mad at me for taking her on that ride. But sometimes those are the scariest ones, though, when they are that, like, or you're like, I don't know. Or they like break down. That's what happened.

Yes, exactly. When we went to the place, Rye Playland, where the movie Big was filmed, which is one of the scariest. I think I talked about this before, but it's like it's one of the scariest theme parks I've ever been to, but also the haunted house that we broke down in for an hour.

And I tell you, when you are on a little rinky dink ride that breaks down inside of haunted house, no matter how rinky dink it is, you're just like, all right, ready to not be in here anymore. Yeah. Yeah.

Also, it's those ones where the lore is always, is that actually a skeleton in there? Right. Oh, this is a real bodies that they used. Was it a man's ex-girlfriend? Right. That he took on the ride, yeah. So, yeah, those same carnivals that were using freak shows as a form of walk-through entertainment, they couldn't have afford the roller coasters so they would come up with fun houses and tunnels

of love and dark rides. And obviously, I'm sure at this point, people are tired of hearing me. say it. I am a dark ride fucking obsessed an aficionado. I love them. They're my favorite things in the world. And at the same time, amusement parks were beginning to pop up. And my hometown park, which is Kenneywood, first opened in 1890. And it has one of its first rides is still there to this day. It's a dark boat ride called The Old Mill. It opened in 1901. And they still have a Noah's Ark too, which opened in 1936. Ah, yeah. Which is also very scary because- terrifying.

It's very, it's biblical, it's like a biblically themed, uh, dark walkthrough ride and it, you go through Noah's Ark and it's really scary. And then there's the whole part where you're like, you have to like walk, but the, the, the, the ground is like, like slamming you back and forth against the hallway. Yeah. I just need to get through the fucking Noah's Ark. Yeah. I didn't know Noah's Ark was going to be this scary.

Yeah, it's real scary. Uh, because I think the actual Noah's Ark would have been a nightmare. Sure. All this animals fucking, geez, Louises. You see how much fucking elephant come we'd be swimming in, much less the chimpanzees and they cheat on each other. They're always arguing. Oh, ooh.

That's a different kind of podcast. I guess. Yeah, so then we get to what Jackie, where you were talking about, the Great Depression was a time of great economic and social change that affected many parts of American life, including Halloween. parents concerned about their sons running amok on all Hallows Eve organized haunted houses or trails to keep on the streets.

Put them in the houses. You can't because, oh, once they're a mucking out there, it's like they can't stop. It's true. And it's been, you know, now we consider it somewhat of an adult event as well. But children at the time, it was seen as a positive outlet for young men to blow off steam by like, like tearing their neighborhood apart. Yeah, you know, boys will be boys. Yeah. So they would like, they would range. There would be what I would consider, you know, what crimes were happening. But it got much worse during the Great Depression because people's stress levels were so high. And they're just, people's like, kids just started to like tear down telephone poles and do all this crazy shit.

And again, this, I put in my notes here, is this, this is rag muffin day? I think this is ragged me. Oh, yeah. Excuse me, sir, can you spare some ragamuffin? Get out of here, your ragamuffin. If not, I'm going to burn your house to the ground foot trick. If not, we're going to find your dog and kill it. Get out of here, ragamuffin.

We can fit through little holes like cats and we'll get in your house and we'll find your dog. I hate a ragamuffin day. But that's like pretty much what was actually happening. So in 1933, damages were so bad. People began calling that year, it's Halloween, Black Halloween. So they started talking about banning Halloween altogether, which I don't know how they would have accomplished that. Maybe like through curfews or something. But that should be a movie where, you know, that's a great movie premise where they tried to ban Halloween, you know, because it's getting too like trickery-ish.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's going to make violent kids not, if they just keep them inside, they're just going to make them matter. Yeah, exactly. So which is what they decide. And actually, they're like, actually, maybe not. Let's instead start organizing trick or treats, costume parades, and haunted houses to keep them busy. So by 1930- Got to put them somewhere. By 1937, there was this party pamphlet that came out to kind of explain to you how to put a haunt together in your neighborhood.

It says, inside the pamphlet, it said, An outside entrance leads to a rendezvous with ghosts and witches in the cellar attic. Hang old firs, strips of raw liver on walls where one feels his way to dark steps. Ooh! Weird moans and howls come from dark corners. Damp sponges and hairnets hung from the ceiling touch his face. At one place, Teige, who is a guard dressed as a dog, suddenly jumps out at him barking and growling. Doorways are blockaded so the guests must crawl through a long, dark tunnel. And at the end, he hears a plaintive meow, and sees a black card.

board cat outlined in luminous paint. No. So, yeah, it basically, this pamphlet gives you all these different, like, setups where you can put the house together. Here's how you help your neighborhood kids from not destroying your entire neighborhood. Give them the gore that they need. And give them knives. You know what I think, like, young boys with knives, I always, like, how else are they

going to learn? How else are they going to feel like a man? Yeah, they did, they had a thing that was like a backlit screen. where fake surgery was performed. So, you know, it's pretty sweet. So then the haunted house, though, didn't really truly become an American icon until a young man by the name of Walter E. Disney. Started to formulate a dream of his, a state-of-the-art haunted attraction.

Like, the world had never seen. It took decades to get it off the ground before its debut in 1969. But it remains to be so important to American culture that it's, Some people's entire identities are the haunted banter. And it really, some of the innovations from that ride have shaped Halloween haunts to this very day. It was like very high, it was like all new technology revelations except for Pepper's Ghost, which is a classic one. So we have many haunt owners and even older generations. Remember having their first spooky attraction experience courtesy of the JCs.

Penny? I wish. Oh. No. I didn't know what that was. So the Wiki article says, the United States Junior Chamber, also known as the JCs,

is a leadership training and civic organization for people between the ages of 18 and 40. It's like, so weird. Adult Boy Scouts? Kind of, I think. But they used to fundraise by putting haunted houses together in abandoned buildings to, yeah, to make money.

And the organizers became so well known for these haunts that two guys who were kind of putting them all together wrote a book and they became the first, haunted house experts in the U.S., and they would, again, they'd make pamphlets. They'd explain to you, like, how to do these things, how to put on masks, how to do makeup, how to do lighting. Yeah, it's interesting.

I would have thought it would have been more, like, organic than this, but that's interesting that, like, immediately there, you know, there's like a textbook for, there's like a manual for this. Well, people ended up loving it so much. They had the J.C.'s haunted houses became so famous at that time. Everybody started going, like, how do we do it? How do we do it? So, of course, you got to make some money.

Got to make a book. Money. Yeah. So, and then we get to, there's a couple other thing, you know, a guy named Edwin Atkins in 1971, claims that he has the first real haunt that was not connected to the JCs called Blood Manor. It was in an abandoned covenant. Yeah. Convent, convent. It was in an abandoned convent, which is pretty sweet.

And then the evangelical Christian group, campus life, became notorious for traumatizing haunts that they would put on. to raise money. Oh, Hell houses. It's not, though. It actually pre-eatts Hellhouses. Yeah. So the first evangelical Christians...

So they've always been doing this. Oh, yeah. They're fucked up. But so they were just apparently very fucked up in a lot of the modern day haunt runners or talk about how these campus life haunted houses were so disturbing that they got them into it. But it was like, it was just evangelical Christian groups making money.

But then. very shortly after we have hellhouses. And those are the ones that, you know, like Jackie said, they take you through all the sins that might land you in hell, usually generally populated by at least one abortion. Because of course. So they would, sometimes like Jackie said, they would hide that it was that.

And it was just, oh, we're going to a haunted house. We don't really know what's going to happen. And then suddenly you're watching these different sins play out. And then a lot of them, would end with a room where you would go to pray with a pastor or minister as he attempted to convert the paying guests to his church. The hell else's may have first appeared in the 70s, but they didn't attract a major attention until a Colorado pastor named Keenan Roberts began selling a Hell House outreach kit.

So again, we have kits that they sell. The optional scenes included things like gay wedding, post-birth abortion. Oh, no. There's one called rave scene. Oh, God. I think I did that one multiple times in college. How do we even make gay wedding? It's like, do you, I do.

Do you, I do. Congratulations, you both have AIDS. Yeah, it's like one of the- Yeah, probably, I bet you there's something with AIDS there because. They were like, we lost Jerry. Yeah, he's still in the gay wedding. Like, there's just people like staying in the gay wedding because it's like super fun. He loves it.

Yeah, no, everyone's having a great time. It's like the end of the bird cage. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, there's that. And then they really like to play into, like, actual, like, traumatic world events. So one that became popular in the early 2000s was a reenactment of the murder of Cassie Bernal who died in Columbine.

She was allegedly, this is not true, but she became a, like a martyr for Christian extremist because she was allegedly asked whether she believed in God answered yes and then was shot. but it did not happen in real life. But now that has taken on its own life and now it's in how else is a lot? There's one that's a man having an argument with his wife and is later seduced by his secretary, which just sounds very saucy. There's one where witches are pressuring a depressed teen

to murder his fellow students, which is cool. And then we have the 9-11 room. Good. You know what I was like, where is 9-11 in all of this? I'm waiting. Yeah. Yeah. So we fast forward through all that.

The first haunted attractions that you would ever find in like a theme park, which is now a huge, huge thing. A huge, what's it called? Enterprise. It's a huge thing. Almost every single theme park has a haunt. Now, Nottsbury Farm was actually the first one. Oh. Which is right by Disneyland, right by L.A. in 1973.

Not Scary Farm was actually. created in 1979. Hell yeah. It got, it's built quite a bit from what it started as, but they were the first one to add an overlay. And, um, then now we get the 80s. We hit a new horror boom. So with the help of franchises like Friday the 13th in Nightmare and Elm Street, kids and young adults are mad, mad, I tell you, for horror-themed experiences. And so all the theme parks start following suit. So in 84, there was a terrible fire at six flags inside the home. haunted castle ride, eight people died. And because of, it was because of lax laws.

So then all of the laws changed for hauntings, like haunted houses and haunt attractions. And then they became, because of that, weirdly, that fire, it became hard to not have one that was huge, wasn't huge because a little small time guy couldn't afford all the, like the fire code stuff. Gotcha. So now we got big old haunts. So yeah. We're just weird guys in houses doing it. Well, it depends on where you're right.

Yeah. Very upsetting results. You can watch American Scream. That's about a home haunt documentary. Then you can watch haunters. There's a lot about McKinney Manor in there. Just wrapping this up. Now there's just so many.

We could do an entire episode on the history of current haunts. Oh, yeah. And how it's gotten to the place that it is? Because like how long? So it really hasn't been too long that haunts have been the way that they are now. Like late 70s, I would say, is when they started getting to this level. But they really, during the Depression, it became an American staple. But yeah, now we have like, just to end this, we got cutting edge haunted house in Texas.

It holds several world records for the largest haunt. Bennett's curse in Baltimore County has been noted for its unique special effects and scariness level. Hell yeah. Netherworld in Atlanta is always at people's top favorites for their theming. And also, it's so big, it includes four escape rooms. then we have that other extreme end, which we talked about McKamey Manor. There's also things like Blackout in New York where you basically are allowed to be touched. They simulate rape.

There's like all kinds of stuff. You have to sign a thing. Right. That one at least, most of them have safe words. McKamey Manor gets a lot of criticism because you sign over yourself. You can't say stop. They did have, he eventually had to change that because of the criticism that he got. And there are now safe words for that.

There are, I didn't, I didn't know there were safe words now. It was a more recent development, but it's so fucked up that there wasn't a safe word for the longest time. And then I think eventually, like, he finally buckled on that. But yeah, if you just want to be freaked out by like a dude and his creepy weird pastime. Definitely look into McCamey Manor or don't. Like, there's something awful about it too. It's just like, if you want to learn about it. But I have been weirdly obsessed with it.

Yeah, I mean, of course, it's fascinating. How can you not? But if you want to watch about him, you can watch Haunters, the doctor. Hunters is good. Yeah. I love all those documentaries, by that. I think I've seen them all. Yeah, I'm down to watch the doc about it, but then why?

Because it really does, like, I just think of the psychology behind the idea of extreme haunts that it's just not something that I am, I'm really behind. I don't really want to sign my life away. I'm all right. No, I think anything that involves signing a form. I think that's where I probably draw my personally. Yeah. No, I have no interest in that shit either.

I think some people, I think some people think, again, like, we're, talking about earlier, I think there's a feeling of like, I can conquer this or I can do something really horrible or like experience something. And put yourself to the extreme. And to put yourself, it's like, because then in your brain it's like, well, then I don't have to be as scared of the worst thing happening to me because it already has. And I see, I understand that from the outside, like far miles away from that thought. Right, right, right. I can see it and understand it. But I'm all right. Yeah, but I do ogle. I have to say. I'm a bystander that augles at extreme haunts. It is, and Hans in general.

Yeah, and that guy did, sorry I'm done, but that guy did, a couple of people did have heart attacks and stuff inside of Cady Manor. Horrifying. He should be probably locked in jail. Probably. He seems like a terrible person. So yeah, Halloween specials. Here's just some stuff. This is Halloween. This is

Halloween. Talking about some you know, specials that I, you know, we love every year or maybe to get you on some good, you know, some good sit-at-home tracks for this Halloween. Sit-at-home and enjoy the spookiness and that inside your house, which I greatly have enjoyed in my life.

First of all, I think the biggest one, and I'm glad it kind of is a companion to our Peanuts Christmas episode. It's the great pumpkin, Charlie Brown. So sad. It always made me so sad, though. And they talk about that, how Schultz said, you know, that was Schultz's thing, though.

Like, the football never gets kicked. The pumpkin never comes. That's always about that. to believe so badly. It was first released in 1966, and Charles M. Schultz did write it himself. It was off the heels of the success of that Christmas special that was kind of a runaway hit, unexpected.

And so, you know, yeah, it's very, very peanutsy. After the episode aired, because in the episode, Charlie Brown gets rocks instead of candy from three different houses, which I always found hilarious. And folks actually mailed in bags and bags, boxes of candy just for Charlie Brown after watching the special. And yeah, of course

Although you can send me some of the candy. If you're like, oh, I feel bad for Charlie Brown, you can send it to me. Yeah, we're taking Charlie Brown candy this year. Absolutely. Always won candy. But yeah, Schultz said about the whole Linus's attempt and failure to see the great pumpkin,

Linus represented a special quality of hope and belief against all odds. And it says that we all need a colorful, generous romantic hero, even if he is only make believe. which also I think maybe spoke towards his atheism. The Simpsons, Trioz of Horror, probably my favorite line of Halloween specials.

They first aired in 1990 in the show's second season. So every season, like season two is Treyhouse of Horror 1, right? So every season. So my favorite Trails of Horror, Trialess of Horror 5 is in season six. I actually watched it not too long ago. The opening one, though, I remember being a kid. I was so hyped for The Simpsons when I was a kid. And I remember how like almost dangerous like the episode felt in terms of, you know,

because Marge comes out says maybe put the kids to bed for this one. That was actually done in earnest the first time she did it. And after that it was kind of a joke. But, you know, they always were a little bit more violent, a little more like, yeah. Super fucked up. Right? That first episode had Bad Dream House, which is a parody of Pulturegeist in Amityville Horror. And that was actually pretty freaky.

Hungry Are the Damned. That's where we first meet Kang and Kodos, which would be in every single Trialse of Horror, the two aliens. Oh, those humans. And, yeah, that was a parody of Twilight Zones to serve man, the episode. And lastly, you had that awesome Edgall and Poe,

the Raven visual poe. That was so good. That would is so good. And now can you watch them? Because the Simpsons are on a what? They're all on Disney Plus, but I think they're also on like Hulu too, but they're all on Disney Plus.

I just usually watch, I was like, because you could like find the YouTube playlist of the Trials of Horror and then I would just play them from the beginning every Halloween

because it'll just move into the next one. It's amazing. My favorite one will probably always be the shining. I was, that's Trials of R5. That is my, that and the Time Machine Toaster

are both in Trials of Horror 5. Oh, look honey, it's raining again. Yeah. And all that's, I wish, I wish I hadn't sat on that fish. That is my favorite. Oh, that one's great.

No beer and no TV makeover. Make Home or something, something. Go crazy? Don't mind if I do! Looking back on that Raven piece, Matt Grinning was actually nervous about it airing, feeling that it, quote,

might be the worst, most pretentious thing they'd ever done. I think it came out amazingly. This is actually the first, it started off as the first, now it's the last episode they always write because the animation and writing is so challenging in those episodes. But either way, I guess next up is stupid Garfield's, stupid Halloween adventure.

are a nightmare person and you are wrong. And you are immediately wrong. That is an actual scary, scary fucking special. It is very scary. It is. It holds the fuck up. It's still creepy, man. Oh, it's still creepy.

Yeah, it was written by Jim Davis himself. I will agree. It is one of the better Halloween special. It's a very good Halloween special. Candy candy candy. And it is still legitimately scary. It is. Yeah, Scarfield and Otis go trigger.

retreating, they discover a haunted mansion and a ghost ship full of dead pirates. Yeah, and then this creepy old man that lives on this island that they go out there with. And of course, Garfield's so excited because he finds out about Halloween. And he's like, oh, my God, there's a night where I can just go out and get free food. Okay. And how do you not love this, Holden? How, I don't know. I kid, I kid.

I have quite enjoyed the Garf, I mean, Garf, I mean, Garf. Garfield's stupid, right, or whatever, but I have enjoyed that Halloween special. It is scary, so man. That part whenever they pull the sheet off the, there's no feet under the sheet, it scares me. And then just like that and like running around,

it's great. But also like the connection between Garfield and Odie and that is really like, he really gives it up to Odie of like, I needed you tonight. Yeah, and thank you for being there. It's true. I think I said Otis too. Odie, sorry.

And then here's some more just like, my favorite. So forget. of me if I'm skipping your favorites, a listener at home, and please let me know, Jackie Natalie, if I'm skipping one.

I really love the Frazier Halloween special in season five. Fraser Niles throw a literary-themed Halloween party, which ends in Niles challenging Fraser to a duel after misunderstanding, a misunderstanding revolving around Roz, Daphne, and a pregnancy scare. One of the more recent ones that I laughed so hard at,

it's always sunny in Philadelphia, who got D pregnant? It is told in flashbacks of this one Halloween party. My favorite moment in it is for most of the episode, what's his name, Danny DeVito's character, Frank, right? Yeah. Is dressed in as Spider-Man. And then when he retells the event, he's like, I wasn't dressed as Spider-Man, I was dressed as Man Spider. And it comes back and he's wearing this just weird, like, spider costume. And it's just so weird. And it's like,

I don't know why I love that joke so much. But anyways, it's a great episode, especially because it's like, I love those kinds of TV sitcom episodes where they like retell the same event over and over again. They do it so well in this one though. Like it's, and D slowly turns into a bird through the whole episode too, becomes more bird-like until she's just full on a bird.

I love it. It's so funny. I love like a specific Halloween episode that stands out and I forgot to talk to you about this because I wasn't even thinking about, I was thinking about like Halloween specials. Right. But the Bob's Burger,

episode when because Louise is like I don't get scared at anything there's no way you guys can scare me so they set up like a haunted house to genuinely scare Louise and they do it it's a great it's called the hauntinging and I mean I already loves I love like especially but I think Bobster burgers obviously amazing Thanksgiving episodes yeah their their Halloween episodes are always really up there can I throw in too quickly uh as far as every year the sitcom Roseanne has like the best Halloween episodes that shows one of the best of all time regardless of what's happened now but like even like on their Halloween episodes they would do stuff like their son DJ one year wanted to dress up like a witch and it was way before

anybody was having any discussion about gender norms and it was like talking about how his dad became really uncomfortable with the idea of it and they were trying to remember that's a really good episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But all their Halloween episodes are like they do balls to the wall style ones and they're great to watch. Another show that does a lot of Halloween episodes but have some specific good ones, The Office. Oh, yeah.

Season 2's Halloween. Michael Scott has the end of the day to fire somebody. Of course, he's fucking terrible at it. And also the costume contest episode is another big one for the office, which has several. One of my favorites that speaks towards

a very specific thing that I was saving until this part of the episode. Freaks and Geeks, tricks and treats. Oh, yeah. The reason why I love it so much is because it speaks towards a very sad, melancholic, kind of almost like changing of the guard.

Halloween you have when you're, it's the last Halloween you go trick or treating. Yeah. And that feeling of like, I'm too old for this. Totally. And like things are getting more real now. And yeah, it does. But I love that that episode hits that

because no other shows really mess with that concept. And that is such a, year transition time. Yeah. For sure that I struggled with. And to close out on the Halloween specials, Mark Summers' mystery magical tour. Yeah, I got it. Got it in there.

Got it in there. This is a Natalie request originally produced in 1988. The special was designed to show off the talents of stage magicians, Lance Burton and Tina Lenert, and was hosted by Mark Summers, who was a huge deal at the time as host of Double Dare on Nickelodeon. And the whole filming takes place in the Magic Castle in Los Angeles. Really cool. Yeah, it was a Nickelodeon.

special that I've talked about randomly a lot on this show. And nobody remembers it. And it was awesome because it was just like, I didn't know what the Magic Castle was, but it was just this sane mansion that I desperately wanted to go to. The whole thing is on YouTube. And I did eventually. Yeah.

The whole thing is on YouTube. And I mean, at the end of the day, even though it's like a kid show, Halloween special, like magic tricks and stuff. So it's very, holds up hard. I'll say that. And then this is actually, I just also pulled a really quick list of best not scary Halloween movies.

I just cold some of these because you know what? We're all lovers of horror here, but maybe some of the listeners. I know so many people are always looking for those movies that are great to watch during Halloween that's not going to actually keep you up at night. So here we go. If you want some wrecks, young Frankenstein,

nightmare before Christmas, hocus pocus. Got to love it. Of course. Death becomes her. Great one. Beetlejuice. Ghostbusters. We've covered the Rocky Horror Picture Show on this program.

Oh, yeah. Sean of the Dead is a great one for comedy on zombie films. The Adams family is the perfect, not scary, spooky, fun, horror kind of thing. Little Shop of Horrors. And you know what? I watched the last year for our episode on Adam Sandler, or earlier this year, rather,

Huey Halloween on Netflix is pretty dang fun if you just want a dumb, stupid comedy about Halloween featuring all those guys for sure. You can do no wrong there. It is a good time. Another Tim Burton one, because there's like several on this list, is Sleepy Hollow. Yes, Sleepy Hollow for sure.

sure. I need to check that. I don't think I've actually watched that if I did. It was forever ago. But anyways, yeah, that's my segment on Halloween specials, and that's our episode on Halloween. We hope you've enjoyed it. And we hope you've enjoyed all of the stuff we put out on pop history. We also want to take this time to say, I think with my bebe that is coming to my life and some lifey things going on, we will be taking an indefinite hiatus from pop history. We hope to at some point return. Not sure where, not sure when, but we wanted to just get it out there. We will be taking a break. And we really appreciate your support. And we hope you've enjoyed the episodes thus far. And if you want us to come back, you got to scream about it. You got to

yell about it to the heavens. We'll hear your screams. We'll hear your screams. Because I still want to do a Taylor Swift episode. A person. So many. So many. So many. So many. Charlie XX, Duelipa. There's a lot of like pop stars we haven't covered yet. A lot of great stories out there. We of course have caused the Britney Spears conservatorship to end. You're welcome. Cheers. So thank you everybody for joining us again.

Patreon.com forward slash page 7 podcast is where you can support us further. Also, uh, Holdenators Ho on Twitch. Twitch.com.Tvv.com. So I do a stream with Jackie every Friday called Jackin. And I know Natalie's, uh, I know Natalie's, uh, I'm getting wanting to itching to get more into the streaming time. Oh yeah. She'll make an appearance on my stream soon here as well,

which would be a lot of fun. But that's where you can find me. What about you two, female women? Whoa. Wow. You can follow me at the Natty Jean, and I do a podcast with Amber Nelson called Some Place Underneath.

That is about missing women, so not quite as whimsical. I'm sure there's whimsy in there. And my name is Jackie Zbrowski. You follow me on Instagram at Jack That Worm and come check out. We are going to be continuing

to do some Learn Together series both Natalie and myself with our friend McKenzie and that you can find us on Twitch.tv forward slash oh no, it's Jackie.

Yeah. Where we learn and we cry and we laugh and we drink. Also we drink, yes. Yes, and we all get to drink. That's good. At least get hammered then by the end you're just like,

but fuck. I was going to cry regardless. So whatever. I hope you guys have a spooky season. Stay safe. Be careful with, there's just so many other, a lot of big things to be scared about as well.

So be careful out there. Jesus. That's what we're going to do. But mostly, mostly razors and candy. Yes. I'm always scared about that. But you know what?

I could always use some extra razors. I'm at that point in my life. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the free razors, asshole. Jokes on you. We love you guys. Everybody. Happy Halloween.

Bye. Take care. everyone. Bye. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.