Page 7 - Pop History: Mariah Carey Pt. II

Episode Date: December 17, 2019

We continue our deep dive into the story of the Queen Diva of Christmas herself, Mariah Carey.    See LPN's favorite divas this January in Chicago, Pontiac and Milwaukee! Get your tickets for Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser LIVE!  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We, we're doing part two, guys. We are rolling into part two of Mariah Carey. And this is where it gets interesting. This is what I'm here for. Jackie, I am broken. Natalie, I am, I cannot put any more of her into me. Oh, boy. This has been a wild ride, but this is also needs, this ride needs to end.

And we need to leave the amusement park. I'm starting to make people around me concerned because she's all I can think about. And like you had just made that joke, I feel like I'm living in her head. That I am Mariah Carey, and I want to start looking at people, I'm like, I don't want to pick it up.

Darling, you do it for me. Because in my head, she speaks like Catherine Hepper now as opposed to the way that I used to think that you talk like this. But now I realize that the ultimate diva is the diva that doesn't think that she's a diva and yet will make a whole hotel full of workers wake up at 3 o'clock in the morning

to put out specific rug and two feet tall white pillar candles lit while she walks into a hotel. What would happen if they didn't do it? She won't go in? Do you think she would just evaporate like Voldemort at the end? Or like the Wicked Witch of the West

or like don't drop a house on her? So last week, I feel like we really focus on how inspirational Mariah Carey is and was. It was the rise. It was the rise of Mariah. And this is the dark. This is like the Empire Strikes Back. This is what I'm here for. It is nuts, man.

She is, I mean, she is severely mentally ill. And I, last week I think I felt bad for making jokes about her my entire. life and now this week goes like oh that's why we make jokes about her because it's so ludicrously over the top that you have to laugh about it or else you wouldn't listen to her music not that anybody does anymore is part of the problem wow wow but it's also a redemption tale as well there's this is really i did just make an analogy uh to a roller coaster ride but this really is a roller coaster ride. There are so many ups and fucking downs.

I couldn't imagine being this prolific in my career, period. I couldn't imagine doing as much as she has done even up to this point, just full stop. And then also to see her like just completely fail, so ass hard. And then totally bring it back like over and over again. She just, she's a train that will not stop. she will keep going Glitter We're talking

You know New Year's Eve 2016 But we're also talking You know The Emancipation Of Mimi Mimi

The emancipation of Mimi With the he who must not be named Yes another Voldemort reference E equals MC squared Which is what I will only refer to it It is the album That shall not be named again Did you listen to me?

I listen to it I don't know I was like all right This is another one See I also really love Mariah Carey and I will, I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there. I had never listened to it before, which, number one, that says something. And I'm not saying it is bad. It's not a bad album. But for her and for her standards and what she does, it is not nearly as

good as her other albums. So far, you guys have only mentioned her professional, what would you call them? Failure. But she's had quite a few personal. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to get all into that. One more divorce, one more broken engagement for you guys. But also one more marriage. Hey, don't just focus on the negative. It was a marriage and then a divorce. Oh, please.

Nick Cannon, come on. This poor man. I feel like we have to do a pop history in Nick Cannon because the poor boy. I always just thought that he was another one that I was like, oh, well, this is a little joker boy over here. What, oh my God, all he did was lover. and he was wrong for loving her. Yeah.

I just want him to be safe. I really do. And he will forever just hold a torch to her. And I guess how could you not? You got to let that girl go, Nick. She's butterfly. She's going to fly away. She's going to fly away.

But that's why we got to, I mean, we may as well just jump into Rainbow because we're starting off this week's episode with Rainbow in 1999. Yeah. So at this point, she has, divorced Tommy Motola. Get out of here, Tommy Motola.

Yeah. But he is still partly in a way her owner because he is the CEO of Columbia records. And a lot of the reason why they are at odds and why they got divorced was because of the way he was trying to control her sound, make it more of a pop thing. And she was trying to go into more of a hip hop angle and just in a more genre bending in every way angle. And that sets the stage for where we're at. Yes, so this is her springboard. She's springboarding off and thinks that this is the complete real rise of Mariah Carey. This is her butterfly situation.

Now she said she called Rainbow the album. She said, I was going into the studio in L.A., and there were two really clear rainbows, one on top of the other. I'd never seen that. And I was just having this really stressful day, which is standard for me, she said. But it was kind of indicative of my whole struggle, which is why there's a light at the end of the tunnel, which hopefully is not a fright train. A freight train? Freight train?

Freight train. Freight train. I like freight train. I don't think I've ever said the phrase fright train aloud before. Freight train? I think it's freight train, but I like freight train better. Fright train. It's a ghost train.

So at this time, the light of the tunnel for her is getting the fuck off of Columbia records because she has one more album she has to make and then she never has to deal with ex-husband ever again. That's what she thinks. So she's, at that time, at this time, she's taken a lover named Louis Miguel. Yeah, I looked him up and yeah, I'd lick it. Oh, he's like, he's a real rebounder. Oh, yeah.

And she decides to record her album on the island of Capri, Italy, so that she could be in seclusion. She could fucking fuck her dude, right? Or whatever. Yeah, man. Good for her. Yeah, good for her. And complete this. album with total focus so that she can get it done as quickly as possible. And so she gets it done

in three months time. And it comes out in the summer of 99. She said, I made it in three months. I was like, get me off this label. I couldn't take it. The situation there was becoming increasingly difficult. For this album, she's going like full hip hop in a lot of ways. She's working with Jay-Z, Usher, Snoop Dog, Missy Elliott, and Germain of Dupree, of course. And yeah, and let's get, is this Is it time to get into her situation with her sister? I guess we can start. We can start pawn the relationship she has with her older sister. Super sad times.

Yeah, it's a little super sad. Immediately sad. I think that it's just something that we have to touch on because her family is important to discuss and how they affected her. Now, Mariah Carey's older sister. So why did you want to bring this up, Holder? Well, she writes a song on the album that is called Pedals, and it's about her ordeal.

And this really does mark the first time where Carrie on her actual music is really expressing things that are going on in her personal life and not just, you know, going more for like lover boy pop cuts. You know what I mean? You know what I mean essentially? Something that it's actually really personal for her. Yeah. So, okay. So during this album, she has a falling out with her sister. Her sister has a lot of mental health issues.

She's diagnosed as HIV positive. She's had her children taken away. And it's, you know, I think did you look into it more, Chad? Oh, yeah. So her older sister, Alison Carey, I think that we've all seen her in the tabloids many times. And her older sister was a, it was and is a sex worker that has been in and out of rehab with a lot of stealing problems, drug issues. And Mariah Carey for a very long time has paid for her to go in and out of said rehabs. She has four children that she does not care for.

And Raya Carey has, I think, done a lot for the kids as well. She's done a lot for the kids. But the problem is, which I had only ever heard about. And I've said this on page seven before. I was like, oh, she's got all this money. Why isn't she helping her sister? But you also watch, if you guys have ever, and I know that you both do, have people in the family that struggle with drug addiction, it's, there are times in your life when you have to let them go.

You can't force someone to get help. And so this woman, what she's doing, is going to the son, is going to every tabloid and selling her pity story to them about how Mariah Carey won't help her. My sister has all this money. I have nothing. All of my teeth have fallen out and no one cares about me. I just found out one of my sons is getting married this year. You don't understand what it's like to be to have no one. But the thing is that after an entire lifetime of doing this to your family, there is a time.

time often that they stop. Yeah. And also, if you do really care about that person, sometimes you do have to let them fall really hard because there's a certain level of help you can provide, but that you are eventually if they won't help themselves, they're kind of enabling their behavior. Right. When you just keep feeding their problem and not really giving them the chance to thrive on the road.

And she hasn't. So it does make her look to me. makes her look even worse that she's going and telling these sob stories because she's just going, everybody needs to help me. Why isn't anybody helping me? And it's like, well, I mean, I'm sure your life is, like, they're, I'm sure terrible things happen to you, but you got to eventually take accountability. And I also, on a side note, I found it really interesting that when they were kids, after their parents were divorced, Mariah Carey went with her mother and then I think her father took her siblings. Correct. Yes. Which is a really,

that's a tough situation to have where you have to decide which kids are going to live with which parent and it does seem as though they had very different upbringings yes they did their lives were very they were removed from one another and who knows what the dad was like but how do you decide like it's like the fucking parent trap like your kids are just going to live with one how do you do that choose of which a life unfortunately that they are going to be living they don't know what it's going to be like, and that's why actually Mariah Carey doesn't like to talk about this very much. She said in a 1998 interview on 2020, one of her very rare comments about her sister, she said it was a very difficult thing to see. But I think what it did for me was provide for me an inner

strength and something I knew that I didn't want to be. That's why I'll never be a promiscuous person. I'll never be on drugs. I'll never be too out of it to know what I'm doing or getting myself into. And because I saw all these things growing up, I went the other way. Is she not on drugs? I think that she's, I think really, which what we're going to get to is I think it's just severe bipolar disorder. Yeah, we will definitely talk about that. I think she drinks a lot. I know she drinks a lot.

I thought there's maybe a pill issue. I think that I've, possibly, but I know that she's definitely struggled with what medications she is taking for her bipolar disorder. Which we've all done. We've all had problems with our medication. Oh, I cried for two years and didn't have any sex because, you know, I thought I was going to sew my pussy shut, but that was just the medication talking. And then you didn't. Good job, Jackie. Thank you.

So, like, we have this issue going on with her sister. Also, big drama with this label. She, uh, they, when they put out her, her quote, quote, quote, greatest hits, it was called number ones. It can, it contain all of, like, her number one hits. She was trying to put a greatest hits album out at the time that had, uh, some other songs that she really wanted to be on that album that she really loved. So they're just controlling that.

also with Rainbow, and this is a constant issue that she has with the record executives. But yeah, Studio wants to release, can't take that away. Mariah's theme as the third single, or she wants to release it, rather, but the studio refuses. She's writing messages on our web page about Sony, about how she wants to put the song out and all these kind of cryptic things. She's like communicating in this weird way through her website. And there's all this, all, like, and I think for the first time is starting to show some of the cracks happening around everything. Rainbow ends up being the lowest selling album up to that point

in her career. And now she moves on signing a $100 million five album contract with Virgin Records America in April of 2001. The same year, she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but we'll get there. But she hides all of that for a while. Were there any big hits on Rainbow? Yeah, Rainbow had, what did it have? Rainbow had Rainbow. I mean, Heartbreaker, doesn't it? Yeah, that's Heartbreaker. And I also, I knew Can't Take That Away, because it is a great song.

Yeah, yeah. And it's one of, apparently, it's also one of Mariah Carey's favorite songs. And I had to actually look that up as well because I didn't really understand, I don't understand the music industry. And that Mariah Carey essentially wanted, can't take that away, which is what she referred to as Mariah's song, on the single that is sent. two radio stations that like what is going to be played on the radio because I was trying to understand.

I said Sony insisted on releasing it as a double A side with Crybaby on the front. I still don't exactly get what a double A side is. I feel like that might be an outdated term because I kept looking at it up and they're like it's like a B side, but it's not a B side. But it kind of is. It's like both songs are a hit hot single. Yeah. Both songs are as important as the others, so there's no B-side.

But it wasn't what she wanted. Yeah, and I think that, I don't know if they still use those terms, but that seems like it was back when they actually sent a tangible tape right to the station. So she wants to make a film and a soundtrack that she was originally working on back in 1997, but she had to shelved due to Columbia's pressure, which was called All That Glitters. And she wanted it to be a mix of 1980s influenced disco and similar genres. And this is around the time that she's doing all of this under this crazy, crazy money deal that she made with Virgin Records America, that she ends up writing, again, messages on her website saying, saying, I'm feeling overworked, I'm starting to get exhausted. I'm having this awful time trying to sleep.

Her three-year relationship with Luis Miguel ended. Oh, three years. And she said, I was with people who didn't really know me, and I had no personal assistant. I do interviews all day long and get two hours of sleep a night, if that. Yeah. And with all of that going on during this time, and Jaggi, I think you dug more into this, but Matola, and like a classic Matola Dick move over at Columbia, they give a bunch of songs that she wrote to Jennifer Lopez to perform.

So this is while she was writing glitter and working on glitter. So this is where the I don't know her gif, gif, gif, I'll never read. I refuse to ever remember. That's where all of this comes from. So essentially, Mariah Carey is writing this album. Tommy Mokola comes in, gives parts of the songs and samples from the songs to Jennifer Lopez as she's recording.

So when Mariah was surprised to hear a sample she'd bagged for her then unreleased song, Lover Boy, pop up on Lopez's hit single, I'm Real. Record executive Irv Gotti admits that Tommy Motola carries ex-husband and the head of Sony Music instructed him to make a record for Jennifer Lopez that sounded exactly like one Goddy's company had made with Carrie for her movie Glitter.

Even though glitter was not finished and Lopez would beat Carrie to the punch and undermine a project she was recording for Sony. So the whole I Don't Know Her and why they don't like each other is because Mariah Carey thought that JLo knew what they were doing. And so when she said, I don't know her in the early 2000s is because she said it's better to say nothing than to say something bad about a person.

So she pretends to not know her instead. And it's used that way to this day. Yeah, it really is that she just decided she does not exist, which, I mean, you know, if that's that diva shade, I don't know what is. So then we have the classic Total Request live appearance on July 19th, hosted by Carson Daly

where she shows up with ice cream and hands it to fans and she does like a quote unquote strip tease where she like takes her shirt off. Do you guys remember this? I remember seeing this TRO. I remember this too. I fucking hated Carson Daly. I mean I do hate Carson Daly and he is very bad at improvving when he doesn't realize

that Mariah Carey's about to show up wearing basically nothing with ice cream. Well this is the thing though. I rewatch that and as much as everyone's like oh my God it was she was crazy it was insane what happened. It didn't really seem that bad to me. She just seemed a little loopy, I guess.

She looked like, but it seemed like she was completely not in control of what she was doing. And I think it's more as seeing as I've not only gone through specific breaks mentally in my time, but also have watched people go through mental breaks. It is it, it's a disassociation you see in her eyes that I never, I didn't see when I was, what, 12 when this happened? You know, but watching it now as an adult, it's just like, she can, she's like not all there. Right.

And she's trying to string her words together. And actually, she was, so I know holding her about to say that she was hospitalized, but what I didn't realize is that it's because her mom found her in a hotel room bleeding because she had cuts all over her. Oh, my God. And her publicist Cindy Berger said the star had experienced an emotional and physical breakdown, but denied tabloid claims she'd tried to take her own life. She did break some dishes and glasses,

and she may have stepped on them, admitted Berger. Oh, Jesus, that's almost scarier. It's a cry for help for sure. It's complete, it is all, but you also have to think where she, like before when old were just saying, where it's like she didn't have a personal assistant, she felt like she didn't have anyone to turn to,

and so these are all cries for help. Yeah, totally. I can't, it's still not great today, but back then, being at that level of fame and not having any sort of counseling or anybody to talk to you about just pressures of being a famous person

must have been a nightmare. It must have been so awful. Yeah, and she was already put into a box of living a life that she didn't exactly want to be living, but she was getting her dream and she was able to make music. So she just kept going. And I feel like that is something that at least

we're starting to change that narrative of shut your mouth and take it. Aren't you getting paid for what you want to get paid for? Like, no, you don't have to be abused. Yeah, especially for her who is this perfectionist, who's trying to give off this vibe of like, I am just this amazing, you know, perfect pop thing. You can see it, and we were talking about it before we were recording,

but what, like, we watched Glitter, and watching Glitter, you know, there's a lot of things to take away from it, and we'll get more into that in just a second. But one of the big things I felt I noticed was that, like, the tension in her face is so visible, like, so obvious to me, like, knowing what I know now, the way she holds herself in those scenes, you can tell there's so much shit going on that she is trying to push deep down inside to get, to get through the working day. I mean, down to the fact that, like, I think that really probably all started with glitter

where she likes to have her own lighting crew on most everything that she works on because she needs to be lit in a very specific way, which Natalie and I saw last year when we watched a Christmas melody? Is that what it was called? Close enough. The one with Lacey Chabair on Hallmark where it seemed like she was in a different room than everybody else when that would cut to her close-up. She looked like an angel in every scene and everyone else looks so dark. I think she was in a different room. I don't think that she was there very frequently on the set. I don't think so. So a couple days after the TRL incident, she posts on her website, I'm trying to understand things in life right now and so I really don't feel

that I should be doing music right now. What I'd like to do is just take a break or at least get one night of sleep without someone popping up about a video. All I really want is to just be me and that's what I should have done in the first place. I don't say this much but guess what? I don't take care of myself.

These messages were promptly removed from the site so again it frustrates me that she's trying to fucking reach out to at least her fan base who would be the only people would understand or be able to maybe help. or try and help. And the execs are just scrubbing it, scrubbing it, scrubbing it. Sweep it away.

Yeah. So gross. Just having only two hours of sleep at night will make you an insane person. Yes. That sounds like, I mean, I couldn't do it. I'd just be like, ah, ah, you get. I would die. Yeah.

There's no way. There's no way. She's reaching out. During the Rainbow Tour, she referred to her fans as butterflies, but this was around the time that she started calling them the Lambly. She refers to her fans as lambs. So while she is reaching out, all these people, this is her lambly that she's trying to reach for. The term originated as a term of endearment she used.

The term lamb to her would refer to the fans as, quote, following the leader, which would be Mariah herself. Hayters or fake lambs of Mariahs are called goats. Not fams? No, they're called goats. and they're played off as a joke to the lambs for untrue and hater lambs who do not support Mariah or who criticize Mariah

for her actions or music. So she... The look on Jackie's eyes right now. We have been so deep. First of all, I didn't have any of that in my notes and I've done hours of research. You didn't notice why she kept saying Lamley? I was like, what is Lambly?

What is a lamely? What is this? Oh, like family. Yes, like family, but the word lamb. Okay. Look like. Jackie, you look like Charlie and it's always sunny in the mailroom when he's like having the crazy conspiracy theory. I can't stop thinking about her. So, so her, she goes into the hospital and all that and she's there for a couple of weeks.

And there's also this extended absence from the public. And all of these things amount to delaying the album, a soundtrack to glitter, to the day, September 11th, 2001. Oh, no. Oh, this is the darkest point. This is the darkest tip of the spear right here. So the album comes out on 9-11. There is a picture, like, it's even on the Wikipedia page for glitter.

There's like classically a photo of the towers on fire with an advertisement of glitter in the foreground. It is, and P.S., this is a movie where, all right, let's get into glitter. Jackie, Natalie, let's get into glitter. I'm fascinated now by this movie, so I watched it last night and finished it up this morning. Mariah Carey stars as Billy Frank, a young aspiring singer who desires to leave her troubled life behind to pursue a music career. The journey to the top for young Billy is a difficult one as she falls in love with a DJ who also becomes her producer. What? Where have we heard that story before?

It is so, by the way, this is beat for beat, a star is born, first of all. Second of all, this is a movie that came out right around September 11th. I think the movie itself came out like a week after, but it doesn't matter. And it's horribly panned. And it's set in New York City. And it is just very much a movie that comes off, especially in the wake of 9-11, as, feel bad for the rich, talented pretty girl. It could not have come out at a worst time.

I don't think it would have been a success if it hadn't, if it hadn't, if it had come out at a different, you know, on an earlier date, but it definitely would have done better. But man, it's just a horrible timing. Why wouldn't they push the date? They should have pushed it. They, well, they had pushed it because she was in the, but at that time, I mean, it's already coming out. You can't really stop it, right?

Yeah, you can stop it. I mean, you would just, especially, I mean, when that shit was happening, everything stopped. For that entire week, there was only news happening. There weren't shows. People canceled comedy. Like nothing was happening. So I think they could have definitely pushed the date. I imagine nothing stops Mariah though.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's what happened. As she said, no, we are doing this. Well, and she even talked about how like her deal with Virgin was really, you know, she felt in hindsight it was all about the money that she was just making really bad decisions right around this time, probably because she was on two hours to sleep a night.

And just doing a lot. of things that were not well thought through. I mean, at the end of the day, it's not a well-made movie, period, right? Like, it's just- It's not that long and yet still it slugs. Yeah, it's a weird, man, it's so weird. And it's also, like, it's one of those things where, and this is the beginning, this is what I love. This is the turning point for Mariah Carey, where this is the final act of her trying to

come off as a perfect person. And even in the movie, like, her biggest flaw, it's kind of like in a job and interview when someone's like, what's your biggest flaw? It's like, oh, I'm a perfectionist. Yeah. Like, in the movie, her biggest flaw is that, like, she's too good to her man. You know what I mean? Like, she's so...

I just give too much. Yeah. She's too good of a person. She's too well-rounded, is the problem. And again, it is just horrible... All right, that's already, like, kind of a fallacy, like, in terms of getting over to, you know, an audience, right? Like, yeah, the way that she comes across.

But then in the wake of 9-11, being like, oh, I'm just this like girl about the world who just immediately gets like a giant record contract and just... No one was into that at that time. Also, the whole album is like 80s inspired, like we said before, which again was like, which actually is a nod to her. Kudos to her. She was way ahead of the game on that because of course all of those sounds would become super popular. But like it took another decade because, you know, she even said like, well, the 80s just happened. So I think people just weren't ready for it.

She said it was too soon. That was her biggest issue with glitter. She said it was too soon for her to have had glitter, which is why I think part of the reason when you said she was right before all of that 80s nostalgia, not to jump ahead here, but I feel like now is the time to touch on it of the fact of hashtag justice for glitter. Yes. Which happened last year. Good.

Good, good, good, good. Some of Mariah's most loyal fans, excuse me, lambs, they bumped the glitter soundtrack to number one on iTunes, beating both the soundtrack for a Star is Born and Bohemian Rhapsody. Wow, I didn't know that tidbit. That's incredible. And it was all a social campaign of hashtag justice for glitter to try and get people to recognize how amazing the album glitter is.

and in an interview the interviewer asked her are you surprised by Glitter's cult status she said I like the soundtrack to Glitter but I avoided it for years because it represented a time in my life

when they almost killed me and he said what almost killed you said I was leaving Sony I was fighting every day with my ex-husband who still ran the label and then I was on a new label we released Glitter

on September 11th 2001 and it was a really bad time we've had ups and downs and what I love is that the interviewer asked what does failure teach you. She says, you know what? If failure means that the biggest selling single of 2001,

which was lover boy from glitter, and he said it was the biggest selling single from 2001, she goes, mm-hmm, I'm not mad at it. It represents a moment. It took me a long time to embrace it, but I'm fine with it. And then he asked, but what does perceived failure in the public I feel like? Is it humbling? Do you want to hide under the covers? She said, definitely hide under the covers. I'm already humble. I was an easy target. The movie was horrible, but there were other people with worse movies that nobody made a big deal about. And I don't think people were ready for an 80s throwback. I was just a little bit ahead of the curve with that.

I'm not a person who thinks I'm better than anybody or greater or holier than now. It's not any of that. It's just that when you have to be like, okay, well, this didn't work. How do I prove myself after that? I think that her biggest problem is that she's too humble. Too humble. Too humble. Again, this was one of those things

where like you were saying with glitter where she's like, I'm just too perfect. It's like, no, I was before my time. I'm just so humble, so it's like I'm used to being knocked down. You are being a martyr, you're like, that's... But you know what? It gets her through the day and it makes her her. Do you know how hard it was for her

to have a movie out when all those people were dying everywhere? It was hard for her, and no one's thinking about that. Yeah, nobody ever brings that up. So tragically, Mariah Carey's record deal was bought out for $50 million. She flees to Capri, Italy, tragically, for five months, where she starts writing material for her new album based on the roller coaster ride that was 2001. This is, I think, me writing this. Later signing a contract with Island Records for over $24 million.

So at that point is $74 million and lost... I don't understand what record deal bought out for $50 million actually means. Did she pay them 50 million? No, she gets paid $50 million, right? So that it's like, every turn, I will say this. Girl knows what she's fucking doing. So she got $100 million and then $50 million and then $24 million all the span of a fucking year? I, she's a billionaire.

She is a billionaire. So this day. I think that that is great. And it's very healthy and is helping her. Maybe not healthy. Maybe healthy. is in the word, but... So she signs a contract with Island Records, as I said, and she launches her own label

Monarch Entertainment. That same year, though, her father dies of cancer, which really rocks her. They did not have a very close relationship. And I think that that actually affected her even more, that they never really did have a great connection, made her realize, like, some stuff up in her, right? Wow. Holden, have you been going to therapy for a long time? Yeah.

I really, you know what I mean? I kind of understand what it's like. It made the grumble. Yeah. The memory nuts loose in there. Yeah. All the dark clouds. Start raining on the inside.

She said, I had worked myself very, very hard for many years and I never took a break. And last year, I had just become very, very exhausted. Ended up just not really in a good place physically and emotionally. I learned a little more about how to work hard, but also how to be healthy and take care of myself. And now, in general, my life, I'm in a really good, happy place. She starts out, the album starts out with the song, and this is charm bracelet, I should say. Charm bracelet, one word. Yeah, very important.

Yeah, very bizarre that is one word. Starts out with the song through the rain, which addresses these personal struggles, and it's a bit of a reach out to her fan. She said, I've always tried to insert positivity into my songs wherever I can to inspire other people who go through stuff. I mean, the stuff they talked about in tabloids and the things that were so overly exaggerated, that's one aspect. I also went through a lot of personal stuff, a lot of family stuff. this year. Losing a parent is an intense thing for anybody. It's brought me to another place. People are going to read into it as, this is Mariah and her struggle. But the way I try to word it is, it's okay once you say I can make it through the rain. Not just me going, I can make it through the rain.

It's me telling people that if you believe you can get through whatever, you're going through. You can get to the other side. Yeah, I know. I remember when Barry Manila wrote the song, I made it through the rain. Yeah, I got it. Wow. Are we shady? This is the shady part of that episode. This is her darkest part and you guys are shading her. I know. I know. I know.

It's hard. It's hard to not look at some of it. Especially when you read, especially while reading all the stuff that we get into of just, I understand that mental illness is an illness. And it is your responsibility to take care of these things. And right now she's not taking care of it. Right. And this really is, I do, I do appreciate that this is the album where she actually,

besides pedals on her, on, on. on Rainbow. This is the album where she's actually starting to truly open up about the things that are going on in her life through her music to make it more honest, to make it more real. And no, this album is not a big hit, but this album is a massive turning point in her career leading up to the emancipation of Mimi, where she begins to understand who she is. It's clear that she's getting help at this point. She's starting to understand who she is as a person. And with the next album, she's able to, I think, make light of it and make fun of herself and be self-deprecating and not so just like trying to be perfect all the time.

Randy Jackson, who worked on a few tracks of the album, said, of Charm bracelet. It's the most real and honest record she's made. She didn't care what anyone thought of the lyrics. They were only important to her. The title Charm Braclet was picked because the charms signified the piece. Chambreslet. Please say it, bro. Chambreslet.

Chamblislet. Chimblislet. Trislet because the charms signify pieces of yourself. that you pass on to others in the form of a song. So again, it's like her trying to reach out to her fans and give them a little bit more of the reality of who she is, including the song Sunflowers for Alfred Roy, which was about her father and his side of the family.

She only sang it once in the studio, and that's it. That's how, like, hard of that one was to get through. This is also the same year that that quintessential MTV Cribs episode came. I do remember that so hard? Dude, I forgot all about that. That's the one where she's in the bathtub, right? Yes. She changes outfits 15 times

while showing off her massive and stunning New York apartment, complete with fish tank and a full room serving as a closet. But the best moment was the bathroom tour. And I was like, we get it. You want to fuck you. Because she's in the towel. And I remember because I think that she said something

about, like, my diamonds need a bath. And so while in the towel, she climbs into the full hot tub. And this is also the same episode that she did the stair master in stilettos because she, quote, can't wear flats, her feet repel them. Oh, man, I miss MTV Cribs.

I loved MTV Cribs. Me too. Loved it, loved it, loved it. My favorite, of course, is the Red Man episode because he just lives in like a very normal house. He just keeps going around in every room. It's like completely a normal house that anyone could afford.

He's like, save my money. I saved my fucking money. It's smart. It's just like a play. It's just like that's the PlayStation. It's like a little kid on the ground playing a PlayStation. It's like shitty living room. It's like it's a game room. This is where we play. It's like a shitty normal TV and stuff. He's just like, that's right. I saved my money. Which is smart. And so this is around the time of all of this. So we are watching and she's getting help, but she still is not quite all the way there. Obviously. This is, I mean, as someone's mental illness, we all know.

It is a life struggle. So this is, she takes about a two-year break before emancipation of Mimi. Tragically, with her last two albums, only one song got into the top 40. It is a, it is a biz, this is just the darkest time, timeline for her at this point. Her tour was relatively small when it came to the U.S., though she was still able to pull arenas and other spots worldwide. Smaller, she was playing not arenas in the U.S. again tragically. And she's in need of a total reboot, in need of a total revitalization.

She pulls in Germain Dupree, among other producers, including Kanye West, to make this, like, big comeback album. Dupree said, I actually told her we had to get back to straight singing. I told her she needed to really sing as opposed to whispering, because she had a style where she was whispering on a lot of records. By the way, side note, you can hear that starting with butterfly. I don't think we really talked about this, but she started like whispered, starting with the album Butterfly.

It became this weird, she just took a weird transition into this breathy. I wonder if it has something to do with the whole, like last episode when we were talking about her whistle register, and she said that she would work on it through whisper singing. So I wonder if that is why she did it in her brain because she was of an elite class that only she could do it properly. Yeah, like she considered that a challenging thing to do.

Right. So I wonder if that has something. Maybe. Depree said her full voice, that's what people fell in love with, and that's what I wanted to make sure was different with these songs. And Mariah Carey said, with charm bracelet, everybody wanted to hear the stories of my trials and tribulations. It was a healing experience, expressing things that had gone on and my father had just passed away. Now I'm like, okay, we've done that. This record is about having some fun. And that is totally what the emancipation of Mimi is. Well, then she said under Tommy Motola's rule that she would never have been able to say a line like, them chickens is ass. and I'm lotioned. So she was excited to be able to bring more of a sharp and witty attitude to this album, which I love. It's a great album. Yeah, and it is a true comeback album for her.

It's got such a great energy to it. And it is the first time Mariah Carey is embracing her divadem. She's embracing the drama, the stories, all the ridiculous over-the-top stuff that gets said about her. And that is why they used the name Mimi on the title of the album. There was an Island Records executive who said he gave her the idea for that to use Mimi because that was what her close friends referred to her as. He said, I feel your spirit on this record. You should use the name in the title because that's the fun side of you that people don't get to see.

The side that you can laugh at the diva jokes, laugh at the breakdown jokes, laugh at whatever they want to say about you and just live life and enjoy it. Honey. Enjoy it, girl, which is why I love that the single from his album, We Belonged Together, which is a great song, that in the video that she shot with Brett Ratner, she wanted to wear the wedding dress she wore when she married Tommy Motola. She said, I wanted to burn the train of the dress. And it was 27 feet long, and Brett Ratner wouldn't let her burn the train.

She said, I don't know what was wrong with him. He didn't want me to set it on fire. But we could have done it post. I mean, come on. That would have been badass. That would have been bad fucking ass. Yes, set it on fire. Who gives a fuck?

So this is a massive hit for her. She goes on her first headlining tour in three years. She calls it The Adventures of Mimi, the Voice The Hits, the Tour. The Voice The Hits, the Tour. I love it. Carrie, she gets eight Grammy nomination. She wins three, I believe. And that was, again, the first time she had performed since she was totally snubbed

when she was nominated for six Grammys. and didn't win a single, not one of them, back in that other, I forget what album that was, because that was last episode. And I can't put any more information. If I put another piece of information, something else goes out. So, let's talk about E equals MC squared.

I'm sorry, the album that must not be named. What? So why are you so mean about this album? Being mean about it. I chose this album to be mean about. Yeah, you're mean about this album, and it's making me mad, and it's making Natalie sad.

Look how sad she looks right now. I'm indifferent I kind of am too But this was all right She referred to the emancipation of Mimi As the main course And that E equals MC squared Was to be looked at as a dessert

In other words like Not as great as Like but just another like fun follow-up Dessert is obviously the better part of dinner That's ridiculous We all love dessert Dessert It's not that it's not that dessert is lesser than the entree

No She for this album she has a studio That's why I'm mad. How dare you? You're right, Carrie. I'm also mad. Maybe this is what it is. She has a studio built into her private villa in Anguila, which is in the Caribbean.

I'm sure that's how you pronounce that. I'm sure that's how you pronounce that. Nail that. Nguila. And yeah, she, I love this. The cover, so the cover of the album, she's naked in a feather boa. And she's doing the same pose as Emancipation of Mimi, the cover of that album. And that is, I think, in a lot of ways to say, oh, these two.

albums are like companion pieces in a lot of ways. Alex McPherson of the Guardian described the cover for equals MC squared as such. Carrie is naked but for the world's largest feather boa, an accessory for which flocks of birds have surely given their lives. Oh no. Does you know that she didn't wear no fake feathers? No, no, no, no. She killed a bird and took one feather from each bird, so she made sure 500 birds started. And she looked them in the eyes as their pain registered. Yeah, I just like the idea that the birds willingly gave their lives to Mariah Carey in order for her to dawn this cover of this album with their bludish. Yeah, they lined up for it. I get it. So, yeah, this album has a lot of moments of levity, but there are moments of truth such as these song's

side effects in which Carrie talks about her abusive relationship with Tommy Motola. There are lyrics in there such as, shining like a chandelier that decorated every room inside, the private hell we built. And I dealt with it. Like a kid, I wished I could fly. away. Take that, Metola. Jenne! We was like peas and carrots. But don't worry, she's still being a diva through all this time, because

during a 2008 performance of her single Touch My Body from the album that must not be named, on ABC's Good Morning America, Carrie turned around mid-performance and chided a backup singer she believed was singing her part. Carrey sang in tune, stop singing my part now, baby. I would be so terrified if I was that singer.

I remember when we were talking about, we'll get into with like the New Year's thing, but apparently like backup singers and people that are playing her music on stage, she will not allow them to make eye contact with them. Yes. But isn't that a part of working with someone on stage is making eye contact so that, I mean, you're in a band, Holden, right? Don't you have to like look at each other to know when?

Oh, you guys don't look at each other, right? Right? You'll make it. Never. Never look at Holden in the eyes. Do you make them push you out in like a chair at the beginning of the show and everything? They can't look at you? Yeah, Holden, I hope you do.

That whole thing, yeah, I roll onto the stage and I lay face down like a dead animal. And I sing the words into a microphone built into the floor of the stage. I'd watch you do it, though. I love it. Also in 2008, love blooms yet against for Mariah. And this is when, so, yeah, Jackie's making those noises because I'm about to talk about Nick Cannon and she's like feeling bad for him. But I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry.

So in 2008, Mariah Carey because he should have known better. How should he have known better? He grew up, he was in love with her since he was a little kid. Are you victim blaming? Whoa, victim blaming. Canceled. He's canceled. So Mariah Carey makes a music video for her song Bye Bye, which was directed by Justin Francis and Nick Cannon, who also co-starred in it, which started

a whirlwind romance resulting in a wedding just two months later guys. Oh yeah, baby. They were married in the Bahamas actually technically six weeks later. Six weeks. Why? Move in. Take a year of just living together. You have to smell each other's poops. You have to smell each other's poops. You have to have their poop inside of your nose hairs for you to know if you love each other. I will say though the music video is super cute because it's an actual documentation of them falling in love. Like you can see it. It's palpable.

because they're all over each other in it. It's really cute. That would be such a cool thing, way to get together because then you just like, look, kids, that's like right before I fucked your mom for the first time.

So Nick Cannon said, of the trist, from the first time we sat down to discuss the video at the Beverly Hills Hotel, we connected. We had so much in common spiritually. And we laugh at the same things.

I didn't have to put on my Mac daddy suave mode. I was able to be myself. He's so cute. I was able to be myself with her. We are both eternally 12 years old, which I believe. I just, I don't know if Mariah Carey's ever been a child. I don't see her being 12 years old.

No, I can't, I can't imagine. I think that she only registers people that are on their way up or are already up as high as she is, it seems like, which is part of the problem. I think with her as we will get into her children later on. where it's like, I think she'll respect them once they are old enough to be people. Right. She was planning a tour for several months that kept getting pushed back until was canceled purportedly due to a miscarriage.

Mariah, sorry. Yeah. Oh, bummer. Yeah. But this is a not bummer. In 2009, she's redeemed as an actress. She gets a ton of critical acclaim for her role as a social worker in the film, Precious, which of course was very well received.

This is actually after she's been in a couple of movies. at this point. What else was she in? So she was in this movie in 1999 with Chris O'Donnell. No one cares about it. She was in another movie in 2002 called Wise Girls with Mira Sorvino also no one cares about it. It's like small stuff though, but I kind of I kind of commend her because that was maybe her attempting to you know, strengthen her acting chops while not making a big deal out of it. You know what I mean? So this was a big thing. So the reason why she did precious and this is actually after she did the 2008 independent film Tennessee,

where she plays a waitress who longs for a singing career, and then she meets two brothers on a quest to find their father. I just want to leave Tennessee. I'm just glad that we could really shoot horns some more Forrest Gump in there. This whole actually butted because as we saw it in last week's episode, she meets people that understand her on a different level when it comes to creating. And this is when she met Lee Daniels. don't get her, Natalie. You don't get her. I don't. You don't get her. I don't get her. You don't get her. You don't get to

work on her beats. Lee Daniels. She worked with in the movie Tennessee, in the 2017 movie The Butler. He also is the person that created the hip-hop drama empire, which Mariah Carey did a couple of episodes in. So, Precius, based on the novel Push by Sapphire, took on, Mariah Carey took on a very different role as Precice's guidance counselor. And I remember seeing this. I couldn't even believe that it was Mariah Carey. What Lee Daniels says about her, there was an immediate tight bond. We were kindred spirits and drawn to each other immediately.

We come from similar backgrounds and upbringings, and we bring that to our writing and our work. So we appreciated each other's works, and there was a mutual respect, and I was determined to take the persona of what people perceived as Mariah and use my craft to marry with her craft and make some magic together.

And that's when they made the film The Craft. Oh, my God. would love to see Mariah Carey in the craft. Are you kidding me? That is a great pop history episode, by the way. Yeah, totally in. But I like that he also has come out multiple times to defend Mariah Carey, and he says that she's very fragile, and she's been through a lot.

She's been used. She's been abused. Some people have that Teflon sort of thing that I do, so she masks it with this coquettish thing that is hiding her nervousness and her pain and her own family's abuse to her. She's misunderstood because she's really, really right or die. She really, really, really will do anything for you, which makes me think of when we were talking about last week with Breakdown. It seems like when you are on her level,

and I think that's why Nick Cannon fell in love with her, she's there. She'll do it. She'll be it. But you have to be on a specific plane with her to get there. Jackie, would you describe me as ride or die? No. No.

That was easy. I'm more flyer cry I think I'm more flyer cry I mean you definitely stared at me while I've cried before so yes I guess All right let's talk about memoirs of an imperfect angel Because at this point we are obligated to talk about precious Though we there's so much more

I can't there's like four more albums to cover I can't do this anymore She did too much That's it, that's end of episode She did too many things When she won the 2010 Palm Springs International Film Festival For her role in precious She went up and did an acceptance speech with Lee Daniels where she is hammered.

So please look it up. The Lee Daniels, the 2010 Bomb Springs International Film Festival, Mariah Carey, acceptance speech. Yikes. And she even says in it, I may have had a lot of champagne or like, says something like, I'm definitely drunk. Maybe could we hear some of the speech? Sure. I have to say this is, and please forgive me because I'm a little bit yet. Honestly, this material was so amazing to me that when Lee called me two days before he, was not two days.

Thank you, Helen Marin. I met Helen Mirren tonight. I was so excited. I couldn't believe it. The genius, Helen Mirren. From a queen to a diva. Yes, that's what, you know, difficult. So anyway, she's clearly drunk there.

Yes, she is, she is a thousand percent drunk. But yeah, let's get into memoirs of an imperfect. Memoirs of an imperfect angel, her 2009 album. She goes into the studio with a producer whose name I could only wish to have the confidence to give myself this nickname. The Dream is the name of this producer. And in early 2009, they are working on her next album. The Dream said, she can't take a loss.

She has to do everything to the T. So it's basically like we're trying to make a greatest hits album without using the greatest hits. Yikes. So Carrie said she was trying to make something that lovers of the butterfly album would really enjoy. And every song is a snapshot of a moment in a story, i.e. a memoir.

She said a lot of the songs reflect specific different times in my life, actual events that happened to me, some of which are from way back in the past. Others were inspired by movies or from a friend of mine that may have told me their story. So there you go. The album has a single called Obsessed. That is an interesting song because that song is shading the F word out of Eminem. Who apparently, through the blind items, it says that Moran, Ryan,

M&M have had sexual relations in the past. Well, and Eminem had a song called Bagpipes from Baghdad. The song Obsessed is in response to his track, Bagpipes from Baghdad

in which he insinuates that he and Carrie had a relationship and dis is Nick Cannon. Carrie makes a video in which she plays both herself and like clearly Eminem. Then Eminem responds with a disc track that is so brutal

that I can't even begin to explain. That's what he does, though. Yeah, he uses actual voicemails. He uses actual voicemails that she left for him. It is fucking a gut. It is mean. It is mean. It's mean. So all day, Poor Nick Cannon. Mariah Carey's 12th studio album is the worst performing of her almost 20 year career at the time. You gotta have it. I mean, not everyone's going to be solid gold, you know. You're right. Yeah, I think the emphasis needs to be put on 12th studio album. It's just too many. There's so many. It's just so much content.

She will not stop. So now we're in the 2010s. She releases her 13th studio album. Please stop, Mariah. Because I cannot do any more research. I wish it was called Please Stop Marais. Yes. But no, is this the one that's Merry Christmas Roman numeral two years?

Yes. This is her second Christmas album. She includes six new songs. and a remix of all I went for Christmas is you. In 2011, Carrie gives birth to her fraternal twin, a son and daughter, Monroe, which of course is named after Marilynne, because of course, because it's Mariah Carey. Actually, she was obsessed with Marilyn Monroe.

Of course she was. And when asked why, she said, because Marilyn Monroe Productions was the first female-owned production company in Hollywood. She paved the way for women in Hollywood, and every single woman owes something to her for that, whether they agree with her image or not. So actually, you know what, I'm behind that. I'm into it.

That was an actual statement she made. That wasn't insane. Also, the other one, I love this, the name of the other kid, though. The other kid's name is Moroccan. Why? Nick Cannon proposed to Mariah Carey in a Moroccan themed apartment. Because it's the top tier of Mariah Carey's New York apartment is referred to as the Moroccan room.

The Moroccan. And that is where Nick Cannon. proposed her, but I do love is that her nickname for the kids is Dem babies. And one of her quotes about her kids is, I never ever thought I was going to have kids. Dot, dot, dot, dot, ever. I remember as a child saying, I'm never going to get married. I'm never going to have kids. I think they're disgusting.

And if I had kids, I would hate them. And that's essentially what she was saying. And during the C-section of her fraternal twins, Carrie and then husband Nick Cannon played a live version of her hit track fantasy. She said, I wanted them to hear the applause. So I can't wait for their tell-all when they're grown up. These four children, but also Nick Cannon says that they listen a lot when they were married to Mariah Carey's music while they had sex. Oh my.

Nick Cannon says she makes sexy music. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person in the world that listens to Mariah Carey when having sex. It just so happens I'm having sex with Mariah Carey. It's the closest that she can get to having sex with herself. With herself. Oh, she has sex. God damn, Jackie, you got some good pool quotes, girl, this episode. Holy fucking hell.

What in the fuck? That's so fucked up. That's so weird. Wow. Wait, wait, maybe what should we? start listening to the podcast, William 6? I think that is the best idea we've had all day. So Mariah Carey Round this time, she's added as a judge on American Idol to replace

Jennifer Lopez, which is perfect. And she is an experience that she described as, it was like going to work every day in hell with Satan. Jesus. Oh my God. Because of her experience with Nikki Minaj. Oh, my God. I have so many stories on here

How horrible she is to work with That was my favorite quote that I got It was like going to work every day In hell You mean fun? Yeah Yeah yeah Yeah exactly that doesn't even like

For Natalie that's like wow That's like my favorite party She also of course Fucking because she can't stop And someone must at some point stop her In 2011 she started writing a new album while pregnant, and it was an inspiration, which ended up being a big inspiration for her. She collaborated this time with tons of people for this next album.

DJ Clue, Randy Jackson, Q-Tip, unfortunately, R. Kelly's in the mix on this one. Jermaine Dupree, The Dream, and DeBrat, just to name a few, there were also rappers in there, such as Nas and Mary J. Blige. Carrie said, there are a lot more raw ballads than people might expect, and it opens with the track cry. This, of course, is me. What is it again? Me, I am Mariah, the elusive Chantus.

Me, I am Mariah, dot, dot, dot, the elusive chantrus is the name of her album. What is Shantus? I believe it's like some sort of muse, I want to say. Google it while I talk about Cry. Cry, it opens the album. And usually I feel like most of her albums open with like a very upbeat poppy number. Cry is a beautiful ballad. I really loved it.

Also, speaking of beautiful, hashtag beautiful, is the lead single. She does that, performs that with Miguel. And it has this really cool old school rock and roll slash soul vibe that I really dug. It's just like, it's apparently just like a cabaret singer, a Sean Toose. Interesting. Well, it's a ridiculous album title. And unfortunately, at the end of 2014, poor Nick Cannon. I don't think it's unfortunate.

I think probably it's better for Nick Cannon. Yeah, it's probably it works out. Well, he even recently, though, said he was like, I'd marry her again. He said that he would because when Wendy Williams asked why they broke up, Nick Cannon said it should be a situation where everyone, a marriage should be a situation where everyone's becoming a better human being in the relationship. So when you get to a point where there's no longer any growth and you're not bettering each other, I felt like it was probably best, especially for our children, since they're the number one

priority if I could be the best human being and the best father from outside of that house. Oh, that's, you know, I guess I feel bad for him. Whatever, though. I do feel bad for him because I think that he really, it seemed like he really tried to make it work. He sounds like a battered husband. He does sound like a better husband. Yeah, honestly, if you do see him at like a party or something listeners out there. All those parties I go to, yeah, with Mac Cannon. If you see him at a party listeners, like, suck his, maybe suck his dick. I don't think he needs to. I think he's with someone else. I think he's, I'm sure he's probably. He's, he's probably, he's. He's, happy, but he still has to be in Mariah's life because they co-parent Moroccan and Monroe together.

No, no, stop. I don't want you to like my dick. He really wants to. He really, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I think it's. Yeah, so I guess we didn't even mention, so they filed for divorce at the end of 2014. It was finalized in 2016, Portnac Cannon. Let's move on to her Vegas residency.

But that's also, why was it, why was the, the divorce was actually fine? because she got engaged to billionaire James Packer. Okay, so she's, she's a big, this is so much shit. She's doing way too much shit right now is what it feels like. I can't believe she didn't have another giant breakdown around this time. Well, she did. She might have. In 2016.

Oh, right, right. We'll get there. So she announced a residency at the Coliseum at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas in early 2015. She calls it number one to infinity, which coincided with a, new greatest hits compilation of the same name that was released around the same time. She directs her first film because she's directing movies now. A Christmas Melody. We watched it last year.

She directed that, Natalie. Like how fucking, yeah. I'm going to put a caveat on the great. The great review there. I thought it was great. It's greatly entertaining. It is entertaining. She stars in a pretty fail, I would say a failed reality show,

Mariah's World, which ran for eight seasons. It is another, a lot of fun one, where we learned the idea that she apparently has a rule, that she only, she usually, whenever you see her wearing sunglasses, it's because she's in fluorescent lighting. She said, I have a rule which states that I will not be seen in fluorescent lighting without sunglasses. I know, it's very 90s. Wait, did you say, that ran for eight seasons?

No, eight episodes. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, failed, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's on her sweet, sweet, sweet fantasy tour. and she's planning her wedding because she had become engaged Australian billionaire James Packer

in January of that year and that engagement ended in October of the same year apparently they were both going through a lot of mental issues Packer was also came out and was just like I was toxic

Packer pays Carrie a $70 million inconvenience fee good because she needs another $70 million that will help This is around the same time that Nick Cannon gets a call. Nick Cannon calls Mariah's manager because he received a distressing call from the

kid's nanny that Mariah was having erratic behavior. The staffer reportedly raised the alarm after she found Mariah, quote, wearing a ball gown and a tiara and sporting a ring pop she claimed was given to her from the royal family. I forgot about that. Yes. I mean, it does sound like she's having fun, especially because she was so detached from reality that she thought she was having dinner.

with Michael Jackson, Prince, and Whitney Houston, all of whom were dead at the time. Fearing her employer had become a danger to herself and others, the nanny reportedly made the call to Mariah's team for help. She was immediately hospitalized again, but apparently tried to throw herself from the moving car while on the way to the hospital. Oh, no, that's not good.

And this is two months before that New Year's kerfuffle, which, again, of how much we made jokes about it, I didn't realize she was just out of being. She shouldn't have done that. She shouldn't have done it. She shouldn't be doing these things. Do you think that it's people on her team pushing her? Do you think it's only her, like insisting?

It's got to be both, right? Because it's Christmas, and she's the queen of Christmas, so she has to get out there and she's got to do the thing. She's got to be this just now she's being put into another box, which she, like we talked about last week, she enjoys being the queen of Christmas, but it is still something else that it's like, now she has to be available every Christmas season

to be the puppet for the people, that they need her to be. Well, I think that is maybe one of the problems that you come across being famous for so long is that you might have an issue with being alone with yourself. Yeah. And really having any sort of identity that's not the outside performer. Like, I have to go do this. This is what I do.

This is who I am. I have to do this thing. Right. Like, you really needed rest. Yes. And that's why she, this is around the time that she starts really opening up about her bipolar disorder. Yes. because they had never really said it.

She was diagnosed in 2001 with bipolar 2 disorder, but did not seek treatment until around 2016. Carrie said, until recently, I lived in denial and isolation, and in constant fear someone would expose me. It was too heavy a burden to carry us, and I simply couldn't do that anymore. I sought and received treatment. I put positive people around me,

and I got back to doing what I love, writing songs, and making music. She also said, for a long time, I thought I had a severe sleep disorder, but it wasn't normal insomnia, and I wasn't lying awake counting sheep. I was working and working and working and working. I was irritable and in constant fear of letting people down. It turns out that I was experiencing a form of mania.

Eventually, I would just hit a wall. I guess my depressive episodes were characterized by having very low energy. I would feel so lonely and sad, even guilty, that I wasn't doing what I needed to be doing for my career. I think that's an important part of, I think a slight part, at least of what I suffer with my mental illness. It's the guilt you feel when you're not. in your mania of what you're not getting done, which then again pushes you further and further

down into a depression, which is sound like is why she's kept herself going so hard for so long is because she can't stop. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think any of us here are bipolar too, but the limited information I know about it is like that up and down part of it probably is contributing to why she's not sleeping and then the need to go perform when she's, tried to get help for a minute. Like she needed her, her body in her mind were like compulsively making her do that. Yeah. But it's like why treatment is so important and necessary, especially when you have the means like that, you have to treat it because otherwise you'll, you'll do terrible things to yourself. And she's just fighting with herself. Yeah. Essentially. New Year's Eve

2016. Let's talk about it. Carrie hits the stage with apparently quote unquote dead ears. And as her manager put it. By the way, I read it like an interview with her manager about this, and her manager seems like the scariest person. She just seems like a frightening woman from all, like, by all accounts. You have to be. Her tone came across in this written interview like a scary person. Like, I didn't even hear her voice. And I was just like, uh-uh. She was like, no, not true. This is what happened. You're all idiots. And like, well, Mariah Carey's manager has to be made of tough things. Yeah, because she's slinging it, man. Yes. So she couldn't hear any music in her earpiece apparently.

And without her earpiece, you can see her take her earpiece out. But the problem was that there was just the way that the sound was reverberating around the buildings of Times Square, like she just could not hear the music at all. And so after

Emotion starts, so she does like this Au Lengzine rendition that's like Acapella, but then the song Emotion starts and Carrie just says out loud, we're missing some of these vocals, but it is what it is. Let the audience sing. And she's just kind of fucking right. She's like, I'm trying to be a good sport out here.

I just rewatched it like a little while ago. And it's just like so, it's so funny and so cringy. And I don't know. It's very gringy. And she did say that it was out of her control. And had everything not been such a total chaotic mess, then I would have been able to make something happen. Even the dancers should have stopped dancing and helped me off the fucking stage.

I'm sorry. It was a mess. And I blame everybody. And I blame myself. for not leaving after rehearsal. Wow. Because apparently things weren't set the way she wanted them to be set

and things weren't done during rehearsal for the news, but it's like... She blames, literally everybody, including us. Oh, everybody. It's everybody's fucking fault. I think probably it's just that she needed to have not been doing that right after she got out of treatment. She needed some time.

She needed to take some time. But, you know, she can't because she's got more music to write. And don't worry, Natalie. She redeems herself in 2018. she returns to Dick Clark's New Year's Rocking Eve with Dry and Seacrest to redeem herself.

She performs vision of love and hero and the beautiful thing made out of dead animals and just kills it and just crushes the performance. It's all good. Mimi's back. Also, and I couldn't even really get too far into it. She writes

an album called Caution. What I will say about Caution is that she became, Ryan Cary became the first artist to bump herself out of the number one spot on Billboard's top R&B albums chart because her 1994 album Merry Christmas, which is considered a mainstay among Christmas albums

specifically for a tent, all I want for Christmas is you, dethroned her 2018 album caution. Again, because every Christmas it comes back and bust it out. You ready for it? Because we're going to be listening to all I want for Christmas I haven't heard it yet. You haven't heard it? My problem is that

now, because of all of Mariah Carey research, it's just been in my head. So I've just been singing things to the tune of all I want for Christmas is you because I refuse to listen to the song because it's not Thanksgiving yet. Well, fear not, guys, because she just released a giant 25th anniversary edition of her first holiday album. Thank God, I was so afraid. I was so afraid. And she did that for us in November of this year.

And so you can go listen to that. You can go listen to our other 500 albums that she released and her other 18,000. songs that she put out. But it really is unbelievable. She has currently has 18 number one hits, which is fucking crazy. And she has sold more than 200 million records. And Mimi is still Mimi. She's still out there.

She's, I mean, we, in another five years, we're going to have a whole, we could probably have a whole other episode of Mariah Carey. I'm sure we could. I think that we could, I think that this is a good Mariah Carey quote to end on. An interviewer asked her, what's the hardest thing about being Mariah Carey? She said, darling, is there anything easy? No, I don't mean that. Can you take a guess? And he said, if I had to, I would say it's got to be all the scrutiny you get from the media.

She says, of course it is. But I guess I feel like this is something I've wanted to do for my whole life. If that comes with it, you take the good with the bad, and you just have to be well balanced and handle anything that comes along. It's up to me to decide what to focus on. Yeah, we all take knocks from people in the media. I'm not the only one who does. so I'm not going to belabor that point.

I'm just going to keep being myself and keep pushing. It's not covered. It's not written down. I have to be done. I have to stop learning about. So we've learned. She's learned nothing. We've learned nothing.

She's learned nothing. We've learned nothing. She will keep going. Hopefully she gets her mental illness completely under control. But until then, she's going to keep being the ridiculous diva that we know in love. And that's it. We don't have to read about Mariah Carey at all, except for the fact that this is coming out later

and we have more weeks. We have all of Christmas to think about Mariah Carey and because she's the queen of Christmas now. I may, she's doing a big Christmas show at Madison Square Garden. I am considering paying way too much money to see her perform. Don't worry, guys.

Front row tickets to that are only $3,000. $3,000. But I may get nosebleed tickets to see that because I hate myself. So we'll see if that works out. I hope if you pay for those $3,000 tickets, she at least throws her shoe at you or something. So I think at least the kids must come out.

Oh, yeah. She beats you. She hurts you in some fashion. In some form of abuse, whether it be mental or physical or emotional, she will perform it on you while she performs for you. We love you guys. Thank you so much for going on this journey of Mariah Carey with us. I hope you feel just as reclaimed as we do about how we should

still truly feel about Mariah Carey. But you know what? The worst part is that I still love her. Absolutely. I'm fine with her. We'll talk to you guys soon. Yeah, take care, everybody. Bye.

Bye. You got the best of me. You're going to keep on in Saturday. Oh, I have. This show is made possible by listeners like Hugh. Thanks to our ad sponsors. you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to,

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