Page 7 - Pop History: Pee-wee Herman Pt II

Episode Date: March 10, 2020

In part two we have a talk abouts Pee-wee Herman, picking up our story with Pee-wee's Playhouse.Want even more Page 7? Follow us on Patreon for weekly bonus episodes.  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is there a song? I don't even know. Oh, no song. I mean, we could get into this. La la la la la la la la la la. There you go. I would like, I would be remiss if I didn't mention before we move on from Pee We's Big Adventure. Yes, when we last left off we were talking, we were just finishing up our talk about Pee We's Big Adventure.

And then I, after we finished recording the episode a couple hours later, I got a frantic text from Natalie saying we need to talk about these cameos. And I think you are correct. Completely correct. There's so many things that I, I'm Natalie Jean, by the way. And I'm Holden, and that other voice is Jackie. I am Jackie. Also, really quick, I have a song to start with now that you mention the cameos. See no evil and you hear no evil.

Don't you lay no evil down on me? You're going to burn in hell. So that is the Twisted Sister song in the movie during the Chase Secrets, which is so funny, by the way. And was stuck in my head for like three days after watching a big adventure. that is such a funny song and they're all like on this like cool corvette like being all sexy and stuff

it's so funny as a former music video ho I've really felt for those girls who had to walk next to that car for probably 12 hours that day in heels but they got to perform with Pee Wee Herman and Twisted Sister and D. Sinterr I guess it's pretty great

I will also the Danny Elfman I loved that they sort of went I think it went this direction that Pee We would do stuff in the movie and then he would create score to what Peewee was doing. So that song, you know, that song La La La La La La La La. It seems as though Danny Elfman then took that theme and made that theme from him singing and there's like the part where he's banging on the door.

It really goes along with I thought it was cool. Hell yeah. Anyway, just quickly, if you guys weren't aware, most of you probably are, but a lot of the original Peewee's people made cameos in the movie. which are really fun to spot. Of course, Phil Hartman's in it at the end as a reporter. And he co-wrote the movie with Peewee, Paul Rubens, that is. And then Lynn Marie, who plays Miss Avon, shows up as Mother Superior.

She's in the nun scene with the Wonder Years Kid. Tim Burton himself actually plays the guy, creepy guy in the alleyway who confronts him before he goes, whatever, like makes them all scared and they run away. Yeah, one of my favorite parts. I know, super fun. The guy who plays Jombie, whose name is John Paragon, he shows up on the lot at the end of the movie. He's the guy in the red armor.

And he's also one of the creators of Peewey Herman as well as Peewee's Playhouse. You know what's, I always thought he was the one that was in the drag showgirl outfit, but it wasn't it. He was in the red armor. And then, oh, Cassandra Peterson, of course, who is Alvira, shows up as the biker mama in the bike scene. And she rules. and they were in the ground links together.

Cool. Hell yeah. I love it. No, that's another thing that, you know, I think that we're really driving home with this whole Pee-Wee-Herman talk-about is that I love that he worked with a lot of the same people for a long time. Talk-abouts. I'm going to talk about, okay?

Completely normal way to say what that. That was absolutely just the most elegance. Talk-abouts, okay? You know, also P-W-Hirman shows that even if, Even if you're weird, you deserve love too, okay? I would really, I'd love to have it finally sit down and have a serious talk abouts with you guys. We're having a talk about today because we're definitely going to have talk abouts when we get into Big Top Peewee because, you know, it does upset me that everyone hates Big Top Peewee so much. But we will get there in time.

Who hates that? Who hates it? Who hates it? And also, I definitely did get my brother a Super Deluxe Prince vinyl set. This costs a lot of mine. It's about 10 vinals. and let's talk about Pewey's Playhouse.

I don't know how many times I can cancel you, but I will keep trying. So, okay, that's where we've left off. Now we're coming off of the success of Peewey's Big Adventure, which is a bit of a surprise, I think, for everybody. CBS then hits up Paul Rubens to do a cartoon series for their network.

Rubens, though, not really into it. Classic Paul Rubin's style. I love that this guy always fights for exactly what he wants creatively, that he doesn't just yes, yes, yes, his way into disasters. He really does fight for his own work. And so he says, no, I don't want to do an animated show. And in 1986, they agreed to sign Rubens on for a live action Saturday morning children's show, which makes so much sense.

I mean, he already has everything's in place for it. He just needs to make it like slightly less adults, but not that much less adult because there are a lot of weird sexual innuendos and stuff all throughout that show. Oh, yeah. And now Paul Rubens had said in Rolling Stone, So when they suggested doing a cartoon, I said, I'm not really interested in that. Let's do a real kid show. I was a big howdy-duty freak growing up. I was actually on one show when I was a kid in the audience

and was more interested in doing something like that, which, as we all know, he got. And originally, the initial concept was for the show to be much more animation-heavy after this and not rely on just his presence to save him from having to be on set for weeks on end, says Steve Oakes, co-founder of broadcast arts. But he got really into it.

and immersed himself in the project, he really became the centerpiece and more than just a host, which it's crazy to think that he was, he was supposed to be more of like a cryptkeeper of this show, as opposed to it being all about Pee Wee Herman, which is what made us all fall in love with it.

Yeah, completely. And I mean, he had a total, like he was the producer, director, and actor in this thing. He had full creative control. He ends up bringing in his old groundling pals, Phil Hartman, John Paragon, and Lynn Marie Stewart, who you just mentioned, Hartman ended up too busy to do the show after season one, unfortunately,

due to getting cast on SNL. Largely Lawrence Fishburn's Cowboy Curtis replaced a lot of his effect on the show, his element on the show. Now, I do want to take a quick divot real fast because this was actually a huge part of the relationship between Paul Rubens and Phil Hartman was when Phil Hartman joined SNL. Paul Rubens was pissed when he joined SNL. They says one observer, there was a lot of jealousy between Paul and Phil. They were close friends, but Paul never really went out of his way to help Phil in his career.

Rubens viewed Hartman's ascension to Saturday Night Live as disloyalty. Paul actually was angry about this rather than happy for Phil's success. He was really nasty to Phil and felt the reason he got the job was because Paul had originally brought him there as a writer. They didn't speak for years. So now, Paul Rubens, as we know, we talked about this last episode. He was told that he was not asked to join S&L, but he was asked after Pee We's Big Adventure to host an episode of S&L. And he said, okay, I'll host an episode,

but I want Phil Hartman to come and write sketches for me for the show. So he feels that him doing that was how he got. SNL was starting to become friends with all of them and really getting into it. And unfortunately, later on, Phil Hartman did sue Paul Rubin's because he felt he should have received more credit and more money for helping to create the Pee-We-Herman character. Hartman was pushed out and Rubens began a CBS TV show

instead of honoring the contract the two had. But, and they didn't really, they talked a little bit after the 91 incident, but pretty much they never worked together ever again after. Man, that's so sad. I think that's one of those young stories where if Phil had been able to survive, they would have eventually made up

because it does, it does sound like one of those classic. It's almost like, Okay, so Paul Rubens was really butt hurt, excuse me, that's... I'm upset. My butt does hurt and I'm offended. Wow, I can't believe I'm canceling someone ever butt hurt, but you end-backed Natalie are through. As I said it, I was like, this is probably really offensive. That he didn't get on SNL when he auditioned.

And it would be almost like somebody, I don't know, like somebody I was married to if maybe his best friend, Holden or Eddie got on to us and and then trying to deal with that emotionally. Oh, Henry would just be the worst about it. He'd be like, you know how he gets when he's mad. He just, he becomes a fucking animal. He becomes a fucking monkey man. Yeah, he goes, oh, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. And he's always making that sound.

What are you even saying right now, you animal? I think he would actually be a really much more like Paul Rubens than that he would be emotionally. Yeah. He would be so hurt. There's just something, it's, there's something about the SNL effect that I agree. with you on Natalie and it would be hard I think for any of us at this point to see someone else in our little crew end up getting that because it's like Henry got incredibly

close I remember those times I thought my life was going to change change because of that I'm sure Phil Hartman felt the same way when Paul Rubens was the was one of the final two people to be selected and didn't you know but Phil Harbin wanted to shine he needed to of course to have distance from Paul Rubin's and I think when if later on in life Paul Rubens would have understood that probably. But, you know, now you got Che there, so you get to meet Taylor Swift and everything's fine. I didn't get a meter, but I got to, like, be in the same room with her whatever. And also out of this, we did get Lawrence Fish Burns, Cowboy Curtis.

I will say, as a child, oh boy. Oh, did I make your melon swell or whatever? Is that what you're talking about? Even watching Pee Wee's Playhouse now, his style, his essence, I want, I'm in love with Cowboy Curtis. That wasn't, it was not his first acting job. He was a child actor, but that was his first notable role, and it kind of pushed his career. Yeah. So a lot of people were horny for him.

Yeah, I think that's one of those favorite, like, internet things. Like, dude, did you know that Lawrence Fish, like, do you remember this shit? Because a lot of people forget it, but it's in the back of their heads. And I think it was the start of him being just in your consciousness as a person who watches stuff. So for the first season, the show ends up getting filmed in a converted loft on Broadway. way in New York City, which was described as, quote, a sweatshop by staff writer George McGrath. Apparently, just absolutely a nightmare, difficult space just to work with, of course,

very New York in that sense. It does end up getting moved to the Hollywood Center Studios in L.A. Pop quiz, pop quiz. Pop quiz. Who was the PA on that show, who we discussed before? I'll give our listeners a chance to shout it out before we yell it at them. Rob Zombie! Yay!

Good job! So, yeah, I love that too. There was one other, oh, fuck, I didn't write it down. There was one other very notable PA on that show. John Singleton, who was the director of Boys in the Hood. No shit. So, yeah, so they moved to L.A. The show, as you said, was inspired by both Howdy Duty, also Captain Kangaroo.

And it was really cool because Captain Kangaroo totally came out and was like, I love this show and had a lot of support for it, which must have been a thrill for Paul Rubens. And also in comparing it to, which I love it when it does in a positive way, Captain Gangeroo had said it has awesome production values. With the possible exception of the Muppets, you can't find such creativity anywhere on TV. Which can you imagine your childhood hero saying that about you? And also just comparing, if I was ever compared to a Muppet, I'd die. I would die. I love the Muppets.

Any Muppet? Does it matter which Muppet? Well, I guess it does matter which Muppet. Me, me, me, me, me. Me, me. I'm a bit of a beeky. I just want to be eaten by snuffaloffigus, I think. I just want to be, like, devoured by one of the giant monsters.

Oh, you wanted you, like, you have four fetishes? I have a Muppet, for fetish, a little bit. A little bit. I would just, like, jerk off inside the big mouth of the monster. Who dare you? I'm just saying. One leg in there. Just get the one.

Yeah. So, the opposite of what I just said is that Peewee Herman really also molded his character into having more of a moral compass. And that really revolved around the golden rule of treat others how you wish to be treated. And that's a lot of the big difference between Peewee before now. He really became much more. He realized like he's a role model. He's got to have these qualities.

He's got to teach something or at least give some sort of messaging to children. But it did have that crossover audience because you have this nostalgia feel of those old childhood shows. John Lindauer, the animation director, said, Innocence is like the opposite of pretension. And that's the real genius of Paul Rubens and the genius of Peewee, which I absolutely love. Well, I really like is that he, so he was striving to keep it positive, and he was sensitive to how impressionable the audience was. And I enjoyed that not only did he really push positive habits, but him as a person and in character, he made sure that, like, the kids on set would never see him chain smoking in the back, that, like, that kind of thing where he tried to keep him as a person. and him as a character, two separate things,

which I think I've talked about this on the show before, like when Henry cried for weeks because Donatello took his head off when he was at his seventh birthday party and ruined him. You should not have done that. No, you got to keep the head on. Yeah, you got to keep the head on.

But I do love who we're really going for Henry on this one. I'm getting you back for all those last podcast episodes, Henry. Don't even think I'm not going to talk. It's because he's Francis in this world. That's where we have to keep bringing it. back. So anyways, you mentioned that Captain Kangaroo mentioned the amazing production value and the amazing just creative force that was the set, the puppets, everything. We got to talk about it. I think it's the most thrilling, greatest thing about Pee Wee Herman's Playhouse and really just sets it

apart from everything else. So let's, and what I loved about learning about this, these are all people, these are not industry people. These are largely artists that he handpicked to join that were new to this in a lot of ways to like doing a TV show that is, that sort of thing. They were coming at it from a creative art perspective, not from a, I've been doing children shows for 10 years and I want to blow my brains out perspective. And I think that really helped a lot. The artist who created the set and puppets included Wayne White, Gary Panter, Craig Bartlett, Richard Goldzowski, Gregory Harrison, Rick Heitzman, and Phil Trumbo.

Panter, the art director and production designer, was actually an underground comic book artist out of L.A. And his wife, I would like to add in there. Sure. His wife was also a part of the production. She came on through the live version of it, the one that was in L.A. She also was the tour manager for the punk band, the germs, which was very exciting for me.

And she was sort of brought on during the more adult stage show to be. They were calling her like the cool. The woman who would check to make sure everything looked cool and sounded cool, basically. Interesting. Yeah, I do know that Gary Panter also was huge in the punk movement. Yeah. Which is something that Pee We Herman really want, Paul Rubin's really wanted as a part of, especially the production design of Pee We's Playhouse because he had also created the,

I think that I mentioned this last week, he'd also created the posters for the original Pee Wee's, the Pee We Herman show that was before Pee We's Big Adventure. and he was someone that he had come to Paul Rubens and they worked because he had seen him in a late night's set and was like, hey, I want to work with you. And it really brings that punk energy to the show, which is something that I immediately was drawn to even as a kid. Also, she played in the original stage show, the HBO special.

She plays the sister who goes, I'm not wearing any underpants. That's her. That's his wife. Also, you have Wayne White, who, hilariously enough, lied about being a, quote, puppet expert to get a job on the show. He said, we were doing our jobs for the first time. Who would have hired us in Hollywood? Nobody. Paul was cool enough. He was an artist himself and he hired all these unknowns. That was the power of the playhouse. It was an art project that happened to get on TV,

which I think is a great way to put it. He also said this about their, just their total approach. We felt complete freedom to borrow from any source we could. I was thinking a lot about German expressionism and little golden books from the 50s. We were all thinking about toys from the 50s and 60s, too. We were thinking about abstract painting. You name it, we would throw it in there. Also, I love this. I should have assumed this was the case just by hearing the song.

But Cindy Lopper does voice the theme song, which she admitted to in her autobiography, though it is actually credited to Eline Shaw or Eileen Shaw. It's Ellen Shaw was one of Cindy Lopper's backup singers. She was actually brought in after Cindy Lopper had, so Paul Rubens went to Cindy Lopper and was like, hey, will you do my theme song? She's like, I don't really have time. She turned it down, but she recommended her backup singer. And even though Ellen Shaw kept trying to sound just like Cindy Lopper, because as we know, Paul Rubens is a perfectionist and he wanted Cindy Lopper singing the song and she couldn't exactly get it right, to which point Cindy Lopper came in to try and coach this woman of how to sing like her.

She still couldn't get it, so she just did it as a favor for Paul Rubens, but still wanted Ellen Shaw to get the credit as well. I read that she actually didn't want to do it because she had just put out, I believe, True Colors. One of the really serious songs she had written, and she didn't think that people would, she wanted to be taken seriously, and she didn't think people would, like, as much like the song, True Colors and, like, kind of connect to that side of her if she did the people. Peewey song. Doing something silly. Yeah. And also it was weird that you brought up Mark Mothersbaugh earlier, Holden,

because he co-composed the theme song. Oh, interesting. And he'll come back later when we talk about Peewee's Big Holiday. Uh-huh. Mark Mothersbaugh, he, of course, was Devo and did a bunch of scores. He's like another, he's essentially

another Elfman situation. Yeah, he makes me, I always think of Rugrats immediately. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, he's done so, like, the soundtrack of our lives. But really, it's true. so many things that you don't realize.

These jerks really just did mold our brains when we were growing up. Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. Also, Jombie's Mecca Leca hi, Meca Hideo. That came actually from John Paragon when he was in a sketch in the groundlings. It was set in a Hawaiian restaurant, and he was just doing like bad Hawaiian gibberish just on the spot, and it stuck. Which also could not be done nowadays.

No. No, no. But, I mean, it works in the situation. I don't know. I feel like Jambi. Then it's not, yeah, Jombie is not, yeah. And also the reason why season three,

if you go on Netflix and you look and you go, why is season three two episodes long, there was a writer strike. So season three was very short. They also did a Christmas special that year, but that was it. Wait, do you guys watch the Christmas special? Yeah, it was awesome.

I want to talk about this Christmas special for just a moment. Yeah, please. It is amazing. It is filled with talk about, Star studded, and is in that weird third season where the writer strike is. And if you are like me and still like to watch it every year, because it is one of those fun ones that also includes,

it's one of the first Christmas specials that also nods to Hanukkah as well. I know. And they get a whole song. Yeah, that's why Paul Rubens was dead set on that. And I really appreciate that as well. It was written in five days by Paul Rubens and John Paragon. It was nominated for two Emmys. So this is also in entirety, Pee Wee's Playhouse was nominated for 15 Emmys,

which is absolutely nuts. So in this book that we were reading, they were talking about some of the fun things on set with the cameos that had come on. This is according to George McGrath, who's one of the screenwriters that has been working with Pee-wee through most of this. He was talking about Jaja Gabor. He said, Jaja was crazy. She loved to improvise, which would have been great, except nothing she ad-lib made any sense. She was by far the biggest pain in the ass of all the celebrities. What's the deal with Jaja Gabor?

She's such thing, she's so lost at time. She's such like a, she's such like a B. Arthur, too, like a punchline kind of person. Yeah, she's a character to me. I only know her from references and comedies for her slapping somebody, I think? Didn't she hit someone? I honestly don't think I know almost anything about Josh Ruggaboard except that she's on Josh Raghamore? Maybe.

Do we need to know more? Let us know, guys, if you think we should. What if it's only, what if it's like we learn only horrible things about her? That would be very upsetting. It's throat in an alleyway in 1942. I don't know when she was on this. She killed Batman's parents. She was the one in the back alley.

Little Richard also, when he falls during ice skating, he just kept asking, do you want me to scream like a white woman or a black woman? That's just so fun. But it was great of how many people that were contacted that not only wanted to do it, but I believe it was Whoopi Goldberg that came out that, like, asked them if she could do it. Well, then they make a bit about it on the show.

Yes. Where she's trying desperately to get on. He keeps going, we have too many people who'll be maybe next year. And she's like, okay, maybe next year. And he says, maybe next year. Bye. Now, so after all this time, of course,

Peewee's play was such a huge part of all of our lives growing up. And this is around the time when he starts winding it down. Now, Steve Binder, who was one of the producers of Pee Wee's Playhouse, starting in the second season, really wanted to talk to the reason of why he had decided to stop. So he said, I think the show went off air because Paul only saw Peewee as a character, and he didn't want a career of being Peewee. He saw his career as more Charlie Chaplin. He was always fighting everyone on making more episodes.

He was offered millions of dollars if he could guarantee 65 half hours and turned it down. I think that I see that you're about to talk about it being a very positive show, and we talked about that before, where his main goal was to, what was it, the Golden Rule? Treat others as how you would like to be treated. Treat others as how you'd like to be treated. I think that it really was very successful in that. And as a kid, I really connected to that and watching it now. I still was so charmed by him.

And in reference to that Christmas special, I think that was. was a great example of how they worked diversity into the show really seamlessly and flawlessly in a time when most people in the entertainment industry were whites, white dudes, and it wasn't something that was being discussed as much as it is now, and they just did it anyway. And it was really cool to watch that and see that we had that growing up in this show where they brought in not only these really awesome women, but like different people of color. There was a lot of Spanish and Mexican characters and them actually speaking Spanish.

And also women doing fun character roles. Totally. Which is a little kid, like that was what was huge to me is it was like, oh, I can be that. Like, I want to do that. Yeah. And I know that we'd say, of course,

Catherine O'Hare was such a huge inspiration to be growing up of someone that was doing character, like a strong woman that was doing a bunch of different characters. But Bewey's Playhouse really brought it home of that you don't have to be a sex symbol or be, ugly to be funny. You know what to be? Yeah, there are women in his show. And this doesn't sound that revolutionary at the time,

but it was in the 80s that, like the women characters, a lot of them had jobs, like the male lady and stuff like that. That was something that it was really good for us to see as little kids, truly. Which he actually changed from the original production because he didn't, it was a male man, he changed

to a male lady, and that was Paul Rubin's wanting to bring more women on board. Yeah, which I love. So rad. And also, before we get off Pee-wee, there were a couple people, like we mentioned, Lawrence Fishburn, that was one of his, you know, notable roles as he was becoming. But did you guys see who was on the very first episode? Natasha Leone? Yes. Oh, my God, little baby, baby. Natasha Leone was in the first episode. And she threw out the bunch of other episodes, yeah. Super weirdo immediately. You can already tell she's a weirdo. And then I was watching an interview with her, and she was basically going to be talking about her young role. on this interview on like movie buzz or whatever one of those websites and she was dressed as Natasha Leon does in you know a wacky outfit and she had these big white framed like tinted glasses on during the interview and so the first thing the lady brings up is like I want to talk about

Pewy's Playhouse and they cut to the clip of her in the very first episode of peewee and she is not only dressed almost exactly the same she is wearing huge white white-frame tinted sunglasses in the scene. And she's just like, oh, I guess I didn't really change much, huh? That's hilarious. I love her. And what I love is that Wayne Orr, who was one of the directors of Pee Wee's Playhouse, went out of his way to say that Paul Rubens was nice to everybody,

but to kids, he was an absolutely nice host. He would be Pee-wee most of the time, a very calm Pee-wee and would show them around set. He deserves real kudos for that. And I love that it wasn't just like, bring kids in, stick them where they got to do it. He was very involved in the kids that would be on, including the goalie from Mighty Ducks. I forget what his name is. Also the little kid, they talk like this. And he's very, very cute.

And another part of all of this in this transition is that Paul Rubens even had control down to the merchandise that was made for Peewe's Playhouse. So Karen Lyons, who's one of the designers of the Terry and Chair. Terry Toys, who was also a huge fan of the first season, got brought in, and Paul Rubens said he wanted toys that were original. Cherry had to talk and roll her eyes, and Terry had to have wings that flapped and eyes that moved. And it was a huge challenge for them. As well as on top of the fact that he insisted that the 18-inch talking pee-wee doll should not be battery operated. He wanted it to be usable by all children.

Pull-string toys don't require batteries. So they had to go back to an old. And it's also keeping up with the aesthetic, like the 50s, 60s aesthetic that Pee We Herman lived in this realm. But I love that he wanted it. And they were like, I guess we'll go back in time and make it the way they used to make it. And pissed all of these people off. It's what he wanted. So that's what he got.

And you know what? A lot of people have been sending us Instagram stories of their own, they've been tagging us of their own either old pictures of them with their peeways. Or some people have new collected like old, you know, They're old toys, but they have them now. And man, those toys are cool as F. I am so jealous. I wanted that cherry so much growing up and someone tagged me in that picture. I know.

I always wanted that. I forget their Instagram handle. I'm sorry, but she had a photo of her and she had the cherry chair as a child. And I was just like, what nonsense is this? Oh, my God, I want it. I want it now. Can you imagine? I know.

So the show ends up running for five seasons with 45 episodes from 1986 to 1990. And once he got to 1990, he just felt that, quote, it was time to take a year off. And at the end of that year, he then, quote, I decided I was going to take a second year off. That I guess he was just probably hit that wall, hit that point where he needed a break from the character. And also good for him. He was traveling. He went to Italy. He went to Hawaii.

Like he was writing and also taking, he was doing self-care for the first time in the minute. He did. I mean, he was working his fucking ass off on that children's show. That, I mean, more than I think any other project he had done with Pee Wee up until that point, it sounds just like he was relentless. And the quality showed. The quality showed on the show.

Yeah, he talked about how he was a total perfectionist about how he, you know, he had to have this control over every element of it. And of course, after five seasons, 45 episodes of that, just nonstop, he had to take some time. So it makes a lot of sense. And also during while he's making Pee Wee's Playhouse, he also did make Big Top Pee We. Let's talk about it. Big Top Pee We definitely, we have rose-colored glasses when it comes to this film. Guys are getting really defensive about this.

I think maybe I am, but I watched it again. And I was like, so in watching both of them back to back again, because I think that you'd brought this up last time, Nat, I think in our home growing up, we watched Big Top Pewey as much as we watched Pewy's Big Adventure because it was on all the time. And so whenever we would watch Big Top Pewey, then it's like, let's watch Peewey's Big Adventure again. And it was like, what that VHS in. And I, you know what, I will say it.

You know, it's not as good as the first one. Well, there wasn't any Tim Burton. No, and it's a huge, and it was a whole different other, it's a different side of peewee that we'll talk about. that one of these, a writer of Rolling Stone was talking about the three different versions of Pee Wee Herman. So there's stage Pee Wee Herman, which is way more raunchier and crowd-oriented, right?

Then there's television show Pee-Wy-Herman, which is like a loud, obnoxious train of Pee-Wy-Herman. And then there's the movie, Pee-Wy-Herman, which is like all of his movies, he's way more subdued and in control. So this is a full other faction, like a whole other side of Pee-Wy-Herman that we had never seen,

before in Big Top Peewee and you're right it's not the one that we grew up with but also Chris Christopherson's in it and a bunch of

there's so many cute animals and they sleep in beds and he's got a little pig sleep in beds I think what makes Big Top Pee we

just feel weird is and then they do mess with this element of him in the first film but it's more for comedic relief and it's not the focus

it's the focus on the love triangle that's what I think threw it off a little bit it just feels this is just too much of that. And it is kind of

funny to see, you know, I'm a loner, daddy, a rebel, like that is great. Because you want him to be, you don't want him to have sexuality. You want him to be genital-less. He's an asexual creature. Yeah, even if a woman does fawn on him, he sort of is like in his own little pee-wee world.

Whereas here, it's like, oh, he's like, really this is like a romantic comedy almost. Well, and Paul, and Paul actually had, you know, he talked about it. Jackie, I think you have like a quote, don't you? Do you have a fun juicy quote? No, no, no, because I want to talk about his sexuality and how this was really brought out in this.

Because according to Scott Wilson, an associate producer of Big Top Pee Wee, Paul had a lot more autonomy on the second film. It was different when we were at Warner Brothers and he hadn't made a film. There weren't yes men on the first film. So with this, Paul Rubens wanted to bring a grown-up side of Pee-wee into it,

which I will say grown-up with air quotes, because he definitely, you know, was trying to make out with his fiancé by just rolling on top of her in front of children, which I thought that was very funny. And I think that growing up, I'm fairly sure I thought that that's what making out was. I thought it was just rolling on top of someone.

That's my thing. There goes Jackie. That's why we hire all those children to follow you and Jeff around. Yeah. Yeah, and Rubin said also that, you know, he was listening too much to his critics for this one with the quote, I've learned that lesson already. He was actually talking about this, I believe, in reference to going into Peewee's Big Holiday.

But regardless, a lot of critics had a lot to say about my relationship with my girlfriend in my first movie. A lot of people wrote, Peewee doesn't seem to like his girlfriend. And so I thought, okay, I'll show you. I'll have two girlfriends in my next movie, which says that's not really a good thing. And no one wanted to see that. No. So that was a really good lesson of not listening to critics.

You just do what you want to do, which is something I've always, always felt deep down. And I think I'm a good example of it. I will say the choice, oh, he's dismissive of his girlfriend. Now we'll give him two girlfriends. That is like a double negative in terms of solving that problem. I love it because it's also so he, so Paul Rubens wrote this with George McGrath, who he'd been working on for most of his other projects. And what McGrath had said, especially about the kiss, which you know what, growing up,

I didn't realize it was that long of a kiss. I just really wanted to kiss someone next to a waterfall. It had the record for longest on-screen kiss at the time. It did, though, but apparently George McGrath said the only thing that Paul definitely wanted to be in the script had very little to do with the circus. He wanted the longest screen kiss

in movie history. I think he wanted it to be the answer to a trivia question. Now, it had originally clocked in at three minutes and 16 seconds, but was edited down to less than two minutes, which eventually, though, did defeat the purpose because it still

wasn't the longest theater kiss. Oh, okay. So then it's just a very weirdly long. Yeah. Because they're not even making out. It is just, you just face, lips. It feels like a metaphor for what was wrong with that movie.

That line. Yes. Just out of place. It's like, oh, I guess we can do this with peewee, but it just doesn't quite feel right. It's not quite a joke. It's not quite this. You know what I mean?

It just all, it sort of falls weirdly flat, even though you kind of get where they were trying to go with. I think it was also them trying to take the sexuality out of it because it's not a sexy kiss by any means. No, it's not. But it didn't really work. Well, it kind of is at one point she like gets on all fours on top of him like. Oh, yeah.

That was, yeah, that was like, whoa. Yeah, that's, yeah. It's a lot. And also, I think that there were some issues according to George McGrath. I keep wanting to call him Mark McGrath, but I know that's a very different person. This is George McGrath. Angel's want to fly We do all want to fly

So does peewee He does So Paul No Mark No George George George Regratz George McGrath

And said that he thinks Some of the Some of the issues With how it had come across How did it do with casting He said Paul's insistence On having Italians Cast in any role

That had an Italian last name Was a mistake So much of what was funny in the script was barely understandable in their hands. But the worst miscasting was of the elderly townspeople. They were supposed to be Margaret Hamilton-type villains and could have been cast with younger character actresses. Instead, they cast a lot of very sympathetic, really old-looking women who always seemed to be victims.

You ended up hating pee-wee for being mean to them instead of vice versa. So I can see that maybe as an older person, because now watching it, I get that. But as a kid, I was just like, fuck those ladies. Yeah, get those ladies, blow them up, pee-wee. It's how to hate old ladies. And maybe that's where it comes from. Maybe it's all Pee-Wee-Herman's fall.

When's that scene when Sugar Ray shows up? I just want to fly. No, no, I don't got a flat. So the movie, this is really the first big misstep for Pee-Wee-Herman and Paul Rubens. And this is kind of the beginning of the fall, one might. think of Pee-We. What year did this come out, though? Because, I mean, he was still flying high with... 89, I believe. Playhouse at the same time. So it wasn't like he was like, oh, this was this tragic decline or

whatever for him. But still. Eighty-eight. Yeah. But that's... Because he was still in the heyday of Peewee's playhouse. So he just went right back. Yeah. This also, it was a, they didn't do that great in the box office. Because it was up against who framed Roger Rabbit. And a fish called Wanda. It was like a big... I mean, those are two. Oh, and I, and I Oh, I love Roger Rabbit. It's so good. It's so good. And especially if you watch them back to back, you're like, well, I mean,

one is obviously a bad movie, unfortunately. And so Paul Rubens, though, because one of the huge differences between Pee Wee Herman as a character and Paul Rubens as a person is that Paul Rubens was a very sensitive person. And he was devastated by the audience reaction of this movie. And I think that this really plays into a lot. of the changing of ending Peewey's playhouse and wanting to, it's like, all right, so he's still in the heyday, but he still did Peewey's Playhouse for another year. And I think by the end of that, he was just like, I need to put this character to bed. I have run it into the ground. I need to

take a step back from it and reassess what's going on. He was getting, if he wasn't 40 yet, he was almost 40. And I imagine it was, he made a joke on some interview I saw where he was saying, eventually Peewee's going to have to wear a turtleneck if I'm going to play this character. Yes. Referencing like a baggy old old man neck. All right. Which also speaks to later on when he does the last movie where he has all the digital age technology put in. All right.

This is where things get sticky, pun kind of intended, but not really. In July of 1991, this is he is on hiatus from Peewee. Which he does refer to solely as the incident, by the way. He's visiting relatives in Sarasota, Florida, and he is arrested by undercover police when they found him masturbating in a pornographic movie theater. An adult pornographic movie theater when he was staying with his parents in Sarasota, Florida.

This is a huge part of the incident. Yes. He was staying, and you know what? I'm going to go ahead and say it before we get even further into this, that he's technically a better man than I am. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yes. He went out of the house to go watch. He went to where people go to masturbate. Yes. I mean, what are those theaters? That's what I always say with this. That's what they're going to try not to like be too opinionated during this part. But to me, this specifically is like, I just, what were they there for?

It is the weird, this is like the, to me, it is, again, speaking of metaphors, I feel like the pornographic movie theater is the perfect metaphor of like the hypocrisy of America. Exactly. Where you could go and do this, like, what are they supposed to be there for? You can't touch yourself. You can't have sex with another person in there. You can't. So what is the point? Truly, to me, one of the weirdest parts of this whole story is that we live in such a puritanical sex depraved country that police were raiding an adult theater to arrest people for watching porn.

So they're sitting in the back of the theater. Adult porn. It's not weird. It's not like they were watching. like snuff films or something. It was just fucking adults fucking each other. And unfortunately one of the issues is that Paul Rubens and I think

this is part of why it got so blown out of proportion is that he attempted to bribe the cops. But it wasn't even a bad bribe. It wasn't a bad bribe. He had said which he'd offered to perform a children's benefit if they didn't arrest him. He wasn't even try

try and like even in according to the LA Times even the writer had said we'll never know what might have happened if Rubens had said, I'll give you guys $10,000 each to forget about this. But no, he doesn't do that. Instead, he offers to perform a benefit for children. Arrest this guy, they ought to give him a good citizens award. I'm just saying.

I'm just saying. We're not choosing sides from, just saying. Just saying. But I will say this, this is how why, another reason, though, why this fully blew up the way it did. Not only was he a host of a children show a couple years before, and he was pee-wee and everything, He'd also, this whole time, been working his ass off to convince the public that he wasn't a real person. So the second that the world sees this mugshot of Paul Rubin's with long hair looking scruffy, it's like completely reality-shattering in this way that actually worked against him.

It was almost his performance art being such a success as it was fucked him over in this instance. because no one, yeah, no one was acquainted with the real person. Paul Rubens actually does a really good interview in 2011 for South by Southwest, where he brings up the mugshot before, they weren't even going to talk about. He brings it up and he's really eloquent about it. And he basically says that. I think that the reason my mugshot really did this damage is because I made myself Pee-E-Herman so deeply. Yes.

The stark contrast really freaked people out. And that when his next role came in, which was Buffy, he immediately jumped into Buffy because he was offered the part. And he just told them that his one stipulation is that he wanted his character to look as much like his mugshot as possible. That's amazing. And also, I do find this part interesting is that Randall Kleiser, who was the director of Big Top Peewee. Also known for Greece, by the way, as well as, which he needs. got from directing John Travolta in the boy in the plastic bubble. And I just want to throw that out there because we definitely did an episode on John Travolta where we talked about all of that.

So he thought that maybe the 91 arrest gave him an opportunity to evolve. He said in a way, fate may have stepped in to help him change his direction. People forget that the original Pee Wee Herman used to put mirrors on his shoes and look up girls' dresses. He has a wonderful sense of humor. And I think what he's probably going to do now is reinvent himself the way that David Bowie and Donna do from time to time, which I mean it is, if they're given an opportunity, this is definitely it. Yeah. When asked what he was thinking, he said, well, obviously I wasn't thinking, you know, I certainly wasn't thinking to myself, you're a children's show host, your show is still on television. I wasn't making those lists. I feel like they were insinuating like, well, I was

sitting in, you know, a darkened movie theater in my pee-wee suit. And also, he said, I mean, that didn't seem like a crime to me. It didn't seem like anyone's business but my own, the incident. He becomes the butt of a joke countrywide, maybe even worldwide. He's got, you know, Jim Carrey's playing him on in Living Color, doing impressions, poking fun at the incident.

At the same time, his show is taken out of syndication. Toys R Us is pulling his toys from the shelves. All these things. They're just trying to essentially wipe peewee from the marketplace. And again, we had mentioned that he was so sensitive and he had said, it was kind of like a mortifying kind of situation where I felt like, you know, people are laughing at me. I'm a professional comedian.

I've never claimed to be able to take it as good as I dish it out, ever. I mean, I'm just sensitive. So watching all that, I mean, even someone that's not sensitive, and I'm a very sensitive person, can you, I can't even know. I would, I don't know what I'd do. I would, I'd hide forever. I'd hide absolutely forever. I don't think it would have destroyed his career now,

if that same thing happened. No, but the reality is so different now anyways. Like, I mean, no one who, I don't even, I don't even know, I live in New York City and I couldn't tell you where a pornographic movie theater existed, which it's very sure. Streets just to be lined with them, you know? Like, so he entered a plea of no contest

and was ordered to perform 75 hours of community service. And this is why I bring this up. He also was ordered to write, produce, and cover the production costs of an anti-drug public service announcement and pay a $50. fine. Do you guys remember this PSA? The anti-crack cocaine. PSA, and now what they said in Rolling Stone magazine,

the one starring Paul Rubens as an in-character, Pee Wee Herman, was absolutely the weirdest. That nasally voice paired with unnaturally rosy cheeks doesn't lend a lot of authority on what's glamorous, quote-unquote, or quote-unquote, cool, because he's talking about crack cocaine, and it's a very serious PSA, which, of course, it should be.

You know, it's trying to get kids to not do drugs. It's just, you know, You know, they told him to make it, and man, he did it. They just, they had scared the shit out of me as a kid. Those public service announcements were so weird in the 80s. And this was also, on the sidebar, this was the same era as the satanic panic. And they had, they had PSAs on TV that were kids characters, including cartoons like Yogi Bear, telling parents to ask their kids if they were being molested.

Wow. So weird. If you look that, you have to look them up. They're insane. I feel like I have my bears. Yogi bear is telling parents about making sure their kids aren't getting molested. Don't touch me in my pickerick basket. I mean, that is what was happening.

You have to look it up. I will. Also, he does come out of hiding in a really cool way for the 1991 MTV Music Video Awards on September 5th. And he comes out and he asks the audience, heard any good jokes lately. And he ends up getting a standing ovation. and it is a sweet moment, but it was a very small, not really a comeback, but at least he owns it a little bit. With the cool kids, because the cool kids are like, yeah, obviously, it's not a big deal.

Yeah, and a bunch of stars came out, Jiao Jaya Gabor, Cindy Lopper, all these people. Phil Hartman, too, right? Didn't Phil Hartman make a statement? And then Foonicello? Yeah, Sinai Lopper, yeah, totally. So, but in general, for years after the incident, if someone asked him to say a pee-wee line or anything like that, he'd just respond, I'm not doing Pee Wee Herman.

Over the course of the 90s, he makes appearances in stuff like Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, Batman Returns. Which he does. In Batman Returns, he is playing the penguin's father. Tucker Cobblepot. And the mother is played by the woman who plays Simone in Peewey's Big Adventure. Awesome.

And so it's because, so Burton cast him, obviously, is the penguin's father in Tucker Cobble Pot. And also later on, he played Tucker Cobble Pot in the television show golf. Tubbo-Cop-Coppel-Bot. I always loved the name Tucker Coplepot. It just makes me think of Goonies because Chester Copper Pot is the treasure finder. He has a big breakout role also in 2001 with the drug movie Blow.

Oh, yeah. That put him back on the map. But then in 2002, tragedy strikes yet again for Mr. Rubens as his head. House is raided by the police who had a tip that he had child pornography. They seize a bunch of stuff and he is arrested again. Later, the district attorney, though, found no grounds to bring felony charges against Rubens, which I think is really important over what they found. Rubens is a huge collector of memorabilia and these were old kitsch photographs apparently

and vintage erotica that he claims is art. And he also, yeah, and he had a copy. He basically collected erotica and he had a copy of. of Roblo's sex tape, which they were originally trying to charge him with that. But it was not, it was something that was just a part of history, really. And this is the same time with the whole Jeffrey Jones incident as well. Jeffrey Jones, who actually had a deep sex crime in modern times and continued to work after that.

And according to Paul Rubens, the police had been given a false tip in an alleged sting operation and came to my house. They thought the wrong thing, and they were there for the wrong reason. And when that became clear, they should have left. Or they should have taken all my computers like they did, but spent three minutes looking through them and realized they were wrong. The state eventually realized I had nothing offensive, but the city attorney decided to put me through three years of hell anyway.

In order to avoid court, he pleads guilty to possessing obscene images of minors. And, yeah, he said one photograph, for example, has a young man with his hand on his thigh. It is close to his genitals, but not even that close. That's what they're calling somebody getting ready to perform a sex act, just to put it into perspective. He also said, for the record, one thing I want to make very, very clear,

I don't want anyone for one second to think that I am titillated by images of children. It's not me. You can say lots of things about me. And you might. The public may think I'm weird. They may think I'm crazy or anything that anyone wants to think about me. That's all fine. as long as one of the things you're not thinking about me

is that I'm a pedophile because that's not true. And that's all we're going to say about that. We have to include in this, but we are going to move on. Moving right along to the movies that weren't that led to the movie that was. Now there are lots of, he had so many projects going on inside of his brain.

Yes, a lot of things. I mean, think about it. He's in this incubation period now. He's forced, like he took some time off, but he was probably intending on jumping right back into the pee-wee shoes and tequila dancing it up. And he had two different scripts completely written for two other pee-wee movies. So first there was Pee-wey's Playhouse The Movie, which was announced in 2006, which was to be about the characters of Pee-wee's Playhouse,

leaving the house to go to Puppetland and more in search for a character missing from their home, another quote, road movie. The specifics of it is that the movie begins on a normal day, with Kanky giving the secret word, and the king of cartoons coming over to screen a classic animated short. But right in the middle of the cartoon, the film jams.

It burns. It's blacked out. When the lights come back up, the king is gone. He's been kidnapped and is being held hostage for ransom by a character named El Chunky Boo Bobby. Love it.

And Chris Rock had promised to play El Chunky Bubabi. And I, now I must say this because I must see this movie. Oh my God. Riven said it's all the puppets, particularly the,

giant clunky puppets that should never be out of the playhouse on a full-on road trip epic adventure there's something funny about that right off the bat I mean cherry should never be out of the play out what's Jerry doing outside the house did you ever see follow that bird remember I love follow that bird I love the Muppet the great Muppet caper too I love yeah of course and the first Muppet movie is also another you know big road movie with with puppets but the first draft was actually written apparently back before the first movie and it was called Big Adventure. That is what he's purported. I don't know. I mean, I didn't see that up until this point. It all seems very all over

the place. These things seem to have been in development for years and years. And also, this is amazing. Rubin's plan to either play himself or he talked to Johnny Depp about taking over the role and he was like, I got to think about it. I love that. This is also the same time. So right after Big Top, Pee-wee flopped. Paramount killed the development deal they were working on with Paul Rubens to make a gangster film that he was working on called Pee-wee-Confidential. He was in talks with George McGrath, writer from Big Top Pee-Wee and Pee-Wee's Playhouse, that it would be a 50-style blaring horns and Pee-Wy would be involved with the seedy side of the city. So it would be like a detective Pee-Wi-Herman movie. I would watch that. That script is also written. So this is the third script.

Then there's the dark pee-wee film that I really wish we could be. It's titled The Pee-Wee-Herman story. It's largely inspired by Valley of the Dolls. Love it. Which is about the rise and fall of three women in show business, which is a crazy thing to reference for a Pee-We-Herman movie. And Paul Rubin said it's basically... But also perfect? Yeah, also kind of perfect.

He said it's basically the story of Pee-We-Herman becoming famous as a singer. He has a hit single and gets brought out to Hollywood to make musical movies, kind of like they did with Elvis. It all goes, it all kind of goes downhill from there for peewee. He turns into a monster, he does everything wrong and becomes a big jerk. And both of these films are being worked on at the same time. But they end up getting dropped to work with Jud Appetow on a more reality-based pee-wee movie, which we will talk about in just a second.

He also had lots of dreams of doing pee-wee land at this time. He had lots of ideas of making an actual, like a theme park called Huey. God, I would so go to that. And he said, I can't tell you much about it, except that it'll be a sort of version of Disneyland. He whispers as if unscrupulous competitors might be tapping the line. It won't be anything too fancy start off with.

Maybe like a miniature golf course and a giant statue. That'd be appropriate for Pee-Wee land, don't you think? Man, fuck that. Yes, fuck Model Land. I want Pee-Wi-Land. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Of course, referencing Tyra Banks's Harry Potter Knock Off Model Land, which I actually need to order it.

You just reminded me because I see. I don't want to read it. So before we talk about Pee We's Big Holiday, first there was the return of the stage show. And I remember when this happened. I was so excited. I watched it on HBO, and it was so fucking good. In 2009, Paul Rubens appeared in character on several late-night shows to promote the return of a live stage show. Demand was so high for it that they had to move to a bigger theater.

And the show opened on January 12, 2010 in L.A. with a four-week run, then went to Broadway at the end of 2010. I saw it. This quote gave me such chilies. So one of the puppeteers, Eric Kuska, said about being there opening night and hearing the roar from the audience when Peewee hits the stage. She was inside of Cherry. He said, we didn't realize it at first, but that wave of applause and love started 25 years ago. When Peewee went away, we all just went about our lives, holding it in.

But finally, there was a chance to have that release opening night, and it repeated every performance. Each audience had their own moment to go back to when they were on their living room floor watching peewee yelling and eating Captain Crunch cereal it was just amazing to experience that Can you imagine like also growing up with it and then being on stage and making it? Yeah he wasn't even supposed to be inside of Cherry

He was being a creep But then he was really glad he was there I guess I'll stay There were returning cast members such as Lynn Stewart as Miss Yvonne John Moody as male man Mike and John Paragon is John Be the Jeannie. And they also had several of the crew members as well as the musical composer

coming back to work on it too, which really warms my heart that they would really... It was a reunion in a big way, and I bet it was a very emotional, wonderful time for them. And it was filmed for an HBO special that you can still watch. It is so damn good. It is such a delight.

It's so good. You feel that excitement that you were just talking about really is palpable in that live show. And Rubens really wanted to, use this as a way to get another film off the ground. And it did. After seeing this show, Jud Apatow approached Rubens, because Jud

Apatatat had gone to the show to see it with his wife with the possibility of producing a third peewee movie. So it's like, talk about like that is just how, like that is beautiful, you know, just it's exactly what he wanted. Someone to come be like, I'll make that movie, sir, and it happened. Appetal

claims to have been a fan of Peewee since his dating game appearances, so pre-dating the adult live show, Apatow said, I just think there are very few characters in comedy history as strong and hilarious as Pee Wee Herman. The first moment you're sitting in a room with Paul Rubens and he starts pitching you things Pee We might say or do, you think to yourself, this can't be happening. The first time he put on the suit, I thought I was going to pass out. I love it. Also, Judd Apatow said about Pee We's appeal, it's a group of strange people who are having a

great time and being really nice to each other. And as a slightly weird kid, I must have understood that. I liked watching someone so different whom the audience loved. The idea that unique people were getting applause, that the crowd was going crazy for Pee-wee made me feel you didn't have to be the football team quarterback. Yeah, that's right. And I love to is that he had come to him. He'd come to Judd Apatow originally with the Pee-Wee, the Pee-We Herman story, that dark reboot tale of Pee-Wy-Herman that we were talking about.

And he really was trying to get Judd-Apita to make it. He's like, yeah, it's not like it's not exactly what he's not. I was looking for for a third pee-wee movie. So we got a movie's big holiday instead. Yeah, Rubens had this to say about first working with Judd. Judd said, first of all, I want to prove to you that I'm serious

longtime pee-wee fan. He pulled out some Polaroid pictures. He had taken of me at Caroline's Comedy Club at New York right before I made Big Adventure. I was staggering. I'm still floored by it. And so Appetow brings in writer-actor Paul Rust, who was in love

the TV show on Netflix to help write the script. Rust really just said he let Rubens really take over his peewee. Paul's instincts says Russ for this character and the universe he created are so correct. You just sort of follow his lead. It's like if you were working with Charlie Chaplin, you wouldn't go, you know Charlie, I don't think the little tramp would do that. So I like that. They really just gave him all of their resources, all of their time to let him really just do his thing. Paul Russ makes a cameo in it also. Yeah, in the diner scene. Now, so, So apparently Judd Apatow, who had worked with Paul Russ in the past, knew immediately that he and

Paul Rubens would be great writing partners, but Paul Rubens was skeptical. But after one meeting, he realized just how right Apatow was and then trusted him completely. Here's the thing, particularly in comedy, which is mostly what I have written. It's just lonely to do it by yourself, in my opinion, Rubin says. I think Paul has written a lot of stuff by himself. I could be wrong, but I think he knows how to do it more than me. I know how to do it, but I don't like it. comedy is fun. It's supposed to be fun, and it's supposed to be fun to write, and you're supposed to laugh while you're writing it. And doing that all by yourself is just sad. It's not as fun, and the writing of it is one of the greatest parts of the whole process. And now in the same interview, the interviewer asked Paul Rust, did Rubens provide you with a list of rules for Pee We Herman and his universe? And he said, nope. There are guidelines that he upholds, but it's less about rules and more about instincts and what feels right and what doesn't feel right. Rust reports. pointing out, we don't have to uphold some sort of Star Wars level canon,

which is another fun part too where it's like, it isn't brought back in of what happened in the first two. No, no. They just like it didn't exist. It doesn't exist. It is a, it's a new story. So I like that it's not, it's guidelines rather than rules. Rubens has talked about

I've seen, I saw quotes where he talks about how every time they do a new thing, it's like he totally resets the world. Right. So it's not yet. Like even in Big Toppeweewee, there was no reference to anything that happened. Total, total reset of the Let's see what we can do with him in this scenario without feeling like bogged down by the old stuff.

The director is John Lee, by the way, best known for his work on Wonder Shosen, which is a really solid choice, the adult comedy series featuring dirty puppets. And he was, of course, greatly inspired by Pee We when he was younger as well. I thought this was actually a really cute quote because John Lee was just excited to make something

he could bring his kids to. He said, it's not like, it's like my kids can't see Wonder Shosen or Xavier or the heart she holler, or certainly not Broad City, but if someday they will see all those things, I hope they get it. Or I hope they show me something stranger,

which I think is such a cute thing for a dad to say. That's sweet. You have Mark Mothers Ball also doing the score. I will say watching the movie, I had a nice time watching the movie, but there was, I feel like you shouldn't watch that movie right after watching Big Adventure. Definitely not.

You'll constantly be comparing it, and you'll just feel, I felt like it just didn't quite pack the punch that. No, the Danny. Elfman's score for sure added to that world so much. I love Joe Mangonello in it though. Oh yeah, he's great. What a little cute. Joe Maniello co-stars with Peewee.

It is this weird sort of kind of... Love interest. It almost feels like kind of a queer relationship in a sense, but they don't really like slap you in the face with it. It's very innocent. It's very sweet. And I love it. I love his energy in this.

He's just so... Jimenezalo. He comes to these, this like, bikers... Mangonello. Mangano, sorry. No, you're all good. He's like this biker stud kind of guy. And then he just, he's just like a boy through the whole thing. He's just waiting for pee-wee, when peewee

falls down the well and all he wants is root beer barrels and goes, root beer barrels. It's so adorable. And I really love that Paul Rubin's really wanted this story to be so simple, a child could grasp it. Peeway, who has been living in a small town and feeling stuck Meet a roguish Hollywood star, and for reasons we won't spoil here,

is inspired to go to his birthday party in New York. There's almost no plot, Rubin says. I love that moment of discovery when you're going, wait a minute. That's the plot? Joe Magnella, I believe, is also just a massive peewee fan. I'm sure. Like asking like a huge nerd, the whole movie because he was so excited. Well, as far as when you were talking about the no plot thing,

Rubens actually worked really hard with Netflix and the PR company to hide the fact that the plot was so simple and flimsy and also to hide the fact that there was an alien at the opening and that he takes a trip to New York. Those three things were really important to him to be surprised. Oh, yeah, the alien.

The alien's really creepy. Yes, it's very creepy. And also the fact that they, most of the money that they put into this. So this movie took, what, five years to make, six years in a long time. It was finally released on Netflix in March of 2016. Which is ridiculous. This goes back to what you were saying earlier, Natalie, about the turtleneck that they use digital technology to make peewee look younger.

You see, this makes so much sense because I saw this the second this movie dropped on Netflix. And I was just like, why does he look so weird? Yeah. And Paul Rubin said, I feel I'm too old to be in a Pee We Herman movie without it. Pee-wee doesn't work to me with age mixed into it. So I knew I wanted digital retouching. And that was my biggest concern from the get-go with Judd when it came to budgeting because it costs a fortune. I could have had a facelift and we would have saved $2 million.

No, face-lift would make him look really scary. Yeah. But instead, what they did is that they were talking about how they taped his neck back and tape. That's an old school. Yeah. And it's fun because it's like they had to be able to have that for like the scenes when, you know, he's like dirty. the shot where it's like you just see him from the side, but you can tell how much older his neck is.

And I mean, come on, give him a break. He's almost 60 years old when they shot that. And now he's almost 70. He's 70. Oh, man. He's 67. I will just say the movie came out. People were really positive about it.

I enjoyed it. Yeah, it was fun. It was really fun to see it again. Everybody obviously had a great time making it. And that came out. I don't know if you guys had any of your favorite. parts that he played in between these things, but I want to give a shout up for his appearance on the show 30 Rock, which is one of the best shows of all time. Oh my God, he's so funny in it. He plays

a character named Prince Gerhard Habsburg, and he is in full prosthetics, and he's got tiny puppet legs, and he's playing basically an inbred prince trying to, and one of the characters on the show was trying to woo him so she can become rich. So funny. And he's got, like, It's so funny. You barely recognize him and he's got like a one long tooth I think in it and Tina Fey's book

which is also again one of the best autobiographies all time, Bossy Pants. She talks about that episode where it was at the point where they were pretty sure 30 Rock was going to get canceled it was early on

and they immediately jumped the shark on the show. It's just an insane show and so they just took his character and went, they took it to 150 because they're like we're probably not getting picked up

but just do something real weird And it is so crazy. And it's a really, if you have never seen 30 Rock, I recommend you stop listening to this and go watch it because it's worth every second. A thousand percent now. Another thing that I'm hoping for the future, and I really, really, really hope this happens. So the dark Peewee-Herman movie that we were talking about earlier,

Paul Rubens is now pitching it to the Safdi brothers. Hell yeah. Who made uncut gems, so make those gritty dark movies. And they are apparently considering. making the movie, which is again the Gritty reboot that takes the children's entertainer and throws him in a mental hospital to receive shock treatment for alcoholism.

I need this movie. How do we get this movie made? Let's write letters. And to the point that even whether, no matter what, Paul Rubens is like, even if it's not him playing Pee We Herman, like we were talking about with Johnny Depp, he said, I think actors are going to be obsolete really quick.

And part of me would love. to sell the whole thing. That would include my digital scans, a couple of scripts, some other stuff. I don't for one second feel I'm George Lucas, or that Pee-Wee Herman, the franchise is Star Wars, but it's worth something, you know? And I

feel like I could step away from it. I don't think I would want to watch someone else do it, although I would be interesting. Just watch somebody give it a stab, especially if it was a very dark movie. Oh, yeah. And if it was, like, I don't know, maybe Johnny Depp's comeback, who knows? I think it should be Timothy Shalama.

I'd be, shot up my not. I'd be cool with it if they really went full force on it for the performance. I'd love to see it. All right. I think that about does it for our coverage of Pee Wee Herman. This was such a fun one. I had such a good time. Talk about kicking the nostalgia pants that this past couple weeks has been. It's been so much fun. And I hope this put a smile on your guys's face too. And again, all of the Pee We's Playhouse is all on Netflix. And I have just, I've just had it on in the background. It just makes me happy. I know. It just brings me so much joy. The set design is just so, I think it has made me who I am visually, and my house is going to end up looking like that at the same point in my life.

We hope so. Big dreams. Thank you guys so much for joining us. We will be back next week. And my name is Jackie Zabrowski, and you can follow me on Instagram at Jack That Whirm. My name is Holdennyly. You can find me on Twitch. Dot TV for Holdenators Ho doing Twitch streams on Friday night with Jackie for Jack and Eve.

That's me. That's my name. More importantly, Patreon.com forward slash page 7 podcast. We do weekly episodes for just $5 a month. Check us out on there. Natalie. This is Natalie Jean,

and you can follow me on most things, the Natty Jean, and you can also follow page 7 on Instagram at page 7 LPN. Yeah, we love you guys. Bye. Bye-bye. I know you are, but what am I?

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