Page 7 - Pop History: Romy and Michele's High School Reunion

Episode Date: August 18, 2020

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I can wait, I get there, and you will fapt to time. If you back. You were going there next. Time after time. I love that song. And I love Cindy Lopper. And also when watching this, I immediately thought, if we three don't do this dance, are we even a broadcast? We should.

We should definitely do the dance. See, this actually works out great because I know that we're going to get into the part of Romi and Michelle, where they have their weird dance at the end. Because this makes sense because you would be. the Mira Sorfino because you are also a dancer and I would be the Lisa Kudrow who openly said I don't dance which is why she did the poses instead and then you know Holden is Alan coming because I've resembled him in many ways uh yeah I swear it is I have had a crush on Alan Cumming since the beginning of times I was going to say that it was you know what it was for me it was when he was in cabaret and I was like oh I'm sexually attracted to this skinny game man

Yes, yes, yes. Except that you can definitely see when he kisses Lisa Kudrow. That is, although he can definitely, he's very good with his American accent as this was his first movie in the USA. Yes, it was. I will say that he definitely can't, couldn't act his way through that kiss. Yeah. I definitely noticed it because of someone that would watch that kiss over and over again. Yeah.

Was it that part? No, I know a girl. Was the part where he ran into a shower directly after which I don't know why they kept that in the movie. like why would you put that in? He had a shower inside of the helicopter. It was actually very impressive because that means he's, if you have a shower inside of your helicopter,

that's succession level of rich. And I am here for it. Welcome, guys, to the Bob History episode of Romy and Michelle's High School reunion. Y'all asked for it and y'all are receiving. It is definitely, I know it's one of Natalie's favorite movies. Yeah, this is my favorite movies. It is, I love this movie,

Holden Sought for the first time. So I'm going through a bit of a face. right now in general where I'm going back and watching a lot of quote unquote girly movies from back in the day that I the the norms of the gender norms of my childhood kept me from feeling comfortable it truly enjoying we're talking I lately I what I watched footloose and Moonstruck and Lex's favorite movie growing up girls just want to have fun and I'm just having such a fun time and Romeo Michelle just fit right in with that I absolutely loved it I will say I texted you guys after I saw

But, and I will say, I wasn't fully sold until the dance. And the dance just filled my heart with so much joy. It's so weird. And I was just laughing so hard. And I was just so excited that it existed. There were a couple other ones, too, that really stand, that really make this movie be like, oh, this is something actually, like, completely different. And, of course, Lisa Kudrow's stunt on the limo is amazing.

Like, there's just so many weird things. That whole dream sequence in general, like, there's so many odd things about the movie. And we'll get into where that. came from. A lot of it was from its director actually, David Merkin. But there's so many just offbeat moments that movie that make it something unique and special and fun. That it's not just a normal. Oh, it's just girls going to their high school reunion. It's so much more than that. It's something else. There's something about the awkwardness of those characters that I really connected to as a young person. Even if I wasn't exactly like them, I could relate to them just

not really being in reality completely and just enjoying being in some other ethereal land all the time in their heads. I connected to that. It is weird because they are beautiful, but they're also outcasts. And that's sort of happening at the same time. It almost feels like uncanny value. You're like, but you two are like really hot, but you're also the weirdest. Yes.

I think that's why I came back around to this movie because watching it again in high school, it did upset me, especially now I understand the job. joke that Mierre Sorvino is the fat one. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Morbidly obese teenager, I was very upset because that she was referred to as the fat one. And now you see, oh, that's just a joke of what society. Right. That's that, that is the joke of it, is that she's nowhere near fat.

No. And whatsoever. And the fact that they were so beautiful. Right. Yeah. But at the same time, it's like as someone that, as I went on through high school, even though I was very overweight and very weirdly mean, I still had a lot of friends.

So on the opposite way, you can also be beautiful and not have a lot of friends, which I didn't understand that concept. I was like, no, I have to work to have friends because I'm fat, which is not true. But you know that high school brain where you're just like, but they don't understand what I go through. Yeah, I mean, high school, everybody's a monster in high school.

And that's what I love about this movie. that this movie really does show without the rose-colored glasses that high school is a nightmare. And not necessarily the people that you disliked, are they going to grow up and you hope that they secretly have a horrible

life? No, I've never done that. No, I'm obviously above it. I've never thought of... I've never fantasized about anything. I haven't looked up Facebook pages of people who were my bullies, who I'm just, I smile and smile,

and smile whenever their lives are terrible and boring. I've never done that. I know, in watching the movie, so I also watched with Jeff for the first time, and I was like, you know at least two Christies from your high school, though, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yes. The ones that are just very much like, I have the perfect life. And don't worry about me, no, I've got the 3.5 children.

And my husband loves me, and I never left. And not that there's anything wrong with any of those. things because it's put into us to need these things, unfortunately. But you go, you look at that person who's saying all those things, but they're acting out and being mean because they're not actually happy. Dead eyes, man. Dead eyes, man. And that actress, oh, I don't have her name on hand, but she, what is her name? Campbell. She's fantastic in that part. I love her. Playing that, that ice queen. She's so good at, oh, God, in the pastels. We will get into the colors of this movie, Them and the pastels.

Oh, well. Always made me just go like, oh, yeah, yeah. We're going to be revisiting somebody in the production side of things. From Clueless. Oh, yeah, baby. Julia Campbell, by the way.

A little bit of a callback. Julia Campbell. She's great. Well, and that's why I love this description of the movie. It says, Valley girls who loved clothes and shopping as much as Clueless as Cher Horowitz, but with considerably more sexual experience

and far less money. As Romans summed it up, a few scenes later. We're still single. We've been living together for 10 years. I'm a cashier and you're unemployed. Which I see, there's so many movies that this movie is compared to in all of the interviews about it. And I like that it is a mixture of dumb and dumber, of Wayne's world and clueless. And yeah, totally. I mean, it definitely is because you love these characters because they are so true to themselves. And I think that that is what originally people loved about the characters in the original play that they came from.

Yeah. And also, you mentioning Wainsworld, that is, I was so curious about how this movie came to be because it's so weird and it's so hard to get anything through production companies and producers that isn't just like a, like a, you know, basic template movie. And they were, Touchtone was looking for a female Wain's World. Right. Yes, and if Wayne's World really brought something so indie and weird and offbeat to the world of cinema, there's a couple things, though, and we'll talk more in depth about it, but then you also have, really this movie wasn't going to be made until Lisa Cudra became a big star and then said,

like, I refuse to make this movie unless it's the movie that Robin Schiff, the writer of the play. Yes. Yeah, that is going to make. Because she was a part of the play, right? She was, she's been in this character since the beginning. Yeah, can you tell me about the play? Oh, yeah, we're going to get. all into that. And I just like, I think it's fun to be able to see someone that gets really famous

that uses their fame to help other people. I, oh, I love, I love watching it and I love hearing about it as well, because it is so easy, I imagine, if you get that huge, like friends huge, that you can be like, oh, fuck everybody else. I get to do what I want to do now. But she brought everybody along with her with this. And also we will see when Touchstone tries to get rid of Robin Schiff as well from the movie, Lisa Kudrow's like, then I'm not doing it. And so it's just, it's beautiful. I love it when this happens. And what you're referring to too is that Lisa Kudrow's role in ladies room was her first like role in something. Her first audition. So it's remembering that. It's remembering that and staying true to that and grateful for that. Because it did actually, I think,

probably from the sounds of it, because they were such a weird hit that no one expected, like in this play, I think it probably led to some more work for her. And she didn't forget that, which is super cool. Lisa Goudreau seems awesome. Yeah, they both seem like they're pretty rad, ladies. And I will say this is definitely where I got most of my, not only am I in love with Janine Garofalo, but I want to be Janine Garofalo. And I am Janine Garofalo, and it really started with this movie.

Oh, my God, I love her part in this movie. Oh, and man, as someone that is, I mean, I'm over a year out of smoking cigarettes, but watching her, I'm just like, God, I fucking want a cigarette. Every once in a while when you see, I know you guys both used to smoke as well, when you see a character that you dig so hard smoking a cigarette and you're like, I mean, I could get back in. I probably won't die. Yeah, no, totally.

I don't, though. No, I'm glad you didn't. But, yeah, I missed that. I miss that. I missed the process of it, and then I think about, like, how much the taste make me sick. Even just watching her smoke it down for fast smoking paper. Fast burning paper. Oh, my God, we have a whole class full of inventors.

Let's jump in. Let's start talking about Robin Schiff, who not only wrote the screenplay, but wrote the play that the characters were in. Yeah, whatever. She was a writer-producer that started out in the biz as a story editor for Rags to Riches on NBC, a musical comedy drama about a self-made millionaire who adopts six orphan girls. The thing is that when I read this song, it was like, sex trafficking. It was me like, ugh. It sounds like sexy daddy war bucks.

Yeah. I looked it off. It looks so stupid. It looks so dumb. I guess I thought like Glee was so novel, but I think this was maybe a more popular thing to do like back in the 70s or 80s or whatever was to like do these dumb musical TV shows. Make up sick.

And then she went on to be the supervising producer on several TV shows such as Delta. Oh my God, is it the Burke or is it the airline? I don't know. What? Who gives a fuck? Either way. Meanwhile, she was a member of the groundlings, an improvisational and sketch comedy troupe based in Los Angeles, formed back in 1974. And it's there that she wrote a play called Ladies' Room and where she met one Lisa Gudrow, who would be a partner in crime for her for years to come. I will say ladies' room is chock full of as someone that has been, that was in acting school for a long time, great two people scenes, three people scenes because it's all in one location.

And I remember ladies' room because of this, because it's just people coming in and out that it does really, you can create quite a cool scene from it. I've only read it and I've done scenes from it. Oh, you've done? Oh, fun. And so, yeah, Romay and Michelle are like these side character, essentially the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of this play. They are not the main characters whatsoever. But they essentially just needed space fillers for when the main characters weren't in the ladies' room.

And it's at this pickup bar. And so... Yeah, I'll get into the plot of ladies' room when we get there. But I do want to talk about Lisa Kudrow because I had no idea. I had absolutely no idea that she was in college, to pursue neuroscience. Yes, because her- It's so funny how like all of the really intelligent actors

end up playing like the dumb-dums. Same is with Mirosorvino. That's what they referred to themselves on set. They referred to themselves as smart and smarter because Mira Sorvino also, didn't she have like her master's in Asian studies or something? She went to Harvard, didn't she? She speaks fluent Mandarin Chinese.

We'll get into her in a little bit. She's brilliant. She did this whole, had this whole other life before acting, which we'll talk about. But either way, Lisa Gujarro, born to Middle class Jewish parents in LA, went to the same high school, the same time as Ice Cube, E, and actress Robin Wright. She got a Bachelor of Arts degree in biology from Vassar College and planned to be a headache

like her father. Father was an expert in the headache and a very specific type of headache even and wrote papers and stuff. It's a whole thing. I'm an expert at causing headaches. Yeah. It was her brother's childhood friend John Lovitz who pushed her to give the groundlings a shot.

And it was her improv teacher there, Cynthia Zaggetti. who changed her whole perspective on performance. Her initial work there included being in an improv group with Conan O'Brien. Oh, my God. He's a spot. Yale? Harvard. He went to one of those ones.

Who? Conan went to Harvard, I believe. He was balledictorian. Because he wrote for the lampoon and stuff like that. Told Jin' Jan handsome? Yep. I just had a sex stream about him. Oh, I get it.

I definitely get it. No, that's important. As for early acting work, she did appear on an episode of Cheers and almost got SNL but lost out to Julia Sweeney. Her first act recurring role was on the Bob Newhart sitcom Bob in the early 90s. But still, she's at the groundlings. She's, you know, and she ends up doing this play that Robin Schiff wrote back in the late 80s called Ladies' Room.

And they actually, it was Lisa Kudrow's first audition ever was going in for ladies' room and she was recommended. because Robin Schiff also worked at the groundlings. And Robin Schiff said about the audition, she said, there have been a few people I've auditioned who went on to become big stars. And in every single case, you remember the audition.

With Lisa's audition, there was a little run in the movie where they talk about vomiting in public. And I'd written that scene. Remember that time I ate bad Mexican food? I hate throwing up in public. Me too. But the way Lisa said it was,

huh, me too. And she says, it gave me the foundation for the character, because it made her into the follower and gave me a funny thing where you could say, my underwear is riding up my butt crack. And the other one go, me too. And so even just Lisa Kudrow doing that gave them more depth, even though these characters

were just supposed to be blips in the rest of this play. Yeah. So she said, so I came up with the three characters of three waitresses, and then I thought, who would go to a pickup bar? because it was set in a Mexico restaurant pickup bar called the green enchilada. What's a pickup bar? You know where you go and you pick up

you know what it is. You know what it is. You pick up smiles and you, but also what ended up with the actual part was, what the plot was about these ad agency women. There was the untrustworthy office queen

of trash, Kathleen, the newly promoted VP, Liz, and the Bimbo secretary Ellen, who gave up a career as a Playboy Bunny to move up to typing somebody else's ad copy. Things get as hot as the waitress's jalapeno's when Liz discovers, this is a New York

Times article reviewing ladies' room. Things get as hot as the waitress's jalapeno's when Liz discovers that the junior executive she's after maybe having an affair with Ellen. Yes, the same bimbo secretary. Things get hotter still when the unbridled Kathleen puts the guy on the hot seat. A position absolutely guaranteed

to compromise everyone. So we're all me and Michelle were just waiting in line to go to the bathroom. That's what their whole purpose was in this play. And really just to fill out the space. And she came up with the characters. She said, I used to drive down Sunset Boulevard and see these women standing in line to get into the club called naked players. And they were wearing outfits looking like they got dressed together. They were all wearing black.

And the first incarnation of Remy and Michelle, they were all wearing black in ladies' room. So she ends up going to a club to do research on these characters. and when she went into the bathroom, she listened in on the convo's. She said, I overheard these girls as they stood in the mirror at the bathroom saying,

oh my God, I hate my hair. Your hair, my hair. I would trade my hair for your hair in two seconds. Take my hair. There's a real... Take my hair. There's a real musicality to it.

I completely get it because I will say women's bathrooms are another world. I remember when we went to... I was on some smiley drugs at the time, but when we went to go see Lizzie, and I remember I went into the bathroom

and all of all of the people in the bathroom were talking about each other's outfits and like being really supportive and really positive with each other and they left the bathroom burst into tears and I meant it but it was in a happy way but again that was I think some of the other things that I was on at the time but I was

just so I was so touched that I was like what a wonderful beautiful environment to be a part of well that's funny at that Lizzo show when I walked into the bathroom it was just Karen and Georgia for my favorite murder in there randomly. And I was just like, hey, and they were like, hi. That's weird. We're all the same. We all love Lizzo. We all like Lizzo and go to the bathroom at the same time. And go to the bathroom. Aren't we crazy girls?

Are we? Me too. Oh my God, me too. So Robin Schiff also said this. Their life started because I could hear them. And it's the only experience that I've had of that, where I just heard these two characters talking in my imagination and decided to put them in different situations. And from there, And from their first entrance, they got laughter and applause, more or less as typical girls who might enter a club. But they've evolved so much since then. I also love, too, that Lisa Kudrow is someone that I've played bit funny characters and plays before. And God, it always makes you feel so great. Because Lisa Kudrow said, these two characters, we got laughs no matter whether the play was going well with the audience that night or not. That the two of them would go out, hit it hard, and then come on back in. And so during the play, Christy Mellar played Romi's part, and it wasn't Mirosorvino.

So when they eventually moved the characters from just a bit part into an entire screenplay, so we saw this with Wayne's World, how you have to flesh out the characters from a two-minute sketch into a 90-minute movie. And even Lisa Kudrow had said about the differences between the characters in the play and the characters in the movie, she said, for the movie, it was a different dynamic because Mirosorvino, was more vulnerable than the Romy from the play. And Robin had to fill them out. Robin Schiff, the screenplay writer. So for the play, Romy was played by Christy Meller.

And she's really good at being really bossy. And she's about two feet shorter than me. And it was just a very funny visual. But for the film, they needed a couple more sides to their personality. So Michelle couldn't just be a follower, even though she basically was. You know what? I can't stop thinking about a pickup bar. What is it?

Pick up bar? Is it? I mean, I guess pretty much most bars are pickup bars. Yeah, I'm asking you. So like during this time period, did they have bars that were specifically designated to go find somebody to have sex with? Or is this? Is it just saying this is like a sleazy bar? What I'm thinking of is, okay, think of the bar.

When I think of a pickup bar, I had a pickup bar in New York because that was the bar that I know that I could go to and go get late. Yeah, slippery sands. I remember slippery sands. You couldn't even walk in there. And I go, oh, where's my sodas and the peanuts on the floor? And then I find the peanuts on the floor and I start eating the peanuts. And then a guy comes over to me and goes, oh, are you a squirrel? I like how you eat that.

Yeah. Why don't you give me your nuts? And then we go away. Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. That's kind of what I was envisioning a pickup bar was. Just like a farmer. You know these bars, right? Yeah.

I used to go to this one bar called Salamander Gregory's, right? I'd go in there. Yeah. And there was a bunch of. Silent. Completely silent. It was a silent bar. It was completely silent bar.

You had to fart to get a drink. That's who they knew you needed a drink. It was so quiet. It was like if you were into farting, and that's the bar you go to to get picked up at. Or to get a drink. It just depends. Okay.

There was also what, there was a few different bars they used to go to. Come here to have sex bills. I remember that was a place. Oh, but never look the bill right in the eye because then he thinks you're there to have sex with Bill. No, no, no, no. I'm just here to have sex.

Yeah, he'll put his trance on. Yeah, he'll put his trance on. on you. Do not get him more ice from the basement. Yeah, that's not good. And then there was, don't come here to have sex, Jimathies, which I, I would only go there after six o'clock in the morning. I would always go there. There was my breakfast beer place.

And oddly, there's one called Jack in My Box that was not a pickup bar. Do not go there to have sex. No, no, no, no, no, no, they'll kick you out. No, they'll kick you out, but before hand, you're going to be traumatized. Wow. I do like this from Barry Kemp, the executive producer. One of the jokes from the original piece and how Robin originally conceived of the two characters in ladies' room

was that they were almost the same person. Each thought that the other one was the funniest person. They always laughed at each other. When no one else around them was laughing and the two ladies were almost a single character. When Robin did the movie, she started finding what made them different. And that would mainly be, yeah, Michelle being the follower and Romi being the super insecure person

trying to fit in. And of course, that is all going to come from this reunion layer that was not added yet until she starts working on a screenplay. But before the screenplay, we've got just temporary, which is Kudrow and Schiff's pilot they created about the two characters being employed by their straight-laced. Kujo and Schiff created a pilot, you guys. It's called what? Why are you laughing at me? They created a line and he can't see the line right. Right. Cudrow and Schiff created a pilot. It's called Just Temporary.

And it's about those two fucking characters being employed by their straight-laced roommate. Oh my God. Also, whatever. Jackie and whatever. Natalie, you're both in whatever jail. No. I think it's, it is, it really shows the fact that Lisa Goodro and Robin Schiff worked together so well that not only did. So they worked for years.

and Lisa Coudreau was part of Ladies' Room to Play. They took it. They wrote their own pilot. The pilot doesn't get picked up. And then, essentially, they decide to flesh it out. And Touchstone Films executives approached Robin Schiff about making a movie for the two of them, hoping that they would create, like Natalie said earlier, a female Wayne's World. What I do appreciate, though, is that, and it's sad that I was surprised by this,

I was delighted that the two Touchstone execs that approached her were women. Robin Schiff said these two female executives at Touchstone named Alex Schwartz and Gay Hirsch had gone up to see a San Francisco production and had been sent the play as a writing sample. They described it as a female's wane world and asked, would I come up with something for the characters? The characters, Romeo. The character, oh my goodness. Romeo! Romeo!

What are you talking about, Jackie? You suck at this. You suck at this. You suck at this. The characters, Romney and Michelle, whatever it is that had gotten created, capture people. And they did from their very first entrance. They're going to make it into a movie. And now I have something eloquent to say about the process of creating this.

Well, I will just state plainly. clearly that ship was reluctant at first feeling it wouldn't translate until she came to the conclusion that she would have them go to their high school reunion quote and it wasn't until they fill out a questionnaire when they realize their lives hadn't amounted to anything that seemed funny to me boom nailed it so eloquent I was like is that Shakespeare himself risen from the grave I wish Holden did all of the audio books I was I Which he gets, do every audio book that you've ever done, you mean. I wouldn't be a good person out that.

But when I went and took the voiceover lessons, this guy said I had a southern accent that I'd have to work with somebody to get it removed. I think it's very funny. And so I didn't pursue it any further. So whatever. Holden is a failure at voiceover acting. And I think it's funny because now his career is in podcasting. Yes.

Isn't that fucking the funniest most interesting thing you've ever heard? I have a big long quote about. the process. Shall I read it to you now? I do just want to say real fast that Robin Schiff really wanted the movie to focus on universal issues rather than the ones often more explored in female driven films. She've admitted that the details of the plot stumped her because she wanted it to be an overarching. So she didn't want it to just be Wayne's World, which as much as we enjoy Wayne's World, it doesn't really show a whole lot of depth to their characters, which,

you know what, straight white men didn't exactly need in the mid-90s. But I will say that. Hey. Yeah, you don't need it either hold, and you, I'm a cis that has cysts. You have pale penis, human. Pale penis? That's all I had to say.

Wow. I'm going to get through this and I'm going to make no mistakes. You better not. You better not make one mistake because we're watching you. Robin Schiff had this to say. The movie was in development on and off for five years, so I would write a draft, I would write another draft, and they wouldn't get it. You can imagine if you hadn't seen the movie just reading that stuff on the page,

you wouldn't get it because there's no jokes. Lisa Kudrow will get a laugh from saying, okay, and Stephanie Wall will get a laugh from saying, and yeah. So those didn't look like jokes, and they kept giving me. notes. The essence of the script never changed, but a billion details changed. It kept getting better and better and better. We kept getting notes from the studio. They wanted the ending to be bigger. And those are the kind of notes that drive you insane because it's a relative term anyway. Bigger than what? Bigger than a breadbox? So we kept writing different endings. At one point

they fired me off the movie and I was off the movie for a year. Lisa Kudrow and Janine Kuroffalo were attached and they said they wouldn't do it if it wasn't the original script. The thing that kept me involved with the project as much as I was, since I was also an executive producer was my relationship with Lisa Kudrow because their first role was in ladies' room. Wow. Nailed it. Oh, you did. Oh, now he's leaving. He's doing a victory lap.

Oh, God, he's got gym shorts on. I'm working out after this. I'm glad that you aren't just in your underpants, so. But I, again, I, all jokes aside about that. I just, special shout out to Lisa Kudra and Janine Garofalo. you just, you don't hear about that a lot. So it's really cool to see that kind of support and solidarity to get the movie made. Because I agree with you, Natalie.

There's something special about this movie. And it's definitely feels like one slipped past the goalie. Yeah. And yeah, I think it's like largely because of the people who stuck to their guns. Right. Oh, yeah. And even in, and Robbjiff admitted that she had a difficult time coming up with the idea that Romeo, Romeo, I'm always seeing Romeo. You've cursed me.

You've cursed me. DeCaprio on the mind. Well, we are doing Romeo and Juliet soon, so maybe that's why. I can't wait. That's going to be a good one. Robin Schiff had a difficult time coming up with the idea that Romi and Michelle invented postits. She says, I liked the idea that they would come up with something to lie about. And I literally thought of everything you could think of.

They're rock and roll managers, jobs they thought were cool. But there were problems with all of them. But the woman who invented white out liquid paper. made a gazillion dollars. So I started thinking, it could be something like that. And the idea of Romy saying she invented post-its made me laugh out loud.

And I... It's so much better than making it a cool job. It is, it's such a funny, silly thing. It's so funny. I need to talk about Art Fry. Art Fry is the scientist that made Post-its, and there is an interview with Art Fry about Romeo. Romeo.

It's about Romeo. It's weird because you can say Romeo. Just don't. I think it's because I say Romeo. Even if you say Romeo, just act like you didn't say it. But now it's in my brain. Now I'm mad about it. Because I can be like Romeo and Michelle, right?

It still sounds like Romeo and Michelle, right? But you know, but you, you, you listener, you hear me. I'm in your ear. You know when I say Romeo. And it's for you that I admit my mistakes. What did the guy say? in the interview. He said it was really, really cute.

And he said, not only had he seen the movie multiple times, but in the movie when Michelle says, ordinarily when you make glue, first you need to thermoset your resin, and then after it cools, you have to mix in an epoxide, which is really just a fancy, schmancy name for a simple oxygenated adhesive, right? And then I thought maybe, just maybe, you could raise the viscosity by adding a complex glucose derivative during the emulsification process, and it turns out I was right. He was asked to write this line, and he was also asked in the interview, how close is this to accurate when it comes to making post-its? And he says, it was completely bogus, and I claim credit for it. When they

were putting together the film, they contacted 3M to see if we would have any objection to it and ask for some technical sounding description they could use for the show. I wrote out a bunch of stuff that had nothing to do with Post-it notes, and they used it. It sounds more like something you would use to repair your broken dining room chair than the adhesive required for Post-it notes. But it's just so cute. That sounds like a different kind of glue. Isn't that funny?

I'm describing a different clue. Not the clue. It's just, the interviewer then asked, would you say you're more of a brainy worry-wart, Romy, or an easygoing roll with the punches machine? This man is like, I believe it this time was in his 80s. You said, I would say that I am a composite of the two, but not as pretty as either of them, probably a lot duller too. You might call me brainy, but easygoing and able to roll with the punches.

I'm not a worry, Wart, because I know there are many alternate paths to take in any situation where you are stymied. There is a good future out there. You just need to find it. Well, isn't it? Very positive. I fell in love with this man. I fell in love with him.

I just think it's a lot of fun that not only did they ask if they could use Post-its, but that the creator of Post-It was involved with the writing of this movie. Yes, I love that. Really? I also, before we move on to talk about this film's director, who I found to be fascinating, I did also want to just mention, it wasn't just Wayne's World that really helped them out. One other movie that we've done a pop history on already also helped them get this movie made, and that was clueless because at that time, they did, most exact were like,

female driven cast won't, oh, I've got my cigars too big for my mouth, right, right, right, right, right, you know what I mean? And whatever that kind of. This cigar is phallic, but I'm straight. Oh, my big, tummy rolls, roll over my, my peanut.

Don't bring up peanuts, because then I start thinking, oh, not peanuts. But, yeah. Yeah, you're giving them nuts. They were like weird and shitty about a female driven leading cast, and it was clueless, was one of the movies that convince them that, oh, maybe people do want that.

And also Titanic helped as well. And Titanic. It was women that were still going back again and again and again to go see both clueless and Titanic. What? Women? Watch movies? Who let them out of the house? Did they get permission from their husbands?

The Sin. Nah, must. Who let the girls out to the sin. What next? They're going to throw up sporting ball? Is that what they're going to do? after that, are they going to take a sporting ball and throw it in a field?

Yes, of course they are. Now I've heard everything. How do they get the dinners made if they were at the movies? Spending all the man's money. Well, speaking of a filthy man. Let's talk about this film's director, David Merkin. He was born and raised in Philadelphia and was interested in film and writing from an early age.

He first pursued electrical engineering, but hated it at, and decided that making no money doing something. This is a quote from him. Making no money doing something I loved was going to be better than making a good living doing something I didn't. And so he moved to L.A. and he attended film school in the late 70s. And he started doing stand-up comedy as well around 1982. And he becomes a regular at the comedy store and the improv, which are like the two places to be a regular at, even back then, even though it wasn't as huge of a deal as it is today. He got his first writing job for the sitcom 3's company in 1983.

And that's where he met his mentor, writer George Tricker, and found, He preferred writing character-driven comedy, and he essentially just masters the sitcom at this point. He, especially on the Bob Newhart show Newhart, which is a sitcom for surrounding that comedian. He goes on to direct several episodes as well, and I think I love this quote because I just think it really shows you like, how, like, this is the guy that made Romeo and Michelle.

He felt directing was, quote, a means of protecting the writing in order to, quote, see the material through its execution, especially the weirder stuff. You had to be right there to make sure every sick idea didn't lose any disturbing nuance. I love that. He is the reason he did help.

I think that he and Robin Schiff together made this movie stand out. And it's the working hand-in-hand with the writer and the director. And a lot of times even Robin Schiff said this multiple times of that, you know, usually a writer is not on set. Usually a writer is kind of, they try to keep them away so that they can do whatever they're going to do. But David Mirkin wanted her there and Robin Schiff wanted to be there.

They wanted to create this together to make it something that it's not just a whatever summer movie. You know who else made it something special was a Miss Mona May who did the costumes for it. Oh, yeah. We will get down there. Okay. Oh, yeah, baby. All right. I'm jumping in. Sure. To get Mr. Merkin up to date here, I will also say, here's another good example of like, this is clearly the guy that would make this. He worked with Chris Elliott and Adam Resnick to create Get a Life. The dark, surreal, psychotic version of Dennis the Minus is how they pitched it. It is like nothing else on television.

It's this rare, amazing thing that has a lot of diehard fans. It's just, it's very bizarre and dreamlike and all this kind of stuff. He also produced a sketch show I'd never heard of called The Edge, which had Jennifer Aniston. and a bunch of people we know. Yes. Now I would look into the edge. I don't know what that is. I want to look at the edge.

Pull up a cast picture of the edge if you can, Jackie to show Natalie. Because it's got, what's his name? It's got Newman from Seinfeld. It's got so many, I think a lot of people who were on Mr. Show with Bob and David. Oh, that's the movie, The Edge. Although The Edge, the Movie is great.

And The Edge was a rating success. That is, interestingly enough, until Aaron Spelling had a shit fit over a sketch mocking Beverly Hills 90210. Which I also find very interesting, though. Aaron Spelling was the head financier of ladies' room. Oh, weird. Yeah, so it's like it all comes hand in hand.

Huh. So the show, so, yeah, his precious, purest, sweetest daughter, Tori Spelling was on Beverly Hills 90210. They did a show sketch mocking it. And even though it wasn't fully attributed this, Merkin leaves not too long after the network wanted to reduce his budget to like nothing and he was just having too many creative issues. Then he goes on to become the executive producer on The Simpsons

during its fifth and six seasons arguably the show's best seasons. Season five in my opinion is the best season of the Simpsons. And this is what pushed the show into that more abstract surreal direction. Also he directed that episode that is playing in Romney and Michelle. That is one of the episodes

that David Merck directed. Yeah, the mechanics are watching. Yeah, the, Homer goes to space. And that is, again, considered one of the greatest episodes of The Simpsons of all time. It is phenomenal.

He did a ton of fun stuff. He, like, pushed the censors really hard on Treehouse of Horror. He got, like, as much blood and guts as he could possibly get in to those Tree House of Horrors, which, again, they were awesomely gory and ridiculous and over the top.

It was so fun. He brought such a cool vibe to the show, and I feel like he brings such a cool vibe to the film as well. Well, and that's why it's just so, it makes me smile so much that he really wanted to work specifically with fun.

women at this point. He said, I was working on The Simpsons. I was interested in directing something with funny women. And this script came along and I just loved the relationship that these characters had. And I saw enormous potential there. The script had been in development hell and stuck there for a long time and I had ideas. It still needed an ending. It still needed various structural things to happen. I went and met with the studio and told them that I wanted to do it. And they were incredibly supportive. And so I became attached. And around the same time, I became aware that Lisa Kudrow was attached, and I had known her and seen her before and was a huge fan of hers. That really made it even more exciting to me. Yeah, he also said this,

which I think is great. These are women characters we haven't seen before. I agree with this next statement so wholeheartedly. There are so few female buddy comedies written funny for women. Women don't get to do odd, strange, self-involved roles like these. Especially not at this point in time. And Andy also had said we wanted to make. It's changed. It's changed. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He says, we wanted to make a movie that was nastier than your average high school film. There wasn't even a happy ending. Not everyone gets together. It shows a lot of disillusionment. It shows a lot of problems. And it's really a precursor for things like Broad City and like, like, allowed to open the door for those kind of shows. 100%. They're like girls trip and things like that where it's like women can also be disgusting. And Melissa McCarthy, women can be disgusting too. Show all the warts, you know. To the point, by the way, where I firmly believed that this was a movie about, like, Bimbo's being dumb.

You know what I mean? Like, back when I was a kid and saw, like, the posters and stuff, I was like, ugh, this is just going to be like, I'm so, and it's like not that at all. It's really funny character parts that, sure, Lisa Guadro, like, plays kind of a dumb character, but it's not like, oh, watch the dumb-dums be dumb-dums. It's, like, so much more than that. It's really more about this great friendship. Yeah, it's more about their relationship than it is.

even though there's like love interests and romance and stuff, it's not about them finding husbands as much as it is as it is about their friendship. Right. 100%. Yeah, for sure. And just it's not a ton of like, look how dumb I am jokes. It's not really that. Or making fun of women either.

It's also not. I mean, it's making fun of more of the dynamic of high school life for sure. And in a time when I think that it was just really starting to show that not that the, popular people weren't always foul, infallible. Sure. And, I mean, I just, I really think also Janine Garofalo's character brought a lot to the movie. Like, her and Alan Cumming, Justin Thoreau. Made, mama me.

Well, this is great. Great segue. Let's talk about the rest of this cast. I will start, however, though, with Mirosurvino, our other leading lady, and we'll go through these, especially Jean Garoflo and Alan coming. We'll give a little background. And actually, right before Mirosorvino, it was supposed to be. originally Tony Colette who played Brumny Colette. I love

Tony Colette so much. David Merkin said early on I actually explored and did some stuff with Lisa and the wonderful Tony Colette who was coming off of Muriel's wedding which I loved. Tony ultimately decided not to go ahead. Nothing was official and you'd have to ask her but I think she was a little concerned with the accent

just nailing the nature of a valleyish girl accent at that point because she is, I forget if she's Australian or New Zealand. She also would have been young than them. Right. It was also speculated on the short list was former First Lady Barbara Bush.

That is until David Merkin. She was on the older spectrum of it. Yeah, he said, I didn't realize how fucking old this old woman was. But also, what a gas she is. I mean, you let her rip. And it sounds like she's farting all over the place. Maybe. She might be farting.

I don't know. He said, we met at the Beverly Hills Hotel. We did four to five poppers together, realized that we secretly thought we wanted to kill each other and called it off. I mean, it sounds fun. Sounds silly. Yeah. But that's when Mira Sorvino swoops in and gets the part.

Born in Manhattan, her mother was a former actress and her father, a character actor and film named Paul Sorvino. You would probably recognize him in the film Goodfellas. Who is in Romeo plus Juliet? Uh-oh. Oh, shit. He was raised in, she was raised in New Jersey. She ends up going to Harvard and studies for one year in Beijing, China, where she became

fluent in Mandarin Chinese. and graduated with a degree in East Asian Studies. Her first TV gig was for the teen series Swans Crossing, but it was the 1993 film amongst friends that put her on the map. And this is how you do it, ladies and gentlemen. She starts out on the movie as a third assistant director. She then works her way up to casting director, then assistant producer,

then ends up getting a lead role in the film that gets positive reviews and ends up putting her on the map. That's indie budgets for you, baby. You know, you'll find a way in there somehow. That is so crazy to me. That's like such a wild trajectory to go for third assistant director to lead role in film. Her role in 1995 Woody Allen film, Mighty Aphrodite as a happy go lucky sex worker is what made her a big star and earned her an Academy Award and Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actors. I've never seen Mighty Aphrodite.

So this is the movie I was talking about was my mom's sex talk with me. I was talking about how, and this is really creepy in hindsight, that both my parents' sex talk. were over Woody Allen films. Yikes. My dad's movie was everything you want to know about sex, we were afraid to ask, and we just sat down. He was like, if you have any questions, let me know. And of course, I just sat there and was like,

it is a funny joke, the breast that is giant, you know, because I was so, like, awkward. And then my mom did the same thing, but with my day after I, she was like, if anything they talk about this movie, if you have a question about it. And I remember one point, she was like, there was a reference to a blowjob, and my mom was like, do you know what that is?

And I was just like, yes, even though I didn't actually know it was. Wow. This is all very upsetting. Every part of this. What's not upsetting is that Mirzorvino took this role after just winning an Oscar. So when she was asked, she was quoted in the film's production notes of why she took this role after she could have done anything after this. She said, I was looking for something lighthearted and Romi was just the right role at that time. I didn't want my next project to be another tragedy or a dark story.

most of the comedies with female leads were rather generic. There's a soul to this piece, and that was the ultimate draw for me. The great paradox of these characters is that they are exactly all the things they say they don't like in other people. And while Romney and Michelle may seem a little unaware about life, their story is very real and told with great observation and much humor. And it fucking sucks because she's so great and she's so versatile in all of her roles, and she got blacklisted by Weinstein

pretty shortly after this. Oh, wow. I was wondering, I was like, where did she go? She was literally blacklisted because she wouldn't fuck him. And Peter Jackson attest to it.

I believe it. I believe it. Also, I would like to throw it out just to show her range because I loved her dialect work in this film and her whole thing, like the kind of like more masculine

sort of shoulders and like everything. Her role in Mighty after Teddy, she talks like this with a high voice and she's like, like this. Doing that low voice is just like, I think she just made a choice to do like the... I love it. I love her in this movie. Yes, she's amazing.

And that dialect work is so spot on and could not be... It just so weird. Yeah. It couldn't be more different from her dialect work in Mighty Aphrodite that she wins the Oscar for. Which just makes me love her even more. Because she talks like this. The whole time in Mighty Aphrodite. Like this high, this piercing, annoying.

To the point where I was almost like, this is this one in Oscar. this is like borderline like making me insane. Now that's the only way you can have sex, of course, is your partner has to go, oh! Oh! She's got to talk like this, but you put your penis in me.

Wow, Jackie, can we please calm it down a little bit? I'm sorry. I say penis. I say penis. Janine Garapha. Grew up all over the country, including California, New Jersey, and Texas, a place she didn't like much

due to the emphasis on prettiness and sports in high school. I just love that line because that's her character in the movie. I can't imagine her in Texas growing up. It's such a weird. I know, I know. She'd just catch on fire immediately. Garavolo said, I guess I just prefer to see the dark side of things. The glass is always half empty and cracked.

And I just cuff my lip on it and chipped a tooth. I remember her really being like a young teen and her stand-up being on HBO and just being a couple. being completely blown away because it was this woman who was just saying kind of dark things. You didn't see that a lot. A lot of female standards at the time were like, my boyfriend's being crazy. She also had their deep voice. She was my everything. I remember her talking about how the Bible was fiction and I was just like, whoa. That's crazy. That's nuts. Yeah, she gets her first HBO half hour special in 1995 and she also just does a slew of films in the 90s. I think we all know these reality bites, we should totally do an episode on. The Truth About Cats and Dogs, mystery men. Truth about Cats and Dogs. Mystery Men holds up. And so David Merkin, the director,

was quoted in the film's production notes in 1997. He said, Janine was the prototype for the part of Heather. If she had turned down the part, we would have been saying to every agent in town, get us a Janine Garofalo type for this role. We all got our dream casting. It was a fantastic experience casting the film. And also, so Robin Schiff knew Janine Garofalo before this as well. Robin Schiff said Janine was involved very early to play Heather. I had seen her many times at storytelling event called Uncaburray that was a precursor to The Moth. So I knew who she was. There was one internal reading where she did play Romy, but she was so brilliant playing Heather. We couldn't picture anyone else doing it. No, it had to be her. I don't know who else could have played

that. It had to be her. So, so perfect. Unless it was me at this age And yes, I will take the part Okay, we're doing the reboot I call, yeah, and I'll be Allen coming What do you want, Remy or Michelle, Natalie? Oh, God Michelle, maybe, okay, no, actually Roney probably.

Interesting choice, wow, interesting choice. Whoa, flip-flopper. Wow, bit of a flip-flopper, don't go into politics, so. Whoa, look at it. Wow. Then they're rounding out the cast. We've got Alan coming, born in Scotland.

I love him. I love him. I love him. I love him. Well, you would love to know that he was very heavily abused by his father. No. That's what he claims is how he learned to act. He should say thank you, Daddy, for giving me this acting career.

No! He, quote, needed to suppress my own emotions and feelings around him, referring to his father when I was a little boy, and that's how he essentially got his ropes. first ropes in acting. He started out in theater, television, and film in the 80s and 90s in Europe, but Romney and Michelle was actually his first film in the U.S., as you mentioned before. Yes, and he had said he was asked why he loved the script. He said there was a real wit to the script. It subverted the standard Hollywood buddy picture and made the stars two women.

I remember talking to Robin Schiff one day and saying, I'm the girl in this film, aren't I? And I mean, of course, that is a very 90s thing to say. But in the terms of these buddy movies, he is. I mean, he's kind of taking the Mickey out of that stereotype going like, oh, you're making me the girl, huh? Yes. And also I thought this was interesting. So Julia Campbell, who played Christy, was cast because at the time she was doing a comedy playing Kevin Neelan's wife. And David Merkin is one of Kevin Neelan's best friend.

friends and so he would come to the tapings of the show. She said after I got the offer, it got pulled because somebody at Disney, I don't remember who, said that I wasn't pretty enough. Then David brought me back for a cast read-through and I got the job. And this is another one of these parts of Hollywood that I love where she was kicked off of a show because she wasn't pretty enough. And David Merkin thought that she was hilarious and was like, why don't you come and read for this movie? Just from having seen her at the tapings. It makes me love the this person and this entire community that made this movie. That's a great thing to do because a lot of times people just get thrown by the wayside

because somebody decides you're not exactly what I want. And she's also, she's beautiful. What are you fucking talking about? She's just really, she's also just very, very good at that part. Real quick on Ellen coming, though, I wanted to throw in there. He has a bar called Club Coming or he did. I don't know if it's still in existence now with everything. You want me to go pick up somebody there because I'll do it?

I'm sure it's a big up war. But they have a, at a certain point, maybe they still do, they had a Romney and Michelle night once a week. And you would go in and it was all 90s music and they did like, they like had stuff on post-its and they had scar folding and shit. Amazing. I know. I'm very sad I had never heard about it until now.

Definitely go there. Definitely don't go to Finger Blast in Georgia's. Why wouldn't I go there? That sounds great. Because it sounds fun, but it's very. You got a stretch beforehand. They go for it there. Yeah, you just got to stretch it out a little bit.

Either way, pre-production was actually a very long and involved process. David Merkin said it was a very long rehearsal process. We took two weeks and it was basically Lisa, Mira, and myself in a room for those two weeks going over the characters, going over the scenes, and even beyond that. It was almost like a therapy session where we would have confessional conversations with each other, creating an atmosphere where anyone can try anything, say anything, do anything, and feel safe. in that environment. And it's also an environment, which is what I hope for, for Lisa and Mira, to bond and become friends for real outside of the movie, because then I get all kinds of

unconscious, subtle stuff on screen that shows how much they like each other and how much they're actually bonded in addition to the characters they're playing. So all that leads to something that can be watched again and again and again, and you always see new things. And there's a depth to performance and a subtlety going on in the filmmaking and the performances that you can watch over decades. And I do, because he's completely right. How do you take two people that don't know each other before all this and say, you've been best friends forever?

And I love that they took the time for them to become friends. And everyone on set talks about how like, they did. They became immediately very, very, very good friends with like immediate inside jokes and which they needed because what, and I never noticed it until I had read all of this stuff about the making of the film. that David Merkin really wanted the film to look like it cost a lot more money than it actually did. It only cost $17 million. And so what he did is he brought in a bunch of cranes to do crane shots. And even like in the opening shot.

Yeah, totally. And in the dream sequence and things like that. There's lots of crane work that they would also have to sit on set for a while and do the things over and over and over again. So that also helped Lisa Kudrow and Mirosorvino because. friends because they would just be sitting there joking around because it would take hours to get these shots that they would have to do over and over again. And they, they knew what he was trying to do because these sweeping beautiful shots in the movie. And we'll talk about the color palette of the movie as well. It's gorgeous. Hey, we'll talk about it right now. Yeah, the set

design and clothing for the two ladies was to look like a magazine about the lifestyle of Los Angeles with lots of primary colors and pastels. And as Merkin put it, quote, color everywhere they went. That's why even when they're doing their laundry, the The washers and triers are bright orange. Everywhere they went, there were great splashes of color that would interact with the outfits, of course, designed by Mona Mae. The lovely Mona Mae who did the costuming for Clueless.

Robin Schiff said that the color palette keeps the movie from feeling dated, which I definitely get. She says, the colors of the whole movie are so vivid, and it's not trendy. I think that's another reason why it helped. It was this alternate universe anyway. For sure. And that, I agree.

I think that's why it really is something that's enjoyable because it's not really a moment in time as much as it's a cartoon. Yeah. Right. And that's exactly what they were trying to do. Yeah. And that's what I love about the way Mona May designs the wardrobes is that it is supposed to be a place out of, a time out of place, basically.

To the point where when the dream sequence happens, I was like, is this dream sequence happening in a dream sequence? And then when they went back to, quote, the reality of the movie, I'm like, wait, isn't this also just like a dream sequence though? Like, it feels so weird. It's beautiful though. So again, Mona Mae was the costume designer for Clueless. She eventually goes on and does sex in the city.

She was legally blonde. But since Clueless came out right before this movie came out, she says, Clueless had thrown fashion towards something more fun, a girly look to a certain extent. But again, I was looking for something that wasn't happening on the streets of Los Angeles. I was looking for what was happening on the runway shows in Europe, what I could bring that was fresh and new to the film.

The way I look at film, every frame is like a painting, how the colors work, the extras in the background. How do they wrestle with what the girls are wearing? I want to make sure that if the girls are wearing yellow and green, that there's not a lot of those colors behind them on the screen. And even Luisa Kudrae goes on to say that the costumes were a third character for Romy and Michelle. Oh, yeah, man. And I really, I'm always immediately.

drawn to movies that have that visual appeal to them. Oh, yeah. And that's why I love what Mona Mae does. And I love that, like, so the fact that they were fashion designers and using what, it's the same thing that she did with Clueless, where these weren't just high fashion things that they were wearing. She would take thrift store stuff. She would take anything that she could find for cheap and then fuse them together like Frankenstein's beautiful, colorful monster and create these outfits for them. And Lisa Kudrow said, from the business suits that Romney and Michelle first wear to the reunion,

into the comfortable, quote-unquote, pastel dresses they later dawn. Kudrow credits the costume, hair, and makeup teams for making the film what it is. Still, she admitted that she had to psych herself up to appear on screen in just a bra and a miniskirt for one scene. Yeah, of course. She said, remember, sorry I forgot my top? That was tricky because she's on stage in a bra. And I do love what David Merkin continue on said. He said, I wanted to create a world where the girls lived inside the pages of a magazine.

We shot in places that were very strong in primary colors, and they dressed in primary colors. And I also enjoyed when Robin Schiff compares it to Peewee's big adventure because of the way it's shot and styled and how it's not trendy at the time, but it still stands out. Yeah. And you know, when you were mentioning, too, the dream sequence, the non-dream sequence still seemed a bit like a dream sequence. But then if you go back and look at the actual dream sequence, they do these little touches that you kind of have to look at. at a couple times, like on stage when she's in her bra, behind them in, like, balloon art is a banana and a carrot. And then it's the magnets that were on her back.

Which are the magnets. I noticed that. He also just like weird things and were like with the way he like floated out of the limousine like reminded me a hereditary. Like it threw me off. Like creeped me out a little bit. But yeah, Merkin actually made the dream sequence a lot more surreal apparently than it was originally written.

Which is I think is perfect. Also, the plastic surgery that Alan Cumming has is absolutely terrifying. I love it. It is Dick Tracy style. It is like full on very upsetting looking. And before we talk about the end sequence, I do just want to say that, and I didn't notice it until this watching of the Quentin Tarantino sprinkled into the set of Romy and Michelle. So there's the big Kahuna Burger and there's also a big advertisement for red apple cigarettes. as you know are the fake brands that Quentin Tarantino uses in its films.

And why was that? It's because Tarantino and Sorvino were dating during the making of Romney and Michelle. And Romeo and Michelle's production designer, Maine Burke, is also friends with Jerry Martinez, who is the designer who created the fake brands for Tarantino. He says, it's a signature thing, Martinez says. It's Quentin's way of saying all these different characters share the same universe. So what they're also saying... Which it totally makes sense.

I could see them being in like pulp fiction. Right. So it is a nod that Quentin Tarantino was also saying, these characters would definitely live in the world that I create for my characters. Hell yeah. And I think it gives it a fun, cool nod of just saying like, this isn't just a whatever comedy. I love a good Easter egg.

I really do. If you want to see the Big Kahuna Burger bag, it's in the scene when they're depressed and they're eating all the junk food. You can see the bag in the back on that too. And the red apple promo is when the car kept star. And then she would go, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then we'd stall again, which that is such a perfect comedic moment. Like, just the, it's great. Yeah.

There was also a cutscene with Will Ferrell as a waiter who Remy gets to call her on her cell phone in front of the mean girls. But she doesn't pick up the phone because she was already outed as not having invented post-its. I want to see it. So we just kept calling. Yeah, they said, like, if we ever released like a super special edition DVD, we'll include that footage. want to see it too. I was apparently cut though because the audience, maybe it was from test screening or something,

but the audience couldn't handle Romy being upset for that long. Yes, because you already are aware that it's going to get uncomfortable and it was interesting to watch it with Jeff who had never seen it before and he's like oh, it's going to get so uncomfortable. Oh, it's going to get it. I'm like, but you're right,

it could have been more uncomfortable. They definitely could have tortured you a little bit more, but I think they wanted the movie to not make you that upset. So unlike that plastic surgery, which by the way, Merkin added the weird plastic surgery bit. He also added the limousine hit. Lisa Kudrow improvised the Ow, Ow, Ow, though, that made that scene so memorable. One of my favorite, number two favorite moment under the dance sequence, speaking of which.

So it was also another edition Merkin made was to have, in the flashback, having Billy standing Romy up, that was in the script. But it was where Michelle offers to dance with her. And then they do so to Cindy Lomper's time after time. time. That was actually not in there at first. That was to add more to their direction. And then at the end of the movie originally, it was supposed to be like this Saturday Night Fever disco dance scene. And he made it time after time. And I'm so happy he did because it's way better this way. It's so wonderful. Everything about it. Right. Merkin said, I had such a great time shooting that dance sequence. I rehearsed them to death on that with my choreographers. So they were so ready to do that

scene. I had spent, set a lot of time aside because I thought it was going to be very time consuming. But they had rehearsed it so well and were so prepared that even though it was a complicated thing to shoot, it was shot very quickly and very easily. I knew how funny and sweet and moving it was, even as I was shooting it. I love that. I never realized that Mirosorvina was a ballerina at one point. So she was able to show off her moves. But Lisa Kudur went to the choreographer and was just straight up like, I don't dance. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, can't even fake it. So that's why they compose these statue, like, but it makes it so much better. Yes, it's great. And I also,

I really love the level of commitment they have in it where it's, they're not, they're being very serious within the dance piece. Like, they're not like going like, whatever, like they're being very emotionally involved in the piece and it's such a silly dance. And also, I don't really know, I have no idea if the Allen Cumming shoes and that, scene. I kind of just thought about it this time. Are his soul so thick because he's a rubber creator? Yeah, that's what he created for the rubber. I've never thought, I've never put that together before, but I love how insane his shoes looked. Right. That seems too. Even David Merkin said, Alan Cumming, his British sensibility came shining through. He knew exactly the tone

that I was looking for, which was deadly, deadly serious while doing an incredibly stupid dance. Yes, so great. And I do want to talk about their, the dresses. that they are wearing during this amazing dance scene because I didn't realize that Romie's dress is a nod to a Star Wars dress which I didn't think about. Star Trek. All the same.

You're in trouble. I'm in nerd jail now. It is a Star Trek. They're all in this space, except I don't. Oh, nerd jail. I know. She said because Romie decided and she assumed that Romi would be a Treki.

And Lisa Kudrow said the dresses were surprisingly comfortable and forgiving, but Mira had imagined that Romi is kind of a Trekkie, even though it's not anywhere in the script. So her dress was blue and did have certain lines that you'd see in a Star Trek episode. And Mona May said, I painted that Star Trek detail on Mira's dress. And Miris Ravina said, I think that was my idea. I'm a huge Star Trek geek. So fun. Well, they had to spend $240,000 to get time after time,

And that's a good segue into the soundtrack. How great is the great? Such a good soundtrack. Yeah, man, they must spend a lot of money on them songs. Except for the actual soundtrack itself, which didn't have a lot of the songs on it. It didn't have just a girl. It didn't have YMCA. It didn't have Addicted to Love.

It didn't have ain't no love, ain't no use by sub sub. It didn't have footloose. Hello, Trouble. Don't get me wrong. Have a good time. And it also didn't have time after time on the song. soundtrack originally. I believe it.

Couldn't get the money for it. That's an expensive soundtrack to have. Yeah. They could only pick and choose. Also, Merkin had to fight for the use of just a girl. The executives felt it was too edgy and too strong. And no doubt had not broken it big until just before the film came out. And so he super proved them wrong.

Yeah. I love that. God, isn't that so great? We're like, ha, ha, ha. And also time after time was a choice for sure. David Merkin said, it was really important to have the right song for the women to hear. I listened to every single song from the decade of the 80s.

The only song that had the proper emotion and also had the perfect lyrics was time after time. There was nothing that came close to that song. And he said clearly the choreography is tailored to the tune, which exaggerates the scene even more. They're dancing a playback to that song. The choreography takes the lyrics in mind. So if you watch the dance and think about,

I didn't, I never noticed that it is just weirdly like an interpretation of the song time after time. It's so great. I love it. And yeah, Cindy Lopper is a queen and time after time is a fucking fantastic song. It's so good. And so, yeah, we get into post-production here and release. Merkin stood his ground from the very beginning that he wanted in R-rating with how people

actually talked in high school, including those F-bombs. Also, if Mirosarvino didn't tell those ladies to go fuck themselves the way that she does, I just don't think it would have the same impact. No, it would. So I'm really happy to this ground. He also wanted to show the true casual cruelty of high school as well, which the studio agreed

to initially, however, quote, when they were finally presented with the film and really confronted with the truth of all this, it was a challenge for them. They wanted this to be an innocuous, sweet comedy. It was the complete opposite of what they were looking for.

Yes. So it was a struggle to keep the film in its quirky, weird form and to get that vision out there. It still is sweet, though. They're just, it is. It is. It is. So shitty. But you also have to remember that when they first greenlit the movie, the entire dream sequence was not in there.

And the dance was not in there. So they thought it was just going to be a run-of-the-mill comedy. And so then when they saw it after it was done, they're like, um, what? the fuck and i love that robin ship and david murkin were like this is the movie this is what we made we're not changing it yeah shift said the studio was going to dump it i made plans to go out of town for the week and it opened because i figured there would be all these horrible reviews and i'd be embarrassed the ship was then shocked to find that the reviews were largely positive and that the film ended up making a decent profit and there it is yeah it did it did fairly well originally which is pretty well not always

True with cult movies. Sometimes they kind of tank. Well, in the test screenings, they did tank, because even Robin Schiff said, I first saw it at a test screening, and it played horribly. It was one of the worst testing movies in the history of Disney. I'm laughing now, but it wasn't funny at the time. There was a focus group afterwards, and it was very painful. But then, after the reviews came in, even Roger Ebert said, Romeo and Michelle's high school reunion is one of the brightest and goofiest comedies in a while,

a film that has a share of truth, but isn't afraid to cut loose with the weirdest choreography I have seen outside a 1960s revival. And I think that's delight. I love that people could see it for what it was trying to be. Totally.

And the studio really didn't want the dance sequence to be kept in in the end. David Birkins- Which is the only thing, honestly, if that wasn't in there, I would have been like, it was pretty good. The dance sequence, honestly,

made the whole movie for me. Well, because the best parts of that are the weird quirky part. and there needs to be enough. There needs to be a balance of those. If it's not enough of the weird parts, you're going to kind of just lose. The quirkiness is going to get buried

by just like the normalcy of other parts of it. If anything, I wanted more weird shit. Oh, yeah. That was like my one day. I was like, God, I almost just went further with this stuff. I was very much in love with him. It is, but that is the element of surprise. Gene Garofalo's lines in this movie are my favorite.

And actually, my very favorite line, one of my top favorite lines of any movie ever is Janine Garofalo. line. This dress exacerbates the genetic betrayal that is my legacy. I love that line too, Natalie. I remember that one. I love it.

Did you guys, now, did you guys watch the prequel TV show at all? Because this is so I'm not a huge Catherine Hegel as Romy and Alexandra Breckenridge as Michelle. I did not. I definitely did not. It was a backdoor pilot, essentially a TV movie slash backdoor pilot that aired in 2005, starring

those two. Yeah, Heigel played Romy, Breckeridge played Michelle. It featured a special appearance from Paula Abdul. And it has Romeo and Michelle graduating in 1987 and then shows the moving to LA three years later where they try their handed sex work very briefly. And then they're like not into it. But then they still get arrested because they borrow money off of a guy to make a phone call or something. And it just seems.

But it is, I will say it is written and directed by Robin Schipp. So at least it is. Yes, who also then goes on to write the musical edit. of Romaine Michelle's high school reunion. Which I do think it's fun, though, because Robin Chiff was like, okay, well, I guess you guys can do a musical. That's fine. And then she heard the songs they were writing and how they work on it. And she was like, okay, all right, all right, I'm going to write this.

You guys just put it down. Put it down. I will come in and I will write it. She said, she said, it had never been on my radar to write a musical. And she says, I feel like Donald Trump when I say this, but it's so much harder than I thought it would be. But it's been one of the peak experiences of my life. Wait, was that, did she say that within the last four years? Yes.

Oh, okay, okay. It also took like seven years or something like that to actually come together. The book was done by Robin Schiff herself. It was directed by Kristen Hangi, who did Rock of Ages. And it premiered in 2017 at Seattle's Fifth Avenue Theater. And there was an industry workshop for it that was supposed to be held on March 18th of this year in New York City. but I feel like that probably didn't happen. So I do hope this happens because I would love to see this musical.

It seems like a lot of fun. I watched some clips on YouTube. And they left a lot from the movie in the musical except they said, we took out Heather Mooney's fucks and Romy's fake orgasm. But that's basically it. They're totally tonally similar. And I would really dig to see the musical version. And it actually took 12 years to write that.

And it was debuted in 2017. Mm-hmm. And also there has been very vague talk of a possible sequel, just that Mirr Savina would love to do it. We always talk about it, she said, and we're always open to it. We'd be very happy to revisit it as a sequel or a TV series. I think it would be so much fun. We've always loved each other.

I do love to, is that Lisa Gudro was open to the idea of a Romney and Michelle sequel, though finding the plot would be challenging. She said, I don't know what it would be. Romie and Michelle get divorced again? We talked about it with Robin Schiff, but the studio just wasn't interested. I would love to see them do a sequel where they're just still friends and not married.

I think that would be great. Yes. Because, you know, they are, well, Lisa Kudrow is very nearly 60 years old now. Wow. It's not great. I mean, she's amazing. This is also another idea

that Robin Schiff was throwing around for a sequel, which I enjoy. She said, the idea was that Romeo and Michelle had their store, and this woman with a store nearby was getting married before them. So they tell her that they're getting married. and they start planning a double wedding with no fiancés. Sandy was out of the picture, in my mind, and Sandy and Michelle were never going to end up together.

I don't think that they have much in common. Can you imagine them having a conversation? Oh. Also, she was very mean to Sandy, and I think he deserved to be treated. Honestly, he deserves someone better. That's not just like, oh, I guess I'll be with you for money. But you know what I do love with Roby and Michelle? Is it, you know what, women can be bastard sometimes, too?

Oh, yeah. I do love that Robin Chip talks about how she feels like it's super summed up to the flashback sequence when they're old and married. And he's like, have you been unhappy with me all these years? She's like, no, I'm just lonely and I have no one to talk to. Because as much as you're always going to have your significant other, you still need that girlfriend. You need that person in your life that you could really talk to. I'm the Mary. You're the Rhoda.

I'm the married. The old see the flash forward is so funny. I think it's so fucking. The old lady given the finger. Yeah, it's great. So I have a couple of summary quotes to give this a little button. Do you have anything else, any knowledge bombs before we wrap this thing up? Nah, dog.

No, I think we got all the fun ones in there. Yeah, there's some good ones. This is, I have a quote from executive producer Barry Kemp and a quote from Robin Schiff in terms of the responding to a question about the enduring quality of this film that I wholeheartedly agree with. Barry Kemp said this. He also, by the way, produced the musical. Everybody has an innate longing

to have a best friend. Sometimes that best friend is a platonic friend and sometimes that best friend is a lover, sometimes male, sometimes female. But the fact is, it doesn't really matter. Every person wants to have somebody who gets them on a level that is not judgmental, someone who accepts flaws as well as attributes,

and who sees attributes that others do not. That's what is at the core of this story. And this is a quote from Robin Schiff. By the way, they're like super close friends, these two. I love. And Robin Schiff said, I think the other part of it is they're different. They're weird.

They're the weird people at school. And I think that's one of the reasons for their longevity. So many of us have felt like the other. And so I think we relate to Romeo and Michelle. And we'd like to see them triumph. Agreed. I felt like such a loser weirdo in school. And that's why another reason why I love this movie.

Yeah. Definitely. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, that doesn't. We did it. We did it. I'm so glad that we did this movie. I know.

It put me in a smile mood. Yes, and so much about it, I had no idea I didn't know about ladies. I didn't realize that that is where they had come from because I was aware of the play, but not aware. I just never put it all together and realized it was the same person. And it's like, so essentially Robin Schiff has been tethered to these characters. For what does that mean now? 40 years 40 years

And the movie's been out for 23 years Wow Time flies, guys Time after time Time after time Go watch Romeo Michelle It will make you smile I promise

And thank you so much for joining us For another episode of pop history My name is Holden You can find us more so on Patreon If you'd like to Subscribe to our Patreon $5 a month You get so much bonus content

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