Page 7 - Pop History: Say Anything

Episode Date: July 20, 2021

Raise your boombox to the sky and hope your crush looks in your eyes! This episode we dive into the history of the 1989 classic Say Anything.Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7PodcastKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0 Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I am complete. My God, Peter Gabriel, you know what? He's got a little bit shoved up his own ass. I love the song. No, but come on. It's a great song. It's a great time. I thought you were going to go a little bit deeper dive and do like the...

Joe lies. Duh, yeah. Your lies. Joe lies. When he cries. It's so good. It's so good. That'll never be me.

That'll never be me. That'll never be me. No, no, no. I love her. Yeah, I love her. I wish I could have those friends when I was in high school. They're so supportive and warm and amazing. I feel like, I hate to say my, suck my own cock here, but I think that I was that

friend. And I was the one always in love. I was always in love with the best friend, but always like, go get her, man. Yeah. You're the good one, dude. Go fucking get her, bro. Were you, oh, what's her name? Were you the one who plays the guitar or the other girl?

The other one. No, no, no, definitely the other one. I wasn't a sexy one. I was the one no one. Lily Taylor. I couldn't remember her name. Lily Taylor's sexy. Lily.

Oh no, Lily Taylor's sexy as fuck. That's why I'm the other one. Today's episode. We're covering say anything. I think the other one's sexy as well. Thank you. And this movie, I will say, I feel like maybe it was because it was too real for this guy. Actually, no, it was too unreal for this guy.

I don't think I really connected with this movie on a deep level until we prepared for this episode. Really? Yeah. because I don't think I could handle it. I think that's the relationship I probably had always wanted and never had in high school. I was so loveless during that time that I was like, that I think maybe I tried to watch it. I was just like, I don't literally get this because I've not been in a relationship yet and I literally have no context for what this is. But I did feel like Lloyd in my pining and my yearning.

Yeah, I feel like that was a level of pining that could have been maybe close to yours, Holden. And I will say that Holden did pick me up for this episode in the car with the song blasting. This is true. And my panties didn't fall off. So at least that's pretty great. That's a little bit of mixed messaging from Holden. Yeah. Well, you know, I was there.

I mean, I was in the process of trying to get the powdery mildew off of my zucchini leaves, but we don't need to talk about that right now. We're here to talk about say anything. And I am, I was a diehard completely over the moon in love with Lloyd Dobler. And of course I watched this movie way too many times because I was in love with Lloyd Dobler. And the first thing I said when Holden drove up with in your eyes playing was, Ione Sky, run! Because now as an adult, watching this movie, all I can think of is,

don't! You have such a bright future. Leave him. Go find someone else. I'm with you. And actually, though, I'm going to say I made a full revolution on this. Really? With re-watching.

So as a, yeah, as a teenager, this was the most romantic thing I'd ever seen. Of course. They're fucking star-cross lovers, but they don't die. Right. But, yeah, and I had a shirt that I found in the thrift store that was a say anything. And on the back it said, I gave her my heart. She gave me a pen. And then as I got older, I was like, oh, this is not healthy.

She doesn't need this dude, like, weighing her down. But as I rewatched it, I'm kind of on the other side of the fence again. He is good for her. I'm like, okay, maybe they won't stay together forever, but she needs him right now and he wants to get out. But also, maybe he'll grow up together and he'll become a house husband. And she'll make all the money. Yeah. And that is completely, like there's nothing wrong with that.

In fact, she could make the money to help support him and his dreams, which is also completely cool. But it is kind of funny, though, to look at it now of like, but you're 17, 18 years old, you guys. But if your dad is in prison, maybe you need. A kickboxer. Either way it works out, right? Because either way, Lloyd leaves his hometown, goes, sees the world in this amazing way.

Even if their relationship doesn't work out, I still think this ends up being a great move for both of them. Right. Like, she asserts what she wants in this life, which is him with her in England. he also just spreads out of it. They probably will break up in London, right? Sure. But that's all good because he's going to expand,

he's going to learn kickboxing out there or whatever. And what a beautiful first relationship. Much better than my first fucking relationship. At least it is not toxic. I mean, they are, he does support her and wants her to follow her dreams. Yeah, well, it is. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, she's not a real sex doll. So, yeah, it's a lot better than my first relationship. I think on the, yeah, on the, um, on the, um, On the side of you, Jackie, though, I think the, you know, potential bad side of all of that is because they're so young, he could also just never mature. And then when she breaks up with him, he stalks her and, like, stares, stares outside her window and stuff. And which he technically did do. Yeah. No, he did do that.

But, that's okay. He is in love. And I will say, this is another one of those movies that I've seen 100,000 times that my partner had never seen. So in watching it afterwards, he was like, that was a really great movie. movie. That's no idea. That ending, by the way, I feel like that it's so iconic.

It's so iconic with the boom box, but like honestly, them looking up at the light was a more impactful moment in the movie to me. It actually gave me chills. Me too. Yes, I knew it was going to happen, but I was still like, oh man, I love the way they ended this movie.

So good. Do you remember when your whole fucking world was in front of you, your whole life was in front of you, and like, who knows what's going to happen next? And you make the job! Yeah, you're about to fly for the first time across the country. I mean, I've been there before. Not with the love of my fucking stupid

ass life, because I didn't kiss a girl till I was 19. But besides that, yeah, dude. But also, you know what, back in the day, but it still is true to this day, the fact that he calls her up on the phone and asks her out. And that is such a... And talks to her dad and it's respectful.

Like, that's the thing that's nice about this movie. It goes outside of the trope of like, he's just like a bad boy and like doesn't get... No, he's like so polite to the dad. wants to like tell her him how much he cares about her and respects her and will and and and and and out the gate which is why I always wanted a Lloyd Doppler yeah how do you not want that guy especially the dude that has all the female friends and it like and I know that is an old trope but it that kind of true that part with the bros too is so I love that so funny and

and also too to see him as the fragile one when they finally do have sex and he's the one shaking and he's the one you've like how rare especially back then was a moment like that in a movie where he wasn't just like the get that mess shit you know what I mean also what's really cool is reading Ione Skye's interviews about this as well and she was 16 at the time and had never been in a situation like that so she was so nervous and she just talked about how like Cameron Crow and John Cusack together made her so comfortable in the situation and they went out of their way to make sure that she was comfortable in all of it. And I mean, of course, now looking back,

I think that you can't do that anymore. Nah, probably not. John Cusack was like 21 or 22 at the time. But I appreciate the fact that they made it a situation where they didn't want her to feel. Like, and they would have stopped anything if she wasn't comfortable with it. She doesn't say now as an adult, like,

oh, that was horrible. No. Like, she also was like that. What a beautiful way to start like to like push me out into being famous, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. I'll also say

my John Cusack growing up my John Cusack movie was a different movie it was called Better Off Dead and I love that movie I thought you were going to say high fidelity Holden also high fidelity

Good movie do not emulate that man's thing No no no no no no it's that no it's definitely Better Off Dead and Gross Point Blank But Better Off Dead Oh gross point blank's great So good I might have to go down like a total John Cusack

The Lapt to this movie The full full Kusack family. You know that there's two sisters. And, yeah, this is the first time John Kuzak got to be in a scene in the same movie together. They've been in the same movie together. Yeah, they were in Prudian Pink, right? But they were never in the same scene together. This is the first time they got to act together and it's so fucking just real. I love, I love Joe Zazac so much. I can't handle it.

I love her. I can't handle this movie either. It's so good. When I was doing the research for this, because every time I looked up Cameron Crow or anything about it, they're like, you must want to know more information about almost famous. Or anytime I would look up the movie, say, You're like, you must be talking about the band. I'm like, I'm not. No, I know. I want to, like, this is such a great, what an amazing example of a well-written, well-acted,

not just a teen romantic comedy. It's so much more than that. And that's why I'm so excited that we did this research and the rewatch of it to remind us that like, nah, not all teen rom-coms are just bullshit. Yeah. Yeah, also all the theater kids in college that I didn't like. way over exaggerated their love for Almost Famous, which made me kind of dislike it for a long time.

I do understand that. Which, yeah, they loved, oh, they're a golden god, Jackie. Of course they are. They're all doing drugs for the first time. Yeah, of course, everybody's a golden fucking god. Right, yes. But especially the switch, which will kind of dabble in a little bit as we talk about Cameron Crow here in a second.

The story behind Almost Famous, I think, is actually more interesting. Well, because it's based on Cameron Crow's actual life. Exactly. Which is how this movie does come together. Which you can't talk about almost famous without bringing up the first movie that he wrote and directed, which is say anything. Oh, I thought you were to say fast times at Ridgemont House. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I also want to do pop history.

Of course. It's one of the best teen movies of all times. So let's get into it. Cameron Crow, born in Palm Springs, California to a real estate agent father and a mother who, quote, was a teacher, activist, an all-around-wire who did skits around the house and would wear a clown suit to school. special occasions. He was quite alienated as a kid from others, so I hear you there, Cameron. I was also the weird one.

Fine, I piss my pants every day. What does that matter? We're all the same. He was alienated for others at school because he skipped kindergarten in two grades in elementary school. So he was sort of that little kid, the whole, like, so essentially the character

that you see in almost famous, he was that in fucking middle school because he was always too young playing with the bigger boys in every situation he was in from, from so early because he skipped all these grades and stuff. And also he was alienated because he was ill a lot as a child, suffering from nephritis,

which I think is some Egyptian sort of ancient god kind of disease. I don't know why I feel like that's something where it's like, isn't that part where like parts of your body get like die and fall off? I think you're thinking of necritis. Yeah, yeah. Necrote. That sounds eerily similar. Necro and nephro.

No, we're thinking of nephratiti, the ancient Egyptian god. I looked this up before. Oh, inflammation de los tegidos del Rignor. Oh, I'll take two. I don't know why it's in Spanish when I looked up the definition. Oh, two of those, sir.

To combat this, he got way into writing and music early on. He ended up not just writing for the school newspaper, but also for an underground rag called the San Diego door. His family ended up in San Diego for their lives at this point. This is also around the time,

which I love this little fact, that Cameron Crow did have a band for a short amount of time that only learned the song I feel free and the band was called the masked hamster and that it does sound like the name of a band of a kid

that wore a clown suit to school. We were Vranes which is the genus name for the monitor lizard. I'm already asleep. Oh my god, Holden, you have had a lizard thing forever. Forever. Wow.

Yeah, yeah. Well, my buddy, I grew up around the lizard. My buddy was a lizard enthusiast. I'd go to his house on feeding day. We'd go to the store. We'd get all the mice. I'd watch him feed. It was so fun. And the crickets, of course, for the little guys. But come on. I digress, people. Due to his correspondence with music journalist Lester Bangs, who went from the San Diego door. He went from the San Diego door to writing for the National Rock magazine Cream. And both of them are getting articles over. Also, Lester Bangs, the Philip Seymour Hoffman character in all the space. Again, yes. And almost famous, which is, it is crazy that that was his life.

Yes. That in 15, he was jealous. I'm so jealous of what I'm about to say. After graduating high school at the age of 15, he gets hired to write for Rolling Stone, and he becomes the magazine's youngest ever contributor. At 16, he gets to hit the road with the Almond Brothers band for three weeks for a story. He's kind of known as the kid. He's like the wild card he can throw at bands that don't have a good relationship with

Rolling Stone magazine, or that none of the other people want to. Are you going to scream at this kid? Right. But also honestly, as much... And the kid got the bands better than these older people who were not just understanding the new way. They're not with it anymore. And I do...

But thinking about it now, I don't think I've thought about this since I was 16, but I'd so much rather do that now than when I was 16. Because I feel like I'm so much more confident now that I don't know. But then that's part of the essence of him in general, that he could get into rooms that us jaded older. Whether or not he should have been allowed to. Oh. It would be like, to me, it would be like mumble rappers or like, you know what I mean?

Fuck yeah, man. SoundCloud like musicians that were. Yeah, I mean, Lil Peep was dead in that RV for hours while everyone partied around him. Oh, dude. Witch Blades. What's up, Witch Blades? All right, but either way, we're talking Led Zeppelin, Neil Young, Fleetwood Mac. Yeah, I'm down with the fucking got boy click.

All right? I'm just saying it right now. I'm just saying it out loud. These are just a few bands he got to go around with. and of course that's all encapsulated and almost famous. But then also he has this other fucking crazy-ass life experience that's like so nutto and amazing that is the basis of Fast Times of Ridgemont High. He ends up in the late 70s looking for new avenues in life because it wasn't fun and crazy

enough just going on tour like the greatest rock band. I can't wait to do the Fast Times episode. Totally, totally, totally, totally, totally. So yeah, I'll just briefly say he goes undercover at the age of 22 as a high school student at Claremont High School in San Diego and that Coleman. it's, or that ends up being, and that leads to his book, Fast Times of Ridgemont High, a true story, which was, of course,

what broke him into the film industry as the adaptation of it, which he did write, became a sleeper hit in 1982. But it was directed by Amy Heckerling. Oh, yes, it was. We've talked about on previous episodes. And so he wrote the book, wrote the screenplay for Fast Times, but is say anything that he wrote and directed for the first time,

which again, very young. to do this still. But can you imagine writing for Rolling Stone, going undercover, writing a bestselling book, turning that into a screenplay, all of this before your mid-20s? I was only drunk in a gunner

in my 20s. I would perform and then I would be drunk. Usually at the same time. And people look up to our life experience. I did ballet sometimes and then was drunk when I was. One time I did come to dress rehearsal on asses. you make that mistake once.

I did the same thing at my bakery job. You make that mistake once. You'll never look at the tiles the same way, though. Before we do get to say anything, you also did write a pseudo-sequel to Fast Times. I didn't even know about this movie, the movie The Wild Life. Now I got to watch The Wildlife.

It does have a pretty good cast, too. I'm sure it can't be that great because no one talks about it. But as fate would have it, a mutual friend introduces Crow to James L. Brooks and you've probably seen that name before in the producer credits. And only because of Terms of Endearment,

which, ah! I am gonna, oh, I'm gonna force y'all to watch Terms of Endearment. Well, for me, it's the Simpsons. Yeah, I guess, fine. I can only ever see his name is James Hellbrook's. Yeah, yes, James Hells.

And the Halloween episodes, yeah. Brooks said, we simply liked talking to each other. My life is very chaotic, and then often you have conversations that have to have a purpose, generally a business one. and I immediately felt that this was a great guy to get to know. And Brooks also felt that, quote,

writers should have a real voice in the way their projects are made and that they should stay with their projects in one capacity or another, which is what leads us to Crow getting to direct his first film. So, yeah, and then that's all the thing. So James L. Brooks is the producer. Essentially, he is the, oh, what is it called? Puppet Master. No, I guess Puppet Master?

The mentor. He's the mentor of this problem. The necromancer. Yes, the necromancer. Yes, he grew up. Back up from the dead. But it's not the same. Someone kill it.

I can't be killed. It's the wildlife. Kill it. It's your ex-boyfriend, Jackie. We've risen to take your life. All in one. No, he's not the necromancer. James L. Brooks is the mentor of this production.

And he originally brought in Cameron Crowe because he was doing research for the movie broadcast news. And because of everything that Cameron Crow had undergone at such a young age, he wanted to get to know him more, especially. And Crow said about James L. Brooks when he wanted to have a meeting

with him, I was amazed that this guy who has all these directing awards and a case on the wall was always referring to himself as a writer. He just wanted to talk about the stone years. This is what happened when he got brought in because he didn't know why he wanted to speak with him in the first place. Because it seems like

at this point, Cameron Crow wasn't in the place to be ready to direct yet. Yeah, yeah. And Brooks was drawn to Crow because he felt that he had, quote, a unique and legitimate understanding of young people. He sees things differently from everyone else, which I think is a great description of like what makes say anything so special. Yes. So the idea for the film actually started from an experience of Brooks's as which he told to Crow. He said, let me just share something with you. I was walking in New York and I saw a beautiful young girl walking with her father. There was something about the way they walked across the street, the way he guided her with a slight touch of her elbow, and the way they looked at each other. That was very inspiring. And I thought to myself, what if that man was a crook? What do you think of that? So it started with the mother-father relationship. It didn't even start with the pining boy. Lloyd comes later. And I love this too because the entire time watching this movie again with a partner that had never seen it before and how loving John Mahoney is in it. He's like, is he going to be bad? Please just tell me he's a good father. Please just tell me he's a good father because he didn't know.

And I was like, I will say, he's a bad person. He's a bad person, but a good father. Like he did, he did. It's a complex character. It's not just a villain. And I think probably also Jeff might have been concerned because now every father's a molester. That's what he was nervous about.

And he's like, I don't think I can handle watching this pivot into that. And I was like, I can tell you it's not what you think. Right, right. And he was so surprised by what it was. And he kept saying. Yo, and he kept saying, he's like, but he loves them. But he, like, but he enjoys his work. We actually had to pause it to discuss the, like, the moral standpoint from which John Mahoney's character was written.

And how a person can be good and bad, because that's how everybody is in real life. Yes, and to capture that in a movie that is just supposed, like, on the outside, seemingly just a teen romance movie, that's a lot to tackle. For sure. That scene where he is sitting in the bathtub. Oh my God. It's so striking. So real. Because you are seeing this really intimate, like vulnerable space that this dad figure is,

and most of the time is like this sort of like boss figure. And then you just see him just like huddled in the bathtub trying to figure out what he's going to do. And you're just like, oh, my God. I feel like I shouldn't be seeing this. It's such a, yeah, it's such a uncomfortable decline watching all throughout and seeing his, like, false confidence chip away throughout the whole film is kind of, it's such a good performance. We're going to get into him when we get to casting. But man, what a fucking great actor.

I love Frazier, by the way. Big Frazier fan. Love Frazier. This is not about Frazier. I want to do what I'm going to do one about Frazier. I love Niles. I love Niles. I mean, if you're going to say this now, we have to bring up the BB New Earth who's in this movie.

Oh, yeah. Oh, snap. Lilith. Oh, snap. Sorry. From here, from here they begin to build out these two characters, this mother-father character, especially the father James, the father James Court,

who runs a nursing home, which Crow was very used to at this point because he's visiting his own grandmother at a nursing home quite often. So that's where that idea, I think, kind of came to life. Crow said, I had wanted to write an adult character with all the shadings for a long time. As for Diane, she was difficult to write.

Guys are easy for me. They crack me up. Girls have always been more of a mystery. I had skipped two grades, and they were always older and more mature than I was when I was at school. So he had to spend a lot of time just talking to women during this period, attempting to actually understand them as opposed

to writing some stupid caricature. And I think he did a damn good job. Yes, and that's what he said. Well, Fast Times was about sex, drugs, rock and roll, and being an adult at a little kid's age, Crow said, say anything allowed me to draw characters with more depth. I never got a chance to write a love relationship before. It was a feeling I had tried in the past and had missed because it was a little bit more cartoony. Yeah. Even though it was still fairly grounded, but this was such a beautiful relationship to watch unfold from the beginning that you can see the progression and never like, well, why is she doing that? Yeah, how did it? Yeah, but also in a way that was true to teenagers where it was too dramatic at points and they were

already in love with each other very quickly. Right. I was going to ask, like, do you all think that he did nail the female voice in this? You know what I mean? It was not who I was in a person, but I believe her as a character for sure. Right, right. And I always did. And I always did. here, you know, even it's funny because Charlie's their own says us a lot of like, no one asks me out on a date. Someone asked me on a date. I'm asking right now. Someone, everyone is scared

of asking me out on a date because they think that I am above it. Please ask me out on a date. And I think that that encapsulates. I mean, she knows she's one of the fucking most beautiful people in the world. She knows it. Yes. And I've heard that before. I forget who it was, but a woman, a front woman of a band talking about how different it is in terms of like just

hooking up on the road or like getting hit on the She's like, I never, like, the men are intimidated because I'm up there on the stage, like commanding the stage. And it weirdly works in reverse for a lot of women to, like, dating and courting. 100%. And what is really cool is that originally at this point in time, as Cameron Crow and James L. Brooks are fleshing out this story, is originally Lawrence Kasdan was going to direct this film. And he is the writer of the Empire Strikes Back and readers of the Lost Ark and director of the Big Chill

and body. Oh, big chap. Don't even. Sorry. I can't. Okay. Johnny him. Any fucking tie.

Hey. But he is the one that backs down for Cameron Crow to direct it because he says you are that main character. You should direct it. And isn't that fucking cool of someone that is like so well known and for James L. Brooks to be like, you know what? Okay. Yeah.

Let's fucking do it. I mean, at least they already knew he's some kind of fucking genius. Yeah. But also, I mean, he really does. I didn't even think about this before, but I'll skip this big quote about Diane from Crowe because so much of it is just to say, Diane, in a lot of ways, is actually Cameron Crowe. That's the thing. And I think it's so interesting.

Because he skipped all the grades. He was like the smart kid. The fish out of water in technically the same water. Yeah. And never quite fit in with everyone and was always. kind of on the outside. And that's why when you ask the question of like, do you think that represents a female voice of that time period? And I agree with you, Natalie, not mine. But I did know also people that were very close to their family that also did the same kind of

thing. That when you get that insular support, there are times that you don't like, I needed to reach out to my friends. I had to have my friend group around to feel supported and of that what I wanted to do. I knew from a young age that a friend group was very important in my life. But then there are people that are completely content with the relationship. Like, of her having to undergo going through a trial to pick her father to live within a divorce, you've made your bed at that point. And she's just like, well, I am tied to him now. But she did it in a respectful way. And he's tied to her excellence. He's pushing her through this. And she obviously is like, a genius on her own.

So her being the smartest kid in school and a girl would probably like where you're saying, which really certain, make her really isolated because people don't know how to talk to her and they are intimidated. And she doesn't know she's like hot yet. Yeah.

So they've got the father character and they've got the daughter character and they now need to move on to this third character that they're trying to bring in. They want it to actually end up being based on a character that, a real person. I love this.

Named Lowell, who was a kickboxer that claimed his family was under investigation by the IRS. This was Cameron Crow's next door neighbor. He was a kickboxer that literally introduced. He knocked on Cameron Crow's door. He opens up the door and he goes, hey, I'm a kickboxer, and it's a sport of the future.

I'd like to share my story with you. And that is what he says when he answered the fucking door. Crow said he had a wonderful mannerism. He always wiped his hand off before shaking hands. He lost most of his fights but remained relentlessly. optimistic. That to me is truly heroic. I soon realized nothing I could create could be as unique as this guy at my door. So Lowell became Lloyd. But that's also where he got the idea of the IRS stuff. Yes, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, I apologize. No, no, no, no, no. That's, I didn't, we kind of

breeze past it. Yeah, right? That his father was being investigated by the IRS back in Arkansas. So this all just kind of came together and even said that it was kind of Kismet Holden. But I think it's a good example for anyone out there interested in writing their own material. Take from what you know. Yeah. Just look at the world around you. And I love how Crow talks about, first of all, the man, first of all, I love how James L. Brooks talks about this father, daughter that he saw and was inspired by, right? That means his eyes are open to the world around him.

He's observing the world around him. And he's collecting ideas for stories in that way, which you have to actively do sometimes. You know, you kind of need to train. You don't just naturally do that. And then Crow, same, right? Listen to this quote about his interaction with Lowell because you could see how he observes things through it. He had a wonderful mannerism.

He always wiped his hand off before shaking hands. He lost most of his fights but remained relentlessly optimistic. That to me is truly heroic. I soon realized nothing I could create could be as unique as this guy at my door. So Lowell became Lloyd. Like just saying like the way he noticed he wiped his hand off every time before shaking hands. Like these little tiny things is what a character makes. Completely.

Right, and also to flesh out these characters in and talk about well written in an hour and 40 minutes. So good. This entire no fat story is done with such great detail in an hour and 40 minutes. It can be done, writers and directors of this time period. Because right now I feel like everything, not to be an old person, is two and a half fucking hour long. Now that you don't have to worry about how much film you're using, people are just like, make it four hours. Put all of it into it. And I say this as a lover of the Fast and the Furious franchise.

That, yeah, sure, put more action in it. There's no dialogue to be found. That's fine. I agree with that. I think that party scene should also be studied in class because of how much it establishes in this one chunk of incredibly just entertaining human interaction. When he keeps making eye contact with her

because he's just checking up. And the fact that she notices, which is the kind of thing that like, oh, it melts my heart. But that's another great example of like, he lets her just enjoy the party. Yeah, go enjoy, go be in it. You see the guy, you know, and in most other movies,

the guy'd be like right up against the girl the whole time. How about we go here now? How about, I love that he's just like, have fun, enjoy yourself for once your fucking life. Yeah. I'm not going to be up your ass. And I'm key master, so I'll be sober and so you go have fun. The whole party is so observational.

Yeah. Because like you said, we're learning about these two main characters by their interactions with all of these other kids and also seeing those kids alone sometimes. They're not even just focusing on their relationship or looking at the kids around them, which also kind of makes you understand

the protagonist's relationship more. Right. Totally. Yeah, and then there's very funny moments in there and a very inappropriate counselor coming to the party. Really? Really shouldn't be at the party. Probably shouldn't be at the party. About Lloyd Crowe said he's a pure soul,

a man who represents a very specific point of view. Optimism is a revolutionary act. Life keeps bumping up against Lloyd and those around him, but he chooses to say, why can't you just be in a good mood? How hard is that? I love that line. I love it.

And it is, just the look on Joan Cusack's face of, because she lives in the real world and because you don't yet. And that is really just a huge part of that, of like, why can't you just be in a good mood? You can choose to be in a good mood. and I over and over again in the DVD commentary, Cameron Crow and James L. Brooks say,

optimism is a revolutionary act. I love it. Is the theme of them for this movie. And you're right, because especially in the late 80s where just, man, the cynicism was, and then into the 90s, where it was cool to be blazze. Apathetic to everything.

And I like that he was someone that had something to say, even though, you know, his manifesto that John Cusack writes for the character, because he did write a manifesto for it, is what spurs a lot of what he says. Like, even the line at the dinner comes from the manifesto that John Cusack writes for Lloyd Dobler specifically because he was so interested in the idea of using optimism as a juxtaposition to the other characters. Well, that is sort of one of the reasons that John Cusack took the role, right?

because he was so tired of doing, like, teen movies. He was, like, not interested. And then you kind of find out that this character's more complicated than just playing, like, oh, whee, I'm a guy in high school, I'm awkward. Right, right, right. Better off dead, essentially. Better off dead, which is a movie of 80s caricatures, but, like, yeah, it's completely, but I totally get that, and I love that he still did this film is I don't think anyone else could have played that part.

No, I think it's that the casting was very important to this. but, I mean, the directing, too. Yeah, sure. And the writing, producer Polly Platt said, Lloyd recognizes the importance of relationships, romantic and familial. Even though Diane's father has done something which she considers terrible,

and even though her father dislikes Lloyd and convinces her to break off with him at one point, it is Lloyd who makes her realize she shouldn't sever the relationship with her father. It is Lloyd who plays the peacemaker and impresses upon her the importance of family relationships. He becomes the bridge that will exist between Diane and her father. And much to his fucking disgust.

John Mahoney, I love that even to the end, not even like a love for him of him trying to be that bridge. And Lloyd just accepts it. And he's okay with that. And he's used to that. Yeah, he's used to it. And I imagine with having a family that moves around a lot because they say that both of Lloyd Dobler's parents are in the military,

so he's moved around a lot. So it seems that he's always been the communication bridge in his family. so adding on another family to that probably isn't too difficult for him. I may try this with my next screenplay. I think this is a really nice little factoid about the process is that Crow then goes off,

writes a 90-page novella that is the story, right? I think 90-page perfect. That's like 30 pages in act, essentially, so it works out that way. And he wrote it in Diane Courts' voice, which is why I think as a writing exercise, he wrote it in her voice

to try to get into her head. to flesh out the character, which is so, that's awesome. Be shooting, he did this? Yeah, pre-screenplay, and that's sort of as the, that sort of as an outline as like a basis for the screenplay. Yeah, and he said, yeah, that's smart. He's like, it turned out to be first person, Diane Court, which was really helpful because then I did another draft

that was all about Diane. That's being lucky enough to have somebody who's inspiring and generous with their time. It's about learning your own voice. So he sat and worked on that because he was very intimidated to write a true, like, in the feminine voice because he had, like you said, it was in and out of high school. He wasn't around a lot of girls his age.

He was so super young at this point. It's hard. Ladies are complicated. They are. And imagine writing as us has to be even more complicated because you want to get it right. I'm pretty complicated. Yeah, you don't even know what goes on inside of here.

I like beans and I like farts and I love. And I like eating pizza. It happened so far. You're such a cis man. Crow actually was prodded by Brooks into the director role. Poly Platt said, as well as Polly Platt, the producer, she said, I thought he had the potential

to be a gifted director. I also enjoy working with first-time directors because they're so open to new ways, ideas, and stories. It keeps me open. Sometimes I feel that Cameron doesn't have a dark side. The film reflects his personality. It's decent, funny, vigorous, energetic, and fresh.

because film is magical and picks up the properties of the people who directed. Polly Plaid, who is a famous producer of many different things, so cool to be able to work with both her and James L. Brooks on this. What a powerhouse team. I know. It's crazy. And I love this quote that Crow said that it took him actually a long time to be the man in charge. He said, so much of my work when he think about it,

satirizes authority figures. I've been a rock and roll journalist since I was 15 years old. And rock and roll is about breaking down. authority and suddenly here I was telling people where to stand and what to do. It was very weird. So getting into the casting by this time John Cusack had been working steadily in film. 16 candles, the sure thing. I already mentioned better up dead stand by me. He was their number one choice for the role without a fallback in mind makes a lot of sense, right? We just talked about how just important he is to this role. Crow said, I always thought John had a Holden Caulfield type

quality. Totally. He's a wonderful actor who has been able to combine the humor and soulful qualities that the character Lloyd called for. I'd seen all of Cusack's movies and I knew one thing. He's incapable of playing a stereotype. There's too much going on inside of him. That's a great fucking quote. And another person that I think that could have done it that actually turned it down right before John Cusack was Robert Downey Jr. And I think at that time period, if you're thinking of like, you know, less than zero time period of Robert Downey, Jr., he couldn't, I think, take on another project. Why?

But it does make sense because I feel like in that, Robert Downey Jr. could have also brought that out of it. But it would not have been the same Lloyd Dobler because John Cusack brings so much of himself into it. And we'll definitely get into that when it comes to, like, costuming. Here's QSack's description of Lloyd. Lloyd is a great American character. He's an individualist who marches to the beat of his own drum and trusts his instincts.

He's a guy who's well aware of what is going on around him, yet he chooses to be optimistic. It's a valid and interesting approach to life. It's certainly more creative than opting for teen angst, which is boring and adolescent. And like you said, he was reluctant to take the role because he says, quote, I never wanted to be a charm monster again, but he had just finished shooting a baseball movie called Eight Men Out with John Mahoney when John Mahoney had gotten the script. And he was like, you should just, he's like, I know you don't want to be another teen movie. should read the script. I think that this would be great for you. You should read the script. They already put it into John Mahoney's head of like, we really want John Cusack. So we kind of like

helped him read it. And he says, at first, this is what John Cusack said about it. I thought that the character Lloyd Dobler didn't have enough dimension at the time, more of a worldview, politics, you know? I was listening to the clash. So I wanted him to have thoughts outside of his high school or county or state to think about the world the way people do when they're young. And that is a huge part of Lloyd Dobler that Cameron Crow worked with him to introduce into the character, which is another thing. If you think of Cameron Crow where it's like, you're a celebrated screenplay writer, director, all this, even at this age, and for him to be open to the fact of like,

hell yeah, let's make it, let's, yeah, let's bring those elements into it. I'm completely open for you to bring whatever you want into this character. And I think that's fucking cool. It's smart, too. I mean, that's a good director. Yeah. Knowing that you can't just micromanage and be like ego maniacal about it because you need to have people's energies put into it.

That's a, it's a collaborative project. And I think that that harkens back to what you just said, Holden, that the Polly Platt's line about working with a first time director too, of being that open of like, yeah, please bring, yeah, let's bring the elements you want into it. Please help, help me. I think, and it's so funny because they kind of follow that method. even now in the MCU, they don't take first-time directors, but they take these fresh young directors

that can come in and really mix it up. Yeah. Nice supple and hurt. Yeah, exactly. Hurt and supple and tight. Tyco Waititi, give me a kid. Oh, give me a kid. Tica.

I'm so paranoid about saying names wrong. Ion. Ione. Ione. Good. See, there you go. Yeah. Ione Sky was also locked into her part very quickly.

Can I just say real quick, Ione Sky is the daughter of Donovan. Yes, hurdy-gurdy man himself. Yes, season of the witch Donovan. They call me me mellow, yallow. And was actually introduced to Cameron Crow by Moon Zappa, the daughter of Frank Zappa. Because Moon Zappa invited both Cameron Crow

and Ioni Sky over to dinner for them to connect. And Cameron Crow said, Moon really wanted it for Ione. She was being a wonderful friend. And Ioni Sky said, I think my father being Donovan was a plus because Cameron loves music, as we all know. I knew this was a great project with Jim Brooks producing. It was a long process of auditioning and very nerve-wracking.

Cameron Crow pushed me to take it very seriously and work very hard on the auditions. But isn't that, I mean, talk about using the clout that you have to make shit happen. My father is Don't get me in there. I don't ever have hate for people who have that in as long as they're working hard for. It sucks of people are just like, I guess they'll just do this because I can't. but like she clearly is a great actor. She had already proven herself like, she convinced them already with her performance

in the film Rivers Edge, a teen crime drama. So she did have at least something they could go to and say like, no, she's got what it takes. Platt said, Ione brings a fragility and vulnerability to the role, which makes Diane more interesting. Without these qualities, Diane's perfection would be boring.

Crow said, like Diane, she's a subtle beauty. It's a beauty that comes from not fully realizing how beautiful you really are. Her performance is haunting in the same way. However, their search for Diane's father proved to be a much more difficult task. Platt said, we had a very difficult time finding an actor in that age bracket.

I do love as well that not only Danny DeVito, Randy Quaid, were brought up for it, but Dick Van Dyke came in. And Cameron Rose said he was fragile and wanted to make sure he was really in the running for it. He went up for lots of meetings where people wanted to just meet him. So he was very excited about this.

He did know he was a little old for the part and he was honored to come in. And apparently they also sent the script to Richard Dreyfus. And he wrote back saying, it's a great script. I want to play Lloyd Dobler. Which is very, and they're like,

you're like too old to play Lord. Sorry, bro. I like this movie with Randy Quaid. It would be interesting. That would be interesting. Platt said, who could play such a demanding and complicated role. We wanted a relatively fresh face,

so you would never guess had a negative side. So this is perfect. We didn't get to John Mahoney until a few days before the rehearsals began. He's a wonderful, versatile professional. Once again, we were very fortunate. Mahoney had been working in film since 81 and had already gotten some solid roles,

such as Moonstruck. We did an episode on that. Or we did share, but still. And he was not a household name, though, and would not remain that way until Frasier was. Remember the dog? What? I remember the dog.

Daphne. Remember Niles? I do. With John Mahoney, also funny, that Jeff immediately was like, why is his hair so poorly dyed in this? And I was like, so, and then over time,

as the movie went on, he's like, oh, it's to see him starting to like let it go of like the facade and what a good physical representation of the falling away of your confidence is letting your hair go.

Yeah. And you could, and that was. such a subtle way to do it as well because even the tub scene you were talking about and you could start seeing the gray coming in and then by the end he has the full almost full gray head of hair in the prison. And also I think it's fitting for him to have put, you know, hair club for men die on his hair. Oh yeah. Like it wouldn't be like perfectly done. Right, right. No. Crow said it's amazing how often dad is still portrayed in films as a pseudo father knows best

figure. Mahoney shows the many layers of a single father who wants to inspire his daughter without being a silver-haired authority figure. This, of course, brings its own set of problems. I will say that is a quote in the context of this time period. I think father has been explored in various

ways since, but I think it took movies like this. But when he says the father's knows best thing, I mean, honestly every movie at that time probably really was that like pipe smoking fucking, you know, like Mr. you know, kind of man of the house kind of thing. And even Cameron Crowe does

said he's like, I got the question all the time. Why does the father have to be guilty? And he said, my answer was always, without the father being guilty, it's pretty and pink. And I never thought about that before I was like, you're right. The parents in pretty and pink are like

the worst people. The way that, I'm not going to get in a pretty pink. I like that you wanted to. You wanted to. Uh-oh. Yeah, uh-oh. System of Down episode.

What? I don't know. John's own sister, Joan Cusack, portrays his sister in the film. We talked about it before, but yes, they got to act together. I love how beautiful their performance is. Joan Cusack, there's just, she is like, she might as well step out of the screen and into my living room. She is so just real.

Oh, yeah. It feels like, I feel like she's a part of my family. She is just so powerful. Wait, I mean 16 candles. Pretty and Pink is actually kind of dark and awesome. 16 candles is the corny one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Just a clarif. stereotypes. Yeah. Shoutouts to Lily Taylor is Lloyd's musician friend. She is amazing in everything she does. I love you, Lily Taylor. Six and me.

You're so good at Sixth and a lot. I just also, I love that she the conjuring. Oh yeah. Yeah, right. She's awesome. She's not bad in the haunting, but the haunting is one of the worst horror movies.

I know, but I love Lily Taylor so much. I also love that he's, that's another collaborator of Cusacks where she's in you know, she's in high fidelity too. Because they were just friends. And that is something that in reading about this, and I never knew this about John Cusack. Number one, all the kickboxing was real and he was training. And apparently it got him into it lifelong.

He's like a double black guy now. And in fact, even in the machete kills the book that Jeff is reading right now, he was just talking about how, what's his name? Now I can't think. Danny Trejo. Danny Trejo. In fact, even Jeff was just telling me in Danny Trejo's autobiography, he said John Cusack is one of only men that he would be scared to ever fight in real life. He's like, he's a real one.

He knows how to fucking fight. And I like, I forgot where I was going with this, but I just like that John Cusack is a kickboxer. And you know what? I want to kiss him. Not anymore, but. I mean, he's not a, he's not a problem. No, no, no, he's not bad.

He's a super, I think he's kind of an asshole. I think he's a political activist. Yeah. He's like real quirky. Like he just rides his bike around. He's eccentric. Yes. That he brings his friends in to a lot of what he works on.

Jeremy Piven. Jeremy Piven. He flew out, like, for that scene, the bros scene, he flew out his buddies on his own dime to shoot that scene because he's like, I mean, I may as well give them some work. I love that. But they didn't feel like actors in that scene. It felt like real dudes in the 80s.

Jeremy Piven. Outside a gas station. Regardless of the man himself is very funny in this movie. Yeah. Great for that part. Great for that part. We'll see again in PCU. Yes.

Kwan. Can we do a movie? PCU episode. Sure, yeah. I don't know what that word goes. I love it. Yeah. Wake up! Wake up! Blow me where the Pampers are. Excuse me. Oh my God, dude. So funny. But also, you've got Eric Stoltz as well as one of the crazy high schoolers and also probably a Cusack buddy. This was post a few years from back to the future, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So he's just like, I mean, that whole thing's so fucked up, but he just kept working. He was never like not a working at. He went to Cameron Crowe and asked him if he could

do this and also he worked as a professional quote unquote professional PA, which was essentially what they called him to give him some money to hang out with John Kusack on set. And he was just like, yeah, I'm just like your pro on set. So that's why he's in the scenes that he's in because he was just kind of around. And here's a fun little casting factor. It's probably a connector through James L. Brooks and The Simpsons. But voice of Homer, Dan Kestl. is uncredited as Diane's teacher. Oh, that's fun. Oh, interesting.

Little facts. Isn't that fun? Yeah. Uh, yeah, that's all I have on the cast. Let's move on to filming. Uh, not a ton on, uh, the actual shoot here, but I will say a lot of, but I will say. Yeah. Everyone thought that they were fucking in real life because of the connection that they had.

Didn't they kind? They have dabbled. They have, and I think it's really fun. I hope that time is not good. She was 16. No, but she was in a relationship. No, no, in the future. In the future.

have like a kind of a, I think some fun hookups throughout there. She says about every five years. Yeah. And I think it's very funny. They're just like, yeah, we still stay in contact because they were so into each other. Right. And she even said, it was difficult for her because during the car driving scene, she said, I was so turned on in the scene.

And she was talking to John Cusk in an interview by you as I was crossing your lap. If we didn't have boyfriends and girlfriends, this is the day we would have gone home together or maybe sooner. And Q's tax reply, awesome. And apparently the day that they shot that car driving scene, Ione's guy's real life boyfriend waited around for her in the trailer all, which she said was really annoying. And she says that in another life, she and John would have been a great love.

And that their romantic attraction to each other really kept that, you know, kept that physical heat on screen. but then it really was, she's like, yeah, every five years, we kind of like hook up. I'm glad they didn't have sex when she was 16. Well, I know that, I wonder what boyfriend that was, because I do know that early on in life, she had a pretty long-lasting relationship with Anthony Kytis of the Red Hot Chili. I believe that that was the relationship she was in. Which again, I sure.

He was a different time, I guess. No, he's very problematic. Yeah, he's in. Oh, yeah, no, he's disgusting. That whole band is weird. But her father, and not to say this, but like her father was Donovan. I bet she was on the fucking scene really early. And I, it seems, and you can see this, like, I wasn't like that at 16.

I wasn't able to, like, hold my own at 16. And I don't think that it is right whatsoever. But I feel like in, you know, 1988 was this. Yeah. It was a different that it wouldn't have been as yucky. I mean, I still think it's. I think it was 90, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But they were filming in, you know, the 80s. And yeah, for sure. You can't go back and change shit. You can't, you know. At least they were like similar in age. Anthony Kedis' age gaps kept getting wider and wider. Oh, yeah, no, no, no. It's disgusting.

But back to the manifesto I was talking about earlier. Why does the gap in fleas teeth? Am I right? Hey, yo. There I found it. Going back, yeah, yeah. So Cusack wrote a manifesto that was several pages long, and he said, one of the items on that manifesto for Lloyd Dobler was the bought, sold, and processed line.

The line is, I don't want to sell anything. buy anything or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed or buy anything sold or processed. I love it. Or process anything sold, bought, or process or repair anything sold, bought, or processed, you know, as a career, I don't want to do that.

He wrote, that was the line that John Keseak. Great. Because he felt that that was a foundation of how this character would feel. And it's so funny because that's just capitalism. So all of capitalism you don't want to be a part of it. But also, looking back at this, this is why people from Gen X are probably so bitter.

Like, they're supposed to choose their career at 17. And Bebe Newark's character's like, you're the only one that hasn't decided what you're going to do yet. Got to start your life now. And he's like, uh, why? I'm 17. I mean, it's been kind of forced in by student debt generally.

But the idea now is, I think in most cases, like take at least a year and just like work a job and like just figure, think about what you want after high school and then you're probably going to change careers at some point in your life because you don't know what you want at that age. I was like one of the ones where people were like wow you're really like on a path like going to theater school and even I had this dumb idea of like I have to become a serious actor with my life because I can't just do comedy that's crazy you know what I mean?

Even that was like off base completely for what I really wanted to do and I didn't figure that out for two more years. Sure. I could just do comedy. comedy. But regardless, the filming, a lot of stuff ha ha hapand in Los Angeles. Uh, yeah. I know it's set in Seattle, but a lot of the shots were done in Los Angeles, including the famous boombox scene. We'll get to that later. Seattle still maintains a presence throughout the film. Crows' follow-up film singles would also be set in Seattle at the height of the grunge movement.

And this shows Seattle in its precursor form to that. The, yeah. And I will say that, and we'll talk about this in just a little bit about the music and the soundtrack, that Nancy Wilson, who was the wife of Cameron Crow during this, who is also the head of the band, Heart, pushed for the movie to be set in Seattle because of the burgeoning music that was coming from there. And she wanted more, then that's also why singles was set there as well. But there are many, very angry things written about how this movie says it's in Seattle. didn't shoot it in Seattle, and that's not Seattle. And it's just so upset about it because they're butt hurt that grunge is over.

And you know, it's done, but at the time, what a beautiful little love letter. I know that it wasn't all shot in Seattle. But also, this isn't about the grunge. No, that's what, like, way more is, the singles is about that. Yes. Yes. Most of the stuff, but they do see, like, a lot of times when he's in the car and you see different landmarks and things, those are Seattle, like,

mainstays and stuff. And in fact that the monument that she sees that are dressed up for the graduation day, they actually usually in that town dress up the monument for different fun events. Nice. That's fun. Yeah, so they did bring up part of Seattle into it, you meanies out there. Yeah, you fucking weird people who are weird about this movie. You weird, weird. But I will also say we talked about how like the pedigree is so crazy here, Cameron Crow, John Cusack, James El Brooks, Polly Platt. The cinematographer, Laslo Kovacs. Crazy.

Holy shit. Yes. Cinematographer DP on Easy Rider, Butch Cassidy and the Sunday Nuts Kid, which is like amazingly shot. Paper Moon, the last waltz. It just brought up the level of this movie, which again, we talked about this in other

rom-coms as well, that the people that work on it, when you can come together to make so much more than just the romance. The editor the editor Richard Mark's fucking apocalypse now Godfather part two yeah pretty and pink yeah which makes sense of why originally this was tied to Lawrence Kazdan it makes a lot more sense that they were trying to essentially build a super team to make this movie it's incredible the the people who worked on this film and the costume design including the costume design

You know, she started her career doing costumes for Death Race 2000. In 1970, fucking, fucking love that movie. Yes, we're talking about Jane Room. And, man, you know what I fucking like about movies? What? The motherfucking cock-sucking costume design. Yeah, bro. That QSack, you know, the signature, the signature outfit with the Clash T-shirt, he said it was a really odd time when I look back on it.

I remember it being a savage time in a weird way. Ronald Reagan was talking about nuclear war. So I was into the clash and I was into world consciousness. And he actually dressed just like Lloyd Dobler. A lot of the clothes were his own, which makes a lot of sense. And he was also just against Ronald Reagan, bro. But you know what he wasn't against? Trenches.

Oh, he loves trench warfare. Before idiots ruined trench coats for us. This fucking look rules. God, so hot. So hot in this movie. Good Lord. Yeah, Jane Room, as we said, came out of that kind of B movie, Roger Corman World. But she got more into the Big Leaves when she was hired on Steven Spielberg's anthology show Amazing Stories.

Oh, cool. And then actually was getting hired onto the Tracy Olman Show produced by James L. Brooks. I think that's what kind of connected her to this, got her to this film. And she just really, and right, Tracy Olman show, you think about the costume work on that is phenomenal. Yeah, for sure. So yeah, that whole look, man, the trench coat, clash T-shirt, jogging pants, and sneakers. I mean, it's just absolutely is the 80s, I feel like. Yeah, and it's subtle too where the thing that I hated as a teenager, about 10 things I hate about you,

I think they, now that I really appreciate, which I think they did in this movie as well, is it's not, they're not wearing clothes that are over the budget of what you would be wearing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he's a real budget. Yeah, exactly. And his car and everything represents, like, a real fucking kid. It's a real slice of life of this time period. Totally.

And it wasn't that you watch it. And there's so many things from the 80s that you watch and you're like, Jesus Christ, look, because again, they blow it up of like, not everybody looked like that in the 80s and had like the big hair. And this is what a normal snapshot. And that house party. Yeah. Right.

Oh, this is what it was like. Yeah. I believe that. Yeah, this to me, this must have been what it was like to be a teenager in the 80s. Oh, yeah, debauchous. Yeah.

Let's talk about that for a second. The whole part where it's like, I'll be home before dawn. Before, I know. Can you imagine it? And just the idea that like, and I feel like this is what's true for the 80s, like all the parents know they're going to a party to drink.

Like, that's no secret. You know, it's completely allowed. I was talking with my sister about this. She's like, there were times when I'd be like, mom, I'll see you on Monday. And she would just be gone for the weekend. And it was like, we didn't have a cell phone.

She couldn't fucking find me. She had no idea what I was doing. It was like, that's horrifying. As of, like, can you imagine as a parent just being like, well, try not to die or get pregnant? That's literally it. That was me as a kid because I was bad. Right.

And even the overprotected kid is, Ioni's, Diane is like, I'll be home before, you know, by Dawn. Yeah. The reason I could buy that, though, from this dad was because she's such a goody two shoes that, like, he, you know. She called. Yeah, she's calling like, hi, dad, hello, I'm sober. Until she doesn't.

That's right. She got that fucking dick. Wait, that dude, bro. But then she immediately talks about it. Yeah. So I feel so much more comfortable just saying the truth to you. But I think that was seen was marked there to be like she tells him everything. Oh, yeah, definitely.

And he's making big fucking lies. Yeah. No, for sure. And that was her biggest thing about what he did. It was the lies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think as far as the costume and going back to that, her dress for the party, I think was really perfect in that... She doesn't know how to be young. Right. But it's also very simple.

Like, it's not too sexy and it's definitely not too young because everybody else is dressed a little bit more immature at the party. But, like, I think they did a really good representation of her and made her look very angelic and everything. I like that outfit.

Any more about the costumes before we move on to that boombox. I don't think so. All right, so that boombox scene, Cameron Crowe said, it's when you're at the peak of loving a song, and the song is speaking to you so loudly. I thought, what if you take this song to the person that you're thinking about and just listen to it with them? But I didn't know how it was going to turn out.

And fun fact, and by fun, I mean disappointing. The actors weren't even in the same place for the boombox scene. John Cusack also was actually in our neck of the woods in a park in North Hollywood, maybe even where I did my baby show. up the place where you did your baby shower. Or y'all did my baby shower rather. Is it actually that park?

It is that park. It is literally that park. I could tell. I watched the scene. I was like, I think that's the fucking part. I didn't know that. Isn't that amazing? Yep.

And I was like, I looked at, I was like, I have to find out because they said it was in North Hollywood across from a 7-Eleven. And I was like, it can't be. And I scoured and I found out exactly where it was. And yes. Wow. So that is really fun. But they weren't even in the same place.

And in fact, they weren't even listening to. In your eyes. So Crow came up with the idea. He wanted this scene, right? Yes. John Cusack, not on board with the scene. No. And his wife, Cameron Crow's wife, Nancy Wilson, the guitarist from heart, he had hit

a mental block. And they were supposed to go somewhere and she was running late to get ready. And so he was sitting in the car waiting for her to get ready. And he put on a mixtape that was left over from their 1986 wedding of just the things that they listened to in the reception. And the song, To Be a Lover by Billy Idol came on. That was originally the song that was supposed to be in the slot. He also tried other songs as well, but it just wasn't hitting what it wanted to hit.

The smithereens were one of them. They turned in a track for it called A Girl Like You, which is in the soundtrack, because he thought that it was too close to the plot of the movie to be used in the scene. When the time came to film the scene, Kusack was actually playing Bonin in the the bone yard by one of his favorite band's fishbone. Yeah, I love fishbone. So great. I shot a movie with, what's his name?

Oh my God. What's his name? The singer? I don't know his name. Fishbone. It's embarrassing. I got to say. I could look this up to you really quick.

Angelo Carmen. Angelo, yeah. So yeah, I did actually shot a movie on Warb Tour with Angelo for a summer. They're crazy. They're crazy. And if you haven't checked out Fishbone, I feel like Scott people get mad at me for saying because everyone gets mad about music for some reason, but they are kind of a basis, a foundation for ska music, right?

In a lot of ways, or, like, a big part of the ska. Yeah, I don't know if they be foundation, but they definitely are ska adjacent at the very least. Or, like, I think a huge influence, too, on, like, especially more modern Scott, or, like, when Scott really got over, like, super popular. But that's part of the reason how he got John Kusk to do it because he loves Fishbone.

He's like, all right, well, then I'll do this. We'll shoot this. and so he listens to the wedding tape and in your eyes comes on and he's like, that's it! That's the fucking song. So he goes to James Brooks. He said, we've got to get this song. So they call up Geffen Records,

and apparently Peter Gabriel wasn't too keen on giving the song up for a movie. They hit up Rosanna Arquette, who Peter Gabriel was dating and supposedly wrote the song In Your Eyes for, and she put in a good word because she really likes Cameron Crow. And Peter Gabriel was like,

all right, fine. I'll watch the movie and I'll let you know if you can use the song. He watches the movie and apparently Cameron Crow was in Germany at the time and he's sitting and he's waiting for him to watch this film. He calls him up and he said, Peter Gabriel says, I appreciate you asking for the song. It's a very personal song to me and I just hope you don't mind

that I have to turn you down. And Cameron Crow was like, oh, fuck, all right, dude, I guess. And he's like, why? I have to ask why. Why was it wrong? And he said, well, when he takes the overdose, I just didn't feel like this. is the right kind of use of the song. And I'm like, what are you talking about? What overdose?

And he's like, yeah, you're making the John Belushi story, right? They were talking about the John Belushi biopic wired. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. It's the movie with the guy in high school with the trench coat. And he's like, oh, the high school movie. Yeah, we haven't watched that yet. He's like, can you please watch it? And please get back to me.

He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he ends up saying yes. I just don't know how those two are confused with one. I don't know. That's so funny. And he really, like, they, and then he wanted an exorbitant amount of money. And James L. Brooks was like, I don't know if we can do it.

And, like, when we were just talking about with the costuming and stuff like that, Cameron Girl was like, all right, we need to make this happen, took money away from the other things from the movie. And, like, people even took, I think, pay cuts and shit like that so that he could get the song that he wanted for the scene. And at least it was an iconic scene. Yeah, at least we're going to go do all of that. Oh, yeah.

And it's a great song. And the song's perfect for the scene. You also mentioned how Kuzak was reluctant to even do the scene, and I think that actually is what led to the performance that we get and led to what it makes it so special. Kroes said, Kuzak thought it was too subservient. The defiance that he has when he's doing the scene is what makes the scene great.

He made it work, the way he performs it. It's just blatantly defying you to consider it cheesy. That's why he's so heroic in that moment. He's still doubting whether the boombox scene is going to work at all. He's kind of fighting for the scene. I just love, as you see, knowing that and rewatching it, you absolutely see that. And then, of course, Ione also was super uncomfortable in her dress that day and had a lot of trepidation about. She said you could see, which I also then in watching the scene, she was like, my stomach looked so fat in the nightgown.

And that's all I could think of all I was shooting the scene. And you can see how she uncomfortably puts her hands on her stomach. And I was like, man, we've all been there before. Yeah. like don't draw attention to your stomach. But it's like still a non-existent teenage girl thing. But it doesn't matter. I mean, you should still feel comfortable in the scene.

But still that's what makes it's his defiance, his defiantly holding the voice and her absolute discomfort in the moment that just screams awkward teen moment that is like no one's sure if they're actually doing the right thing, but they've got to do it because they just feel so strongly about. He feels so strongly. I mean, he doesn't even know what to do. Yeah, it's great. And the way that it's directed too, like the, like you said,

where it's a defiant move where it's not, he's just not passively holding it over his head. He's like, you can almost feel him like trying to like throw it in hair or something. And that camera stays on him

so much longer than his comfortable, right? Yeah. Yeah. Again, that is, he's really good with silence, silent moments and like not making, same thing with Spielberg.

Like, making those imperfect dialogue scenes, keeping them in. Yeah. Like when the kid messes up the pain thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He takes like five seconds to remember what the line is and he screams pain. That's so much funnier that way. The kid is so good. Oh, it's so good. Uh-oh, Jackie. Goose. I think you may have mentioned this, but moving on to the music, John Cusack did have quite a hand in choosing what songs would go on the soundtrack and be in the movie as well.

He was very enthusiastic about that. He was a big replacements fan. That's how Within Your Reach ends up. And in fact, the rest of the soundtrack was in complete collaboration of Cameron Crow, John Cusack, and Nancy Wilson, who worked on the entire Say Anything soundtrack with Richard Gibbs and Anne Dudley. And Crowe and Nancy Wilson also then commissioned John Bettis and Martin Page to write the ballad, all for love, which Wilson then sings at the end of the movie.

And I don't remember if I said this on the episode or not, but Nancy Wilson also wrote all of the Joe's songs for Lily Taylor to perform, went on set, talk Lily Taylor how to play him, because she knew a little bit of guitar. And so Nancy Wilson had a large influence in this movie. Heart's the best. God, I love heart!

But really breaks Cameron Crow's heart later on. Wow. For this story. Yeah, living color, cheap trick, Depeche mode. I mean, it's just an incredible soundtrack. Lies when he cries I want that as a soundtrack I want the album of songs from her

I would hear all of them Yeah Oh 60, was it 60 songs? Yeah, there's so many of them Joe, by the way, very disappointing to have that many songs about him subpar as a man As a young man

Yeah I want to have sex I want to have sex See you later Joe See a later Joe See a later Joe I have just a question quote left and I am done with my

fun big fucking facts. I do want to say real quick that apparently NBC tried to make a say anything the TV show without including Cameron Crow, John Cusack, or Ione Sky. So Cameron Crow publicly went after it and even though NBC was like,

we tried to contact him and he's like no you fucking didn't. You could have gotten a hold of me. That's absolutely ridiculous. I will sue you. And eventually they just kind of back down. It's definitely a movie I think that is like perfect as a standalone. Please don't remake it. I can't imagine trying to make that a show. They're going to remake. You know they're going to remake it. Well, Cameron Crowe will have nothing to do with it. He was like I, it's like, I thought about it for a bit of time and thought about where they would be. But I think that the ending with the ding and having an open-ended possibility of what could be is such a quintessential thing to say about when you jump off of the platform of leaving your home for the first. time. You know what they could do actually, like a before sunset scenario? Sure, yeah.

Where they've, where we see them, next time we see them, they're actually meeting up again. They've been broken up for like decades. And now they're older and they've gone through like all this life stuff and they're maybe married off even and stuff. And they're like meet up and have this like, fuck so hard. Yeah. Rhymed. On the boombox.

Or maybe a story centered around a sentient boombox that goes around as like a Cupid character. making you. Oh my God, I love it. I love that for us and I love our journey. All right, shall I do this quote and tell this one? Brooks, this quote from James L. Brooks, to close it out. I believe that the most important thing about this picture is that we have created a subtly different kind of young hero and heroin. What makes the hero so special is that he meets a spectacular girl so spectacular

that he automatically is willing to spend his life celebrating hers. In reality, it's usually the reverse. Women have traditionally served men's gifts. Although this is something we don't directly address in the film, it is something we all spent a great deal of time discussing. From a woman's perspective, Lloyd is an ideal man, a dream man. Not many men have the talent to be so supportive,

especially when they are 18 or 19 years old. He's perfect. I love Lloyd Dobler. But also don't, but also maybe not. But also don't, but also do, but also don't. And it is, it's just like such a back and forth. And I love that scene of his female friends that were like, I mean, I would date Lloyd. wouldn't you?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course I would. It's just so, that's the stuff for me that I'm like, well, that wasn't my fucking deal.

But also what I like that they did capsulate as one of those friends of like, yeah, I had a lot, I mean, our relationship hold didn't, number one, you know, like, it goes to show of like,

no, we've always been friends. I've always wanted the best for you. I think that it's awesome. I think you're such a good person. I don't want to fuck you, but I hope that other people get to fuck you. I've actually,

I will say I do connect to Lloyd in the sense that I have had a lot of very platonic relationships with women throughout my life. And I treasure those almost more than the ones with the guys. Because again, I think he even talks about it. He was like, I should probably be friends with the guys more. And he goes and it's like a nightmare. I've probably gotten a lot more out of my relationship,

platonic relationships with the-bitches, man. With bitches, bro. Dirty fucking bitches, bro. All right, thank you so much everybody for joining us. This is our episode on Say Anything. My name is Holden. Check me out on Twitch.tv.tv. Fulner's Ho.

We have fun Monday, Tuesday, Friday, and it's always a Nancy. Also, check out. I don't know, that's my new tagline. It's always a Nancy. That's a new tagline. Also, Patreon.com forward slash page 7 podcast. And check us out there if you want to support us further.

And that way. And Natalie? You can listen to someplace underneath where we have fond. on talking about missing women. Amber Nelson is on it with me and you can listen to that on the LPN wherever you listen to podcasts.

Yeah, my name is Jackie Zabroski. You can follow me on Instagram at Jack That Worm and Gum Check us out Tuesdays and Thursday nights over on Twitch.tvon. Oh, no, it's Jackie for sex and fashion. And remember, it's always a Nancy. It is always a Nancy. Let's get the hell out of here.

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