Page 7 - REEEEEEWIIIIIND 1995

Episode Date: August 24, 2023

We're headin' to 1995 a time long ago when POGS roamed freely across the golden plains, Holden was in Middle School realizing life was nothing but pain, MJ discovered the existence of sad bois via the "When I Come Around" music video, and BASKETBALL JACKIE REIGINED SUPREME (and learned some problematic life lessons)! Toy Story sets the stage for a CGI dynasty, Blues Travelers ruled the airwaves with an iron harmonica, a small website named Amazon sold its first book, Nickelodeon and MTV were droppin' classics, OJ's gloves did NOT fit AND SO MUCH MORE IN THIS 95 REWINDDDDD!!!Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser are going on TOUR! Dates and links to tickets at lastpodcastnetwork.com Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's time for more. Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser present, release the butthole cut tour coming to you in September and October. Where are we heading in September, Jackie? We're going on September 12th. We're going to Nashville. We're going on September 13th to Atlanta, Georgia. And then I're going back to my hometown, September 14th of Tampa, Florida. In October, October 3rd, we're going to be in Detroit, Michigan, October 4th. We're going to be in Columbus. And October 5th, we're going to be in Pittsburgh. K-7 and Wizard the Bruiser-Bruset Release the Butthole Cut Tour. You can find tickets at last podcastnetwork.com, baby. Oh, my God, you're opening with that.

Oh, don't go, where did you go? This is how we do it. Oh, yeah. This is how we do it. Bit spied in most of our lives, living in against the paradise. It's the summer of that music video. That's sweaty man. God, that guy was so sweaty, dude.

Yeah, dozee roll. Yeah, just don't know any of the other words aside that. Oh, are you kidding me? Cotton, Candy, Sweet and Lo! Let me see a Tootty Row! I think I just remember thinking those lyrics were genius, and I would be correct. Welcome to 1995, everybody. Yes, we are doing our page 7, rewind.

all the way back to 1995. Some call it the good old days. Some say, no, thank you, would rather not think about it. Some do say that about 1985. We got to say that. But you know who won't say no thank you?

Marcus Parks, man, because fantasy by Mariah Carey also 1995. And if there's one thing that I remember about Marcus, he loves fantasy by Mariah Carey. Fantasy, baby. It's a great, it's, come on. It's undeniable. Like say what she wants.

You can say, oh, Mariah Carey's just a fucking nightmare. She's an awful, just a shit show. Everything about her sucks and everything about her fucks. Whoa. But that song is really good. I think Marcus likes it because his, I think his boner likes it more than anything. I love, I love Mariah. Yeah, I think Holden's bonner.

Doesn't your boner go flat flat for that? No, it was around that. It was a little after that time when she went real hey-hay with the Tay-Tays. You know what I mean? She was showing them taas. That doesn't make any sense. That's when your boner woke up for Maria Carrie. You like a crazy.

Mariah Carey. Yeah, there was, I really like, yeah, Rainbow era. There are so many, so many more songs that we need to sing, you guys. We got Buddy Holly. We got run around by blues traveler. You got Buddy Holly? When I come around, my sexual awakening. Wow.

Oh my. Wait, now, right. Let's talk about, how is that your sexual awakening? You know, he's a sad boy walking around. That's the music video. That's your type. Wait, wait, that's a boy walking around. Wait, is this all? It is. It's also, oh, God. That, okay, gangsters, this was like the summer of songs from movies coming out that we just were on repeat because also Kiss from a Rose. This was this year of Batman forever. And I just remember, Kiss from a Rose, especially on VH1, but you were kind of going back and forth between MTV and VH1. And it was on constantly, and the weirdest thing about it is like, that's such a weird song to constantly cut to like shots of Jim Carrey as the riddler.

You know what I mean? It was just so weird and you always had that. And then Gangsters Paradise was another one where, man, you just couldn't get away from that song. Slap more Michelle Pfeiffer. I wanted more Michelle Pfeiffer in the music video. I'm a creep, yeah. That album, Darked out chasing

Waterfalls and the Boys to Men album? Oh my God. I mean, there is so many good songs this year. You ought to know, Alanis Morissette. A lot of Moody and the Blowfish. We could talk about them or not.

Why, you want to get me the run around. Oh, yeah. What about Missa Boombastic? Evany fantastic. That song, which I didn't realize I didn't know that Shaggy was around in 1995. I could have sworn that was a 2000s. When was, it wasn't me.

That was definitely not 95, but I feel like I, I feel like Shaggy emerged into my consciousness. That was 2000. I think that was the album, that hot shot album is the one that we were the most familiar with. But I mean, Mr. Bumbastic. And I think when I come around, I mean, when I, if that's on here, So Duky was released in 1994, which means 1995, I mean, I'm firmly, I believe in middle school at this point.

I have to do a crunch of the numbers on that. But some of the worst years of my life and also like I remember this was also like, this is. But this is also like I got a, you know, CD player, I think around this time for the first time. I was a Green Day, you know, because you kind of pick one. Yeah. When you're first getting into music, Green Day was my absolute number. number one. Yes, exactly. Just Woodstock 94 had happened just last year.

So I mean, probably was getting the CD, the double triple CD for that in 95, probably. And so it was, it was definitely like a pivotal, pivotal time for me when it came to just like go in full, lean in full into music to try to escape how miserable I was at school. It was a great era for buying CDs and listening to only that CD for maybe that. whole year, you know. Guys, I'm 13, guys. I'm fucking 13. Yeah. So I don't know if I got, I don't know if I got the CD player.

I may have gotten it Christmas of this year. I'm not sure. I remember Nirvana Unplugged was my first CD. I remember that and I literally listened to it like as like it was my first CD. I listened to it over and fucking over again. Unplugged happened in 1993 at the end of that year. Oh, you're, you're going to have a very different experience. We all have a little bit of a different.

experience of all of our rewinds because of our age difference. Yeah, but you were in middle school, you were fully aware of how much everything fucking sucked. I was firm. I was nine. And so I didn't yet really know why everything sucked, but I had a 13 year old brother, so I knew that he thought everything sucked, you know, and I was like, yeah, maybe everything does suck. But I was nine, I was kind of cosplaying the angry boy that I really was on the inside, you know, also that said, I was a pretty sad nine-year-old. So, I was a pretty sad nine-year-old. So, I was. I was a pretty sad nine-year-old. So I I think that when I come around really spoke to me and my inner sad boy because I was very lonely at this time, did not have a lot of friends, was really struggling socially. And it was a great time to be angsty because there was a lot of great angsty music.

Jackie, you would have been, what, seven and a half? I was, yeah, about, I was eight. I was eight. And I remember this was around the time that I was like a ballist, let's call it. I would see the only time in my life that, like, this was the time when I was like really big into back. basketball. I was really, that was when I started playing softball. That's when, like, I played soccer for a while. Like, I was really into, and I was just like, this is my. Really? And that happened. The jock jack jacky happened at eight years old and it ended at eight years old.

Because I remember that for this is, maybe this is too much of a confession. Now I feel like I'm in therapy. I remember that I went to go get, like, they were doing like your pictures and I remember I had to hold a bat, and I was holding the bat, and then they put your pictures on a trading card. And I remember that at the age of eight was the first time I learned that I should lie about my weight. No. Because on the trading card, it said like,

no, wait, like it was like, oh, like, and so I, and I remember when I was like, they don't really need to know. So we wrote a fake number, and I was like, oh, so that's how it works. Oh, I should be ashamed of it. Oh my God. And then I stopped playing ball, which you know what happens when you stop playing ball? You get fatter. I can't believe they made you put your, what could go wrong?

Just line up a bunch of eight-year-olds and make them put their weight on a piece of paper that they'll trade with their friends. Who could get hurt? I mean, I don't think most things are better now. I thought that for a while, but I'm not sure if that's true anymore. But I like to think that we no longer make kids just talk. talk about their weight in front of others all the time, although maybe they do. I don't know if they still do the presidential physical fitness tests. The presidential physical fitness test. Does that still happen in school? Why did they do that to us? That is, I think, child torture.

I feel like that has to be done at this. Or like, why was every PE teacher seemingly completely unaware of the effects of asthma on children or dogs? Like, what is that? Why was that Every year, every single year was like people who were literally clearly struggling to like stay alive after a mile run. They were just like, yeah, they were just like, what's wrong with you? What, you can't do it? I can do it. I can do it. Lexi, Lexi, who's horribly asthmatic, always talked about how fucking horrific the experience was in PEClass.

There was just like no knowledge of, like literally no adult in her life believed that asthma. was real. It was like, you know what I mean? In many ways, the past was much worse. We have now, I think I think we have a little arc where things were getting better. And now I'm like, I don't know, man, I think we're a society in decline. But the, shout out to maintenance phase. He did a whole episode on a, that's like a health and wellness, like kind of skeptical of health and wellness trends podcast called maintenance phase. They did a whole episode on the physical, presidential physical fitness test. And it looks like it basically kind of segued

under the Obama's into like a slightly less shameful program. It's now called the presidential. Yeah. Oh, so you're not weighed in front of everybody anymore? In 2012, the president's council launched the presidential youth fitness program. So it was it was kind of shifted to like a more comprehensive thing with like health. You know, Michelle Obama did her whole improve the food in the schools. thing. So I think that it...

Oh, her arms. I know good arms. It might be better, but it, you know, I honestly, I still think it's pretty bad out there. I think that it's, I think kids still get a ton of weight shame constantly. And I think that the way we talk about food and kids is still really messed up, you know. And it is, it is, that's a little, but that I remember, because my brother also did a lot of organized sports. And I remember the little baseball cards. But my, my brother also did a lot of organized sports. but my brother is a skinny kid. I never thought at the time,

what social impact must this have on kids? Oh my God. Absolute nightmare. But you know what I hid behind? Bada-da-b-b-b-b-da-pub-bop-bop-bop-bop-bap-bap-bap-bap-bap-bap. That awful song. Scatman came out in 1995. Why don't either one if you care?

You hid behind the song Scatman. There's so many other songs I want to be singing right now. I want to shame you for that. Yeah, I want to shame you for that. Yeah. I want to weigh you in front of everybody right now. That's awful. That's awful.

Get on the scale, Jackie. Get on the scale. I was definitely, look, this was definitely like some of the darkest times of my life. Like, I can't believe I still look back on middle school. I'm like, yeah, that really was like the worst. But it really was because I just was just so unhappy all the time. I definitely was probably like just fine. finding theater as an escape. I think starting in sixth grade. Like, sixth grade was a big eye

opener year. Like, oh, things are different. Things are bad. I think I'm in seventh grade this year, seventh into eighth grade. I believe it's not till next year because seven, the movie seven comes out in at the, in September of 1995. I was just looking this up. What's in the box? I saw it on, we rented it from Blockbuster. I believe at the beginning of summer in 1996. And I watched that movie and it triggers something deep inside me. I don't know why it did this, but, like, I couldn't sleep. You identified with sloth. I, yeah.

I just, I was so deeply disturbed. Sorry, that was me. I, uh, I was so deeply disturbed by that movie. I hadn't really watched something that, like, got me, like, like, ever like that. Yeah. And it kind of understood, like, the power of, uh, of film and, and just seeing, and also the power of just seeing something, not like, you. you know, maybe you're not ready for, even now on the internet, I avoid so much shit. I mean,

I haven't seen so much of the stuff that people talk about as being so horrifically disturbing that they just caught randomly on like something rotten or something like that. You know what I mean? But that, that comes out in 96 and I have this kind of weird summer where like I couldn't sleep and then I realized I was like depressed and I realized you can't just like sit around and just like watch TV and movies all summer. Like you're going to like have a, bad time if you just stay inside and do that for hours on end. This is the summer, like, before that, though, that I'm just doing that. Like, you're at the age now.

You can feed yourself. You, you, but you don't have, like, I didn't have a bike, so you don't only have the ability to, like, get around even in that way. But I could feed myself, take care of myself, and entertain myself. And, like, yada, yada, yada. So I think my, I think that's kind of an age where a lot of parents, because you're also pushing more for independence, where a lot of parents, maybe, check out a little too much.

And I feel like that's kind of what happened for me. Like it was just like... When you needed a little bit more input. Because adults are also terrified of preteens and teenagers, right? Like they don't know how to relate to them. And so they're like, oh, he needs space. But like, what you really needed was like some emotional connection. Or at least

someone being like, I'm signing you up for this fucking thing. Where I need, I think it was like I needed something you know, someone just like maybe still signing me up for shit, even though I maybe he didn't want to, or, like, figuring out, like, he's really into music and he's really into theater. Maybe we could, like, find some program or something for him, as opposed to just being like,

he seems fine. I'm just sitting on the couch, like, eating Ritz Crackers out of the package and, like, just fucking watch at Price is right. It seems fine. Also, though, I think I'm the youngest of two. It's, like, for them, I think it's also, like, we did it, Joe. We're, yeah. I can, yeah, we're good.

Let them watch the babysitter alone in the basement, which is what I'm. I was doing. Do you remember the Alicia Silverstone film The Baby Sitter that also came out in 1995? Oh, yeah. I'm so looking at it right now. Very scary. Yes.

A lot of things to be sad to in 1995. Yeah, so. This is the deepest throes of my like TV junkie days, you know? And I just, and just remember like trying to really grapple with like, okay, life kind of sucks right now. Like, where do we find relief from that? I'm starting to play a little, like, I think I'm just starting to like play some music with people in a band. I think Varanis is happening at this point. Did you get a PlayStation this year? Because that's the year, PlayStation's came out.

No, I, Final Fantasy 7. It was closer to the release of that. That was 97. So no, I'm still a Sega Genesis kid at this point as well. And so therefore, yeah, video games maybe not as. is hot at the moment, for sure, but definitely like a blockbuster kid. A, give me some, you know, I want some candy and some Coca-Cola's and a few. And this might have been the summer where my mom, I just, even if this wasn't the summer, this was so amazing. My mom's co-worker just clearly had like a giant library of VHS tapes and she kept them all in a catalog. And she had her own like rental service she ran.

And so I filled out this giant, like, I checked off this giant list of different movies I wanted. And then using that, she would throw in movies that based on my checkoffs to, like, add in. And that was the summer I saw, like, do the right thing for the first time. And just all these fucking movies, like, because literally my mom every week would show up with a giant, like, grocery bag filled with VHS tapes. And I would just devour it. Like, this is when I'm just starting to become a huge cinephile. That's like a pretty good hobby for a middle schooler to have. Also very weird, so weird to think. But I'm horizontal a lot.

I'm horizontal a lot. I'm not. And really, honestly, like, after my depression summer, like, by the end of it, it was like, you have to make an effort to spend more time with, like, friends and stuff. But also, you've got to go. Like, I started running. That was like the, that's, the end of that summer, I started exercise. It was like, if you're going to sit on your ass all day and, like, eat snacks and watch TV,

you have to go out and fucking. You have to join the baseball team. You have to wear your body out. Like, yeah, you got to do. Oh, no, not the baseball team. But to be fair, I was the one being, you know, getting signed up for basketball and hating every second of it. And, you know what I mean?

And yada, yada, yada. I just, I wonder that I could have been put into like a theater program or something for, like, kids my age. But it was hard because also. And they are the most baffling age. Like, I taught middle school for five years. They are the most baffling age for adults to relate to because their thing is, like, they act like, I don't want anything to do with you. And so a lot of adults are like, okay.

I'll give you some space, but they're still very much children on the inside. They desperately, desperately, desperately end up. It's a very, very difficult time. And that's how I ended up seeing seven before I should have, you know, because I thought I was just this adult already that could handle whatever. And I'd seen a ton of movies at that point. And, you know, and then I watched that movie. It was like, oh, I'm still very much a kid.

And that fucked with something deep inside of me. That was, like, way too advanced for me. And it just triggered this whole thing. Now, where were you guys at? I mean, I guess you already explained, Jackie. Yeah, but at the same time, I feel like it's so interesting that, like, it starts so young. Because even as you talk about this at 13, I'm like, yeah, but I specifically remember when the Indian. Oh, yes, I remember that.

I remember that. And talking about movies to put you in a weird mood that came out around this time for our age group. Yes. just was like, why was this, like, powder and shit? He was just like, well, this movie is basically a weird. So sad. And like, there's, and I'm looking at all these movies that came out this year of just like, man, I was such a sad. That's also what I'm realizing.

Why was I was so sad. I was sad. I don't think, and this is, like, everyone knows middle schoolers are sad. It doesn't mean they don't need a lot of help. I think people know middle schoolers are sad, but they don't know what to do about it. And what I was experiencing this year. I'm a cliche. What I was experiencing at this time was like, I was very sad.

And I don't think anybody understood that people who are like pre-adolescent can be sad. Like I didn't think, I don't think people understood that you're like very, like, very depressed. And did you have a source for that sadness? Were you like bored a lot? I remember like boredom being a source of kind of sadness because it was like I just felt very on my own around that age a lot of times and kind of like sort like not always stimulated. stuff. Like I, like, I think, I'm sure that when we did the year 1997, I talked about how in sixth grade, I kind of like decided, all right, you want me to be a girl? I'll be a girl. And I like, cut my hair with bangs and started wearing bell bottoms and like little dragon baby

teas and stuff. But before that, I dressed like a boy and I, I, you know, had short hair like a boy and all that. And that was not yet cool in 1995. And so, it. And so, it. And, you know, I had short hair like a boy and I, I, you know, And, you know, it was like, the social, the psychic social drama also of, like, being a kid at that age. Again, nobody really thinks that it can be that serious because you're not in middle school yet. But, you know, I had one friend, but she was doing the thing where she was like, I'm your friend today, but not tomorrow. You know, and, like, girls just being really awful to me on the playground and stuff. And so I just felt so lonely, so, so lonely. And I had a great family, loving family.

I mean, thank God, you know, I had a brother who was, like, always down to, like, let me hang with him and stuff. but like, and parents who never tried to change me or anything. But even with a very supportive family, I just was so lonely. And I think that this is something that me and my husband talk about a lot. We were both really sad kids, not our whole childhood, but like we had times. And I think people just didn't think that kids could have that depth of feeling at that time, you know? And so there was like no real, like, there was no real like monitoring of like, is this at school? Nobody was like, you seem really.

What grade are you? What grade is nine? Maybe they did know. Yeah. Fourth. Okay. I remember fourth. Yeah, fourth was okay for me. Because most kids at that age are kind of like... Fourth grade was the year. Fourth grade was the year, uh, I was like, I think I need glasses. My bear's just like, oh, come on. You're just trying to like, you know, that was the age where they still didn't quite believe you on something like that. So like, he's just once glasses like we have glasses or whatever it is. You know, like, no, no. Like, I can't see. I just sit in the front of the. room to try to at all see the whiteboard or whatever. And like, I still can't see it. I just remember the only thing about fourth grade was I got glasses and it was a game changer. Yeah, hell yeah. Yeah. That makes sense because you like realize like, oh, like this probably is it right. But I,

I don't know. I, I remember coasting okay, I think, until fifth grade was when I changed schools. There was a lot of drama there. It's just a hard time. And Jackie, you were, you were already. You said by eight. And you're all, what age are you, Jackie, are you? I'm like eight. Third grade. Okay. And I, third grade.

Fourth grade. I don't remember third grade at all. Honestly, even you bringing up the short hair thing, I always had short hair. I always had like shaved to the head short hair, like starting from when I was pretty young. And that's how I liked it. Where did that? Okay.

You just was like, you just didn't like your hair? I didn't like my, I didn't want long hair. I didn't. I hated it. I hated the brushing process. And my mom was like, well, if you're not going to brush your hair. hair, then you're not going to have any hair. And I was like, okay.

That's what I say every morning. I'm like, you want long hair? You got to let me brush your hair. That's exactly. But honestly, that's what ended up happening. My mom couldn't take it because these, because like, CPS was called on her twice because of how I would scream when my hair was brushed. I would just like scream blood for just like an hour.

Like, I wouldn't let her. Oh, my God. It was horrible. So that's why I've got, so I had short hair. but I also think that that fucked with my psyche a lot because, like, of course, you're consistently bullied. And it's just like... And then also, like, around this time

when you're talking about John, I was like, oh, my God, it's also around the time when Henry started pulling away from me because he was going into middle school. Yeah. And so that was, like, the opposite of where I was like, I felt very lonely because, like, I didn't have him anymore.

Yeah. And, like, you're not grown up because you're right. You're not in middle school yet. Yep. So you're just, like, kind of nothing. Yeah. You're just,

like you can watch, you know, Jumanji and get sad, but not quite know why you're sad. It's like, oh, because daddy's stuck in the board game

for my, for generations. If you, and it, like, third through fifth grade is my favorite, sorry, he's not the daddy, but third through fifth grade is my favorite age to teach. I love eight to 10 year olds.

There was, did you guys see the TikTok of the, like, 11 year old girl? I can't remember that it wasn't Steely Dan, but it was like, She got to...

The Dan? It wasn't the Dan. Oh, I've got to look it up. People are screaming at their... Oh, oh, I know who you're talking about. Right. She's like an 11-year-old girl who like, it was like an extremely unlikely fandom. Right.

And she was just... It's an old man. It's a yacht rock guy. Yes, it was like a yacht rock. It wasn't even the band. It was like just one of the guys. And she got to... Was it Michael McDonald's?

Yes. Thank you. Yes. Yes. Just, yes. Thank you. And this like 11-year-old girl gets to go see Michael McDonald's. And the TikTok is so sweet.

She... And I was like crying watching it because I was remembering this age. Yeah, from the from the Doobie Brothers, from the Dewey Brothers. To be 10 and 11. And like, it's such an amazing age because you really, you understand like so much. And you have still have the imagination of a child. And it's like such an amazing age. But so I feel like if you got like an eight, nine or 10 year old who has a little squad or who has an identity and activity that really means something to them, you are rocking.

I love that age. But if you don't. like so much identity formation is happening during that time. And if you don't like have a squad or you don't have something that really like this little girl who loves fucking Michael McDonald, like it was so, so moving to see everybody just be like, we're so, but she's like the youngest person there by like, you know, 40 years. So thrilled. Cannot believe this guy is in her presence.

Yes. Yeah, it's just like loving it. But yeah, it is, it's just such a weird. It's, I think that there's so much going on in the heads of kids. that age. And again, there just wasn't really much realization about that when we were at this age. And so there, and yeah, and so like, for us, it was a lot of consuming things that were meant for older people, like clueless, right? Like the babysitter. And like something to talk about. But also, you know what also came out in 1995? I apologize to interrupt you, but I think this goes

completely hand in hand with what you were just saying. Please. Welcome to the dollhouse. I was going to say, Welcome to the Dollhouse, too! Another movie that I would just watch on TV and be like, this is making me feel so many weird feelings and it's kind of scary and it's kind of exciting. And I had never seen anything like it. I didn't even know if I was really allowed to be watching it. So I didn't really ask my parents about it because it was like a lot of grown-up stuff, but she was a kid.

Welcome to the Doll House fits in perfectly with this and totally captures that same thing of being like a really alienated kid having no idea how to understand the world around you. You know what's hard about talking about the movies that came out this year outside of like maybe just the ones that were geared towards, you know, children for where we were at is like, I think I'm seeing a lot of these movies next year when they hit Blockbuster, right? You're not like seeing these movies in the movie theater. Because I'm, you know, Batman Forever. I totally remember seeing in the movie theater.

I was also the first instance of like weird nerdy fandom. I went with like my nerd friend Ward. And afterwards he let me know that he has. had read the entire script, like, and he got it off of, I guess, the internet or whatever. Oh, my God. And I was like, you read the script? And I thought that was, like, insane that he did that. I was like, are you crazy?

Like, so you just knew everything that was going to happen? He was like, yeah. And I was like, what? Who does that? Why would you do that? Like, now is like, now that's, like, kind of normal, I feel like, to know everything about the movie going in for like super nerds or whatever. But yeah, like, in terms of, uh, what was the other?

the one, I mean, because also like desperado, man, I'm having flashbacks now of like, just saying the word desperado, first of all, Samaheac. I mean, in that movie, sexual awakening for this guy. If you've seen the live show, you know how Holden feels about Selma Hayek. Yeah, I'm having a, you know, I'm having kind of a sexual awakening. This is that era for me, right? And, but also desperado equals, I think those was more the year after, but still, I was starting it up around this time. Seventh, eighth grade is when I was like first starting to smell. cigarette. And I think one of the things, one of the things that like, yeah, cigars, cigarettes, we do like sweet and black and black and milds. We do like black and milds and stuff like that.

Yeah. Like, get some cigareos. Oh yeah. I feel like I was so annoyed. I like hated school. I hated the hierarchy, popularity. I think I just wanted to rebel so bad. Totally. My parents, my parents felt like a total drag. Like they were such, they were so uncool. Like we all feel our parents are at that time. I just wanted to fucking, I just wanted to, like, do something. I was just so bored and, like, annoyed at, like, immediately giving up at, like, I'm not status quo. I'm never going to be the popular kid. I'm never even going to feel, like, understood by a lot of the school, you know what I mean? But, like, so, like, I feel like turning to smoking and stuff.

A, wanted to be more like my older brother, desperately trying to, like, reconnect with him. is talking about he's, so he had by this point fully moved away from me. That would be very hard. Yeah. You know, like you were talking about that had already was well established at this point. When my brother moved out, I was in high school and that was so hard. To have your brother move out when you're in middle school would be very, very hard. All right.

So add this in the equation. Avery, I love you. You're like he's the sweetest brother ever and I know he feels like a dick. I brought this up to him actually when I was home last and he was like, I think I blocked that completely out. Oh, what did you confront him with? No, he was just a high school kid that was a high school kid. He was a teenager in every sense of the word. And so when he got a car and we were going to the same school because middle

and high school were in the same school. I mean, that school went from K through 12. But I started going there at fifth grade. And then my brother gets a car and now he's taken, now he has to take me to and from school. And that was like really uncool for him to do. So I would literally, he would like drop me off like way far away from the school. Like I'd have to like walk from like the bottom parking lot. Like all, you know, even though he was parked. And you know any of the girls in school would have been like, oh, you drive your brother.

I know. That's the thing. I don't. It's cute. I don't want to like rosy thing it now, like assume that that's all better. But I would actually love to hear from like suburban parents about if that, because I, when I. If that's still a thing. If the younger siblings are like a drag in that way or whatever, like, make you, like bring you down.

I think that's something that's shifted a little bit. But again, my experience with kids is limited to teaching in New York City, which I do think is like life in New York City is just different. Kids aren't driving cars. They're taking the trains together. It was so normal for middle and high school kids to have to pick up their little siblings. And like so frequently they just didn't seem to be dicks about it. And again, like, Jackie said, there's a like, there was like some cultural capital the one with it. Like, oh, that's so sweet of you, you know.

it's like, that's such a better way of saying it. Thank you, Carl. I can't even say it. Social capital, I guess. I'm too lowly. But it was like, yeah, like, I mean, obviously middle schoolers and high schools are still very, they're at a very difficult age where they are developmentally incapable of thinking about other people besides themselves.

But I wonder if, like, I think a lot about sibling stuff and age difference in birth order. People always ask me, like, why do you think you and your brother are so close? Because we have a bigger age difference than most siblings who end up being very closer. People think that, you know, like. And I, yeah, I guess I'm just hearing you say that it feels so, like that actually feels like a product of the 90s. I feel like now I wonder if it's still a thing that high schoolers would be so mortified to be, to have a brother, you know? Like, it's just a thing.

I always lament. Well, there's two things going on. And I will add a third thing actually. A, I will always lament that I came up in the time of grunge when it was just so fucking ruthless how bad you had to pretend that everything sucks and I don't. care and, you know, fuck everything and, oh, God forbid you be passionate about. Especially for boys. Theater or, you know. Like, boys were in a glass cage of no emotion.

Yeah. Just watch, like, footage from MTV during this time or, like, watch footage from, like, you know, Woodstock 94 even or stuff. Like, just the way people act and talked, it was just so, you were so lame if you cared about something. or like, we're passionate or, you know, it was just, you had to squash that out at all times. And it just made everything very dull and, like, very moody and bland and upset. And then B, I would say, the other thing was, oh, I forget B, but C, I will say that what I was

reconnecting with my brother on music. And we were actually, like, this was also a cool time, though, because, like, he was really supportive of, like, my super fandom of Green Day. Like, I mean, he was the first person to get Duky on CD. We were starting to, like, you know, talk music and borrow CDs and stuff like that and get really into that. You know what I mean? So, like, there was a connection there for sure. But it was just very, it was just very, very challenging, I think, to live in that environment, you know, where, where, especially with boys, yeah, where it was just so, everything was lame and everything was, you know,

just dumb and lame and shitty. I'm sure teenagers still are embarrassed to have brothers and still embarrassed to get dropped off by their mom, but there did seem to be something specifically about the 90s that was just like, if you don't performatively hate everything around you, then you're lame, and so you have to hate it, you know?

And that was the other thing, by the way, though, I will say, like with my brothers, so we're connecting on certain things, but it's also like, I don't know, don't you, if you're younger brothers in middle school and you're in high, I get it if you're both in high school or you're both in middle school. I think it's differing as A, your ages are closer anyways. We were four years apart. That's just enough time around that time to feel like a decade. Right. Well, especially because you don't share freshman and senior year. Exactly. I feel like the three year difference.

Jackie and I talk about this a lot. Yeah. That's the glue. Yeah. Because we were in high school at the same time as our brothers and we were in, I would never middle school, but like we were in college at the same time and like we were able to see each other as peers. That was a big transition though to go from being middle siblings to peer, you know. For my brother's sake, I'm sure he would have rather my middle school be somewhere else in his high school. You know what he mean? Like I think I'm sure that does, you know, not to defend him being kind of a but he was as much of a dig as any teenager in high school is. Like, I mean, that is just the time where I I think I was the most a dick during like my high school years, right? Like, especially when I had a car, especially when I had some semblance of independence,

you know? I mean, I just didn't want to be anywhere near my parents. I just belitt I feel like all my parents say like you were not that bad, but I, in my head, all I did was belittle them. Well, you did it all on the inside. You probably just weren't doing it on the outside. But I would also outside do. I remember, I've told this story before, but I remember like sitting with my parents at like a dinner party and my dad.

making another one of his corny jokes and me just going ha ha ha ha. It's just like staring at it. Give me a death stare. Like that's like that shit. Such a piece of shit head. And yet. Such a shit head. And they rolled with it and they just rolled with it too.

And I'm just like, I can't believe you guys didn't fucking just murder me like at times. You know what I mean? And yet I'm in such denial. I think that's probably why it was just hammered. I'm in hardcore denial about the fact that our children will ever be at this age and will treat us like that because I'm just like, well, no, but it'll be different because I'm really cool. No, no, it won't be different. It won't be different. It might be different. It might be a little different though, because again, it depends on what's, I feel like the culture, it just depends on a lot

about the culture of what's going on. You know what I mean? Like, which speaking of which, like, we can go back to movies and stuff, but should we get into some of the bigger, like, news hits that happened this year? I mean, Amazon sold its first book. Oh, my love. That's crazy. That's the weird. I was not expecting that fact. Yeah. That's crazy.

There's a lot of big cultural transitions. When DVDs were invented? DVDs were invented. Toy Story, like the first real Pixar movie. The first CG being like a thing. Did you guys go see Toy Story in the movie theater? Because I remember I went to go see it. Oh, yes.

I remember I saw in the movie theater. And I do believe I also like the second it was available for purchase. And those big, like God, I miss those. big, the big, uh, Disney, puffy VHS case is that like,

the, the sound of opening and closing it, like it just felt so good. Yes. Uh, yeah, I loved that. And I remember I definitely went and got that immediately.

I was so blown away that this had happened, that a computer. And this is also the time of like, man, I'm like, I'm, I'm really getting into the concept of what computers can do. Because I mean,

we've got AIM at this point, right? It's the first computer animated film. As I didn't realize. I remember being, never seeing anything like it. you know, but I wasn't sure if I was officially the first, but it's, that seems like such a beginning, you know, like I, we, we recently watched it with the kids and I was like, this is, I was 10 when this movie came out, like, and it's still, you know, Toy Story is still like a very relevant

franchise for kids now, you know, but so it's, it's, it was this, it began something and the idea that was, had never been an animated movie like Toy Story before. And we're also just starting, to get the internet. I mean, I'm literally, you know, I've told the story a lot, but we, I would start, I would click on a link to start the, not even a doubt, it was just popping up on the screen to get an image of Green Day to pop up on the screen. And then I would like, turn the monitor off on the computer. This was in the computer lab at high school. Pray that no one used that computer for the rest of the day. And then hopefully it would be there waiting for me to print out on the color printer like hours later. That, that was like where we were at. And

And AIM, by the way, it pops in 97. So we're not quite that, like, the internet internet, but we're like just on the customer. I believe AOL is maybe still a thing that people are starting to get into. And, you know, so we're like kind of just getting, man, what a beautiful time before, oh, all of that shit. Man, this is around the time. Remember in the old school computers with ski free? Is that what it was called? I remember the ski game. I played so much ski free.

It was insane. Yeah, I remember playing a lot of missed. I remember playing a lot of that. And just anything I could get my hands on with that stuff for sure. Also, shout us to the movie Mortal Kombat. That's just for me. But like, talk about like a seminal summer experience. Like, when that came on on the loudspeakers in the movie theater,

every child my age felt like a god. We were like freaking out. And I remember my brother, like, hyping that up for me too. That was the cool thing of my brother. Like, we had a divide for sure in terms of, like, age difference, high school, middle school. But I do remember him being, like, very cool and supportive of, like, the shit I was getting really passionate about and stuff like that. I just remember there was, like, a lot of... And also just Mortal Comet in general, like, that was, like, arcade culture and stuff was really big at that time.

And, like, secrets and, like, oh, there's this fatality and, like, a lot of word of mouth before the internet. It was very exciting. There was a lot of like rumors and gossip and secrets around these cultural things happening, like, like Mortal Kombat and the arcade and stuff like that. The world felt a little more mysterious is what I'm trying to say at this time. Yeah, well, it was more mysterious because it was a lot harder to find shit out back then. And also like, I wonder why I'm such a horny little rabbit. And I look at all of the like romance movies that came out in 95 and how many of them

I would watch over and over. Like a walk in the clouds, a Keanu Williams movie, and there's just straight up shudpin in these movies, man. They didn't play back in the mid-90s. And I watched a walk in the clouds so many times between that sense and sensibility while you were sleeping, very creepy,

bridges of Madison County. Something to talk about. Something to talk about. Loved that movie. By the way. I'm now looking at movies that came out in 94 because honestly we were all watching these movies rented from Blockbuster in 95 interview with the vampire came out in 94. Legend of the Fall came out in 94. Shawshank Redemption, The Mask came out in 194.

You guys, how are we getting this far talking about movies and we haven't mentioned showgirls? Oh my gosh. Not that I saw it, you know, not that I saw it. But it was a weird cultural. moment because like everyone was both shitting on it and horny for it like weirdly at the same time. And it was weird and jarring for us because I don't know about you guys, but I was definitely

watching Saved by the Bell. So this was the first time like someone from my childhood era of TV watching and movie watching was becoming like, it was like I was growing up watching her watching Shannon. What was the name? Elizabeth Berkeley. Berkeley, yeah. Watching her like make that leap was like. like, whoa, I'm not a kid anymore.

Yeah. And that was for sure, like, totally. And there was a lot of stuff that was coming out that I would later, like, catch that it was, I remember I had a friend who saw Pulp Fiction in the movie theater when it came out. And I was just like, how? Like, he had the cool parents. You know what I mean? And I was like, what?

You saw that? And even I knew I wasn't ready for that movie yet. You know what I mean? In terms of kids movies that came out, did you guys watch a kid in King Arthur's Court? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to lick on him. Yeah, I remember having a crush on him. Yeah, did you have a crush on him?

Oh, yeah, I had a crush on him. For sure. And what was the pitch? What was the pitcher movie that he did as well? Yeah, there's all. Oh, my God, Junior. Oh, that was 1994. Let me go back to 1995.

I was like, Junior, I saw how the movie did with my dad. Two Wong Fu, thanks for everything. Julie Newmar was this year. And that was another movie that I watched all the time. Really? Oh, yeah. Love that movie. Oh, and Powder did come out in 95.

Powder 10th came out in 95, by the way. Yeah, I think I may have seen it. I might not have seen it in 95 as I've weirdly, specifically remember renting it and watching it at home because it just put me in such a fucking weird mood. Talk about weird mood. Another kids movie, Casper came out in 1995. Talk about wanting to lick on someone.

Oh my goodness. Definitely. Good. But also for me, I also wanted to lick on Bill Pullman, but that's, you know, that's a news. It's a prolific year. It's not a prolific year for kids' movies, but it's a pretty good one.

Shoutouts to what we have already said, Toy Story. Babe was really strong that year. Jumanji I saw in the movie theater with my dad. Big shoutouts to Jumanji. I remember loving that in the movie theater. Jumongi has to hold up, right? I haven't watched it in a really long time,

but I'd like to rewatch it, but I feel like I'm going to be sad. And a goofy movie too. Yes. Surprisingly, like, really good. Even for me, it was like, oh, I'm kind of too old for this, but this is a really good kids movie. Like, this is actually genuinely great for sure. It was a really big year for Alicia Silverstone.

She just keeps... It was like Alicia Silverstone wasn't clueless. And then I think she wanted to, like, not have that define her. So in addition to the babysitter, the extremely sexy, like dark, you know, sex drama. She was also in a movie called True Crime, which I have never heard of until now. But it's weird that she had her moment and then just kind of. of like never continued to have a moment. And you have to, you have, you have, you've got to mention to, they were probably more like

94, but they were still airing at this time, I'm sure. Those fucking Aerosmith music videos, man, that was like the caught, like, all of that living on the edge. Yeah, living on the edge is grokky. All of that was, it was like that, this is like the, such a peak era of MTV, especially for me. Like, that was just so. Were we in TRL?

territory at this time? Let me see. It was total request live. And kids will never have this. Like every single day, we would all collectively wake up in the summer, turn on MTV, and it would literally be on all fucking day. You had just one channel. It was like what adults do with CNN now, sadly. It was like we had one channel. We rarely jumped off of it. Maybe Comedy Central, for sure. Every now and again, check in with VH1. Oh, are they still playing Kiss from a Rose? I would alternate between... Well, you guys... Nickelodeon.

Yeah, at this time, also, we haven't even talked about Nickelode in 1995, but that was the golden years, you know? Oh, yes. We're talking, are you afraid of the dark? We're talking to Rugrats.

We're talking all that. But TRL didn't start until 98. So in 1995, it was still a little bit of like, we're just in music video land, you know? It was just music videos, but also like the summer, you know, we just did a parody of it for our sub-a-thon.

The summer, like, out, just people grind in on each other. Drinking all day. Drinking. Just being maniacs. Like there was so much just endless footage of that. Well, TRL, you know, for me, TRL like ruined MTV. Really?

Because this was the time when MTV just showed music videos, a wide variety of them. And then just put weird ass programming out. I mean, is liquid television? I think I saw the max. Yeah, what was like Sipple and Ollie? You remember that. It was just. Really weird stuff on.

A lot of weird shit. And that was so fun. It was so much more exciting and experimental when it came to. But yeah, there was like, yeah, that was a time where you were just like, I don't know what I'm going to see when I go to MTV. And especially at our age, it was like so mysterious and so, you know, or not, you know, it was like, it felt like something teenagers were doing. And so it felt very subversive to be a nine-year-old watching MTV. But what are you guys while you're watching? what, maybe goosebumps.

Definitely watching goosebumps. But also, this was like, just to go back to movies real quick, but of just thinking about Pocahontas. And that was, I know that, obviously, doesn't hold up. And I know that there are many, many issues with it. But that was the first time that I watched a movie that I was like, this music slaps. And I remember getting the, I got the tape that had the Pocahontas.

And the first time you were like, wow, Native Americans are people. No, that's not. Amazing. I'm just saying we all know that you both love the music from Pocahontas and you frequently break into colors of the wind when we're on tour

and it always surprises me. I'm always like, why do you both know the lyrics to this song? I loved the music from Pocahontas. I literally only know the blue corn moon lyrics because it's funny to me. Second of all, this was actually the time when I'm like fully moved past Disney. Right.

Animation. I'm too cool for that stuff. So why do you? Why do you know the lyrics? I mean, it was just, again, I think it was just always, it was just everywhere. I don't even think I've actually sat and watched Pocahontas, to be honest with you. I just think the blue cord mood thing is just, I don't know why. I'll tell you what I was watching.

Blue corn moon. It's just like, I don't know, very seriously singing about a blue corn moon. I'll tell you what I was watching in 1995 though, Pinky and the Brain. It was a, it was a golden age for cartoons, animinia. Animaniacs. Animaniacs. Yeah, all that's. And we just did our Freakazoid episode,

which was essentially the next step after Animaniacs. And we got the guy who does the voice of Freakazoid who wrote on Animaniacs and Freakazoid to talk about his experience with all of that stuff. And it was really fun. Oh, my God. Just listen to what we were watching in 1995. Renan Stimpy, Legends of the Hidden Temple, Guts.

Pete and Pete, are you afraid of the dark? The Secret World of All right? smack, Rocko's Modern Life and A Real Monsters. Yes. Golden Age of Television. I would watch all those shows right now. So I came in at the beginning of that. So I came in at Doug Rugrats.

Rockos was kind of like happening as I was kind of going out. I was like enjoying Rockos for a little bit. Obviously, Ritten and Stimpy. I was like that was the era just past that era for me. Again, I'm like, God, it's so depressing. becoming this awkward as fuck young adult and it just sucks. And you're just like, oh, all fun has left the building. Now we have to be like upset all the time and like.

And you could even enjoy all that, which premiered in 1995. All that was just after my time. Shout out to Danny Tamborelli as well with that. Amanda Binds, Keenan Thompson. I mean, really a lot of careers launched during that. Lori Beth. So I want to go, I want to, I want to hit some big news stories. obviously the elephant in the room, but it is the big,

I mean, it is the story of the year by far would be O.J. Simpson's trial. If they don't fit, you must have quit. Is that what it was? Well, that was the weird thing, right? I think we can all agree because, like, whatever you want to feel, like, we're not going to get into, like, the, how culturally it impacted things. Because we were too young. That's not our show.

So, so what I will say, though, is, I'll tell my story. I remember taking a quiz or a test in my, when one of those, it was like, I was in one of those trailer classrooms, you know, how they always had those, like, that section of the school where they're all, like, in air-conditioned trailers and so. Yeah. Yeah, the portable. So I was taking, like, a test in a portable, um, in a porta potty. I think it was like history. And that was why it was so hype because, like, the history teacher literally left us in the room alone to take the test, while everyone was watching the verdict happen in the, like, high school kid history class across the way. They, like, wheeled out the TV.

and everything to watch the verdict. You heard a huge scream from the other room. And then he runs it and he's like, no hell, day. We're all just like, what the fuck is happening? And then I just remember, like, the vibes were really weird in my house that day. But it was like I was just about to be understanding these things in a more like, but I'm still, you know, I'm at a crossroads.

I'm Britney Spears at this point, crossroads, right? I'm just not quite there. So the whole thing is just confusing to me. I have no real understanding. And it must have been even weirder or more confusing for you guys, like, just completely. I just knew it was always on. It was always on. Yes.

Similarly, for us, they, I mean, this is weird or whole. At least for you guys, it's good that they let the history class watch it in high school. Because, yeah, this is like this cultural thing that everybody's watching or whatever. Hopefully it involves some, like, discussion of some of the dynamics going on around that trial, which I doubt in the night. in 1985 because we were not having that. Yeah. We were not having like a helpful conversation about like racism in 1995.

No, just everybody was, everyone was upset. And like, yeah, we didn't. Yeah, that was that was one of my takeaway. It was everyone's upset about this. For different reasons. Like leading up to this trial, of course. But for us, we were a bunch of fourth graders in the whitest county in America in Dubuque, Iowa. And they wheeled the TV in and they put all the fourth graders in one classroom.

And they made us watch the verdict. Did they explain? Did they explain the trial? No. Did they explain anything? Weird. Did they connect it to anything historical, educational? No.

I think the teachers just wanted to watch it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They needed to watch it. Like, it was this weird thing that like it was a must watch moment. When you think about it, it's all you have phones that you'd be able to find out. Right.

So I guess it was one of those things where, yeah, in retrospect, I'm like, I guess this makes sense because it was like a foundational moment but again there was no I mean the nation was not like reckoning with why people were upset so of course the elementary school teachers

in Dubuque Iowa were also not there was just no context and I remember everyone was upset and I had no idea why and like truly what same I just remember being so confused by the whole thing I had no idea what I just remember and it just if it fits

you must have quit. You just knew all the tag lines. And I learned everything from Saturday Night Live, you know, so I think I under, you know, there was like, I, I had a sense of that, like, this was something that everybody was like, everybody was talking about. The trial was on all day, every day. Everybody was kind of parodying it. Yeah.

But yeah, that's my memory of the, of the OJ verdict. Jackie, did you guys watch it? And you were in New York City at the time, huh? Yeah. Yeah, we didn't watch it in school. We didn't, I just remember, I just remember it literally. always being on at all times, and we weren't allowed to shut it off. So in the one TV, it was just, so I, like, I feel like itched its way into my brain,

but I'll never know, but, like, I had no idea what happened. Like, that was in my time period when I really loved my guinea pig, you know? Yeah, right. It was just too young to understand. But it was a weird time, like, there was so much shit around trials, because, like, not long before this was the Menendez father. Yeah, this was the emergence of court. TV, right?

Yeah, court TV and like everyone really getting hype on like, turning it into entertainment. This is like, yeah, this is the boys territory. But I think that the, that the OJ trial and the Menendez brothers, right? Like you said, Holden, like it was like there was this realization like, oh, this is a large cash cow. We can turn. All we have to do is just turn on cameras in here and to present this, market it like

its entertainment. And then court TV just. totally took off. And I feel like OJ kind of marks the beginning of this era of like true crime as entertainment, right? Now how about this news story? Selena.

Where did that affect you guys? Oh, man. It didn't, because I didn't know about Selena until the movie Selena came out. And then I got obsessed with Selena. Because that's the thing, like I didn't even realize that was now. I thought it was even like in that late 80s

or something when that happened. I didn't even realize it was like, wow, in 95. I was a little more affected by, so we're in a post-Cobain suicide reality. And I remember that really rocked the foundation of like being, I mean, that was the most important event for middle school us, for sure. That was just so, I mean, Nirvana literally redefined cool music at that time.

So we all got on board with Grunge and Nirvana. And then when he did that, it just sent a, I remember just sent such a shock wave. through, you know, young teens. That's a fascinating cultural moment too because Courtney Love did this big, like there was a very careful and purposeful effort to cover that in a way that didn't cause more suicide. And she was so intentional about that.

And there was like such. It was scary. I mean, it became kind of like it could be seen as cool. And I think that even at the time, social scientists understood that. And like, I think, yeah, Courtney Love, who then, of course, became, you know, immediately demonized about everything around that was like, we have to, there was like a vigil for him in which they explicitly said, like, do not, do not copy this. Like this, like, and so that was this, I think that obviously also talk about conversations that the country wasn't having. Mental health was not a conversation that this country was having. So I think that everybody was like, oh, fuck, this is, this could really, really, really be bad for teenagers.

And but also, like, had no idea how to have that conversation. And I think that in the aftermath of Kirk Cobain, a lot of people really tried to, a lot of people close to him, like, really tried to, like, be like, let's use this as an opportunity to talk about this. And that was a huge change from never talking about anything like that, which was what it was like before, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty wild, all that shit. And so we're in the aftermath of that. And then I remember also the other big death of 95 was, kind of came in an interesting time for me,

was Jerry Garcia, dies of a heart attack at age 53. And that was like right when my brother was getting into jam bands. I'm about to get really, I'm about to get really into jam bands. Oh, yeah, he killed himself a different way. He completely, he would not stop touring. He wouldn't take care of himself. He was just a heavy, heavy drug user. He killed himself the other way, just on the road at all times, just not, not being careful

with his health. And so, yeah, I remember that was like this huge deal to me because it was like, oh, this thing I was just getting into, I'll never be able to experience, like, the best version of it, the way it was intended because this guy is no longer with us. I just remember death was very defining. Like, it was very much for, at least the middle school. era of age, like death was like all of a sudden all around us, you know, in a way that like it really wasn't before between Garcia, Cobain, and I guess Selena, I will say for a TV

junkie, by the way, if it's, it seems to that it's ER, Seinfeld, and Friends happening. We were eating pretty fucking good. Oh, yeah. Man, what a golden age. I was also way too young to be watching ER, but I want, like, we always watched ER. watching her to mom all the time. Like I was obsessed with ER. And I mean, in a large way, Seinfeld,

I had, I had didn't know half of the shit they were talking about. Same. You know? But I've watched it every fucking week with my dad. And then, and friends, obviously just, you know, Thursday nights. I mean, at this point, I have a full television schedule that I could recite to you. I could tell you every night what comes on, what, where I'll be, what I'm watching from like 6 p.m. to, not even from 4.

not even from 4 p.m. to 11 p.m. I could tell you exactly what I was going to be watching that night. Like, we were, I was so keyed in to all of that. Another big one speaking of getting into late night, because I think I was also just starting to get into late night TV and getting really obsessed with Letterman. If not now, then just after this. Drew Barrymore, flashing Letterman was such a big news story for that year. I don't remember this at all. You don't. Oh, it was huge deal. It was just so crazy. Because I also loved Letterman. Even at that time, I was like a little old guy who loved Letterman. Oh, man, we were always a Leno household.

I think we'll say this every time. Wow, I was always Letterman. Such a shock to me because you're so funny. I was on the Letterman. Well, we weren't choosing. Like, it wasn't all that decided. That was a Linda choice or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, but we were, I remember that was, yeah. What did she do? Why did she just flashed him? She's just being a crazy guest, and she just jumped up and flashed him. It just became this, like, weird, giant moment in that year. This is the year of Mad Love, right? Wasn't it Mad Love the movie that Hot? Yes, the hot movie with Drew Barrymore and Chris O'Donnell.

And it's... Oh, right, because she's also one of the first, like, child stars that crossed over in this way. Manic Fixie Dream Girl. This was the year of that, like, between Elizabeth Berkeley and her. It was like a lot. of like childhood stuff being shattered and kids you know people growing up and being like I'm an adult look at my tits you know what I mean and it was like a very jarring thing like because I'm I'm still I'm the catcher in the right kind of situation I'm trying to hold on to my childhood desperately

and it's just being ripped from me at all ends and I'm weird and horny too I remember people were so weird about Drew Barrymore I think there really was like uh I mean our I think our country still has like a really unsure relationship with how to deal with like children growing up in the public eye. I feel like, you know, Millie Bobby Brown is like a good example of this where people are like, uh, be a kid forever. I'm weirded out by you being an adult. But Drew Barrymore, I remember in the 90s, people just had all sorts of psychotic behavior around her. And I guess it was just because people were like, E.T. E.T. Now she's sexy. You know, like I definitely remember people really fixating. Oh, yeah. Drew Barrymore. And we, and then we would get

that later with Hermione, you know, and stuff like, it's always this great. And now it's 11. And now it's 11. Yeah, yeah. But even they say that about Millie Bobby Brown because she's engaged now and you have to think it's like she lived a very, she is only 19 years old. But she has lived a very different life from the age of like 12 than any of us lived. I imagine she probably, I'm still saying, I mean, it's very young.

Don't get me wrong. But like, I imagine she's a different 19 year old than I. I was at night. Totally. Totally. Yes. Right. Did y'all fuck with pogs?

I fucked hard with pogs. We were the right age for pods. I think 1987 can be best defined by the O.J. Simpson slammer. I think if you wanted to just bottle 1995 with one item that define the whole thing. Is it really an OJ Simpson slammer? There were all sorts of slammers. I mean, there was, pogs were so weird because you could put anything on a pog.

There wasn't like a, I don't even know if there was like a one distributor of Pogs. And it was like weirdly teaching gambling. Remember it was like kind of edgy because you like gamble. Oh my God. He's behind bars in the slammer. Oh, God. Good Lord. What a, what a bloodthirsty country we are.

Maybe I don't need to be proud of this. I was always proud that I never fell for these fads growing up like these big like trindy that like yo-yos were in one year. I was like, fuck off guys. I remember the, I told the story. I told the story on the show whereby our middle school principal came on the intercom and made everybody get out a pen and a paper and said write down these letters as I say them. N-O-Y-O-Y-O-Y-O. And then he said, no-yo-yo.

Wow. And that was how he rolled out the no-yo-yo policy. Oh, no-yo-yo. What a fun dude. Yeah, also yeah, thanks for shitting all over my smiles, bro. No, yo-yo. It was a real, I mean, we still have that there was a year where it was silly bands and there was a year was fidget spinners and now it's poppets. Every kid, we still have the little kid trends, but there was something about the 90s.

Again, as we've talked about with our other 90s, rewinds, there was no, there were micropultures, but so much of it was monoculture that it was just like everybody's eating in McDonald's, getting the happy meals. the pogs are in the happy meals, you know, the, it was, the beady babies are in the happy meals. It was just like, something had a way of, like, saturating every aspect of culture. Everything. We were all watching the same TV shows. We were all watching the same movies.

We were all watching the same music videos. And it was really interesting with that, you know, I mean. And again, too big, another, too, this is like such a crazy year for movies. And maybe that's just because I had nothing better to do, but go see movies. you had Brave Heart kicking off the summer, which was, I don't know about you guys, that was fucking everywhere when that happened. Yes, it was everywhere.

And then I also saw Waterworld in the movie theater, which was this weird, like, the story of how something can bomb. And I think those are the first time I saw, like a bomb in the movie theater. We rewatched it not that long ago, man. Oh, how was it? It is bad.

It's weird. It's weird. It's so long. It's so long. to put you in a weird bad mood. A lot of stuff came out around this time. They just put you in a fucking, just kind of an icky mood.

Because grunge, man. Because the aesthetic was grimy and shitty seven, 12 monkeys, Tank Girl, you know, I mean, to a better effect, but usual suspects was incredible.

But still, it was just the era of like just... Strange asht days. Just not vibrant and fun, you know? Like just none of it. This is the year of Outbreak and Congo. And I remember I used to call them the monkey movies.

Monkey Madness. To watch either Outbreak or Congo. And I love to watch them both. Oh my God. And another like Nottie Nottie. It's Forbidden. Species came out. Oh, species what I'm talking about.

I made horny horns. For a horny. Boy, yeah, this is my horn up. But like confused horny. I'm like unsure about it. I don't know. I'm just receiving different signals, but I don't really know, you know, like.

Oh, yeah. Well, I don't even know what I lie. Like, I'm still figuring out what I like. You know what I mean? It's just like a weird. I mean, come on. Seventh grade has got to be the weirdest, one of the weirdest times of your life.

Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. 13 is just so weird. You're just in between these two vibes. You're still a kid and you're just super not. And it's just a weird time to be alive. When I was teaching seventh. grade, at that time, there had just been data that came out in New York City that seventh graders

was the age that was like experienced the most like discipline, you know, the most suspensions, the most expulsions and all that. And I was like teaching a class that they were acting crazy. And they, I like told them, I was like, you guys know the seventh graders are the ones who like get in the most trouble in the city. And this girl just like in her like slouch pose from the stage just goes, it's because of our hormones, miss. And I really feel like she really got it. She was right. I mean, you're not wrong.

I was like, yeah, you're teaming with hormones and you don't know how to communicate properly because you don't understand them. That's it in a nutshell. Yeah. Oh, man, so many weird stuff, though. This is one of the first big, like, pre-before canceling was the thing. Someone getting canceled.

But Hugh Grant goes on the Tonight Show to talk about his industry. with the sex worker that he was caught with. I remember that was a crazy thing. Was the controversy just that he was with the sex worker? Well, he was with Elizabeth Hurley. He was his girlfriend or fiance or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

He was fully in a relationship, very public, a power couple, you know, him and Elizabeth Hurley. But there was some racial stuff going on. I believe it was a person of color. And also, was it a trans person too? I forget exactly. but it was at least a person, I believe it was a person of color, and he just became like a giant laughing stock. I remember that, and he had to like go on.

And this was like right when he was at the peak of his career. I mean, he was literally like, could do, you know, he was just the huge just name. And especially romantic comedy, especially female gays, he was like the number one for like what the ladies wanted. You know, he was the symbol of that. And then he all of a sudden just all came crumbling down around him. Oh man, road rule season one.

Yeah, this is such peak MTV. There was such good MTV. Such weird. It's so weird to think about, yeah, like the moral panic around Hugh Grant. Like, right, well, there was, I feel like it was a time of a lot of moral panics because it was like, there was a lot of road rage. It was like, are video games making people violent? Is MTV making teenagers too horny? you know, Hugh Grant needs to, like, do this, like, really big apology tour for, like, seeing a sex worker.

There was, it was, I think, generally, the monoculture was so much more conservative, not like Republican conservative, but just, like, sexually, morally conservative. Well, yeah, we just talked about this with Paul Rubens and Schneid O'Connor. That was, like, 91, 92, I believe. So it was every year we had these big, like, moral outrage. rage celebrity moments that happen, you know, that maybe even culminated with OJ. And then, and then I think probably just a few years later culminated with good old Monica Lewinsky, right? Yeah, and that as well.

Because I was about to ask, this is Bill Clinton's years. Yeah, Clinton is president. And so I think there's like a big movement of like, you know, the moral majority, like Christian right were really ascendant in the 90s. And especially, you know, we've got Hallie, not Hallie Barry, Drew Barrymore flashing Letterman Like, things are getting kind of loose and wild a little bit. Just a lot of panic around sexuality. Yes, a ton of it.

And, hey, I had it too. And I had it too at that current time. A lot of panic around sexuality. Holden was panicking about sexuality because he was a seventh grade boy. The nation was panicking about sexuality because Drew Barrymore's show in her tits and Hugh Grant's having sex with somebody who's not his wife. But a really good year for Splashy News Stories, a really good year for music. Pretty solid. Not really kids' movies and kids stuff, but other than that, a really solid year for movies. I think that 95 was just, I mean, I can't say, again, set it up top, I'll say it again.

You either love this and this is something you wish we were was a better time or you are very glad we don't live in that version of the Wild West. And I'm not talking about the Wild Wild West. That doesn't come until much later. But thank you guys for going down Memory Lane, which. with us today. This has been so much fun talking about my trauma. It looks good to live with you. Remember that? Better than Ezra? Whoa. It was good. It was not good. It was not good. It was not good. Thank you guys so much. My name is Jackie Zabrowski. You can follow me on Instagram at Jack That Worm. And you can come hang out with us in person if you wish because we are going back on.

tour the release the butthole cut tour could be coming to you go to lastpodcastnetwork.com for tickets today. Oh yeah dude. Also Patreon.com forward slash page seven podcast weekly bonus episodes for just $5 a month for $10 a month. You can join us on our on our Thursday watch along every Thursday at around APMET. Also send us those emails page seven podcast. at gmail.com. Celebrity conspiracies especially are very helpful for me to receive. And Twitch.tv.tv.4. slash hold to natures ho Monday through Friday, especially Friday when I stream with Jackie at 6pm. ET. Check us out on there. Twitch.tv.4.S. Hold to natures ho. MJ. My name is MJ and I'm MJ KL Kat on Instagram.

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