Page 7 - REEEEEEWIIIIIND 1997

Episode Date: August 26, 2021

Grab your Tamagotchi and get ready to REEEEEEWIIIIIND you Tamobitchies, we're divin' into the late great year of 1997!Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7PodcastKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0 Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I drink a whiskey drink, I drink a logger drink, a drink a drink a something drink, I think a tiny drink, I think a talk for the thing for the good time. See, I'm thinking more of dreams laugh. For everybody. Yeah. I love these medleys. Return of the Mac, do-do-do-do-do-do-d-d-Rit-Rat. 1997 y'all I'm a police

I've given all I can it's not enough Oh yeah It just shows you how many The lyrics I remember from songs that came out Like a candle in the wind Oh man which is the number one song When you get there

See you get there Yeah baby That is I've brought that up on page seven before. That really resonates with me for some reason. I've got a donkey. I've got a horse. I am ready to get a divorce. That's right. We're going to the court tonight

to end our marriage. See, this would make sense because this is going to be while you are on your paternity leave. So it would make sense if this is the time when Lexi wanted to leave you most, but she can't. This is true. Because she's tethered to you because you have a child. Tethered to her.

But that is that what we're here to talk about. We're going to talk about, I'm a bitch, I'm a lover, I'm a child, and I'm a mother. Oh, that's what Lexi can sing to the baby. That's right. She's not a bitch, she's just the mother part. It's a bit of sweet symphony. Wow, just so much to choose from. 1997 is a huge year in pop culture history.

We would be remiss if we didn't hit it soon off and us discovering that we really, really enjoy doing page 7. rewinds. This is not going to be the only episode on 1997 because there's just so much in this year. Princess Die, anybody? There's a lot. A lot changes in this year. Princess died, right?

And then that was the year I infamously, with the Estenelle where I was readying myself for an individual performance. And it got interrupted by the Princess Die. And I literally didn't know who Princess Die was or why anyone cared. because that's just where I was in my life. But yeah, yeah.

But now I know. Now I understand why it matters and I love the crown. It's because you watch the crown. I didn't understand why it meant until I watched the crown either. I was like, oh, now I understand why everyone was crying so much.

Obviously it's sad when anybody dies. It's because this woman was completely fucked over by life and the royal family. Yeah. Just completely screwed over by the people of England in general. But why talk about Princess Die when you can talk about my open lesbian fantasies

about the band EnVogue. Because this is the year that the Don't Let Go music video came out and I lost my mind. Have you guys seen the EnVogue Don't Let Go music video in a minute because it's sexy as shit. Super hot. No, I'm bringing it up right now.

Just in general to, I just want to say like... Dark lips. Music really diversified a lot, I feel like, around this time in a very fun way. where you have, in terms of topping the charts, you've got like electronic music, like Chemical Brothers,

mixed in with like cheesy boy band Mbop and all that kind of stuff, mixed with Radiohead, really coming out of the gate with OK computer. Like, everything is getting a little electronic. Everything's just getting a little more diversified and interesting when it comes to popular music. I'm actually like really into this time when it came to music.

Also, and we'll get into the movies later, but the big like summer. anthem with like, you know, my heart will go on. And I believe, is this the year Lion King came out? Lion King was a little bit before, but the pop, the pop music impact, like the soundtrack had a holdover. And this is what happened with 1998, our 1998 episode, is that all of these songs that I associated with the year 1997 were on all these charts for 1998. Also, the movie Titanic came out in the year 1997, but had a continued influence on the year 1998, because it was still like the number one movie and the, my heart will go on was like the number one soundtrack and all

of that. And it is really crazy to think that Elton John topped the charts in 1987, which at that point, an older singer that had like his big heyday and then coming back around and out, for me, I've always been obsessed with Elton John. I know that he's always had great songs coming out and great things happening. Of course, there was the Lion King, but then this year there's something about the way you look tonight as well as Candle and the wind that you were talking about earlier, Holden. And it is surprising to me that you look at the top artist, you know, it's Jewel, it's Puff Nattie, it's Tony Braxton, you know, it's, ugh, R. Kelly, Leanne Rhyme, Spice Girls, all that makes sense. But I didn't know that Elton John was at the top, and it's because Candle in the Wind was a redux for Princess Die,

which I didn't know at the time, because I, even though I knew nothing about Princess Die, I remember this was the year that I moved from Florida to New York, or from New York to Florida. And so I didn't have any friends So I watched all of the funeral proceedings Of Princess Die I listened to candle in the wind Over and over again I didn't have any friends

So I watched a funeral all day I loved it I got the Princess Die Beanie Baby, I had to have it Very fifth grade energy right there Oh yes This is such a weird thing about 1997 too It's the year of the death anthem

Because we also had I'll be missing you By Shon Combs Because of the death of Notorious B.AG Lots of Death year too, die, beat biggie, and in December, the saddest one for me, Chris Farley. That was 1997? Yes, it was 1997.

That was horrible. Damn. Because again, talk about, like, with Henry and I, one of our biggest idols, and Henry was a little bit older than me, so I went through the weird fascination with Princess die and then funerals, and then fucking Chris Farley dies, and we were into us the worst time of your life when you move, like, far, and, like, far, and, like, I was in fifth grade and he was in eighth grade. Doesn't that make you just want to die already?

No, I mean, I would not want to move in either of those grades. No, it's the worst. Especially it's like right, and my mom's like, well, I was right before high school. It was good for him because he didn't make any fucking friends before he went to high school. No, we both just had weird loner years. That's why we became friends. But Chris Farley dying was one of the, I like, Henry went into like true, I think that was like the beginning of like a true depression for him of like that is what he won't be and what he always, and that it was all taken away from him.

And how upsetting all, can you imagine dealing with a fifth grader and an eighth grader being brutally upset for a year and a half? With your hero dies? Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty crazy. Because I remember, and this shows that the extent to which I was just totally a child. at the time that when Princess Dye died, the scariest thing about it to me

was that I, like, knew her as a mom, you know? And so because it was like, oh, she has these two cute kids who are, like, approximately me and my brother's age. So the idea of her dying was scariest to me because it was like, moms can't die, you know what I mean? And so, like, that really impacted me. Like, I, again, not giving a fuck about the British monarchy yet, because I didn't have Olivia Coleman in my life.

Just my, no one in my family, like nobody ever talked about the royal family. It's just so weird when you're a kid and all of a sudden everybody cares about something like the OJ trial or whatever. Right. And you're just like, why? Like no one's ever talked about OJ Simpson

outside of police school outside of naked gun. Yeah, we should do that year soon too, the year of the OJ chase because that was another thing. I was at home. We were watching our Friday night 2020 as we did as a family. And then the OJ Chase started well. We were all already sitting in front of the TV. And we were all like,

what? But yeah, like, Diana was another thing. I was like, it seems like everyone's really upset about this. And to me, the only upsetting thing is that anybody who's a mom could ever die. You know, that was like how, but then Chris Farley, it was like, oh, this is like the person who has brought so much joy to me since as long as I can remember. And that hit very, very differently. It felt, I remember thinking, and we talked about this little with Phil Hartman, I just remember thinking, like, it should be impossible for. for people like that to die. Like it should be impossible for famous people.

Yeah, right. Yeah. And also, like, little do we even know at this time. I don't even think upon his death that we really registered this, but like, how can someone that funny and vibrant be sad? Right. You know? And be, you know, and I think that really hit us too with,

or how can they have darkness in their life? Like, how does Phil Hartman, how does Chris Farley? And especially, and I still grab all this today, Robin Williams. Yeah. And you just sit there and you're like, it's chemistry, it's brain stuff, it's medication stuff, but it's like impossible. I remember that I was, I obsessed over in my 20s of Chris Farley, that he said, because he was someone that he always wanted love in his life. And he said, this notion of love is something that would be a wonderful thing. I don't think I've ever experienced it other than the love of my family.

At this point, it's something beyond my grasp. But I can imagine it and longing for it makes me sad. And it's just, I just, I haven't thought about this quote in years. And it's just the idea of he just wanted to connect. Yeah. And he couldn't. He couldn't connect. All right, we're not talking about, I'm not going to start trying about Chris Barley right now.

But also, this is a good, this is a good opportunity to remember that at any time when we talk about at any point in history, even relatively recent history, even the history that was part of our life growing up, that everything on a kind of like cultural, political, level was shittier, right? And I feel like there is still a massive amount of hatred and dehumanization of fat people in the society. I think that in the late 90s, it was much worse. And I obviously, Chris Farley, you know, thrived, but I wonder the extent to which being, you know, the butt of the joke and like scorn so much for his size. was like a terrible, terrible weight for him, you know?

And you think about the Chippendale dancer's sketch. He is fun to watch, but the whole thing of the sketch is like, well, you're fat, so you can't be a Chippendale dancer. Right, right, right. And how much did we all internalize that, too, you know? It's so funny, too, because, like, we, that didn't register either when, like, we're getting made fun of at our own high schools for being different and for maybe even being the silly one at time.

Like, it's very interesting how, like, that's, this is all stuff that's maybe subconsciously processing, but, like, we don't even under, and I, and I can't even remember when that happened, honestly. Like, I literally can't remember his passing. It was like right before Christmas. That's why I remember. I know, yeah. Right before Christmas. It was just such devastating. I, I, I, that was, that was a rough Christmas. For for the Zabrowski household, I will say. No one wanted to smile.

I remember us asking for Christmas to be canceled because we're like, we're done. We don't want Christmas anymore. We don't want to smile ever again. And I think that's and my mother realize her children are mentally ill. But that's okay, because then the 1973 single Candle in the Wind comes back. And apparently, Candle in the Wind is the second best-selling single of all time. The first is Bing Crosby's White Christmas.

Wow. What? So I just realized I had to look up, I have to look up when the movie seven came out because that is the timeline for my own depression period, which happened, I believe, in 96. So I'm technically coming out of it now. And I think that's with the help of being able to get around more,

maybe having friends that had cars or something. Because I do remember seeing Jurassic World the day school got out. And school got out early. It was a half day. And we all went in the middle of the day to see Jurassic. I'm sorry, the Lost World. Not Jurassic World. I digress.

Is it, when you looking that up because we're both looking at the same article that Brad Pitt and Gweth Paltrow, they called off their engagement in 1997? No, but I'm awesome. Yeah, wait, I didn't even realize they were engaged. Yeah, I forgot that they were engaged too. They were together for two and a half years. There was these requirements for hot people to, like it just was like, famous hot person woman and famous hot person man.

If you're at the top of your game and whatever your field is, you just have to date the other gender equivalent of the person in that same. What do you think about it? Nowadays, there's so much television, right? We've been, like, bringing this up lately. So many movies, so many things, so many celebrities now, there are more celebrities, I feel like, now,

than there were then, or the fact that, like, more people are aware of more of them. And if you think about it... We're more aware of the same celebrities. Right. And I feel like they probably weren't around other people very much. Yeah. You know, like, of being that kind of super celebrity.

Right. Well, it was, because there weren't a bunch of different apps. Like, now, if you're TikTok famous, I probably don't know who the fuck you are, unless you're that Addison girl, right? And that's literally the only, like, named TikTok star I could say. Whereas if I asked any teenager right now who were, like, the top TikTok stars, they would list off like 20 probably easily.

There's YouTube stars and TikToks. It's just so many places. Yeah. Yeah. Fame is much more like, like, democratized. Yeah. Yeah, completely. And so, yeah, exactly.

And you can, like, live in these different spaces, which is good and bad. I think that we were able to have, like, constant. same conversations and now, whereas, where as, or back then, whereas now it's like, it's just all over the place. We're kind of more teaching each other about our own things that we super love. Yeah. You know what I mean? As opposed to back in the day where we were just like, everybody loved, I mean,

here's a great example too of like, everybody loved it. Men in Black, right? That shit came out and that was the soundtrack of the summer. That was the movie everybody saw. Everybody knew all the lines, all the scenes. we're watching the music video on repeat every day on MTV. Because I don't know about y'all, but I was on MTV hardcore at this point,

especially over the summer. So this is back to again where we are very different ages. Let's give a reminder where we all are at. The age, yeah, we gotta do the age. I'm in fifth grade. I'm 15. When you're 15 and someone tells you they love you, you gotta believe them.

That didn't come out in 1997. No one told me, nor did anyone, nor did anyone. nor did anyone ever tell me they love me. This was probably the year. I believe I'm freshman, so I'm not getting all drugged out yet. Yeah, you're a freshman. But I am asking a girl to a homecoming dance, and I wanted to be the first of my friends to do it,

and she said, no. And then later in the day, she approached me while I was sad waiting for my mom or dad to pick me up, just standing in that one spot I stand in because it's where I can be alone. And wouldn't you know it, she walks up and taps me on the shoulder and says, I made a huge mistake.

I'm so sorry, please go with me and I was a little reluctant but I said okay and I should have said no baby but them's the breaks I guess so I did take her and she I just think you know I don't know I should have just been like no

you fucking said no no it's nice to give someone another chance though and we did and we had an awesome time and she was a total sweetheart and she literally said that's the most fun I've ever had oh that's such a happy ending hole and you frame it like you were a sad boy mad boy but it turns out you have a good time

My buddy Brian and I, we went to, what's it called? The Asian restaurant where they cook everything in front of you. Benihana. Benihana. MJ loves Benihana. My favorite chain restaurant. I love a Benihana. Let's go to Benihana.

Oh, man. Let's get them as a sponsor. Let's get Benihana. Let's get Benihana. Let's get Benihana. It's so fun. It's so good. Let's go.

I'm going to arrest you. I'm going to send a pack of dogs at your house right now, Jack. Can you drag me to a Benihana because I would love to see the artistry. Of the chefs. It's so fun. But we went, and I remember the night before, my buddy Brian slept over at my place, and we made a bet about who could,

who, I think we were trying to, like, it was a joke, but it was like, who can embarrass our dates more by being silly at the dinner? And then he, like, totally froze up, and I just went hard on it and, like, just made them everybody. But no, no, no, but they loved it.

No, no, no, I was being hilarious. I was, like, doing the chaplain biscuit dance and stuff. Yeah, you mean the bedding June biscuit dance, but fine. What? Oh, yeah, Biddy and two happened before Chappar. That came first. Yeah, breathe first. No, this is around the time period that I remember when I moved to Florida and everyone

knew how to ride a bike and I didn't know how to ride a bike and everyone was always out on their bikes and that's how everyone like made friends and we were never outdoor kids. And so I was like, I'm going to get a pogo stick. So I bought a pogo stick. I have a pogo stick too. And the thing is that did you make friends with your pogo stick? because it turns out no one wants to be friends

with the person that has a Pogo stick until they get older and then you realize oh the person with a Pogo stick likes drugs and yes that is a stereotype but I think that it is true

I've never met a person that likes to Pogo that does not enjoy drugs all right so my way I've tried to solve it was Roller Blades because I really liked roller skating at the roller skating

and I got rollerblades because I also had the same exact problem as you Jackie not a bike rider and my brother super was, so my brother had a lot of friends in the neighborhood, but me, not so much. So I ended up eventually getting rollerblades to try to solve this issue. And I remember I was like, I would go down really, I can't believe I used to do this. I would go down like really pretty steep hills and just try to see how like crazy fast I could get it going or how dangerous.

You know, I was kind of chasing that dragon, right? Chasing that drilling rush, which was so dumb. And I remember I was going down this hill and I busted so hard going so fast and I fucking. and fell into a mailbox and knocked it over. I was like, and I was all scratched up. I was all cut up and bloody. And a car just like was pulling right up. I was like, oh good, someone to help me.

And it just stopped, looked, and just kept on. They're just like, look at that idiot. That moment felt like my entire like middle school, right? Like my entire time during that period was like that where I was just like, I need help. Someone please help me. and then someone like almost maybe being that person that's gonna give you some guidance or mentorship or something

and they just stop and they just keep on. There's some mentorship. That's so sad. I didn't really have that. Like I feel like my, at this point my dad was like so busy with being a lawyer and my mom. I think also being the second child in hindsight, I think by the time I was in high school,

I mean, I think they were just over it. Yeah, of course. You know what I mean? Because my brother's already like about to go to college. I'm, you know, they've already kind of, I just, I don't know, I just feel like I didn't have that. In fact, to the point where, I mean, the way I got out of my depression when seven fucked with my head and I couldn't sleep for like weeks on end, it was literally me going downstairs and being like, I need help. Like, I think I need to sleep in you guys room for a little bit like this. I'm really, you know, I can't, like, I kept myself so much that that was like the hugest deal in the world to me to just be like, I can't sleep.

I need help. Like, I never communicated like that to my person. parents. I think I was afraid to. Afraid to communicate to, like, anybody on that level and be vulnerable. You know what I mean? Because I feel like I was raised up, and I think this was a Charlotte thing and a my family thing, I was definitely raised up to just be like, just make sure everyone thinks you are the status quo and always, always. You don't need therapy. You don't need help. You are a, you are on top of it, you know, a soon-to-be-be-adult child. You are in, you know what I mean?

everything is normal. I just want everyone know I'm normal. I'm not gay. I'm not, you know what I mean? I'm not weird. I don't do plays. I don't want to be creative. Especially in 97.

That was such a like, it was such a fear that we lived in that someone would see us as different from everybody else. Yes. And I know that that is a fear of growing up regardless of what age it is. But I do honestly feel that the late 90s was a particularly, as someone that had an older sister who was at that age, but in the late 80s, early 90s, she was like, shit was different then. Yeah.

It really, like, she was like, she even said, like, in New York, she was like, I never really got, like, made fun of for being a bigger girl. Like, I never got, like, it wasn't, like, and I imagine it was different and obviously in different places in the country. Yeah. Because in New York, I never felt the same as when I did when I moved. Starting in Florida was really when it was the, like, I want to fit in. I need to fit in.

If I don't fit in, I'm going to die. And I know that was part the age group, part the time period, when, like, you know, the beginning of the obsession of, like, celebrity couples and that kind of thing. And it transformed from, at least in my brain, from the early 90s of, like, heroin chic into almost even thinner. Yes. I don't even know how they did. Yes. Like, that the ideal body type was even thinner by the late 90s.

This Tyra Banks cover has really brought me back to that. Yeah. because that, I remember that Tyra Banks cover got my beans solution. You know what I mean? I do. Because in 1997, Tyra Banks was the first black model to have a solo Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue cover. So we were just talking about this.

Which is insane. By the way, infathomable. It took until 1990s for that to happen. We were just talking about Sports Illustrated, like the more recent ones, you know, Sports Illustrated making these milestones like with Megan the Stallion. but like the idea that in 19, the late 90s, 97. They were like, look at us, a black woman on a magazine.

Wow. We will accept our metal now. What's what I'm talking about? And every other way, too, she's like textbook, a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model. Like, it's so funny too. But at least I will say, I don't remember that being like, oh, but black woman on the cover. Like, I don't remember that being a thing even though at least that at least I was, anybody

around me was thinking. Or at least, no, not for us. and the people in our family know, but I'm sure it was in other places. Yeah, this is giving me so many flashbacks, and I have a big one to talk about, by the way, a big event this year. But just Charlotte was so cookie cutter.

I think Florida is like just a great, I think there's just an anger in Florida that just seeps into everything, Jackie. I don't know, because I don't think you necessarily, like my private school, Charlotte, I mean, y'all went to Charlotte, right? I've never been. No, I have been to Charlotte.

Yeah, yeah, right? y'all went did you i was like trying to remember yeah yeah it's a class difference i am going to throw that out there i think that i very much i do feel that is what it is and not that like that's a barb i think like as a state the state as a whole is a class difference from a hundred percent you know but but that doesn't make it better or worse no different and there's also very rich parts of florida too and you know and it's still filled with you know a lot of toxic did you deal with because i feel like this especially hit really hard in like middle and high school when you're just you're feeling so many things and you just want to be able to be honest and real, but you can't. Did you deal with the kind

of bullshit Southern hospitality garbage that, you know, we all, that I did in North Carolina where everybody's just like, hey, you know, so nice. Hello there. Especially moving from New York at that time period. Not only, I think that's why my mom and I got so close, though, is because my mom didn't understand. She's like, they all, they're, they're nice to you to face. But then they're talking shit behind your back. That's not how we do it in New York. I got something to fucking say, I'm going to fucking say it to you, and then we're going to be smiling and having lunch to hours later. And that's, but then coming into that, as a Midwestern era, it's such a refreshing, because

the Midwest is, I know that there is probably important distinctions between Southern hospitality and Minnesota nice, but it's like, same thing in Midwest, it's just like, oh, okay, great. And then it's just like, you know. And I'm almost certain this is the year I read Catcher in the Rye for the first time. So I think a lot of me, and also, and also listen to, like, Rage Against the Machine and Wootang Clan, and we're about to talk about that because I maybe went to the Rage of Wu Tang show around this time of my life. But that was the big event I was referring to, and I'll talk more about that just a second. But all that to say, like, a lot of my mentality at this point is everyone's fake, everyone's a phony, everyone, you know what I mean?

Like, everyone in my town, like, I'm real. These people are not, like, and I'm so sick of this bullshit. And even though at the same time, I'm, like, shitty as well. You know what I mean in my own way? But having that, I'm just going back to a lot of like that anger that I had inside of me and that frustration. And hey, let's actually go talk before we get into Rage Wu-Tang. Wait, wait, MJ hasn't gotten into where they were at this time period. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, please.

Yeah, well, it was, it was basically the opposite of you, Holden, because we talked about this in 1998. But in 1997, that was the year. I was like, it's time for me to make friends. Okay. So I grew out my book. bangs. I tried to grow up my hair. I had always had short hair. I had been truly, truly not thin again. Like, can't emphasize enough. Dressing like I was in the 1920s, like wearing button-up shirts, suspenders, you know, like really extremely struggling to be even remotely

normal. What grade is this? No friends. This was fifth going into six. So, yeah. So the summer before my sixth grade year I decided I wanted friends. Terrible. Terrible. Yeah. The worst time. And so, yeah, I grew out some bangs and some tried to get some regular hair. Although I posted this on my Instagram recently, I like found this picture from my first day of sixth grade where I was like, I'm going to be like more gender conforming to be normal. And it's like so not even close at all. But I'm not, it's not, I thought that it would be like, oh, I was doing femme and I look uncomfortable, but I wasn't even doing femme. I'm still wearing a, I know.

a no fear t-shirt. Yeah. I'm wearing like very baggy pants. I basically just grew my hair out. And I was like, well, if I have long hair, then everyone will stop, like, thinking I'm so weird. And so, but I tried to, I, like, plunge myself into pop culture to immerse myself. And, you know, so it was like, I was like, I have to know everything about the spice girls. And so, you know, backstreet boys.

And so I was like trying. I was the exact opposite of where you were. Although, of course, I still had a lot of, like, anger and resentment about. about all of it but I wanted it and so it was it was by 1998 I had kind of hit my stride and was like

all right this is what we're doing 1997 was when I was it was like I was learning another language I was like I will learn the language of the pop culture MJ you are speaking my language so hard even though this wasn't the time the year for me for this the I will just say my transition for fifth grade

to sixth grade was so fucking jarring and now that I think about it is I literally I feel like I went from like I have friends, we play on the playground, everyone's equal, there's no status, there's no table, there's no jocks and nerds and stuff. And overnight it changed. I think the reason why I was so jarring looking back in it, same school. I went to the same campus because I went to a private school that went from kindergarten to senior year. So, and I think that was a lot of the frustration going to freshman year as I started to click, oh my God, I'm only going to get like

a few new people a year. I'm stuck in this ecosystem until I graduate. like I am going to be this person. I have been chosen to be this whatever person everyone decided I was and there was no breaking out of it. And definitely having girlfriends was not a part of that trait. Right. So I just feel like I struggled so hard. And you know, that's why college was like a revelation for me because I was like, oh my God, I can change.

I can just be someone else in a different space. But yeah, man, fifth to, it was like overnight playing on the playground, having everyone being equal and then all of a sudden, We have lockers. We go to different rooms for each class, and we have to care about girls and what people think of us. And, you know, all this stuff that I was not prepared for.

I was still like, I still want to play with action figures. I still want to be a silly person on the playground. And there's just overnight it gets ripped from you. It was so challenging. Yeah, so you have a bunch of like 11-year-olds and 12-year-olds out here trying, I mean, this was the first year that I went to any parties, but like I went to parties with kids

who were just like slamming vodka and stuff and I was like, yeah, like literally we had just been watching the Lion King, you know, yeah. And so kids are doing and making out. Yeah. This was the first year I made out with anyone. Wow. Because it's just like, wow.

I mean, I was a good at me but also yucky. Oh, it was disgusting. It was on the playground. Oh. Like, because I still, my elementary school was K to 6. So I was still in elementary school. But like, we were just like, like, trying to learn out a kiss on the playground, which is not inherently, you know, I think a lot of people probably

learned to kiss on the playground. But it was just, we were too old to be at that school. We were too young to be at middle school. Honestly, sixth graders, you got to just, again, my theory was six graders is they need to be doing a project or something. They can't be in normal school. It's too weird of a year. I was in love with the, I was in love with fraternal twins. John and Gina, and I was completely in love with both of them. And I tried to be friends with them. And I remember at one point in time that I went up to John and I asked for his phone number so that we could all, like the three of us could be friends. I don't know what I thought that it would happen. And I remember he pushed me away and said, get out of here.

And I was like, okay. And I feel like it's like that moment in The Simpsons of the like watching the heart break. And it was just what a fifth grade thing of just get out of here. I was like, okay. Well, talking about getting, like, phone numbers and stuff. Also, congratulations to me, by the way, for asking for a phone number. When I was in fifth grade, I was new to the school. My mom was like, just go ahead and ask.

Just to be friends. You know, you guys can be friends. It's bold, and it's a reminder that the social landscape was very hard back then because you couldn't just be friends on social media. You had to get someone's phone number. Yeah. And, well, here's the other thing I was about to bring up. I don't know if it hit big this year, but it definitely launched this year.

AOL's Instant Messenger. Oh my God. Launched in 1997. Really? Oh, I didn't bring this up on the last time when we did 1998 because flower power 98 was always on AIM. I wish I remembered. Flour Power 98 is definitely a very AIM and also very late 90s specific because this was,

I don't know if this is on any of the things we're referencing right now. But 1997, if you remember the Delia's catalog, Jackie. Oh, do you? I. Big year for 60s nostalgia. Very big. Really, really, really intense 60s nostalgia. Psychicillard stuff.

Yeah, like a lot of like, you know, it was the year of the flare pant return. It was like a lot of flowy-ass shirts, you know, shirts with keyholes. Because again, I was trying to do, I was doing like female drag at this point. So I had all this Delia shit that was like all sorts. I looked like a fucking boy dressed as a hippie woman from the 60s.

because I, like, there was so much 60s nostalgia, and the Delia's catalog was just like, this 85-pound, you know, adult woman is wearing giant flare jeans, and you need them too. Completely. And it is, I'm just looking at pictures of Delia's catalogs right now. But it is interesting because, again, like we've talked about, it all comes back.

Butterfly clips, huge in 1997. Huge. Huge. Platform shoes, huge in 1997. They are now. coming back, we are seeing the cycle of the fashion trends. Mood rings. Oh my God, I had so many mood rings and I don't think they do anything.

Oh, and the ball chain necklaces. Hemp necklaces. A big year for hemp necklaces as well. And I'll say this, even as someone who had no knowledge of Delia's catalogs, like, if you want a fashion mind blow nostalgia bomb, just Google Delia's catalog because this is like. It's insane. So. with the long-sleeve shirts with like the stripes on the oh my god yes the chest stripes

chest stripes were very in like a single a shirt and this was as I was trying to figure out what's everyone wearing who's cool it is a shirt a long-sleeve shirt but like it's not a well-fitting shirt it's a loose long-sleeve shirt with a single stripe across the arms and the chest and it's like yeah it's it's v-nex it's definitely a lot of a like tight sexy Henleys like waffle print ones with the three buttons. Oh yeah. Because are we getting out of the era of Jinkos? Are we leaving the Jinko era?

No, it was still a Jinko. It was still a Junko time. But Delius was too classy for Jinkgo's. Delius was like. Yeah, yeah. Dealia is the real deal. These are a bunch of. And they are looking now,

they are children in the cat. They're like definitely like 16 year olds. I was, you know, 12. So I thought like these were like the height, these models were like the height of like adult sophistication. but like they were just like, oh, these girls are what cool girls look like. They're mostly very white. They're all incredibly thin.

Yes. And it's like it was just tight-ass baby teas. Yeah. And it was still, you know, we were still in the tight on bottom or tight on top, loose on bottom era, you know? It was large and in charge. I had some of these things. Like I'm looking at these pictures and I'm like, I think I had that shirt.

I was just going to say not, if we can stay on fashion if you want, but I do want to spend a little time talking about what I think is probably one of the bigger cultural touchstones besides Princess Die, and that would be Titanic. Yes. That was just this event, whether you loved it or hated it,

I remember, I feel like I saw the movie, probably opening weekend or in the first weeks, definitely. I may have gone with my mom. I remember I was at the stage where I still didn't just enjoy crying at movies. So I was trapped in my own body, during the sad parts where I was trying desperately to not cry

in a dark movie theater where no one would have seen it and no one would have cared. Actually, no, I bet my mom would have fucking cared because there's no emotions in my house. But I remember being, I definitely was a person who felt like they had to act like they didn't like the movie. When at the end of the day, in hindsight, I probably did enjoy the movie.

Masculinity, man. This is such a, this was, I think that everybody who was a boy at this time or was, you know, living as a boy at this time had to be, like, oh, whatever, that's for chicks, even though probably a lot of them saw it because your group of friends all went in some movies, you know, and you probably were moved by it, because how could you not be? Right.

But boys had to act like they didn't care, and it was just to do they really need it. I just like the cool explosion part. I just like the special effect. I like when everybody dies, which is essentially, I think, what, um, what boys were supposed to say. Yeah, exactly. I keep, I keep thinking about how, like, as someone, the cultural lexicon in Charlotte, you had to, you had to love golf, college basketball, fucking NASCAR, and like, just all that shit.

So you're describing yourself right now because if there's one thing I know about, Holden to McNeckney. Exactly, right? I was just as an unathletic person who actually deep down and he won't find this out for another 20 years, like loves musicals and, you know, because even the, I mean, shit, and now we could even, I want to stand in titating for a bit longer, but I mean, definitely rage Wu Tang. We will get it to that. It's like the most testosterone-filled insane event I've ever been to.

Yeah. Titanic is the first movie to ever surpass a worldwide box office gross of $1 billion. And the fact that James Cameron, because I also didn't know this, James Cameron beat his own record with the release of Avatar, which grossed $1.858 billion in 39 days, 12 years later. but I also had no idea that Gloria Stewart in Titanic was nominated for Best Supporting Actress who plays Old Rose. Oh yeah. And she was oldest person to have ever been nominated for an Oscar.

I knew that the Titanic, Titanic ripped out a bunch of records. Yeah. You know, this was, it was such a huge, they still referred to it as one of the greatest movies of all time. Of course, keeping in mind the fact that like, well, prices change over time. The fact that things keep breaking records is because, of, you know, economy and how our country changes.

But then there's just, it still has the highest number. Oh, I apologize. La La Land has now tied with it as the highest number of Oscar nominations. And that is 14 nominations. Boo, La La Land. Whatever, it's fine. But it just felt, Titanic just felt like a whole event. It felt like a whole lifestyle, you know?

Well, I went to, did you see ever, do you ever see one of the traveling museum? Like, of all the artifacts of the Titanic that, like, I was so excited when it was coming to the museum close to my hometown and we traveled to go see it. And I remember dragging Henry. Henry didn't want to be at the museum about the Titanic. He didn't give a shit about it. Again, he had to. He had to.

Yeah. He culturally had to hate it as a young boy. But it also is funny that this, he had to hate it as a boy, but it is funny that it translated. because I remember I took a summer camp class on the mechanics of how the Titanic sank. Why did I do? Like Titanic's success was so huge that all bunch of sixth grade girls were just like, let's learn about the Titanic. Not just the Leo and Kate parts, but like the actual Titanic.

Like boats. Let's learn about boats. Let's learn about aquatic architecture. Insane. Yeah. It was unavoidable. I remember just the walls of copies of it when it came out on Blockbuster too

was just so crazy. I had the soundtrack. Of course. Very good. I'm sorry, but the soundtrack absolutely holds up. Well, and Celine Dion, right? I mean, were you already a fan of Celine by this point?

I think this was kind of the first time I had really heard of Celine Dion. Same. I was not already. I mean, I liked it's all coming back to me, but Jackie probably had a relationship with Celine Dion already by this point. I really loved Celine Dion.

I loved her. Again, made me nice. no friends. But I really liked Celine Dion's music. And also, Celine Dion was up for, I think that she was up for an Oscar this year as well, if I remember correctly, that like up close and personal, right?

Or am I just the, am I the only Salini over here? You're a Salini-weeney. You're the only Salini-weeny. Yeah, I'm a Selenie. And I'm a weenie for Salini, and I'm fine with it. I'm more of a Dion Peon. Oh.

It is crazy. I'm looking at these pictures of couples of the Oscars in 1997. Oh, wow. Good Google search. Talk about the difference of couples. Remember earlier when I said that Gwyneth Paltrow broke off her engagement to Brad Pitt. Yes. In this year.

But in the same year, she started dating, which I completely forgot about, Ben Affleck. So weird. She dated Ben Affleck between 1997 to 2000. And in 1997, which I also forgot about, Gwyneth Paltrow was best friends with Winona Ryder, and she introduced Winona Ryder to Matt Damon at a New Year's Eve party, and then they started dating. And what a four-bowl relationship of people to, like, go hang out with,

especially in 1997. Like, that's a hot for-bull right there. Was Goodwill Hunting also this year? Yes. They won the Oscar next year, because I remember that during our 1998 thing. It came out. But yes, this was the launch of Affleck and Damon. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, but at this time, J-Lo is Dayton Puff Daddy. Now I do remember that. Yes, I remember that as well. And again, the whole, I guess, for lack of a better phrase, monetization of Biggie Smalls' death was unbelievable that year. I mean, just the whole life after death, double CD, the music video. running constantly. I mean, it was this bizarre combination of

this is so tragic and this is so unbelievably sad. It like started Puff Daddy and like Bad Boy Records completely, though. Like it did also like launch a whole other part of music that is now like seen as like as a big part of music. Oh, hip hop's so cool this year

too, of course with um, you've got Missy Elliott blowing up huge this year. You've got what was the other one, Buster Rimes fucking blowing up right now, which is fun because rap that says to me, like, rap has kind of found it standard kind of essentially at this point, and now people are starting to get weird with it, which was always the fun point, right? And we get really weird with it, especially over the past few years

in the 2020s and the 2010s, but man, it was so fun to see, like, people really put a completely bizarre and different spin on hip hop in this way. And also, yeah, we just had to, like, listen It was a song about a dead guy, every other, every other radio hit track. I feel like so, I grew up, maybe I shouldn't blame where I grew up. I did grow up in what was at this time, the widest county in America. But there was just, there was like, I did not know anyone who listened to hip-hop. I, like, it was not even remotely part of my life other than the kind of like vague, holdover, like, tipper gore anxiety about it.

Like, oh, there's swear words, you know, there's explicit warnings on the, on the, you know, CD covers and stuff. Aside from, like, anything that was in, like, the top 10 or whatever. And so, yeah, with, like, I'll be missing you. I, like, loved that song. Totally didn't know that it was a... I didn't know about the original police song. Didn't know anything about Biggie.

Didn't know anything about Tupac. Like, what was my experience of that song without any of this context, you know? Like... It was just a banger of a game song. Outside of everything, it's also just happens to be a really great fucking song. I mean, as a middle schooler who went to private school during this time, we listened to a lot of hip-hop. It was very much.

We were definitely living incredibly sheltered, protected lives, and definitely listening to a lot of Dr. Dre's the Chronic and Snoop Dogg and whatever we can get our hands on to just feel like we're badass and act like we're badass. This really shows our age difference because what made me feel badass because I didn't realize in 1997, Big Willie style. Oh, yeah. That I remember. I was obsessed with Big Willie style.

Will Smith, this was his time. This was his biggest time. He was so huge. And again, Minn and Black, as much as Titanic was that serious big epic film,

Minuton Black was the fun comedy of the summer. Everybody saw it. And Will Smith was in everybody's earlobes at that point. I also wasn't even thinking because Bad Boys came out in 95. Independence Day came out in 96.

and then fucking men in black comes out in 97. This is all like, that's insane. Killing the game. And I think actually establishing a new lane for celebrity. It's like, no, you can have the hit album of the summer, the hit fucking movie of the summer. That's true. And all of it, all at once,

and be this huge larger than life personality. And I think that people really started to seek that out in different ways. And then also this is speaking of a movie. this is the year that Batman died. Yeah. Batman and Robin hits, 97 and the era of Batman, and really superhero movies in general go away largely

because of this film. I mean, I think this, you could point to this film and be like, oh, the MCU, like that space between, like, Tim Burton's Batman and the MCU, that is there largely because of the movie Batman and Robin. I see you later. What were there?

Like his lines in that movie. You can look up a master cut, and I strongly urge, Everyone to do this, especially if you just want to be putting a, if you're in a shitty mood right now and you want to feel good, throw on the master cut on YouTube of every ice pun that Arnold Schwarzenegger says in Batman and Robin. There is absolutely a master cut of that.

It's so funny. And there's so many of them, I mean. That are in a completely different way this morning. I watched, there was a clip for the Olympics's current day, an Olympics clip of all of the best screams in the Olympics so far of just either out of frustration or out of ecstasy. And that really also put a big smile on my face as you guys were wondering.

I think my go-to put a smile on your face is the video of Kim Kutel doing the slam poetry with her husband. No, the no, the no. My condition has left me cold to your pleas of mercy. Tonight hell freezes over. All right, everyone, chill the iceman coming. It's great. Let's kick some ice.

I do wonder because I recently rewatch Batman Forever and about 45 minutes into Batman Forever. I'm like, man, you know what? I still love Batman Forever. I don't give a shit. Yeah, it's fun. And it's great. I love Batman Forever and I feel like it gets shit sometimes.

And Batman and Robin, I do kind of want to rewatch. And I don't know if I should. Because I was big into Chris O'Donnell because of the Three Musketeers. Oh, yeah. I don't think, I think, That didn't come out. Did that not come out?

I will say if we're staying in movies, I just want to throw it out too because I feel like y'all were in a different boat than me. But this is definitely a part where I don't have a car, I don't have like good access to transportation. We can't really mix it up,

getting to bad shit. Nobody's like 18 yet. We can't even buy cigarettes or porn or whatever. So I'm definitely living in the movie theater quite a bit and have very specific, fond movie theater.

Okay, good. Even though you're a little younger, I feel like even all through middle school, I was trying to go as much as I could. Because there wasn't anything else to do. So you could go to the mall, you could go to the movies, or as we discussed, you could go to Blockbuster or the Roller Inc. Yeah.

And that's it. That's why a lot of my music memories of this at this time are also at the roller rink. But I remember seeing I know what you did last summer in the movies, which came out in 1990. That was like the icon of like to me that in this like time that I was in of like trying to be like grown and cool and like bad. I'd always been like so good and I wanted to be bad.

Like I know what you did last summer was like the icon of like pre-teen sexuality for me. It was like, ooh, it's like, it's like stabby and sexy. It was like Fear Street but like embodied in Ryan Philippe, you know. Yes. For me, big movie theater experiences for me, Starship Troopers was one of those where It's a good one. It was great in the movie theater too, and especially if you,

I thought that movie was going to be absolute trash and I was literally just going because I was bored and, you know, ninth grade. But, so it was one of those great movies where like you just walk out of the theater being like, fuck, yeah, that was awesome. Dude, even when you were saying,

like I'm starting to realize this was a big year of movies for me of starting to watch more older movies. This is the year. Face Off comes out this year. Fifth Element comes out this year. Dante's.

comes out this year. I still love Dante's Peak. And, oh man, a spoiler alert, lets the grandmother die in the volcanic river. Well, technically she gives up her life to save everybody else,

but still. But this also is the same year as fun rom-coms when I started trying to watch these a little bit more like the movie In-N-Out, which I would like to do a pop history on someday.

Sure. That's a weird one. In-out. I think it was very weird. for a child as this young to be this obsessed with this movie. And that is Kevin Klein and Joan Cusack and Tom Selleck and Matt Dillon. In and Out was a great movie. Do you guys remember In and Out? I loved it and I didn't know it was directed by Frank Oz. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Also, that is Scream 2. Big, big sexy movie at the time. Now we're in the revival of the Slasher because Scream came out last year, right? And now we're going to get Urban Legends. we got, I know what you did last summer. Like, we're in, the Slasher is King and, like, the meta movie kind of horror movie is king.

Like the movie, horror movie commenting on the genre. It revitalized horror, really exciting stuff. I don't even think we realized we were in it, but of course, it very quickly, whereas the Slasher revival very quickly wears its welcome out, because H2O, fucking all those, all those movies just

came out constantly, and you're like, okay, we get it, like, and then we find out who the real person is at the end, and maybe it's three people. like it wasn't screened too. And my best friend's wedding. Yeah, I was going to say, so you were talking about romantic comedies. I remember because I'm not allowed to like romantic comedies, right? So around this time.

But I remember my brother being like, yeah, I was like dragged to go see it. And it's actually really, really funny. You should definitely watch it. And I ended up watching it. I was allowed to watch it because my brother said I could. And I remember really being so surprised at how funny it is. Yeah, my best friend's wedding and the soundtrack to my best friend's wedding. Like, it was so good.

And it was like, that. That was like another piece of like cultural literacy that I literally remember being in my basement listening to that soundtrack and being like everyone knows this soundtrack. So if I know this soundtrack, I will be like everyone else, you know. Also it is weird. It was a big year of like memorializing people as well because this is the year that J-Lo did Selena. And that was also talking about when you were talking about earlier about like Princess Dye and watching that of like the fact that a mom could die. I just remember watching Selena, understanding that Selena was a real person

and listening to the soundtrack all the time, trying to listen to as much Selena as I could because it was also the idea, I think, was the first time that I really understood that celebrities could die to that extent. Like, that's someone that it was like, but she was so young. Chris Farley.

And she was so like, you know, and then she could just die. She goes murder. Yeah. Like, I feel like it was different with Chris Farley even because it was like, well, because he OD'd and not that, you know, that's an addiction,

that's a much different issue. The fact that she was murdered changed me. And Samma Princess dies. Yeah, changed my brain. Totally. I never thought about that before. I'm looking at other big, important things that I don't want to miss. And it's like, I feel like it's,

I associate this time so much with like all of these extremely, you know, skinny, kind of perfect, like images of, on magazine covers and this like extreme heteronormativity and stuff. But also, it was the year that Daria came out. Yes. And even though I was over here trying to do my best to fit in, I remember watching Daria and being like,

I have never felt so seen in my entire life. And like it was, that felt like such an important, uh, I mean, like obviously, and she'd been in a character of Beavis and Butthead, and Beavis and Buthead was already like doing amazing things with cartoons.

But Darya just felt like for, for kids who were like angsty, maybe especially for girls who were angstly, I don't know how it was for you, Holden, but I feel like, for like, it was the first time I had ever seen a girl portrayed being, like, pissy and unhappy, but in like a wonderful, wonderful way. Yeah. Again, MJ, I'm not allowed to, like, that's a girl show for girls. Even Daria, really?

So I'm not allowed to, like, I mean, no, I would watch that, but even still. Yeah, I mean, I believe you. I'm looking back, you know, there's, yeah, toxic masculinity is fucking real and it's sad. I feel like in that time period, it was like, well, boys can't watch Darry. are you, boys watch people. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that was still the, like...

Just now's the best time to say it, man, South Park drops. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So perfect for me, personally. I remember, like, Simpsons was like the show, you know, that got me through middle school, but I needed to turn it up a notch. You know what I mean?

Content-wise. I needed to dirty it up a bit because I, we're being bad kids now. I mean, we're full-on sneaking cigarettes, you know, whenever the parents aren't looking and all that kind of stuff. And I'm just starting to dabble with, you know, soon I'm going to really get

into alcohol and weed the next year. But yeah, definitely South Park. And then you find that radio head out. And that radio head out. Okay, computer. Woo. Okay. But again, showing our age differences that this is the year that Tomogatchi is dropped.

Oh, did I have a Tomogachi? I was a, I was a, called me a Tomabitchie because I, I was obsessed with my tomogachies. And like to the point that I would give them to my. sister when I would go to school and be like, you cannot let them die. And my sister had like a job. She was just an adult. And I was like, and so I'd give her all four of my tamagacacchi's and I would make like, like, it was like you have to, they can't die by the end of the day. And she did it every day when I would go to school. And she only killed them like a couple times. Yeah, Tamagachi I think was like

very impressive. Maybe it wasn't the beginning, but this was like a great year for for toy marketing because it was like Beanie Babies. It was like the McDonald's hot, happy meal, beanie babies that you had to like not only have regular Beanie. Oh my God. I still have them all. Don't worry. Don't steal for me.

Don't, I know that now everyone thinks my house is a hot button house to target, but don't worry, all the Beanie Babies just told my mother's. Yeah, Beanie Babies is definitely one of the earliest examples of a thing where I was like, that's goofy. I'm not going anywhere near that. That just does not seem, not that I'm better than everybody else, but that was

just, you know, I feel like we're starting to to be more discerning, at least I am at this point in my life. I don't just, you know, have to kind of go with the flow with everything. And, you know, I remember that happened with like pogs as well. I was like, I'm not fucking getting into this. This just seems ridiculous. You know what I mean? Like, but people do remember that stuff fondly.

And yo-yo's too. I remember yo-yo's got so popular with these boys at school. And I was like, you guys are fucking ridiculous. Like, what, oh, okay, we all yo-yo now because four people decided that's the thing to do. And now they're bringing in their fancy yo-yo's. And you know what's not cool? Pogo sets and I learned it very Everyone likes yo-yo's everyone likes pogs

Wouldn't it be like maybe that's the new thing Maybe I'll be the frontrunner of the Pogo's I wish we had known each other Jackie I know I'm sure that I've said this on the show before But I have to say it again because it probably wasn't 1997 I think it was 1998 because I remember being in my seventh grade Homeroom and on the announcements They said everyone take out your assignment books

And take out a pencil and so everyone did and the assistant principal doing the announcements made us, he's like, everyone write down these letters in your assignment book, N-O-Y-O-Y-O-Y-O. And then he said, no-yo-yo. And we thought N-O-Y-O-Y-O-Y-O, no-yo, was the absolute funniest shit that it ever happened in our lives. Of course it is.

No-yo-yo. I feel like we talked about it in 98. but I will say Ellen publicly comes out in 97. And on the cover of that Time magazine, that was a huge, huge story for sure. Like what I said about it was I feel like it kind of weirdly ruined the show because then they just tokenized the coming out so much in the show. I feel like that it was like going to be a few years before we could just have a gay person on screen

being just like anyone else, you know what I mean, without any kind of extra. Like I said, it was like, Oh, you're going to the pet store. Well, everyone knows that everyone goes to the gay pet store. You know what I mean? Like every episode would be like, let's go to the gay version of whatever this normal thing is and see how funny it is to do the gay version of it anyway. It is so funny to think about that time, though, because I had literally never seen another woman with short hair, like, ever.

Yeah. Which was why I thought I must be gay too. Because, like, when she came out, I was like, I guess this probably means I'm gay. Because there was so little representation. and yeah, obviously Ellen sucks now, but that magazine cover was such a big deal. The representation did a lot for a lot of people, and I imagine that Holden,

you were drawn to the rage against the machine. Wu-Tang Clan tour because of the representation of your anger, of your year. I was terrified the whole time. I'll say that. I think you need to talk about this. Tell us, exercise your demons. Yeah, so, of course, love Rage Against the Machine.

They came out with Evil Impart. higher before this tour. Wu-Tang Clan, again, enter the 36 Chambers. I am a white kid. Listen to a lot of intense rap music because we're doing it. We're a privileged white kid in the suburbs of Charlotte,

North Carolina. So, dude, it was so funny how much, how much our middle school asses were trying to come off like we're hard or, like, we're bad at, you know what I mean, wearing collard shirts and khakis? Oh, of course. That's what, what do you think I, Why do you think I get into new metal later on?

I thought that was hardcore. Yeah, exactly. Thinking that was badass. So when it came to Raising to a few Wu-Tang, I just remember we went, I felt so like small and vulnerable. Like we get there and it was literally just like a bunch of like scary dudes on all ends of the spectrum,

like scary like skinhead dudes in the mix with like, you know, thugged out dudes and stuff. And it was just like, I just remember, I was like, this place is going to burn to the ground. Like these people are just any second just going to start to, just destroying each other.

And I'm in the middle of what this melee will become. And by the way, this was back in the day when you would go to a concert and always the fear, right? Was that the Moshfit pit would just form right around you and that you'd be stuck in the middle of it. And it always would happen to kids like us, too. Like the Mosh Pit inevitably would always just happen at us and we'd be in the middle of it for about two seconds

before we could run out of there. But you never know, you could have taken an elbow to the face in that two seconds it took you to get out of there. It was so scary. And this happened here, too. But I remember Wooten Klan came on, fucking blew the doors off the place, and then Rage came on, and they were amazing, but the Moshman formed around me and had to run away, and then my buddy, again, my buddy Brian, we were just hanging out a lot this time.

He was, his mom was our ride, or his dad, either way. And so we had to leave in the middle of the rage set. I felt like such a child. I felt so bummed out. Like, it had just started, and honestly, if you watch, like, Rage Against the Machine live footage, they are fucking awesome live. They fucking blow the doors off the place. I got to see them Lollapalooza 99, I believe was the tour,

where I got to see them finally perform like a full set. But I just remember being so scared. And looking back on it, it really was a volatile time. You had like those dudes out there, like, they were just like, yeah, rage fans and fans all this kind of crazy, hardcore music. And they're all crazy. But then hip hop's big now and gang. to be gangster, you know what I mean?

Which was ridiculous in hindsight, but, but, uh, so everybody just had such a fucking angry edge to them, which I guess was perfect for an angsty teen like myself, but also it was like, damn, guys, what are we doing here? Raised Against the Machine, the funniest thing was, like, those guys were very educated about the movements they were trying to represent, but for kids like us, we weren't like, it wasn't like opening us up to, you know, the political fights that it was based upon. I didn't realize Tom Morello was like as smart and lefty and radical as he was until, or at least lefty, yeah, like he was until I was until he went to occupy because, yeah, I was just a kid with rage and was like, but I didn't actually understand that he had politics. We were using it to say, fuck you to our parents.

Right, right, right, right. Fuck you. Yeah. Do what you tell me. We were just screaming that at our teacher, not the, you know, not the system man. No. And so that was the funny contradiction with rage as well at that time, as well as hip hop because hip hop's like, We're living on these streets.

My friends are dying. Like, this is so heavy. This is so crazy. And we're just like, fuck you, mom. You know what I mean? That is so true. There was so much panic about, the phrase gangster rap, when you said that, it's so funny, right?

It brought me back. And it was just like, the white children are listening to albums made by black people. It was just like so. Yep. How dare they? So much, like, racist panic. And I remember it being like, is there was so much like is this going to have a bad influence on our children.

It was like so much. It was way past the Tipper Gore stuff. Yeah. And that I actually didn't realize that that had all started with Prince. So weird. Because I associate that panic so much with, with quote unquote, gangster rap, you know. Yeah, totally.

And yes, the parents fear. Soon it's going to be a fear about rainbow parties and ecstasy pills. But before that, we have this fear of like the black man invading our home and making the child one of. to gun down people in the streets. It was so absurd. And at the same time, it was so, like, ridiculous and innocent.

But, you know, it was interesting. Like, I definitely had moments for, like, I remember I was on a school trip. It might not have been in 97, but I had the death row greatest hits. And I was with this guy, and he was little older than me, and he was seeing a girl on the church trip.

And I put on just a really raunchy towards women's song that was on that album. I forget which one it was, but it was just one where, like, they were just saying awful things about women. And it was actually important that he turned to be. and said this, he was like, man, I'm not into this.

You know what I mean? And there was a lot of very, like, especially, like, shitty things towards, like, women and the way that the relationship amidst all of the, like, my friends are dying, important kind of dialogues that were happening within there. And so, in hindsight, it was kind of feeding a really gross, you know, portrayal to us as we're just starting to date girls or look at girls sexually. So on the other end of the spectrum, by the way, I know we're probably, I'm probably going to wrap up soon, but I wanted to ask y'all because, again,

girl stuff for girls, so I'm not allowed to enjoy this. Lilith Fair was big during this time. Was that at all a thing for y'all? Not on my radar whatsoever. I think we were too young. It was the VH1. Behind the music also, I guess, started in 97. This is the VH1 era of importance, I think, Lilith Fair, all that. But, right, it was probably more your older sister, Jackie.

Completely. I wanted to. Like, then, like, years later, I was like, oh, man. Awesome. Yeah. I love all of those artists. And so it was definitely, I was not quite there yet, but I wanted to be. But it was only a couple of summers.

Yeah. And I just really wanted to do it so badly. And I think that's why I ended up, like, later on, going to the festivals that I would go to when I was in college because it was like trying to, like, talking about chasing the dragon. Yeah. It's not fair. Yeah, yeah. I want to do that. I want to go to Lilith Fair.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Along similar lines as, and maybe, you know, like, maybe it's not, maybe it's a silly association. But when I was talking with Gideon about doing the 1998 episode, he was like, you know, he's older than us, and he's more like Gen X. And he was like, at this time, I was listening to like Slater Kinney and Pavement. Yeah. And I didn't even, I had never heard.

I'd never heard of Lilith Fair at all when I, when that was happening. I never heard of pavement. Like, until I, I think I learned about pavement. like through listening to the mountain goats when I was in college. Like I never, I learned about Slater Kinney in high school when I got into punk. But like there was all this, like, as much as there was this like monoculture,

you know, pop culture feeling, talking to him, I was like, oh, there was cool counterculture shit. I just didn't know about it, both because of my age and because of where I lived, you know, like there was just not. Yeah, we realized neutral milk hotel that album was cut in 98, right? I mean, you're like, holy shit.

But it's, but again, not, it's instead of girl stuff for girls, that was college stuff for college kids. Yeah, right, right. And our version of that was, like, Radiohead was ushering us into that, but we weren't, I think we weren't ready. Another big news story that just,

I have to mention for nostalgia's sake, Tyson biting off Holyfield's ear was 97. Great time. Wow. That was everywhere. And the computer that beats the computer, the chest genius as well. There's like all, like, this is an iconic year for many different things,

which is why we only like... We didn't even talk about the spice world and the spice girls and how everyone had to know what spice world. We didn't talk about how Jeff Buckley dies this year. Again, that's something I'm not going to recognize until college though I feel like, you know what I mean? Yeah.

But yeah, yeah, I remember this was... Barney was the first instance of this, but Telitubbies was this a close second of like, I'm a big kid now, so I think that stuff's lame and dumb. That was definitely where... That was the line I was drawing as well. I don't watch it. Telitubbies was my first ironic watching.

Like we, as sixth graders, we all got very into the telitubbies, and it was like, yeah, that's for little kids. But, like, actually, it's kind of, there's a baby in the sun. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's, like, that was definitely my first ironic distance pop culture consumption. I love it. I was singing the words to the, the Meredith Brooks song, bitch, and my mom would allow me to sing it. Mom, I'm singing a song. I can say those words.

and I would say the word bitch really loud every time I said it because I thought I was being edgy and now I can say bitch whenever I want bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch. That was me listening to the offspring for the first time being like, wow. It's way.

La la la. Hey, shout us to offspring, by the way. After watching that Woodstock 99 documentary, they were like the one band who got up there and was like, hey, I don't really like what I'm seeing out there with the women crowd surfing. It's just not cool, man. You know what I mean?

Like, they really got points for me. Yeah, they were like the only band. Everyone else, they were like, can you please calm the crowd down? I just gotta break stuff. Yeah, you fuckers want to break stuff. Like, like, serious. Like every other band, they were like, can you guys please not? Oh, won't you stand next to my fire?

I can't believe Red Hot Chili Peppers got away with singing. Once you stand next to my fire as they were lighting the entire fucking festival on fire. Anyways, we'll get to it later. But holy shit. I'm sorry, I also was watching a trailer because I forgot the paragraph of the Rappah came out in 1927. That means PlayStation and N64. I didn't want to get it too nerdy with y'all. Of course, yeah, but Perapa the Rapper was like,

that was one of the only things that I was into. Kick, punch, it's all in the mind. Kick punch, jump. Yeah, I love it. Dude, I have it, by the way, Jackie. If you want a nostalgia blast, come over and we will play through all of it. I have it on my PS4. And they did a re-release it recently.

I'm completely. I had Jordan Temple on my stream back when I did that 24-hour stream, and he came over to play Parapa the Rapa, and, like, couldn't get over it. Because, like, of all the nostalgia just that came back, to him playing that game. He's like, this is amazing. I'm down completely. And again, we're going to have to revisit this at some point because there's a lot more that happens in this year, but I'm so glad that we're able to touch upon as much as we did, even though she's a man, baby.

Austin Powers starts this year, too. Because I can't even believe we didn't talk about that, MJ, when we were talking about the resurgence of the 16thes. It was totally Austin Powers. That's right. I forgot that this was the year of Austin Powers. Every single reference. I made was about Austin. Man, I gave a lot of money to Blockbuster this year. I mean, this is the year I'm just, all I'm doing is like watching movies and playing video games and just trying to escape. And I'm just about to kind of more be like in a band and going out more.

But I'm really just home right now, just feeding my, my creative mind with all this stuff, all this gunk. But also totally, right now, if you've not seen the Don't Let Go and Vogue music video. I love it. And thank you guys so much for joining us in this hour year, the Lord's year, 1997. I'm glad that it's not 1997 anymore. But I feel like, I was going to say that I bet Gweth Paltrow wished it was still 1997, but maybe that's not quite the case.

She's doing, I think, much better for herself now. Although don't we all want to be young, Gwyneth Paltrow in 1997? Young, dumb and full of hope. All right, there it is. our episode on 1997, rewind. Check us out further if you'd like to support. There's so much content on Patreon. It's ridiculous. patreon.com forward slash page 7 podcast. Jackie really pumps it out. I do a weekly thing with her as well. But just go check it out. There's so much stuff on there. And Twitch.com forward slash hold naters ho.

Get it while you can. Actually, at the time of this recording, I'm a be on my P-T. Daddy. On my P-T leave. But when I come back, Monday, Tuesdays, and Fridays, and please feel free to subscribe

to my channel, even while I'm gone, as it will help me feed a child. That would be great. Yeah, what you got, MJ? I'm MJ, and I'm MJ K-L-Kat on Instagram. And I'm Jackie Zabrowski. Follow me on Instagram.

at Jack That Worm, come check out the Patreon and also check out my Twitch as well on Tuesdays and Thursday evenings over on twitch.tv.TV forward slash, oh, no, it's Jackie. I love you guys, and we will see you soon. Thank you for taking a trip down memory lane. Bye, everybody.

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