Page 7 - REEEEEEWIIIIIND 1998

Episode Date: July 29, 2021

Hold onto your JNCOs and dragon baby tees as Page 7 travels back in time to cover the pop culture of 1998!Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7PodcastKevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0 Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Stay awake, just a heat. Watch you smile while you are sleeping, while you're far away and dreaming. Very scary. I could spend my life in this sweet Zer. I could stay lost in this moment for a... Right about. Soul brother. I even get to the chorus.

The fuck's all brother. Intergalactic planetary, planetary. Godadry, planetary, intergalactic, intergalactic plant. This kiss, this kiss. But what about Armageddon? So incredible. This kiss, this. It's been.

One week said you looked at me. Oh. Oh, hey, MJ, that was pretty fly for a white guy. I want to praise you like I do. Am I drag you love. My God, there's so many great songs, you guys. Did you? Were you just, Rit, Rit, Rit, Roo.

Winded back to 1998. 1998 thrown out there fucking banger of a year. Now that I'm looking at absolutely everything. The songs, the music, unbelievable. Yes, guys, we're taking a little bit out of the old Wizard and the Bruiser page this week. And we are going to be talking about, please, Holden, introduce the idea that you've brought to us. This is a slightly different take on what Jake and I have been doing for Wizard and the Brewers. or bonus on Patreon.

Check us out on there. Patreon. I've got up for it slash Whisper. That's right. I'm promoting a different podcast Patreon right now. I know. And understand how that's annoying. And what we would do,

like, we would do a thing called the year that was. Now, we were more doing, like, what video games, especially what video games and movies came out in a certain year. And we went through all the 2000s and 90s. I think this is going to be a lot more about the pop culture news events that happened. We'll also definitely speak towards some of the movies and things. Obviously, we're not going to spend probably any time on video games, right,

or anything like that. Oh my God. Mutual Milk Hotel put out Holland, 1945 in 1998? Yes, 100%. I was not. Listening to that, yeah, yeah. We are old. It would take me many years to discover that.

Yeah, we didn't discover that until way later. Actually, this is a great place to begin, right? Before we talk about the news and the events and the things that were released in 1998, where were we all in 1998? I think for me, I was, was I a sophomore in high school, I believe, at this point? It was 98, 99. I graduated in 2001, so maybe I was a freshman, actually, in high school. I think I was just starting to find my own.

I cemented. I think this was the moment where I stopped worrying about the echelons of popularity in my school. I still had the crush on the popular girl. I wasn't completely over it. Are you over it now? Hot take. No, I've never get over Liz.

Wow, I'm still in there. I'll never be over Liz. Yeah, yeah, still in there. No, she's wonderful, and actually we are friends now. all that to say is I think I was still though, I don't know if I'm even experimenting with weed and alcohol at this point. That was a sophomore year thing. I think 1998 I'm pretty sure I was a freshman.

The more and more I think about it. But I'm about to go to that place. I'm about to just say, fuck all this noise. I just want to be in a band and smoke weed and like not care anymore about like what the popular girl thinks or what the jocks have to say about my, you know, potential sexuality. I just really just don't care anymore.

Right? This would have been a transition year for you then because I'm doing that you were the same grade as my brother. And so for me this was this, you know, the first half of the year was sixth grade and then going into seventh. So your first half of the year would have been your freshman year and then going into your sophomore year. So it's a time of transitions. It was certainly a time of transitions for me. Oh my God. Yes.

And that was my first year of middle school because it was fifth grade into sixth grade. So this is a big time of transition. Oh my God. Who would ever want to be 11 again? I know for a fact. I don't think I know any of words. It's going to be such a weird. These episodes are going to be so weird

because at least Jake and I are like the same age, but we're going to have completely different perspectives on all of these pop culture events. Yeah. Yeah, because a four-year age difference matters a lot when you're talking about 11. Those years? In terms of how you relate to pop culture.

I'm like regularly smoking cigarettes at this point. I have friends who have cars. Dude. I, yeah, Jackie and I are like just getting out of like little kid dumb into like teen, we were tweens basically. Yes. Yeah, so I was a grade older than her. And for me, this is a great year to do because sixth grade was the year that I decided that I wanted friends. And so it was the year that I grew out my bangs, got my dragon baby teas and my, my Jankos, which was the closest I could get to normalcy in terms of gender expression.

I should even though not really. And I started watching VH1's top 10 countdown. And so by, that was 1997 when that started. So I have a lot of strong associations of 1997. But as I'm looking at all this stuff, I'm realizing

a lot of it was also 1998. And so you know, there was there was just a, it was a time of when I thought I was really growing up. But in fact I was 12, I think. And this was also a time period of looking at everything, especially as someone that has been plus size my entire life,

of thinking about the fashion of 1998 as well and just remembering. I know that we've talked about this on page seven before, talking about baby teas and talking about just the unfortunate things that happened in the 90s, which I'm going to go ahead and say a lot of them, you see how I dress now, I have now adopted. But this was also the height of low-rise jeans. It was the height of those strippy, strappy little, like very tight dresses. It was like those strappy high-heeled sandals and that kind of stuff. Strapes. All everywhere.

Strapy tank tops. This was the year I think that they coined the phrase strappy tank tops, or at least that that's what I remember it. And that kind of little strippy strappy, you got to be stick thin to be able to pull it off. Yeah. No one was made for the fashion of 98. And because this, of course, just to set this in perspective,

this is the year of baby one more time. Oh, yes. And the real fashion changeover where we went, this is a great year to pick because I do think this is the year we ushered out of the grunge alt-era and into the big old bubbly-bubblest. Oh, my God, remember all the tiny purses. I forgot about micro bags, the really, really small ones,

and we all had them right under, and they would like sit right in your arm, pit and nothing fit in them. Everything was tiny. It was tiny purses. It was tiny tanks. The tanks were only supposed to go. If they made it to the top of your jeans,

that was like, that was it. Tidea. Your jeans were supposed to be real low. And it's so messed up because I was, yeah, this is, it was real, yeah, the beginning of adolescence for me. And I was skinny and small, but I totally did not have any body confidence.

I realize in retrospect a lot of that might have been about gender. But for me at the time, it was about being, I thought I was a girl and I thought you could not possibly ever be skinny enough. Right. And so I remember getting like my first pair of like flared pants and my first pair of like my first like strappy tank top, but still feeling like self conscious about my body because it was a time when there was not that everything's good now. But there was zero representation of anyone who was. was bigger than Britney Spears, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, not at all. And then just thinking of, oh my God, and the skinny member to chain belts.

Oh, yeah. You guys are talking so much fashion. For me, fashion was what the school made us wear, which was khaki pants and collared shirts. And that's literally like my entire wardrobe until I got to like college. But this is the thing. I begged for a uniform. I wish, I did wish that I was at that age group that I wanted an, and, so that I wasn't brutalized at school every day for what I wore.

I was like, I'd rather wear a fucking uniform, and then I never have to think about it. And then we can all collectively hate the uniforms. Oh, man, I'm getting thrown back right. Sorry, I didn't need to go down the fashion thing. So here's a question for you guys. I'm going to say two words right now, and you react to them however they worked in the context of your world

because they were a huge part of my world, even though I definitely saw them as ridiculous then and still do now. Jinko jeans. Yeah, man. I wanted to go so badly. I actually didn't have Braden. I never understood that. I never understood it.

It was like, yeah, why not? That is quintessential for a fat guy girl. Get me some fucking Jankos. Yeah. Jinko jeans for any, I feel like we don't necessarily need to explain this, but just if you've never heard of this, look up a picture of Jinko jeans. Even if you have heard of it, you probably need to refresh your memory because every time I hear the phrase Gico G's,

I have to immediately look up pictures of them because they were such a weird time and fashion. But yes, the most massively mammoth, like made you look like a cartoon character. They were like hugely wide at the bottom. They were just bigger. They swallowed you into them. Yeah, they were so huge and heavy. And like I remember all the like kids that there was essentially one table that was like my table, but they were just a little bit more like into the kind of Jinko.

Hackysack. Hackysack people. Bad kid kind of thing. Sort of hacky sack people. They started a band as well. They played, I believe they were called Slarge the Done. And that, of course,

was STD was the, you know, I don't know, that was so weird that I remember that. Stlar? Okay, so check this out. Apparently they were at a warped tour and they managed to talk to the lead singer of Head P.E. If you remember that fucking ridiculous new metal band.

And they asked them, We want to start a band, what should we call it? And the guy apparently told them Slarge the Don. We weren't that much better. We were called Lemon of Troy, named after our favorite episode of The Simpsons, just to give you another context of where we are. The Lemon Tree one where they still, the Shelbyville steals the Lemon Tree. No, the other guys are cooler.

They had STD in their name, and that is everybody knows, pretty cool. So funny. But, yeah, they all wore the Jinkos, and they were kind of like the worse. Like, we were the bad kids. They were like the worst kids, essentially. They were just slightly more unfurred. older than we were, but we were all definitely trying to break the rules as much as possible. I was definitely like, 16, I like to think back and say, I mean, I don't like to, but I will

be honest and say I was definitely like full on addicted to cigarettes by this age in my life. Like, I definitely, obviously I wasn't smoking like at home or anything, but definitely going to the coffee shop to smoke cigarettes or going to my buddy Pat's place. I may be fucking with Adderall at this point as well for a brief stint, but again, we're just in very different places, guys. different places. I say that I wore Jencos, but really I never had branded Jencos. I just wore very baggy jeans. And I, my, and it was a, I was not the only one, but the style I think, as I remember, was very baggy jeans and very tight shirts. It was like you had to be tight on

top. And then you could either have like the low rise, very flare pants or just baggy all over on bottom. And also big like vans or airwalks, like big puffy skaters. You shoes. Oh, yeah, big skater shoes. I had the big skater shoes. And I just remember, honestly, I haven't thought about this memory in a minute as I was sitting here looking at Jinko jeans while you guys were speaking. And my mom, Angel Linda is, she took jeans that did fit me.

And I remember because I was beside myself because I couldn't fit into any of the Jinkos. And she cut them in half because my mom is a seamstress. She cut them in like down the side and added, which a lot of the jinkos did. have fun, crazy fabric on the sides to make them really big and really wide. Tuxedo stripes, yeah. Yeah, so she inserted them and made me essentially jinko pants, and I wore them to school. And I think that as I'm saying this, and understand why, I blocked this out. And everybody knew that my mom took regular jeans and turned them into jinkos.

And they all brutalized me because of it. And I was just like, I came home, my mom was just like, what's wrong? I was like, never make me anything again! Never make me anything again! Oh, my God. So funny how I go back and forth from feeling bad for Jackie and then feeling bad for Linda. Yeah, I feel bad for both of them. Your mom was trying so hard.

It's trying so hard. I've even like read to the touch just thinking about this because I was... Because at the time... These are the blunder years. I'd rather be dead. At the time I wanted to be dead. I really would have rather have been dead. That's so funny.

Well, also I want to throw it out there for me. And this was kind of true just for several of these years in my life from middle school into now. But especially right now when we can't even, we're not even 18. Like, there's just not a ton to do. Blockbuster is fucking king. Oh, yeah. Blockbuster is my savior. I am going there regularly.

I think my idea of a perfect Saturday was to go to Blockbuster. We rent three movies I'd never seen before that were going to, like, blow my fucking mind. spend the rest and then hit the fresh market on the way home, get a bunch of fucking sour patch kids, like a giant bag of sour patch kids, and then go home and just like drink Coca-Cola and eat sour patch kids and watch those fucking food. That hurts my teeth just as you're saying.

I know. I know. And to the point where then they call you down for dinner and you're like, oh, but now my mouth's all scratched. You're like try to eat, but like you're sick to your stomach and like your mouth hurts to just chew

because you've been sucking on fucking shards. It's why I can't buy skittles to this day. I cannot have skittles in the house. I will eat every single skittal. And I don't care. And my mouth is all caught up. And I'm like, I guess.

It's so cut up. Why did we enjoy that? We used to cut our stupid mouths up all the time. We were allowed to walk to the okie dokey, which was the corner store. I feel like we're literally talking about completely different eras right now. That sounds like you are from the old west. Go on the okey dokey. Small town.

I think we got like. two bucks a day and we were allowed to walk, John and I were allowed to walk once a day to the okay dokey and we could get, you know, spend one dollar. It's like the summer, I guess. Is this like a summer thing? Yeah, like, but it was like a, yeah, I think this must have been a summer thing. But maybe I think we did it after school too. We were allowed to get like one drink at one disgusting soda or something and then one candy. And yeah, it was like starboard like a whole, imagine every day eating like a whole thing of starbursts and like a whole Dr. Pepper.

And I just used to do that all the time. All the time. It's incredible. All the time. And now my teeth are just thinking about it. And, but you know what? For many reasons, I think I'm happy that it's not 1998 anymore. And for many reasons, I'm kind of sad that it's not.

Yeah. Because, you know, there's times like, I mean, did you guys know that Oprah got sued by the U.S. beef industry in 1998? What? I don't remember that being. I thought you were going to lead with way bigger. Nope, I want to talk about Oprah. But yeah, yeah, let's talk about Oprah.

Sorry, I just saw this and I was like, what the hell are you talking about? Cattle Farbers in Texas sued the talk show host after she made some remarks about the United States beef industry during a 1996 episode of the Oprah Winfrey show. Apparently, beef sales slowed down and she was responsible. Thanks to free speech, she was never charged and she later told reporters she was still off hamburgers. I'm going to guess she's back on. I say this as the hot dog ambassador I'm allowed to see these say these things So

That is so funny I don't remember that story I think for me culturally Do we have more to say about Oprah Getting sued by the media? No I just remember That it was a very meaty time You have to remember

It was a meaty time I went vegan in Dubuque Iowa in 2003 And everyone was like You're the craziest person I've ever met in my life You can't win friends with salad You can't win friends with salad In the late 90s, meat was the only choice. And so, good on Oprah.

Meet, it's for dinner. Remember, even the whole, all that bullshit? What I will say, I think there's a couple of things here that are massively, this is a really good sea change year, cultural sea change year, especially for the youth. I think, I would say, number one, actually, I would actually believe, I believe also come out this year, which is the introduction of auto tune. We can talk about that in a second. the number one game changer, a little show on a little known network called MTV, premiered,

TRL. Total request live in 1990. It premiered at 1990. But actually, it's early, but it's early because look, also baby one more time. This is the first, I mean, honestly, Britney Spears baby one more time, that really was the first big statement of where pop music was going. I think that started it. And so it makes a lot of sense the TRL would also start in 1990.

Yes, it was premiered. Carson Daly came in. I don't, actually, we should do a pop history on TRL because it really was MTV changing changed the youth culture. Because MTV was so tied to the youth culture. And before it was this cool, gritty alternative Beavis and Butthead, you know, late night music videos. They only played music videos. And then all of a sudden, Brittany Spears comes out with Baby one more time. Share comes out with the first case for AutoTune. And TRL pops out.

And essentially is like, hey, we are no longer catering to the, like, 20-year-old dude bro that you saw in the movie singles, you know, the dude with the Pearl Jam Post on their wall. We're not catering that guy anymore. We're catering to the tweener, like, girl. And completely changed the landscape of music, of, and it was the perfect slash worst timing depending on where you were with music back then. I think I've come around to this stuff. But to me, this was like Armageddon. selling out. A lot of talk about selling out during this time. Yes. And a lot of what the boy bands are just going to be around the corner. And what was that

like for y'all? Because for me it was kind of like the end. And I wonder if for you guys it was kind of like the beginning in certain ways. Very much the beginning for me. And for me personally, because I had been such a, I had been such a loner that I had no relationship to pop culture. And so I just thought it kind of began in 1997, 1998, because that's, when I tuned into it, but it's fascinating to actually realize that this, you know, that there, that there was, that, that, that, that, Britney, Titanic, uh, you know, TRL. Like, yeah, those were iconic things for me because of the age I was, but also they were like cultural shifts, right? Yeah. Yes. Oh, my God.

On my buzzfeed, well, we'll get to Abercrombie and Fitch in a little bit. We'll talk about fashion, but, uh, that was also on my list. I'm immediately having, like, nightmare fly. I hate Abercrombie. I used to go there to scream about the prices. I used to because I was like a mall, every, we were all mall rats

for a sort of point in time, right? So I used to just go there and make fun of how much the clothes cost. Going back to this though, MJ, were you like listening to me? This is such a funny question, but it's real,

I feel like, because not all of us, depends on the kind of kid you were. Were you listening to music at this time? At this time, yes. Before I was only listening to like George Gershwin and other, you know,

things like that. But, but in 1990s, maybe the reason I watched it. What are you into? Do you like it's secret? Backstreet Boys. I approve of Gershwin.

A little thing I like to call Gershwin. Like, I was, I was struggling. But, but yeah, this was when I, but yeah,

I mean, it's, it's, this was right when Backstreet Boys in sync, matchbox 20, you know, the Titanic soundtrack.

Like, I was only listening to, like literally what was in, what was on TRL, what was in the VH1 top 10 countdown, like what was popular. And I had been such a hater of pop culture before because I thought everything that I hated everyone else really because I was so not confident. And so I thought anything that everyone else like must be stupid. Oh yeah.

And so I hated pop culture before like this year. And then this, you know, 1997, 1998, I got into it. And I'm trying to remember like what I, I mean, I thought that like Titanic was like the best movie ever made. I thought that that soundtrack was like the most moving music I had ever heard. Again, I am like Titanic is like my nightmare. It's just like every, no one can stop talking about it. I saw in the theater. I did kind of enjoy it even despite myself. And then it was just everything anyone can talk about. And by the way, I'm definitely like probably like a girl hating a depressive ninth grader a little bit. At this point. Yeah. This is the perspective a little bit.

Sad boy. No one will kiss me. No one will be near me. No one will. So, the things that you guys like, I hate. Not you guys specifically, but like the ladies that were, so, oh, you like Titanic? You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Fuck Britney Spears. Yeah, yeah. Definitely that is, in hindsight, my, I'm true blue nice guy at this point in my life, right?

Self-proclaimed, nice guy in my life right now and not really, not going to realize that, you know, oh, the jerks, assholes always get the, like, the beautiful, popular girls. It's like, no, the guys with confidence got them. you know, that literally just show any sign of confidence and trust in yourself. That said, Jackie's same question to you. What were you listening to music at this point? And like, what was the landscape for you with music at least? It's crazy because I just pulled up this list of Billboard's best songs of 1998.

Hell yeah. And looking through it, you talk about transitional time period because you're right. There was a Titanic soundtrack and I loved the Titanic soundtrack. but this was also the beginning of my transition time of understanding that the music that you listen to gives people bullets for which to hurt you and I am like having all this realization as I'm like 1998 was rough year

get jiggy with it nah nah nah nah nah nah because you gotta get jiggy with it and then like I remember forcing myself to listen to backstreet boys forcing myself forcing myself to listen to Britney stories like this was the year because I was like, I was listening to Barry Manilow. I was listening to Celine Dion. I was listening to like, I really liked the Shania Twain album when it came out. I was into music that, I'm going to say it, children in my age were not.

And I thought that it was like, but then I'm like, my mom gave me like the belief of like, but you're unique and you're different and that's okay. You should own and then you go to middle school. And then you flip out of like, you said that you're. was good that I was different. You said that I was unique. And what you meant to say is that I I'm lame and I have to pretend to like other things so that I can make friends. Yes. This was a big piece of it for me too. Like I sincerely, truly loved the Titanic soundtrack. But I, but I, I feel like I'm a combination of both of you because I also, I remember being like Britney Spears is

dumb and only dumb girls like that. Like I had the hater still in me. Or just like pop is so, like, it's just bullshit. It's like nothing. Right. Like, only, real, I was, yeah, I still, like, had, identified with, like, subculture and counterculture, but I also wanted to be, I wanted to fit in, and I wanted people to like me. And so I was like, I have to learn this language of, in sync.

I have to be, like, I have to be conversational in this stuff. Yeah. This is also the really funny time, though, where, like, I'm watching, you know, I'm obsessed with, like, Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction. I'm obsessed with, like, cinema, like, 2001 of Space Odyssey, Stanley Kubrick, all this kind of stuff. I want to watch all that shit. I want to watch Apocalypse. No, I want to watch, you know, the Godfather trilogy, just all the, whatever great kind of thing.

And also, like, the drug movies that were coming out, too, like, go and stuff. I don't know if that's, like, that's around the corner. Yeah, but this is also way, this is the year half-baked came out. Yeah. Talk about, like, basketball. Basketball. Watching these movies that I was like, oh, and then realizing, I think this was also the real, like, the beginning of the realization of, like, I got to get into drugs. That's how I be friends. And unfortunately, that is how I started making friends.

That's exactly what I did as well. I mean, we just, I mean, we were already friends, but we just started being like, let's just check out. You're a loving game out. Yes. That was a game changer for, well, I'll tell that story again as well. But all this, all I was just going with this with music was definitely like, I was like an act kind of coming out of the grunge face still really into Primus, Nirvana,

Green. I'm like Green Day was like my number one, so I'm probably kind of losing a little bit of energy for them a little bit. but in terms of popular music, I'll run down a couple things that I was truly in love with at this time and still thing kind of holds up.

Miseducation of Lauren Hill, I had that on repeat. I loved that album. I loved that album so much. Holds the fuck up too. It's a great, it is a great album. Definitely.

Intergalactic defined that year in a lot of ways for me with Beastie Boys. I loved the music video. Kind of introduced me to like Japanese like Kaiju even in a lot of ways and Hello Nasty really blew the doors off of the Beastie Boys for me

and I came to like super love them. There was one more. I definitely was not in a pretty fly for a week. Oh, Fat Boy Slim. I definitely felt really cool. Listen to Fat Boy Slim. And, you know, and like chemical brothers or whatever and all that kind of stuff and getting into like the dabbling in the electronica thing.

These were all things that were like on rotation. And a lot of this, by the way, right now, and this is going to be different for y'all, a lot of these memories I'm connecting to, I wasn't necessarily driving this time, but I had friends who were driving. So a lot of these song memories are in cars with friends. screaming miseducation of Lauren Hill

at the top of our lungs. Also, Rob Zombie struck out with a, not struck out, whatever, struck in with Dragula, hit a homer with Dragula, super into that as well coming up, but I was already like a big white zombie fan. So there were actually like some interesting pop,

like bigger, popular things happening in this landscape that I felt really alienated from. And I mean, I didn't hear you say Gougu Dolls dizzy up the girl yet, but Gougu Dolls, Dizzy up the girl fucking dropped in 1990. Savage Garden matchbox. Truly madly deeply, man.

I was not into any of that. I was so against that. It was school dance music. Like to me, all of this is school dance music. And like truly madly deeply was like slow dance, school dance music. And looking at this at the list, I have to give a shout out. I've talked about it a million times on the show before. But the song too close was my truly number one sexual way.

the music video for Too Close. Is that the invented real close? Too close. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You make it hard for me. And that was the number one, by the way. That was the number one Billboard single of 1998,

according to this list. Because it was so horny. It was so sexy. I have to look this up. I don't even remember this one. When you hear it, it'll come back to you. Oh, it comes back. Oh, baby.

It all comes back. And I was obsessed. This is, man, Goo Goo Dolls, I was absolutely obsessed with. And that was one of the ones for me that I didn't listen to for other people. That was, I truly was in love with Johnny Regnick. And I think, I got to say, he must have been pretty old, right, in 1998? I think so. Now thinking back, I'm like, he's, I mean, I know that he looks old now, but.

Oh, my God, I forgot about the song. Are you Jimmy Ray? Do you guys remember that song? Are you Jimmy Ray? Are you Steve Ray? God. Who was you? Who was to know? Who was in there? I had not thought about that since the year

1998, but as soon as I saw it, it came back into my brain. Thank you, Brain, for storing that. Wow. So you mentioned Fear and Loathing. I do. I feel like I've told this story before. Let me just very quickly recap it. You're right.

This is the year I definitely was first experimenting with weed, for sure. Like 100%, because half bait came out, salt in the theater, and, like, got it. Like, I was a part of the club. I kind of distinctly remember that. And I think we had to sneak into it too or whatever. But still, I was like, I know these jokes because I'm a weed man too now. The other thing was Fear and Loving Las Vegas.

I saw the trailer for it. And as I mentioned before, I was really on the lookout for like interesting different movies that I'd never seen anything like them before. So that trailer really stuck out. I had no idea what it was about. I had no idea who Hunter Thompson was. I would come to fall in love with the work of Hunter Thompson because of this instance. So we went to Borders, books and music. I don't know if you guys remember Borders.

Oh, do I remember borders. I had great coffee shakes. I went all the time. Yes, and they did those simple syrupy flavor drinks that I loved as well. Those were big at the time. Yeah, right? Italian soda.

I went with my mom, took me. Again, couldn't drive it this time. My mom takes me to borders so I can try to find this book. And the funny thing with Hunter Thompson is like, it's kind of weird to place him. Like, do you put him in fiction? Do you put him in nonfiction? Like, it's, you know what I mean?

I've had this issue before even just finding where he is in the book section or in the bookstore. And so eventually my mom was like, let's just ask because I couldn't find it. And so we asked this borders employee, this like kid, he leads us over to this one bookshelf that like they made special for to promote the movie. And it had like different books by Hunter Thompson, especially Fear and Loathing with that Johnny Depp like warped with the cigarette out of his mouth and the cigarette holder. And I picked up the book and I turned around and the description on the back of the book was

literally just the contents of the suitcase. Just we had the, you know what I mean? The salt shaker of cocaine and the ether. and the acid and the, I just read, I just, like, read that, looked up, my mom and this guy were just standing behind me. I just looked up, I was like, I'll take it. And literally read that book. I read that book and literally, like, the fastest I've ever read a book.

It was like, I read it in like a day or two. I was obsessed. And it really completely blew the doors off for me, A, drug culture, B, like, completely just not living how Charlotte wants me to live and how, you know what I mean, and how private school and my parents and everybody wants me to live. and it actually had a lot to do, I think, with me striking out of my own and really living a more unique and interesting life. But also, again, just totally opening the doors in my life at this time on just drug culture, period.

And mind expansion, all of that is kind of happening starting this year, which is pretty exciting. Man, these years are such formative years of where we were and how different the experiences were of one year. It's so, until you actually like sit and think about it, where it's like, that's crazy of like me crying about my jinkos the same year that like, even though we've worked together for so long of how different. Like I was watching, I was sitting there watching the Natalie and Brugley and Brugley had torn music video over and over again, not understanding quite yet why I needed to watch it over and over and over again.

And it was because I was, oh man, slip it and slide it off my seat. And I didn't understand. Like, it was like that same year of, especially like in a 1998, of being nervous about how I felt and thinking that that was something I needed to hide and be ashamed of because, oh, man, still 1998 was not a good year to be like, I think now I know that I also like women as well, especially my God, Natalie and Bruglia in that fucking music video. I'm glad you brought up sexuality in 1998, because I have two big stories for this year that I think to find America's viewpoint on sexuality to accompany baby one more time, right?

Because we've talked to ad nauseum about it on the Britney Spears episode, but baby one more time came out, sexualized the fuck out of a high school girl for adults. And adults are openly talking about how, like, horny they are for this fucking high school girl music video, right? I mean, everyone's just like, it's a new thing. High school girl, sexy school girl, right? And then on top of that, two stories I want to talk about each of these together an individual. Hell yeah. Viagra completely changes the landscape of late-night comedy jokes. Viagra comes out.

Oh, my God. Is that the Bob Dole year as well? All I will ever remember is Bob Dole. Story number two, Monica Lewinsky. Also 1998. Also 98. It's a weird, like, horny old man year. Baby one more time.

Viagra. Monica Lewinsky. and Bill Clinton. And sorry, not to add to this, sex in the city. Yeah. And you're like, this is like, totally off my radar at the time, of course. Yeah, this is a big year when it comes to sexuality,

I mean, at least breaching, it becoming a topic of conversation as opposed to just something that late night people would make jokes about. This is something that it became part of the actual, like, society's atmosphere of like, well, I guess we are going to start talking about sexuality. and not pretending like it's bad. And it was also...

Old men need boners too. Yeah, yeah. But it was also the shutting down of it because, you know, we had this assured farce that was the impeachment trials for Bill Clinton. Everyone knew... Absolutely puritanical. Bullshit.

Puretical times. But also it was a year after Ellen came out, the Allen episode where she kissed a woman in the Time Magazine cover where she said, yep, I'm gay, was also 1997. But to your point, Jackie, about liking Natalie Brulia, It's like, this was, I mean, I mean, I remember the Ellen thing very, very, very, very clearly.

And it was just like that was, you know, obviously fuck Ellen right now. But like that it, imagine living in a time when there was just one gay woman. Like, you know, like imagine that there was just what, like a year ago, one famous woman had said I'm gay. And the whole country was like, bo. And then, yeah, a year later, everyone's talking. talking about the president getting a beach, you know. To add to that, though, I actually was a fan of the show Ellen, and I had to stop watching after she came out,

and not because I was homophobic, but because the writers had to find a way to make every episode about being, like, there's a gay hat shop. We have to, you know, it was like, well, if you're going to go to the gym, you have to go to the gay gym. Like every fucking episode was like,

how do we like turn this into about Ellen being a lesbian as opposed to Ellen just being able to exist as a lesbian and continue doing the show as it already was, right? And I literally... Yeah, I think we had not yet... We had not yet gotten the idea of normalizing, you know? I remember having to stop watching. Yeah, it was so...

It was so the opposite of normalizing. It was so fetishizing of it. It was just like, well, if you gotta go to the grocery store, you have to... Every episode was like, you have to go to the gay grocery store. And then they'd go to the gay grocery store. I was just like, what is that? This is so bad.

Like, what is going on? The whole... It was so weird how, like, her coming out kind of made the show jump the shark in that hilarious way, whereas now, like, all we want to see are, you know, like, I mean, but it took that to get to Schitt's Creek.

Right. Where gay people could just be in a show and, like, it's not just constantly revolving around the craziness that is them being gay, you know what I mean? And I think that that is a beautiful journey we've gone on. What are you looking at and discussed that Furbys were the big toy of 1990s?

No, I was looking into George Michael's arrest over the lewd act. There's so many weird. There's so many, that's why it was like, this is, and it's just like, there was so, what, like a damnation of the idea of sexuality, just as a whole, regardless of how you identified. And this was like, of course, it's always been an issue, but this is like the start. And I also got to think, this is around the time of, like,

the internet starting to become in people's homes that, like, affordable for the everyday person to start to afford. And then you can get horny on it immediately. completely. But also then, like, I'm going down, like, all of these, like, worm times in my own brain as I'm thinking about this, of, like, of thinking of all of the rom-coms that came out this year. There's, like, Hope floats. There's all these different, like, can't hardly weigh.

There's these big rom-coms. And thinking of a time period when, like, we all, like, I don't know about you, but it's, like, I felt like I had to go see Hope floats when it was in the, because I was, because I am a woman, and I had to see it. You know, I was, like, in that time period, you had to go see it because that was the rom-com that was out. And now, there's just so much content for us to take in that there's not this same, at least it does, at least I don't know, I'm not young. But it seems that it's not the same, like, putting on of a person of like, oh, you haven't seen this, you may as well be dead, you know? Yeah.

Is there so much? There was fewer, there was, like, more of a, like, monoculture because, and I think that that also, like, gave. power to subcultures because it was like, because there wasn't the internet really until around this time, it was like, oh, you like, you like,

you, you, you like, you know, and then, so then if you listened to, you know, Green Day,

you felt very different and like, very, like, so I, and again, this was also youth. I don't know what it would have been like to be somebody in your 20s at this time.

Right. Because you would have had, you would have been more developed. Very different. There was just powerful monoculture of like, these are the rom-com. people watch, these are the movies, and if you like anything outside of that, then you're so weird. And when you're young, especially in the age we were, you're always seeking meaning and

identity. And so you're like, oh, I get my identity from the fact that I don't want to see hope floats in the theater. Right, but then there's the movies like... Yeah, you're either for it against it. Yeah. Then there's a movie like Slums of Beverly Hills, which also came out in 1998. And for me, that was another one of those movies that I liked to watch when I was alone. And I thought, that it was shameful for me to like slums of Beverly Hills because it is, which I haven't seen that in a minute, but I talk about another, I mean, Natasha Leone has been in my spank bank from the beginning of time. And that was another one of those movies in slums of Beverly Hills that

people are like, that's a weird, that's like a weird movie. And you watch it again, and you're like, it's just a comedy. It's just like a dark comedy. I said Blockbuster, but also at this time, especially in the age that I'm at where I can, I'm, like, allowed to, like, leave the house kind of whenever, you know, within the bounds of, like, curfew and stuff. I mean, I am going to the movie theater constantly. And definitely big standouts for me.

This was the year that I saw. I think there was a bit of a, even this was a bit of a sea change maker. Rushmore, I saw in the movie movie. I had no idea what it was. I had no idea what it was. It's all with my buddy Ben and his dad, not kiss old, different Ben.

And we all walked out of the theater was like, wow, I literally just have my like, absolute mind blown by this absolutely different type of thing I've never seen before. Yeah. Now is really what I was looking for in general at this time in my life was like I want, I just need anything that's different. I'm just so sick of the status quo, especially I'm seeing it so much in music now. Like every girl dresses the same at my high school. Every boy dresses the same in my high school. Like, I'm so tired of that. I just want to get out of Charlotte. I want to like have new things. Another funny thing that happened this year,

just in terms of that summer blockbuster that, like, talk about a monoculture that, like, you just were unable to escape from. And that would be the fucking absolute flop that was the 1998 Godzilla that we, that America made just in the face of Japan. By the way, I don't know if y'all know this.

We did a multi-partner on Godzilla. I mean, Godzilla is like a simple, essentially a metaphor for the nuclear attacks that we orchestrated on Japan in World War II. He's essentially a nuclear radiation monster that was created by us. And then for us to take what they created,

to cope with what we did to them, and then make 1998's Godzilla, which is such a slap in the fucking face. Like nothing about the design of the monster says Godzilla. The movie is terrible. No, of course, but that soundtrack, bro, when was the last they'd had the Brains-to-Gonzola remix of the Green Day's?

song, I loved that soundtrack. It had a rage, it had like the rage against the Sheed song on it. There was a Benfold's five song on it for some reason. I was obsessed with that soundtrack. But I was like very anti-Armageddon, but I definitely, I'll tell you one thing that was like a big movie of the summer that everybody fucking loved.

That is so problematic too, in hindsight. There's something about Mary. I was going to say, I can't believe we're not talking about there's something about Mary yet. Yep. It is such, that was such a big deal. that was like just huge for us. I'm kind of sad. I think maybe it's next year or the year after

where we start getting the horny teen sex comedy every single summer with American Pie and everything that that spawned and like the scary movie movies and all that kind of stuff. Like I think we're not quite there yet, but what we did have this year in terms of having like weird horniness in it, a big dumb comedy that like everybody again had to like essentially. Because I remember like not loving it as much as maybe Tommy Boy or Dumb and Dumber,

but still having to. be like this is the best thing ever and quoting it and stuff. You know what I mean? Just as a weird posturing, right? Because you would feel weird. I don't even know if I completely, I guess I understood the cum hair thing.

But we're still talking. I mean, this is a little new, right? So you guys probably didn't even see it in the theater. I wasn't allowed to see it, I don't think. I remember because Henry went to go see it in theater and I remember being like, I want to go. And he's like, you wouldn't even get it.

And the thing is I probably wouldn't have, but I definitely would have pretended that I understood what was happening for Yeah, yeah. And it's not like Henry knew. Oh, also talking about just throwing the dumb sex category. This is the year Monica and Chandler banged it out in the season finale of Friends. There you go. Now that I did watch while it was on and it was my everything because I, and I know that I've talked some shit on page 7 about Friends, but at the time period, that show gave me hope that you could go from being friends into being Fuck Buddy.

and it was from a young age, as I always had friends that I fell in love with, I was like, there is hope, maybe someday. And then you realize, like, you can have friends with benefits fairly easily if you could just talk about it, but you won't learn for many, many, many years. Jackie, how did you feel about the extreme fat phobia? How did you feel at the time about the extreme fat phobia of friends and Monica's character I remember being really upset because she looked a lot like me in the flashbacks as a long haired brunette fat woman.

But I also weirdly enough that I was like, she lost the weight and she looks really pretty. So that actually was good for me to see because I was like, I can be pretty someday too. Because I was going to ask y'all, I mean, I'm looking at this BuzzFeed list. And to me, the feminine ideal for girls at this point is Britney Spears and Jennifer Love Hewitt. And in a world in which that is the case for a young Jackie and a young MJ, like what even is that?

Eating disorders. Eating disorders. Oh, baby eating disorders. Because that was the thing. Can't Hardly Wait came out this year. And also then Barry Manilow was in Can't Hardly Wait, like the idea of Barry Manlo. And I was like, I felt so seen.

And I was like, oh my God, again. It's like someday someone will like me for liking the music that I like, but not today. But yeah, you watch those movies and you're just like, you can't compete with that. I want to rewatch Can't Hardly Wait because I, so this is why I'm at, by the way, with movies. Really? Completely. I think this, right? And that's what I've heard.

There's, of course, parts that are dated that, you know, would be better without. You know what? If it is a movie, a comedy that came out in 1998 and it doesn't have one or two problematic things in it, I'm like, what even is this? Unless it was Titanic. To be quite honest, yeah. Like, what even how, what is this movie, right?

This is, am I, I'm watching a bug's life. I bet even a bug's life has something in it. There's got to be something in it. But, oh, fuck, what was I going to say? Yeah, this is a good insight into my, like, headspace at this time. I hated Can't Hardly Wait, because the nerd guy got the girl at the end.

And I was like, that's unrealistic. And I only liked movies with unhappy endings, especially romantic comedies. And they were hard to find. It was hard to come by. I hated movies with happy endings because I was like, that's not real life. The guy doesn't get the girl.

That's exactly where I was at in this, the year of our Lord, 1998. Yeah, it was tough because there was a lot of, what year was never been kissed? Was that 1999 also? I think maybe 99. 99. There was a lot of rom-coms had like redemption arcs.

Like you can be an ugly girl and then still like you could get pretty enough and then a guy will like you. Obviously the one she's all that. She's all that. Yeah. Saw it in the theater. Yeah. So like that there, so I identified with it's so it's all, it is very weird to think about because I identified with the idea that you could be like an ugly girl and then a guy. would like you, but also, and I knew I was supposed to, like, look, I knew I was supposed to want to look as skinny as Jennifer Love You with, like, that's the biggest kind of memory.

But for me, also, I was like, I didn't really identify with any of the female protagonists of these films. I did, when I watched friends, I didn't identify with any of the women. I wanted to be Chandler. And so there's like all these things like looking back where I'm like, huh, I wonder what was going on in my mind, not knowing, because I didn't know that you could. be like a, you know, a person who was a girl who identified with guys all the time. I just thought that was just like a weird pathology of mine. And so I was like, okay, well, I guess I have to like, like, I guess I identify with Drew Barrymore and never been kissed because she's like. Retending to be.

Yeah. Yeah. Like an outsider, you know. So there was these stories of like you can be an outsider and then get redeemed. But again, it was only in the like, Monica, you know, was fat and now she's skinny. But now she's skinny so she can get it. Yeah. Oh, yeah, no, a lot of that, a lot of fat phobia.

Insane. So much fat phobia. And just like you had to be like a, the, every, every girl in any of those movies who got the guy, like, did so because she adhered to like the single type of way that you were supposed to look. And I don't remember enough about, I can't hardly wait to know, to remember what happened to the guy. But there was also, right, the, like, there was.

ETHEN Embrya. Yum, yum, yum. from what? Can hardly wait or what? Can hardly wait. What was it that the guy, because I feel like the other, the character arc for guys for like guy protagonists. He was the good one. He was just nerdy guy.

If you're a sweet guy and you're a pushover in these movies, you somehow magically got the girl. And honestly, I still kind of stand by the fact that like that guy doesn't get the girl in 1998 in any American high school. If it's the popular girl or whatever, because he's a pushover. Also, he's really hot. So it's like at the end of the day,

that's what always upset me. It's like, okay, yeah, he's nerdy, but he's also really hot. In the same, like, in Can't Hardly Wait, which I mean, maybe we should just do a whole pop history because it was like my mecca. Because Lauren Ambrose. It's great, Seth Green's big kind of debut in a lot of ways.

Like, it's got a lot going on. There's so many people in it. Lauren Ambrose is so hot. And Lauren Ambrose and Seth Green have the whole thing of like, they used to be friends. Seth Green got weird in high school. she's like, dude, we used to be like the best friends. They get trapped in a bathroom.

And then it's about them, like, another one of those things of like, but we're still the same even though like, yeah, I dressed like very weird now. And then they hook up anyway. And again, it was like this thought put inside of you of like, if you could just, I mean, I think you can tell I've always been this horny. And that in this time period I'm like, but then how do I get someone to kiss me? Yes. Yes.

Right. Yes. Same. Were you all fucking with Dawson's Creek at all that's premiered this year? Never did. Somehow no. I don't know how. No, I never did.

Yeah, not into that whole scene. Because that was very much, and I guess this connects to, there was like that Dawson's Creek, like, all those boy bands. And definitely Abercrombie and Fitch was just this virus in my culture. Like, everybody had to wear Abercrombie. Like, because, again, I went to a private school. Like, people get me, like, shit for that or whatever. or I give myself shit for that. It's very privileged to be able to go to private school.

But bro, it fucking sucked in a lot of ways. And definitely in the way we're like, I mean, I graduated with 90 people. I mean, there was essentially like one identity and you were either going with that Abercrombie, Dawson's Creek, fucking lame ass flow. Or you were not. And you were not a part of it.

And it was like, but it wasn't necessarily fun to not be a part of it either. I hated Abercrombie and Fitch. I will always hate Abercrombie and Fitch. I like left my ass off when they showed that picture of the actual dude who like owns it, sitting on the bleachers because he just looks disgusting and terrible.

And like I just made me laugh so hard. I never felt like the clothes were worth it. Or yeah, it was just so, but there was such a part of the culture. I mean, when do we get the most eye-roly, maybe pop song, I think ever written. I like us who wear a poppy bitch. I think it was that alpha.

I fucking hate that song. And that song represented and watching the popular girls like lip sync to that song at the school dance was like the antithet was just everything I reviled during that time period of my life and it's laughable now it's very funny to think back on and be like

fuck this get me out and I'm glad that it happened though because then I left Charlotte and like I might not have if that culture wasn't so obnoxiously in this specific vein you know what I mean? All of us for one reason or another at this time

time knew that we could not fit in to the monoculture, right? Like, like, we all already knew that. And at the time, there really were so few ways to be a boy or ways to be a girl. Like, they're really, and so I think, and again, going back to the, like, why I think that, like, fear and loathing was such a great discovery for, like, a kid like you. But there was just so, it just felt like there were so few options. And I wonder if it feels differently now, you know. Yeah, it just felt like there was such, it's the monoculture, it's totally the monoculture thing. I mean, they have every option under the sun now. You can be a fucking brony. You can be, you know what I mean? You can just go into so many wild directions. And there are ways to fit in and find a community. And, you know,

if there is one thing that came out of 1998, that was the umbrella that really brought us all together, it was because the hamster Dada Dada Dada Doo do do Dada dee do Dada dee Dany dee Dany Dany

Dany Dany Dany do you Manu Because the Hamster dance came out in 1998

Yeah I remember The hamster dance And I I love Hamster dance And it is one of those

things That yes I was so filled with so much hate In this year But man

I would just put on I would Go to the website And just like laugh And laugh

and laugh. And that was perfect for an 11-year-old in 1998. Holden, did you know about the hamster dance in 1998? I'm not sure that I did. I mean, are you talking about the website? Because I was obsessed with that more so in college, I think. Oh, okay. It was just a website.

I didn't get to till college, but I loved that. It's so funny how, like, paper thin it was, but how much of a part of our lives it was, which I guess is a metaphor for this year entirely. shallow, just absolutely shallow one-dimensional life. But at least that was a fun example of being incredibly one-dimensional, it's simple. It was just the perfect weird. I think it really ushered in this whole era of, like, excitement around how weird the

internet could be for us and how, like, strange. And, I mean, I don't even think we're thinking along these lines. But, I mean, I think the introduction of something like hamster dance is, it's technically, you could almost technically call it like one of the first memes ever, right? Oh, yeah. Just in the sense of like, maybe it's not like what we traditionally think of as a meme, but it's this like inside joke thing that is really corky and weird that only people who know, know about.

You know if you know and you don't. And it's just weird. There's not necessarily anything to specifically derive from it either. It's just this weird cultural connector. Like if you know about this, you know about this, right? And that's what the weird grim foreshadowing of what the internet would truly become in about a decade. Yeah. And other grim foreshadowings of what, man, talk about like,

of weirdly like growing up fast and having to learn a lot though of something that I'm realizing how much it shaped me was the murder of Phil Hartman in 1998 and that oh my God that was 98

wow that was grim talking about the word grim I remember having to have my mom explained to me what was happening and I was like his wife but if she didn't like him why didn't she leave him I remember having this conversation

And she'd sat down and really talk with me about because Henry and I loved Phil Hartman. Yeah, I still don't get it. That was the first celebrity death that really shook me. Yeah. I don't even know how you describe that to it. I don't still don't understand that why that had to happen the way it did. You know, it's just so unfortunate. Truly mentally ill and it is.

I mean, I never watched. I believe that there's a dock on it. And it was one of those ones that was I couldn't bring myself to watch it. I was like, I don't want to look. It's so sad. It's too upsetting. Yeah, that was the first celebrity death where I remember, I was in complete denial. I was like, this is impossible.

He's Troy McClure. Yeah. Like how could this happen? And I was obsessed with SNL at the time too. Like, and I, I, I, yeah, that and Chris, that and Chris Farley was like the, the two celebrity deaths that really, really scared the absolute shit out of me. I don't think there were, I can't think of a single celebrity death that mattered to me before those two.

No. Of course. Yeah, that was just a tough one for sure. Another thing, I don't think we mentioned that Seinfeld ends in 1998, which was such a big part of my personal, just day-to-day, week-to-week life. I mean, that was the way that I communicated with my parents, like my love language is kind of a sad one.

We would just sit in silence and stare at a TV screen and laugh together at jokes at Lee. I mean, at least we did spend some quality time together. That was the love language, right? Yeah, it was, we would get together. I would come down. It was so funny. I would like, I would halt my upstairs TV schedule to come downstairs and watch some television with my family just to go back upstairs and continue watching TV alone.

But every Thursday, Seinfeld. Friends, Seinfeld, ER. And at this point, it's also in syndication. So I'm probably watching Seinfeld just like all week long, like that in The Simpsons. I would watch it at 6.30 in syndication. And then since I was in the central time zone, it was 630, Seinfeld rerun, 7. friends, eight, Seinfeld. I think between 7.30 and 8, I would try to finish my homework.

And then 8 at 8.30 and then 9 p.m. was ER. And this was, 1998 was the glory days of ER, George Clooney, Noel Wiley, Julia. Oh, yes. Good times. Good times. Oh, I had my schedule, by the way. I don't know about y'all, but I would, I would usually, a lot of times I would pull the Sunday newspaper and open it up and actually, like, in my head. Oh, Ghostbusters was playing on Wednesday.

four o'clock, I'll probably be able to get home from school in time to actually watch that on HBO. That's really sweet. I would like, I had my whole schedule down pat. Yeah. And yes, ER was a part of that. Oh, God. All those, those lawyer or doctor shows that would pop up at 10 p.m.

It was either that or primetime 2020, like, dumb news shows. Dateline in 2020. That's still, I still have a guilty pleasure for Dateline, and it's totally because that, my family watched Dateline every Friday night. What weird Friday night ritual to just be like, let's watch this true crime, magazine show and I just loved it. It was great. It was great, but I also was always convinced someone's going to murder me. And I was honestly watching too much TV. Like, I'm going to try as a parent, I think, to, and I feel like it's hard because you get so exhausted, but to try to

like instill a more active lifestyle in my child even during these years where like, yeah, you kind of have this weird situation where there's like, but I love television. We can either go to the movie theater or we can go bowling. Choose one. And if you're sick of both of those things, you're fucked. I guess I find weed from somebody. Try to find a person. That's the other thing too, just the lengths we would go through

to get weed. And the amount of times we were like completely ripped off because there was no, we were high school kids just trying to get weed. I remember one time we spent like an exorbit amount of money

on like the smallest amount of weed that everybody like made fun of me and my friend for actually giving them money for it. Because we were just like... Or the things, yeah, that you would find in your weed bag when like I remember one time I found,

some like pieces of mulch and then I was like oh man there's mulch in here and they like mixed in mulch to like make it see because we were so young that I was like man I don't think we could smoke any of this and um we did anyway of course I mean you figure it out um I do want to talk about some of the throwbacks of some of these celebrity couples at the time period because it is such a snapshot in time. And I found this Vulture article talking about the biggest couples of 1998. And they don't have their names on it,

so it's kind of fun to see Jackie, can you remember their names? This is the time period when Cameron Diaz and Matt Dillon were dating. Cameron Diaz, very big year for her. When did the mask come out? Yeah, the mask was a real sexual awakening for me. Big year for her.

This is the time period that I remember I hated Julia Roberts because she was dating Benjamin Bratt at the time period, and I loved Benjamin Bratt, and I was upset that she was dating him. This was also the time period that after 1995's inventing the Abbots, that Joaquin Phoenix and Liv Tyler, or Dana is another big Liv Tyler year as well.

Very big of Tyler year. That we just thought that she was just like, but that's just, I mean, she's just the daughter. She's not talented. She went from music video girl slash daughter of Stephen Taylor to like full-fledged actor, you know. And then Lord of the Rings is going to cement that as well pretty soon here. And she's a very, I mean, of course there's like Empire Records and stuff like that.

But this is, you know. That is well, Empire Records. Big year for her. And also speaking of Jennifer Love, Hugh, Hewitt, she was dating Carson Daly at the time. Big year about Carson Daly. 1998 relationship. Right. It's the biggest year ever for Carson Daly.

And I really do blame him for like making music, at least for a young Holden shitty. and he really did. He was like, we're changing the whole network. It's no longer going to be geared toward kids like Holden. It's going to be geared towards kids like Jim Jay. Kids like us. But also, Holden, this must have been a big year for your sad penis because this is the year that Carmen Electra and Dennis Rodman got married in Vegas.

Why would this make my penis sad? You love Carmen Elektra. I was, I'm surprised. You know, I'm trying to talk a little less about the things I used to jerk off to during these episodes. Yes, we have hit a weak spot. This is horny time. I mean, we get horny here.

Well, it's funny, you guys are actually in the weirder, hornier throws right now, technically, in the age you're at. It was a horny awakening. Horny awakening. I'm, like, settled into a full routine at this point. Like, I'm like, I know my rhythms. I know my, you know, I know how many times

is too many times. You know, I've learned all these lessons by this point. And now it's just a part of my life. I had a couple, real quick, as I see, I know we're wrapping up. was Harry Potter in the Chamber of Secrets, the book, not the film? Was that a big deal for you guys?

It wasn't for me, it wasn't even on my radar. Not for me, but my friends were reading it. Okay. Weird. Were you reading it yet, Jackie? Or was, yeah. I remember that I thought, because I was at this point in time,

specifically, I now remember it was my 11th. I was 11 on Christmas, not on Christmas, but it was my 11th year, Christmas. That I got the first two books, and I was like, this is for babies. I don't, I'm not, read Harry Potter. I read Stephen King now because I was like we, my mom was always big, yeah,

my mom was big into like, you can read literally whatever you want to read. There's never any censorship on reading. So I was reading Stephen King and so they got me the books and I was like, all right. And then I started reading it and I was like, well, I was really big into practical magic this year. And so part of me was starting to think that I wanted to become a witch. And I was like, well, I think that it means something that Harry Potter's 11 in this and I'm also 11. So I guess I'll keep reading them. And then I burst through the first two books in like a week and a half because I was like, oh, this is actually very entertaining,

but I wouldn't allow anyone to know that I was. I kept it all inside. That is so funny. So specifically I remember getting it for Christmas and because I was just a shit and a shit age of being like, I don't want this. I hate this. The other thing I was going to ask you about was this was also a big year for Madonna and her big resurgence with Ray of Light. Was that a little off y'all's radar because it was a little bit older kid stuff, fair, essentially? I just remember that I wasn't into it, but it was definitely like, wow, Madonna, like, figured it out how to stay relevant yet again, which is kind of insane. I think it was the last time she was, like, super popular, actually in modern, like, in the moment popular. I think it's the ray of light. I think was the final kind of thrust of her being.

And then ever since I think she's been chasing that dragon and never quite capturing what she had. I think at the time I was still like, Madonna's for like people in their 20s. You know, like I knew it was like us like for older people. It was well, it was VH1, right? Yeah. That was the difference between MTV and VH1.

Well, anyways, I think that pretty much, Jesse Camp winning MTV's want to be a VJ River Jesse. Oh my God. Yes. And were you guys, I think I was officially done with TGIF. I was at this point hanging out with friends on a Friday night or something like it or watching R-rated movies. Were y'all still

TGIF kids, boy meets world, Supreme the Teenage Witch. 100%. I was done. I was out by this point. But I lived and I died by it up to a certain point and I was finally off of... This was my transition year out. I really feel like I was Jackie, but also

my brother was like Holden and I was like wanted to be like that. So I was like, I'm older. I'm sub- culture, but also I like popular things too. Of course. I think the older sibling is like a lot of why, and my friend Pat, who was just really into music, was a lot of why I was like listening to stuff that even my,

like I was really in a pearl jam and rage against the machine and stuff that was maybe a little. Unless you have an older sibling like Henry was at the time who was not cool. So he couldn't show me anything and everything. I'm just like, oh, you're such a loser. You can't even tell me what to listen to and what to watch. All right. I mean, I think that that about covers it, right?

Anything else before we close out? Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, get up again.

And we're all getting up again. Oh, guys. That's what it was like. 2021, guys. We got it back. We're back. We're back in the present. And, you know, I got a lot of fond feelings for things from that year.

Not going to say I have fond memories of that year, but fun feelings for certain things. But. I do think that probably culturally, at least, things are better now. Kind of. I agree. Yeah, we're working. In terms of the options, you know. Between Monica Lewinsky and fucking baby one more time, I think we've made it to a better place.

At least for sexuality. Yes. Yes, we've learned something at least. And music. I think pop music's just definitely better. It's gotten better. But that was the beginning. It had to begin somewhere.

And I'm glad to start somewhere. And thank you guys so much for joining us on this rewind back to 1998. And this was a lot of fun. And really, I feel like I need to do this with my therapist. Just be like, all right, this year. Let me go through these things. I would suggest to, you know, do this with your friends. Doing this with Jake has been a completely different conversation.

And it always just brings you back to that time in your life, just talking about the shit that would. was in the news that was on movie screens, you know, it all just teleports you to a certain time and place for better or for worse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool.

We're all like, yeah. We're all pretty stressed out by this conversation. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Yeah, check us out. If you want to support us further, patreon.com forward slash page seven podcast. We have constant weekly bonus content popping out on that page.

Just definitely give it a look. See, if you'd like to do it. to check me out further Twitch.tv.TV forward slash Holdenaders Ho, Monday, Tuesday, Friday streams. Gotta get it in before I end up on that paternity leave, y'alls. Y'all. M.J. I'm MJ and I'm MJKLKat on Instagram.

Hell, yeah. I'm Jackie Zabrowski. You can follow me on Instagram at Jack That Worm. And also come check me out over my Twitch channel, Twitch.tv.4. Oh, no. It's Jackie. And we are doing, we have a little bit of an LPN break this week, we are around. Come find us. And next week, don't forget, I'm putting it into your ear holes right now, August 5th. We will be watching Twilight Breaking Dawn Part 1. I'm very upset about what happened in the first half of this book. And I am going to be very upset while I watch the movie. And you should come and hang out with Holden and Adley Eye while we do this. We love you guys. And we will see you next week. Take care, everybody.

like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors. You can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listen to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.