Page 7 - REEEEEEWIIIIIND 2003

Episode Date: December 8, 2022

This week we're rewindin' back to 2003 when Holden didn't have a TV, Jackie just kept gettin' cooler, and MJ remembers life before The Postal Service. Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser are going on TOUR! Dates and links to tickets at lastpodcastnetwork.com Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hi, I'm Jackie Zabrowski. And I'm MJ. And I'm Holden from the Page 7 podcast, and we're going on tour! That's right, we're touring all up in this mother freaking country. A fake cursing so whatever, Jackie. Just say the filthy F word already. And we will say the filthy F word when we come to your town. That's right.

We're coming to Texas, the Midwest, the Northeast, and then right back here in Cali, baby. For ticket links and more details, visit lastpodcastnetwork.com. That's right, Last Podcast Network.com. H. 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser present. Release the butthole cut. Wait, that's really what we're calling the tour? Absolutely. Release the butthole cut.

For more information, go to Last Podcast Network.com. Uh-oh, ah, oh, oh, uh-oh, uh-da, uh-da-da-da-da. Big, get busy. Just take down, put it awesome when to beat drop, just keep on swing it, get chiggy, get chrome, don't bed everybody, good. When you're a guy. And baby you need to come home

Come home Until the break of day Talk to me boy It's a mashup It's a 2000 To do do do It's a comment for you From such great heights

Come down now The Garden I'm man this is a big year Soundtrack I don't know Is the Garden State soundtrack Is the Big Year? I couldn't sing a hubas stank song of my life.

What do you mean? No, Garden State's 2004. 2004. But this is the music. The seeds are being planted for that very soundtrack this year. Wait. A founder reason for me to change who are you? That's the stank, MJ.

Don't fucking look at me like that. Now I know that's the steak. But if you had been like name a hoopa stank, like sing a melody, I'd be like, I can't do that. I know that everybody in 2003, thought they were stupid and everyone still thinks they're stupid but I'm not sure. Whoa! You're staking on the steak right now! It sounds like you're staking on the stank and I don't know if I can support this. I'm staking on the steak and listen, this is not just a fun melody

start to the episode for Jackie from 2003. This is what we like to call a page seven rewind! Rewind! And yes, we are talking about the year 2003. This is a big formative year for all three of us. I mean, namely because Postal Service dropped such great heights this year. There is before my life, before a postal service and my life after the Postal Service. It'll never be the same. It'll never be the same. But Holden, do you feel that way because you were old at this? I was much older, as I always am when we have these conversations. I, this is a really interesting time for me. I mean, in a way, like, the media-wise, I'd come to find a lot of these things later because I was like, I don't listen to a lot.

I don't like watch a lot of TV. I was definitely an, I don't know a TV asshole around this time. And I will wave that flag of I was a total. I don't have it. I think, I don't know to TV. Yeah, I think that I don't know to TV people are like,

whatever these days. But yeah, it was, I was in college and this was like, I had a horrible kind of, I thought everything was going to change when I got to college, right? I thought like I was just, my whole life was mad.

I could, you know, because you get to start over. I was, like, joining the theater program, like, I'll be with like-minded people. I'll be, I get there. I'm immediately, like, at a deficit because I was late, I was, like, out of state and late to registering for a dorm. So I ended up in, like, a horrible dorm called Cash Hall. It was like, where all the losers and outcasts and, like.

I wouldn't even step foot inside a cash hall. It was horrible. It was horrible. No, no, no, it was one of those situations where I was like, oh. Oh, it's just like more high school, essentially where I was like kind of miserable my living situation. I had a terrible roommate. The theater program, like, I was immediately

alienated from it. The faculty, just immediately saw me and was just like, no, this guy, why? Why would you let this guy in? And so everything was just kind of the rug pulled under me freshman year. But at the end of freshman year was given keys to this apartment. I was essentially handed down this apartment situation in this place called the House of Chaos.

It was right next to the theater school. It was technically... Of course, every college campus has a house of chaos. Right? It was technically off campus, but it was right on campus. So, like, even the campus police, no one knew how to, like... It was like, it was like international waters. Yeah, it was like, weirdly international water.

Like, it really was. It was this bizarre scenario. And literally, like, the first day of college, like, a bunch of people just showed up, like, all the cool theater kids that I would always wanted to be friends with all showed up. We're like, we're your new friends now. We're going to hang out all the time here. we're going to throw parties, it's going to be great. And so this 2003 was like the year of, it was the butterfly.

It was my butterfly year. 2002, 2002, 2003. 2002 is kind of when it started, the transition, right? And I just, all of a sudden, I was like, I was, I had, I had cool friends going to parties. I kissed a girl and I liked it. Wow. That would come out not that long after this year, but. No.

Okay. What about, what about you guys? Yeah. Where were you at in 2003 in your life? Jackie set the scene for us. Oh, sweet 16 bitches. This was like the height of me becoming popular.

This was like everything. Wow, okay. Oh yeah. Both holding a Jackie. Popular years. This is our popular years. And I remember I had, which everyone thought was so fucking cool, was I did a photo scavenger hunt for my 16th

birthday where I put everyone was in teams and every team had to have someone that had a car so that they could go and drive around and get a but and I thought I was the smartest person of all time. Technically, one of the most wholesome things to do for your sweet 16. And then we went out and got a bunch of drugs afterwards, but that was fine. No one needs to know about that part. But it was just great because like we all wore Togas, but we did it during the day. How beautiful and childlike is that?

Yeah. You know? Yeah. But at the same time, after, but then, you know, we did go to the pier afterwards. And when you go down to the pier, all things are all. You know? It's funny you were living this double life a little bit, huh? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, I did for a very long time. But now I don't lie anymore and I don't hide my addictions. So that's kind of nice. Hey. Hey. I lied so much in high school. It was no, it was so ridiculous. All I did was lie.

I don't know. It was lie. I cannot tell a lie now. Like now I'm at a point in my life That go ahead, try to get me I can't lie about anything anymore I'm not a good actress It's why I stopped auditioning

I just can't lie anymore And that's okay And yes I'm calling all good actors And actresses liar Liars, yeah They're liars Professional liars We all know it

And that's why you're lying real life as well Yeah that's why I'm not getting the jobs That's why Yeah Because you're a bunch of pretty little liars You're pretty little. Where's your A? Liar.

What about you, MJ? Where were you at? I had a bit of a, well, I was in high school like Jackie, but my brother is Holden's age. And so he was in college. And so, and I basically became. Oh, my God. How much anger did you have? How angry you?

I was so angry. I was so angry that Henry was at college. And then I was still in high school. Well, Jackie, despite all your rage, you were still just a rat in a cage. In a cage. slamming pills, just eating pills. Oh, yeah. My kids are only a grade apart, and I always think, like, well, thank God, you know, Zelda will only have to be, like, angry for a year, you know, like that Freddie is off at college.

Yeah, so, but I became totally obsessed with visiting John at college, and that was when I first heard the Postal Service for the first time. And it really was, like, I had a joke before, like, life before the Postal Service and after, but I think that that album was probably the first, like, indie album I ever. heard and I remember exactly where I was like that night I remember who I was with. It was like fucking seeing color for the first time. I was so happy and so I feel

like this year, 2003 was I was in high school and I was you know I had a I complained all the time about my childhood in my hometown but I had a great great friends good theater program in my high school good lot of great arts and I was having a good time but I was like still

you know, an angsty teen and wanted to go hang out with the cool college kids who were listening to the Postal Service. And so I was like a little bit, very much still a high schooler, maturity-wise, but thought that I was cool like the college kids who my brother was kind enough to let me hang out with. Yeah, there was a big sea change in music. And I think it affected all of us at the exact right time as we were, you know, if we weren't already in college, we were about to go to college, right? Because I just looked up, Matt, for me, it might, I think it was actually Mountain Goats, Tallahassee. It was no children was the song I heard that was like the same thing you're describing.

That came out in 2002. Riloh-Kiley, portions for foxes. Oh. Yeah, yeah. That was 2004. So this is all right. And then, of course, you got a lump in, neutral milk hotel into that, the shins. The Garden State soundtrack comes out in 2004, which is weird because then like you're,

that girl you knew from high school that like stayed in town, she's now listening to. Yes, that was, a Garden State was like, all my, right, all my friends. in Dubuque were listening to the music that I was only hearing in St. Paul, like, you know, where I was like, only the most sophisticated college students know about these songs. And you had that, and you had that Streaking War where you guys were snapping at each other between Dubuque and St. Paul, the St. Paul kids, the DeBuque, you were, we have to fight together and dance.

And, yeah, I remember that whole crazy thing. But this is also like that same time period where it is, there's such a crucial music time period for a human being is between these. Like between my age and your age, Holden, I feel like the things that you listen to then, a lot of people say that the things you listen to around that age is the stuff you will listen to for the rest of your life, which is very true.

I do try to listen to new music. But honestly, I'm sad that it came out in 2001. Last night, Jeff and I were both working on separate projects, and we started watching the Royal Tenenbaum's. And I just remember, I remember that was in 2001. And I remember when that soundtrack came out, that was the first soundtrack that I was, like,

obsessed with when it came to like you don't even know what kind of music I listened to. Of course now looking back at it, but like that was the beginning of me listening to music of like, you don't even know. So when Postal Service dropped, I'm just like, oh my God. Even though looking back now, it's a

huge album. But for us, like I felt like so cool. Yes, exactly. Yes. And I just, I want to throw this out there by the way. There's such a dare, if you go, because usually we'll like pull up a bunch of stuff on Google. If you just type in 2003 music, very different from 2003 indie music.

Putting that in, you've got not only Postal Service Such Great Heights, you've got Death Cap for Cutie, the New Year. That's the New Year. Is that what they say? And they still feel any different. Oh, Balin Sebastian. Bellin Sebastian, I'm a cuckoo.

You've got stars in 2003. I was a huge of the stars. This is crazy. Oh, yeah. But then at the same time, and everybody in the club getting pretty. Every in a getting see. Like that was at the simultaneously.

Yes. Truly. What a weird time for music. It was a weird time. And I will say like, because also I think 2003, it's like, was transferring from sophomore to junior year for me. And that was when I did the study abroad, I think in the fall of 2003. I was in London.

Because seeing Hey, Yaw pop up, that outcast double album was, I remember playing that so much when I was out across the pond and hearing it into club as well and there was You went to a club?

I went to a club I went to a club because in order to keep drinking What was so weird because like the pubs in London close at like 11 so if you want to be outside and drinking

you have to go to like a club There's no, there's no, like, middle bar situation. Like, you either are an old man that goes to bed at 11, or you stay out till 5 in the morning at these places. And so, yeah, we definitely, definitely remember dancing a lot to that. And I also remember I had a roommate. Megan Boone was our little indie, like, link to. She met some two British DJ man and was turning us on to stuff like, yeah, yeah, yeah, and the strokes and all that. good stuff as well. There was kind of like this indie dancey scene as well that was coming about around

this time. I follow this great Instagram account. I forget what it's called off the time. I'll try to find it called, but it's like all just party kid pictures from this era. Yeah. And it's so fun to watch because there was like a filthiness to it and like an ugliness to it, but it was also so hot and so like sweaty and sexy. And mind you, like we had a completely different Lance, the most fun thing about these rewinds is thinking about how like where the internet was, you know?

And so we had the internet, but at this time it was like you were like kind of lucky if you had a digital camera, you know? So obviously The Nokia phones were really big then like the brick phones. I had known as brick phones. Right. And like I went to college in 2004

and I got a digital camera. And so I would like take my digital camera to parties and take pictures and then like excitedly go home and like load the digital camera pictures onto my computer, which I like cannot be bothered to do. Like I cannot be bothered to load anything onto my computer now, but it was like the most exciting thing. And so to even have, it's not like there was no pictures, obviously. It wasn't the fucking 1800s, but it was obviously completely different in terms of like how our lives were being documented. Like we just didn't have this alternate reality of like, how is this

being documented? How am I sharing it? Am I talking to other people who aren't here in the room with me right now the way that we are now, you know? It was just like you would go to a party and then like maybe months later you would see a picture of yourself at that party. A beautiful existence. Just amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Man, this is also the year that Brittany Spears dropped in the zone, which is like her set, like the one with toxic on it. And like, really? Gotcha. Yeah. Every time I try to fly. I fall without my wings.

It's just right after the Justin. I'm going to be in a. conservative ship and is gonna be so hard. It's weird that she called it. This is the beginning. This is the like up the roller coaster of her come down. Well, not to jump into TV, but I just want to bring up one TV show just adjacent to this. The simple life I said right before we started, I think, was the beginning of what amounted to our 2008 episode of like, as I said, celebrities, not only are they just like us, but they're

also idiots and we think they're stupid. And, like, we're going to make fun of them. You know what I mean? And, like, that, I think that trend, that cultural sea change when it came to celebrity stuff started around this time. Yes, because I read an article that brought up the show Rich Girls, which I remember. I think that it was, like, maybe, like, the daughters of the Hill Figures or something. Like, the Rich Girls preceded, just preceded Simple Life, I believe.

That, like, I bring it, because I just, I hadn't thought about rich girls. I remember that would talk about the wild west of reality television at that point because that was such like a weird. We thought it was a one-off, but then it just like opened up into like the simple life. It opened up to into the reality that we have currently. Yes. And in addition to like there was the reality emerging. I want to talk about emerging reality because my two favorite reality shows of all time, Joe Millionaire and Mr. Personality were this year.

But then also to go with the simple life part, there was the entire way that we were talking about like women slash girls and like sec, the like whatever sexy model of what a girl should look like at this time. It is really truly worth interrogating because there is this vanity fair cover from 2003 that has Amanda Binds, the Olson twins. Remember the Olson twins count down to when they were turning. 18. So they were not 18 yet. Amanda Bines, the Olson twins, Mandy Moore, Hillary Duff, Alexis Bladel, Lindsay Lohan, Raven Simone. Oh my God, I remember this. I think I had this cut out on something. And the headline of the, and the front of the event of Ferry Fair with all these teens on it says it's totally raining teens. And it's like so a major moment in pop culture. 20 pages of the hottest teen and tween stars. And like,

Mind you, these kids, these children, like, were these. I mean, yes, we were kids, and so it was kind of being marketed to us. But also, this is Vanity Fair. This is not, like, 17. This was, like, the mainstream image of who are hot people were, were like, people who were under 18. Yeah, it's crazy. So weird. And then they all went nuts.

You know, they all had a very hard time afterwards because how could they not? Yeah, I mean, who in this, of these, of all these people I'm looking at on this cover, who did not? completely lose their mind. Right. I mean... I just am also reading this quick article that was like talking about how difficult and horrendous that shoot was. Oh, yeah. A lot of them didn't like each other.

I'm sure. And specifically Hillary Duff and Lindsay Lohan, this is the height of their like big beef. And like, so it was just like a very stressful, horrible day. Yeah. That is now forever on a magazine cover. They're pretty far apart from each other. Yeah. It's also so a Raven is like the old

only non-white person. It was just a time. It was, of course, a time where, like, nobody, I think, was thinking, like, should we have a group of, like, 10 white girls on the cover of a magazine?

Or should we have, like, it's slightly more diverse than that? But it is just, I'm looking at this Vanity Fair cover, just being like, what the fuck? Thinking about that Mary Kate and Ashley Countdown

and thinking about that, Paris Hilton and, who was the other, like, Nicole Richie? On the Simple Life, were also young, but they were like in their early 20s. But like the Olson twins and Hillary Duff and Lindsay Lohan were the like hottest like sex symbols in this time. And they were all still like, you know, so, so young.

They're little girls. I mean, they're just totally little girls. But they're all dressed up as. Hillary Duff was 15 in that picture. That's crazy. So she looks like the oldest. She looks like the oldest. Like this is like that's the craziest part that like, you know,

I see all these memes out. They're like 15 year olds now versus 15 year olds at like TikTok and then like us when we were 15 where we're all just like, I put a shoe on my hand. Mr. And I do feel like, it's like, but then there was this idea that was being put into our head. So like while a shoe was on my hand, I looked at that 15 year old and it was just like, I got to grow up faster. Yeah, I'm like, I'm a kid. Why am I a kid?

I'm a kid. I'm a teen. There's this pressure to grow up too fast and it's sad. Are you thinking about your baby girl right now? Are you thinking about your baby girls? You both thinking about your girls? Sweet baby, winnie girl. Yeah.

I mean, that's the thought I've had is like to just be like, don't worry about becoming an adult. It'll happen. Really just enjoy this time when you're 15. My parents said that to me and I was just like, I want to pay bills. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But right, but you did.

You wanted to. I did. I wanted independence. Yeah, I wanted, or I just wanted to, you know, to responsibly drink beer, you know what I mean? And it was just like... Just thinking of that. Just like, like, one day, you're never going to have to think about trying to get booze ever again. You're just going to be able to go get booze.

And now I haven't delivered because I can't even bother to go to the fucking store for it. And then it just, and then it becomes like a huge problem. You know what I mean? It was a huge problem. I went through those years. Not anymore. But speaking of big problems. So Britney Spears did become the youngest singer to receive a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame at the age of 21.

So we're talking about her uptick to her downfall. She's 21 in 2003. Yes. And Amanda Bynes had her like big, also big kind of flame out, you know, downfall, like similar to the arc of Britney without ever having gotten, you know, as high, obviously. But became famous when she was like 10 and is in this photo, you know, in her like midteens. obviously the Olsen twins famous from from being little kids. Hillary Duff's show was a show

for like 12 year olds. Loved Lizzie McGuire. And obviously Lindsay Lohan also became famous like as a little kid. Yeah, I love Lizzie McGuire too. This is the year I saw the Lizzie McGuire movie and the drive-in. Yes, and this was the age group where too

I still watched Lizzie McGuire but I pretended like I didn't. Same. Yes. That's for kids. You're getting a little too old for stuff but you're still dabbling. What a weird.

That was such a weird time. Yeah. Because like I was so sexually attracted to Gordo, even though Gordo, because like once I found out Gordo was like 19 when he was doing Lizzie McGuire, even though he looked like a 12 year old, which also, if you think about it is weird, I was very, very into it. Yeah, it's, it's, this, all this awkwardness.

I was just when we just had Halloween come and go and I started thinking about like my last Halloween trick-or-treating. it's that awkward transition, right? And how weird it felt and how you just knew deep down, like, oh, this is like, this part of my child is like over. Yeah, like, but you don't know what to hang on to.

Yeah. Can we just say I was at home for Halloween this year and my mom got so excited because, like, I went to the door and then I came back and I was like, it was like four 16 year old but they all had costumes on. So like, and my mom's like,

they had costumes on. Isn't that nice? Yeah. Isn't it so nice that they have another year If they put in the costumes on, give them all the candy. Yeah. I agree. They put the effort in.

My policy on Halloween is that anyone gets candy. I don't care how old you are. And if you are a trade trick or treating, all the better, right? Because just like you were saying, Holden, like the pressure, it's, it's, it's, we, Jackie and I were the same, were the perfect age to feel all this pressure like you're supposed to be. And also talk about body image stuff, all of that. Oh. And like this.

Yeah. And so I feel like I was in this time, like I was 16. you're 17 and I was totally acting like a little kid. Like you said, Jackie, like doing scavenger hunts and shit, you know, but then also looking at these, you know, kids who were my age, who were presented as sex symbols for the mainstream and, like, adult world and totally feeling like something was wrong with me for like not being even close to being ready for that shit, you know? Now apply the internet to that reality.

Right. And all of a sudden, you're also just looking at a penis and bondage gear all of a sudden. What am I, how am I supposed to exist? You know, yeah, that whole transition was so weird and awkward, which I feel like we all get so awkward outside of even just the changes in our bodies, right? But also, like, everyone was going through it. A little bit of context for Britney Spears. 2004 is, I think, the first crack in her facade.

That's the Vegas trip where she marries Jason Alexander. Not the guy from Seinfeld, yes. O3, yes. O3 is the lead up to, like, her first, news story where people went, huh, that seems odd, like, you know, to go party in Vegas and walk away married. And yes, there was definitely a bunch of cocaine involved in that situation, which is just completely foreign from the Brittany. Everyone just, like, decided was Britney, you know. Well, also, this is the year of the Britney and Madonna Kiss on stage at the VMAs.

Wow. Yeah. So this is, again, this is the real beginning. of people. How old's Madonna? Well, older. I mean, if Britney Spears, what is she now? She's in her 60s now, and this was what, 20 years ago? We're coming up on this is 20 years ago. Wait a second.

Yeah. So she was in her 40s. So Britney Spears is 21, and Madonna's in her 40s? Yeah, man. Wow. And crucially, that was. why people thought that kiss was weird, right? Like, isn't it so funny to think about, it's, it's so strange, even though it shouldn't

feel strange, because I know that homophobia is alive and well was, was the absolute norm and mainstay until very, very recently. But, you know, I feel like homophobia is one of those things that changed in culture so rapidly that it feels very strange to look back and think that an entire nation was scandalized by two women kissing for like a second on TV. But man, that was like, I feel like the Madonna and Britney kiss was like not quite as high as the nip slip for scandal, but almost, right? Yes.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then because this is, I remember when we were doing the Britney Spears episode two, talking about this was also the height of the like supposed fight between Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera as the idea of. top stars when in reality, obviously, this was a big, like, media thing that was put on them. But then, like, in this, on top of that, we only ever remember that Madonna kisses Britney Spears, but she does kiss Christina right afterwards.

But no one also, weirdly, ever talks about that. I feel like it's always Britney and Madonna kissed. I wonder that there was multiple kisses on the stage. That's interesting. I wonder if that's because at that time Madonna was still a. associated as like the most like the like forward thinking controversial sex figure that she you know from which you used to be now you mean before she was licking the water at a dog bowls to the stooges i want to be your dog yeah yeah that before this era of madonna

that none of us wanted to see um this is it's a weird era of madonna this is yeah you're right this was back when she was doing um you know this is this is still a like a virgin version of Madonna in all of our brains. Right, right. And just like Queen of Pop and all that kind of stuff. But I also think that part of the reason why that they was focused so much in Britney Spears and Madonna's kiss as opposed to Christina's kiss is because of the, quote, downfall that we watch Madonna of just like, and remember when she did that? Uh-huh. Remember that?

I think also Christina was weirdly always considered more like outward with her sexuality and stuff, whereas like Britney's whole aesthetic was like, she's a good, girl, but sometimes she can be bad. And this is the beginning because this is toxic, you know? Yeah. The, that beginning of doing more, like, racie things. Because, good Lord, even just 20 years ago, how prudish. Yeah. How prudish and how censored everything was of just like the idea of, oh, two women

kissing still, 2003? Yeah, totally. It's such a weird, that was such a weird, that was such a weird, and just, it was more like, it wasn't even that it was, because nowadays, if something like that culturally were to happen, you'd have all these different types of reactions to the event, whereas I, you know, you'd have all these, like, think pieces and tweets, like, being like, hey, like, the context is kind of weird, we should like look at what this is. Whereas supposed to back then, everyone was just like, wow, wow, wow, wuga, wooga, like,

there was just a total acceptance of that moment as like a fun, hot, cool pop culture moment that had no, there was nothing about it to be questioned and stuff. And again, it's just such a naive. It's almost like, it's kind of like pre-9-11, post-I-le-level. It's like pre-head shave, post-head shave. It's like, right. There wasn't like a, this was around the time of like the emergence of kind of blogs and like that kind of internet discourse.

But it was so pre, you know, Twitter and like the way that internet discourse exists now. It is interesting to think, yeah, because the, the, the, Britney Bedonicus was 2003 and the Janet Jackson, Justin Timberlake, you know, NIP thing at the Super Bowl of 2004, both of which were huge scandals, both of which if they had happened in 2012 or later, would have had, you know, a week's worth of discourse of like, this is feminist, this is not feminist, whatever, this is, JT's fault, this is Janet's. But because we didn't have that discourse yet, and don't get me wrong, there's a lot of exhausting things about the way that the internet is now. But I think that the narrative of how things happened before we had this kind of ongoing constant conversation

facilitated by the internet was that like the narrative just got set and stayed right like it was just like Janet Jackson showed her boob and like ruined television for like evangelical Christians and like that was just like it was just like it was Janet's fault and that was the narrative that stayed and it really like stuck and there wasn't a lot of like disc I mean Yeah, there was discussion around it, but not the same, not the way that there is now where the discussion happens right away and is kind of an organic, ongoing thing. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting to think of like how the Brittany Madonna kiss, even with a still homophobia context that was and prudishness context of 2003 would have been different if there was the technological means for people to discuss it in the way that we have now, too, you know. Right.

Yeah, we used to just throw stones and move on or collectively applaud and move on and it's totally the landscape is completely changed. Right. Yeah, well, so I... But I'm not gonna be like in the new, the Santa Claus is where he starts yelling about how you can't even say Christmas.

Are you, are you still, like, just trucking through those? I shouldn't. Like, I hate myself. You starting to feel guilty for supporting it? I'm mad that I'm watching the Santa Claus. And I still just have it on just because I'm like, I gotta see Bernard. I gotta see,

like that's literally why I have it on in the background. But Jackie, I mean, it's like we can't even just celebrate Christmas anymore. We can't even say Christmas anymore. The snowflakes are taking the Christ out of it. Oh, give me a break.

We took the Christ out of it a long fucking time ago. No, he doesn't say the snowflakes, does he? No, he doesn't. But I'm waiting for something like that. I'm waiting for it. I mean,

it really is right there right in front of them to make. I mean, it's Christmas time. There's snow everywhere. A snowflake joke really would work well. Okay, but I have to get on my big soapbox about the show Joe Millionaire, which in addition to. Here we go. In addition, we allow it.

We allow this to happen. Although I will say just real quick, before we leave music forever, Evanescence did come out. Like the Bring Me to Life came out this year. This is also a big, like, of me need. I was obsessed with Evanescence. so I just needed to say that that was another big formative part of my... And this is, like, definitely where we diverge, right? I, that was definitely...

Yeah, I think it was like, you weren't like... They would take your college kid card away if you were listening to Havanaise. I had to be listening to fucking, you know, bright eyes or death cap for cutie, like, lament the winter. Was Enya at this time, too? It was the same vibe, by the way. Well, Enya was, did... I mean, Enya did the 9-11 song. So that was like...

Earlier. Yeah. All right. Well, I was going to... I was going to posit that Joe Millionaire was like the first mainstream reality show. But I'm wrong because The Bachelor came out in 2002. But Joe Millionaire was like the... Certainly for me, the first time I remember, like, I went over to my friend's house

who was like college age, not in college at the time. And he was like, I was such a... Talk about being innocent. I just had no idea how high he must have been. I was just like, you want to watch Joe Millionaire with me? He was like, absolutely. Anyone that says absolutely. Yeah.

And, but like, that was, Joe Millionaire was the first reality show that I remember, like, watching in this format. And there was the same year as The Simple Life, and it was like this whole thing, like, ooh, reality. And what was the premise again for anyone like me who this completely passed by? What was the Joe Millionaire set up?

He was a handsome man who was poor secretly. and he was presented to a group of women and the women were told that he was rich. And so the question was, if they fell in love with him because he was a rich guy, would they still love him when it was revealed at the end of the season that he was a poor construction worker?

Spoiler alert, what was the result of these? I don't remember. I got to, I let me look it up. I mean, I think that they were pretty disappointed if I remember correctly. I would be, I'd feel quite misled for sure. I'd be like, wait, can I switch to The Bachelor? Because they don't do that, that's amazing.

I mean. Yeah, and then Mr. Personality, of course, which I've talked about a million times before, was the one where they all wore terrifying masks. Terrifying masks over there. It was hosted by Monica Lewinsky. Oh, yeah. And it was one woman and like 20 men all wearing masks.

But it's just, you know, there's no real takeaway from, Joe Millionaire, other than how quaint it is to look back on how novel it felt to be watching. Like, you know, and this was obviously before TiVo, I think, and you would just be like, I have to watch on Thursday night my Joe Millionaire and I have to see whether the women will stay with him. And it really did change television. And obviously, that's basically all that's on network TV now is variations on this shit, right? Yeah, completely.

God, it's just so weird that we used to have to, like, set our watches around it and make sure we were at home at the exact specific time. And it made it more of an event and it made it more of a, you know, I don't know if I'd say I'd necessarily miss it. But it was cool knowing I was like collectively watching something at the exact same time as everyone else. Not just like I'm generally binging something around the same time as everyone else. I think it's a wide part of the reason why I still like to watch award shows. Like I do like, yeah. It's like the last passion.

We're all watching it at the same time. But also you watch those numbers plummet more and more every year because people are going to just watch the highlights from it. And like, and this year was a huge year at the Oscars because this was a huge like, oh, Lord of the Rings, bitches. Oh, yeah. Return of the King came out. Oh, Return of the King won all, I believe, 11 Oscars that they were nominated for.

This was big. And it was like that, I mean, for me, oh, oh, I was so. Because like talking about like the, for MJ and I being in that in between of wanting to grow up and not wanting to grow up, this is also the same year that Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix came out, which I also remember doing a line in the car and then putting on my wizard's cloak that my mother made me to go stand in line. We want to go get the book. Fucking, that is just such a perfect example of that bizarre, yeah. Bizarre in between. And we get tagging out to go do more in the car while we stood in line to get Harry Potter

in the Order of the Phoenix. I'm like, I'll tell you what, had a blast. Yeah, great time. Surrounded by little children, so thrilled. Except no, we were all like in that like, like because we're all keyed up, it's like, you don't even love Harry Potter as much as we love Harry Potter.

I was his age when I started reading Harry Potter, you know, like cocaine-fueled gatekeeping. Yeah, exactly. I get gatefield gatekeeping at 16 years old. My God, yeah. Wow, yeah. Both of those, I feel like Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter were both like huge movie theater experience.

Like that experience doesn't exist anymore either. Like the huge. Well, kind of with MCU stuff. If anything, it actually exists too much. I guess you're right. And we need to get back to letting other types of movies hit us in the theater like they used to. Like, no, the only thing anyone goes to see is like, and this really started it. And I do remember the pressure on Lord of the Rings on the whole trilogy.

Like that moment when the hubris of the, the trilogy winning all the awards was definitely a long lead-up of like, please don't fuck this up. Please don't fuck this up. Like, please nail the land. got this. And then Return of the King came out. It was a total triumph. And it's what turned me into a fantasy fan. I saw the first movie. Then I was like, maybe I should read these books. And then I read the first book after I saw the first movie, I read about half the second book before I saw the second one. And so when I showed up for Return of the King, I had fully devoured the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy in book form and was fully, with that movie watching experience,

was fully transformed into like a fantasy nerd. I was like never into fantasy because that was just something my parents weren't into at all. My dad is like an avid book reader, but is just not into sci-fi fantasies, like, literature, nonfiction kind of guy. So, Lord of the Rings was your first, was your, like, the thing that would change it for you? Big time. So, like, Return of the King. Because then cut to college, I had that extended trilogy on DVD, and it was back when, you know,

you were essentially watching whatever was in your DVD collection, you know? Yeah. When did the family guy DVDs come out? Was that 2000? Because remember that shit? It was just everybody had family guy on. I just remember I would get them every year for Christmas and I hated family guy.

I was just like, oh, fine, great. I've got another season of family guy. Well, and I would just remember going to like some Stoner's house or whatever and it would just always be on. And it was this revelation like, we could have like the whole thing in this one box right here.

It's just all the shows. We don't have to like wait for it to come on because Simpsons DVD box sets were also a revelation. I was obsessed this. Yes, with my Simpsons DVD boxes at this time. Yes. Yeah.

Also, a correction. TiVo actually originated in 1999, but I think didn't become more mainstream. Didn't become a household. Until the early 2000s. Totally. Didn't become a household product. And that was just the beginning of a complete

sea change for all of that stuff. Yeah, I want to return, go back to movies, because there's a lot of stuff going on this year. I mean, I think the biggest one that pops out for like this podcast, particularly, is Love actually came out in 2003. Oh, man, I was just watching, like, the love and laughter.

They just did a 20-year anniversary special on a clue for Love Actually, and I did watch that yesterday. Really? Oh, my God, I'll watch it. How is it? It's great. It's great. I mean, it's like there's some things about Love Actually that I didn't know because I was

obsessed with this movie, obviously. Obviously. And, God, especially, oh, you give me a Christmas movie that makes me cry. I watch it every damn year, baby. And the reunion special is pretty cute. It's nothing. Like, it's not mind-blowing, but it is fun. Well, did they do a Mystic River reunion special?

Oh, my God. Don't even get me started. I was fucking obsessed with Mystic River. I watched Mystic River so many times. I don't know why. I was absolutely obsessed, even though it's like evil fuckhead, Sean Penn is in it. I know it's so sad. I definitely saw it.

Mystic River in the theater, and I want to say it may be more than once. It's a great movie. It was like a genuinely good movie. Is it? I don't know. I haven't seen it since. There was a lot. It was like in the general genre of like famous actors men being like, what happened to my daughter? Right? It was just like that.

It was like the pre. Yeah, yeah. It was like, yeah, it was like, yeah, exactly. It was like, but it was like really dark. Wasn't it based off a true story? But anyway, it's very dark about the child being ruined. And then the parents who get, the community that can, yeah, it's just a big, long, slow revenge. Yeah, it's really sad.

Right, oh, watch Mystic River. Should I watch Mystic River? Probably. Another holiday staple that came out this year besides Love actually, hilariously enough that I watched like every year with my brother, Bad Santa came out in 2008. Got a little bit. Santa is this year as well.

Yeah. It's always in my rotation. It is just totally, it's like probably the most recent, Fuck me, Santa. Fuck me, Santa. It's probably the most recent, you know, it's like the Scrooge or whatever, you know, that movie that you put on every year. I don't think, I don't think there's one since then, besides falling for Christmas, of course, that is like in my rotation. Cranpus.

I need to watch Cranpus this year. I've been sleeping on Cranpus. I'm going to check that out for sure this year. Also, this was the year that I remember, I specifically remember at the Oscars that spirited away the Miyazaki film won for best. animated. And that was definitely because I think also having an older brother that Henry worked at Hollywood video for forever. And Henry was always the like

oh, you haven't seen this. You know, like so I always wanted to like keep up. So I would always try and watch. And this was the first Miyazaki film that's see. I don't know if it is their first film. But spirited away I just remember blew my fucking mind. Yeah.

That is one that I still will throw on every once in a while because it is just I remember I was a nanny for a little girl that loved Spirited Away. So I think I've seen it like 150 times. Kind of creepy for a four-year-old to be really, really obsessed with. But man, she loved it.

Yeah, I want to give a little shout out to if you go into, let's see, if you go into HBO Max, there's totally a studio Ghibli section. If you can actually go into each different studio that they have on there, they got them all, man. Hell yeah. They got spirited away. my neighbor Totoro, Kiki's Delivery

Service, Pono, How's Moving Castle, Nasa Princess Monanouke, Nasca of the Valley the Wend. It's all, it's this incredible collection that rarely pops up on your actual HBO Max menu because they're always throwing the new stuff of you. They've got everything.

And a documentary about Miyazaki and just like all those movies are all in this beautiful collection on your streamer that you probably already have. So definitely check Check that out. But I'm going to say... Because I discovered that recently.

I'm going to say three words that I want to know if it means anything to you three. Three words I haven't heard together in quite some time. Mona Lisa Smile. Oh, Mona Lisa Smile. I remember the cover of it with Julia Roberts on it. So boring, but for some reason watched it many times. That's the nice. It was just a...

This was the height of Julia Roberts movies. Maybe this was the last height of Julia Roberts' movies. movies because it was just like, I just remember every, I just saw Mona Lisa smile while I was looking at the 2003 movies and I was like, yeah, why do I know a lot about that movie? Like, it's just utterly forgettable. Monoculture, again, this is a time when it wasn't, that's why we're watching Mystic River over and over again. That's why we're watching Mona Lisa smile over and over again. We're still, we're still going to Blockbuster at this point. Oh, yeah. It's whatever's on that wall. Right. That's what you're going to get. I just looked up this list of, like, it's a,

it's a specific person's list of top 50 films of 2003. These are such like things that in my brain, I thought I was being indie because I watched Lost in Translation. Yes. Because I saw an old boy, which old boy still fucking rules. There was like elephant, which I completely forgot about,

triplets of Belleville, which was another one of, it was an animated movie that I, I thought I was like, nobody watched it. By the way, elephant was about a school shooter. And so to put into context, Like this was when essentially like the shock, yes, the shock of like Columbine and everything had started to wear.

And now it's like a normal part of this is elephant. I feel like kind of cement school shootings as like a just regular part of American culture that didn't exist. Yeah, before. Lawson translation was the perfect college kid movies. Punch Young Love didn't come out this year. Did it? 21 grams also. Yes.

Was one of those like, I'm so. And coffee and cigarettes. Yes. Yes. A hundred percent college kid. in college kids being like, have you ever heard of coffee and cigarettes? I also was definitely in London for part of this year because I remember seeing at a really fancy theater in the West End of London, the premiere weekend of Kill Bill Volume 1,

which I fucking loved. Loved that movie theater experience. Loved that movie. Still love that movie. Yeah, that was just absolutely. There's so many, but also this year, you know, I was also the kind of guy I was like, totally had the biggest crush on Diane Keaton. something's got to give.

I was going to say, something's got to give. Diane Keaton and Jack Nicholson. I'm looking at these movies. I do see also the beginning of the changing landscape of like, there's so many less rom-coms made now, you know? And like, you know, I feel like something's got to give. There used to be something's got to give made three, four times a year, right? How many movie, just looking at a glance at these movie posters,

how many movie posters feature a guy and a girl leaning against each other with their, like, backs to each other? Brady Murphy's in like three romantic comedies just in this year alone. Well, this is the year of how to lose a guy in 10 days. That's the same kind of thing, same kind of cover, same kind of rom-com. Yep.

It's just, there's so much of it. And I lamented too. I was talking about it recently. I wish there were more rom-coms in the wild. It's just not happening like it was at this point. Shout us to some other movies I love this year. School of Rock. I fucking love so much.

That was another one that I saw at this age, at this time period, that I was like, oh, this is going to be a movie for kids. And then I was obsessed with it. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I slept on it for a while, because I also felt like it was probably going to be that. Not realizing it was directed by one of my favorite directors of the time is I was obsessed with Dasing Infuse Richard Linklater, which then you go back and you're like, oh, yeah, this is totally a Linklater film and it's amazing. Yes. Also, you know, old school, man. You're my boy, Blue. I mean, I was all about old school.

I remember that was like something my brother and I, again, really, like, bonded over. And you guys, I can't believe we haven't said it yet, but Gilles. Wow. The beginning of the end for J-Lo and Baff over there, man. Oh, no, the beginning of the end. There was a blind item, by the way, that they are, that J-Lo is currently looking for a vehicle for the two of them in filmic experience form. So we'll see.

I hope it's really too. I would love if they had any fucking balls and if they had any sense, they would make Gilee too and it would be a fucking awesome. And it would just be so good. They get like, just get someone amazing to write it, someone amazing to direct it and just like that would be incredible if they were, if they actually pursued that. Also, big thing in television for some not big for others, I think it completely. depends on your age. This is the year that Buffy, the Vampire Slayer and Dawson's Creek ended,

but the OC began. And I would, we would get together every week and we watched the OC together, mostly again for us to use our like school awards to crush up Adderals so that we could snort them, but also to watch the OC. And that was a big, that was a big thing for us this year. Yeah, the OC was a very exciting thing for a high schooler. Did you watch the movie 13? Did you connect to that movie, Jackie? No bra. No panties. No bra!

No panties! I fucking loved 13. Yeah, because this just sounds like it mirrored exactly your existence. Except my mom wasn't aware of any of the things that I was doing. So it wasn't like I was, I can't even imagine being that disrespectful to my mother. Like that's where, I mean, again, at that time period ends, still now that like I didn't view that as disrespectful. I couldn't imagine like no my mom knowing about it would be disrespectful. I was the exact same way. I was like total bad kid but like totally yeah

exactly try to present his little angel angel baby around around the the mama and the parents and just kind of like would go to my friend's house where we could fuck up and the dad didn't care essentially and then this is also the year that arrested development comes out. Really? Yes, this is the first season of Arrested Development started November 2nd, 2003. And I didn't watch Arrested Development as it came out. That was not something I found until college. I don't think anyone did.

That was kind of the story. The story of Arrested Development is as soon as it went off the air. And again, it's the power of the DVD box set. Like, nowadays, it's all streamers. The DVD box set was king at this time. Like, that made or broke your show. Chappelle Show was the same thing. Yeah.

where like it really was the DVD sales that made them massively successful millionaires and did the whole thing. When was, when was Chappelle show? Yeah, that's a great question. Did he already walked away at this point? 2003,

2003. 2003. Yeah. So the DVD box set ruled everything at this point. And it really was. And I remember Christmas being so exciting because you could go and get an entire TV show. Yeah. in your hand.

And this is again, pre-Iphone where we're like having all of something in the palm of your hand was like really novel at this time. You know, so to be able to grab a DVD box, I'd be like, I have the whole show. We're going to go watch the whole thing back to back. No commercials. That was like so crazy and novel at the time. Man, amazing that Chappelle Show and Rest Development were both the same year. And it's interesting because arrest development, when you watch it, it doesn't feel like

from it's from a different era at all. You know, it just feels totally like it's, it feels to me like it could have been made five years ago. Right. Timeless. When we're talking about many of the other items from this year, it's just like, oh, wow. Oh, family guy?

Yeah. You want to go back and see if that holds up, season one, season two. No, thank you. But this is also, this is Reno 911. This is Deep Tuck. Yeah. I remember because this is the year, I remember getting, or maybe it was the following year,

I remember getting the DVD box set of both NipTuck and Reno 911, and it was like my year was made. But, like, right, like, how funny to think of, like, the Madonna and Britney Kiss feels like it's from a completely different era, whereas the first season of Arrested Development doesn't feel that way at all, you know? Yeah, agreed. But definitely, I would say the fashion was the exact opposite, or at least hopefully, the exact opposite,

because I was reminded of the sandblast, version of denim. Remember when we all wore that like khaki, rubbed down, weird version of denim on the inside? It was like all rubbed down and the outside was kind of denim. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. And also just looking at that Vanity Fair cover with Lizzie McGuire, this was

just the era of the crop top, which is fine except that it was now I feel like we're in the era of a crop top and also alongside a robust movement for like self-love, you know, body positivity, like different representation of different bodies. Obviously it's still a long way to go. But like you will see like a beautiful woman of, you know, whatever weight wearing a crop top.

And it's like, and people will be like, hell yeah. Whereas 2003 was like, you should be wearing a crop top. You should be wearing the extremely low-rise jeans. Yeah. Give me a little bit of that little belly button peeking out. A belly button. It was a lot. Like, it was like from your pussy to your under boob is what was supposed to be showing.

And like Jessica Simpson being told constantly that she was too fat, you know, to be wearing this. Like, and, like, the fashion combined with the horrific body image stuff. Yeah. But this time is, is tough because if you are a teenage girl looking at it figuring out how you're supposed to look, it's pretty, pretty tough. Yes. But also this is the. year that Jessica Simpson did ask the question, where do buffalo wings come from? Chickens or buffaloes?

I do it. My new soapbox is that Jessica Simpson was done dirty by who was. She was done dirty. And I'm sorry, but fuck Nicolshea, man, because like he was over. Of love is blind. Of love is blind, are you sure? And I'm not saying fuck Vanessa Lechay. She does fun.

But Nick Lechette clearly doesn't want to be there. And all the love is blind segments, he's so miserable. But he's so miserable. Yeah, he doesn't want to do it at all. But, like, this is all coming, the, you're wrong about podcast did a deep dive into Jessica Simpson's, like, memoir. And it's so interesting to look back at the Jessica Simpson, Nick Lachey and Newly Wednesday thing, which was also happening around this time, because it was just like, the premise

of that show was just like, wow, she's a fucking idiot. And, like, he would just be like, wow, you're a fucking idiot. And it's like, dude, you're older than her. She was extremely sheltered before. you married her. You knew you were marrying a virgin in her early 20s who had never gotten to experience life because she became famous when she was a kid

and then put her in a reality show. Also, you know, this new genre and just like point and laugh at her. Like Jessica Simpson was done so dirty around this time. So dirty. Yeah, I mean they all kind of were, you know what I mean? Because even Christine Aguilera got chapped and she's like, I'm the sexy one. I didn't, you know what's talking about all I kiss with that? I mean, everybody got fucked over in their

own way. It's so crazy. Speaking of fucked over, this is the year that the Dixie Chicks now referred to, nay, the chicks, started the unraveling because they publicly denounced President George W. Bush. Right. Of course, we haven't even talked about the Iraq War, which also started. That was a little part of the year, I guess. I keep being like, why was 2003 like a huge year? What am I missing? Ah, yes, the invasion of Iraq. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. And so the, and if you guys remember, the Dixie Chicks publicly denounce President George W. Bush live in a concert and they lost so much. That's a fascinating story. Yeah.

I want to, like, is there a dockout about, I would love to watch, like, them deciding to do this because, like, knowing full well that they have a big fan base that supported the president. And that is such, like, talk about, you know, we talk about often of, like, the things that celebrities can. do. That's a huge movement. That is a huge thing to do. It came out in 2006. It's called Shut Up and Sing. Great.

I should watch that. Yeah, we definitely watch that. Honestly, it's hard to think of a pop culture thing intersecting with politics. Like, I guess what I mean is like not intersecting with politics, but like of pop stars making a choice to do something so political that had such important, that was so brave, honestly, and had so. such important ramifications than that. Like, that was massive. It changed the entire course of their career. And no one else, I mean, in their position,

especially because of their position as like in the country, you know, world. Like, it was just, that was something that at the time, I was just like, whatever, country's dumb. And I feel like so sad that I kind of missed that happening at the time. Because I think that they were dismissed by people who didn't, just thought like whatever they're just like dumb country singers and or i think yeah you were such great heights bump down like you just weren't right right you weren't in in the in the zone in the realm of it but like how incredible of them to just be like you know this and it was just a one-off it wasn't

i don't even think it was a particularly planned thing it was just a comment at a live concert that then got totally you know uh yeah we're ashamed the president of the united states is from texas yeah is what she said at this concert yeah and it just totally. It just goes to show how much the smallest thing could just be this huge. And again, because I think the nipslip thing is so stupid that it would have such ramifications. It's just such a different culture, right? And I think it was mainly just because everything was so controlled that you just didn't have outbursts like that. Now you have people popping off on Twitter all the time. Right. And it was a live show. And there was no, again, think about the way media

worked, there was not even really an expectation that that would have even been replayed. You know, it was just a comment that a lot. It was not like, they did that on live, unlike at an award show or something where you know you're making a statement. But even that said, they stood by it and they did, they could have been like, you know, this was a huge mistake that we said that and we don't mean it. But they stood by it. And it like you said, Jackie, it like really cost them. It didn't cost them their careers per se, but it certainly changed their career like forever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. I'm just looking. I'm trying to find it out. I think that queer eye for the straight guy came out this

year too. Oh, really? Wow. Which again, this is, I, I, I, I, I'm like, like, starting to realize more and more as we go through. Yeah, it did start. Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, the original started in 2003. Man. This was a really big, pivotal year for, you know, at least the beginning of a lot of changes. Yeah, man. Because, like, I remember when Queer Eye for the Strike Guy came out that I couldn't believe that they were allowed to have a show like that.

Yeah. Which is ridiculous. Yeah. It is weird to think of what a huge deal that show was. Yeah. And like, yeah, I remember watching that show with my mom and being, like, so happy that, like, my parents were not homophobic. Oh, yeah, my mom and I loved watching. Yeah.

Yeah. But, like, how weird to be like, wow, is this, like, okay? Like, we're watching, like, five gay men. Like, and, yeah, what a strange, what a strange thing to think about this time. What a fucking weird halftime show. No doubt. Ding and Shanaya Twain. I specifically remember that one because again, talk about being the hater years.

The bucks were playing. And so, of course, in my hometown, everyone was crazy for the Super Bowl that year. And I was like, I don't give a fuck about you. I don't give a fuck about your ball games. I hope they lose. Like, I definitely was one of those. Not even for Shania. You were not on the Shania train yet.

I don't think I even knew that she was performing the halftime. show, you know, because again, think about like the dissemination of information. Like, unless you're watching the news. Yeah. And if you're 16, how the fuck would you know who's playing the Super Bowl, you know? Right, right. Because there's commercial. I'm sure there were commercials out about it.

But still, I'm curious that I would like to sit and watch the no doubt Shania Twain sting Super Bowl have done show. I'm certainly curious about it. Man, what a year. I honestly, when we were choosing years, I was like, yeah, 2003, like, that should be interesting. Like, you know, kind of, it's not the 90s, but it's not like when we were like totally adults. But I had no idea that this year would be as fascinating and like represent. So, I mean, every year kind of when you look at it, you can see where things are changing and where splits are happening.

But it really seems like a lot of that was going on in 2003. Was crazy and love Beyonce's like solo breakout track too? or was it, did something come before that? I mean, it definitely is her with Jay-Z on the track, so definitely probably had something to do with them getting together, at least, to mark a big C change. But I just, that, I feel like that out,

that track cemented her as like, not just a member of Destiny's Child trying to be like a solo star, but like Beyonce. Yeah. It was your first solo album. Yeah. So that track

began the, you know, road forward for Beyonce becoming a Beyonce, say, which she was not at this time. Baby boy, you say on my mind and see you hear my dreams. Oh my God, Sean Paul mashup. Yeah, and then I'm Sasha Fierrester's was five years later,

which feels like a lifetime in terms of like the music, you know? Totally. Oh, yeah. This is also the year that iTunes was launched. So this is a big, like, so this is, I remember, you know, when we're all using Napster, we're all using, oh God, what was the other one?

Kaza? Kaza, yes, yes. And then iTunes comes out, which kind of streamlined the idea of music downloading, which it, like, made it more, I dare say, legitimate? Yeah, and, and, you know, the iPod was first, the first version was released in 2001.

Yeah. So it's, you know, and it takes a couple years. Yeah, I didn't have an iPod in 2003, but I probably got one by 2004. It takes a couple years for it to, like, hit everybody. I didn't, I don't think I had an iPod until I had, like, a real job in, like, New York, but that was still, what, 06,07, I think is when I got, like, I, by the time, I think my first iPod was, like, it was a color screen and you could even watch, like, episodes of the office on it.

Whoa. Yeah, I definitely had, like, one with the wheel, you know, like, I remember listening to Franz Ferdinand on it. So it must have. No, I had one with the wheel, too. I had like a true blue iPod. But yeah, I mean, completely changed the game. I remember my brother and I, like, again, I didn't get the laptop for this until college or until after college, but there were other early adopters. But the whole race to get your entire CD catalog into your laptops that you can put it all on your iPod. I mean, that was, you know, yeah, the whole way we were. I mean, and just the whole concept of that again is so silly to say out loud now. But back then it was. like, holy shit, I can have this room full of CDs, you know, this entire bookshelf. In my fucking pocket was insane.

Yeah, huge deal. Totally insane. Yeah, at this time. I miss those tech jumps. This was like probably the last big tech jump, like the iPhone and everything. It's really plateaued out since then. Yeah. I guess there's like, I guess you could say certain things about certain movements in social media,

but still, I just think like, man, everything was moving so fast around this time. know, like, when did, when did demon days come out? Such leaps and bounds. Also, I do want to say real quick, because we were talking about reality earlier, this is the first season of America's Next Top Model as well. Talk about how much a show could ruin your body image. I remember watching America's Next Top Model just being like, I'm ugly forever. Great.

No one's ever going to think I'm pretty ever, ever, never. because America's thought, because Tyra Banks was, you know, the little queen of what should be. And we all know, I mean, we read Model Land over on the Patreon. So if you ever want to check that out, it's still up on the Patreon if you want to hear what happens inside of Tyra Banks. I also, by the way, Demon Days came out in 2005, which to me is like the iPod era is Gorilla's Demon Days, right? Like, that's like, that's why I brought it up. Or also, one, two, three, four, tell me that you love him all. Like that whole time or whatever.

What's her name? This year, though, Kanye West releases Through the Wire debut single. Really? It begins in 03. Really? Beginning. Yeah. I don't think anybody who's really talking about him as strongly until a couple years later, probably.

Yeah, what year was college dropout? 2004. Wow. Yeah. So the single through the. wire was released in 03, though, at the end of 03. So the album drops the next year, but still, Kanye officially, like, enters the arena technically in 03.

Man, I feel, sometimes I really feel grief for what I think about it. I started saying something from my beautiful, dark, twisted fantasy the other day, and Giddy was like, nope, nope, not anymore. No, not in this house. I was like, no, we get to, can we keep beautiful, dark twisted fantasy and everything that came before it? And then we can lose everything else. If we can put down remix to Ignition, which also came out in 2003,

then we have to put down anything, like, all yay as well. Yeah, yeah. Also, Jay-Z releases the Black album at the end of 03. Really? Jesus Christ, what a year for music. What a year. Great, great fucking year for all types of music. I mean, just indie, pop, rap.

Also, my milkshake brings all the boys. Yeah. They're like, it's better than you. Oh, my God. 2003, dude. Damn. Yeah. And toxic.

Like, it's like, you're right all across the board. This is a great year for music. Yeah, it's wild. No matter what you're into. It's pretty great. Yeah, dude. But thank you guys for joining us on this journey through the year 2003. I brought up a lot of fun memories and I'm feeling really good about it.

And I didn't realize how big of a year it was until we started this episode. You're like a little, great. You're like a little double agent, Jackie. You were just like living two different lives. It must have felt crazy. Doing the lives before Harry Potter is so perfect. That's so funny. That is so funny.

And, you know, yeah, for me, definitely, I was just like, man, I needed this time in my life. Like, this time of life completely changed. I think I'd be living a completely different, very much sadder life if I hadn't moved into the House of Chaos and, like, found myself and, like, found. I just fine. I knew who I was, but, man, I just. needed a kick of confidence and I finally got it that year like around this time like I was yeah it's like it's like it's it's like a lot of really positive memories based on our ages from this year even though again it was like

2003 like a catastrophic year politically right because of Iraq like but I was so not even that was not on my radar yet it did not get on my radar until a year or two later and like I was just having a great fucking time listening to the district sleeps alone tonight and oh watching Joe millionaire. Oh, what a, you know, you could do that today. You could go get an episode of Joe Millionaire. Hop on such great heights and maybe, be a little 2003 today. Yeah. Yeah. Put on a little crop top. Get into it. Put on on crap talk. But feel, yeah. Shake the milkshake and call yourself fat. You know what I mean? Feel terrible about my body. Yeah, it'll be great. It's going to be awesome. To buy a cameo of Nick Lechay calling you overweight. You know, just,

Thank you guys so much for joining us. And thank you for going down in memory lane with us. We love you guys so much. And we will be back next week. And thank you for hanging with us. Thank you, MJ. Thank you, Holden. Thank you.

And you know what? Thank you to myself. Yes. Thank you. My name is Jackie Sprast. See you. See you. And you follow us on TikTok at page 7 LPN.

Come check out the weird shit that we're making. And also come hang out with me over on Twitch. TV forward slash, oh no, it's Jackie on Sundays and Tuesdays and their Wednesdays. I don't even know when I'm doing them anymore. Just, you know, things come out of my mouth. And I should stop talking now. Yep. Just a gaggle of Mr. Cooper's over here because you're hanging with us.

Oh, yeah. You can catch me Monday through Friday, Twitch. TV forward slash holdenators ho. Check out our tour dates, last podcast network.com. Patreon.com forward slash page 7 podcast. We do weekly bonus content. five bucks. So good. And I think that's it. M.J. I want us to keep thanking each other at the end of every episode. So let's keep that. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you. My name is my name is MJ and I'm

MJKL Kat on Instagram. Also, I will say in the next week, pop on over to the Patreon because we are going to do a poll over what book we're going to be reading this. You want me to continue doing Ice Planet Barbarians because we are wrapping up that book. Or if you're going to do a poll, we should move on. So get your wrecks together. Hit me up with some wrecks. You can hit me up on the Patreon. Or you could always send any kind of recommendations to, oh, no, it's Jackie's email at

gmail.com or page 7 podcast at gmail.com. You can send it to any of those places. And hit me with your recs. So we can get a good book going. I'm excited about it. All right. And thank you, Holden. And thank you, MJ.

Thank you, MJ. And thank you, Jackie. 2003. What? Bye everybody Bye everybody This show is made possible By listeners like you

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