Page 7 - REEEEEEWIIIIIND 2013

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

This week we're rewindin' back to 2013, the year Henry took over Holden's birthday and forced Jackie to watch a sea otter mating ritual, with their mother, while MJ was just havin' the best year bein' IN LOVE! (until they kicked the hornet's nest known as white, male, comedians) Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser are going on TOUR! Dates and links to tickets at lastpodcastnetwork.com Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, it's Jackie Zabrowski, and Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser are going back on tour with the release the butthole cut tour. We're coming to your town. Hold it. Where are we going? Salt Lake City, Denver, Colorado, Las Vegas. We're going to Portland, Oregon, Tacoma, Washington, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, and St. Louis, Missouri. Where can they find tickets, MJ? For tickets, go to Lastpodcastnetwork.com. What's that again? Lastpodcastnetwork.com. Hell yeah.

It's not my fault. Everybody get up. No. So many good hands. Everybody get home. Come on God. Yeah, it is. Flurred lines right there in your face.

We're not on night for this fun. We're up on night for good fun. We're up on night to get lucky. We can't stop. And what a miley year. Yeah. 2013. 10 years ago, guys.

We are doing a rewind. Welcome, everybody, to PageSum. Rewind. The year is 2013. Yes, page 7 already existed. But this was in the beginning times of page 7 when MJ and I literally knew

absolutely nothing going on with pop culture and Marcus would come in and be like, did you guys watch the Super Bowl and be like, yeah, we did. And just kind of drunk. We were just drunk for many years in the beginning of page 7. Yeah, man, it was just vibes.

We did not know about pop culture. and we didn't want to know. No, it was fun. But you and Marcus would just talk about your, like, favorite movies from the 1980s or whatever. I feel like that was, like, probably 60%, and then 40% was us talking about whatever thing had just happened, like the Super Bowl or the VMAs.

And as I look back at 2013, I'm like, damn, it was a great, there was a bunch of great music happening. It was a great year for pop culture. Miley was having a very hard time, I think, personally and publicly. but making some absolute bangers. Yeah. Miley was killing it.

You also, this was Lord coming out with Royals this year as well. Just a big, it's like kind of honestly looking at it. Like I do think pop went through, like pop music went through a bit of a changeover, a bit of a glam up or somebody even say down because Royals was this very anti-poppy kind of bizarre, different type of thing. It was almost like indie music was starting to invade pop music in this cross section that hadn't quite happened yet. And get lucky, blurred lines even had this like weird, interesting, different kind of vibe. You know, you still had pop anthems like Roar, but Roar was like almost a last bastion with Katie Perry's Roar was like a last bastion, I think,

of that kind of big pop song. And we were moving into this like shitty chain smoker's future we were all destined to be a part of, I guess, is what I would describe it. But there's really good stuff in there. This is also the heyday of Wagon Wheel. This is like the beginning. Remember when Wagon Wheel was played at literally every place that you walked into? And just like, I was obsessed with Wagon Wheel.

I mean, how could you not be? Because especially living in New York, again, we've talked about this many times. When there are the hit songs, you hear them in every bodega, in every cab that you're in, every street that you walk down, you hear the songs, like the same like 10 songs over and over and over again. And if you weren't into Wagon Wheel, you were going to be having a very bad experience.

Can you, I hate to put you on the spot, but could you refresh my memory? Rock me, Mama, like a wagon wheel. Rock me and Mama anyway. Yeah, yeah, that one. Mom rock me. Yes. That truly, oh my lord, within seconds, it is 2013 again. I totally forgot about that song.

It's Darius Rucker from Hootie and the Blowfish? No. No, it's, oh, fuck their faces. When I Google Wagon Wheel, a version from Darius Rucker comes up. Old Crow Medicine Show. Old Crow Medicine Show, yeah, is Wagon Wheel. So Darius Rucker from Hootie and the Blowfish, just covering Wagon Wheel. Yep, just covered it.

And I think that's kind of what launched it into literally every single dirt baggy dude on the street with an acoustic guitar playing it for quarters and then like hitting on your friend, you know, whatever. Got you, got you. Okay. How did you feel about this version of Tay? Because this was, I knew you were trouble when you walked in.

How do you feel about that version of Tate? I don't know what album that is. Is that before you were a T-Hart? That's gonna be red. Well, what year did Taylor Swift? Taylor. She's on the 2013 list with with red, her red tour. Came out in 2012. So we're steeped

well in. This is like a transit, maybe not a transition year. But yeah, kind of a transition year. She's going to put out 1989. That comes out. So this is definitely like pre, I'm into her at all. Because it's not to like, I see the video for blank space, I think, where I go like, do I like this? No, you do. don't. No, you don't Holden. You like the stooges. You like

Velvet Underground. You like all those cool bands. Don't let them change you. You know, and that's that. But I do remember that, you know, this album has, we're never getting back together. And I do remember like admiring or respecting the, you know, the poppiness of that song as well. She's way out of my radar still. But this is her fully transitioned. So you'll appreciate this, MJ. She fully transitioned from country music to pop music. With red. I do appreciate that.

Wow. So, you know, she's got it doing the thing, too. You know what I mean? She's doing that thing. Very similar. She's a real Angela Bassett. Real Angela Bassett did the thing.

Yeah, this was, this is... So first of all, I have to front this episode by saying that I, to me, 2013 feels like it was yesterday. Like I remember this year very well. It was like I was already with Gideon. Like in many, I mean, my life has changed so much since then. It was 10 years ago. But in many ways, it really just feels like a few years ago.

Like naming all of these things, I'm like, oh yeah, that was just a few years ago when Beyonce, you know, did the Super Bowl halftime show. Yeah. It feels so within reach. And for music, it was like, I think when we did either 2008 or 2009, we talked about how it was this like a cent. like that was us like this ascendant incredible pop time for pop music and that was when we got into pop music from being like indie haters, you know, around Kanye and Rihanna and all that, the Beyonce of like 2008. And then I feel like 2013 was just like a peak year for really, really, really good, you know, pop music. But then also it was a really long time ago and when you

look at the moments that were happening in 2013, it feels like from a totally different era. Yes, it really does. Now, I was talking about this before we started recording that this is one of my lost years, old 2013. I had to do the math and I was like, how old was I? Okay, I was like 25, 26. Oh, yeah. I don't remember like I was looking at the movies. I will, I will say Banner horrible movie year. We will get into that. All right, cool. But, I wasn't missing out on a lot. I was just, I think that this was just one of my, outside of like hearing all of these,

like all of these songs in bars, I was just like live in my mid-20s, fuck up, degenerate, alcoholic life. And just kind of bopping through life, just being like, hey, blackout every night. But what is, it's fine. I'm in my prime. I think there was a lot of times during this year,

where I would meet you at the creek and you were like, it's all right, my tab is still open from last night when I forgot to close it. So why don't I just get this round because the card is still behind the bar. You know, that was kind of, that was the, that was our life.

It was a lot of like show up for roundtable and never leave the creek until it closes, show up for page seven and just not leave. You know, you and I going out, we used to hang out in the backyard and just drink gin tonics and talk for hours. And I would just chain smoke and I'm not talking about the band. And yeah, that was, you know, in the beauty of the heyday of having a bar where everybody

knows your name because I could just leave the tab there and they wouldn't like close it out and charge me crazy extra. They'd be like, ah, she's going to be here tomorrow. In a couple of hours, she'll be back. She'll be back and she'll be drinking starting at 2 p.m. so it's fine. Yeah. Yeah, this is such a funny last year. I'm thinking this might be the year because it's, Beyonce did the Super Bowl, right?

And I keep trying to place this. I'm like, I feel like even though this was pre-major pop lover era Holden, I still think like I didn't see it. And I think this might have been that awful year where I performed a Super Bowl. I performed a gig that was set during the Super Bowl for no one. I remember. I remember. You performed for me as Skeleton Dan.

Do you remember? You were in the show so I don't count it. There was one old man on a couch. It was the most shittily produced. He was like, oh yeah,

there's TVs in the bar so we'll be able to watch the game. I was like, okay, good. At least there's TVs in the bar, but they were like TVs that were hooked up to some shitty camera

that were like security TVs. And they didn't actually have TV. Was this that year? That was this year because I remember that I was hammered at that bar and I remember that three doors down, not

the band again, there was another bar that was showing the Super Bowl. So I remember Kissel and I kept going over to that because Kissel was hosting that show and we went over because he wanted to watch the game and I

caught the halftime show at the bar three doors down. Unbelievable. And it was a really good game and obviously one of the best half-time specials ever and I missed it for this is honestly like the beginning of me being like I don't just do every gig I'm done doing that it was like I think that gig was the gig where I went I don't just do every gig because I want it that much I don't do that anymore I'm so sick of giving my life up my my

you know what I mean like I'm so sick of like well this is the beginning of your 30s right that's a big part of a transitional time for all of us in terms of our personal growth a few years still coming like my big changeover that needed to happen started in 2016. I had like a miserable 2016 felt totally just just alienated from everybody like my career going nowhere, just like sitting in my shitty job waiting for the first someone to call me up and give me my big chance and just like miserable. And so it was like a few years leading up. This 2013 was like the beginning of the end. It's everything I see sort of like reminds me of. of like the city at night.

Yeah, the same. And kind of in a depressing way. And yeah, like in a way of like, how much longer am I going to keep doing, like, going to these gigs? Oh, that's so interesting. With three people in them. You know what I mean? And then, like, literally watching, I think Last Podcast is really starting to take the

fuck off. So you're like, and I just remember that Super Bowl gig, I mean, still leaves a mark on me. We also recently talked about. I wonder if it was even the same year. I wonder if it was the year of just all terrible gigs. It might have been a different year. But we talked about on stream last Friday, that gig where Ed poured the beer on the guy's head and it was just such a bad gig.

And again, that was like murder fist finally meeting our match being like, we can't just do any gig. And it's not just going to work out. Like, we had a really good run where we'd end up getting booked on like a horrible gig. We'd get there, be like, this is awful. There's no way we're going to get out of this alive. And then it ended up being like a lot of fun. And then we go, yeah, it always just kind of works out.

And I think this was the year where like the facade started to show, like the cracks started to show and the facade like that where it's like maybe we don't just do every gig and like maybe I'm getting a little too old. Getting too old for one person while like a really good Super Bowl is happening for no reason. Like why have I did? What am I prove? Who am I proven this to? This means this is. That was also around the time we probably stopped doing New Year's Eve shows. Maybe.

We did New Year's Eve shows forever. And then you realize like, oh, your whole New Year's Eve is shot. You always end up missing midnight because Murder Fest would always be last. Right. And then everyone would kind of like do the countdown as you're in the middle of a sketch on stage. And then you just be like, what are we doing here? Why are we doing this? Why can't we just enjoy New Year's Eve?

Yeah. It was definitely that kind of vibe. I think we're just kind of getting at that point. Yeah, I'm getting to do all for this shit. It was sort of like that was the vibe a lot of 2013. And I think you're right, it's kind of funny talking about how you're like, wow, we were like really missing out on like what was actually going on in the world. And I think it was because it was a lot of that, you know, but through. But there was also a lot of what does the fox say?

Okay, great. And at the beginning of memes. There was a lot of internet humor that also was so alienating me to the point where I was like, I don't think I get what comedy is more. Because I think one of the big things that made me go, ho-ho-ha, was this was the year of Vine. And everybody learned how to make these like 10 seconds. And I was like, this is the format now. I remember coming into it being like, oh, you can't just make like a five-minute sketch. No one will watch that.

It has to be like three minutes or less. And then cut to Vine. It's like, it's got to be 10 seconds. What? What do you mean? How do I establish character and like make something reach a climax and heighten and do anything in 10 seconds, you maniacs? This was such a, especially for people who were making things during this time. Like, and before, I, I completely identify with that because my brother and I made our web series in like 2009, I think.

Because everyone had a web series. Mine was huffing it. We've got girls are roommates. We had John of Monica got one. And our, yeah, it was like, okay, it's going to be a YouTube video. It needs to be under like six minutes, you know? And it's so funny to think back on that time now because then, of course, right, Vine comes in. And I think it was, yeah, seven. seconds or whatever. And so then, and now, of course, I think TikTok is, has been profoundly shaped by Vine, right? Oh, yeah. TikTok is the descendant of Vine. Right. You know, I think like Vine people either funneled over into TikTok or they now are live streamers. Right. You know, and that's kind of the funneling path that happened. Because with Vine going away, you know, they all have to scramble, like cockroaches when the lights come on. They all have to scramble to the next fucking app

and exploit it to try to get free shit from some skincare company or something. You know what I mean? And what a huge change? Like the way that TikTok just feels like a completely different medium, you know, than making a, I mean, our, you know, our web series, it was like an edited thing. It was like it took, you know, days to shoot, weeks to edit, you know,

and to think about going from that and that was how people were making, you know, self-producing. stuff on YouTube in 2009, 2010, to then in 2013 when it was, when Vine was the thing and you have the rise of the kind of like, you know, content from people who weren't necessarily skilled with all of the like production aspect. In some ways, I think is great, right? Like, there was like the, like the kid who said, you know, like freaking bats or whatever. Like a lot of those vines were really, really funny. And I think a lot of the stuff like that on TikTok, that's just like super, super, super short form actually is an incredible skill.

It's just like that's where I feel like I got off the track and I was like, this is pop culture. This part of pop culture is now something that I will never be on the same track as with younger people than me. You know, it just, I exited. That was a dividing point. Yeah. I'm not, I was supposed to say, I'm sad that Hurricane Sandy was in 2012.

It was at the end of 2012 because I looked this up because I remember that's when I started making my first vines was during hurricane. Oh, really? Okay. Yes, because we were making our own. We were trying to make a horror movie done through vines, but that was also because we didn't have power for like two days. So we were just keeping ourselves drunk and occupied.

But again, different years. But that was, so I met Gideon in 2012. And for me, like my life, when I look back on it, it kind of was like bisected in late. 2011 because like my like moment of political awakening was occupy wall street which yeah so so 2011 and 2012 was this like massive massive transformational year for me um and then and 2013 very differently than holden and it sounds like Jackie as well i was just like really happy whoa you know i was in love you know and i had like met i mean my you know 2012 i met in addition to being like internally

incredibly moved by like by Occupy. I just felt like I was incredibly engaged. I made this group of friends that are still at Occupy that are still my best friends to this day. And I was in love. And I was like teaching still teaching kids, you know, in a job that I loved. And I just like, I was just like really, really, really happy at this time. Wait, forgive me if you already said this was Occupy 2013.

No, Occupy was late 2011 going kind of through. It started late 2011. but it went through 2012. Gideon and I met at a trial in the summer of 2012. And Jackie, when was Super Sad Summer? Did we establish this? Super Sad Summer was two years before this. Okay, so I'm probably with Lexi at this point.

Uh-oh, he doesn't know. To Lexi, he doesn't know if he was with her not. Or is it the other Lexi? Don't you have another Lexi when you were listening on the list of many women? I think I'm definitely with. No, I'm not with other Lexi. the other Lexi was college. I'm definitely with Lexi at this point.

I think that was... Interesting. Part of it was like... But this was such a hard setup. If you know anything about New York City, she lived way out in Astoria, and she was like kind of a long walk from the train, too. It was like the last stop on the train in Astoria.

And it was like a... Several blocks walk. She was like out there, too. And I just remember it was like this epic journey to just see my girlfriend on the weekend. Like, I mean, to the point where I'd be like, I'm out there this weekend kind of thing. It's like you're weirdly in a long distance relationship.

Like, I'm heading out there this weekend. I'll just be out there for the weekend. I'll just bring enough stuff and just not come home till Sunday, you know, because it's like that far away. I had a similar thing because I lived in Bushwick and this is back, this is one of the many unhappy years of like, why are we still together when we just kept getting back together for no reason? Yes, we were the Ross and Rachel of our friend group, I guess.

that Doug lived in Long Island City and I lived in Bushwick, but this is when I lived in the place that had eight flights of stairs up and I remember that there would be times that I would be so drunk that I would give up halfway up and just kind of like sit on the stairs

and just kind of like dizzily like have my head against the wall. Yeah, that was the place of the rooftop parties and stuff, right? The rooftop parties. That was such a horrible fucking climb. Horrible place. Yeah.

It was eight flights of stairs. The place was kind of cool. Like, if the place didn't, if you didn't have someone living in that nook, now it's just like more, if that was like... We had a two bedroom apartment that we had three separate people living in

that we had created, there was a nook that we turned into another room. Oh yeah, I live in a nook. Oh, yeah, I loved my nook. And it was the classic, like, in order to get to the roof, which was like a whole other room on the apartment. It was like a whole established space.

You had to go through that nook. So that poor person, yeah, I've never been that, I couldn't imagine it, honestly. I've never been that person who had like the middle room in the railroad apartment or that nook or whatever, like, where somebody had to like walk through it all the time. Yeah. Just so I could save like $200 on rent a month or something. Like, you know what I mean?

Listen, a nook comes in clutch. I moved into my Nook in 2010 when I was exiting a relationship and my dear friends were like, I mean, we got a hallway and I was like, perfect. And so I moved into the hallway. Nook live. My one friend had to walk through my room every time to get to his room. And, you know, my other friend built me a loft bed. And I was like, bruh, my loft bed is above your head.

You come through whatever you want. So I had no privacy. And it was fun. That was just my life. And I was very, I mean, I don't think I was happy in an active way. But, you know, a lot of good memories. Whereas in 2013, I was like, this is just so, I was like, I am really happy. But also, I think because I had just, it was like a time.

Okay, I want to say that I heard the word woke, maybe for the first time this year, you know? No way. No way. As it was used that way. I really had in here woke until like two years ago at the earliest. I might be wrong about it being as early as 2013, but it was definitely a time, especially post-occupy. I mean, I think the formal, formally the movement calling, the movement for Black Lives being called Black Lives Matter, I don't think started until 2014. But I just, I just, 2013 felt to me like there was a time of like a lot of energy around coming out of Occupy and kind of, you know, moving towards all these other future social movements that were emerging.

Like Black Lives Matter definitely being one of them. And there was just like so much, I was very excited to like engage with all these things in like a political way, much of which was very meaningful, but also looking back in retrospect, probably a lot of it was like a little bit for me, coming from me was a little bit insufferable, you know? I was just like, I was so. And also wrapped up in love. You're trying to engage in quite a few things. You are so in love. So you're like, this big strong man's going to help me fight them. right in the street.

But, like, Lourdes, great example, right? Bird Lines was a song that came out in 2013. And at first everyone was just like, this is a jam. And then everyone was like, actually, this song is... Very problematic. It took a few years. It just came and went. And then a couple years later, we were like,

oh, that's a weird song to come out. Yeah. I mean, and paired with a song called Get Lucky, which at least is like that song still holds up. I actually really have come back to that album as in general lately. and like really like it a lot. But, you know, it still was like just a horny dog summer in terms of music vibes. Yeah.

And there was, I think it was just like, yeah, it was like a like hypercharged and like confusing time in terms of like how to engage with pop culture and like have decent politics. Because this was a time when we were starting to, there was a lot of there was a lot of there was also the time of the of the rape joke, massive rape joke controversy and comedy. Like this was a time when people were... Oh, I feel like it begins, actually. So that means the beginning of the like culture war centered around stand-up comedy started this year in this weird way that has, man, has persisted through all this time. In fact, I feel like 2023 is the quietest. It's been since 2013 in a decade when it comes to Congress. Because I think everybody's just exhausted.

It's like, what more is there to say, dude? What more can you say in your podcast about how you can. can't say anything anymore. Yes. This was, yes, at 2013 was very much, I think the, the, the, the thing that I wrote, which, which, you know, I would not write again because even though I stand by what I said, it was just not, but I wrote something about rape jokes and comedy, and I was like, what if we didn't?

That did not go well. And, and, and, but it was at the time, it was like, there was this, again, this energy to try to like engage with pop culture and be like, let's talk about some like bigger structural things here. But there was a huge reaction against that. And I think that that was part of like the part of what was going on with

pop culture where it was like, oh, there's blurred lines, but blurred lines is rapy. Like, ah, there's, you know, whatever. There's all this good comedy. Oh, but let's also like to talk critically about some comedy. And that felt very new in 2013. And you're right. Holden.

Now, 10 years later, it feels like I mean, there are still people surely plenty of comedians out there who are like, oh, I can't say anything anymore but it does feel like we have now moved like an entire life cycle past that particular moment. Just the fact that they thought that blurred lines was fine. Like that like even when at first so

it was fairly like out the gate even though it was like everywhere like wildfire but it was fairly soon that it was being referred to as a rape song and then it almost tripled down when it released the music video that was also very uncomfortable to watch. And then another moment this year was Robin Thick and Miley Cyrus on stage together,

which was extremely uncomfortable. And she was obviously, but again, to show you how much I think actual progress has been made since 2013, I think that now, maybe I'm wrong, but I think that now people would be sooner to look at Miley Cyrus or a young woman in her early 20s having like,

a real hard time and be like, and look at that with more compassion. Whereas back in 2013, it was still just like, look at this. Look at this. Yes. Yes. And I think that as much as much as there was a lot of growing pains to the process that I think was emerging in 2013 of being like, let's talk about pop culture in a way that connects to sexism and feminism and racism and all these things. I think that one of the results of one of the good results of that now in 2023 is yeah, like don't point and laugh at like a 22 year old woman who's like obviously having like a public mental health crisis. And same same. We've talked about that happening with Brittany and stuff. Whereas in 2013 it was still, the norm was still much. I think we were still closer to

the like point and laugh, Brittany style than than we are now, which is like, let's say. actually be kind of thoughtful about this, you know? Uh-huh. Yes, completely. Yeah, Miley, I feel like Miley, I wanted to talk about, I feel like Miley was a symbol for you, Jackie, or something. I don't want to say like, not like, what do you call it? Because you can't say spirit animal anymore.

But it was kind of like a representation of you, I feel like, at that time. I mean, I loved Miley at this time, especially in the Wrecking Ball music video. And that was such a big thing too, because like, that was such an interesting part of her trying to do something like that music video, but naked on the cannonball, was supposed to be very artistic. But again, like you were just saying, MJ, I think that everyone was seeing Miley Cyrus through such a specific lens at this time that it was just like, oh, of course she's getting naked on a wrecking ball. Yeah. Of course she is because she has to be edgy. She has to do it.

But like, I think that it was also her being like, no, I'm putting my heart and my soul into this. And I want to be nude. I want like, this is like, this is me fully. And I still feel like she was just like, swat. I mean, still a huge pop star. But like, just the way in which we talked about her is very different than how we would ever speak about someone now. Absolutely. Was this also the year that Beyonce put the word feminist up on stage?

And it was like a huge deal. I'm looking this up. She did release her self-titled, like, visual album. that this year, this was a huge year for Beyonce. This was like, third coming, fourth coming for her. I feel like she, because Super Bowl released that visual.

That visual album, I feel like cemented her as like the goat, essentially, like modern pop. That was in 2014. 2014. But there you go. Like, that is such a great little example of, like, how there was these bigger, these, like, you know, a feminist engagement with pop culture.

which of course has always, there's always been feminist engagement with pop culture, but this was the first time, this was around the time that we were seeing those things that kind of like, you know, cultural studies, feminist, like discourse stuff, enter the pop realm. And that's what leads to the idea of woke, like, the word woke and be like, well, you know, let's, when we talk about things, like, let's talk about them in a way that is like, you know, where we awaken ourselves to thinking about these bigger, you know, ideas. and structures of oppression and all that stuff. And so now in 2013, looking back at, you know, Beyonce standing in front of the word feminist is like, it feels so heavy-handed. But at that time, it was like, oh, my God, Beyonce identified as a feminist. That was still very, very new in 2013, which is so strange because on the one hand, it feels like yesterday. And on the other hand, it feels like a very long time ago. And it's very strange to think that, you know, a pop star saying that they were feminists. feminist still hadn't, a pop star of her, you know, caliber saying that they were feminist still

hadn't happened yet in 2013. Yeah, but up until that point, it was like two women made out on stage. How crazy. Go boing, go boing, go boing. Yeah. And there was still, you know, articles. There was still, every year, there would be an article by like Christopher Hitchens or whatever that was like, are women funny? Like, that was still where the discourse was around 2010, 2011. Oh, yeah, man. And, you know, so it really was. A lot has a lot of like the frameworks for how we think about things. Now it's like anything that's like, you know, quote unquote woke feels like so kind of exhausting. Like, you know, but at the time, none of this shit was really happening in the in the hyper pop realm, you know?

It was it felt more like college discussions. Yes, because like, and things like I'm reading this interview with Miley Cyrus talking about the 2013 VMAs and her. talking about how like she was so insecure that she had four pairs of tights on just in that twerking like in that outfit that she was wearing and that after it she was so publicly shamed that she wouldn't wear shorts she wouldn't wear bikinis after it for years because of how she was treated after and how she felt about herself after the BMAs which wow think of how much we have grown in 10 years of course we're not all the way there yet, but we're in such a better place of how we talk about people handling their

mental health that we used to be. It's so insane. Yeah, for sure. Wow. It was a very, very different. That was kind of the end. Like we did what, what do we do? 2008 rewind, right? In the past, I believe. Yeah. Yes. And that was like the beginning of the end. And this was like kind of, I think, the last of that kind of era of, you know, that kind of came about from Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan and all the, they're like the party girl era of mental breakdowns that happened. That like the party girl era started a few years before that. The mental breakdown started around 2008. And then by 2013, I think we looked to Miley's new.

We're really she was just, in hindsight, you're like, oh, she was just starting a new era. And this is her like party girl, like, I'm an adult now era. Yeah, right. It was her, I'm not Hannah Montana. Yeah, era. And she was just like leaning into that and like making that work. And it did at times it did seem a little desperate. But it was still like working the era.

She was just doing the thing. She was being Angela Bassett up there just fucking making it happen. You know, so I felt very alienated from my own society at this time. This is what I'm catching from everything I've looked at. First of all, number 52 on this BuzzFeed list, New Yorkers were lighted up and a huge Lides to buy cronuts. And man, did I give two or 18,000 flying fucks about standing in line for some cronuts? And all you crazy people is stand in a weird line just to eat a couple of tiny cupcakes.

What's going on there? What's the problem? Are you not held enough as a kid? Like, what happened? I just need to know. I think I have an understanding. This is not helping me, Holden, understanding why you felt so alienated during this time. We all know how Holden hates internet.

language. Oh my God. Following orders. Fucking flash dances. This was the era of the flash dance. Blasheavs. Oh my. The Harlem shake.

And all the Harlem Shake. This was taking command dancing to like the next horrific level. This was so egregious. It was just, I feel like 2013 was an extremely online year. Yes. Like Twitter was. This was the goal, probably about. This is not why I'm happy, but it was why I was happy.

But it was a golden age of Twitter. I would go onto Twitter and I would be talking with, like, writers and thinkers I admired and my friends. And there was like really good shit being written. I fucking loved Twitter in 2013. I felt like there were so many interesting things happening. And Holden, I understand why for you, everything felt so online. Yeah.

That it probably, for somebody like you, you just felt like there was all these in jokes. And if you're not on Twitter, you're like, why is everybody doing this reference, you know? And like it was like so, it was very easy to feel left out of it if you weren't in it. It's all, yeah, it's all about jumping on the next trend and doing the dance. I mean, this is like pre-Tick-Tac, learning dances. Like, I guess Gangnam style wasn't this year, but it was right around it, right? So it was like, you know. I think it was the year before.

It was right before. And then what does the Fox say was like the next? What do the Fox Day is fucking dumb? And it's stupid and it's lame and everybody who. liked it and thought it was funny and cute is an fucking idiot. I'm sorry. I just, I hate that shit. It's so internet cute.

It was the birth of internet cute cute. I hate internet cute culture. I hate when people talk about doing all of the things and adulting and all this stuff and they're like in their little coffee shop and that fucking shitty music's playing the do do do do do do do and they're doing some

yeah, Hadookining to everybody like this picture in number 54 in this BuzzFeed list. Hadookening was a huge craze. And it's a guy like throwing his fist down the ground and these idiots circling around him, like jumping back as if it's like creating some kind of, you know, AEOE attack or whatever. Little fun things that people were doing on the internet and raging you. I wanted them to all fucking, I don't want to say violence right now.

But just imagine what you might think I'd want them all to do. It would be a very violent thing I'd want them all to do to themselves. have happened to them. And that's just the way, that's just how I work. And maybe, maybe I'm just grumpers on a Wednesday morning, but I'm pretty curious on a Wednesday morning. I'm pretty sure. I'm having, I'm having, you know what, because this is putting me in my awful real estate insurance office, just seeing, like, trying to figure out, like, why can I get hired to do comedy? It's all I want to do. I've been working so hard. And then just seeing stuff like this, be popular and I'm just like how I can't do

I'll never do this this is never going to be the thing I'll do do you want to see me write a funny thing about how a man explodes because I'll do that nobody wants it okay nobody wants it I don't think the way the internet worked at this time because the next one on the list is Bat Kid remember the way the internet worked at that time I mean you can't hate on a kid with leukemia Bad kid was so cute they let him they let this little boy be like

Batman for the whole city of San Francisco go. That's cute because he's a child. That's why he's five years old. He's not a grown adult pretending to haduking somebody and thinking it's like the most brilliant thing ever because you're wearing office clothes and you work in a shitty office. I'm sorry. It's lame. We're wearing a fox costume.

You're a grown man going, you know, is what the fuck. I just like can't with it. I can't. And don't you think that it was just a different, like there was more collective experiences. What I liked about this time on the internet was that it felt like every day there was like one or two big collective experiences that happened.

So it was like today we're all talking about Bat Kid. You know, today we're all talking about Montiteo. You know, everyone's playing Candy Crush. Like it felt we were obviously past the monoculture of the late 90s that we've talked about a lot when there was not anything except whatever was in the movie theaters and whatever was on MTV or whatever. It was like we were creating our own monoculture. We were so used to having a monoculture. So we would like force the monoculture.

Yes. So the internet. I think at its best felt sometimes like, oh, yeah, everyone's talking about Bat Kid. Everyone's playing Candy Crush, and it felt like there was much more collective experiences. Whereas now the Internet feels so, like, fractured. There's not like one or two things that happen on Twitter in a day that everybody's talking about. You know, it's just like... You have to know about everything all the time.

And so that, I think, just leads people to just disengage completely. Whereas I think 2013 was a time where a lot of people were starting to engage for the first time. and yeah I I I because I wasn't happy and in love I'm talking about this with like like it was all good I don't actually know if it was good maybe it was bad you know but it was a very like Twitter was this member like what Twitter was to occupy right like like and the you know the year of the protests you know the global protests in 2011 it was this very new it was existed by by 2008 or 2009 but like it was it was it was newly this collective real time process. And in 2013, it still felt like that. The internet did eventually at some point at points kind of bite you back in this engagement. Like wasn't, and you said you wrote that article about rape culture this year. Was all of that happening in 2013 or like did that, right? So there is, there is.

You got bit. You got bit hard. I got bit hard. And yeah, that was, it was. Because I'm like not engaging. I'm so alienated. I don't even know what. I'm like, here's a vine of me.

Like, you know. I don't, you know what I mean? I had no clue how to, how to, and I still don't understand how to improperly engage in Twitter. You know what I mean? Like I don't follow. I don't think the right people. You know, it's chaos on my phone. Yeah.

No, it was, so, right. I wrote something in 2013 called the Rape Joke Double Standard. And, and it was not a good time for me on Twitter. It was, it was rough. And like I said, I actually would not do it again because I just think that the way I did it, I just, I kind of had, I thought that it was. MJ, you were doing it genuinely. Right. You were doing it earnestly.

Yes, to start a conversation. And I will say you did start a conversation. You were actually doing it like in the ways that everyone does it, especially now more than ever, like cynically just for engagement because they're building something. You were just like actually being a part of something. Yeah. And interestingly enough, the biggest accusation. against me was that I was just doing it for, you know, that you're just doing this for the click. So this is totally the beginning of like, this is clickbait. Yes. Which was very frustrating because of course

there was clickbait in 2013. It was, you know, the internet was taking over our lives. But also, this was a time where you actually could still like write something that people would read, you know, which is just not really the case now. And yeah. So it was like definitely, I think this was like, there was like, by this time we had like, you know, call out culture and we had pylons. And like we had, you know, I was just part under, got under a massive Twitter pylons. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to like bring you down to my level here right now. Okay.

I just, I was just very curious, the timeline because. Yeah. You're talking about it very idealistically, but I understand. But like everybody has this process with it, right? It like begins beautifully. And then you have like hard times and then you pull out of it. Because I even would say that was like my experience just when I started streaming on Twitch. It like started as this earnest genuine experience.

And then kind of it showed the darker side of itself like a couple years in when it comes to like what it is to build a community. And then like communities changed and formats changed. And now you still and get, you know, I mean, obviously it didn't bite you back so hard because you still are very engaged on Twitter, you know? Yeah. I think actually what. this particular experience for me did was I disengaged from comedy.

Yeah. Because it felt like a really hostile time to be, like, you know, I, like I said earlier in the episode, I was like really excited. And again, big chance that part of it was pretty insufferable. But I was like, oh, my God, like, let's all talk about these big things. And that just felt very unwelcome. and when I wrote this thing, a lot of comedians who I thought

kind of would have my back didn't. And so I like very, very much disengaged from comedy during this time. Yeah, there was all that line drawing and shit too where people were like all of a sudden not chiboy and you were like, and there was a lot. And I was kind of watching all of that from a distance. And we also, it is important to note politically

like Obama's sworn in for his second term. Right. Right. In 2013. Yeah, Michael Douglas thinks that he got oral cancer from giving oral to his wife. Yes, I remember that. Maybe that led to their separation for a while. That was very political.

That was very big admission. I was like, wait, what? How did that have anything to do? That's great. Yo, yo, I have to bring it up right now because it's such an important cultural touchstone of this year, and I can't believe we haven't talked about it yet. this year is the year the red wedding episode dropped. Yes.

For Game of Thrones. This was essentially... Talk about a collective experience, right? And when that happened, yeah, that was... And again, talking about the last little bits of a monoculture. Well, that and this was... That's why thank God for things like the slap. Yeah.

We all talk about one thing finally for once. So we said, Jackie... This is also when the year that Breaking Bad ends. Oh. So this was like two separate experiences. I remember watching the last season of Breaking Bad felt like it was. was like almost a really cool experience because I felt like because like you Holden I was very

separate from what was actually going on in the world but watching breaking bad in that final season and watching the red wedding episode I felt like brought me back into culture for a while and I'm like oh I'm a part of the world I exist I matter and then um I didn't and that was that's all that I have. Well, and that was where we were tapped in. And again, this fully puts me into this year now. Like, it fully inserts me. There's two things I think of.

Watching the Red Wedding at Adams Place with a room full of people. And one of those people was only watching the show and not reading the books. And they had the best, like, so we all knew what was going to go down. Oh, really? Yeah, dude. John Pack. John Pack, hadn't seen it. So he was like blown away.

We were all blown away too for, you know, but we knew it was coming. And again, definitely watching Breaking Bad finale at Lexi's place out in the middle of fucking nowhere, in my mind at least, out in Queens. And then the other thing is watching, this is such a visceral memory of mine, Jackie. Being in your kitchen in that apartment just down the street from the creek in the cave, probably post roundtable or maybe at a cowman rehearsal. and we're both smoking cigarettes and you're playing Candy Crush and we're listening to get lucky and blurred lines on the radio.

That sounds about right. That is such a visceral memory of mine. Like smelling the smoke or, you know, in the weed smoke and the Candy Crush because I remember so Candy Crush was a huge, huge, weirdly huge deal because everybody was playing it. Lexi played it for years and years after. It was one of the first. massively popular, like your mom's even playing it free to play. Loved it.

Mobile games. And this really was like a big heyday for free to play on mobile because also Flappy Bird is on this list of coming out of just like huge bangor hit. Everyone's playing at the same time like free to play mobile games. It wasn't like the beginning of that by far. Angry Birds was a little earlier. Angry Birds was a little before. And people were, yes, Angry Birds was a huge cultural thing.

but there was something about Candy Crush that was like, we're all just drones in this machine of others' makings, and we're all just going to, like, get in line and play our Candy Crush, you know. And nowadays it's like Wordle was the last big one. But, yeah, and again, it's like, I think it is scrambling for monoculture. Yeah. And getting that in, I love, I feel like there needs to be a monoculture word counter when we do these rewinds. but it is so in the front of my head,

like how we all clung on to one thing at once is just so much more Wild Westy than it was before when we had just three TV stations and two to three newspapers to choose from, physical hard copy newspapers to choose from, and like that was it. I don't know what's better. I mean, I think it made comedy fucking worse.

might have made like political discussions a lot better actually, even though they're challenging and hard. And now your dad's like shooting Bud Lights with a Uzi. Yeah, that's... I was really optimistic at this time about the potential of... Cut two, Kada Rock just blasted a case of... Oh my God. I wish I could just like show you...

I wish I could time travel in 2013 be like, here's like five things happening in 2023. And just show you like, wise Kid Rock shooting a... I know. Oh, my God. Why is he, why is this out? Like, why is this going on?

It's like, it's, well, it's because your Twitter, like, really took off. Like, right. I think in 2013, I would have said that I was, maybe probably before I published that article about rape jokes, I would have said I was really optimistic about the way that, especially Twitter, but also just the possibilities for the internet to, like, to bring people together for those collective experience. but also specifically to advance, you know, more progressive thinking. And like, this was a time, if you go back and look like even around the rape jokes controversy, there are so many articles at this time that are like, you know, the limits of like

the white male straight comedian, which now feels like very, very kind of tired to hear all those descriptors. But in 2013, it was new to like name those descriptors. Again, not new like nobody had ever done it before, but new in pop culture conversations, right? And so it was like we're naming these identities for the first time. We're talking about intersectionality. We're talking about privilege. You know, I feel like this was the first, this was kind of like the time that people first started hearing.

Like, what? I'm a white boy. I don't have privilege. I grew up poorer. And like it leads to these interesting and good and I think often productive conversations at the same time. I think that it's, and we can see this especially in retrospect. It leads to the reaction, the reaction against it and the defensiveness, right? Yes, the reaction.

And I think that defensiveness, and it's my feeling that that defensiveness and that that is what I saw in the lead up to the Trump election. Totally. Totally. It was, people got scared that people were coming for them and their identity. Totally. And like, and they freaked out. And they got freaked out. And they were like, well, this asshole's crazy. He'll fuck them all up.

And I think that even if we just stick to the comedy realm, which again, I've been pretty actively disengaged from it since 2013. But like, you know, I think that around this time you start to see kind of. for comedians especially, you have, you either take the path of like, okay, yeah, it seems like we're trying to not like be sexist or misogynist or whatever. Maybe I got to try to like update myself a bit and I got to swim in these waters or I go the other way and I swim in the reactionary waters and I say, you can't, you can take my rape jokes over my dead body and I'm going to keep saying, you know, racist things. I'm going to keep saying sexist things or whatever, and we see that realm of comedy, and that realm is still very alive and well, too.

Oh, yes. The people leaning into transphobia and having the anti-woke Rogan's whole anti-woke comedy club. I agree with you, Holden. I think all the seas were planted for that around this time because of all the stuff that was happening that I thought was really exciting and had a lot of potential, which it clearly has. I mean, obviously, pop culture has been shaped for the better by those conversations.

I think it's stuff that needed to happen, but maybe it was also the way the discussions were being had. I think in a lot of ways, too. And it's not necessarily people's fault in doing this, but I think in a lot of ways, those discussions were being had more in the favor of the side talking about trying to inform people about privilege just because that side had a better understanding about social media worked at that time. And I think slowly over time. And so I think, again, people felt attacked because they were like had their backs against the wall a little bit. You know what mean. And I think, you know, I'm really thinking there is, there's some weird psychological thing

going on when it comes to, like, oppressive societies feeling like the victim. Like, they want to take victimhood on as quickly as possible because it saves them from having to confront the terrible things that maybe they or their ancestors have done. Is that makes sense? Yes. And so, definitely a thing. And so, like, it's like, how quick can I, I turn myself into the victim all of all this and that's where how you get to a Marjorie Taylor Green. Absolutely. Right. Because that's all she does.

She talks about how, oh yeah, all she does is make make the fucking slave owner the victim, the victim somehow. Totally. And that's actually, I think for me personally, I think that what I have learned in the last 10 years is like, yeah, like I, I was, in 2013, I was coming in hot. I was so excited. And I was much, there was a mindset online that was like, listen, if you're, if you're not with this.

Yeah. then like catch up, you know? And now I have a much more like each one, teach one approach of like if you're not there yet. Like if you're a fascist, then fuck you. But like if you are not there yet, like I will talk with you. Like I would rather like see if you can come here, you know. And it's not like a be here or get the fuck out kind of mindset.

I love you say that because this is what I think. But to hear it confirmed even just by one other person is like, okay, I'm not insane. because I don't want to also be angry or I don't want to defend the fuck faces, but there is a reason why, like, everybody's dad got weird around 2014, 2015, everybody's dad got weird. Actually, my parents have stayed actually wonderfully, you know, I feel like pretty good-minded with all this stuff. But, yeah, a lot of people's uncle or everybody has somebody in their family, they had to, like, mute on something, you know. and it was around this time. But my big thing about this year, this was like the year of hypocrisy,

I cannot believe that all of these discussions were happening. And I'm sure there was an article written, but no one fucking remembers that her points to it, that all of these conversations were happening. And yet Blurred Lines was the hit of the summer and everyone was cool with it.

And everybody was down. And there wasn't, I just don't remember a single person being like, hey, we know with all this like conversations going on right now. This song seems kind of. it fucked up, you know what I mean? I think it was happening.

Yes, it was happening. It just wasn't reaching the top outlets at the time because it was being suppressed. But I think that it was being discussed on like forums and blogs and stuff. A lot of blogs. It was like we're talking about rape jokes. And like I feel like not nearly enough talking about how blurred lines was like a rape song. Well, but I think that that's because if you. you brought that up, everyone was just like, shut up.

So we can't have fucking fun anymore at all then. So we can't have any more fun? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think that's why, you know, like, and there, so I really feel like this year was this, like, this tension, you know, and, and certainly I think the fact that there was this, you know, this was one of the beginnings of this hugely reactionary, like anti-woke shit. Yes.

It doesn't, I think that still all of that, all of the conversations that were emerging around this time, like, were good and important and needed to happen. And I think a lot of the people who got radicalized the other way towards the right would have perhaps done that anyway. Remember, also, I think if we were to tie a lot of this kind of like political awakening stuff back further, we can go back to 2008 when the first black president was elected, right? And that's really when I think people's crazy uncles really started losing their shit then. But like, that's super started it. You know, but yeah, I think I totally, I think Blurred Lines actually is a perfect little distillation of the year 2013 because yeah it's the number one hit yeah there were

people being like this is kind of fucked up and there was some people and then like you said jackie there was a lot of blogs about it and then there would be people would be like fucking blogs these feminist blogs in 2013 hated them you know and so there was it was just a lot of discourse a lot of internet discourse you know at this time some of it was good some of it was a mess i'm glad we picked this year it's a fascinating year i uh we haven't talked about the shitty movies. Jackie, you want to lead us in the terrible movies that came out. I mean, the number one movie was Iron Man 3. The number two movie was the second Hunger Games movie. Can you name me what happened in Iron Man 3? Oh yeah, you know me,

Ms. Marvel. Oh, I'm going to guess the big man with the suit on. He's kissing goo. I'm asking. I also don't, I'd have to look at it and be like, oh, right, it was that. But like, I don't, I couldn't tell you. And Hunger Games is such a weird one because it's such a... And it's the second one. And the third movie, this goes up to you, Holden. Despicable Me Too. Yeah, the Minions.

Despicable Me Too. So it's like the top three movies of 2013 are all sequels that in hindsight are kind of whatever. I think Iron Man 3 definitely gets some love in the MCU for sure. But in general, like, none of them are like, oh, once a year I got to go back and watch Hunger Games too. Yeah. In fact, Hunger Games is such a weird one in general

because of how just it came and went in the whole franchise and they're gonna try to bring it back and I think they're going to fail. I just don't see how it could come back at this point in a meaningful way. But yeah, wow. I will also say though one big movie of

that is going to be a large part of your life I imagine soon Holden and is it already a huge part of MJ's life and that is the movie Frozen. Yeah, Frozen came out this year. Frozen came out this year and I do think that that is, you know, I pride I prided myself on how long it took me

to listen to the song, let it go. Because I was so, you know, I was like, yep, I don't know the song and I'm not gonna know the song. But needless to say, I didn't realize that 10 years later Frozen was going to be just as huge as it was just as in 2013. Just yesterday. in 2023, MJ was telling us that the number one selection for their kids for music time is the motherfucking frozen soundtrack, which honestly is kind of mind-blowing. There hasn't been a single movie soundtrack that came out in the last 10 fucking years that can beat that one, apparently, with kids.

And that's like, that's definitely like many kids. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's like it is just still, it reigns supreme. And also, interestingly enough, I feel like Frozen was was. received as this like woke Disney movie because it was like there's two girls who are main characters it's just so funny it's a great movie and I like it or they're princesses but they're they have powers and they're strong and badass totally and that really cracked the code I mean that's what

I think so many little girls were waiting for finally you can be both a princess and be a superhero and it probably was thanks in a large part to the MCU and putting a lot of heroes out their heroes with powers that one would look at and be like, I want to be just like them. But there wasn't a lot of especially back then. It's still honestly, arguably even now, a ton of that going on for ladies, right? I mean, it took a while for us to even just get Wonder Woman on the big screens past this point. It was years past this point. So Frozen really was that final, like, they just really cracked it. Like, oh yeah, little girls want to feel powerful too. Yeah. Who to thunk? It took us this.

long. It's so funny. It was seen as this like massive feminist victory, which yeah, I mean, when you watch it, it's a great movie, but it is still very much a princess movie. Like one of the women doesn't have a love interest and the other does. You know, so it's like it's not like they like took out the things that make a Disney movie, a Disney movie, but they did do it a little bit more intentionally. And that was, yeah, it was either seen as like this great feminist victory or seen as this like, well, now we can't even have a princess movie without having a be feminist, you know? So it's like interesting to see Frozen as this also representative of that year of being like, let's, what if we just made things a little slightly more equal for women? And, you know, and then everybody goes and gets a case of Bush light and smashes it's not even made by Anheiser Bush and they're smashing Bush light. Or maybe it is made, it must be made by Anheiser Bush, but it's not a bad way. I don't think you're right, actually. That's like hilarious. I was wondering why a guy was smashing Bush light. to that video. I was like, why is he smashing Bush? That doesn't make it exist. He got it wrong.

This was also, this was a sad year for me. This was when Wolfel Wall Street came out. And so on my birthday, I got to go with everybody to see Henry and Wolfel Wall Street. And then we got to celebrate Henry that day. On your birthday. Afterwards, which was super fun. Yeah, on my birthday. Yeah, yeah. It was on my birthday, I got to go with everybody and celebrate Henry. And it was a really cool day for me. and I definitely wasn't just mortally depressed that my career was going nowhere. Try going to go see it with your parents while you watch your brother have sex

with a sex worker sitting next to your mom on Christmas Day. So, you know, that's... I just, I don't mean to one-up you here, Holden, but... You bitch. That was, that certainly... That is so funny.

I will say, I haven't watched it since. I think I did watch it. since because I yeah that was hard that was hard for me man I'm not gonna lie I uh some some nods to some decent ones there's really shockingly so few movies that came out this year there were any good but I did think her was phenomenal with Joaquin Phoenix gravity was a lot of I really did enjoy gravity but you're we're talking this is the year that Argo won the Oscars I remember I could sleep I could sleep I could Sleep.

Yeah, this is the kind of of the sad flick era, don't you think? Yeah. Oh, yes.

Even when he won, everyone was like, fuck you, Benette, black, yeah, he still looks sad. Fucking Argo,

really, fucking Benet. You know, everybody was so pissed up. Let's talk about rape culture, you know, he's just like,

I don't want, I just look like my Oscar and eat my tugging donuts. I don't want to talk of it. Oh, I do remember going to go see Le Miz, though,

this was the year, I went to go see Lay Miz, with, Our good buddy kept, and we had a bottle of whiskey. We were in, it was New Year's Day starting 2013. I remember having the drinks with you guys. I remember having drinks with you guys the day after.

Oh, yeah. Or the day, I'm sorry, right after. It came out in 2012, late 2012, right? And then we, like, post-full cry face. Like, you were so, like, just at the bar. We were at the bar. I forget what bar, but definitely, like, in the neighborhood. I remember.

We went to Alligator Lounge. Yes. I don't know why I specifically have, of that day, We walked from the movie theater. That's right. I met you guys there. We kept an eye, drank an entire bottle of whiskey

while we openly sang all of lay miss. We're in the movie theater by ourselves. That's awesome. It was just a great, that was my only great movie-going experience of 2013. That sounds like your best memory at 2013. But you're saying it was New Year's. Was it New Year's 2014?

No, it was New Year's Day. It came out. It came out the end of 2012. I think it came out Christmas Day, 2012. Got you. Got you. I watched it shortly after. I think it was you guys' reaction actually is what made me want to go and see it.

And I definitely did also got very drunk and watched it and cried quite a lot. I loved people were haters about it, but I thought they did a great job. I thought it was great. Well, it's the same mastermind that gave us cats. You know, really? Yeah, it's the same director, bro. What? Russell Crows shouldn't have been Javier.

Russell would have been Javier. But that was it. He did the best he could. And also, Javert is like an annoying character. The Angela Bass is for sure. Yeah, he did the thing for sure. He did the thing. Wow, that's the same person as cats.

Yeah. I can't believe that. Now we have to start watching them back to back every time we watch cats. We have to watch Lay Miz. Yeah, man. Let's do a group watch a laymish. I would love, oh, I'm going to have to sing, but like turn my volume down since I can't sing.

But I want to watch it with you guys and hear you sing. Let it out. You have to let it out if you watch it with us You can't hold it in or mute it All right, all right. I actually would love to do a group watch of late miss. God, is this just one of the, this, I would list,

30 is one of the worst years for movies, I think. Yeah, but great for television. Horrible for movies, great for television. Great for television. And this really was, I saw one thing, I don't mind it, maybe the BuzzFee list or one of the other ones that was like, and like binge watching became, you know,

the thing, became the Angela Bexie. of 2013. And, you know, yeah, I think it was really, we just, we wanted to watch prestige, long, drawn out, you know, hours and hours and hours. Gimmy, give me, gimme, of television watching for the first time. And that was where everything was being packaged. And then when it came to the movie theater was like, would you like to be a part of our superhero universe?

Come here to the movie theater. And like, everything was geared towards that to such an obnoxious degree. we are in full superhero hell and it's just a shit ear for it too it's Thor the Dark World one of the worst MCU movies of all time Man of Steel which you know is just fully embedded in that

Zach Snyder muted color you know re 9-11ing a city in a superhero movie world like it just was not a good scene yeah really at all and yet TV wise this is when

Pique a blonde starts coming out. This is when Brooklyn 9-9 starts coming out. This is the beginning of Rick and Morty. This is the beginning of Orange is the new Black. This is the beginning of House of Cars. Oh, my God, House of Cars. Yes.

That was another great time. I feel like God saw 2013. I was like, oh, you all like the Internet. It's staying at home, binge watching things, huh? Yeah. Interesting. Well, I give you COVID. And then he threw COVID.

Oh, I remember like saving Mr. Banks with Tom Cruise, or Tom Hanks. or Tom Hanks rather as Walt Disney, whatever. That was pretty fun. Was it fun? I saw it with my mommy. This was the year of Spring Breakers though. That was a good one that came out of 2013. It was a good year to be a drunk person.

These are all good like get drunk and watch them movies and TV shows. This was a great year to be drunk. Also, not to bring up the discourse again, but it was also the year of girls. So that was also a lot of discourse that I had. thankfully never participated in. Is girls actually good? Am I gonna come to that show at some point and be like, oh wow, this was actually brilliant

or is it just, you know, because I had shit covered glasses at this point in my life because I was mad at everyone succeeding and me failing. My problem is that like, I haven't watched it since it was on air and I was so annoyed by the characters that I couldn't. Like, it wasn't like I was hate watching them.

Like, I just was so annoyed by them that I didn't want to continue. I don't know, again, though, that was, like, I was annoyed because I was like, I don't want to watch a bunch of rich people my age. I'm so broke. Like, I was just so broke during this time period that that was the last thing that I wanted to do. So I don't know if I would look back and watch it differently than I used to. And I didn't watch it because I didn't want to have to talk about it with people.

And so I didn't watch it because I was like, everyone keeps asking me what I think about girls and I don't want to have these conversations. and so I just never watched it. I understand. Because it was like, everyone was like, you like feminism and you think women are funny. How do you feel about girls? Doesn't that prove women aren't funny? And I'm like, you know what?

Let's just avoid this. See about girls. Oh, no, Paw Patrol started in 2013. I'm sorry, Trigley. That shows been around for a long time. Talk about longevity, man. Oh, yeah. Kids shows, though, they can do that, you know?

Yeah. fucking Sesame Street, bro. It's a marvel to me. It started in the 70s, right? Or the 60s? Yeah, Sesame Street. It's a marvel. Yeah, I think at least 40 years old, maybe more.

No, but more. Crazy to me. Yeah, anyway, and it's still good. Sesame Street is still excellent. Oh, man, this was a great year for Henry, though. Your pretty face going to hell. Fucking Wolf Wall Street. I was the limit for my friend.

I was in an opposite world, but Scott was living for Henry. That's great. And shout out to him for ruining my birthday. All right, everybody. For ruining my birthday. And that's him for ruining my Christmas. That really happened. Yeah, ruining Jackie's Christmas.

That really, really happened. I was so, I was so floored. I was like, are we going to do anything for me to anything? No. Okay. We're going to test it. Go celebrate your friend. It actually does speak to why it felt like such a weird,

here for you guys. Because like you said, you used to, Bird or Fiss was always together. This whole huge group always, always, always. So of course at this time that everybody's different stars are rising at different rates, you know, everybody's going to feel real weird about it. And you're transitioning from your early 20s to your mid-20s in some cases

or your late 20s to your 30s. It's like everyone's trying to be like, this is the year you're like, fuck, fuck, I got to get my fucking shit together, you know. Yeah. Yes. It was really hard. Yeah. Yep.

And that's fine. We did it. Hey, things got so much better. Things got so much better. These are some dark ears for me, but things got way better. You took your shit glasses on. My shit glasses is super off, super off. Except when it comes to this list of movies,

that will always be shit covered when it comes to be looking at the movies that came out in 2013. Rough year for movies. Crazy. It is just a rough year for movies. Crazy. All right, I guess that's our show. Thanks everybody for joining us. We're on the road right now doing live shows.

So check out tickets for that. Last Podcast Network.com. Come see us out. Thank you so much for joining for this special extra fun, unique and neat and very magical episode. I are you so angry

when you say the word magical. What is wrong? It was magical. It's a magic show with magic shoes and they make you fly and they give you the news. What that's us.

Fuck heads. Thank you guys so much for hanging out with us. My name is Jaggie Zabrowski. You can follow me on Instagram but Jack that worm, you can come hang out with me on Sundays and Tuesdays and Wednesdays over on Twitch.com forward slash, oh no, it's Jackie. And don't forget, last podcast, network.com for your release the butthole cut tour tickets. Patreon.com forward slash page seven podcast. That's right.

Catch it. Get it. Feel it. Need it. Love it. It's got... Pop it. Magical. It's magical. It's magical. Patreon. Patreon.com, four, such page seven podcast is a magical treat for you and me. $5 a month. You get weekly bonus episodes and you get for $10 a month to hang out with us on our Discord for the Jersey Shore Watch Along. It is always a blast every single week.

Check us out. Patreon.com, ford slash page 7 podcast. Also, Twitch.tv. Ford slash Holden Nature's Ho. Monday through Friday, streams. Friday I do Jackin with the Holdies with Beloved Jackie. Me.

And that is at 6 p.m. ET. Yeah, that's my. That's my name. There you go. And then she said it, and then you get it. Twitch.tv.tv slash hold naters ho. MJ. My name is MJ and I'm MJKLCat on Instagram.

All right. Bye, everybody. Bye, y'all. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors. You can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.