Page 7 - Riverdale Roundup Ch. 107: Stop Having Adult Sex in a High School, Please

Episode Date: May 7, 2022

Maple Syrup $20,000Jingle Jangle $15,000Orphan Children $80,000Candles $36,000,000Riverdale to Rivervale transition (and back)  $15,000someone who is good at the economy please help me budget this. my town is dying  Support us on our Patreon page and get weekly bonus Patreon-exclusive content! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast Intro song by Green Dreams Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Well, butter my butt and call me a biscuit. Have you been dying to see us live? Then get psyched about the last podcast network, Country Jamboree, at the Rhyman Auditorium in Nashville, Tennessee on June 18th. Jackie, we're not at the Country Bear Jamboree, but I am grinning like a possum, eating a sweet tater. Because we'll have all your favorite LPN family out and performing live, including last podcasts on the left, page seven,

Wizard and the Bruiser, No Dogs in Space, Brider Side, fraudsters, someplace underneath, the story must be told, and more. Tickets available now. Again, that's the Rhyman Auditorium on June 18th in Nashville, Tennessee. The last podcast network, Country Jamboree! You were completely correct when you said that they saved all of the smooching for this episode. It's been smooching austerity. season over here. Fucking no smooches all year.

And now finally they're like, oh my God. It's like they sat down and they were like, where's our like kiss quota list? And they realized they were at zero. And they were like, well, let's just put like 15 into this one. I mean, there has been no kisses

for episodes. There's been no sexiness. And this was, I dare say, because I am a teen on the inside, I wish I could have seen more. But I like the, you know what, at least it wasn't almost kisses. They were full on kisses and they just let you fill in the blanks about how many times Kevin had to say, I got to go freshen up.

After hanging out with moose, but, oh, my dreams. But they do Kevin dirty. We got to, I don't want to jump ahead, but I was, I was upset on Kevin's behalf of this. episode. Even though I was happy that he got some smooches and he got some action, I was happy for Archie and Betty, because I'll always watch that tape. And I, you know, I enjoyed Veronica and Reggie's like hate fucking, but I also felt pretty uncomfortable about how furious Reggie seemed to be with Veronica. And how forceful and aggressive she was sexually. I actually was kind of like, this is, I'm, they would never have depicted that in that same way on Riverdale if, Veronica was like was male presented right yeah like there's no like it was very actually I thought it was kind of weirdly

aggressive in a scary way yeah I'm glad that I'm not the only because I was like okay I guess like it all kind of ended fine and so I was like okay I guess that those weird vibes I was getting was just like oh this is kind of like a like a hate fuck situation but but I definitely like initially I was pretty uncomfortable

with it because Reggie looked really really unhappy. And she was just like being really pushy and dominating and aggressive. And you're, you're so right. I like, we're kind of trained to like recognize that as like, oh, get it, girl. But like, it's like, no, it's, that's actually bad. No, if he was into it, if he was into the being dominated and he was just like, oh, yeah, no, you are. Okay, you are in charge. Sure, sure, sure. Oh, yeah, no, no, I watch it. I watch it. I watch it. But that is not the case and um i will say he brought up betty and rj i think that this might might have been i dare say the first time i've ever been attracted to kjipa really in that conversation yeah well when he

was why is everybody smooching jay wait wait wait wait which could the conversation where he was like i'll stay with you no matter what that conversation yeah it's like awa it's like my bar is so low the bar is on the floor when it comes to river My bar is in the basement. I was like, oh, he'll stay with her if he knocked her up. Isn't that nice? It's, I'm largely because you don't have low standards for men in your real life, you know. But the fact that you have that low standards for Archie is honestly, totally textually

appropriate. The guy has offered us nothing. Thank you. So it makes sense that when he like slightly steps up. I mean, he's stepped up for the town before, but we could never imagine him to actually be like a good boyfriend on an interpersonal level because he's so obsessed with himself and his own trauma. But so is she. And he's obsessed with the town. Yeah, and he's obsessed with the town. That's true. He's got two loves, his own history of trauma and his town. And his father

and his father. And his father. RIP. RIP. But Betty was also obsessed with her own trauma and that's how they came together in this episode. Yeah, of course they did. I said this to, I said it aloud to Jeva, about how I felt about Archie, and he's just like, so you're saying that you, you were into him because he's like, yeah, I guess I was going to fill the house of kids anyway,

may as well be the one I put inside you, and it's like, yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Also, it's a lot of, there was a bit of deja vu in this episode because haven't we literally had, like Olivera Rodrigo? Do you get deja vu

when you're with Betty talking about having children, Archie, because I'm pretty sure we saw this scene before, right? In Rivervale, okay. So that's when that happened. So I was like, I actually felt like maybe in this episode they're trying to bring back some of the things, bring in some of the things from Rivervale? Yeah, I think so. Okay. I'm pretty sure because, I mean, obviously they even said it's just like it's out of Stephen King because this episode is all about the fog. It's called in the fog and the fog is rolling into Riverdale. And up top of this episode, our four fearsome forsome forsome have decided to have stage a coup of the town to try to get Percival Pickens out of power.

But where do they have this conversation, MJ? They have the conversation in Alice Cooper's home. Why would they do it? I don't know. you'd think with Betty's, you know, what is it, what do we call it, terror vision? Right. Threat vision.

You'd think that she would be more aware that her mother was still in the house when they had this conversation, but what ends up happening? Alice Cooper goes right to Percival Pickens. It's like, they're going to do this, but what are we going to do about the fog? And so the forsome don't know about the fog yet.

And so, like, we're going to have a big town meeting, invite everybody, We're going to form a coup. Right. But they can't because of the fog. I mean, good for them. As I, at first it was like fog, that's not scary. And then I thought about driving in fog.

And I was like, everyone get home. Stay home. It's very scary. So that's what essentially Alice Cooper goes onto the television and tells everybody that there is, which made me feel like, I'm surprised that they didn't pull back the last episode when she said after sundown, everyone had to be home. And I immediately thought of the sundown town part of the last episode. Same. I was like, this is just a weird way to write this. Like, we were just having an episode about sundown towns. Can you not say everyone go home at sundown? Can you just say sunset instead? Like, just change the word so that it doesn't

sound so reminiscent of these horrible lynching laws. I'm so glad that that bothered you too. It really did because I thought that's where it was going. It was like, all right, buckle up. I don't know what the hell's about to happen, but what was about to happen is that the fog known as the wrath of God is coming to Riverdale. Also, like, Alice Cooper is the weather lady now. I just, I truly love Riverdale's like, fuck it, whatever. Anybody could have any job at any time. They do whatever. I mean, you watch Percival. He became, he went from sheriff to curio shop owner, which I don't know if you noticed this conversation between Alice Cooper and Percival happened and he had a monkey's paw right in front of him in this conversation, which I think is great.

Yes. I think that the Stephen King, like the elements that they are pulling in, I am 100% here for it. Little Goth maybe is just like, ooh, I'm smiling. So what do they decide to do during this? We don't know up top how Percival is going to persevere. Oh, Percival is persevering. Do you think that they're going to start to kiss?

Who, Alice and Percival? Yeah, do you think it's going to be an Edgar Ever and Ever situation? Yuck. I mean, everybody who's in the cast should get to kiss Alice Cooper at some point. I miss Alice Cooper kissing. Oh, remember with FP? Yeah, that's what I really miss, you know. And like, I love the roller coaster of Alice Cooper.

Sometimes she's good. Sometimes she's bad. She's bad. And then she comes back to the good side after being rescued by Betty. you think she's going to remember not to get bad again, and then now she gets bad again immediately. But I guess she's bad because Percival is controlling her, so that's not her fault.

Yeah, it's not her fault. But the other times were 100% of fault. Yeah, she's very inconsistent. Maybe a little bit of brainwashing. She's very inconsistent. So while all this is happening, Tony, so remember, I keep kind of forgetting that Kevin is in the middle of trying to take baby Anthony

from Tony and Fangs via court. Yeah, you keep forgetting. I think because that's only been going on for like maybe three episodes. And it is surprising because Kevin, I want to get a lawyer on this, like a family court lawyer on this in terms of because like I just want to know what do we know. I mean, I don't think that obviously Kevin was going to be, I don't know who's sperm it is. So I don't know who's the biological father. I don't think any of us know. But obviously Kevin was either going to be the biological father or the adoptive father of the child as soon as the child was born. But since he

bailed before the child was born, presumably he didn't become the adoptive father. And if he's not the biological father, I'm just not sure he has any claim. Not that like non-gestational, non-biological parents like shouldn't necessarily have claim. I'm just, I'm just curious. In this instance, Kevin, Kevin literally was like, yeah, I'll raise a family with you. And then was like, you know what? And then bids. Never mind. Totally, I'm out completely. I'm going to Broadway.

I, like, immediately just was like, I'm going to go do my thing. And, like, even that, like, changing your mind and at least giving the child to parents that are going to take care of it. I mean, I guess I understand that. But shouldn't he have, isn't that, like, giving up your responsibility already? So why would they give you full custody? Again, it's like this child has never lived with him. We have no idea. Like, it's just very interesting to me that that Kevin now suddenly is like having, claiming

totally equal, you know, claim to this child that he has never had any interest in. Like, you know, since being born. And, right, I guess I'm just assuming that it was Fang's sperm, but maybe is Kevin's sperm. Who knows? But in any case, it isn't. interesting family court question. And that is where they are bringing it too to family court because Tony and Fangs are just, I don't know, again, I love Riverdale. And they're just their general use of the criminal justice system slash the court system as a plot line because Tony is just like,

okay, Kevin, bring it on. If you won't fight us in the streets, we'll fight you in the courts. And it's like, Tony, do not take it to court if you don't have to, please. If you are a gang leader, especially. Yes. Do you not understand the state will take your child away from you? Yes. They just took a bunch of guns, like illegal guns out of your house. What do you think it's going to happen?

Yes. It's not fair, Tony, but you are like a proud and vocal gang member. And I think that's great. And I think you should be proud and vocal. But please don't take it to the court just to prove a point to Kevin. Like, can you guys try to work this out in a non-courseral way or a non-sincarral way or a non-sense? state have like do not get the state involved with this poor baby anthony but you all have too much ego Kevin and fangs are way too pissy with each other to work this out interpersonally so

they're gonna take it to court if they have to get it to the court and then they're so that but then Tony's like no no no you're not taking baby anthony because you because of your compulsive cruising which is I mean you know you you don't want the fang to come out when like this is the kind of shit that gets thrown into people's faces when it comes to it's like even just like your sexuality gets thrown into underneath the microscope and so he's all upset about this and they're like all right fine let's try to talk this out before we take it to court but the fog rolls in mj and he can't get do you okay before we get into what happens between moose and kevin because yes, moose. Remember moose from back in the day? Big, thick, meat-headed moose that used to kiss on Kevin,

which I completely forgot that when they went to have sex for the first time, that Moose's father showed up in the dorm room, dressed as the gargoyle king, to scare him out of his homosexuality. Yeah, that was rough. I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah.

Yet another bizarre choice of River Teague. else. Weird. Yeah. So weird. So what is it? So Moose shows back up and he had left essentially like kind of bailed and left in disgrace.

So he shows up because Kevin is working late and he's about to go over to talk to Tony and Fangs about baby Anthony. But Moose shows up and I, part of me thinks that Moose isn't Moose. What do you think about that? Yeah. Yeah, I felt like Kevin was being betrayed in that scene somehow. I didn't. Right.

And it's because nothing good can ever happen to Kevin. And this is, if I may go on my spiel about how they're doing Kevin dirty. Okay. Please. In season one, I loved Kevin's cruising. Go back, play the tapes. It was on the record. We loved it because it was like, yeah, cruising is like, you know, part of queer culture.

Like, this is cool that Riverdale's, like, portraying this. And also he's this like, you know, angsty gay kid in a small town. Like, there is, he's like, fine. He was like 15. So just, you know, but in reality, he's in his 20. Right. And like cruising in the woods isn't exactly a thing outside of Riverdale as far as I know. But like, you know, I thought it was, I thought it was cool to be like, all right, let's like, let's normalize cruising in high school.

Fine, whatever. And since then, I, what have the right? What has happened with Kevin over the however many seasons of Riverdale has been? Like, yes, sometimes he gets to direct musicals, but they have turned his cruising into like a pathology, like a compulsive. It's like it went from being like, you know, like a, again, like just like a thing. Like this is a important cruising is like not something to be like, oh my God, that's so messed up. No, it's like. And now they have turned into like it's his biggest flaw.

which I think is like super fucked up. They've only ever given him like fucked up relationships. And I think it's, if this is a show for young people, don't show them queer characters who like are destined to like have fucked up relationships. I think that that's not, I mean, obviously like Tony and Cheryl had like a, you know, fine, but fucked up in the life of Riverdale, which is fine. Like they've had plenty of other like healthy queer relationships. Kevin eventually had a healthy relationship with fangs or whatever.

But I just like, I feel like the whole moose thing and turning his cruising into a pathology and then just like having him be a cop, whatever they need a cop without like. Yeah, now he's a cop because his dad's a cop. It's like, that's also not how it works. But, you know, that's Rivadale, Jughead. And like without developing his own interests, it's like, oh, he likes musicals. But also his dad's a cop. So I guess he's like, I just feel like Kevin is a very two-dimensional character. And it pisses me off because he's like, you know.

He's always in the cults. He's so easy to bury it. Yeah, right. He has no backbone. Like, it's true. He will join whatever cult there is immediately. And I just feel upset, not with Kevin himself, but with Kevin's lack of depth. Yes, I completely, I completely agree with you.

And I completely understand, especially if this is Jeff's thinking on this is that Moose said that he's going to be the new PE teacher because he was working for his, he was, he got fired from his job when the lonely highway shut down because I think that he was, I believe that he said the word truck. Uh-huh. Yes. And Jeff was like, what if he's B-T-K? Yeah. Did I say B-TK? You did say B-T-K. Trash. Trash. TBK. T-BK. Sorry, TBK. You can see how I could mess up. I don't know what you're Because there's a scene with Betty when, like, you know, which we find out what happens to Betty when she was taken by TBK and that she had to dismember a body in front of him as he stood behind her. There's actually a pretty creepy episode. Yes.

I'm going to throw this out there. It was kind of a creepy episode that she had to dismember this body and TBK is ripped. And you know who's a thick boy? Yeah. You're right about that. Also, side note, I'm slowly working my way through the Batman, and didn't TBK look exactly like the riddler and Batman? Yes, it is very, like, it's very, you know, it's very, like Zodiac, it's very, but that's more of what the riddler apparently, I don't know. I'm saying I know nothing about, like, I know the movies of Bittman's, but apparently it's closer to what he's supposed to be.

Okay. He's not supposed to look like Jim Carrey with all the question marks? No, apparently not. Apparently, that's not scary, but it's scary to some because he wasn't able to control himself on sex. But that's just a Jim Carrey fact. So essentially, Moose and Kevin bang in Riverdale High School, which again is illegal. Yes, stop having adult sex in a high school, please. Please don't.

It's, please. And then he sees the Gargoyle King inside of the high school. So I feel like it's, you're right, I think that it's nefarious. I think that the fog itself is nefarious. I feel like what happened, what we talked about with Veronica and Reggie, was influenced by the fog. Ah, Reggie was in such a foul mood because of the fog. Yes, that maybe the fog is like brought in by Percival that also like clouds people's judgments, that clouds like what they do, which I feel like is maybe what is being, if I'm picking up

but they're putting down, which they're very rarely putting down what I think that I'm making up, is that the fog is a mental fog that has been put into Riverdale. It's too much. Oh, I think that you're right. I like it. And I also like the theory that TBK is moose because TBK should be someone we know. Again, if Riverdale has taught us anything, it's that it might not be someone we know. Remember what it was the janitor.

When Archie got, like when the guy had the palladium. and was just like the construction worker. And Jeff, when we did Riverdale Roundup, and Jeff was like, that's TBK. There's no way. He's like, that's TBK who attacked him. I was like, no, it was someone hired by TBK. There's no way it's just going to be some unknown.

And we like yelled at the judge. But remember that time it was the janitor that we had never met. We had never met. Because then that was a fake out. Wasn't that a fake out? I think it might have ended up being a fake out. I don't remember. But they'll do it.

They'll do you. dirty like that where they'll just be like, oh, TBK, no reason you would ever know who it is. We just spent two seasons on it and now you still don't know who it is. When you find out you won't know who it is, it will just be some person. But it would be great if it was Moose. And I guess Moose's motivation for becoming TBK would be, what, the horrible trauma of having his dad be the gargoyle king. As Kevin did say, that was a horrible trauma that messed me up for life. Yeah.

Which goes back to my like, please don't portray queer kid characters as like only able to be horribly traumatized, but that would be fine if it turned out. Don't worry there, Cheryl. Cheryl's not traumatized. This episode, talk about trauma. Oh, my God. Even as I said that, I was like, oh, my God, the letters. We need to talk about Cheryl. Yeah, I actually need your help with that because I didn't understand that. Who's tell us about Heather? Who's Heather? Okay, so if I remember correctly, so in this episode, guys, Cheryl, Penelope Blossom comes back. Yes, Thank God.

And Penelope Blossom, Cheryl Blossom's mother comes back, and now she is a member of the Sisters of Quiet Mercy. Yes, the one nun community that exists in the world of Riverdale Penelope Blossom is now a nun. We'll get into what ends. Well, we'll talk. Let's talk about what happened the lead up to the Heather thing. She shows up. She's in full nun garb.

And Cheryl's like, ah, fie on ye. Mother tempress, you get thee out of my abode. Or whatever Cheryl says, because, man, they really leaned into her vernacular, and I am forever here for it. I love it. There has never been a moment in Riverdale history where I haven't loved Cheryl. Love it. I really do.

And her fit in this was great. Yes. I love, and I love Penelope Blossom. Penelope Blossom is such a... She's one of these characters. and also an actress that like goes with it. She does. How many versions of Benelope Blossom have we seen in this show?

I was just thinking that same thing. I was like, man, this woman is acting the shit out of this. Like, like, she is usually, Benelope is obviously usually such like a horrible bitch. And in this, she's like, this begging, like, repentant, like, please forgive me. And I was like, this, she is carrying the acting ability on the show. Like, she is, you would have thought she was a totally different person than previous Penelope Blossom. Like, kudos for, you know, just absolutely bringing it to a show this stupid.

Can you imagine, remember when she was living in the walls? Gaslighting her daughter into thinking that the corpse was reanimated. Remember that? Yes. That's just, that's just what mommies do. So she shows up, and she's all in Nun Garb, and she's like, I've come back because I want to pledge myself to Christ. but I need to finish my unfinished business with my daughter. Now, Cheryl does not believe her,

and in fact ends up walking in on her staring at the doll that houses the spirit of Abigail, and she's like, I'm just looking at the doll, sweetheart, which, what do you think about that? Yeah, why is she looking at the doll? Do we trust that she's truly repentant? Because she didn't give us a reason not to in this episode. and do, at one point didn't, why did Cheryl say,

why are you looking at Julian? Is that, that's the same Julian doll? I guess so, which I didn't know that a Julian is the, I'm sorry, not right, I said reanimated corpse before. I meant reanimated doll. The doll was animated. Yes, Jason was a reanimated corpse. Julian was a reanimated doll who was the triplet.

Oh, that's right, was the triplet. I forgot that Julian is the triplet. That's right. It's Jason. and it's Cheryl and it's Julian the dead. But has that doll, I thought that, I didn't remember them saying that that doll that was housing the soul

of Abigail was the same doll that was housing the soul of Julian, how many souls can one doll house? I feel like, didn't we exercise the soul of Julian? Did we finally get rid of that spirit? Maybe. It is fair.

Talking the logistics of this show is always so funny. It is very difficult to. Keep straight, who has a soul, which inanimate objects have sold and which don't? So I had no idea. I didn't, we didn't know that until this episode. Okay. I thought it kind of looked the same, but I thought, I don't know. Honestly, y'all, so much shit happens in Riverdale.

Sometimes you just got to go with the flow. Our brains only have room to store so much information, you know? So part of this information of something that I did remember. So how does Cheryl's mom get her to think that, like, no, she's actually repenting, is that she gives her 365 letters written by Heather. Now, if my memory serves me, Heather was spoken of when Cheryl was trapped inside of her own nightmare scape, inside of her brain when Abigail Blossom had taken over her body. Remember when her mommy nightmare was keeping her trapped and her mommy was dressed up like a doll?

Yes. And she talked about that moment. And I'm pretty sure she's talked about this moment a couple of times that, like, I didn't remember that the name was Heather, but that she had a best friend who she had a crush on and she had her first queer experience with her. Penelope Blossom walked in on it, and that's part of the hatred and the shame that comes from Penelope Blossom is because she knows that her daughter is, I guess, Cheryl is gay, right? Yes. I'm bisexual, gay.

She's just gay. I think just gay. Sorry, didn't mean to say it like that. So the shame of Cheryl being gay, so this has always been kind of wrapped up in the issues she has with her mom. So the letters that she'd gotten is because her Penelope Blossom banished Cheryl from ever talking to Heather ever again. So Heather wrote her a letter every single day for a year trying to connect with her. And Penelope Blossom took all of the letters and kept them as future fodder just in case she became a nun. Uh-huh.

Okay. And you're never going to believe this. I'm looking on a Riverdale fandom wiki. And there's a post from March of 2018 with somebody saying, is anyone else really confused about the whole Heather thing? Like, where is she? Did she move? Did she die?

Also, Cheryl mentioned something about her mom tearing Heather and Cheryl apart. So apparently Heather has appeared before. And apparently people didn't understand it then either. So, you know, but then they pepper it in Riverdale. where it's like they do, in some ways Riverdale expects us to forget. And then in some ways it expects us to have just minute memories of names dropped into an episode, which I like it because you never know. You never know what you need to be paying attention to when it comes to Riverdale.

Yeah, it's true. You never know when they'll bring back something that was apparently confusingly introduced in 2018. Who knows? A full four years ago. Yes, four years ago, they mentioned this in an episode. And then Cheryl sat and read all of the letters. And that scene was genuinely made me sad. She just sat on her bed with all of these letters and just cried and cried and cried.

And it made me feel really bad for her because, again, like you had said, like, I wish that not all of the gay characters in Riverdale didn't have to be. go through such traumatic experiences? It's, it's really tough. Like, you, yeah, you want to show,

like, you know, you don't want to, like, ignore or deny, like, the reality that, you know,

that queer kids have faced and continue to face. Of course, which is, I mean, which is many. But also, I think there could be a representation

of, like, you all, like, not all queer youth have to go through, where it's like, yeah,

this is, putting in a stereotype to keep it. Yeah. The stereotype of media when we don't need... Honestly, oh, dude, sidebar, though, that's why you should watch Heart Stopper. I think that you would really like Heart Stopper on Netflix. This is the opposite.

It is exactly what we were talking about that we wish to see in media. Okay. Of like queer teens falling in love and it is not just like, but they're queer. It's so shit. Yeah, it's like there's not. You know, I, yeah, I am like, I'm so, like, you know, we're having fucking flying angels over here.

Like, we can imagine a world in Riverdale where queer people don't have to be tortured all the time with homophobia, you know? Like, we can, if we are. At least there's like the sheriff Kellers, but then they also, but then they go after Kevin for cruising. Right. So damned if you do, damned if you don't. Right, right. Yeah. I feel like, like, I feel like Pose is a good example of this where it's like it shows the reality of what it was like to be like queer and trans.

the 90s, but also it's like a show ultimately that it's about like joy and like it's like just like an extremely joyful show and I just feel like. You're saying Riverdale's not joyful? Yes. Perhaps I should, nobody gets to be joyful in Riverdale. So perhaps I can I can lodge this complaint with another show because everyone is tortured in Riverdale to be fair. The straight kids are tortured too.

They're just not tortured by like heterosexual like, you know, they're just, it's just that The queer kids are just consistently done dirty by homophobia in a way that I wish to show, you know, alternative storylines for our queer characters. Or they become a nun. You know, that's their punishment? Do you believe Penelope? Because I was all set not to believe her because I was like, well, we never trust Penelope. Penelope is the biggest snake of all of them. She was brought in by the fog, man.

I think she was brought in by the fog. And I don't trust her. Cheryl tries to set her on fire and Penelope like stays true. She's like, I am like, please don't do this. Pyrokinetic, yes. Pyrrachinetically tries to set her on fire, which was a very funny scene. Jeff just next to me being like, she would be boiling from the inside out. Just like, yeah, I'm like, stop it.

Stop and stop yelling about the real bullshit. So I think that that came in from the fog. Also, I forgot to mention before with Veronica's weird aggression. Her weird aggression came from when Reggie said that he wanted to get rid of the Hiram Lodge painting that is in their office that stares at him all day long. Do you think it is a Dorian Gray situation? Because again, we never saw Hiram Lodge die. I will die on this thing that he is not dead. I'm going to say this until like years after Riverdale is done and over.

He's not dead. When you're 90 years old and your family is just like placating you, you're going to be like Hiram's corpse was never shown. Yes, Grammy. Yes, Grammy Adams. We understand. No, you don't understand. We never saw the body.

We never saw the body and I don't trust it in Riverdale. Not when it comes to Riverdale, baby. So I don't, do you think that Penelope Blossom is true? I don't know, man. I was truly not, I believed her. Like, she seemed truly repentant, but obviously- She also is a great actress. Fool me one shame on me, you know?

Like, it's a- Yeah, dude. Like, I should not fall for it because she's Penelty Blossom. Like, can she repent? I don't think, you know, Cheryl has also become a nun recently and turned out to still be Cheryl, you know? But, like, but yeah. But, yeah, and then I- Oh my God, remember they had a religion.

like half a season ago. Yeah. Also, I love how in this episode, usually they kind of like make up like a, it's like Christianity not Christianity. And then today or in this episode, Penelope was just like, my sister in Christ.

I was like, all right, let's just talk about the Lord Jesus Christ. Okay. Remember last episode too when they were talking about like his will and things like that? I was like, what is that? I mean, again, it's the fog.

It's the apocalypse and it's the fog. Yes, I guess you're right. This is like a very biblical season. But again, it's always kind of like Bible, not Bible. Like they don't usually like name Jesus the Christ. No. But it's happening. They don't name Jesus the Christ.

Well, that's why, oh my God, I know that we're not, well, I'll say it when we get there. We're still talking about, oh, no, we're not talking about Cheryl anymore because we need to talk about Tabitha and Jughead. Yes, we need to talk about Tabith and Jughead. Because Tabitha, remember, she can try. travel through time. Yes. Also, can I just say we made the joke many times about how the candles in this episode may have been a lead character.

Because because of the fog, all of the lights go out. And every single twosome scene, they're like, we've got to get out the candles. And every scene, there were like a hundred candles. Does nobody in this town fear fire? Don't you remember there is not a fire department in town? Do you really need 350? Candles to light an empty restaurant. And while we're at it,

do you need to use your generator to light the Pops sign? No, you don't. I guess you want to be a beacon for everyone out there, but no one's going to see that shit through the fog. People can't see three feet in front of them. Turn the sign off. Save your fucking gas for being able to see

and eat indoors. Yes. Save it. What are you talking about? But every single scene, there were so many. I was like, what was the candle budget for this episode? There were so many candles. And it's someone that like, we've both done, like,

I think about the high maintenance shoot that we did. Like, it's like, oh, if there's a snake on set, then yeah, everyone needs to know where the snake is. Everyone needs to get to breathe. How the sake is like, you know that like fire marshal is right off the set. Like it's like staring at everyone. Why would you use so many candles? I, yeah.

I, as a, I have like, I'm a big fire fearer and I love a candle. Don't get me wrong, but I am just generally terrified that a candle means an uncontrolled. A candle is one step away from an uncontrolled fire in my anxious mind. And seeing all those candles, I was nervous about it. I was like, you guys, there's literally two of you in this restaurant. Can you tone it down? You don't need as many candles? And I couldn't stop.

But I guess Tony, I mean, not Tony. Tabitha can, like, see the future. So if there's a future where they all got burned to death, she would just go back and change it. because she's time traveling and she can, okay, break, let's, I need your help here. She has this conversation with Jughead where she's like, there was 1,300, I saw 13184 possible futures. That she has gone back and forth because Jughead asks her if she can stop the bomb from going off. so that maybe that it would like turn back time so they wouldn't have powers and then Percival would never have come to town.

Oh, is that why? I was like, Jug had selfish reason to act like, you're really going to choose time travel to just like fix this one thing. But I see, he thinks that Percival came to town because they're powers. All right, so that makes it. So she does a little experimenting with her time travel. She realizes that there is no scenario in which she can stop the bomb from happening because then Percival would have, like, been more powerful,

and he would have been able to be stopped. And there's out of the 1384 possible futures where the apocalypse is coming, there's only two where they beat Percival, and there is zero where Jughead doesn't die. Yes, yes. But how... And he's like, oh, two out of a 13884.

But, like, what is that... Is it like a... choose your own adventure, can they just choose one of those two, or if they could try for that one of those two and if it doesn't work, go back and try again? Like what level of, it gets real, real fuzzy as soon as he introduced

time travel, Riverdale? It really does, and I think that like, like, so essentially what Tabitha says, because it's a fixed event, because the bomb goes off, it's a fixed event, she can't change the bomb from going off, but she lied about that. Um, because she can. It's just that

none of the outcomes are good. But I wonder if it's that like because this war is coming of I'm assuming between heaven and earth or angels and fallen angels. I'm going to assume that's also going to be fixed in time and won't be able to be undone. And I think that that's how they're going to work their way around the time travel thing is just they get to dollop on of like, nope, that one's deemed. necessary, deemed necessary. And I think that that's what they're going to go, like that's how they're going to figure that out. Okay. And I

wonder if like the killing of Jughead, which we all know he's not going to die. Yeah. Again, we already did this Riverdale. Yes, we've done this already. That he can't die. And he even said that. He's like, I've been told I'm going to die before and I outlived it and I loved it. Yeah, I enjoyed that little self-referential Riverdale. Because I kept

being like, you already did this Riverdale? The Jughead's like, I have actually already been destined to die. And I was like, all right, thank you for talking about it at least. I do also love up top of all of this conversation between the two of them. She's like, can you stop reading my mind? And he's like, I can't hear. I have to read your mind. Because I keep forgetting.

I'm like, it's just not how our brain works right now. Are you thinking about the next thing that you're going to say? Am I thinking about the next thing that I'm going to say as I'm saying it? No, I don't. I know. Why do you think I slip up all the time as I'm speaking? I know. The, like, the use of Jughead's deafness is, you know, really, I just hope that they have perhaps, like, a deaf writer or someone they're consulting with to be like, can we just like use this as a plot device but not make it just like extremely fucked up?

But they, I don't think that that's what's happened. I don't think that they can. I don't think that they can. I don't think that they are doing that. Yeah. But that's, you know, and we now find out. That she's trying to change time to figure it out and that there's only two circumstances in which they can defeat Percival. But also, they need their powers to be able to defeat Percival.

Right. So that's why they can't change the body. Yes, thank you. Because they need the powers. So while all of this is going on, so all these bombs are dropping, another bomb is dropped. So we finally get to see Betty and Archie get it on. and then she tells him that she's two weeks late with her period. And then, you know, the conversation when I may have seen a glimmer of a lust somewhere deep within me,

when he said that I will, you know, I got to put kids in his house somehow. Well, I guess it may as well be with you. And I was like, aw, because I've got problems. but like you said, standards low for media, standards high for life, which that's okay. Yeah, that's bad. So she starts talking about her time with TBK, because TBK is back on the scene,

and we see the ripped TBK tell her to dismember a body, and she does genuinely a creepy scene, and also genuinely the mask of TBK is very, very scary. But then we don't know if Betty is, pregnant by the end of it or not. Yeah. We're going to assume that she is. But this happened in Rivervale as well.

So I think that you were right that they are bringing back the portions of Rivervale. And I did say, does that make this baby the opposite to Jeff? I was like, does that make the baby like the opposite of the Antichrist? Is that like a pro-Christ baby? The Messiah? Yes. And he's like, I think you can just say Christ. Yeah, the pro-christ.

I'm like, it's pro-Christ. Is that what this is? Is this baby going to save them all? Definitely. Which that's, I did not expect Riverdale to be this biblical. Yeah. This is a lot. Yeah, it's weird.

I mean, but wasn't that kind of the story in River Vale, too? It was like, this is going to be. I mean, the thing is, every introduction. of a baby in a show is always a little Christ-like, isn't it? Because they're like, this is going to change

everything. This is going to save everyone. And then at the end, right, we close on Betty and Archie looking at the pregnancy test with like, you know, shock.

Shock. And I was like, it must say something fucked up forgetting that there's only two choices on a pregnancy test. Like, it can't say, like, Like how on the clear blue one that says like pregnant or not pregnant, but like I feel like it must say like Christ, you know, like it must say a word that isn't pregnant or not pregnant.

It's just the crowd of thorns. Honestly, that's what I think is happening. I think that it must have a symbol that is not pregnant or not pregnant because they are like they're looking at it that are like, oh. And I think you're right. It must, these are all things that I cannot, do not have the like foresight to put together while watching the show. But you're totally right. There's an apocalypse coming. There's a war between heaven and earth.

There's angels battling each other. There's Satan. And now that we have to have a Christ. And then the fog rolls in. We have to have a mother Mary. And we have to have Christ. Where are the four horsemen? I think that the four horsemen are going to come and it's going to get real weird before it irons itself out.

but also when does Riverdale ever ironed itself out? Do you think that they're going? No, they're not going to do Jesus Christ Superstar, are they? Oh, my God. How happy would we both be? We are due for a musical episode. We are. It's about that time of year.

I would fucking die of happiness if they did. If this whole dark-ass devil season culminated. in a Jesus Christ Superstar musical episode. Or it's just Starlight Express. It's one of the other. Or it's just like, look at him go! And they're on roller skates now. What?

Oh, please let it be Jesus Christ Superstar. Oh, yeah. Oh, man, now I'm just going to be sad if it's not Jesus Christ Superstar. If it's not Jesus Christ Super. But you know what? What we do here, Riverdale Roundup, sometimes we set ourselves up for mental failure. And that's okay. But sometimes we manifest good things.

You're right. We got all these smooches this episode. episode, which I needed some smooches. Yes, we wanted our smooches. We called for them, and they gave them to us. Thank you, Riverdale. Thank you, Riverdale, gods. We just have to sacrifice some of the storylines every once in a while.

Yeah, just give Kevin a break, will you? That's what that's all I am. Please. I hope that he becomes good at the end of the season. Like, it's like, no, he's back to being our friend because he's kind of evil right now. I know. I know. I don't like sad evil, Kevin.

No. With a cruising pathology. I like happy cruising. Kevin who gets along with his friends and is still Betty's best friend and like all of that. Kevin doesn't have any friends. He just like hangs out in the dark hallways of a high school as a grown man, you know? And with Percival, it's why I'm worried that Moose doesn't exist or Moose's TBK. These, of all these things that I've thrown out there, is there a Dorian Gray situation? Who knows? Who, like, is Penelope Blossom? I don't know. She can't be a nun. I don't think she's a

part of the sisters of quiet mercy. I'm throwing it out there. Yeah. I'm going to, let's just make it interesting. You say not a nun, I say she's a nun. Okay, I love this. I think it's good, and then it'll inspire debate, and I am excited for however many episodes there are left in this season, because again, we'll never know. Have absolutely

no idea how many are left. Have absolutely no idea when the season will end. Man, what a wild ride. It is, and thank you guys so much for joining us on this wild ride. It was a great app. I'm just saying, if you listen to this, and you don't watch the show, it was a pretty good app.

Yeah, I enjoyed it. It was good. Yeah. And it got the smooth charm. Thank you guys so much for joining us, and we will be back next week. With episode 13. Probably. I think. I think. Thank you, MJ, and thank you guys.

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