Page 7 - Riverdale Roundup Ch. 118: Welcome Back Riverdale

Episode Date: April 1, 2023

Riverdale is back baby! Get yourself ready for some insane and downright questionable plotlines, and MJ creates a potential future of having to release a Herzog-esque "MJ Knefel Eats Their Own Hat" Support us on our Patreon page and get weekly bonus Patreon-exclusive content! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast Intro song by Green Dreams Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Which one were you going to do? I was going to do Riverdale's back. All right. And you were about to do, guess it was back, back, back, back. Back again. Riverdale is back, guys. And don't worry, it is not pulling any punches. I did have to text MJ about a quarter of the way through it when I finally realized that they were in fact, they weren't sent.

This wasn't their ancestors sent into the past. Oh, no. This is themselves picked up from the present and put into 1955. Yeah. But they don't remember anything that happened in the last six seasons except for Jughead. All right. I'm already feeling like I'm behind in trying to explain this. It is tough, though.

And when you sent me that text, I was like, Jack, you get your head in the game. Of course, it's not their ancestors. But then, of course, it's reasonable to assume it would have been their ancestors because how many times have we gone back in time on Riverdale to see the young Fred Andrews played by Archie and et cetera, right? And how many times have we gone back in time even further than that? We've gone to the 80s. We've gone to the 1600. So why wouldn't we go to 1955 and have it be ancestors? But you know what else we've already done on Riverdale?

Time jump. Yeah, man. We've time jump forward. So now we're just time jumping backwards. And it's the same characters, everyone is themselves. But as you said, no one has any memory of present day Riverdale, River Vale, explosions, bombs, body snatching, gargoyles. Oregon harvesting cults. They don't remember any of it.

Blessedly free from all of that trauma. And aren't they happier? Don't they seem much happier? Archie and Betty, but the only one who knows is, of course, Jughead. I would say the only one that I'm going to go ahead and already assume who is the most unhappy, and that's someone we didn't get to spend a lot of time with this episode. And that is now back in the closet, Kevin. Yeah, Kevin's back in the closet.

Jeff and I kept joking around and was like, is Jughead just going to grab Kevin and be like, you, your mother told you you were husky, and then you had to suck cock in the forest. And we were just waiting for that reveal to happen. But instead, in describing Kevin's past life, Jughead did say, you directed a lot of musicals and we're in an organ harvesting cult. Yes. That's what he said instead. Jughead is trying to refresh everyone's memory about who they are.

And when he gets to Kevin, he has like a hilarious like, oh no, it's 1955. Should I tell him he was an out gay man? No, instead I'll say that you directed a lot of musicals. Yep. And now Kevin is in a relationship with Betty in 1955, which is very weird. I... Can I just say going out the gate? All right?

And I know that this doesn't happen until the end of the episode. But I must say it now. I'm very surprised that the rest of the season isn't just Jughead trying to convince all of them to get back to the present because during this whole episode, Jughead is the only one that remembers. But in the end of the episode, the Guardian Angel of Riverdale, aka Tabitha, does give, should I even say this yet? Should I go back?

No, do it. Say it now. I just want to first of all compliment ourselves because we've now made it four minutes into this podcast without talking about Emmett Till, which is about two minutes long. than Riverdale went before they started talking about Emmett Till. So we're going to come back to Emmett Till. Content note for the large role that Emmett Till plays in this episode. But we'll talk about that later.

Let's talk about that ending moment when, because this is one of those Riverdale's where you can't talk about the A plot, the B plot, the C plot. You have to zoom out and you have to talk about it in a kind of meta, what has happened in the entire experience way. So at the beginning we learn, okay, nobody, it's 195, everybody is themselves, but nobody remembers the real, the other timeline except for Jughead. At the end, Tabitha, the guardian angel of Riverdale comes to... Why did you just roll your eyes when you said Guardian Angel of Riverdale? Tabith.

The chronokinetic Tabith. Let's be honest, was a pretty underdeveloped character even before they turned her into the Guardian Angel of Riverdale. And they have not invested much in developing her since turning her into the Guardian Angel of Riverdale. Isn't Archie the Guardian Angel of Riverdale? Why is it Tabitha someone who came in late in the game? I know. Why is it Tabitha? Nobody cares about Tabitha.

Nobody knows anything about Tabith, except that she is the granddaughter of Pop. Yes, Archie is the vigilante of Riverdale, I guess, but not the Guardian Angel. Yeah. It's, I, I struggle with the Guardian Angel of Riverdale plotline for Tabitha, but she tells Jughead, you know, yada, yada, yada. I couldn't figure out how to save Riverdale from Bailey's Comet. Because if you remember Bailey's Comet was coming at the end of last season. So this was the Guardian Angel's way of saving her friends. Right.

Putting them in 1955. Right. Because they couldn't stop the Comet. So she has to go back in time where they're safe. Yes. but she had to go far enough back in time where Emmett Till is. That they had so far enough back in time that she charges Jughead with making the arc of the moral universe bend towards justice. Which is, of course, a Dr. King quote.

But now it's a Tabitha quote. She stole it from Dr. King. It is. Like, oh, we're not, we're not trying not to talk about it until right now, but for some reason, there has, it's, let's let you lose. Let's let you lose. You know, we're going to get back to the end. Don't worry. We'll get there. Why do, but my main question is, why does it, why does she take Jughead's memory away? I don't get that part. That's the thing. So the guardian angel takes Jughead's memories of the present away with a kiss so that the guardian angel, because like while all this stuff in 195 is happening, the guardian angel. The guardian angel. didn't want him to muck up too much. Ah. So essentially she's like, you, he's too curious, like a little cat. So she's batting the cat with a little kiss on the mouth and saying, no, you don't

remember anymore. She's kissing the cat on the mouth. He's right. Why is a human kissing a cat on the mouth? You don't like a human kiss in a cat in the mouth. And she's going to go and try and fix the timelines so that they can go back to the present, but that they won't die in Bailey's Comet. So they are going to eventually come back to the present.

But I don't know if you follow Roberto Aguirre Sikasa or any of our beloved Riverdale characters on Instagram. But they seem to be still recording in 1955. And I'm pretty sure this entire season is still going to be in 1955. Oh, yeah. They should not, they better not start a season in 1955 and then just be like, ha ha, forget it. Like, no, we're in 195. Remember Rivervale?

Yes. Remember the five episodes of just like amazing television? And then they went back to fucking Percival? Yes. Still mad about Percival. I accidentally started an episode of season six instead of season seven. And I was like, no, Percival, no. Not Percival. He's dead.

Yeah, so, right. So, okay, so that's why they erase. The Guardian Angel erased Jughead's memory of present day so that she can feel free to. moved around in time without him getting his little curious fingers in it. That makes sense. But she gives him a charge. He can't remember anything.

He's trying to run home and write everything down, but it's disappearing. And she gives him a charge. And the only three words that he can remember by the time he gets to his notebook and pen is bend towards justice. Which is, again, a reference to this. Very famous quote, the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice, which, what, first of all I don't even get me started. It's obviously a fantastic quote, but people use it to be like, well, everything always gets better.

But that's not what he meant. It meant you have to work towards it. It doesn't just happen automatically. But I just want to ask. It's time for Emmett Till. It's time to talk about Emmett Till. The reason why we're talking about Emmett Till is because it is heavily present inside of this episode of Riverdale. It's not just like a one-off line.

MJ's not going crazy because of just like a little thing. Actually, the main part of. of this episode, the main plot was about Emmett Till. It's like the central, like, symbol of the episode, really. It's not really a symbol because it's not really standing for anything. But within the first two minutes and 45 seconds of the episode, they are talking about Emmett Till's murder and his funeral. And they're explaining, you know, who he is.

Emmett Till was a 14-year-old, who was wrongfully accused of cat calling a white woman. and obviously, you know, a foundational piece of U.S. history. But I guess my question is why. And I really did agonize over this because on the one hand, if they went back to 1955, and of course it's fun that they go back to 1955 because this is like the original time setting of Riverdale, right? So everyone look, all the characters look like how the characters actually looked in the comics originally. Love the costume design. I'm digging the set designs.

I'm really digging it. It's cool. And like, yeah, the cars and everything. So it's like, it's like, season one of Riverdale was like, ooh, what if it was Riverdale, but in the present tense? And it's all sexy. And so it's kind of fun to be like, oh, but what I wouldn't if it's that sexy Riverdale, but what if it's in the past again? All fun. And it would be like bad to, or annoying or missing an opportunity maybe to be like, we're back in 195, but we're not going to talk about racism.

because obviously if you're going to do a story set in 1955, like you should talk about racism. And so for that reason, I'm actually really intrigued by like the choice to be like, we're going to, this, we're in 1955. But also you can't tell a story at 1955 without like violence, racist violence being central to it because that was a central guiding force of the country at that time. On the other hand, couldn't it be considered perhaps a little bit in poor taste to bring the very real. story of somebody whose relatives are very much still alive, by the way, because this was not actually that long ago, into the Riverdale universe. Like, Riverdale, it's just, I am so, I talked with Gideon about, he did not watch the episode with me, by the way, but I did talk with him about this. And he was like, I don't know, like, if this is how young people are learning about

Emmett Till, like, maybe it's like, good that we're bringing it in this way. It's just like, it's just Riverdale, such a strange, Riverdale always tries to do its little woke thing. and we love it. But like, it's just like, you're going to talk about the specific horrors of this specific story and the photographs of Emmett Till at his funeral, which is one of the reasons why this is such a foundational thing because Emmettel's mother wanted to publish these photographs. And you're going to use this as a plot point in Real Season 7 episode one. Like, is it okay?

I just don't know. It might be good. It might be bad. I truly do not know. How would you have felt that if it was the same thing, but in, Instead of Emmett Till, they called him like, Schmemet Rill. I was going to say this. How would you feel about it?

What if they had done the Riverdale thing, which is when they bring in real people and then like change one letter of their name. I think Schmett Rill. Like, wait a second. Like, what is the name that they call the, their credit cards? They call it like, you know, they have everything that's like, it's like. Yes, they've got all the different dumb names. Instead of Amex, it's like Amex or something.

You know, they have all the dumb names for real things. And if they had been like, you know, right, like gem it till, that I think would have been worse. But then on the other hand, again, I'm just like, this is like using a real tragedy to advance the plotline of Riverdale just seems inherently disrespectful. But maybe I'm wrong. Jeff just kept grabbing my arm just being like, are they going to show the pictures? They're not going to show the pictures, are they? Because then I feel like that's going too far. And I was like, yeah, yeah, I don't know if the CW is going to allow the real pictures of something that actually happened to a person.

I, you know what, MJ, I didn't see why you were so upset until you started saying why you were so upset, like, that you couldn't tell if you loved that they were doing this or didn't because I was happy because I didn't know. It was like, I wonder if Emmett Till is still, with everything going on, like, is it still being able to be taught in schools? Like I, you know, as someone that doesn't have any kids in school, I have no idea. And I'm just watching from afar and at least watching from my home state as it's just ripping up the idea of what education is. So part of me was like, oh, I'm glad that this is something that's being discussed. Yeah. But I understand where you're coming from. Well, but no, but you also make a good point, right?

Like, obviously there's a huge tech on teaching about racism in schools now. and they call it critical race theory and it's the anti-CRT and Florida is all. And so, so right, there is part of me that's like, okay, all right, like we're going to. And again, the instinct is good to be like, we cannot tell a story about Americana in 1955 without bringing in the very, very real specific, like constant presence of racism. Yes. Like that, I think it's actually very cool that they did that, especially because they have clearly made an effort to get more actors of color on the show.

And it would be really a loss if they were just like, it's 1955, but everything is fine. It's fine. Characters here and there's no racism. Like, so it is, yeah, and I don't know. I don't know if it's good or bad. I have no idea. It's just, it's just a choice. It is a choice to just bring up Emmett Till throughout the entirety of an episode of Riverdale. I will continue to process.

But one thing that the Emmett Till storyline did bring, so essentially what happens with it is that Tony and Tabitha and some other character that I don't know if we got the name of. They go to the funeral of Emmett Till, then they come back and they want to read a story that Tony wrote for the paper. And Betty is like, I would love to include this article, but Principal Featherhead won't allow it to be put into the newspaper at school. So Betty goes to her parents, Alice and Hal. Hal Cooper, Hal Cooper, who is now back, by the way, and is he still a serial killer? See, you couldn't get past that Matt Till, I couldn't get past the fact that Hal Cooper, Betty's father, the Black Hood, is now back in the world of Riverdale, but is he still a serial killer? We don't know because he doesn't remember, because that's when I figured out that they weren't their ancestors because I was like, Jeff, he probably is still a serial killer.

because remember Hal Cooper, like his father also was a serial killer, and Jeff's like, but that's not his grandfather, Jackie. That's himself. And I was like, what? So she goes to her parents, who both work for the news, like the television news, and they're not allowed to read anything about Emmett Till either. So then it becomes this thing where Tony and Tabitha and Betty and Cheryl, they all team up together to read this poem that they, like about Emmett Till and about like the feelings of

woe that come from this kind of disparity. Yeah, and it's a, it's a Langston Hughes poem. And, and I will say that I was pretty moved by the show of solidarity that, that Cheryl and Betty, you know, like, it was really like an actually kind of cool example of like students coming together. And I feel like of Cheryl and Betty choosing to actively be. anti-racist comrades with Tabitha and Tony. I actually did like that part. And yeah, so Cheryl says, all right, if you're not going to, they go to Cheryl. And even though Cheryl's being a huge bitch to Veronica the

entire time, they say like, you know, we're being censored here. Nobody wants us to talk about this story. So will you let us use your platform on the morning announcements to read this Lexington News poem? And Cheryl, as she always does, comes through when it really counts. She really does. And it's actually, it is actually a very cool scene and that's I did I did like that it made me and I okay this is this might be going too far but it kind of made me think about like the whole plot line in the first season when like they all come together like when all the girls at Riverdale come together and yes I was just like I we haven't seen them work together yes in seasons yes I love it when they come together and I do love it when they come together about something that is bigger than them.

You know, like, it's fun when they come together to, like, stop a serial killer, but it's, it is also fun when they come together. I love the plotline in the first season where they all come together to, you know, call bullshit on the, you know, basically rape culture going on at the school. And it's really exciting. And so it was actually very, I found myself watching this scene and being like, this is actually, like, a really great example of anti-racism coming from Cheryl and Betty. And then I was like, I can't believe I'm thinking.

thinking it's about Riverdale. And then also another way that this, not to get now to, we're going to go, I'm going to shift, if I may, to speculating about what, what seeds are being planted, which is a favorite pastime here of Riverdale. But did you notice? So in addition to talking about the murder of Emmett Till and the funeral

and using that as a way of, right, talking about Tony and Tabitha's kind of like activism, They also, they keep talking about the pictures. And that's real. The pictures of Emmettill were, you know, were published. And his mother wanted them to be published. And there was this, you know, foundational moment in U.S. history. And they also keep talking about the pictures of James Dean's car crash.

Molly Ringwald, Archie's mother, wants him to stop driving his hot rod around because James Dean in this timeline has just died in his car crash. and she keeps saying the pictures, the pictures, Archie. And so I feel like they're planting some seed about pictures, or is it just them being like, is that just their way of being like, it's 1955 and everyone's mind is blown by like pictures in the newspaper? Or are they planting some seed about the power of photography? You know what I mean? I don't, that might be too deep, MJ. Or is something going to come?

Because they just keep being like the pictures of James D, the pictures of Emmett Till. It's repeated throughout the. episode, and I'm just wondering if that is a seed they're planting. Do you think that pictures from present day are going to resurface in some manner? Maybe, yes. Yeah, something like that. Like, a picture is going to jog their memory. And I guess that's also where I went to go get annoyed again because I was like,

are they using like real facts about Emmett Till as a symbol? Like, where is this, like, where is the Emmett Till stuff here going to be used to advance plot lines in Riverdale? And that's where I feel like it starts to get a little bit like import taste. Yeah. And then, yeah, the role. the constant presence of James Dean was the other like historical kind of, you know, goalposts. He played for both sides of the net. Yes. And I looked it up and that is true. Or at least there was a lot of speculation about it and there is a rumor that he said, no, I'm not a homosexual, but I'm not going to go through life with one hand to tie it behind my back. Hell yeah. So that is kind of fun for Riverdale to bring in, you know, queer slash maybe gay James Dean. There's also, I did, I did go through a bit of a worm time on this.

And there's some theories, not that he was by, but that he was actually gay and closeted, but whatever. James Deed and Emmett Till are the two highlights of this. Symbols. Yeah, the high, like, the

they want you to know. It is 1955. And don't you forget it. You thought, oh, no, no, no. Maybe it could have been the early 60s? No, it's 1955. It is 1965. James Dean, Emmett Till. Don't forget it. 1955. And they really are. And I feel like they did the same thing when they did the time jump

forward seven years, that they really hit you over the head of like, okay, we know it's the 1950s. It's like, a one, two, three, rock around the head with rockers. I guess I know. I get it. Even though, of course, with the seven year time jump, there was no way that they could make it make sense because it made no sense. Because where, how did the seven years happen when there was smartphones in the first few seasons? We did. You can go back and listen to Old Riverdale Roundup Steer us trying to agonize about how that made, how that time jump worked. But here, they are able to be, like, very heavy-handed about the, you know, the cars and the lack of, and there's a scene where Jughead is trying to explain to them where they're coming from. And he's like, we all have phones and we carry them around in our pockets.

And they're just laughing at him. That scene was kind of fun. They're laughing at that. That was pretty great. So essentially, Jughead, this whole episode, is trying to deal with the fact that he remembers the, past. He's trying to live in the present, but he's then realizes maybe if I get everyone to wake up and realize that they have been shifted into the past, I can get them to understand and then we can go back to the present, which is of course not what ended up happening. I did write

down that Jughead did say to them in 1955, he says, I have an idea. Now it's a crazy one, but it might work. So short of waiting for Bailey's comet to return, turn. The other way we could break through the space time continuum is by getting Archie and Betty to make out on top of Archie's bed. And then we blow up a bomb underneath them. Yeah. Can you imagine saying this to people? And everyone, it is kind of fun because everyone is looking at him and like Lily Reinhardt, man, she has just such a great condescending smile. She's just looking at him with her like kind of like, pater like, you know, kind of like, mm-hmm, sweetheart, you know, patronizing. That's what I'm looking for.

Yes. Like everyone's just looking at him and like kind of smiling like, you've lost the plot, Jughead. Sure, Jughead. And that was like, you know how sometimes there's moments of self-aware Riverdale? Like that was self-aware Riverdale because obviously if you describe any plotline of Riverdale, it sounds insane no matter what plotline it is. And so I feel like that was the Riverdale writers being like, let's have Jughead describe

a plotline of Riverdale and it'll sound so stupid. That's our show. You can't describe it without it sounding really fucking dumb. So Jugged's trying to get them to remember. And for some reason, what he does, because things change when you go back in time, but not everything changes. So he was able to dig up the time capsule that they buried in the last season, but they buried it in present day. but in 195 it's also still there. So he digs it up to give them each the thing that they put in,

like, you know, very important, the booklet for Carrie the musical that Kevin put in. And so he gives it to all of them. They're all like, what is this? Where did this come from? But I feel like they're not wowed enough. If I was given something from like 70 years in the future, wouldn't you be like, what is this?

Yeah. Whoa, jeepers. Crimeanies, you know? I would expect more of a hubbub from that. How about the fact, how about when Kevin goes, I don't get it, Hegway, and their 80-grade inch, what's the inch? Like, what is it? Like, that was, you know.

That was pretty cute. That was pretty cute. Yeah. Because Jughead is so wrapped up in trying to get them to remember their past selves, which is also part of the reason why Tabitha, aka the Guardian Angel of Riverdale kisses him to take his memories away. And of all of the times that I was even saying

that they're doing a good job of keeping it in the 1950s. But then they play real hero by Electric Youth, which is one of my fucking favorite songs. And I was like, why are they playing this song right now? Very into the moment, but it was not very 1955 of them. Is that from the drive soundtrack? It certainly is from the drive soundtrack.

There was a time. And it was a good time when the drive soundtrack was everywhere. It was lit, shall we say? Can I say it? And they started, I was like, watch, I was like, okay, all right. I think we're about to be done with this episode of Riverdale. It's time to process. And then I started hearing the, the, yes, the little twinkles of real human.

I didn't know you loved that soundtrack, too. That soundtrack was amazing. I think it was because my roommate at the time just played that soundtrack constantly. I want to say, what was that? 2010 around then. But yeah, no, it's a great soundtrack. And I was excited because Riverdale doesn't usually like, I feel like the sound design is not always my favorite. I don't think it's where they're putting their money.

I'll throw it out there like that. Exactly. But yeah, I don't know. I spent so much time thinking about thinking about how I felt about the Emmett Till thing that I, and I've tried, I've spent a lot of time since yesterday trying to zoom back and be like, okay, how was, regardless of whether or not that entire driving conceit is appropriate,

how do we feel about the rest of the characters, you know, the, I like. What did you think about Veronica? Now, I will say, can we just, I want to give a special shout out to whoever was costuming Veronica in this episode because old Veronica, I'm going to say old as if she's not at least 10 years younger than me in the time jump, but old Veronica's fits, I wasn't always like, like, that's it. I guess I just, she's got such, she looks good. Yeah. And I think that sometimes it was like hidden behind some of her clothes, but her clothes in this episode, even though can we just say they don't.

look like teenagers. They so don't look like teenagers. It's hilarious. They never did, but they especially don't. They especially don't know. But Veronica looks great. Absolutely 35 to me. Like, I don't even know how old he is.

I don't know. I know Cole Spouse just turned 30. Okay. All right, I got to look at how old is KJ. Epa. But now they're all, like, if you didn't believe it seven years ago that they were in high school, I don't know what to tell you now, man.

KJ. Epa is only 25. What? He was born in 1997. He was born in 1997. Is that true? No way. So he got Archie when he was like 18? What on earth?

Wow. Maybe, maybe, you know what? He is a father. Maybe he's just tired. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've also aged 10 years since I had children. So maybe it's that. People are constantly saying how beautiful my skin is.

And I was like, I think it's because I haven't had children. And they haven't stolen my youth. Do your parents ever tell you that children steal your youth? Do you feel that way about your children? I do. Yeah. When I see pictures of myself before, I'm like, wow, they really did. I just like rapidly and immediately aged.

It's like a horror story. except that's just what new life is. He looks good though. Veronica coming to town was a big part of this episode as well because in this it's like the beginning of Riverdale where Veronica just shows up but in this now Hermione and Hiramairoam are both like superstars. They're both like television superstars on Mija, of course.

And I was upset because at one point, and essentially they said, sent away Veronica from Hollywood because she was wrapped all up with James Dean and being like a young Nairdwell. And they had to send away the Nairdwell to a small town so that she couldn't do as much damage anymore. But they sent her to go live by herself her junior year of high school. If that's not asking for a teenager to do things that they're not supposed to, I don't know if you had any friends that didn't have parents around, but I certainly had friends that didn't have parents around. And we did a lot of drugs in their homes.

Well, I think that they have Winthrop or whoever the 1955 version of Winthrop spying on her because Veronica brings Archie back to the Pembroke. And then Hermione calls. But wait, isn't what's her face not part of the show anymore? And that wasn't Hermione Lodge's voice. No, there's no way that was her voice. All right. And Hiram isn't part of the show. And Marconsuelos is not part of the show anymore either. No. Okay. So that's why. And neither is Marisol Nichols. And I'm, I'm mad because it was like, oh, they're going. I just like, I had a hope that I think had hung up on a shelf. And I dusted it off. And I was like, if they're going back to being teenagers, maybe we get more parents. And all we get is Molly Ringwald. I know. I know. Always the least exciting of the parents, not for nothing. Yeah, no, that's so interesting because, right, she's like, oh, like, yeah, I think the show is called, oh, meha. And she's basically. basically Hermione and Hiram are like Lucy and Desi and have like the I Love Lucy show, which is I think their way of dealing with like the fact that in 1955 like things were also not really, wouldn't have been fair for like Latina people either. But rather than like they just are kind of like, ah, like they're like famous people. Like the way that Desi Arnaz was. But they don't ever show the show and they don't show. And I was like, oh, we're going to, this will be fun. Like let's see like their little.

Riverdale Alternate Universe version of I Love Lucy, but of course they can't because Hiram and Hermione aren't actually, the actors aren't there anymore. So that's an interesting. That actually make, I was like, why are they like dropping this little gem that this is, that she's like the child of Lucy and Desi Arnaz, basically, but not actually bringing back Hiramini. But that's why. I'm desperate for them. Yes. I know. It really is a huge loss not to have the the parents anymore. Yeah. I mean, everybody looks. looked great. It's interesting because since none of them have any memories of anything that happened in Riverdale, like, Betty is like not dark Betty, Betty's just like a happy

Betty, she's just Betty. And like Archie is just like a happy smiling dofist, which is kind of what he always is. He's not so sad. He's not so traumatized. The head of an orphan boxing ring orphanage. Not being mauled by a bear. Yeah, they're just normal. It's very weird to go back. And like, that's why are we going to go back? What kind of magic science are we going to get in this season because of the fact that, like, well, all of that stuff doesn't exist anymore. So you don't have to worry about any of those things. But Tony is still a serpent. Oh, my God.

How hot did Tony look in that denim jacket with the fucking serpent's logo on it? I was so. Also, Tony just. Tony looks to her age and Tony looks hot. Hot. Hot.

So hot. Yeah. Tony looks fantastic. Good Lord. Very, very, very hot. Did Jughead have a snake on his sweater? Why did he have an S on his sweater? Because that's the old school.

That is his original costume has an S. Has an S? Okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah, yeah. I was like, is that an S for serpent? And I'm not familiar enough with.

archy, like, canonically as I could be. And I guess I need to start looking into this. I know. I'm like, do we need to educate ourselves about actual original Riverdale comics? Whoa. Now I want to give a shout out to Caitlin

because Caitlin wrote in a bonkers Riverdale theory, but I really enjoyed it. And I appreciate where your head is at because this is something a little bit that Jeff and I were talking about and you put it into words. And I just want to say, thank you, Caitlin. Caitlin says, what if season seven is actually set in Jughead's version of the afterlife? For the record, I do hope my theory is wrong because I kind of find this plot development lazy.

Then again, it's Riverdale, Jughead. At the end of season six, we see the gang in Riverdale, circa 1955. No one remembers their present-day lives except for our canonical narrator, Jughead. We have seen the OG comic version of Jughead a few times in the series, but most notably in Jughead's personal sweet hereafter. If Jughead is dead, this would also fall in line with our beloved nightmare child, aka Cheryl's prediction at the end of season six, that some of the resurrected must die for her to stop the comet.

Plus, Tabitha's future seeing prediction that Jughead is destined to die. It could also fit in with the opening lines in 1950s Riverdale about James Dean dying too young, assuming that is a weird way that Jughead's consciousness is letting him know that he is dead. Again, I hate this theory, but I had to put it on virtual paper before season seven aired. He was hoping I'm wrong.

So this person wrote it before she saw the first episode. So I liked where your head was at. Yeah. Liked where your head was at. And I still think that it could fall into the fact that maybe Jugged is dead

and that that's what the guardian angel is trying to break up the timelines to figure out a way, to save Riverdale and save Jughead. Yeah. Well, because, right, I was going to ask kind of with our last few minutes, do you have any predictions?

Because there really isn't much plot in this episode. There is the kind of anti-racism plot. But Emmett Till! There is a lot of Emmett Till. Despite the ever presence of Emmett Till throughout this episode, there is not much plot. But it's basically just an introduction of all the characters. But then at the very end,

in addition to this conversation between the guardian angel of Riverdale and Jughead. We get this like, he's like, I wrote down bend towards justice. So they're kind of given a mission. The mission in this season is that they have to change the arc of history from 1955 to bend towards justice. But then he's like, and then I saw something I had never seen before,

because his memory has just been wiped away. And it's his hat. All episode, he's wearing his spiky hat, but it's the 1955 version of his spiky hat. And then at the very, very end, he looks down in his desk and he sees his, like, stocking cap, beanie version of his spiky hat, which had been his item in the time capsule. And it's like, dun dun, done, done, jug heads hat. And I was just like, I don't know what that means. What does that mean?

What could that possibly mean? I think that that means that between him writing down Ben Towards Justice and him having the present day, 2023 hat, I think that that's going to be his. tie that something is amiss, that even though he doesn't have the memories anymore, that he's still going to be aroused about sniffing around like the little rat king. Remember when he became a rat king? Sniffing around the little rat king that he is. And I think that that's going to keep him curious, as you said earlier. And I think that was the dun dun dun da the hat. Dun, dun, done, done, the hat. He's not going to forget because he's got the hat. Real human.

And also, Tabitha has to use her chronoconnesis to get us out of 1955, which is such a great line. And there's also, mind you, there's like 195, Tabitha also. Yes. So there's like, there's a regular, very boros norro, by the way. Barry Borosnoro, snoro, despite her quest for racial justice. Oh my God. we didn't bring up Julian. Oh, my God.

Julian. Ugliest actor to ever join the ranks of Riverdale. Sorry, Julian. I feel bad for Julian. Why would they do this to him? So I, okay, remember how before I said that, or so they go back in time, but Hal Cooper is there all of a sudden, and I don't know if he's still a serial killer. They also brought back J.J. Blossom, Cheryl's twin brother, but it's not J.J., it's

Julian and he is played by I'm sorry young gentlemen. I know you're not listening to this. He's a fine looking man. He's just not in the Riverdale universe. And also why? Why would there be a different twin in 1955 except for that they just couldn't get the actor who played JJ? It's got to be that.

It's literally has to be that. They have to reverse engineer like a thing where they're like, oh yeah, we said there was a tripline who didn't survive. Let's figure out how to make that work because it's got to just be that they could not get JJ. Even though they could get JJ last season. Wait, was Julian the third? That was J.J. Was that the name of the unborn third?

Of the trip of the unborn third. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. So that's- You almost an unborn turd and I think we should start calling him the unborn turd. Oh, Julian. The unborn turn over here. Yes.

Julian was the unborn turd. If I'm 90, I mean, I haven't, I didn't go back and rewatch, but I'm 95% sure that the, that the unborn triplets name was Julie. Oh. But why is that the twin that's alive in this universe and not JJ? Except that the actor who plays JJ was unavailable. Gotta be the only explanation. I hope I'm wrong. I will eat my hat if the actor who plays JJ shows up later in the season and they somehow tie together all the triplet plotline that was a season.

that they dropped several seasons ago. Because as people know, they drop a lot of seeds and we don't follow the seeds. And I like it when they follow the seeds. And I did love the entrance of Penelope Blossom, Cheryl and Julian's mother. She comes in and goes, why on God's earth are you too in such sullen, sulking moods?

It's not like you're poor. And I stood up and I clapped and I was like, what an entrance? Penelope Blossom's back. Because if you remember, Penelope Blossom was put into prison for being a part of the griffins and gargoyles shenaneries and then there was the prison break

so Penelope Blossom got out but then we never knew what happened to Penelope Blossom we just knew there was the prison break that was constructed by Hiram Lodge. So now Penelope Blossom is back and she looked banging. She did. She looked great. I'm glad to you... So happy Penelope Blossom's back. I'm glad that you remember.

remember that because I was like, I couldn't, if you asked me where, when this season begins, where is Penelope Blossom? I could have said, in the walls at Thorntill. I could have said dead. I could have said in prison. I had no idea where that bitch is. I'm pretty sure that was the last that we heard of Penelope Blossom. I'm fairly sure. Because she has lived in the walls before. She certainly has. She's been in the walls again. And that's when she was manipulating the body of JJ and or, but now, so that's That must mean, does that mean that that mean that J.J. is still dead in this world? I don't think there is a J.J. in this world.

So he's the unborn turd. I think, right. I think that J.J. is the unborn turd. I don't know. If they go anywhere with this, I will commend them. Because I think that this is just a whoopsie-dazy. Actors don't want to be a part of Riverdale anymore situation. Which how could you not? But maybe it is some amazing long game that they were there going to tie in this thread from several seasons ago when they mentioned the unborn turd Julian.

Or is it a casting issue? That is like the ever-present question of Riverdale is did they do this on purpose or on accident? Or on accident. We'll never know. Oh, we'll never know. But I'm so happy to be back. And I wasn't as disgusted by this episode as I thought I was going to be. Yes, it was a fine episode, except for, again, the giant question mark that is, should they have invoked the story of Emmett Till or not, will they continue to?

How will they? But invoking the, you know, the constant presence of racism in 1955, I think is cool. And I was, yeah, aside from my initial shock of them bringing in. Emmett Till's Murder into Riverdale, I was otherwise pleased with the episode, except that nothing happened. Yeah, nothing really did happen. But I'm still, yeah, and honestly, as much as I was confused by the playing of a real hero by Electric Youth the end, I think it really did.

I was just like, you know what? I like this episode. And I think it's simply because now I'm just going to go listen to a real hero for the rest of the week. When they bring in real music, it really puts the whole episode up. one grade level. You know, same thing when they bring in

like that time they brought in toxic. Like I said it before, I'll say it again. It was fantastic. Like they just, they need Riverdale benefits. I've also been watching

a lot of love is blind. Shows benefit from real music being played. Not like love is blind music, but like when a real song is played, it will do wonders to make you think. Love is a risk. That's my favorite one. That's the thing that Real Hero did.

It reminded me that a real hero did. that a real song will tie together a narrative that isn't even there. It will make you think you just watched a very good episode of TV, even if you didn't. And I think that might be what just happened with us. And I'll take it. I'll take it. You know what? Welcome back Riverdale, season seven.

Our last first episode of Riverdale, do you feel like it's like we're sending them off to school? That's sad. Yeah. It's like how they say you only have 18 summers of, you know, with your child. With your child. And this is like, yeah, this is our last first episode. That is, oh, my God, Jackie, I can't believe that made me sad. That's what Stockholm Syndrome does to a person.

Thank you guys so much for joining us this week at Riverdale Roundup. We might not want to kiss them all right now. I'm not, there certainly was no hoardiness in this episode. Zero. That is none. Yeah. Negative. Negative.

Very upset about that. But it is going to be the 1950s, and I'm excited for, like, once, oh, I'm excited for Kevin to find out and for Cheryl to re-remember that they're both gay and I just want to watch them be kissing. Yeah. And there needs to be more kissing. Yeah, they need to make it gay immediately. Yes, please. Yes, please. Thank you guys so much for joining us.

We'll talk to you next week because Riverdale's back. We're back, baby. Bye, cuties. Bye. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.