Page 7 - Riverdale Roundup Ch. 121: War Profiteering with Maple Syrup

Episode Date: April 22, 2023

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Hey guys, it's Jackie Zabrowski, and Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser are going back on tour with the release the butthole cut tour. We're coming to your town. Hold it. Where are we going? Salt Lake City, Denver, Colorado, Las Vegas. We're going to Portland, Oregon, Tacoma, Washington, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, and St. Louis, Missouri. Where can they find tickets, MJ? For tickets, go to Lastpodcastnetwork.com. What's that again? Lastpodcastnetwork.com. Hell yeah. Jay just told me that they watched this episode of Riverdale at 5.30 in the morning.

Yeah, my life, man. My life. What has led me to this? Here's what's happening. My husband does not want to watch Riverdale anymore. I think that ship has failed. Oh, no. When I say, oh, I have to watch Riverdale, he'll kind of look at me like, good luck with that, you know.

And so, and I'm, this is not even a blaming him situation. This has been years in the making. Yes, we get it. Where there was it where I had to watch Riverdale's without him and he missed enough, you know, where it was just, you can't, if you miss two Riverdale's suddenly, you've gone forward in time seven years. You've gone back in time 60 years. It's tough. Yeah, you have no idea. So he is like, and also, to his credit, what he was seeing episodes of Riverdale, they were very.

difficult to watch for years and years. And so it is not part of our evening routine. And I always think, okay, well, I'll just watch it on my own. And then always Thursday night before we record on Friday mornings, I think, fuck, fuck, I didn't watch it. And so I use the time that I have available, which is the time before my children wake up. And I wake up. And I sometimes, sometimes I'm like, oh, I'll be ambitious and I'll fold laundry and watch Riverdale. Not today. Today I woke up. and I was like tired, getting on the couch under a blanket, and I'm watching a Verdale. And maybe that's why I found this one to be just a teat.

Boro snoro. Maybe it was because I was fighting the snorros. I had the momentum of the snoros because I had just woken up. But I did, I mean, I don't know. I feel a little bad saying it because it is what we wanted. There was a lot of kissing. Yes. A lot of kissing.

A lot of sex talk. Yes. But my verdict on this episode, after our glowing review last week is tiny bit borough snorro. Am I out of line, Jackie? No, you're not out of line. Really? You know what it is? I think that we're just so used to the spectacle of Riverdale that now that it's been toned back again, even though again it is, it is like two cups of what we asked for when in reality all we needed was a third of a cup. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like I wanted some more rationality brought back in just to keep it just to keep me riveted right and it could it could still be

batched I just needed just a little bit more tying me to the world right right slightly more grounded yeah yes and they gave it to us but now it is a teen drama back like it used to be right but said in 1955 so it is very different like issues that they're dealing with than they would be to you know like like oh someone went all the way so oh no, they have to get married. Right, right. It's things like this. Yeah.

Which is what we've never dealt with before in Riverdale. But it is a tinch. Like I'm still kind of half waiting for like the incest blossom, bastard blossoms that live in the woods to come out and kidnap someone. And then they'll think that mothmen exist. Like I'm just waiting for that. Yeah. Hook again. I think that that's, I think the problem.

with this episode. It did have kissing. It did have a lot of sex talk. It did have the thing we like, which is like, what if you took the like problems of sexy teen high school Riverdale and put it in 1955? How, how, how interesting. And that did that well. But it had, this episode had virtually no spooky stuff, no dark stuff, no magic, no murdered, right? Like there was. There's still the overarching whole Ethel, did Ethel kill her parents? Yes. There's still that part of it and I like the mystery side of this. Yeah. Like I do, I am enjoying that and we will get into all of that soon.

Yeah. But that is it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I miss Dark Betty. Yeah. Yeah.

I think I need, I think that like it gave us a little bit of darkness in the sex last week. And the darkness in the sex this week was trigger warning assault. and don't even get me started about how angry. Oh, all right. We had to talk about the episode before I can get into how angry I am. Yes, yeah. About what happened with Ethel.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because, oh, I was mad about it. Yeah. See, I think that's why I don't think it was Boris Storo because I was so, like, outraged. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're right. Everything that happened with Julian and Ethel was very outrage-inducing. And, like, I don't particularly. think it was good. Like, I don't like, like, like that they did that. I don't think that it made

anything better. Any of our complaints about Ethel not be like Ethel always getting dumped on. I think that just continued in this week's episode. Yeah. Yeah. And it didn't make me, it made me frown. We'll get there. First, I want to talk about Cheryl and Archie. We've got to talk about Cheryl and Archie. Where did we last leave off last week that Cheryl made a lot. I, well, we didn't know at the time that it was a lie, that they went all the way at the makeout party. Right. But we find out very early on in this episode when like Archie's like, why are you telling everybody that we went all the way? We only got to like second base, which I thought was very funny.

They only got to second base. Yeah. I'm now, I'm also like, I've never done this before this season, but for some reason it's, it's Archie's like sincere earnestness of being in 1955 Archie. I'm like seeking out his New Zealand accent more. Like there's just, because he's less like dumb, Archie. And now he's like, he used to be like, why are you so dumb? And now he's like, I'm dumb on purpose because it's 195 and I don't know anything. Yeah.

And I just feel like, so I'm just like looking at KJ. Appa's face and being like, how is your Kiwi accent like seeping out in certain words? And he's really like KJ.A.F is really committing to the like, I'm just a little boy in 1995, you know, he has like such a like wonderment. Yes, and hope in his eyes. Yes, exactly. It's a very different Archie. Now, that's, I think what, like, in a very similar but different way of what I've

been looking at with Archie, because ever since we found out, re-remembered, let's say, that he's only 25 years old, there are so many scenes that I look at it and I'm like, that is not a high school student. and he's the only one that I'm looking at of just like, look, and he doesn't look like a high school student. Look at this scene. He looks like he's 40. What are you talking about? But like, it's just the lighting, Jackie.

And I'm only being hard on KJ. Appa. I know. I think that's the thing. I've just never recovered from whatever it was three weeks ago when we learned that he was like the youngest of the cast. He's 25 years old. But you know who else was also born in 1997? Ethel. Shannon purse.

I was, because I was like, I keep looking at her and being like, I can't tell if you are the age of everyone else or if you're older or what. Also, she's such a, like, she's so hot. Yes. She's so hot. So hot. And I'm so tired of them frumping her. And so, yeah, she is also, I was just like, I need to know how old she is. And she's also 25.

But yes, I digress. We are talking about Archie and Cheryl and the redheaded fest that was this episode when the redheaded family of. The Andrews went over to the Redhead family of the Blossoms. Because isn't that your worst nightmare? For not only for like things to be going around at school that you went all the way, but to come home from school. Like I think I'd be so traumatized if I came home from school. And my mom was just like, so you had sex?

I think I would have died right there and then. Like I would have just like fallen into the floor. Like I would have become pudding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that KJ.A. I actually did do a pretty good job in this episode of being like, I'm humiliated.

I am Archie Andrews. I'm the most pure boy in the world. And I didn't do it. KJ. Appa's kind of killing this season so far. I like him more in this season than I have ever liked him before. Yeah. And having a really weird emotional roller coaster around KJ.

Appa right now. Yeah. Dude. Same. And last week was the first time I'd ever like kind of found him like attractive to. Like, I don't know what is happening with me right now. Yeah, yeah, something's happening with Archie. And I will say it.

I know that we still have to, we're still on Archie and Cheryl, but I have to say that I also found Jughead really hot in this episode. Dude, don't even get me started. I fucking said the same thing to Jeff. Oh, no. I don't like that. Oh, no. But I, but it happened.

Yeah. Dude, yes. Yeah. Yes. It is this episode. See, that's why I think that, like, I was outraged. I was a little horny by this episode. I had a lot of feelings, but again, I watched it on 420.

So by the time that I, like, settled into Riverdale, I was like, okay. Why did you give me what you've got? You know, like I was just so excited for Riverdale. Oh, that's the other thing that keeps fucking me is that we have our Jersey stream on Thursday nights, my time from 8 p.m. to 9.30 p.m. So if I watch Riverdale at 9.45 p.m., it's just not happening. I can't stay awake. So that's why I'm watching it at 5.30 in the morning. But you're right.

Sometimes you really need some help. Even with a good season of Riverdale, you need some brain help in the form of alcohol or drugs to get you through it. Sometimes, man. Yeah, I get it. That or you don't watch the episodes at all and you listen to Riverdale Roundup, which welcome every week. And thank you so much for listening. Because hopefully you don't have to be really stoned to listen to this. But although I understand if you do.

Yeah. You know, if you have to self-medicate to get through Riverdale, round up the way we self-medicate to get to River. To get through Riverdale, that's okay. Because Cheryl is trying to hide her sexuality by just, you know, like giving up everything. Just to get married to Arch. It seems so unsheral-like. I guess that was the other thing about this episode that I didn't love is that it.

I mean, I get it. It's 1955 and she's gay and she's not going to be like, out and proud necessarily. On the other hand, she is Cheryl Blossom. Like, Cheryl Blossom doesn't, like, hide herself. She doesn't shrink herself. You're right. And that's what she did all this episode.

And I did not find it very Sherrily at all. But, you know, I guess she does come from a family whose father is actively committing war crimes. So maybe that is part of something to do with it, like the fear of her family. He's a war profiteer, Archie. Really? How is he a war profiteer?

He sold maple syrup to the army in a premium. He sold maple syrup to the army. One of the best lines of the episode for sure. Yes. Or profiteering with maple syrup. Clifford Blossom comes back. So essentially what happens since Cheryl is lying about this, parents find out, parents get together.

They've decided that Cheryl and Archie are to be married. Now, they've brought back Clifford Blossom in a horrendous. wig, whatever that I couldn't get past Clifford Blossom's wig in the episode because it was the elephant in the room. It was so big and it just didn't, it didn't look good. And it's not, and I feel like, and I only bring this up because I feel like it was done on purpose. The wig to make, and also like I'm sure that wigs back then like if the character, I feel like the character is wearing the wig. You know what I mean? Not like. Really? You think so. It wasn't just to make it so that everyone in the room had red hair?

It's probably what it was. But in my head, I think that the character of Clifford would wear a wig and what would a wig look like in 195. That's where I went in my brain. But again, 420. I did not give it that much thought. So I'm just saying that might be a marijuana problem or it might be a Jackie problem. I'm not sure. It wasn't a problem.

I was all aboard. I was, look at this wig act. Yes. Yeah, and so he's like a very traditional daddy, and he's like, so you're going to get married and have kids now because you've gone all the way. It's just, I imagine your family's just,

your parents having to sit down to dinner together and, like, discuss how you just banged, you know? They really do capture how painful that would be. Yes, they real, like, that whole scene, I was just like, oh God, make it stop. And how, like, Archie didn't go like, it was a lie. It was a lie. We never went all the way.

And you know what? Because Cheryl set up, which is why I think also part of the reason why I'm like, look at Archie. Yeah. Like, so just because he is that stand-up 1555 kind of guy when, like, she's like, you would be doing it to protect me. And he didn't ask any questions about it. He's like, okay, I'll protect you.

I, you know, I'll protect anyone that needs help, like that kind of like. And that is very consistent with Archie's character. Yes. So her being like, I, can you just maintain this lie to help me? And him being like, yeah, no problem is very, very Archie. Yeah. So that's, that's true. And that, I mean, it was a great scene, the like extremely like tense loaded dinner scene.

And of course, Mary Andrews hates the blossoms. Yes. And so it's just like really, really tense. I just like, I don't know, it's hard to have a scene with like Cheryl and Penelope when like Cheryl's not going after Penelope, you know? She was just so not Cheryl in this episode. And maybe that's part of just like her light is out because she can't be yourself. Yeah, no, you're right.

And it is. And even if you take Cheryl Blossom, but you put her in 1955, maybe she can't shine bright like a diamond that she is, you know. But like there's got to be like big. witchy queen bees from 1955. It's not like those people didn't exist. And she already was that earlier in the season. She was like,

I mean, the reason that she knows she's gay is because she keeps flirting with Tony, you know, like, because she just can't help it. And so, but,

but yeah, I mean, I think that she, I guess, I guess the kind of, the Cheryl plot is that she is so, you know, it's so clear to her that her mom

is like trying to shut her down and that she's so scared of being gay that she just, like has to bury herself and not be Cheryl. And so I guess that I'm willing to go along with that. It was just like, I feel like for a Blossom dinner scene, it like wasn't very eventful.

You know, like in the history of Riverdale, if you have Penelope Blossom and Cheryl Blossom and Archie Andrews, you know, and fucking the dad all sitting around at a table, like that scene should be very explosive. And the win. Right. And the win. But it was just kind of like, yeah, they're building this.

I mean, hopefully Cheryl's arc will like come out of this into something really like, you know, some pride moment, you know. I mean, we're already seeing the tides start to turn because essentially they get to a point where the parents have decided that they are going to get married. It's not a question. They go in for their marriage compatibility test. Right. Which consists of three questions. Do you come from different backgrounds? Are you close friends?

Which I love. Do you come from different backgrounds? And their answers couldn't have been more different of just like how rich and proper Cheryl's family is. And I will also say Jeff did have his pedantic corner as what he referred to as because Archie says, Grandpa Ardy and his wife barely survived the Dust Bowl. and Jeff had to pause it and be like, okay, this is 1955. Arguably, the Dust Bowl started like 1934, 1935. Are we going to, and so we went through of like how he's like,

technically that could, I guess, work, but there's a high chance that that is not the case. They come from very, very different backgrounds. See, this is what I'm sure you miss not watching it with Gideon. You know, you need, I need someone that is my cynical side piece. to my hope and love of Riverdale. Yes, yeah. You do need someone to just like,

it's like to make sure you're not having a dream. You know, you need to like look over and be with somebody who is like, no, no, this is happening, you know? This is happening. This is real. Yeah. So then they are also asked,

are you close friends? And they are both like, they kind of awkwardly look at each other. And that's their answer. And then the last question is, do you understand the concept of marriage? And I don't think they did that. either and yet still they were allowed to they were like they're allowed to get married now they

they can go get married yeah yeah and i was just listening to uh this great podcast called if books could kill it it was they they go through like terrible bestseller books and they did the love languages book the five love languages and they go through and it was written i can't remember i think the first edition was written in the i want to say either 80s or 60s and a lot long enough ago that the basically it was a conversation about how many people, if you're looking at couples who got together in the 50s and 60s, like basically got together because like they couldn't fuck and they wanted to fuck, you know. And I do feel like it is really worth remembering how many people in our grandparents' generation like absolutely 100% would not have gotten married

if it weren't for the fact that people were not supposed to fuck. Yeah. And people wanted to fuck. And like that did, I do think that this episode did a really good job of being like, again, just like last week, like if they're like, what if you were gay in 1955? Really, like, really imagine it with these characters who you know from the present day. Really imagine how hard that would be. Like, I do think that this episode did a really good job of being like, no, really. Imagine you're just a horny teenager and because you're horny and because people think you fucked. Now you literally have to get married.

like that's actually what the expectation was. And they did do a great job of that with both Archie and Cheryl and also with Midge and Fangs. Oh, man. And like the kind of like oppressive, the like chastity piece of the 1955 setting. That's like that was this episode was like that turn to shine. And I do think that they really did convey very well that like people would just legit be forced into marriage like this.

And of course that was a bad idea. And this is probably why many people in our grandparents' generation did not have happy marriages. Yeah, dude. Because then you're kind of trapped because it wasn't like, oh, you can just get divorced. You know, we know that that wasn't, the idea and concept of divorce was not quite the same then as it is now. Right. It's not as much of a black stain on your life as it used to be. Now, they are really, and I'll give it to Cheryl and Archie.

They're really trying. They go out for milkshakes. They like try to have some like time alone so they can just kind of get to know each other. And they are expanding on like who they are as people a little bit and trying to open up a little bit more. Which I did also really like Archie for doing that. Yeah. He was trying to like let Cheryl in and talk about like some private stuff he had with his father and like about how he wanted to go out to California and become a cowboy. And I actually thought it was a really like we paused it at one point.

and looked at each other, we were just like, when did this get so wholesome? Yeah. Like, it was such a, this storyline was so, I mean, I don't like the idea of forced marriage, but like they're taking to it of just like, okay, well, let's, but, okay, then what would make us happy? Right.

If just getting married, like, why don't we alone? Right. Why don't we go and just like run away together? And then we can do whatever we want. We can get married the way that we want. We don't have to like deal with them. at all, but like still they were going to go alope because that's just what you did. Right.

And I actually, I thought it was a really sweet thing. And he gets all ready and they're going to go. They're going to go out to California. They're going to, he's going to go be a rancher. She's going to go with him. And then she shows up in a little red convertible and it's just like, oh, sorry, can't. Busy. Sick.

Can't do it. Yeah. Not going to do it. And you know what? Gofah. Very good for her. And why does she do that? because Tony, which Tony was like the fairy godmother of this episode.

Yeah, agree. A little bit. Like everybody goes to Tony. The one in I like that Tony is the one in 195 who's like, I'm black, I'm queer. I'm like proud. I'm with it. Like I understand. I can like clock people.

I can tell that there's a bunch of queer people around here. Like I'm an activist. Like I love all of that. This episode they did kind of, I feel like they did kind of make her like a push it a little. Yeah, it's like a little bit like a magical like, you know, the kind of like magical black trope of like, I just know everything and I solve everyone's problems. A little bit.

Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. It was everywhere you turned like, oh, there's Tony. Solve and the problem. Because what does Tony do? She takes Cheryl and gives her the book. So I did look up this book.

She gives her a book called The Cost of Pepper. And I was like, so all right. They openly showed the title. So of course I looked at the cost. of pepper. It is not a real book, but there was a real book that held a similar function for women struggling with understanding their sexualities in the 1950s. And that book was called The Price of Salt by Patricia Highsmith. So they called Price of Salt, the Cost of Pepper. And that is where clam riche moment over here. All right, Riverdale. Never stop doing that. I like that. Never stop.

I loved it. I was just like, yes, this is why I looked these things up. Okay, but how about, if we're talking about magical Tony, how about the way that she used a frog as a pregnancy test for Midge and Fangs? Bro, we looked it up. Is that real? It's real. It's fucking real, dude.

Everybody needs a Jeff. Like, Jeff has the, Jeff is the, he's the guy. Jeff has the sobriety and the curiosity and the energy to be like, we're going to look it up and I don't have that. Pause it, look it up. Yeah. Pause it, looked it up because, so we've got another couple in another situation. And that is Fangs and Midge.

Midge is all done knocked up. And they don't know what to do because Midge is from the other side of the tracks. Well, no, Fangs is from the other side of the tracks. Midge is from the first side of the tracks. And Midge is from a rich family. And Fangs, as we know, is Greesa. And also, fangs looks hot. in 1955.

Yes, I'm loving 1955 Fangs more than I expected to. Really attracted to 1955 Fangs. Really, like, I was not, like, I was attracted to Fangs originally when he was first with Kevin, but then he kind of lost it for me, not in looks, but just in character-wise.

Yeah. But there's something about this Fangs, man, that I'm just like, hmm, oh. Yeah, it's also nice knowing that he's by. Yes. You know, I feel like a guy is just hotter when he's by. Oh, yes. And especially,

dressing like a greaser. Okay. Yeah, yeah. But they go to Midge's family to try and just introduce him as a boyfriend. The family flips out and he doesn't know what to do. And that's why they do go to Tony and Tony's like, well, if you want to find out if you're really pregnant. And for some reason, they had to break into the school to do this. She gets a frog and I guess you inject the frog. with the piss.

It's a frog piss test. The piss of a pregnant woman. And if the woman is pregnant, the frog will have lay eggs overnight because it's some chemical in the piss. That's real? Yes, it's real. Jesus Christ.

I wish that that was what a pregnancy test was still. Yeah, man, that would be, to go out and catch the frog. No, you would go to the Dwayne Reed, you'd get a little frog. frog, you know. But then there would have to be, you would have to like, then there would have to be a rule where you, like, set the frog free in a nice little pond afterwards. Yes. But also, Fangs is really virile because he's knocking up people in every one of these timelines, you know. There's baby. Right, right. I was thinking that too. It's like Fangs is just destined, almost a doomed, but I'm destined to be to be a father. No, he's the stud of Riverdale. And we don't know what's going to happen with them, but we do know that is in fact pregnant because, man, did that frog squirt out a bunch of eggs? I'm, I can't believe that you guys looked at it.

And I can't believe it's real. I'm so glad. We really do need Jeff. Jeff is the hero of Riverdale Roundup. Yes. I mean, and Tony's the fairy godmother. Tabitha is the guardian angel. And Jeff is the hero of Riverdale.

Don't tell Archie. And so, yeah, so we had our fangs and midge plot. We had our Cheryl and Archie Platt. But also, can we just say when I say real quick, when Tony says, can you dig it, Big Daddy? I thought I was going to fall through the floor. I'm so in love with Tony. Tony is, I know, I know.

Tony is looking so, so good. Wow. Wow. Yeah. The fits of the 60s just, or 50s just look really good. Yes. Of Vanessa Morton. And you know who else looks really, really, really good in 1950s outfits?

Fucking Lily Reinhart, man. Man, she's killing it. She just looks so, canil. Never before do I, like, look at, like, a 1950s, like, someone wearing, like, a 1950s housewife dress and be like, hamala, hama, hama, hama, you know, but she just rocks it. Man, 195's got us all, maybe it's all because we can't be as horny. Yeah. And, like, maybe that's what it is.

We're just like, I'm so sexually attracted to them all this season in a way that I haven't been in so long. Yeah. And yes, so poor Betty, Betty is, Betty breaks up with Kevin. They put it down on the line. That scene was great, too, though, actually, because, like, yeah, I loved this scene. Kevin sits down with her. Well, Betty has given Kevin the book, the human sexuality book. and that she stole from Ethel.

And he, you know, reads it and then comes back and is basically like, okay, so I think that I like understand what you want. And it's sex. He doesn't say that, but he's like, and I want to wait until marriage. And she gets this kind of like crestfallen look and she like takes a beat and pauses. And then she's just like, okay. Well, actually, I don't want you to be the only one making decisions in this relationship. And then she breaks up with him.

And it was, I was like, fuck yeah, man. Yeah, dude. Like, it was really, there was something about, it was like an unexpected twist, like, of Kevin just being like, well, you know, these are my, this is my, like, boundary and these are my ground rules and her being like, okay, well, you didn't, like, you're not respecting me. Talk with me about it. At all.

And you just made this decision. And I'm not accepting that decision. And so the relationship was over. And I, like, I, like, absolutely loved it. And then that frees up. Kevin to go slow dance with, what's his name? Clay at the gay coffee house. He's going to the dark room because he went to the gym after Betty broke up with him and he was

crying and Clay was there. So Clay and he go to go get a coffee at the dark room and they end up slow dancing together. And Tony was trying to cheer up because again, Tony, the fairy godmother Riverdale, was trying to cheer up Betty because she realized that the two of them broke up because she found Betty crying. Similar to how Clay found Kevin crying, but if Tony and Betty wanted to start kissing, I would watch that tape. That would be fine. Heart beat, but that is not what was happening.

I think she was just trying to, like, get her out of, you know, just sitting on the floor and crying, and why don't we go talk about this? because, and I appreciated the fact that Tony at first assumed that it was Betty that wanted to wait till marriage. And Betty's like, no, he wanted to wait until marriage. Yeah. And I think that that, you watch the respect for Betty rise in Tony, which I'm like, I loved that. Yeah, you're totally right. When Tony realizes that it's Betty who wants to have sex, you can see Tony being like, okay, yeah.

Okay. And I do like to, like, the way. way that they're trying to kind of like give each character these like you know characteristics and stuff that were present in their present day selves like i i love that the manifestation of like dark betty for betty in 195 is that she's just really horny and she like doesn't she doesn't want to be with like a chaste you know man and i love that that's like her driving it's not serial killing it's not darkness it's just like she just really wants to fuck she wants to fuck dude And like she's straight up.

So she goes to like give Kevin the pin back. And she tells him that like I saw you with Clay. And I appreciate that he didn't even try to be like, well, he did for like half a second that he's like, oh yeah, we were just goofing. And she's like, no, you weren't. And he's like, yeah, no, we weren't. And they have a really sweet scene together. Yeah. where she's like, you know, like she eventually she leaves and she comes back to him and has like she has processed it more.

Yeah. And this is after talking to Alice who Alice. Fucking Sabatour. Alice is being crazy in the in this season. Alice Cooper like going home to mom and like she's just like it's just a phase, Betty. He's just going through a phase. And what you have to do is you have to be there for him and you have to support him. So when he's done with his phase, then you can have a sexless marriage.

And I, the way she protested this so hard, Jeff Posit looked at me and was just like, do you think that Alice had a lesbian phase? And I was like, oh my God, if that's like, if that's why like me thinks she doth protest too much is what is happening that maybe Alice had a lesbian phase. And in my brain she had a lesz, like, I want her to have a lesbian phase with like, I don't know who it's going to be with. but especially in this world we have a very small window

of the amount of people maybe it was with Mary I don't know I'm just saying I would love that I'm just saying maybe it was I know because Alice Cooper is like very Alice Cooperie in this season which I like it's just like

rather than Alice Cooper being fucking insane about again her serial killer husband or her serial killer son or you know the various serial killers running about town in this season she's just absolutely fucking insane about her daughter. Like she desperately wants her to be with Kevin.

And she keeps giving her absolutely terrible advice. And I just kind of figured that was like, that was the way they're making Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper. She's just a bad mom. But if they were to add a little bit of gayness to the parental generation, that would be very welcome. Yes, that would be very, very welcome.

Sorry, I was just reading through some of the Riverdale theories that we're going to be discussing later on when we get to some Ethel conversations a bit. So let's breeze through the Jughead and Veronica plotline and then let's talk about Ethel. We need to talk about Ethel. Oh, yes. We need to talk about how we talk about Ethel.

Because Veronica really stepped up in this episode. I'm loving this plot line. Yes, and I'm really enjoying Jughead as the detective, like getting back into that. I'm really, and like I always thought like I was a bughead hardcore. I was just like, when are right, sure, sure, let's have all this play around when are Betty and Jughead could get back together because I like them as a detective team so much. And that was what you predicted last week. Yes.

But we're not getting the Betty and Jughead detective team. We are getting the Veronica is a Hollywood kid who knows all about all of the noir movies that Jughead loves. and so they are the Nick and Nora like, you know, noir detectives together in this episode and I actually loved it. See, look, I said this was a Boris Nora episode in every single storyline so far

has actually been really good and well done. So this shows you- I think he's watched it at 530. You know, I think it really is like watching it and just like going back through the plots like, no, this was a good episode. And it's just so like, think about the entirety of the Percival season

and how much happened in those episodes that was just straight up garbage. And in this, even though there wasn't like a lot of darkness or spice in this episode, it was like the character development is just so much better, so much better. Yeah. And like they are just like really finding what makes the characters fun. And it's like Jughead and Veronica being like the noir detectives is such a fucking good idea because it brings out the best that Veronica has to offer, which is that she's like,

you know, she can be her like sassy, very. and she will fall Wall Street thing. But instead of being like an annoying capitalist, she's like a detective, which is way more appealing. Yes. And I, and she's killing it alongside Jughead because essentially up top, then like from last week, Jughead and Ethel are in hot water right now because of the,

you know, the drawing that Ethel did of her murdering her parents and Jughead for hiding the evidence, which was really, really dumb. and essentially Veronica sees them because this is like interrogation is happening at the school and they're bringing them into the prison for questioning

and for some reason he has the ability to stop and talk with Ronnie for a second and she's like yeah but you were at the dance there's no way that you committed this murder and he's like well can you like figure out a way to like

tell them that I was at the dance so she goes and I was disappointed because I thought we were going to get a 1950 version of Dr. Curdle Jr. I'm throwing it down here now that I'm mad that we didn't get Dr. Curdle Jr. I know. They said every town has a morgue and, you know, a mortician or whatever.

And I was like, fuck yeah, we're going to get the 1955 Dr. Curdle Jr. And that was a total tease. Total, total tease. Because Veronica does go to the corner to get like the time of death. And we don't even see the scene. I can't believe that. You cannot mention the morgue and the coroner in Riverdale without having a Dr. Colonel Jr.

Dr. Colonel Jr. Like what are you doing? That is a string of this. We have to have him. Yes. Thank you for bringing that up. Yes.

And I'm glad that you noticed it as well. So she goes in. So eventually Ronna. Veronica goes into the prison and says here. Here's your time of death stamp. Jughead was with me. You have to let him go. And so they let him go.

Sheriff Keller's like, okay. All right, sure, yeah, no. This is just child is doing my work for me. Great. They let him go. And then they have to get Ethel out as well. And they have to prove that Ethel wasn't, like that she was on her way to the dance at the time. Right.

They find out through the grapevine that Ethel was actually with Julian because she was about, she was waiting for the bus. to take her to the dance and shitbag Julian shows up. Julian Blossom. You know what? I'm glad that we are supposed to hate him. Yeah, I'm glad that I don't have to feel bad for calling him ugly so much because he's an ugly

personality. He's an ugly personality because I appreciated this. Van Ile Lexi from our Twitch community wrote in a Riverdale theory that said, I totally agree with you. they're doing Ethel dirty because essentially what happens is like meanwhile Julian is a potential option for Veronica in what universe right I was going to suggest why not Julian and Ethel get together but after watching episode three I find Julian too icky yes for anyone because he takes her instead of taking her to the dance he takes her to lover's lane and puts hands on her and tries to attempts to

attack her yes in the car so why Tell me why? Why do we have to do this to the only fat character in the show where everybody, nobody likes her except for a jughead. She pines after Jughead and every time she expresses that jughead's like, ooh. And she has no love interest and she's just like sad and frumpy. And then she gets assaulted. Like, can we not, can we please make Ethel less of a sad, dumpy character? Please give her some agency.

Give her something. It's not fair. I was not fair. I was outraged. Yes. Yes. I was like, I want her to get play, but this is not the play that I'm fucking talking about. I'm sorry, universe and I have to say I want Ethel to get consensual play. I know. I'd like her to get consensual play, please. I know. And I just don't, like, I, like, she basically, Barb was almost the exact,

Barb and Stranger Things, like, almost the exact same character as Ethel in terms of, like, everybody just, like, treating her, all the kids, like, not treating her well. but like the fact that the actor who plays Ethel just like has to keep being like, ooh, I'm so sad. You know, I just feel like it's such, I just feel like they are doing Ethel so, so dirty. And then using her as like a tool to like show what a dick Julian Blossom is. I like, this was the one plotline where I was like, I really feel like this is like a huge mistake on the writer's part in Riverdale.

Yeah, really upset by this. Yeah. That is how they prove where she was. And this is the part that got me so attracted to Jughead because he finds out about what happened. And he goes to Julian and he's like, you're going to go to the police and you're going to say what you were doing. Or at least the fact that you were with Ethel at the time of her parents' murder or else or else. Yeah. And he's like, I'm Julian Blossom.

I can't say I was with a girl like her. And of course they had to like, it wasn't even that like they still, like, the fact that this shitbag character still had to be like, I wouldn't have put the moves on a fat woman. Yeah. Essentially is what he's saying. Right. And that, and he was too embarrassed to admit that. And that also outrage and her. I know it's 1955.

I know that like characters are allowed to be bad and they're allowed to say that. But it's still hurt my feeling. Yeah. It was like, again, like this is just one of those things where it's like in the fictional. world we create, we don't have to only recreate, like, trauma. If there is a certain identity that is more likely to experience trauma in real life, like, because of, like, their marginalized identity, we do not have to explicitly only exclusively recreate that trauma in our fictional stories. We can create different narratives around those marginalized identities. And we could have the fat

actress or the fat character be hot. Like, she is hot. What I mean is we could have her be seen as received as hot. Like exude as hot. Red as hot. Like, yes. Julian could be like, yeah, I want to get with Ethel. Like all of these worlds are possible. This is, you can just, you can do this. And I know it's 195, but you could do it. Like, we also had different, there was

different beauty standards in 1950. It's just like so frustrating. I found this entire thing to just be like the nail in the coffin of the doing Ethel dirty situation that has been going on for years. I know. Outrage. It also just doesn't work because the actress is really hot. It just like does not

like it doesn't read as honest you know. I do want to throw out just a quick this is from before but Caitlin sent in a theory that can also be used for now that one of the helpful mothmen

from the incest mothmen blossoms from the woods could have been Julian. Maybe that's why Julian is like maybe that he was born and he was throwing it into the forest. Because we still haven't figured out why it's Julian and not, you know, what's the real one's name? JJ. Like, I guess that's, I think that one of the, this is what Riverdale will do to you watching it for this many years. One of the things that made

me so confused about this episode is that like, not, like, aside from each of the main characters having their plot line and all those plot lines actually fitting together pretty nicely, which is what a TV show should do. But not much else happened. They're not like bringing back all these million threads that they have planted, right? There's no, there's still no explanation.

Why, Julian? Like, there's no, like, there's just a lot of unanswered questions. Yes. And none of those were moved forward in this episode. This episode was just like, this was the only theme of this.

If last week's episode theme was sex, the only real theme of this episode was like, I guess, horniness stifled by the life of 1955. Right, because then it ended up being that, you know, Cheryl and Archie don't get married. And Ethel is not, now Ethel does get out of jail. So at least now, Jughead and Ethel are not on the line

for the murders anymore. So that did happen. Yeah. And in all of this, like in all of their sleuthing together, I mean, something did happen. A love did grow in this episode. And I was at first. So I was talking with a good friend of mine, Jasmine.

We were talking about the fact that like is Jughead going to be more of like the not wanting romantic relations like he was in the comic books, which I thought was going to be the way that they were going with Jughead. Because I didn't feel any. heat between him and Ronnie whatsoever. Like, I felt it coming from Ronnie. Oh, I felt it coming from Jughead. That was why I was so attracted to him in this episode. Oh, I was attracted to him. Oh, I forgot to say before.

I was attracted to him when he punched Julian in the face. Yes. And made him go. On behalf of Ethel. That was nice. That's when I was like, oh. Yes. And he really punched it.

It was like a real 19. He was like an undercut, you know, but it was like, it was really like, that was a great and attractive thing to do. It really was. I know it's like just dumb masculinity, but there's something about that of just like, you bet, like you're just like, you're gonna go.

Yes. Tell the police. It's just like how he was talking about Ethel. No, that was good. He stood up for Ethel, but it wasn't in like a condescending way. It was just like, it'll fuck you.

You do not assault my friend. I'm gonna punch you and you're gonna go exonerate her. That was really hot. I don't know. I thought that Jughead was making eyes at Veronica in a way that really, really did something for me. Especially in that last scene.

Yeah. When like they're both of the Pembroke. and they're both having just a conversation. And this is after, like, his, like, Jughead's place gets destroyed, and his dog was taken to the pound by the police because they were looking for evidence. They destroyed his whole place. So Veronica, like, re-does the whole thing because she's got a bunch of money and she makes it look like the Orient Express inside of his, like, train car that he lives

inside of, while Jughead is going to go get hot dog out of the, the pound because they took the dog to the pound. Yeah, I like her redoing the train car to look like a like 1950s elegant train car. That was pretty cool. Yes, I loved that. I love that they, and I love that they were working together. And I kind of am into, I thought that it was just a little blaze. Like, I didn't know if Jughead was even into her back until that last scene.

And that last scene was a great scene. It's just so, like, do you remember how. And maybe am I about to say that Cole Spouse is a really good actor? Because you remember how in the season where he was like a sad alcoholic? And like I was truly convinced that Cole Spouse had become a sad alcoholic. He like looked all puffy and he just like exuded this like real patheticness that was also what Jugheads care. Like this was in the time jump forward when he was like a writer in his mid-20s like in New York, whatever. And like I was fully convinced that that just.

was Cole Spouse also because of what we do about like him and Lily Reinhardt breaking up and whatever. And then in this season, I'm, because we're supposed, he's like, he's, he's like 955 Jughead and he's wearing the 1955 clothes and he's like a much more likable character. You know, he's the Gumshoe detective, whatever. And now I'm like, Cole Spouse back on track. Like I am completely unhealthily conflating Cole Spouse with Jughead. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I'm trying, I'm trying to keep them separate in my brain. Like, Jackie, you're allowed to be attracted to Jughead. Yeah.

You're, this is okay. Because also, again, like, not only allowed to because he's a character that doesn't exist, but also it's okay, even though he's in high school because he is a 30-year-old man. Yes. And, like, I'm dealing with all those feelings as well. But, you know, just sticking up for a plus-lized person who just been assaulted just makes me, you know, week. Yes.

Yes. It was very, very hot. Or just any person that's been assaulted. I don't know why I had to qualify. I just, Ethel just makes me sad. Okay?

Yes. It's completely, it's really like a glaring, like in a show that does so many things well in terms of normalizing queerness and, you know, doing some of their representation. Again, it's like, you know,

Tony hot, queer, black character, awesome, a magical fairy godmother in a really one-dimensional way. Not so awesome. So it's not like they always nail it when it comes to representation and identity stuff, but they're obviously always trying, which is why it is so weird that they're not trying at all with Ethel to have like a more positive representation of a woman who looks like her. It's just like, why would you, this is such a missed opportunity again to be like,

we're Riverdale and we do a good job with things. Like if we don't do a good job with. plot, we at least do a good job with having queer characters and whatever. And in this, in Ethel, they are just like absolutely fumbling. And I hope that this is some sort of long con where, like, Ethel will turn out to be like a more fully dimensional character who is able to feel like hot and is able to experience love and like, or she went home after the assault and did kill her parents. Yes.

If she's the killer, I will also love that. that. Like, that will be, but, and I guess that was, you know, the first episode

of the season ended with, it was like teen drama, teen drama, and the Nethel bursts in covered in blood. And we were like, fuck yeah,

now we're talking. And I guess this episode, whilst I have realized in the course of this Riverdale Roundup that it actually was not boros nor all of the plot lines were really good. I,

I want the murder and the blood to come back. You know, I need to know where we're going with this. And I do, want to call out again Van I. Alexi for their theory for the season of Riverdale. I predict that when they are wrapping up this season, Tabitha slash the Angel will time jump slash time travel, all of them back to the first episode of the first season. This would create a time loop, an endless replaying of the past seven years over and over. While this isn't ideal, it would prevent the apocalypse. By ending this way,

it would also be easy to reboot the show. show in 10 years. Whoa. And I really do, I appreciate the time and the thought put into this. Wow. And thank you so much, Lexi, for sharing that with us. And then you would have Julian as one brother and JJ as the other brother. Yeah, dude.

Yeah, dude. Just like, it's like the folding of time, you know, like when they explain the time travel where it's like, you fold and like the go for one thing. Yeah. I'm smart. Man, if there's one thing I know about, it is time travel theories and science. And you heard that here first, folks. Thank you guys so much for joining us on this episode of Riverdale Roundup.

And we're not going to be here next week because LPN as a whole is on break. So there would be no one for to make the content and for to put the science and the content to make the content. to make the content be in your ears. So next week, we will not be back with Riverdale Roundup, but we will be back the following week with a double episode where we go through both episodes of Riverdale. So don't worry, you're going to get every fucking thought that we have about these episodes. Don't you worry.

We are not going to miss. I know Passover had us be late with the last week, and we're going to be on tour at a couple of weeks, but we aren't going to miss a thing, people. We are not going to miss a thing about this season. Don't want to close your eyes. We are loving. Don't want to fall asleep.

I miss Riverdale, baby. And I don't want to miss you, Riverdale. But we have to. Thank you so much, MJ. Thank you everyone for listening. And we will be back in a couple of weeks. Bye. This show is made possible by listeners like you.

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