Page 7 - Riverdale Roundup Ch. 125: Doesn't That Sound Like A Jackieism?

Episode Date: May 19, 2023

Here's hoping the Riverdale writers enjoy this week's episode! Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser are going on TOUR! Dates and links to tickets at lastpodcastnetwork.com Support us on our Patreon page and get weekly bonus Patreon-exclusive content! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast Intro song by Green Dreams Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, page 7 and Wizard and the Brewser are going on tour. Yes, the release that Butthole Cut Tour. Holden, where are we going? That's right. Starting in June, we are going to Portland, Oregon, Tacoma, Washington, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, and St. Louis, Missouri. Where can we get tickets, MJ? For tickets, go to Last Podcast Network.com.

What's that one more time? That's Last Podcast Network.com. Yeah. Noice. Baby Red G's back. All right. Oh my God. How happy and how horny are you?

Wow. I am just beside myself. So at first I was just like Southern accent, Reggie is here. What is happening? And I was like, all right, let's see how this goes. And then I fell in love. I think the drinking game for this episode would be you have to drink every time Reggie goes, well, we don't have that down in the dark creed.

Because he just keeps saying that. And it's like, we get it. You are a farmer. He's a farmer. I don't know if you know this. I don't know if you got this, but things aren't like that around Duck Creek. So you better watch out, MJ. And, whoa, weird.

What? Sorry, I just looked up Duck Creek real quick because I wanted to see if it was a real place. And it says Duck Creek Technologies and the CEO is Michael Jackowski. It's like a mixture of my names. Wow. That's my names. That's my name. That's Jackowski.

Whoa. Oh, my God. This means something. I'm taking this as a sign. I hear you. I see you. And I'm taking it as a sign that I'm supposed to be in love with Reggie. That Reggie and I are meant to be together for MFEO.

And you can't take that away from me. Oh, that was the laugh that I needed today. Jackowski. That's my names. Question mark. Both my names. Oh, man. I want to start being called Jackowski.

now. I mean, Jackowski is a good, that is a good little. Great last name. What do they call it a port? Well, I think, I don't know if it is like in the way that Cher is just shared. Do you know that she's just share on her like license? Really? And on everything.

She went to court and got it so that she, her name is just share. See, if she can change her ID, so should everybody be able to. Yeah, I'm just as well known as Share. So it's like, just change me to Jackowski. Just one name, please. No, we're talking about Reggie because, oh, the Bulldogs aren't. So now Riverdale in 2023 is a football town. Yeah, I was going to say, why is Riverdale in 1955 a basketball town when it's season one of Riverdale very much introduced us to Riverdale as a football town.

So I'm very glad that you also notice that discrepancy. Oh, yeah. Obviously, we've had basketball in Riverdale before, but since when is Riverdale a fucking basketball town? Excuse me. Maybe it's because Fred Andrews died in the Korean War and they've never been good at basketball since. Yeah, it died with him and isn't that horrific? And so the way that we get our return of Reggie, which I am very happy about, by the way, as with almost everything about the season, I like 195, Reggie, much better than present day Reggie. And Uncle Daddy brings him. in to be the kind of savior for the shitty basketball team that is suffering now that Archie is not as good at basketball as his dad was. And this, basically, if you have been following this season of Riverdale Roundup and not this season of Riverdale, the big broad theme of this season of Riverdale is let's look at all of the horrors of life, American life in

1955 through the lens of the present day, which again, I got to say, they're doing a great job. and this one was wow look at Asian American racism anti-American Asian anti-American Asian racism and it is very like you know I think pretty well done to have it all be seen through Archie's eyes fucking idiot naive Archie who thinks everybody is fine and everything is good and Reggie's like yeah people are really shitty to me because I'm an Asian American and

Archie's like what? Why? Got Nortel? And that's basically the big idea of this show. And I got to say, I think from my, you know, admittedly limited perspective, I think they did it well. It seemed like it was like a really actually, they gave more to Reggie in this episode than they had for the previous six seasons in terms of character development, you know. Oh, yeah. And like I'm glad that his character development is not just, oh, he gets abused by his father.

I'm really glad that's not his backstory anymore. And it's not just everyone's racist to him. Like they're actually giving him and also they're bringing in racism, you know, anti-black racism as well with Tabitha and Tony. And I feel like Riverdale is doing a very good job of not just doing the thing that I keep complaining about that they're doing with Kevin, which is just like, this is a character who has a sad storyline because it's just sad, sad, sad, and bad, bad, bad. And like, they did a great job of being like every, this is what like really shitty. sometimes subtle, sometimes not subtle racism looks like for Reggie. And also, like, here's what Reggie has going on. You know, like, I feel like they actually made Reggie like a decently multidimensional

character in this episode, you know? And again, with the ascento, I was very scared up top. I was just like, oh, God, what's this going to be? I thought he did a really good job because it wasn't so much an accent as it was like a mouth movement thing. Like, I wonder if he worked with like a vocal coach to make him sound differently to like really give a juxtaposition, not to be like, theater cadre over here of just talking about, you know, those kinds.

I don't know if they would even have a vocal coach on Riverdale, but maybe they do. Because I thought that he didn't, like, anyone could just kind of talk like this. I'm a culture boy. But I thought that he, like, he pronounced well. Like, he's still, you know, I feel like there's a really easy way to do it and there's a harder way to do it. And it seems like Reggie was doing it the harder way. Totally.

I love the idea of all. these actors who've been on Riverdale for seven years being like, this is my opportunity to act the fuck out of a storyline. And yeah, so he's like, I thought he was pretty good. He did good, you know, it's, yeah, and it's all, you know, it's Riverdale. So it's all pretty vague. He's like, vaguely, like, from the country. We still don't really know where Riverdale is geographically, unless it's where actual Riverdale is. But obviously, show Riverdale bears zero resemblance to actual Riverdale, which is a part of the Bronx. But we're meant to know that it's near New York, so maybe it's kind of where real

Riverdale is. But so if he's like from the country, it's unclear if that means like upstate New York or like the vaguely south. Like it's just not clear. It's got to be upstate New York. I love that they go to visit just to talk about generic. They go to visit the farm. And no, there's not like, they don't really show the farm or show any animals or anything.

No, but they do have a whole scene of Reggie having a conversation while just like hauling hay bales, because that's what you do on a farm. Generic farm, that is. Very generic. Move the hay bales on the farm. Yes, it's unclear what, right, this is not like a family farm. It seems to be a business, his family's business, but it's all very vague. But Uncle Daddy's like, we need like an outsider to save this basketball team.

We will bring in Reggie. And yes, Reggie comes to Riverdale. Yeah, Reggie, the blur, mantle. comes in. And this is all, of course, on the dime of Clifford Blossom, who is the lead sponsor of the basketball team, because he wants the team to be good. So he is not only paying for the farm to be upkept because, again, also it is a bit of a generic backstory because his father, who used to be abusive in 2023 is not abusive anymore, but he was hurt in the army. So he can't take care of the farm anymore, which is why Reggie dropped out of school. and was helping him take care of the farm. So dad's out of the picture. Blossom's paying for the family farm. And now Reggie is staying with Archie and staying in his room.

Don't worry, I'm sure there's fanfic out there about what happens in that room. And I would read it. I wish I was better at writing. I would, I loved, I did two Riverdale fanficks back in the day of, or like slash fic. and I it's so difficult to do and I wish I could do it more because I would write that that slash fake and out there if you will write it please send it to me I'll record it you are reading so much romance though that you might just be able to kind of channel it you know just yeah do a little akitar inspired write up of what is happening between how hard they all are yeah between

and Reggie and Archie in the, in Archie's room. And so, right, we, we meet Reggie. He is, like, very subdued. He says in his first meeting with Archie and Uncle Daddy that, you know, he has a Korean parent and a white parent. And he is pretty vague, but also pretty, like, right up front says, like, people have treated him badly and people treat him differently. That scene at Stonewall prep was very upsetting. Yeah. the scene on his first day because so essentially Reggie was playing for Stonewall Prep and he goes in on his first day and he goes to unlock his locker and they had filled the whole locker with rice and then like even just like what they were saying to him that I was like I was kind of surprised at

some of the jargon that was used on Riverdale a little bit towards Reggie. I was like, whoa, I know that they're saying this as if like they're not like obviously condoning it in any way shape of form. But I'm just surprised that the CW went there. Me too. Me too, frankly. And right. And I, you know, everyone remembers how extremely skeptical I was of episode one of this season because Emmett Till played such a big part of it. And I was like, I don't know if I trust issues of this depth in the hands of Riverdale. But yeah, I will say that like as somebody who I did not learn anything about like, you know, internment camps during World War II, I did not know anything about the history of anti-Asian

American, you know, hate, hate and discrimination and racism in this country, particularly, you know, at this time in 1955 post-World War II and post-Korean War, that I thought that, yeah, I was impressed with how Riverdale was like, we are not going to like go soft on this. We're actually going to show how really vicious this, this, you know, the Stonewall Prep kids are just vicious to Reggie. And Archie, Archie,

this is the one time where Archie being a fucking idiot is same as last week. I love like Archie learning these life lessons over here. Kevin's gay. Why is everyone so upset that Kevin doesn't seem to like girls? Who cares? And then now with this,

I'm just like, who cares that he's like, he's just like, what of the guys. There's no racism in Riverdale. And this is the part of the episode that I really want to emphasize was very well done because Archie being the foil of like the well-meaning, everybody's good here. And it actually is great because his whole thing, he is inexplicably loved Riverdale for this entire time, despite what Riverdale has done to him. He's always defending Riverdale. He's always like, this town, this town has heart. Even when it didn't have a fire department, he was defending Riverdale. And so it makes, it's completely in keeping.

with Archie's character that he meets this peer who is like describing his very real lived experience of racism. And Archie's like, and he doesn't deny it. Archie doesn't, he's like, I'm so sorry that happened to you at Stonewall. Luckily, we're not like that here at Riverdale. And Reggie's like, uh, you might want to like think about that and be open to the idea that maybe you are like this in Riverdale. And so then Archie's little mind gets blown again when he goes to the Blossoms basketball booster fundraiser party and he notices, because Reggie has planted a little seed in his brain, Archie notices that other people are racist too. And in Riverdale, there are... And of course, the blossoms are racist. Of course. The blossoms are the most racist of all,

which, yes, of course, they are the rich people who own the town. Of course they're racist. And so he hears the blossoms just being awful. Uh, and, racist about Reggie and little naive but incredibly well-meaning Archie is like, ah, man, I don't want to stand for this. But also, who is that other? Okay, they're at this, they're at this booster. He's talking to, uh, he's talking to Clifford Blossom and they're just talking about how it's so great to have somebody good on the team.

But that in this conversation, there was another dude that said a racist, that was like, I can't believe you're letting a. Yeah. And then they, they, they, interrupted him talking about they couldn't believe that they were essentially like that Archie was allowing Reggie to stay in his room. And at first, of course, because I jumped to fanfic and I was like, yeah, because they're going to be kissing. And I was like, oh no, that's racist. And then I was like, who the fuck is this dude?

Wait, where did this guy come from? Yeah, who was that guy? I don't know. And I was like, did they make, like, because they didn't want to make Clifford Blossom outwardly racist if you noticed. Right. But they did, we'll make this other like, this other guy, he's racist. Totally. They did.

That's a little bit of a cop out. They're winking at the blossoms being racist. Totally. Totally. Totally. They're like, we'll have some other random guy you've never seen come in here and say the racial slur, which, yeah, again, we can debate whether they actually should have. I feel like even in modern day lessons about how awful things were before using the same

language that can be really triggering for other people. that might be good thing might not be a good thing. I feel like usually I would land on the side of not using any of those hateful words because they still have power, you know? Yes.

Which is why I was surprised there was a couple of them used and I was just like, whoa, whoa. So certainly I would be open to anybody listening who wants to... But I understood what they were trying to do. Exactly. I understand why they did what they did

because they were trying to elicit this reaction of it was just like, Jesus Christ. Right, right. And I think that they were They've been doing the same thing with the Kevin plot line of like last week had a lot of that too. The whole like he, you know, he's bent, not straight stuff where it's just like, I don't, this is really hard to hear, you know. And I think that the point is that it's hard to hear. And they are, I think, again, people can come down.

I think well-meaning people can come down on either side of a debate around this. This has been ongoing and discussions about portraying these stories, you know, in shows and movies to be like, is there value in showing the real awfulness and letting people sit with the discomfort of that? is their value in not repeating some of those things because they're still harmful. So that, you know, we can kind of flag that as like there's multiple places to land, I think, on how that part was handled. But just like last week where Archie turns into an ally for Kevin kind of by way of being a complete dumbass and then being like, he's so cute. He's like, I love Archie now.

And I'm sorry that I'm jumping to the end because I'm. I know we have a bunch of other plot lines to discuss, but in terms of this particular plot line, the fucking episode culminates with Archie punching Julian Blossom in the face for being a racist piece of shit. And it was awesome. I clapped. I was just like, yeah, Archie!

Because, like, they are in the middle of a game, and Julian is saying some racist-ass shit, and just Archie just pops him in the face. And I was like, whoa! Knacks him to the floor. And it is incredibly, satisfying. I, for one, really, really loved it. And Archie's just like, you know what? If you don't want to be Reggie's friend, then whatever. But if you're not going to play basketball with him,

then get off the fucking team. And then Reggie, who has been very, very distant the whole episode and is like clearly doesn't trust Archie because Archie's, you know, like a well-meaning white person who doesn't understand racism. After Archie, and also another hell yes to the Rivdale writers, for after that, there's a scene in the locker room where Archie says, I know you don't need saving,

but that just really pissed me off. Yeah. And he's like, I didn't do it for you. I did it for me. Like that piss. And I appreciated that. It wasn't specifically to be like this isn't about Archie being the white savior.

And it didn't feel like Archie is a white savior story. That's what I like about the way that they're using Archie. It seemed like a team. like a teen that was pissed off because you're saying shit about his friend. Like it really did feel that way. That's, that's what I've been enjoying about this season is it doesn't feel like it's about, you know, saviors and Archie being a white savior. It actually, I feel like is about the,

the, like, you know, white innocence or whatever being like crumbled, you know, being, you know, Archie is white innocence and he's looking around and being like, oh, man, this is all super fucked, you know? And like, I feel like that is such a much better narrative than a white savior. Well, yeah. And also, so many of these plot lines really follow the idea of like finding yourself and making peace and accepting who you are. Yeah. And I think that like that's what's so interesting about each one of these plot lines that are happening in these episodes, which I think is fun because that's something that Riverdale didn't really do before. Yeah, yeah, totally. And the way that Archie's entire life is just protected, in the sense, isn't even the right word,

it's just like obliviousness. Like Archie's entire life, he's just never had to think about any of this stuff. And so he's like, yeah, everything's all cool. And then he's like, wait a minute, everyone's being really shitty to Kevin. Wait a minute, everyone's being really shitty to Reggie. Fuck that.

And, and yeah, I feel like it is, you know, I think that they're handling it pretty well. And then they're peppering in the various, you know, they're giving us the sex and the hotness, like in the horror, although there's no horror in this episode. Man, that, that Cheryl and Tony scene,

when they're just fucking making out up against the locker, I was just like, okay. And I'm getting too, like, I'm in a college class right now, but there was also interesting things going on with Cheryl and Titi's plotline in this episode,

also about, like, whiteness, basically because Titi breaks up with Cheryl. and we are led to believe that after a great makeout scene. After a great makeout scene. And after a conversation with Lizzo, who is like basically calls out Titi for kind of being a player. And she's like, you like to like find closeted, like innocent girls. And then you date them because you know there's like a shelf life on it because you can kind of like be with them until as they're kind of like brisk. So hard.

I was like, whoa. Like even if someone is, can you imagine like watch it? We've all had friends that make horrific dating choices. And then can you imagine just being like laying it all out on the line just like out front of the school? Just like in the like middle of the day without like a couple of drinks in you that you're just like, no, you are. You are this. Yeah. Just calling her out so hard.

But you know what? Titi can handle it because Titi's tough. But she. Oh my God. All right. I got a boogie. Oh, every time she uses that VAM. Fifties jargon. I'm just like, I melt. I melt for her. I know. T.T. is continuing to be

extremely fine in this season. Wow. She. Oh my God. Her fits. She just is so, I'm sorry. Respectfully. I know that it's not consensual, but in my brain, it could be. I think that it's okay to thirst after a hot actor in a TV show who is made to be hot. Not the actual person. I talking about Tony. I love Tony the character. Yeah. I think that's Who is old in my brain? She's not a teenager. But yeah, I think that actors consent to be seen as hot when they play hot characters on shows. I think that it's respectful for us to thirst after T.T.

But you know what? You know who's right about her? Lizzo, because she is spooked. She doesn't. Apparently T.T. has commitment issues. She's not flawless as we have been kind of led to believe in her. She's so confident. She's so cool.

She is so like the experienced one. She can still be flawless in my brain though. Yes. Definitely, you know. She is flawless, certainly compared to most of the other characters in Riverdale. But when Cheryl says, do you want to go steady, T.T. is like, uh-oh, I have commitment phobia. And I break up with you. And she broke up with the vixons as well.

She broke up with it. She quits cheerleading because she's like, this is just not me. I'm losing myself. It's too preppy. Too preppy. And, um, and, um, and, um, and, um, and, then later there was a very interesting scene where Cheryl comes Cheryl and T T T T T T is like I want to start like a literary club for the black students at Riverdale to share their writing and can you help me like get funding from student council and Cheryl's like well yeah but it goes through the principal and again I just want to say Cheryl Blossom is a great actor she just is acting the fuck out of it. great she really is especially like

I wouldn't have expected and it goes to show how she feels about Tony that like when Tony asked her for this favor after she breaks up she fucking hooks her up she does she's like of course I'm gonna work my way around principal featherhead and

like figure this out and she does for her which is like very not Cheryl but it is very much Cheryl in love though and it's Cheryl in love and like remember in the first episode of this season where they, you know,

it was about the Emmett Till aftermath and the kind of direct actions that the students were organizing and all of the white characters on Riverdale were immediately allies. And I, and that could be done in a kind of lazy way where it's like, oh yeah, it's 195, but don't worry, all of our main characters are allies.

But it doesn't feel that way to me. I think because they're doing such a good job of showing how, like, ubiquitous racism was, that it doesn't just feel like, oh, it's 1955 and there is racism, but it's fine because none of the people we like are racist. It feels like a very intentional choice to be like, Cheryl as a character has thought a lot about this and is choosing to not be like her family and it is important to Cheryl. I can't believe I'm saying all this is so serious. I know that we're having like actual discussions about Riverdale right now. Like I actually believe that Cheryl as a character

to me it is reading like Cheryl as a character is making the active choice to like see the racism around her in the school in the year 195 and to choose to be an anti-racist. And I am impressed with it. And so yeah, she's like, I will help you, Tony, like I will help you even though I'm heartbroken. And then she also says, is part of the reason you broke up with me because I'm white. And T.T. is like there was a whole bunch of. of reasons and I can't sort out, I can't separate them because they're all intertwined, but she's like, but yeah, like, that is part of it. And they don't even need to do more than that. No. They just, they just said that. And Cheryl's like, you know, she just has this, like, very

understanding like, yeah, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to listen to you. In this world, it's difficult to fight you on this. Because you're right. Like, they couldn't be public. They could never, they could never share their love with anyone. For many reasons. Right. And so like that is, that's why Lizzo was right when she's like, you only date girls that there's a shelf life with. Yeah. And out. Ouch. Lizzo. But also, Lizzo, maybe there's a shelf life with me. And I think that she could think about that for a second because I am also falling in love with Lizzo. Every time, like, Lizzo showed up for her blip in the beginning of the episode. I went, Lizzo. And then Jeff was like, which one's Lizzo again? I was like, how dare you? Of all of the things. Like, you remember everything, but you forgot. Lizzo, who I'm slowly falling in love with, fine, I see how it is. Yeah, so it's really, there's like heavy, heavy growth going on amongst our little white

characters on Riverdale, at least amongst Cheryl and Archie. Cheryl was really good in this episode, too. She was really, she's just, she's a really good character, and she's a really good actor, and I just love her. And you know who I don't love in this episode? Veronica. Oh, we're going to talk about Veronica. I did want to say, though, that Cheryl and Titi did decide to meet up at the dark room at the end of the episode.

So they are going to continue dating. Don't worry. Our Choney stands out there. I'm with you in this. We love Choney so much. So don't worry. They're still dating. I think that Lizzo really got into Titi's head a little bit.

And Tony's thinking, like, you know what? What am I running from with Cheryl? And so that's why she comes back at the end and she's like, let's talk about what a future with us might look like. And it was really nice. But yes, now we can talk about Veronica. So I think that, well, Veronica's back to being Veronica. Don't worry about that.

I'm sorry. I just found her so obnoxious in this episode. And I guess we're supposed to. Yes, I think that you are. Right. Straight up, when she first meets Reggie, right? So when Reggie is like, you know, Archie introduces Reggie to everybody at school. And Veronica is just like,

I've never seen a woman so thirsty before in my life. Whoa. Veronica needs to reset her clock. Whoa, she needs to get, I don't know, she's going to clean out those cobwebs or something because she is sexually spicy right now. Yes, that's the, you know, when I was in my 20s, we called it reset in the clock. If you hadn't been laid in a while, you've got to reset the clock. And she just really seems like she is at the end of her rope.

She is losing her senses. She's not, she's sexually harassing Reggie. And I mean, we'll call it sexual. She's just flirting with red tea. She's definitely sexually harassing Clay at work. Oh my. She is his boss. She's his boss.

Leave the man alone. Because essentially Kevin shows up at the Babylonium and is like, I need a job. And she's like, okay. Like, can you pick up popcorn? And he's like, yeah, I can do that, which is great. Oh, but wait, first, before offering him the job, she says, Kevin, what are you doing here? Surely it's not to come see singing in the rain again. It's it, which, by the way, is this another sign that the Riverdale writers listen to page seven?

Oh, my God, you think so? I mean, my obsession with Gene Kelly and Singing in the Rain is really mostly articulated in our live show, which the season was probably written before anybody could have possibly seen the live show. But I have talked about him on the show over the years. And as soon as they made that very specific Gene Kelly reference, I was just like, page seven. But yeah, she does a little dig at Kevin. are you here to see Gene Kelly again or are you here for another reason? And he's like, I want to jazz. Yes. And then she asks some very pointed questions of like, I thought she was asking in a way of like, you're schup and Clay. I've got some questions for you. But it wasn't. She was like asking about like her.

She was proclaiming her intentions with Clay saying that like Clay is really cute and like I think I kind of want to ask him out on a date. Now if you recall, Kevin and Clay are in a fuckship. I don't even know if they're in a relationship yet, but they're at least in... I mean, I guess they're eating lunch every day together. In that, in 1955, I guess that means you're basically already married. Yeah, they seem to be pretty much like a full of relationship. Going strong. It's not just, you know, running through the woods anymore with Kevin.

Now, he doesn't obviously out Clay to Veronica, but then Veronica proceeds to just... This was sexual harassment from your boss. So just like trying to like touch his arm and like do all these things. I was like, what are you doing, girl? Yeah, she's coming on super strong. It's like so thirsty, so desperate. She touches his hand at one point and says, could you pick up when I'm putting down? And Clay being the ever charming, smiley man that he is, he's just like, I'm going to walk away from you.

And him and Kevin are kind of exchanging glances. And Kevin is just, you know, furious. about this. And then, yeah, I wish that. So we then see a conversation later in the episode between Kevin and Veronica in which Kevin does out Clay to her. And I kind of wish we had seen a conversation between Kevin and Clay about it. Like, what should we do?

And I think, how do we deal with this? If we had just seen Clay be like, tell her or if we had Clay tell her. Yeah. But, you know, that. And then so Kevin is just like, He doesn't like you. He doesn't like any women. And then this was the part that I found really annoying was Veronica was like, yeah, I thought so.

I was just testing my hypothesis. Which was so weird. So weird. Is she covering her ass there because she feels embarrassed or is that true? Either way, it's fucking gross. I would say that maybe that's why she was being so overt, but she was also being that overt with Reggie as well. That's the thing. Very uncomfortable because there's one thing.

Reggie in 1955 is not sex positive. He is very, very scared of sex. He's a farm boy. He's a farm boy. He's a traumatized farm boy. Yeah, he does not trust Veronica. Rightly. Yeah.

And so she's just been throwing herself and everybody, but who do you think she's going to end up with? I don't know. I mean, she says she's end game with Archie, but we don't know. I mean, yeah, I thought that they would kind of have Reggie come in and have them immediately have chemistry because they all know the history there. And so, yeah, that was an interesting.

I just don't know, I, I, I, I just don't know what they're, like, building towards with Veronica, because I, I get that she has to be the she wolf of Wall Street. But it just like, last week, I was like, what her only plotline is that she's buying the movie theater. And then this week, it's like, her only plot line is that she's like sexually harassing all the boys. Yeah. Like, so I just, I want, I actually want them to be giving her more. Like, I loved the episode where her and Betty, you know, were teaming up. to help Betty learn about sex. Yeah. Like that's what Veronica's really good at, you know? So, yeah, they must be building for some sort of big romantic payoff for Veronica. But I cannot tell what it is. In this episode, it was just like actually annoying. I was like, you need to leave Clay alone and you need to like respect that Reggie needs

some time to warm up to this town. Yeah, he like just met you. Like, you know that, I know that I think Veronica just assumes that all boys, that age are just horn dogs and are down for whatever. But again, maybe you should learn a lesson, Veronica. I know that that's not true. And speaking of horny, I mean, I love all of the ways they are trying to stifle Betty's sexuality. Man, they are trying so desperately to make her not horny that like instead, remember last time they had, she was on the Riverdale grandstand. And now she's been forced to be a part of the vixens, and she doesn't want to be there. Yes, I, and they keep

talking about it like she just used to get her energy out. They were like, maybe if she just exercises, she'll get less horny, which I love, because I think it's the opposite. Doesn't exercise and give you endorphins and make you feel hornyer? Usually, yeah, it makes you hornier, yeah. And I, I did, though, wish that they had tried this with me when I was in middle school, just so then maybe I could have, like, lost a little bit of weight, at least. you know, try to work off some of this horny because I was vibrating with horniness at this age. Was there like a multi-parent committee trying to figure out how to stop you like there is with Betty? There would have been if I was in 1955, yeah, they're definitely with the way that I just like salivated over pictures of people.

Yeah, I think that I would have, there definitely would have been a committee. There would have been a special meeting with the PTA about me. So they make Betty join the Vixens. So the Vixons lose T.T. And gain Betty just in time for the aforementioned fundraiser, fundraising party where all of the vixans have to go and kind of like be arm candy for the boys. And also all of the Vixans get assigned a boy to make cookies for and wear his jacket. And do you like special support for him? You know what really yucked me out?

The fact that Cheryl is always teamed up with her brother. I know. I know. I thought it was supposed to be like an arm gandy thing. Like you said, like I thought it was supposed to be like a, like, I'm wearing his jacket and I'm like definitely extra supporting Julian. But like you're going to do that for your brother?

But that actually is pretty consistent with Cheryl and her. Yes. It is, but still creeps me out. Even though the first season was flawless as we talk about, it was really. creepy her relationship with his name wasn't Julian what was it Jason JJ yeah her and Jason's relationship was always extremely inappropriate and so

similarly this in this season she's like well my partner is my brother and everyone else will have a boy that they're supposed to fawn over and who does Betty get but Reggie and so we get a again not horny not sexually charged because Reggie is not like that yet but a scene with between them and the library. I really thought that some 2023 Reggie was going to shine through when she was like, so essentially Betty is like, all right, I may as well tell you everything because when he

went over to stay in Archie's room, he saw across the way, he saw Betty across the way and he's like, who's that? And Archie comes over and closes the curtain. It was like, we have to have a curtain's closed in this house. And he didn't explain why. But if you remember the peep show from a couple of episodes ago. Now the curtain has to remain closed and Reggie didn't understand. So when Betty's like introducing herself to him, he essentially asks like, are you the reason why the curtain has to be closed? And she explains how she shows her under, she showed her underpants on the Riverdale grounds, grandstand that she also had a peep show with Archie through the curtains,

like through the windows of their rooms. And, Reggie was terrified. Yeah, he was really upset. Maybe we are supposed to read that as horniness because he's just a shy boy and he doesn't. Oh, you think that was shy boy horny? I think so because he's like, oh, I gotta go. You know, I think that that was maybe him being like this is, but he does, he is very judgmental. He's like, this is just like, this is a lot for me to take in.

And he, and he says like, you know, show it, show with your panties on TV and do it peep shows for your neighbor like I don't think that this is what I want basically. And so he does come off like super judgy, but he's probably hoarse. I mean, he saw her through the window and was like a hubba, hubba, you know, but I mean, he didn't say that, but that was obviously what he was feeling. So I think that there's an inner horn dog inside Reggie still. He just needs to be unleashed. Also, I don't mean to backtrack, but I forgot that I had written down this, this, this interaction from when Veronica was hitting on Reggie so hard. Because, um, Reggie introduced himself.

He's like, hey, Reggie Mantle, I just forgot, recruited the Bulldogs. And Veronica says, I suspected a tall drink of water like you were a sportsman. That's the other thing that makes me think they listened to page seven. Doesn't that sound like a jack? Sportsman. And then Cheryl says, careful, Veronica. You might get a ticket for speeding. And I was like, yeah, damn, bitch.

That's good. You might get a ticket for speeding. I missed that one line. These are the little one-liners that Cheryl brings to the show that just really keep it, keep it, make it all worthwhile. I'm sorry, I forgot. I needed to bring that up because it was so. The, there were, this episode was so well written. There were some quips in this episode that I was just like, damn.

Yeah. Yeah. But sportsmen. Sportsman. That just sounds like such a Jackie. I don't even know if you've actually said that. Oh, I say sportsman, yes. Oh, yeah.

You do say sportsman, right? It's like this sounds like such a jackieism. Like, I just think. Oh no, or am I becoming Veronica? I don't want to become Veronica. No, if you're... Help me, MJ. If you're anybody, you're Cheryl, but you're not Cheryl.

Only in the good ones. And not in any of them bad way. I'll take it. I'll take it. Oh, my God. Wow, that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me before. So that's what's going on. I'm scared that, I'm sad that Reggie is scared of sex,

but I think that he's good, I think his horniness is going to come back. I'll bet you next episode. He's going to be totally out of his shell. You know, I think he was really, you know, he is a farm boy, A, he's Asian American, B, he's, he's, you know, extremely, extremely shy and extremely. Very good at basketball. And very guarded because he has been horribly traumatized by racism. And so maybe they will continue to invest in that character development, or maybe he, he kind of got it all solved today with Archie in the locker room and he's going to come back next week and he's going to be the confident, you know, sex pursuer that he was in 2023.

But I'm confident that they will give, I hope that they will give Reggie more and that includes more sex next time. Yes. Do you think that he's going to fall in love with Veronica or do you think he's going to fall in love with Betty through the window? That's the thing. I get, I return to your question. Who is Veronica going to get? Not that anyone needs a partner, but she clearly wants them. She wants one so desperately.

So who is she? Because I was like, they sure seem to be setting up that he's going to go after Betty. But if he goes after Betty, that's going to be really hard for Archie. Because Archie, I want, I really, I'm much more of a Barci person than I am a Varchie person. Like I really want him and Betty. I just. really feel the chemistry between him and Betty. Yes.

And so I really want it to be him and Betty. And so maybe Archie, maybe Reggie will try to go after Betty and that will make Archie jealous and that will facilitate Archie and Betty. Throw them into each other's arms. Yes. And then that will drive Reggie to go into the arms of Veronica. But is that what we want? That just feels like a return to season five. I know.

But maybe it's what we always needed and we didn't even know. Maybe. Maybe they can write the wrongs of the past. as they have been doing throughout the whole season. And maybe they can... As they've been trying to do. Maybe they can make Veronica and Reggie get back together and have it be good this time instead of just kind of like...

It just seemed like before it was like, yeah, I guess we'll put these guys together. I mean, they had chemistry. Yeah, but Veronica just kind of treated him like he was her lackey all the time. Yes, that's the thing. And again, they just never invested in Reggie's character development before except to be like, he's got an abusive dad, you know. And other than that, he was just kind of like a... had, who didn't really have any opinions about anything.

Yeah, until he became like second in command to Hiram Lodge. Right, right, right. And then he became evil and that was kind of fun. But, yeah, wasn't the evil, reggie? Yeah, yeah, evil reggie. And now we have, now we have, like, traumatized reggie. So, yeah, I honestly don't know where everything's going to land. I do know that Jughead is back with Tabitha.

We didn't even talk about that whole thing. Tabitha shows up. Now, I had to pause it and say to Jeff, and I was like, are there two Tabithas? Or is this Tabitha, the guardian angel of Riverdale? And he's like, no. Remember, Glass's Tabitha is 195, Tabitha. And there is a separate Tabitha who is the guardian angel of Riverdale, because I thought. Is that true?

I trust Jeff. That they were one and the same. I trust Jeff. He's like, Glasses is 1955, Tabitha. Who has no memory, no memory of anything, just like everybody else. Right. So, you know, Tabitha comes back, because, like, I thought that, like, the tour with Emmett Till's mother was a ruse because she's working on trying, like, like, being the Guardian Angel Riverdale. That's what I thought. That's what I thought she disappeared because she was being the guardian angel Riverdale, not because she is traveling the country with Emmett Till's mother.

But you also think about this, because then I tried to push back on Jeff. I was like, are you sure about this? But then he's like, but she never even, like, mentions, or at least there's not even a nod. to the fact that like she knows Jughead and that they've been in a relationship before. He's like, I think that like they are setting this up as Tabitha as a second person. I was like, okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

I think that's right. And this Tabith though, it was was very, seemed very much like a high school or not like a guardian angel of Riverdale. Right. Extinction makes sense. It does. Well, there also is like a 10 year age gap between the two of them, isn't there? And you mean the actors?

Um, I meant like of Tabitha, 955. and Tabitha of Guardian angelness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because they were all in the post time jump. Or are they, see, that's the thing. In 1955, are they actually 16, 17, 17 years old?

Or are they actually in their late 20s, but just pretending to be high schoolers? Or just like dressed up as high schoolers? Right. Because, wait, I can't believe I don't know this. But when the whole Haley's comment, everything that sent them to 1950s, Before that, that was post-time jump. So they were all in their late 20s when that all happened. Right.

Okay. Right. Yeah. Wow. Yes, because they're not only set back to 195. They're sent back to their high school versions of themselves, not their grown version. I totally forgot that piece of it, by the way. There's a lot.

My brain can only keep so much at a time. There's a lot to keep together. And now, Tabitha definitely like Tabitha and Jughead have such chemistry together. And they immediately hit it off. And apparently Juggett was supposed to keep track of Tabith's homework while she was away. And he just like didn't do it. Which would have pissed me off, by the way. Yeah.

But Tabitha wasn't that upset about it. So Jugget essentially tells her like, I'm so sorry. I couldn't keep up with your homework. I just got this job at PEP Comics. And so she gets really interested. And then he tells her that like his mentor is Brad Rayberry. And she can't believe it because she's also a huge fan of Brad Rayberry. Yes.

And so Jughead's like, oh my God, do you want to meet him? And she's like, yeah, I definitely want to meet him. So they go over to his house, knock on the door. Nobody answers. So Jughead writes a note to leave, takes the gum out of his mouth, sticks it on the door, and puts the note on the door with the chewing gum. And of all of the things that happened in this episode, that was the one thing that I was like, what are you doing?

Putting chewing gum on the door? What are you? What is it, your cud? How dare you? I got so upset about this. No, that's why you don't mentor a teenager. They're going to put gum on your door. Gum on your door just to hold up a note.

Put it under the door. Maybe that's why Brad Rayberry doesn't make it. Oh, my God. This, okay, this genuinely got, but also, like, Jughead and Tabith are, like, hanging out in Juggett's train car. Tabitha gives them the book Darkwater Voices from Within the Vale by W.B. Du Bois. And it's like essentially there's this, which, because remember last week, we were talking about the idea that maybe it's going to be Ray Bradbury's stories that are going to end up changing and reminding everyone like with the sci-fi of like, oh, God, this is what's really happening to us. But now I'm more intrigued by this story, The Comet that specifically Tabitha wanted Jughead to read.

And part of me, I didn't have time because I watched this late last night. I was like, do I need to read this short story to see if it gives anything from, like, does it give anything away about what's going to happen? Because I wonder if that's the tale that's going to be used to try and undo this. Yeah. And I didn't know anything about this story. But so Tabitha describes this story to Jughead by Du Bois that is like about, it's like a sci-fi story about an interracial relationship. And I was like, at first I was so skeptical of the Brad Rayberry stuff and I was like, okay, this seems like really heavy handed. Like, where are they going?

And now I'm just like, it's cool as hell that they're like using all of these like 1950s short story. And before, you know, like old, old short stories and sci-fi to be like this is the, this is the narrative device that we're using to tell this season, you know? Interesting in it as well. I just did a like a quick read of the plot summary of it. That it's interesting because it is like the opposite of what should have been the outcome of what happened to Emmett Till. Or at least like when it comes to like interactions with people. Because the comment in it, Jim who is the man in it is a black man and Julia is the white woman. and Jim saves Julia and in a time period where like that, it's supposed to be, it's written in 1920.

So the black man saves the white woman. And then they are the only two people left in New York City. Everyone else is dead. After a comet strikes New York City. After a comet strikes, yes. I mean, I think that it is incredibly cool for the, because when we describe the plot of this season of Riverdale, it's so. stupid or like a comet hit Riverdale so they had all trouble back in time.

But no, and then I'm sorry. It turns out the people that the people of New York weren't all dead. They end up being found. The woman goes back to her father and her fiance and then they start talking about like questioning Jim

because they were going to lynch him after saving her. But Julia says that Jim saved her though she's unable to look at him anymore. Her father gives Jim a cash reward. Her father gives Jim a cash reward. at the very end of Black Woman parts from the group and rushes into Jim's arms after calling out his name. Whoa.

Whoa. I cannot believe. I didn't know anything about this short story. I haven't read DuVos since college. And now I'm like, I am so impressed that what I thought was a just stupid-ass Riverdale plotline is actually tied to this short story. Whoa. Dude, man, Riverdale?

What? You guys. What? You're doing really well this season. Really, really keeping it interesting. Like, and again, I think well done. They're tackling things that are, I think, tough to do well. And I, again, we're always open to hearing people who feel like they're, you know, who have, you know, thoughts different than ours.

And, and I'm just surprisingly enjoying watching them take on racism and homophobia. I really am. I did not think I wanted them to do that. I did not think that it would go well. And so far, I am pleasantly surprised by how they're making it. The tone of the show is still just like really fun, kind of dumb, sexy, dark. What all the, it's like still the same to all of our favorite feelings from the show and bringing in these like very real, you know, this very real experience of like looking at 195 from the lens of 2003.

And man, I think I might like. I think I might like it. And what ends up happening in the end is that Brad Rayberry, you know, never answered the door. So Jughead goes back to see what's going on just to like check up on him or whatever. And turns out Rayberry is not only dead, but he hung himself and left a note. But the note is so vague. I don't believe that this. No, remember the milkman showed up.

Yes. Oh. So it was set up and looked like. Yeah. So it was set up to look like a suicide Even though it wasn't The fucking Milkman at the end of the last episode Yes

Oh my God So I started this episode about being like There wasn't any horror in this But there was It's just really wow Wow I totally forgot that the milkman showed up at the end of the last episode Thank you

This is why I need you You need Jeff and I need you Yeah dude Yes we It's a triangle of me We're all symbiotic here And we just have We just got to figure

We're just trudging through are Riverdale's. Except it's not a trudge anymore. It's just like they're just such good. I used to write so many notes as I watch Riverdale and now I just like I'll write down lines like like this line that Veronica said, the only thing better than having a hunky boyfriend is having hunky friends who are boys. That is great to have hunky friends who are boys. She says, which, by the way, she says after finding out that Kevin and Claire are gay. She's like, you know what? That's fine. Nah, now you just hunky around me. I'm fine with that.

Oh, Veronica. But everybody else in this episode was good. And you know what, Veronica? She was good. We're just unhappy with her plot line. You know, it's not her fault. Yeah, we're just unhappy with her plot line. That's right. And that line alone is enough to save her in this episode. Certainly is. And thank you guys. We got to get out of here or else we're going to be. be talking for longer than the episode. Thank you so much for joining us on our like discussion today. I know. It really was a little bit of a seminar. Yeah, I'm feeling, I'm feeling it though. Oh, I do want to give a quick shout out. I want to give a quick shout

out to Cynthia, who did say who was a Hal Cooper serial killer theory. So they say, I fully believe that Hal is a serial killer again and that Alice knows. When they bring Ethel to live with him. Hal is upset. And Alice says something along the lines of, it's the least we could do, don't you think? And Alice gives Hal a look. Why would they need to do anything for Ethel of Hal didn't kill the parents? But now we know what the milkman looks like, but what if the milkman is in cahoots with other people? Yes, very much could be in cahoots with Hal. And I also want to give a shout out to Zinn, who wrote in. And also, it was

wonderful meeting you, Zin. And talking about the final musical episode, which I appreciate the fact that, like, it could be singing in the rain because we all know now that Kevin knows singing in the rain by heart. Or are they going to jump in time a little bit and do something like a Rocky Horror

Picture show? And then there's a time warp that blends the 50s with modern Riverdale or other eras. and I, like, Zinn wrote out like many other possibilities of what to do with the other songs and Rocky Horror Picture Show. I just want to say that that, oh, I hope it is. Oh, I hope it is.

Oh, it's good. It's very good. And thank you guys for writing it. And of course, you're always welcome to write in your theories to Riverdale Roundup. You can write them in to page seven podcast at gmail.com. We read all your theories, whether we bring them up or not. So just, I just want to say thank you guys so much for taking the time to send those in. and thank you for hanging out with us today.

I really appreciate it. And thank you, MJ, for being you. Thank you, Jackie, for being you and for taking notes because Lord knows I need them. I got to take the notes. I got to make sure that we have to remember these hunky boy lines. Thank you guys so much. We will be back next week. We love you.

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