Page 7 - Riverdale Roundup Ch. 126: We Really Are In It Together

Episode Date: May 27, 2023

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Hey guys, page 7 and Wizard and the Brewser are going on tour. Yes, the release that butthole cut tour. Holden, where are we going? That's right. Starting in June, we are going to Portland, Oregon, Tacoma, Washington, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, and St. Louis, Missouri. Where can we get tickets, MJ? For tickets, go to Last Podcast Network.com.

What's that one more time? That's Last Podcast Network.com. Yeah. Noice. Well, you know, we knew we were going to have some weird. Veronica stuff at some point. Not even that weird. Just kind of borough snoro.

But that is also butted up to nut with Betty's amazing plotline in this episode of Riverdale. Welcome to Riverdale Roundup. What are your first thoughts, MJ? Yeah. You know, it is such an adjustment always going from the world of streaming series where you have kind of an action-packed eight to ten episodes, adjusting back into the world of Riverdale where you got time to stretch out.

Get comfy. Oh, yeah. You do not have to have an episode full of plot. Of course, it's funny because we used to complain that Riverdale had too much plot. You know, there would be about 35 things that happened in every episode. And in this episode, we went in Strong.

There was a fantastic trailer. Yes, incredible trailer about sexy Betty. a sexy Betty episode. And they knocked that out of the park, five out of five, six out of five even. Yes. Sexy Betty part of this episode. Because, you know,

Dark Betty lives within her. And that apparently in 195 is shown by her need for sexuality. And I am here for it. As the horniest, I thought I was the horniest teenager that ever existed,

which I know that that's not true. But you know when you're not talking about it, you just assume you're the horny teenager that's ever existed if you were horny at all, and because you're so shamed by it. And I guess let's talk about Veronica first before we get into Betty, because Veronica is the Borough-Snoro timeline that we're talking about. Because also, I want to throw it out there.

Thank you to everybody. We are going to talk about some of the Riverdale theories we received in the emails this week because they are beautiful. Yeah, our entire page 7 inbox right now is like mostly Riverdale emails, which I think is fantastic. Shows where our priorities are. Yes. And where we devote most of our brain power right now, which is great. And yeah, we can talk about Veronica.

You know, I wonder, I know that Camilla Mendez and Lily Reinhardt are good friends in real life. And of course, they have their wonderful, like, TikToks that they do with Cheryl, the actress's name that I'm blanking on right now. But I sometimes wonder if Camilla Mendez is like, you know what? Lily Reinhart really hit the jackpot in terms of what they give her character because like

poor Veronica is just destined to be the she wolf of Wall Street and I know and I feel honestly I feel for the writers of Riverdale right now because this is something

that is truly out of their hands it is not their fault that Mark Consuelo is gone right and I feel like that we need Hiram that's the Veronica without her parents

her entire six seasons before this, she was always defined by her relationship with Hiram. And that was where her highest highs and her lowest lows were. And here we are in this fantastic season, fantastic cast, fantastic characters, fantastic set design, by the way. I feel like I noticed that in this episode more than ever, like The Kitchen and Betty's house. Just looks, everything about it is incredible. But then there's poor Veronica who is been abandoned by Mark Consuelo so he can go hang out with his wife, Kelly Rippa. Yep.

And here she is trying to create the tension without the parents. And so the parents are still characters in this episode. They're trying to stop her from thriving with the Babylonium theater that she just bought. And it's just like, we have literally seen this exact plot line before. But this time, we don't get the pleasure of having Hiram or Hermione Lodge there with their beauty and their evilness. And we just have Camilla Mette. who is amazing, but again, hard to create conflict between her and her parents when her parents are not there. You're just not there.

It's so weird because it's like, it's tough. You've got smithers delivering the orders from her non-existent parents. And it's like at this point, if you can't bring them back, give her new parents. That's the thing. It is true. Like the writers must be bashing their heads against the wall because it's like, because it's not their fault. It's not their fault. Like, how do we continue the entire foundation of this character that she is always foiled by Hiram?

Okay, we're going to try to have Hiram continue to foil her. But yeah, it's like over the phone. So in the first few minutes of this episode, we see that Veronica is trying to have a James Dean double feature, continuing with the James Dean theme. He's playing this, he's the cultural moment at the time. And so they're trying to play. that Cheryl's the head of the James Dean fan club and she calls themselves the Dean's Zins though I did really appreciate that. That was a great little Cheryl.

Cheryl got to be Cheryl in this episode. She just got to be like a catty bitch. Yeah, loved it. I absolutely loved that. And I also, yeah, like I love that Cheryl is the like president of the James Dean fan club, but also we know that Cheryl doesn't like boys, which just means that she just like loves James Dean on a non-sexual level, you know? which I just think is great.

I think no matter what you identify as, I think that you could see the lust that seeped out of James Dean, though, you know? Yeah, right. Or it's a cover-up, too. It could also be a cover-up for her. True. Yeah, which is, you know, unfortunate. But what a cover-up.

Yeah, yeah, I'll stare at James Dean. And so Veronica's trying to have this double feature. She gives out free passes to everybody at Riverdale High so that they will come. They're all there. They're all rowdy teenagers in 1955. They're yelling at her. They're throwing popcorn.

And then... They're throwing popcorn. Yeah, because of the over-exposed film. They can't show east of an overexposed. And so we discover after she calls all the studios to see if she can get a copy of it, she gets turned down and she realizes, again, by proxy, basically, that, oh, my parents are trying to foil me from throwing. with the Babylonium.

And it's just, it's just so tough because it's like, this doesn't feel high stakes at all. The enemies are not even present in the story. And the stakes are like, is Veronica a thriving businesswoman? Which, again,

nobody gives a shit. No. Everyone just wants her to see her be either a bitch or an ally towards Betty and, you know, do her a fuckabouts. And like, that's what we want from Veronica.

Yeah, and Kiss and Reggie. Yes, I want her to. to kiss Reggie and I want her to like help Betty, you know, thrive and her sexual deviance, you know? Yes. I want them wearing lingerie. And I want them not just to, although I will say East of Eden, I'm not seeing the movie amazing book throwing it out there.

I understand why everyone wants to see East of Eden and I get it. And that's like the hot movie in it of the time. But then like, so her parents are thwarting her from afar and she can't get the movies that she wants to show. So she gets this like B movie to play instead. And so it's called The Crawling Eye and they are, they want to make it 4D. Like so they're trying to get people into the Babylonium, right? So they make it 4D.

So she essentially pays Archie and Reggie to come in as like I creepy bosses will say costumes were amazing. Costumes were great. This whole scene was fun. I do. Yes. And it was so much fun. Yeah.

The whole B movie plot line is fun, as was the line from Dilton Doily, the fourth dimension is time. And she's just like, shut up, Dilton, Doyley. Shut up, Dilton. And she says it's going to be a 4D. That was fun. And, yeah, so this was kind of fun. And also, I feel like I'm willing or I'm able to enjoy this part more now that I realize how every single movie and text that they reference in Riverdale has this greater meaning, which we are realizing, in part,

thanks to all these list of emails we're getting telling us about the different, you know, W.E.B. DeBoie's stories that we, that were introduced last week, all the Ray Bradbury stuff. And like, I kept thinking this, for this week's episode, I saw a tweet this week about succession and the tweet was like, you can tell how much the writers of succession read, because there's just so many literary references in there. Oh, yeah. And I was like, you can tell how much the writers of Riverdale read. There are so many. Everything in Riverdale is a reference to something else,

which we've talked about before. We've always known, but it is incredibly impressive. And I do think it's cool that they're like, all right, let's do this like really weird B-movie thing. And you know it's going to somehow play into, you know,

the comics and the horror and the stuff that Jughead is doing. Yes. And so that part, that felt like it was, even though I was a little bit boros nor about this plot line. The fact that it culminates

with Veronica being like, all right, so we're going to be like a weird indie movie theater that plays... Which awesome. Yeah, that plays horror movies that like no one else wants to buy

and we're going to make it 4D by hiring Archie and Reggie to dress up as these giant eyes and then jump out at the audience while they're like during the scary parts and it's a huge success. And so I will say this part did win me over by the end. Yes, except the entire time I was like,

go kiss Reggie. Yes. I'm such a... a little horn dog that's all I care about. I'm just like, go be kissing Reggie. I want to watch you kissing Reggie. Well, also, Reggie remember, is a sad little farm boy in this universe. He's not his, like, cocky, mean self that he was before.

And so he's like this, like, sweet, timid farm boy who keeps being like, Veronica, you want to go out with me? And she just fucks with him all this episode. I know. And he's so poor. And he went out and he bought flowers. And he did that for you. I don't even know.

I don't know what. flowers are even supposed to look like if you buy someone a bouquet, but I could tell that we were supposed to think that Reggie got poor person flowers, you know? Oh, but they were still beautiful. They were beautiful, and she just does it because she's too much of a she wolf. She couldn't even give Reggie his time in this episode. And yeah, she's trying, she's like, also she's so self-centered that she's just like, okay, Archie and Reggie, you just have to do this now for every screening of this movie ever. And they're like, um, we can't. We're on a basketball team. team. We've got a lot of stuff going on. We don't work for you. Um, so bye. And that's what happened

with Veronica. It's just like, okay, you're a bad bitch, I guess, Veronica. That's fine. But like, I'm not moved by it. Well, she also, like, her parents kick her out of their home. And now she's living in the Babylonium because of all this stuff going on. And all I could think it was like, from a phone call, they just called Smithers. Can you imagine Smithers? Smithers, who is a full grown man. You're going to kick this child. This 16-year-old out of her home when her parents aren't even there. I know he's got to like, you know, abide by the orders of these just like not-the-parents. But they're not there.

Who gives a shit? Yeah, they're not there, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that in 1955, there was probably not that many, like, laws protecting children. And you probably could just kick them right out, you know? Yeah. Especially a 16-year-old. Oh. I bet you've thought about it a couple of times.

You could just kick your children out of the house, you know? Back in the good old days in 1955, you could have just left them out on the curb for at least three hours just to get a nap. Just close the door on them. They'll be fine. If they come back, that means that's strong enough. Yeah, so that's Veronica's plotline. It's fine. You know, I want to root for Veronica.

I really do. And so maybe something cool will happen now. She's living on her own. You know, we miss the parents. But also, if they're just going to further project everybody into a parentless world, that has some potential because that's also what happens to Betty at the end of this episode. Oh, my God. Betty is, yeah, that's why I wonder, are Betty and Veronica going to start living together? Yeah.

Because Betty is in some sexual heat right now because, man, that monster. of Betty's dreams of just like kissing everybody, including Veronica. And I was just like, ooh. This is what I'm talking about. Imagine being Veronica, you know, Camilla Mendez is in this show and be like, look, reading the script and be like, okay, I get to be like the Babylonian entrepreneur. And Lily Reinhardt gets to kiss everyone in the cast. Everybody, except for Dilton Doyley, which I think is so funny because of all, like,

she opens up the door. She's like, like, like, she went. She kisses Archie. She's making out with Reggie in the shower She's making out with Veronica in the locker room And this is all in her And jughead her and jughead her Real Life X!

Which I feel that way about Camilla Mendez and Reggie as well I feel bad because Veronica They're also real life X's so I do feel bad about wanting them to get together Because I'm like that sucks That really fucking sucks to have to deal with that So my love goes out to them for having to deal with that Because that ain't easy. It can't be easy.

But then Betty goes into the science room, opens up the door, sees Dilton Doylely. And I was like, is Dilton Doyley going to get kissed? I was so excited. It was just the volcano erupting instead. Just a huge ejaculation, which was great. However, they totally should have had her kiss Dilton Doily. Yes. Because that guy deserves some too.

Something. Just give him so. Although when she was making out with fangs on top of his car. Oh, yeah. Mama Mia. Yes. Good Lord. I am very here for fangs for some reason this season, like more than I have been before.

Yeah. He's hot. It's because he's a greaser. Everybody's hot. It's a, yeah. Yes. It's the greaser thing. It's definitely.

I'm so into the greaser thing. It's so like I'm ashamed of myself of how I'm into the greaser thing. Yeah. I love, oh my God. You show me someone that has a pack of cigarettes rolled up in their sleeve. Yeah. I melt. Yeah.

It's, I think it's because I watched Greece at such a young age. It really like formed some thoughts about sexuality in my mind, you know. That you wanted to have sex with 48-year-olds that were playing teenagers. Well, that really predated Riverdale by many years, MJ. Yes, I like to watch old middle-aged men pretend to be teenagers. Ooh, yeah, it gets my engines, Revin. Don't get me started. But yeah, the show starts off with a bang with this big montage of Betty just making out with everybody. And why?

It's because she has to go to therapy with Dr. Werther's who is like the lookalike of principal feather head. Yes. At Riverdale High. And it is extremely disturbing. And I was glad that they went with it because I was like, why is this teenage girl? And of course, that probably happened all the time that if a girl, a teenager had to do, was forced to do therapy because they were being pathologized that they would have to talk to like a old man about invasive questions about their thoughts and sexuality. And so she's talking to this old man and it's extremely uncomfortable. But she's just like, yeah, man, I love sex. I think about sex all the time. He says, how often do you think about sex? And she's like a normal amount. And he's like, I know. need a number. And she's like, well, Dr. Kinsley's book says teenagers think about sex every seven seconds. And he's like, that's for boys. And she's like, well, all right, then I think about it all

the time. Yeah. And it was, it was very satisfying. And then like she's talking about, you know, like he's asking her these very intimate questions and which I'm just so glad laws have changed in that like this wouldn't happen to a child and make them so unconsely. uncomfortable because like at 60, I know that like 16, you're not a child, but like, you're a child in the eyes of you talking to an old man about your sexual fantasies. I think, like, I was very uncomfortable. And I'm so glad that this plot went the way that it did. Because I was like, thank God. Like, man, Riverdale, like, knows. And thank you, Riverdale. Thank you. I felt the same way, because I was like, this is actually like this really uncomfortable. And, like,

perhaps like triggering for some people to see this old man being extremely invasive about Betty's thoughts and her sexuality. And then what they build towards is that we, we, I know I'm jumping ahead, but just so that people understand the framework here, he's the creep. And he's supposed to. He's got a copy of Lolita in his desk drawer where he keeps all the confiscated materials from the kids. and she brings it to Jughead and she's like,

tell me about this book. And he's like, Jughead's like, yeah, of course I know Lolita. And he's like, but it's kind of fucked up. It's about, humber,

Humber being attracted to a very young girl and Betty's like, how young? And Jughead's like 12. And she's like, all right. And then she basically shows. She stays up all night and reads it.

Yes. Also, yeah, I was like, what is going to happen here? Like, is this? I want to give a big shout out to whatever writer wrote the line where she's like,

Jughead tells her what Elita's about. And Betty's like, well, that's fucked up. And then Jughead's like, well, you know, it's a slippery slope if you want to condemn literature based on like the morality that it is kind of trying to highlight, you know. And so I was like, this is great because I was like, I didn't want just like a, because sometimes there will be these random threads on Twitter that it's like, Lolita's fucked up. And people are like, yeah, it's supposed to be fucked up.

It's supposed to be fucked up. That's the, that's it. That's why it was written. We don't have to cancel Lolita, you guys. Like, the whole point is that it's fucked up. Yes. And also, the second Lolita showed up, Jeff just looked at me, was like, they're not going to pretend like Lolita is sexy, right?

That's exactly the other thing. I was afraid I was afraid I would go either we have to cancel Lolita. Lolita is problematic or whatever. Or Betty's going to read Lolita and get turned on. And I was like, no, I don't want either of those things. I don't want either of those things. I don't want you. No, please.

God, no. So thank God she does stay up all night reading it, but it's not like, oh, I'm sexed up. It's her being like, oh, Dr. Worthers is a pervert. Yes. And this is what I can use to take him down. And that was very satisfying. Also, there had been a therapy session previous to this that he asks about her sexual fantasies. And then she goes into, like, extensive detail about which also, her being a biology teacher.

Uh-huh. And her, like, being with. with Archie on top of the desk in front of everyone she knows. And that I was just like, can you imagine? But at 16, telling an old man that you thought about that? Horrifying. That, I'm just like that. Oh, it makes me want to puke Zilla.

Yeah, it's tough. It was tough because the scene itself was great. The fantasy was great. it's her. Man, Lily Reinhard looked really great. God.

She was looking great. She just looks. Costume design and you're killing it. I know. She is looking, man, Betty just, like we talk, I think we've said this almost every episode.

Betty in the 1950s, like, attire is, ooh, chef's kiss. It is just, ooh, yes. And I used to,

I know that she used to wear, like modern day Betty used to wear these, like, to show she was the girl next door. And so she always wore these, like, cardigans and she wore her hair back. And the ponytail. And that always, of course, that set us up for dark, Betty to like.

Yes. And that makes complete sense. Totally. But I was always like, why is Betty so frumpy? And now I'm like, oh my God, Betty. Yeah, it's like her, just something about her look was made for the like high waisted, big, swingy 50s dress, you know? She just looks so.

The hair and everything. Good gravy. It, this is every episode. I'm just like, oh, hello. But it's kind of nice with Riverdale. I feel like my loins have like changed with the wind as time has gone on with Riverdale.

Yeah. Which is nice. I think I've had my time with every single character, like almost every single character except for Dilton Doyle that I've wanted to at some point kiss. Yeah, I think that that's true. For me, this season has been the most attracted I have been to any of the characters. Like the entire time is all happening in this season.

I don't think I used to, I used to always watch Wiverdale and want sex. And I enjoyed people here and there, mostly Skeet, to be, let's be real. Let's be real. I was mostly showing up for Skeet. Oh, our hearts. Yeah, ever since Skeet left, it's been pretty dried up around here. But now we've got like, just the perfection of Lily Reinhart

and our confusing attraction to Archie and dare I say I don't, I'm not happy about this, but sad depressed Jughead in this episode was also doing something for me. Yeah, I know. I know. Our original.

I do not want to be attracted to Cole Spouse anymore. No. I know you had your day with him and you moved past it and now we're back. We're back, man. We're back. We're back and it's hard on our hearts and our lawyer. just like it's difficult for Betty

to have to go through all this because while all of these therapy sessions like everything is happening it is very obvious that Alice, her mother, is talking to Dr. Worthers about everything that they are discussing so even when she says like

yeah I guess like I want to get married and have a family but like I also want to make an impact on the world and so she comes home and Alice is like throwing wedding magazines in front of her face so that she could talk about, like, dream about her wedding. And Betty's like, Mom, I'm not even dating anyone.

She's like, but it's not too early to start dreaming. And then she tells Dr. Wothers that she writes everything down in her diary. So she goes home, oh, my God, have you ever? My mom read my diary once. Really? Yes. And I'll never forget. This is like, this is something I've brought back up to her.

And she's like, I'm really sorry I did that, too. And I'm like, thank you for apologizing because she told me. at the time, never write down anything that you don't want anyone else to ever read. And I was like, and I was like, you told me that. She's like, I never said that. I was like, it's burned into my brain. I was like, you definitely did this to me. And so she is now apologized, which I appreciate.

Wow, that's tough. But this was a triggering scene for me, which comes downstairs and the reverence downstairs after Alice read all of her diaries. Yeah. I'll, yeah, that scene, I'm sorry, I spent this entire scene being like, but Presbyterians don't have confession and they don't have priests. And then I was like, am I wrong? I was like, surely someone in the room was like, that's Catholics. Catholics do confession. Protestants don't do confession, but that's, we can table that. I just really was having a really hard time with that.

but I digress. So Alice finds all the sexy diaries and then brings a priest and asks Betty to come confess her sins to the priest. It is really upsetting. I mean, and I will say this, another Riverdale greatest hits in this episode, Bad, Bad, Bad Mommy Alice Cooper. We love to see her back. Ooh, love her back.

Alice is so good at being evil. although I'm just waiting and I'm like, I just want her to come home and she's dressed like a vixen. I just want her to come home and all of a sudden she's a greaser and she's just like, you know what? I'm leaving your father. And then she just comes out in like the serpent jacket and I just melt into the floor. That would be sexy because I do think that the 50s housewife look is also very much working for Alice Cooper in a sexy way. Yes. But we would love to see.

I mean, we're seeing those glimpses of dark Betty and sexy Betty and I would love to see dark Alice come back. because we know that she's got the darkness too. Oh, yeah, she's always, she's in and out of cults, willy-nilly. And she's, she's living with a confirmed serial killer. Yes. And yeah, so Hal also comes back in this episode in a big way. Bad Daddy, too. He's, I mean, they're coming in strong.

Because essentially what ends up happening is that Betty, because she read her diaries, she breaks into Dr. Werther's office and because she wants to find the little notebook that he's always writing down because he was writing down all of her sexual. fantasies. He was writing down all this, you know. I know it is not creepy when you were talking to it like a psychologist about said things, but when you're being like, when you're kind of under duress and you're a minor and you're talking to someone that you don't want to, it does feel like a huge violation of privacy and trust for this creepy old man to be writing down all of your fantasies. So she goes to find the book, but that's where she finds Lolita. And the next day, she

tells Dr. Worther's like, I'm not going to my, my appointment today. I, like, which go for her, because you know Alice is going to get all pissed off about it. And she's like, he was hoping to better understand her by reading the book since Lolita is a sex crazed woman. So he thought that she would, like, he referred to Lolita as a sex crazed woman. Yeah. And Betty was like, no, she's not. She's a girl. She's 12 years old.

Being groomed by a predator. Being groomed by a predator. And like very similar to what is happening inside of this room right now. Betty has this like, I clapped. I was just like, yes, Betty. Because she like not only like dresses down Dr. Werther's about the book Lolita, but also just like refuses to let him manipulate her anymore in these in these sessions. and like, I don't know, I feel like she would probably still, like, let's say, real 195.

I feel like she would still be forced to do it, whether she wanted to do or not. But I just, Jeff and I just keep saying, when is she getting sent to the Sisters of Quiet Mercy? Yeah. But here's the thing. What if she gets sent to the Sisters of Quiet Mercy? This is Jeff's theory. She teams up with Ethel and they start trying to solve the murder of her parents. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what are we built? Right. So the Betty plot line basically culminates in this confrontation at first between her and Alice, where, you know, Alice is saying like, you know, no matter what I do, you're just so bad. And then Hal appears out of nowhere. And he's like, your mother sacrifices and sacrifices for you. And you are so ungrateful. And so what is that about? I mean, obviously all mothers. the whole narrative about mothers is sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice. But also I'm like, what in particular is Hal, Hal must be referencing. Like, what has Alice sacrificed? The fact that she knows that Hal's a serial killer and she's staying with him so that,

you know, Betty can have both for parents. Like there must be something to that, him being like, she sacrificed the sacrifice. You don't know how much she has sacrificed. And then Alice basically goes, all right, you don't appreciate me. and all I've sacrificed for you, that I'm done. I'm done being your parent. You don't have a mom anymore and you can make your own breakfast. And she just walks out of the impeccably designed 1950s kitchen. Oh, it's beautiful in there. Oh, my God. They did such a great job inside of the Cooper household. But honestly, this begs the question that also Christine had written in about,

and I just want to say, thank you so much, Christine. Where's Polly? We want to talk about sacrifice. where's Polly? And it's not that Polly doesn't exist because Christine brought up, which thank you so much, she's so right, that when Ethel moves into the Cooper house, Betty tells her that she can stay

in her sister Polly's room. So in this world, Polly still exists. So if we're talking sacrifice, is Polly also at the Sisters of Quiet, mercy? Is Betty going to be set there and are all three of them going to work on the crime together?

Or is Polly already dead? Or is Polly already dead? Did Hal kill her? You'd think that would be mentioned, like, that at some point, Betty would be like my dead sister. So maybe, but yeah, where is she? She exists, but yet she's not there. Yes. And with no other mention of her.

Yes. Yeah, that's so something, obviously now Alice is, I mean, Betty is basically, you know, is an orphan in a way. And we know Riverdale loves orphans. And so what is, yeah, she's going to, I don't know if she's going to get kicked out of the house, but she's basically parentless. and it makes total sense that that will launch her into the arms of the other troubled teens out there. Maybe Veronica, maybe Ethel. Yes. And I mean, I'm excited to watch it.

And I don't know what's going to happen because, like, she must end up moving out of the house. I think she's going to end up moving in with Veronica or they're going to have some sort of like cohabitation situation. Maybe in the Babylonium, I don't know. But there's so much about her window with Archie. Like even in the beginning of this. episode he's like when Dr. Rathers is like what how often do you think about sex like it's like literally it cuts to her in her room looking out her window and seeing into Archie's window so it's like every time

she's in her room she thinks about sex because every time she looks out the window and sees Archie she thinks about sex so yeah so definitely they're laying the groundwork for something going on with Hal yes like no way they brought back that actor without having some really fucked up thing that they're laying in wait to spring on us about him. So, and again, I do think something about him being like, your mother has sacrificed so much, something like that is going to come back. And they're setting up something for, for Betty to be on her own. Yes.

Now, I do want to give a shout out to Max. Max, who wrote in that, and there's something to this. There's something here. Max, thank you so much. Max says, Season 7 of Riverdale is the perfect grounded swan song of a show that has been nothing but bat shit.

George Lucas said of Star Wars, it's like poetry. They rhyme. And that is exactly what is happening in the season. If you look at the characters that have returned from previous seasons, Hal Cooper, Principal Featherhead, Evelyn Ever Never,

the vast majority have been villains in their times. And I think the crux of this season could be a test of pure moral goodness, most explicitly in Archie's plotline. But this also applies to the other plot lines. Our blessed guardian angel Tabitha Tate is orchestrating this season, making the cast face bigotry, hatred, sexual repression, and stand up because it's the right thing to do, bending towards justice, if you will. I really hope some of this is relevant to the plot as a whole. Either way, I'm so pleased with the season, and I'm so pleased that you wrote in Max.

That is there, you're right, there's something in that. Yeah. There's something there with that. Totally. Yeah. Right. Because everyone is basically being pushed in this season to kind of choose which side they're on, right? Like are they going to be anti-racist, anti-homophobic, you know, or are they going to be the Hal Cooper's and the Alice Coopers and the Evelyn Egrenever's, Evernevers, whatever the fuck her name is. Can't believe she's back. I can't believe she was 28, the whole time. I know. I'm so upset about that. And is she still? In fact, that's actually one of the questions I was going to read this theory from

Caitlin, but part of Caitlin also just rant in this email, which is great. Are they all 25 to 37 year olds trapped in teenage bodies? Right. Or have they all been reset to their teenage selves? Yeah. Both scenarios make me a bit uneasy, but the idea that they are mid-20-somethings is arguably much worse. Most of the characters are only hooking up with other pre-commit characters, so I

I suppose that's okay. Yeah. But does that mean Kevin, a 20-something, is dating clay, an actual high school student, is jugged in the same situation with high school Tabitha? Or is this the real guardian angel, Tabitha? I had not thought of that. Because it was last week, it wasn't until last week that we realized, or at least I realized that it really sank in for me.

Oh, yeah. When before this time travel happened, it was post-time jump. So they were all like 27 or 26 or whatever. Right. And then when they were sent back, which I know we landed on that stunning realization last week, but I had not thought that are they all 26? Are their bodies 26? Or are their bodies now suddenly 18, but their souls are 26? And if Kevin is Shdupin an 18 year old.

But to be fair, Clay, I don't care of that guy's in high school. It's a real never-been-kiss situation. that man is clearly very old, even if he is in high school. So I'm not worried about it. He's so clearly old. Yes. He's not a teenager. It's fine.

But that is a fantastic question. Yes. Now, this is also a part of Caitlin's email. And this is separate. So go with me on this. This is about Jughead and Tabitha. All right? Use your head in the game.

My head is in the game. I'm also just Googling how old the actor clay. I spend the half of Riverdale Roundup recording, Googling how old everybody is. Oh, yeah, just to making sure. I mean, if we're thirsting, we got to make sure that we're thirsting after the proper people.

Yes, but, okay, my head is in the game. I realize that perhaps the Jughead Tabitha, Titanic watching scene did maybe mean something. Remember when they watched Titanic together? Last season? Last season. It was at the end of last season. Yes.

Tabitha mentions that Jack died so Rose could live. Is it possible that Tabitha did this exact thing to save Jughead? In season 7, episode 1, when Jughead still has his memories, the Guardian Angel Tabitha returns. She says that she gave her remaining life force to send them all back to 1955. She specifically says life force. Does this mean that Tabitha is for real dead? Maybe she gave herself to save them just like Jack did for Rose? a big maybe. And to be honest, I find the idea that they watch Titanic for no reason at all a much funnier plot point. Thank you so much, Caitlin. I appreciate you. I love these emails. I love this. They're so funny. Oh, my God, this is so funny. Because it is hilarious if they just watched Titanic for no reason. It had no significance and it will never come back. And it is equally satisfying if they watched it to be like, actually, it's because Tabith is going to be like Jack

from Titanic. You're just like, what? Yeah. Especially in a season where they're doing all this cool shit with like Ray Bradbury and W.B. Du Bois and also like, what if it was also a Titanic reference? Like, all the possibilities here are good. That is so, so funny. I love this theory. And you know, I absolutely love it.

Speaking of Brad Rayberry, now throughout this entire episode, which we didn't even get to, So through this episode, Jughead has been in mourning. He has been sitting at Pops because remember, Brad Rayberry died last episode. He quote unquote killed himself and left a note. Right. Now, so Jughead just spend the entire time just sitting at Pops, reading Brad Rayberry's books again, and just sitting there and pouting. Yes.

And Pops just keeps bringing a milkie. milkshakes and I'm just like his poor belly. Like all I can think about was his belly. But in the end of the episode, Sheriff Keller shows up and is just like, yeah, you know, that Rayberry suicide case. Yeah, we're working on it. And Jughead, we need your help.

Yeah, that was the cliffhanger that they ended on, which I didn't find particularly satisfying. But also, what investigation of a suicide? And feel like at this point, if you already said it's a suicide investigation, what are we investigating? Well, he did it. They must. I mean, that, that must. I mean, he didn't do it.

I guess that's, I guess that's meant to, because I was just like, that's, that didn't really feel like, usually Riverdale ends with a big, like, do, do. And you're like, whoa. And that didn't like feel that exciting. But I guess maybe that's meant to give us the realization that I had last week at the end of Riverdale Roundup when I was like, had completely forgotten that. Brad Rayberry had been killed by the milk ban. And so maybe that's meant to just be like, oh, maybe it wasn't a suicide after all. Which obviously it wasn't. Right.

But was there more to the story? Now, Chels wrote in and asked, now, I'm going to read all of this email because I appreciate the time that went into it, Chels. And I want you to know that because I want everyone to hear what you've got to say, because you've delved in deep to the Brad Rayberry plot line, and I appreciate you. All right? Okay.

After the most recent episode of Riverdale dropped, and we find out that Brad Rayberry allegedly hanged himself, I wanted to try and see what 2023 universe Riverdale plots he could be connected to. As you've mentioned on the show and other listeners have mentioned, the milkman is probably a front for some kind of killer. While I do believe there's a connection to Hal Cooper somewhere in there, something I almost forgot about is the evil. man trifecta of Dr. Werther's, Principal Featherhead, and Mayor Clifford Blossom,

who's also still the secret cousin, not cousin of Hal Cooper? In tales of a jugular vein, Jugged's comic stories are punctuated by scenes of a darkly lit dinner meeting between Principal Featherhead, Dr. Worthers, and Clifford Blossom. This is where we find out that they not only were planning to crack down on comics, but that Dr. Worthers wants to do it as a distraction. from the murder of Ethel's parents. It's my theory. He somehow organized the Mug's murders

because in one of these scenes, he distracts the conversation around Sheriff Keller looking for the so-called milkman and the murder weapon by saying, the real murder weapon is these comic books. Now, why would he be so vehement about blaming comic books to the point where he doesn't think

the murder should be investigated unless he has something to gain. This would also explain why he would see Brad Rayberry as such a threat because Brad's encouraging Jughead to keep writing comics. Now, since Brad Rayberry has apparently bonded so much with Jughead, do we think that the note he left is a secret code for Jughead and Tabitha to crack? Or just something the Milkman did? Also, I'm 90% sure that the Rayberry apartment is the same one that Jughead and Tabitha moved into

post time jump. So do we think they're going to have their memories jogged by being in the same place as when they were together? Whoa. This is, Chels, thank you. And also, P.S., I hope the writers only brought in Julian for the season because they didn't want to make Jason a badman because, oh, mama, do I hate Julian so much? Also, the actor was born in 1998, which makes me feel very old. Yeah, that's too young. By the way, Clay is 31. So he's one of the oldest people. Oh, wow. Yeah, no, I mean... So that's fine. He can... Looks great. He doesn't look 31, but wow, yeah. Yeah. He can strip Kevin all he wants.

Yeah, that's fine. But what do you think about what Chels had to say? Yeah, that's fascinating. Because, I mean, if it is the same apartment and that... But okay, but isn't Tabitha, who... 1955 Jughead is with now, Tabitha, who went on the tour with Emmett Till's mother, Isn't that Tabitha not the Tabitha that season six Jughead was with in that apartment? Because that Tabitha is the Guardian Angel of Riverdale? Yes, that Tabitha.

Guardian Angel River Tabitha had the apartment with that. Right. So if Jughead is... With him. Jughead is now going to try to solve this mystery with other Tabitha, who no one knows what the fuck that is or what kind of memories she has. Or Guardian Angel Tabith is going to come back. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. Could, yeah. And then there'll be two tabiths. Abathos. Yeah. I mean, right. So that's a good question. And in terms of the the evil man trifecta, I think that's a very good point. Obviously, we are being set up to, and this episode set us up to believe that Dr. Weatherby is at least, or. Dr. Worther's. Thank you. And Principal Featherhead. It's okay. It's a lot. There was somebody named Weatherby at some point. Or Featherby. Weatherby. Okay. Thank you. But we're obviously.

meant to believe that he's, you know, a gross pervert. Um, and, you know, a prude. He's censoring Jughead, all of this stuff. But if, if he is connected to the milkman, of course, that would make sense because he obviously is like really upset about it and feels like he has something to hide. My question is, if those three men are kind of like evil behind the scenes men and it's one of them, maybe Clifford Blossom, maybe, um, Dr. Werther's that is perhaps, connected to the darkness, where does Hal Cooper fit in? That's my question, right? I mean, he's got to have something to do with something. And that's why I wonder if it has something to do with Polly, like something on that end of things, that he's doing something

completely separate from everybody. I like never before in Riverdale have been so eager to find out what, like how it's all going to come together. Like, I truly feel like I'm in the middle of a Sherlock Holmes book where I just want to skip to the end. I'm be like, I just want to know. Like, I just... They're doing a great job. They really are. That's the thing.

So that's why, like, you have the Veronica storyline padding in this one, right? Because, again, there's so many episodes of Riverdale. But so they have to draw out, you know, the detective side of the show for so long. The Veronica plotline seems to have nothing to do with any of the other stuff. The murders or the comic books, the nothing. It's just its own little thing, right? Yes.

It's its own separate thing. Her own sheet. Wolf of Wall Street, Howlin by herself, like she always is. Where are her parents? Oh, oh, no, my business, should I turn it into a casino? I hope she turns it into a casino. Oh, what's going to be? I mean, I'm surprised she's technically not doing anything illegal right now, so I don't even know it's like, is this Veronica? But yeah, we've got that, but then we do, every episode is, like, it is an adjustment to get used to the pacing where, we don't get a lot of, like, it's not, there's not as much happening right now as I feel

like I maybe expect, but I love all of these listener emails because they make me put to, like, realize that building blocks are being built. And like, we are building towards something. And the more I think about it and the more we get these, these theories from listeners, like, the more I actually think it's really exciting and I think that they are doing a really good job. They're doing a very good job. I also want to shout out Elizabeth, who edited this episode of Riverdale, who also wrote in. And I just want to say, you did an amazing job on this episode.

They explained to me a little bit about how, like, the actual editing of Riverdale goes down and that they, like, they do like every other episode, every third episode that they do because sometimes they shoot them out of order, which also, I didn't even realize that sometimes they shoot them out of order. And that's got to be so difficult for your editing. processes. So also, congratulations, Elizabeth. My God. Also, how weird would that be for the actors, too? What a roller coaster. Especially in 1955 where they're just going, like, it's like already, you know, all over the place. Each actor must have like their own murder board in their trailer to be like, all right, I used to be 27. Now I'm 18, you know, like to keep it all in their I mean, without our, without Jeff, you know, the Riverdale historian that we have on board here, I don't know how we would remember.

I, yeah, I know. The Jeff and the listeners really keep us accountable. Yes, so thank you guys. And thank you. You can send in your own Riverdale Roundup theories to page seven podcast at gmail.com. You can also just send, which I do also read and appreciate people to just send like, just rants. just because you have literally no one else to talk to about Riverdale. I accept it.

I can handle. You can put it on me. Please feel free to rant to us at any time. Page 7 Podcasts at gmail.com because I read it and I go, oh, yeah. Oh, I know it. And I say that aloud and then I move on and I appreciate you. Yes, we will read it. And if you are a person who works on Riverdale, we would love to hear from you.

Please. Because we have now confirmed that our. universe and the Riverdale Creators universes have interacted. And it is very meaningful after all these years that we have spent together, you know, to really know that we really are in it together. Yes, we are. And like, and just honestly, like, thank you, Elizabeth for explaining, like, the editing process. Because that's got to, like, I didn't realize, I didn't even know how difficult your job was.

And you know what? You're killing it. Killing it. I don't know how you guys keep it all together. And it's very impressive. Yeah. I know. And there is nothing but more exciting shit to come. I mean, the Betty's sex part of this episode was an absolute home run. And, you know, I don't really care what happens with Veronica next. But everything else, I can't fucking wait. I cannot wait to figure out what little, you know, I used to be so mad. I was like, they're dropping all these threads and they're not going to pick up the threads. But I got faith now. They're dropping threads and they're going to, they're picking them up. Well, because this is it. to drag us through some really scary shit with those threads.

And they're going to, I know they're going to nail the dismount. I believe in them. I believe. I believe. We're getting the season that we never thought that we were going to have. We have to believe. I'm pulling a Ted Lassow over here. Come on, guys.

This is going to stick the landing. I can feel it. Thank you guys so much for joining us on this week's episode of, oh, wait, no, one more. I'm sorry, one more Riverdale Roundup theory. Please. One more theory. This is from Cassidy. Okay.

I wanted to share this crazy theory. I just appreciate the depths that you went, Cassidy. I wanted to share this crazy theory of mine about the milkman from the season of Riverdale. The actor who plays him is Maddie Finocchio, who has also appeared in the chilling adventures of Sabrina. His character in the Sabrina show is an evil ice cream man who is supposed to have his soul dragged to hell, but he has made a deal with the devil to exchange the souls of children that he kidnaps and kills for extension on his life and to get to keep his own soul. I remember this plotline.

I can't believe I could. I mean, I didn't remember it until Cassidy brought it up. And I was just like, oh, crap, I forgot about that. And I didn't realize it was also the same person. We've already established there as some sort of crossover between the two worlds based on last season, Riverdale. So what if he's playing the same character in Riverdale right now and he's killing people to offer their souls?

My theory falls apart a bit when you look on IMDB and see that this actor also played the quiz show host from the Riverdale season four episode when Betty was accused of cheating at the quiz bowl and lost her Yale scholarship. You were right. But I think no, I think that you're on something with the ice cream man thing, Cassidy. I also, I think that it's got to be. I love that Riverdale is just like, yeah, bring that guy back. Whatever. He was the quiz show guy. It's fine. Like, bring him back. He's good. He's good. He's in the world. He's in the world. Less paperwork. Totally. I think that's great. Honestly, more shows should do that. Be like, you were a little part that probably people won't remember. We will absolutely.

bring you back in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that makes total sense. And also, what a deep cut to be like, to understand where this is going, you need to watch a different show on the CW. You know? Yes. That's the real shit, you know. Wow. Yes. And thank you so much, Cassidy, because that of like, blew my mind because I completely forgot about the ice cream man. Wow. The whole thing in Sabrina. And, you know, ice cream is made of milk. And that is, you know, the stomach killer for us. over the age of 30, yes. So maybe if you can't kill him with knives, he'll kill him with dairy.

I'm scared of it. Get out the pepto, y'all. I think that's just a brousky thing. Maybe it's because you guys used to drink so much milk in high school. Yeah, we love milk. Can't love milk anymore. Now it's oat milk. Now I'm an oat milk girl.

Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, that's growth. Yeah, thank you. I thought you were about to say, that's gross. I was like, wow. No, oat milk is good. I like a lot. Milk.

Milk all the nuts, milk all the oats, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. Uh-oh. Well, that's what Betty wants to do. That's for damn sure. Thank you guys so much for joining us on Riverdale Roundup. And thank you again for your theories. I just, I was bold over this week with your amazing theories that I had to read them because

I think that all of them could be pertinent to this season, Riverdale. And thank you so incredibly much. And thank you, MJ, for watching another episode of Riverdale with. me and coming on here today to talk about it. Thank you, Jackie. It's always a pleasure. I hope you guys have a great week and we will be back next week and I'm ready for the horn. Bring in the horn and I'm not talking. That's what I talk about. That's what you're talking about. Jackie's talking about the other kind of horn. Different kind of horns. Love you guys.

We'll see you next week. Bye. This show is made possible by listeners like you. our ad sponsors. You can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.