Page 7 - Riverdale Roundup Ch. 127: Did Ya Know He Was A COMMIE?

Episode Date: June 3, 2023

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Hey guys, page 7 and Wizard and the Brewser are going on tour. Yes, the release that Butthole Cut Tour, Holden, where are we going? That's right, starting in June. We are going to Portland, Oregon, Tacoma, Washington, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, and St. Louis, Missouri. Where can we get tickets, MJ? For tickets, go to Lastpodcastnetwork.com. What's that one more time? That's Lastpodcastnetwork.com.

Yeah. Noice. Man, sometimes, you know, the only... thing I miss about old Riverdale, and yes, I'm talking about seasons one through six, is the fact that it's just so bad shit that you have to talk about it for an hour and even to just figure out what happened in the episode. And now these episodes are just so good that I just find myself. Usually I take notes. I write down lines that people say, I'm not even doing it. I'm just watching the show. And then afterwards, it was like, oh, no, I didn't take any notes. That was literally my experience this morning. I brought over my little computer. I was going to take notes. And then I just became, you know, absolutely enraptured with the themes of this show.

Can you imagine if you had traveled back in time and told us when we started talking about Riverdale so obsessively with Marcus on the show that we had to add a new show called Riverdale Roundup because it was so sexy and murdery and high schooly and cheerleadery. choreographed dancing, if you had been like, in seven years, you will be discussing Native son and like interracial marriage in the 1950s in the United States. I would not believe you. And yet here we are. We are once again, we're going to try to not keep it like a college class here today. But I think we do have to start this show by saying this is a Riverdale episode that once again takes on the issue of racism in America in 195. Yes, we're aware that we are two white people having this discussion. Yes. Yes. The big caveat here is that we are two whiteys. And please, as always, you know, email us with your

knowledge, your pushback, your own perspective. If you are listening to this, listening to us talk about this particular episode and the various ways that it confronts racism in the 1950s. And if you want to add more to this conversation, we would very much welcome that because we are two people who talk about hot sexy goss and we are white and we are here to talk about the black literary society that Tony started at Riverdale High in 1955. And the themes of interracial marriage and also communist accusations hurled at Brad Rayberry in this episode. There is a lot going on in this episode. And actually, before we even jump into a lot that's going on with the, like, discussing racism in 1955, I also would be remiss if I did not bring up from last week's episode when we were talking about Betty, talking, like being forced to talk to an old creepy dude. Yes. Without her consent to have to talk about these very explicit things. And we were like, oh, I'm so happy this doesn't happen anymore.

guess what? It does still happen. And guess where? The LDS church. I was not expecting it all to come back to Mormons again, but doesn't it always come back to Mormons? Always comes back to Mormons, dude. It always comes back to Mormons. And I just want to shout out both Shana and Caro for writing in about this.

And also, again, for writing. And I just want to say explicitly thank you to both of you, because you wrote in in a way that it wasn't like, MJ and Jackie, you guys are so fucking dumb. How dare you say this doesn't happen anymore? No, you just explained to us that like from the age 12 and plus, like Caro said, in order to go to the Mormon temple, you're highly socially pressured to go. You have to undergo a one-on-one purity interview with your church leader. And this is what Shana referred to as the bishop's interview.

And the members are supposed to sit down with a bishop. a position that can only be held by a man for a one-on-one with no parents and answer questions about their adherence to the law of chastity among other church laws. I just wanted to say that I'm sorry to anyone that is being forced to go through something like this, especially at the age of 12, I imagine it's very difficult to have any agency, especially when it comes to the religion that you might be being forced to abide by. And that's horrific. It's, I was so pleased to get these emails because, again, it was a perspective that I had no idea about, totally flew over my radar.

Does radar go over? Yeah. Yeah. Wherever. My radar missed it. And it was one of those times when listener mail is so great to be like, this is my experience. Because my experience watching this episode with Betty where she's being forced to talk to this old man about her most private sexual thoughts. is, you know, I just spent several years in training as a mental health counselor, and I was just thinking, like, thank God there are so many, like, legal and ethical safeguards in place now to, like, you know, protect kids from being put in a position like that. And that's not to say that abusive dynamics like that don't continue to happen, you know, despite those safeguards. But just- Oh, yeah, because confession still exists, but at least, like, you're not, like, forced in the room.

Totally. And, and, and, and. certainly if you're talking about anything with public school, public money. Although sometimes you are. I take that back. Right. But, you know, if you're talking about public school, if you're talking about therapy, there's just so many, again, explicit expectations about ethics and also just like liability. You should just not be an old man talking to a teenage girl alone in a room like in most situations. Like, yeah, you know. Especially like would Shana continues on to say every position in the LDS church structure is volunteer, and there are zero requirements to hold a position of power, like bishop, other than adherence to church guidelines and standards of living. No degree, no training. Male members of the church will even rotate through every few years. So it's like there's no protections in place for potentially abusive people. There's nobody else in the room to make sure that no abuse happens in the room. There's no expectation of privacy that, you know, if you're a school counselor, for example, like,

children don't have the same right to privacy that adults have, which is like one of the kind of like murky ethical things where it's like if a child tells you something and the parent asks about that thing, your kind of ethical obligation is to not tell the parent, but also like legal. But anyway, all of this is to say that like there is a reason why like the last 50, 60 years some safeguards to protect kids have been built up and to hear that those are just not there at all in this particular situation with the Mormon bishop stuff. And yeah, not to mention, obviously this happens in other faiths as well in terms of having an all-powerful person who kids would be afraid to question and afraid to confront and having that happen. But yeah, this was this was so fascinating to hear about. And again, I think because the whole kind of point. of this season of Riverdale is to be like, wow, 195, pretty different than now, huh? But also, meaningfully,

to be like, and in some ways not that different. And I feel like that's actually another thing that I appreciate about this episode of Riverdale. They're not doing the thing where they're like, racism. That was a 1955 thing. Like, I feel like they're really doing a very good job of being like, this is what racism looked like in 1955.

And can't we understand it in a in a more real, more immediate way by looking at it through these characters who we know from the present day. And I feel like it's not like an, it's not absolving the present day from these issues that it's highlighting from the past.

And I feel like that's very special about this season. It's not like homophobia, a thing of the past, racism, a thing of the past, you know, abusive, abusive adults to kids, a thing of the past. It's just like. They're just showing what it looked like in 19505. Totally, totally. And how sad of how much has not.

Yes, totally. And yes, and that brings us to this episode, the big themes of which were like boys who like cars and like black literary genius and black only spaces. And like it was just like so heavy and so dumb at the same time. Yes. And if I could take a shot for how many times I said kiss, kiss, kiss every time Archie and Reggie's face got close to each other as they talked about cars. I was just, Like, come on. Come on, come on just once. Come on, just get in the back of that car. Come on, just once for me. I know. Come on, kids.

Well, did you see yesterday somebody sent me gay Riverdale memes from the original comics, from the original Archie comics? And there's like a whole, I'm going to repost more today because they sent me a bunch. And they're so good. But it's this whole thing where you can just get panels from old Archie comics that look extremely, extremely gay. And a lot of them are between Archie and Reggie. So.

it's not we're not coming out of nowhere with this idea that they should kiss. It's obviously been part of the subtext for the entirety of the existence of the Archie comics in the Riverdale universe. Certainly has because well Archie finally got his grades up and so he got his car back. And that was a big to do because he's got a car now. He's got his old jalopy and Reggie wants to drive the car too because Reggie also really loves cars as much as he like to. to kiss Archie. And so at first it's like in my brain this bonding thing where they're like, oh, we're two boys who love cars, yay, and they pull up to school while Betty and Veronica are discussing

who would you choose between Paul Newman and Marlon Brando and God bless Betty, who does a little fuck-marry kill situation where she's like, I would marry Paul Newman, but if it was just for one night, I would choose Marlon Brando was such I love.

of horny Betty. Love it. Horny Betty is, she's vibrating. Every time she looks at a boy, you can tell to it, she's just like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Yes, she is so horny, and Lily Reinhardt is really bringing it as always. And so they look over, as they're looking at these two pictures of Marlon Brando and Paul Newman, they look over at Archie and Reggie

and Veronica says, well, what do you say we go snag our own Marlon Brando and Paul Newman of Riverdale High, which in that case, is Paul Newman Archie and Reggie is Marlon Brando.

Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, that's fine. Except the thing is, I would allow it if this, we were talking old Reggie, but this like farm boy Reggie, I don't know if he's much of a Marlon Brando, just saying. Yeah, not yet. He's been such a timid baby

the whole time. He and Veronica haven't even resolved the fact that she stood him up last week or two weeks ago, whatever that was. Except that's what, basically, as they pull up in the car, the girls are like, ooh, sexy boys, sexy car. And then Veronica goes up to Reggie, and she's like, I'm sorry I stood you up. And he's like, hey, I'm not afraid of the chase, but some people don't want to be caught.

Do you? I thought that was a little, that was a kind of a smooth line. I was in it for that. And then infuriatingly, the most Veronica response ever is just like, you'll have to find out. And it's like, Reggie, run. Yes. I'm sorry, but she's a walking red flag. Yes, she's the she wolf of Wall Street.

You've got to be scared. She will never give herself to you, Reggie. She only cares about herself. She only cares about herself. Because just as easily that I'm like, oh, she's going to go with Reggie, I could see her just going back to Archie because they're endgame. And I'll never forget that they're end game, MJ. And we haven't gotten any real.

I mean, they have hinted that Veronica likes Archie. And that we got a little bit of that during the episode where she was like, okay, Betty, I'll help you get Archie. but since then we've gotten a little hint that Veronica likes him, but we haven't gotten anything from Archie to Veronica. We have not gotten any mutual explicit acknowledgement of any attraction between that. No. And so I was curious, is there going to be, is Varchi coming back, or is it going to be veggie, straight to Vegee?

I think we're going to get, I think we're going to have a dappling of veggie before we get back to Varchie. Oh, but see, I know they're endgame. I know their end game. I don't want a varchie. I want a barci. I know. I'm pro barci as well. I'm down with a veggie.

Yeah, I get it's like, I'm down with a veggie. I don't even care about veggie. All I care about is barci. Yeah, man. And choney. And choney. I mean, as long as Choney are together, I'm sated. I'm fine.

I can handle anything. Although they're having a rough time too, because while the girls are going over to the boys and being like, let's let's go on dates. And the boys are like, Tony is over here. You know, Tony has really, Tony has started her Black Literary Society. And we are seeing the meetings.

And we are seeing another side to Clay, which I appreciate because before I was like, okay, Clay is a bit of a one-dimensional character here. He's just like the handsome, slightly magical black gay boy who exists only to be Kevin's boyfriend and like Veronica's like sexual harassment object. Yes. And so I was like, I want a little bit more out of Clay. And so this episode, they gave him another character trait, which is obnoxious guy in the literary group who talks too much. Yes.

Which I actually was, I was like happy about that, though, because I was like, make him a real person. So it's like, here he is this guy who's like brought all of the. Tony and Clay are basically responsible for bringing like all of the, you know, anything new to Riverdale High, right? They're like, we are queer, we are black. We are like active activists, you know. and the white people at Riverboro are just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. All right. And so, but yeah, so in this episode, we also get to see that Clay is the leader of the

black literary society that Tony has formed called Black Athena, and he is like the obnoxious guy who talks too much. And of course, there's a rich history there, too, right, of like in activist circles in the 50s and 60s where women were like, oh, great, a revolutionary space for me too. And the men were like, eh, kind of, but let me kind of take up the most space. And so that I felt like was, you know, must have been a kind of purposeful choice to be like, even in these revolutionary spaces, other oppressive dynamics can play out. And so Tony's like, Clay won't shut up.

And Cheryl, meanwhile, is like, I feel kind of left out because Tony is so passionate about this group. And I'm a white person and I've never read any of these books. and I want to give her her space and respect that space, but also I feel like this is this huge part of this, my lover's life that I'm totally, totally boxed out of and I don't know how to relate. Yeah. And I think that they handled this pretty well.

Again, this was like another sad Cheryl episode. She was so sad and so timid the entire time. But I do feel like they are very purposefully giving Cheryl this role of being like a white person in 1955 who's becoming. aware of the way her own identity and her own, you know, privilege and power, you know, informs her relationship to others. And so she's being very careful to be like, Tony, I know this is your thing. And I feel a little bit left out. And I don't think that means I should be able to come, but I just want you to know that this is how I feel. I want to say that they did it well.

I kind of thought they did it well also because like, and the reason why she really feels this way is because Clay had already invited Kevin to come see him read something, like to read this poem. So that really triggered Cheryl and she wanted to, but I appreciate that she didn't like demand that she be invited. Yeah. She really did respect Tony and her space. I do think that I, if it was me, I wouldn't go.

But because again, it is their space. Yeah. And it's explicitly a club for black students to talk about black literature, specifically so that they can have a space that is for them where they can talk with each other. And so the fact that Clay was like, yeah, Kevin, come on over. But again, that kind of fits because Clay is like being the blowhard leader of the group. And Kevin is just thrilled. But then, yeah, of course, Cheryl is like, well, I'm a little bit hurt that Clay, like, loves Kevin enough to invite. fight him basically. And I think that Cheryl is, it's not, what I, I guess something that I

appreciate it was it wasn't really about, I feel like this part of this episode was not about Cheryl being insecure about her whiteness, although you can see that she's grappling with that. But I feel like it was her being insecure in their relationship. And I, I liked that, that it was about her being like, I just want Tony to show that she like loves me enough to invite me to these things. But also, I understand that this isn't my space. And ultimately, just to jump ahead, they do resolve it by Tony being like, okay, fine, you can come. And like, because I understand this means something to you. And so Cheryl reads Native Son, the book that they are reading that week, which is about a very wealthy family called the Dalton family. And Cheryl's like, I've never

read a book like this, which is, I still remember reading Native Son and like, miss. my stop on the subway repeatedly because it's, I was so in it. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and she's like, I've never read a book like this. I can't believe I've never read a book by like this. And they ask her, have you ever read a book by a black author before? And she says no. And she says, I read this book and I couldn't stop thinking about the ways that the Dalton family is like my family. And so she has this like super introspective, self-reflective experience about reading Native Son. And then immediately afterwards is like, thank you so much for inviting me to this space. And I am not going to come anymore unless they are public events because I understand that this is your space. And I do feel

like they handled that part very well. Yes, I think so too. And I appreciate how they navigated it. You know, they are, I think they're really trying here. I think they're trying. And again, they might not nail it every time. But like, it would be easy to not do this 195 thing well. And I did not expect them to do it well, to be honest. And it seems like they're really, they're really trying. And again, it's about Cheryl being, Cheryl just wants, you know, to know that Tony, she just wants security in her relationship with Tony, because as we learned a couple episodes ago, Tony, it's a bit of a fuck about. And she, she doesn't like to commit. And so Tony is challenging herself to open up to Cheryl well, maintaining the, you know, sanctity of this space that was created by black students for black students. And Meanwhile, Kevin is just like, this is great. I'm going to keep coming. But whatever, that's fine.

Yeah, the fact that he was there at the next meeting, I thought that was a one-time only thing. Yeah. Kevin, get out of there. Start a gay straight alliance, Kevin. Yes. And then you and Cheryl can go start your gay straight alliance, and that will be great.

Which Clay can also attend and then dominate those meetings too, you know. And this is all happening. While, you know, the boys are now working on their hobbies. Rod Moore and they're getting so back to the car. Is it jarring to go from Native Sun to the car? To the car? I found that a little jarring too, but they're fighting about the car again. They're fighting about the car because then Reggie takes, which also I thought was a little weird, but Reggie took out Veronica on a date and then just like didn't come home. And so Archie like stayed up waiting for him in the middle of the night. It was like, where'd you take my car? Yes, the parentification of Archie.

Archie becomes the mad dad. Mad dad. You have any idea where you've been? Yes. And Reggie's like, I went for a joy ride, which turns out to be a lie, by the way. It was a lie that he said. But that's what happened with his date with Veronica. And then Betty and Archie wanted to go on a date and they had to walk.

How dare they? But all of this leads up to them going on a double date. which please, I think that that, I'm, I'm here for it. It did make me, I'm about to juke, so get ready for this. Okay. It did make me wonder if they're going to do guys and dolls as the musical. What? Tell me how you got there.

Well, just because it's like, you know, it's like the four of them and then they like, and like, they want each other's partners, like that kind of thing. And I wonder if that's going to be something that they play with because I was trying to think of like what 1950s musical are they going to go with? But I really also wanted to give a shout out to Riley. Riley wrote in and said, okay, circle back to a few weeks back when MJ was perplexed, why basketball was in the forefront of this season when in the past, Riverdale has always been a football town.

What if the Riverdale writers are taking this golden opportunity to do the funniest thing possible and are setting up this season's musical episode to be none other than the highly mediocre high school musical as an homage to possibly the only group of people who stuck by their side since day one, and that is us. Wow. That is like, you know the meme of like the brain Riley, thank you. I'm with you on this. That is the ultimate galaxy brain take. Like this, this season, all of the things that are happening in the season are all for us. It's all for us. That's the version of reality that I want to live in. If they do high school musical too, though, I will be furious. So I hope that that's not what they've chosen for us. Because, yeah, you know, guys and dolls,

I was literally in the pit orchestra for a production of guys and dolls and I don't remember anything about what it was about. I don't remember the music. I think it's fine. We like it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that would be fine. That would be, that would make more sense than some of the other prominent 1950s musicals, though, you know. I just can't wait. Apparently the next episode, I never watch the next week on Riverdale part. I never watch it because I'm just like I like living in the dark. But apparently it's the Halloween episode next week. What?

Which is going to throw us for such a loop. Why would they do a Halloween episode in June? Because they follow the school year in the season. Right, right, right. Okay. Oh, my God. Are we, and we don't know that there will be a musical episode this season. We just know that there might be because it's River.

I mean, it's Riverdale. It's Riverdale. They always have a musical. I would, I mean, or like we said, or could be singing in the rain. What if it's a mashup of 1950s musicals, which I'm also very here for? It's just so funny because our interests overlap so much that really anything they do, we could say it's because of page seven, you know? Like, we can claim it no matter what. But if they did sing it in the rain, that would be great.

But that really thematically has, like, nothing to do with anything that's happening. Yes. But, okay, so, yeah, all right. That is an amazing, that is an amazing listener theory. I have to, I have to process that. We are certainly being set up, I mean, this is, this whole double date was just a big cocktease, though, for everybody. Oh, yeah. Because the girls are having fun with each other.

The boys are just fighting about the car to the point that while they are driving, they're driving out, by the way, to see fangs perform. and Fang's has a gig where all the cats and hipsters are going to be and Fangs has been like No, Midge, you're pregnant, you can't come, even though this might be my big break of a show. And so she's like, whatever. And so the Varchi and Vegee are driving the jalopy

out to the show. Car breaks down. The girls send the boys to go get gas. And then while they're waiting, midge and Tony and who else who was the third bitch in the car was it Cheryl yes pull up and they're they're like we're going to fangs show hop in girls and the girls just abandon Archie's car man abandon them that so hard because they got to go get gas yeah and so they just hop in with the girls and they have a girl's night going to fangs this show and the

boys go to pops get gas conveniently pop is like hey reggie I got an old car you want it to fix it up and Reggie's like, yeah, sure, that's great. And so then they walk back with the gas can to find the car, Archie's car, completely abandoned by the girls. And I wish, I wish that this was leading up to Archie and Reggie kissing each other. Because that's obviously what should happen. I know. It's what we all want. They're like in a cockfight the whole episode. Like, the only satisfying culmination of a competitive masculine cockfight is for them to kiss. Yes. But now, like, what also disappointed me and can we pour one out for the fact that they were all going to go see this amazing performance done by fangs? And we didn't get to see it. I know. Why didn't we get to see it? Where is it? I was very on Riverdale of that.

I know. I was like waiting for it. And then like in the end when he's all like looking like a greaser, I was just like, I want to watch him perform more. Yeah. And then he checks in with Midge afterwards. And he's like, thanks for coming after all, babe. You were right. I should have told you not to come. You're my. my lucky charm or whatever. And as he's talking to her, we like hear the echoes of what the performance was. We hear him singing like as a memory. And it's like, why, you're Riverdale. You love a musical number. Why didn't we get another scene where fangs performed? The scene where fangs performed in the first or second episode was one of my favorite scenes of the whole season. Yeah. It was great. Yes. So that was really annoying. And we didn't get to see Midge being there. Poor Midge, you know, she's a pregnant teenager in 1955. But she was there and I'll bet she a great time. Yes. I wanted to see it. Because a big part of their whole plot line is essentially

Fangs is trying to become legitimate so that she can like bring him home to her parents and not just be like, this is a greaser that knocked me up. But you can say this is a greaser rock star that knocked me up. Yes. He's trying to get signed by a label and there were some talent scouts at this show and it went really well. So we didn't get to see it. Yeah, and we didn't get to see it. I truly don't know why they did that. And I like that they're making us like try to care about Midge more. But like if you're going to make Midge happen, you got to give Midge a little more.

They've never ever given Midge enough. So to have Midge suddenly be this like really important person in Fangs's life, I'm just like, I don't like know her, you know, to quote Mariah Carey. Yeah, I don't know her also to quote Mariah Carey. Thank you for including that. I don't know her either. And in fact, I do appreciate that. that Shana, who also brought up the, who brought up the Bishop's interview earlier,

also did remind us, which I definitely forgot about. I was doing some Riverdale sleuthing when I was reminded that Midge and Fangs dated in season one. It was all on the D.L. But Fangs was even blamed for her murder for a while since he was the last one to see her. I completely forgot about that. Oh, my God. I keep thinking how I can't wait to rewatch Succession. Oh, yeah.

And I feel like I got to, I think we got to rewatch fucking Riverdale. I honestly do. I don't know if Jeff could handle it. Like, I don't know if he could handle me going back. That would be a solitary activity that you would have to do. Oh, that's lonely. I also, I need to bring up the fact of how, what really got Jeff this, there was a couple of points that really got Jeff in, in this episode. One of the points was when Reggie goes to ask Archie for his car to take Veronica on a date,

Archie is shaving in the locker room. And Jeff was just like, what is he? A divorced father? Why is he shaving in the locker room? He's 16 years old. No 16-year-old shaves in the locker room. Oh, yeah, you don't want to have any peach funds by the time you get to second period. that's not how it goes.

What are you talking about? And so he just needed to like rant about that for a while. That's fair. And I mean, I guess it was fair, but I was more so, I was kind of surprised at the, the, the iron about it. I didn't expect it at all. I was like, oh, do you not shave in locker room? I was like, I don't know.

I don't know what happens in a locker room. You know, I got to, I'm going to go out and say it. Archie was annoying again in this episode. Yeah, he was a little annoying. He was back to annoying Archie. everything he did was annoying. So I guess I'm here for Jeff being annoyed with Archie because I was also really fucking annoyed with Archie this episode.

Yes. Stop caring about your car so much, Archie. Yes. And that's why also Archie later on says like, I built it. Spark plug by Spark plug. And Jeff's like, that's not a phrase. That's not a phrase. No one has ever said that before.

Why did he just say it? He's like, he's a car guy. He should know better than that. So there was, I think that, yeah, you and Jeff really had the, I didn't have quite the, the anger towards Archie that you guys had in this episode. And it all culminates with the Archie and Reggie's stupid-ass car plot like culminates. And Reggie gets Pops's old jalopy that is just like, you know, on blocks and hasn't run for in forever. And he's like, I'm going to fix it up with the help of Betty.

And then Betty comes out in her coveralls and her sexy mechanics outfit. And Archie is very jealous, but who is he jealous of? Is he jealous of Reggie hanging out with Betty? Or is he jealous of Betty hanging out with Reggie? I think it's both. And I do like that. I do like that. I do also.

I want the wardrobe department to know that we've got two shoutouts for the wardrobe of every season. And that comes in from both Jade and Elise. And I just want you guys to know, huge shoutouts. just one of them even says department because throughout the entire series they are always so beautiful. Everyone looks so good all the time, especially Betty.

I also just have a crush on Lily Reinhart, but don't we all? I really can't get over how great the wardrobe on this show is. It's my favorite of any show ever. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I just needed to share.

Thank you, Jade. And thank you, Elise, because Elise also is inspired by the fits of the season and is starting to get back into their pin-up 50s out fits again. Hell yeah. I do love, like, it never worked for me, but one of my absolute favorite femme looks is that 1950s, like, housewife dress. Like, I always, that is like the type of dress I've

always been the most drawn to. And they just, they just look so good. But, okay, so now that we've gotten the Archie, Reggie, Veronica, and Betty shit out of the way, we got to talk about Jughead. Yes, we have to talk about Brad Rayberry and the death. And because we know it's not a suicide. And we do know that they just start hanging out in a dead man's apartment. But you know, Sheriff Keller basically deputized Jughead to investigate what happened. Yeah, shout out to this entire plotline because we definitely get a lot in this plot line. We get a lot. We get a lot. We get a we get, okay, so we find out a lot more about Brad Rayberry. We find out that, and by we, I mean Tabitha and Jughead by snooping around the belongings of a dead man in his apartment without the presence of police who has died under suspicious circumstances.

The police are like, just hang out in there. Move around whatever you want. It's fine. Yeah, just look. But, so they're just in there. They're vibing. and they find a, well, a couple of things happened. They realized that half of his paycheck is being sent to a PO box in South Carolina.

And the boss at Pep Comics is like, oh, yeah, like, he always asked that half of his money be sent there. And I think it was Sheriff Keller who was like, figure out, like, do we have it, does he have any family? We need to notify. And so they find this picture of a young, like a black and white. Which is a, the cop's job. Yeah. This is your job. What are we doing here?

Why are you giving this to a 16-year-old? I know, but we know that Sheriff Keller is a bad cop. He is, you know, I don't think they've made him explicitly a racist, but we know he's a homophobe. And we also find out that he is, not surprisingly, in 1955, a vehement anti-communist. And so they, Tabitha and Jughead find this picture of like a young black woman. and it has her name on it, which is June and a date. And they realize that this is Brad Ray Berry, who is a white man, that it's his wife. And so they call her and they notify her.

And she comes. These 16-year-olds, yes, call the wife of this person who is dead to let her know. To let her know. and she's just like, yeah, I'll come as soon as I can. And Jughead's like, that's fine. I'll just be in this apartment whenever you get here. I'll be ready. And she comes from South Carolina, which to wherever Riverdale is, which we still don't

really know. And she's like, yeah, we were married. But, you know, at this point, it's 1955. And they've already been together for a long time. And she's like, it was, you know, it was a mixed interracial marriage. And it was frowned upon. And basically we were targeted and harassed and we ended up basically temporarily living separately so that he could save money so that we could eventually like find a place together and be together, you know, in a better time and a better place, basically. And Jughead brings this information to Sheriff Keller to be like, I'm a little bit worried about what happened to Brad Rayberry.

Like this is what I'm finding out. And Sheriff Keller is like, well, how about this? Did you know he was a commie? Yeah. And did you know he was admitted to the psych ward? And so Jughead asks his wife and she's like, yeah, he was admitted, he admitted himself to the psych word because of like post-war like mental health trauma. And he and that kept him from going to Korea. Yes, right.

Oh, he was also a draft dodger. Yes. And Sheriff Keller alleged that he was a draft dodger. And he was, I think that they say he was a war. protest. He protested the Korean woman. Yes. Yes. And then I only wish, Riverdale, please, you're doing a real good job,

I think, with the anti-racism stuff. I only wish that she hadn't been like, yeah, he was, he had a communist card, but it was because he was young and curious and he only went to a few meetings. No, own it. No, let the man be a communist. Like, please.

Like, why did they have to be like, no, he wasn't really a communist? Girl, let him be communist. Please. Please, Riverdale. That was the one thing that really pissed me off. They like appalled because of course yes, in 1955

people were accused of being communists and that was the way to spear them and ruin their lives. And so I get that it's like being accused of being a communist was terrible even if you weren't really a communist. But also there were coolest shit communists to an awesome shit back then. Yes. The really important part of

American history and not something that should still be like re-encoded as something that was shameful to be. And so that was my only real grievance with this episode. It's good to be a communist, especially in 1955. But don't worry, he wasn't a communist.

He was just curious. He dabbled. He dabbled. And yeah, so that's their meeting with June. And then she's just like, by the way, are you guys going out with each other? And they're like, woo, no, no, no.

And they're like, no, no, no, no. We're just friends. And she gives them like a knowing smile. And she's like, all right, well, I wish you luck. Because, of course, if they do start going steady, Jughead and Tabitha will also be in an interracial relationship, which I've got to look up Loving v. Virginia, but I think may have still been illegal in 1955. What year was loving? Yeah, it was 1967. Damn.

So an interracial marriage in 1955 between Jughead and Tapatha would have still been quite illegal, at least on the federal. Oh, 1966. Yeah, man. Damn. I didn't realize it was that late. I don't know. This is one of those things where I don't know if states had legalized it. Oh, okay.

Gotcha. Probably it wouldn't have been illegal in Riverdale. This is something I totally should know, but I don't. But the first, like, the first time it was legal on a national level was Loving v. Virginia in 1967, which is just one of those things, one of the many things about American history when you learn it. And you're just like, oh, that's shameful. Oh, great. That's bad.

That is bad. So no more progress, though, this week on, in terms of, like, the theory from last week about our Jughead and Tabitha going to, like, be in this apartment and start remembering. Are we going to get any hints of, like, you know, the connection of 1955 Riverdale to the present day? We didn't get, we didn't really get any bigger term resolution on the bigger, you know, the bigger threads that have been

sewn so far in the season, except at the very end. Except. Except for the milkman. Because this creep from down the hall, this old bitch. I did not find this old bitch at all. You hate her. Oh, my God. And Jeff and I got to do quite a conversation because,

so this old woman comes down the hallway with her cat. And she's like, I know that the man is dead, but I did hear the milkman come just before he died. So if he's got extra milk, can I have it? Would you go to a dead man's home and ask for his dead man's milk? If you are a crazy cat lady, yes. Jeff said that there's nothing wrong with it. He said that it would be wasteful otherwise. And I was like, I would never go to a dead man's milk.

man's home and ask for his milk. I mean, you're both right. She probably shouldn't have done it, but it would be wasteful to let that milk sit around. And how does she know there's milk? Because her cat loves milk. And he heard the jingle jangle of the glass milk bottles. And she said, oh, quite a late night for the milkman to get a very strange hour. He doesn't usually come in the middle of the night.

And she said, because he's a killer milkman. The milkman came at late. late at night, the night that Brad Rayberry, the night before he was found dead, I believe. And she knows when he came because her cat heard the jingle jangle of the milk. And so this is when Jughead realizes, oh shit, the milkman, the same milkman who allegedly murdered, what's her name, Ethel's parents. Yes. So I wanted to have a quick jump back to a theory.

from Shana. Okay. Shana says, we know the milkman isn't Hal, we've seen his face. That said, Hal's murders in seasons 1 through 3 were all morality-based. This milkman seems to be doing the same

with a twist. Ethel is in trouble for drawing horror scenes, and her parents get axed. Jughead is writing comics, aka Satan's picture books, and his mentor, Brad Rayberry, is suicided.

So this obviously ties back to the school, right? What if the milkman comes for Alice next because Betty's being a little tramp? Likely, completely unrelated, but I came across a graphic novel called The Milkman murders about a sweet housewife who gets a strange visit from a milkman and suddenly decides to take revenge on her sinful and ungrateful family. Whoa. What if 1950s killer Cooper is going to be Alice? Whoa.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. It's a lot. Shada! Love it. Whoa. I love this. That is a deep cut. There are so many literary references happening in this season.

I know. Wow. Yeah. And it's such a, they really threw, they really fucked us up by showing us the milkman. Because if we hadn't seen him, we would be like, is it how? You know, like, we would assume it was. how. But that's why there's a reason why they're showing his face because someone must be behind what he is doing. Yes. They are not going to pull it. Was it season one or season two when we spent

the entire season being like, who's the murderer? And then it was some janitor we had never even met before. And then it was janitor not janitor because it was a juke. I'm still upset about that. I don't think it's going to be like, the murderer. It's someone who you don't know about. I don't think they're going to do that again. Not in the last season. Not in the last season. I don't I don't think they would do that to us. No, they're going to tie all these little threads together. Yeah, why is it, why is it the guy from Sabrina? And why?

What, oh, I don't, I mean, I'm excited that I don't know what's going to happen. Like, I really do not know. And this episode, they did, they did set us up for like, once again, they really set me up to want more. I remember we said last week that the episode kind of ended with like a bit of a blah. But this one was like, okay, Jughead. Now the Jughead gets it. Now we're going to start cooking with oil. Oh, yeah, babe.

Please get the investigation going. Let's get in it. I have enjoyed these last few episodes, but I do want more spookiness and I want more horror. That is the one thing that I really feel like has been missing. Like, yay for the like discussions about racism in 1955 and also bring in more killing. Like, that is what we are here for. Do you think Midge is going to die again?

They can't kill her. And the unborn baby, can they? I would be stunned if they killed a pregnant girl. They can't kill an unborn baby. They can't do that. Not today's political climate. No, they can't do that. I don't think that they will kill Midge again,

although how funny would that be if they were like, this bitch is dying again. Kill her again. You know what, kill her again. She just gets the sides to her that day. And she's like, God damn it. Come on. Don't kill me again.

Yeah. And where is Ethel? like, and we did get a little bit of like Betty and Veronica talking about how they're like parentless now, but they didn't really do anything with that this episode. Betty was just like, I'm really happy that my mom's out of my shit. So surely that's going to come back to haunt her. She was like, I'm doing great. I love not having a mom, basically. And Veronica was like, too. No, she's going to need her mom's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's going to be, they're going to hopefully rely on each other. And then maybe they'll start kissing. I don't know. Yeah, something fucked up is going to happen with the Coopers for sure. But how do the Coopers fit in with the Milkman? I do not know. I don't know. I don't know. But we are curiouser and curiouser. And thank you guys so much for joining us on this week's episode of Riverdale Roundup.

I want to say thank you to everybody that wrote in. You're just, you're killing it with the theories. You really are. I love the shoutouts. So just write in whatever you want. Any of your thoughts on Riverdale, I will read them. Yes. So if I didn't bring you up in today's episode, I just want you know, I still read it.

And I still absorbed what you said. And I just want to say personally, thank you. Yes. I always wait until after we record to read any Riverdale emails because I don't want any of the theories because I love having Jackie read them to me. And that because I'm just not, again, I'm just not one of those strategy people. I love watching mysteries. Gideon keeps making fun of me because we're watching Perry Mason. And I'm like, but wait, why did they do that?

And he's like, we don't know yet because it's a mystery. And I'm like, but shouldn't we? Like, I'm just like so, I'm so bad at watching mysteries. I'm like, I can't tell if this is something that everyone knows and I don't know because I'm dumb or if nobody knows because it's part of the mystery. I understand. It's part of the mystery. I had to ask those questions a lot when I watched Succession because I'm just like, I'm just making sure that we don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, right? Because I don't know what's happening.

Succession, I understand about 60% of what they say. And yet we love it. That's how good of a show it is. I know. And, oh, speaking, my last thought is, did you see, so there's a video of, uh, of the succession cast singing Say It Ain't So together. No. Which is really amazing.

And then like we'll move you to tears. And then now there is also, I keep doing these succession Riverdale parallels in my brain, which is very embarrassing because they're very different shows. But there is a video. Now I have to make sure I'm going to get the song right. But there is a video of the Riverdale cast. And I want to say they're singing country roads. But it's like it is so satisfying to see the riverdale.

to see the TikToks of the Riverdale cast like hanging out together. Yes. And like Lily Reinhardt tweeted out like what Betty wardrobe items should I steal? Yes. So like we're really seeing like the little cast having fun together and it's really nice. Ah, we love it. We love it. And thank you guys so much for joining us every week so that we can continue to talk about how much we love it.

And we love you guys. Thank you so much. And we will be back next week. Don't you worry. Bye. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors. You can support our shows by supporting them.

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