Page 7 - Riverdale Roundup Ch. 129: Shame With My Own Heteronormativity

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

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Hey, LPN fans, page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser are going on tour. Yes, the Last Podcast Network presents the release of Butthole Cut Tour could be coming to your town. Holden, where are we going? July 11th will be in Oklahoma City, July 12th, Kansas City, Missouri, and finishing out in July 13th, St. Louis. Be there. MJ, where can we get tickets? For tickets, go to Last Podcast Network.com. Say it again.

That's Last Podcast Network.com. Uh-oh, MJ. I can't believe we've been talking for 20 minutes and we did not bring up Betty and Veronica. Wow. I am just over the moon. How long are we going to get it for? Did we even know this is what we needed and what we wanted? Can I tell you that my first reaction to this episode was shame with my own heteronormativity that I never once considered standing.

Betty and Veronica. And it was right there in front of our faces this whole time. How close-minded am I? I just, I'm so excited, especially because of course they were going to end up like shacking up at some point. Right, we did predict that. Yes. We did not predict what we did. No, we did not.

Now, of course, obviously, we are jumping far ahead here. But this was definitely one of those, like, I feel like you could feel this. is a cornerstone of the plot of things, but it didn't really make a lot of stuff happen in this episode. Yes, yes. Not a lot happened. Like, two to three really important things happened in this episode, and that's it.

We did not get much movement forward on our spooky stuff or really on anything at all between most of the characters, except for Betty and Veronica. This was a Betty and Veronica episode. And it was a bit of an Archie and Ritchie and Ritchie. Reggie episode, you know, whatever. Oh, my God. How much, but then that was my whole, then I just kept going kiss.

Kiss every time Archie and Reggie were in a scene together. It was like, all right, we're going, let's do it. Come on, let's do it. Yeah, and that's the thing. As satisfied as I am to see some, you know, same gender kissing between two of our four principles that I did not anticipate, it would be all the more satisfying to get some boys kissing on Riverdale and it hasn't happened yet.

I mean, we got Kevin and Clay. We got Kevin and Clay. But I mean a surprise mix up the way that we, again, I just never thought of Betty and Veronica kissing. I can't believe I didn't think. We've been asking for a threesome. We've been asking for a foursome. So we've kind of, it's kind of vaguely been in the back of our mind

that it would be great if they were in a sexy situation together. But I never once thought of them directing their horniness towards each other. and man, what a missed opportunity for us to not think about this for the last seven years because, listen, people know how I feel about Betty. They know how I feel about Veronica, which is not as good as I feel about Betty. And I love them all the more when they are together. Yes, because I love their friendship the best. Yeah, their friendship is good. Yeah.

I really love their friendship. Yeah. But of course, if you want to throw Reggie in the mix, I wouldn't look away. You know, I'd definitely go, ooh, yes, please, can I have some more? Also, you know, I'm sure you follow all of this on Instagram, but those actors are having the time of their life right now. They just wrapped. They're posting many, many good TikToks and photos.

And I do want to see all of the characters kiss, but I also want to see all the actors kiss, but not the ones that have a bad romantic history. Yes, because a lot of the actors have kissed, as we do know. and I love, but it also makes me sad for them. I know, they seem really sad. I know, they're so sad leaving Riverdale. They seem really sad.

They just wrapped. And so there's all these like wrap photos posting and people are sharing all of their thoughts and sentiments. And it does, I mean, yeah, if you're 20 between the edges of 25 and 30, as most of the actors are, and you just spent the last seven years on a show together. I mean, that's like college, you know, like, that's like going to college twice. Yeah, it's getting your PhD alongside someone. With each other all through. That's longer. I don't know.

Getting your master's. I don't know. It's getting your master's alongside somebody. Yeah, it's a bachelor's and a master's program. Yes. But instead of whatever skills you walk away from with a master's, you're just walking away with probably a lot of hookup stories, I hope. And apparently a lot of fond feelings.

those actors really seem to have enjoyed their time on Riverdale together. And that makes me happy because we have speculated in the past. Do they all feel like they're in a hostage situation? Do they hate this? Do they dream of being free from this beast of Riverdale? And it's so nice for them to go out on such a bang. And I'm really happy for them. And I do find myself bizarrely moved by seeing all of these actors talk about how sad they are that the show is ending.

I know. And it's so weird to be. in the middle of the season, just knowing this impending doom is coming of all of our end. I know. I know, because then you and I are going to have to figure out what comes next for us. Ouch. Don't make me think about the future. MJ, you know it's early here.

Yes, don't you love staring down? You know, you got a birthday coming up. You're in your mid-30s. I know you spend a lot of time thinking about your future. And now we've got to think. We are already thinking, what do we, Jackie and MJ do after Riverdale? And we're very open to ideas. If you have ideas, you can always email them along with your Riverdale theories to page 7

podcast at gmail.com because we are going to be looking for meaning in our life after this. Oh my God. Please give us meaning. Because the only meaning that I was getting from this life was a wooga, just even thinking about Archie and Reggie, just hanging out, talking about. talking about cars, talking about girls. Oh, it's the simple life for these boys. Just talking, this is, this is what we begged for was like, remember the days when they're just playing sports and it's who's going to be captain of the team? Yeah. And we're back to that. It's true. Oh, yeah. Beautiful simplicity. Yeah, it's true. We last left off on a cliffhanger because it was Halloween and bad, bad triplet Julian. decided to take all of the Bulldogs. Bulldogs on a joyride,

and then they ended up in the river, and we find out at the beginning of this episode that Reggie saved all the bulldogs from the river, so it's a good thing he was in the car, except Julian is in a coma. And I love a coma plotline. Can't have a last season of a long-running television show without a coma plot line.

With a coma plot line, you're right. So now Julian's in a coma. Reggie is sad because you know, the town continues to be very racist against him, especially Clifford Blossom. And Clifford Blossom is basically like, let's make Reggie the fall guy for this. Let's pin it on him and let's get him out of here. I do love how often Clifford Blossom is loudly talking about his evil plans in the other room. And every time he was like, you'd think that if he is the mayor, if his manipulation has gotten him and his money and his greed has gotten him to be the mayor of this town,

That you'd think that, or maybe if you have that much clout, you never have to worry about how loud you're talking about your evil plans. Maybe I'm wrong and I just don't know these things because I've never been that, you know, well off and evil before. Yeah, the Clifford Blossom character in this season is a little heavy-handed, I would say. I mean, he's always been. Whoa. Whoa. I don't know about that, MJ. And as you pointed out, many, like right at the beginning of this season, he is wearing just a baffling wig.

Love the wig. That is very hard to focus. Hard to focus on anything else. Is it the same guy as the first season as the same actor? Okay. Yeah. So he is just kind of back in a big way. And he is just, yeah, kind of a cartoonishly evil racist who's like, we've got to get that Reggie boy out of here.

Which is why I think with how good they are at putting wigs on, because like everyone's got, like a lot of them have different fun. wigs that I'm sure. But like, I think that they do that on purpose to make him look a fool. Yeah, right. It must be an, exactly. It is one of those wigs where you're like, this must be an intentional choice. In addition to it being a red, it's red hair and so that he's a redheaded blossom. But it is just, he's wearing, I mean, he's honestly, he's costumed fantastically. He's wearing this, like, he's always wearing an elaborate dressing gown if he's at home. And he's, like, in his lounge, sipping things,

sipping cocktails and listening to the radio. And he just is a very, he is our kind of cartoon villain, but then also we get our other cartoon villain back in this episode with a principal, or psychologist. I'm never going to remember their names, Jackie. Featherhead?

Featherhead's the principal, Dr. Worthers. Wurthers, Dr. Wothers. The, the creepy hangar-on psychologist. So he's back to foil Jughead. And Clifford Blossom is foiling Archie and Reggie. And the moms, especially Alice Cooper, are foiling Betty and Veronica. Alice Cooper, because Hermione Lodge just straight up isn't there. But this is the moms are the foils to the girls in this episode.

And bad daddy is the foil to the boys. Also, Molly Ringwald was serving at this episode. I know. I thought she looked great this episode. Finally. Oh, oh, yes. Finally, they're letting her be sexy and not just like that. I was like, we've been asking for more thirst from Molly Ringwald because she can do it,

but they just haven't, she hasn't gotten to be the sexy parent that the skeets have and the Hirams have, you know. No, no, the lickability of those parents that, oh, God, don't we miss them. But, oh, we miss them. We do. Uncle Daddy just isn't just not there for me. I know. Uncle Daddy was also in this episode, but he was completely unremarkable. Except for like kind of standing up for Reggie and Archie a little bit.

He tried because like there's just so much they're really trying to kick out Reggie. And like I think it's also just really sad of the fact that like he knew that Clifford Blossom was going to blame him if those bulldogs died in the car. Right, right. Yeah. So basically in this episode, Archie and Reggie's mission is to be like Clifford Blossom. Not only should you not ship away Reggie, but you should let him be team captain. Well, because Julian's in the coma. Right.

And I don't know why, okay, I'm not saying that, like, if you have a tumultuous relationship with your brother, that you wouldn't be crying over the coma of your brother. But I feel like Cheryl was really acting like in this episode. I was like, she's acting like Julian is JJ. Because I feel like it was like a definite, I was just like, this is her relationship with JJ. a relationship with Julian. Or maybe she's just that extra and she would be that way no matter what. I was thinking that same thing because they do differentiate her relationship with Julian, who again, we don't know why is Julian this season and not JJ. We still don't know.

But our working theory is that JJ's in the suite hereafter. That's why he couldn't come back. But like, so they have this relationship, but they haven't. I continue to feel like I just want more from Cheryl this season. I just feel like she hasn't had an opportunity to be Cheryl that much. She's either been kind of like sad and like struggling in figuring out her sexuality and her relationship with Tony or she's been like sad and struggling with her relationship with Julian. And we just haven't gotten like badass boss of the school of Cheryl, which is, you know, who she was for the previous six seasons. And so yeah, seeing her kind of like crying at Julian's bedside, it's like, I don't know if. they've built up this relationship enough for this to make sense, you know, but I, I mean, right, it is her brother. And so she kind of like holds vigil at his bedside all episode. Yeah,

I just want, I continue to want more from Cheryl. I want, I want Cheryl back in the sense that this, I want her, in 1955, she's not her confident self. She's like totally floating around, you know. But I will say she did stand up to Daddy when, like, because this whole time, like, all of this is happening. But they still, like, the Bulldogs still have to play basketball. Right. So they still have to keep playing games. And Cheryl goes to Daddy. And it's essentially like, Daddy, I'm upset that you're still going to have the Bulldogs play their games when Julian, who's the captain of the team, is in a coma.

And he got very scary towards her. Yeah. And then he makes her speak at the Pepper. even though she's like, I don't want you. Yeah. I'm in a coma. He says, you'll put on that happy little face

and you'll cheer your little heart out until your spoiled pink lungs bleed or you'll suffer a fate worse than Julian's. Yeah. Do I make myself clear? But also, does that mean you'll suffer a face worse than Julian's? I feel like, did, like, are we going to find out how they went off? Did they get, like, run off the road?

Right. Right. Oh, wow. Yeah, did something more nefarious happen to the Bulldogs than them accidentally going off of the road. Dun, done. Yeah, and I guess we don't know. I wonder if that's, I mean, right, because the reason Cheryl's not herself this season is not because of her. It's because of the way the world is in 1955, right?

Right. It's because of her dad has. It's not a Cheryl world. Exactly. Her dad has control over her and she lives in a homophobic world. And so maybe that's with a takeaway. And maybe we need freedom in order to reach our true Cheryl, you know. And right now, Cheryl's being held back from reaching her to Cheryl because of the structural inequalities of the 1950s.

We got to freeze Cheryl. We got to bring her back to 2023. Yeah, that's the question. First of all, as I'm constantly wondering every episode, where are we in the arc? How many more episodes are left? And how are they going to get back to the present? There has been, and that's my only real complaint about this episode. There was really no movement forward.

There was very, there was a little bit of stuff with the Milkman, which we can talk about with Team Jughead and Ethel back together, which is nice. But other than that, this episode was really just about kind of celebrating and exploring the sexy, slightly now queer friendship between B and V. But like there is no, I continue, and I know you got a lot of theories up, I continue to have no idea how they're how they're going to take this home. I know they will, but I have no idea. No idea. I did want to sprinkle in a couple of theories as we're talking here. Okay. Speaking of horniness, Meta wrote in and said, a friend of mine who is the last one of

anyone I know to still keep watching Riverdale pointed out something interesting. With the incredible new horny Betty we've met this season, could it have a connection to her being? the harlot of Babylon. I've blocked out so much of the P who must not be named plotline and whatever he was up to, but it was an interesting throwback potentially. I, I, kind of love it. Jackie and I have talked about, I can't remember if we've talked about this, into microphones or out of microphones, but we, like, truly don't want to talk about Percival.

We don't remember the Percival seasons. I don't know him. I don't know him. I don't know him. And when somebody, and in the way, we joke about, like, the Chad Michael Murray era and the Oregon harvesting and all that. But, like, when somebody mentions that, I'm like, oh, yeah, that time. And when someone brings up something that happened with Purcell, I'm like, oh, my God, the harlot of Babylon. The harlot of Babylon.

What a journey we've been on. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. And that's the question. What is going to be brought back? Like what, obviously everything that has happened has happened in this universe. But like, like Riverdale does, sometimes threads get found and sometimes threads get lost. And I do not know if any of that stuff from last season is going to come back or if they're going to kind of take it.

I mean, it was just such a trash season. How are they going to kind of land? How are they going to steer this ship with that as a foundation, you know? I couldn't possibly tell you. Like, what would that even mean? like it's a callback to her being the harlot of Babylon like it is a good point so this is not a complaint to meta it's a complaint to the universe of riverdale what would that even mean to have it be like oh it's because she's a she's like horny now because last season she was the harlot of

babylon i don't even know what if i had to write a paper up with that as a prompt i don't know what the next sentence would be you know i think that it's going to have something to do with the um with bailey's comet uh-huh uh-huh right see here's Who knew that when we started Riverdale Roundup, that we would have to have a better knowledge of the Bible to be able to discuss some of the plot lines because I'm going to throw it out there. I really don't know that much about the Harlet of Babylon. Yeah, right, right. You're right. That's the piece that's missing is knowing the mythology of the Harlot of Babylon that Riverdale might be calling into.

Yeah, you need a lot of preexisting knowledge to truly follow Riverdale right now. You need to have like a pretty good working, or if you have a good working foundation of science fiction, you know, and short stories of the mid-20th century, you're going to do much better this season than the rest of it. The whore of Babylon is the spirit of seductive culture, actively engaged in the deception and destruction of God's people. That she rides upon the beast means she is propped up by the forces of anti-Christian government. Okay. Yeah. So that's just a little snippet into the horror Babylon, which I'm pretty sure I read almost something very similar.

The first time we discussed the horror of Babylon because... Yes, I do remember. We had to look up a lot of biblical things last season, for sure. Yeah, we're just like looking for like cliff notes on the book of revelations, you know? But, well, let's get into the horniness of this episode, right? and the central central what's driving. Well, let's talk about, because honestly, that's not even, is that the central plot?

Because we haven't even talked about Ethel and Jughead yet. Yeah, yeah. So let's discuss horniness because then we got to talk about Ethel. We got to talk about Ethel and Jughead. And again, they were there in this episode, but we didn't really get a lot more to kind of hang our hat on

in terms of what's going on with the Milkman. We didn't really get anything. But we will talk about them. I'm glad that they're teaming up. I'm glad that they are working. together. We still want more thirst for Ethel. We did get a little bit of thirst for Dilton Doyley in this episode, which we could talk about. Oh, yes, because there was a bit of a sleepover. So finally in this episode, we see B&V getting closer to each other that they find, that,

that Veronica finally opens up and tells her that she's staying at the Babylonium because she got kicked out of the house. Now, all this is while at the beginning of this episode, they didn't know what to do with Ethel because Ethel still is a minor and still has to live with adults. So essentially she had nowhere to go because Jughead's like she can, you know, stay with me. She will find a place for her to go even though Veronica is definitely living without adults, but I guess you have to have just killed somebody and then you can do whatever you want. Yeah, Jughead lives by himself in a train car, which the sheriff of the town knows. because he trashed the train car. So yeah, it is a little bit strange that many of the children are like knowingly living without adults. And we're, it's not, that's not a 195 thing. That was happening in the present times in Riverdale as well. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So they can't just let Ethel live anywhere. So Alice Cooper decides to take her in, even though it was Alice Cooper who put her into the Sisters of Quiet Mercy last time Ethel was staying with them. But she claims that that was Hal's idea.

to send her to the Sisters of Quiet Mercy, which that peaked my ears. I don't know if it peaked yours. 100%. That's got to be a foreshadowing of something's about to happen with Hal. Yes. And I want it to happen soon. I'm tired of waiting.

Yes. What's going to happen with Hal? Something's happening with Hal because he ain't acting right. And we know he's a serial killer, but is he a serial killer here as well. How is he connected to the milk man? Right. But so they take in Ethel and remember Alice Cooper was like,

Betty, I'm not your mother anymore. Right. So she hasn't been a mother to Betty anymore, but then she decides to be like above and beyond a mother to Ethel now trying to be this like, Betty homemaker. So what does Betty O'Maker, Jackie, Alice Homemaker, if anything, Betty decides to go and live with Veronica when Veronica tells her that she lives at the Babylonium by herself. And she's like, why do you actually wait, instead of come and living in the Babylonium, why don't you come and live at the Pembroke with me? We'll sneak into the Pembroke, which is there, like, Veronica's old home, which also, if you could have gotten away with living there the entire time, why didn't she just live there?

I know. This is one of the many times that just want to throttle Veronica to be like, what will, what do you think is going to happen if you go back to the Pembroke, Veronica? Do you think Smithers is going to find you? Yes. So, Smithers. Fines her like a day later, but not before they have a sleepover. First, they have a wonderful, wonderful sleepover, which was just a very Riverdale experience,

a spontaneous musical number where it's the two girls. And then they also invite the boys, the gay boys to come. And so Kevin and Clay come and they have a extremely kind of like it felt like it should have taken place in a swimming pool, you know, kind of like a water ballet. And they sang my favorite God, I watch that man. out of my going to watch that man right out of my and there was I love that song there was bubbles everywhere it was like it was so it was like obviously Riverdale does this all the time where they just have spontaneous musical numbers at a non otherwise non musical episode and it's always very self-aware but also I was like are Kevin and Clay like not acting in this scene because they were just like it seemed like all of the actors had this look on their face that was just like man this is so dumb. but like they also just looked like they were having a lot of fun, you know?

And I don't know, there was just something about that musical number where it felt like it just feels like Riverdale's taking a victory lap where they're just like, yeah, you know what? This is what we're going to do. Does it make sense? No. Did it ever make sense? Absolutely not. Are we going to lean into it? Yes, we are.

Yes, because they're just getting so meta with it and it's so fun. Yes, it's very, very meta. And so then, after they do their little musical number, very much appreciated, thank you Riverdale for the spontaneous musical number that felt like a, water ballet. They are sitting around gossing, and the girls ask Kevin and Clay to basically tell them about the dick size of every boy in the locker room

because they get to be naked together in the locker room. And it's a great scene. It's a great scene. They're all getting drunk off of mommy and daddy's booze. Yes, they're getting drunk. And so they're like, you know, basically they're like, who's bigger, Archie or Reggie?

And they're like, They're both good. And they're like, but you know who really is the star of the locker room? Dilton Doyley. What? Good for Dilton. You know, give them something. Now, somebody did message me on Instagram and said, this was before I had watched the episode.

Somebody a message me and was like, they must listen to you guys. And I was like, what? What happened? And they were like, well, wait and watch this episode and you'll see. And I don't know what moment in this episode now that they're referring to. If that was you who messaged me, message me and tell me. But maybe it was us being like, give Dilton some sex. Because we have been screaming for that and clamoring for that.

Although presumably this episode was filmed before we started clamoring for Dilton to get some sex. And he doesn't even get sex. He just gets acknowledged as a sexual being. As he should, he's a teenager. And there's no reason for us to believe that he doesn't want to fuck. And so he should get fucked too. And so he doesn't get fucked, but he does get to have a big D. So that's nice.

Yes. And it could just also be the kissing. It could be got to wash that man right out of my hair because that song gets stuck in my head fairly often. So it could be that. Really? This is like, that's a Jackie song. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Interesting.

It's just the one song from South Pacific that for some reason gets trapped in my head. Yeah. I mean, not for some reason. It's because I can say, you know, it's over and over again. It's not just that. That's not the only lyrics of the song. But of course, they show up to, I loved them at school the next day, all in sunglasses at the pep rally because they're all hungover. Yeah, that was cute.

And they just like are like looking over at Dilton and seeing Dilton Doily in a new way. Yeah. It just was, oh. It was really cute. It just does my heart good. Yeah. It's my heart sing. Yeah.

And then, well, then the next day is when, you know, it's just B&V that are hanging out. Right. And they start having a very intense conversation just about what they want and, you know, where their heads are at. And then, of course, it comes around to, like, have you ever kissed another girl before? And, you know, Veronica had, but Betty hadn't. And then they were like, oh, my God, what are we? We really kissed. and then Molly Ringwald and Smithers come into the room.

I know. And I will say that Camilla Mendez and Lily Reinhardt had a lot of chemistry. Yes. Yes. It was a really, really good scene. It was really well acting. And it was like, it was really, really believable, eminently believable. Oh, yeah.

In a way that. A mouth agape. Just like, yeah. Yes. Like, it was so, it was really unexpected. Like, and I like to think that if Reggie and Archie had a similar scene, they would sell it just as well as these two actors did. But like, sure. Like, do we have that kind of faith in KJ.

I don't know if we do. Maybe. But, I don't know. 1955 Archie's really been showing up. I know. I know. We've been really loving KJ. Appa this season.

But yeah, they just really, it's, it's just a really good. see it. I was wondering like does this really feel like a believable conversation between two girls in 1955? But what, but I think that it was so fun because they are two girls in 195, but also they're not. They're two girls from 2023. And so it's like there, that felt like that was kind of like coming through a little bit in the way that they're just like, were these girls and we're in this time, we're like, you know, kind of victims of our circumstances. And then just like how quickly they can kind of open up to be like, but have you ever thought about kissing a girl? And then Betty goes, yeah, and it's you. And it was a really, really good scene. If you don't watch a video and you just listen to the show, again, worth watching this entire season. But worth watching that scene. It was very satisfying.

And I also forgot to say the reason why Melanie Ringwald comes in was because the day when they were hung over at school, they go shopping. And I forgot that apparently Mary has a, has her own, like, thrift store, like boutique store. Which I, when, I don't know, did she always have this store? No, because she's a lawyer. Yeah. But maybe she can't be a lawyer in 1955. Were there not female lawyers in 195? No, there must have been.

Are you looking up? When could women become lawyers? But yeah, she was definitely a lawyer before. She never had a clothing store. Yeah. 1878. Oh my God, I can hear Jeff being ashamed of us not knowing this about history. Jeff wouldn't be ashamed.

But he just would know. I just, I'm so used to being like, because I am going to talk about the diatribe that Jeff went on about the comics code authority censorship. Okay. When we get to our conversation about Ethel and Jughead. Okay. But apparently women made up three to four percent of judges and lawyers in the 1950s. Yeah, I'm sure it wasn't a whole hell of a lot. Yeah.

So it sounds like you could be a lawyer, but probably I guess Molly Ringwald doesn't get to be one of the lawyers back in 1950. No, boutique. All right. We get it, Riverdale. We get it. Riverdale was a bad time in every way. Yes. And that's, but that's how Molly Ringwald finds out that.

Betty and Veronica are both staying at the Pembroke. Right, right, right. And so then, yeah, her and Smithers come in, and Smithers is like, the squatters. And honestly, I'm sorry, Smithers. You should betray Hiram and Hermione and protect Veronica. Yes. Because that is a child.

And are you really not going to just let her live in her home because you have some allegiance to Hiram and Hermione? So Smithers betrays them. and because Molly Ringwald is not Betty is not Alice Cooper. She is like, well, let's figure out how to help you. And so they have like a sit down basically with the mothers. And they, the girls tell Molly Ringwald, you know, Alice Cooper disowned Betty. Like, I don't have a mother anymore.

And to her credit, Molly Ringwald is like, wow, that's terrible. what a terrible woman who would do that which is surprising because there's never anybody who really like breaks the facade of like what reality is like in Riverdale and so she's just like well that's fucked up and then they basically what how do we get

from that there's like a they have a sit down with all the moms all the moms are in their bathroom she just talks to Alice Cooper and essentially just like she shows up and like reprimands Alice Cooper because like Molly Ringall was wearing this fucking fit she was just looking really good and she was just like dressing her down essentially.

That's right. I'm just like, you be a better mother. This is ridiculous. Like you can't just kick her out. This is even, you know, I thought it was a great scene. Yeah. I thought that, and so essentially she's allowed to come back to the house. Right.

And you don't even see Mary talking to, to Hermione. Sorry, I blanked on Hermione's name for a second. And it's like she doesn't even exist anymore. Dr. Hermione, because now Veronica can go back to living at the Pembroke. Yes, yes, right. And Betty basically goes back, right, the bathrobe scene where all the moms are in their bathrobes and their hairnets, that's when they're trying to figure out what to do with Ethel. Right. And so the theme, I guess you could say that a theme of this episode is what to do with all the children who need adults to look after them.

And so Betty gets to kind of go home and slightly be re-accepted by Alice, but that's basically, that's where we leave them, right? There's nothing really, there's nothing that happens. There's no foreshadowing yet of what's going to happen with Betty now that she's home. There's no hell in this episode at all. Well, no, because, well, Veronica calls Betty in the middle of the night, remember? And then they say that they miss each other and they talk on the phone, like that they're going to sit next. Well, at least that happens. Yeah, right.

That, like, that wasn't just like, oh, let's just like, let's just kiss. Oh, yes, totally. Like that. Totally. They do, right. They call it. Solidified that like, oh, no, no, no. This is going to continue.

Yes, because their kiss got interrupted. And we do get a nice little moment between them where they're like, I miss you. I'm thinking of you. And they're like, oh, I was, I'm thinking of you too. And it's really sweet. And it's like, it walks a wonderful line of being like, it's like both friend and like, maybe I have a crush on you, but also you're my best friend. It just is like, they really earned it. I think that they're, it's really working. Give the people what they want and what they didn't even

know they needed. Now, we need to, this is all culminating to a big basketball game, by the way. So like, you know, we're talking about before Clifford Blossom is still trying to get Reggie off the team. And he's trying to bring someone like them back in being very hampherson. with how evil Clifford Blossom is. Right. And, you know, the entire time Archie was given the captainship, even though he's like, Reggie should obviously be the captain. Yeah.

And everybody knows that anybody knows that Reggie should be the captain of the team. And they're fighting towards that because they have this big game against Stonewall Prep. Stonewall Prep comes and steals Peppy. They're made of metal. dog, I don't, what is it called? Mascot. Mascot. It's like heirloom, airloom's not the word.

This was making me think of the Saved by the Bell episode where they steal the Bayside High Valley, the valley rivals, steal Bayside High as mascot, but that's a conversation for a different podcast. Whoa. No, because now we need to talk about Ethel, the murderer. Yes. So we, so essentially, Sheriff Geller shows up to the murder site and was like, Well, that's a one and done situation. Guess this is case closed. And Ethel's like, wait, wait, wait.

What about the milkman? What about like this milkman that I just killed? Right. And he's like, well, you killed him. Guess it's done. She's like, but where did he come from? Why is he? And who is he?

And it can't just be, you know, essentially the same conversation has had with Dr. Werther's and Principal Featherhead. Right. And they're like, essentially Dr. where they're just like, oh, he must have been a drifter who stole milkman's clothes and started killing people. Yes. And they're like, that also doesn't make any sense. I do love the extent, the extent to which they're just like, oh yeah, in the 1950s, everyone was just like afraid of drifter, this kind of vague concept of a drifter. And he's like, there's no even need to figure out

any sort of justification other than like, he was a drifter, must have just came in, wanted to kill some people and then keep it moving. And they were like, but he didn't keep it moving because he stayed here dressed like a milkman and came after ethel's parents and then came after ethel and also brad rayberry and they're just like well we have no explanation for that he must have been a drifter and so so um jughead and ethel are not only working to figure out what's the story with the milkman they've also been rehired now that ethel is free from the sisters of quiet mercy they've been rehired as a as a author illustrator team by the leader of pep comics Pepp comics.

But they can't make a milk band story because he's getting a lot of heat about the moral panic around comics. Because, you know, and this was, I guess, a very real thing that there were like, you know, comics served the devil. And this is the cause of all of this hedonism and immorality and whatever. So he's like, make whatever you want. Just don't make it about the milkman. And that is a real thing that happened in, this was around 1954 and 1919. was when they brought in the Comics Code Authority, which I don't know anything about this. And Jeff is like, it's on a lot of comics.

You can see, like, the CCA, like, it still is. That, like, it was created back then as the censorship bureau that, like, you had to get your comic approved by the Comics Code Authority. And, like, if you read into, like, it's, of course, not only against violence, but also, like, very racist and very, like, held a lot of comics back from what they wanted to actually be writing. They, even there was a rule that you can't use words like horror or terror or weird in the titles. Whoa. So at this time, like,

at this time, this was going up against this big comic, uh, company called EC Comics, which apparently it's Ray Bradbury wrote for EC Comics. And so, So I guess EC Comics is supposed to be like the PEP comics, like that they're actually writing what happened loosely in history about the Comics Code Authority. That's exciting.

I didn't. And like that's, so EC Comics used to try and go against them. And so did Tales from the Crypt. And they used to still try to put out issues anyway. But unfortunately, they had to acquiesce to the Comics Code Authority. like they put finally like censorship won in the end. Really? Yeah.

And then Tales from the Crypt like had to like fold for a long time and they came back later on. Wow. That's so. I knew that this was like, I knew that it was based. I knew that there was like a moral panic around comics, but I didn't know it was as, what they're doing is as specific as like the comic like publishing house that Ray Bradbury worked for. I didn't know that they were that they're really like harkening to that level of

specificity. Down to the fact that apparently EC Comics did the same thing that Pep Comics does in the show where they like took some of his stories and then Ray Bradbury went to them and they were like and wrote them a letter and was just like, hey, just waiting on that check whenever you send that check because he found out that they were using his stories and they ended up bringing in Ray Bradbury. And it's the same thing that happened to Brad Rayberry. I say it's the same thing that happened.

It's the opposite. What happened to Brad Ray Bradbury also happened to Ray Bradbury. Wow. That's awesome. I really am in awe of the level of, like, I feel like there is world upon world upon happening with this Riverdale, you know, and for people who know all the literary references that are happening, there's just like a, it's just such a rich text. And I'm really happy for them that they are, again, bringing it home so well.

I don't know how it's all going to come together, but I know that the roads they are laying are very satisfying. Yes, because now, like, Ethel's trying to deal with her trauma of just having murdered someone. Right. And she's like, can I write the Milkman too? And the guy at Pep Comics is like, nah, bitch, there's like, there's just, like, you just killed him. So we should probably like cool it on the milkman stuff. But I love it that they just changed what they were writing.

They're like, okay, all right, all right. What if it happens to a mailman instead? The mailman. And he's like, that's fine. Even though, yeah, he's like, we're getting a lot of heat from the milkman stuff. I don't really want the attention. And then they're like, what if it's the mailman? And he's like, that's totally fine.

So I love it. Yeah. So there, I'm glad that the dream team is back together. But again, despite that, there's, really no foreshadowing of what's coming next in terms of the milkman plotline. I'm like totally out to see. Well, we've got a couple of thoughts coming in from Caitlin. And Caitlin, I just want to say that I woke up Jeff with this Brad Rayberry theory this morning. And he just looked at me. He's like, are you talking about Riverdale? I was like, yes. Because I was reading through the Riverdale

emails. I just want to say, thank you. Thank you so much, Caitlin. Caitlin says, okay, Brad Rayberry, right? Okay. His ex-wife mentions that Brad Rayberry used to work the graveyard shift at the Maple Factory. Who else worked at that unnamed factory? Ethel's father. So far, everyone murdered by the Milkman has some connection to the Blossom Maple Factory.

Uh-huh. What does it mean? Uh-huh. Not a clue, but clearly something fucked is happening at that. that Maple Factory. I'm guessing it somehow ties back to the weird old man cabal of Mayor Clifford Blossom, Dr. Worther's, and Principal Featherhead. Now they continue on.

Caitlin says, the Milkman cometh. I think he was trying to swack Ethel in the last episode because she's the one murder victim who got away, though why she needs to be murdered is still a mystery. He visits Ethel's old house, remember last episode, which makes sense. But how does he know to go to Ray Berry's apartment to find her? Possibly Sheriff Keller, Dr. Worther's, or Principal Featherhead figured it out based on Jughead's reaction to Ethel's escape from the Sisters of Quiet Mercy. They seemed pretty sure Jughead is helping her, and presumably Sheriff Keller knows Jughead had access to Rayberry's old apartment. Maybe they figured out that Ethel was hiding there, and one of them sent the milkman.

Uh-huh. But who knew that she was there? Well, if they knew that Jughead had been using, like, had access to the apartment, so maybe they would think, oh, maybe, because remember they were going to go check his, like, Jughead's place to make sure that Ethel wasn't hiding. Uh-huh, uh-huh, right. Okay, right. So that makes sense.

They knew that Jughead was using the apartment. They knew that Ethel was linked to Jughead. Yeah, I mean, that makes because as we were talking about before, there's a... Thank you, Caitlin. Oh, thank you, Caitlin. There's a lot of work being done to set up, Clifford Blossom as, you know, evil guy, which is like, well, he's always evil guy, right? He was evil guy before.

He's evil guy now. But so it's hard to know whether he's the center, the central villain or is it going to be Hal who's the central villain, right? Like, we don't know who the villain is yet. It was the milkman, but like not the milkman who's the milkman working for, you know? And so if how it's all going to relate back to Clifford, I think, is probably. the question we should be asking. And so that's an answer that makes a lot of sense.

Yes, it makes a lot of sense. Now, I've got some Fang's theories that I want to read from the last couple of episodes. And maybe these are going to tie in. Lexi says, talking about a couple of episodes ago, Fang performs a concert and apparently it was pretty ginchy. Now, and that he was surrounded by fans asking for autographs. We find out that he was discovered at the show

and the music producer gave him his card. We don't actually see this. Fangs tells Midge about it at school. I predict the music producer is going to tell Fangs he needs to appear single so the fans will think they have a chance of being with him. This will, of course, create conflict between him and Midge.

Oh, no, Midge. Midge is about to get dumped. Oh, my God. I hope Midge isn't getting dumped. Thank you so much, Lexie. Or I also hope that this doesn't happen to Fangs because this comes in from high there, Leah on Twitch. Thank you so much, Leah. Leah says, I think they're going to Buddy Holly fangs.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So for those of you that don't know, Buddy Holly rose to fame quickly with his band The Crickets, but eventually went solo. At the height of his fame when he was touring with Richie Valens and the big bopper, all three of them tragically died in a plane crash near Clear Lake Iowa. Buddy's wife of only a few months was newly pregnant and suffered a miscarriage when she heard the news over the radio. Now the Fang's connection. They seem to be indicating that Fangs is rising to fame quite quickly as a very young man similar to Buddy. They've also connected him with Richie Valens and have mentioned the big bopper on the show. However, there's been no mention of Buddy. Fangs also has a newly-ish pregnant girlfriend. I think they've also mentioned a possible tour for Fangs. Anyway, it feels like they're trying to slot Fangs into a Buddy Holly roll

and then tragically have him die in a plane crash that would break my heart if it happened, but I can't unsee it now. However, maybe that will be part of the whole time jump thing. Who knows? It's Riverdale. That's a great theory too, man. Anything is possible right now. Yes.

Wow. Yes. I just want to say thank you so much. You could send in your own theories to page 7 podcast at gmail.com because we read all the theories. And I try to fit as you can see. I try to fit in as many as seamlessly go into the show as I can because I mean, we got to, we, what is Riverdale if we can't, I know, we need it.

Because again, I don't know what will happen. I have no predict. Riverdale comes into my brain and then it leaves my brain. I need help contextualizing it. And so I'm very grateful for these theories. And why would they do that to, like what? But they're right. There has been no mention of Buddy Holiday.

It's totally a Buddy Holiday plot lines. So why? Why would they do us like that? other than to just emotionally manipulate us. And I also do, last but not least, I just want to have a quick shout out to Carson. I loved your stream of consciousness. And I loved this.

I haven't read Ethel's Wikipedia page, but this is a great snippet from it. At least know that in the comics, Ethel has a pen pal named Hank that could show up and do her bidding. So could Dilton, since they have a paper. been set up together a few times in the comics because they have being unpopular in common. And she's known for crazy plots to get with Juggie. She's the obvious red herring, but I kind of think

that the real misdirect would be to put the big bad front and center. My further Ethel thoughts, if anyone besides Cheryl was a witch this season, I want and think it would be Ethel. It would tie her into the Carrie vibes from early in the season and really give her character a boost we've all been wanting. Unrelated, but maybe relevant before dying. her parents had accused her of bringing men into her room. What's that about? Whoa. Wow.

Yeah. I don't know, Carson. I believe it. I believe it. I mean, there's definitely something going on with Ethel. Like, and I've been wondering, is she going to be the, is it going to be that she's the baddie, you know, which I would be surprised by. But it's definitely possible. And I agree that putting the baddie front and center would be a very Riverdale move.

Oh, it would be very Riverdale. And thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of Riverdale Roundup. Thank you so much, MJ. Thank you so much for everybody for writing in your theories to page 7 podcast at gmail.com. I can't wait to be back next week. And thank you for bearing with us for a late episode because we were on tour and we didn't have time to watch Riverdale. And now we're back babies and ready for Riverdale. We are back.

They're back too. They took last week off. Yes. And we are back. They are all, we are just running. We're all back. all back and we are ready to see what happens next. I cannot wait. Thank you, Jackie. Love you guys. We'll talk to you next week. Bye.

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