Page 7 - Riverdale Roundup Ch. 133 & 134: Stop The Film, That's My Sister!

Episode Date: August 5, 2023

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It's time for more. Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser present. Release the butthole cut tour coming to you in September and October. Where are we heading in September, Jackie? We're going on September 12th. We're going to Nashville. We're going on September 13th to Atlanta, Georgia. And then I'll go back to my hometown, September 14th of Tampa, Florida. In October, October 3rd, we're going to be in Detroit, Michigan.

October 4th. We're going to be in Columbus. And October 5th, we're going to be in Pittsburgh. K-H-7 and Wizard the Bruiser-Bruset, release the butthole cut tour. You can find tickets at lastpodcastnetwork.com, baby. M.J.M.M.J. I will say, on some counts, ask, and Riverdale shall deliver. On other counts, Riverdale just not quite given it to us. Yes, welcome to we are doing a double episode. Thank you guys for being patient with us. We had a lot going on with the Sub-Athon last week.

So we weren't able to do our Riverdale because MJ was busy flying across the country so that we could have a pool party. Oh my God. How fun would it have been if I had like, if we had somehow, like I could have called in on the plane and I could have just talked for an hour with you on the plane and everyone on the plane could have heard me. Talking about Riverdale. Oh, my God. Archie and Reggie got to fuck, you know? Oh, my. That would be nice.

Oh, my God. the tape how quickly I would watch a pawnstit if only we could I was wondering why everyone kept messaging me with very charged emotions about the Riverdale from two weeks ago that is episode 16 season seven episode it was because we got our bi-curious archie episode oh did and I have seem to have been receiving mixed feelings about it Oh, dear. So, yes, this is, this is going to be a toughie because it's going to be the same length as a regular Riverdale roundup, but it is going to be double. We've got to do our Howl episode, which is what we will be calling the one from two weeks ago, the Bicurious Archie episode. We will also be doing, I guess, what we'll call the Sabrina episode, which is the one from this week. And, I mean, before we get into it, Jackie, we're talking about mixed feelings. It sounds like you got some mixed feelings, too.

I've got mixed feelings. And are they mixed feelings about both episodes or were you pro one episode? I was pretty pro the Howell episode. I saw that a lot of people were disappointed that they kind of didn't go far enough with the bioc curiosity. To that, I say, if Riverdale cannot even summon itself to use the word fat to describe why Ethel is marginalized, then I don't really think that Riverdale has the gusto, if you will, to give us a full-on. make out scene between two straight male characters. Otherwise, straight male characters. But maybe I'm setting my bar too low,

and maybe we should hold their feet to the fire and expect more from them. I was waiting for it. Oh, I had baited breath. Oh, I was just like, oh, please, please, please. But they didn't. They did not go as far as I would have preferred. What I really need to say,

overarching of both of these episodes, is like what about the milkman? Like what about the murders? I know. What about like that? I know. I know. I know.

You know, everybody knows. Jackie Zabrowski wants horny Riverdale. And I'm getting it. Yes. I'm getting lots of horniness. Yeah, we got a little bit of horn in both. We got a lot of horn in Howl. We got a bit of horn in Sabrina.

Yes. And you know that's where my heart it lies. Yeah. But what about? All of the things, like, we got so many emails, which you guys were so right, and I'm going to go into one of the, like, best worded of it, of the idea that, like, Hal is either wrapped up in the death of Ethel's parents. Is it because he is possibly Ethel's father? Like, is it possible that he is in with Dr. Worthers? We're going to talk about that in a little bit because, like I said, I've got some, I got many emails about it.

because we weren't seeing it. And you guys are right. We were wrong. I wasn't paying attention because I'm thinking with my loins all the time. And isn't that a problem? Haven't I learned from Riverdale that it's a little bit of an issue when you're only thinking with your loins and I wasn't thinking enough about the plot? So then I was waiting for this. I was like, oh, let's see how this plays out.

Yeah. And then none yeah. And then we got none of it. Yeah. No, we have now had three episodes in a row with 0% Milkman. one of those episodes, Miss Teen Queen Riverdale, had Hal, but zero percent serial killing despite having Hal. Yes.

And then we got two episodes in a row. Great, great levels of horn. Great level. I mean, just to give you a very quick summary of the Howl episode, the boys in the locker room say that they have a, I keep, I'm going to call it a snuff film and that's not what I mean. It's a stag film. It's a stag film. It's a stag film.

They have, they're like, we have a stag film. And so they get, that ends up bringing in Polly, which we will get to. But basically the part that our listeners, I think, need to know is that Reggie and Archie get so horned up. They're so excited about the idea of watching like a little horny film. And then they get cockties about it. And then Julian, the best thing he's done all season, gives them the horny two men wrestling films that Kevin and Clay have been watching.

Because they keep bringing up these wrestling videos that Kevin and Clay like to watch. I think that it's really funny. In my brain, I was like, show me the wrestling videos. And then they did. I want to see the wrestling videos. And then they did. Thank you very much, Riverdale. It was so, yeah.

I thought that they kept, the fact that throughout the episode, they just kept being like, oh, Kevin and Clay in their wrestling videos, I actually thought it was pretty funny. Especially because they've done such a generally good job, like addressing homophobia and like, you know, kind of late in homophobia and stuff throughout the season. I thought it was so funny that they just. keep being like those two boys. And also, they're not out yet. So none of the kids know,

they just keep being like, those two boys really love to watch wrestling films together. And then Archie and Reggie are so disappointed. They didn't get to watch the sexy lady film that Julian is like, all right, I'll give you guys a film to watch. And then Archie and Reggie are alone in a garage together watching what they think will be a sexy lady film. And then it turns out to be the wrestling, two men, oiling each other up and wrestling. And then

instead of stopping and turning it off, they're like, well, let's watch it. And then they watch it. And they get by horny together. And then they lie in bed at night. And Archie tells Reggie about how he read Howell. And he's learning about the beats. And he's learning that you could be a man's man who likes to have a girlfriend and a wife and also still likes to experiment with men.

And they're just lying in bed talking about it. And it was so satisfying. It was everything I wanted, except for, of course, I did then want the fantasy. I wanted, even if it didn't happen in real life. I needed a fantasy. fantasy. I wanted the fantasy. But again, the fantasies have been letting us down. Not the Betty fantasies. Betty gets to, you know, fuck about town in her fantasies. But Ethel didn't even get to kiss Jughead in her fantasies. And we did not get a Reggie and Archie make out her sex scene

in the fantasy fantasies. But the dialogue about the queer curiosity inspired by Alan Ginsberg's Howell was it was absolutely everything that I hoped for. I was so, I was mouth agape, just like, yes. Yes. I can't believe this is happening. And it's kind of perfect because Howell kind of is, like, for me, like was, before Howell, I didn't, like, I had, it was kind of my introduction to, like, queer masculinity to be, because I just didn't, I wasn't consuming explicitly queer, like, culture.

And Howell was like, oh, my God, this, this man is talking in a really sexy way about kissing other men. Yes. And, you know, it was like such a third. to find as a teenager, which is exactly what happens to Archie. It made me want to read it again. I was like, what am I doing with my life? I should read Al again.

Do you want to be 37 and read Howl? Because I think I do. I think I do. But then like as much as, again, you know I love this. It wasn't, it didn't really forward the plot. And like we've also been dealing with like a lot of. sexuality and how they're dealing with this. And we've done that already, I feel like.

We've done it, but we've never done straight boy by curiosity. Yes, you're right. In seven seasons, right? There has never been, to the extent that there's been some other, like, you know, usually straight girl by curiosity, we've been dabbling in that. And obviously we get, we have had queer relationships for both boys and girls throughout the seasons.

But I do think that there is a critical lack of representation about the spectrum of sexuality for a straight-identified men. And I love to see some like, yeah, even straight-identified men might be a little curious about kissing boys sometimes. And I actually did think that it was awesome. I get the people who are frustrated that it didn't go far enough. But, again, for a CW show to have two characters who have been otherwise. straight as an arrow for seven seasons to have them lying in bed together where it's clearly suggested that they like

both have boners and they're thinking about making out with each other. Oh my God, I just need I want it. It's so bad. And then the only thing that stops them, they both like bolt out of bed because they're both so horny talking to each other. And literally they're lying in bed and Archie is like,

yeah, Reggie, there's these guys called the beats and they got wives, but they like experiment with each other with the other men, even though they're mansmen just to kind of see how it feels. And then they both bolt up in bed and they're both like, I got to take a shower. I got to take a shower.

I got to take a cold shower. And it was so cute, though. I still, like, I enjoyed it. And it didn't come with any of the stuff, to the extent to which we ever see any, like, you know, by curiosity in straight men in media. It's then always accompanied by like a homophobic backlash or something, like an overcorrection. And like, oh, no, we got to pretend that that never, ever happened. And we didn't really get that.

It was just kind of, they were just kind of like, all right. We kind of do get that at the end of the next episode, not to jump episodes. Okay, let's do it. Fucking Uncle Daddy. I was so upset by how the second episode ended. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about that. Why was he so pissed off?

He wrote an ode to his dead father. Why was Uncle Daddy? Not to like completely jump ahead. It doesn't jump head that far in the term of like the plot of what happened with Archie. Because essentially this, so that first episode started with Archie thinking about his sexuality and thinking about like exploring and living more so that he could write poetry. And then in the second episode that we watched, he starts writing poetry. And oh my God.

So much happened at this episode. He performs. I'm just going to talk. I'm just going to talk about at least Archie's plot. Let's talk about it. Yeah, because it's rough. But Mrs. Grundy is there. This is crucial.

And oh, man, did I? I was like, are we going back in time? No. Like, don't do this Riverdale. Right some wrong. Yes. That's what's happening in this episode. Riverdale is like, whoopsie.

Everyone remember when we had a teacher, fuck a student. Whoops. We shouldn't have done that. So now we're going to like remind you of that in a really hamfisted way. But instead of doing it again, in 1955, teacher and student doesn't fuck. In 1955, teacher recognizes student has a crush on her and sets some boundaries and says, I'm not going to have sex with you. And I guess good job Riverdale correcting the wrongs of the past.

Because Archie reads the cringiest poem that he wrote in front of everybody where he's essentially like, Mrs. Grundy, I want to fuck you. And he takes a big bite out of this red delicious apple. And the reason why he bites a red delicious apple is because what we didn't talk about in also in this same plot line is that throughout their by curiosity, they get so horny. Reggie and Archie gets so horny that they end up going. to visit Twyla Twist, the town sex worker. And they, so I don't want to, maybe we shouldn't get into details because technically the characters are teenagers, even though we all know that they are in their late 20s and

they were in their late 20s up until last season. Right. I don't know if they both had sex with Twyla Twist or do you think she just sucked them both off one after the other? I think that they leave it purposely ambiguous. Yes. I do think that we are meant to believe that whatever happened with Twyla. They go all the way.

I don't know if they, I mean, I think that they go all the way in the sense that I think Archie and Reggie probably had a sexual experience that they hadn't had before. Yes. That led to completion of some kind. And I think that we are strongly meant to believe that they went through it together, meaning like both of them in the same room, which doesn't have to be gay, but could have been a little gay. You know what I mean?

Well, what happens in my mind can say in my mind. I'm not sharing. But he goes back to Twyla because obviously he feels this sense of connection because it seems like he had his first sexual experience with her. Right. So he has a sense of connection to Twyla. So Archie goes back to her with like flowers and which I don't understand. Twyla is like, sorry, honey, ain't happening again. Which like, why can't it happen again?

If he's a client, what does it matter? Weird boundary to set. She's like, I'm happy to give everybody their first ride, but I don't do ongoing things or whatever, which like, you know, all right. But thus sending him into the terms of Miss Grundy, the predator, Ms. Grundy. Yes, because Twyla calls him, she's like, you might want to find another older woman to bite into that red delicious. But she calls him a red delicious. And I was like, whoa! Which is why when Archie is.

reading this poem, he takes a bite out of a red delicious apple that's supposed to be in a sexy way. But it was so vulnerable. And Mrs. Grundy is there watching and she just like gets up and leaves. Which go for ha. Set those boundaries. Thank you, Miss Grundy, for setting boundaries. It only took you seven years to come back and do some justice to what you did to Archie in season one. And so she wants to like get him off the scent. She's like essentially like, okay, I appreciate you writing about teenage heartbreak saying that because she's like, I ain't never going to like you, dude. Yeah.

But why don't you write about your deepest pain? And what, of course, is Archie's deepest pain? It is his dead father. So he writes a poem where he puts all of his pain into this poem. And then in the end of the episode, which, this has been like two episodes of like a lot of horny, a lot of other things happening. And then Uncle Daddy, shitbag that he is, finds the poem. And also with tears and. his eyes is just like, yeah, no, a man can't write down his feelings like this.

This isn't what a man does. And I was just like, can we be done with this character? Can we just get rid of Uncle Daddy, please? I know. I almost, honestly, I have this, like, weird burning desire to, like, ask a boomer man about this scene. Because, like, maybe it, I felt like it wasn't. consistent, like, I felt like it wasn't, it didn't feel very emotionally honest to me that

Uncle Daddy is, you know, Luke Perry's brother. And so Archie writes a poem about Luke Perry and Uncle Daddy's like, how dare you? And it felt really like weirdly jar. It just didn't feel justified. But I mean, definitely, and especially in bringing back the whole like beats, like, you know, kind of rebellious queer masculinity thing. Like, maybe there is something to the idea that Uncle Daddy is just like such a traditional masculine guy that he's like so upset and offended by the idea that Archie likes poetry. But he already knew that he liked poetry. And we've had this fight before.

He's been like choose basketball over poetry or whatever. But like it didn't, it just didn't feel, it felt jarring to me to be like he's going to scream at Archie for writing this poem about his father. But again, I think that we, my guess is that that's kind of meant to, after showing us these two episodes where Archie, it's not like Archie's struggling with his masculinity, but he is exploring different ways to be masculine, right? He's exploring his sexuality. He's wondering, wow, can I still be like a man's man and like one of kiss boys? And along with that, I think he's like, I want to be a man's man, but also I like, I like poetry. And so I guess that that scene with

Uncle Daddy at the end is supposed to be this like, in the 1950s, there was no, it was so rebellious to be. And that was true about the beats. right, that there was so, it was so rebellious to be like, I'm a man who likes to talk about feelings. Like, it was like revolutionary. Right. And so I guess that's what that scene was. But it was really upsetting and really jarring. And I just don't care about Uncle Daddy.

So it's like, I don't even, it almost would have been made more sense for somebody like Clifford Blossom to represent that. Because at least Clifford Blossom is like a character with like roots and an ideology and a motivation and whatever. Uncle Daddy just has no place here. He doesn't belong here. It's just so too. D. It's like, okay, we get it. Yes, he's just a bad man. Like, part of me, like,

I'm sure I'm looking far too into this. It was like he had the tears in his eyes and I was like, but does a man's man to him cry? And is it because like he was crying and getting into his feelings? And that's why he got so angry about it. And like that's where came out. I think he was triggered. Yes.

Totally. He's a mass, he's a man's man in the prison of masculinity that was the 1950s. Yes. He reads this. this poem about his dead brother, Luke Perry, RIP, and then he flips out about it because patriarchy didn't leave men with any space to feel their feelings, and so they lash out with violence. I think that's the point the Riverdale is trying to make, right? Yes, I think so

too. I think that that's what, and so that's what's going on with Archie. That's what's going with Archie. I love Archie exploring his sexuality. I think that this is great. I love them talking about the beats. I think that that's really great. I, but we haven't even talked about. in this yet is Polly Amorous. Oh my God, Polly Amorous, which is, okay, who comes back, but Polly Cooper, Betty's older sister, and turns out the reason why she hasn't been around isn't because she's on Broadway. It is because she is a burlesque dancer that goes by the name of Polly Amorous, which, great name. Yeah. I like Pollyamorous a lot. I was glad to have Polly back. The setup of it is very

like, even though there was not enough, there was zero milk band, zero serial killer, it was kind of like spooky. Like they had everybody gather in the Babylonium to the Babylon, whatever, there's too many things. Babylonium. Babylonium, thank you. That Veronica is like, okay,

you guys want to watch your stag film? Watch it at my movie theater. And so all the boys are all there. Going to do a big circle jerk together. All I could think about I was like, man, you all are going to just sit there and jerk off in this movie theater together, which I mean, again, there are jerk off movie theaters. I'm not saying, like, you know, I understand that. But like, you're all just going to be like, who, who, who, which I guess, you know, sounds like a lot of fun. I know. And I guess that that must have, I guess, again, talk about, you know, exploring your sexuality. I guess a lot of teenage boys, especially back then, must have experienced, like, straight porn together or like with their dicks out and they'll. Like, oh, are we all having fun here?

I think it's an experience that a lot of, like, I don't know if it's necessarily a gendered experience, but I feel like I know a lot more men that used to, like, at that age, watched porn with other, like, with, like, with their bros. And, like, they would just, like, have it on in the background kind of thing, which was not something that, like, I mean, I did when I was by myself, I'd watch a lot of Skinimax, even if I would just have it on in my room because I could. Right. Yeah, the idea of doing it with a group of other people, like not even in a theater in your own little seat doing it alone, but like collectively, they're watching it like they're about to watch American Pie or something. You know, they're having a great time. Oh, yeah. They're having a blast. They're all there. They're super excited. But then, and then it's like, you know, in the style of an old film, it's black and white and the two actors come in and it's a wedding night. And the woman, like, appears on the screen and is like starting to take and starting to take.

off her clothes and then she looks at the camera and like Betty stands up and screams, stop the film, that's my sister. And it did give me the spooks. It was like, I know, man. It was sad. Especially as we've been asking this whole season, where's Polly? And so it actually stopped the film. That's my sister. Oh my God. Yeah. I was so happy that they stopped it. Like I would have flipped out. And can I say, thank God it did not turn out to be. I think the reason it's scary is because we've seen a million other TV shows and movies and stuff about like, oh my God, I was watching a porn and theirs by sister or whatever. And it turns out to be some sort of like human trafficking ring or something. And obviously Riverdale is not above that.

We've had lots of various kidnapping plots. We've had serial killer plots and sex worker missing people plots and all of that. So I thought it was going to be like a Polly's been sex trafficked into this snag, uh, stag film industry. And man, you really want to say snub. I really, I really, I really, say stuff film so badly. Why? Why does my brain want to say stuff? Is this like a big thing in your life? Do we need to talk about this, MJ?

I think I've heard the phrase snuff film 10 times for every one time I've heard the phrase stag film. Yeah, I get that. You know? I've heard stag party. Yeah. Stag film is, anyway, I'm so glad that it wasn't Polly, you know, trafficked against her will into the porn industry. Instead, it is Polly who was like. Like, yeah, I did that one for like when I was just getting started and I kind of wish I hadn't.

But then I became a successful burlesque dancer. And so I was just really happy to like not have another sad Polly plot. This is like an empowered Polly plot. And she deserves that. I'm happy for her. Yeah. I'm very happy for her. Yeah.

In the same way we were going to talk about Josie in a minute. I'm like, up her. You know, they finally get like positive plot lines. Yes. So Polly always ends up getting murdered or sold or. or sent to the sisters of quiet mercy. She's always an object, you know. Yes.

So I'm proud of her that she's a star now. Yes. And she's getting married and she wants Betty to be her maid of honor and that's beautiful. And like there's a lot of strain because Alice Cooper does know that Polly is a burlesque dancer and is like turned her back on her. And was it this? it was this episode where Betty is like really pushing and really upset

because like Alice pushed Polly out of the family and she was confronting her about it and she's ramping it up and she's ramping it up and then Alice man slaps her in the face and that was such a good like they're both such great actresses

that that moment I was like damn like I was so into it that scene. I know. They are both really good actresses. Whoa, that scene. I got upset. I was like, oh my God.

I did too. And it was such a good, it really was a good mother-daughter seat. As much as so much of the Alice and Betty stuff this season also hasn't felt super earned. Like I keep being like, why is Alice such an awful mom? Like obviously Alice has always struggled in the past. But usually there's been a kind of like root love between them. And this season there's just not. And they do expand on that a little bit in this episode because Polly explains like, you know, there's Polly and Betty.

We get to see Polly and Betty discussing their parents together, which is really nice because you get to see a little bit more like what's going on with this family dynamic. But that scene between the two of them felt like a really like honest mother daughter. Like she, the mother was just so fucking angry at her. And it was just, it was good. It was sometimes, it's so weird to have a CW show that is like, 95% just a CW show. And then there's these moments where you're just like, that hit. Yeah, it hit really well.

It really did. And that scene completely, like I, man, and Lily Reinhart in this episode, too, just shown. Because so essentially what ends up happening is that like for empowerment, Veronica has heard of polyamorous, of course, before. So she asks her to perform at the Babylonium just for the girls of Riverdale. And Polly does, but while Polly is, oh my God, that gypsy montage was my everything. Because I loved it, loved it of just like, I, uh, sorry, I'm getting too excited about it and I wanted to say too many things at once. So essentially, Polly is performing, but while Polly is performing, Lily Reinhart also sees herself performing on the stage. And it keeps going back and forth between them as they're performing a song from Gypsy.

But then they like intercut with the like Alice doing the like, Mama's got a go. Mom has got. And I'm just like, yes. Yeah. Yes, Gypsy. That was a really good. We got a lot of musical numbers in this most recent episode. We got two Josies.

And then, oh yeah, I guess the one you're describing was from the previous episode. Yeah, we got a lot of good musical numbers. That musical number with Polly, Alice and Betty was really, really good. And then, yeah, we got two. really good josie numbers in the most recent episode. But I did write from this episode, I have stopped caring about the comic code. What about the milkman? Okay.

Just real quick, real quick sidebar. Yeah. Jeff was like, Jackie, the milkman was murdered. And I was like, it can't end there. Like, did it? Yeah, we never learned who killed Ethel's parents. Yeah. Like, is it just over?

Or is it just, yeah. It was the milkman that did it. And now the milkman's dead. And does that mean it's done? Because like why is my head like I can't let it go? Yeah, right. I guess, oh, it's Jeff, right? It's just like Ethel killed him and that mystery is now done.

That's stupid. I'd be, I'm going to be mad. But then you think about this, y'all, like, there's only like three or four more episodes. I know. So I don't know. They're not going to, they're, there. Listen, if anybody out there on the Riverdale team is listening, we're very happy with this season.

I also don't believe that they are going to even remotely be able to tie up the amount of threads that they have lain in this season alone, much less the previous seven seasons. And that's okay. There's no, there's too many threads for the previous seasons to wrap up. Sure. So I think what's happening with the comic code stuff. And Jackie, you slash the listeners who wrote in predicted this a few episodes ago, is that, and honestly, it's so before our eyes that I kind of can't believe that we didn't know this

was coming from the beginning, right? what happens in the episode from this week. The Comics Code is preventing PEP Comics from being able to do any of their normal horror stuff. We get kind of a fun scene between Wothers and Featherhead and Jughead and the boss from PEP Comics being like, well, what are we allowed to say? This is censorship, free speech, et cetera. And it's kind of fun knowing that that was like a real, you know, it's based on the real history of the comics code. But so what they set up is Jughead has to develop a story that's going to save PEP Comics, like a, you know, a serial that he can do for PEP Comics that meets the restrictions of the comics code, right?

And he develops Veronica, the teenage witch, to which the feedback is. Veronica is too sexy a name. But also, real pause, the reason why he comes up with Veronica, the teenage witch, is because they brought back the, Veronica and Jughead out of nowhere. I know. Where did that come from? I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Are we that quickly moving away from?

I haven't forgotten Veronica and Betty. And I'm not saying that like, oh, she can't be kissing more than one person. It's not like she can kiss whoever she wants. But I thought that they were doing the whole like Aero thing with Jughead. And then they brought it back. and I was like, oh, I know. You just don't like Ethel. I know.

Ethel's getting fucked. I know that he doesn't have a thing for Ethel. But as someone that has serially fallen in love with best friends, it hurts my heart. I know. I know. It hurts mine too. As much as I was rooting for Veronica and Jughead together earlier in this season, but then it ended and it felt weird for it to come back.

Yes. Yeah. So that's what, that's what Veronica is kind of his muse for this Sabrina to the Teenage Witch. Although when she said, when she said, Jughead Jones, do you like sexy teen witches? I looked at Jeff and I went,

Jeffrey Adams, do you like sexy adult witches? And he's like, stop. He's like, this is Jackie. We're watching Riverdale. This is not the time. But what are we, what are we,

what road are we being taken down? Jughead, he developed Sabrina the teenage witch. They tell him, this is still too scary. She's a witch. What is he going to do? to do, Jackie, he's going to write Riverdale.

Yeah. He's going to write Riverdale. And that's going to be the end. There's going to be no pickup of any of the previous threads. There's going to be no milkman. It's going to be no hell. It's going to be none of that. He's workshopping Sabrina this episode so that he can get rejected from it and come

back with him writing Riverdale. Oh my God. And that's going to save Pep Comics. And it will all be a fucking comic book the whole time. Oh, my God. That's what's happening. Why didn't I see it? Why didn't I see that?

It was right in front of us the whole time. We didn't see it. And now I'm like, of course, of course, he's going to write Riverdale. Right? Jackie's so upset. Which like, if that was part of it and then like, and then they, and then the, Haley's comet comes back. That's the thing.

If he's writing Riverdale. Sorry, Bailey's comet, please. Where's T, and he's with Veronica, where's Tabitha? Is Tabitha going to come back? Is the Guardian. of Riverdale is still there? Are we just going to leave that one and never see it again? Honestly, I wouldn't put it past them. I would not see it again. I would not come back to any of it. Or they'll do, they'll do a real clunky like, oh, I write Riverdale and then Tabith is going to come back and be like, good news. You're all saved. And then it's going to just show us the cover of that all drawn as the Archie Comics. And that will be the end. So you don't think there's going to be anything about like Hal being Ethel's dad. I do not think that. I think that that is, I think that our Riverdale. Roundup community is writing a lot of Riverdale fan fiction in their heads. And I'm not saying

that it's ungrounded. I love, I prefer our fan fiction. I'm going to say it. I'd rather it. It's like we're on our own writing workshop. You know, it's like what Riverdale Roundup really is, especially the amount of emails we have gotten this season, is like what, what Riverdale Roundup with this show is, is us exploring the different literary and narrative devices and themes that could happen in Riverdale. And I think I'm just now accepting that we are not actually the writers of Riverdale. The writers of Riverdale are doing their own thing. And what we're doing here is thinking about all the things that could happen. Yes, it would be awesome of Hal was Ethel's dad. I would be very surprised if we end up getting any closure on Ethel or Hal or the Milkman at this

point. We just, I just, but you know I'm right, right, right. He's got to write Riverdale. You're right. Yeah. I don't know what else will come back. I might be wrong. And listen, I've never made a correct prediction in the world of Riverdale Roundup in seven years. I think that this might be the first time that you knocked it out of the paper. Not the first time in life, but just in the idea of Riverdale theories. Yeah, you know me, I'm usually living in the moment. I don't strategize. I don't know what's coming next.

No. But as soon as I saw that, Sabrina, as soon as he was like, oh, it'll be called Sabrina the Teenage Witch. I was like, oh, you bastards. Sabrina got turned down because it's too spooky. You know what's not? And this is actually kind of cool. This is based in reality as we got that email from the list. who said the reason why we have Archie Comics in the first place is because of the

Comics Code because it didn't violate the Comics Code. Why didn't we realize it? It was right for your eyes, Jackie. It's so dumb. I feel so mad. Of course we're going to be used. You know, we in real life, we got Archie because it was a non-offensive comic that you know, adhere to the Comics Code.

And so what can happen now as the Comics Code is coming into the world of Riverdale and shutting everything down? We will get Archie. We will get the Archie comics. They will be written by Jughead. And I don't know, listen, I don't know if that means that it's all been a comic book the whole time. Or what I don't know? I still don't even know how to game out if he creates Archie comics.

What does that mean? It has to be a comic book the whole time. It must be. And all of these stories have been different stories that he's been writing this whole time. Yes. I think every season is a different issue of the, is a different, yeah. Of the comic book. Fuck.

Fuck. I mean, congratulations, MJ. Thank you. Do you feel, like, the fact that you watched this at 4.30 in the morning and you came up, I'm very impressed with your theory. I'm very impressed with how you got there. And it's not unsatisfying, actually. No, it's not. I think it actually is pretty satisfying.

It's kind of cool that they set up this whole comic book code thing for the whole season. And historically, actually, that was what got us Archie Comics. And like that is now what's going to get us Riverdale retroactively or whatever. I actually do think it's like pretty good. If you're going to try to wrap up seven seasons of chaos, this is a pretty good way to do it. It's just we have to excise. I think we should prepare ourselves emotionally for how few things will come full circle. I don't know what's going to prepare me emotionally for the end of Riverdale.

I know. I'm really upset. I'm like there keeps being on the CW. you know, when you watch it on the CW, there's this ad that's like, only a few episodes left of Riverdale. And it's Archie's voice being like, this is our last dance together. And I just keep thinking of all the actual videos that the actual cast got posting about how sad they were that it ended. And I do have a lot of feelings about it. I have a lot of feelings.

I did also have a lot of feelings about having a whole episode while I was very excited for Polly's return. Don't get me wrong. I like Josie. but like I just wanted so much other plot to happen. That was like, by the second episode of it that I was like, I don't want a whole episode about Josie that like isn't even in this season. And like she was really trying to talk like this as best she could.

But it is a difficult, the transatlantic accent is a difficult one to stay in. if you are not used to it, I imagine. And the whole episode was like, but what about everything else? And so I got really frustrated during the second episode. And maybe it's because I watched them back to back that I was like, Josie, girl, you look great,

songs you're killing it. Yeah. Love fangs on the bongos. Yeah. Love that you're famous. Love that this is a great plot line for you. Yep. I just couldn't give a shit.

Yeah. I also kind of, I felt like it was kind of, Not about like her in the Black Athena Club. I think all that stuff was really cool. I think we could have included all that. I meant by the time got to like the second musical number that I was like, okay. Yeah. Like I think include the important stuff that Josie was there to talk about, like for sure.

But we didn't need more. I agree with that. I felt kind of like Roberto Agueres-Cicasa. Maybe I just because I saw him have a post, he posted a very cute picture of her and Veronica, like the day that they like landed in the airport to begin filming. Riverdale next to like the picture of the two of them together on like the last day of filming. And so he was like, is this full circle moment. And that's very sweet. And I think that he just I think that they just wanted to have Josie back because like she was an important character throughout the series and like had the, it was this nice full circle moment. And it was nice

having that the amount of time they've spent this season talking about like the experience of being black in the 1950s in Riverdale and bringing in this like black star to, to come in and talk to the Black Athena Club. That all was nice. But I agree with you that it felt like, well, wait, now we're going to do like a whole Josie episode with, again, no other plot, really? Like, that was a little bit. It just kind of felt like they wanted to take like a little like family reunion tour, which is fine.

Which is fine. But I want more plot. I'm just, I need more of the spooky. Yeah, more spoo. Like, I need more mystery there. Like, I feel like they, and maybe we're not going to get any more of it. Yeah. Are we done?

I hadn't even considered that we might be done with spook since the milkman is dead. That is deeply unsatisfying. Are we done with spook? Are we just done with spook for the season? I don't know. And I mean, definitely upping the horny because what we didn't talk about from the last episode into this episode are those sexy pictures that Cheryl and Titi took together, which Mama me.

That was fun. Whoa. I loved that. Hotchimachi. There is a, okay. There is a lesbian. magazine called Fem and In, which I really enjoy. I like the name of.

Fem and In that Cheryl and Titi are just blatantly reading. Again, I love how not closeted these queer characters are, but also I'm like, girl, you've got to be careful with that lesbian smut magazine. They shoot the whole, they do the whole sexy photo shoot in the chapel. And the chapel at Thornhill. At Thornton Hill. Awesome. She says, Cheryl says, my unholy family never uses it.

I love that. It was very, and then they took a bunch of really sexy pictures. And then Cheryl is like, I'll turn them into an oil painting in the style of a pulp novel cover, which she does. And then Penelope slashes it. She finds it. Well, she also, she just like, can't just leave those things lying around Cheryl. She also didn't really try to hide it. That's true.

That's true. And of course Penelope sabotages it. And then the next episode, right, is when, or is it the same? Yeah, the next episode, Betty is like, I'm still doing this little... The teen mystique. Seven and Teen Mystique thing. And I want to write a book. Which if you remember, she's writing a...

Now she's writing a book, because she was doing like a whole, like, doing an anonymous help for the teens of Riverdale, talking about love and life. And everyone was writing into her. So now she's writing a book. So she wanted a sexy cover for her book. So they took... She and her cousin. by the way, take this really sexy photo shoot together,

which was like, I don't know, I don't have that relationship with any of my cousins. I don't know if you do. Do they know their cousins in this timeline? I don't know. Because season one, like, never happened. Yeah, I guess. So maybe they, maybe they don't know that they're cousins.

Maybe they don't know. Because I like that they have this like little alliance kind of thing where like essentially, you know, Cheryl's like, I'm going steady with Titi. And then Betty's like, well, I'm the teen Misty. And so they have it, which was really cute. It was really cute. But then Betty takes these photos, which again, hotchi, muchy, good, gravy.

Another very hot photos. It another very satisfying part of this episode is Betty being like, I don't know, Cheryl. I'm kind of talking out of my ass because I'm like answering all these questions about like sexuality, but I've never had a sexual experience myself, which is this is a, you know, an interesting contrast. Archie hasn't had a sexual experience. And so he goes to a very adult sex worker as a minor. And that's how he gets his sexual experience. Which also just real quick, a shout out to Vivian that was talking about was like, Riverdale is obsessed with pedophiles, I guess.

Is Grunty and Twy? Am I wrong in assuming that she is a sex worker who doesn't do repeat customers, which means she just has sex with underage boys so they can lose their virginity? Way to begin and end the series with Archie being the victim of pedophilia. Looks like Mrs. Grundy is mortified this. time at least. Thank you, Vivian. Yeah, that is a very well observed. Poor Archie, man. Poor 27-year-old KJ. But so Betty is also like, well, I haven't had a sexual experience. Like what like authority do I even have to talk about sex stuff? And Cheryl's like, Betty, you know that you don't

need a partner to have a sexual experience, right? And Betty's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And what does Cheryl say? She's like, all you need is a bathtub. and then she just like slowly holds up her hand. Yes, and like, and the hand. And so there is this great, I thought, man, if I loved the gypsy montage, did I love the, like, Betty in the Bath, learning how to masturbate while Fangs is playing great balls of fire because he's trying to impress Josie. And then like Cheryl, like, aggressively painting Betty for, because like she was

making an oil painting from her sexy photos. They do a great montage. And I was just like, this montage is everything. I love a Riverdale musical montage where like, ideally fangs is singing and then some other related thematic thing is being cut to. They really did a great job with it. Great job. Really great job with it.

And so Betty, then now, what I love, the next time we see Betty, she's like, different now because she's made a come. Like she's like, you can see. She's like, yes, I understand. stand now, which Govaha. Guvaha. I say gufah.

Yeah, it's a big guffaha. Yeah, interesting that they each, that Archie and Betty each needed to, like, have their first sexual experience in such different ways. Yes, very different ways. Well, and Betty even brings it up that, like, isn't it so interesting that I was so shamed by my strip tease for Archie, but everybody's high-fiving Archie because he went to Twil-Lah. And, like, oh, isn't interesting the dichotomy here?

Yep, absolutely. Which, thanks so much. No. I'm still reeling about the bomb that you drop. The fact that, yes, of course, I feel so stupid. MJ, I feel so dumb. Yes, of course that's what's going to happen. Have you tried waking up at 4 in the morning to watch Riverdale?

It's apparently what my mind is sharpest. It was difficult enough at 6.30 in the morning. I don't know if I guess I guess that's when it really becomes clear. Four of the morning. All right. We all should be watching Riverdale, 4 in the morning to get a little bit of clarity in there. Yeah. I mean, we have so many great emails.

I know we're just about out of time. And we're not done yet. There's more to come. But it does feel like we're, I feel like it's been a long way from where we began. Where we began. Oh, my God. We're never going to see them again. I just want to give a shout out to Jane.

Jane wrote in who also was gasping about the whole gypsy montage that happened because they recently saw their very first three Broadway shows and so they were so like so been so into musicals and then like that whole so I just want to give you a shout out Jane I loved your your thoughts on it and I was right there with you yeah um now I know that I said that I did want to read this just because like Courtney you wrote out a great which like convinced me which made me want to hear more about the house storyline Courtney says um I totally this is from a couple episodes ago, I had a totally different read on the Alice choosing Ethel to win situation. I think the whole thing was about Hal and Alice.

This whole season, the audience has gotten the impression that Alice has sacrificed a lot for Hal, but there haven't been any details given. This is the first episode where we get information about how Alice wanted to be a stewardess, and it's clear that Alice is starting to feel animosity towards Hal. I think Hal, along with the cabal of Principal Featherhead, Dr. Worther's and Clifford Blossom, is to blame for Ethel's parents' death. I think Alice knows that, which is why she was quick to take Ethel in and ship her off to the sisters of quiet mercy. I think in this episode, the main reason why Alice didn't want Ethel in didn't want Ethel to compete was not because she was fat,

but because she didn't want Ethel's story gaining national attention since the pageant was televised. More attention on the Mugs' murders means it would more likely that someone would uncover Hal's secrets, thereby ruining the family that Alice has been working hard to protect. This theory is also bolstered by the fact that Hal tells Alice that they both know Ethel won't win because of who the judges are. The rest of the cabal responsible for the murders and the exact people who wouldn't risk putting Ethel in the spotlight. I think the whole fight between Alice and Howe was about Hal underestimating the dangers of Ethel being on TV and Alice feeling like he is taking unnecessary risks. Yeah. It goes on.

But I just want to say, Courtney, thank you. you so much you're so right. Yep. Yeah. And like, again, that makes sense. Yes. And waiting for, like, I know that I didn't learn this from Riverdale. I learned this from you, Courtney, and from others that wrote in.

But, like, then I was waiting for Riverdale to deliver on it and I got none. And I think that that is why I was so frustrated in these episodes, even though it's not Riverdale's fault. They aren't the ones that are telling me to expect these things. I'm creating false expectations for myself. Yeah. But that's something I have to deal with about in therapy. Yeah. The inbox is full of fantastic Hal and Ethel, sometimes together, sometimes separately, theories. And listen, I'm not saying that this being a writer's workshop here is a bad thing. I think it's a very good thing. I love all these ideas. Maybe they will play out. There was definitely something going on. But I think one of the magic things of Riverdale is it allows us, it's like a little writing prompt. It gives us a little idea. Like, what would I do with this storyline? And will Riverdale do it? I don't know. It does get us thinking.

You know, everybody get your pens and papers out. Write down your ideas. Let's write some mysteries or whatever. Yeah. Everybody's got some really great ideas about what could happen here. And I don't know if any of those ideas are going to happen. I don't know. Man, you just dashed a lot of my dreams.

I'm not trying to dash anything. And it's not your fault. Like I know you're right. I just had all these big dream balloons and I just feel like they've all popped. I mean, I might, I might be, I, there are got to be some sort of. killer. You can't be wrong. There's literally, I don't think there's any way that you can be wrong. It's so, you're so right. I mean that, yeah, I think I might be right. But what do you guys think about Riverdale? What do you think it's going to go? Keep it coming. Page 7 podcast at g-mell. Thank you

guys so much for joining us on this double episode of Riverdale Roundup. We had lots to say. We were all over the place. But you know what? It's just comic books. Riverdale. It's just comic books. It's Riverdale, Jughead. We'll be back next week and we'll be back through. I think it ends at the end of this month. So we'll see how it goes. And I think we're going to have to wait until after our break. So we'll find out about that because we can't pre-record the Riverdale roundups.

So we'll have to figure that out. I know. There's two weeks in August where LPN is on break. We won't have an editor. So we might need to come back after the fact. We will try to keep you abreast of the Riverdale schedule on Instagram. So if you are not on Instagram, you could also go to the page seven group and ask when the Riverdale's will be coming out. They will be coming out. Don't, don't worry. They will be coming out as soon as we possibly can. Yes. Don't worry. We're not giving up. No, definitely be back next week. No question. No, at the end. And we'll be back next week. We love you guys so much. Have a great. Love you. Bye. Bye.

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