Page 7 - Riverdale Roundup Ch. 97 & 98: The Outback Steakhouse of CW Shows

Episode Date: December 4, 2021

Wow.Support us on our Patreon page and get weekly bonus Patreon-exclusive content! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast Intro song by Green Dreams. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A roast as dark as the night. Perfect for fueling the crypted research and mad ravings required for your podcasting. Don't mind the red eyes. He's just trying to warn you of the bridge. The bridge! Finally, from the caffeine-addled brains of Springheel Jack Coffee and Last Podcast on the left, re-bring you, Mothman's Red Eye Blend. Yes, delicious Panama beans.

Go to lastpodcastmerch.com to order yours today. I'm disturbed. I'm upset. I'm scared. I'm disturbed. I'm a little sad. I'm very scared. Wow.

It's, I just, I have so much to say. And I don't know where to begin. So, all right, welcome back to River Vale round up. Thank you, everybody. I was just yelling because my Chrome browser keeps being like, You keep writing River Vale, but you must mean Riverdale. And no, I fucking don't Chrome Browser. I mean River Vale.

It's a new world Chrome browser. Get with it. And honestly, it's a better world. It's a better show. I think it is a better show. I think it 100% is a better show. Yes, we are talking about River Vale season six episodes two and three today. Because we missed out on last week.

It is, there are five episodes in this arc. And yes, back to, we are still in this Twilight Zone-esque world, where in both episodes, Jughead is the host of it. I am so curious as to see what is going to come out of this last time when we were talking about Roberto Aguirre Sicasa discussing this five-episode arc. And he did say that echoes of what happened during this will remain in Riverdale when we go back to Riverdale after this five episode. Also, what remains from episode to episode, right? Because, like, Archie wasn't in either of these ones.

No, no, he wasn't. And Tony wasn't in the last one. So let's start in the beginning of the second episode. So there are vignettes in all of these. So we're going to kind of just break it down. The problem is that I'm not yelling about it as much as I actually was genuinely creeped out. Yeah, it's very different to engage with like a high quality text,

you know, as compared to what we've been doing for. Like, Riverdale Roundup, the reason we started Riverdale Roundup was because season one of Riverdale was so good that you and me and Marcus wanted to talk about it so much that we made time in every episode of page seven to talk about it. And we like enjoyed talking about it so much that it became its own thing. And then it became its own thing

and then Riverdale became its own thing. And kept talking about Riverdale, but it just kept not be, it was no longer a high quality show. And in fact, it just became, it just kind of spun out of control. And now we have this show where we are now years in,

used to, screaming about like the baffling choices that the show is making. And now we have three episodes, even though I was very disturbed by, episode two. But like it was still good. Like three episodes in season six, River Vale, that are like very good. Like they're very good shows. I think that they finally hit what they should have hit

and dug into years ago, which is allowing supernatural to just be like openly say like, yes, Rivervale is an alternate universe where all the supernatural things that you think that we are inkling towards, it's all real, it all can come true. Yes. La Yarona is real. There are high school counselors killing children. And you had the captain howdy like experience from the exorcist of like the little face that kept showing up in episode three with the devil. There was a lot.

We got to start. I'm sorry, now we got to start at the beginning. Yeah. Because I'm thinking about La Yerona and Tony up top, episode two, there is a West Side Story-esque fight between the goolies and the serpents, and Tony straight up knif's a young boy to death, which, again, she is not only one of the oligarchy leaders of this town, she is a gang leader as well as the high school counselor at Riverdale High. Yes, she killed a child, no, there were it any law repercussions, but there was a little bit of supernatural repercussions. So, MJ, had you heard of La Yerona before? Never. I had not. And it is very scary. She was depicted, I understand there's

also a movie about this. This is like a Latin American folklore legend about a, like the, and it's, I think I was disturbed because it's a very powerful idea. It's like the, the maternal force of like love and despair drives this spirit to like kill children. Yes. And so Darla Dickinson, which back when the turkey exploded in Archie's boxing ring, oh, I remember. Her youngest son was murdered. And so she calls upon La Yerona to go after Tony and baby Anthony, which they only ever refer to baby Anthony as baby Anthony. And that does kind of drive me crazy. And so what does La Yorona do is that she creeps out from sweet water. They pretended as if this is only a Rivervale thing,

but that she was like filled, her clothes were filled with stones, and so were all of her kids, because they thought that she was the one that was killing all of the kids in this, in Riverdale of centuries and centuries ago. So she comes back out and starts killing children in Riverdale, or like going after them. I'm sorry, Rivervale.

What am I, a Chrome browser right now? She starts going after the kids, including if you remember, this is, it's just such a weird thing. In the last episode before this, Betty was miraculously pregnant with Archie's child after Archie had been sacrificed to the town. Yeah. The trees were running wet with maple syrup because of the sacrifice. But then La Yerona takes the baby from inside. of Betty. I was extremely upset by this.

Yeah. So it's really scary. So, right. The episode begins with Betty being like, oh, I'm going to name the baby Archie. And so it's like, okay, we're in a universe where like Betty is still pregnant and Archie's the father and she's naming, there's no acknowledgement of what happened before. But also

and like they're all not like currently like in a witch cult worshiping Cheryl Blasie. But like things are normal, but Archie's gone and Betty is pregnant. So it was like a very interesting like, wait, what's still real? What's not still real thing? And yeah, Betty like then, like is is a victim of La Yerona and she goes to Dr. Colonel Jr. And he tells her you're not pregnant anymore, which also is like disturbingly similar

to the equally disturbing plotline in Midnight Mass. Have you watched Midnight Mass? No, I haven't. There's something very similar that happens. And it's also very upsetting. And so, right, like the origin story is that she was like a nurse in the, you know, colonial times or whatever. And because babies died all the time then because of like illnesses and germs and stuff, all the townspeople thought that she was killing them.

And so they sank her and her children. And so that's why she, her like anguish drives her to come out and kill all the children. She starts with, by the way, the oft-forgotten twins that we every few episodes were like, What happened to the twins? Turns out they still live at Thistle House. They are living at thistle House now. So it goes after one of the twins, goes after. So it's like, so this entire time this is weaved into, there are three stories.

This is a 40-minute long episode. There are three big stories going on. So there's a law you're on. That starts up top, right? Cut to Sam and Diane, which I'm assuming is a cheers reference, Sam and Diane, who were killed. There's a couple that is nothing to do with Rivervale. They were killed inside of the apartment that, remember, the episode before was filled with cockroaches.

Well, now they also happen to find out that there was a murder-suicide inside of Tabitha and Jughead's new apartment. Because there's like a secret room, like that cool, you know, Twitter post that was real about the person who found a secret, like, apartment in there. Very scary. In reality, very scary, which also harkens back to when Jughead was living in the walls of Riverdale High School. in the first season of Riverdale. So they find this, they find a little, they find an alcove that is filled with empty scotch bottles that has a bunch of boats inside of it. And they find out the story of the murder, suicide.

And the girlfriend stabbed the boyfriend to death. And so they're like, that's so crazy that this happened inside. And obviously, they're being taken over by these ghosts inside of the house. And, like, Jughead is getting into, you know, like, shunuch. shining-esque territory of like writing all the time, writing all the time, and his Tabitha goes more and more mad. And then she almost stabs him to death because he wouldn't put the tooth base cap back on the toothpaste. Yes. And and then when this all culminates in like, you know, when they kind of realize that they have been, that their like relationship is deteriorating

because they've been taken over by the ghost, it like culminates with her almost killing him with a hammer. And then my favorite part about this episode was that they like realize like, oh my gosh, like we've been, we're being haunted. Like, let's put the brakes on this fight. And then they just like kind of talk about it afterwards. And Jugg Ed was like, oh, that was our first fight. And it was like, you literally almost killed him with a hammer. Like they talk so calmly about it afterwards. It's so calmly about it. I was like, wow, that was your first fight. And you guys are just fine. You're not going to, you're not going to try and unpack. I wrote down the line, I'll tell you why she kills him. She kills him because she gets sick of supporting him while he displays a

complete disregard for her feelings. Maybe that's why she brains him with a hammer, which is what she's yelling at him when she's got a ball peen hammer in her hand. Yeah. And Sam, the, you know, in the couple, the ghost couple, he was like an artist and she was so, but also, can I just say regarding this plot line, I'm sorry, there is zero chemistry between. None. Tabitha and Jonathan. Absolutely whatsoever. There is none. Are they roommates?

It's zero. Like why? I'm sorry. I don't totally understand why Tabitha is here, aside from like being pops. I know we have talked about this. Like they're getting, they want new, you know, they want new fresh faces. I think they want more diversity. It's like, but they're not just like with Kevin.

Get better on it. It's like this half-assed effort at diversity where it's like, oh yeah, we've got a gay character, we never write anything for him. He's just there. Now it's like with Tabitha, it's like, yeah, we have another, you know, person of color, but like we, like, who is she? Does she have a personality? No, she's just always mad at Jughead. That's her only personality. Or she's working. Or she's working. Like, she's just not a character. She's not interesting. Like, at least they give, like, you know, Tony and some of the other, like new characters who came in, like things like, you know, I can tell you all about Tony. Like, Tony is a character. Oh, yeah. Tabitha's, like, and so Tabitha and

Jughead have this boring-ass relationship. They move in together and then she's just consumed with rage for him because he's like a shitty self-indulgent writer who doesn't like do shit around the house. And so that part, you know, that reads fairly real. But like it's just- Yeah. So what does she see in him? Yeah. Also, it's always like she goes and smashes the typewriter and what is the thing he says with, I don't know why this sticks out my brain. He's like, Betty gave me that.

I mean. And that's what you say in the middle of your fight. Like, it's like, well, okay. But that's the thing. Like, are they setting up for, you know, there's all, any time there's like, anytime they invest in Tabith's plot line, they do so in being like, oh, Betty, Betty. You know, like, so she has a conversation with Betty and Betty's like, oh, he always let me read his vomit drafts, his first drafts of his work. And she's like, oh, yeah.

They're always kidding them against each other. And she, and Jughead doesn't let Tabitha read them. So I guess that, I think that we're supposed to, in other words, I guess we're supposed to. to all see that there's no chemistry. My question is, are we supposed to all see that there's no chemistry, that he obviously still likes Betty more, you know, but like Betty and Archie, I just don't, like, I feel like Betty and Tabitha is like, well, that's what happens when he fall in love with Betty. She allows you to be sacrificed for the town.

Because like, Betty is also such a good character that she, she was like fun to watch with Jughead and fun to watch with Archie. It's like, I kind of root for both of those relationships. And whereas with Tabitha, I'm just like, what? What is, like, what is your deal? Are you going to turn out to be, is there more to you? Because right now there's just, I feel like that's my only, like, real complaint with, with the, with River Vale right now is that, like, Tabitha feels like a very flat character. Although I did like this plot line in terms of, like, her being consumed by rage because Jughead's just a self-indulgent idiot.

Which, as she should. And I will say they gave her a little bit more in the next episode, but I don't know if I like what they gave us in the next episode. but we will get there in just a moment because we still need to talk about in this episode all of the weird shit that happened between Reggie, a teacher, and his car. Yeah, this was also very upsetting. I was upset.

So you guys remember Bella, Bella, and I'm not talking about Twy babies. I am talking about Reggie's car that he was absolutely obsessed with in high school. He gets another version of the car, he gets so excited that it's to a point that Veronica thinks that he's cheating on her because he's got this

car in the high school, I guess, and he's fixed her all up. She realizes that, like, how obsessed he is with this car finds a picture inside of the car of an older woman, and then she accidentally drops the picture in front of

Principal Weatherby, and Brinsel Weatherby's says, oh, why do you have that picture? That's the picture of a teacher that used to work here long ago, but she had irresponsible relationships with the children. No one's talked about that abusive teacher in years. Very, very blasé about this obviously huge upsetting scandal that happened in Rivervale. And, uh, turns out she also was very close to Reggie. And her name was, Isabella and this is like I got genuinely

upset by this plotline because he kept envisioning like Reggie kept envisioning this a ghost woman inside of the car and so what does Veronica do because now she assumes that Reggie had been assaulted by a teacher had been sexually assaulted by a teacher so what does she do to she does to break

the ties between him and the car and the teacher, she destroys the car. Not only does she destroy the car. She destroys the car while Reggie's father is dying in the hospital. Dying in the hospital. And so happens to decide to destroy the... She knows his father's dying in the hospital. She decides to destroy the car the day that Reggie's father dies.

And he's like, oh, I'm sad because my father just died. And she's like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'm here for you. And it's like, bitch, you just smashed his car. And also because he, and then he was like, I didn't ever have sex with the teacher. She was just, we were just close friends. But even regardless, that's not, therapy is what me. I know.

Like, it's like, that's not what, don't destroy the car because he may or may not have been assaulted by a teacher inside of it. You're mad at your boyfriend because he was groomed like at that. and like assaulted at worst by an adult when he was a child. And so you, in order to express your concern about his like unhealthy, you know, continued fixation on this what was clearly an abusive relationship, you destroy the thing that like he loves. Well, his dad is out of his death death. And then you're like, oh, how are we doing?

Can we check in about us? Oh, and then she buys him another car. Oh, that makes up for it. Thanks, Veronica. He's, of course, like, oh, yeah, okay, thanks for that car that I don't love the way that I loved my other car. And she's like, how are we doing? Are we okay?

And it's like, Veronica, his dad just died. Like, read the room. Don't do like a how are we check in when he is obviously in like multiple crises. Yeah. Uh, yeah. And then on top of it, right after this happens. back to Tony, who is trying to battle La Yerona because then Betty, now that she believes, because her own baby has been taken from her belly,

she sits with, of course, the witch of the town, Cheryl, and they end Nana Rose, and they have a seance to try and summon La Yerona. La Yerona speaks through Nana Rose, used like an old meat puppet, and she's like, blah, la la, la. as La Yarona is talking through her body. Yeah, that's good. And so what does Tony do? She meets her at Sweetwater River, and she's about to give, you think she's going to

give her baby Anthony, but no, she gives her herself instead. She gives baby Anthony to Betty and says, take care of him. And then Tony becomes La Yerona herself. To save her baby. Jackie, it's cute. She becomes a haunted witch woman who will murder children. for eternity. Save the baby.

Give the baby away. I don't, I know I don't have a baby. But like, give the baby away. Make another one. You know, it's like, you've got time. You look great. Don't go be a witch woman in the water. I mean, it's, on the one hand, it's sweet to be like, oh, a mother will sacrifice anything

for her child. On the other hand, she's definitely just like ensuring that she will kill many, many, many, many more children to save the life of her one. And so that's tough. You know, can't sleep at night very well in your swamp with that decision. I just was so, and again, I usually have Jeff to watch these episodes with me. So alone, I was like, what are you talking about Rivervale? And then you think that, and then cut to the next episode.

Yes, that was only one episode of Rivervale. And now we need to jump into episode three called Chapter 98, Mr. Seifer. Man, when that man introduced himself as Lou Seifer, I had to pause it. I laughed for. Yes. The devil has come to Riverdale and Kevin does finally get his own plotline for the first time in, what, two and a half season? Oh, yeah. And it has nothing to do with him like trolling the woods.

Right. Shock. Yeah. While all this is happening, do you guys remember in real Riverdale that Betty and, not Betty, that Veronica and Reggie were creating a casino. Yes, the second casino that they are putting inside of Riverdale, Rivervale. But this one is called Byzantium, right? Oh, I don't remember.

Babylonium. Ballonium. Babylonium. Babylonium, the casino. So a lot of this has to do around the sinning in the town of Rivervale. So again, like you brought up earlier, Archie doesn't show up in either one of these. Tony is now not in this episode. So I think that they are now like popping them off as time goes on.

But I'm still so curious as to what they're going to echo from this into Riverdale when it goes back to Riverdale. Yeah, because I was also trying to figure out the continuity like in terms of Tabitha and Jughead too because like they're still in the same apartment, right? But like the nook isn't there. So it's like did anything like it's very hard to know like what happened like. what stays and what doesn't. I guess it's like, it's just like a Twilight Zone got to the. I think they just keep going.

Yeah. This episode, season six, episode three, it was genuine, this is another one that was genuinely creepy. Yeah, this one was good. I liked this one a lot. Yeah, and you think at first, like, okay, the devil's come to Rivervale

and he's going to try and get as many souls as possible. Turns out, selling not only your own soul, but another person's soul to the devil, very easy to do. You just got to give them the pen that Lucifer gives you to sign any piece of paper, or I guess you could just slip it in. But I think that's my big takeaway from this, is that you can't trust anyone in Rivervale, and they will sell your soul to the devil if given the chance, even for like not that much overall, I would say. Yeah. So let's go through the kind of the, you know, the bullet points.

of who sells whose soul. Okay. So, we'll start it off. There's Kevin. Kevin sells his own soul. And it's weird because Lucifer does have a book with some of their names in it that he's slowly crossing off. So what does Kevin sell his soul to the devil for? He sells his soul to be famous,

to be a Broadway star. There is a musical number. Thangs is now his manager and his boyfriend again. It's all coming up Kevin for him. So he gets that pretty easily. Good for Kevin. He deserves it. Talk about Tabitha and her weird backstory, not backstory, because we have met her father

before. Remember they were like, like a Mark Osweilos shadow. Yes. He's Hiram, but he hates pops for some reason, even though the whole kind of origin story of Tabitha is that Pops is hers because Pops is her grandpa. But for some reason, the middle generation, her dad hates Pops and wants her to be like a business woman or something. But she's like, no, I love Pops. And so, yeah, so we get a little bit more Tabitha backstory in this episode.

So maybe I stay corrected on what I said before. No, I don't think, no, I think you can stay exactly where you were because I don't like what happens with this. Because, all right, so essentially, the devil comes to Pops. And like, he's about to take Pops' soul because this is. where it gets weird. Generations ago, Tabith's great-grandfather sold his soul to the devil

for pops to be financially stable and for it to always be a fixture of the town. And then every time, when the devil comes back to take the soul, they pass the soul along to the next generation.

Yeah. The start was confusing. It won't take them. It'll take the next generation. Yeah, but that's... I don't understand. That's not how selling a soul works. No. No, it doesn't. That certainly 100% does not. So the reason why Pops is still around is because great-grandfather Tate had sold his soul to the devil for it.

So the devil comes and even though like Pop Tate could just transfer the soul, I guess, to his son, he's not gonna. So the devil gives Tabith an option. You can either have Pop Tate's soul be taken from his body or give him the keys to Pop's diner. Which, again, we are much like the La Yerona situation, we're presented with the like, do you want to sacrifice one person or do you want to sacrifice dozens and hundreds of people? And every time people of Rivervale are like, you know what, I'm going to protect my own personal interest at the expense of all of the other people. You know, and I'm proud to you, Tampa, that you obviously do love your grandfather. You guys have a really strong bond, but you have then, you know, doomed the town. I need to also, though, say, I don't understand a lot of things about this part of it.

But it's weird because she says, yes, I'm going to give you the diner. Give me like 20 more hours. And then an angel comes named Raphael to the diner. to be like, listen, Tabitha, I'm an angel. I'm one of the good guys. And this whole like good versus evil battle between heaven and hell kind of surrounds Pop Steiner. So how about we help you out? How about the good guys help you out?

Are you guys following what I'm saying? Barely. I'm barely following what I'm saying because as I watch it, I'm like, okay. So she can't give over the keys to Pops because Pops has been decided eons and eons ago that it is where the battle site between good and evil is going to play out. Yeah, I guess because the devil's original deal with great-grandfather Tate, I guess. So the angels come to Pops to be like, this is where we've got to like stake our battles. So we're going to help you.

So I'm going to put that story on pause because we're going to circle back to that later because I laughed so hard I almost threw up when we get to the end of how the angel helps her save Pops Diner. Because in the middle of all this, devil's very busy in Riverdale. He is going after. So he wants to go get Jughead soul as well, right? And Jug gets like, I'm not going to give you my soul. Why would I do that? So what does the devil do? This is a weird, it's a weird depiction of what the devil is capable of in this episode.

It's very weird. It's got like a real eye on Rivervale right now. Yeah, he knows what everybody needs and what everybody's weaknesses are, which does sound like something the devil would do. Sure. So what he does is that he's like, oh, you're feeling all this writer's block. What if I give you a devil's insider interview? And I'm going to tell you all of the secrets of heaven and hell and the world. And you can either, to keep your soul, you can publish the interview and become world famous but then never be able to physically write ever again.

Or I give you the interview. You don't publish it. And then you can never publish anything ever again. You can write amazing novels, but no one else will ever read them. Yeah. So Jughead's like, well, let me interview you first. So he interviews him, of course, shows nothing. And then afterwards, he's shell-shocked because the devil just told him all the secrets of the universe.

He decides to publish it. And then he can't legitimately write anymore. He's like, on a dark and story night type, type, type, type, type. And it just comes out as gibberish. And he's like, oh, well, that was literal. So what does he do? He sells a soul to the devil. And now he has it all.

Very fast how the slippery the slope goes. Should I sell my soul to the devil? Right. So the initial, like, you know, two choices that the devil gave didn't involve Jughead's soul. It was just like, here's like a little trap I'm going to put you in. No, it's just an evil game that they play. And then Jughead's like, oh.

I've got, I'm finally a successful writer. Everybody loves my interview with the devil. Of course, I'll sell my soul. Yeah, so that was weird. That was a weird one. And you know what was also a weird one? Let's talk soul for a soul here. Reggie and Veronica, you know, they're not endgame.

And I think it makes sense that Ronnie never looked into Reggie's eyes and said, babe, we're endgame. Because she's end game with Charlie. Oh, God, Twilight. Twilight lives. It just seeps out of my fucking brain. A-Cab except for Charlie She is not end-game with Reggie The way she's end-game with Archie

Yeah I think that I really want I mean I think that Veronica and Reggie Really do have chemistry And perhaps I want to watch them fuck Yeah I'm always down to watch them fuck

Perhaps credit to the writers Or I'm not sure if it's on purpose Or an accident As with many things with Riverdale But it's just like Their relationship just like Absolutely is not taking off Like it's just

They don't you know They're just kind of stuck. It's like kind of like... They're criminals. You know, they're both criminals. It's hard to be both criminals looking out for yourself and then like, but then your girlfriend won't make you an office. Yeah, they're both deeply selfish. Veronica, Veronica is just so selfish. How are you going to be in a relationship with someone else when you're Veronica? Especially, I guess you have to be just as selfish she is. Because turns out, Reggie goes to Veronica. I was like, Veronica, the casino is doing so well because I sold my soul to the devil.

So I need you because only Veronica could out devil the devil. We got to make him a better deal. So who does she get on the phone? Oh my God. Is it Senator Sexual Assalter from episodes or seasons ago? Nick St. Clair. Remember, Nick St. Clair is the one that inside of that suite and I believe with the fizzle rocks. Yeah.

Six. Fizzle rocks. Fizzle? Jingle jangle. One of them. One of them. Yeah. He tried to be a creepist, and he succeeded, if I remember.

And Nick Sinclair is a Sleesball. And in this, now remember, there was a time jump seven years later. He's senator's slees ball. So what does Veronica do? She seduces him and then gives and then gets him to say to her, yes, I would give my soul to the devil to have sex with you. and then the devil comes and takes him away, which again, very easy to do.

That's a very, he didn't have to sign anything. It just kind of transferred over to this guy. Yeah, right. Yeah, the deeds to each other's souls. It's like giving your own soul away, Kevin and Jughead style, like that pretty straightforward. But the amount of like giving other people souls away is where we get a little bit.

Very easy to do. Runaway train. And especially because she makes the deal with the devil, Like, I gave you Nick St. Clair. And now you can't touch a hair on my Reggie Kinn's head. And he goes, okay, I won't touch your hair on his head. Turns out, oh, little Sneeksie Boy, don't beat up his car. Sneaksie boy sold Veronica's soul to the devil.

So now her soul is still up for it. That's a dick move. You break up with somebody after that. Then it's like, I don't know if we should be. together anymore. So she's upset. And she's like, well, now I got to give him another soul. So she's like, I'm going to give him Alice Cooper's soul. So she brings Alice Cooper in, tries to get her to sign a contract that's like, I'm just going to give you for no reason a bunch of money from the casino. You just got to sign this little happy signy sheet. No, don't look at the happy

signy sheet. Where they're kind of tapping into like, I guess, previous seasons where Alice was like easily swayed by like kind of Christian themed cults, although the Christianity was never really the central theme of any of the cults because she's like, for some reason in this episode, Alice is obsessed with sin. It's very weird. It kind of harkens back to earlier, like searching Alice, Alice is lost, but also totally not set up as to why Alice, like, cares so much about sin. So she's kind of Veronica's enemy, which I think because she wants to close the casino,

because the casino represents sin to, again, newly weirdly prophylotizing Alice. For no reason. I was like, what are you talking about? Like, where is this coming from? Again. Right. Even though Veronica, I think ostensibly still best friends with Betty is like, yeah, sorry, I'm just going to sell your mom's soul to the devil because she's like kind of in the way of my casino that I mention once every three episodes.

Yes. So this episode, because of all the sinning, it really centers a lot around. Bambamcium. It's big. It's big. Babylonium. Babylonium. It's big and it's big.

So this, so Nash got in a pickle. She feels bad. She's like, you're a pain in the ass, but you don't deserve to burn in hell. So what does she do? She makes another deal with the devil. He is, again, very easily swayed. I feel like this is a lot, it comes a lot down to, like, don't you as a parent have to, like, when you say something, you got to follow through? I feel like the devil should take a page out of a pair of people.

So this is another instance, MJ, where someone instead of them, dying kills 52 people a year because now once a week the devil's going to come and skim off the top like all of the investors do with the casino and take a soul from the casino floor once a week yeah do you think that the casino's going to be like don't you think it would be on blast if a person's soul was being taken once a week i guess they don't die but they are taking people's souls. Once a week, it might impact business. Yeah.

I mean, again, I can like... It might impact business. Like, once a week, someone seems to die at the casino. But it's Riverdale, so people would be like, I'll just keep going back. Yeah, like, I can... I can hand it to Tony. You know, I, maybe I would save my own children in exchange for killing, you know... Countless.

Countless children for eternity. Like, that's a complicated choice. I have less sympathy for Veronica or Tabitha, honestly, to be like, you care about your business. You care about your business so much. More than people's existences? I just like, I don't, I don't understand it. There's nothing in my life I need more than, like, than taking people.

So I can honestly say that. Now the devil's going to come and test you on that, Jackie. They'll be like, you're, no. Jeff or you have to, you know, one podcast listener a week, I get their soul. Yeah, well, take them all, I guess. Take them all. But also, though, who does Veronica start with? Who soul does she give him first? Reggie's, the ultimate betrayer. So again, very easy. If you don't like somebody, you can sell their soul to the devil just by saying it aloud. Right. Even though there was a big plot line about getting their signature at the same time,

she's also just handing out souls willy-nilly. And I guess, like, it's got to be, like, isn't part of it, like, about being, like, your choice and your fate? And isn't that, like, what, having your soul and the idea of selling your soul to the devil? Isn't that what it's about? Of, like, I choose this mortal coil, this one go-abouts for eternal hellfire just so I can have what I want for once. Yeah.

Like that's why it's a selfish thing to do. Right. But I don't think it's a pot. I don't think you should be able to give away somebody else's soul. Yeah. I don't, most of my familiarity with this, uh, you know, kind of like trope is from the Simpsons episode where Homer sells his soul for a donut. Of course.

Of course. I don't really know how. I don't know anything either. What the rules are about selling souls. But I have not heard of like being able to like switcheroo. Oh, you try to sell my soul. I'm going to give your soul away. that, you know. Especially not in Rivervale

where it's like, oh, but they all have such complicated histories together. You can't. Can you imagine like asking someone who hated you 20 years ago to be like, yeah, but wouldn't you give him Jackie Soul? Yes. Get him Jackie Soul. But we didn't even get into the weirdest, biggest part of this episode, which is the fact that TBK

is, gets into custody. So, FBI, of course, calls Betty, and he's like, Betty, you're FBI. We need you to be FBI and go get the confession. This is Glenn called. Glenn calls. So you remember, so part of it, I'm trying to get Jeff to watch Rivervale because he is working a lot. And I'm like, but I need to talk to someone about it. So I need you to watch this.

So I just sent him a text that said, you might be right about something. because a while ago, he claimed that Glenn was TBK. He swore it up and down that Glenn was TBK. So in this, I thought that he was about to be right. So she's got to go and get a confession at a TBK. And if you remember, he's got that creepy mask on. And so he's there in shackles. This part was very upsetting.

And that like, she's like, well, I don't know. I don't know if I trust you And he's like, I'm the devil. She's like, I don't think you're the devil. You're TBK. I know you. I know who you are. And he's like, oh, don't believe me.

And then she's like, I want to talk to my father if that's who you are. So she talks to Hal from hell through his meat puppets, another meat puppet. She talks to hell and she knows it's how because Hal brings up where she used to, where it used to bring her. It's like, he's the devil. If he is the devil, he knows everything. What are you talking about? ready. So she's got to be like, oh, I'm going to figure out what to do with you.

We're going to get you to confess. So she comes back and then he makes her talk to Polly, who is also burning in hell. Right. Remind me, why is Polly in hell? You know what? I don't know. Maybe it's the cult thing. The devil doesn't say. It's just like, oh, she just happens to be. She's just in hell. In hell. That's not nice. I'm really trying to, like, stick it. But then he tries, this is like, if this is going

towards some big, weird battle between good and evil and Rivervale, I guess I'm here for it because essentially TBK tells her that he wants her, like, TBK, aka the devil, wants her loyalty because there's a war brewing, the one between good and evil,

and that Betty is the whore of Babylon from the book of revelation. Now, I'm going to say, I don't necessarily know what that means because I don't know anything about the Bible. But I think that it's not good to call someone that, I would assume. And so what does Betty do?

She takes a scissor and stabs TB Gage. She comes behind him and stabs him, stabs him over and over and over and over again. Blood is all over her. And then she goes down and she's like, I'm finally going to find out who you are. She cuts off the mask with the scissors. And it was Glenn, but Glenn was not TBK. The devil used Glenn as a meat puppet to act as TBK.

And then she just straight up murdered the fuck out of this person for no reason. But I like Jeff's idea. What if what if Glenn does turn out to be TBK? To be TBK, I don't know. But then this is, this is where my questions come. What is going to happen after this five-story arc? What of this? Because they keep interweaving the actual plot.

Right. With these, this weird bullshit. But it's tough because there's, I mean, to add, like, there's, let's be honest, there's really nothing but ashes left of whatever Riverdale was. Oh, yeah. after season five, right? So, like, the only, the main question to me is, like, who will still be alive when River Vale is over and when Riverdale comes back?

And so if, to the extent to which they're going to continue the TBK plotline with Glenn, like, that is actually very interesting to me. I just want to make sure, despite myself, I want Archie to be alive. I want Tony to be alive. Like, I don't want any of these things to be forever. permanent. And also, I'm sure that even more people are going to die, and I don't really want

any of them to die. No, because there's two more episodes, but I like the fact that, like, Archie is on in it right now. I like that totally, like, I like that they're keeping some of it going. So she obviously chose the side of, I guess, good,

but ultimately evil, because now she's, I mean, we already know Betty's been a murderer multiple times. Now she's, like, really extra murderer. But, what was really crazy, remember when I said we were going to circle back to the end? So remember when I was like, oh, then an angel comes to Tabitha, and Raphael was like, we'll help you because this is where, because Pop Steiner is where the battle between good and evil is going to happen. So the devil comes, Lucifer, comes to the, comes to Pop, is like, well, Pop, looks like you're feeling better.

He's like, I am, thanks. And Tabba's like, before we like give you. the diner. Why don't we have one last milkshake? So she makes, don't worry, Lucifer does, of course, eat and drink makes him a milkshake. They all drink it. And what was inside of the milkshake? Tears from the Virgin Mary that she shed at the crucifix. Also, big old vial of them. Raphael must have really gotten in there to scoop out those tears. Whole big jug of tears. Because then it's very what we do in the shadows. The devil doubles over and pukes exactly like how they puke in what we do in the shed.

Gunk and he's puked and he's puking and he's puking. And she's like, and also because we drank the tears from the Virgin Mary that she shed at the crazy fiction. Now, Pop and I are also consecrated. Like they're also like they have holy protection. And so what she does is she throws the tears all over the diner. Pops, I'm sorry, it's Pops that is consecrated now. It is now a place of holiness. It's not Tabitha.

So Tabitha and Pops aren't holy, but the diner is. Right, but they are protected from his evil spirit because they also drank the tears from the Virgin Mary that she shed at the crucifixion. Wow. Yeah, man, that's great. All right. Okay, I said I wanted to plot with Tabitha. you gave me one.

Thank you, Riverdale. I guess, but at the same time, like, what are you talking about, guys? Like, this is crazy. But again, this is the question. Will it carry over? In the next episode, will Tabitha be some kind of saint

or angel slash God? That will be cool. But again, it's not clear what carries over within this universe. But obviously, I think some things do. So maybe that will, and that's kind of cool. Like if that whole pops the diner is holy, you know, Pop and Tabitha are holy and like, you know, have God on their side or whatever. Like that's kind of a cool seed to plant.

I'm down for that. Yeah. And it is, all of that is what happened in these two 40 minute long television episodes. They don't leave you wanting more. Sometimes they leave you wanting something else. But in this one, they did not leave us wanting more. I'm so. I'm so curious.

And I am like, it is laughable, obviously. I laughed through both of these episodes, but moments of genuine creepiness. Yeah. And I just, I can't wait to see what happens with it. It's so, and it's so, because of course, like all sorts of supernatural things were happening in regular Riverdale, like the Oregon Harvesting cult and stuff.

But it was like, like, it wasn't owning it. It was like, there was, remember we talked about it? It was like, is this true detective? Is it like true, is it like a, Is it like a gritty crime show? Like, what is it? I feel like it didn't quite know. And now it's just like fucking anything could happen.

Fucking revelations. Fucking the shining fucking exorcists. It's just, it's a lot. It's great though. Like for some reason, the fact that there are now no rules works way better. Just right. They're the Outback Steakhouse of CW shows. And that's saying something.

That is because, I mean, I've seen quite a good amount of supernatural. And this is saying something. that I think Riverdale takes the cake as the outback steakhouse of the CW. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I got to say, I am really enjoying Rivervale, like, quite a lot. Like, I was genuinely spooked. Um, I was, I was disturbed and I, like, look forward to watching it.

I'm just so glad that I was able to scream about it to someone because also I watch them, I usually watch it so stone that, like, it's a fever dream. And I, uh, especially. alone if I've no one to yell about it with. I'm just like, did that happen? Or was that a dream of mine? Yeah. It's tough.

I had to watch both episodes back to back because I didn't realize there was two. And I was like, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me because I was so tired. And it was so late. And so I was like standing up trying to not fall asleep. But the devil one, I was so, I was like, this shit is so confusing to me. And so it was actually very helpful to process it with you because I had forgotten. about my favorite moment of the episode, which was when the devil puked.

And I totally forgot about the tears and the pop and tabithet. The diner tears, consecration of the Virgin Mary thing. That's great. Love it. No notes. Especially when, like, there are how many,

like, how many episodes in the seasons of Riverdale that we have watched, that, like, if you had to watch two back to back, you'd be like, I'd rather just, sometimes I'd rather be dead. To have to watch both of them. Like, I don't even know.

But now it's like, no, it's because so much is going on. I'm actually, like, genuinely interested in whatever bat shit thing they're going to do next. Yeah, I actually, right. By the time the first one was over, I wasn't like, okay, now I need to go lie down, like the way that I usually have with a regular Riverdale. It takes it stole on you as a human being. This is a specific kind of fun torture that we've chosen for herself a long time ago. And I love it. I mean, obviously, we're still going with it.

I can't believe Betty fucking stabbed Glenn to death. Yeah. That was great. I was like, I can't believe that that's crazy. Yeah, that's great. There are a couple of things from this little universe that I do want to carry over, and that is definitely one of them. Yeah.

Yeah, get rid of Glenn. We're all, he's borough snorro. Yeah. Or make, like, if Jeff's right and he's the TBK, that would make things, that would be great. tie some shit together. It would make things make sense. It would be like, why was Glenn there? Why was TBK there? I would actually, you know, if Jeff's not a writer on the show, he should be.

I think that it would. I liked the theory already, and then I'm very excited to see what's going to happen. So don't worry, guys. We have two full more episodes coming out. So we will be back next week with next episode for Riverdale Round. Oh, River Vale. Rounder. I am excited, and I'm happy to be back. with you guys. And Lord knows, and hit us with your theories. If you got other theories, I think that it would be great. Yeah, let him. Let me hear them. I'm going to, I'm going to think about him. I'm going to ruminate on them. Oh, yeah, baby. And we love you guys. I hope you guys had a good holiday. And we will be back next week. Thank you so much, MJ. Thank you, Jackie. I need,

you for this. Oh, we need each other. Dave. Love you guys. Talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors. You can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.