Page 7 - Riverdale Roundup Vol. 39: Going off the Sexy Rails

Episode Date: November 13, 2019

Jackie and Molly recap "Chapter Sixty-Two: Witness for the Prosecution" and they talk about head daddy running for mayor...from prison, Betty's 20/20 murder vision and the disturbing amount of incest this season.    Hatchi Matchi, we're coming to a city near you! Get your tickets for Page 7 & Wizard and the Bruiser LIVE in Los Angeles, Chicago, Pontiac and Milwaukee here!      This episode was made possible by listeners like you! Support us on our Patreon and get weekly bonus episodes, ad-free main episodes and more!   Intro song by Green Dreams   Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

conversation, Molly and I, by both saying we almost, well, I almost fell asleep during this episode and Molly did fall asleep during this episode. You are a mother of two, so I feel like you get that. Like, you could fall asleep anytime and it doesn't really, I don't know what it means. Is that true now? Yes, that is true. But I, uh, I fell asleep after this episode, um, during this episode. I'm not exactly sure. I did, yeah, I don't know if it was that I was bored of that. I know that it was that I was tired, but I may have also been slightly bored, but I also do feel like a lot happened. I think that we are, this, the beginning of the season, so of course, guys, we're talking

about Riverdale season for episode five, chapter 62, witness for the prosecution. Of course, which means Veronica, even though she said, I think it was last episode, that she would drop dead before she would ever be a witness for her mother's prosecution. But, you know, Things change in Riverdale. I think really what it is is that we saw this a lot last season where there would be like all of the buildup in between episodes

and then a big punch. But the first four episodes of the season were so good that we got a little selfish. Right, right. There always used to be those like those builder episodes where when we were doing it with Marcus,

I remember being like, okay, not a lot happened in this one. This was a segue episode. from one plot point to another. So now, I mean, we've got, we do have a lot of secrets coming out in Riverdale. As someone that found out late in life that I also have a secret sister, really kind of enjoyed the secret sister plotline of Hermione Luna. Not Hermione Luna, excuse me, Veronica Luna.

I have to keep calling her Veronica Luna because I always call her Veronica Lodge, and it's difficult not to. Yeah, the Secret Sister plot line. I think is probably the best place to start because as much as we were predicting a lot of grandfather, FP grandfather stuff, which we will get into.

Yeah, and which we were very hot on the scent. We were not predicting Secret Sister. I wasn't expecting that. I will say, you're going to go throw it out there. Secret Sister or just regular sister, I've never seen my father stand with me or anyone in my family, the way Hiram Lodge stands with Hermosa Lodge.

If you watch the episode, Hermosa is just some sexy Latino woman that is sitting in the back of her mother's trial. And of course, we don't know who it is. I kept screaming secret aunt. I thought it was going to be a secret. I thought it was going to be either Hermione or Hiram's secret sister because she is a little bit older. But I am, I call bully.

Is that a thing? That's a phrase, right? Yeah, we invented it. Yeah, so I'm calling bully on it. I think that there's no way that that's secret daughter. Really? Do you think she's actually a secret sister of another generation? I would love it if it's secret sister because I'm really into Riverdale's whole secret siblings plotlines.

Also, sidebar, quick note, no talk from Cheryl this episode and her secret sibling problem. Maybe that's why I fell asleep because I really come to Riverdale for Cheryl. God, I love Cheryl. And I just, I also come to see T.T. and Cheryl's kisses. And I got done one kiss this episode. Yeah. And, and, and so the, the Hermosa sister reveal, did we, did we, did we get any meat from it? Or was it just like, secret sister next time on Riverdale?

Like, because she was lurking the whole time. Yeah, she's the family cleaner upper that she's. a private investigator from Miami. And she comes in to do all the dirty work of the family. But if we haven't seen her before, what, although we, I guess we did meet Hiram's mistress last year. Ugh. Remember when we met?

It was Kelly Ripa. It was Kelly Ripa. Yeah, but we, right, there's been many a fire to put out since we have known this cast of characters in Uridale. And we've never seen this sister bitch before. No, but I do want to throw it out there. I don't know if you noticed, but Hiram Lodge's prison uniform did say he was number one. Number one prisoner.

Number one prisoner because he's the head daddy of the prison and he's the head daddy of the Vodge family. And you can't keep him down. Again, I wasn't really even paying attention to Hermione Lodge. So, Hermione Lodge is in jail. Hiram Lodge is in jail. It's because I don't really care about this plot line. And I'm sorry, guys. don't really care. Yeah, that's, I was going to say, the more I think about it,

the, this was the least, despite the, they hit reveal of a secret sister, this was definitely the least interesting plotline of the episode, even less interesting than Archie's. That's why we have to, that's why I'm just, we got to talk about it. We got to get it out of the way. So we're trying to get Hermione Lodge out of jail. So Veronica Lodge goes to the governor to blackmail him again. I love, I love Veronica's disdain for the just, system applying to her. I truly do appreciate it. That part was very funny. So she, even though for some reason, so Molly Ringwald is playing Hermione Lodge's lawyer, but for some reason her daughter is also sitting in on the counseling

session to let her mother know you should plead guilty because I'll tell Governor Duly that he has to pardon you. Yeah. Veronica just just does quit pro quo. with the governor here and there and everywhere. She is truly, you know, I do think the youth should be empowered. But Veronica might be too empowered. She's the Kim Kardashian of Riverdale. And, you know, it's difficult to hold that crown up. Heavy is the head that holds the crown.

And I also love that Molly Ringwald is the lawyer. Like, I know she is a lawyer, but, you know, it just, I just appreciate that there's no other lawyer in Riverdale who could do it. It's also great because even in an interview I watched with all the parents of Riverdale, Molly Ringwald said about her character. She's like, yeah, and you know, and my character is going to be, Mary's going to be the lawyer to Hermione because, you know, in Riverdale, there are no sections of law.

If you are a lawyer, you can practice any kind of law you want. And I thought that was a really great line for Molly Ringwald. and all of the parents laughing about how just ridiculous this show is. It makes me so happy. So now, I guess, I forget, though, is hired. So did Hermione Lodge get out of jail? She pled guilty to trying to kill her husband. And then she thinks that she's just going to get out of jail.

Yeah, because, right, Veronica was like, I'll just tell the governor he has to. And everyone was like, okay, like the lawyer, Molly Wrigal, was in for that conversation. She's like, yeah, okay, I guess. You should do that. That's a great idea. Overhearing you talking about bribing the governor and I'm just going to let you rock.

Then Hiram comes in. He's got secret sister on the case to say, oh, but we have everything you own tapped. Which, of course, Veronica, it's your fucking little speakeasy. You think this shit isn't tapped? And they're going to use it against a Veronica, but I'm assuming that they're holding

the mother hostage? Like, does that mean Hermione has to take jail? Oh, that's right. Hiram is going to run for mayor. Because the town has no mayor right now. But he is in jail. Which that's fun. I think a mayor in jail is fun.

But didn't this is, we've already, as we identified last week, Riverdale has a bit of a recycling plot lines problem. Hiram already ran for mayor. He's doing it again. And you know what? It must mean that he's going to get it. this time and I'm very excited to watch him do it because I need more Hiram Lodge. He is so overtly, sexily secret and I love him.

It's just so, he is, oh, mama me a fucking ogee pot. Get me a slice. He is definitely the number two daddy of the show for sure. Oh, FP went, oh my God, we'll get there. when FBI had that like real moment with Juggie about the death. Oh, oh, I did have, I had to pause it and go, oh my God, was that a real moment? It put my heart aflame. I think, I'm sure I've said this on the show before, but I got to say it again.

I'm not yet certain whether or not Skeet Oric could act his way out of a paper bag. He can't, but I think that his charm and he, his beauty make up for it, which isn't that the case in most of the actors in Riverdale? Yeah, that's true. None of them are, none of them are, you know, winning Emmys, I guess. No, and let's, speaking of never going to win an Emmy, we need to talk about Archie. So, uh, the good news is he still dressed like a fucking superhero, although somebody did tweet at us that this is like a deep cut reference.

to the comics, that those superhero characters existed in the world of the comics. And so that does make me appreciate it more. That gives me a smile. Yes, that is nice. Although I do think that there is this extra current world context, which, as you said,

is that every other show in the CW is a superhero show. And I just don't want Archie to be a superhero. But don't worry. The only place he's taken care of is in the shadows of Sketch Alley. you couldn't come up with just a job. Like at least a better name. So Archie has decided now that he is, of course, running a community center for children, even though he is technically a child himself.

And he was getting in the way with Artful. I keep calling him Artful Dodger, and I'm just going to continue calling him Artful Dodger because obviously Dodger is a nod towards the character, Artful Dodger. who is another bad man drug dealer that's now on the scene that wants to

take over all of the children of Riverdale and hates that Archie is now trying to help the children of Riverdale so what does FP say you should do like the other gang

the gangs you should do and you should make friends with the neighborhoods so that they side with you and not with the drug dealer but what does he do instead he holds a press conference where instead of making friends with the neighborhood, he threatens them because he's like, well, my mom's lawyer.

And my best friend's dad is the sheriff. So what are you going to do about it? Get fucked, you asshole. Yeah, that press conference was so, like, that was just Archie being like, I am so fucking corrupt. Try to come at me and I own the police. That's what he was essentially saying, which he also nobody, I mean, FP will maybe go to, FP will bail, you know, Archie out, but nobody's going to bat for fucking Archie. His mom's not even going to go to that bad for him.

He doesn't have any power. So for him to stand up there and be like, listen, if anybody comes from me, I own the law and I own the police and I cannot be all the kind. This is like Archie and Veronica have run, gone drunk on power. They've run wild. Two of them. God, the two of them deserve each other so much. If she ever lays a fucking finger on Reggie ever again.

Reggie's mine. Reggie's mine. She can't have him because Reggie's, you know, he's getting his other fingers put on him, which they also didn't bring up the whole child abuse section. They, this is what was odd to me, Molly. This episode left out so many of the other things that are going on right now. And I have to, we will talk about the. overarching themes of what I think is going on here.

Please. But there's got so, there's something, it has to mean something, right? Uh, it meaning the universe of Riverdale or the Archie plotline. That they don't talk to each other. Like, like all of them are following each of their separate plot lines. You didn't even see Archie and Veronica or Jughead and Betty in the same room at all this episode. Yeah, that's true.

We didn't even have like a, like a teacher. is like those scenes when they're all in like the student lounge and they're all like they kind of debrief each other on the absolute madness that they've been up to the only person who people who are talking to each other are betty and kevin and i'm sorry i'm not trying to jump ahead but i cannot wait so this may have been a boring episode but i will watch betty and the fbi i i i will watch betty and the fbii serial which seems to be just a class the fbi training class seems to just be a class where you look at pictures of serial killers and i could watch that shit all day long

I'm very excited to get into the discussion of what Jeff and I are calling Betty's murder vision. Because, man, because this is the best part about Riverdale, is that technically this is a boring episode. And it's just because the show is so bananas that all of the secret sister, mass vigilante, murder vision. Like, what am I talking about that this is boring? But we It is for Riverdale It is for Riverdale Because I think you're right

I think we need them all We need the four of them to come together And have their smooches And their parallel sexes And all the things that make it Because you know The balance of Riverdale is And admittedly

I don't think that it has struck this balance That it had in season one since But the balance is It's a teen It's a show about teens That spooky shit is happening to And I think that where season two and season three

have sometimes gone off the rails is that the spooky shit supersedes the teen drama part. Oh yeah. And what we want, what the people want is just as much teen drama as spooky shit. And I feel like this episode, this season was starting off really strong because

we had some good teen drama. We had the little sex in the next room from each other parties and we had the, you know, let's get back to our senior year kind of thing going on. Yeah, they all had their fuck in the same apartment party, which that's one of my favorite parties. Right. And so I feel like right now we're we've gone back on the season three path, which is insane, excessive plot lines for every character, but not like teen hanging out.

They haven't even been to pops lately. No, and they haven't. And so actually, a friend of ours, Ryan Lion 10 wrote in because I've been asking what everyone's theories are and what are the things. that they are noticing that we are not talking about and have not noticed, which I think that they might be on to something. So he got the vibe that somehow, that specifically Principal Honeypot,

whoever his benefactor is, are trying to separate the main characters. So he brought up, we already lost Josie, Moose left last episode, Juggies at prep school, Betty's working for the, like, junior FBI, Archie's over here doing his fucking,

you know, boys and girls, club thing and then Veronica's helping her parents try to get out of jail but also simultaneously stay in jail. So is there a reason of why, is it something that like are they building towards the fact that it's going to be their senior year and that they're all going to have to part ways? Or, which I like and I do want to expound upon once we get to the Jughead episode, the Jughead part of this episode, Kit Kat 98 also said to me, do you think of the flash forwards and Riverdale are a story Jughead is writing. That's what Gideon said.

That's so this, all right. Okay, guys. So now we got to get into the meat of this because we have to talk about Jughead over at Stonewall Prep and he is, you know, having his regular teen problems with everyone in the school. But also, who is brought in none other than Franklin P. P. Paxson, who is the author behind the beloved Baxter Brothers. mystery book series. Now Mr. Chipping,

who is the weird kind of sexy teacher that I think as is living under some sort of failed shadow for obviously nefarious reasons. He comes across and he says that he was one of the ghostwriters of the Baxter Brothers. So obviously Baxter Brothers is supposed to be like the

what is it, the Bostown Boys. What is it? Boxcar brothers. The Hardy Boys. Hardy Boys. Well, there's the box card children, but I think that these are the Hardi Boys. Because the other kind of fun thing is that now the CW has a Nancy Drew show. And I feel like the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew were like, you know, you know, sister brother stories of, yeah, of their era.

So now, so this was, I think, a big Hardy Boys homage. We have so much. So this is really, I feel like we've been sniffing along the right paint, Molly. Because we are now we are talking about granddaddies. We're talking about writing. I think that everyone's kind of on the same page of that, obviously, these flashflow, well, maybe not obviously. Actually, I will get into what Jeff thinks is happening. And I think, God damn it, you know what?

I love him and know me to say this, but he's very smart. And I really like where his theories are going with this. So there's ghostwriters for these books. They come in and apparently are using high school students to. to find new ghostwriters to write these books that have been out for generations. However, the original man, a man named Francis J. DuPont, because Francis P. Pax said, which so many F., so many P's, are involved in this pseudonym. So the original man is Francis J. DuPont, and he comes and he visits the class

when they're going to have a wine and cheese mixer for underage. Children. High schoolers. Two. There was no adults there. I was like, oh, a wine and cheese mixer. It was just for children. That they have wine and cheese, which I guess, you know, if you're rich, I think that the rules don't apply.

I saw the jinx. I understand how it goes. So they get to get smashed and hang out with the Baxter Brothers author. And so they all have the eligibility that they're all going to write in their own version of a Baxter Brothers story. and whoever gets picked will be the new ghostwriter of the season. Now, I know someone that was a ghost writer for, what is it? It's like the secret triangle or like one of those like teen witch books. And you have to work very hard to be a ghost writer.

And you have to work for a very long time and get absolutely no recognition to be a ghost writer. You don't really want to be. You're telling me it's not just an assignment in your high school English class with mysteriously only five other students. Surprisingly not. But Jughead is so psyched about this. And when he gets a chance to talk to Mr. Author, Mr. Author is like, oh, I knew an FP.

Wow, your FP's grandson. I think that FP, the original, FP the first, Forsyth, was the greatest writer I ever knew. And Drughead was like, I didn't know my grandpa was a writer. Because it's also after he saw the picture of his grandfather looked just like him in the yearbook from Stonewall Prep. And this is the same grandfather that went mysteriously missing. So now this dude shows up.

He says he doesn't remember anything about granddaddy FP, except for the fact that he's a rabble rouser and that he's a great writer. So I think that we can go ahead and assume, that this fuckhead bastard stole his grandfather's writing and sold the books under his name. You think the guy who came in, the beloved original writer,

you think he stole, that really FP was the author of all the books. Beloved, my fucking foot. That's what he is. He ain't fucking beloved. That's very good. I don't think I had actually put that all together, but I think that has to be it.

Right? Yeah, definitely. that's that's that's smart so we're very smart yeah well I know well this is Jeff and I having lots of discussion after this because again now watching Riverdale has become us watching it and then having we talk about it for about an hour and a half some say might be too long to talk about you know when I'm making dinner he's just stated there we're talking anyway right it doesn't matter what else are you going to talk about The couple that Riverdale is together stays together.

Thank you. See, Sam's. Uh-oh. So everyone, get your partners to watch it or else they're going to leave you. They're going to leave you tonight. It's not true. I know that it's not for everybody. So through all of this, Jughead had gone to FP, Daddy FP,

and said how excited he was that the author of The Faxor Brothers was going to be in there and that he loved those books as a kid and F.P. goes off the rails, his sexy rails, and has that deep moment of like, that apparently that it was the grandfather that was giving him these Baxter Boys books, and he wanted nothing to do with it, which is why he was ripping out the pages

of his grandfather sending little notes in it for him. So what does our little sexy detective do? He does a bit of a, what is it, rub, rub, rub, rub, rub. Right. Rub him up. He does one of those graphite rubs To see what With a little

Yeah Like a crayon right Yeah I just remember they used to do it on the wall For Vietnam I remember that Right Yes

So It reminds me of like in kindergarten One time we It's different But we We were invited to like Color a piece of paper With a bunch of different color crayons

And then we We painted black over it And then we could scrape off The black paint and make a cool design. Oh, that's cute. Wait, did you do with leaves? It's kind of the opposite.

It is technically, yes, the opposite. But we're supposed to do that with leaves, I feel like, to tell which leaf was which who leaf. Yeah, yeah. And this is actually what Jughead did with the scraping is incredibly a thing that I have seen done on forensic files. So you actually... Oh.

And I think they could... They basically do something kind of like it, but with chemicals to get the numbers off of, like, guns whose serial numbers have been scraped off. So I'm saying Riverdale is, you know, the more forensics it gets, the happier I am. And now the thing is that what did Granddaddy FP say? But in this sweet birthday message, he says, never let anyone tell you that you don't belong and to trust few. Which, okay, okay, okay. It's a perfect Riverdale happy birthday message.

It is just, but also it's like, we get it. He was trash. He comes into the school. No one likes him and treats him like trash. But of course, we have to remember that granddaddy disappeared. So something happened to granddaddy. And apparently he was around for a while, at least enough to send books through his childhood. That's the thing. It's unclear.

Do we know exactly when he disappeared? Because he didn't disappear as a high schooler, because unless he had FP as a high schooler, but even then, because FP has enough memories of being like, no, my. My dad was like this absent dad who like I, so it sounds like FP disappeared, FP the first, disappeared sometime in like young adulthood, but not high schoolness. I guess. And then, that or was it other granddaddy writer that was pretending to be granddaddy FP because he's a murderer?

Because he had been murdered. That's a good question. That is a big question. but then, so what Jeff has said, and God damn it, does he get extra kisses? Because I like where his fucking head is at. Is that it's, so in the end of all of this, their assignment is to write the story of the Baxter brothers and the perfect murder. And what if Jughead writes it, right?

He writes it, he sends it in, and they look. at him, they say, we're not going to accept you as the writer because there's no way that this is the perfect murder. So he sets it up so that the Riverdale kids, because I'm sure, of course, the writing all has to do with the main four. And they, he goes missing, quote, unquote, which is what all of the flash forwards are to the point. But only Jughead and the four of them have read the story so that when in the end of this episode, when Skeet Ulrich comes in, and says that all of them are under arrest for the murder of Jughead Jones, it's because they are trying to prove that what he wrote is the perfect murder.

Uh-huh. And that's why we see the four of them who are all in on it together at the end. Like, they're all, they would all be like, yeah, we'll help you, Judge. And it's like the flash forwards of what he wrote about. That's interesting. So I think our two options, our two most viable options are we're either seeing like a fictionalized basically version of the story he wrote or we are seeing them act out the story he wrote

to prove that it is a good story because he had been marginalized for who he is after he submitted the story. And then I also wrote down... It's a very good guess. What if Granddaddy FP starts leaving clues through the Baxter books that Jughead starts to rub down like Tom Riddle in Harry Potter,

which I know you're never a Harry Potter person, but all my peeps out there. What if it ends up going to be like a Tom Riddle type thing? And then he asks you like, he teaches him how to write this book. It would be fun if there is a series, if Jughead finds more and more and more messages from FP the first when he's doing rubs through his books.

I feel like that's like an alley-y-up. If they don't do that, somebody needs to get the Riverdale writers on the phone and be like, why are you setting us up this way? Someone get me in that writing room. Really, someone should get Jeff in the writing room, but man, I just speak so much louder than Jeff does. So I feel like I'll get heard first.

You know what I mean? So I like that a lot. I think that that, I think that Jughead's plot line is by far the most interesting because, you know, they set up Jughead as a writer in the very beginning. of the series. And then he kind of forgot about that because he was too busy dodging various. I guess he was a journalist through seasons one and two. But like I really like them bringing it back to mystery writing because that gets back to the kind of like pulpy feeling of season one that was so good. They are back, man. Because now you notice too, they've gotten back to Jughead

is opening every episode with his little writing monologue too, which that's when we fell in love with him in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I like that. a lot. I like how dramatic it is. I like how stylized it is. But what I don't like, but what I do like, but what I don't like, it's like a kombucha girl face, is everything going on with Betty Cooper right now. So you hate it, but I think that I hate it so much that I love it. That's, I think, me too. I loved her murder vision. Murder vision. Absolutely love it. But it's just so, I mean, the great news is that Dark Betty is back.

So I spent, before I fell asleep, I spent the majority of this episode singing, Whoa, Dark Betty. Whoa, Dad Betty. She has her own theme song, and she's back. And I love that they. I never want to rip anyone apart for how they speak, but does she, or does she not say the word caramel very weirdly? Uh, I remember her saying caramel a lot, but I don't remember how, did she say it like caramel

or did she say it like caramel? No, she says it fine. Like, she says it in like the way that, and that's a fine. But I feel like she says it as if she's sucking on a caramel. Like caramel. Like caramel. And I don't. Yeah, yeah.

I don't, and I really like her as, I like Lily Reinhardt as an actress. I think that she kills it. But there's just something about it that I was like, stop saying the cat's name like that. But I think I'm alone in this. I think she says like one out of ten words that way. Like sometimes she'll do that. She'll be like, Shughead. You know, like she's a little bit.

bit over pronounced. A little, yeah, a little bit mouthy, but she's just a goddamn beautiful, but also the mouthey bitch gets the grease. And the mouty bitch also gets into the junior FBI training class that she is now, I'm assuming, started with Charles. It seems that way and can't emphasize enough how much the class isn't like, you know,

here are the basics of the criminal justice system, what a trial is or what evidence is. It's just, it's, the class is just Charles, who, again, huge juries out on him and a bunch of kids and he's just showing them pictures, lineups three by three, of serial killers saying, guess which one's the serial killer? And wonderfully, they have not forgotten the plot point that I had completely forgotten from a season or two ago, which is that Betty has the serial killer jeans. The serial killer jeans, which apparently it is a semi-real real thing, but it thinks that

it is widely abused in this television show. So Betty has a serial killer jeans that also her father has, but also chick has, not chick, fuck, Charles. Charles was like, it's okay, I have them too. But hell is not Charles's father. Hell is not Charles's father. And that is a thing, Molly Neffle. Has or has not?

Alice Cooper killed two people? Alice Cooper killed... She killed the drug dealer. She killed Edgar Ever and Ever. She killed Edgar Ever and Ever. Like, in a cold-blooded way, in a calculated, rational, mothering way, of, well, now we have to deal with this.

Now we have to get rid of it. We have to clean it up. Uh-huh. Interesting. But is, is FP officially Charles' father? Did we learn that officially, or was it always just hinted at? I think, well, I mean, they definitely both refer, as boyfriend and girlfriend, refer to our half brother together. So. I know.

That's what, what, Jug was like, so how is our brother doing? And Gideon was like, wait, what? And I was like, you know, FP is Charles's father. And he was like, what? And that made me wonder whether that it ever actually happened or whether that was just a conversation we had. I think it's, no, it is, that is the truth. Which also we didn't even talk about it last week, but also how happy are we that Phallus is up and going again? Because I want to watch them make.

But I miss the serpents, Molly. I miss the fucking serpents. I miss them. I miss Alice Cooper putting on her bad girl serpent's outfit and having sex with a bad. girl daddy gangbanger. Yeah, I don't love the Jones's living in the Cooper's house with Betty

also. And also with Alice moving back in after getting out of a cult and now she just lives in the house that she raised a family with with a serial killer and she's fine with living there. Not only that, she seems to be

Bonin the Daddy and her daughter is Bonin the son. It's a little bit It's a little bit Brady Bunch, but murderist and incesty. It is. I know that technically none of them are related. But now the fact that they both have a shared brother in the mix. It's too much.

No one thinks about it for a second. Like just for a second should we think about it. You don't want to be having a conversation with the person you're boning and being like, oh, yeah, our brother. Our brother. It's wrong. So now Charles has a serial killer gene. And so the serial killer genes make them do things like not having a whole lot of outward emotions, but also killing animals from a young age.

So we see the flashback. Now, this was brought up a while ago that Betty possibly had drowned her cat caramel. Uh-huh. But in this we find out, man, when they showed the first flashback of young Betty smashing the cat to death with a rock, that was a little rough. I was like, exclase. That is, I think, worse than drowning. Can I say that?

Are we allowed to say that that's worse than drowning a cat? Yeah, I don't even want to, I don't even want my pretend Betty to be pretend smashing a pretend cat. No. I don't love her, and I didn't appreciate it. But then later on to the episode, flash to another flashback, in actuality, young Betty's Carmel got hit by a car and she was yowling and dying slowly. and Daddy Hal came up and said,

she's your cat, you have to take care of it, and made her kill the cat with hitting her in the cathead to death with a rock. Yeah, that was fucked up. Riverdell did a lot of fucked up things in its time, but that was a particularly fucked up scene. That was rough. That was a little, I was like, that is horrible.

And she's got all of the, like, the dietic, to know that this is actually what happened. But did we notice? Or unless they just didn't want to pay the dude that paid Howell Sparks to come back in for a day, they didn't show his face. They didn't. So what if it wasn't the father? What if it wasn't Hal that told her to kill the cat?

What if Charles was weirdly creepily in her life growing up, but she didn't really realize it? and he's a murderer too and Alice Cooper's a murderer and they all got murder jeans and not only does she have murder vision but she has 2020 murder vision she's got double murder vision

that is a theory I assume that they didn't show hell's face because he would have had to be like young Hal it could be that too it could definitely be that but I like your

I like I mean but Charles is got to be what like 10 years older than Betty is she though because they're like aren't the parents all supposed to be like 38? Yeah, that's right. That's right. Because we try to do this math after the Breakfast Club episode.

The math makes no sense. But it does if they all had kids right after high school, you know, which certainly isn't out of the question. So if they were all like 40, they could very well have, even if they were like 38, they could very well have kids this age. And which not, by the way, now that I have. have kids, I'm like totally sold on how great it would be to have had a kid when you're very young because then you get to be like done when you're in your late 30s.

And they're so hot. And really, that's when everyone is the hottest. You're not hot in your 20s. And if you are, I'm proud of you, but I wasn't hot in my 20s. You get better looking. I should have squirted one out when I was 14. Yeah. And then you just be done and in your prime and you're like, you're making.

in 30s. That's what I'm going to tell my future children. I say, get on it early. Start squirting them out. So if they, that's it. So if they're all 38, let's say, and the kids are all like 18, then Charles would still have to be like, right, only like 20 and an advanced FBI guy. Enough that he is able to create a whole wing in a school that is teaching young children how to also be serial killer identifists. I think that like, but she has had this murder revision the whole time, which I don't even know if I got into the fact that Betty could now look at any picture of a person that has murdered someone and say, yes, this person has murdered someone. They did not explain how. They did not explain why. It's just her instincts.

So the thing is that I would actually, I watched every single episode of the show profiler. If she was in the same room with them, I could see it. But she's looking at pictures of people that how can you look at it just, I know some people you can look at just a picture. But if you don't know the situation, you don't know what has happened. You don't know the circumstances of what they were brought in on. I know that Riverdale is ridiculous and I shouldn't question these things. But sometimes I do, okay? It's the jeans, Jackie.

It's her jeans. I forgot. They let her see it. She does have the jeans. Including when it's a trick question. And she's like, it's none of them. That's correct, Betty. I just, is Charles going to be a murderer

or is Alice Cooper going to come out as a murderer? One of them. I mean, we have such a gigantic question mark around Charles that he's not even really a character anymore. He's just a question mark. Because we saw him listening in on their phone call on Betty and Jokes phone call. Right?

Tap the house. Now Riverdale, I need everyone in Riverdale to know that everywhere you go, it's tapped. Everywhere. Trust no one, just like Forsyke the First said, you trust no one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Voice at the first was right. But also, creepy Principal Honey wasn't in this episode either.

Yeah, there was no Principal Honey and there was absolutely like zero Cheryl, right? Yeah, none's. Even though we were in the middle of trying to, with the doll and the seance and everything. We're in the middle of all that. So is this where the stories begin of that Jughead is writing? Or is it like, I don't know. I don't know. I think we're going to have to find out.

Yeah. The fact that they're not interacting with each other. The good thing about Riverdale is that there's always like 24 more episodes in a season. So it really could go anywhere. There's so much more. There's just so much more. That's why I love having these silly, silly theories. Thank you guys for hitting me up of anyone that had their theories.

What's going on? Please hit us up with more because we're just going to keep doing this. Now I think it's kind of fun because it has gotten back into more of a mystery style show that we can come up with dumb fuck mystery theories. Yeah. Yeah. The coming up with the theories is definitely the best part. And my brain has never been particularly good at that, even though I'm like someone who identifies as a writer.

I'm not somebody who watches TV shows and is like, here is my theory. And so it kickstarts my brain to hear the theories. And so they're very, very welcome, including yours and Jeff's, because, you know, I feel like I am somebody who just, like, sits and just lets the, lets my stories wash over me. And then afterwards, I'm like, I have zero predictions for what's about to happen next, especially because it's Riverdale and anything could happen. And anything can happen, especially when I had to pause during the game of murder because I didn't understand what the fuck was happening. And then Jeff explained to be something called Werewolf. Have you heard about this game? Oh, that scene made me so mad because, no, that game is called

Assassin or Mafia and it's not played like that at all. You have to shake hands. You don't wink. Winking doesn't make any sense because other people can see you wink. The way that it works is you walk around and you shake the person who's the killer. It's an elementary school game, not a high school game, by the way. But we play with elementary schoolers all the time. You walk around, one person's the murderer, and nobody knows who it is,

and they walk around and shake hands, and then you have to wait, like, like, five steps later. And then if you shake hand and you scratch their palm with your middle finger, then you've killed them. And then they have to take, like, five more steps, and then they have to die a big, dramatic death. Oh, that's creepy. Your goal is to figure out who is the killer.

But they did a completely bastardized version, like a half-ass. It may be so mad because that's, like, a total classic, like, camp game, you know, or, like, after-school game. See, I know nothing of this game because Jeff told me about the game that they used to play that was more of a words game where it was at, like, during the day the werewolf would walk among them. And so you had to, like, ask each other questions about themselves to try and find out which one is the werewolf. And then nighttime would go down and everyone would put their head down. And the werewolf would get up and tap two people and they would die.

and then the next morning they'd have to have a discussion to find out who's the werewolf before night falls again. So this is another, I've played that version too. What is that one called? That's called you get,

and then you get like a medic, there's a medic, there's a cop, and there's like, and then if you, whoever, you get to ask people, oh, who do you think was killed? I totally know that one too. But the one they were playing

is a different one. But also, I want to play these games. These sound like fun. I've never played any of these. They're super fun. This is why I love, working with elementary schoolers, but I was like outraged that they were getting the details of this game wrong. I'm sure people, different people play it differently, and it's regional probably,

and maybe you play this game and you wink. But the best version is you shake hands and then you use your middle finger to scratch because that way there's really no. And then the way that they played it, this didn't make any sense. He just winked at the guy at mean Brett and Brett was like, no, I'm not dying. And Brett was like, or Junkhead was like, you got to die. And I was like, this is not how the game works. You would both be disqualified. It didn't make any sense. And I understand they couldn't get into the whole thing of explaining it but like at least you like didn't make that's why I had to pause an ass yeah but oh now I got to remember the name of that one that jeff is describing because that game is also super fun please do because now I think I'm going to try and force

everyone at Thanksgiving to play it with me because I didn't have a good childhood apparently it's very fun you turn on the lights you say you got whoever is like the host can turn it into like a real fun murder mystery you're like the sun has risen but there's been another murder. Yeah, and it's like all dramatic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a fun game. See, I guess Jeff and his friends use it, maybe I'm speaking out of attorney here, but they used to play it when they would get drunk in their early

20s, because he's like, because it's the most fun of you get caught in your own lies, and then you have to try and explain back out of it, but as you're drinking more, it gets more and more difficult to stand by what you had said in the past because you forget what you had said.

It's like, oh, that's kind of fun too. But, you know, drinks make for smiles sometimes. Not all the time, just sometimes. I think that there are many a childhood game that could be repurposed as a drinking game and probably still be pretty fucking fun. Duck, duck goose. I'd probably get hurt. Cheese stands alone. I'm like, I'm not the cheese. I'm not the cheese. Red Rover. Red Rover. Just a recipe for a terrible injury. Just slamming into each other. And the last thing I do want to say about this episode is that if they call anything Tucci instead of Gucci again, I will kill myself.

I hate that they're, just call it Gucci. Call it Gucci, okay? Y'all got the money. You can say the word Tucci, but it's very funny that they come up with all this fucking dumb bullshit. And, oh, I also didn't bring up the fact that for some ungodly reason, that Archie, as a vigilante, also is deepening his voice for no way. reason. Yeah, it doesn't sound

normal. It doesn't sound not like him, but it also doesn't sound, at first I was like what are we meant to think is happening with this? Is he sick? I don't know. I don't. Has he scared? No, he's just deepening his voice. I don't

know. He's just, he's going to get shot. He's going up against all of these people that have guns. Yeah, no, but he's just running up to people in dark alities and being like, I said get out and they're like, Okay. This is a start. What does he say?

It's like, this is the start of a war. Something like, no, it's not. Fucking idiot. Oh, I'm going to shake him to death. We're not going to shake him to death. We're just going to keep watching the show.

And hopefully these things come true. And again, please hit us up. If you have any other, if you're listening to this, you're like, Molly and Jackie, why are you so dumb? You don't see this could happen. Yeah, right.

Because I love it. I really do. It makes my heart sing. I love y'all so much. and thank you for writing in. My name is Jackie Zabrowski, and we're going to be back because I'm going to guess a thousand more episodes of this season.

Yeah, my name is Molly Nuffel, and I need your theories because I'm too tired to come up with my own. That's what we are here for. We love you guys, and we'll talk to you next week. Me. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors,

you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the show, one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.