Page 7 - Riverdale Roundup Vol. 43: Tangerine Dream

Episode Date: December 18, 2019

Jackie and Molly watch "Chapter Sixty-Six: Tangerine" and they talk fugue states, mysterious phone calls and repeating plot lines.    Chicago, Pontiac and Milwaukee! Get your tickets for Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser LIVE!    This episode was made possible by listeners like you! Support us on our Patreon and get weekly bonus episodes, ad-free main episodes and more!   Intro song by Green Dreams Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Who let the dogs out? It's me. It's me. I'm Jackie the dog, Zabrowski. I was the one that was let out. And if you want to come see a dog in action, come out to the page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser live show in January. We're going to be in Chicago. We're going to be in Pontiac, Michigan. We're going to be in Milwaukee. So why don't you come out and join us? It's going to be a heck of a time. You can get your ticky-tickies at last podcast network.com.com slash P7 Live. I sure would like to meet you. I'll see you in January. to say is Tangerine. Tangerine. But I welcome, Molly. Welcome to talking about. It's just, you know, last week's episode, we talked about it. We talked about it.

It lost us a little bit. But we are back with a vengeance for Riverdale's season finale, or mid-season finale, episode 60s, chapter 60s? I'm fucking this up. It's called Tangerine. I'm just so excited to talk about it. it and I just, I'm mumble-bumble and open my words.

It's as if last week never happened. Virtually never happened, except don't you think that we're going to forget about Mrs. Burbles and Principal Honey's weird connection? I'll never forget about it. Unless the Riverdale writers have forgotten about it, which the jury's out, because not one thing that came up last week was mentioned. Not one. That is true, except as I was just saying that,

we can never forget Mrs. Burbel, hashtag never forget Riverdale. I realize, all right, we have this talk about, we have to talk about it straight away. So do we. We must discuss Betty. And the show kicks off that her sister, who yes, is in the Sisters of Quiet Mercy in the crazy hospital after being in the ever-never cult. There is footage, which we do not see, don't worry, of Polly being understead. some sort of fugue because a bitch got fugued and if they said fugued one more time in this episode. I was fused. I was fugged. I'm fuguing. She was fuging. She was fuging. She was fuging.

A bitch got fugged and she was under some sort of hypnosis and she mauled a nurse named Betty in the Quisters of Quartz. Why didn't they show us the footage of the mall? I really missed it. I think that it's great that of all of the things that they throw money at, things like not showing the mauling of a nurse and also using very poor special effect flames on Jason Blossom's body. I think it's like, why put the money into it? I think hopefully, I can only hope that they're putting the money into more ridiculous guest

stars in the future, right? Yes. I think that that's, I appreciate where they choose to cut corners. and they cut a lot of corners in this one. They really were trying to kind of wrap up a lot of bows that had been a dangling. And they tried to kind of, you know, sometimes they are like, oh, these themes

that we've been exploring for either all season or all series, like Dark Betty, let's wrap it up. Archie and his father, her savior complex. Let's wrap it up, you know, just wrap them all up. wrap it up. It said there's no need to wrap it on, but we're not going anywhere. We love Riverdale. I'm here for every single fucking episode. What are you talking about? You don't need to wrap anything up. I'll always be here. But the Betty plot line involved a combination of like therapy and time travel. It wasn't time travel, but it felt like it was time travel. Butterfly effect. I don't understand.

You know what? When you're in a fugue state, I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean. That doesn't mean. that you can go back in time and change what you've done in the past. I really appreciate that you also were confused by that because I was like, excuse me, is this supposed to have actually changed things or is this just like a, you know,

when you're like that therapy where they like treat you like a baby and it like rebirthed you and then you're like reborn. Oh yeah, like the Yoko Yoko Ono therapy or whatever. Yeah, like you're like get to be, have a babyhood that was like less traumatic. Yeah.

I'm in the womb. I'm in my womb. I'm in my womb. And Betty is out there trying. It's just trying to even explain what is going on with Betty right now. You know what I will say? Lily Reinhart is killing it. She is a wonderful actress. She is really working with the shit, weird shit that they are giving her. Yeah. And just knocking it out of the park. It's true. She really commits. And I'll say that about Jughead. and Betty, and I will not say it about Veronica, and I will not say it about Archie. That, like, the act... I'll say it about Cheryl, though. Yes.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The actress who plays Cheryl and Cole Spouse and Lily Reinhart are absolutely outacting everyone else by leaps and bounds. And it's true. They commit to the absolute dog shit that they are given, and they sell it, you know? Oh, do they?

Because now immediately the way that Polly had... dropped her essence before that she killed this nurse, I immediately thought hypnosis. And what happens right afterwards? There's a phone call. Dun, done, done. So Alice Cooper goes over to the phone and then she listens and then all of a sudden, bitch gets fuged. She goes over. She tries to kill Betty and all Betty had to do was snap her fingers and that everything was fine. And Alice Cooper had no idea what she had done or what had happened. My favorite line of the episode, what happened? Why am I holding a knife? Why am I holding a knife?

She's so fucking good. She's another one, though, and talk about beautiful schmaltz that it's everything that I want and more. Yeah, Alice Cooper can act circles around somebody, for example, say, Skeet Ulrich, but we love them both. How dare you? Which we will get back into. Serbent never sheds its skin. Oh, my God. I stood up and started humping the air.

when he came out in that fucking serpents jacket. But we will get to that. We got to keep talking about Betty. So she goes, it's just, she realizes immediately that people are being hypnotized through the phone and going into a few states

and trying to kill her. And then she goes, oh, she solves it. Immediately. Well, she was talking to Charles though, right? Yeah, but she really was like, it was like the only time I'm very bad, I'm like comically bad

at predicting plot lines. So Gideon and I'll be watching something. I'm thinking, I'll be like, ooh, I'll bet it'll turn out that she's the killer. And he'll be like, yeah, like, of course. Like, that's how I, that's how quickly I can process things. And so it happened, trying. I try. But like with Betty, it happened.

It was like the only time where I was like, I'll bet that it's the phone and a hypnosis. And then Betty was like, it's the phone and hypnosis. And it was like very satisfying to have solved at the same rate. Did you like chant your own name? I usually chant. And I go, yeah, me. Like when Abolita showed up I was just like

Fuck yeah All the grandparents are coming out To the woodwork I fucking knew it You did call that one I did call that one I don't God I'm also

I was very excited About the Penelopee I'm like I'm getting out of myself I'm getting a halal of that So she's talking to I think she's talking to Charles Or did she immediately Oh yeah no she immediately

figured out that Evelyn Ever and Ever Who oh yeah Because they found out That the calls were coming from What is it It's not Snap Scotch What is it? It's just like, shankshaw.

Shankshaw. The prison where Evelyn Ever and Ever is being kept, who is still, obviously, as we all remember, Edgar Evernever's daughter wife and number one fan. So she is trying to get, the explanation of this, I had to go back and watch again. So what she's doing is hypnotizing the people of Riverdale by saying,

Tangerine, Tangerine, Tangerine. And then they become Betty in an attempt to destroy Betty to kill Dark Betty. But it's not just Betty Cooper. It's just anyone named Betty. Because Polly Inectady's named Betty. But also, there's really a long game going on here because all of this work, all this groundwork for the hypnosis was laid. whilst Edgar was still alive. Or was it, Molly Neffle?

Was it? Was it? Was all of this plan hatched? Which I'm going to throw it out there. I'm going to say it is either being hatched by, is he FBI or is he not FBI secret brother Charles? Uh-huh. Or is it being, oh, I had another, oh, what was my other theory?

I had another theory. Cocksucker! Oh, I forgot my other theory! While you're thinking, I am going to put out there that I thought that she said that they did this all while they, well, Polly and Alice were still in their custody, you know, like back when they were still like they, but she was only there for a little bit. But, and it's, yeah, it's been a while. So she would have had to predict this episode that was going to like lay the groundwork for weeks later hypnotizing people for some reason to just target dark Betty who. seems to have no bearing on the life or death of actual Betty? That's what it is.

It's Mrs. Burbill. That's why I thought how last week's episode had nothing to do with this week's episode. What if she was using that time to learn more about them to be able to hypnotize them? Wow. That's... What if it's not just Betty that they're going to go after? Although technically, which we'll talk about, oh, the flash forward, quote, unquote, later on. But apparently that they...

There's still those fucking tapes. Yeah. Those VHS tapes. The VHS tapes. So that's got to be fit. So there must be some. Do you, so your theory is that the dark Betty hypnosis plan could be more widespread than just trying to get Alice and Polly to kill anyone named Betty. Because if you think about it, who has all of this surveillance shit in that town right now?

FBI, not FBI Charles. Yes. Yeah. He's definitely. And he's over there doing his weird FBI work. What is he working on? I don't know. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. He's definitely FBI, not FBI. And when he was like, oh, let's just do it now together. I was like, Betty, don't let him hypnotize you. No. But then that's a thing. So, and then she goes, oh, it doesn't work. And then later on was when she goes back and she sees baby Betty inside of her head

right before she kills who? Caramel. Caramel. Caramel. Because she says caramel weird. Carmel. Carmel? She overspeaks her.

That's one thing about Lily Reinhardt today. She's like jughead. You know, she's like. Yes, she has a lot of enunciation. Yeah. Which is good, I think, unless you are singing Saturday nights all right for fighting because we will get to that and I will scream about that in just a little bit. Saturday nights all right for fighting.

Saturday nights all right. It wasn't as bad as the Chicago as the All That Jazz. I'll never forgive Veronica for that all that jazz. I don't know. I don't know. I think it might be a greater offense. But just because it was like, oh, of course she'd sing Chicago. But Elton John, step off, bro.

You're not Elton John. So she sees, she realizes that when she was a child and she killed Kama, Well, the cat, by bludgeoning it to death with a rock, that is when Dark Betty was created. At her serial killer father's behest, mind you. And so that is when she became Dark Betty. So what she decided to, because apparently under hypnosis, you can also go back in time and change what you have done in the past. She goes back in time. And as she's about to kill Karma, she goes up to Baby Betty and takes the rock out of her hand and goes.

goes, go and play. And then the little girl goes, okay, and skips away. It's that easy. That's how you undo trauma, Jackie. You just go back in your head a la time travel. You're right. You talk to your young self. You'd make the most simple choice possible, and the serial killer father nowhere to be found,

the pressure he was putting on her. It all goes away. Just wipes away. And it's just all, it's just she just did it. And it's treated like a time travel issue, not like a therapy. So even if she could fugue her way back to her childhood and stop herself from killing the cat. Even though if you think about it, she's got the serial killer genes and that's in your DNA that's in your makeup. You can't change that.

Also, the whole story with Carmel was that it was hit by a car and dying. And so she was putting it out of its misery. The flashback, Carmel's not dying. Carmel's just sitting there. So that's, so, but she comes back to, and this is all in front of Charles, and she's like, well, dumb, dumb, dumb, guess I'm done, guess I'm cured, not dark anymore. And then she goes up into her bedroom. I'm so confused, Molly. She goes back up to her room.

And she stares in the mirror and she goes, tangerine, tangerine, tangerine. And then it cuts away. And then Alice Cooper hears, smash, smash, up in the bedroom. And she comes upstairs, and she opens up the door, and Lily Reinhardt's laying in bed, and she goes, Elizabeth, are you all right? Is anything wrong? And she goes, yep, nothing's wrong, nothing happened, and then it cuts over to the mirror, and the mirror is smashed.

So she thinks that she got rid of the dark Betty. I guess what they're saying is, what I really think happened. Butterfly effect, butterfly effect, she didn't kill the cat, and now Betty, if this is true, Betty is now only dark Betty. Oh. Right? She thought she was stopping dark Betty, but instead she was stopping good Betty. Because if you think about it, she was putting the cat out of its misery.

And no one ever wants to kill a cat, but it wasn't like she looked at the perfectly fine cat and was like, motherfucker, I'm going to kill you. The cat was dying. She put it out of its misery. Technically, that is a nice thing to do. If that is still true. if that is because it wasn't even meant I think that they need more script supervisors

you know it's like when they leave a Starbucks cup in the scene and like did they is it still true that the cat was because that cat was totally fine was it fine that cat was just sleeping I don't know I think so nobody said anything about all the cat's dying you know but maybe you're maybe

maybe Riverdale writers count on us to remember all of it even though they're not telling us you know because so we don't know yeah so so So something happened that wasn't therapeutic, but that was indeed time travel based that changed Betty's nature. And so, right.

So we don't know what it is. But she said, I was just going, wanted to make sure that Dark Betty is gone. She is. But then Betty has smashed the mirror. So I think that you're right. The only explanation is that Dark Betty has taken over. I'm going to assume, but now we have to wait month to find out. Now I'm very, very upset about it.

But I'm going to assume. And again, if you are listening this, please DM me, hit me up on Instagram. Let us know if you've got other thoughts of what you think is going to be happening with Dark Betty, possibly forever Dark Betty, and especially because of the flash forward, which may as well just say it. It is supposan. It's supposin. What is it, supposition?

That Betty is the one that kills Jughead in the future. Although, again, we all do think that this is just a Baxter Brothers overarching story. Yeah, but it definitely, during one of Betty's flashbacks, she's looking at her door and then she looks down and sees her hands covered in blood. And then at the end, with the flash forward, Archie's like, oh, Jughead's dead. And then he's like, oh, Betty, what did you do? And then Betty looks down at her bloody hands. and that's totally what I would ask my friend when I find my other friend dead

I would just look back and be like, what did you do? What did you do? But she did, if you notice, I believe that the rock that she had in her hand that she might be killing Jughead with in the future is the same rock that she killed the cat with. I'll bet that Charles gets inside of her brain like a time traveler.

Time traveling, time traveling, what is it, mentalist? Yeah, he's. He's a mentalist. He's a time traveling mentalist, which also brava. Did not see that coming if that is what it is. I just, I can't love it anymore. We do, we have to keep, now we got to move on to the others of whatever fucking else was going to happen in this episode. A lot happened in this episode.

We've got Jughead. So as you guys remember, he is vying to be the next ghostwriter of the Baxter brothers. He can't let go with the fact that his grandfather popped. possibly had the first story stolen from him. So what does he do? He goes to Charles. And he says, Charles, I want to find my grandfather. And he goes, whoa, he's just like in the woods.

Don't worry, he's just in the woods. And Charles goes, our grandfather, which again, it's so fucked up. And I don't even remember when we were explicitly told that they just, just slip that in that, unless I'm not remembering right, that we learned that FP is indeed Charles's dad. I guess they did make that explicit, but I'm always surprised by it. Again, I still don't think that it's true. I think that it's, I don't think that it is FP analysis kit.

But you know what? We have a lot of secrets about Charles that we are not aware of quite yet. So Charles goes out and finds Granddaddy Forsyth. Who's in the woods? And he lives in a trailer. And he tells him, oh boy, which I love that he also called him boy. I'm not just drunk and living in the woods, even though, yes, he is, and that sounds great. But he ran away because he'd actually paid Francis DuPont to take the first story.

It wasn't stolen from him. He didn't want it. He sold it for $5,000 and the bitterness and the regret that he felt for only selling it for $5,000. Now that it's worth millions ate him alive and drove him to drink until one day he went out for a pack of cigarettes. And he never came back. but then he ups and disappears. So here's my question. Was that even really Forsyth?

Or was that some sort of plan? Doubt it. I think it's a thousand percent of plan. I don't think there's any way that that was him. I want more proof. I want more proof that it's him. I want more. No way.

They go back because, which we will also get to, Skid Olrick, Papa Sheriff is in the hospital. So he goes to bring granddaddy to go talk to him. and he's nowhere to be found. Yeah, during, in the midst of all, this, uh, FP just got shot. It was fine. Don't worry, he's fine. Boy, don't you go out there and be a vigilante?

Bo? Boy. My favorite part in that plot is when he goes, uh, you're dead. He'll be shaking his head at us right now. Yeah, he would be. Because why are, FP? This is not the time for this. People in the alleyway.

It is not the time. for this. So now a Jughead is going to write the next, he's going to be the next ghost writer. He signed the paper to be the next ghost writer for the Baxter brothers. And we will see how that goes. But I'm going to go ahead and guess that he ends up writing about how all of his friends kill himself. But there's something wrong with that contract for sure because they were like, are you going to send the contract? Are you going to send the contract? Are you going to, don't, don't not sign the contract. That contract, he signed over his life or something, you know. It's like, did he read the contract? Isn't, why didn't he take it to fucking?

Molly Ringwald, who is a lawyer of all things law? Good question. Yeah, he has a lawyer in his immediate circle he could talk to. Yeah. And then in the end, she doesn't have a specialty. No, doesn't? She knows every facet of all law. And then in the end, which we had called and we had known about,

he is then inducted into the Quill and Scroll Society, which is the ultra-secret murderer society, that is at the Stonewall Prep School that Jughead goes to. And he had to, the initiation was just him smashing a skull with a rock. There was a lot of skull smashing in this. What was in the skull? I believe that it was the tie pin that the quill and scroll people all have. Why is he inducted?

Why was he brought in? He did nothing to get into it. Uh-huh, yeah. I thought it was just because he had been around for long enough. But you're right. He didn't do any hazing or anything. No, and why would they want him to be a part of it when they're all pissed off because he just got the ghostwriting position? Yeah, all of a sudden, they go from hating him for the entire time to being like, welcome to the club, drughead.

I hate them. I dislike the characters. I don't like them. Whatever his name, Brute and Uggo. I hate them. They're so, like, the boy, Brett is like so, you know, two-dimensional. like he's just so like, I'm a bad rich boy. And I know that Riverdale is full of underdeveloped characters,

but that character is uniquely underdeveloped. And then the woman, the girl is just literally just like a frown. She's like a walking frown who doesn't have any lines. And so I think they're- Have a smile. Yeah, they're not investing in the character development of those two in a way that makes that plotline kind of annoying. Yeah, and surprisingly enough, they are investing in KJ. Aipa's

line and I don't know why I just he's still a vangelante guys don't worry even though he said he wasn't going to be a vigilante anymore don't worry he's still out there vigilanteing and who does he get to help him daddy fp which daddy fp what are you doing you're a sheriff now so he goes to him and he's like please daddy fp please come and beat up these teenager adults with me which is very funny because Dodger's mother is definitely the same age as Dodger. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I wanted to like this more than usual because, right, Archie has the same plot every episode, this entire season, for some reason, every episode, same exact plot over

and over and over. Oh, but there's bad guys in town and I run a community center. Same exact plot. Like, it's like they just didn't write a new episode for him. They just keep running it. And but then, in this one, they brought in FP. And that's nice because FP is nice. and FP had decided with Alice that he was going to be a bad boy sheriff,

and we hadn't even seen that yet. So he's all, oh, he changed my shirt, and then he puts on his leather jacket, and it was totally great, and I liked all of that. But yet it is KJ. Epa, and it is Archie, and I just cannot deal with it anymore, how dumb this plot line is, and how Archie just keeps,

getting in trouble in the exact same way, which is to be like, I want to stop crime. And then he'll be like, oh, it seems that I've brought more crime upon myself by trying to stop it. Well, and now, and especially the fact that they keep adding on with the like,

but I am sad because my dad died. It's like, I know that is sad. And I know that that's a big issue that you have to unpack and deal with. But just like, you keep saying, it's like we know it. We know you are upset. Then maybe choose again.

Every day is a choice, Archie. You don't have to do this. And now you had like a new little crime fighter with you in this episode as FP came in to sexily fight alongside you. And then they go to Pops. And again, which I guess, sorry, I just am I'm being overcome right now. Because then it would make sense that if all of that was also maybe, maybe follow me here for a second if that was also included in the baxter brothers storyline of what

is happening in the book that it was something that was written based on real events kind of thing like because that almost same thing happened to him and his father archie and his father in season one or season two when luke perry got shot inside of pops and now again f p get shot inside of pops because of Archie's doing. Now, we, I feel like we struggle in this show because we don't know if maybe the writers just forgot that they did this because so much happens every episode. And also because Riverdale likes to do the same exact thing. We got brother not brother.

We got FBI not FBI. Happens happened twice. Now we've got specifically brother FBI, not brother FBI. And two different like drug. rings and or three different drug rings now yeah we've got endless amounts of orphans we've got daddy bad daddy good daddy you know it's just the same they just really it's like it's like it's like remittal amounts of orphans is trying to resolve a trauma that you just keep revisiting and let you know how like it just it just keeps doing the same shit over and over and over and i love it but and i love

I feel like this one might have a reason, though, right? Or am I crazy? You know, I just don't know because it seems like they're trying to give Archie this justification for how he's acting because he's like, oh, my dad died. But it is, again, it's... Which I get it. If one of my parents died that young and I was very close with them, I would be a fucking, I would be a mess. I would be a completely different person. So I understand that.

Of course. Archie has a million reasons to be blind with trauma. But the fact that he, that what doesn't make sense is this, is this his, like, I mean, I guess that he's done vigilante justice, not vigilante justice before, right? He had his fucking group of wrestlers or whatever be, like, so I guess. The red circle. Yeah. What I was going to say is Archie's, the fact that Archie's dad died doesn't have any connection to his obsession with stopping crime because he's kind of always had that. But yet now he's pretending.

that this is what his dad would want, when in fact, his dad wouldn't give a shit because his dad was just wanted Archie to like chill the fuck out. And also, can I just, I forgot because I'd written down this note, I was so angry when Molly Ringwald told Archie that Vic, the Andrews construction foreman, wanted to buy them out of the company, and Archie flipped out, like, no, no, he's not going to buy it. You know what, I should just fire him even for bringing it up. Who's running it? Archie? Are you running it?

Right. If you really want to avenge your father, like, I don't know, maybe, I don't care if you keep his company alive, and I don't know if he would either. But that was what he did. Your dad wasn't a fucking crime fighter. So why is your crime fighting life avenging your father? It's not. That or take the money and put it into the community center that you're building so that it can actually be a staple of the community and make it grow. So you can continue to help the orphans and not just beat up people. bullet sketch alley. Although, Jackie, I got to say, I just had a thought when you were going into this, like, what if it's all a story of the junkette is writing? And it's going to be so embarrassing if it's not even remotely that.

And if we have, like, completely overdeveloped this plot. But I also, I beg that we're off the mark. It's like, I love being hit in the fucking side of the head by Riverdale, because the things that they come up with, I get even more excited when, like, with the organ harvesting, with Edgar Everdever. What? Yeah. If you can bowl me over, please.

Yeah, that was a great pleasure. So now, so Archie, so now FB is in the hospital because he was helping out Archie. Now, of course Archie will never stop avenging whatever problem is inside of him. And I forgot, how did it end with Archie? That was it, right? Yeah, he went, well, he, first of all, also, though, props to Archie. for not being extremely re-triggered by a father figure getting shot in pops because if it was me, that would trigger. I'd have a complete meltdown.

It wasn't even mentioned. He didn't even mention when his father was almost killed in pops, but he just powered through that. In the same way. In the same way. But, you know, one might imagine he wouldn't even want to go there, but it appears to be the only restaurant in town. So. Yes, of course. But Archie's plotline ends with him almost beating Dodger to death. Yes, that's right.

Because I forgot. In front of the children. You promise. You promise. You never go back out there again. But of course he's not going to listen because there are no consequences. So he goes back out. Even though Dodger was a running tail out of town, just let him fucking run away.

But he didn't. He went and almost beat him to death. And you think that's not going to fucking come back to haunt you, you idiot. Yeah, he just keeps doing the same thing. every episode, which is like making Dodger mad and then being like, oh, Dodger's coming for me. And in this episode, he beat Dodger within an inch of his life and then looks over and sees all the kids watching and they're like, oh, Archie, which was for some reason upsetting for them, even though they also saw Archie be, you know, taken hostage and then kill them, almost kill

them with a turkey. Like, it shouldn't be a shock to those kids what Archie has been doing. He's been pretty fucking open about it. Yeah. And just because he has a, he's such a note, even with a black mask over his head, he's such a noticeable build. The fact, it's like, we know what he's doing. You are not trying, you're not being very skillful at covering your tracks, Archie.

Yeah. Yeah. Archie is also, this is such a, have you noticed how KJ. Appa always says the name of the character he's talking to in the same way? So, for example, if he'll be like, I need you not to do that, Eddie. I just want to talk about what happened, Betty. Like he always, he always delivers. Like he almost always forgets their name.

Yes. Is really how he says it. Yes, he finishes the sentence entirely. And then he'll be like, because I really knew this for my dad, chughead. Like he'll finish the sentence entirely, wait about one and a half seconds and then say the name. Oh, no. Now that you've said that I'm never going to unhear that, Molly. I'm sorry.

But it is like I needed to say it. I needed to tell someone. It's forever in my head. Well, that's the problem, though. I'm glad that you've also noticed and picked up with the fact that Lily Reinhardt over-enunciates. And so does Veronica as well. And honestly, it's probably a choice, especially with their over-the-top characters in the show. But sometimes.

And we got to talk about Veronica because now, dun, dun, done, done, she is going against her daddy's rum business. And who did she bring in? Abuelita. to get the recipe so that she can make the same rum. I also love that they're acting like rum as like a cookie recipe. She's like, oh, yeah, I got the recipe. I mean, I imagine you need a distillery to make rum. I think it's, I think there's a lot of conditions that affect how one makes the rum that even though Highroom is like, well, I, oh, my little, what does he call her?

Emita, what's it? His mom, I don't remember. I forget. I don't know. So then, I just always with Veronica. I'm sorry, I'm getting tongue-died because I'm so frustrated. Because Veronica always has to have an idea and then be like, Daddy, this is my idea. You could never stop me, even though I've told you every single step of my idea and how you can definitely come in and immediately stop me. And so not only did she do it, but she also brought it Abolita. So on top, of it, he knows that she has the recipe. Why did you tell him? It's so true. She's like, Daddy, you thought that you couldn't, that I couldn't stop you, but here is my plan to stop you. The only way you can stop it is by doing this. And he's like, oh, meha. And then he does it. She's like, Daddy. So of course, which we have to remember that that Hiram Lodge is the, almost self-imposed mayor of Riverdale who can do anything and stop surprisingly an underage girl from running a speakeasy from and stop her from selling liquor. Can I also lodge a

complaint about the way the writers deal with pop because pop is a simple man. So simple that he seems to have never noticed one fucking thing going on around him and I don't think it's okay. I think it's a bit of a trope And I'm not comfortable with it And he's like Oh, Veronica, I guess we're not going to be allowed To sell liquor anymore And he's like, oh, your dad wasn't raised right

And it's like, Pop, you've been here for every conversation People talk about all the murders they've committed Right in front of you. You are an old man, You've definitely got to understand what's going on here And you are treated like with the absolute simplicity of a child And I don't think it's okay. And on top of it,

forced to always have a paper hat on. That's also not there. And the fact that he has a paper hat on always makes everything he says sound that much simpler. And I'm saying I worked and had to wear a paper hat in many different jobs. There's something about how he's always written with such disrespect where it's just like, yes. Oh, pop. And I imagine they just like put a sheet over him at the end of the night and just like, he's going

go to sleep. Yes. He thinks it's nighttime. Yes. Pop is an extremely, is the most simple character of all of them and even more simple than Donna, is that her name? Brett's friend. What, Brett's, uh, cohort? I think so. Like, Pop, it would be so much more interesting if pop was like remotely an intelligent human being because he is the center of all of it, you know, like all of everything happens. Yeah. Like if cop was like a, you know, a functioning adult who could be like, yeah, it's interesting how your dad is doing this.

This is what I think. Instead, he's just like, oh, old Mr. Lodge. Unless he is paid to be a simpleton by Hiram Lodge, which I could see that's coming out sometime in the future of like, oh, he's always paid him to be like, I don't know. Maybe. That would be a long con. That would be like, oh, we're not just making like extremely, basically like race. this one-dimensional character, it's actually a long con.

I think that once they get caught for it, like if that is actually what they're doing, then the Riverdale writers have to like, backtrack, backtrack, backtrack, backtrack. And they're like, oh, no, no, no, no. This has been a plan the entire time. Yeah, yeah. Pop was always a double agent.

Don't you see? Oh, yeah, because that's another trope that they love to bring back around double agents. And then no, no, no, oh no, but she's not a double agent. She couldn't be. But then she is a double, double agent. like I'm very into double double agents well and and so so daddy and Veronica are in a true match of the shitty minds because she's like daddy don't do this it would be the only thing that would hurt me and then he's like oh I'll do it and then it's like oh daddy surprise that actually

ended up working for me like he invited the Columbia person to her speak easy and the Columbia person was like, sure, I'll come, I'll stay all night, and then I'll ask you to tell me your life story at what's got to be midnight or one in the morning in the empty club. Because obviously now Hiram Lodge is trying to destroy Veronica getting into college because she turned down Harvard, even though that's his alumni. And he is so upset about that. So when the Columbia woman comes and she's like, but I promise them a show, Daddy. And then she gets up on stage.

When she sings Saturday nights all right for fighting, and it goes over a montage of Archie Fighting Dodger in Sketch Alley. And this one, it's like, let Kevin sing it. I bet Kevin would have killed it because Kevin was on stage, not actually playing the piano. And I love that song. And it was just the way, it's a, I was like, I kept making the joke, oh, are we at a rock and roll show?

The tomfoolery on the stage of the rock and roll artist that is performing. Sing it with some feeling. Yeah, I can't. I love when Riverdale has musical numbers, juxtaposed to other scenes except for when it's all that jazz. And I love it when they have people sing, but I do not like it when they have only Veronica sing. It's the second time they've done it, and they need to stop.

Because I want Cheryl to be there. I want Josie. We need Josie. Yeah, you're right. It is Josie. It's Josie's absence, and they've tried to have Veronica pick up the Josie slack. And sorry, Veronica, it's not happening. Not happening, but it is happening.

And what's also happening is we were so, fucking, right? Except that I kind of wish that Cheryl Blossom was being gaslit by her girlfriend, Tony. But no. The supposed third. Third Blossom's sibling. Now that we know that she's not a chimera, chimera, chimera. She didn't absorb her third sibling. The doll doesn't have a spirit in it.

But whom was moving the doll around the house? Aha! What she decides to do is put a bunch of roach-killing, like roach-killer bombs in the house to smoke out none other. Then Penelope Blossom, her mother that was hiding within the walls, coming out to move the doll. was very satisfying.

I was like, oh, no, God, Cheryl's going to kill herself. And then she was smoking out. Penelope. And that was very, like, Cheryl's plotline has not disappointed, except that it took a turn for the extremely heavy when she, like, started to, like, mourn Jason in earnest again for the first time since season one. And I had really been enjoying the, like, dragging his corpse around. It wasn't that heavy.

And then the end of this episode, they were like, let's have this devastating, funeral for Jason. Like Viking funeral that they had. It was a bit of a tone ship. But not, of course, this was after she put her own mother, I just, so before Cheryl and her girlfriend Tony and her, the corpse of her dead son and a doll, Penelope Blossom was put on trial, just like the queen of hearts was put on trial. And essentially she wanted to see if she was a bad mother. Is that what she put her on trial? There was essentially, it was a bit lazy because she was like, I'm going to put you on trial for everything you've done since season one.

Like, she threw in that not only did she try to kill her four friends, but that she also killed Clifford, which I didn't remember that that had been established, but I guess I trust it. I mean, it makes sense. She killed Claudius. We did know that she's a poisoner, chronic poisoner. But, yeah, it was a bit, it was a bit. bit lazy. It was like a, it was like an unsatisfying trial because only the, the, uh, what's it called? The, uh, Fistel House residents were there. And it was like a scene. I would have enjoyed

a whole episode of a Penelope Blossom trial. I would have watched an entire episode of Cheryl chewed up the scenery and ripping her mother to shreds, mumsy, if you will. And she didn't, unfortunately, there's no off with her head, which I really, I was hoping. I was just like, please cut off her head. Please cut off her head at the end of this because I would love to do watch it. Yeah, that's a best opportunity. But then Penelope Blossom would be gone and that would make me sad. I'm glad she's not gone and you did absolutely call that she was coming back and that she was the guest later, although it would have been fun if it was Tony for no reason. I know. But now where does Penelope? She's found guilty for being a bad mother. So where does Penelope Blossom go?

After living in the walls of this house, she is now stuck in. in the cell that is season three's sex bunker. The G&G sex bunker extraordinaire, but don't worry. She might be trapped down there, but she's got lots of lit candles. And why is she even trapped down there? The kids can get up and down it. Why can't she? Is she tied up?

Maybe she's going to like, maybe if you close the door, you can't, because if you, I think that the door was always open. Like I think it's one of those like, you have to open up. And so it was always open, I'm assuming. so now she's going to use it like a, some sort of forest prison cell, but what do you think she's going to do with her mother? Yeah.

Good question. Maybe she'll try to avenge... Because I'm scared. Everybody? Maybe I would love an episode that kind of just reminds us what happened because I don't remember why she... And why she's so upset? Yeah, when did she kill Clifford? I mean, I remember

that Clifford died, but there a lot that could be a bit refreshed with like a penelope torture episode or something, you know. I would love that. And I think that hopefully that's where, I mean, not hopefully, it's where it's going to go. Because I'm also scared that she's going to escape and then either get Cheryl committed again to the sisters of quiet mercy. But, or she's going to, like, I'm worried she's going to escape in something bad. Maybe she's the one who kills Jughead. No, I think that we can know.

Because she tried to do it last time. Why not this time? You know, season three, not season three. Right. Oh, my God, season three, not season three. You see, that's the worst part is that of all of this is, all of it is written. And they try to do one of those, like, washing away of everything that happens in this season. Does that mean they go back, which would make sense because it would give them a whole other year before they have to go to college?

Uh-huh. But I would be sad about it. But I would be pretty sad about everything. Uh-huh. But it scares me. And I do think, I mean, I think that Charles is evil, and I don't know what. he's going to do, but we, I'm sorry, I was just remembering that he also is in cahoots with Chick-that's also in Shanksha. Oh, God, I forgot about that. Oh, yeah, baby. Holy shit.

I totally forgot that he and Chick are lovers. Fake brother and not fake brother, possibly not fake brother. Fake, fake, possibly fake, right? Definitely fake brother. Chick is definitely not, definitely fake brother and probably fake brother. What a team. What a sexual dynamic they've got. Well, I think that this is what we've got for Riverdale Roundup today. I love it. I'm so sad.

We have to wait an entire month to find out what's going to happen. I mean, we're going to blink it. It's going to be here, and that's going to be fine. But I just want to say Mazel to the Riverdale riders because they're doing a really great job. And I think that this is the season. They are. I hear y'all out there that lost your way. like the lamely, like Mariah Carey's lamely.

And sometimes you got to get put back in the pen. I say come back on board to Riverdale. If you jumped off, season four, just jump back in. Yeah, I agree. The Riverdale writers are doing the Lord's work. And even though there are some outliers, like Archie, there are also some very satisfying things going on, specifically with Betty, Jughead, and Cheryl.

Oh, my God. It's like, you know, good morning only to Jughead Betty and. Cheryl, but come for that, you know, because it really is very, very good. And also, and just. Oh, and for the reminder of how F.P.'s arms look in the serpent jacket. Yes, that's right. Come for Cheryl, Betty, and Jughead stay for FP and leave for Archie and Veronica. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just get past those parts, Daddy! I'm going to start to say, I'm going to go home for Christmas and I'm just going to be like, Daddy to my father. He's not going to understand. He's going to think that there's something wrong with him. me like, were you a high or something? Yes, Daddy. You were never one of those Queens families. If you notice how a lot of New York City families specifically Queens and Long Island people, even when they're grownups, they call dad daddy. Oh yes, for sure. Yeah, I'll go, I'll be like

an island girl again. We always said like, if you're like, we grew up in Queens, but the girls out on the island would call their father's daddy. And it's like, oh, you must be from out of the island if you call your dad, that or Jersey. Yeah. Yeah. It's a thing like, grow, like, like a 35-year-old person. Yes, I know a lot of people call their father's daddy and that it is not a sexual connotation. But you know with me, I have never, ever, ever, ever called my father, daddy.

Ever. Yeah, I actually think it's cute when I hear it. Very much, yeah. When I hear it in real life, it is cute. But, right, I can't imagine you calling your dad daddy. Not with the amount that I use it as a sexual connotation. I think that I need a lot more therapy than I'm all, already currently in.

We love you guys. We'll talk to you in a month then for Riverdale Roundup. And if you're not caught up, get caught up. We got time. We've got a month. Let's join together and fight the evils whatever may come. Hypnosis. Yeah.

Spend your holidays with the Riverdale festive murderings and darkness because you got to watch something. You got to watch some. And always remember, Tangerie. Tangerine. Tangerine. We love you guys and we'll talk to you soon. May. Bye. Guess what? Fans of the last podcast network. The story must be told. Just got a Patreon. Patreon.com slash TSMBT.

That's right. Pay for access to brand new, world-changing, state-of-the-art religious truths that exist solely behind a paywall. The story must be told. release free stories every other week. They're scary, funny, gross, weirdly sentimental. But now we can separate our listeners based on income. Everyone gets the story must be told for free. But if you subscribe, you get the 522 Club, a podcast, where we just chit-chat the story and all its truths.

Like, what fluid will the church of the story ban next? Maybe nut milk, maybe vape juice, maybe blood. You'll have to give us your mom. money to find out. Head to patreon.com slash tsmbt to subscribe for bonus content or listen to The Story Must Be Told for free every other week on your favorite podcast app. The story must be told. This show is made possible by listeners like you.

Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.