Page 7 - Second Helpings - The Enemy Is Man

Episode Date: September 18, 2026

This week on 'Second Helpings' we've got a whooole heapin' helpin' of EMMY'S GOSS'! Includin' how H A W T Matthew Rhys and Keri Russell were (even if he DIDN'T thank her during his acceptance speeches), Mariska Hargitay looked like she went up there and had a lotta fun, John Mulaney got CENSORED, Taytay and Mariska Hargitay did a SKIT with the true star! There was a bit o' Buffy reunion on stage, and we got an announcement about our Buffy Watchalong! Then Ina Garten has announced to everyone (including Jeffrey) that she's got a new podcast happenin' directly from their home! And 'Secret Lives of Mormon Wives' is BACK to leave a bad taste in all our mouths! PLUS SO MUCH MORE!!!!Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

even better because that is the second time we've done the intro. Welcome to second helpings everybody. My name is Jackie Zabrowski. And I'm MJ. The story of the week was Mama Gaga, but your second helping of the week is the Emmys. Ooh, is it?

And I know that we are going to be talking about different sections of the Emmys, but guys, can we just, I'm jumping right in, out the gate. Matthew Rees, do anything. to me. I'm sorry, MJ, that I ever was like, why am I not wanting to suck all along? I mean,

I just, I even want to suck the sweat off of his nose if given the opportunity. And I don't think he's given it because, man, Gary Russell, who? I wouldn't get it. I wouldn't get it away. My God, Matthew Reese and Carrie Russell at the Emmys, everyone. I also want to do a quick shout out to listener and a friend of the show, Nina Bobino, who sent me the video, of Matthew Reese talking about whales. Just explaining, we're not part of England. Here are some of our famous dishes. You know, here's how to read our road signs.

And it's a delay. Oh, I thought you meant the animal. I was like, why does he know so much about whales? No, you once again, we have, you have forgotten that he is the most iconic Welshman in history. But more importantly, he and Carrie Russell were just so. hot at the Emmys and everyone's they're so in love with each other and the first thing everybody started ch-jap-jap it about was after he won was oh my gosh they must be on the rocks because

he did not thank her during his acceptance speech oh did they see that interview before the emmys began you were so right mj mj was like you have to just see the way he slurps her up and down like she's a spaghetti noodle and you were correct slucked the butter right off that noodle. It's a red carpet interview where the red carpet interviewer is complimenting Carrie Russell's breathtaking dress. Like you should. Very, very backless.

And she's just like, you know, Matthew Reese, can you believe that you're married to this person? And he's like, I know, right? And he was like, I pinched myself and her. And while I am still adjusting to the accent, it is. So he just, if you just look at his eyes, take it in his high. hot wife, who he's been with for a very long time and who he raises. They have one child together and also he raises her two kids from previous marriage to. Whenever they talk about their life.

He's the dad that stepped up as well. He is the dad who's stepped up. Whenever they talk about their life, they're talking about the kids and how much fun they have. And then he's just like, looking at his wife, like he wants to take her down right onto that red carpet. Oh, yes, please. You know, I've never looked at my back and said, wow, you know, I will say full confession. For me as well. It's never like, look at my back, please. Like, I think it's more, like, the only time I think my husband would ever like peruse my back as if I'm like, did that mold change? Can you like check that out?

Because I'm not saying, like, I get it. Don't worry. I mean, my husband and I are very, very, very brutally attracted to each other. I just specifically thought that Matthew Reeves like, look down, of course, you're looking down in her ass. I just specifically was thinking, wow, never in my wildest dreams. I think, could I or would I ever wear a full backless dress? And I love that for everybody else that is living backless life, you know?

Yeah, and just he just looks at her back like it is the best thing he's ever seen. I admire this level of sizzling, steaming attraction in a marriage or in a partnership. But also, in terms of the chitter, chitter, shitter, shatter, why didn't he thank her? Slot them all. Slot them all. Mind your own business, people. But also, then when he was asked after when he had won, so obviously he did very well, he had a great night. But when he was asked after the show in another interview, where do you keep your Emmys?

and he's joking around, oh, keep it in the bathroom so everybody can pose with it. But then they're like, no, for real, where do you keep your previous Emmy? And he's like, I keep it in the basement. And they kind of laugh. They're like, what?

And he's like, I'm going to keep it in the basement until Carrie gets hers and then we're going to put them all up on the main floor. Isn't that nice? Because she's, poor Carrie Russell is 0 for eight at the Emmy. She lost for eight. Eight, eight nominations. And he won for the Americans,

which obviously, is very well deserved, but she, I can't believe she never won for the Americans. And I haven't seen The Diplomat when I see ads for it. It looks fun. But she's just, she's incredible. And I feel sad for her that she's over eight, but I feel happy for the Chiefs married to a man who loves her back and keeps his Emmy in the basement for her. Although I would never, I think, even be paid to watch The Diplomat. You said the name the diplomat. And I fell asleep as you were saying the name of the show. And I'm sorry, Carrie Russell. I'm sure. sure it's good. Like I know, I know, I'm sure it is. I'm sure that it is. Yeah, that was,

I'm, I'm not running to watch it, but I see it and I'm like, I'm fun. You know what it is, MJ? Matthew Reeves smiles with his eyes and it is, I specifically like, zoned in on I am, not only am I attracted to Matthew Reeves and Carrie Russell, but I'm specifically attracted to Matthew Reese's eyes when he's smile. Like, when he was looking down at her and like his eye, I was just like, I know. You're so right. It is his eyes, which is also why he's like aging like a fine wine and he's just getting hotter and hotter as he gets older.

Also, again, if this, what is it, 14 Emmys that it won. If this doesn't convince you to watch Widows Bay, I don't know why. But will, it is. And also, I do get it if you're like, I'm not into horror. I'm not into laughing ever. I understand and I feel bad for you. I don't like fun, creative things. I don't like it when people make really interesting choices.

I guess. And if you're one of those, then yeah, you're not going to like Widows Bay. But like, I mean, for Gadeo Flint, at least, you know, I mean, and Matthew, Matthew Reeves, but like, for the Patricia's out there, Patricia won for the Patricia's out there, okay? And she's been a character actress for 100 million years. And now she's finally getting her due as well. And for Stephen Root.

And also, for speaking of finally getting their due, just a quick shout out to the creator of the show, Katie DiPold, who I know she has been a writer on many things, many great things, including Parks and Rec. But for anybody who was on Twitter or probably Tomber, like old fun internet back when the, internet was really fun. There was this very, very popular meme of a picture that she posted where she said, TBT. She's dressed as the Babadu. It's a picture of her dressed as the Babadook sitting at

like a dinner party and it says TBT to Halloween when I dressed as the Babadook, but my friend's house had more of a grown-ups drinking wine vibe and it's just like a nice dinner party. Full Babaduke makeup. And I'm just sitting there. She should remember that meme. I remember this picture. I've been laughing about this picture for like 15 years. Everyone, I feel like everyone universally agrees that this picture of this woman as dressed as the Babadook at like a nice adult Halloween party is one of the funniest things that's ever happened. And that's the creator of Widows Bay.

And I had not put those two things together. Oh, yeah. Dude. And she's so fun. Like that's why it was such an effective comedy. And this is, again, coming from somebody that doesn't usually love the horror comedy genre. It's not, but that's what I loved so much about it is that it was a funny drama. I know it was, like, I guess that you make, you call those dromedes, but it was, but except it wasn't a dromody.

That's the thing. There's no. Like I, like, it was, it wasn't a dramedy. It's, it's so hard to find the words to do Widows Bay just. because again, when I told Gidea in horror comedy, he was like, you know, scary, scary movie. Like, it's very hard to summon what a horror comedy would be that you would enjoy. And it is just a show that is very scary and so funny. And it's really, it's, I don't think there's anything else that you can really compare it to.

and the fact that it got recognized, like, you know, and validated as like this truly is an outstanding piece of television is I'm just so happy for them. I'm so happy for them. And I know that really, man, there's so much good stuff on Apple TV. And I'm not being like, poor Apple, because that's the last thing I would ever say. But it is crazy how much great stuff is getting big. buried on Apple TV and like really, really. It is crazy to me that I heard really nothing about Margo's got money troubles and I really enjoyed it. Like there's so, and I know that there are many other and then I'll hear and I do this for a living and I'll be talking to a friend.

They're like, oh, I'm watching X, Y and Z on Apple TV and I'm just like, what are you talking about? And I'm looking at Apple TV and I don't know what the hell you're talking about. So this stuff is really getting, we're just producing so much content that people just can't absorb all of it. I think it's that. It's like, yeah, it's the glut of content. And also, I mean, I just today, because I signed up for a free trial of a thing that I was ambitiously, I was ambitiously hoping that would help me take the thousands of pictures I have of my beautiful children and put them into photo albums because it's going to take. me, it's going to take me 10 years and I just want them to be on paper

not on the phone and so I joined this fucking app for a free trial. To make an actual photo book. Yeah, it's like it's just a photo, but it's just supposed to help you like go through whatever. It's not and I'm ignoring it and I need to cancel the thing. So I went to I'm... You need to make

a note to cancel that MJ or you're going to end up paying for it and you're going to be really, really upset. Well, this is what happened this morning. I was like I should just cancel it now because I got like a three-month free trial and I was like, oh, I'll use those three months to do all my pictures, my eight years of pictures of my children. No, I've done nothing. Bro, you are already in the quick sand, okay? I'm sorry, you're trapped. I know. I train you. I can't get you. But then I go to my little Apple subscriptions because I had signed up through Apple and I was like, oh, let's see what other Apple subscriptions I have that maybe I can cancel. And it's Apple TV is $15 a month. And then. And I was like, what? And immediately I was like, I should cancel Apple TV. And then I was like, no, I really can't because that is where a lot of the good shows are. Like the good, like I feel like I'm maybe I'm talking out of my ass here.

But when I think about what Netflix is now. Don't actually, though, that nobody likes it when you actually do because then you can't talk into the microphone. I tried this over on Romanticy. And then you're talking with your butt and you're not using your mouth on the microphone. It's very Ace Venture, a pet detective, which is a movie that we can't reference anymore. No, but I was like. You can reference the butt talking, though. The butt talking isn't about anything.

That's not transphobic. But no, I was just thinking when I think about like what Netflix is known for at this point, and especially when I talk to my filmmaker, documentarian friend, Netflix is really just known for like salacious true crime documentaries and sexy reality shows. And I'm sure that there's... Problematically, yeah, problematically sexy reality shows. Yeah. Like increasingly fucked up romantic reality shows.

And I'm sure that there are. are plenty of very good narrative shows being made on Netflix and everything. But I think that Netflix is just so entrenched that people are more likely to get rid of Apple TV if they're trying to save, you know, we all have a million subscriptions, obviously. And I feel like Apple TV is kind of the first one to go. But actually, that's where, right. Original content. Like, they are making new stuff with new stories that, you know, it's not just the same rehashing.

And a lot of people were telling me to watch, oh, I'm going to screw it up now. The new Josh Hartnett. Oh, I saw ads for this. Yes, what is it? Below. That's what it's called. It's called Below.

And I have been told by a couple of people that I enjoy to watch it, but then I watched the trailer for it. And I was just like, I'm asleep. I'm asleep. But maybe it also could be that the trailer is just no good. So let me know is the trailer just no good because I do the problem is especially with Netflix. I'm just like, ah, I don't think I trust you with your movies. Yeah, I think that Netflix is really in terms of, and I unfortunately do like that type of true crime schlock, slop, whatever.

And so I'm like, sure, give me the pastor's wife. Oh, what a bad pastor he was. you know, but like I, it's, I don't, it has, it remains like the cultural mainstay despite, I think, no longer being, you know, it was what gave us House of Cards and everything. Like, there was a while it was really doing, like, doing very new things with TV. And now I think you're right. And now they had to really get rid of House of Cards. They really had to be like, you know, let's just put this over to the side. Don't even mention House of Cards.

Yikes. But yeah, I'm just, I am so happy for Widows Bay, Pluribus was also Apple TV. and Pluribus won. And Reyes Seahorn won for Plurb, dude. She's, she's, she was so good. She's fantastic. A lot of, a lot of great, it was good. It was, I know that now we know that Noah Wiley is a dirty doggy, but, and maybe he's

eaten out his wife, though. And we're going to find out if he is right after this ad. So yes, props to the camera, people at the golden, at the, at the, not the gold gloves, the Emmys. Props to the camera people who, well, John Mullaney, who of course was absolutely hilarious, presenting best male actor in a drama. Honestly, everybody, if you did not watch the Emmys

and really don't care at all, but if you like John Malaney, look up John Malaney Emmys because it's just two and a half minutes of John Mullaney being very, very funny, especially after, I love Mariska Hart. Can I just say it?

I will say I love her. I think she's wonderful. She seems like she's a wonderful person. Seems like she's great. I know she's great on order. Why was she hosting the Emmys? Why was she hosting the Emmys? Get John Mullady.

That two and a half minutes was genuinely so, like it's just, and it was all like his whole bit was like he was doing the, it was lead, leading man, right? Lead actor and a drama. Yeah. And his whole thing was like, because men haven't had enough, all right? Men have been kept down for a long time. And it's just very...

Men have been underrepresented. Yeah, and then he makes a joke about... He references, DJ Khalid said that real men don't eat pussy. Don't go down. Well, he didn't say that. He said go down on their wives. Don't go down on their wives. And then it immediately cuts to Noah Wiley and his wife being very canoodily with each other.

And then also, again, the hugest small. on Sterling K. Brown's face and Mark Ruffalo's face. If you think I didn't clock that, clocked it, clocked it, because the whole joke was then like talking about how it was like, what you don't understand is you got to do that first. And then it takes a lot of the pressure off the rest of it. You know, it's like they were making jokes about like being pro, eating out your wife.

And so that's why I was like, okay, okay. Wow, I didn't know that these men could get even hotter. But I'll take it. I know. And Noah Wiley is in the long list of people who I have discussed liking on this show and then receive messages about what a baddie he is. However, there is a 30-year loin stirring in me for him from ER that's obviously still there. And so seeing him be just so happy to be a proud, proud going down on his wifer, it was a fun moment. I was happy for them.

And, you know, the pit is great. And season two was great. and I'm glad they won. But really, I feel like Widows Bay won the night. And you know, Jackie, I'm glad that you brought up the Mershka Hargerté thing because I, and I know that I can't say her name correctly, I just, I thought that the little thing that she did,

do you see the thing she did with Taylor Swift, the like Law & Norrisbee. Yeah. Yes, because they are, because they are. And I get it. And they are. And she is. And it is.

It's fun. And they were. And they did it. It feels a little between Mariska's, friendship with Jalen Brunson and Taylor Swift. It feels a little like her being like, no, no, no, no, I am cool. I swear I'm cool. And we're all like, no, we know.

We know. You're right. And it was also this like, I am a part of the sidegeist. Again, we know. We know. You're a household mate. We know who you are. And I also loved the documentary about her mom.

My mom, Jane, was it. I talked about it on the show. I really liked that documentary. It gave me much more insight into Mariska. Hargaté as a person because of course she is only known as being Olivia Benson and she did have a very good joke where she was like

you know she made a joke of like oh some shows here are celebrating their series finale finale what's that word I don't know I've just never experienced it because she's never experience a series finale it's never gonna stop but I do wonder

if she signed a death of career contract I wonder if she gave her life to Olivia Benson. And I wonder if they do that with a television show like that, because I know that kind of stuff happens, like with flow, with the insurance. With ads, right? You know, it's like ads and things like that because then you are, your image is then cemented with the, so I wonder if, I wonder if you could, but at the same time, it would be so difficult to see her as anything but Olivia Benson at this point. I know. And it hasn't been a problem for Christopher Maloney, but I mean,

I mean, he's certainly known, I think, primarily as Elliott Stabler, but maybe because of Wet Hot American Summer and the other stuff that he's done. Yes, because he's also, I think what is so, like, I think why people immediately think about that with him is because it's such the antithesis of Elliot Stabler in the show, you know what I mean? Because like the chef in Wet Hot American Summer. And then you see that and you're like, that's the same guy. And then you're just like, oh my God, that's the same guy.

And you really lose yourself. I think I'm happy. I think that honestly, I feel like that what Mariska Hargitay has done very well is like make herself in on the joke. I think for a while it was like, wow, Law & Order SVU has gone on too long. And this is actually, this is kind of frowned upon. And I think that what that has, and now we've come full circle where it's now gone on so long that it's like, heroic of her to still be on it. And again, she is, and I'm not saying she's not cool. And she's a great performer, but I, the, the Taylor thing, it did feel, it's like, it's, listen, I recognize

little signs of needing to prove yourself. And I do kind of feel like inviting your very famous friend to do a little bit with you. But at the same time, everybody loves the law and order thing. And everyone loves a murder board. And I do think Taylor Swift is funny. Taylor Swift has good comedic timing for sure. I think that also we do, which we always do need to do, we're so often watching women rip each other apart that it is just nice to see that like Taylor Swift came to go do this bit with her. I mean, obviously it's on the Emmys. So it's not like, oh, she's stepping down to do it. But like she doesn't have to do something like that. And she did that to like come and support and help her friend and like do a funny bit. And that's the kind of thing that I like to see. It's part of the

reason why I truly feel like even just the PR for all the practical magic two stuff that it is working so well because they're really showcasing and highlighting the friendship between Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman in real life. And that I feel like is, I mean, besides the fact that everybody loves practical magic, but I know that practical magic too is receiving middling reviews right now. But I do feel that their PR circle, for it and their friendship has made me as someone that is, was already excited to see it, has made me even more excited to see it because I'm like, man, their friendship lasted. And that's really awesome. Totally. And I do think that we need, yeah, I totally agree with you. And I actually

do think that Mariska and Taylor's friendship is very cute. And they made a reference in the bit of like Taylor like had a cat and she, you know, Taylor has a cat named Olivia Benson. In real life. for those of you guys, like, if you guys remembered this section of their friendships, like she was a huge fan of Mariska Hargatee, and then you find out that Mariska Hargatee is also a fan of Taylor Swift, and then they

ended up becoming friends, like Taylor Swift already had a cat named Olivia Benson, like it was, so it was already, and especially you know how everybody gets with the Taylor Swift lore, so they're like, oh my God, it's what Taylor likes, that, that's what we all like, oh my God, she's just like us, that, da, da, that, that. You know, so they get into their fervor, you know,

Yeah, no, it is really cute. And you're right, it is wonderful to see, you know, just like proud female friendships. I was thinking about this because I thought that one of the funniest things about Let's Marry Harry was how it totally abandoned the new found reality thing where women are supposed to be cool with each other. And those bitches are just hating each other. And I was like, you know what? It's actually refreshing. I'm glad that as a society we have recognized that the enemy is man, not other women. but it's still pretty funny to watch these bitches turn on each other, you know.

Because I like the aspect of how reality has changed where it's a lot like, no, fuck him. It has nothing to do with us. Like this is a, you know, it's like, I like that. General trending good, but sometimes it ends up being extremely performative where they're just like, you, yeah, you did cheat on him. I am validating what you're saying. But you're a good woman and I'm not mad at you. I'm mad at him. But that was not the case on Let's marry Harry.

Those women, like, I'm surprised it wasn't like, it's like if a girl was talking to him that she didn't come up and just like put her hand in her face and push her away. Like it was to that point because in fact, it even gets to a point that like he's down to his final three. And one of the women walks in after he had just banged the woman in the shower. and she was like, oh, I didn't even realize you were in the, you guys were in the show. And she asked him, did you guys hook up? And he was like, no, no, no, no, of course. Like, obviously they just had sex. And then he tells her, yeah, we did just have sex when you walked it.

And she's like, we're in like the finals. I'm not going to be with you, man. Like that's, she's like, you can't. She's like, we're here. Like, obviously I, you know, it would have hurt. But like, you're already. lying about that when we're in a house knowing that you're going to hook up with other people. So why would you not lie about this later on?

And so she, in the final three, one of them was like, I'm out. And she just fucking backed her bags and left, man. Because they were not pretending to be friends with each other. They were like, I'm beelining for this guy and you can get the hell out of my way. But I also understood, yeah, if you're already lying. what are we doing here, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, when you watch like a, I mean, honestly,

do you want to talk about Secret Lives of Mormon Wives? Have you seen any of it? We will get there. I did just want a real fast, not to backtrack just, as a Matthew Rees lift up. Let's go back to him, please. I don't know if you saw the, what I didn't realize this. With his wins for Outstanding Lead Actor in a limited or anthology series or movie for The Beast and Me, me, and outstanding lead.

lead actor in a comedy series for Widows Bay. Matthew Rees is now the first person to win leading acting prizes in all three genres. He won outstanding lead actor in a drama series for the Americans. And that is a well-rounded Welshman. If I'm looking at one, he can do it all. He can do it all. And then he looks at his wife's back. And he goes, and his tongue rolls all the way down.

And then that's the red carpet. And then everybody's stepping on his tongue. And he's like, I had my home back. And yet still he's smiling up to his eyes and everyone's like, oh my God, he's still so hot. And we're walking on his tongue. And I watched The Beast in me because I will watch anything that Matthew Rees is in.

And I'm proud of him for getting that Emmy because I didn't think, I just didn't, it wasn't bad. The Beast of Me was not bad. It seems like, but maybe it was to MJ's standards. I don't know. It was just fine. It was just like a fine thriller with Claire Dane's, Claire Daines, the other tight-faced upset.

I wonder if he kept being like, is that Carrie? No, that's Claire. No, no, that's not Carrie. That's Claire. Because that's crazy. I didn't realize this is the mashup of the century. It's the beast. It's Claire Daines and Matthew Reeves.

I feel like they shouldn't be in the same show. I feel like they should like two people that like cancel each other out if they're in the same thing. I mean, you know, I repost the reels of that woman who does various different Claire Dane's bits like Claire Daines during cyclospora and stuff. And it's just like Claire Daines being really upset and on the verge of tears all the time. And obviously, Claire Daines is a very versatile actress. Look at Family Stone. No, look no further than Family Stone to see that she does more things than just be really upset on the phone.

I'm sorry, Families a Stone. Families. I've been thinking about it ever since. I really just keep thinking about how maybe, you know, they've got time, MJ. maybe they'll change the name in the meantime. Yeah. I also have been thinking about families at Stone since yesterday. But yeah, the beast in me is the type of show that is made for the Emmys, I think,

and that it's just like, this is a really compelling drama. But it's just, I don't know, it just wasn't, there was no real big twist. it was like, you're a bad guy and she's going to catch you. And she's good. And she's good. Yeah. And she's upset. Yeah.

Yeah. So stressed. If there's one thing Claire dances, it is stress. But you know what it is, MJ? She looks really hot when she's stressed. And that's a look that I don't have. I will say I'm very lucky. I look hot when I cry.

I definitely like look beautiful when I cry. But in any other respect, no, no, no. Like if I'm upset, I just look like, ah, like, I feel like if you start to like my hair starts to just fall out and I start to just like bite at people, you know what I mean? And I just, Claire Daines is so effortlessly stressed in a way that I can't be. The more upset she is, the sexier she is, which is why maybe she just keeps getting cast to play really stressed out, upset women. It's because of the family stone.

You need to be right. But she's not upset. upset and stressed in the family stone, is she? Yes, she is. She's upset about her sister the entire time. Remember, she's all like, oh, but she looks so hot doing it. And she's like, oh, my God, all these hot guys want to fuck me.

You know, it's doing one of those. Yeah, you're right. She's like, oh, my terrible sister, who everybody hates. Yeah, yeah, you're right. She is. And again, she does it well. I'm not saying, don't watch the beast in me. You should watch it.

You'll have a great time. I'm just saying I don't really remember anything about it. That's okay. I remember so much about the Americans in Widows Bay. You even are trying to get me to watch Americans and I'm not watching it. So don't worry. And it really is difficult for me. We were just talking about Furious last night because I'm talking to some friends.

A lot of people are really recommending Furious to me. And I'm going to check it out in the next week. It's hard for me sometimes to choose like a 50-minute drama. I like a just a furious. Oh man, she's furious and she's not going to take it anymore. And it is supposed to be very good. Okay.

And this is, wait, is this a Hulu? Yeah, it looks like a Hulu. It is cool. And yes, and that's also why, man, there's been so much talk about Emmy Rossum recently and just kind of throwing her under the bus. And this is why. It's because she's in the show.

I didn't know why. I didn't know why all this Emmy Rossum stuff was getting dredged up. And I keep seeing it in places. And it is a lot of heresy. So I don't really know what is true and what is not. But it seems that she's also a very stressed out person in real life. But in this show, it's an FBI agent goes undercover to capture a female serial killer who only marries lonely millionaires. It's very, I'm hearing it's in a killing Eve space.

Which I'm into. You know what I mean? like I'm into that. Yeah. So apparently it's very good, but it's so hard for me because I think the way you feel about fantasy, MJ, I feel about a 50-minute drama where I'm just like, thriller, it's just, oh, it's, oh, cat and mouse. Oh, they got away.

And I know it's more than that. I know, and it's good. Sometimes it's just that, you know. That's like when I was talking about Harlan Coben's books, I'm like, I don't It doesn't matter what they're about. There's a sad, complicated man who's a cop and he's looking for his son, you know, and that's all you need to know. It doesn't matter.

And honestly, that's kind of good because you don't really want to have to plot when you're reading, you know? You want to think about character development or like anything like that when you're reading. And that's why Law & Order SVU is so good because they're like, what if we make a little mystery that you could not pay attention to at all and still have a great time? because the mystery is just not going to be that fleshed out. And, you know, and everyone was like, yes, please, give me 25 years of it. Yeah. And I'll do all of it.

In fact, actually, you know, we were loosely talking in Jackie's book club over on the page 7 Patreon about what books to do next. Like if we stay with Sookie Stackhouse or do we move on to a different place and someone had thrown out animorphs. And while I love that idea, I think it might be too intense of world. and also they're just killing kids. And I think that that's not, while I do want to read these books, I don't know if that's where our smart book club should go. Yeah. Well, you're okay with killing kids.

Not everybody is okay with killing kids. And I'm not talking. I'm talking about more like in media. Thank you very much. But I actually also not because it has been affecting me more recently. Was it when evil lurks? Is that the one? or is it, Wendy Velerks?

Some of them really make me nauseous now. I will throw that out there. But then you get like a buddy and then it's cartoonishly killing these kids and then it's fun. Yeah, yeah. I'm glad to know that's just a universal experience. The same with my stupid true crime.

Sometimes I'm like, ooh, good, a true crime. And then I watch it. I'm like, this is disgusting. Why am I, you know, like this used to, like I used to fall asleep to forensic files. And now I'm watching the pastor's wife And I'm just like, that bad pastor, I don't need to know this. And then I turn it off, you know.

My problem is I already never trust, you know. And I get. And so while I do enjoy, it's so funny because, like, I'm in the house that true crime built here at this network. Yeah, of course. And I do love true crime. I just, I watch another one. I'm like, great, great, never want to talk to anybody new ever again. And that's not what we're supposed to be.

from our media all the time, right? Yeah, yeah, no, this is, I always thought that I was anxious, not because of a genetic predisposition to anxiety handed down by generations, but because my family grew up watching 2020 on Friday nights. Oh, it was 2020 that did it to you. And 2020 is just like, here's a horrible tragedy of somebody who got into a pool once, you know, here's a horrible tragedy of someone who went on a walk once. And I think it really made me a foundationally afraid person.

But I think that what I'm learning from parenting is that I might have been that anyway. It might have just been pre-baked in, you know? Whoa. And you know what's not pre-baked in? This coming up, word from our sponsor. Before we continue on, I did just want to bring up real fast at the Emmys as well. The fact that Sarah Michelle Geller and David Boreannis, showed up as

you know they came in given Buffy an angel and I now I will throw it out there I was very very excited David Boreanus when did that happen he you know everyone

was talking about how much women always put in our faces right to make our faces not move David Boreanis like they couldn't even act like oh we like he's like David Boreanis was like, he looked like, what's a thing?

Not the hand, but the, right? Is that what the big craggle monster is in Marvel? The rock one, the one that's made out of rock. That's what he looked like. And I feel like they had no, this is my guys, I know. And I know we got a lot of Boreannis out there. And I understand, you can come at me. for this. It's why I

don't think I can do Angel and everyone's like, but you don't understand guys there's also Spike an angel as well. I just don't think, it's like, is there less Angel? If there's less Angel and I'll watch it. I don't think there's going to be less Angel and Angel.

You really feel like the problem with David, wait, two clarifying questions. You feel like the problem with Angel is the character is David Boreatus. Number one, And number two, you think that David Borendus's serious face at the Emmys last night is because he's so Phil Fuller that he can't move his face?

Yes and yes. Okay. I'm going to pause it. To number one, I'm just going to say, ouch. Ouch. Also, I will say I also don't like what happens. Like, I don't like in a way, and I'm not, I promise, I'm not going to start monolong about this, but in a similar way of how I feel about Edwards,

I also feel about Angel and while of course a lot of people that are familiar with the vampire Zikevite of course for people who don't know. That that makes a lot of sense but of course Angel came before

Edward so he was like the beginning of putting the foundation in young people that wanted to kiss boys' minds that they can be weird and sexually frozen and it's kind of their fault,

but also this is just the way he is. And I think that he broke her in so many ways, and I hate him. Angel, the character. Angel, the character, not David Boreyana. So that's a thing, MJ, it's an addendum to your number one and your number two. And that's number three, which is usually puke.

And this time, my puke is a great opinion. Yeah, I'm fine with that. I mean, I think we're going to get a lot of emails from angel heads out there. I'll take it. He's more complicated than that, to which I say, have you heard his Irish accent? When I rich eyes are smiling. He doesn't even go pirate route with it. I think he was so scared of doing the accent that he did a kind of light.

Now, I wonder if I thought that his very unmoving face at the Emmy's lesson, it was because, of he was doing his character of Angel, who's a very broody and serious boy. And so I'm going to ask all you bones heads out there, is he, not boneheads, bones heads? No, I think they call themselves boners, please. Can you boners rise up and let us know how I feel? Does David Borianis has a, does he have a versatile acting repertoire? Because Angel in Buffy really does one thing and it's a brood. And so I thought that he was just brood. I thought he was just channeling his inner brood. But also, yes, I've seen enough of Mike the situation Sorrentino's face to recognize what filler looks like. I thought you're talking about slow coma Mike from Desperate Housewives. Oh, you mean a man

that talks like this. No, Mike from Desperate Housewives also doesn't move his face, but it's not because a filler just because he can't act. He just literally, I don't think can move his face. But it is sometimes harder to recognize filler in a male actor's face. And I do, I'm sorry to throw you out the bus situation. You know, I love you. But I feel like Mike, the situation, Sorrentino is a, is a good example where you can just see like, oh, this is how, this is what filler looks like. This is where it goes in your face. And David Boranis does have that like, here are my lumps, you know, look. They're lovely lady lumps. And they really, I think they need to be, It's just something about like the widening of a face that makes me think of

Drop Dead Fred when he slams his head in the fridge. And that's kind of what David Brannis looks like. But isn't that also just part of aging? I feel like my face is getting wider as I age, you know? It is. I got no filler in there. That's wider than your average face right there. He's been getting into some picnic filler.

And they're all full up. But I did find that it was crazy that they didn't have any chemistry. And also that they just had one line at the end. It was like, also, our cast has been through a lot in the last two years. It's like, yeah, you had three major deaths. And I was a little surprised while I think that Catherine O'Hara deserves parades being given to her every year. So sweet. So sweet. So sweet. The tribute to her was so nice. Yeah. But I did feel like it was like, yeah, tough two years for a beloved cast and crew that was a little. And that's not on them.

That's on the people, you know, obviously. I just feel like for like Buffy's such a huge show to lose three major cast members in one year. I feel like it deserved a little bit more of a dedication than that, but also this is just because now we are obsessed with Buffy, so we want everybody else to be obsessed with Buffy. I think it ended up being a little awkward because there was like the laugh line from Sarah Michelle Geller being like, oh, I have always wondered if Buffy and Angel would get back together, but I guess now we'll never know, which was like a fun little dig at the fact that the Buffy reboot got canceled. But then I think it's like, I think in a speech like that when you're like, oh my God, Buffy and Angel from this iconic show with this

massive following are back together and they're presenting at the end these. I think you have to choose either we're going to have a joke about the cancellation of Buffy or we're going to have a tribute to the three beloved stars who died. I think doing both was a little, a little tricky. And they already had Catherine O'Hara, so they're like, that's kind of our caper. That's about it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even just a little, I think that it could have been a little, there could have been like a somber, but also, you know, Nicholas Brendan was kind of a complicated public figure to mourn so they probably didn't really want to get into that. I don't know.

That was, I agree. They could have at least said their names. They could have said their names. Knowledge to who they were, you know? Like, it's just, I felt it was a little,

but then also, and are we just the Sensis now? We're Buffy Sensi. And it's, the Emmys, it's a thing to celebrate television, you know? I mean,

obviously I love Catherine O'Hara more than life itself. And she was very famous because, of TV shows and also because of movies or whatever. But I do feel like if you're like Buffy is one of, in terms of television shows, I feel like it's got to be one of the most intensely beloved shows of the last 30 years. And so, yeah, at first when I saw them, I was like, yay!

And then, yeah, I agree. I think it was fun to see them together, but it did. You're right, they didn't really have much chemistry. And that is a surprise. Right. And maybe it was David Boreatus's frozen face. I didn't even really think of that. We know it's not Sarah Michelle Geller.

Okay. Because she's got a lot of chemistry. That bitch can't act our way out of our paper bag, okay? And especially what we've seen on this show. Also, speaking of, we are going to be finishing up our Buffy watch-along. And we did want to let you guys know that we have not watched the final two episodes yet. So here's the thing, guys. We were so excited as we're gearing towards the end of Buffy,

but we realize we can't watch the, the final episode alone. So we're going to be trying to go and do a Patreon live on. It'll be the last Tuesday that the episode would be. So I'm still trying to figure out Patreon live. And I'm gonna by the time that this comes out because we want to watch it alongside you. I think that we've done this, we've done this entire journey, just MJ and I. And I think that we've all gone through this together. So that's going to be over on our Patreon. Patreon.com slash page 7 podcast. So get on over there and you'll find out more information on how to join us.

Yeah. I mean, Buffy really is you could go your whole life as a millennial without really, I went my whole life as a millennial without really thinking about Buffy. And we were empty. It is like the giver where once you see it, you're like I did not even know that I was missing color. I know I referenced the giver a lot. It's great. I mean, it's because we're always thinking about the giver, MJ.

It's because the giver rocked us when we were kids, all right? When that apple turned red, I lost my mind. It should be the Wizard of Oz as my go-to for like, you don't even know what you're not seeing color, but it's always the giver. And honestly, I also reference the twin trash shoot a lot where, you know, sometimes it's like, oh, you can't have two be. that look the same, you got to choose one, put the other one in the trash shoot. And I also think about that too often, but I try

not to say that to any friends that, like, have a twin or anything. I'm not saying that one should have been destined for the trash shoot, but that is what the giver is saying. Now, what are we going to be saying about INA's new podcast? Yes, okay. All right, good. Because I know we

got to talk about Secret Lives and Mormon Wives, but I've got to talk about Ina Garten. We got to talk about it. She's going on a media blitz. Not only is she starting a podcast that's exactly like every other show she's ever done. It's a podcast. What is the damn show she just did that I talked about back to the basics? What the hell is it called? I'll find it.

It's like she just started a show on HBO Go that's like, come over and I'll cook you something and we'll chat. Also HBO Go dating yourself. Sorry, I always call it HBO Go. What is your HBO show on a Gar? Yeah, be my guest. Back to base. Be my guest. Thank you.

And also, even before, be my guest, if you ever watched it. It was back to basics. Yeah. The one before was back to basics. And that was her being like, I'll show you how to roast a chicken. But she always invites a friend over, and they're almost always famous. And they chat. That's just what she does.

They have boring conversation and make a fine meal. And we love it. And we love it. And now she's doing it in a podcast form. And it's going to be a drink. It's going to be a happy hour with a garden. It's called a happy hour because we're going to have a couple of drinks. And she did the New York Times, the interview, and because of course the New York Times has to be like,

we're adversarial. It goes there. So they ask her about her fanny size. Yeah. Yeah. They ask her about her rub preferences. They ask her about her relationship with Martha Stewart. But not about Jeffrey. They didn't ask about any of the boys on Fire Island, MJ. They didn't get into any of that. You know, I'm going to confess that I did not watch the entire Ina Garden interview. And I bet you had the best nap of your life. This is what people don't understand about Ina. They're like, why are you like Ida so much? You just fall asleep.

It's like, yes. And then you have dreams where Ina is speaking to you in your dreams. And then she lives in your brain. And everything's fine. And, you know, the interviewer is like, well, so I wonder you're going to have this podcast. You're going to ask celebrities on. and the interviewer's like, you know, a lot of celebrities have podcasts where they talk to other celebrities. And the interviewer, of course, goes, well, I think that what makes an interview interesting is creating some tension.

So are you going to like, but celebrities don't usually do that. They don't challenge each other. Right. Which is a fine point. It's a great point. But like, you're talking to Ina Garten. She's not challenging things. She's just, that's not what she's doing.

She would have if she had continued on working for NASA and the other stuff that she whatever she was doing, she would have. But instead she gave that up. Yeah, she gave up the Department of Defense to go to the Hamptons and create the catchphrase. How easy is that? How easy is that? She's not going to challenge anybody. Leave her alone.

And so they're like, are you going to challenge people on your podcast? And she's like, I'll think about it. No. It's called Happy Hour. It's called Happy. And what are you going to be? Also, can bring up people's scandals? You have to be Aina Garten to be able to call your podcast Happy Hour.

and get away with it. I'm just saying, I just feel like you've got to get really way more creative nowadays because you think that there's not a million things out there just called happy hour, but Aina's got the recognition in the name. Come on. There's only one Aina Garten and there is not two

because the other one is Martha Stewart. And so then, yeah, the interviewer is really pushing her. Like, do you like Martha Stewart? Martha Stewart doesn't like you. And Aina Garten is trying. You can tell she's really not interested. interested in this conversation. And she's like, I, I respect her.

I respect her. And I make her recipes. And then the interviewer goes, she pointedly said, Martha Stewart pointedly said, I've never made an Ina Garten recipe. And she says this to Ina Garten. And Ina Garton's just smiling with grinning her teeth. Like, well, isn't that interesting? Well, because you have to, because at the same time, what is she going to shoot shots

at Martha? Exactly. I would never. But also, look at that relationship right there. It's so funny that Ayna just gets picked. back, back. And she's just covered, and all of her feathers are falling out. And she's like, I like it. I like it. Thank you, Martha. I never thought about it. I respect her. Yeah, completely refusing to take the bait of a feud between her and Martha. But apparently, Martha's

actively engaging in creating a feud between them. And I kind of love that for each of them. Yeah. I think it's fine. You know, let Aina experience a single challenge in her life. I've read her memoir. Nothing difficult has really happened to her since her childhood. Her parents weren't awesome. They weren't even, they weren't terrible, but they weren't very warm. And I think that was really hard for her. And now she exudes warmth. So look at that. You're saying there's no tension in her life. You know, MJ, it's interesting that you say that I don't think Ina Garten exudes warmth. I think she's fairly cold and standoffish. Can you imagine like like relaxing in front of Ina, I would immediately like, I'd just be like sitting up, like making sure

because like if not, you know, I just feel like it's, it's, you know what it is and why I like her so much? Because I do feel like it's the weaponization of how easy is that? Because none of it is easy. Right. All of it is difficult. It's not warmth, but it's also not coldness. It's the performance of warmth. It's like a performance of warmth. It's a weaponized. It's like a It's like the idea of transportation. It's the performance of force. Yeah, yes. It's like you're going to come to my house and I'm going to make you a drink and we're

going to have a chat, you know? And if you don't like it, even with Jeffrey, she's like, Jeffrey, I'm starting a podcast and he's like, where is it going to be filmed? And she's like, our apartment, didn't I tell you? And it's like, Jeffrey, we're having a fun time. Jeffrey, our marriage is a happy one. Jeffrey, get al dente for me just this once. And he didn't.

And she was not happy. But you know what she did? She made some stuffing about it. And I'm proud of her and she's going to stuff the chickens that Jeffrey loves. Shove it in the chickens just like Jeffrey loves. There is some, it is, I got to think about this. There's something like an uncanny warmth about her where it feels like she could be a grandmother who you want to hug from. But then you look closer and you're like, have you ever hugged anyone?

I'm not sure. but I'm still thinking about there's still tickets available to her live show in New York. And I just looked this morning and there's still over $100 and so I still have not bought them. But I'm still thinking about it. It is. Although I will throw it out there. One of the few things and I'm happy because unlike in a Dolly situation, this is not something that is pointedly asked to her. Ina Gorton never wanted children.

She did not want children. She never wanted a family experience. whatsoever. She really did not like her parents. I think that my, yeah, she just was not, she was like, I'm a career bitch. Yeah. And I think it really showed that she didn't. But also, isn't that great for Jeffrey? Because then he doesn't have to perform, you know, good for him. Like, I'm thinking about his penis. Like, I'm happy for his penis that he never was like having to like step up to the plate or anything, you know? Yeah. I think that, I think that Ina Garton just wanted to just live a really nice life with really excellent food and really nice table settings.

Oh, no. Why would someone want to do that? It's great. It's great. I'm very happy for her, but you know who we're not happy for? It is the Ladies at Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Wow. Wow. So for those that I don't know if I had caught everybody up and or reminded everybody. So the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives just dropped the first, I guess, you want to say first half, but they haven't continued shooting. Right. The beginning, we think, or at least just five episodes of the recent season of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, this is what was being shot while all the shit went down after Taylor Frankie Paul shot the Bachelorette. And now we know we did not get that Bachelorette season. now they're watching Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

It makes sense. Oh, yeah. It's the entire thing also, it's like, it's like Chekhov's reality show in the most ultimate way because it's being filmed. It's like what they are filming is the lead up to this catastrophe that stops their show and that stops, that ruins Taylor Frankie Paul's life as her life is already crumbling before our eyes

in the first five seasons. It is like the singularity. of reality television. It's like you just went and shot this other reality show, The Bachelor, you're violating the NDAs on this show as you're telling all of your friends what happened, but I'm sure that it ended up, you know, that this show didn't come out until whatever. But she's like, she shoots this show. She immediately destroys it by, you know, abandoning the guy that she ends up with. She immediately violates all of her NDAs. She is making the, her friends are saying, Taylor, this is dangerous. You need help.

And we all know how it ends, which is this horrible video that was that almost certainly Dakota leaked to weapon to ruin her chance on the Bachelet, which also makes sense because now that we're watching this season of Secret Lives and Mormon Wives, it's because Taylor Frankie Paul the second she was done with the Bachelorette. So after she comes back, she's openly saying on this show that she was, she banged Dakota right before she left. which we knew because of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives the previous season because she didn't even show up on time for her plane because she was banging Dakota before she went to go find her husband on the Bachelorette. So she ends up like essentially being with this good, like choosing one of the guys. Doug. I'm going to say this poor dude.

And she comes back from the Bachelorette engaged quote of quote to someone. and then she immediately starts banging Dakota again. So it's all on, it's all on camera. So even if they release it, it's like it already ruins the whole like the love story of like what could be of what could happen. We know it's destroyed. She didn't even give it the real shot that, but we knew that she wasn't going to because she is technically, look at how much we're talking about it.

She's perfect for reality television because this woman should have. have her children taken from her. I do think that she should not be certainly in sole custody of those children anymore. But, yeah, I mean, it's, it's really, it's like, I, this, this one is so hard to watch because I really, really like, I've loved watching Secret Lives and Mormon Wives. I thought the first, you know, C-Sid was just like so, obviously they're bad, but really fun, like really compelling. They're all really compelling characters, and she's

an incredibly compelling character, but watching the fact that her interpersonal drama and mental health issues essentially ended up destroying this product that was, that millions of dollars were spent to produce, just poof, it's gone. They

had to cancel the whole season because of this video showing this, you know, interpersonal domestic violence. And think of all the dogmen that were on the show that wanted you to see their face so that you could want to kiss a dog man too. Yeah, that's so that they could become influencers, right? But yeah. And so now The Secret Lives and Mormon Wives is in this like incredibly interesting and devastating position as a show where it's like one of you, Whitney, who was, of course, the original villain, has now used this platform to make all of her dreams come true.

Like all of her dreams are coming true, right? Honestly, the only thing I'm really, I mean, I'm enjoying this whole thing because it's such a shit show, but I'm enjoying seeing Whitney genuinely shine. She's on Broadway. She is happy in her marriage. And now, of course, we know she's happier in her marriage because, you know, step aside Zach Affleck. I'm sorry, that the only good, or I think one of the, one of two only good husbands is. going to be on Dancing with the Stars, which is quite a weird nepo. Husband Nepo is fascinating, like in an influencer world.

You know, like, like spouse Nepo. Oh, yeah. Husband Nepo is fascinating, especially because he was also kind of a villain in the first season. But then you find out that he was, he has bad past. And then he talked about all of that stuff. Yeah. But that was just because he was jerking off.

I know. It wasn't even cheating. It was just porn, I think. He was jerking off. Yeah, so that's not villain material. But yeah, like, Whitney's dreams are coming true. I think it's very funny that the first scene of her moving to New York is just like the water's brown and everyone's crying and the view sucks. And I'm like, yeah, that is.

That cracks. You're in New York and you're immediately stressed out. Make it here, you can make it anywhere. Her dreams are completely coming true. Everyone else, all the other ladies are like, you know, whatever, they're launching their hair brand. They're all doing their separate. And then Taylor is just degenerating. I don't know if you saw that Michaela has left the show.

She has now exited the show. Apparently word on the street are that Layla and Macy are not far behind her. I mean, it's a, it's a, at how she also used like her, I think, religion to be like, I'm not morally, this is, but even without being a Mormon, you can be like, I'm not a Mormon. And I'm like, I think that this show that I really have loved, I think it might be profiting off of one individual's extremely significant mental health decline. Yeah, and I'm going to watch every second of it. Impacting her children.

And I don't, you know, I don't know what's the best thing that happened for the kids. But obviously, Taylor, Frankie Paul, and Dakota both need an immense amount of help. And it's really strange. Obviously, reality has been trashy. and we've seen people's lives be ruined on reality for quite a long time. But this feels like a different level of like this character.

I mean, Taylor was the first character we meet in season one. And again, this incident is the first thing we hear about in season one. We talked about this at the time. It was never a problem for the producers. They knew about it. She went to jail.

It was only a problem once it became visible. The footage was leaked. Yeah, once you could see, oh, that's really bad at a child is there. But again, I really want to say the real bitch of it is the, you know, the network execs that were like, we know what happened. We know that this woman went to jail for a domestic violence incident and go forward with five. And only when the visual of it is out where they're like, we couldn't be associated with this.

Oh, you could. You could. And yet, you still are. And it is really crazy that Taylor Frankie Paul, you know that this, the child. She is not media trained in any way, shape, or form. And I'm sure she's probably bucks against it because she's like, this is what's gotten me where I'm at. But she is still making social media posts through all this.

She is still like defending herself. She's still, and then it's like goes back and forth between defending herself so fervently and then being like Mormon, Mormon, Mormon, Mormon. And it's like, okay, I really don't think you can be behind behind Mormon right now. Like, girl, like you got to go. get like I don't I excuse me I I am I'm assuming that there's not a lot of therapy support in the world of Mormon communities and I think she needs desperate help I mean Heather Gay talked in her book about how you like you are supposed to kind of like it's not exactly Catholic confession but you basically are supposed to like confess to your whatever your big guy the priesthood like whatever yeah like right Yeah, yeah. And I guess some man who has a higher title than you in the church and you're supposed to tell them.

Yes. Every intimate detail of your life. But yeah, I mean, right. And you can't diagnose someone from watching them on a reality show. But just Taylor Frankie Paul needs really, really serious help. And yeah, I mean, I think at this point from Michaela, it's not a religious decision or a moral decision. It's a branding decision. You know, I think at what point is this going to become toxic, you know?

and yeah, it's a, and I'm not even trying to defend the show when I say like the show when I loved it so much. Obviously, it's just any reality show. But I just really, I don't know, I just feel like it was really well made. I feel like the first few seasons, they really figured something out. They got, they were like, these women are really interesting. This is going to be about this, like the way that it's like, ooh, they're Mormons, but they're sinners also. I just think they've, they had a great idea and they did it very well for many seasons. Can I just say,

What they did not do well last season was what we were complaining about so much, which was bringing in all of Dad Talk and having to listen to any of Dad Talk. You know what they completely got rid of for these five episodes? Any second of Dad Talk. Thank you. You listened. We didn't want to fucking hear from any of them. I don't want to hear any of them in a confessional.

I don't give a shit. Every moment that Zach F. Flack is on our screen, man, when Jen was talking about like, you're like, I do think it would be fun to do like a playboy or not play. She didn't say playboy. She didn't say it. Sports Illustrated. And the way he reacts. Apparently he also stopped her.

She was offered a movie role and he wouldn't allow her to do it because she had an on-screen romance. Yeah. I know. I know. That's the thing. And I think that's one other. And she's pregnant again, MJ.

I think that is actually one of the other compelling things about the show because what was so. fun about it at first was like these women, and yeah, of course it was all bullshit that they were like, we're Mormons, but we're feminists and were empowering the Mormon church to be more feminist. That was whatever. But like they were these like really interesting women who were portraying this complicated relationship with the church and wanting to be feminists and girl power and all that stuff. And they as women were interesting. But unfortunately, every man that each of them are attached to, except Connor, Whitney's husband, all of the men can go.

to the bottom of a pit and stay there. Oh, God. And so that's the other thing that makes it as it keeps going on and you just realize all of these men are toxic at best. At best. Abusive. Like, Zach Affleck,

you cannot tell me that that guy's not abusive still. We've seen it on camera and then he was like, oh, I'm better now. MJ, the fact that she was so, like Jen Affleck has openly, which I appreciate, has openly discussed. how difficult

dealing with postpartum and dealing with like it's like especially the last kid she had she was six weeks postpartum when she started dancing with the stars and she just kept talking about how how destroyed her life was and the fact that I saw her and not in the

show not in the current season right now in real life at this time she is full as the moon with child and I you can't put this on somebody, but the first thing I immediately thought was like, that wasn't her choice. And I, of course, we could never say that for a person, but I imagine that wasn't her choice.

That is a great point because obviously having postpartum depression does not mean that you shouldn't have another kid, right? I'm not saying that. No, no, no. I know because you're making a very good point because there also have been very well documented instances. I'm thinking specifically not to make it really dark, but of Andrea Gates, who. was somebody who got postpartum psychosis and killed her children, but she got very severe

postpartum depression after each kid. And the doctors, her doctors, after like three or four, were like, you should probably stop having kids because you seem to be particularly susceptible to very intense postpartum depression. And because of their religion, she just kept, like, her husband kept being like, well, we got pregnant again. And it did not. And it did not. end well and obviously that's well you know that's that's that's a exception. That's different. No but I think the point you're making of like

seeing somebody struggle desperately on TV with how depressed she was while she was pregnant and after she was pregnant and having three under three I mean these are right one after the other and then getting pregnant again listen if that's what she wants then

then God bless it and I hope that she can figure out how to get through the mental health piece of it well but like I don't It's just that we see her. She's in a coercive relationship with a shithead, you know? And it's just dancing with the stars was like a year ago so means that she had a baby. I'm presuming like last summer. I just like can you like I can't. It's more of just like I can't imagine the depression of thinking of having to do it.

Like and then does that not begat more depression of like and I'm saying if it's not your choice? Like if this is something that you feel that there's nothing that you can do about it. according to your religion or according to how you were raised or according just to your own beliefs. Yes, that's the problem. It doesn't seem like this, like she has free will. I also saw a very insightful post about her like feud with Whitney. And the post was like, it's so clear that the reason Jen hates Whitney so much is because Whitney has all the things that Jen wants.

And she has the support. She has a husband who loves her and helps her. Yes. who like has said like I watched some interview like during the Dancing with the Stars and he's like he's running around to the kids he's like I've become a house husband and I'm loving it and it was like one of these things like and Zach Affleck is so pissed that she's making more money than he's making yes that's the thing he despises the fact that she's the breadwinner he dropped out of medical school only because it was obviously very clear that they were going to make more money with her being uh you know on on on T's TV. And so he completely resents her. He wants her to live in Utah and not pursue any of her artistic dreams. He just wants to keep her pregnant. And at home, it's just so obviously coercive. And yeah, so that's, it's, that's the thing. It's not only Taylor Frankie Paul who's being exploited. It's, it's definitely gen two. And then the other ladies are just like, come to my hair salon,

you know, and they're like, okay. Because I even love with Michaela that she was like, because she's had so many issues and she started eating edibles and they're really helping her. Yeah. Love that. Thank you for sharing. It's like I love that.

Yes. That's great. And also they're so young. God, I'm watching season five. She's 24 years old and they've got four kids. And then I'm thinking, how are you 24? And it's season five. This means, and I knew, we knew this at the time,

but it really hadn't sunk in. You were 21, 22 when this show started. And you're not old enough to write. car then because your brain isn't you can pop out as many kids as you pop in there and man not only the kids but also you can make television you can make choices about your own fame and your own public image that will be very hard to escape the only choices i was making at that age was whether to take the yager shot before the fireball shot or to take or just take them at the same time because you may as well you know what i mean i gotta say fireball first yager after it's like acid and base you know acid and base. Thank you, MJ. And I'm glad this is why we talk these things out. And this is why I miss having, man, we used to not be able to do page seven unless we had at least four tequila shots. So that really, just, God, can you imagine? Can you imagine? Yeah, you start to get that snot going. If we're talking memories, we're going to start snotting around just like a grizzabella should. But also,

thank you so much, MJ. This was a wonderful, wonderful suck it. Oh, sorry. I got so full up. It's coming back up out of my mouth. And we got to get out of here before I puke all over the microphone because, like I said earlier, number three, puke's for me. I didn't say that earlier. So I'm sorry I said that for the first time there. Thank you, everyone, for hanging out with us.

And again, so excited. You got, and now, yes, this is going to be your usual. You get your second helpings on Thursday. but don't worry, never fear. It's going to be different, but it's going to be fun. We've got page seven dark-sighted coming up for you tomorrow, so check out our new show. I'm going to be doing it with Kara, not doing it with MJ.

I'm releasing MJ from having to be mean. And even though me, MJ, and Kara all struggle with hot takes, sometimes, sometimes you get out of your comfort zone, and try something new. Sometimes you just log into page six, your post and you think, good God, and then you close the tab. And Jackie's got to keep that tab open. You've got to see all the worst things that the celebrity tabs have to offer. I'm doing it.

I'm getting into every tab you got. So if you've got something lurking out there, send it on over, Red Rover, Red Rover. I'd love to hear at page 7podcast at gmail.com. Thank you all for hanging out with us as we try new things. and we go our own way. And thank you so much, MJ. MJ, do you need to say anything in our closing remarks? I don't have to say anything, except we love you guys so much.

Shall we sing the song? We shall. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.