Page 7 - Talkin' TV - Do You Wanna Talk About the Darkness?

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

This week on Talkin' TV, Jackie once again opens the tome of sorrow known as the Golden Bachelorette and it continues to unleash a stream of depression as well as mournful cries from from Holden and MJ, Martha Stewart calls out both the Golden Bachelors AND Ina Garten and Jake Young from Wizbru's journey on The Floor continues on for at least another week and he even gets an chant from the audience! Holden brings up how the Netflix doc about the Menendez Brothers shows just how flawed the Ryan Murphy series is, and Jackie keeps it sad by recommending the total tearjerker The Wild Robot. Jackie finally finishes Gravity Falls and MJ gets Holden excited for getting to watch shows with Wynnie as she gets older, Jackie recommends Demons to but MJ worries Gideon ain't up for it. MJ had to space the OG Salems Lot out across 4 nights as it's 183 minutes, and also talk about their love for the Halloween series, and Jackie and Holden can't wait for them to get to Season Of the Witch! Jackie also comes in last minute with a few classic recommendations including Fright Night, as well as Vanessa 5000 and even more on this Talkin' TV!  Golden Bachelorette - HuluGastronauts - DropoutThe Floor Season 2 - Fox, HuluThe Menendez Brothers - NetflixThe Wild Robot - IN THE THEATAHHHHGravity Falls - Disney+Penguin - MaxDemons - ShudderThe Wicker Man (1973) - Amazon PrimeFright Night - MaxSalem's Lot (1974) - MaxVanessa 5000 - Dropout Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

with M.J.J. Holden. Jackie talking TV. And you know it's going to get wacky. Because everybody knows and everybody knows. And everybody knows we're talking shows. We're talking to TV with M. Haldon. Jackie.

What's up, y'all? Oh, baby. Did you? Who screw? I always have to unplug so that I can sing the song. But then I usually follow your mouth Holden. But it seemed like your mouth wasn't doing what you wanted it to do. I did it backwards. You did it.

I'm not, we're not starting with Golden Bachelorette. I know that was your attempt to do that. Whoa, how did you know? How do you know all I want to do is talk about their past? Why, bro, I just don't know. I'm all sad. And I don't think you guys understand how good of a woman Joan is. All right.

Oh my God. Was this week, all right, Jackie, tell me, was this week's episode sadder than last week's episode. No, it wasn't, but I do think that everybody who's anybody was so fucking right about Mark being a, uh, a little ploy stand in from the producers so that he can be the golden bachelor next year. I'm fairly sure. Because on this episode, and I know, spoilers, everybody, she straight up is like, Mark, I'm not feeling you. And he pieces. They have like a one-on-one date, even though we know he is the hottest of the Zaddies, but she's just like not really feeling it because you can tell

because they go, they finally go on this one-on-one and I'm watching both of your eyes glaze over but you will listen to me talk about this. They go on this one-on-one and Mark is like not saying anything. He's just like sitting there and it's like, bro, you're a pretty face, but I need a little bit more from you. And here's the thing. Chalk is going a little too far.

Chalk is definitely being a little more possessive than I think the other boys are enjoying. But I will also throw it out there for Chalk because someone who is amazing wrote in to tell me about how Chalk like means something. You'd think that I would remember exactly what you said. I thought I had it pulled up, but I don't. That like Chalk is like a Kansas City sport thing. And there's a reason why Chalk is the name and it is a sport thing. And so that is known. So I guess I'll stop making fun of the name, Chalk.

But I feel like he doesn't have enough zest for her. I don't think he has enough zest for her. In fact, she kicked off the girl dad dude with the big belly. I loved Girl Dad. And I'm sad that she got rid of Girl Dad because Girl Dad seemed like a lot of fun. And he is who she gave the first impression Rose to, okay? Okay. And so he thought, yeah, I remember Girl Dad.

I know Girl Dad guy. I really like Girl Dad guy. He was, yeah, every time he talks about his daughters, he starts openly weeping. I'm over it. I actually almost put on the last episode, so now I'm really behind. I was like playing video games.

I was like, oh, yeah, I'll throw out. And then I just looked at it. I just, I can't. I can't. I can't. Open up your heart for a moment. Why won't you allow these golden bachelors to live out their dreams?

of finding love again. I think we want them to find love again. Yeah, it's just the part. I don't think they are, any of them already. I think they're all still breathing. I do love this Martha Stewart slams golden bachelors as quote, not hot enough for her. That's good.

Well, I love Martha Stewart. Not hot enough. Not hot enough of Martha. Martha Stewart's also slamming I in a garden. I know. This is not talking books. It's talking. TV, but I am immersed in the world of Ina Garten, and I know we're still talking about the

Golden Bachelor, but she was on, Martha Stewart was on, watch what happens live, and she was asked about Ina Garton's memoir. I feel I don't even know you guys anymore. You don't know the world we're living in. Welcome to the club for 70-year-old women, okay? We're talking about Golden Bachelor. We're talking about Martha Stewart. By the way, you know, if you start to feed yourself this stuff all the time, you really will

be, you're going to die sooner. It's like smoking cigarettes. every episode of the Golden Bachelor or Ina Garden interview with Martha Stewart's watch. And Jay had to read the memoir. And MJ did it for us. And I thank you, MJ. I'm listening to this book.

Oh my God, you guys. I see you guys, you guys keep coming back more cronish every week. I'm telling you. It's a roller coaster because some moments I'm reading this book and I'm like, this is the most boring book I've ever written. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then every so often I'll text Jackie and I'll be like, Ina Garten worked as a secretary for a stript.

club. Isn't that club? You know? So not even like in the strip club. She was like in an office. It was in the back. It was she didn't even know it was a strip club holding. And then she found out. Penciled pusher for a strip club. And then she was scandalized. And then her and Jeffrey went backpacking across Europe and it's boring. It's so boring. I couldn't. Yeah. Yeah. It's making you more aged. Yeah. Stop this. Yeah. Stop this madness. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's tough. It's really tough. I love this woman and she just has not enough to say to make a memoir. But Martha Stewart is mad at her because Martha Stewart explicitly, I mean, it had been hinted at before we talked about it, but explicitly on Watch What Happens Live, she was like, she was asked about it and she goes, she can say whatever she wants.

Damn. And Snoop is there, by the way. They're just, I love that they travel together now. And she was like, she could say whatever she wants. And then Andy Cohen was like, well, she claims that. And you guys just like grew apart and you claim something different and Martha's like she stopped talking to me when I went to prison and then Snoop goes and that's when I started talking to you. Yeah. Snoop. Oh God, I love their relationship and I just don't Martha Stewart. And it makes me sad that Martha Stewart will never talk to Eina Garton ever again.

But also, doesn't it make a complete sense? I mean, Martha is the mean bitch. Yeah. She is the one that everybody wants her to like them. but she doesn't like barely nobody. Yeah. And you just like follow her around like a puppy. It's like, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please,

please, please, please, please, please, please, please like me. And I would be one of those people if I was in her presence. And the most interesting thing about it is that Ina Garten is so uninteresting that she, yeah, the fact that she even, like, the fact that she's even ensnared in drama with Martha Stewart inherently, inherently makes Ina Garten more interesting, just relationally. Of course, completely. But it was from non-action. From non-action.

She just stopped talking to Martha Stewart when Martha Stewart went to prison because Ina clearly thought it was trashy. And Martha Stewart is like, fuck you, I'm going to bring it up. I'm going to keep bringing it up. And so it's great. And if you are wondering whether or not you should read the Anagarton memoir, if you like to be lulled to sleep with like, if you are thinking like, describe a chapter, like describe. It seems not steamy. It's, oh, no, it's, oh, no, there's no, there's no steam. They, they stayed in a hotel together before they were married, but don't worry.

No funny business happened. How dare. It's like that level of, and then. Something slightly interesting, but not even really interesting. Not even. Almost happened, but don't worry. Nothing happened. I will say, though, MJ, another little nugget for you.

This is nothing to do with Ina or Martha, but I did see that Pioneer woman's daughter, Alex, is pregnant with a little girl. I know. And I started to cry when I saw the end. I almost sent it to you. I almost sent it to you. It was like, reedroman. I'm happy for you.

You're going to be a grandma. Oh, yes, babe. Yes, and I'm happy for her. But you know what? I will say this about Anna Garten. Re-drum end is more boring than her. I will. I do find.

Even with Lad, you know she plows down Ladd. Who's that? Lad is her. You don't get us. Hold it. Just for the so many listeners who also have no idea of the fuck. There's the barefoot contessa.

Barefoot contessa is I'm a garden. She's our Hamptons lady. Right. And she's the most interesting thing she's ever done was backpack across Europe in the 70s. And then there's Reed Drummond, who is the pioneer woman. She lives on stolen land. Right. From the indigenous people.

Her husband is kind of implicated in the family that is that the Martin Scorsese film is about. many generations that they had lived. It's all. She did. Her family. She married into generationally stole the land. But I will throw it out there. Of the recipes,

if we're going to slap out there, Martha, Ina and Rhee, I go to Pioneer Woman every time. Her macaroni salad recipe, her funeral potatoes. Her recipes are great. Their little fatty girl recipes. It's great.

Yeah, yeah. But she is, I mean, what makes, what these women have in common, is a astonishing lack of charisma on camera. Uh-huh. Certainly great. Somehow floated them through a decades worth of one camera cooking show. How many hours, MJ, have you watched them on your screen?

So many. This is the thing. They taught me how to cook. I learned how to cook from them. And another boring person, Rachel Ray, I learned how to cook from it. Before we had, before it was all chopped and contests, it was just a camera in a woman's kitchen and the woman was telling you boring stories about her life. A menopausal.

Yes. And I lived for it. Not to be like this and not to be like a dropout head over here because you all have to listen to me talk about dropout. But they've got a new cooking show. It's like dropouts version of a cooking show called Gastronauts. And the person who's the host, this is going to sound like the lamest thing I've ever said, is one of like the snack fluencers that I follow.

And so I've been watching, but it's like a fun, Zay. cooking show that is judged by people that don't really know a lot about food but know they like to eat. And it is a lot of fun. That does sound fun. Oh, wait, before we move on, Holden, I thought of another exciting anecdote from Anna's book. One time Jeffrey brought a friend home for lunch. And I'd never made lunch for a guest before. I'd only made dinner. So I ran out to get ingredients for a lasagna and I made a delicious lasagna. And then Jeffrey said he and the friend went back to work and they had a hard time staying awake that afternoon. I've never made lasagna for lunch again.

What a silly girl! I learned my lesson. No more lasagna for lunch. Not in the middle of a day. It is a bad choice for lunch. It's a bad choice for lunch. It is bad. I love you, I know.

That's the riveting. That is the same. That's a plot point in the memoir. That's like a major, wow. I got some exciting to talk about. I got something really. real jumping and excited. There are many people that are excited about what we were just talking about.

Thank you very much. I want to kick it up a little notch. Literally the entire MJ's old point of this last segment was how boring a thing was. And then before that, it was how sad a man was. So let me just kidding. A little more thrilling. I'm just saying, I'm just putting out the feelings on this. Our boy Jake killing it on the floor, sons, dude.

It's a great episode. I watched the episode that Jake was on because I don't. really care about a trivia show, but I will say for those of you that don't care about a trivia show, it's a pretty great trivia show. It's a fun trivia show. It's fun if you do try to play along too, it's a lot of fun. And getting all the insights from Jake, like we talked on our our Wisbury Patriot stuff about some of the stuff. But like, first of all, like, yeah, if you haven't, have you watched any of it yet, MJ? Any of the four? No, I haven't. I've been following the hype, but I haven't watched it. Yeah, yeah. He had a really good episode this. He,

He did such a great, at least watch Jake's episode. You guys got to watch Jake's episode, episode, episode three. Or no, episode four, actually. Episode four, season two, right? Yeah, it's like, and it's close to the end of the episode. So that was cool, but also just learning about what it's like to be on a game show like this. Yeah. And they're all in, like, a group chat now.

And like whenever, so it's, it's, what, 50 people? Is it 50 on the floor? Something like that? Seems like a lot. I jumped into episode four. So you're asking the wrong one. So they're all on this grid on this light up floor. And everybody has is like a quote unquote specialist of a specific topic.

Also I will say it wasn't too difficult of a game show to understand the idea of. I feel like sometimes you jump into a random episode of a game show and you're like, what the fuck is going on with this? And they've got like the bazoombies. And then oh, you better watch out when the wagnuni light goes off. And everyone's like, ah! Yeah, it's really just like you have a top. You have a specialist topic.

He goes, Rob Lowe is the host. He goes, turn on the randomizer. And it goes, and somebody's floor lights up. And then they have to choose someone adjacent to them to challenge in their topic. Okay. So it's more about, so, like,

one of the topics is Taylor Swift, song lyrics. So what they do is they get up and they stand. There's this big screen to their right that you're looking at. They're looking at screens behind each other. That was one of the cool things I learned.

and only when the image pops up on your screen. So they don't see the opponent's stuff like we see as an audience. They only see their, like, and essentially it's just pictures of stuff, and they have to name what it is. That's all. It's very simple in that way. And Jake's topic is action movies. Although I thought it was very weird that vending machines,

I was like, that's just snack mascot. Like, it's just the cover of snacks. Yeah. And I was like, you don't know vending machines. You just know. the covers of snacks. Yeah. Right.

The covers of snacks. In every conflict, there's at least one bitch. A huge bitch, a silly bitch. A little baby bitch, a raggedy bitch. But sometimes it's unclear who the bitch is. I'm Kara Klank. And I'm Jackie Zabrowski. And on our new Colin Advice podcast,

we're going to help you figure out who's the bitch. We want to hear your problems, dilemmas, and quandaries. No topic is off limits. Does your coworker flirt with the boss to get? Get ahead. Is your bestie having her destination wedding on a holiday weekend? Is your therapist being clingy? Does your friend keep bringing her toddler to adult parties?

Come on. There's definitely a bitch in your life and we want to hear about it. You can email us, DM us, leave us a voicemail and even call in live to talk to us in person about the alleged bitch in your life. Just go to who's the bitch.com for all the ways you can contact us. New episodes drop every Wednesday starting in October on the last podcast network. so subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And tune in to our live stream kickoff on September 30th on the last podcast network Twitch channel

where we'll be taking your calls live on air. Help us, help you figure out who's the bitch. So anyways, they go back and forth and if you beat them, you like get their territory on the board. Got it. So if you're like, ballsy and want to gamble, you know, you keep challenging people. like expand your territory, but often

they, they, like, go back to the floor as soon as they win one to, like, stay safe, right? I was so proud of Jake. Jake's like, I promised myself I got up here, I was going to keep on going. And I was like, Jake! And Jeff and I are just like, Jake, Jake, Jake, Jake! And he gets a chant at the end of the episode. No one else does that.

No one else gets that at the end. Everyone's literally chanting Jake at the end of this episode. That's awesome. It's really cool. And so, yeah, it's like so fun to just, like, see your friend at a game. But I really enjoy shows like this. Lexi and I are totally hooked. We've been watching from episode one. And it is a lot of fun. And it's a lot of fun to play along at home because you're just yelling out stuff popping up on the screen. You know, so anyways. But yeah, it was funny. He was like,

we're on a group chat. And I made a joke about the randomizer. And he was like, yeah, we're on a group chat. And anytime we hear someone say, start the randomizer, like, everybody just has an initial, like, trauma response because it was so stressful. Like, every time he would do that, you know, make the randomizer go off. You know, everybody goes, oh, fuck, because like, it could be your turn to be in the spotlight, to be challenged with a bunch of, like, crazy, you know, trivia stuff. And I think at the end of the day, what you don't want to be, but somebody has to be that, is just going up there and immediately losing and leaving, especially on the first day, right?

So Jake is, Jake is still in it, and, uh, which is great. So it was like, it wasn't, it's not just like he just looks like an idiot. So he's at the very least past the part where he just looks foolish. That's great that he gets to stay. One of my best friends is on Jeopardy. And he did a great job. But, you know, with Jeopardy, obviously, there's only one winner. So it doesn't, and it's like so much hinges on, so much of it is just like based on Final Jeopardy.

Right. And so he did a great job, but he didn't get to go on. And I was just like, one episode of Jeopardy wasn't enough. I want you to be on several episodes of Jeopardy. So he didn't win? He didn't win, no. My buddy, Keith, went on a run. and that was so exciting.

And we didn't know. And yeah, and I would get together with it. It was like, he's my old high school friend. And I would get together with another high school friend that was living in New York at the time. And his sister was also living in New York. And we'd all get together every night and watch. And we had no idea like when he was going to lose.

And he made like six figures on Jeopardy. Really? So, yeah. He's my insanely smart friend. He's the theoretical physicist, Yale Ph.D. friend. But yeah, he went on and crushed. It was so much. It was so thrilling.

every week to be like, he did it ahead. It was just like, you know, and he has, he was like having two kids at that time. And so he was just like, yep, just college fun, done, over. Wow. Like, amazing. Yeah, they went on like a fun trip and then it was just like, done, don't have to think about that anymore. Just that's, that's socked away. Dude, that's all.

Because also he's a smart person and knows what to do. Yeah, exactly. And would not like the money. This is the problem, you know. Like, I could never be rich because I never could, um, stay rich or like maintain anything. Yeah, I would put like wheels on a dog or something. Yeah.

Doing stuff like that and be like... Dumb shit. Yeah. Honestly, yeah, I'd be buying things like a diamond necklace that said skibbitty toilet on it. I'd be doing what Northwest is choosing to do. Yes. So very cool.

So it's just a lot and it's very hype right now with with him because he's still, he's still running on this thing and we don't know what's going to happen. It's so exciting. I had a, I have a darker thing to talk about. Do you want to talk about the darkness? I have so. many darknesses. We've all been in the darkness, I think,

for 31 for 31, right? Oh, yeah. I've got a lot on my schedule over here. What's funny is it's not even a 31 for 31 thing. Although I did watch most of Titane. I still need to go back and finish it. And I have been... Teton.

Teton. Real quick, I just wanted to talk about because I really, especially after watching this, I even more so think that no one should watch the Ryan Murphy Menindez thing. I watch the Menendez Brothers documentary on Netflix. I looked up, there's a few Menendez documentaries, so I kind of, I looked up online, like,

Best One, it seemed like the Netflix. The Netflix ones a lot of their own voices, right? Which one is the one that you watched? And it's, I believe, just called the Menendez Brothers. Yeah. I think that's the only one on Netflix. I started that one. And then I was like, I need a break from the Menendez Brothers.

And it is, it is really solid and really, really. pushed me even more to feel like, why are they trying to make this, like, gay thing happen between the brothers and all that? Why are they taking liberties with this story? I feel like it's really ironic. And even though I will say, I did like his treatment of the OJ thing, although, again, is it necessary? Because that OJ documentary was incredible that came out at the same time. And I kind of got everything from that. I just was so fascinated by it. It was, I guess, enjoyable to, like, rehash it in a drama series or whatever. But. that said, like, the whole point of the documentary felt like it was like people taking their

narrative and running with it in wrong ways. And so it feels very like ironic and just kind of gross that that feels like that's what Ryan Murphy did with monsters. And I think that's what they've been fighting against this whole time. And it's really one of those situations where if this had happened today, I think that their treatment in the media and the result of the court case would probably have been quite different, quite different. I think that's right. I think that the whole interesting thing about looking back at it is how much was the current, was the context, you know, at the time informing how people were able to receive this story. Yeah. And, and like systems of abuse and, you know, just what that is and what the, what the trauma of

of that can do to you. I think the most eye-opening thing was they literally couldn't find a character witness for the dad. They couldn't find one person to go up on the stand and be like, I like, this was a good guy that I liked. The only person who had anything positive to say about him, apparently was like his secretary, but even that was like not a lot. Like they, like, that's insane.

Like, you get to the end of your life and there's not a single human being that can say, that can get up and say, we were friends. and I had a good relationship with this guy. And in fact, it was quite the opposite. He was known for being a fucking nightmare person. Like, that's how he got to where he got. That's the capitalist machine for you. Like, oftentimes these fucking just nightmare humans end up being very successful in a system

that rewards that kind of behavior. And it really seems like that's this whole guy's M.O. And then on top of that, I believe them when they say that they were molested by this guy, you know, a lot. And, yeah, so it definitely, definitely changes things. It's still hard because it's like, they went to the movies and they like, you know, it's always a little hard to stomach when it's like, then they kind of like tried to hide, like they, they were like, maybe we can get away with this and, you know, did several things before like calling the police and pretending to be, you know, upset at finding their parents dead when they were the ones who did it. Like, I mean,

so I get it. Like, it's not like, you know, it's not like, it's not like, it's not like, cut and dry, but I do think things would have been very different in 2024. Totally. Like, I get why Ryan Murphy was like, oh, there's like, there's, there's no clear, like, what if we explore both sides here because they did these things where they tried to cover it up or whatever? But then again, it's like, like I said, when I talked about the Ryan Murphy show, it's just like, they're actually, I think that we can pretty much come down on like some clarity when

we look at this story 30 years later, you know? Yeah. They don't, they don't seem criminally insane. They seem pretty well spoken about their situation and their relationship with each other. And how much did he imply that they were gay together? Quite. I mean, let me say this. He implies, Brian Murphy is very good at, like, I think,

insinuation. Plausible deniability, because it's, he implies that that's what some people were saying, which I think was true. Then people were saying that. But I think that, right. Like, specifically, Dominic Dunn, who was the Vanity Fair journalist who did a lot of the, like, kind of, you know, like lurid true crime writing about it, but, which is Nathan Lane's character in the book.

So it's, but it, but it, I think that it's one of those things where it's like, he could be like, well, I didn't imply that they were incestuous together. It was just that that was being, that was a rumor at the time. And I, and I, and do you think that guy was gross and do you think Ryan Murphy believes it? I mean, honestly, the story that comes, that, that, that they, that is part of the Ryan Murphy documentary, but that I would actually think is a more interesting, I want the documentary of this part of the story is that Dominic Dunn was a crime writer in part because his own daughter had been murdered and he became like animated by like rage at how defense lawyers put on defense

like the abuse excuse is what they called it. Like that there was this phenomenon. He wrote in Van, he, he, he wrote in Van, he, he, he He was like this very, very popular writer for Vanity Fair, but also he had experienced this horrific crime in his own family and then went on this kind of like crusade about how defense lawyers are monsters who use the abuse excuse, quote unquote, to try to keep people free and the monsters free. He like very, very kind of like 80s, 90s crime, monsters, monsters, monsters type of.

But it just feels so motivated, yeah, by that it would skew your, viewpoint. So that, so Ryan Murphy kind of touches on that aspect of the Dominic Dunn stuff, which I actually think is really interesting, that like he was the person crafted this narrative about the Menendez brothers and that they were using the quote unquote abuse excuse and that he had a personal hatred for that and for defense lawyers in general because his own daughter had been murdered in an instance of domestic violence. And then that guy who murdered her got off by claiming that he had, I don't know anything about that trial other than what I read in looking into this when watching it. But basically, the guy who murdered his daughter claimed that he had experienced a

bunch of abuse, he ended up not getting, like, I can't remember if he got off completely or if he just didn't get a full sentence or whatever. And so then that sent Dominic Dunn, this high-profile journalist on this crusade about how the criminal justice system favors defendants, which is just like categorically untrue, but was the overwhelming sentiment in the 90s and 80s about that that crime is run rampant and defense lawyers are monsters and everyone's just suing for no reason exactly and you can do anything you want if you just claim abuse but they were you know exactly that was the crime environment but he was writing it well and yeah and I mean it was you know this was you know they even say in the documentary

it was like it was like this trial was the precursor was like the setup for the OJ trial and essentially everybody forgot there was like a hung jury and then that they had to like redo the trial, but in between that time, everyone forgot about the whole case because OJ just totally ever shattered it. And I think OJ was an example of just, you know, buying your freedom, essentially, using the court system and lawyers and whatnot. Man, that's really interesting. Yeah, I want to see a movie.

Yeah, Ryan Murphy, make a movie about that guy. About that guy, yeah. Because I think, do you agree, like, that their abuse was a reasonable excuse? Yeah, I mean, to talk about the Menendez brothers and call it the abuse excuse is like, I don't know, I think it's pretty fucked up. Like, you know, so I, right, I think that I think there's so much interesting stuff to look at about that trial. Like the specific ways that we talked about crime at that time where there was this whole victim's rights. This was another thing that Dominic Dunn was pioneering. There was this idea that crime victims had no rights, that crime.

criminals themselves had all the rights, which, but and also this is during, this is like, this is like, this is during the Clinton crime bill and all this like talking about super predators and locking people up forever. There was this huge crackdown on crime because there was this idea that like criminals have run wild and, and, you know, and so there's all these narratives going on at the time that the Menendez brothers thing was happening that, like, that, that suggested that like we should come down harder on criminals. And then you have these two people being like, we were boys who were sexually abused. And our society at that time was like, what?

That's not a thing. By this monster. And again, I think that, you know, I really do point to the fact they could not find a single human being to literally just get up on a stand and be like this guy was a decent guy. Yeah. Or a friend or, like, it just seems like he's a fucking horrific, horrific human being. You know?

And I believe the allegations. So if you put those two things together, I don't think that these guys should be locked away forever or that they are going to go do it again. Right, right, right. Yeah, that's the, I think that revisiting, I think if anything, Ryan Murphy putting, bringing attention to the story and revisiting something like this

after 30 years is interesting, especially because looking back at what the media environment around crime was like then, where it's like, lock people up forever and throw away the key because they're monsters, monsters, monsters, and they have too many rights. And now we have a different framework. which is like the criminal justice system actually usually favors the prosecutor. So maybe we shouldn't like think of locking people up forever until they die. And so I think for that reason,

it's a really interesting story to revisit. But yeah, Ryan Murphy, I think, handled some things in an interesting way. And then some things he just was like, what if they have their own slongs out in the shower together? Because we'll get to that in the leftovers, maybe. But that guy, the one of the act, the guy who played Lyle is just like,

it was my own cock. in that scene. And it's like, yeah. That's right. I forgot about the prosthetics thing. I forgot. I forgot that. That's crazy. Yeah. Weird. Well, in the exact opposite way of what you guys are talking about right now, I did want to tell you both about the movie, which I think that you should both show to your children. And that is the wild robot. We went to go see the wild robot. And it is based on a book series, apparently, which I didn't know about, and I didn't know if you guys were familiar with them with the kids at all. But apparently it is a beloved series. And I knew nothing about it at all going into it.

All I knew is that everyone just kept saying, it's a beautiful movie. And, oh, man, I cried like four times. It is a visually stunning movie. I could tell by the, watch the trailer. Yeah, dude. What an all-star cast. Just at the trailer. Just at the trailer.

Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, dude, a friend of mine was like, Jackie, while I was watching it, all I could think about was how much you specifically were going to cry while watching this movie. But here's the thing. All I could think about was like, who needs to watch this movie is my mother? Because I feel like it is also about like letting your kids go and like being able to like have them go be themselves and learn their own journey. And I was just like cut back to my mom sobbing as she like. left me at college and being like, I cried for three weeks straight, you know, like that's more

of what I was thinking about. But the Wild Robot is a beautiful movie and you guys should definitely show it to the kids whenever you're able to. It's ready to. Good to know. I haven't taken them to the movie theater since Inside Out too. So maybe this will be a good excuse. And it's short too. So at least it's not, you know, the story is not insanely groundbreaking. But it like it's just, so beautiful and so well done. And I cried a lot. Love it. But I also cried a lot at the end, even just, I think it was just because I was reaching the end of the show. And I've been watching this show for about a month and a half. And we finally just finished it. And it's another show that MJ, I feel like your kids might like,

and that is Gravity Falls. And I don't know if we've talked about this. Holden, I know we've talked about this before. You watch Gravity Falls, right, Holden? I do. We have Whizbered an episode on it. So if you want a companion to your viewing of Gravity Falls, we talk about the whole history of it and everything and how it came to be. So yes. And my immediate thought was, I can't wait till Winnie is old enough for me to watch this whole thing with her.

And I essentially, like, I watched a bunch of episodes for that. But I probably would have actually started just watching it, watching it. But I was like, I'm going to wait because this is going to be probably amazing in a few, in like a couple years or whatever when when he's old enough. to get into it. Because it really gets into a lot of weird things that you'd probably have to try and figure out how to explain.

But it is... It's a fun like kids cartoon that's deeply inspired by Twin Peaks and X-Files. Whoa. Yeah. It's really fun. It's like really well done. It's a lot of fun.

And it's like in the world because a lot of people told me because Adventure Time is, I think my favorite cartoon of all time. And a lot of people were like, if you like Adventure Time, I think you will like Gravity Falls. and I fell in love with the characters.

Everyone that told me that I would completely understand the character Mabel and identify with her. You were correct. I was voiced by Kristen Shawl, I see. Oh, my God. But it's like, she's like, rather than Louise on Bob's Burgers, it's like the opposite of that. It's almost like more like a Louise Tina mixture is the Mabel character in this. And I just, and it's funny because Jeff more identified with Gruncle Stan, which I think also makes a lot of sense. And it's just a really good, it was intentionally two seasons.

It is exactly the story that the creator wanted to be told. He knew what he wanted from it. And so even though I'm just like, I could watch this for 25 more seasons, I understand that this is the story. And there's like shorts that you can watch and stuff like that. But they're just little bite size episodes that have so much in them. And the world that they've created is really fun, cool, and weird. Okay. This is, I should, we have like a list of movies.

But oftentimes we're looking for just like grownups. My kids are looking for like a series when they finish a series. And that feeling when you finish a series and you don't know what you're starting next is a terrible feeling. So I should start a running list of like series, especially because they are loving the Simpsons. And so I feel like if they're engaged old enough to be engaged in the Simpsons, we could go with some of the other, we could go towards some of the other like really good cartoon shows. Another big recommend for you, MJ, is Stephen Universe, which. Yes, when my best friend from college loves Stephen Universe, I've been meaning to try to introduce it to that. It's so awesome. There's all these like great like gender themes explored.

And there's even a whole, like, kind of non-binary, like, story plot point with, this fusion of, like, the two, like, Jenners into one character and Steveny, I believe, yeah, right? I'm trying to remember, because we also covered this on Wisbury, but it was a long time ago. But, like, there's, it's so good. And it's such a good conversation starter for so many of that stuff as well. So yeah, I really think like those are the ones, right? Adventure Time, Stephen Universe and Gravity Falls. There's more, there's more, you know, but yeah, those are some strong ones.

We tried to start Avatar the last year better with them. But like we tried like last year when they were like five and four and I think they were a little too young. Maybe a little soon. CB Universe might be better training wheels for because it's also very like anime inspired stuff. It's very like, but it's more magical girl anime inspired. But they've been the gender like it's. like Stevens, this boy who's like three, um, who's like, uh, whose mentors or protectors or whatever are three ladies. Okay. And they kind of, yeah, they switch it on that on it.

They turn that on its head. It's great. It's, it's, I really, really love, uh, Stephen Universe, uh, and Gravity Falls quite a lot. And it's really cool to see like, okay, how, where cartoons have come, how far they've come, um, you know, I mean, I also love the extremely just chaotic insanity and stuff that we got back in the day with like Renan Stimpy and stuff like that, but... Completely. It's cool to... But I'm so happy that, like, Gravity Falls, I would have loved to have seen as a little kid

just to be, like, it's so weird, you know? Mm-hmm. There's just, there's so... Yeah, they're just exploring so much more interesting territory, or at least have been. I mean, these shows have existed for, like, a minute now, so it's not like this is new, but, yeah, it's really cool how far stuff has come with that kind of stuff. Yeah, and it is cool. It's cool because, like, yeah, like, we're... I'm not in the...

I don't have like big kids, but also I don't have toddlers anymore. And it's actually kind of hard to figure out like on. Can they watch? Exactly. When we look at like the kids section of Netflix, there's like a section for like four and under that they're like kind of too old for now. Yeah. But, but you know, so yeah, it's actually, it is kind of like, and they can like, yeah,

they watch the Simpsons. They will, they'll watch like, we've been really enjoying watching like 90s movies with them and stuff. So it is kind of, I'm like, you guys aren't. It's really fun. Yeah. So, but I'm like, yeah. Yeah, part of me wants to just like throw on, you know, you want to watch my little pony,

whatever. But then also, and there are like now like all these new original franchises on Netflix of like Mermaid Academy or whatever the fuck. But like they're, we're getting to the point now where it's like just like we have our list of like good movies that we are watching. Like we can watch like good cartoons together. Hell yeah. I mean one show that you definitely should not be showing your children and that is the penguin

on Max. Now, I know I had brought it up after watching the first episode, but we just caught up on the, like, the last four episodes. Dude, it is so good. And the fourth episode, Santani, lots of people were talking about it online. Everyone was saying, like, Chrisa Milliani just kills this episode. So I was like, well, I got to watch it for this. And now I'm just like, oh, I'm here for this. I am so sucked into it.

It is definitely in a world as if, like, it's just a mob show. It's really not so much about Batman specifically. But Krista Miliotti and honestly, Colin Farrell, everybody's killing it. It's so well written, so well done. And it's just these little hour long, they may as well every episode could be its own movie. I'm really enjoying it a lot more than I thought I was going to. Cool. So highly recommend.

Love Colin Farrell. Yeah, right, dude. And, I mean, he doesn't look good in this, but just knowing that he's doing so well does make you, you know, you're kind of into it. He's in there. That is really a testament to the damage that that Joker movie has done to the world. I like, it's so, I'm going to have to bring myself to watch the Pigwood because of how just, how, what is the ick I have for, like, Batman villain's right now.

I know. But the ick, what is this? Love is blind. We have to. Wait till next week to talk about it because there's no new episodes. I know because they come out today, right? Does it come out today? Wednesday.

We're waiting for it. Now, I will say, I know I'm not going to get into all of the many horror movies that I have been watching, but I do want to bring up two of them because two of them wowed me. And they were two older movies that I can't believe I had never seen before. and I feel like I need to scream it from the mountaintops. And highly recommend, actually, ooh, maybe demons might be good for you, M.J. You and Gideon, maybe it's too gory. Dude, have either one of you seen demons?

I have not. I don't know about him. No. Demons is, do you say, I don't know about him? I mean, Gideon. Oh, got you. I don't know about him. Demons, don't know about him.

I don't know. I thought you were having a Mariah Carey moment. No, I don't know. No, no, I am. No, Demons is from 1985. There's also, I think there's like Demons 2, Demons 3, and it is a Dario Argento movie. And I've seen it on many lists since the beginning of time. I just never got around to watching it. And dudes, demons is so good. And it is about a haunted movie. movie theater that all of these people get trapped inside of and then the movie starts happening inside of the theater that they're all trapped inside of. And apparently Jeff told me, it's a theater in Berlin where apparently every year

they do like horror cons and stuff inside of the movie theater because it's such an iconic terrifying. The movie I thought was going to be schlucky. It's not. It's just genuinely, and I didn't know that they get like trapped as I knew nothing about the movie. I didn't know that they get trapped inside of a movie theater. And the thought of being trapped inside of a movie theater with a bunch of disgusting demons. Like it is splirty. It is violent. I love, in fact, I'm so sad, Holden because Holden's coming over to watch a horror movie this week. And I was like, man, we should have watched demons. Demons was so good. But apparently Demons 2 is almost the exact plot of the first demons and also apparently pretty fun. Nice. And apparently even gory or even crazier.

Okay, I'm going to add it to our Halloween list because Gideon likes a demon movie. He likes a monster movie. He likes that's his flavor. Okay. Demons might be it for him then. It is really good. And that, and in very different way, I watched the OG Wicker Man. Yeah, which is great.

Ted never, have you seen the 1973 Wicker Man? We did it. I think we also did. It's like becoming The Simpsons now with Wizard of the Brewster. Yep, we did an episode on it. Yeah, we did. I believe we did an episode on the Wicker Man. And I really was impressed by the original for sure.

Wow. I knew about the Wicker Man, obviously. I don't live under a bridge. I'm not a troll bitch. Well, it depends on the day. But I know, obviously, Nick Cage and the Bees. And that is what I knew about Wicker Man. Just for you guys to know, no bees in the original.

And in fact, the original has a lot. It's way more mid-Somar than it is anything else. I loved it. I didn't know Christopher Lee was in it. Christopher Lee is fucking great. Oh, that's why I watched. We did an episode on Christopher Lee. Ah, that's why I ended up watching it.

That makes sense. Yeah, we did. That makes sense. You know, he was so great and so many things. Saruman, uh, the horror, uh, Hammer Horror films and, uh, Wicker Man. He's great in it. And yeah, that movie, like, Midsummer's an apt comparison because that movie is a lot about like vibes.

And I think it works really well in the time it was made. because that creepy like 70s, 60s, 70s kind of thing is just so creepy. And I feel like it's because of when it was shot and how it looks and how all the characters look and stuff and everything, I think, like, works for it so well. And they managed to, like, kind of do interesting stuff with, what you should I call it? With, you know, midsummer and gave it kind of this bright, shiny look. but there's this like grimy 70s commune kind of Manson kind of vibe

to it that I think is just great. It's fun. And maybe it was just the 70s, 80s kick. I know I said two movies, but actually I'm throwing a third on there that wasn't even originally on our list. It was on our list last year. We didn't get around to it.

I'd never seen the movie Fright Night. And this is another one, MJ. Have you seen Fright Night? No. Dude. Fright Night is a horrible. comedy. It is a vampire and it is, I thought that it was going to be, the reason why I never watched it because I'm not usually into horror comedies, but I wouldn't even really call it a comedy. I don't know why people call it a horror comedy when it's just a good vampire movie. And Chris and all the like the shit we've been talking about Chris Sarandon and like seeing him in this as a very good, very creepy vampire. and y'all know I've got a soft spot for vampires

and vampire movies and vampire shows and this was a really good one. Yeah, agreed. I put my stamp on it as well. I was, I was good to know. I'm pretty sure. Hell yeah. And for Halloween times.

Salem's Lot, original Sample's Lot took us four nights to finish because it's so long. What did you think, MJ? Original Salem's Lot. I enjoyed it. I talked a lot on our stream about the visible hog of the main character in his 70s pants. Spent a lot of time looking at that visible hog. But no, I enjoyed original Salem's lot.

I'm glad that as I'm writing all these movies down, I think I really, really like 70s and 80s Halloween movies. Like, I think that that's my 90s too. I mean, I enjoy Jennifer's body too. So maybe I like them all. But I just, I really enjoy it. Like it does not. Also, the gore doesn't.

upset me. Yeah. Like the jump scares and stuff. There's something about 70s and 80s, gore and jump scares and stuff that don't, that don't scare me in the same way. We just watched Halloween 2. And I love, I knew I loved Halloween, like one of my favorite Halloween movies. But Halloween 2 is fucking great.

If you like Halloween, you'll love Halloween too because it's the same exact. It picks up. Oh my God. It picks up as a second where Halloween was in the hospital. Why is it three hours long? Salem's Live? It's a mini series. It's a TV miniseries.

It was like it. It was probably the same. Yeah, yes. We were trying to figure it. We were like, why is it edited this way? Yeah. And he was like, oh, I think it was on TV.

Oh, yeah. And I will say, wait, that is right? Is that the same Toby Hooper? No, it's not the same Toby Hooper. I get so excited. I'm just like, oh, it's that, but it's not. But yes, also Halloween, Halloween 2 is like such a fucking banger. Yeah.

Now I think I want to spend the rest of the month doing all the rest of of the Halloween's we like went through completely understand the cool mask movie that's so weird that is the third one is like doesn't have Michael Mike do you know about that season of the witch I love season of the witch I love it it's actually funny I feel like season of the witch feels more like OG wicker man it's just like weird vibe really it's just so strange and it's also got like daddy boyfriend but it's like is it her daddy is it a boyfriend I I love in fact I've got my computer bag is a Halloween 3. It's like the

Silver Shamrock computer bag. I love... We watched the trailers for all of them last night, all the rest of them. Oh, cool. H2O's fun. You know, it's good times. MJ, I don't know if I told you about the Halloween board game that we were playing, but

man, dude, you and Gideon might enjoy it because you get hunted by Michael Myers, and you don't know where he is on the board, and it is genuinely scary to play. But as someone that also loves Halloween, I see you. I hope you feel validated, MJ.

I get it. Keep going. You know what it was? There was one night. It was like, it was a long time ago, 2012 or 2013. Like I was kind of like newly with Gideon.

And it was Halloween night, but I was going to meet up with him later. And Eddie was like, do you want to come over my house and watch scary movies for the first part of your night before you go to your Halloween parties? And I was like, yeah.

And there was other people over there and they were watching Halloween one and I don't think I'd ever seen it before and there's something about watching Halloween and then leaving to like walk to the subway Oh my God, just on the empty street

You're just like, hell no! On the empty streets of Ridgewood I was like, I was so scared and so I was like, I think Halloween, I just like had the perfect, I literally watched it on Halloween night and then had to go out in the streets and walk around on Halloween night

so it like lives in me. That's great. I love it. And then you're just like, oh, God, I just want to like listen to it. And my earbuzz. Just be like, I want to live it. Honestly, I felt completely that way. After seeing the movie, it follows in the theater.

And I remember walking, it was like a late night New York movie. And then I was just walking afterwards. I'm just like, is anyone staring at me? Are people staring at me? Especially in New York when you think someone is just following you or staring at you. They could be anywhere, you know? Yeah, right. You're just worried about getting followed out.

a regular day. Just yeah, just regular. You know, like we learn with Buffy, the real enemy is always man. The real monster is man. Yeah. Or dad or man or whatever. Dad or man. But if you're a man, you are scary. And now last from me, I won't

get into all the other horror movies. Something that we sprinkled on to the end of our night last night on Dropout, there is, it made me think of like a fringe festival kind of show. There is this one woman show called Vanessa 5000 that just dropped.

And it is this woman who is, she must be a dancer or something. She has such control over her body because she's playing a sex robot. And it is as if she is at a like, almost like a con selling herself as a sex robot. And it's genuinely very funny. It is a great character piece.

If you've got dropout, I highly recommend Vanessa 5000. It makes people uncomfortable. It is the kind of character stuff I feel like we used to do with Murder Fist. And it's so fun to see people doing character work like this. And it's obviously something she has honed over a long period of time. And I so thoroughly enjoyed it. I wasn't expecting to because when you first see

a really sexy woman acting like a sex robot I was like no wonder my husband wants to watch the show but then I watched it and I realize I mean I'm also down with watching the show and then it's also just genuinely funny hell yeah cool Vanessa 5,000 Vanessa 5,000

all right I think that's it for me I have to go back and like finish titan and stuff like that and I'm still working my way floor has stalled love is blinds and I have to fucking... Anyways, it's a whole... It's a wonderful life. Uh-oh.

Next week we'll be ready to talk about the... Because there's only, I think, like, one new episode... Yeah, I got to catch up. I got to catch up. So, we'll have time. We've got to watch them make mistakes until they stop making one. Oh, Nick. Nick, you don't know how to boil water, Nick?

Oh, my God. Nick, you know how to cook and you don't know how to boil water? She's so mean to him. She's real mean. No, I know. It sounds like he's... in the wrong because he doesn't know how to boil water, but actually she's in the wrong. She's mean.

Well, yeah, if you're enough of an asshole, then you become the wrong. Wait, what is that woman that like, that her mom was such a bitch? Marissa and Ramsey's. Her mom was such a bitch. Oh, damn in that episode. Oh, good. I was actually entertaining family episode. That's always the worst.

Yeah. Actually the meeting the family episode of these shows is the most boring episode because, like, They introduce all these new characters, but, like, you don't really have time for them to, like, be interesting or... No, the family's ones are... In fact, Hannah, the one who's, like, really mean, her family is like, you know, you're pretty mean. And if we...

And he seems really nice. Yeah, they're like, he seems great. And she's like, there's a couple things that are annoying about him, but... I'm not mean. That's just my personality. I'm just a bit. You know, just like, no, it's not. And literally her family goes, well, if we put you out for all the things that we're

annoying about you, you'd be. be out of the family too. It was like, wow, parents. Yikes. Okay. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, it's ridiculous. All right, let's do it. Let's get out of it. Let's sing the song. Let's sing the song. Talk a TV with MJ Holden and Jackie. Talking TV and you know it's going to get wacky because everybody knows what everyone knows. And everybody knows. We're watching shows.

We're talking TV with MJ Holden and Jackie. All right. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors. You can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.