Page 7 - Talkin' TV - Get Spooky

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

This week on Talkin' TV Holden, Jackie, and MJ get into the gut-wrenching yet hilarious road trip captured in Will and Harper, causing everyone to reflect on their own experiences in rural areas of America, The Golden Bachelorette should just be named SAD MEN BEING SAD AND MAKING EVERYONE SAD! Adult Swim helps bring master horror manga creator Junji Ito's Uzumaki to the small screen with a 4 part series currently spiraling it's way onto Max. Jackie will scream it from the rooftops, WATCH THE SUBSTANCE, it has a great twist you WON'T see coming, MJ throws a call out for YOUR FEELINGS on the new Ryan Murphy incest show "Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story." Jackie gives fat suited gross foot Colin Farrell as the Penguin a chance and loves it, and Holden's throwing out his rec of Netflix's new Vince McMahon doc "Mr. McMahon", Jackie slaps on down her rec of the new Saturday Night Live biopic "Saturday Night", while MJ is still lovin' Agatha All Along and MORE! Will and Harper - NetflixGolden Bachelorette - HuluUzumaki - NetflixThe Substance - IN THE THEATAHHHHHHHMonsters: The Lyle and Eric Menendez Story - NetflixPenguin - MaxVince Mcmahon - NetflixSaturday Night - IN THE THEATAHHHH Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

with MJ Holden and Jackie Talking TV And you know it's gonna get wacky Because everybody knows And everybody knows we're watching shows We're watching shows We're talking TV with MJ Holden and Jackie There we are

Was up Did I start, did I accidentally hit my microphone And did my iTunes start playing in the middle of me singing the song where we're all trying to coordinate our singing this did? I gave you my curse because I give you my stupid curse. Holden has cursed me.

I'm a house of nuns over here and you're Katie Perry. I'm very upset with you, Holden, that you have put your phlegm all over my existence because I didn't even get to talk about on the big show, the fact that I didn't get to go to the Orville Peck concert over the weekend. And at least I will say, he has lost his voice, so he canceled his shows over the weekend,

and it made me very sad, although I want him to feel better and I would rather him take the time off to actually feel better so he could actually heal. The only issue is that this is now the second time because the first time, even though it was not his fault, was in April of 2020. And I am upset because now this is two times that I have,

but this time though, I was like, we were putting on our fun fits. It was that, it was that, it was literally like two hours before the show started. Oh, that's sad. And I was so sad. Because we had had, like, dinner plans. We were, like, going to do this whole thing. We had a whole night. But it was fine. We pivoted. We know how to, like, make lemonade alums.

And we did, and we figured it out. But I just want to say thank you to everybody who sent me out messages of support and love because y'all knew how excited I was about going to the Orville Peck concert that I did not get to go to. Well, now I have to see. in New York just to spite you? Even though I would never want to spite you, I'm sorry. I'm not, I have no reason to spite you.

I'm fine with it. I can take it. I can handle the spike. I'm just motivated by spite, even though I have absolutely zero malice towards you whatsoever. I'll take your iron. Can we get hardware?

It's talking TV and I think all of our hearts were warmed as Will and Harper dropped on Netflix. Oh my God. I'm gonna cry to the whole. Oh, it's just so good. It's so good. It can be eye-roly to say this sometimes these days, like, you know, just like kind of, I'm so, you know, so brave or whatever. Also can get eye-roly as it's misused, but this really is an important documentary.

Yeah. It's really, really cool. Like, really, really just knew I was going to love it. Yes. And it just absolutely was amazing. And, you know, Will Farrell has just seemed. seems so genuine in it. For those of you that don't know about Will and Harper,

it's this movie that just dropped, and the explanations, when Will Farrell finds out his close friend of 30 years is coming out as a trans woman, the do decide to embark on a cross-country road trip to process this new stage of their relationship in an intimate portrait of friendship and transition. And it is beautiful.

I actually meant to write up notes about it before we talked about it, because I feel like there is so much to say. But yeah, It's on Netflix. It just came out a few days ago. The trailer is beautiful and like the movie delivers just as much as the trailer does. And it's like what I love about it is I feel like, you know, thinking about my own experience with like coming out.

There's what it's, it really explores Will Ferrell's. It's not discomfort, but it is like Will Ferrell's like, Will Ferrell's like this. growth. Yeah, growth and like curiosity. Yes. And like, like vulnerability. Vulnerability and worry in a way because Will Ferrell's like, what does this mean for our friendship?

It might mean nothing, but also I like want to recognize that this is a change in my friend's life. And then for Harper, she's like I, she articulates it so well. She's like like this both feelings at the same time. She's like, well, people see me as a different person. I'm afraid of that. But then I'm also afraid that people won't see me as a different person. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, and they, I feel like they really, and so it's, there's the kind of twofold thing going on in the movie is both, what's it like to be a trans woman in America, especially because Harper, like,

has this history of doing road trips, um, and going to like dive bars in small towns and rodeos and things like that and like NASCAR and like that's just what she has always loved to do. But this is her first time doing it post-transition and she's like kind of afraid. And so like one, one project is what is it like to be, you know, a kind of a visibly trans person in America. She's post-transition, but she talks about, you know, sometimes passing and sometimes not.

And then also, in addition to that, it's them in the car talking. And I just, both parts are beautiful, like them in the car in the car talking. And Will Ferrell is just like asking all the questions that, you know, he's like, is it okay if I ask you questions? And she's like, yeah, of course I want to talk about this. Please ask me. Yes, I love for you to ask me questions. And she even said, like, I think that she phrased it, anyone who I love and who loves me, I invite to ask me any question you've got.

Totally. And it's like, and I feel like that's just so amazing because I feel like, you know, I'm lucky enough to have had really only exclusively positive experiences. And I've seen people from different parts of my life, you know, and it's, I really am just so lucky to have, like, not like lost anybody. And she talks about how afraid she was of losing people. you know, seeing people from her, she was a head writer at SNL, and so seeing people from her old life and stuff. But there's just something about Will Ferrell being like, can I just

ask you all the things that I'm wondering about? And having that be kind of part of the movie. And, you know, and so Will Ferrell asks like a lot of like kind of, you know, basic questions, like asks about surgery and asks about hormones and asks about how long have you felt this way. It asks about childhood and asks about their kids. And had that. Suicidal ideation. Yeah. At all, like so many things. And it's just like such an amazing, I feel like, and it's in the trailer, but one of my favorite conversations is Harper being like, were you afraid to talk to me afterwards? And Will Ferrell was like, yeah, a little bit because I was like worried that I would make a mistake. And she's like, well,

I know there's no like malice coming from you. So you could never, nothing you say, whatever. I would never, even if you made a mistake or said the wrong thing, I would never take it the wrong way because I know you love me. And it's just like, it's like, it's like a conversation. You're giving me jingles just talking about it. Like, it is. So, like, I just feel like when you watch a movie like this, that it's so important to talk about our relationships. Like, this is so, like, we, people need to see this. Yes.

Yes. Like, thank you for making this film. Like, this is, it's weird to watch a movie. Like, everyone needs to be watching this. Yes. Every single person needs to be watching this. Right. Everybody would benefit.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Obviously, you know, with the like election coming up, I've, I've been thinking a lot. about why people think the way they think and are the way they are. And, you know, we talked about this. I don't think into a microphone. I think it was like before a session. I've been thinking a lot lately about how unfortunately it's just a sad reality that, and I don't know if this is a humanity thing or more, more associated with like America and the way Americans are. But, you know, it really seems like a sad truth is that people don't tend to have empathy or mindfulness or understanding of things that aren't right in front of them.

Yeah. You know? And so often it takes being friends with someone who is trans or having someone in your day-to-day life, you know, I think about the guy who collected clan robes. The black guy who went around and just befriended clan members and literally was taking the robes off of their backs as they became friends with him and just had someone in their life that was black that was, you know, someone they, they befriended and could talk to. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, there's even less trans people,

far less trans people, you know, so it's a really easy thing for, for, for people to fearmonger about, and people to be scared of, yes, yes, podcasters or whatever to sit and go, they're, they're, they're taking things over and they're in your kids' bathrooms. Totally. You know what I mean? And just fearmonger. And I think, you know, that's, what's what's happening with, uh, immigrants right now as well, right? Like we're seeing the same thing because they're this kind of unseen force that you can just create, you know, when it's just like plainly not true.

Everybody in Springfield is like, we love our Haitian community. Totally. You fucking maniacs. Like, what do you talk? You're not here. If your kids go to school with it with immigrant families, you know that this is like not something that you're upset about. This is you share community with people.

It's in your reality. Yes. So unfortunately, it's like you have to bash people over the head. And it's something that people should be able to just accept it. We should just be accepting human beings. But the sad reality is you need these, you know, you need documentaries like this and you need people out in the world, you know, in people's lives and stuff to just normalize these things. And it's just such a sad reality that like now we just have, they just picked a smaller community

that's less like around and created this like satanic panic essentially. It's like this trans panic thing, you know. Absolutely. I think that's such a good point. And I feel like so much of the progress in the last 20 years that has been made for like, I mean, which is loaded to say, because obviously a lot of that progress is being clawed back. But with that the progress that has been made on the LGBT front in terms of like gay marriage and just generally like obviously the mainstream cultural attitudes around gay people are quite different now than they were 20 years ago or 30 years ago. Right. And I think. think a lot of that could be credited to the kind of like Harvey Milk strategy of like come out because if they're if you have a queer person in your family and you love them like that is what's going to change you know which is what you're saying Holden and I feel like it's you're right it's like trans people are such a tiny percentage of the population yet they're taking this huge outsized role politically they're going to they're going to take over your kids school and

make your kids it's like fucking is going to go to school and come back a different gender and all this Which is ridiculous. Right. And I feel like that is so one way. But then I was curious about your thoughts on like the portion of the movie, MJ, when like the, when she was talking to the therapist when they were at the Grand Canyon. Yeah. And the therapist was like, oh, I had a client, like I had a patient. Love that moment.

Yeah. Yeah. That was that like now I realize and I look back that they are trans and I didn't realize. And like at the time the conversation was so. different and like you could tell that she was ashamed. But then do you feel that like a part of me saw in that moment that it was like almost like she was looking to Harper for an apology. For forgiveness. For forgiveness. And I was happy that Harper didn't. Yeah. Harper was like, yeah, I had a bad therapist too. Yeah, I had a bad therapist too. And like, yeah. And it really, I'm sure it held me back.

Yeah. And like it just like I was happy for that conversation because like I wonder, do you ever feel like it's placed upon you to do the educating like that or to, like to give forgiveness to somebody. Have you experienced that in your life? That's an interesting question. Yeah, I was, I was, I actually wasn't thinking about that scene in particular, but that is such a good point that that, that woman is definitely like, it has clearly been like, has held on to this memory. Like I.

It's obviously very much upset her. I just do this well. And it's interesting that the therapist says this because. By this point in the movie, Harper has spoken several times about having had a therapist and, like, talked about her feelings to this therapist and the therapist, like, shutting it down and being like, that's not, we're not, you're not doing that. And, yeah, I mean, but it also reminded me of the conversation that we had on one of these shows recently.

Maybe it was when we were talking about Stevo, actually, and how the cashier had talked to Steveo and been like, what you're doing is, like, tapping into a trans panic that you might not be aware of. Yeah. And we were talking about how. awesome it was that the cashier did that, but there's this kind of idea of like, you know, I don't, people don't owe you anything or it's, or, or, or, or a more nuanced version of that is like, it's not, it's never on the oppressed to educate the oppressor.

But what I just love about this movie about Will Farrell asking Harper, if she wanted to make this movie is it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, complete allieship, like, 101 primer. It is Will Ferrell being like, I have the most, like, I have fame. I can weaponize my fame and my wealth to make a movie with you so that you can tell your story. Right. And like there's a scene where she goes into a bar that like a dive bar in Oklahoma and she's really worried because she hasn't done this since she transitioned. And she's worried she's going to get clocked and that it's going to be bad. And there are fuck Biden flags on the walls and Trump stuff.

There's reason to believe that this might not be a friendly space for her. And Will Ferrell is just standing outside the bar waiting for her. And I feel like the film to me is a great example of both like Harper being willing to have these conversations on camera, which understandably many people might not want to do that. And there also might be people who have transitioned who are like, I don't actually want my friends to ask me all these questions. Like, of course, that's going to be personal. It's going to depend on the... Completely fair. Like, the fact that each of them, the fact that Will Ferrell wanted to do it this way, and the fact

that Harper was like, at least as they frame it in the documentary, that Will Ferrell was just like, what if we did this? And Harper's like, okay. And so that she's like, yeah, ask me anything, like anything, even the things you're too embarrassed to ask about. Ask me about bottom surgery. You know, ask me about my breasts. Like, ask me about all these things.

And I feel like it is emotional labor, you know, for her to do that. and I think it's very cool that she did that. Almost for the greater good. I think that she also knew that, like, this is important for everyone to know. Right, right. Yeah, exactly. From her perspective.

Exactly. And yeah, it's tough. I think that sometimes, like, if I see people from a long time ago or different, like, I just went to a work reunion last weekend, and everybody was amazing. And you're about to go to your high school reunion. And the work reunion was,

I was a little nervous about it because I was Miss Molly at work, you know, like, and everybody, like, we all, everybody knew me as Miss Molly. The kids knew me as Miss Molly. Like, I'm sure if I ever saw those kids. those kids, you know, I'm always miss Molly to them, you know. And so I was like, okay, this is going to be a little different to see my work friends. But like everybody was totally down to call me MJ and, you know, like it was totally, totally good and fine. And I, but I also wonder,

yeah, I'm going back to my high school reunion next weekend, which will be a slightly different story. But I think that sometimes people, I think sometimes, I wonder sometimes if people are worried about asking me about my experience or don't want to bring it up or sometimes it feels like a bit of an elephant in the room. Like I've seen people and I'm like, I'm MJ now. And I think that some people are like, well, this doesn't define you. And so let's talk about everything else. And that's understandable. And then I think so it becomes like the number one story. Or right. Right. Right. And so I think it's just that's another one of the things that I found so moving of just Will Ferrell being like, can we talk about this? Like I'm wondering about this. Is it okay if I ask you everything? And I

just think that's so nice. On Wizard and the Bruiser, we find all those crazy little moments in geek history that made the things we love into inescapable cultural behemates. If you love video games, movies, comics, and anime, this is the LPN show for you. But wait, Holden, it's not just educational. Shouldn't we talk about all those crazy boner jokes we make all the time? No, Jake. No, we will not.

Fair enough. Last Podcast Network presents Wizard and the Brue. roozer. Find it on your favorite podcast app and hit that little subby-dovey button. Ooh, we would love it if you did that. Oh, that would help us out so much. God, wouldn't you love to do that? Don't I sound like the kind of person you want to help? Like, hit the button. Like, just do it. There was so much consent in both ways. Like, it was such a beautiful, just to watch their friendship and just to also be so thankful that, like, while watching that, I was like, I have these friendships in my life. And I'm so thankful that we are. We are. We are.

all have the relationship that we have because like not everybody even just thinking like not everybody has a friend that would be willing to do something like that totally oh yeah i don't think because i have a pretty open mind i don't i don't know that it would be that drastically different but i do wonder that if mj wasn't in my life at what you know my my thoughts would be right because it's just been so normalized and just completely like i feel very like like benefited by and lucky to have that situation in the face of when people are like, you know, but I love my sweet mother who there's just a trans person at the coffee shop she goes to and she's very concerned with using the right pronouns and treating them very like normal and like, you know, all the, and accepting and all that

kind of stuff, you know, and so, you know, but, but still, it's been very helpful to have that, have a very strong trans community in my chat. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so that with this shit gets talked about, you know. And, and, and, and, and. And, but it's frustrating, but I also get the, this is the thing that pisses me off. Oh, I've got to do all this work for you to feel okay. Right. You're the fucking lucky one.

You've never felt trapped in the wrong body. You've never had to keep a secret about yourself. Yeah. You know what I mean? You've never had to experience dysphoria in that way. Yeah. And it's so obnoxious. It's like, oh, I have to do all the fucking work.

You turn. It's so fucking annoying. It's like you got to just. They already did the work. You got to just be straight and white and rich. And I have to, you know what I mean? Like, go fuck your. It's so, I get it.

I get feeling so frustrated at like, at that whole situation. But that's what it is. Like that guy who went around and collected clan robes. He was worked his ass off to make that happen. He did all the fucking work. Yeah. You know, and they just sat back and, you know, were enlightened, you know. It's, it really, it's, that's so.

that's so real. And like especially for me, like I, first of all, I think it's important to center that being a trans femme, I think is actually like very like Harper's and I think a uniquely challenging position. Especially a 60 year old. A 60 year old, 60 year old, a 61 year old trans femme. Right. Like, you know, because they were even talking about with the bottom surgery like, well, I'm so, I'm at this stage in my life and broke my heart. Right. Right.

You know? That was so upsetting to be like, I don't know, it's so late for me. Yes. you know, when I'm looking and making these decisions. And it's such a bummer. You have so much life to live. And that, and it really is,

yeah, it was an amazing experience to watch. And even if you only have two weeks of it, do it. And she says, you know, she says that ever, I mean,

one of the most amazing lines of the movie is she's like, ever since I transitioned, all I want to do is live, you know, but like I, it's like I, yeah, it was really,

I, and also I'm in a, I feel like I, I sometimes struggle to like claim, I have a lot of imposter syndrome and I struggle to like, claim trans identity because I'm not binary and I'm like I'm not on tea and so I don't really pass in public and so I don't think I actually experience a lot of transphobia because I think

people just don't clock me as different. I think people just think I'm a woman with short hair most of the time but but Gideon's like I don't think that's true I think people do clockly but anyway like I it it was amazing to hear a trans person talk about all of these things with a cis best friend and kind of process it and like I'm like kind of pronoun fluid because I feel like if I sometimes I want to just be he and not they but I don't think that anyone would ever do it and because I don't think I would pass and I have like a lot of I still deal with like a lot of self doubt and self correction and stuff and so to like have a harper just be like you know if you make a mistake with me that's okay like and and and and and and harper asks will like

do you see me as my previous who you previously knew me as or do you see me as a new person and like or not a new person but but as harper right yeah when they're at dinner in Vegas and Will's like, I've spent, having spent so much time with you now, like it's like your, it's like my brain updated. And now I just see you as the updated version of the real you.

Right. I didn't know who, that it was you the whole time. Yeah, it's how I feel with you, you know. Yeah. Yes,

completely. Yeah, but it's just like so, it's just so amazing for somebody at 61 years old to be like, to go, to go back to all these famous people and be like, by the way, you have to use she pronouns with me.

Because I, she mentioned like Harper's, a writer on SNL, like a really successful, you know, I think head writer at one point. The head writer. Yeah. You know, yeah. Like, that's why, that's why Harbour's dealing with going to a bunch of famous people. You know, and there's a scene where it's like Tina Faye and Seth Myers and Colin Joss.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, I feel like it's a little bit awkward to like be like, you could you use they sometimes, but she is also fine to like regular people who've known me forever. and there's just something about being like, hello, movie star. Right. I'm coming out to you, even though you're, you're world friends, but there's just, it's just, it is really a powerful experience to watch, I think,

as a cis or a trans person. I think the more important moment for me, because it's like, well, Will Ferrell's just going to come in and make it, you know, and kind of have, give that, you know, give that boost to everything. So it's almost like a cheat code for this project a little bit, but then you get to, I think it was Dallas. Oh my God. At that.

And that was, and I was, and in a way, it's like, I hate to say that in a way I was like thankful for that moment, but only just because like, I think it needed to be in there that like, this is such a stark reality of what it's like for people like Harper to go in a certain space. It was, I mean, we were joking about it. When we went to Texas, you were like, I don't know, guys, I might get gay bashed. Yeah, we were like, you know what I mean? Right.

We were kind of. But it was like a real. thing when we were going into certain spaces with you, you know, there was a little bit of a thought of like, hey, I'm like, I might have to like, but also I was ready to throw the fuck down. I was ready to throw. Just a case. And we didn't really have issue, you know, but it was a thought. And so do I think to show like, yeah, dude, you can be in really volatile spaces, you know, and it does even, even with Will Ferrell there. The movie does such a good. good job of that too. Because when we were on tour, I also felt really weird about that because I'm like,

everywhere we go has queer people. Our audience is all queer people living in these states. So like, I don't want to be like, I can't go to Oklahoma. Right. But we would stop off at a weird hole in the wall on some random town. Right, right. In between while we're driving. Frumpy Joe. They're just so, oh, God, wait, what was he? What was it? Jumpy Joe's? Amazing. Yeah, Frumpy Joe's. Amazing. Yeah, Frumpy Joe's. But yeah, I mean, we would go places where I was like, this and I just you like just the way we just all of us oh yeah you know what I mean yeah no for sure yeah the movie also does a Jewish Jake we've got yeah we got you got got a got slutty jack yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah sexual yeah yeah and I'm just annoying but you know what I'm

yeah no the movie oh yeah movie does a great job of being like yeah you can actually go into this random dive bar and a And everybody will be like, oh, I'm sorry, I misgendered you. Like, and then also you can go to a fucking Pacers game and have a million horrific tweets about you. Oh, God. It does a great job of being like, you should not assume that all of these places are filled with bigots, which you shouldn't, right?

And that there are like, and the person at the NASCAR rally who's like, hey, if you love it, keep coming, you know. With him and his son too. And he's so nice. That was so nice. But then it does also totally. There is this moment where you realize actually it's not all good. And Will Ferrell is like feels so.

I feel like that's the first time it hits him. Yes. Oh, this is really, really, really unsafe for you. And he gets emotional. Yeah, he gets emotional. This fucking sucks. It's ridiculous. Yeah.

It's just such a good. I cannot recommend it highly enough. Like watch it with your family. If you know, watch it. Just watch it with your teen kids. And if your family's dead, dig them up. I'm serious. And get them out of the ground.

And also dig them up and maybe they can be contestants on next year's the Golden Bachelor. Oh, my Lord. Because everybody, we are going to be talking about the golden bachelor. The saddled man show who has made me watch. Is there for a different reason? Yeah, there's an episode too. It's just getting sadder and sadder old. Don't worry.

What are you talking about? I love it. Love it. I love every moment of it. I'm caught up. I watched. Yeah, there's only two episodes. I've watched the two.

I figured maybe there was. a third at this point. I can't, why are you guys making me watch this? This is so, I love it. Every man, even if they're smiling or whatever, there's such a deep sadness in all of their eyes. They made his tremor work for the talent, okay? Start watching it.

That guy is the saddest eyes, and either their wives are dead, or they've been lonely for the past 10 plus years. Why are you so angry about that? Because you just reignited a fucking fear of getting old for me that I didn't think I had. I was like, I like, I like the idea of turning 60. I like the idea of like just living in a cozy cottage. Now all I can think about is the fact that it's just going to be me holding Lexi's hand while she's withering away in a hospital or alone.

I know. That's what love is Holden. You should have known that before you got married. That's just citing a death sentence, right? And it's like, no, no, no, because we have kids. Well, guess what? MJ, every time they talk about their kids, they talk about how important. they are to them, but there's this deep, deep despair because they're no longer their lives

because they had to grow up and move on. And the kids are just begging them to not be sad and lonely anymore. And they're like, we can't do anything for you because we have to have our own lives, but go on this dumb show and this fucking one in a hundred chance at love. You're going to say that you scream like this towards Charles, who is the cutest, and then he loved his wife as well. Charles, I can't believe he made it past the second episode because I thought that maybe his heart might be too good.

But, you know, apparently, I think, I'm going to say what I'm learning out of all of this, I want to have sex with Joan. I think I'm falling in love with Joan. Sure. Yeah. She's amazing. Joan is a self-possessed woman. Bachelorette.

Yeah, she's the bachelorette. Yeah, no, she is, she's great. At first I was like, this woman is a little bit, like, conducting all of, Alexa. A little bit of Alexa. No, she's like, she's conducting all of these interviews as if it's like a job interview, you know, like, um, And, but you know what?

It is because there's 24 men. She's still in love with her husband. Yeah, she's still in love with her husband. There's no. They all are. I know. They all are. This is a charade.

This is nonsense. But that's how they connected. But also I, how dare she get rid of cannonball jack? Because that man needed more time in the mansion. She literally was the, I think you should leave sketch. He was the Jim Robbins and sketch.

With the zip line. All he was there for was some drink and swim. swim and eat food. That's what he was saying for. No whips answer butts about it. He didn't give up fun. He just wanted to hang with his boys. He liked the guys, I think, way more.

My problem is I wanted to just, I know you shouldn't make fun of a person because of their name, but it's really difficult for me to not allow to make fun of chalk because it was like, you're really going to be in love with a man named chalk. But then we watched the date that they

went on. And I was like, Jackie, you're being a bitch right now. because Chalk is a very nice man. Or maybe he's a little boring, but he needed to just show a little bit of his young side at Disney World, okay? Yeah, yeah. I mean, there was a, there's just sadness in every direction. Here's the impression of the Disney World.

Disney, thank you so much. I feel like I'm 12 again. Martha, I loved you so. It's, I want to die. Chuck didn't do that. I want to try. I'm just, You didn't even mention the prom

and all of them are like, I didn't go to my prom. And that poor boy who went to a racist high school and no one would go to prom with him. I'm just like, everyone's child, and then the rest of the men were just like, oh, great time of my prom.

I'm just like, it is just a trauma. Exactly, I committed crimes at my prom. Like, just an onslaught of trauma. It is, chalk, I'm glad they went to Disneyland, okay. And we all know, I'm falling in love with Gary, the one that calls her sunshine and the one with the bright gold jacket that she gave him the picture of the two of them at prom. He's so sweet that I'm like, something's going on with you. He's so, like, he's just like, I can't believe she gave me a bit. Like, he's like crying about the, I want to die.

Holden, maybe I'm just going against you a lot today, and I don't mean to be coming at you. No, that's the show. I just feel like it's nice to see that they're trying again. Right. You can love and you can tell yourself you will never love again, but you don't need to be closed off. I don't know if competing with a bunch of other hot dudes is the way to do it, but you know, whatever gets you out of the house. I think the reality is a little more like Milf Manor when it comes to the guys that, find themselves, you know, in these situations at this point in their life, potentially.

And I think this is like such an idealized version of these types of guys. But at the same time, maybe it truly is just a testament to the fact that all men become so much more emotional and in touch with like who they, their sweeter, softer side. For the first time when they turn 60. Yeah, when they turn, it's just so, but it's sad. For the first time. It saddens me so much. It is sad.

I guarantee you these guys were very different 30 years ago. My husband is 36 and he has this. Well, it's different now. You can find it. You can find it. You can find it. Person as well, you know, so it's, and I'm thankful for that. But this generation of men was not allowed, I mean, going back to Will and Harper,

I mean, this is a generation of, this generation was not allowed to do anything except adhere to a certain standard of masculinity. Right. And so now they're like, and also, I do think a big difference between this and Milf Manor is that the Milf Manor dilfs were all devoured. divorced, and most of these men are widows. Yes. And that's just such a difference.

Like, all the milk banners dudes. There's like a reason why you're divorced. We're like, my wife left me because I'm a dog. Yeah. And all of these men were like, I lived with the love of my life for decades. And I miss her so much. And now I'm hurt. And it's refreshing to see that it seems, I don't know, I'm not, this is, by the way,

I should also throw this bomb down. Like, I've never watched a bachelor before. And I, we're all new. We're all new to it. And I'm sure this is extremely different from the younger bachelor. There's a lot more contentious. and competition, especially on a season where it's like, well, I bet what the ladies do. But like, you know, guys are awful and they're animals, especially when they're like a lot younger, right?

And not in touch with their emotions like this. Like they inevitably become when they get older. And so I feel like this is a very different version of The Bachelor than like the normal situation. But still at the same time, it is refreshing. It seems like they handpicked not just like a bunch of people to be like, this will make good television. But they actually are trying to pick very sweet. sweet soft men for this woman to potentially fall in love with instead of just trying to create making casting choices for the drama.

I will say Kim is definitely, you can tell Kim, who's the retired Navy captain. I liked that he was the one that, like, fixed that he immediately like fixed the sink. And I like that. But then you could see him getting like agro that he didn't get picked. And that made all the hair on the back of my next stand up. And I was like, how don't you dare bring that energy. to Joe. She does not deserve it. Yeah, I mean, these men, it is worth remembering that these men might be unreliable narrators of exactly what a good man they are, even though they are,

they all seem like very sweet. But yeah, it is a wild emotion. I find the Golden Bachelorette to be an extremely emotional experience. It's really weird. Yeah, it's like more, it's somehow more emotional than Will and Harper. I don't know, because they're just such sad. men. So sad. So sad. And none of them. And you'll never get over it, you know, so it's just what it is. But none of them are, I think, in a good place with their dead wives. But I think there should be more, I just want there to be more women for them, which maybe, I know that's not the premise of the Bachelorette. But I'm just like, I would watch a show about good elders. Yes, like, find the good men in their 60s and the good women in their 60s and let them mingle. Because

I just feel the sadness is compounded by the knowledge that most of these men aren't going to end up with a companion. Most of these guys are going to go home and they're just like, well, at least I got to be here for even if a day. It's just like, God, kill me now. No, no, it's nice. It's nice. I just want to die. God. I know.

But I'll keep watching because I'll just keep just, I don't even know how to describe this. It's not hate watching, but I'm not enjoying myself. So I don't know what you would call it. Yes. I wish happiness for all of them. I wish them love. I genuinely do. Exactly.

That's the thing. I genuinely do wish. Or that maybe the Lord just takes them. No. Don't see it. What? Maybe that's okay. I believe in life after love, Holden.

I believe. Believe in love. Lord. I believe in love after death. Maybe there'll be a reuna anyways. But can we get spooky here? Can I talk about a spooky thing for two years? It's spooky.

Yeah, it's spooky. Baby, baby, Uzumaki has come to Mok's Ouzumaki. One of my favorite manga writers is like comic books in Japan. If you don't know manga, manga, you may have heard it. I don't even know what it did. I say manga.

I will say if you like spooky, I really, really enjoy Usumaki. Yeah, and the work of Junji Ito. It's Uzumaki who is probably one of my favorite manga, works. It is, uh, Junjito is exclusively a horror, uh, mangaka. And again, it's like a cartoonist or something like in America. You know what I mean? And, um, uh, my favorite of his works is Uzumaki. Uh, if you want to see a short story, um, the longest dream or, um, the, oh, what's it called? The something of the fault or whatever. He does really good horror short stories. Um,

but Usumaki, like, I just couldn't put it down when I read it. And it's a, it's a pretty thick. work. It goes fast. Also, watch the Junji Ito. That's what it's called Maniac. Junji Ito Maniac. The Japanese Tales. They've got the other Netflix like shorts. Which I enjoyed, but I really like this. This is... Because it's...

It's a pretty like one-to-one adaptation of the look of his work. It's all black and white and that's what he does. And it just really is like, wow, it looks like they just scanned this fucking thing in and like made it move. And it moves, it moves fast.

It's about a town that becomes obsessed with spirals. And spirals, like, take over the town. Taking over. And a lot of times, his longer works, like, Tomia is about this, like, lady that seduces men and kills them. And, you know, a lot of the formats of his longer works are kind of still, like, almost like a collection of short stories because, like, that interweave with each other. And so this is, this is exactly that. So you sort of can break things down into smaller bits. but he just finds anything that might have a spiral,

he finds a cool horror twist on it. Like there's this like sluggy guy that's gross and he's playing off of the spiral on a snail shell, right? To kind of tell that story. Weird. Yeah, he's using like, um... It's fun. It's so good.

And there's spirals everywhere. Like on every frame, they're just everywhere. And every... It's beautifully done. And it's really cool looking. It's really eerie. And I just love e-love it. And I've been looking forward to this for a long time.

This was announced like forever ago. Adult swim is involved, which is weird to me. Because what even is adult swim at this point? But yeah, they're involved in the production. And I just love it. And it's on Max. There's only one episode out so far, which is killing me. It is only 23 minutes long.

I think Gideon would probably think this was really interesting. Yes. I know Jeff's a big Gingito fan. Oh, yeah, Jeff was all over this. On top of this, I was pretty sure you would have seen this by the time we did talking TV. Definitely, definitely give Uzumaki a shot and read it too. It is really, really just one of my favorite things. Like, I'm so happy that this thing exists because although I like Maniac, I still feel like

his works have never been fully done justice in an anime form, like truly, truly. And this is feeling like that. This is like, wow, this is really, you know, I think Maniac can be kind of hit or miss a little bit. In other words, a bunch of different shorts. And some are really pretty strong and some aren't. But this so far is like, oh, I think they're nailing this. And it's very cool. And it's creepy.

Hell yeah. And if we're talking creepy deepy, now I brought it up last week. And so obviously I must give my review of the substance this week. Hell yeah. Everyone's screaming about it. Modern horror at its fucking finest. It is so good.

It is so good. If you do not like body horror, it is It's not the movie for you. I repeat. There is so much body horror. There are moments that even my stomach gets turned. And I do not have an easy stomach to turn. Please, MJ.

It's a 101 clarifying question. What is the difference between body horror and what you mentioned on the big show, torture horror? Torture porn. Torture porn. So torture porn is like, let's say, like the movie hostile. Yeah. where you're seeing gratuitous violence of slow violence, and it's mostly all that.

So it's just you're so inundated by the violence that it's like, okay, that's interesting. Now, I don't, that is in like almost like actually torturing people. Body horror is the actual, like, squelching, disgusting ways of, like, either things becoming anthropomorphic or, like, becoming more monstrous in your body. So it actually... Cronenberg's a big one. Like, the fly would probably be the best example you might have been familiar with of body horror.

Like where your body's like actually changed. It's like, it's almost like those dreams where your body's like falling apart and stuff, you know, in this way, yeah. Like the thing. Didn't you see the thing last year? That's body horror. Yes.

Oh, okay. That is, you know, that has body horror elements. I wouldn't say it is like only a body horror movie. I was just trying to think of something that you have seen. Totally. Like, I love titan. Dita is very much not for everybody also, and it's Taitain, but I like to say, Tita. But the substance, it may, like, I know they were going to talk about this probably in the leftovers.

But Demi Moore, I do believe that this is Demi Moore's best performance I have ever seen. Wow. She is unbelievable in this movie. It is long, too, but you don't feel it. Like, we got out of the theater and looked at our watches. oh my god i had no idea we were in there for that long marguit quali is also really fucking she is man killing the game of talk about being a nepo that is just doing everything right she is doing so good and this movie was surprising i had like i i think of what was what did jeff lean over and say of like

yeah called that ending and i was like no you he's like no i didn't obviously was making a joke um no Nobody calls the ending of the movie The Substance. If you like body horror, if you like just horror in general, because there are, you know, sometimes you can't shut off the squelching that you can hear in your ears, but you can look away from some stuff. It's worth it. The substance is so good. Okay. Yeah. I mean, everyone's fucking loving it.

Is it in theaters only or is it streaming? It is only in theaters right now. But it is like, it just, I love to see modern horror. kill it. You guys know that I feel like I say it almost too many times of like with horror movies I just want them to be trying something and man substance does

and it succeeds. Well I've been watching the Ryan Murphy Menendez Brothers show. Oh shit yeah is it worth a look see? You know I just it's like I've it's one of these things where like this is the exact type of show I like I really liked Ryan Murphy was the one who did the OJ one

from a few years ago right? Yeah, was he? Yeah, which I really enjoyed. Yeah, I really, really liked it. But I feel like people have really, really strong feelings about Ryan Murphy, and I feel like there's a lot of, like, controversy about this particular. I mean, I'm pretty early. There's a lot of controversy about it.

Do you know what the controversy is? Is it just, because I haven't gotten to any of the, like, trial and testimony. I'm still pretty early on. And so far, it just seems like what the OJ one was, which is like, this is a dramatic reenactment. But I have not, I can't quite figure out what the... Was it that they display a weird, relationship between them.

The sexuality. Apparently a lot of the sexuality is intimated but never like not in the show. Apparently it's very explicit in the show. But that like that is not necessarily a part of the history. I know that from where my home is built, I should probably know more about this situation.

But I don't. So I, all I know is that people are very upset with the liberty that Ryan Murphy took. took with the story. Okay. All right. So this is, I'm just going to, and the incestuous relationship. Okay. So let me put out a call here because again, I am, I think I'm just on the beginning of episode two. So I really have not gotten into it. But if you are a listener and you have thoughts on this, I would, I know a couple people have written in to say you should watch it. I would love to

hear your guys's thoughts just so that I have, I can ground myself, you know, because I, there's also the, the, like, Menendez Brothers documentary that was HBO that is back up on Max now for, a little while ago. So I'm like familiar with this story a little bit, but like, um, I just haven't gotten. I just know everyone is like, fuck you, Ryan Murphy. And I'm like, what is happening? Very upset. Okay. Very upset. All right. So, so if you want to share in the Patreon comments or in the email, uh, you could email us or whatever, I would love to hear people's thoughts because I'm just beginning my journey. It is a fascinating story, obviously. And I like the way that Ryan Murphy puts together a crime drama. I feel like he's, you know, it's that stylistically is appealing. Yeah. But yeah,

I did know that people have a lot of feelings. So I will receive your feelings, and I will read them page 7podcast.com. And we appreciate you for letting us know. Now, something I guess, I'm trying to decide, do I go something I feel strongly about or something I don't feel strongly about. I guess I'm going to bring up the show Penguin on Max because I was told that it is more sopranos than Batman. Now, if you're familiar with the penguin, which, or if you have a partner who remembers every single thing that they've ever read in their life and can explain all of it to you, you will know that the penguin, the character is actually a mob boss for most of the Batman world and not actually portrayed the way he is, even though he does, he is more like distorted in the cartoon, but not quite as much as the Danny DeVito penguin that we're.

all know. So this is about him being the mob guy of the penguin in the world of Batman. And it picks right up after the R-Bats Batman movies finale. Oh, wow. So it picks right up from there. And what I will say is, man, I started this show with being like, I probably don't care. I will watch this.

I probably don't care. And, man, it's fucking great. Colin Farrell is killing. it. Also, I really am a huge fan. She's friends with Henry, Kristen Miliotti. Kristen Miliotti is doing such a good job in it. It immediately got my attention. I immediately sucked in. I understand why they're saying it's more sopranos than it is Batman, because it is kind of getting into the penguin, the character. But it is also like a mob story, but it happens to be in the Batman world. And also then you can have someone explain to you that, you know, Batman and the penguin, even though they are big foes, it's like the penguin kind of kept the, like, the, you know, the crime of his neighborhoods down. So they kind of almost worked in synchronosity together, even though like he didn't like what he did, but they kind of like figured it out in Gotham. Maybe I'm talking way too much out of hat about penguin. This is all just stuff I just learned.

Yeah, no, all good. That's interesting. I didn't realize it was, I hadn't really heard anyone talk about it. Yeah, I know. I just actually just saw it when I brought up Max to look up Uzumaki, I was like, Penguin. Yeah. But you had me at Colin Farrell. Sure. And he's so... Oh, dude in it. Totally.

And it's just like, it really is. You can just tell that they are putting in their best effort to make this work. And not just for people that are big batheads out there. But you know, I mean, I love a Batman. I am curious if they're going to bring Batman into the world because apparently it's something that annoys my significant other that when they have something in the Batman world that everyone acts as if there's no threat of the Batman. Right. Where really there should be kind of like you're always thinking you might get caught.

And then it could go down. I don't know. And would our Pats? It's not always. Yeah. And would our Pats be in there too, which should be crazy. Or at least just the threat of him because it didn't happen in the first episode, but it wasn't really good.

I did not expect to like it as much as I did. I wanted to throw my hat on one last show for me. And that is the Mr. McMahon. a documentary series about Vince McMahon. I am. Oh, yeah, you like that. Two episodes in, a little ways into the third episode. And it's one of those, you know, already it's a recommend because it's what makes,

the best documentaries are, come about when it's like halfway through making it or whatever, like some crazy shit happens. So like initially this was made with the consent of Vince McMahon and, you know, all these other wrestlers. and about his life and everything like that. And so there's all these like two camera interviews with, including Vince McMahon. And then like while they're making the documentary, all those crazy gations came out.

Like all that stuff. The sex scandal stuff. The all hit the fan. Well, that's why I'm wondering, I'm four episodes deep and I'm waiting for it to get into shit that was not previously spoken about. I feel like a lot of this stuff is. It's already kind of, you know,

known and everything. Yeah, it's already easy stuff. And I was like, I'm four hours deep. And I'm like, how much? Because there's a lot of episodes for Vince McMahon. Yeah. I didn't expect there to be that many episodes for Vince McMahon. And, but I, for me, it's just, the history of wrestling is so interesting inherently. Yes. So I think I'm kind of there for that as well anyways. But yeah, I will, I am interested to see how it continues to evolve and change as this year. And it is by the, Tiger King guy, very well done, very well made. Yeah. Wow. So, yeah, definitely, I'm definitely enjoying it. That's why I'm like waiting for the bombs show, because then I'm like, all right, well, we know this bombshell comes in. So I'm just, I feel like I find myself waiting for it because up top, they're like, all of these interviews were done before the Gatians came out. So, wow. Although, I mean, the Gatians had come out multiple times before then. Right. And they do cover, you know, in the steroid scandal and all that kind of stuff, they cover on all.

and all that stuff. It's very, you know, wrestling is fascinating. The history of it is very controversial and interesting and fucked up and yada, yada, yada. But that's all for me. I'm done. What do you guys, do you guys have any last throwouts before we close things up for the day?

I'll slap it out there. We went to go see the movie Saturday Night, which is based on the opening night of Saturday Night Live. Oh, really? And it is like the 90 minutes leading up to the first episode of Saturday Night Live. And this was another movie that, like, I saw the trailer for it. And I was like, oh, I bet that'll be, like, cute and, like, a good, fun movie.

And it was. Okay, cool. But that's, it was, like, everybody did a good job. It was entertaining, for sure. It's not like a, throw your ass in the car and get there. Like, the substance is such a, you know, like, it broke my brain in a fun way of going to go see a movie. And Saturday night was. A really, like I said, very entertaining and nobody does a bad job, but it would maybe as someone that is in love with most of those comedians that like I knew a lot about everyone. And like there's the book live from Saturday night, live at Saturday night. And like there's just so much that I feel like in the world of comedy you were like, I think a lot of us were so obsessed with them that I already knew about. So I think it was another one of those. But I feel like for anyone that doesn't know anything,

about any of who these characters, like who the like people actually were or what they acted like, check out Saturday Night. It's, it is not, it's not offending. It is like, it's just, it's fun. The, the, the first sentence of the New York Times review begins with Saturday night is a nice, safe movie. That sounds exactly right what you're saying. I'm not saying, like, it will definitely like a Sunday afternoon, it'll definitely pop a smile on your face. Sounds like a good depression watch. Yeah, pop it on. Just like a good, just harmless, thing. Yeah, and it's just kind of fun. And I'm watching Agatha all along and I love it. So there's that. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, I'll try to catch up on that.

And we can talk more about that next. Yeah. Down we go down the wish I's red. And yes, I will watch the rest of the Menendez thing. Yeah. We'll read up on the controversy and report back. I may catch up with you on that as well because that's my kind of shit too for sure. So there's just a lot. It's been a good week for stuff, you know. And for Sadman. All right. I think that's it.

Let's sing the song and get out of here. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll be back next week with more Talking TV. We're talking TV with MJ Holden and Jackie. Talking TV and you know it's going to get wacky. Everybody knows what everyone knows. And everybody knows we're talking shows. Talking TV with MJ Holden and Jackie.

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