Page 7 - Talkin' TV - I Like All Things Mormon

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

This week on Talkin' TV MJ is back and Jackie is demanding to see "Baby Girl", MJ finally saw "The Substance", and Holden is comin' for Jackie's insensitivity. Jackie gives a rundown of "The Last Showgirl" and it's painful beauty before Holden takes us down a dark path of his boyhood Pam Anderson spank sessions. Holden gets into the Brony video by Jenny Nicholson, which leads Jackie into the gone but not forgotten Garfield's Nightmare, and "The Curious Case Of..." keeps getting curiouser. Jackie gets into "The Traitors" and liked "Presence" despite the bad reviews, and is headed out into the frontier with "American Primeval" along with a lot of pissed off Mormons, all that and more on this weeks Talkin' TV!  The Substance - Amazon PrimeThe Last Showgirl - IN THE THEATAHHHHThe Last Bronycon - Jenny Nicholson Youtubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fVOF2PiHnc&ab_channel=JennyNicholsonDisney's Fastpass: A Complicated History - Defunctlandhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yjZpBq1XBE&ab_channel=DefunctlandThe Curious Case of.... - MaxThe Traitors Season 3 - PeacockDungeons and Drag Queens - DropoutPresence - IN THE THEATAHHHHHHHThe Geordie Shore - Paramount+ Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We're talking TV with MJ Holden and Jackie talking TV. And you know it's going to get a whack in there because everybody knows and everyone knows. And everybody knows for watching shows. We're talking TV with MJ Holden and Jackie. Oh, babies. Oh, Mama. Oh, Dad. I guess it just depends on what you like to scream.

And no, I mean, I have been really talking up and down about baby girl and I really been getting out there and trying to, you know, get the lead out so that everybody watches baby girl. It's hard to find right now. It's there. We are being censored as a society. Silenced, yes. And I want the movie to be. And maybe you just say, well, it's between the movie theater and the streaming process. Yes.

All right. Maybe we're not being silenced, all right? But I dare say that all of us that are trying to live Baby Girl 2025 are struggling not being able to see it whenever we want. It's not in the theaters anymore. It's already done. It was like barely in the theater. And it was barely in the theater out here. And that's saying something because, again, we get every movie. And usually the movies are shown at multiple theaters.

It was hard to find Baby Girl here. Jeez, I really, really wanted to go on a date and see it. Why? Why is it? I know that... I mean, at this point, it's been out for over a month, so that's probably why. Back in my day, movies would stay at the theater. Back in my day. That feels not that long to me, although there was just a big, big old dump of

Oscar movies onto streamers, and I know that in general, that's probably not good for any of the industries involved, but I was happy because I watched the substance. Ooh, what did you think? It was awesome, of course. I understand why everybody's been talking about it for months. I understand why everybody loves Margoi. And why do you also now feel that DeMe better win that Oscar? I think she deserves the Oscar.

I hope she does here. Who are the other bitches up for best actors? Okay. One, I mean, I don't want to take away because I do want to talk about the substance because I'm upset personally because I saw the last showgirl over the weekend. And I'm upset that Pam Anderson didn't get the nod for the Oscar because she, got the nod for the Golden Globe, and I'm upset on her behalf that she didn't get the nod for the last show girl. And, but please, substance. Now, you went into it knowing what.

I mean, only what you guys had talked about, but I really, luckily, the good thing about me seeing movies now is that I am so, you know, if I'm keeping up with things that's trying to keep up maybe a little bit with the news, maybe a little bit with life, as much pop culture as I can. but I really did not know much other than what you absorb passively. And I, I mean, it was just, it was amazing. Like I knew, and I knew that Margaret Quali was like the new It Girl, but I didn't know why, you know, so it's always a pleasure to be like, oh, this is why. Dude. What did you think about Margaret Quali? Because also in our, in page seven, I included an article talking about Andy McDowd, who is Margaret Qualley's mother.

Andy McDowell is now experiencing what she calls reverse nepotism because everyone is finding out that she is Margaret Qualley's mother. And so she's getting, everyone's like having like a quick like, you know, McDowell asance, which I am always here for. You know she's my bitch. I love that. But it's true. She's not like a super hot right now actress. And so it is very funny that she's like, nobody. Nobody knows who I am except that I'm Margaret Quali's mom, which is so, so funny.

But you know me, I'm a, I'm, I'm pro-good Nepo baby. I'm out here saying that you can, it doesn't matter who your parents are as long as you're not annoying and you're good at what you do. And I, so that's why I love a Maya Hawk and now I love a Margo Quali. Her Grue Kuali is so good. And also, she's openly talked about which I think is kind of fun about how, I mean, it's not fun for her, about what she had to go through. for the movie

and how much and how much it fucked up her skin and because Margaret Quali is also in kinds of kindness which I really

enjoyed as well but in it her like face was all jacked up with acne and stuff like that and all of it was real acne

not jacked up I mean it's still she's a beautiful person it's not like how insistive has Jackie been just in the last

two minutes am I being insensitive deeply am I penis vagina I know. I know you're just still dreaming about Amelia Perez. But Demi Moore, like, she deserved that Golden Globe. And I feel like she deserves the Oscar for what she went through that mood. And also just think about not only the prosthetics that would take so long every day, but also just nailing it like for, I know so many people. My mom told me she watched the substance. And I was like, oh my God, you watch the substance. And she was like, oh, my God, you watch the substance. And she was like, Jackie, it was so good.

I didn't care how disgusting it was. It was like, I know. It's one of those. It's that good. It's that good. Gideon hates body horror and I don't love body. It turns out I don't think I've seen that much body horror. And as soon as we started, Gideon is like, this is what body horror is.

You were like huge in the body horror. I would have thought that was like your chain. Oh, yeah, squelching. I think, MJ, I think squelching. Like I am waiting for the, I mean, I had a young, spankmeyer phase. You know, I feel like I've seen weird, weird. You say Spankmire? Yon Spankmire.

That's not exactly... I'm giving them... I thought it was like a sex move or something. Yeah, I've had a Spankmire or two in my day. You guys are such filmies. I wasn't sure if you would know. Jan Spankmeier is a Czech film director, but he made a lot of real weird movies

and a lot of weird meat, raw meat puppetry and stuff. But anyway, I digress. But I... I, I, I, it was, it was just, it was so good. It was cool. I feel like we're at a cool, despite, despite, despite where we are, uh, in general with, um, feminism, which I feel like as a society and bad. Um, it's not doing well.

Um, but it was cool to see just a movie that I just, I really enjoyed it. I feel like it never, it made such an amazing point without ever like, I don't, it's, it's not like it wasn't trying to make a point. It obviously was a pretty heavy handed point in some way. I just is a very, I just really, really enjoyed how they did it and how they, how they made the point, which again, it's not, I feel so weird saying it's not heavy handed. It's extremely heavy handed. It is, but it's very well done. It just works. Yeah. It's just like, this is just a, like, I feel like you could, it was just a great example of a movie that very much has, makes like a social commentary without feeling. feeling like it's just a art. The point of the movie is the art that makes

you think it's not like a political pamphlet disguised as art. It is an incredible movie that also really really it drives its point home with extreme effectiveness. And I don't know if the distinction I'm making if I'm articulating it well.

But I just feel like it's like a top tier feature film length Black Mirror episode, right? Like it just has that vibe to it for sure. And yet still, I'm like, I'd still, oh, I'd give it the, I'd try. Oh, yeah, I'd do the substance. I'd try it. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, not me yet, but you ask me 15 years from now, 20 years from now, I'll be like, yeah, man, take me back. I'll never go back. But that's my problem. I'd never go back in the body. That's, yeah. Exactly.

None of us. Why would you ever go back? You'd be, you'd be like the, the hammer gets it version of, Jackie, you know what you mean? Or I'm like that, because like that's a thing. It's not even like I want to go back to being young and hot because I have gotten hot in reverse. So I actually don't want to go back to that. I guess I would probably want to go back to my current reality. And so I think that we need to acknowledge that.

I think that we need to look at our perspective and remember that sometimes, you know, the things that are going on aren't that bad. And so I do feel, I mean, reality is bad. But inside of my brain is bad. Your life is better. Yeah. Inside my brain is a little bit better. I think that also, yeah, Gideon and I watched it at a time when both of us are kind of feel like, I am at a point of my life where I look at pictures of myself and I'm like, how did I get so old?

How did so much time pass? You stop that. You're beautiful. Thank you. But I like, it hit. Also old is beautiful too. I know, I know. And postpartum is beautiful.

I call myself postpartum five years after having my last kid. But like, you know. I mean, it's no bimbo's under the stage. I, I, I, it, the emotional. whole residence of the how it feels to be young and hot and how it feels to

not feel young and hot it, this moment of my life, it really hit. Bro. I don't know if you should watch the last showgirl then because man, I have now made

multiple jokes towards friends about how I want to do like a teaser that is in the style of last showgirl because Jeff and I were making jokes, not that it's really a jokey movie,

but he was like, I feel like last showgirl is like the wrestler, but it's just like the wrestler for women. And he's not wrong in that. And I do enjoy that. But I feel the way of like doing the last podcaster at some point with playing like, you ever see a one trick pony. He feels so happy and free.

Because essentially about Pam Anderson, knocking it out of the park because she was, she's been on this show called The Razzle Dazzle for 30. years or so, and she, and the show was ending, and she doesn't know who she is without it. And it's about the struggle of not existing anymore, uh, because you have aged out of people giving a fuck about you existing. And it is, it hurts. This is so, I'm so happy, I don't know why I needed this, but I'm so happy she had, like, a good acting turn.

Like such redemption after like just being known as the Baywatch Babe and the Playboy Playmate and the bad, you know, face of the bad Barb wire movie and all the hacky shit they put her in and through during that time. And I, hey, not only did I watch a lot of it, I've masturbated to a ton of it. Stop. But, you know, VIP and was a terrible show that I just enjoyed. for horny boy purposes. And so it's really cool to see this.

And she really is like it's a really fucking strong performance. I think she does a great job. Now, I was, I did see it with other people that in talking about it that like that they felt that the script wasn't as strong as it could have been. But I really was so enraptured by her performance as well. Like she only has a couple of really good moments. But what's really, I mean, she's great through the entire thing. But what's awesome is how subtly her voice changes.

As someone that usually pays a lot of attention to not only other people's voices, but my own voice, and the difference between performing or being what you feel like you're supposed to be and then also getting into the meat of how you really feel. And just the subtle differences of the way she speaks and how, like, She usually oftentimes does more of the, you know, high-pitched, like, breathy. But then she gets into these scenes. And it hurt in a way that I guess I just didn't think about the fact that it's not so much in your face like the substance. I do feel like it is still like a character study.

It's not like, oh, you get older than no one cares anymore. But it is a slice of life of that. feeling. And it's just a beautiful small movie. And I'm there, I know that obviously like big, it's, I think it's an A24 movie, but like, I'm sad that she didn't, that she's not going to go up for an Oscar for it. I'm sad about it. Yeah, I think that she, I think she deserved it. And especially with everything you're hearing about Amelia Perez, like, I can't like, in it, I was like, I would still want to me to win the Oscar. I just feel like she should have. have been up there. Yeah, it's cool to have, like, to me, you know, like how she talked about with her

Golden Globe speech of, like, people, being dismissed as like a popcorn movie actress. And then, yeah, seeing this moment for Pam Anderson, who's just been, like, amazing as she is aging. And obviously, Nicole Kimman was never not the hottest actress, but that the fact that she is sailing into older age while still being extremely hot and baby girl and, like, like, not ever losing her status as a sex. Oh, yeah. There's some exciting things happening, I think, for, you know, to be older women right now. I love it.

I mean, I'm looking forward to it. Honestly, Bam Anderson has encouraged me just on my own specific personal journey of life of, like, why do I feel the need to always have makeup on? Even if it's just a small amount of makeup just to go to the store. Like, why do I feel like I need that? And where is it coming from? And don't get me wrong. If you're down and always want to put the face on, fuck yeah, put that fucking face on if you love it. But I just started getting to a point where it's like, I see so many articles that are like, oh, great for Pam Anderson.

She's not wearing makeup and yet she's still absolutely stunning. Oh, so it's like too bad, so sad. But it's the idea of it. It's about shaking it up. And I like that because I like the Pam Anderson. It's like, I'm a grandmother. I live, I garden. I live a different life than this.

I'm a different person and I just love that she's bringing it to the forefront. I think it's great. And also, as we have talked about on the show before, people continue to feel so weird about makeup and women and makeup and men act like they're deceived when women look beautiful in makeup. Yes. But that when they see somebody like Pam Anderson without makeup, they're like, what the fuck is this? So I actually think, yeah, it's not like, you know, hashtag brave, but like it is kind of

hashtag brave for her to be like, I'm Pam Anderson and I'm walking to these award ceremonies walking out on these red carpets with no makeup. It is like really, you don't see that, you know, at all. Right. And also, because it's not like it's Pam Anderson everywhere she's got a microphone in front of her going like, do you see I don't have makeup on? It's the internet that's so obsessed with the fact that she doesn't put on makeup anymore. It's not her driving this home over and over again. It's the internet that can't believe that she doesn't wear me.

makeup that it's like, all right, guys. Yeah. She doesn't wear makeup. All right? Yeah. And she's killing it. Every conflict, there's at least one bitch. A huge bitch, a silly bitch. A little baby bitch, a raggedy bitch. But sometimes it's unclear who the bitch is. I'm Kara Klank. And I'm Jackie Zabrowski. And on our new Colin Advice podcast, we're going to help you figure out who's the bitch. We want to hear your problems, dilemmas, and quandaries. No topic is off limits. Co-worker flirt with the boss to get ahead. Is your bestie having her destination wedding on a holiday weekend?

Is your therapist being clingy? Does your friend keep bringing her toddler to adult parties? Come on, there's definitely a bitch in your life, and we want to hear about it. You can email us, DM us, leave us a voicemail, and even call in live to talk to us in person about the alleged bitch in your life. Just go to who's the bitch.com for all the ways you can contact us. New episodes drop every Wednesday starting in October on The Last Podcast Network, so subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And tune in to our live stream kickoff on September 30th on the Last Podcast Network Twitch channel, where we'll be taking your calls live on air. Help us, help you figure out who's the bitch.

Now, I had a couple of things that I kind of wanted to come back around for discussion that's already been mentioned, but now I've seen. First of all, Jackie quite thoroughly enjoyed the Jenny Nicholson Brony YouTube essay. Very, very fun. I love Jenny Nicholson, dude. My thing is I always have to, like, kind of do one and then take a break. If I do too much, I start to, like, get too used to her thing. And then I, like, can't, I just, I can't, like, keep going. But it's great.

I'm so glad there's this, like, treasure trove that I can keep going back to. Yes. Because the Brony thing's so fast. Fascinating. I mean, a little bit of a spoiler alert on it is just that she was implicated because she was, she was a My Little Pony fan from well before friendship is magic. Friendship is magic is when the whole Brony phenomenon blew up. But there's all these iterations of My Little Pony, of course, as you probably know from. But it's interesting. You've never seen the perspective of BronyCon from someone that used to work. Yeah. So she was like, yeah, I know all this because kind of embarrassingly, like, I'm me and my friend. friend made all these, like, fan videos where they would, like, do new vocals over, like, existing My Little Pony content, put it up on YouTube, and they wrote, like, songs and stuff, and there would be, like, a dark, edgy twist on it, you know, whatever, that, obviously, so that's, like,

very YouTube foddery kind of fandom type of stuff, and they became, her and her friend became a little popular in the scene. They were, they were, like, there were, like, meta, like, celebrities within the brony culture. They were treated like gold by this one specific community of people, um, like musicians and stuff that, that people became fans of that made my little pony friendship as magic content. I mean, first of all, it takes you through the whole creation of, of the bronies and how it spawned from like this new phenomenon that I feel like recently started because of the internet where people would ironically watch stuff and then just actually become fans of it, which I think is like it almost, you need like a word for that at this point

because it's so rampant because people do it's, yeah. That phenomenon didn't really exist until what, maybe 10 to 15 years ago. Yeah. And we need like a Schaudevord. Yeah, exactly. Like a German word, right? Like we needed something for it because it's so this and it's like so four chan weirdos like actually becoming fans of this thing.

And then also I didn't even realize like it's called the last. BronyCon because I guess they held the last one. I don't know what year the movie was, or the essay was made, but it was on the heels of the final BronyCon because they stopped doing it. So, bronies are kind of over, and it was such a strange era. At least the convention is over. I don't think, I think Bronies never say die. Kind of, but, but, well, they're not the goonies, but also, but no, no.

I mean, I think they're goonin and. I think it's just a different kind of goon. French of his magic still on God. I think it kind of lived and died with friendship as magic in that era of the internet. Like, I do think that... I mean, we just watched Friendship as Magic last week at my house. So it's still on that. And there's Make Your Mark.

There's a new... There's a many, like, there's a show... Make Your Mark is a series. I'm sure there's still a lot of male, adult male, my little pony fans, because why not? But I do think the, like, the boom of it. I mean, it was like a regular topic of discussion. It was a thing for years. It's also very funny, the, like, thin diagram of, like, furries to bronies to, you know,

And then the darker aspects are some really gross, infantic sexual, like, kind of gets very, like, icky with just even depictions of, like, the young ponies in the show and cons. Yeah, it's great. It's weird, you know, the horniness aspect. Yeah, like, that's the whole weirdness of it. It's like, because it's not just like, hey,

we're these adults who are not afraid to share that we're fans of this show concerning my little pony. No, no, no. but there's also a weird layer of horniness inherent in this whole thing that's just very bizarre. And then... But not everybody. It's not for everybody. The furry aspect.

And that is also a weird... Its own Venn diagram of like, what aspect of being a furry is like, I love to dress up in this suit versus I want to fuck in this suit? You know what I mean? And where it's like the fetish begins, the hobby ends and the fetish begins, right? So all that is really fascinating. to exist in because I don't know if you were on the same page. I was fascinated by how this really weirdly specific fandom grew. Well, I had watched the other docu-seer or the documentary that was put out.

I watched that down too. I watched that too. Because I've always been fascinated. I get fascinated by niche fandoms like this. I think it's so interesting how people, and this is coming from someone that, whose husband works at a lot of horror conventions. So I go to a lot of conventions to see. The specific, you know, it's like doing like RuPaul's Drag Con and stuff like that and like seeing the different kind of.

Or like that Beetle Jews song on repeat. See, this is where you go to learn about different, oh, sections of fandom that you just are like, wow, I didn't realize it went that deep. And then I love to sit and learn more about them, which is why I've been so. I need to start making my YouTube link of my YouTube videos that we've been watching because that's why I lose myself in defunct land. I love defunct land because it gets into all the different like histories of like rides and different like amusement parks and things like that. And I actually this week watched one on Disney's Fast Pass, the complicated history of Disney's Fast Pass, which I was around for the beginning iterations of when we would go to Disney all the time. But then learning about why it changed and how it changed and what it went to and why was. so fascinating because I've always been angry about the constantly changing fast pass-esque systems of these amusement parks because you have to know how each one rolls so that you can like get in and be able to do as many things as you want unless you're a multimillionaire

and you can just spend all the money you want for all the whatever passes and it sucks because originally that's not what Disney was trying to do it wasn't supposed to be a you know financial gatekeeping kind of environment. That's why FastPass was for everyone when it first started because that wasn't the ideology behind Disney and now look at it. Now look at how disgusting all of it has become. But defunct land is really, Jenny Nicholson, defunct land, you know. That's also Jenny Nicholson.

No, defunct land is just a full separate YouTube all about a separate rides and stuff. I think I talked about it a while ago because there was one on this Garfield Dark Ride at Kenny Wood that I was really obsessed with. And so that's what got me into defunct land. Okay, got you. The other thing to talk about is definitely the curious case of series. So they did just drop episode. I was hoping to catch episode three last night,

but I guess they dropped them on Monday actually proper because it wasn't on. The third is the orphan imposter, which sounds very similar actually to the Natalia Grace thing. How was the second episode? Did it suck you in as much as the first? No. Yeah. It was like fine.

It was, you know, it was a true, I feel like the second episode reverts back to just like, this is a true crime thing. I read. Yeah, it is a true crime. I'm excited for the cat. Yes. Something sad happened. Yeah, the cat cold, I am excited about. But the second one didn't seem as interesting as the first one.

No. It's like a little bit on self-stories, but not as well done. I love that the whole curious case franchise now, by the way, I know you talked about, or you mentioned Bam last week, but that it's just the whole premise seems to be, let's get this lawyer bitch from the Natalia Grace series that everybody loves who just narrates Natalia. Who is this lady?

I'm like, I don't trust you as far as I can throw you at your viewpoint. Also, in the Natalia Grace series, she's presented as a talking head, but then she is essentially by season three of Natalia Grace, she has shifted from one of many talking heads offering their opinion to being like

the narrator. And so then now with the new series, curious case of fill in the blank. She's just, she's the host, basically. But she's not being presented as a host. She's being presented as an ex-a-talking head expert. Or I would say she's not necessarily, she's not a host, right? She's not like traditionally being a host, but she's just kind of the like foundational

support. Yeah, it's just weird because she's the only person in every episode that's like commenting on. She's being presented as an expert. Like, this is a lawyer who knows things, but she's the only person. And I'm just like, who is? You're talking about crazy eyes, right? The blonde woman.

The Nancy Grace wanted to be. The lady with the frog voice. Yes. Yes. Nancy Grace imitator. Yeah. I will say I have received a couple of emails. One of the big Bamargarra emails.

I've seen a couple of emails that are talking that, that are saying that she was done dirty and that all of this stuff that came out against her is is painting her in a bad light. Wait, and she's not as crazy. Yes. as she is coming off on mocks. Oh, I didn't know she was... But I don't... Oh, oh, no, you're talking about the... Oh, crazy.

You're talking about the aura. You're talking about BJ. Yeah, yeah, the... That lady. We've gotten emails. We're talking about the lawyer who is the old older woman who's like...

Oh, that lawyer. Let me tell you how... Aha, the voice. The voice. The voice. She is in every episode it looks like commenting on, you know, kind of being the person giving like the exposition essentially or stating each side of the thing. Oh, is it interesting, makes you think, huh? Kind of those kinds of things.

No, no, no. Yes. And then you're talking about the woman who became a lawyer and, like, was helping with the free Britney movement and then got really involved in the Bamargera stuff. And I don't know how to feel about her because, yes, I saw the Bam Margera episode specific. about BAM. So we got an email. So the whole thing with BAM is what's, I think the most interesting thing about the BAM thing is like he's, you think it's going to be all about him and all the controversy with him. But he's weirdly like kind of in the background. It's like, right. Yeah, it's really an exploration of what is a conservatorship? What can you do when someone with a lot

of money is having a mental health crisis or a substance use of crisis? And then when the internet decides to like get involved in messy celebrity, And then what happens when fandums and stuff get involved? Baker Act stuff. I mean, I know that's more Florida, but still, like, that kind of thing, right? When someone kind of gets out of control and families get involved and what, and the kind of the debate of like what's okay and not okay in terms of all that stuff. And people did write in, someone wrote in was like, they did her dirty,

which I agree that like there's no way you can't think the way they just edit, like, close-ups of her face and stuff like that. they really try to make her look as dumb fuck. She's a lawyer because I want to hear about this email because I haven't read it. So basically it starts with Bam. And then it goes to this woman named Lima, right, who is selling a product, an AI product. But using the language of substance use counselor while not having any of the credentials of being a substance use counselor. The most L.A. Tech, bro, dumb fuck.

Exactly. Like, what if we harness the data-driven power of AI? Of VR. Of not AI. VR. VR. And we collect your bio data.

As soon as you were any of these words, giant red flag. Again, she's coming off as if she's a counselor. She's not a social worker. She's not a mental health. She has no license. And just,

she's selling something. It really feels like modern day snake oil. Absolutely. An actual snake oil or an actual like drink. it's AI, I'm sorry, VR and putting this helmet on and being transported into a reenactment of your, but it's just like, and then you look at like any of the, the VR experience and it's like so not, to me, very immersive at all. So the doc kind of takes, at first you're like, oh, is this legit? And then it becomes clear that it's like not legit.

But then it does, the doc does another leap. And it's like, oh, you thought maybe you could trust this bitch. here's this other bitch who's a lawyer from who like from the free brittany movement and she's talking about like the predatory nature of conservatorships, the predatory nature of guardianships, but it seems like maybe she doesn't know what she's talking about. And then she ends up also looking really bad because her YouTube followers essentially she's like kind of a la free Britney. She's like a bam is being exploited. Conservatorships are inherently exploitative. But then she sent, like she kind of, whether or not she sicks her followers or her followers sick themselves onto BAM's family.

And also this woman, Lima's family, the AI woman, VR woman, sorry, too many whatever is too many letters. You said AI so many times that I can now not say VR. I know. I'm sorry. B.R. A.I. B.R. A. A. A. A. O no. Those are the friends. The snake oil salesman, but the lawyer, YouTube lawyer, kind of her followers then attack the family of the VR fake substance use counselor family. And it's just like Natalia Grace where everybody looks bad. Everybody involved in this documentary is a crazy person or at least looks like a crazy person. And I'm saying including that Nancy Grace lawyer and her lady because what's her deal?

But tell me why the email said that BJ was done dirty. BJ, the YouTube lawyer. It's people that have been following BJ for years and that are, I've been listening to everything that she's said for years. Okay. It sounds like they're in the, I don't know though. Okay. They're either totally right or they're drinking the Kool-Aid and I don't, it's hard.

It's impossible to parse now. I don't know which is which. I convince me that there's a bunch of people that like drank the Kool-Aid with her and are just like, will, are just followers. of her, even though, because it made some points. Any of this stuff is true about how she was, like, leading groups to, like, kind of go after people in ways that felt not good on the internet. There is a point of the documentary where she's like, conservatorship or guardianorship,

my law degree tells me they're the same thing. And then it cuts to the other lawyer and she's like, they're not the same thing. They're not the same thing. And they're not the same thing. She definitely comes off dumb, but also they're clearly trying to make her help as dumb as dumb possible. They do her dirty. So it's just so gray area. So person who wrote in, I'm not saying I don't believe you. But unfortunately, it's like being in an insane asylum and being sane and trying to convince people that you're not sane or that you are sane to get out. It's like impossible. It's like really

hard for you to go, I've been following this one for years. I'm one of her followers. And I think, you know, because that's what the documentary did the whole job of convincing me is that people who've been following her for years might be a little, you know, not completely in the, I don't know, It's just when you're, when you are consumed by one perspective. And so you're hearing a lot of information about one perspective. It's hard to not follow that person. Yeah. Oh, well, that makes a lot of sense.

And they're obviously speaking truth. So I want to follow them. And go out of your way to stand up for them, even towards us, you know, that you have a relationship with in your ears, that you still need to support her. And that's why, like, I don't know, do we, do we trust that person? And I'm down. It's just so, the evidence is so, but like, the evidence is the editing. And that's why you have to remember. Yes, I was going to say, this is, you should teach this, they should use this particular

episode of the docu-series in, like, documentary filmmaking classes or film analysis classes or critical thinking classes to be like, anything you make is a presenting. of facts. And you can be hung by your own news. Exactly. And like any, like you can, you, because, because within this one hour, one episode of a docu series, you go from, oh, this person seems trustworthy. Wait, they're not trustworthy. This person seems trustworthy. Wait, they're not trustworthy. And it's like, and, and so you're, you're being given this very small sliver of whatever this person BJ does on YouTube. You're being given this, this sales pitch of what this Lima person does with her substance use. VR technology. And so it and then it all kind of once you, and I think the goal as a viewer is to be able to see through the sales pitch, right? And also see through the, you know, the limited presentation that you get in the documentary. But it is, it is a fascinating watch because it brings up all these interesting questions of just like, you know, watching Stivo talk about BAM is really heartbreaking. Because Steveo was like, we had reverse paths. I used to be a, you know, a, you know, a, uh, an addict and out of control. And then I got sober and my whole life turned around. And he was like, it has just been the opposite for BAM. And, you know, he says like he's either going to get better and have a redemption arc or

he's going to end up dead. And it's, it's, that really, really hit home. Yeah. And it's all this aside with this lady and everything. Like the BAM story's been so sad. I'm actually glad it wasn't. And I want to thank you to anyone that wrote in because we received multiple people. writing in talking about other places where it's like if you're interested in more about

Bam and what's going on with Bam, I just want to say thank you very much because that's also a lot of the hate that the episode is getting is because like everyone thought it was going to be more about his story. It uses him as a vehicle. Yeah. You don't get his story at all. It's a mess. I mean, I've been following him kind of like for a while I was following his Instagram when it was

really messy and then I was like, I got to stop. I feel like this is like uncomfortable. And then, you know, I watched a, I like Steveo's podcast and they, had an episode with Bam on there being on a kind of a recovery in a recovery place, you know, but then it went back off of that, like not long after the episode. And you could kind of tell, by the way, he was talking because he was still doing, here's a big, if people want to know a really big tell if someone's not really in recovery, when they blame everybody else for everything and don't take any accountability, that's a really good exam. I'm just saying,

I'm not, you know, referencing anything, but that's a really. good indicator that they're not actually on any kind of recovery journey. And Bam was doing that a lot in the episode with Stivo. He was like complaining about other people fucking him over, you know? And I feel like when you're doing that a lot, it's a really obvious indicator of like, you're not, you're going to relapse. Like, you're probably going to relapse, dude. You know, it just is what it is. It's just part of it. But it takes a long time. And more often than I, takes many, many attempts. And I love jackass and I love the whole thing and I love everything that led up to it.

And I really enjoyed a show back in the day. I hope he gets the help. I hope he gets better. And I think everybody, I think so many people have a friend like this where you're like, I don't know how to. To me it was just, it was real, it really had home to hear Steveo being like, because at first, of course, I'm like, I can't believe Steve I was talking about it this openly. but then also when you're watching your friend Corrine downward like this and you don't know what to do, you're like, well, I guess I'll do, I'll do any, like I have to talk about what's happening here. I have to be honest about what's happening. And I think it's really, I think, like I said, I think most people know what it's like to love somebody who is that out of control and not have any idea what to do. And so I imagine you would try a guardianship. You would try certain things of like, I'm not getting through to him. I need outside help. And so. Right.

I understand a family seeking other resources. And I don't know if it's necessarily a VR experience for them. But you know, you get to a point where you're like, maybe it is. I don't fucking know. Maybe VR will help him. I don't know. Let's fucking try it. That's right.

Also, whatever, whatever works. If it works for you. That's the journey I went on. I was like, oh, does this work? And then it becomes clear that it probably does not work. But yeah, it is. It is a watch. It is a fascinating watch. And I want to reiterate, because I feel like I'm still making it sound like this person wrote in and I like don't believe them because they've brainwashed by this lawyer lady.

I genuinely just at this point in my life, unless I literally watch someone, Sig Heil right in front of me, it's hard to know what to believe on the internet anymore. Without taking the time to look into it. Right. Yeah. And so, and so for even for your sake, unfortunately, it's like, thank you for that email. definitely makes me question the fuck out of the show in general. The show is not shown itself to have a lot of, the curious case, franchise doesn't have a whole lot of integrity. It's not a well-made franchise.

I think they're out to like really put too positive in the world. I think they're out to just get us to talk about stuff into a microphone. Exactly. Which is why it's interesting how good the band Margera ends up, episode ends up being, or how interesting. I don't know if we can say that it's good because, again, I don't actually know the veracity of what is presented because I can't do a whole independent research project. on it, but the journey that it takes you on, the structure of it is very interesting. Not what I was

expecting. Not what I was expecting. And I absolutely agree that they definitely like did that lady dirty, whether she sucks or not. Like if she sucks, I'll be less upset that she did her dirty, I guess. But if she doesn't, you know, which I totally could believe, they, just the way they do those close-ups of her face and stuff is so, I would just be beside myself. If I, like, made that you could tell she made this doc being like, I'm the one who's telling it like it is, who's like setting the record straight in this thing. And then to go back and watch it and see how you were framed, it's like, that's documentary filmmaking right there. There's always a point of view. I was going to say, it's a good lesson that you will, that like, if you are talking to a camera

because you think it's going to be good for your image, you have to be really careful about who you're talking to. Because how you're presented is not in your control. And also, no matter how many you ask, you're not going to make me look bad in this, right? You know, sometimes they're going to make you look bad if you've done some things that maybe some people will see as being bad. Now, talk about bad people. I was born to be bad and sometimes I was born to Moida because I've been watching the Traders season three. I finally, I listen to your cries. People have been crying from the dark. for us to start watching the traders. And I have watched The Mole and I was like, oh, I just feel like it's just Alan Cumming as the Mole. I feel like it's Allen Coming with the Mole. But here's the thing. Why is that bad?

And also, Alan Cumming is unbelievable in it. And the season three is currently coming out. I believe there are six episodes out right now. I was absolutely sucked into it. It is essentially like House of Villains and the Mole had a baby. be and they created the show called The Traders. So it's people from all different reality shows that are shoved together. But what I like about it that's not like the mole is that you know the entire time who the traders are.

And I like it better than not knowing. I like watching them do their fun work. Yeah, it's more fun. Yeah, yeah. That's more fun. And this actually inspired me every time I've seen like, Bob the Drag Queen did a great, like a role in Drag the Musical that we went to go see. And I feel like every time I see Bob the Drag Queen do anything, I'm like, I really like the way he performs.

And he's on The Traders Season 3. And I found out that he's on Dungeons and Drag Queens, which is over on Dropout. So they do Dimension 20. They do like large campaigns of Dungeons and Dragons. but they had Alaska Thunderbock, Jujubi, Baba Drag Queen, and Monet together for the first time playing Dungeons and Dragons, they're playing on the show, and it is wonderful.

As someone that is also fairly new to the world of Dungeons and Dragons, it's so cool to watch other people, and also they're so fun to watch anyway, but to watch them be thrown into the world to create their own world, I was, I, Jeff was like, all right, first episode, it's two hours long. It's like two hours. And then I blinked and it was over. And I was like, uh-oh, am I going to start watching more Dungeons and Dragons campaigns on Dropout?

Yes. And I'm starting with Dungeons and Drag Queens. And I started watching the Candy Lane one and I did like it a lot. But this Dungeons of Drag Queens immediately, I just am like, I want more Bob the Drag Queen. I need more of him. So really, really enjoying it. And you guys will love the titles for Mida. Alan Gubby has amazing fits in it.

I really am, I'm not, I'm like down. And I love him too. Oh, my God. And he just showed, he's perfect in it. And it is a talk about great editing. It is, every episode is an hour. It does not feel like it. It is not one of those shows where they keep playing the same clip over and over again.

It's just great drama, great God. I think that I need to put Alan coming and Martin Short from Only Murders in the building on my like aging vision board. Yes. Because like I don't know. I'm somewhere. I'm still figuring out my gender. I'm still figuring out how to age. And I'm still trying to fit like any like masculine fashion goals that I have are usually like people who were 25, 15 years ago.

You know, like I can't look like a young Connor Oberst anymore. right? So like I have... You could pull it off if you wanted to. But I think I have to be like, no, no, no, you're past that era. You're not a Connor Oberst. And Connor Oberst isn't the vision anymore. You are an Oliver Putnam. You know, you're a, you're a Allen coming. So I think I really need to put some older fabulous men on my fashion vision board goals. Hell yeah, you do. I love this. And especially after you start watching the traders, you are going to be like, yes, I want to wear that. I want to wear that. In fact, even the makeup you used to do on tour is very, it's giving Alan coming in The Trader. It's very, the Traders. It's like, he's just killing it. I'm really enjoying the show. And yeah, five or six episodes are out right now. I think Jeff and I watched them in one or two sittings.

We just kind of slurped it up and immediately was like, I want more. I want more. Hell yes. And, man, we went to go see a divisive movie over the weekend that I'm reading a lot of bad reviews of. and it kind of makes me sad, and that is the movie presence, which is a, and to be fair,

it is being branded a horror movie, and it is not. It is pretty much a drama. And it's kind of a sad drama, and I think that's why a lot of people are upset about it, but it is a horror movie that is from the perspective of the ghost. Ooh, that's, I like it. Speaking of,

Woo! Yeah, was this good. I really enjoyed it. It's an hour and 20 minutes. I thought that the end, it's by Stephen Soderberg. I enjoyed like the use of the camera as like essentially a, as a character. Honestly, I was watching a video essay last night about how the character work in the Shining was the first time a steady cam was ever used on a film because that was, um, Stanley Kubrick was trying to have the. camera be essentially the house. He wanted the camera to also be a character in the movie, which

made so much sense. And I kind of feel that way, not that you can compare, I mean, the shining to the presence, to presence. But I feel that that perspective provided an interesting aspect of a quote unquote horror movie that I really like. But you know, I feel that way about most horror movies. they're trying something fun or new, I'm usually on board. But again, it's not really a horror movie. Uh-huh. It's just a... But it was very funny because Eddie...

It's a movie with a ghost, but that doesn't make it a horror. Correct. And Eddie afterwards was just like, it's like, man, I feel like young people really got to see this movie. And I thought that was very funny because it's a very old man thing to say. And yes, there are young people in it. And I feel like he thinks that young people need to learn a lesson from this movie. But I guess the lesson you learn. from the movie is like, you know, always be skeptical and never trust.

There you go. I think that's what he wants young people to learn. Unfortunately. I think they, I be. I was like, look at the world that's already happening, Eddie. But you know, I appreciate his perspective. And I'll save everything else for next week. We had a great episode, guys.

I mean, I will say that I'm going to get further deeper into American Primeval this week. and man, the LDS Church is real angry at that show. American Primeval. I can see why. I like all. MJ, I don't know if you'd like it. It's very visceral, but it is a, like, a Western show. I like all things Mormon.

I just want to throw it out there because I think right now, like, it's funny. So I do the Monday watch long every Monday on Twitch, and we watch reality show, trash reality from, you know, a decade or more ago, right? Usually even more than that, like 15 years ago. go, whatever, plus. And I think more so than ever people like want this live stream going on because it's just a way to like completely disassociate. And boy did we find such a strong one. It's all on the Roku channel and Amazon Prime, all of it. And it is the British Jersey Shore knockoff, the Jordi Shore. And it is so funny immediately. And like there's such a one to one for like everybody

from the Jersey Shore. There's like a situation and it's a lot of fun playing that game of the Who's Who. They drink, they scream, they are messy, they all fuck each other immediately. And I love all the Slat, British slang, you know, all the women are referred to as birds, shagging a bunch of birds, stuff like that. They all have like their own version of like the kind of lingo that you got from Jersey Shore. So it's easy to find. There's 21 seasons of it, which is insane. I will say there's shorter seasons because it's British,

so it's like nine episodes and then a clip show for each season. It's a little more manageable to get through. But man, is it a lot of fun to see the trashy version of British people? The way they talk is so hilarious. Like the, yeah, it's just, it's great. I guess Jordy is a, you know, if you're a Jordy, you're a real piece of shit. Yeah, you love being. Whoa.

The same thing with the tanner and everything, by the way. All the tanning and the gym. Yeah, let us know. Hell yeah. It's so funny. So, yeah, I just, if you need to just totally escape everything current, I think that's a really fun way to go. Enjoy me on Mondays. Hell yeah.

MJ, anything else you want to throw into the pile? I've been enjoying the Australian show. You can't ask that that you recommended. Dude, so good. There's like certain episodes I want to watch with the kids. It's like, but more I think if you have like maybe like 10 to 12 year olds would be fun to watch with them. really, really good show. Like, Jackie, knocked it out of the park

with something to just watch and feel good. Yes, I'm so glad that you are enjoying that show. And I just, man, so many seasons of it and bite-sized episodes. You just kind of slurp them up. It's great. While you're making dinner. Although sometimes you have to look at what the title is

because sometimes you're like, oh, I'm just watching the show, I'm learning so much. This is so interesting. And then one will just come out of nowhere and you're just, like, crying and very upset. So make sure you know what, each, I mean, every title is what the episode's about.

So prepare yourself and your brain every once in a while. Yeah, no, it's not all fun, but it is very, very well done. It certainly is. And thank you guys so much for hanging out with us. And let us know if there's anything else you want us to try out and check out, page 7 podcast at gmail.com. We love hearing from you. And we will be back next week.

Let's sing the song. We're talking TV with Nj, J. Holden and Jackie talk to TV And you know it's going to get wacky Because everybody knows and everyone knows And everybody knows we're watching the shows We're talking TV with MJ Holden and Jackie This show is made possible by listeners like you

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