Page 7 - Talkin' TV - Mormons Are Endlessly Fascinating

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

This week Holden, Jackie and MJ are finally healed of their Chimp Crazyness as Tonia Haddix and Tonka's insane journey ends, Hulu's "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives" shows a saucy side of Mormonism you won't hear about from Ole' Moroni and covers the cleanup after a massive tea spill upsets their community. Holden recaps Pop Star Academy: KATSEYE on Netflix which chronicles Geffen and HYBE creating a global girl group, Jackie reports back from the theatah that Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice delights, and to keep and eye out for Strange Darling! Max dropped a two episode doc on the making of The Sopranos titled "Wise Guy: David Chase and the Sopranos" and MORE! Chimp Crazy - MaxSecret Lives of Mormon Wives - HuluPop Star Academy: KATSEYE - NetflixBeetlejuice Beetlejuice - TheatahStrange Darling - TheatahWise Guy: David Chase and the Sopranos - Max Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

with M.J.J. Holden and Jackie talking TV. And you know it's going to get a wacky. Because everybody knows, everybody knows. Everybody knows. And everybody knows we're watching shows. We're talking TV with M.J. Holden and Jackie. Oh, baby. I know.

I know. The mother love. We've got a couple of weeks to really catch y'all up on. But we're going to keep it to the big things. Don't worry. We won't over. nun date you, but maybe we will. I don't know. It depends on how you feel.

This chimp is crazy. Madgeist, dude. Yeah, you were so right, Jackie. Thank you. You know, and I find most of what you say is wrong. Yep, I understand. I understand. This was one time. The one in all right time. Very right. Really, though. This is chimp crazy. Now that it's done, too, I can fully and competently say, I mean, one of the most banger, uh, doc series I've ever seen.

And a big shout out to it for being four really tight, fucking nonstop, engaging, just wonderful episodes. It even does the thing, like you know, we're talking about it, does the thing that we love so much when we watch shows. I think I was talking about it was you actually, you Jack, where, you know, like the film crew becomes a part of the documentary series. Like, you know, like we saw. with the jinx and stuff like that.

And like it just never stopped developing as an interesting story until the very end. Incredible work. Eric Good. He knows how to make a documentary about exotic animals, man. This guy knows what he's doing. And he is the Tiger King guy. He's the guy who did Tiger King full on. There's something about, and I mean, part of it is this lady.

They even explain how she just for no reason overshares. way too much with people. But man, he is able to get into with these crazy people and get them to open up in a way that is just absolutely thrilling to watch. Yes. Because this is the, yes, there's so many amazing things about this documentary. But right, one of them is Dwayne, the guy who he got to basically be his intermediary. Oh, my God.

Proxy director who is on the first. filmmaking team, but also happens to come from the world of exotic animals. So all the exotic animal people trust him so much because he, he comes, he loves exotic animals and he grew up with them and he's in from that circusy world. And so all these people trust him. And so it's, you know, you spent the whole documentary being like, do they know they're talking to a camera? It's another documentary, very fun to watch with a lawyer, because you're just like, you guys, you're perjuring yourself, you're perjuring yourself on camera, you're talking about how you're perjuring yourself on camera. But like, and the amount of times, too, that they'd even said that like,

they told her, don't say anything you don't want the public to know. Don't say. And he, yes, I think the proxy director, the guy who is, who is the one, uh, who, who is the intermediary between the two world, the world of the documentary, the documentary crew and the world of the exotic animal chimp havers. I think he actually feels, I mean, we're going to get into a giant, spoil alert for chimp crazy, before we get into the details. I think he feels really, I think, torn because he's like, I feel like I kind of betrayed this person's trust, but I told her, this is a camera, we're making a documentary, I told

I think he's almost trying to tell that to himself. He's like, I told her, don't say anything to the camera that you don't want the world to know. her, I told her. And then in the very last episode, they're speaking to an investigative journalist who also interviewed this woman. And she's like, the investigative journalist is like, that woman loves to talk. And she just can't stop herself. She just. Everything. And if you are that person, don't commit crimes. I am also a person like that. Yes, me. That's why I don't commit crimes because I would tell everybody if I committed

a crime. I would accidentally do it. And this woman, you're right, just kept burgeoning herself. And it was so, but then you just watch her, like the scene where she has the, she's like having this really intense conversation. And then finally the director's like, I'm sorry, Tanya, what is on your lips? And she's like, I'm getting a filler. I got to get a feel. And she had the like stuff on her lips, I think to make them not like hurt as bad when she gets the filler put in. But like, how do you take that woman seriously? But that was, but I think that the reason why the documentary is so good.

is I'm giving a lot of credit to the proxy director. I'm trying to find his last name because I just kept, I was watching, I just kept screaming, Dwayne to Cunningham. Dwayne Cunningham. He's a former circus clown convicted of illegally smuggling exotic lizards into the United States. That's who the proxy director is. And so I just kept screaming, Dwayne, Dwayne, but like I think that they, I think that the reason the documentary is so good, even more so than

Tiger King is that even though they're both, both main characters of Tiger King and Tim Crazy are like, you know, pretty out there people. But the documentary treats them, it's not, it's not like, look at this guy. I mean, it is because you can't help it. But it treats them as subjects worthy of respect. Like, you know what I mean? Yes. And you know what I like about what I feel like they do with these? Is it reminds me of like a therapy session where I don't know if you're a therapist does this, but like the kind of thing where like they won't say anything. And then you fill in the space and you just kind of keep going to see what you would keep saying. And I feel like they just, same with Tiger King.

I feel like they just gave them a platform. And we're like, well, be you. Yes. And they were. And they were. And don't get me wrong. I don't have, I don't think I would say I have sympathy for these people. I think that what they're doing is unequivocally wrong.

I think having wild animals in this way is a horrible crime against nature. Yes. You shouldn't have them in your homes. What I like is that that really comes across in this docu series. And they are still treated like human beings. It's not, I guess, you know what I mean? There's not like a look at, I mean, part of Tiger King is like, look at this crazy guy. Obviously part of this is look at this crazy guy.

But there is just, there is just like a level. And it even comes through in the scenes when she's, at the end, when she's talking to the director, I think he's just talking to her with a level of respect that you, that you almost resist wanting to give this person because she's such a character, you know, but she is a human being and she does, in her way, believe that she loves these chimps.

And she, I think, I think she's a true believer, right? I think she truly believes that she was protecting that chimps. Yes. But at the same time it comes from, in my opinion, a deeply selfish place. A hundred percent. Oh, of course.

A pathological. My relationship with this chimp is more important than this chimp being able to be outside of a tiny cage. I mean, that little cage, every time I start feeling it all bad for or start second guessing, like, well, maybe it was like the relate. No, he does not want to look at monkeys on a phone screen in a tiny cage all day. and just sit with this woman. There's no, even if they have this beautiful relationship.

You know, and Lexi even was like at the end, she was like, oh, spoiler, spoilers, spoilers, spoilers, spoilers. You know, when Alan Cumming gets to like see Tonka like in the wild and is like crying. And Lexer was like, oh, I kind of wish they had that moment where they got to like re-encounter each other. It was like, no, that's the beauty of what's happening right now is that Alan Cummings not coming into that space and directly contacting Tonka. but like seeing Tonka be free-ish in this, you know, preserve as opposed to like being like, hey, give me a high five. Remember me?

Yeah. Underground without sunlight. Without anywhere to move. No, it's not, that's not how these creatures want to be. They need to be free. And it's just this weird, like, and it really also is to me, I was thinking about this a lot. I think having a toddler, you know, the way they are with these chimps reminds me.

of like how my relationship with like Winnie at like one or even, you know, even as she's, you know, she's now surpassed like kind of what you're seeing the chimps be able to do, right? She can talk, communicate herself, you know, have like, you know, hobbies almost. You know what I mean? Have toys and stuff. But like there's, it reminds me, it's, I feel like that there's a psychological thing there where they need to be with something that is 100%.

Reliant on them. I was thinking of this holding, because you've talked about this. I'm trying to remember when else we've talked. Well, I've been talking about baby people and how baby people disturb me because it weirds me out a little bit. If you're so obsessed with babies, you just keep wanting to have babies.

And then the second they kind of grow enough out of that, you're like, done, done with you. And because there's, I think it's a, speaks for it's a deeper thing of like, they need something that is 100% reliant on them. Yes. And they have that version of love.

Absolutely. And I'm like the opposite. Like the greatest joy for me is watching Winnie have more and more independence, right? Like, I mean, I'm thrilled that she's now going to school. It just feels like such a feeling of accomplishment. And I feel like I have a more fun relationship with her, the more she's able to kind of like go off a little bit into the world on her own and like have experiences and not need me for everything. It is. And so it's really odd to me the people out there that like want just babies in their lives.

I was thinking because I think, yeah, we've had this conversation before about kids and how parents have this, some parents have this feeling that, yeah, as their kid becomes somebody who you can't control, you can't control your kids once they're their own person. And you realize this person isn't me reincarnated. This person isn't somebody who I mold like clay. This is their own person. and it's kind of like dizzying when you realize that as a parent you're like I fully, you are fully your own person

but that won't happen with a chimp because the chimp is not gonna go off and do their own thing right? Or they'll want to or one would argue when they end up ripping someone's face off it's because it is their finally lashing out because they don't have the ability to go

hey I want some sunlight I want to be able to like have time away from you I want to be able to like go be in the trees I want to hang out with other monkeys. They can't communicate this shit. And so regardless of how they feel, the person's just going to make them whatever, the person wants to make them.

Totally. It can make, it's about, they can create them in their own image in a way that you just can't with a human being. And there is this pathology that all of the chimp lovers have where they're like,

this, this chimp will love me unconditionally. They will never leave me. And they won't leave. I will always have to take care of them. They will always need me. And the, meaning I get from being needed by this chimp, most kids, when you're raising them, you get to a point

where you're not needed. And then I think that leaves a real vacuum for people, for some people. And I think that there is, that is totally channeled into this thing where she was like, I just need to take care of people. I just need to take care of people, which is the reverse of that is, I just need people to need me, you know, and I think that that was what was going on with her. Start a vegetable garden. You know, they always need you. The vegetables always need you. You need to always be watching them. You need to make sure that they're doing well. And you don't have to worry about the vegetables ripping your face off. I also will say if you like love babies, I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the people out there that like keep having babies and like. Yeah, people who have like 12

kids because they just always be a baby. And then like they aren't great towards their kids once they get, you know, older. I think there's something going on there that's odd. And she even had that. She was like a foster parent, all this stuff. And constantly said, which is one of the mind-blowing early things she says and then she keeps repeating it and their sons speak towards it. I love Tonka more than my own kids. More than my children. She had two children. More than my children. On Wizard and the Bruiser, we find all those crazy little moments in geek history that made the things we love into inescapable cultural behemates. If you love video games, movies,

comics, and anime, this is the LPN show for you. But wait, Holden, it's not just educational. Shouldn't we talk about all those crazy boner jokes we make all the time? No, Jake. No, we will not. Fair enough. Last Podcast Network presents Wizard and the Bruiser. Find it on your favorite podcast app and hit that little subby-dubby button. Ooh, we would love it if you did that.

Oh, that would help us out so much. God, wouldn't you love to do that? Don't I sound like the kind of person you want to help? Like hit the button. Like, just do it. Yes, she had two children. She, we meet the son. she never talks about her daughter.

I'm like, what happened to your daughter? Who also was a disabled kid who probably still needs care as an adult? Where is she? Where is she? Are you taking care of her? And then the son just kept saying over and over, like, every time that son, he was a compelling character.

He was like, he obviously loves his mom so much, but he was just like, I mean, all of the sons of the chimp ladies, there were several. Two specifically sad sons, Buck's human brother and Tonka's human brother. They just want to be loved by their people. parents and they're not. And they want to be taken care of by their parents and they're not.

This vulture article reminded me of the finale of the third episode when the long amount of footage of Tanya listening to the jelly roll song and crying as she sang along to it in the car and how that moment where like I feel like that's the perfect explanation when you were talking about earlier about like it's not so much like he's not making fun. fun of them. He's letting them show who they really are. That moment, you want to laugh at this person. But at the same time, she truly thinks she is doing the right thing. She thinks she is right. And it is so, it's so interesting to watch like the human brain and what it can do to you. Right. And what it can say and make you think.

that you look at this woman and I just, I feel bad for her, but I feel more bad for the muggeds. Oh yeah. And they do, right, there's these moments where you, like, I found myself thinking like she's the only carer Tonka has ever known. Maybe

he does miss her. So there is, might be something with that. Yeah, I agree. But A will never know. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then you see her, you know, she puts on this huge show of weeping to the judge about, you know, Tunk is dead, Tuck is dead. And then when the judge rules basically in her favor

being like, we know you're a liar, but we can't prove that he's alive. So, and then she just stands up and she's like, okay, we're good. And then just walks downstairs and you then reveal us that Tunk is in her basement. It is a, oh my lord, what a documentary. What a documentary. It's such a good docu-series. I know that we spoiled a lot, but honestly, we did it. There's so much. And Holden, you brought this. up up top two where it is such a tight docu series. It is not one of those docu series that says the same thing over and over again

or like shows the same. It's like, no, there's so much upsetting stuff it fills four hours. Yeah, it does. And it covers a wide like, like Gideon and I were when I was at first I was like, do you want to watch Jim crazy? And he said no politely declined and I was like, why would you not want to watch Jim crazy? And he was like, I don't want to learn about Travis. That that story upsets me, which is the famous incident that everybody probably remembers. And I was like, this isn't about Travis.

This is about the world of chimpanzee ownership. And he was like, you don't think that it's a small world. And then sure enough, it is a very small world. The world of gym ownership is a small world. Very small. And I'm glad it's small. It should be. Yeah.

Yeah. Missouri, what are you doing? It's devastating. It really is like if you are, you know, somebody who gets very upset. at the thought of things that aren't good happening to animals. There's no animal, well, no, never mind. I was going to say there's no, like, explicit animal abuse,

but obviously the whole thing is animal abuse. Yes. So, never mind. They're being kept as animal abuse. They think that they're doing a good job. But it is, it is just a stunning documentary. I've never loved Alan coming more in my life. Like, his arc of being like, I really loved this chimp.

I thought I had, like, a human friendship with this chimp. And, like, I loved him. I loved him. much. And then that he goes through this personal experience of being like, I can't, I can't love you this way. Like, you have to be free. Like, I have to help you be free. It's just, it's, it's, it's, is stunning. Absolutely stunning. I'm so glad that we absorbed it. And if y'all haven't watched it, highly recommend that you check out chimp crazy. Now, we can go. There are many different ways we can go now. Secret lives of Mormon watch. Yeah, give me the patch. You got it. You

Who got it, why should we all be watching the secret lives of Mormon wives? Because it's insane. It is. I, okay, so here's the thing. Holden was like,

what makes this different than what makes this different than all other nights? What makes this different than all the other reality shows? Right. So this is a reality show that starts in the middle,

basically. It starts with this woman who is a famous TikTok influence. it's a group of Mormon influencers who are called Mom Talk. And the beginning, the first two minutes of the beginning of this reality series is one of the women has already made a TikTok in which she says that all of the women and Mom Talk are swingers and they're all fucking each other's husbands. And they all fuck each other. And that's how it starts. That's how it starts.

And we are working it. We are living in the aftermath of that. It's not even about, I keep being like, I need a prequel. Somebody make the... I know I need a prequel. I want to know more about that. Because I want to know more about that. That's not even what it's about.

That is the baseline from which the community is moving forward from. This, and she just made this video blowing up the lives of all of her closest friends. Ripped them all up. And now this show is about them trying to heal as a friend to group. And trying to continue to make... money off of brand deals on mom's time. And I'm just like, what are you talking about? Love it. Love it. Love it. It is. And it's just like the most, the most inside, I've, the most inside fascinating view of Mormon life. And I actually, you know, I talk about all the time about how

I accidentally followed a bunch of Mormon mom influencers. And they love it. They're like, it's a good representation of what it's like to be Mormon like because there's something. people who follow all the rules and consider themselves very devout. There's some people who identify as Mormon and don't follow some of the rules. There is like a whole range, but like it shapes all. Don't get me wrong. I'm happy for like the people that are Mormon that want to show a side of like, you know, not all Mormon people are what you think happens in Salt Lake City. You know, it's like it's not all just that. And but it is funny that like the side that they're trying to show is like, yeah, we all fuck each other and we all do sexy teen dances into the video cameras.

And I know that I shouldn't just break it down into just that. But I do think it's funny words like, I mean, can't we just show like where are the regular ones? Like the ones that are like, yeah, I still have a coffee. I know I shouldn't. Like, can we just like have those as well? That was why I thought it was so funny to see these mom influencers, these Mormon influences that I follow, be like, yeah, it's pretty good.

It's pretty accurate. I'm like, it starts with somebody saying they all fuck each other. They all love each other. And it's so messy. But the Mormons in Utah are like, yeah, we're messy. We contain multitudes. It's fascinating. All right.

Oh, man. It's fascinating. And the fact that they're still trying to work on it together. And the fact that, like, this woman just, like, underwent, like, a huge public divorce. And now the person that she's, like, what's his name, like, date? Dakota. And she was just like, mom, should I be dating this guy? but she had made like a mom talk where she was like, should we date?

Should we should like doing this like dance thing? And I was like, what is y'all's lives? So you're so immediately sucked into it. I'm just like what, but again, I am not usually like a real housewives person. Like I've never really gotten into the world and this is definitely more in that realm. But I do appreciate that someone referred to it that it's more like the real housewives of Salt Lake City. which is the only real housewives that I love. It's the only one I am a part of.

Then I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Yes. I mean, because they're so insane. It's, it's, I'm sorry, but Mormons are endlessly fascinating because we don't have communities like this in our country that are this vivid. Like, I mean, we do, but their, American life is generally like, you know, pretty fractured and people, community isn't always like so explicitly. like you're in this group.

These are the rules. This is how we live. This is what we do. So it's just to me, I love Real House of Salt Lake City too for the same reasons because it's just like there's this code like that you all have to live by that's so specific,

even more specific than other types of Christianity or other religions in general. It is hyper specific. They're like, we all drink soda. We can't have coffee, but we have soda. But then within that there's all these different ways that people rebel. But it's just like,

it's like a club, you know, and so it's just really interesting to watch the drama that happens in a large club, like the Mormon faith. It is. And also all I can think about is like, man, y'all are trying to like get your relationships back together and create this friend group again. But y'all were just think of that dirty, dirty fucking suck that y'all had. And don't get me wrong, I am able to be friends with people that I have fucked in the past. I'm very bad at staying friends with people I've dated. dated, but people that I fucked was never really a thing for me. But imagine being in that realm, looking at everybody being like, fuck your husband, fuck you, fuck your husband, fuck you, fucked you, fucked you, fucked you all together.

Everybody knows because one person decided to go rogue and tell everybody that you all fuck each other. How do you talk to that person? How do you talk to the person that just like blew up your life? And, and now you're, that's what the show is. Oh, God. Oh, Holden, you're going to love it. Yeah, I'm in.

I'm in. I'm down. I'll get in there, dude. But now you've got to tell us about Popstar Academy. Yeah, baby. Well, geez. Oh, man. I'm making me feel like a pedophile or some business.

I just, I'm going to say it up top. And I did make multiple jokes towards my husband because I also started watching PopStar Academy, Kat's Eye on Netflix. And just thinking about Holden. And I was like, thank God I know Holden so well. Because if I didn't know you so well, I would be like, Holden. Why is a 40-year-old man watching pop star guys?

Because it's a bunch of 17-year-old girls dancing around in tiny clothes. This is Leonardo DiCaprio's dream. The oldest woman is 20, I believe, who has tried to become a part of this pop group. It is, it is Hibbe and Gaffin, who are, like, massive, you know, in the music industry. Hyby, I believe, did BTS responsible for a bunch of massive K-pop groups. Geffen is Geffen, you know, massive music industry, American side of the music industry. And together, they've teamed up to try to create a,

essentially in the very first episode, they're like, we want the K-pop without the K, we're forming a fully, like, international girl group. So it's not all Americans either. It's actually, like, really super diverse, like, the fucking ultimate, you know, international, like, you know, thing. And they're doing it the way that, like, K-pop groups are formed.

I'm fascinated by K-pop. I'm fascinated by the whole machine that like churns out groups like BTS and Black Pink and, you know, so many others and how that all works. It's like a very different machine over there than what we have here. I mean, we kind of... It's actually like a trainee program. Yeah, it's like a huge, you know. And also, like I, you know, we just did the Cowgirl cheerleader series. You know, it kind of reminds me of.

that because it's the whole process of like a bunch of like really talented people all competing to try to be like the final group that gets to like go off to do the thing but what I like like the potentially they could become very rich and successful whereas the cheerleaders they're like we get paid you know in dog food we just like the team we just like the football team but they all get to be a part of their football team this show is watching these poor yon people get broken down over a year of training. What do you think? To see if maybe they're even good enough.

They can get cut at any point. They are put from A, B, C, or D in every category. They are consistently, publicly in front of everyone ripped apart by people. It hurts my soul to watch. But it's also like this is where like you get a Beyonce or, you know, of a, a fucking, you know, even a T Swift in the, you know, or whatever. Like, this is where a, you know, Ariana Grande. Actually, it goes to show how, I'm going to say it, Holden, how much not good of a performer

Taylor Swift is. Sure. When you're watching these young people because them dance. Them, like, being focused on not only the movements, but like what their body is saying, what their face is saying every second. of every performance. Like, it's so much. And once you start watching it

and really seeing all the performances, you start to click into like, that person just has it. And that person just doesn't. And they're doing the same dance and they're nailing all the steps and they're singing the same song and they're technically on the same level.

But this person right here, I just can't look away from. And this person is just not, I don't know what it is. And it's such an interesting thing. It's such an interesting thing to like hone in on, you know? And yeah, what were we going to ask MJ? Well, that reminds me, hearing you describe it that way, it just reminds me of like American Idol, right?

And I guess what the voice is. And you're like, for some reason, like you have this compelling. But American Idol didn't really end up producing. Like you say it could be the next, the next Beyonce, the next T-Swift. It just seems like that's this whole audition process isn't really how we find talent. I don't know. I disagree a little bit. That's like a game show, like a reality competition show.

This is like a documentary about giant forces in the music industry trying to create the next big thing. It feels less like, yes, there's like competition and you're maybe going to root, you know, for favorites and stuff like that. But like at the end of the day, they truly are, it feels like are trying to put together a girl group that will be like the next big thing. And I'm interested to see if something comes out of it or not. but got it's also a part of the reason why they're so hard on them is because they're going to like it's not just oh then you're just let go like oh we put you together and then you're like oh it's a part of the machine where then they're put together and then the machine keeps going and pushing them as a group as a team and so they are more guaranteed a career and a path

because of the people in the group that is moving the whole machine which by the way this is idol culture. This is in Japan and in Korea. This is how they do things. I just realized, I was looking at the description. I'm on episode five, and it says this is like the part where fan votes determine contestants advancing. So that's like similar-ish

to an American Idol, but it's not because like J-pop, K-pop, like, it's an actual thing that like is they use to create hopefully what will be the biggest hit. Like they start bringing in the fans

once they've kind of gotten the ladies up to a certain level. You know what I mean? And then once they're at, you know, and made some cuts and stuff. And they like keep bringing new people in as well and like trying to find that dynamic group where they have everything. And I think the other cool thing is like there's nobody who's just incredible at everything. Everybody's got a specialty and a strength. And there's the dancing.

There's the singing. And there's just the attitude, right? And you see that with every girl group, right? every group, right? That it's like that. So I don't know. I'm just so, the pop industry is so fascinating to me.

And like, you know, especially now that like, like we kind of helped create the monster that is K-pop and the idol culture stuff in Japan with the pop going on with us. And then they kind of are now influencing our industry.

And it's, that's what's so interesting to me is how they like do all this stuff. Because if you look at like, you know, And anime or manga culture is the same way in the sense that like you get your stuff into a manga magazine where every month they put out new and it all comes down to you live or die by a fan vote. And fans are the ones who decide who gets to keep running their, you know, comic essentially, their manga in the magazine, right? and it's just this extremely organized way

that they have created these industries that involve voting and you know, specialists that, like, curate. And so it truly ends up like a machine. And that's why you get, like, when you see like a BTS performance, it's next level shit, it's crazy.

Like they're just perfectly in unison. They all have like a specific style and vibe that makes them kind of stand out to specific fans. And, you know, they've all got like just, it's just, that takes hours and hours and hours and years of practice and rehearsal and dealing with, like, constant criticism and, you know, all that kind of stuff, you know. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to start watching it.

I think it's very, another very cute thing that happened was that when Jackie told Holden, she was like, there's just a bunch of teens and skimpy outfits dancing. singing and singing and Holden was like, I didn't even think of that. I'm only thinking about the pop in this tree. We definitely commented. We're like well, we definitely commented on like, wow, they're so young, right? But it's like, for me, it's not, you know, we definitely noted how fucking young,

I think the youngest one's like 14. They're very young. I think there was a one. Like, it's crazy how young they are, but for me it's just being fascinated with the K-pop explosion that's happened, you know? I guess I'm also just thinking of someone that was

a, like a young woman at the age of 14, 15 at one point, I can't imagine, you know, like, they, like, they just are being told, like, you don't have it. You don't have it. And I can't imagine how soul crushed you would be after months of training for someone to just look at you and be like, no. That's the other thing, dude. Sorry, not it. They're like, they just brought new blood into the thing. I'm on episode, I, in episode four, they like brought new. blood and they literally say some of us have been here for a year. Wow. They've been there for a year.

Yeah. Like you don't even realize you think it's like, oh, maybe a month or two, like most reality type of things like that, no, no, no. There's over 18 months. They are going for months and months and months every day hammering away to try to chisel them into like this, the greatest, you know, five. I think it's going to be narrowed down to five, I believe. Yeah.

a five-girl K-pop-ish thing. It's cool. I was just looking at ahead episodes. For their second mission, the girls travel to Seoul to prove they can sing while dancing. And so that's like them,

they're going to go to Korea and they're going to like see the industry there and all that kind of stuff. You know, I mean, the history of idol culture in Japan, too, is so interesting. Perfect Blue is, I believe it's... Oh, my God, so good.

Yeah. It's kind of a great anime film from 1997 that is about idol. Like she starts off as an idol and it's about essentially like getting your fandom and creating it and like cultivating it. And it's so cutthroat there to become like an idol on a certain level, you know. There was also a really good Netflix documentary. Fuck, I can't remember about idol culture in Japan and like low level idols. Because that's such an interesting thing.

You're just in a tiny venue with like a room full of mostly creepy guys. And like they're like, we like this one. It's just like, you know, but that's nothing compared to the top dogs who are, you know, filling out arenas and stuff like that. It's just a crazy. And you just have to like, fast. Is it called Tokyo idols? I think so. I think so.

And that was really interesting, too. That always fascinates me, too, you know. I mean, we just saw Chapel Rhone go from, you know, these little theater. I was watching footage of her in these little theaters performing the four or five songs that she had on YouTube. Yeah. And then covers. You know? And a year later, I'm seeing.

Now she's on the cover of the roll and stone. And that governor's ball image just blew my mind. When I saw a giant field, thousands of people all there to see Chapel Room perform, you know, and you're just like, God damn, this is crazy that you can just, this can happen to anyone is crazy. Which is why I also appreciated in one of the episodes on Pop Star Academy, they were talking about bringing in mental health professionals to help the girls. Really? Talk about it. Dude.

As you fucking should. Like, I feel like that should be like the first thing out the gate. Yeah. Also for the girls who lose, but also for the girls who win. Right. But also for, yeah, for just what they're going through. Yeah. Totally.

It's wild, man. It's an interesting machine that is just so prominent now in the world. All right. Well, that's that. Yeah. What else do we got? Yeah, man. Speaking of wild and something I wasn't necessarily thinking that.

that I was going to enjoy based on the trailers. That's Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. Oh, yeah. We're talking Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. Oh, yeah. Really? Man. So happy.

So we've been seeing the trailers. Obviously, we go to the movies all the time. So I've seen the trailers multiple times. And I was not, I was definitely one of those goth babies. I was like, go ahead, try. Fucking try. Let's fucking see. You know, like, of course I'm going to go see it.

But I know I'm going to be upset. And I definitely, I saw it on Monday. So it had been out for a couple of days. And I was seeing, and like, I talked to a good friend of ours, Mike Lawrence. And Mike was like, honestly, I kind of liked it. I kind of liked it. I was like, really? Okay.

So we went in. And you know what, guys? Delightful. You were so right with what you were saying, Holden, on one of the other shows when you were talking about Tim Burton getting back to being practical Tim Burton. Tim Burton and it is what was needed. And while, you know, I don't think that this is going to be the kind of movie that I'm watching all the time or will ever watch in the way that I used to watch Beetlejuice. But I think it's really fun for the people that didn't grow up with Beetlejuice

to have this as a fun. Also, I mean, way too many like plot lines were jammed into this movie. But you know what that means is that it was an hour and 40 minutes of, fast plot, fun things were going on. It never stopped. It never got boring. And it was only delightful. And, you know, Catherine O'Hara can just fucking do no wrong in mine eye. Catherine O'Hara is perfect.

Winona Ryder really shocked me too because I thought, and so did Jenna Ortega, because I kind of thought with both of them, it was going to be a little bit more one note. I'm going to say it. I came in with a judgy bitch pant on. And I was waiting to be like, oh, great, Jenna Ortega just doing another Wednesday. But she wasn't. She was trying new things. When I were a writer was like, oh, she's just going to do a carbon copy of Lydia Dietz.

But no, it really did, like, feel like Lydia Dietz had grown up. And Justin Thoreau was very funny in it. It's very fun what they did with Jeffrey Jones in it. because, you know, what do you do? Because if someone dies, it doesn't mean they're not a part of the film anymore. So they do fun things with that. I genuinely laughed through it. And I also will recommend, again, I know that might not be a possibility for the parents out there.

But try to see it in the theater because seeing it with a bunch of other people was really fun. I think that a lot of people were a lot more delighted by it than they thought. You know, the film industry has changed so much, and the, like, blockbuster movie industry has changed so much. And if you look back on, like, the movies that came out, the year Beetlejuice came out, and, you know, Beetlejuice itself being a giant hit in theaters when it came out, you do have to, you miss it. You miss movies like that hitting all the time, and they were just something completely special and unique and different and not related to any existence. IP or not trying to be a cinematic universe or in this kind of machine that has been created to try to guarantee numbers, you know, which is kind of where we're at now. And it's sad that it's, of course, it's still, it's a sequel, right? But at least it is fun to like harken back to a time

when a Beetlejuice could just happen, you know, and be, you know, make big waves with theater audiences. I hope we can get some more new stuff out for sure. Yeah, love it. Now, you say new stuff and I will also throw it out there. A friend of mine who works in the horror industry told me weeks ago that the movie Strange Darling was coming out and that I should not watch the trailer and just go and see it. And I immediately hit her up after I watched it and said, thank you so much because I, in fact, did not only not watch the trailer, I knew nothing about the plot. All I knew was that the movie was called Strange Darling. And my friend knows about me how I feel about horror movies, which is, you know, if you're trying something different, whether it works or not, usually I'm down because I watch so many horror films. And Strange Darling did.

It was like told in a different fun way. It was surprising. Of course, it didn't like break my brain when it came to the twists and whatever was going on with it. But it was essentially like two people acting their ass off. Kyle Gullner, who I've been really, really enjoying his career and what he's been doing because he is like this indie horror dude that's just been fucking killing it. And if you are a big

fan of like, Welcome to the dollhouse and those kind of weird movies, if you are interested in a grown-up version of Welcome to the Dollhouse, he's in this movie called Dinner in America that Jeff and I really truly enjoyed. Again, not for everybody. But again, if you like, Welcome to the Dollhouse,

you'll enjoy dinner in America. I really, I really liked it. and I was really surprised by it. And I wanted to say, thank you so much, Clark, for telling me to go see it. And highly recommend you guys.

I think it's already, it zipped in and out of theater because it's just an independent horror film. But start looking for it. Again, it's called Strange Darling. I'm going to assume they're going to dump it on Shudder at some point. And when they do, hopefully I will tell you guys about it.

But definitely look up, follow Kyle Golnar's career. Apparently, he's in Smile 2, which excites me. Wow. Okay. Hey, well, this is a productive one, guys. You got a lot to watch. You got some theaters to go to.

Yeah, it's already passed, but just worst X ever, you know. The Lacey Peterson one. Yeah, I started that one. If you just want an endless array of, I had to break myself in the cycle because I was like, what other postings murdering their wives documentaries could I be watching? I was like, wait, wait, let's see something else.

Let's like watch something different. How about the Popstar Academy? Let's get a different thing going on Because it was just For a while there I was just in a weird void Of murder plots against lovers Which is mad

There's always more Sometimes If you want something that is the exact opposite of that Holden I had started pitching this to you earlier I don't think this is your bag whatsoever MJ But I would recommend wise guy

David Chase and the Sopranos Now this doc just dropped It's two episodes, and it goes into the making of the Sopranos as well as the life and career of David Chase who made the Sopranos and why he made it. I didn't think you cared about the Sopranos. Yeah, man. Okay. Then I would say watch this, because all this is doing is making me want to watch the Sopranos again, which I will do in a fucking heartbeat. I was like, Jeff, what's it called?

It's called Wise Guy, David Chase and the Sopranos. And even up top, David Chase is like, I feel like nobody gives a shit about my fucking life. What does it matter? Like, why are you asking me these questions? And then you start hearing about his life and you're like, because you're a fascinating person and how they put together this show was so fascinating. And like they go through like audition tapes and stuff like that.

Like, if I, I would recommend this to only people who genuinely love the Sopranos, like I do. And I, I know that a lot of people would listen to this or watch this and not give a shit about an old white man talking about the mob. But I am forever a Queens bitch. And oh, baby, you say mob, I say how high. And the answer is very high because I usually am. But I do recommend if you enjoy The Sopranos or just like the writing process and coming up with ideas. Because like he wasn't a mob dude, but he had a very intense relationship with his mother, which is where it all stems from baby. Oh, yeah.

We'll love that. Gideon and, yeah. I remember when we watched it a couple years ago, we went through the whole Sopranos for the first time for me. And it was amazing. Oh, man. it's crazy how like watching the other audition tapes for the people that auditioned for for Tony's mom in the show and you're just like oh that's not oh that's not and then you see her tape and even David Chase was like that's it's my mother that's my mother okay good and like ooh it's great I really I we only watch it it's like I think it's an hour and 10 minutes each it's two episodes or I guess two films if you think about it, but I watched the first one and I

loved it. Hell yeah. All right. Let's sing the song and get out of here. Good shit, guys. All right. We're talking TV with MJ Holden and Jackie talking TV and no it's going to get wacky because everybody

knows what everyone knows and everybody knows watching shows. We're talking TV with MJ Holden and Jackie This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.