Page 7 - Talkin' TV - There's No Empowerment Happening

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

On this week's Talkin' TV Holden is HOLDIN' SPACE for 'Let It Go' as it speaks to him more than WICKED and the evil Ariana ever could, even tho he did enjoy it at the THEATRE with Jackie, and MJ reports back that Moana 2 is a big disappointment and feels like a direct to video sequel, and in this week's final theatre experience Jackie was NOT entertained by Gladiator 2.  MJ is watching the new Netflix documentary about JonBenét, and Jackie brings news of The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City and the downfall of Jen Shah, MJ highly recommends the Troubles based drama "Say Nothing", and Holden joins the ranks of the Bad Girls Club.Wicked - IN THE THEATAHHHHHHHMoana 2 - IN THE THEATAHHHHGladiator 2 - IN THE THEATAHHHHHHNobody Wants This - NetflixAgatha All Along - Disney+The Creep Tapes - ShudderCold Case: Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey - NetflixReal Housewives of SLC - PeacockSay Nothing - HuluBad Girls Club - Hulu Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

with MJ Holden and Jackie talking TV And you know it's gonna get wacky Because everybody knows and everybody knows And everybody knows we're watching shows We're talking TV with MJ Holden and Jackie Whoa Holden did you forget about the song? I did I was like It took you by surprise

Frozen I was frozen I let it but I let it go And I held space I'm holding space for Frozen Are you quoting? Adenmauddin about it's Let It Go and Adele DeZem's version of Let It Go. The wickedly talented. The wickedly talented Adele Dezine's version of Let It Go. Because I think as a Cichette's man with that disease,

that Let It Go speaks to me a little bit more. So isn't that interesting? Arianna. Oh, it speaks to you more. Now, of course, we didn't get the opportunity to talk about Wicked last week. So we must, we must discuss how we felt. because Holden saw Wicked for the first time. How did you feel?

What did you think? You were angry. You were depressed. Were you embarrassed for how you felt about SpongeBob? I had a great time. How many negative emotions did you feel during Wicca? When he did turn to Ariada in the movie, it went, I'll do anything for you, Galinda.

What? Ha! Sorry. Spider? I'm sorry. No. If you look up Wicked, all right? If you put in Wicked into the Google search,

all of a sudden, magically, there's this little. little hat that shows up. And when you click the hat at the bottom of your screen, I know, it's scary. All of a sudden, they start playing defying gravity and bubbles go everywhere. I just didn't know what it was going to do. Oh, my God. That is scary. So you listen to me in real time getting scared.

That was not okay, Google. That is not a lot. It's taking over our lives. It's taken over the internet. Yeah. That was a lot. That was a lot. Sorry, Holden.

Has it taken over your soul? Has it taken over your brain? How are you? Are you Define Gravity? Are you holding space for Define Gravity? No, but I really enjoyed it. I think my first thought was like, I'm really glad, like, especially with that really epic opening and all the special effects and the look of it.

I was like, I think it's really cool that there's like a Lord of the Rings of the Musical happening here where there's going to be the part two comes out next year and assuming it's good, which, you know, who knows? I mean, everyone says the Act 2 is weaker than Act 1. See, the thing is that a lot of people say Act 2 is weaker than Act 1, but I dare say it arguably has my favorite songs. And Lexi said her favorite song is an act two as well. But also agrees that act one is stronger than act two.

It is strong as hell. But I'm just saying it's not like I'm not writing off part two. I feel like part two is also going to be very good. You're not like not looking forward to it or being like how are they going to do this? You know, or whatever. Can I just say I'm not looking forward to going through this PR experience again? Although I am looking forward to the press tour. Maybe I am.

It's given us the most. Yeah, it's given us so much meaning. More meaning since then. since the J-Lo breakup. It's the most like innocuous. Yeah, nonsense. It's perfect page seven nonsense. Because it doesn't mean anything.

It's all flu-fee-do. It's kind of like the Maroon 5 texts, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like, that's this kind of stuff we love here at page seven. It's like, yeah, it's sort of upsetting because it's like a cheating thing, but not really because it's so stupid. Yeah. It's silly.

Anyways, but yeah, with Wicked, I really enjoyed it. I was on quite a bit of edibles, and it was, and it was, enjoying libations, was enjoying drinks. And, you know, I, uh, I didn't know the, like, the, the showstopper song. So they kind of got to hit me. Like, I wasn't like, oh my God, here we go. Like, it was like, no, no, no, when the wizard and I happened, like, I didn't know that was going to be this really awesome epic moment. Right. And also MJ, everyone clapped after the wizard and I in our theater. Our theater was a lot of fun. We had a nice theater. We had a good theater. I did say, yeah, when, when Ethan Slater turned to Ariana in the movie was like,

I'll do anything for you, Kalinda. And I was like, I know that's right. You know what I mean? Like, I was like, yeah, we know. He's making SpongeBob jokes during the Wicked. But, uh, yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed it. It did not feel like two and a half hours to me. I was just, especially after a lot of like disappointing musical movie experiences, like I didn't see in the theater, but Wonka was like, just very disappointing to me and things like that. It was fun. It was nice to finally be like, this is why I love musicals and why I'm glad I went to the theater today because I'm glad I saw this with a big group of people. Yes, that felt right. That was so excited to see it.

And honestly, I was going in because I did see the original Broadway cast. And I was like, well, no Fierro is ever going to be Norbert Leo Butts. Like, I was like, all right, let's just see what Jonathan Bailey is going to do. And he brought it. He did such a good job as Fierro. he has all the charm, all the ego. Oh, yeah. It's the Prince Charming guy.

He is Jonathan Bailey from Bridgerton, MJ, the Anthony Bridgeton. And I, you know, I never thirsted necessarily for Anthony Bridgerton, but I thirst for Fierro. So sign me up. That's everything I've seen about, everyone is like, I didn't know I would want to bang Jonathan Bailey so much. I'm like, okay, all right. Dancing through fucking. fucking my life over here. You're gonna tippity chap,

gibbid and chap right over here, baby. I was very impressed by Jonathan Bailey. And that whole montage of dancing through life, I thought was beautifully done. And I really, I really enjoyed it. And I know that I went into it wanting to enjoy it. But I appreciated too, people like Holden,

people like Jeff, Jeff, who, you know, had never read it, didn't know anything about it. He was just like, that was a very good, Yeah, it was fun. I'm so glad. I want that. I want people to enjoy it. Yeah. You know, I think I also feel like holding space for defying gravity as we do, it was going to be maybe difficult to like pull that off in epic fashion in a in the movie that would meet expectations at the very least, much less like possibly exceed them. And I did feel like they earned that big finale. You know, they earned that big final moment of the movie. And it was epic. And it was visually really. stunning and obviously the vocals were like next level. So, you know, it was cool. It was just a very satisfying thing that was built up so much that like, man, they had to, they had to, they had a lot big shoes to fill, big ruby slippers to fill. It would have been really, as much as we've all, I've certainly hate being for myself, I've enjoyed taking a big dump on the press tour.

And I've just enjoyed everything about the press tour. I've enjoyed, yeah, that didn't like, fuck up the movie too. Even my loathing for Ariana didn't fuck the movie. I didn't fuck the movie because Klanda is hateable. That's how good. she was like it's actually how good she was very good that's great yeah she's very good but they also I find it interesting too what I like what Ariana did that like Kristen Chenoweth in in the original she's not as conniving as Ariana is in the movie like it is way more coming off as like oh I didn't mean to do that oh I didn't mean to do that so it's way more in that area as opposed to what Ariana did, and I like that she made that choice because she really distinguished the characters.

I thought that she did a great job of like, okay, yes, I'm going to be obviously, she knows she's never going to be Kristen Chenoweth, but I like that she ended up doing her own take of it, even though like the singing obviously was similar in the same, like in the character voice. But I feel like some people didn't like that she did that and I understand that as well. I just like that she made it her own. Yeah, it was... Absolutely. If you're gonna stand in the...

I think musical theater has a unique challenge with this, right? Because people are so loyal to it, it means so much to people. If you're gonna be like, I'm standing in the shadow of Christian Chenoweth, you can either be like, so I'll try to make myself the same shape

or I'll just try to do something different. And I feel like it's wise to be like, I'm not Kristen Chenoweth, but I am Ariana Grande. And going back to what I was saying about the Lord of the Rings of the Musical, like to have... So it's two and a half hours.

I don't know how long the next one going to be. But I love that after it comes out, it'll be this thing where like, it'll be like, every year I clear out this day in November to like have friends over and watch the whole thing together. And I think I, and I really like that. And like what I hope we do next year is like watch the first one like in the afternoon and then go see the sequel like in the theater that night. You know what I mean? I'm a hope we get to do that. And I love that that like exists. We don't really have that in musicals at all, you know? No. And it truly speaks towards that because it's also like a fanciful, you know,

there's flying monkeys and magic and all this sort of stuff. So in this giant realized fantasy world. So it really does feel like the Lord of the Rings of the musical in that way. And I love that. It is very funny because I have seen a fair share of people that I'm going to say I'm slapping a mudge on it. I've heard some mudge responses. And yes, that is short for curmudgeon. I've heard some mud responses. And I feel that, you know what? You're a, you're a loud. to feel how you feel, but as someone that really enjoyed Wicked, I really enjoyed the movie.

Yeah, hell yeah. I think that's great. I actually really want to take the kids because they keep seeing ads for it and being like, I want to see the princess movie with the bad witch from Wizard of Oz, but I'm like, it's two and a half hours.

It's long, yeah, you might need to wait until it comes out. We did see Moana 2 in theaters over the weekend. How was it? So, okay, you know the thing about... Heavy. You haven't heard about it. So Wanda 2 just, I know that it's, It's nowhere near as strong as the first one, and the songs aren't near as good.

The thing about Moana One is that it is a breathtakingly good movie. Yes, it certainly is. The thing about Lin-Manuel Miranda is that he is very annoying, but he writes incredible music. Very good music. Yeah, especially Disney. Like, really good at that. Moana and Encanto, the music is so good. And I'm not trying to hand it to that guy.

And I have nothing. If you're a Hamilton Stan, I love that for you. I've just never been a big Lin-Man-Man. well guy, but I, then I found out that he did how far I'll go and, you know, and Conto and Mike, oh, but he's very talented man. Oh, yeah. What did I, I saw a tweet that was like, Lynn Manuel Miranda is bad at many things, but writing Disney songs is not one of them. Yeah. Agreed. He's, and so, and, you know, the whole story of Moana, but I, I really feel like the music, I think if you took all the music out of Moana One, it would still be an incredibly moving story,

but like music does, it really lifts up the story to, it, especially. that movie. Come on. I mean, how many of the songs are like ingrained in your brain, you know, in Moana One. It's just so good. So he's not, he wasn't involved in the writing of the music for... I don't think he was involved at all.

Yeah. And you feel it. You feel the loss. Significantly. I did see, though, that the rock was like, because everyone was talking about how AMC wasn't allowing people to sing during Wicked. And the rock came out was like, you can sing during Moana too, if you. want, which also, that doesn't make any sense.

Rock, nobody knows. Songs. You're going to fucking sing along and Moana too, rock. But I know the songs. Everyone knows the songs, right? And they don't really reprise any of the songs from, like, it's, there's one moment where she says like, I am Moana, but like, it's, it's kind of trying to harken to the majesty of the first one.

But I just don't, I think that story was, I just, I just looked up to try to try to figure out exactly what happened with him in Moana 2. And the first Google's result for Lin-Manuel Miranda of Moana 2 is a Reddit post titled, We All O Lin-Manuel Miranda an apology after Moana 2. Because it's just so obvious that he made that movie what it was. Right. Yeah. So I'll read about it.

There's an explainer, what his absence explained. But, but yeah. So I think that the story is good. I think that any time, Frozen 2, the first time I saw it, I was like, this story makes no sense. Bring up Frozen 2. It's hard to. it's hard to construct a sequel when there's no sequel there. Yeah, there's a reason why all of those sequels went straight to VHS back in the day.

I feel like Disney forgot that lesson that like you don't really sequelize. You got to bring a new new IP out unfortunately for you. Yeah. You know, it just is what it is. Like it's so hard to sequelize those Disney, those really strong Disney movies. Frozen 2 has grown on me, but it's definitely like it's a 2. One of my kids is a Frozen One person One is a Frozen 2

And whenever the Frozen 2 wants to watch Frozen 2 I'm like ugh But like you know some of the music in Frozen 2 is fine or whatever Try Cars 2 bro It's the only movie she wants to watch She wants to watch literally the worst Pixar movie Is the only movie she wants to watch right now It's so fucking rough

By the way shut us to Toy Story That's one the only Disney movies that like killed It killed it when it comes to sequelize I know this is Pixar But I thought Inside Out 2 was Finns It was also really good. Very good. But I thought that

Moana 2 is like a pretty good story but yeah, not the staying power of Moana 1. Exactly. Yeah, not even remotely. Right, right. It doesn't need a whole,

you know, it should have been straight to DVD or straight to streaming. They should pop it up on Disney. You know, everyone will watch it eventually, but they, oh, they just, oh, Disney wants to snuff out that money. Oh, they want that money. Oh, they want that money.

baby. And honestly, I think that it's, I mean, of course they're going to capitalize on the love for Moana but I think a lot of people really were excited for this because people rightfully love Moana. Love Moana. It's so good. And then I saw it

and I was just like, this is like, it's not terrible. It's not too harsh. It was fine. But it's just, you know, it's very hard to talk about standing in the shadow of Kristen Shadows. Standing in the shadow of Moana is hard. Man. It's hard. In every conflict, there's at least one bitch. A huge bitch, a silly bitch. A little baby bitch, a raggedy bitch. But sometimes it's unclear who the bitch is. I'm Kara Klank. And I'm Jackie Zabrowski. And on our new Colin Advice podcast, we're going to help you figure out who's the bitch.

We want to hear your problems, dilemmas, and quandaries. No topic is off limits. Does your co-worker flirt with the boss to get ahead? Is your bestie having her destination wedding on a holiday week end. Is your therapist being clingy? Does your friend keep bringing her toddler to adult parties? Come on, there's definitely a bitch in your life and we want to hear about it. You can email us, DM us, leave us a voicemail and even call in live to talk to us in person about the alleged bitch in your life. Just go to who's the bitch.com for all the ways you can contact us. New episodes drop every Wednesday starting in October on the last podcast network. So subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Tune in to our live stream kickoff on September 30th on the last podcast network Twitch channel

where we'll be taking your calls live on air. Help us, help you figure out who's the bitch. Speaking of which, okay, so Jake sent me a, uh, the top 15 like worldwide box office movies of the year. You ready for this? Speaking of sequels. Okay. Number one, we'll start number one.

Inside Out two. Deadpool and Wolverine. Dispicable Me 4 Dune Part 2 Godzilla Kong the new empire Kung Fu Panda 4 Venom the last dance which is the third Venom movie

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Bad Boys ride or die Kingdom of the Planet of the Ace Obviously this came out before Wicked came out Wicked's number 13 now but maybe it'll probably go up

I'm guessing so yeah Moana 2 Twisters Wicked Alien Romulus it ends with us out of the top 15 movies, Wicked, and it ends with us are the only two non-sequels,

and Wicked is even just extremely based on an existing IP. It's like... It's like a series of sequel, right? It's fan fiction prequel. Prequel, yeah. So it ends with us, the number 15 movie on the list, the last movie of the list is the only one

that is not a sequel. Which does have a prequel book, by the way. Yes, but it doesn't surprise me that Gladiator 2 is not on that list because, baby, I went to, to go see Gladiator 2. And I was a huge gladiator fan. I was very excited to go see Gladiator 2

because of course, Pedro Pascal, Paul Meskel, are you, and like, I was just like, kiss, kiss, I just wanted them to kiss. And it was, man, talk about the opposite of how you felt with Wicked, where it was like over. And I'm like, I can't believe that was almost three hours. Gladiator 2 was just man, power of the sloth. Even the muscles couldn't give me what I craved.

It was such a like, yeah, I guess we'll make this movie. Well, I felt like- It might as well have made it a remake, right? It was kind of just a retelling of the- No, it's a sequel. I know, but it was like, but from what I've heard, it's like they kind of made the same movie twice. Like, they didn't really-

They made the same movie except the opposite, whereas this, like, it's like, when, like, the general becomes a slave, and the slave rises above. And this guy was like, I used to have money, but now I'm pretending to be a slave, but I am a slave. And it's like, I, so it's like, it wasn't enough of a difference for me to care. I'm going to say it. The script was horrible.

I even thought that kind of the choreography was, if a movie is supposed to be, all right, great, I'm not there for the script. I'm there to watch the fighting. I want to see glistening bodies fight each other. But it was like they took everything from the Gladiator movie and it's like, oh, you. Yeah. Remember that scene where there's a tiger in it? Okay, what if we do that scene? Well, we do it multiple times and we're different animals. It's like, okay. Yeah, you're just like, well, now it's a rhino. But it's baboons. It's like, but Paul Meskell does do. Pedro Pascal does a great job. Cottonneal does a great job. Everybody's doing a great job. So I don't think it was like, it was just, I don't know why they made the movie. It seems like nobody. wanted to make the movie.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's such a good point, too, that, like, because I was thinking about how long wicked is and I was like, well, the kids barely got through Moana 2. But also, Moana 2 just wasn't that good. So, of course, that was hard to get through. And I'm like, if I forget how much a long movie is fine if it's very, very good. Maybe not for a five and six year old.

But, you know, like, but then even a hour and a, I don't know how long gladiator two was. But if it's not good, you really feel the time. Really? It was, that's really, I think what it was. I'm telling you, you take an hour and 20 minutes off it, I probably would have loved the movie. There was no, with a script that like didn't need all of the explanation that they were, it's like, I feel like halfway through. I'm like, we get it.

Yep, he's, yep, we get it. And I also, though, realize that I don't think a lot of people watch Gladiator as a horny movie, the way I watch Gladiator is a horny movie, but I was so obsessed with Gladiator. And the more I talk with people about it, I don't think that this is a, I think I'm hashtag not like the other girls on this one. I don't know if this. I thought everybody hornyly watched Gladiator. It makes sense. I thought that was like an overarching experience. That makes sense to me.

Yeah. Right. And men watch it to be like inspired to be. Right. Yeah. People watch it to be moved by history. I loved the soundtrack. I loved like I used to cry.

Like I loved and I loved Russell Crow. but yeah, I think I'm going to go ahead and say, I think that the Rotten Tomato score is as high because I think a lot of people didn't expect much. And I expected too much for us. Yeah, I think I heard other people not be super critical of it. It was just like, it's fine. It's kind of the same movie told again

and Denzel Washington's the best part. That was like, though, what I heard. Denzel Washington is wonderful. Like, he's fun. He's great. Yeah, okay. He's the only one having fun. Because he's probably like, yeah, whatever, I'll fucking do this.

What do I care? Yeah. Yeah. He was funny. He was just like a, like, like, a bisexual slave management. And so he just was like big and fun. Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to go right into Gladiator 2. We were talking about sequels.

So it was hard not, I mean, it was right there. I know you guys also both have watched a lot over these last couple of weeks. Yeah. I didn't think it was possible to Ben. something anymore at where I'm at in life with the kid and everything and working so much. But, you know, when there is a will, there's a way. And once we finally finished, what were we working through? Once we finally finished something that I can't even remember, we were like, hey, let's dig

into nobody wants this. And, man, we flew. Really thought you were about to say, House of Villains. House of Villains. How's just like, I had a house of villains. We kind of stopped everything for we hooked into nobody wants this so hard. First of all, for binging purposes, please bring back normalizing like 20, four minute episodes because it really, really makes it better for this guy.

I am, sometimes I only have that much time at the end of the night to watch an episode. And other times, it feels so good to enjoy like three or four in a row like that, you know? And so I truly, truly enjoyed so much of this show. I hope they do more of these because it's not like a, I'm trying to think how many like romantic comedy TV shows are there, you know? It's like. And also well done. It's really well done.

It's really well written. It's just, it's a beautiful story. And it's so easily swallowed. Yeah. The cast is so good. The writing's so funny. And I love how it explores the whole like, rabbi Jewish religion

ins and outs and stuff. It kind of has like vibes of like my big fat Greek wedding. It has vibes of flea bag season two. It's got like really, it's just really funny and fun and they do a great job through and the cast is great. What's her name

from? Kristen Bell? Yeah. Well, Kristen Bell is fantastic but Succession actress, the sex order from Succession. Oh yes. Yeah. It's really funny. She's super funny. Please. the wife in succession.

I mean, she, you know. And then what's his name from, I'm so bad with names. What's his name from? Jonah from Veepe. Yeah. Yes, he's, he's a highlight for me.

Bobble, Bobble. They just, it's great. Everybody's great in it. Everybody's really funny and they pull off like a hard thing to pull off. By the way, her name is Justine Lupe. Justine Lupe. Just so that we can, you know. They, they, they pull off a difficult thing.

Like, um, a likable show about like a person who podcasts of corky. which is almost difficult to do to make us likable. I will say that. I think in a show like that and then this whole, like, rabbi thing. But it wasn't too, like, cutesy and self-aware. I feel like anytime, I feel like anytime I always like cringe anytime there's going to be like a character that's a podcaster just because it feels so like, yeah, we're doing it.

It's a new industry. Yeah. You know, this kind of like really disingenuous. But it felt kind of real, like, especially when they're like, our listens are down. You're not talking enough about what's going on. Like, as a new relationship. They thought that they dealt with that stuff. Yeah, they dealt with that stuff in a way that is kind of, you know, it's still over,

it's still silly to drop. Also, I always make the joke about how like when Ellen came out on the show, Ellen, after that, everyone was like, I can't believe after she came out, she got, the show got canceled. I used to like Ellen. The show got canceled, in my opinion, because after that, every single episode was like, have you been to the library before? Yeah. Well, have you been to the lesbian library before?

You know what I mean? And it's like, everything was like, there's a lesbian grocery store. Like, it was just so, I mean, where's this lesbian grocery store? Because I would like to go to one. It's Trader Joe's. But, you know, in this show,

they didn't do too much of that where it's like, have you been to the Jewish bakery? You know what I mean? Like, they didn't do. Like, I feel like they worked in the Judaism stuff in a way that was like enjoyable. The only, there was a couple, there was a couple of pieces of the time

saying that the depiction of Jewish women was not. very stereotypical. And especially because it was written by a Jewish convert, I feel like... Okay, got you. The creator is basically, it's her story. She's like, she, like, fell in love with, I don't know if he was a rabbi, but she fell in love with an observant Jewish person and she converted.

And so I, there was a, there was a time piece that was like, this is like a really stereotypical, like, the kind of like harping, nagging. But she was writing her experience, I'm assuming. That's from her point of view. specifically probably based off of people in her life. I'm hoping. The part where all of Jewish friends, all the Jewish ladies.

I can't defend. Yeah, the part of all the Jewish ladies who are friends are like being weird to the new Shiksa in the, like, I don't know. I feel like that from her point of view is probably pretty accurate. Much more exaggerated. But also exaggerated because in her head

it was exaggerated because she was. Yeah, I think the argument was just like, you know, this is a depiction of Jewish women that, like, do we need another one of these? But I'm just saying that was kind of the only dissent from the otherwise universal enjoyment of the show. Absolutely. I remember the thing we were working through was Agatha all along. We also, of course, I know that came out a while ago.

But I at least like to say there's a bit of redemption if you watch all the way through for that annoying song. It gets so much. Yeah. It gets so much. Even the song, even the thing everybody shat on from like the second episode. Yes. They like redeem themselves. with that corny thing in a really interesting way.

So yeah, definitely that got better. They nailed the ending on Agatha all along for sure. Really enjoyed it. I just wanted to slip in there real fast because you were talking about 20 to 25 minute long episodes and the creep tapes. Holden, I'm trying to pitch this to you right now. Did you watch creep?

Did you watch creep and creep two? No. The Mark Duplas highly recommend both of those movies. It is like a found footage movie. Mark Duplas is awesome in both of them. And if you like both of those, see, I thought you saw both of these movies. So that's why I was trying to pitch these. I'll watch these, though.

I love found footage. Dude, creep one and creep two are very fun, good little bites of movies. But what they did, and this is another thing that is like, ah, so smart, Mark Duplas. Again, if you don't like the creep movies, you're not going to like the creep tapes. But if you love the creep movies, the way I love the creep movies, these are 20 to 24 minute long snippet. bits of different. And once you know what the like story is, which is this dude that like has people that are filming come to his house, but he's crazy. That's just it in a nutshell. And every episode is a different person that he conned. But in 20 to 24 minutes, they are having

fun, effective scares. And everyone is different. And I appreciate it. But again, if you don't like Mark Duplass and you didn't care for the great movies, you're not going to like this. What are you watching this on AMC Plus? Shutta. Yeah, it's also on AMC Plus, but Shudder, yes. Shudder is the best $6.99. I spend a month. I need everyone.

I don't work for Shudder, but I would if I could. 699 with every, like if you like horror at all, get Shudder. There's so much on there. All the Joe Bob's, like, there's so much on Shudder. But the creep tapes is I'm really enjoying it And I was definitely like All right, 20 minute horror episodes

Let's see what they can like Make happen And everyone, I'm just like Effective! Very effective! Nice. Love a horror anthology Especially when it's found footage. Very fun stuff.

Cool. Sorry, MJ, I know that you are living in true crime land. Well, yeah. Do you guys want to talk about John Bonae? The time has come for Jean Bonae. Let's talk about Rompane. She's her little head yet again.

It's so funny. I keep wanting to watch this show and I keep putting it out of it. Lexi walks into the room and I go, you're just not. You can't. There's just no party that's going to enjoy this, this, because of the dead child stuff. Gideon walked in the other day and I was watching it.

And I was like, I felt embarrassed. I was like, don't look at me. Right, right. I felt the same way. I'm just like, I just love it. Or don't love it, but, you know, it's fascinating to me. Seems like you love it, holding. I have a question about John Bonnet.

I literally just ask Henry. I'm like, I don't want to watch anything about it. Just tell me. I thought you watched. Who did it? And why did they do it? I thought you watched the last one. Because that's the thing, there's just, I said the job.

I know the story. I don't want to watch you again. Because it's like, I feel like every three years we get another John Bonae Ramsey documentary on Netflix, by the way. It wasn't there like a big one on Netflix? What's the difference between this one and any of the ones that came before? I read a great substack post about. this. I'm going to bring up her Twitter handle at least. I actually cannot

find. It's Ashley Reese on Twitter, whose tweets I really like. Her handle is offbeat or bit. And she had a substack posts about this. I'll see if I can find the link for it. But she's just a... About this specific one. About this specific one. But also,

it's not only about that, but it's about the kind of industry of Jean-Mene theories. And And yeah, I got to find the name of it so I can refer people to it because I found it fascinating. She's just, she's a writer. But she was like, I am kind of an apologetic true crime junkie. I always have been.

I grew up, you know, watching news magazines, et cetera, which is also how I feel. And she's like, so and, you know, she's about our age. So she was like, I remember when this happened. I was a little girl too. And it, you know, I was kind of disturbed and fascinated by it. And so I've always just kind of kept an eye on it. And one of the things that she said that I thought was so interesting was. like that the Jean-Benay story, because it's such a extremely unsolved like murder and it's so rare to have such an extremely high profile, you know, unsolved murder with no like physical evidence, no real hope that it kind of, that like DNA or for all the kind of the ways that true crime is so, um, puts like forensic, uh, you know, forensic science on such a pedestal of like all these things can be known, all these things can be solved yet there's nothing.

you know, this remains this big unsolved thing. And she said, you know, everybody has a theory. And whatever your theory is, you're going to focus on, you're going to put a lot of emphasis on that and you're going to leave out all the other stuff. And so she was like the Netflix documentary, their framework is the police spent too much time focusing on the parents. And it like led them to like, like abandoning all of these other possible leads. And then other people are like, you know, my theory is that it was,

the parents and so but but you know so I it was just a helpful way of being like and it's it's not groundbreaking this is how anything any anything where you're trying to if you're trying to know something that can't be known you're gonna folk you're gonna have a framework for it but at the Jean Bonnet it's like this Rojoc test of like if you think it was the brother then you can compile a whole list of things about why

it was the brother and any other evidence the nine year old I know right it doesn't fit into that if you think it's the parents you can there's like there's all sorts of evidence for all the different theories, right? I'm finding, I read that, I'm reading this article right now that saying that essentially this one, the, what makes it different is that this is actually the first one that saying that the parents did not, like, it is very anti the parents doing it. That apparently in 2019, the father won an undisclosed settlement from CBS following a defamation

suit stemming from a 2016 special that pinned the killing on him. And then he turned around and sued their asses and made a bunch of money. So I can't imagine that this dude is still having to do this after all this time. But it's crazy. Yeah. But there's no way of being like, well, it for sure wasn't him. Of course. There's absolutely no way.

There's no way. The way that when we talked about the Menendez brothers story, it's like even though, you know, I feel like that's a story where we can revisit. visit it 30 years later and be like, oh, we have all of these frameworks to understand this that we didn't have then, like the fact that sexual abuse of boys is a thing. Like that, and that it's valuable to look back on the story from a long time ago now with the knowledge we have now because like it can help us understand something that happened a long time ago. None of that is going on with John B'nai Ramsey.

There's just no fucking answers. So befuddling. It's so confusing. And there's so many little things that's like, God, that really points to it being them. and or whatever. Yeah, it just, I think the crazy thing for me off the bat, and I need to watch more, I keep getting, I was going to say cockblock from watching it,

but I feel like that's really fucked up to say. Don't say that. Yeah, don't say that. But, you know, the version of that that's acceptable from watching it because, you know, Lexia will walk in and I'll be like, you just, I know you don't want to hear about a dead little girl. That is the last thing you want to hear about right now or ever. Probably for the rest of your life,

you'll never want to hear about that. ever again because of Winnie. But, you know, I think the crazy thing for me was that, like, the body is just in the basement and that broken window is down there with, like, the suitcase and everything. And I guess this just plays into every time something like this happens and it's very, like, there's a big mystery around it, you start to have to, like, do that thought experiment of, like, how would you react?

Or what's the reason? What's, like, the normal reaction? Are people acting normal based on these? And that's, it's a. mistake to be like you weren't acting how you should have acted or right well in the menendez brothers too apparently i i didn't realize like they left like went to a movie and stuff or i think they left and then came back and like they shot the mom again or something like that and like they went on then the shopping spree and all that stuff's just very like you think about that you're like that you

went on a shopping spree with your dead parents in the living room that just seems so outside of what one might do in that situation if they were really like, you know, fucked up about everything, right? And then in this situation, I'm like, I feel like I would go on a rampage through my entire, if I, if I had seen a know. So you have no idea how you would react. Exactly. So you're in the actual situation. Everybody thought the dingo ate my baby lady was not reacting. Exactly.

The dingo ate my baby was the classic example of like, you can't just like assume how someone would react. But I do think, but I'm immediately just like, he didn't run all over the house, like, checking every room knowing that someone broke into the house. Before you call the police. I know. There's a million. Or call the police and then go do it. But he ended up finding it after they again asked him, hey, look around the house some more. Like, it was like hours later from what it seemed like in the documentary. And I'm just like, really? You wouldn't just at least give a look into every single room in this crazy house just to like. see how they broke in or or you know try to find any evidence of anything or like I don't know that just like even that it but that's the problem with this case and the menendez brothers case right and I think the reason why it's not so contrary with the menace brothers even in hindsight is because of those little details that just make it really difficult to swallow you know and it's the interesting thing about documentary right because however you choose to present the facts I'm also somebody who can be convinced like especially when it comes to Jean Monnet because because I don't spend my life thinking about it. So if I watch a documentary that is like the police fucked up, they focused too much on the parents. Obviously the parents didn't do it.

I'm like, sold. Yeah. And then I read us the substack that's like the brother did it. And I'm like, you know, but it's because it's just one of these where you can find. Or I see an interview with the parents and I'm like, I just don't see it.

Right. Doesn't seem. Yes, totally. So it's very, or whatever. It's like, it's a, this case for documentaries is for true crime is the case is like the case that

keeps on giving because you can find, you can present. like a pretty convincing case on like you said Rorschach it is it's like it is what you see of it of so many different we're trying to see those side things of like what if we are nightmare people and these two people who've been through this horrible thing

are being extra tortured right right because they because they did not do it and you know under that reality and then you think about how fucking tortured they did and how more do it series just keep coming out about it yeah and just like keeps

swelling it back up has just got to be hell or they did it. And it's good that they're going through the hell. And honestly, I'll believe that's the thing. And I listen to the last podcast episode on it. I'm like, and I'm like, I don't know. Yeah.

It's one of those incredible stories. Like it's one of those just absolutely incredible stories of, you know, and true crime where it's just there's so, it's so icky and sticky and, you know, know that's why the documentaries keep coming out. And it's just, it's very,

you know, debutante little girl, rich family. Nepo baby, debutante ball, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, she didn't, she never got a chance to grow up

and be the apple at a debutante ball. Man, bully a girl to, you know what's not sticky and icky in a law situation? That would be the trial of a one gen shaw. MJ, how far have you gotten? because if there is one thing I dedicated,

my Thanksgiving to, it was the real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Okay. I've spent some time with the ladies of Salt Lake City. Does that count as true crime? It is just like the whole third season is about her and the trial. What's the trial around? What she?

Why you're a fraud. She defraudes old people. Love that. And so the third season. So I ask Carol. And I think she did it. I just want to. to thank everybody who sent in where MJ and I should start our real housewives journey. I just

want to say thank you to all of you. I did also forget that a one Kara Clank, my co-host of Who's the Bitch, is the largest real housewives fan. I know. So I was like, why am I not asking Kara? And Kara was like, okay, watch the reunion for the first season. Now, I'd already watched the first season. So I watched the reunion for the first season, which by the way is three hours long. And then I watched the reunion for the second season, which, by the way, is three hours long. And then I started watching the third season and I'm about 16 episodes. Yeah. So on your advice, I also started the third.

I started the fifth season because I was like, I know these bitches. I don't need that. They live moment to moment. They're going to parties and screaming at each other. I know. What backstory do I need? But that ain't a recommendation. I went back to season three and it was the right choice.

Kara did say, apparently season three is where the trial, she's like, if you want to watch the trial. watch season three and she's like if you want to watch the downfall of this bitch watch season three but season four

apparently pops quote pops the fuck off so I am which is wild to say about a show where every 20 minutes of every episode there's a pop off

it's a famously popping off show so I don't know what happens in season four I'll say that by season five just from what I did see they are mad at each other oh man

they're mad at each other and I just think that it's been so fun because I just keep texting Kara and I'm like, how do you watch this for so long and not think, all right, got to go get fillers? Like, I feel like I look at my face and I'm just like, I'm horrible. It's like because I'm watching all these real housewives of Salt Lake City.

Honestly, Holden, now that you are allowed, like you tell Lexi what she is allowed to do and what she's allowed to do, don't allow her to watch Real Housewives of Salt Lake City because she's going to come home and she, We got it. We'll talk about it more in the leftovers, but I think the reason why you don't do all that is the Megan Trainor article

where she literally says she's no longer able to smile. And I just think that that's more important to me as being able to smile. Why want to show, why, hold on, why would you want to show emotion? In fact, it was very funny because Jen Shaw's lawyers in an episode did tell her to stop getting Botox because she was crying in one of the depositions and it looked like she wasn't upset. set. And they were like, you need to stop and let all of this fall out of your face. So that you can show that you are sad for abusing and wire frauding all those elders. This is the best reason to not get it for all these rich ladies. Because at some point, it's going to be tax fraud. It's going to be paying your way into getting into college. It's going to be whatever it is. They're going to be on the stand. And they're going to need to show remorse. And that's when that Botox is going to kick in and really take them for a ride.

So, yeah, it's not going to be or not take them for a ride because they can't cry. No, no, I'm obsessed with them. I'm sad that Mary is not a part of this anymore and I'm hoping maybe she comes back in the future. I don't know what, like, I did look up the trial though and she did. I mean, sorry, MJ, spoiler. I know that she went to prison, but I didn't realize for how long. She went for six years. I know.

She really. She's in for six years, dude. She got, got, got. Well, it sounds horrible. horrible what she did. So it sounds like a for good reason. Yeah. Yeah, no, she deserves. There seems to be an abundance of evidence that she's, that she does evidence. And lots of people around her, like, took plea deals. And she just kept being like, why would I take a plea deal? I'm innocent. Why would I take a plea deal? I'm innocent. Why would I take a plea deal? I'm innocent.

Is so despicable to be. It's so despicable. It's so horrific. Yeah, it was just her ego got in the way of her take pleading down. Yeah, she got, she really got in trouble. And, and probably it's because she is a real housewife, you know, like, I think, yeah, they made an example out of her. Well, and you say I go, that sucks, but in this case, I'm like, good, that sounds about right. I really, because that's the thing. If it was, like, I'm going to be real with you guys.

If it was tax evasion, I'd be like, well, you know, totally. Like, when the situation got in trouble for taxes, we were all rooting for him, you know. Yeah. Like, well, fuck it. They don't deserve that money. Government? Or just shit happens. You get bad advice, you know, and you don't realize, like, the serious implications of the IRS and

the tax stuff, you know, I mean, yeah, it's Wesley Snipes. Like, it happens. It happens. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not morally on the side of the IRS ever about anything. But, you know, never, you know who I want to talk about, not the IRS, the IRA, the Irish. Yeah, the troubles. Sorry to take it there, but I need to talk about say nothing. So how far were you into say nothing the show about, based on a book about the Irish troubles, which has always been a fascination of mine ever since I was at a Boston bar and a friend, the person I was with ordered an Irish car bomb and they said, never do that here. You will get the shit beat out of you.

I'm glad that that way, it went the way of the dodo. Yeah, yeah. Just the drink. Yeah. The first time I said Irish car bomb from my mom, she was like, not funny. Don't do that. All right. Okay.

now I know. So, yeah, so say nothing. I'm about halfway through, I think. I can't stop watching it. Usually I fall asleep. Gideon's like, you're really not falling asleep very much during the show. I'm like, it's because I care about it much more than Deadpool and Wolverine, which it took us like six sittings to get through because I kept falling asleep.

So it's so good. It's absolutely riveting. Also, it's a weird connection to make. But if you like Dairy Girls, you know, Dairy Girls also about, you know, the contested Northern Ireland. Very different side of the troubles. Different side of the troubles. But this is, so it is based on a book, also called Say Nothing, the true story of murder and memory in Northern Ireland.

And it is the personal account of a woman who was in the IRA, which stands for the Irish Republican Army, which was basically the resistance army in the part of Ireland that is occupied Britain. And it explains all of this at the beginning. it's like Ireland is an island and then Britain tried to take it and for 800 years ago and there has been war fighting over it ever since and it picks up in the 70s. And so. Actually, weirdly enough last night, I watched this YouTube video by this dude C.GP. Gray that I like their videos. And it was just a short video which I'm going to say this and I'm confessing this to you, MJ, as if you are my priest. I didn't quite understand the difference between the UK, Great Britain, and England.

And so I watched this video and I was like, I, okay, because especially with things, it's like, oh, there's a difference and you should fucking know the difference. You should understand the difference. And Dairy Girls is amazing because Dairy Girls is so much about Irish Catholic culture in Dairy during like the 1990s part of the troubles. I don't know if the troubles encompasses the, I don't know if that's a time specific part of that.

But like, but it does, but, but Derry was so beautiful about Derry Girls is it's just about what it's like to be a teen girl during this time. It doesn't really get into it. Like, you see them talking, you see the parents talking about it. It's like in the background. Yeah. Exactly. It's like literally in the background on the TV.

Whereas, um, this is about a young woman who joins the IRA and it is a person, it's, it's based on her personal, um, accounting. And I'm trying to figure out who that Gideon looked. up last night, but the showrunner making the show version of it, which is on Hulu, is like a meticulous historian. So it's one of these where you can like feel fairly confident that you're getting. Of course, it is a personal account. And there is, but also another really interesting thing is that everyone who's in the IRA,

it's called say nothing because the fundamental rule of being part of this resistance movement was never, ever, ever speak about it. Of course. To protect everything. Yeah. And it was the 70s. So it's actually very novel watching it now because it's like, you know, nobody, there's no surveillance, you know.

Right. Yeah. So it was really possible for people to run this resistance movement out of, out of people's houses. Neighbors take, you know, it is, it is stunning. It is, it's just, I've always been interested in, in this. topic as maybe because I'm Irish, but also it's just, it's a liberation story,

but also it's like a violent liberation story. So it's a very controversial, you know, it's a difficult topic to talk about. And it, but it is a breathtaking show. I really recommend it. Questions since you all said this about dairy girls.

Do you need subtitles? Do you, do you, or do you, yeah, you personally, do you need some? I have subtitles for everything. We always have subtitles, but. I can't do that. It distracts me towards. I start reading the show. Yeah.

I have a really hard time like just watching something with, if I can avoid subtitles, I keep them off because it just, I start reading the show even though I don't need to. Everyone's really Irish, so I think you're probably going to want subtitles. Okay.

But it's, yeah, I don't know. I do it for that. I do it for, you know, like you said, Dairy Girls, but exactly. It's more like if, you know, it doesn't totally ruin the experience for me, but I just like,

I'm like, I'm not even looking at the visuals at a point, even though I can understand what they're saying. Yeah. I just start. I just my brain is fucked. Sometimes you read, like you read the joke ahead before they get to it. That too. Or you get the spoiler. Yeah, I know.

I have to have subtitles up for, you know, the reality show stuff we watch on Mondays for, you know, those reasons or whatever. And it's always like, if Buffy it happens sometimes sooner, I'm just like, well, didn't get to enjoy that. The tension build on that. because I just throw it out. Speaking of my Monday watch along, are you done speaking about say nothing? Yes. Are you done?

I will say nothing and more. With these troubles, I'm definitely going to watch that. No, that sounds great though. No, it sounds so good. I've been already excited to watch it actually because I'd heard someone else talk about it.

And I was like, that sounds great. It kind of makes no one to read the book. You haven't read the book, have you? I haven't, but my brother has and it's like one of his favorite books. Yeah, right? People love the book.

People love the book. Ooh, maybe I need to read that. But I was going to bring up, Speaking of, you mentioned earlier, getting drunk and fighting and all that good stuff and popping off. And I just have to say, I don't usually talk about the Monday watchalong a whole lot because we just been watching, like, flavor of love and charm school. And all these kinds of shows that, you know, we've kind of, we've talked to it before maybe or done our own watchalongs of. But, man, I threw on somebody suggested Bad Girls Club. Oh, God.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Club is awesome. Holy shit. Oh yeah, dude. Talk about pop off. Talk about, I put on episode one as season four, because I was said to be like,

one of the stronger season, which introduces us to Natalie Nunn. Oh, man. Which I did not know about Natalie Nunn. This is, um, she is a fucking absolute nightmare person. It's just, they just immediately get hammered and just scream at each other. Honestly, it's a little, like it's, I, it's a big. No, no, no, everybody agreed. Everyone was like, I want to start watching this on the Monday Watchlong, but for the first time ever, everybody unanimously was like, we both want to watch this for the Monday Watch Long.

And I don't think we can do more than one episode a week of this. It's a lot. It's really, like I could never really binge it. And so I've watched a bunch of episodes of it, but I just can't binge it. The format of the show is so pure and beautiful, especially for someone likes me, who really does truly just love trash. They're not even trying to hide it. They just cast, they found a bunch of bitches. and they just, they just like did a casting call.

Like, are you a bitch? And then they just like, come live in this house. And just get wasted. And there's no contest. There's, it's just come to this house. Get fucking hammered and fight with, and scream and fight at each with each other. But isn't it on like oxygen?

It's on oxygen. And it's nuts. And what's great is like, How do you watch it? Was it always on oxygen? I thought I get it. Yeah, it's on Hulu. It's on Hulu.

But what I was teaching when it was on. And a bunch of my, like... There's 17 seasons of it or so. It's insane. I thought that it was like an MTV show or something. It was a bunch of my... I at one point started a club called Girls Club that was meant to be like a girls empowerment club. And then some really...

Some girls joined it. We just want to talk about bitches. And they literally were like... We joined it because it sounds like bad girls club. And I was like, so it's supposed to be kind of the opposite of that. Yeah. In every way, dude, it's so... Yeah, there's no empowerment.

But it turned into bad girls. There's no empowerment happening. In the first episode, Natalie Nunn, like, defends Chris Brown for his actions against Triana. Like, I mean, it is just detestable. It is really, I mean, it was at points wherever it was like, good. God, like, do we even watch this? This is so over the top, you know, just. And I love that they picked, like, a couple of, like, kind of goody-to-shoe-y bitches

to be in there, too. They just feel like these sacrificial lambs that are thrown into the house to essentially just be like, they just like threw them at the wolves. I'm only, I've only watched an episode in a little bit, an episode one and a little bit of episode two of season four, but I'm immediately just blown away and how just absolutely gutter trash this show is, it is truly next level, godless. It is truly, it is definitely a case for like, if someone's like, to explain, you know, give me your reason why maybe there is no God of this land. You know, I, I, I, I, put on that episode of Bad Girls Club.

It is... Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Phenomenal. Sounds like we got a lot to catch up. Next week's talking TV. He's going to pop off because there's going to be more...

Maybe more Bad Girls Club. Certainly more Real House is a Salt Lake City. Certainly more real house. I think there's even more to talk about Bad Girls Club. It's just they get drunk and they scream at each other and you just endure it. And, uh, you know, so I just, I just... Which also I get it if that's your bag.

Some people dig that. It's my bag. It's my bag. I can't wait for next month. There you go. I think that's great. Well, you know, I know we're going to be talking more about the holiday movies we consume as we move forward, but there will be time for that. There will be time for that.

Thank you, everybody, for joining us on this week's episode of Talking TV. We love Talking TV at you all. And thanks for listening. And let's sing the song, guys. We're Talking TV with MJ. And Jackie talking TV And you know it's going to be wacky Because everybody knows what everyone knows

And everybody knows we're watching shows Talk to TV with MJ Holden and Jackie This show is made possible by listeners like you Thanks to our ad sponsors You can support our shows by supporting them For more shows like the one you just listened to Go to lastpodcastnetwork.com