Painkiller Already - PKA 826 W/ John Michael Godier: Most Terrifying Type of Alien To Encounter

Episode Date: October 17, 2026

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PKK 826. Super psych to have John Michael Godier, Taylor. This episode of PKK is brought to you by Audible, also by lock and load, everything over at Gorilla Mind, and our wonderful merchandise. John, thank you for hanging out with us this evening. Hoping to learn a lot. Hello, everybody, and it's great to be here. I didn't have anything else to do, so I might as well have come here and sit with you guys. Perfect. A great use of time.

Kyle is like the the space man I guess the space cadet I'll put it in our little group where he sends me your videos and all sorts of space related videos constantly and I'm very interested in it and the thing that Kyle brings up all the time that I wanted to start with is the Fermi paradox thing and what

because I want to know if Kyle if you if you maybe have the balls to disagree with them if you do. Like what is the most likely and least likely solutions for that Fermi paradox shit? And what is it for viewers that don't know real quick? Sure. I'm sorry. Okay. The Fermi paradox is simply an observation, originally done at a lunch at Los Alamos Labs in the 1950s by the physicist Enrico Fermi. And they were talking about the possibilities of alien life.

But he realized that, okay, yeah, the galaxy is very much. vast, but it's not that vast, meaning that you, you can cross the entire galaxy in a few million years and colonize the whole thing with probes. In just a few million years, at very, very slow speeds, you don't need warp drive for this because it's only 100,000 light years across. You know, it's not that big. And he's like, and his, that prompted for me to ask a question, well, where are they? Why aren't we seeing aliens everywhere? Why do we see nothing but a great silence to this day. And there are hundreds of, there's probably about, last, last time I checked on the count, there was about 140 solutions, possible solutions to the Fermi paradox,

as to why we appear to be alone. And they range all over. But the, perhaps the most likely is that maybe intelligent life, not life itself, but intelligent life, is just simply very rare and very, very, very you know, a whole lot of luck to get to us. And, and that may not happen very often at all. There may only be one per galaxy, but that does not mean that life itself is rare. It just means getting to intelligence is what's rare. That's probably the most likely.

However, there are terrifying ones and all kinds of things like that, because what if the aliens are there, but they're hiding? And we live in a zoo, the zoo hypothesis, meaning that they're just quietly sitting there watching us hiding, not telling us that they're there, but the moment we do something bad, they turn into the police and smack us back down. So there are many, many solutions.

And it just, the list grows each year as far as solutions to the Fermi paradox. As people think through and think, well, maybe this is true. Maybe this is the case. but it also pays to remember that we live in a time period where we've barely looked. You know, basically it's a bathtub out of the ocean, a bathtub of water out of the ocean is all we've done in SETI so far, as far as the Milky Way goes. And yeah, we need to wait about 500 years and have about 500 years more SETI before we can start to say, yeah, there doesn't appear to be anything out there.

I mean. It's just we're too early in the game to judge. But, you know, maybe intelligence is rare, or maybe we're very early in the game. Maybe we're, you know, the galaxy's old ones. You know, we're the first civilization. But in the future, there will be many more. And they're like, well, those extinct, you know, humans were the first. And it's anybody's guess. But it's fun to speculate about, which is obviously what I do. What's your theory? My theory, I think I like the rare intelligence one the best. Because it was very, very hard for us to get where we're at and arrive at human intelligence.

And look at the rest of the planet and its entire fossil history. There was nothing that could build a, you know, a Fort Bronco, right? We're the first. Well, that's a whole lot of animals and species that didn't make the grade. Only we did. And we only did it because it was very, very situational and we needed this brain. And that one seems the most viable to me, I would say. Now, I would absolutely love for it to not be true and that the Clingons and everything are out there.

But, you know, science, you have to, you know, what is. I want the Clingons to be there so badly. But the problem is, like, I do believe the Clingons are out there, but it's probably not in our galaxy. and definitely not in our time and the little brief window of like time that we exist like I agree with all that I've always I think that life is plentiful

I think there's more life in our solar system I wanted to get you to talk a little bit about the Mars samples from about 50 years ago that were they originally said we found life and then they were like oh no we didn't there's something wrong with the test and then of course everybody piled on NASA and now NASA has been super gun

for 50 years to look bad again. But on second glance, didn't those tests seemingly just do what they were supposed to do? They did. And ultimately, there was, so we had two landers, the two Viking landers, Viking one and Viking two, and they were identical. And both of them had four direct life-finding instruments on them. And so you had, it was repeated, right? So you have sample one over here, sample two over here, and the right. all doing the identical four experiments.

Effectively, every one of the experiments came back as a positive for microbial active microbial life on Mars. Three of them were somewhat circumstantial, and they were, you know, you could say, yeah, well, that, that's probably not what that was. But when you take them as a whole, it's like, whoa. But the fourth was called the labeled release experiment. And it is the one that always comes up. as being honestly pretty airtight as far as how the, you know, the experiment was. And I actually knew the principal investigator before she passed away, Dr. Patricia N. Schrept. And it gave a positive result.

And it said, yeah, there's something in the soil that's metabolizing. Now, later, it gets called me a question because people are like, well, maybe there are these perchlorates in the soil that, you know, mimicked by all, and it was just a chemical reaction. It doesn't work, though. A more recent work by Stephen Banner showed that it is not viable that that was what it is. So as far as we know, it's still an open question of whether there's microbial life in the soil of Mars. However, NASA did get gun-shy exactly, as you said, and they stopped all direct life-finding missions after that.

and they basically have spent 50 years messing around looking for water that they know was already there. Yeah. They got embarrassed and they got gunshot. That's not even gunshot. That's just quitting. Like, we're going to pivot to this thing. We can prove easier. And I've also maintained that if you want like the rank and file human to really care,

I have sort of the theory that the life we find on other plant. it's asteroids, whatever. It has to be at least the size of like a small lizard. Like to get the regular people on board, because if you go, we found life and you go, we found this little space bear that

can survive in horrible places for a million years. People are like, oh, I thought you meant like something like a cat. And then they move on with their day and they're not into it. That dog from Star Trek with the horn glued on top. Something like that. Precisely. Yeah, but not a classic.

But the fact is you're right in that microbial life will make the news for one day. And it'll be like, okay, there's microbes out there, you know. However, that could take a twist. Because if you get that microbe and you look at it and it's related to you, you have to start asking questions that did life actually on Earth actually originate on Earth? Or did we start on Mars and questions like that? So that can take a creepy turn, right? That's interesting.

That's the most important question if we do find microbial life, I think, is if it's part of some universal common ancestor of ours or if it's some entirely different genome. Maybe it's not even DNA. It's some other way of encoding life. Like whatever that is, maybe it's... Is our genome, like, aren't our... We're like left-handed, like, all of that.

life is uh it's uh yeah we're one side but there's it's completely possible that it could be the other side yeah there's no reason for it not to be left and right-handed and we just happen to end up with one of them but maybe something else ended up with the other and that would immediately tell you if you found something of opposite corality that has nothing to do with life on earth that is its own thing and that's one of the hopes is that if we do find it in like europa or wherever mars um tons of place is in solar. And Celadus, the atmosphere of Venus. Melodos, Pluto, you know, Titan, you know, there's just, it's everywhere, you know.

Wait, what's the rest of that? That's one of the hopes. What are we hoping for that it is related to us or isn't? I'm not sure what's cooler. Because if it isn't related to us and it's an opposite corality, opposite chemistry, mirror, basically mirror chemistry, it immediately says it's alien. And that means that life must pervade the universe. If it happened twice in one star system, it's everywhere.

Oh, I see. Yeah, because one implies it happened twice. The other implies the same parents fertilized two planets. That's right. Now, if it turns out to be related, that means that life spreads itself among the planets and the stars. You know, two stars get too close to each other. They infect each other. In other words, it would mean that all of these stars,

systems are sneezing on each other and that means that life's everywhere but it might all be related um that's cool too though yeah either way either way this is a win it's pretty neat yeah yeah yeah if it's that then you could almost imagine like what the life on a planet a star system away might not be that much different from ours in general if we're all related they've probably got some space cats and there might be a dog with a horn up there like they could be yeah that could be and there could be um analogs of, you know, because we know about convergent evolution. There's a reason a dolphin and a shark are shaped very similar and function very because it works, even though one's a mammal and one's a fish, right?

They are very distant, you know, relatives, but they look very similar. So that conversion evolution may be the rule. And you start to see things like, I don't know, yeah, a space cat, basically, you know, because that's a utilitarian design, you know, for evolution to arrive at because it works, you know. But you also might find crazy stuff. Like, for example, animals with wheels or something like that that never happened here. You just got to go there and find out, basically. Or the, you know, this silicon-based life from the original Star Trek where, you know, it was, it was a rock, a living rock, you know.

Yeah. Something else Kyle's told me about, you know, creatures and evolution in that is that, and I don't think it was Kyle like coming up with this. It was some scientist or something being like a lot of stuff wants to evolve into crabs and crabs are pretty effective. And then I don't recall if I was pondering my large collection of scientific tomes or if I was fighting through a brutal shit when I thought like what is, wouldn't that shouldn't. there be more crabs if if kiles correct this theory of crab volution have you heard this i would number one uh the last thing on earth i would want to be as a crab yeah they get fucked up all the time they're delicious yes with butter you know i mean you're going to get eaten you are going to get eaten if you're a crab but the second thing is that you can go more broadly with it with um exoskeletons

you know so as in lobsters and shrimp and anything else uh they're advantages to having that you know what i mean and um i could easily see there being analogs of that out in the universe and um you know that that looks similar and um and likewise may be extremely delicious that is their best sign that would be the most expensive of delicacies fucking crab from europa they had to drill through five kilometers of ice and then drop a crab basket down there and wait. You know people would do it. 100%.

You know people would buy that crab, your open crab and boil it up. You know that would happen. And you know, it's also likely that people would get back to Earth. They'd take like three bites of their $10 million crab dinner and be like, you know what? I think I like snow more.

I think you've got to figure out here on earth. I think snow crabs better. They would say it tastes like chicken. They say that about everything. Yeah. I don't. I have yet to find anything, and I've eaten all kinds of crazy stuff. I have yet to find anything that really actually tasted like chicken, except chicken.

I, well, I don't know, you can make a case for alligator tail or something, but. I've had alligator tasted like gamey fish. Reminded me of like frog legs, kind of. Yeah. Well, you're right. It was gamey. There was a flavor there. And that was about the only time I ever cared to.

actually try it. I wasn't, you know. Yeah. Frog legs are a little gamey, but I love fried frog legs. When my grandma makes those, especially when she made them as kids, that was fantastic. I know Woody and Kyle are, they look down on the frog leg munchers. Well, I thought you guys hated them. I don't know what you're thinking of. I don't remember saying that or

thinking it, but I think it's, yeah, I don't think we need to go to eating crab. I mean, uh, uh, frogs. There's plenty of other like less slimy things to eat. The thing about frog legs, though, is the creepy thing is that the leg will jump while you're frying it. And that always bothered me. But I grew up with that stuff, you know, being, you know, a quasi-cageon, basically.

And that's just what you had to eat, you know. But I probably haven't eaten a frog leg in 30 years. Yeah. I like that when you're eating. the frog leg, like the bits of quad muscle come out so cleanly. It's like you're eating an Olympic runner. It's like there's not a bit of fat on it and you can like see the sinewy ligaments. And it's like, no wonder this fucker could jump. Like, yeah, absolutely. And the other thing is that have you ever, have you ever actually hunted them where you're up with this long

air pole and canoe and you're just, I am far too lazy and too. I am far too lazy and too. too old for any of that. Isn't that called gigging? It's frogging. Frogging, yeah. And I just, I did accidentally, I did accidentally kill an entire lake full of frogs once. What? How'd you do that?

Who hasn't? I probably shouldn't tell this story, but I won't tell anyone. I'll simply say C4. And. So you spooked him to death. I know. They floated to the top after a, We did that little experiment.

Every week? Never do that again. Never did that. Was that the experiment? You throw the C4 in the lake and all the frogs die and you're like, they hated it. I did not go it personally and I did not consent, but I was happy to watch. And it did it. Boom.

You know, bubble boom, you know. And then all of a sudden, nothing but frogs floating to the. And I'm like, oh, I was only like 14. So give me. Statute of limitations. And a minor at the time. You're a victim. Well, they used to, they used to just north of here, my dad, they used to fish with dynamite back in 1970.

So these things used to happen, you know. Now we don't do them, or at least we don't admit it if we do, but those things used to happen. And a lot of farmers had dynamite on hand, you know, especially in a lead mining area like this. You go down on those lead mines and there's dynamites and they're sweating, you know. Oh, no. Listen, stuff like that. And it's been doing it for 100 years. And he goes touch it, it's going to explode.

So that just happens. And the moral of the story is, if you're going to explore mines, do it out west, where it's gold and silver and all that. Don't go into a lead mine. And, you know, or just stay out of the mine completely. Yeah, definitely. What is the best case scenario of having a lead mine? You get lead poisoning. You get a tremendous sum of lead.

and then you what? Well, not rich. That's not the word for having this much lead, but heavy. That's actually an environmental problem in southern Missouri, even though the lead's mostly done for now. I think one or two mines left. But the thing is you can't let that stuff get out in the environment, but we only knew that relatively recently.

So there was a whole over a, actually probably 250 years of lead mining there that everybody must have just been completely off the rocker nuts. Yeah. I've seen people attribute the serial killer craze of the 70s and those crime waves in New York to the leaded gasoline exposure and how we were getting more industrialized and urban settings were getting so smog-heavy. They also attributed why Rome had so many freaking crazy Roman emperors because the piping, the plumbing was lead.

and it was a whole civilization that was poisoned with lead. And that's why they, you know, ran a muck built out of gigantic empire was because they didn't really know any better. Well, for a long time, they must have been like, this water just tastes sweet, nice. You know what? They used to use lead as a lead oxide as a sugar substitute.

Yeah. I mean, that wasn't that long ago. Oh, it is sweet. It just wanted to eat paint chips. Yeah. Or cool people drink battery acid. Stop doing that. This is why you pass out regularly.

You're not the boss of me, okay? You can't stop. Battery acid. Like you're a Batman villain or something over there. I've also heard that some of the royalty then, like in Rome and even subsequent empires, they all used pewter, like dinnerware. and I guess there's a tremendous amount of lead in pewter, and when they would eat acidic foods on it,

it would leach into it, and suddenly you're getting like crazy high doses per meal of lead. That's true, right? Yeah, they also, it also happened with copper, too, because they didn't know that you really need to tin, you know, put a tin coating in copper to use it for cooking. They didn't know that. So they would use copper pots,

and eventually that gets toxic. And, you know, there's a reason that, that people in the world only lived to about 30 back then, you know. It was just so many environmental factors and even worse, no antibiotics, you know. We're not that much smarter, though. Like, my mom was scraping those Teflon pans into our food for a decade before we found out that stuff was bad for you. You know what? Why?

Because, I mean, for God's sakes, it's a synthetic chemical and you're scraping into the food. I mean, it just, it is. It isn't seasoning for God's sakes. I feel like my pepper grinder has plastic on the inside. So every time I grind pepper, I'm grinding plastic into my food. I have to order new pepper grinder. You need a ceramic grinder. You know what?

Obviously. You cannot replace fresh-grown black pepper. I know. Can't replace it. You've got to live with it. No, I'm blending it like a maniac. Yeah, and I like those blends where it's not just black pepper, but it's also the green and red.

You know, I don't know if you see different different varieties of peppercorn. But, but man, I, I love black pepper, but it has to be very freshly ground, you know. And I just, I just got these grinders and everything that I use and do it right then and there. Otherwise, you don't taste it. Yeah. Yeah. And at some point, like, you do have to calm down with the plastic fear, which is a position Kyle's had for a long time. And he is, you know, you don't want to be doing stupid shit unnecessarily.

and something, Kyle, this was a few years ago. I saw that study they put forth where it's like, do you know, the average person eats like a credit card every six months worth of plastic? And then you may have even linked this to me, Kyle, when they pulled that study back and they were like, actually turns out the gloves they were using in those studies were shedding particulate into the sample. And everything we claimed was based on that shedded particulate, not the actual plastic.

like passing the blood-brain barrier. It's a lost cause anyway. Plastic is everywhere, and it has been for, I mean, you're not going to undo it. And personally, I just, I mean, we implant plastics into people as prosthetics and things. So I'm not really, I'm not worried. And ultimately, it's a petroleum product. And petroleum is a product of life. It's all natural.

Executive. It literally is. It's all natural. All natural. 100% natural, but natural doesn't mean safe to eat. No, not necessarily, but, but you know. You kind of implied it. You're like, it's a byproduct of life.

It's all natural. It's his natural. It's not in the ground like that. Like a dart frog. Like I think it's a loss cause, though. Like there are little things you can do. Like, I'm going to buy a better pepper grinder. But at the same time, I just, you know, I just bought a hunk of steak from the grocery

store. And it came wrapped in. on styrofoam wrapped in plastic and there's no way to avoid that like there's just not now you just at some point you're like I'm only going to be here for 80 years and uh that's it but I maintain a different philosophy and then I'm like I don't want to make it any more than 80 years because being that old sucks and um and it's already getting rough at 50 right and it's like well you know I I don't want to live forever You know, a lot of futures will say, well, life extension, I want to live for hundreds of years. And I'm like, nah, I want to see what comes after, if anything, you know.

The thing is they don't tack on extra life to the middle or the beginning. They tack it on to the end. They just have terrible years. If I could have more 20s, I'd be down, but they're giving me some 90s. Heck that. Oh, yeah. Dude, if there was a science that gave you like, yep, you get to turn 28, seven times. It'd be like in.

that's wonderful that's perfect but it's like you get to be a hundred and five and you just look scared all the time in public that's the ultimate technology in my opinion is when we can upload our consciousness consciousnesses um because like we talked the other day about how it seems to me that the thing that really allowed us to advance technologically was when we started writing everything down and hanging on to it and not burning it all every few years because somebody got mad politically. Then we could climb off. We could step up in technology and stand on the shoulders of the prior generations and not just keep forgetting calculus every few years like what we would actually happen. If you if you could live several lifetime. Let's say live to a thousand,

right? Not infinite, not world ending sun expanding life, but just live to a thousand. Would that even be cool? I don't know. Depends where you stop. Do you live? Do you spend 800 of those years? at the age of the equivalent age of 100? Or is it like you're aging so slowly that at age 800, you're only 65? Let's make it you're stuck at 28, right? You just stuck there. Your wisdom, talents, they continue to grow. You're a concert pianist.

You can sing. I still won't learn to sing in a thousand years. But like, you know, like you're accumulating knowledge. You're smart. You've got this on lockdown. But everyone you've ever loved has died. You almost have to choose between your, favorite. They couldn't afford whatever's keeping

you alive? You've been blessed by cosmic rays or something, right? Every one of those people is going to end up killing themselves. But you can do it with technology. How many families and loved ones can upload our, if we can upload our consciousness into a little

avatar of some kind, like a little robot man that looks and feels like a man. But that's a different question. The one I asked is, is this even a blessing? Right? For everyone, if you live 100 years, all your favorite people, will have died 12 times over, something like that. Is that a happy life?

There's something else. There's another dimension to this. Your world that you are most comfortable in will be dead. In other words, you are stuck in a situation. Say you've lived 100 years longer than that. Look at the world of 100 years ago and ask yourself, if somebody from 1926 were transported to today, that would be just almost an alien world to them.

You know, a century is a long time. So you end up being a century from home. I wonder if people would keep up or if they'd fall beyond. Like, I could make an argument for both sides. I already effortlessly translate no cap into I'm not lying, right? So I'm willing to learn new English. On the other hand, right, right, right? On the other hand, a lot of my favorite songs are 20 years old.

And if a new song comes on the radio, it's not that down to adjust my tastes to it. I wonder how people would go if they just kept living and living. Yeah. And you can't like have the baked in assumption that when you're 800 years old, you're going to be, you know, taken space elevators and flying between planets for weekend vacations and these, you know, terraformed. And it's possible that when you're 480 years old, you're the one telling people sitting around a fire, like you won't believe what it used to be like. Like it could get so much worse instead of progressing the way we like to imagine it could. Like it might be awful. You can get scary with that stuff because say you're 28, right?

And you get restored back to being 28 despite being 140 years old. And then the government comes up and says, you're going to war, boy. okay let's change the situation you're 36 or whatever the number is that they can't tag you with that that's still young enough but yeah that that would be wait does this extended life come with invulnerability because war sounds like a great time if you're the only guy who doesn't get hurt no no that's too many powers way too many powers yeah yeah war would be fun if we could just respawn you know can you imagine dying at 611

because you fell off a ladder who's the tank man in China. What is tenement square? I can't get it right now. Tienomen Square, right? I'd be that guy. Hey, Mr. Tank. Why don't you slow your roll? Because I can't get hurt. Super brave. You're going to get fucked up at like 93 because and like the the like angel on your shoulder is going to keep telling you like what do we there's there's not an indestructible clause like we keep telling you you you're just a guy. And you're just walking like wow, I can't believe I can't be harmed.

My metabolism is so slow I can't eat. It just sucks. That would be horrible. Yeah, there's a lot of spooky stuff out there, prospectively. I wanted to know, because you're so into this and so knowledgeable, are there any conspiracy theories from the less, I guess, scientifically informed parts of the internet that really get your goat still, like flat earths or the dinosaurs aren't real or are you such a veteran that just rolls off your back it depends on how smart conspiracy theory is and how well constructed it is because a lot of them

are just very shallow you know and flat earth I mean how many people really believe that and why do they believe it and a lot of times it's biblical stuff but you know the bible itself says the circle of the earth so it even the book that they're deriving it from shoots it down. So those I don't take very serious. I just believe whatever the hell you want, you know. The ones I can't shoot down, I got no idea what the hell the UFO thing is.

I haven't the slightest idea. And I'm like, just show me what you guys come up with, right? But the thing is it's just persisting and persisting and persisting. And it's very, very complex, obviously. to the point that it's gotten the interest of the U.S. government. I highly doubt that's aliens, but at the same time, I don't know what the hell that is. You know, what are people seeing?

Well, they're seeing things in the sky that they can't explain. That's unidentified. Well, of course, you know. And that's the one, I would say that's the main one that perplexes me the most, is just because of how complex and persistent it is. and the fact that I firmly believe people see stuff they can't identify for sure

you know I've done it it's not a high bar right that's not a high bar I'm identified so that would be the one that perplexes me the most as far as the rest of them I find

that the real conspiracy is usually being done by the conspiracy theorist you know they're just coming up with an idea and putting it out there it got worse with the internet and that they're usually the conspiracies. They're the ones perpetrating it. Sure.

And then there's like for the flat earth one, my theory with that is the majority of those people are fucking around and like enjoying bothering people, trolling, pretending it. And then there's a minority in there that's like all in and think they're in good company. And they don't realize they're the ones at the end of the day being poked fun at by the people they believe to be compatriended. I think there's a lot of trolling, like you said. I think a not insignificant portion of them are this. Just people who refuse to believe any authority or story that they can't confirm

themselves. So the earth does look kind of flat, even if you're on a plane, it looks kind of flat. And they refuse to accept that it's not because they can't be convinced otherwise. It's the same people who deny that like vaccines work or deny a whole bunch of things. It's like that fluoride is good for your teeth. It's just, nope, I don't think so. Not until you can get me to understand that that's true. Everything's false by default.

Well, with, I see there are different levels of that, though, because with flat earth, go to Australia and look at the sky. You know? A different sky. Different sky. So there you go. Get on a plane and go to Australia. Unless you're wanting to say Australia doesn't exist, which that would be a fun one, a conspiracy theory. I don't believe in Australia, but that's all you need to do.

And you'll go down there and you'll see the Southern Cross and things that you will not see up here. And that tells you that that can only happen on a sphere, you know. So that's one thing. But as far as vaccination and stuff like that, well, it depends on what you're saying because we know they work, you know, obviously. But do they have side effects? Sure. you know um so it just depends on what that person is saying about it uh and that now that said um i'm a hundred percent vaccine person so but you know what point are you raising about them um yeah

well anything compared to the flat earth shit is going to seem feasible that's actually a good way to introduce one's conspiracy theory is to be like i'm not a flat earth guy i'm x y z because the Like how do seasons work on the flat earth? I don't understand how that could be. I do have almost when I when I read the lore that the flat earth guys have going, let's be real. It is fun. There's an ice wall that surrounds all of us.

And then there's a Gartha beyond it. And there's like other continents. It's like these guys are, these guys are having a fun time. They're having a good time. There's some really interesting ones because they were not, it wasn't possible to disprove them until recently. And one of them that's long dead was counter Earth, meaning that there was always an exact copy of Earth on the other side of the sun orbiting at exactly the same speed that you could never see because the sun's in the way. And people used to theorize that about that and actually made it in a very early Doctor Who was there was a, there was a,

a version of a counter-earth where I forget the cybermen or something, or fun. And that was a conspiracy theory back in the day. But now we've got probes out everywhere and there's nothing there, of course. But you couldn't disprove it because it would always be behind the sun. Yeah. And that would be a fun one too. You'd have like bizarreo earth where, you know, that's where Jerry and his, like,

bizarre Jerry and them live. That would be a good time. I would enjoy that. It's a shame that they can't get a good purchase on any of these really bizarre conspiracy theories almost because you read it and it's like these guys have almost a Silmarillion of lore about this. And then you read a little bit and it's like, and we know this because we do tests. And the tests are throw a ball to your friend. Notice how the ball didn't fly 60,000 miles backwards because we're rotating. proof in the pudding.

Well, that's not great. It has to be said there have been cases where a conspiracy theory that was excellent actually turned out to be right. Oh, they're right all the time. But in the space world, it seems like. Well, space world, it's funny. Yeah. But the actual, I mean, like, for example, there was a Masonic conspiracy theory in Italy in the 1970s about a, you know, a bunch of government ministers and things. like that belonged to Masonic Lodge and it ended up getting busted and it was true and people went to jail

and people died. There was a guy that was hung from the Greyfriars Bridge in London that was involved with it and it was an honest-to-god of Freemason conspiracy theory that was real that was prosecuted and it turned out it was over the Vatican Bank money. And so it was like, oh true you can't make that up you know yeah or like um was it actually Alex Jones that for years was like they're all hanging out in the woods dressed like owls fucking each other and then he snuck in and they're all talking in grove that is grove they actually were that was the one that Richard Nixon was like that shit's crazy gay I'm not like Alex Alex he's not dressed like an owl

eyebrows just like that. No, they really do. They have a giant concrete owl out there that they call Moloch. And it turned out, Alex Jones was... He's on to something.

He was right. He was right about anything, apparently. It's just a bunch of rich people that are, you know, have a little weird fetish of some sort that they go out and do that with. But, um, and they like rituals and all this stuff.

but it was real. It's there. But they were never really hiding that in the first place. There's the owl. Yeah, there's the owl. There's Molok, yeah. No one's cleaning it. No one's cleaning these days. See, this is what happens when a society falls apart. You stop cleaning your demonic idols.

They made that to be spooky. Come on. You let them go to pot. Yeah. They didn't think that looked good. They were like, this is sinister. This is what we're going for. our weird owl party.

I don't know if this is a real picture. That looks painted or something. I had a question. The topic's a little different. All right. We're going to Europa, right? A moon around Jupiter, I think. Uranus.

Where's your, whatever it is? What do you think the energy source for that spaceship is going to be? Is it solar? Is it nuclear? What would it be? Something else? So you're saying we're going from Earth to Jupiter, Europa. Okay.

And that would be, what would we power our spacecraft with? Nuclear. When you go out far enough, the sun's energy just gets to disperse, you know. So when you start getting to Jupiter and beyond, you have to put what's called an RTG, and it's a plutonium core that with a heat exchange or all this type of thing to produce energy with nuclear energy, basically, is what you would use. especially with Europa because if you want to melt into it,

nothing better than a piece of plutonium that's making its own heat, you know? Unfortunately, the problem with this answer is it makes Taylor right. I'm not happy with that. Correct. It also eliminates the Europa ocean with plutonium. But these are things that are, you know,

bandied about. But if you're going to go out that far, you're going to use nuclear. However, if you're Europa life, then you have geothermal energy to operate on. So your ocean is warm because of the radioactive decay and the core of that moon. So you've got your own self-contained energy source. And if you threw Europa out into interstellar space, that ocean wouldn't freeze because that nuclear, that radioactive decay is just going to keep going. And that means that rogue planets between the stars are habitable in some respect.

So you could have life that evolves without a star out there somewhere. They believe there are as many rogue planets as there are planets or something like that. They are everywhere. And we don't even know if there are any close ones. You know, there could be a rogue planet. I mean, like there could, to the zoo hypothesis, I suppose, or, maybe just a benevolent like forebear

hypothesis like you could have like an Arthur C. Clark Sentinel situation where there's just a stealth probe sitting out there somewhere around Jupiter and it's waiting for a techno signature from us to like fly over and be like hey

you did it. You made the thing we've been waiting on you did that. Ah so anti-gravity, perfect. You made anti-gravity so fast and we detected it and we came to here's the surprise box with all the technologies you've needed. I can give you a scenario that's terrifying because it's October, and I can give you a scenario where it would be really cool.

Okay. I'll start with the one. I'll start with the really cool one. So say you have a what we call a Von Neumann probe, which is a self-replicating probe that can make copies of itself and go all over the galaxy, and it's just sitting out there. Like a needle in a haystack, and it's just watching. And we get to some level of technology, as you said.

And then it says, hello. And, you know, we're like, oh, there's something there. And it's like, I have a gift for you. And it's like, I have recorded the entire natural history of your planet since this formation. Here's pictures of dinosaurs. And that's the gift the aliens give us. I would appreciate the hell out of that. That would be incredible.

Yeah, we are, they're basically. I don't know what percentage of this fossil record we had. have, but it's a minority. It's very tiny. But the thing is, what happens if aliens are documentary makers and they document life, you know, and its evolution wherever they find it. Maybe they're waiting on us to reach 10 billion population because they want a 10 billion audience for their documentary.

Yeah, they want to take it price to the box office. But the thing is, wouldn't that be the most greatest gift an alien civilization could ever give you is the entire historical record of your planet that you're missing, you know? Yeah, that would be incredible. Yeah, that would be. The terrifying one, the terrifying one is when the von Neumann probe sees that you've developed AI, which could conceivably be, you know, artificial generalized intelligence, could be a threat to the entire galaxy and it just goes active and says, nope, and it EMPs

your planet back into the Stone Age. Mm-hmm. I wouldn't like that. No. I also wouldn't like, like, if we were going to be given dino information, I would want to know that we were one of the planets that they really kept an eye on. Like, like, I want to be, I want to be the UGA of planets

to these, to these, I want to be in the SEC. Imagine if we're fucking Wake Forest. My God. And they're like barely popping in. Like they don't even, they're not even paying that much attention. These stupid apes, they don't know what they're up to. Maybe the aliens thought dinosaurs were cool as fuck, too, like everybody else. And they're like, yeah, we're here to study your dinosaurs. Oh, yeah, our ratings dropped off precipitously.

As soon as the dinosaurs went away and now everyone's bored by the human arc. Yeah, they're bored by the humans now and they're just like, oh, man, frickin asteroid, you know. But I think I always, I always like in sci-fi. They would have deflected the asteroids of the dinosaurs would end up being the Yeah, they would have kept them around. I always like in sci-fi where there are ancestors of dinosaurs that somehow left Earth. And now they're as in their bipedal sort of humanoids. Star Trek did it.

Lots of sci-fis have done it. I love that every time I see it. The thing is just that the messy thing about that is that you can't actually rule that out, meaning that Earth's fossil record is so incomplete. and this is called the the Silurian hypothesis by Dr. Adam Frank, and I think Jason Wright also came up with a variation of it, that the fossil record is so incomplete, we can't tell that there wasn't a civilization here before.

We've got all our gold, though. Well, we also have all our oil. But the thing is, is all that changes because of subduction and movement. So what would have been available 500 million years ago, is down in the mantle now. So any depletion would be down there where we can't see it. And we'd have all new stuff.

So there's just no way to rule this out. But I suspect that if we go out in space and we don't find, you know, a dinosaur, a Voyager 2 or something like that. Exactly. Probably a good chance it didn't happen. On the moon, there might be a big black tablet and on it is writ here. dinosaur walked, not for Tyrannosaurus kind, but for all dinosaur kind.

Yeah, some giant some giant free-toed booted footprints up there. Something stupid, like it's just a piece of rebar concrete with dinosaur footprint on it. And we're basically stuck, we're like, wait a minute, we're humans, and we've been technological since the Industrial Revolution more or less.

And, well, before that, but anyway, and we can deflect an asteroid now. But you people, you dinosaur people couldn't, you know, so they wouldn't, they couldn't have gotten that far. Maybe they deflected that. Maybe they deflected the asteroid into the earth to take out their dino enemies. If they were a suicidal cult species, they might do something like that. And in which case, if you're stuck in a member of. civilization like that, get the whiskey, get the rocking chair, and enjoy the view when they, when they crash that asteroid in it, because that's all you've got left.

How would we divert an asteroid? Do you think mankind can do this currently? We've already done it experimentally. There was NASA. Dart? Yeah, Dart. And actually, they've done it twice. But all you do is you hit it with an impactor. As long as you know it's coming and you've got plenty of time, which we've got the telescopes for that now, especially with a Vera Rubin observatory coming on online. As long as you've got plenty of time, all you need to do is just nudge it. A little bit. And that's enough for it to miss the planet.

And so we're probably, at least within the next 10 years, I would say. Give us 10 more years. But in 10 years, we're asteroid proof. The NASA DART experiment, they hit the object and it moved way more than they thought it was going to move. Yeah, it was better than what they thought, which has been happening to NASA a lot lately. I don't know if you've got to notice, but NASA's like, yeah, we're expecting, oh, wait, that's more than what we got.

And a really fine example of that was the James Webb Telescope. It's freaking better than it was designed to be, you know. How so? Just sees further, more detailed. More resolution. Yeah, it's, it was that NASA said, we need these specs, manufacturers, you know, and manufacturers like, well, hold our beer and gave them better than what they asked for. And as a result, the telescope is exceeding expectations.

And it's good. And it's, is it probable they just set expectations low? That it actually is what we were. It might do that. But publicly, they're like, It might do it. But I think there's a certain pride for the contractors on such a flagship thing. to outdo themselves, you know?

And Webb was one of those examples. And now we've got another one going up to Nancy Grace Roman Telescope that I think is probably going to do that too, because the- The Nancy Grace Telescope? Different Nancy Grace. It's surely about the attorney who hates marijuana smokers. Not that.

Makes them murderous. But this telescope started out life as a spy satellite. Then the NSA had these two telescopes that had mirrors the size of the Hubble Space Telescope. It's huge. And a four meter mirrors. And they're like...

Exactly the same. But ground better than Hubble was. But anyway, they had these two and they're like, we're not going to launch these. So let's give them to NASA. Maybe they can make a telescope out of this. And they did. and that, you know, that's, that's going to come online soon. I think it's just testing now. I like NASA setting themselves low and then overachieving.

And I think the way this happened is that we as a population, Woody and I included, we've henpecked them and nagged them so long about their moon promises. Are you taking credit for NASA right now? We're saying that the reason that they're overperforming now is because Kyle or because Woody and I were like, they said, we're not going. This is four years ago. They said we're not going to the back to the moon any sooner than 2020. They said we will go back and our timeline is no sooner than 2025. And that is, coincidentally, my timeline for going to the moon too. Mine as well. No sooner than 2026.

I assure you, I will not get there sooner than that. So now they're over a treatment. Yeah, I think you're going to get your moon landing though. Artemis is too far along to stop. I got to see more human feet on the moon. They got to send more people there. You're going to get that before 2030. I think that's going to happen. I hope so. I saw a YouTube video. I don't remember who made it.

But their central premise was that there's a particular spot on the moon that is really valuable real estate. And now there is a new space race between America and primarily China to be the first person to sort of get their lander there, start the base, because this is the place you want it to be. I think it might have water there, warmth or something. Well, that's what drives it. you see money, then humans go. You see a profit potential.

It'll happen. And we're starting. We're just starting to see that not only with the moon, but the asteroids. Because, I mean, asteroids are rich and the most valuable metals. You know, platinum, whatever you want, gold. Well, platinum's really the one. Because the, you know, the prices of some of this stuff is licking up there with viability. to go get it from an asteroid.

So I think you're going to see all kinds of private, but also NASA and other governments in the world, initiatives that are going to make a pretty cool rest of the century as far as space exploration goes. And it looks a whole lot better than this shit looked in 1995. It looked like it was almost dead back then. And now it looks like, okay, we got stuff, you know. And when you start having that profit potential,

that's when things will really get. get done. Yeah, there was all these cool space stuff between like the 60s and the 80s. And then we went terrestrial, started working on cell phones and internet. And it was, I mean, it was demoralizing because it seemed like taking steps backwards, you know, just like we had this gigantic Saturn 5 moon rocket. What do we do? We cancel it. We moved to a space shuttle. I can't even leave low Earth orbit, you know, and we do that for years, and it's way more dangerous than the Moon Rocket ever was, you know. I mean, we lost two manned shuttles, and the Moon Rocket, we lost a capsule, you know, Apollo 1, and I killed three people, but that wasn't a launch. That was a test, you know, and they did something

rather silly and filled it with pure oxygen instead of, you know, and they didn't have a hatch that they could open. I mean, who the hell builds any kind of anything with a hatch you can't open? I would have spoke up in the meeting. I'd have been like, guys. Come on. It's getting together. The Russians had the same thing in some of their capsules. There's the famous story of they couldn't get the capsule closed and they all suffocated.

And then like it was a valve. It was a valve that opened. And as I recall, as I recall the, no, they died. They just died because they lost. It was the next cosmonaut that went up. There was another one that had a ballistic reentry, which is you can do, but you don't want to in a capsule. And he was losing it.

And I don't remember the exact circumstances. All I remember is he was motherfucking everybody on the way down. They couldn't, you know, in Russia. And they couldn't release the audio because he was just going off on, you know, Fuck Gorbachev, Fucked off city Was that Yuri Gagarin or is he way

Burey Gargarin, I think died in a plane crash. Oh, I thought he was the one who got all crisped up that they stood around that table. I see that was the one that was giving him the finger, but I don't remember his name offhand. But that was a rather graphic picture. It was, and he had every right to be upset.

He was very upset. But then there was the other ones, but they just simply ran out of air and it was oxygen deprivation. And it's sort of a shame because they almost made it, you know. I mean, they almost made it to where they would have been survivable. And then with the U.S., you know, our biggest accidents, as far as launches go, were the shuttle. You know, the space shuttle was dangerous. And that Challenger, 1986, you know, those people survived that.

And we're stuck in the nose, you know, the front of that thing, the pressure vessel. Really? All the way down. Oh, they were probably unconscious from the G forces. You would hope. Oh, were they screaming? No, there's evidence that the pilot, Dick Scobie, was actively trying to hit switches and do whatever in the hell he could. That guy was so hard.

Corey could probably take 15 Gs and still operate the controls anyway. Yeah, you know, Vietnam, you know, pilot and all that stuff. But there was evidence in the report that he was trying to fly that thing all the way down and do what he did. So that happened the year I was born. But I do know that famously, that's the one that had the school teacher on board. And it was a like all the TV networks were running commercials. They're like, tonight at nine, school teacher in space. And they cut to a little B-roll of her teaching her like, they look like third, fourth grade classroom.

I mean, she's like this really nice lady. And like, tonight, I think her name, Sally or something, is going to space and she's going to give a lesson from orbit. So tune in tonight, kids. And then she exploded, of course. And, well, it sounds like died on impact on the way down. There was another idea for who should go up, though, Big Bird and his puppeteer from Sesame Street.

Yeah, I remember that. And, well, I was actually in grade school when it happened, and I watched it. It was, we, you know, they were wheeled the television in. Oh, no. Watch the rocket launch. And, um, and I specifically, we saw it. And I, there were two things that happened.

The first thing is the teacher came over and turned the TV off. She's like, that's not supposed to happen. And I heard cussing, you know, in a grade school, in a Catholic grade, the nuns were like, what the fuck just had? But no, I definitely remember it. And that's something that burns into your brain. You know, that's one of those, you know, John F. Kennedy assassination moments that I was in grade school, you know,

probably 11 years old, 12 maybe. I'm older than you. Huh? I think I'm older than you. I think it was in like eighth grade, ninth grade, something like that. Well, you look younger than me. at least. Did you watch it? Was it or not a big thing in the snow day. I wasn't home. We were like outside playing being kids and like got back in the house and then like every TV was on the news and it

was a big somber mood. Was it in your universe prior to the explosion though? Like was it something in school that's spoken about like the teachers going up this and that? It just dominated like current events like the Taylor Swift grand tour did or something like you know everyone just kind of knew it was going on and that was coming up soon. Yeah. And, and then it was like, wait, what? That's how it ended? She blew up. And it was just replay. Replay after replay after replay.

I could almost draw like how the boosters separated and it kaboom and stuff. Oh, yeah, me too. That was everywhere. And I mean, obviously that was traumatic for, you know, nationally traumatic. Because, you know, obviously we don't want to lose astronauts, but also the teacher, you know, and things like that. Were there other lay job people, like teachers? Were she the only person like with a normal job on there and everyone else was astronauts?

Yeah, pretty much the rest of them were specialists. But the thing is, is that anyone, so the teacher you train to also be a specialist. So you have multiple functions. You know, so you're going to run experiments and things like that in addition to be, you know, teaching from space. What did she teach? I think you have any relevant skills. Elementary school. It'd be so funny if it was like English.

Right. Like if she was like teaching like semicolons from space. You'd have to check. You'd have to check, but I'll bet it was like science or something, you know, something that would make sense. But I don't actually recall. What I do recall in you, what do you might remember this? Mm-hmm. Do you remember when they would take tomato seeds up on the space shuttle, bring the seeds back and distribute them to schools to grow, and there was space tomatoes?

Do you remember that? No, but that's cool. No, I didn't get any space tomatoes. We did. That's cool. We just had those. Social studies. History, law, and American history.

They couldn't find a better teacher, like a biology teacher. Importantly, you talked to physics as a professor at University of California, Sandy. Diego. And she was a oh, excuse me, wrong person. Shouldn't have been it.

You had a Nancy Grace that's up right there. Grace that. I was wrong. That could be the wrong Sally. That is funny. That's called like the Nancy Grace fucking telescope. Every time I hear it, I picture

that blonde, bobbed Karen screaming at people about, you, we've got to do something about these immigrants people. Brett Hart died because of CTE. WWE is a demonic influence on our culture. What are we talking about?

That's what she had a thing about that, Nancy Grace, yeah. Oh, Nancy Graham. Her name is Sharon, not Sally, just FYI. Do you think we should be sending our techno signature out as broadly and deeply into the universe as we can? Oh, Christ, no. No.

Yeah, I think that quiet is the key. But the fact is we are quiet because unless you've got a telescope the size of the city of New York out at four, six, eight light years, you're still not going to see us. And we are getting quieter and quieter because we need less powerful radio to get our shit done. You know, I mean, what signals come off your cell phone? But just enough for the tower to get, you know. So the most powerful signals we're sending. out is radar now the CBO is gone. Radar. Yeah. What about the satellites?

The most powerful radar is in the past. That was World War II. So we're not visible. Don't we send satellites out and just have them not come back? Transmitting? We do, but the transmissions are extraordinary. Super weak. Because our receivers are really, really, really sensitive. You know, I mean, look at these things. Look at a radio telescope. It's a dish the size of, you know, half a town, you know, so we can pick things up really well,

which means we don't have to be very powerful in our transmissions. Now, radar you do, and when there's been cases like, for example, the Eroscebo telescope before it collapsed, was able to send out very, very powerful radar and map asteroids with it. And that you would see, the problem is you'd only see it once. it'd be a waft signal. So the alien, like, what the hell was that? I'd never see it again. And now the telescope is collapsed and demolished.

It's done. Any conspiracy theories about that? What? I'm sorry. I have a sense of curiosity that would overcome my fear of risk that makes me just want to put out a sign and say, anyone there? Got another problem, though.

Mm-hmm. How far are they? because it's going to take that signal to get there hundreds of years and then hundreds of years for them to respond. You don't plant a tree for yourself. You plant it for the future generations. Well, what happens if you send out a signal? And they did that at Erecebo.

Remember the Erecebo message? And half the galaxy would have seen that because of the way that did it. And what happens to the message you get back is, shut up, we're trying to do radio astronomy out here. And it depends on the message we send out. Like we wouldn't want to be too. What if we send out like, come at me,

pussy? Like just, you wouldn't want to do that. Maybe like a little, a little ditty by Beethoven or something would be more. Consider shutting up if you speak to me more kindly. Yeah. See how goes.

Anything that had the capacity to respond and show up, it's going to kick our ass. Or the aliens. Or the aliens. Or the aliens. trying to be clingy and kind of a drag to talk to, and we never get rid of them. Oh, we get left on, we get left on red from aliens. So that's the, that's the most fascinating kind of like aliens showing up scenario to me is where

it's like District 9 or it's like Alien Nation, where you have this big mothership with all of this technology and stuff. But the survivors, the people inside are like the slave race, the, the they don't know how it works any more than we do, more or less. They're not the creators of technology. They're a third race of aliens that were like the slave race. And one way or another, they've either overthrown their masters. And now the ship has just basically skidded up to Earth. Maybe the people who owned the ship originally had bad plans for us, but they're all gone now.

And now you've got all these slave people and technology. A bunch of aliens that forgot how their technology works because it takes care of it. itself. That's far too. That's the best case scenario. And we're just like all of a sudden we've just ended up with, you know, a bunch of aliens are like, you know, like looking at a VCR and blessing it, you know, because they, because we killed that. It could be a repeat of when, when, uh, white people came to North America and they were buying Manhattan for like a big chest full of beads, you know, like, or, or, or, or, or, or, uh, white people came to North America. And they were buying Manhattan for like a, in westerns when you see them like bargaining with the Indians and getting them drunk so that they can

get more pelts for for bullets or whatever they're trading. Yeah, but you got to look at the perspectives, because like with the peltz, you know, and things like that, to the native people, that was just women's underwear. And you got all these Frenchmen over here, you know, wanting women's underwear and willing to pay good money for it, you know, with useful things like an act or a musket. And they're like, yeah, we're, we're making out like bandits here, because their perspective was different. Of course. Yeah. I like that and the idea of a race that doesn't understand warfare at all or aggression.

Because I don't know how we compare to other intelligent species in the entire known universe. But I bet we're among the more warlike, the more nasty, the more sneaky, the more sneaky, the more sneaky, the more sneaky. Because we're just, we're so like that. That's what we are. But we only have our own selves as points of comparison. I know. That's my point. We don't have anyone that's compared.

There may be Klingons and Romulans who are sneakier and more warlike than us. But I'm just saying, I think we're probably among the more warlike, because it's hard to go harder than us. Our own little country here has been at war our entire lives. Yeah, but there are differences in just how far humans will go as far as violence and evil. And sometimes they will not just dial it up to 10, you know, Adolf Hitler type things. And sometimes they won't. They'll dial it up to two. Maybe the aliens are the same way and that they're not monolithic and that sometimes

they can be way worse than we are. Yeah. Or they could be like you, you apes are going to go extinct. You're going to eat yourselves. You know, and you're stupid. We're moving on, you know. You just don't know. We only have a sampling of one, but our sampling of one, human civilization,

a whole lot of variation there because I'm personally a peace, Nick. You know, I don't, I want no more war, you know. But you talk to the neighbor or somebody like that, they're like, oh, it's good war now, you know, so. What if like there's a, like worst case scenario as we get some sort of Genghis Khan planet that finds us and he shows up with a vengeance.

We don't want that. Like, did, have you read much about what he did to like, inspire other towns to give up. He'd like go into a town, behead all the men, all the women, all the children. And in one town, he, I don't believe he had enough skulls to finish his pyramid. And so he killed all the cats too. And finished his skull pyramid. And then he would like show that to like emissaries and be like, you like my fucking pyramid.

And they're like, you know, I came here to negotiate. But I've decided whatever you need, my friend, whatever you need. You show, oh, you need grain. Pop on over. We're flush with grain. Take it as much as you please, master. Like, we don't want that guy showing up from, you know. I don't know.

I could use a few more thousand skulls. No, sir, that's complete. You don't want to touch that. That's a masterpiece you've got there. It's beautiful. No, I'm holding my nose out of respect. Not because it stays. The Mongols would give a choice, basically.

And I know way more about this than, and I don't want to explain why it has to do with a former. career but um what they would do was they would show up at a city and they would say give up and you live fight us and you die and then the mongols you know the cities that would would refuse they would march the entire population out onto the to the plane to the plane and put them to the sword they would just kill everybody there was one city and it was and it's we don't even know where it was somewhere in Afghanistan. It was called Kersawan.

And this particular city was the most unlucky thing you can ever imagine because they were trying, they were going to defend the city. And they were trying to close the gate. And a war elephant had a heart attack and dropped dead and blocked the gate. They couldn't get it closed. And the Mongols just went in there. And it got to the point where they were actually with minted. their civic coins, you know, their city coins for commerce. They were dating them by the month

because they were just counting it down. And so instead of saying like 1984 on it was saying September, you know, and things like that. And the thing is the Mongols left all those coins, the copper ones, because there wasn't anything precious in there. They just abandoned them. And so they found thousands and thousands of these things in Afghanistan. And then they just took everything else and it was a smoking ruin and there was about 25, 30 years later, and this would have been 1221 AD. A Chinese traveler comes through that was, you know, chronicling it and said it was still just a ruin that was little left, you know.

Yeah, he went hard. He also reproduced incredibly fair. He also reproduced a lot. He certainly fathered many children. to say the least. Maybe that's what Taylor meant when he said he went hard. Some people said some people have even made the claim. It wasn't even consensual sometimes.

Well, he was the Genghis Khan. He was Genghis Khan. He needed to be inspiring more loyalty along the way with more like trinket handouts because as soon as he died, that whole empire was like, you know, on its last lays already. The Mongols had the, they had the habit of splitting their empire up between the kids. kids, right? And that's how it went and we split into multiple, multiple, uh, dynasties all across the former empire. And then it just ran out. He seemed super fair to me. Like his deal was like, he really did. He would, first of all, you could, any religion you

wanted. He didn't care. His wife, I think was Christian or something like that. He didn't care. The historian Christian and he didn't care. And if that city gave up and just accepted it, you didn't even know the Mongols were there. There was a governor and everything else just continued on as normal. Yeah. And that was that. Yeah, you'd have to maybe give men to the army. Yeah, maybe.

But for the most part, most people didn't even notice the difference. It wasn't like you were going to be now under the yoke of Genghis Khan. He was going to squeeze you for everything you had. You were just now part of the empire. And if you didn't want to be, he was going to kill you and defeat you. And whenever he would, there was an instance where someone disrespected one of his emissaries or messengers. And then he sent like another emissary or messenger. I think he like shaved their beards or like maybe tore their beards out.

His name was that again, former career guys, I used to work in the Kwasi field of archaeology. His name was Aouddin Muhammad Qwarazam Shah. And in 1220, he gets these emissaries. And it's like, who the, who are the fuck are these people? You know, so he shaved their heads and all that embarrasses them and sends them back. And then he sends more, does the same thing more or less. And then all of a sudden the horde appears over the horizon. And within one year, the Quarism Shah had two soldiers left out on an island in the Caspian Sea.

And they didn't even have a burial shroud for him. One year. He went from ruling vast areas of Central Asia, miscalculating what he was seeing with his emissaries. to being completely destitute. Damn. Think of how horrible that would be to be the round two emissary guy where like you already know what's coming

because everybody came back. Their faces are all red and irritated. You have to go be like, hey, that deal you didn't like. Here's the same one. That was the worst one. Who could forget Vlad the Impaler where Turkey, you know,

the Ottoman Turks with Senate ambassador and they'd get the ambassador back with a shoe nailed to his head. And he was like, ow! I do not know how he survived the shoe being nailed to the hay. I believe if my, and you can correct me, you know so much more about this. I believe Vlad the impaler was as funny as it sounds impaling in defense to be like Ottomans. Stay out of here. This is what happens if you come to my area.

He was trying to be. as terrifying as possible. So whenever the Ottoman emissary would come, he would put all these captured soldiers on the spikes, i.e. the impaler prince is what the Ottomans called him. And he would be sitting there eating lunch amid all of these dying corpses on these on these pikes. And he's like, what do you want, Turkish ambassador?

And it would all scare the ever-living. He used to drink like wine and claim that it was blood. and all kinds of things. He's sopping his bread and the wine, pretending like he's sopping it in the blood of the screaming men around him. While he meets the negotiator. It was all the FBI.

They were just trying to be as scary as possible so he doesn't get invaded. And that's what, you know. And the Ottomans were like, we want all of your festive rugs. We'll never go home. They kind of left him alone because what his downfall was the king of Hungary. He came in and I think his name was Matthias the crow and arrested him and put him in prison for like 10 years.

And that was his downfall was Hungary, not the not the Ottomans. He had his eye off the ball for too long. He was too obsessed with the Ottomans and he was too much of a movie sitting there with the blood and the bread and the, you know. I bet that was scary to walk into. You're some Turkish guy. There were supposedly hundreds and hundreds of them. you know just all writhing around dying impaled and there he is sitting at his table it can take hours yeah well yeah and it's like and it was probably worse than you can imagine

you know you usually see these depictions of people sitting there like this now they're probably doing it up the butt you know and things like oh they do yeah well that's path of least resistance like yeah it's going in your butt yeah so it was probably just this awful but it was designed to be that for a little while it was kind of fun and then wait a minute too much yeah and it was just like well that one guy was like oh ooh

wait a minute oh geez he's hard he's waiting for his turn he's hard as a rock all the ottomans he's doing or it's just a bunch of Mr. slaves just

oh geez What a gruesome. I'm glad we don't. Yeah, the world is much better now. It is much better than it used to be. It's it's it's calm down a bit. Not entirely, but somewhat. Well, I mean, we may or may not be getting a live streamed execution this, this holiday season.

I shot that down. Trump said he drums not for it anymore. Dang. I mean. is that really necessary? No, it's not. I was going to watch, but I don't need to see. And then there's it.

I think that's kind of my standpoint on that. I don't know if anyone needs to see other than the direct victims. I sort of, it's a morbid thing. And we all look at pictures, you know, things like that. Morbid curiosity and all that. But I don't need to see that. And I kind of consider, even if it's the biggest jerk in the world, you know, murder like that, It I still you know death is a very personal thing and I don't think that it should be televised if it all possible

I think the optics are bad I didn't realize he was in his 50s head full of gray hair wheelchair bound like I didn't yeah how about the tiger attack yesterday um it's like we didn't need to see that you know All right. Well, if the tiger had attacked that man, like, in his living room, I'd have been like, hey, why are we, why are we looking at this? I have no idea why you would go into a tiger enclosure. You've just chosen one of the worst animals on Earth to go and, you know, even talk to, you know, because it's going to be what it is. It is a tiger. That's actually an interesting segue into, like, one of my favorite little thought experiments. and it comes from the old children's series of novels, the animorphs. And I'm not sure if you're familiar with that, but basically there's warring alien races, and the war is expanded to Earth, but the greater populace has no idea.

But this group of children knows, and they are given the power by the benevolent alien race to transform themselves into any animal that they physically touch. So if you touch a tiger, now forevermore, you have the ability to transform into a tiger. it's not a magical wand-waving transformation. It's more like turning into a werewolf. And if you stay too long in tiger form, you can't go back to human form. But using these forms,

maybe you're a fly and you do a bit of espionage and see what the aliens are talking about. But occasionally you have to do battle with the aliens who can also turn into animals. But they have access to a whole other group of animals because they've conquered planets. And so a big part of the show is often like, we got to break in the zoo tonight and get a tiger.

Like we need something tough to like go. They've got a turanosaurus wrecks or something like that. We need polar bears and tigers. And so like I always wonder like how do our tough animals rank up against the tough animals of the of the galaxy? Like it's one thing to say that we're probably the only people in the galaxy on doing podcast tonight. Like there's probably not an alien somewhere having the same conversation.

I put my polar bear up against your mold. spores any day. You know, ultimately, though, Earth life gives you a clue because there used to be far worse. So Tyrannosaurus Rex is going to kick living crap out of anything alive today. African bull elephant, I think it's an even fight.

Well, the bull elephant, the thing is, is there are some animals that know they are bigger than us, and the bull elephant does. It's like, I'm bigger than you are, you know, come at me, you know. But the thing is it's not going to eat you.

A polar bear will. You are food and it's bigger than you. You know, I don't know if you guys ever saw the documentary Grizzly man. Yep. I actually interviewed Hertzhog once. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, that was definitely a high point for my Event Horizon interviews. But the thing is, is that the man had so misjudged what those bears are

and didn't stop to ask himself and say, that is a grizzly. bear. It will be a grizzly bear. And if it gets hungry, your food. And he ended up being food along and he took his girlfriend with him, unfortunately. And the reality is that those animals need to be those animals. That's what they are. That's what they evolved as. That's how they do it. I don't even think we should be putting tigers in cages like this. I think they don't either wandering in their natural habitat being left alone and a see one get the fuck away from it and um but you know we we live in a know you know so one of the interesting things about the grizzly man thing um the camera was on and recording at least audio when he was eaten alive and supposedly the investigators have heard that recording and i i think

that Werner Herzog has also heard that i know i know for a fact that he did and what he did and how he how he dealt with it was he did not release it did not play it he just played his reaction while he listened to it. He said it should be destroyed. And he said it should be destroyed, which it hasn't been, by the way. But the fact is he did that, he depicted

that the only tasteful way you can. You know? Yeah. And it just needs to die there because I don't want to hear a guy getting eaten by a fucking bear. No, no. A second ago, you said the T-Rex was the toughest

animal to have grown the earth. We don't have anything that we know of. What about the water? I love that the blue whale is the biggest living animal to have ever been on earth ever, and we get to see them right now and, you know, watch them on TV. Yeah. Where they're animals in the best. They're not mean. They're not particularly mean. Sure. They're just indifferent. I can feel like a lie to me, you know. It opens the door to the idea that we might be in the best water period. well the water can be extremely violent too remember the carcarodon megalodon gigantic sharks for me it's a broken record yeah so i mean the ocean can be just as violent but

it's it's a water environment so it's different but at the same time since we got so much water on this planet which is this is an ocean planet more than it is a land planet well how cool is that because that tells you all about aquatic environments and what can happen there. And it turns out that it's even more varied than what happens on land, you know. I wonder how the current Great White stack up against the big scary things. The me. The big scary thing in our ocean, though. Like, I think that I think we have a dominant thing right now.

I think it's, I think it's killer whales because they hunt in a wolf pack. Okay. I think they're so intelligent. They work so well as a team that even a megalon would probably have an issue from a pack of them. And they're scary, intelligent, and they can plan and work together to get, you know, knock a seal off of a, you know, a piece of ice or something like that. So cool. Very, very, very smart. But what's really crazy about the killer whale is, have ever seen them mimic where they'll, like, mimic an, you know, like the sound of an outboard motor? Yep. And it's, and they're, you know,

mimicking that. And it's like, that animal is having, number one, is having fun. Yep. And number two, it knows exactly what the hell it's doing, you know. And I, you know, I have a soft spot for really intelligent animals. I don't know if you guys do any of this. Sure. There are certain things that I will not eat just because I think it's too smart. And in my case, the big one at the top of the list is octopus, you know. They're too freaking smart.

They're too smart. And number two, I did really like octopus when I did eat at once. Well, then that's a very convenient moral stance. isn't it? Well, I mean, you're eating something with a suction cups on a tentacle. I don't, you know. The fact that the killer whales have never

attacked a human outside of that one individual that was basically being tortured at SeaWorld, and there's been so many opportunities. There's plenty of times when people are in the water with them. They don't mess with us because... There's actually more case. There's actually more examples of

they helped. Of course. There is when they attacked. And I think what it is, the cetaceans, I think that they detect our intelligence, and they think the same thing we do. Like, yeah, you're really smart. Let's help you out here.

Do you think it's out of fear at all where they can identify some sort of threat humans might be to them? Who is to say, you know, until we figure out their communications, all of the whales, not just the killer whales, the orcas. until we figure out their communications, which AI may be able to do, and won't that be a cool day when we can tell what they're saying?

Until we can figure that out, we don't know what they think of us, you know? I mean, it's probably really sad. It's probably really, they probably love us, and they're like, but this thing, there's, there's these big iron things out here, and there's always, like, explosions in the water, and it really hurts.

And I'm so scared and stressed now that my, I lost, I had a miscarriage, actually, because of this, don't know what it was, but it might just be banter. Click noise. Might just be a little locker room talk, a little banter. Or they're just completely pissy about it. And the first thing we decode from the whales is they're like whale oil.

Really? It's like, come on. I don't even think we use you guys for that. Don't be mad. We're grabbing those other whales. We were grabbing the sperm whales for that sometimes. And you should thank us for that because those are the only things. in the entire ocean that occasionally

fuck you up. Occasionally. Like that... I do also like the idea that the UFO-UAP phenomenon is basically the abyss but real that at the bottom of the Marianas trench, there's a

technological civilization that lives down there at high pressure. You know what though? The problem with it is that you know, I know that's going around, of course. We all know. We all hear it. But the reality is that if there is something mining the ocean floor for materials that is going to stick out like a sore thumb.

For example, in areas of the ocean, the manganese nodules that sit on the ground, you know, the ocean floor, you're going to see a whole bunch of them missing, you know. And I'm a little bit skeptical that that would be, you know, where they're based. Maybe you're not from here, though, but they're from somewhere that's like the bottom of our ocean. Of course, that could happen. But maybe they're more comfortable there. Or they have some technological reason to be in an ocean as opposed to, you know, I mean, what good is a submarine out of land, you know, and those things would need hands or tentacles to get anything done.

Because if I could magically put Tesla's brain in all his knowledge and every single orca on Earth, Those fuckers aren't building anything. Like, they get, they got flippers and math. Like, they can't do it. Yeah, theological blocks. Building technology and how do you smelt in the, you know, metal underneath the ocean and all these things? But that's scary because that means that there could be

fully 100% intelligent civilizations on our level or exceeding us that are aquatic and they're freaking stuck there. Why do they need? That's good for us. Maybe, I mean, couldn't they, I know that one of the. the thoughts is that one of the ways our brains began to grow was the access to meat and the better nutrition from cooked foods.

But maybe they could get enough nutrition to get smart enough to create. I mean, we create vacuums here and like different kinds of atmospheres here for experiments all the time when we need to, you know, like maybe they could create a little bubble of air to be smelting in sort of a sandy cheeks situation at the bottom of the state. where they have a dome that SpongeBob and Patrick occasionally wander into where their cheeks and squirrel lives. Well, they're going to have to come to, they would have to come to land or something to do their metallurgy somehow.

But I think you're right. They're just sort of technologically locked for ever. The only ones that can like grab stuff are the octopi and they're pretty bright, but they die of old age at like 20 months or something. And so like how much generational knowledge could you push down? It's probably just a frantic fight for survival every second of every day. There's no library of Alexandria for the octopus. Yeah, all the paper would get wet.

You know what, though? That's kind of crazy. That tells you that the octopus's short life cycle like that, living only a year. Look how smart that thing gets within one year. I mean, we ain't crap compared to its learning curve, you know? And that makes you, it tells you that there's a faster way than what we have. Now, as far as oceanic civilization is a really sad thing. is what if those are the majority of the civilizations,

and that is the solution of the Fermi paradox, that they're all stuck in their oceans, and we're going to spend all the rest of our existence of putting them out of it, because they're like, get us out of this shit, please. So we uplift these, you know, the dolphin people of, you know, I don't say the Alpha 5 or whatever, and we have to get them out of it

and artificially evolve them to be able to exist outside of an ocean simply because there's just as smart as we are, but they can't do anything. No, I'd be, I'd be like, I'd be boomer mode on that. I'd be like, it's time for bootstraps, brothers. Pull yourselves out. We didn't have to deal with it, but, you know, figure it out. I'm not, you can't just be able to remember.

Remember, we started out long ago, you know, however long ago, as aquatic animals. True. And to this day, we still carry the ocean in our saline bloodstream. So, but we had land. You don't have land. You're stuck. Oh, they have no land at all. Now, maybe you get really creative if you got a volcano or something like that.

Maybe you can, I don't even know what you would do. And what the hell do you do with a fin, you know, it's specialized for moving through water. It's not specialized for, you know, working on a Volkswagen like we do. So, I mean, there's so many conditional things. things. And even if they had the hand, like, chimpanzees have hands. You ever see that clip of David Attenborough handing a hammer to an orangutan and just watching with a complete disgust.

It's a saw that it's just kind of clanging on the side. She understands. That's true. I think my favorite I can't quite identify what it's for. I think I think my favorite of those videos is when Mr. Rogers went and visited a gorilla. Yeah. The gorilla was a fan. And it got The gorilla got all emotional when Mr. Rogers showed up, and it was, like, trying to change his shoe, like, what it saw, you know.

And that's very sweet. I like that. But if anything, your point about us coming out of the sea? It didn't rip Mr. Rogers' arms off, so I guess it was a super fan gorilla. That would have been a horrible video. Don't watch Mr. Rogers be completely in the morning. tonight. Bobo the gorilla to be killed by firing squad tonight at CBS at night. Oh dude

that would have been worse like I mean I was born in 91 so the challenger wasn't a thing for me but if I saw on TV Coco rip Mr. Rogers' arms off and beat him to death that would have stuck with me that's a little terrifying

you know what we need to do for sure about because you're saying like we get to one of these ocean only planets and we would want to help them out of the sea get their fins, give them a little fin extenders or whatever. What we have to make 100% sure of is China doesn't get there first because they're just, that's a buffet to them. They're just going to go and they're going to be like chopping off smart dolphin people's fins, throw in the rest of the carcass in and having soup.

Yeah, like the shark fin. Yeah, shut that down. Although I think, I think they're kind of chilling out on that sort of thing. I mean, look, sharks aren't that common. You can only do that for so long before you run on to sharks. Oh, no. I think that's kind of stinking in there. You kind of need to chill on that.

Yeah. Sharks are important, though. They're not like ticks. They do stuff. I like them. I like sharks. I just don't get near one, you know. But fundamentally.

What do they do for us? They eat all the fucking tuna population under control. I'm fine with that. Let tuna swim. Well, I think it's an equilibrium. All of nature is an equilibrium. That if you upset it and you have an effect here, you could have an effect here way over there,

like the butterfly effect. They're keeping the genetic bloodlines strong. By killing the slower, weaker fish, you have healthier fish populations. If you don't have a predator there, then the whole population degrade slowly over time and becomes a shitty fish. That's how you get bad schools. Exactly.

Yeah. The really useless animals are the virus. That's why school shooters are the sharks of America. I think sharks are, it depends on the kind of shark. The hardcore sharks I find very cool.

And what I thought for a long time as a kid, I thought the Thresher shark was like the king shark because I watched one thing on Discovery Channel when I was like 11 and they just talked for like half an hour about this tail. And then like near the end, showed a size comparison of a Thresher shark and like a great white.

And I was like, you had me going this whole time thinking this was like the grand poobb, the sea. And then it's this little tidily wink next to the big boys. We always talk about equilibrium. And I understand you take out all the wolves and you get too many rabbits or whatever. Why do we always define the current balance as the correct balance? Maybe place it would be cool with more rabbits. There is no correct balance.

It's just what happens. What is is. Finally. Fuck sharks. We agree. And, you know, so they go extinct. A new equilibrium happens, you know, and things like that. But my, again, once again, I have a totally frivolous reason for liking sharks is because I grew up with Jaws.

And I just think sharks are unbelievably cool. That's one of the reasons I don't like sharks. I also grew up with Jaws. You might not know. They're the villain in that movie. Well, yes, but I often like the building. Well, and the mayor. I have actually seen them just off the coast of Mexico.

I've actually seen what I think were great whites. There's certainly sharks with the thin, you know. And I would definitely not get in the water with one. I've seen sharks while surfing many times. But I don't know what kind they were. And they probably weren't dangerous. It's always going to be unsettling. no matter what.

I had nightmares about sharks getting me. And I remember running past my closet to go to the bathroom when I was a young kid. I saw Jaws and I was like eight. I ran past my closet quickly to go pee in the middle of the night because I was worried about Jaws being in there. I live in Missouri. And that scared the shit out of me. I was too early. We're in Missouri.

St. Louis. I'm in St. Charles County. Oh, then we are close. Yeah, I'm in West County as well But that's why when you said earlier You're like there's a lot of lead in southern Missouri I was like fuck I have family in southeast

Missouri hopefully the lead is southwest No, it's It's Ironton and those places And my own thing was St. Genevieve So All right And then I was you know I grew up in St. Louis and

Sometimes I'm here Sometimes I'm not But I But yeah no I was I'm definitely from born and bred in Missouri. Hell yeah, dude. We used to have sharks that used to come up before the dam system. They used to come up to Mississippi.

And they saw them at Alton, Illinois and all that. The dam stop it. It doesn't happen anymore. But sharks apparently can exist in fresh water, some of them. And they were hunting up the catfish in the Mississippi up until the dam system was built in the 20s or whatever. So scary. Because there's that graph of like shark attacks since 1950. And it's like somehow Missouri has like two.

And it's like it's because bull shark are pretty, I guess, stalwart when it comes to handling the fresh or brackish water. And they just go right up there. Munch. And the thing is though is the Mississippi is a smorgasbord. You know, it's full of catfish. And walleye and, you know, all the stuff that just sits there at the bottom.

It's easy pickings if the shark can survive it. And they would see them and there would be attacks at Alton. You know, and it's like, damn. But they can't get up the system now because of the locks and dams. It was a good change. But they, you know, and that was the depression. That was a, you know, a brisd, sharks would swim up the Mississippi in the freshwater? They would swim up from the Gulf in the Mississippi and make it above St. Louis and would attack people.

Yeah. I don't think they could live in freshwater. Bull sharks can. Bull sharks can. And bull sharks are those are like the most ornery kind of shark that it takes the least to upset. I think they have their own like salty water inside them somewhere in like an organ or something. Like they have some adaptation for not just brackish. Yeah.

There's something. But they were able to do it. And the incredible reports that they were able to do. that they were able to do that up until, you know, recent times. And it's like,

you got to wonder historically during the Native American times, how many attacks would happen up here? That's what I'm Googling right now. I tell you, there was a great fish. And it's stools him from the river. They're like, get out of here.

It must be exhausting to swim against the Mississippi. river. I've seen it. I can't imagine. It's an aggressive river. Yeah. It's wild. It's undersold. I don't even how boats go upstream. It's crazy. It would have been wider perhaps, maybe in times gone by. Maybe it's been like, they channelized it. Yeah. Then they also did that with the Missouri River, too, which is literally right there.

And they channelized them, but they used to be these big meandering. shallow things. And the thing is when you channelize it, it goes faster. So now the Mississippi is just tear an ass as far as current goes, but it didn't used to be. And so they might not be able to get up it now, even if the dams weren't there. But that lock and dam system, which is how you use it for commerce so you can control the water levels and get barges and shit up and down.

You know, before when you didn't have that, you couldn't do it. They electrify the water in the lock and dam system and the Great Lakes to keep invasive species from making it in. I wish they would do that here because we have these freaking carp that if you're if you're in a John boat, just cooking along the Mississippi, these things jump out of the water and we'll smack you in the face. Those are the Asian carp, right? The Asian carp. We didn't have them. They're invasive species.

And I don't think anybody knows what to do because they're ever. everywhere now. And they taste bad. And so there's no reason for anyone to want to get it. What carp tastes good. Well, no, yeah, carp's not great. I've seen, have you seen, there's a video of guys in a boat going up the river, and he's got a shotgun, and he's shooting them out of the air as he goes, because they're just, the air is full of a because they're jumping. Apparently, it's the sound of the boat motor, you know, in water, it freaks them out and they come jumping out, but suddenly we've got this fish and you're coming at it at 30 miles an hour. you know and it's like someone's throwing like a

some guy's forearm at you like just like hard and everyone like the the Mississippi moves so fast now that it seems like every few years there's a story out of St. Louis or Alton or something where like kids dare themselves to jump in or dare each other to jump in

and then most of them die where they're like I could swim across the Mississippi and it's like you probably shouldn't really muddy and rough and scary. I would not trust that river's currents. No. Unpredictable.

You know, under toes and things that happen. You know, I mean, you get sucked under under and, I mean, a whole lot of people have died because of that thing. And it's unpredictable. Missouri, less for some reason. But the Mississippi is dangerous. That said. I mean, that is kind of an unsung thing on the just the awesome North American glory that this river is. When you look at how wide that thing is and you go to the confluence between the Missouri and Mississippi and you're just like, oh, my God.

You go out there in winter and there's icebergs, you know, just rolling over each other and everything else. It's cool to drive past in winter when it's doing that. It is. I actually will go out there and just sit in the car. and just watch it because it's, you know, it's mesmerizing, you know, just watching all that ice just coming down from. And you can hear the noise of it too. Like you can hear the the crackling like of all the ice forming and then shattering and forming and chattering. And you wouldn't expect it. You wouldn't expect it in a lower Midwest state. But yep, yep, we got it. And we're going to have that again soon because the cold is going to hit soon, you know.

Winter is coming. Dude, I'm ready for winter. You're close enough to me. We've had fucking five months of 100 degree weather. It was 93 degrees where I live today. I know. I know. I know.

It's just like, this is October, for God's sakes. But it's swinging wildly now, though. You know. It's supposed to be 40 degrees next Monday, and it was 93 today. I have a big, huge nest of wasps over on. my porch in my, you know, this is my studio, but in my main house, I have a big old nestus wasps, and I didn't have the heart to spray them because they weren't bothering me. They didn't do anything. They were just doing their thing with their, you know, paper.

Well, they don't have the heart to kill a wasp. They weren't doing it. I need a reason to kill them. And I have big camp raid, you know, but the thing is that I'm only going to take them out if they get aggressive, then they never did all year. And so I just left them there. But what happened was their freaking nest fell. And now they're all defeated and they're just sitting there on the correct. They're all just like completely defeated.

And I'm like when this, when that 40 something degree temperature, the high, what is this going to be like 50s? The high, they're dead meat. So I'm like watching the apocalypse of this wasp nest. And I'm actually glad I did. didn't kill them because I got to watch, you know, because I've never really closely watched a wasp nest over the course of months. And this one, I was able to. They'll have a war with ants here. Like the ants will be going up and attacking the waspest, trying to eat the larva, and the wasps are going back at them. They have a little

interspecies war. Do there's ant wars happening all around the American continents right now of the Argentine ant versus the American Fire Ant, I believe. And the Argentine ant is winning pretty, pretty well. There's apparently like a battle line that's miles and miles and miles long in California where they can just find these Argentine ants. And I guess a trait of them is they don't have seasons for fighting. They always fight if there's an enemy nearby. And these other ants can't cope.

Think about this. look at the birds. There has been an aerial war between species of birds that's been going since the extinction of the dinosaurs. You know, whenever you see a hawk getting attacked by smaller birds, that war has gone on the whole time, millions and millions of years. It never stops and it cannot stop. Crowes, hawks and owls. They hate that. Oh, yeah.

Is it owls and crows or owls and hawks like that they hate each other? So, like, growing up and my dad still hunts crows, and you use a crow caller. And the sound you play for crows is usually a murder of crows fighting a hawk or an owl. And they hear that, and they're like, what the fuck do I hear? Is there an owl beating up some of my boys? And they fly in, and they send in the alpha crow first and to check things out. And he assesses the situation. and goes back and reports to the squad.

So you've got to kill him as soon as he shows up. Because then they just keep stringing in to see what happened to the lost fucking squad. And you annihilate them all. But as soon as you miss, if that first crow shows up and you miss him, he literally goes, fuck, it's people. And goes back and he tells him, it's people. And they're like, and they literally all leave and you have to go home. That's the end of the hunt.

Yeah, they're clever. Now it's like shooting parrots. really. Yeah. It's a good parent. They're so smart. Something you wouldn't,

you'd never shoot. It's like, you're assholes. All birds are assholes. Find any bird, put your finger in the cage. See how that works out. I've seen those swans hug

little kids. They wrap their big old neck around the kid. He's trying to choke the child, Kyle. That's an aggressive hug. The kid gets off the school bus, and the duck goes,

and its little tail is going, wag, wag, wag, wag, wag, and it's like running up to the person, hon, hawk, hawk, hawk, hawk, hawk, so happy. I see, duck, those are profanities you just said, okay? What animal hates Canadian geese, and how can we help them? Oh, hating Canadian geese. Humans. Yeah, that's for sure.

They're the most. So I had, all right, so I had a buddy that had a parrot. And this parrot was getting more. old. It was like 50. You know, parrots live a long time. And this parrot was the coolest bird I've ever seen because he was set a beer down on the table and the parrot would come along, open it with the beak. And he'd thank it and be like, you're welcome. And then sometimes the bird would just randomly say something like, hey, Bill. He's like, well, he's like, what's like, what's that? Because he was looking at a, like a fossil. And he's like, it's fossil. And the bird was like,

Oh, and that was it. No follow-ups. No follow-ups. It hasn't quite developed full curiosity yet. All right. This bird's cool. We're going to give him a pardon. Yeah.

But as far as, yeah, birds are definitely jerks fundamentally, but they have to be. You know, remember, they are dinosaurs. And that's just the way it is. And when you have other birds coming after your eggs, you have to defend that, you know. But it blows my mind that that's happened for millions and millions of years, a constant war between species and the ants, too, that will never end until something goes extinct, you know? And it kind of leaves you wondering maybe that's why humans are always warring, you know, against each other's because that is the natural order of things. What does that mean that's the case for aliens?

Probably so. Yeah, I also imagine. Be careful do you talk to out there if you're in space. I imagine the alien race that. I'll keep that in mind. Imagine the alien race that descended from wasps or bees or ants and how scary that would be to have, like maybe they still communicate or even interact with their technology using pheromones

or some sort of a little dance. or something. Imagine how you wave the white flag to them. How in the holy hell do you communicate with the species that they communicate chemically? Yeah. We find out they're here for our glucose, which we can make in vast quantities very cheaply, and we just want to wave the white flag and show them Iowa. And we can't figure out what stinky smell means surrender to these people. You would never be able to figure it out because there simply isn't a reference point. Yeah. You know, humans are so very limited in our interactions chemically.

We can smell stuff. We can taste stuff. But that ain't crap compared to what, you know, pheromones and things like that. That, you know, and I guess we have a little bit of that. But what an ants can do and what ants can do collectively, we just don't have anything like that. It's just not there. And if you built a civilization based on that, you would never. be able to understand entirely what it is.

It would be an ant farm that's smarter than you are. And that's kind of terrifying. That's horrible. And they'd show up and they'd be small too. So it'd be hard to keep track of them. I'm serious because there's that also, there's that, what is that law of like if you've tried to do an eight-legged freaks movie thing

and scale an insect up to the size of like a bull? It collapses in on itself. because it, those, I guess, the physics doesn't work out. Like, an ant can only get so big. These little things with hydraulic. That's what their gravity is. Yeah. Like, they can only get so big.

And so they'd still be little and hyper-intelligent, which means they could be everywhere in two seconds. Can you be little hyper-intelligent? It seems like brain size and intelligence are related on our planet. Oh. They are, but there's exceptions like the birds. I mean, birds are the bird brains. You know, they have very tiny brains, yet they are incredible.

smart for what they have. I'm impressed. Crows and ravens are pretty bright. We taught them to do a lot of cool stuff. Well, there are some of them that can use tools. And I know Seagulls have actually started to use cars as tools. What they do is they go get a clam or whatever, fly over the highway, drop the clam in front of a car tire, and then the car runs over. It cracks the shell, and then it's got, you know, the innards. So they're adaptable. And, But they, but they're very specialized in their intelligence that their brains are not generalized like ours are. You know, we're weird because our brains are so generalized.

I'm pretty sure they, I grew up on the beach. They dropped those clams everywhere, just on the boardwalk, on the sidewalk. They bring up for the best. On your hot dog. Yeah, they don't steal your fries. We're not saying they're not clumsy. Yeah. That's another bizarreo JMG story.

I once got shit on by a bald eagle. Oh, okay. And I didn't even know that it happened. So I was wearing this leather jacket. And it was all down my back. And no one told me that a bald eagle is shit down my back. And it was flying. And it was, you know, well, Taylor, you know, bald eagles in Missouri.

Yeah. And yeah, it was, I was down on the Mississippi. And yeah, it's just right down my back. I didn't notice. And I even talked to the mayor of the town. and she didn't tell me that there was bald eagle crap down my back I don't even understand and they take big poops for bread

everybody has a poop story but yours is the best it looked like a freaking turkey had been and I'm like how did I even create a YouTube channel with the things that happen to me you're walking around all day like what the fuck is that smell I didn't even get that far it's just that everybody was being too polite and didn't tell me that my black leather jacket had

bird shit all that. And it was a fucking old eagle of all things. Square knows that in hospitality, efficiency is everything. That's why their system lets you take payments. Track sales, handle inventory, manage staff, send invoices, and keep up with finances all in one place.

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They're probably little bits of, they're disgusting birds. They're basically buzzards with, they're buzzards with good PR. They are, they are very beautiful animals in what they do, and they sit on the river.

You know, they follow the river down, and you see their little bald heads and all that. But they are a bird and they shit. And the other thing that you get down there are the turkey buzzards. Yeah. Which those things will projectile vomit at you.

Yeah. As a protective measure because they have like, they're carrying eaters. They have really severe stomach acid. So you have to, whenever they put their wings up, they're getting defensive and you get the hell away from them. or I was going to get barfed on. And they, you know, it's just, it's a river environment.

And it's, it's very interesting, but very strange at the same time because the birds are just, you know, out of their mind, you know. I hit one of those buzzards one time going about 60. I just drove straight to the car wash. I just drove straight to the car wash. Didn't even, like, roll the window down. I didn't want to smell it. It exploded all over the front of the car. And it was vomit and shit.

And little chunks of buzzer. everywhere. To be fair, I hit him on purpose, but went straight to the car wash. It wasn't that I steered into him. It was that I refused to slow down. I had places to go. He had to make his decisions. Those were on him. Is this in the Camara? Absolutely not. No, I was in my Chevrolet truck. That would have been funnier.

You're like, fucking Shy LeBuff and that 2011 Camaro just flying down the flying down the street, killing a bucket. Yeah. I think we, as humans, Like, I know buzzards with their bone dissolving ability, their stomach pH is more intense than ours. But I think in the scale of animals, we're only like one step below or above, however you'd put it. Like, we have very powerful stomach pH. Is that not correct?

All I know is it's hydrochloric acid for everybody on, as far as I know, you know, they only use biology on earth. only uses that. It doesn't use like sulfuric acids or shit like that, but it could, you know, which brings up Venus, you know, possibilities of Venus life. But fundamentally, it just depends on how concentrated that acid is. And

the carrion eaters like the turkey buzzer, it's it is more powerful than what we do, but at the same time, look how fast we can digest it. You know, so. That's interesting. Venus is,

Venus is a cool one to me because the Soviets sent all those probes up there and those landers. Doesn't that blow your mind that we have pictures from the Soviets of the surface of Venus? Yes, and they're pretty decent pictures. It's terrifying. I think it's like the surface is like 50 or 60 atmospheres and the temperatures like 850 degrees Fahrenheit. It melts. Unreal, but they could keep. They were able to keep those venera probes.

Well, the first one didn't, right? Like, like, they kept, oh, no, yeah, they had their failures, but they had their successes. And they had one of them that they kept alive for an hour. Yeah. Just the most hellish. The ocean ain't crap compared to this. You know, you're safer diving on the Titanic than you would be going here. And they were able to do it.

But they were also able to take high resolution photos in like 1972 because they were like, we're going to do this and we're going to do it right. And the most impressive part is, I don't. know how they got the high resolution photos through that thick-ass atmosphere back to earth. They very powerful transmissions is what the, my understanding, and I think that they, I don't remember what they had. The problem too is that getting something in orbit of Venus is really hard just because of the dynamics. And you can do it, but it's hard, you know, and Russians were like specialists in this and it was, it was a weird situation because they were trying for Mars too. But they weren't having much luck with it.

Everything was failing. But they cracked an even harder nut, which was Venus. And they definitely had their successes. And it's interesting because fast forward 50 years, Venus is showing hints of life, almost as much as Mars does. Really? I thought it was such a hellhole that they gave up on. It isn't.

because if you start going up in the atmosphere, you get up to a level of about 60 kilometers. That is the most earthlike environment in the solar system. It's the same pressure, same temperature. It feels like Earth except there's sulfuric acid everywhere. But now there are scientists that are publishing saying, well, sulfuric acid can actually replace certain things in biology, and you viably could have microbes up there. and there are weird, weird hints that were noticed, you know, long ago, decades ago, like UV absorbers that we don't know what they are. It look like microbial life and all that.

So Venus is on the list as far as possibly having microbial life in its upper atmosphere that probably had one hell of a history because as that planet died, that microbial life would have had to go and adapt and survive up there. Well, but then again, life finds a way. So that's an active area of research is Venus and the possibility that in its upper atmosphere anyway, it has life. They need to do like a Project Hail Mary type mission where a probe goes near enough to Venus that you can lower some sort of a scoop into that atmosphere and take a little sample out of there and then loop back to Earth. That's on the agenda. It's already on the agenda. There are plans for Venus Lifefinder mission that would be sent privately that would do something just like that. Oh, who's planning it?

Well, I can't really talk too much about it because of sort of embarked, but there are plans to do that and not just in the future. And the thing is, though, Venus is hinting its ass off that there's something going on there. And, like, well, there was also a detection of phosphine gas, which is, well, there was also a detection of phosphine gas, which is, biology related in the atmosphere of Venus. There was a detection by those veneropropes. The Russians, as they were parachuting down, were seeing particles in the lower atmosphere that look exactly like bacillus bacteria that were just dying and falling.

And it was detecting these particles. Nobody has ever been able to come up with what else that might be in that atmosphere. and we add all of those indicators together, you're left asking the question, you know, because Venus, one theory about Venus was an ocean world. And it was too close to the sun. It went horribly wrong and ended up as a hellhole.

But it was once an ocean world, which means habitable. Well, maybe it did have something and maybe that something adapted. and is sitting in the atmosphere. If you look at the future of Earth, the opposite will happen with us. So the last thing that will go extinct here is the microbes.

And it's going to require the melting of the surface of the earth by the ever-increasing luminosity of the sun to end all life on Earth because the microbes are just too tenacious. But very first life on Earth is still alive, far below the surface, down in the rocks. and they're going to last many billions of more years until the melting, you know, and well, why couldn't that have happened at Venus in the exact opposite and went up in the

atmosphere, you know? Did the U.S. never probe or get good data on Venus? We were all moon-focused, Mars-focused. We never tried? Well, there was one. You can only do so much, right? how much money you want to spend. But we did do the Magellan probe where we sent a radar and we wanted to map the surface because you can't see it because of a cloud deck.

They wanted to map the surface. So that was NASA. They did that. Really, Venus was more of a Soviet focus. And they got a lot more done than we did. Did they pursue Venus because they thought there was something there? Or was it because we were already winning a different back? and they chose a different.

Like, what was the impetus of them? I think that that's what they were doing. And I think that the idea that both Soviet and American science had at the time was spread it around. You know, we got these governments who are all wanting to spend money. No, the United States didn't really look at Venus. And Russia's like, we'll take a look, you know. And that was how that, you know, why would you double it up, basically? Sure.

And we learned that from like Apollo because everybody, you know, both the Russians and the Americans were sending probes there, you know, automated probes. The Americans landed, you know, humans on it. There you go. And the Russians were like, well, you know, you've been there, done that. Let's do other stuff. I'm looking forward to these future Artemis missions. And I know there's been some talks about the, there's like a visible cave on the moon.

Yeah, the moon lava tube, yeah. Are they going to try to utilize that in one of these Artemis missions? Oh, dude, yeah, of course. They are, well, I don't, Artemis, probably not. But the Artemis really only has one more mission unless they extend it. And the administration right now doesn't seem very open to extending it, you know. But the fact is we'll put boots on the moon. Who knows what private, you know, who knows what Jeff Bezos is going to do, right?

So the, the bottom line is, is if you need shielding, what you do on the moon, you got to keep the cosmic rays out. You got to keep the, you know, the horrid of the, you know, the environment of the moon. You know, the day and night is terrible there, you know, as far as. temperature swings. If you have a cave, problem solved. So if you put your lunar colony in a cave, you're, um, you're, you're, you're good, you know. You're also not immediately killed if there's ever some sort of a Carrington event or something like that. And you're on the surface of the moon. You're totally. And, yeah, you're totally shielded. And so that's, that's why that, the other thing, too, you got to ask the question is, is there ice in there? You know, it's protected.

And is there a temple of knowledge in there with Egyptian fucking hieroglyphs written on the walls? What I want to know. You know what I mean? Like that's the sort of stuff that tickles my fancy. I'm going to go in there and explore. I want to know what's in there. The giant black monolith that's going to emit a signal and uplift you from, you know, humanity and turning into a robot.

Then we can go on some sort of a space odyssey. It'd be great. Then it'll run out and make Jupiter into a star. We don't know. but there is some weird stuff surrounding that. There are some ideas in astrobiology that are very, very recent, as in like two months ago. They,

they, the idea is what happens if micro technology like microplastics, well, like we were talking about earlier, what if that's pervading the universe from other civilizations and the moon has been collecting, you know, technological evidence, you know, pulverized technological evidence, this whole time, the last one. That'd be interesting and preserving it in a way that Earth doesn't. It would.

And the Moon preserves things way better than Earth does. You know, Earth, volcanoes and hurricanes, God knows what. Oxidation. Moon doesn't have any of that. So it just preserves, you know. And so there could be anything on the Moon, hypothetically. Anything from an alien archive where aliens visited two billion years ago and they're like, well, maybe this planet will someday be.

inhabited. So we're going to leave them a message, you know. So we're going to put our giant chunk of rebar concrete, you know, right here that says hello and just leave it. You know, we don't know. No one knows. And the only way you will know is if you look. And now scientists are saying, well, we should probably look. But it all, it goes all the way down to the microscopic level. You know, like I said, the microplastics, this would be maybe metals, you know, you normally shouldn't see, you know, that are sitting in the lunar regalith and have just collected there that are from another star system, you know. That's one idea anyway.

I want to get back to all this space stuff that I'm so wildly uninformed about. But you know what I am informed about? Audible.com, folks. Audible.com. Could listening make you a better parent, a better leader, even a better person? Could listening to motivating fitness programs get you fit? could listening inspire you to start something new. There's never been a better time to start listening on Audible.

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So all of those are linked below. Check it out. 20% off. You know, these guys have been wondering what it's like to see giant loads. Now they and their moms will know. Now they and their don't insult the customer. I'm not supposed to say that your mom. But that's, you know, and you know, that's kind of our area of. science, John, is that we, is that we figured out a way to bust hard.

Yeah, but you scare me when you say 20% off. I need more context. It's off the price. It's off the price. Off the price. Yeah, it's not your junk. Not the penis or the bust. It's going to be way more than plus 20% on your bust.

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Well, stills a day. All right. Yeah. Okay. Morning, three at night. You know.

I mean, you know, hopefully it has a lot zinc anyway. We came up with a formula. We went into the lab with this one. We put some gloves on. We started measuring.

Gloves. They were gloves. I'm on natural. Yeah. But that is how we came up with it. Kyle and I were like, what are you taking the bus more? We were like,

yeah, we're learning. Combined our formulas. Yeah. I was ejaculating into condoms, drawing it out with syringes, taking measured notes over the course. of weeks. Then we employed the pro-science tiers over

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this good stuff. I never I'm always talking about some fucking book or something. Can we get Derek on the line? Can we get Derek sponsoring, John? With jizz pills? Can you imagine if I had to do that on how formal everything is and science? No problem surprises and all that.

You'd be like imagine. 20 billion years for this to form on that distant asteroid. It's really remarkable. Anyway, are you tired of not coming enough? Sorry to mention it again. But we have we advertising is advertising guys we wouldn't be doing this if we didn't It's the way she goes that's the way she goes you gotta keep the lights on Oh man I wish I knew more about esoteric space stuff the way Kyle does so I had a

A baked in wonderful question for you but all my questions seems so juvenile where in my head I'm like how big is space real? He said he was an expert in archaeology. What's Stonehenge all about? And so many explanations I see for ancient things, look reverse engineered on there. Like what's an ode to trying to map some constellation to a bunch of columns? And what's people just pretending that's what it is?

You know what I do? whenever somebody says look bra pyramids were built by aliens i'm like give me a couple of contractors one year and i will demolish those pyramids and replace them with gigantic skyscrapers way taller than they are where's the aluminum where is the plastics where is the stuff and it's not there it's all these natural materials like granite and copper and all that that the Egyptians had to work with. But what bothers me about that kind of stuff is that it robs the Egyptians of their accomplishment.

They built a really fucking awesome pyramids, well, several, multiple pyramids. And they're still here thousands of years later. And I don't want to rob those people of that accomplishment and blame it on aliens. And if it was an alien, where's the aluminum? whereas the materials that wouldn't have been available to the Egyptians. Yeah, a chunk of refined aluminum would be your techno signature right there.

If you could find that, and if at the center of the pyramid there was a big sphere of pure aluminum, did you know that on the top of the Washington Monument, it's capped with aluminum. It's a couple pounds. At the time it was constructed, it was an incredible technological achievement to refine that much aluminum. They could have put gold up there. They put aluminum instead. Well, the rich people used to break out the aluminum because when we first were able to isolate it, they were making it into, you know, dinnerware.

And so you go in the King of England, you know, it's not silverware. It's aluminum. And that went to hell pretty quick as it got cheaper to make aluminum. But the bottom line is that you aren't going to find native aluminum, you know, not in any quantity, you'll see the atoms. But the thing is, is that that's a no-brainer, you know, for a technological civilization to create and use. You know, that's way better to build with than granite, you know,

or even steel, steel, eyebeams, you know, and we don't see that within any ancient structures. So it's all kind of a, it's a house of cards, a mythos, you know, the ancient aliens and all that. but when you dig down deep, it's like we really should be seeing you know, Pepsi bottles and things like that.

Yeah, I don't think there were any ancient aliens. I don't know how that show was so successful for so long. There's like 20 seasons of ancient aliens. Dude, they primed their audience to accept ancient aliens because the show right before would be like, we're the history channel. We care about facts and figures. And now this next hour long special,

is about how Hitler contacted demons to do his dirty work for and it's like this is retarded like we're living in fantasy land and so like you you watch a Hitler was like communing with demons with a Ouija board special

you're primed for ancient aliens dude so that's true though I think it was Gerbils he was very interested in the occult he was looking for the spear that pierced Jesus his side He built that Or he purchased that

I think it's in Germany Makes sense The castle which was supposed to be Like the center of a cult activity He like He didn't believe it was That wasn't helpful Like it was because they had a bunch of autistic

German guys building rockets That they were like good at war If anything Hitler had to be there like Oh they're still doing the The ancient spear thing Oh my God I should have done more research This guy he's a fucking lunatic

The only thing that you can say about any of those people in that regime was they were all lunatics. And they were fueled importantly by amphetamines. You know, I mean, how many drugs was Adolf Hitler being injected with each day by that quack doctor that he had? Yeah. And you look at him, you look at him at the 1936 Olympics, he's tweaking, you know? And it's just like, yeah, exactly. you just know. And it's like,

he was excited. You know, he would love the thing. I doubt he was excited about Jesse Owens. You know what he said? Get me on the field. I feel like with a little head start, maybe even,

I could beat him. I could. I'm telling you, Hans. Well, the doctor he had, he probably could be. He probably did. I thought he was like oddly stoked on Jesse Owens, where he was like,

you are one of the good ones, you know, so to speak. know, let's not go too far, but you're pretty quick. You know, that's what you was saying. But can you imagine going to the doctor every day? And the guy just shoots you up with amphetamines and you're like, I'm healthy. I'm just glad in America, yeah, see that rocking like that?

You know what that is? I'm just glad Jesse Owens, an American went over there and, you know, showed him what first. Showed him what's what, you know. We did get absolutely. clobbered in that Olympics. But if you look, yeah, we got destroyed. Germany, like, doubled us up on medals. But, yeah, we, we didn't have a good showing at that Olympics.

That's why we talk about Jesse Owens. As far as I remember, for 1936, Jesse Owens was about it for the United States. Yeah, he was our guy. That's why we're making a big to do. And he was awesome. That was about it. But I don't know if he was. But who knows what coercion, you know, I mean,

36 was early for the Nazi regime. What coercion and funny business was going on, you know, to promote German. Oh, yeah. You know? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was just thinking that they did what a lot of those countries do, which is, like, force way more people into training. And then you get a higher level of success.

I have not looked deeply into that, but it was something like that. But at least the world generally just remembers Jesse Owens. Yeah. That's because we won. Yeah. if we won the whole kit and caboose. Weirdly, though, there is a misconception regarding the 1936 Olympics. You watch the movie Contact, and they say that was the first transmission that would reach aliens, was Adolf Hitler.

No, no, no, it was closed circuit television. That didn't even get out of Berlin, you know. So a mythos developed around it, but the fact is it wasn't even transmitted. It was closed circuit television. What is the first message that they would receive hypothetically? Let me think on that for a moment. If they could receive any message, it was probably Marconi, I would think. Because the reason I say that as Tesla is picking up Gugliamot Marconi's experiments,

and he thought it was aliens. Yeah. But it was Marconi out in the ocean, you know, doing experiments. that would be the first one I would expect. You know, Tesla claimed that he was speaking to the aliens. Was Marconi fucking with him? We don't know. Hilarious.

But I do know. I do know. Coming to catch you. Especially since, you know, Marconi was an Italian and he probably would have loved to mess with some guy in the hole. But the thing is, there was one. the Tesla said that he was picking up

transmissions from Mars but I built a radio telescope when I was a kid was a teenager which tells you how much how many girlfriends I was getting and

radio telescope specifically to connect it to a short wave radio and shortwave frequencies so that I could listen to Jupiter because Jupiter naturally, it's radiation tourists naturally emit's radio waves. They sound like, it sounds like waves on a beach,

you know, just waves, it's doing this, you know. And that's what he was hearing. But that got taken and made into, well, Tesla heard aliens before anybody else was transmitting. No, he was hearing probably Jupiter, you know, and then also was Marconi missing with him, you know, and you're calling the questions. So it, but these things morph and grow. Another one would be the Black Knight satellite conspiracy theory.

Yes. Okay. And this one starts with a guy named Donald Kehoe, Major Donald Kehoe in the 1950s, who was involved with the UFO investigations. And he said that the U.S. had discovered two satellites. before Sputnik and that they were aware about it. But it's just one account, one sentence from E.O. on this. Well, that morphed across the 90s into this idea that, yeah, yeah, US government had picked up, you know, alien satellites or whatever.

But it got so distorted by today, you know, the internet and, you know, streaming channels and things like that. there's a whole mythos about it, you know, with this blanket that NASA lost the, you know, picture of it and saying that's the Black Knight satellite and all that. And it just created this mythos. But that's all bullshit. However, there's a scientist, Dr. Beatrice Virol, that actually found transients in photos, you know, taken all-sky surveys from Palomar Observatory that show objects up there before Sputnik. So it's kind of back to Donald Kehoe, but you follow the pop culture and it's all still this, you know, stuff about the Black Knight satellite.

But there appeared to be something up there, maybe, maybe back then. Yeah, that's interesting. I was, I'm interested in all sorts of stuff. I was talking to him about Anokian myths last week or maybe the week before. And in that removed, redacted book of the Bible, they talk about the watchers above humanity who look down the, the 200 who were above the earth watching book of enoch yeah yeah um i wanted to ask you of the possible techno signatures that have been detected stars flickering in odd ways diminishing and enlarging or in luminosity i should say um gravity waves maybe even like what's the most perplexing that no one quite knows what's going on with

that why is that thing wiggling the way it is type stuff can i broaden it out a little sure and the reason i say that is because um there are all kinds of unexplained stuff that we don't really understand you know and within physics some of it is extremely obvious you know like for example the double slit experiment how is how does light behave both as a wave and then you trick it to become a particle and so on um there's all kinds of those and i can of course talk about those but But there's all kinds of them. The one that really perplexed me, though, right now is a star that it is almost entirely forgotten about within the astronomical community, even though it's been known about for 80, 90 years.

And it shows signatures of trans-uranic elements, including plutonium in the star. we don't know how that can happen if those measurements are real you know it wasn't instrument error or anything like that somebody needs to verify it and nobody has uh we we we we we found it you know that's that's that's aliens another stuff have gone supernova and then it absorbed the remnants of that one to get it to uranium you're you're you're just too far up the periodic table for that there could be nuclear hanky-panky, but it's against all stellar physics on how it could happen. And two possibilities come out of it.

Number one, there is something about nuclear physics that we don't understand despite all our particle accelerators and everything. There are things we do not understand about how upper order elements could be created. Or two, there's an alien civilization using that star as a nuclear waste dump and from reactors, right? because that's how that how you make those elements artificially and the thing is those what are they saying because are they saying um yeah this is our trash star are they saying that or and this this this star for anybody that's interested it's um it's called gibilski star which is a Polish word and it's hugely long but i think it's HD 139 139 and it uh as far as the stol or day

designation in the catalyst. But the star, it's the only one doing this that we've ever seen where it has these weird, really weird, transuranic elements like Einsteinium and it just stuff way above, you know, uranium. It should not be. Way above like dense. Way above like dense. sensor artificial or like man-created particles or? No, there are atoms at the very highest of the periodic table that, as far as we know, can only be created artificially. And it's showing what we think or what those researchers think are the absorption lines in the spectrum that are pointing to those elements. But the star is also showing a weird, weird, weird element called technetium, which is, an element lower down the periodic table, but it's very hard to get to, you know, with normal, you know, atomic physics.

And we use technetium for like cancer research and things like that. But it's, it's very, very hard to get to because you have to decay down to it. And it's showing it. And it's like there is something replenishing higher order elements and they're decaying down into weird. elements like technetium and you know um just presiodymium and all kinds of weird ones that you man-made elements that don't occur in nature like Einstein they almost don't they do but they almost don't Einsteinian doesn't I don't see so many well yeah those upper-order ones don't um they're saying them you know so are they dumping their nuclear waste or are they dropping it in there

and pulses to signal. Well, it could be even more... Is it a message fire? It could be more nefarious than that. Let's entertain. This is speculative. You know, don't hold me to this. I'm just throwing it out there.

If it's natural, it means that there is something called the island of stability, which is hypothesized in nuclear physics, and that the star is able to do that somehow. But what's the mechanism? You know, and people were like, you know, scientists were like, well, maybe it's getting bombarded by a neutron star, you know, but there isn't one there. It's just a star on Chrome. And it's like, well, why is this start doing this? Because it doesn't have the makeup otherwise to do it.

Well, that's if it's natural, which that is a Nobel Prize. If you can prove the violent of stability, you've, you're heading to stop. You know, the only other option is that it's an alien civilization salting that star on purpose could be a nuclear waste dump, but it's salting it with elements that are frivolous for nuclear waste. You know, they're highly radioactive, but no process we would ever use would produce them. We just make them an accelerator just because to see if we can, you know. or it's sending a message and that message could be really nefarious. And it's saying that we have high order nuclear physics. Stay away from us.

And that there might be something out there, you know, Vipers civilization that scares them. So they're making their star as scary as they can, Vlad the Impaler again. You know, and they're just making it like, don't come here. you know,

which implies that, you know, the, what is it, the dark forest hypothesis. Yeah. You know, things like that,

that, seems like we should avoid these guys regardless, just in case. It suggests that there's something out there that they know about and they're warning that we don't know about. So, you know, there's a scary scenario.

That would suck. Just like on a random, Tuesday we just get owned like that would that would be the worst probably wouldn't know it you know we just we just disappear it'd be if they send something at us

that's like as fast as the speed of light then you don't see it coming by its very nature right because you need light to reflect off of it and no you might you might get a little like like you would because

you would because the earth is rotating so if you have like a I don't know. I'd be like that guy in Pompeii caught jacking off. No, well, you would have a, you would have a, you would have a gamma ray burst that hits one side of the earth. But the rest of the you have to rotate around to get it. So you'd get news that half the earth is dead. And you're one hour from that.

I was just imagining they accelerated an asteroid in our star system to like a quarter of the speed of light and then watch us explode. You don't even need that. you don't need an asteroid. Just do a pineapple would work. Just accelerate at those speeds and have a hit, you know. Or making our Cubier warp drive and sun the pineapple

across space at superluminal speeds then have all of that radiation it's collected as across space. Irradiate your planet that you want to destroy. Yeah. And then by the time they get here,

we're all gone. Yeah. Man, we can't do any of this stuff. We're going to get destroyed if we accidentally talk to someone too early. Oh, and that's why I think a lot of those people that hold on to the UFO phenomenon

as alien. You know, the people that want it to be aliens. They're not thinking that through because that is the worst conceivable calamity that could ever befall human civilization. is a technologically superior alien civilization sitting in your atmosphere with you.

That means you don't own your planet, you don't own your star system, and you are dead the very first moment it thinks you need to be dead. Yeah, and they could look at us, who knows how hyper-intelligent or advanced they would be. They could look at us the same way we do, like if you accidentally crush an ant-hill walking through a yard. Or it's simply crazy. So you have a Vinoimann probe that is a billion years old. It's been crossing space time. It's taken a few too many cosmic rays and it's lost its programming. But it's still functional enough to make UFOs and gray aliens or whatever wants to 3D print out.

But it's so far off that it just is irrational. And it sends it in. there and you see there's UFOs doing shit. We don't understand. Why? Why? It's because the probe that the alien civilization has sent that, its programming

is so corrupt that it's insane. And you are at the mercy of an insane de facto God. And it would be like that to us. Who was that Air Force pilot who was like highly regarded

like meddled up? And he went on the podcast circuit. He was even on Joe Rogan. And he was like, we saw things in the sky that don't make sense. We couldn't like it moved in such a way that we knew it. It wasn't our technology. And we have the best technology. And so it wasn't China.

It wasn't rush. Like either it was an input delay or some sort of data interference or it was something that we don't even understand how it moves. I would sure like to see evidence of that, you know, instrumentation evidence, because then we'd have something to chew on. Sure. But other than that, it's an account. And that was David Fraver in the 2004 Nimitz encounter. And that was multiple pilots, by the way.

There's a whole bunch of them, you know, and radar operators and everything else. They saw something they couldn't identify. But the government says, U.S. government says, okay, we're going to look into this. And they go and they're like, well, the data doesn't exist. It was 20-something years ago. We don't have the radar data, you know. There's nothing, no way to take that further, you know, other than to tell you to mount some instruments on an aircraft carrier, you know. And that's all you can really do.

But other than that, it's an anecdote. and anecdotes are only, you can only, they're only actionable so far as you can throw them. They might tell you what to look for. They might tell you where to look, but not much else. And a lot of them,

within the UFO community, they focus on things that happened in like 1952 where all witnesses are dead. Mm-hmm. And we only have the information that they left. The UFO is long gone. What do you do with it? You know,

No, there's nothing you can do. No, there's not that it's just an interesting account, you know. I mean, fun to read, interesting read, perplexing perhaps. But I do trust like a series of high-ranking Air Force pilots more than a guy in like Nebraska who's like, I got spooked. Like definitely more than that. You know what, there's the story that Grimlins was based on. I think it was a, I think it's in Kentucky.

They claimed that their farmhouse was basically attacked by long, pointy-eared, small, green alien men, and that they engaged in a firefight with them. Yeah, I remember that to count. No, I wasn't trashed out of my mind firing into the weeds. Guys, I can just tell you, I've spent a lot of nights sitting there drinking out on my porch, and none of that shit's ever happened to me. I would love it. If an alien with huge ears came up to me and started shooting at me, I'd be like, oh, I can die happy. You know, no, no.

I'm kind of with you on that. If a Klingon came down and ran it with a Batleth, I'd be like, thank you God. No, totally worth it. It was a good day to die. Especially if somebody actually recorded proof of it and say, some bitch was killed by a Klingon with a bat lift. Do you hear what happened to Kyle? Fucking Klingon took him out.

He got bisected by this monster. A whole lot better than colon cancer. You know, or... I agree completely. Dying of COVID or something. Over the years, the legend would build. They'd be like, yeah, Kyle got a couple good licks in. That Klinger was on the ropes for a second.

You got one good punch. In reality, I tricked on my way, walking up to it. I mean, he just stabbed me in the back on the ground and called me up a talk. Pick one for the human race, the entire human species, by punching the Klingon, but it didn't work. Ultimately, you, you took a bat less than the four. I don't watch Star Trek, but the Klingons, they have the bonehead. So you couldn't even pop them one because they got bonehead. They do.

They do. They head butt each other really hard, and it's a big part of their deal. Yeah, they, yeah, they did that a lot. But yet, if you go back to the William Shatner days, they didn't have the bonehead. Yeah, they were. sort of a stand-in back then for like a Mongolian. They were doing a very stereotypical like they gave them darker skin, sort of a brown face from being honest.

And then they gave him Mongolian facial hair and sort of a Mongolian gangus Khan type, like warrior mythos attitude. They were also a bit Soviet-esque, but really the Romulans were the Soviets in the original series. What is Mongolian? They were also ultra. Those little mustaches that are completely like, separate. That is a

Fu Manchu and that would be Chinese and he gave this part and then he got this going on. The 1960s and stereotypes and all that stuff and I'm honestly surprised that Roddenberry didn't actually intervene and say no, we need

more than that, you know? Yeah, they were a little lame. The next generation got the Klingons right. Worf is my favorite Star Trek character of all time. Like Warf is the best. Yeah. I love to why. Is he the autistic guy?

He's the Klingong. He doesn't get it. He's like, I just got to understand why you would believe this about someone. And they're like, it's because it's like feelings and stuff. And he's like, yeah,

but the other. Yeah, but the thing is, the other Klingon didn't understand him either. You know, they were like, Worf's a weirdo, you know,

compla. And so no one understood Worf, but, Worf is like a Japanese guy who was born in California. but he's gotten super into Japanese culture. My own people have called me gay and now you join them. And so he's like in Tokyo walking around and like a guy and they're like looking at him weird.

Like are you learn everything that you know about us from a book. So he's he was adopted by humans and raised by them. Yeah. But his story was those guys can wear like big sunglasses and they have like sunglasses on their head because of the ridges. They just. Yeah, but even then he grew up in Russia because his parents were Russian. remember. Yeah.

And he, uh, he, uh, he didn't fit either the Klingons or the humans. And I was like, you're recycling Spock, you people,

you know? Yep. Spock was half human and all that. Exactly. Recycling. Um, out of sci-fi series is on television. We're not talking about books yet.

Out of sci-fi series is, your favorite, I ask you, Taylor first, then you, Kyle. My favorite. sci-fi series of all time on TV is Twilight Zone. I love the Twilight Zone.

God, how I wish I could talk like Rod Serling. Yeah. Imagine a world where you're not 5'4. And that was Rod's problem. It's like every once in a while, I'd be like, this guy looks like a fucking Von Wall motherfucker. And then you'd see him standing in front of like a 1950s car. And I'm like, oh my God, is there a giganteau ray that?

made that car enormous. No, he's just 5'3. The hilarious thing about Rod Serling was that he, you know, he would sit there on his, on his lawn. He had a pool in Los Angeles. And he would just sit there and write this shit down in a notebook just totally winging it while drinking, you know, because it was like 19, whatever. And, you know, drinking martinis and shit like that. And he would just make it into a TV show. And there it was.

and it was the most bat-shut crazy stuff. And he ruled. That guy was so ahead of his time. Oh, he was. And he died way too early. Yeah, he died at 50. Yeah, in 1975 of smoking. Right here.

Kyle, your favorite. Oh, man, it's really hard. I love them all. This is something I'm super into. The expanse really struck a chord with me because of it's not that far ahead of us. And it felt much more. realistic than a much more likely outcome than say Star Trek because Star Trek requires

a beyond scarcity society that has made complete peace on earth and we're essentially like future communist peace-loving hippies who only work for the betterment of intelligence at large not even humanity anymore they don't care that seems maybe a million years from now we've got to evolve into a much nicer species for that to happen. But the expanse, it's capitalism, baby. Capitalism is what's done it. The only tweak that goes into science fiction, really, until you get a little bit deeper into the big crux of the situation. But the world at general, the universe at general, is that they've created a drive for spaceships that is essentially super efficient and very fast and allows you to skip around the solar system in a matter of days or weeks, sort of

you know, like modern air travel did back before when people were in steamships. It really has allowed the colonization of Mars, several asteroids, and the most important part, the part that's driving all the technology is capitalism because we're mining the asteroids. There's become a third faction that is the belters,

this segment of humanity separate from Mars and Earth that essentially lives in the low gravity of the asteroid belt and have become culturally, linguistically, and societally different than the Martian, just as the Martians have from the Earth, than the Earthers, as they're called. I love the expanse.

What was the question? Favorite TV series? The question was your favorite television sci-fi series. Now you, Woody. Firefly. I like Firefly. Oh, Firefly was cool. They were not the most powerful people around.

They didn't. They weren't even. professionals. They were basically space van lifers hoping to just sort of skirt around the rules and live by their own. And I thought that was dope doing gig work. I thought it was dope too. I liked Firefly a lot. Now I will throw up mine. Do you guys remember the reboot, which I think was 2002, 2004? Battle Star Galactica. Battle Star Galactica. It's my number two. That one, just the idea that

you know just the all of the weird ideas that Ron Moore was was interweaving into that that is my producer keeps messaging me asking that was good

and not to mention that you know I mean Tresia Holfer was pretty easy on the eyes my God I've never seen a single episode of Valencia with a red dress glass

Oh, yeah, I know who she is, the Cylon. Spoilers. Yeah, and she was chilling. She was chilling because she was a Cylon. She was a robot, but she was extremely religious. And it's like, no, that's interesting. Like a robot religion? Yeah.

And they were, the colonial people were polytheists, you know, worshipping Athena and the Greek gods and all that. But the Cylons were monotheists, talking about God. And there would be times where they would have these, these, you know, base stars, you know, their giant ships that would, you know, launch their attack ships and all that. And they were, they were controlled by insane babbling sylons that lived in a tub. And you could almost understand them, but not always. but there was one in Battlestar Galactica Razor,

where it was a proto one, a former human that was turned into a Cylon-Basedar brain controller. And he was seeing, he was saying, God. And it was just creepy, you know,

just as creepy as you could get. And it was just so well done, so well written. But it aired back in the early 2000s and was forgotten. more or less you know you're right that was a really good show but it doesn't seem to have the cultural relevance of some of the other shows we like star trek for example no it doesn't it never never caught on that way but it uh it you know forget my stupid cell phone um it never caught on in that way but it's a sci-fi writer you know i'm like oh they knew what they were doing you know

because it just had multiple levels of depth. It's still worth watching. Like, if you never saw it. Oh, yeah. It'd still be good. Oh, it's, there are so many allegories there that speak to just the, I love Adama's character. He has such a, oh, my God, Edward James almost nailed that. Yeah.

For God. When he's talking to the president about the balance between military and, and police, and when a military starts policing its people, they become. call the enemy. The people becomes the enemy of the military. And it's your own point. That line has forever influenced my opinion on that. I always thought the army would make great police, right? In America, we make them out to be like the, the purest, the best amongst us, the strongest, the fittest, the smartest, whatever. You know, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Suck a dick. And I'm like, why is it bad for the army to be the police? Well, now I kind of get it. The army to break shit. You kind of get it. When they're working with civilians with a breakdown of society, it's like, this is why martial law happens because you have a greater threat and it's it's it's it asked you questions you know very great questions and at the bottom line though the character development and the acting you know with the president and uh what was her name mary mcdonald um um and you know Dom and all that, the acting was just top-notch. And those actors knew that.

They knew that they had something, you know, and it just the writer. Nobody's phoning it in. Every single, even the small character actors in that show give really good performances. And that show has real stakes. People die. Granted, some people come back to life. But those are like big moments in the show when that people die.

You know, very callous evil acts. by the Sylons, but you understand why they are doing it. Yeah. Because of their perspective. And I don't know how I feel about the ending, the final season. I think it won't, what, four seasons? Okay. There are certain things I liked, you know, just for no other reason they were cool.

Like here in Jimmy Hendricks, you know, all along the watch, which is actually Bob Dylan. But hearing that, you know, and ultimately it ended well. you know, with mitochondrial Eve and, you know, things like that. But and we are silons. Yeah. Well, I just throw out the most major spoiler. That's okay. But the thing is that I thought that is quality sci-fi, you know.

And it came from, again, Ron Moore, who was the showrunner, but he was also one of the showrunners for Deep Space Nine, which in my opinion had the most depth out of any of the Star Trek. Of course. Your thoughts. Oh, it's the best Star Trek that has ever trekked. I am a fan, and when you give me fan service on something that's so, like, central to my childhood, I remember. I was talking to my dad the other day.

He's in his 70s about when, like, we would watch the original series in the living room late at night and watch Kirk fight the Lizzar, fight the Gorn. He was like, that Gorn looks so silly, and we pulled it up and watched it on his 4K TV and laughed and laughed. So, Deep Space 9 was by far the best. They, you know, it was, the creators wanted to do a serial, a more serialized show where it matters what happened in this episode tomorrow. You know, like, because some bad things happen to these guys. They become psychologically and physically damaged. One character loses his leg. And they get him on a, you know, it's Star Trek.

So they get him a new leg, but he's psychologically damaged. So he's got a limp. Yeah, that was the Ferengi kid. Yeah. Yeah. That was a tremendous. tremendous episode. There are episodes about PTSD and torture and yeah and the other thing is that they that is number one Benjamin Cisco Avery Brooks is by far my favorite Starfleet captain he's the most effective

he had the most depth of character development and he was the deepest character and he was so conflicted because he was basically talking to aliens he didn't understand the wormhole aliens and also having to pull it together and deal with everything that was going on, including a gigantic war with a power that was more powerful than they were. And it's just like, oh, yeah, okay, this is, this is not your, this is not Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek. No, this is more. So Gene Roddenberry had sort of a production note that was there shouldn't be

conflict in this show, at least interpersonal conflict on like the Enterprise, for example. Scottie shouldn't be mad at O'Houra because a message got like crossed and he went to warp two instead of warp three. He shouldn't be yelling at her. That would never happen because they've evolved past that. And so that made it really hard to write a show because conflict is what makes a narrative. It's the crux of the whole story. But the thing is that sometimes they would get it right because you remember that creepy episode of the original Star Trek. That was like the Cold War where they first met the Romulan Star Empire.

It's the best episode. It's my favorite Star Trek The Next Generation episode. It's when they have that cat and mouse game between a stealth Romulan ship and the Enterprise, and it's very much like submarine warfare. Well, that's what the idea was, and it's like

I understand that, but Deep Space Nine took it to a different level. I mean, they blew it through the roof as far as the depth of characters. Now, let me ask you guys this. That's stupid. I'm basically taking over his host here.

Go for it. No, no, no. Let's go to a different area, a sort of fantasy area, as far as watching television. What did you guys think about Lost? Kyle, you first. When Lost came out, it was a new kind of television. They spent well over a million dollars on that pilot episode.

The guy who Greenlit that got fired because of that, even though it became a big hit. And it was constantly asking fantastic questions. It was like a modern day treasure island with all of these fantasy and sci-fi elements and I was hooked

in a time where it was difficult for me to watch TV regularly. I was still hooked. But then it felt like they lost the plot as the thing went on and it became, they never knew the answer to their first question. They were more concerned with asking their second, third, and fourth questions.

And they just kept befuddling me. And I watched a three-hour video one time that explains the island, the numbers, the various timelines. And I don't buy it. I think they were shooting from the hip and hoping stuff would stick. It happened, you know, in the midst of the writer's strike. So I think that the new writers didn't know what the old writers were going for or going with. And it's not a, it's not a show I watch.

It's not a show I go back and watch ever because of all that. I'd echo a lot of what Kyle said. While I was watching it, I was in. intrigued, right? When we first met, did they call them the outsiders? I forget, the others. When we first met the others, I was so, oh, my God, I can't wait to see this. When we first saw Walt's Powers, I'm like, ooh, is that why we're here? When we first saw fat fucks, like psychiatric episodes or whatever, I'm like, ooh, he's actually the kingpin here. When we first saw this, when we first saw that, every goddamn episode was a trailer for a movie I'd rather be watching than this one. And they never really got to what they were teasing. And by the time the show was, was over, I was like, oh, this is just a wreck of horseshit. This is just a pile of undigested mixed up show vomit

that never really went anywhere. It was a tease to something great that never became great. You felt tricked. Woody. Missed carriage is better. Woody, over here, an old guy land. Let me ask you this. Did you notice all of the similarities between Lost and the

90s PC game? What was that called? mist. I wasn't in the mist. I know of it, but I didn't get into it. That was the big inspiration. Taylor, did you watch for us? I did not. My friend,

it came out, I just checked, 2004 to 2010. And so it started like near the beginning of my high school, ended like sophomore year of college or so. And my buddy Rob was obsessed with it. And when I decided I might actually take, like dip my toe in the Lost Pond.

It was probably 2009, 2009, in 2010. And he was like, don't even bother, dude. They don't answer anything. Don't waste your time. He told me the same thing about prison break. And so I've never seen an episode of either show. He was like, both of them stunk. They were awesome in the first couple seasons because you still have those questions hanging over your head of potential satisfaction. And then, no, didn't pan out. So I've never seen it. Next weird question for you guys. Let's go even beyond the fantasy, which with with lust, it's outside of

sci-fi. That's, that's fantasy. They're, you know, whatever. Is that your phone dinging? Yeah. Can you, uh, can you put it on mute? I can throw it on. It's coming through a little tinny. Give me one second.

I'm going to throw it outside. Yeah, no problem. No problem. I mean, you got to check that. It's like three different things. Bebitt-b-b-bip. Wow. What's a code going on.

if I ignore a text like that'll happen but when they start paying me six in a row I'm like who's dying it's not even stopping because my freaking messenger is linked to my phone you know I use all these unholy Mac products but I just won't respond and they'll they'll shut up um to get into even more crazy territory beyond fantasy and I have a I have a reason to say this and I'll cover it at the end. Thoughts on the Walking Dead. I'm an expert in this show. We're experts on the Walking Dead.

As much as Star Trek was central like TV for my childhood, the Walking Dead was very central to like my mid-20s or whatever it was. My girlfriend and I were obsessed. We would go to Walking Dead viewing parties. We were immersed in it fully. And I,

I still think that it is, if you can, if I could edit out some episodes and give somebody the proper way to watch it and maybe remove some of the fat off season two where they just sit around that farmhouse for far too long. And like, I think it is just some of the best TV that there's been for the first five seasons roughly. I thought that they, when they got to Negan, they had clearly struck gold and they just drug it out for far too long for ratings. and then they started doing like multiple seasons within, thank you, dragged it out for way too long. And they were doing multiple seasons within like every season. And it was just ridiculous. And they would have these machine gun fights with Negan that were silly.

And frankly, when they killed Karloff, Woody Love shows where everyone is at danger. No one has plot armor. Otherwise it gets boring. And I always knew Captain Picard wasn't going to die. But that didn't ruin it for me. But I do see where he's coming from. So, but when they killed Carl off, I was kind of done.

And when Rick left, I was double done. Yeah, it would, it, they made a mistake when they killed off coral and also Rick Ryan. Well, they didn't kill him off. He just went back. For all intents and purposes, he seemed dead. Yeah. Yeah. Now you, Woody.

What's your thing? All right. So you, what you might not know, I'm a walking dead expert. I have an autistic son who's obsessed with walking dead. I face a barrage of 15, 20 minutes, a worth of walking dead trivia. every single day. It is aggressive. Like,

you don't remember who Herschel is. I'm like, I definitely remember who Herschel is. The veterinarian who on the farm, he was Maggie's and best father. I liked Herschel. Because everyone was Herschel, I liked Herschel.

Yeah, yeah. Like, the first time I watched Walking Dead, I was like, all right, this is a fun show. I kind of like it.

I really like the, you know, how's Rick going to get out of this tank? All he has is like a maid and he's a dumb ass or whatever. Like, that was cool. Upon rewatching it,

I got to explore some other characters a little bit more. Like Shane, the first time I saw it, was the bad guy, and Dale was the good guy. Dale is the older guy with the RV for people who don't have an encyclopedic walking dead memory. Anyway, Dale's always doing the guy with the fishing hat. Yeah. I was like, okay, that's what drew me into that first season. And as they were driving towards the CDC and all that. And I was like, holy shit, this is good.

Dale's morals were purses. were perfect. He always did the right thing, right? Shane's morals. And he thought about it, but he was also not afraid to sit on top of his RV and sniper, you know, sniper if he had to. Let me develop this thought. So Dale's morals were always perfect. Shane's morals were always bad, selfish, terrible. And the first watching, you're like, all right, Dale's the good guy, Shane's the bad guy. They were human. But the thing is, You get to realize that Dale's perfect morals were a luxury that they couldn't really have.

You know, for example, when Sophia, who's the daughter, who I think Carol was watching or something like that, got lost in season two. And it turns out she was in the barn all along with all the other walkers. Everyone just pretended Sophia was probably still alive. Yeah, there's a five-year-old living in a wood filled with zombies. Like, let's just keep looking for her, right? And Shane is like, let's leave this fucking little bitch behind. She's surely dead. Hold on.

This bitch is dead. Let's get out of here. Why are we risking all the living people over this dead little bitch? It was obvious to me, though, from the very start, that's what they were going to find. They were going to find that she turned and that was that. And I'm like, all right. It was obvious to everybody. And Shane had the cahones to say, let's stop putting ourselves at risk on these daily walkabouts amongst the zombies.

and then you have Dale saying, no, let's do the right thing. And I kind of like the way that the show juxtaposed the two extremes. The one guy who, I forget the name of the fat guy who shot the deer through and through and hit Carl, which is why they went to get fixed. Yeah. And so Shane and the fat guy go out to get the medicine that they need, maybe anesthesia or something so that they can operate on Carl and fix his leg. And what does Shane do?

Well, when they're surrounded by zombies, he shoots the fat guy. guy leaves him there as bait and returns with the medicine. Oh yeah. That was sick. Yeah. You might say, oh my God, what an asshole. And I see what you're coming from. But listen, shit needs to get done. The other option was for both of them to die and Carl to die too. So Shane's making tough decisions, but they're not nice decisions. And you can't you feel you. You don't need nice decision. This guy, I had to look his face up. So I knew the Garrett, because I'm not as, you know, walking dead as these two. But this guy, Dale Horvath, the guy wearing the fucking fishing cap all the time,

he's a douchebag because he's superimposing his need to feel moral at the end of his life over the need for everyone else to survive. Where he's like, we need to actually be like really moral and like play this out. And it's like, hey, boomer, that's not how shit works anymore. everyone here will die if we follow your nambi pambi horse shit doctrine of what makes a good person

shame is fucking his best friend's wife like nine days into the zombie apocalypse I have to sympathize with Dale Horvath because guys I'm I'm five years away from the fishing hat it's fair we all are but you'd have a little more realism because I remember

I feel like I remember scenes where there was even like clear zombie walking towards their camper. And everyone was like, look at that ghoul. It's got meat in its mouth. And then he's like, hold up. She might still be in there. Or like some horse shit that he was saying.

I didn't like him. I thought he was fun until he started causing problems. That's part of the show is letting go of the old world, you know. Let me put a, let me put a spin on this. Oh, yeah. Now, I loved The Walking Dead. I was totally into it as really fine TV series. Really, really fine.

I even enjoyed the spinoffs, you know, and there was, and I loved the character development of blah, blah, blah. But the thing is, I thought, you know, because again, you know, my day job is a sci-fi author, right? Well, probably day job as a YouTuber, but still. Anyway, I thought, What would I do in this situation if I were stuck in a zombie apocalypse? And I thought, harking to the past, because if you build Constantinople with the walls,

declare yourself emperor of it, keep only humans in there. Zombies can't get in. They can't get past those giant walls, you know. And you could build fences like the prison where you have agricultural stuff going. you've won this because you will rebuild civilization with you as the emperor, you know. Yeah, they'd probably poison me within months. But anyway, it seemed like something that you could get. Taylor would be my royal taster.

I'm stuck because Alexandria did that. The Hilltap did that. The saviors did that. The guy with the time whose name escapes me did that. there were a bunch of civilizations with walls who put those things up and they didn't hold what you're also doing is you're saying hey everyone there's some wealth and food in here come attack this is well yeah but that also worked with constantinople and the the ottoman turks um but what i my favorite character actually from the walking dead the one that i actually

if it's not glen you're wrong but i'm listening the governor Which one? Which one is that? Really, the governor. He was a bad guy who ran a city, much like he says. But he also did experiments on zombies with the end goal of trying to unzombie his daughter, who they kept like caged up. I wouldn't you do that? I mean, remember, rehearsal was keeping them all in a barn.

Yeah, true. Oh, no, this guy made sense. like yeah he was trying to figure something out and sure he was mentally ill I wouldn't say he was being with the daughter right Kyle also please excuse the fact that I don't remember a ton about this show I've only watched it once and I was half I was like doing a kettlebell shit while I was watching the show so I wasn't doing a ton of paying attention

but that is how it goes like if he's running a little society and these frankly terrorists show up and start causing problems to a somewhat functional society within the confines of this post-apocalyptic world, then they are evil. How many children died because the main guy, the main cowboy guy, Rick, before, like, while he's trying to conquer the city, how many innocents died, how many people lost access to food because he had to be the guy? if anything, it's it's literally around.

It's literally around where Rick was like, we can live together. It ain't got to be like this. But I've got to be in charge. That's the important. If I recall correctly, at the end of season two and into season three, Rick found a prison.

And he's like, you know what? We'd have to clear out a lot of walkers. But this would be a nice place for us to bunker down and just avoid all the hell that is outside these prison walls. And Governor Fuckface shows up with the tank and kills the people in the prison and that's Taylor's good guy. I don't, you know what, Woody?

I don't remember that. I don't remember that. I just remember, I just remember every single strong man they ran into was running a semi-functional simulacrum of what would have been a society back in the day. And what they achieve every time is upsetting that equilibrium. killing countless people via that upsetting of the equilibrium and the food processing and then going about their way. They are terrorists. You know, from the outside looking in, all that's kind of accurate.

Rick's group bounces from semi-stable society to semi-stable society kills them all and moves along to the next one. They are fucking Boko Haram in the post-U. Apocalypse. They are going around causing problems for people who have set up. And if you're so retarded that you think that in the post apocalypse, they're going to set up neoliberal progressive it. You're retarded. Oh my God. You're setting up. You're retarded. You don't even know what you're talking about. Tell me what was the example of Rick going into a stable society. Was it the one where they had all the signs saying come to my stable society will feed you. We love you terminus. How about this? Wait, wait, wait. I'm talking. And then it. it turns out they're cannibals that were luring them there so they could eat Rick and his friends, or was at the time that Aaron recruited them and said, hey, we have this great city, Alexandria, we just need more residents. Would you come and join us? Was that the time he went and upset the stable society? Like, was it Negan who was dominating the other societies around them, stealing the governor and Negan, definitely, yeah, raising the rent, the rent, which was like, so we have these

farmers who are growing food. And then you have Negan who's providing no value all, for mafia style protection. No, he's a strong man to protect those individuals on the outside. He didn't protect them. He was the only threat. That's like saying the mafia is protecting. You know who the mafia protects you from? The mafia.

Like they're not hurting you because you pay them off. That's what Negan's deal was. I, and again, you know so much more about the show. I can't compete with you in the knowledge, in the knowledge realm. But the fact that he went into where the governor was,

went into where Negan was, And by all accounts, Negan was running a self-sufficient, surviving society. It wasn't self-sufficient. Oh, but it relied on what? Rades to outside forces, to procure out.

That's what all society has been forever. And the idea that these guys come in, upset everything, and then leave, and they don't maintain that level. Like, basically they were walking into neo-feudalism. destroying it and then leaving going

we're heroes and it's like no there's tons of people who are going to starve and die because of their ridiculous and from Rick's perspective narcissistic behavior

because he couldn't handle Rick could not handle being in charge everywhere he showed up remember what Rick said he's like this isn't a democracy anymore it's a rick tatorship it's a rig tatership

and by the way I only remember curse me amounts about the show. I have strong beliefs about it. But that just makes sense to me. It's like you walk into a feudal lordship and you have

these 20-20 ideas of liberalism where you're like what? You're not even nice to the gays and it's like a couple of fish to fry, motherfucker. There's this. I'm just, I'm having fun.

I want to see the show you've been watching. They were. That's silly billy stuff to think. think that they are going to come in, conquer it, and then maintain that equilibrium, because everywhere they came and then left was left a shithole. I think in an actual zombie apocalypse, there'd be so much, if it happened the way it happens in the Walking Dead, where seemingly everyone got very sick and died and turned into zombies very quickly, there's just so much food here.

I know that all the perishables would perish, but there's just such a mountain of fucking canned food in this country. I think that there's an infinite supply of SpaghettiOs for us. I think our grandchildren would be eating SpaghettiOs. Yeah, there are people that have YouTube careers eating 60-year-old canned food. Like a rock. I don't think we're going to run out anytime soon. But what I miss about the Walking Dead during a state aid there is being able to randomly walk around my house.

And you hear your girlfriend doing something and you're like, girl. and yeah, go back and forth and I miss that. I miss the, I miss the zeitgeist of these shows.

And I think that we don't have that right now, really. We don't. I feel like we're between dominant medias, right? You know what we need is like

all the zombie shows so far have this little underlying through line of like, you know, who the real bad guys are, the other people. And it's like, let's have a zombie show where it's like, no, the bad guys are the people trying to eat us all the time. And if there's a little fiefdom over there, we don't need to

fuck with them that regularly. Maybe we can create an alliance with that little fiefdom, that little tiny little city. And we can destroy everyone in our area. And then we have more crop area. We have more generative potential. How about marriage? marrying it to this. All right. What about it? You know, zombie apocalypse stuff always has issues as far as hard science goes. But say, for example, you incorporate nanotechnology that can control people's minds,

and you suddenly have a hard science way to depict a zombie apocalypse as being a product of nanotechnology, perhaps extraterrestrial nanotechnology. and you could present a credible way, not magic zombies, you know, that just appear in McGuffins, but something that actually could happen in principle and then put that character developing framework in place for that, where it's so believable that I think that could be a lot more terrifying than any other zombie, anything ever done. thoughts generally. Pluribus has the hive mine scenario. That's somewhat similar, but they're all, they're so benevolent seeming, you know,

and sort of like, hey, we know this is a, this must be weird, you know, and it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's very different. I've always liked the idea of it being sort of a rage virus or a, a spinoff of rabies of some kind that that that would explain the zombies um my problem has always been like the durability and the long lasting nature of the zombies like those walking dead zombies would have just rotted away like i i know y'all live in missouri i'm in georgia there's stuff in the woods that would just eat you if you were walking around covered in rotting flesh like like even here i feel like they just get eaten up there'd be buzzards pecking them all the time and like raccoons

running up taking a little chunk out of their thighs like bears would get bigger. They'd be very sinister. And then also, like, I never see anyone really employing cold. Like, if you move up to where it's always frozen, then they just can't come there. They would be frozen. I fantasized about zombie apocalypse defense scenarios when I was like 19 and 20. Whenever I watched the Walking Dead, not the Walking Dead, the Dawn of the Dead, the remake of

Donovan's Dead that came out in like 2004. I loved that. Is that the one where they go to the mall? It's the one where they go to the mall. Yeah. And my cousin and I are watching that and I'm like, we'd last way longer. We'd last you way longer.

I'm much better shot than him, by the way. I wouldn't have been his reticent about shooting Rosie O'Donnell down there. Wasn't that one of the things where they're like, that's Rosie O'Donnell? I don't remember what celebrity it was. But they first they shot Jay Leno and then it was like, oh, there's Rosie O'Donnell. Yeah.

It was one of those. Which didn't make any sense because they're in Milwaukee. Why were those celebrities there? They're fucking quick. Kyle, there's one thing that astounds me about Georgia. Over the last 50 years, going between Missouri and Florida and back and forth and all that, good God, Atlanta grew. Holy crap.

And that's the land of the Walking Dead. That's where it's filmed. You know, it's like the new Hollywood at this point because, you know, the state of Georgia actually knows what it's doing. What are your thoughts about that? How long have you been in Georgia? Always. It doesn't surprise you.

So I've always been here. I've been living in Atlanta for 10 years or so. And I lived about an hour and a half, two hours outside of my whole life. So we frequently, you know, come out here to go to six flags and ballgames and stuff. It has absolutely grown, but it's grown out rather than grown up necessarily. and the suburbs keep getting bigger and the downtown district keeps expanding. The traffic has always been a nightmare.

But I really do like that so much stuff is filmed here. I recognize our streets in so many movies and TV shows. I lived in Griffin, Georgia for a little while, which is that's the main place they shot The Walking Dead. So I'd see Rick like up against the back of a building with this pitch, like, all right, we're going to go in there. Carl, you go to the lift. And I'm like, that's right.

next to where I get vapes. Coral, you go to the left and make sure not to lose your eye. Didn't work. No eyes open, boy. Wait, Walking Dead is... I gave you my hat. You screwed it up by getting your eyes shot out.

Is Walking Dead to be placed in Georgia? Okay. Yeah. I couldn't recall. Yeah, said in Georgia filmed in Georgia. It's pretty good. You know, I saw the most apocalyptic thing, even worse in Missouri,

and I'm a goddamn tornado. alley, but it was in Georgia, somewhere in central Georgia, where a tornado had gone through and tore through woods and just totally defoliated everything. And you could see the path from the highway. And yeah, but I would live in Georgia. I sort of like that. I'm more southern than I am northern. I got nothing about it. Nothing wrong to say about Georgia. Great football team here. Great football team here. Great football team here, though. I'm saying. Mizzu is. Football team is here. Mizzu, yes, but we also have the Cardinals.

We've got the Cardinals. We've got the Blues. We got the Blues. Then we got the Royals and the Chiefs. Yeah, well, that's over on the other side of the state. And the AMA murders. Have you mentioned the Hammond murders? The one that we're salty about. And I'm salty about it and we'll be forever as the Rams. I mean, that was gay.

of them. How much did we spend on a gigantic stadium only for that to happen? And it happened twice. Remember the football cardinals? Jesus. Only for Cronky to move him away at the last second. What a piece of shit. And he still owns like the Colorado Avalanche and the L.A. Rams and some basketball team. And I think maybe even part of another football team. Kronky has his fingers in too many pies. I don't like him. Yeah. It's disappointing. But at least we still have our cardinals and, you know, the historic things. But they're degraded. You know, look at the Anheuser-Busch. It's in dev now. You know, it's a multinational whatever. And it's just, you know. It's not what it was.

Even the tours now aren't as cool because you used to be able to go on those crazy tours of the AB facilities in St. Louis where you could see all the brewing houses, all this and that. And now it's not even here. much. Like, they still have the brewing here, but it does suck. Like, yeah, that Belgian company bought us. It's not the old St. Louis. It's not the old St. Louis. Yeah. St. Louis fucking sucks now. The city itself, the city proper is fucking horrible. Oh, you know, we're there. Um, and I'm just like, where do I want to move? You know, so that's the next question. Guys, if you were to stay in the United States, where do you want to move. What city would you most want to live in? Do you value? So here's some things that vary,

obviously. Obviously, there's a couple places where you avoid the state income taxes. That can be nice. Places like Tennessee and Florida and maybe Nevada, whatever. Marijuana laws are important for some people. I don't know if that applies to you, but Missouri's- I live in Missouri, so it's totally everything's legal. Yeah, we're about more here. Not Georgia, though. That's kind of my point. And then firearms. Like if you're into firearms, if you, if you- It's Missouri. It's, It's everywhere. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaking of that, like, I think the ATF has stopped enforcing tax stamps on suppressors and short-barreled rifles. I, they already lowered the price you paid $5 for the tax stamp. But I think now they're saying, we're washing our hands of this whole thing. Go buy a suppressor if you want one. Zach, find a map of that suppressor shit of what state is going along with it, what states aren't. But you're right. Like if I were to pick That's not federal, Taylor?

There are a couple federal, there are no, I thought it was state because now I know in Missouri at least I can buy a same-day suppressor. That's what I'm talking about. I think that's everywhere. So I think what would change is if there is a waiting period in some states

because a background check is instantaneous. Like I've ran background checks before for selling firearms. It's probably being by being by of boom, you know. The waiting period is usually a state mandated thing. So maybe that applies in some places if you want to buy a suppressor. But that's new. That just has changed. I don't see what if you were to ban a suppressor like that, what does it do? What do you mean? What effect would a law like that have? It doesn't stop pulling the trigger.

you know well you know it it stops there from being suppressor stores in your state selling them legally and stuff it makes every suppressor and illegal i mean practicality and as a matter of law is like well okay does it stop the crime no does it deter the crime i can't see how it would um and sometimes you just have to throw your arms up restricting it just seems to fuck with like hobbyists who are really into it Yeah, well, that's the other thing is that if you're a, if you're, you know, in a crack house or whatever and you're in a shootout, you probably don't even know or need to do that. In St. Louis, how many gunshots, if you're in North St. Louis, how many gunshots do you hear a night? Plenty. Don't you wish all those gangsters had suppressors had cut down on the numbers? We're all pro-gun here. So we see suppressors and we think, oh, this is just a thing that makes guns quieter.

They seem like band-aids, you know, band-aid laws, you know. You hear about suppressors and think, oh, this is the tool of an assassin, right? Yeah, this allows people to pop them in the head and then walk out of the hotel undiscovered. Yeah, but look at what's happened. Look, we all watched in horror, you know, Charlie Kirk getting shot, right? Sure. Yeah, no silence are there. No silence are there.

just they fucked up and let a guy get up on a roof in a position that he shouldn't have been, you know, shouldn't have been allowed, you know. How about we target that first, you know, how law enforcement looks at, you know, how these things can happen. And I am the most nonviolent person on earth, you know, I don't want anybody harmed, right? but there is practicality. And ultimately, I think that they make laws like this to feel good about themselves, you know, like that. But they don't do anything. Yeah, that's totally ineffectual.

Yeah, I like suppressors. I think they're cool. I like short-rolled rifles, too. I think they're cool. I can't even imagine the level of surveillance it would require to make sure that no one ever had a position where they could shoot someone, right? Like I'm thinking of the guy that just used the bump stocks to mow down crowds of country music in Vegas, maybe.

And I know bump stocks are different than silencers, but what I'm saying is the whole idea of like, we allowed a person to rent a room on the 19th floor where he could oversee, well, I mean, that's not preventable. Yeah. And then that guy, through some sort of wizardry,

shot more bullets than could be shot, from a gun of that size being helped. It's pretty crazy. Wow. He must have tuned it up. Wait, where did that come from? I thought he had like 12 guns or something, and he just sort of put one down and went to the next and boom, boom, boom.

I'm more being a dickhead. There's a lot of conspiracy theories about that day. There's a lot of conspiracies about that day and about why it hasn't been uncovered or researched in the light. You think he was a Manchurian candidate sent to go after country music? May haps. I don't think he was going after country music. Oh. He was going after.

Well, he was clearly going after country music fans. Like that goes out saying because he was the day the music died. He was spraying in there. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. Yeah, but it goes back even further than that. You guys remember what was Diamond Dave, you know, the guitarist that was shot 30 years ago on stage. And it's, you can't fix that with laws because there are freaking crazy people, you know.

Yeah. And we live in a country that has multiple guns for every person, the cat's out of the bag, you know. And it's more like, why don't we focus on treating mental health, you know, and things like that to prevent these kinds of things. We need another police force. the problem is I watch a lot of police shooting videos like probably too many probably probably

not probably way too many way too many it's taking a chip away from my soul a little bit and and you know if someone's having a mental episode where they're just like holding a knife

and they're hollering a lot man unless you really want them to die don't call the cops because that's what's coming you just called two fucking guys with itchy trigger fingers and 30 round magazine They're coming. But what do you do if you think that loon is about to potentially shoot you?

I'll tell you what I do. So I've seen in, I don't know what Asian country, but they have these like dog catcher poles that are, but they're human size. And they sort of wrap around the guy and then they like grab him. Like you're grabbing a hot potato out of the oven. And they, when they loop two of them around the guy from different directions,

he's like completely incapacitated. And I'm telling you, the nature of the pole is, that like you'd have a hard time like getting to the guy holding the pole he'd be poking you with the pole i don't know why we don't have some guys with those poles but we don't be in the pole luxury i feel like if you put a pole around me and sort of lock me like at the biceps and up from the elbow down i still have all sort of my shooting facilities am i missing something shooting for sure this is for like knife guys no this is like this is a solution in states like Singapore which

uses this exactly what you're describing, where they know there are no guns. But in societies where there could be guns, it's not quite that easy. It is because a lot of times the call is he's got a knife. The guy will be standing in the open and he's got, remember that Mexican lady that looked like the maid from family guy they shot in New York the other day? No, do not shoot. Oh, that big fat lady that like ran with a knife. She had a knife in each hand and she was clearly disturbed and she was going like, stab, I'm going to stab you.

And she sort of like hustled toward the police and they like, they killed her, you know? Look at this video over here of these people using these man grabbing like contraptions. Is that viable in a country that has guns? Yes, when the person has a knife. Like this is for, there is, I've seen so many times where they're like, she's in there and she has a knife. well we can't go in there she has this is an exercise this isn't a real this isn't remotely real to me can we watch it again this is fucking fantasy the first guy puts one on his waist the device doesn't do anything to remove it from

this waste the next guy puts it on maybe his chest or his neck and he voluntarily lays down and submits that look at it's not taking it off you cry this in try this in fucking Georgia Kyle you've got a bunch of prospective SEC running backs causing problems. I don't buy this is real. I don't think that's real. This is not real.

This is an exercise. This is a police exercise. I wasn't meant to be real. It's a demonstration. I was just trying to show you the tool. What I got from that demonstration is it only works if the, like, bad guy, it cooperates. Yeah. And that's a terrible deterministic factor for a tool that's useful in stopping someone who doesn't

want to be stopped. Well, guns. He's waving a gun around in there and they're all holding their fucking sticks. Again, again, you don't have like a group of stick police. They also have guns. The gun is the last resort. You just give them something

between gun and no gun. I mean, do you think that's that's how most lunatics are going to behave is lay down quietly and and hope they don't have a gun. Six are four.

Let me ask you this. Me and you have those sticks and that Mexican lady with the two knives in each and in New York. That Mexican lady's there and she won't put the knives down. You know that me and you can power her to the ground with those sticks and make her do whatever we want. Because of the implication alone, Taylor. Maybe, but maybe we don't get the sticks up fast enough

and she like stabs some other person because we can't stop her. Well, with the leverage. I don't understand how they do it, but the cowboys that can rope a cow's leg that, however they do that, that I catch a bad guy.

Oh, so we need some cow, we need some ropers. We need some rangers. And then you see some criminal with all four limbs tied up in the middle of the street. I would love to see a cop just leaning up against the, you know, quickie mark gas station,

keeping everyone in line doing tricks. You know, high low high low you don't have to fuck around at that gas station that'd be good I don't think that's going to work doing the circle by his feet

he hops in he hops that'd be dope back and forth yeah I don't know I think we just to John's point we're just too

far past the goalie on this one like we just have too many guns you have to be serious when you're stopping a criminal in the U.S. because you don't know if they're going to have a gun. Whereas if you're in Singapore What are you talking about? If you're in Singapore, you can do this goofy ass

like hold them down with long fucking Why can't you have a pole in the back of your car though for when it's clearly a disturbed teenager with a pocket knife? Because I'm going to get shot in the head while I'm extending my pole out. He doesn't have a gun. It is a disturbed 14 year old in a parking lot with a pocket knife. And he's waving

it around. Now who's inventing scenarios. I can find a video of it. I can find a video of them gunning down a disturbed 14 year old in a parking lot with a pocket knife. I've seen it. Or I can just show you that Mexican lady that you told me you saw. The poll would have been perfect for her. That was correct though because she had previously murdered someone with a knife and was running around with two knives in her hand and they put her down. Well, it's not eye for an eye here. It's, it's taken them into custody as well as you can. I for an eye would have been that they shot her to death in that moment. It wasn't I doing that.

I was thinking about the pole and I'm like, I didn't love the pole as a tool. I felt like it's easily escapable. But I like the taser. Why do you like the pole more than the taser? Taser doesn't work. The taser almost never works. The taser. But a long pole will.

Yeah. See, I'm learning something. I thought Taser is more effective. You fruit. So in all these videos you watch, the tasers often fail. Yeah, they fail probably 40, 50% of the time at least. Especially the traditional X23 or whatever it's called that has one, you pull the trigger and it goes pop and it shoots two probes out and the further way the target, the further

the probe spread. You have one shot essentially because none of them seem very Johnny on the spot about being able to reload that thing. You have to pull the cartridge out the front, retrieve a new cartridge, plug it in. And meanwhile, you clearly were dealing with someone who was crazed or thrashing anyway because you're deploying a taser. The new tasers, I think it's nine or 12 shots or something, and you can go semi-automatic.

And all you need is two of them to hit. So it's pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. You can literally do that. And it's shooting them with, I mean, it's not like an airsoft gun or something like that where you can sting somebody across the parking lot. But if you're in, if you're 12, 15, 20 feet from them, you're going to get them. Like, those work a lot better. But anybody, like, anybody with a coat or, like, thick clothing,

or if they're moving around too much, Or if it's just a big guy and you don't get perfect connection between like a shoulder and a thigh. Because the further the probes are, that's making all that tissue between those two probes convulsing and immobilizing them. So if you've got one in their ass and one in their shoulder, it locks their whole body up. But if they're right next to each other, then you're just. Same butt cheek. That just is uncomfortable. Now he doesn't have a left butt cheek. Good luck in the fight. I'm going to need more help than that.

Yeah, they just, I'm glad that they have them. But if I had to be a cop, like, I would know that this thing is going to work half the time. Would you want to be, if you're a cop, do you want to be deployed with a firearm? Or do you want to be deployed with a really long shower rod that you can enact? Is it or in your scenario that you've invented? It is, isn't it? The scenario I've invented, you have both. and so you have to get out that little gadget from sliders and go to an alternate reality

no i'm saying that your reality is that you have this long pull and then you fail to hold someone down who has two knives it's in the trunk of my car so we're pulling up to a call oh my son he's he's uh he's he's he's drank too much he's out the yard with a pocket knife and he's gay and he's yelling and i get there's a there's a chelby 15 year old and he's out there with a with a swiss army knife and he's spinning in circles saying go away from me i want my real mom. Now, I do have my taser in my gun, but I also, I have my pole in the trunk of the car. Hang on a second. Hold on. Give me 15 minutes while I assemble my pole. Telescopes. Like you're cleaning a pool. I fucking pull it out. Now I got my pole.

I'm like, Taylor, you got your pole? You're like, no, polls are lame. Then you kill the kid and you get sued. You lose your qualified immunity. You're eating cat food the rest of your life. I can't even be a cop anymore. So, no. Here it is. I get the call. I'm a cop, right? It's a crazed Taylor. Strong as a fucking ox, 20 inch biceps. I get out my pole, right? Try to hold Taylor. Taylor rips the pole from my hands and says, now I have it. I said, you dumb fuck, that was worthless all along.

I popped to his chest. And then he would, and then he would kill me as he should if I lost my mind. And told you, you thought this thing was worth a shit. And 100% if Woody has some weird pole, holding me and I'm still and I'm still at large I'm grabbing that pole getting a

good perch I'm tearing that out of his hands yeah he has no chance and then he's gonna have to go he's gonna have to wipe tears from his eyes as he puts me down like a dog like old the LR. Yeah but you know how wrong

I'm probably wrong I don't know what I'm talking about I've never polled anybody well no it doesn't matter what he were on the winning side because we don't need facts we have numbers yeah telling you you're going to want one these polls is that what that would be where it worked Kyle how would you like that if next time a uGA player was going 140 miles an hour through a residential area they pulled them out and they just held them down at polls hey first of all my boys live for speed okay on the field off the field they got practice to get too

they're driving 140 traffic should fucking get out of the way okay number one team in the nation number one team in the until until they face the true Titan Missouri

Missouri is that much up on yourself Missouri no Missouri all the consonant okay all right and the vowel nice you need the vowel yeah so I have decided to rewrite my will

okay okay and on my tombstone, I want the following words. They put them down like old yellow. And that's all. It's just you laying in a bed asking your

like grandchild to shoot you in the head like you have to do it. You're grabbing them down. Yeah. Don't wuss out on this. You got to. Another thing before you pull the trigger, this is going to really fuck you up. You're going to remember this forever.

All the resale value of this place is going to suck after this. Good luck, so. All right, gentlemen. Last question I have. Okay. Is this. Do you believe that the universe could be a simulation? Oh, yeah.

I think it is a simulation. No. I think it adds a layer of... I think that the quantum weirdness, things like the slit experiment. and then just everything that Philip K. Dick ever said has convinced me that we're living in and just that

you know I've heard it said that if there are simulations if there are alien civilizations and if alien civilizations and if alien civilizations do make simulations then the odds are that we are in a simulation much more than we're in a real reality. So yeah, I believe in simulations

and I think we're in one and I'm pretty sure I'm the main character and y'all are the NPCs but that's just my own little mental issues. No, I think You were the main character your team was created to explain

what we couldn't explain yet. And more recently, the simulation was created for that same reason. So no. I think that someday we will get to the bottom of the things we don't yet understand

and it's not a simulation. I think the simulation thing seems like an attempt to explain something that's hyper-complex with an even more complex addendum. Where it's like,

not only is this a, are we living in a simulation, but there is a hyper competent, hyper-complex, hyper-intelligent species of being that is running it. And now you're...

It sounds like what I said, but different. Right. Yeah, and so it's just... It's literally going... Adding an unnecessary step of hyper-complexity before you eventually do inevitably run into like,

well, then some sort of God. or something like you always get hung on that crux of the simulation theory like it it has nothing to do with how the universe came to be that's not the question that's trying to answer it's it's going in a different direction they don't necessarily care how the universe came to be whether the big bang was is cyclical or if we're all in a black hole or if it's universe after universe they don't care about that it it's more about the the philosophical notion that we're in a simulation and the likelihood of it being so and then the weirdness that we can't explain with quantum effects that don't make sense and seem like what you would get from a simulation. But it's just not efficient in its explanation where it's like saying that like, no, no, no, we weren't created by a God figure that we can't understand. We were created by a series of beings that had a godlike influence on us. And then it's like, okay, well, then what created those things?

No, it could literally be us in 500 years running an ancestor simulation, them running a simulation of their own universe and seeing what their ancestors were like and how they evolved. It could literally be that. It doesn't have to be Klingons somewhere with some like category three civilization. What's the use case? What's the use case of a hyper-complex being? Maybe it's their version of a soap opera. That is us a million years from now. Maybe it's their version of a soap opera. Maybe it's their version of a soap opera. Maybe it's their version of maybe it's an exhibit in a museum that you walk past. Do you see how this is just adding a needless layer of complexity before an eventual god figure? No, because I don't care how the universe that the creators are in began or how this one began. It's all about this one not you should. Why would you not play it back? Except the question that's being asked or answered. You're going off on, you care about that, but that has nothing to do with the simulation theory

at all, not even a little bit. I think it does. I think it has everything to do with the simulation theory. It's not answer. The question isn't how the universe began. That's not what the simulation theory is answering. Is this universe tangibly real? There is at the bottom, clearly, a real universe somewhere. It's just saying that we might be a...

Is it clear? Or could it all be simulatory? Someone has to make the simulation. And who is? What do you mean who is? Like who is making that simulation? and who created the individuals making. I don't care who created them.

The only way you can express it is the turtle at the bottom of the heat. It's all. Sure. Can you help me understand that? What is the turtle at the bottom of the heat? Turtles all the way down. So it used to be believed that the world rested on the back of a turtle, and that turtle was on the back of another turtle.

And it was turtles all the way down. You need to find the first turtle. that's all you can do because you will never never answer the question of a simulator or a god because whatever it is it's supernatural above nature therefore you cannot measure that sure so therefore you have no way to answer that question so there you are personally i like the idea. Guys, there's also something going on here. Apparently, Elon Musk and Tesla released a demonstration of a flying car.

Apparently, they can make Tesla's fly. Look it up, look it up, look it up, just go to Yahoo News or something you'll see. But the thing is that you cannot prove the metaphysical, but you cannot disprove it either. but you cannot disprove it either. So therefore, you always wonder about it. That is your destiny, you know, in life. I wonder, and my favorite theory is that we are the fever dream of a Boltzmann brain in an empty universe, and it's hallucinating us.

I hope not. Good as any other theory, though. You know, we can never prove any of it. Talk amongst yourselves. No, that's interesting. Why would, hmm? Yeah, the Boltzman brain theory is essentially that it is more likely that we are the fever dream of a brain that literally just popped into existence through the convergence of,

I suppose. That's correct. But I think that there is something poetic there that we are living in fever dream. What is that popped into existence thing? Help me understand that. That it's more likely that a brain literally just came. into existence by like enough atoms hitting randomly and converging than it is that we came to being as we actually did through this long series of evolutionary and cosmic

loopholes. Yeah, that sounds stupid. That it just randomly. Well, if you have infinite time, then everything that is possible must happen. But it would be finite time that led to this, correct? because it does it. No, we don't know. We don't know because we don't know what time is and we don't know what time is in an alternate universe that's empty. So say you have an infinite time universe that isn't this one that has nothing in it. And a Boltzmann brain randomly appears. You know, that was Lithuan that came up with that. And man, my shit's getting blown up about this goddamn Tesla flying car. I don't even care. about it but um you end up with a brain a thinking brain at least transiently that can simulate the universe right so you're it can think it up because it has nothing else to do

in that it's trapped it's in a blackness you know and it just appears simulates this universe and the blink of an eye and then it dissipates in infinity in infinity that is going to eventually happen because it's possible. You know, random quantum fluctuations and things like that will eventually produce something. You know, if you have infinite time. And that's the idea. So with that contention and just help me understand would be that we live within the neural confines of that being's mind? Yes, but there is no time constraint because it may have dreamed the entire universe in a second before it dissipated.

We don't know. You can't rule it out, basically. And if you accept that infinity of that flavor actually exists. Yeah. It just sounds so sci-fi in that way. It sounds to me the same way that if Kyle told me like the Hellraiser might meet you in your dreams tonight where it's all okay. Well, I can't just prove that. I'd be okay with meat and pinhead.

The one I don't want is that that one with all the cuts on its face where it was like judging you in a farmhouse. Yeah, he was mean. I didn't like him. I was like, oh, I don't want to mean that. Was he the remake or whatever? Was he the one that was like questioning the child molester? He had the big leather.

He goes up and eats your testimony and then barfs it out. Yes. And it's like, yeah, no thank you. That was really dark. Yeah, that was. really dark. Yeah. And that's why I'm trying to get you, or Kyle, I guess you've read everything other than

the Scarlet. Yeah, I think so. I've got all that on audio book. Read the Scarlet Gospel. You'll like it. Okay. Solid. He's such a ghoul.

Clive Barker is a disgusting guy based on what he's written for the Hellraiser series. I mean, but he's also awesome. Have you ever read Jurassic Park? It's a horror movie. I did not even know that was a book. Okay, well, Michael Crichton wrote Jurassic Park, and it's a horror novel. It is very gory and gruesome. It's scary.

Unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately, I guess, in an alternate reality, see, this is what I would do with interdimensional travel. If there are infinite earths, I don't care about going to the one where, like, the Nazis won or whatever. I mean, we'll retire there. Don't get me wrong, but I want to go to the one where... Yeah, who cares. where like different actors or directors got movies.

Like I want to see like Jurassic Park, but it got a horror director. I want to see like James Cameron's Jurassic Park. You want to see Kubrick alive and not killed because he faked the movie. I want to see the real cut of eyes wide shut where he pulls the curtain back on the whole Epstein pedophile ring. Oh, I think it was more than that. Yeah.

Because it wouldn't have been Epstein at the time. It would have been some other guy. Epstein's predecessor, you know, you know, whoever was running the Mossade at the time. time, I don't know. You ever wonder what hors d'oeuvres they were serving in eyes wide shut? Like, what food was available around there? Something like, because you're about to throw a fuck into somebody.

You know, I'm thinking... But it shouldn't be like shrimp. You wouldn't want that on your fingers. Oh, no, not seafood. You know, it would be nice if they had little smokies that you could get with the two things. You don't know, you little smokies? What are you're talking? You know what little smokies are?

You get a little smokies. Dude, if you ask for little smokies at an eyes wide shut party, you have just called that's so many red flags to those blue blood fuckers. They don't know what a little smoky is. I guess little smoky. No dummy, L.I. L.A. L. Apostrophy. Little. Of course, the exact opposite and they know exactly what it is. And they're secretly the upper class are secretly addicted to little smokies.

And so there's a big old plate of them sitting there. That'd be good. And they, but they restrict access to it. So you only get a little smoky if they say you get one. And I would want them to have access to those energy drinks that they discontinued in the early 2000s. Or I'd be like, I want a plate of little smokies and a balls energy. You remember balls? That was actually an early one from the 1980s called Jolt Cola.

Remember that, Woody? Yeah. Yeah, I do. It was like the theme of my high school. yeah so there was earlier ones and yeah they're the only people that still have jolt cola that get served at the eyes wide shut meeting and they serve little smokies and then all of the the wackiness the Kubrick showed is there I would love it I would go to that another thing I'd want them to have is our potato skins they're pretty good you know what I think

it's all over your cloak no I'm I'm I'm Every morsel of it gets in my mouth. Don't you even worry. Pigs in a blanket considered a low-class ardorv because I like them a lot. I think they should enjoy a better reputation. I think they're pretty solid. I love pigs in the blanket. I only care about if it tastes good and they do.

So there you go. Yeah. Kyle, you don't like it in a blanket? I love pigs in the blanket, but you're not going to get them on the appetizer tower at Morton's. I'm sorry. They're just not going to be there.

Like, it's, Oh, would you like another pig in the blanket, sir? Yeah, for a class, maybe some chocolate fondue thing. Sir, can I get you a 12-year-aged scotch? No, by the light, more pigs, more pigs. More pigs in this blanket. Well, there's also the idea, if I ever got elected president,

which no one in the right mind would ever do. But if I did, what's wrong with serving very, very fine wine? you know, like Chateau Lafitte, you know, 1924 with a corn dog. Nothing wrong with that. I see no problem with this because the corn dog is better than most of the stuff they're going to serve. A big corn dog fan. 100% corn dog. What's inside it?

Is it a hot dog weenie? You've never had a corn dog? It's a brighted hot dog? Is that what we're talking about? You've never had a corn dog? All right. So quickly, you take a hot dog and you put the, the stick in it, and then you dip it in cornmeal.

If you bake cornmeal, you make cornbread. You dip it in cornmeal, and then you dip that in the oil and you fry it. And, you know, the cornmeal turns into essentially cornbread cooked around a hot, hot dog. And sometimes they put cheese inside, too. Sounds good. You don't need the cheese part. This is like an alien nation when the guy's, like, name is like John San Francisco.

And he's like experiencing like earth things for the first time. I can't believe you never had a corn dog. A corn dog is correct. Is that not in the North? Where did you eat them? At the fair. I mean, I've got home before.

We had. Don't go to fairs. What else you got? We had corn dogs given to us at school sometimes for lunch. Yeah. You can go to Walmart and buy them frozen. Yes. And you can get the honey kind that has little honey in that.

Oh, that, yes. It's not that great. But ask someone, it is great. But they have packs of eight. And sometimes, I'm going to use Trump language, people are saying that sometimes you can make all eight of them and then eat as many as you can until you get full. And that number is hypothetically six. And then you put the other two corn dogs in your fridge for the next day for breakfast. Hey, wait, that's something new.

A corn dog for breakfast sounds like something I'm going to do later this week. Yes. It's fantastic. You have to be in a bit of a dark place. But it's... I have lived my entire life in a dark, existential crisis place.

And I... Yes. Yes. Well, I think it's awesome that you're a fellow Missouri guy. That rules. And you're also big on Missouri. big on the cards. I didn't hear you say anything good about the blues,

which is a little... Well, no, no, no, no. I love... One to strike against. The problem is they... What pisses me off is when they want too much money. And, you know, the blues, they...

I loved hockey in the 90s. But I was also conflicted because I kind of like the Chicago Blackhawks better. Oh, you know, I had my issues, you know. but the thing is they haven't left us. We haven't been abandoned. And I'm good with the blues. I wish we still had the Kiel Auditorium,

which you probably don't even remember. I went there once as a kid. Yeah, it looked old when I went there in like 1999. The Cardinals I love, you know, God love them. They're, that's St. Louis, you know. And I miss certain things. things that you probably don't remember, like the steamers soccer. Yeah, I don't remember that.

I do. And I wish we still had that. Wait, don't we have a soccer? We have the MLS team. I think St. Louis used to have a very strong soccer tradition, you know, and we need to rediscover that in the United States. And the World Cup just told us that because we hosted. Yeah.

You know, we need to get back into that. But how many sports can you watch in a day, you know? Exactly. I love the Olympics, especially Winter Olympics. You know? I love the hockey part of the Olympics. I don't watch any other part of the Winter Olympics at all. I watch the most stupidest crap from the Winter Olympics.

I watch curling. Oh, so you're watching. It's controversial this time. You're watching shuffleboard. Yeah, well, they slide a rock, and I'm like, I could do that. I could slide that rock. I don't know if I probably could polish it. They make themselves look so serious when they let go of the rock.

It's like, shut up. Come on, anyone can do that. I can skate. I could let go of the rock. It is the most important sport ever. Curling. All right. I would like it to be.

I would like it to be. I would like it not to be because then that would mean Canada's better than us at something, which I will not abide. Well, they're not better at hockey anymore. The Canadians are pretty damn good at maple syrup. New Hampshire. And if I'm being honest, they are still fucking better at hockey. They are better at that. You know what's kind of cool because I have a last name that would fit on a hockey jersey from Canada.

For sure. Yep. Oh, yeah. You'd fit right in on the habs. with that. Yeah, so I have a good hockey jersey name. But I do still love the blues. Don't follow them as much as I should.

But the Cardinals, I absolutely love. You know, what the hell? And I am angry at football because we've been screwed twice. Didn't the Rams go St. Louis, L.A., St. Louis, L.A., like, didn't they move multiple times between those towns? I don't remember because I stopped. I was like, oh, we built you a huge tax subsidized stadium and you leave. Don't.

You know. He's a scumbag. I know we're about to wrap up. But did you all see that guy fall out of the Goliath rollercoaster in Atlanta and die? That was terrible. I didn't see the video, but I saw the still photos. And honestly, I don't think they should have released those still photos. So because it shows his butt crack.

much that it's like give him a little decency and dignity and death don't release that shit like don't here's the worst part why don't fall out yeah but guys what in the fuck happened did the harness fail I've been on that coaster it has

too heavy he didn't look too heavy I've been on that coaster a bunch of times it is the scariest coaster because the lap bar is minimalistic to say the least you're kind you're kind of in captain's chairs and it's a lap bar and it And every time I've been in it, I've been like, man, this just doesn't seem like enough.

I swear. Well, what happened to me one time, long time ago, I was at Six Flags, which is the one in, you know, St. Louis, you know. Yeah, yeah. And I had a harness come up on me. And. Oh, shit. On which ride? It failed.

And I had to hold on for dear fucking life, you know. Which ride was it? Was it the Batman? I think it was the mine train. Oh, the mine train is full of horse shit. They built that in like 1930 and they're like, we pay tribute to it by not updating it. And it's like, that's the way it was. And it was like 1992.

And I'm like, my harness is not clicking. And I'm sitting there holding on to shit. And I'm like, you know, somebody's going to really get hurt on one of these things at some point. And well, here we are. That's the second death in Atlanta. Back when I was a kid, a guy got decapitated by the Batman. Not on the ride. He actually jumped two fences to retrieve his hat that was beneath the ride and this closed off little gravelly area.

And the ride came along and someone's leg hit him in the head, kicked his head off and really damaged their leg badly. Can you imagine being that person that kicks somebody? Well, even not as bad, but like. Well, I bet it's fun now. A little funny joke. I don't think that can ever be flying. I don't think you will ever

record this whole happened. This thing that just happened on the Goliath, for those who don't know, at the end of a lot of rides, I'm sure you're familiar, they have that thing that it takes photos of you that you can buy as souvenirs really overpriced down at the bottom. That's what the picture is.

It's a man falling from one coaster crashing down onto the other coaster full of people and then their flash bulb reaction to a human being falling 40 or 50 feet smushing onto them. The woman in the back right is like, like full on movie screen. If I remember correctly, there was one king who was still like, he didn't realize what was happening. He was just having a good time. Do I actually do that for, actually it's funny.

They do do like a Halloween themed here. thing here. They call it, I think it's spooked over or something. It's fright fast. That's what it is. All the six flags do Fred Fest. You think when they saw the body fall onto their coaster for a split second, they were like, who! They'd bring out all the stops at Fright Fest. That was spooky.

Oh man, that guy really exploded on the roof of that building, just like I'd imagine a body. Poor God. By the way, that sucks. That sucks. It's about that guy. It's even worse. Not only had he beaten cancer, like serious cancer, he survived

a car fire two weeks ago. He was trapped. He like escaped a burning car two weeks ago. Did he like dodge a truck with logs on it a few weeks prior to that? He mentioned that. Yeah, they mentioned that there were some logs flying down a highway that killed several dozen people. And he was, he had a dream about it. So he pulled over and it didn't happen. He seems like a final destination.

The universe wanted that guy dead. He clearly did. And he was teasing him about it. Yeah. Do you guys remember the movie The Twilight Zone from the 80s? Of course, yeah. There is a removed segment from that where the actor Vic Morrow was carrying two kids, you know, and a helicopter fell on them and just diced them.

And there are pictures of that around. And it's the most unsafe Hollywood production ever. you know, that was done. And, and it was, it was like that. It's like, man, you know, you can get hit by meteorite in the morning. And that's, you know, then that's just the way things are. We are fragile. Very fragile.

Not me. I'm tough. You're tough? Tough as hell. Tough as nails. Tereight wouldn't hurt me. No. I'd make a dagger out of it like toot in common.

Oh, you could because. that's good iron. Yeah. If a meteorite killed you, I would make honorable jokes about you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. I appreciate it.

Meteorate can't take down this man, but a couple of Singapore sticks could. I'm going to get a stick. And when I see you, I'm going to wrangle you but good. All right. You're going to be like, stop, stop. And I'll both be pinned against the wall. Stimony chicken and have you both at my wife. with a whim.

You know, you'll see the power. I'll be so embarrassed. I will. I will. Tear it away. Be too powerful. You guys ready to wrap. Anyway, let's wrap.

John Michael Godey on his YouTube channels, John Nicogodier and Event Horizon, where he does long form stuff with all sorts of interesting people. Apparently Werner Herzog. I haven't seen that one yet. I will tonight. And check out his books, Supermind. And all of our sponsors.

John, thank you so much for coming. Enjoyed you thoroughly. Appreciate it. P.K.A. 827. Happy to be here. This was, this was Batchett crazy fun. I liked it. I'm glad.