Pardon My Take - CFB W/ Tom Fornelli, Ken Burns On The New Ali Doc, And Mt Rushmore Of Things That Make You Cool

Episode Date: September 3, 2021

Brooks vs Dave is set for Tuesday and Football is back again. We send everyone into the long weekend with some good vibes (00:03:26 - 00:14:13) . Mt Rushmore of things that make you cool (00:14:13 - 00:39:18). Tom Fornelli joins the show to talk CFB and bets this weekend (00:39:18 - 01:13:14). Ken Burns joins the show to talk about the new Muhammad Ali documentary, what interests him in sports stories, and how he puts together documentaries (01:13:14 - 01:48:21). We finish with Fyre Fest of the weekYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/PardonMyTake

Hey, pardon my take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen, ad-free, on Amazon Music. On today's part of my take, we have a two-fer, Friday two-fer going into Labor Day weekend. We have a- For who? We got a two-fer. We got a two-fer, Hank. We got a two-fer.

For the people? For the people. For the people. For the folks. For the people. We've got Tom Frinelli. Hank just totally threw me off my game there. I don't know what he's doing.

Well, you always say two-fer for the people. I'm sorry. I didn't know. I was trying to change it up that time. Sorry. My brain is trained for- I'm sorry. Hank said-

Okay, we said- All right. He is. He is. No, no, no. We said no. Hank went to the gym today. Hank went to the gym today, so he thinks he's tougher than all of us.

All right. Two-fer for the people. Tom Frinelli. College football. Huge slate this weekend. We're going to talk about some of the games this weekend. He gives you a lock, so you're going to want to listen to that. And who's going to be good this year.

Then we have Ken Burns, the most famous documentarian of all time. I think the only document- Ken Burns has his own genre. Yeah. He's incredible. So we talked to him about his new four-part series on Muhammad Ali, the greatest of all time. So we have that, and then we have Mount Rushmore, things that make you- When you do-

Things that make you seem cool. Yeah. I would just say that with Ken Burns, if maybe you have a dad that you've been trying to get into part of my take for a while. Yeah. This is a great dad gateway episode. Yes, absolutely. So going to be a great show. And we're brought to you by our friends at Dave and Buster's.

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And more ding, ding, ding, add more ding, ding, ding to your game with more food, more drinks, more screen, only at Dave and Buster's. Okay, let's go. It's part of my take presented by Buster Sports. Welcome to part of my take presented by Dave and Buster's, the greatest place on earth. Yes, I said that. Today is Friday, September 3rd and boys football is back. Let's go. I was going to do it there.

He didn't think I was going to talk about Brooks right off the top because I said, yeah, we'll do Brooks right off the top. Nope, I snuck attack him with the football is back. Football is back. And guess what? Next week football is going to be even more back. Again. There's more back. Again.

But right now this is a great Friday of football. Yeah. Really good Friday of football. And then obviously we've got week. Is Friday technically week one or is it still going to be one? I feel like it's week point nine. No, that'd be week one. We're in week one.

And then and then Saturday. We're week one. Huge sleep. What night is week one? Yeah, tonight's week one. No, actually last night was week one. Right. Well, I had UAB minus 16 and a half winner week one.

Yeah. So we're taking this early because this is probably our last chance for the next five months to have a semi early night. So if Ohio State loses, haha, I think they won't. But haha. Great, great slate coming up. We're talk Tom Fornelly about college football in this weekend. We should talk about Brooks though.

So here's our schedule. We're not going to obviously have a show on Monday because it is Labor Day. We will though have a show on Tuesday with our friend Andy Staples recapping all college football. And then on Wednesday we will have another show and then Friday as well. So Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday next week because Tuesday we're going out to Liberty National, PFT and I are caddying for our guy Brooks Capga against our boss, Dave Portnoy, in a $250,000 loser leaves town charity match.

But Brooks is a professional golfer. Won't he destroy him? That's a good question. Good question. But he's going southpaw. Mm hmm. He's hitting lefty. Lefty.

He put out a video last week which is pretty impressive of him teeing off off of a Coors light bottle. Yep. And he just knocked the top right off of it. He's deadly accurate with his driver left handed. I think having me and Big Cat on the bag is going to be a huge advantage for at least like the first hole that we're on until Big Cat and I get too tired and inevitably ask him to just carry his own clothes.

It's going to be an emotional jolt for about 15 minutes for him, us being caddies because we have our caddy suits. We're in the big caddy jumpers which Brooks told me be prepared to sweat your balls off. Mm hmm. So that's going to suck. Not an issue. Not an issue. But it's going to be fun and you're going to be able to watch it on live stream.

I think we'll be on the YouTube, on Instagram, on Twitter, Jake will be there, Billy will be there, Liam, Hank, and we have new club covers. Is that what you call them? Yeah. Club. We're caddies. We're caddies. Head covers.

Head covers. We got part of my take, head covers, part of my take. Not yarmulkes. Towels? No, not yarmulkes. There's a limited amount. They're going on sale Friday, 10 a.m. So if you want one, if you're a golfer, make sure you listen, get it at 10 a.m. because

they're probably going to be sold out. We should do part of my take, Yarmulkes, for now I'm Kapoor. And then Brooks is going to be on the show afterwards, so we'll have him on for Wednesday, which will be great. So it's going to be a great day. Everyone tune in. We wanted to get the message out there in case you get to the show late on Tuesday, listening up what?

Have you talked to Brooks about how he feels about, because so Dave, Dave is who he's playing. Doesn't really golf, but his mom is a golf instructor, a teacher, coach growing up. So he has a good swing, good fundamentals, foundations there, but he doesn't really play. So he's not, he's not like in great golf shape, I would say. But it really is. I don't know. I don't know where Brooks is at. Brooks has told me that he can drive it far, wit lefty.

He can actually putt decently lefty. He said the irons are a little dicey. We don't know where it's going sometimes. But that's fine though. I honestly think that the long drives are going to be intimidating. Right off the tee. If he can hit, if he can bomb it like 300 yards. It's great with us on the bag.

We already know that he's got like the favor of God and nature. Did you see his putt with the butterfly today? Love it. A butterfly. I didn't, but I love it. Followed his ball and knocked it in. It looked like Tinkerbell following Peter Pan around. Is this like a Tom Brady video?

He's got nature on his side. I was going to say he does have the same crew that films and edits Tom Brady's videos, filming that. No, no. This was during a tournament. It was in live. It was tournament play. Beautiful.

Mike Turrico, both perverted and Italian, was the one that was on the call and narrated the butterfly shoving Brooks's ball into the field. I love it. So we need more butterflies out there. Um, all right. So yeah, that's going to be on Tuesday morning. It's going to be great. We're going to be out at Liberty National.

I'm very excited for that. We're going to say what happens if he loses, uh, we, the show's over. I don't agree to that necessarily. We haven't discussed. We haven't discussed that. Not thrilling for a second there. What do you wear? We all quit.

My big concern is, well, a couple of things. It's the caddy suit, right? We're wearing like the master's all white caddy suit. After Labor Day, some would say that's a fashion faux pas. What do you wear underneath the caddy suit? You just go, you just go nude. No, I think you wear shorts, maybe in a t-shirt. If you've learned from the Frisbee golf, you should probably wear an undershirt.

I should probably wear an undershirt. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Um, but yeah, the ladies will be out. What happens if they lose? We, uh, I think we distance ourselves from Brooks is probably the way to do it for a brief stretch and then we come back.

How will you deflect blame? Uh, I will, hmm, good question, Hank. Um, I'll probably blame someone around me. I'm going to fake an injury, right? Billy. I'm telling you, like if it's not looking good in the front nine, I'm going to cramp up badly. Billy, Billy did something.

Fill in the blank. God damn it, Billy. That just sounds natural, doesn't it? So we'll just blame Billy. Maybe we'll have Billy, uh, help us. He'll be like caddy apprentice. We're going to walk with us so that we can blame him if things go wrong. Like we need someone around us who it's like, here's our fall guy and then maybe Billy is

that guy. Don't you think? Or Jake the Jinx. Jake the Jinx is also, he's on the board when it comes to blame. I'm worried about, about Billy wearing camouflage out in the golf course. Yeah. Not being able to see him. I'm just going to trip over Billy at some point.

We're going to lose him. Can people come out and watch? Yeah. We can. But not more. I don't think cause they, I think we're full. We can blame Hurricane Ida. We can just be like, yeah, the course conditions weren't great because of the rain.

Yes. By the way, thank you for Billy for your service. You were pushing cars last night in New Jersey. Deep water. Great guy. Yeah. Great guy. That's a fucking hero.

Everyone survived Hurricane Ida. That sucked. That really sucked. Yeah. It looked pretty dicey for a little bit in my apartment when the ceiling started to crack again. Same, same. Like there was a big gap opening up right above me.

And I was like, I'm going to die a week before football starts, NFL football starts. And that would be, if I'm going to die, kill me right after the Super Bowl. Yes. Don't, don't let me wait through an entire summer and read all these articles about training camp depth charts and then knock me off like a week before kickoff. Yeah, I agree. I agree. All right.

What else is going on in sports before we get to our Mount Rushmore? Mark Davis has a super layer mansion, which looks awesome and hopefully has a PF Chang's inside of it. Oh, I love the mansion. I, I absolutely dig it. It's got in the blueprints. It says, here's the man cave. It looks incredible, $14 million.

It's right outside Vegas. We got to go there at some point. You got to get an invite. So Guy Fieri, if you're listening, I know you're a fan of the show. I know you're in close with the Davis family. You're going to get the invite to the pool party. If you have a plus one, use part of my take as your entire plus one. I need to be there.

There's also a big news in ESPN world, which is Stephen A Smith has found his rotating cast of people. He's just going to mow down on first take on Fridays. Who do you think is going to be his co-host on Friday's big cat? Tebow. Yes. It's Tim Tebow. We call it Good Friday.

That's what that's a PFT trademark. And it's going to be him just the whole point of Tebow being on that show is just so Stephen A Smith can rub it and skip Bayless's face. Like I have your boyfriend and he's my co-worker. Yep. Yep. Who else is on? All I paid attention to was Stephen A versus Jesus H.

Michael Irvin, I think. Oh, Michael Irvin? Okay. All right. So calm. He's going to bring him up and knock him down. Just screaming at each other. Get the blood going.

I like it. I like it. All right. Anything else that we should get to before Mount Rushmore? Obviously, there's football games tonight, but again, we're taping a little early. And guess what? You get enough college football with Tom for nothing. And Michael Irvin with the SPN?

I don't think so. I think he just floats. Yeah. I think he does hits. Oh, no, wait. He is. I think he's doing both. I'm writing this article.

It still says he's an analyst friend. I fell that way. Yeah. Michael Irvin is a freelancer. He just does hits places. Playmaker. Yeah. Just not on the pipe anymore.

He's just betting just profusely in where were they might have been Talas. Yes. On TV. Big 12. He actually trumps both Patrick Ewing and Chapman. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, tonight.

U.S. soccer kicks off World Cup qualifying against El Salvador. And that would be a shame. The hexagonal has now improved to the octagonal would be a real shame. I'm not. I'm not down with that this year. I'm not down with the negativity from Big Cat. I'm not negative. Wait.

Whoa. When was I negative? I said it would be a shame if we didn't make the World Cup. I think that this is the year. This is the year for U.S. soccer. To do what? To make the World Cup. Okay.

But it would be a shame. And if we just kept on missing them, it would be a shame. I want them to make it. Although when is the World Cup? Dubai. Next year? November. This year?

No. Next year. During football season. During football season. Don't care. I like it. No back six wins from Glory. The guy just does it all.

Down six. What? Blake put up an Instagram with them. Blake Griffin? Oh, is it the U.S. Open? I don't know if that would be really important. I think they were like a dinner or something. Hell yeah.

Jake, how do you pronounce that guy's name? Sissy pass? Sissy pass. Sissy pass. Sissy pass. He goes to the bathroom too much. Yeah. Only reason I know about him is he's like stopped three matches so far in the U.S. Open because

he just always has to shit during them. Might have a UTI. No. It's the other hole. It's his butt. He's got Lamar Jacksonitis. They've had to like delay matches and his opponent is getting pissed off at him because he has to poop.

Sissy pass. So that's my new goat now in tennis, the guy that shits all the time. All right. Let's get to Mount Rushmore. Let's do Mount Rushmore. So we are brought to you by our friends at Cross Country Mortgage. Cross Country Mortgage is much like us at Barstool. People first group of people.

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Mount Rushmore of things that make you seem cool. Things that make you seem cool. Things that make you seem or look cool. Cool. Yeah. I'm taking, I'm going to go 50 right down the middle. 50. 17.

Plain the odds. Is this one last dance for Mount Rushmore? 22. There we go. I think we go all the way to NFL season, right? So it will be, Wednesday will be the last Mount Rushmore. The last dance. And you know what?

I'll say it right now. We'll do it with Brooks. We'll do the last Mount Rushmore with Brooks. We'll think of something good and that will be it for the summer. A lot of people have been requesting Mount Rushmore of Mount Rushmores that we've done in the entire past. But we've already done that before. Have we?

We would never do that again. Yeah. We would never, ever. We could do the Mount Flushmore of Mount Rushmore. Also why don't we get a lot of PMT moments. And didn't we, oh we did Grit Week moments. Yeah. Okay.

We'll think. We'll consider those. All right. 17. 22. 5-0. What did you guys say? See you soon.

Oh dude. That's funny. Cool. 60. 60. So Billy and Jake decide. The order. We'll go first.

Hank goes second. PFT third. Now is this more of a Hank or sorry, is this more of a Billy list or is this a Jake list or is this total collaboration? It depends how the. Oh. Everything goes. I don't know.

Okay. Have you decided already on your 1-1 or are you doing that right now? No. They were debating. All I heard when they were getting ready was Billy was like we should do this first. And Jake was like we should do something more serious. Buying a frog. Yeah.

Yeah. Go for it Billy. I'm giving the green light. Something that is extremely cool. Respecting women. Oh. Okay. So that was the one that was like it's not a joke but Billy's making a joke of it.

No. It's very serious. Yeah. Right. Why are you winking at us? That's cool. Very cool. Nice.

Who is the last woman you respected? Quick. Margaret Thatcher. Nice. Problematic. Okay. Me and Bubba will go with giving the waitress your card without looking at the bill. I love it.

I do it all the time. It's the best fucking feeling. Power move. Because it's just fast. Speeds it up. Good move. Good move. Getting it out.

You don't even need to look at it. It is what it is already. Okay. Number one for me. This is my 1-1. Executing a perfect dap or handshake with somebody. Yup. When it's crisp.

When you get that snap. When you get the pop. And it looks like you knew that you were going to pull it off the entire time. But in reality you were just full sweating. Full anxiety going into this handshake and you nail it. Very relatable. Very relatable. Very relatable.

All right. I will go with dunking. Dunking is very cool. If you can dunk that's a fucking awesome thing that people are like whoa that guy dunks. And then I will go with knowing the bartender. When you go into a bar and you know the bartender. The bartender knows you. People are like damn that's pretty fucking cool.

It's like give a little conversation. You're a regular. It's cool. All right. My number two. You don't think so? No. No.

No. I was looking to hang. I have a similar one. Oh. I'm trying to decipher whether or not it's going to count or not. I like it. Okay. Okay.

I had one that is similar too. But I feel like that covers it. It's a good move when you go in. Yeah. Especially if other people see you. Yes. But I'll tell you what. It's even nice if you're the only person going in and it makes you feel cool about yourself.

It makes you feel cool and also it makes you like there's definitely when you go into a bar there's a hierarchy of like people in the bar and you immediately jump to the top. Yep. My number two is going to be riding a motorcycle. Nice. Riding a motorcycle. On my list. Always very cool.

Always. It was either that or rollerblading for me. Yeah. It's one or the other. Let's go hand in hand. Usually it's the same person. Usually that's what they have in the saddlebags on the motorcycles or blades. Yeah.

I actually like to ride a motorcycle with rollerblades for extra stability. On the side. Yeah. I just keep my feet on the ground. I don't even walk anymore. I just it's wheels all the way down baby. All right. Hank.

Look of consternation has gone over his face. So the one that this I've been nailing words this week. I don't know what's up with that. Similar to yours big cap but it's when it's like a crowded bar. There's a line outside and you walk up and you either know like a manager comes out to let you in or the bouncer lets you in and everyone in line sees that you just walk up and get in and they're immediately like oh that guy's got to be cool. So like I'd say I'd say that's legally cutting lines is a very cool move.

Yeah. Yeah. Not. Yeah. Yeah. Like like it's not something that people are like oh you can't cut like being able to cut. Right.

Yeah. Very very good one. Billy Billy's like I had one that we wanted last. Oh geez. These guys it's falling apart playing contact sports and contact sports. Very cool. How many cool. How many contact sports are there due to find basketball or is that that's not a contact

sport. What. What. Football is not a kind. Yeah. That's helmet. Helmet sport. No that's a collision sport.

Football is a collision sport. Not a contact sport. What are you talking. You don't want to. Basketball is definitely a contact sport. Yeah. It's not too much contact anymore. Playing basketball in the year 1986.

Soccer. Soccer contact sport. Absolutely not. There's. I don't get this. Absolutely not. That's an absolutely not for the people at home. Is baseball.

Did you see Ronaldo slap that guy. No. I did see that. Pathetic. All. Pathetic. I just love hating Ronaldo. It's something I truly don't care about but I love doing it online.

Oh I really do not like Ronaldo. Yeah. I don't like. I don't really care. Don't like him. All right. Playing contact sports Billy. Number.

Boozing. Boozing. Having a cold one. Nice. Nice Billy. Playing contact sports boozing. What was your first one again. Respecting women.

Respecting women. Yeah. He's got it all. We're about to beat up this one. Having a quarter field named after you. Yes. That is cool. Wait.

No. Just a field. Or court. No. Not a court. No. Courts kind of lame. But field.

A field. Yeah. Because it's a living thing. Yeah. You want a bunch of dead stuff named after you. It just means it literally means you're either filthy rich or you're an absolute legend. But either way if you're like yeah this is my field. Okay.

Like oh holy shit. Or you like made them name it after you sometimes. That can be an option too for a court. Sometimes you're like the most winningest person in your entire profession so out of a sound of respect you get a court named after you. Yeah. Hypothetically speaking. Right.

There's a lot of other examples as well. I was more talking about like NBA players that will like renovate their town's gym than they name it after them where it's like they're still they're not old. They're like active younger people but they're such a G that they have their high schools gym named after them. I think that if you get a court named after you and you're the all time winningest person at your profession it's actually like kind of that's small potatoes. It's almost a slap in the face.

It should be called like the house that's so and so built. I like that. That's sincerely the court itself. But that that counts. What like in what with this example like if you say the house that PFT built for the studio. Yeah. That would be way cooler than being like this is the PFT podcasting table. Which one would you rather have for me.

The choice is easy. All right. PFT next for mine. I'm going to go with nailing a parallel park in front of an audience. So if there's like an outdoor seating arrangement at a restaurant set up you pull up next to it. It's a tough parallel park. The stakes are high.

People are watching and you nail it and not even the front swoop. You just nail it in the very first backup one. Step out hit the button in your remote lock the car. So a great pick. This is something separate of not about the pick in specific but I do think that parallel parking the art of parallel parking has been completely bastardized by these cameras now. It sucks. It's not the same.

It doesn't feel even like. Asterix. It really does like I'll parallel park I'll nail it and I'll be like you know what this is a different. It's a live ball error. It's like it's not the same. It is tough. It was always awesome when it was like no cameras just fucking crush it.

I'm always shocked also when I rent a car and it has the backup. I'm like oh that's fancy. Yeah. And the side cameras is everything. Wow. They've got a backup camera and everything. Yeah. That came out in like 2005.

Yeah. I'm still like it blows my mind when I see it. Yeah. Oh let's see. Let's see. I got to get a couple of good ones here. Okay. Fixing stuff.

So being the guy who you can just fix anything like oh like it's it's you know like oh the boat like something got broken on the boat. Oh I got this. I fixed it. I did this real quick. The MacGyver of the group the fixer guy is always cool. Many times someone could do something with their hands fixing a flat tire which I can do that but or like popping a car hood and then like tinkering around boom you're fixed.

That's a fucking cool thing. Uh huh. It's a cool thing. I mean yeah if it comes to like an appliance in your house yeah one time I fixed a washing machine I saw how to do it on a YouTube video and then I just copied exactly what the real cool person was doing. Yep. And did it myself.

Didn't tell anybody that that's how I learned how to do it but I felt like an actual man. Yeah. Facing things with your hands that's a cool thing. And then last I'll do having a guy so having a guy for everything like you need tickets I got a guy. You need this I got a guy so having just a guy every time you need something hey I got a guy hooking people up with those type of connections it feels great. It's tough though when your guy falls through yeah you have to say my guy yeah you have

to have a guy though but there's it's a cool feeling when someone's like oh I want to do this it's like I got you I have a guy here call this guy. And you'll be all set. The best feeling in the world all right rarely have it sometimes I do it with Billy people like I want to get my bench up like I have a guy I got a bench guy I got a bench mob I want I want to get a frog I got a guy all right my last one smoking a cigarette yeah smoking a cigarette looks cool very harmful I don't care kids listening kids vape these days too but smoking a cigarette it's cool it's cool yeah it is it is I haven't smoked

in a long time but I'm telling you what like Jake the second I get back to the north side tavern yeah I'm smoking a full pack of cowboy killers cop thank you you think you don't think smoking is cool no I think smoking cigarettes is gross oh all right so thank you that's the best endorsement I could ever have thank you it's cool having allergies so this one actually big cat big cat is a prime example of this despite his age and his you know how often he frequents going out and stuff but being able to win a chug off in deciding fashion is very very cool I still have that you still have that I can't do it like no matter how much I drink I can't chug fast when you're at a party or somewhere and you see two people

like ready three two one and one person just like one second chugging the other person has to like take a few gulps the other guy looks cool every time it impresses everyone right is like the one thing that I have in my back pocket I can't do a lot of things I can chug a beer very quickly and every time you don't like that's cool as fuck yeah you know thank you I appreciate you know what makes it real cool is that you don't you're never the one who's like hey let's chug this beer no I always like if somebody gets challenged to it they don't say anything and they step up and they just crush the guy that yes that's the cool part yes I yeah you're right because walking around being like let's chug is kind of lame

that's what I was Billy's fourth yeah are you an open the throat guy when you chug or do you just muscle it down how far down there like there's some people that just like pour it down you want to find out Billy no I don't want to find out but I think it's more I think it's more impressive the guys that don't know that weird trick where they do I never thought about Billy's trying to see if you run a gimmick offense yeah that's why you're really trying to figure out if I have a gag reflex no the fact that Billy like as much as Billy drinks like you would still beat him a chug off like that's cool yes correct I would crush you now Billy's now he's thinking about it in Billy's head right now it's absolutely a question

of like two football teams playing against each other one runs like flea flickers and reverses and the others like I'll bet you if they just lined up I had on I don't know there's some guys I don't know what I don't know what I do I just chug I just drink it really fast like there's some guys you have that trick where they can just like open their throat just like I've never thought about it yeah never thought about it how far does your throat open Billy I can't do that I have to muscle it down yeah some there's people out there know I'm talking about God Billy yeah straightest dude ever yeah dude you couldn't yeah my throat doesn't even I can't even swallow things that's a finger up my ass to get my

throat open all right our last guy blew me I didn't even come our last pick it's pretty basic kind of open-ended being nice oh my god that's cool you know what I actually think that is cool it's cool because because going going back to what McConaughey talks about being guys that are nice that's the saying if sometimes nerds are cool when they're cool about being nerds and movies I think that's a good answer Jake being nice okay we'll say I mean I do think you are cool thanks yeah and you are nice thanks okay there we go what do we miss a lot driving convertible yeah very cool surfing I'd skateboarding on mine skateboarding leather jackets leather jacket oh perfect like perfect stubble yeah that's

a very cool thing when you see a guy with like the perfect facial hair the movie star stubble mm-hmm where it's like maybe maybe it's been two days yeah it's a full oh very cool I get that a lot for the high school and like younger college kids but being able to buy booze underage or like getting into getting into bars having a fake at being the one guy with a fake ID is as cool as it gets but with great power comes great responsibility it is cool until you realize like how much work that you have to do now that you're the only one that has it no I was in college I was I had no money and I would just go to the store for like 10 people and then with the extra like a few dollars I could buy booze myself also totally

hypothetical I I don't even know if this is what people do or people talk about I don't I don't know it's just totally hypothetical being the guy who gets the coke that's cool mm-hmm but that's hypothetical yeah being the drug guy yeah yeah being yes that's hypothetical being Lenny Kravitz Lenny Kravitz just cool yeah he hasn't even had any scars in like the last 20 years he's so cool I'm pulling off a top hat that was one where I go I didn't want to say it because I can't but like not top I believe you know I'm saying like the cool yeah yeah yeah pulling off a cool hat is definitely there there's just certain guys that you see them it's like they're just John Mayer types where they put on a hat you're like that guy's

fucking cool packing a huge dinger nope I don't think that's cool it's not as cool as you think that it is catching a fish because it yeah catching a fish is cool cool I don't think so yeah catching a fish is the rod yeah I'm not yeah catch the fish taking a picture with your fish and making your Twitter avatar what Billy said though about packing a dinger that it's classic Billy because in the moment you you feel like you're the coolest person you're not you're the most actually the most disgusting person in the room at the time yeah that's coming from a guy that does it occasionally like you gotta you gotta know okay it was pretty cool at one point yeah I mean yeah but it's not cool it's not cool okay all right puking more than everybody um

hitting hitting a dinger yeah cool hitting a home run catching a foul ball and not dropping your beer or your baby yep that's very cool being all state in a sport yep fuck I had that one on my list for you yeah hell yeah fuck yeah what's a new york state hell yeah sitting courtside yeah I give you sick courtside it doesn't really matter who you are you're cool for that game frankie munius it's courtside I don't think he's cool oh yeah he's cool you think Malcolm in the middle school he's cool being verified Instagram only parentheses yeah uh knowing that it's okay to not be okay that is cool that's cool talking about mental health on Twitter that's cool not worrying about looking cool yeah yeah that's true oh buying chuggy tattoos are cool

buying around for the house yep you got it's got to be like though like sleeves are cool yes sleeves are very cool like if you're gonna commit full full commit oh being able to take shots with not an issue at all very yep with no caveats of yeah you know anything but tequila or like yeah could you make it soco if you're gonna go whiskey yeah just like ripping one and not batting an eye is someone handing you a shot not being like ah like actually maybe the coolest thing you can do at a bar is walking in ordering a nice cold Coors light and a shot of Jameson yeah ripping the shot drinking the beer shot in a beer yeah how about yeah when you're somewhere and you say I'll have the usual yeah having a usual drink I had that one on my list ordering without

looking at the menu mm-hmm that's cool like no we don't we say no we don't need that and then telling the server what you're not needing a bottle opener to open a bottle ah yes I don't have a bottle opener and then someone just grabs it and fucking either like a lighter the teeth is a I it grossed me out but it can be cool like sometimes like that's one I if I can open it with anything yeah that's the one semi cool guy being able to tie a sick knot when you're around a boat that's a cool thing mm-hmm like that is being able to just whip out one she's like yeah I got this what about magic what about knowing magic but not like extreme amounts of magic I'm not down with the Jicks not extreme amounts of magic where you obviously had to like read a bunch of

books or go to summer camp for it that's the only good magic but no no a magic where you like bar trick magic man we can just like pull things off on the countertop I don't think it's cool I mean it's in theory but it's also like because because to do magic you have to like walk up to people and be like watch me do magic it's kind of like the chugging thing you know right right but if you just do it like at your table and you're not like showing off in front of anybody if you're like if you just casually make a quarter disappear through a table and pull it out the other side that can be kind of cool I don't know if this is cool but I know the opposite is very uncool it's very uncool to not be able to shuffle cards yes I was just gonna say being able to

shuffle really fast yeah yeah yeah it's very cool but like I actually judge people who can't shuffle cards I don't know if there's anyone here in this room I know I shuffle yeah I can't you can't no not cool I bread and butter shuffle nothing fancy shuffle just like just running the power sweep yeah yes that's shuffling cars what about what about tipping a dealer that always looks cool when you're just like hey this is for you and you toss him a chip mm-hmm that's cool having like horse tips is cool if you actually have a winning horse tip that's a very cool thing to have that's kind of like a knowing a guy like I got a tip about having frosted tips frosted tips are cool knowing how to drive stick shift yeah yeah Billy that's actually a great one I really wish I knew

how to drive stick shift putting a plane in your bio on social media cool people are like wow that that person has been on an aircraft going to Coachella yeah yeah yeah Coachella in general yeah Coachella in in all of its adjacent vibes bribing someone this kind of goes with what Hank was saying like a doorman if you if you just like slip a doorman cat 20 that's not right bribing government official bribing that's also cool yeah no tipping a lot it's cool tipping someone who usually doesn't get tipped is cool yeah like like tipping like throwing the valet like $100 bill that's a cool move yeah or like Ray Leode at the start of Goodfellow is walking through the restaurant in the back he's just like handing out hundreds of the kitchen manager yes that's cool

um anything else I mean that was a good that was a good Mount Rushmore I feel like we got a little bit of mojo back I hope we haven't done that one before I don't think there's a couple things we said that made me think we might have I don't think we would never do that we've done power moves definitely different definitely different definitely different I hope is it yeah okay Jake's looking it up right now I haven't there's definitely gonna be I can guarantee you that uh parallel parking is gonna be hunting for our moves and probably and probably fixing shit probably what about um like having a real sick bitch in aftermarket stereo sound system in your car yep cool spoilers yeah spoiler yeah aftermarket modifications putting an aquarium inside of

your van oh dude in aquariums oh this was this 2016 before we even did the graphic oh we're good yeah I don't see a graphic oh is it for cool stuff so the real ones the cool cool move knowing that we might have done something similar to this and not complaining about on Twitter here's it here's a throwback pft if you can explain this tweet yeah pmt the twitter said today's about Russian was power moves what would you put on yours and you said threatening to suspend your employees if they don't want to hang out with you and talk about Al Jazeera mm I don't I have no idea what that means I mean either I think try to put myself back in 2016 get it get it paid manning paid manning yeah threaten to suspend everybody because of Al Jazeera yes

another Al Jazeera port I don't know what you're talking about oh the steroid report you can say you don't speak in codes here hit remember Al Jazeera did a whole investigation to the NFL yeah and then I think tell when someone puts a gun to your head and you tell him to shoot yeah that's fucking cool who said reversing a gun to your head Atlanta fan yeah that is fucking cool yeah go ahead shoot bitch you won't yeah fucking cool yeah because what's the worst thing that happens you die and then you're dead so you don't remember that you died yeah but if the alternative is that he doesn't shoot and then you're cool well even even if he does shoot then your brain dead yeah or even if he does shoot you then you're like yeah I told that person do

that that person followed my yes right I'm the alpha yeah I mean your last dying breath you're like I got I'm dead but you know what I'm the boss as my brains bleed out of my head I'd be like you'll do whatever I say yeah another score another dub man out on a win rare dumb for the winning streak on the way out all right we're gonna say Billy all right that was a good Mount Rushmore let's get to our interviews we have Tom Fornelli and then Ken Burns Tom Fornelli is brought to you by our friends at Kors like Kors light is the greatest beer of all time it is the official beer slowing down summer which is ending soon enjoy this last weekend of summer slow it down with a crisp refreshing Kors light Kors light is cold logger

cold filter and cold package it's literally made a chill it's as crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies perfect for a moment to unwind this summer when you crack open a Kors light it is the best feeling in the world and Kors light is so cold those mountains are blue tweet us your mountains show us your mountains we'll retweet them I love to see the mountains on a weekend Kors light is the official beer slowing down summer because of the beer that's made to chill we want you to savor every second of summer get Kors light in the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzy or Instacart by going to Kors light comm slash take Kors light comm slash take celebrate response to the Kors brewing company going Colorado Colorado thank you to Kors light

our wonderful sponsor here is Tom Fornelli okay we now welcome on our very good friend it is Tom Fornelli he is a writer podcaster talker of sports CBS sports you can also find him on the cover three podcast he's got picks all the time he's got college football all the time he's one of the greatest college football minds of our time Tom nothing I said was untrue there I want to start because usually when we do like college football previews everyone asks like oh yeah like Alabama and Clemson they're gonna be in again let's do something different who is going to be the worst power five team in the country this year oh that's a good question but it's Kansas Kansas okay wait you didn't let me finish and you can't say Kansas oh shit I would go worst

power five I think it could be Duke shame like I just think they've been trending in the wrong direction the last year's David Cutcliffe probably like they had a couple like nine ten win seasons there for a while where things were going really well but they've been going the wrong direction ever since and I just feel like the worst teams that had been the terrible teams in the ACC have all improved and Duke hasn't so there's there's a real chance that they go like winless in the conference what is it about Duke because I know that the Manning's used to go down there and throw all the time was about Cutcliffe like is he really a quarterback guru or is he the guy that orders the stuff from the black market and they go down spend a week in his dorm room

and then next thing you know they come back healthy the never next year and Daniel Jones and Daniel Jones yeah it could be that I think it's just more than anything I think especially a while ago Dan David Cutcliffe was just a very good quarterback coach and but I think these days Cutcliffe's probably specialty is more with like the kind of QB's you think of with the Manning's where they're they're kind of in the pocket you're not really looking at them as mobile guys and I think that now that the game's changing to where it's more of a spread up tempo you need a guy who can throw and run I don't know if Cut is great of a coach as he is as in tune to to develop those guys as he used to be okay so this made me think of something which I never really kind of thought

about with college football but we always are talking about the guys that are coming home so to speak the Scott Frost the Jim Harbaugh they get that extra year they get that extra bump because you know they're failing but they're the Golden Sun and hopefully they'll turn it around I just realized that there's also a class of coaches that coach non-traditional powerhouses that have a little bit of success and they could then get to hang on for an extended period of time where everyone kind of forgets about them so Cutcliffe is in that category David Shaw was Stanford would be in that category I would say Harry Patterson at TCU like these guys had some really good years and now I'm thinking about I'm like we they haven't done anything in a while yeah I think that

definitely happens but I think with like a situation like Cutcliffe no no disrespect but Hank can tell you like at Duke I feel like if you're the football coach you're kind of flying under the radar anyway because I don't know how many people there are really paying attention to the football program as compared basketball but with Stanford I think Shaw had a ton of great success early and things have waned off and I do wonder if the clock isn't kind of ticking on there because it used to be like every season you would hear oh David Shaw is getting some NFL interest he might be leaving for an NFL job you don't hear that much anymore so I don't know if that's a bad side for Shaw and then as you mentioned with Gary Patterson it's just I mean the dude

took TCU from the WACC to the Mountain West and then did so well that they got a spot in the Big 12 in a Power 5 program so I think that bought him quite a bit of credit and time there yeah speaking in Kansas man Gino might have been the ultimate example of that he had like one good season everybody's like this guy this guy is a genius one of the best Italian college coaches of all time would you say not a pervert not a pervert no definitely are you what would you put yourself on the spectrum because it is a spectrum like the Kinsey scale are you more Italian than pervert I think the best Italians all have a little pervert in them I think that I probably on the spectrum I'm closer to Italian than pervert the older I get the closer I get to Italian and

less pervert there is I like that's good I like the setup that you got right now you there's a base in the background that you have displayed there you look like the ultimate you look like a late 90s bass player right now like you you're the understudy for fielding corn or something yes that that actually if you had told like 19 year old me I'd have been like oh my god thank you thank you I've made it alright let's do something here where we have the presumptive favorite in each conference most conferences at this point in college football it's I mean it is what it is like college football is there's a few teams that are incredible and they're above everyone else so let's go through it so Clemson Alabama Ohio State Oklahoma Oregon all expected to win their

conferences give me this team that you could see winning each of those conferences out of nowhere I think Florida in the SEC is being like pretty slept on I know from a talent level they're not at the Georgia Alabama or even the Texas A&M level but you look at Dan Mullen and what he's always been able to do with teams even with less talent like I think that you're looking at Mike Leach at Mississippi State right now and I think that a lot of people kind of take for granted the success that Mullen had there and how hard and difficult that job is and we saw Leach struggle last year and I think Mullen you know they lose Kyle Tras they lose Kyle Pitts but he's still a very bright offensive mind and they still do have plenty of talents I think that's a team

that gets prized in the SEC in the ACC I really don't think there's another team I'll say North Carolina but I just don't I don't think anybody in that conference besides Clemson loses you know few of the three games big 10 Wisconsin I'm not trying to kiss your ass I was setting you up for that yeah no I go ahead but it's just like nobody in the East can keep up with Ohio State for a full season because Ohio State's too good so it's like you just have to if you if you win the West and you get to the big time title game you have a good day maybe you pull off the upset and I think Wisconsin's the favorite in the West in the big 12 I would take Texas before I took Iowa State I think I was yeah I just think from a talent level they're very good I think that Steve Sarkees

and coming in we saw what he was able to do with the Alabama offense and I think Bijan Robinson is a perfect fit like for what we saw Najee Harris doing that Alabama offense last year I think Bijan's better player than Najee Harris so I think that could be really beneficial I just think Iowa State really kind of overperforms its expectations and that kind of causes us to over inflate our own expectations for them but they're coming off a nine and three season and that was pretty or a ten win season and we're pretty much asking them to now have the greatest season in program history yeah I don't I don't think that's as likely as Texas and if I'm we're talking to pack 12 team besides Oregon I can't pick USC I just have no faith in Clay Hilton so I'll just

say Utah screw it okay cuz I was gonna say you could just say whichever team plays Oregon in like I don't know let's say the second week of November that will be the team that will win the because it'll just that's what the pack 12 does every year they should eat themselves a lot the Iowa State thing though is kind of shocking to me because they are the darling right now of all the previews and everyone's saying Matt Campbell, Matt Campbell, Matt Campbell and they deserve it because they're coming off a great year but I like this the the zag on that is that Texas could be back yeah I mean cuz like okay now I guess I'll instill you Iowa State is Wisconsin it is it's a team with a great coaching staff who takes some unheralded talent out of high school develops

them coaches them extremely well and is a team that could win nine ten games they compete but they're not really a team that you think of as a playoff contender okay that's what you just said was like the exact opposite of Texas yeah but you know you're Wisconsin you have to say with Iowa state Wisconsin is Iowa State on steroids then you can see yeah yes because yes because Scott's is a hey Wisconsin recruiting is really kind of took it to another level in years so that's not that crazy to say but yeah Texas I know it's so fucking dumb like we get stuck in the Texas's back narrative every year and I'm telling you the narrative is really it's been stupid and overplayed and I haven't been on it but this year I just really think now there's like you know like

when you're on Twitter and there's the backlash to the backlash mm-hmm I think the expectations for Texas year this year are the backlash to the always being overrated and I think we're just kind of writing them off a little too easily because I think that they're QB that they just named the starter he is a very talented player he's a dual threat he gives Steve Sarkeesian more that he can use and they'll make that offense more dynamic as I said Bijan Robinson I think is a great running back they have a good offensive line there are questions at receiver that do concern me I think somebody needs to step up there but on the defensive side of the ball they're really talented too and you can't ignore like last year all the crap that was going on off the field with like the

eyes of Texas stuff and just the Tom Herman and having to deal with all the kings of Texas and all the boosters that they have they're pulling all the strings I think that Sarke comes in with a fresh start they've got a fresh you know if everybody's got a fresh start I think that they're very talented and I think that they're a very good team and I think we're gonna see a good season from the law courts I still think Oklahoma is the best team in the big 12 by far right but I think this is a Texas team that could be very good so all that said are you still going chalk like if you're looking at the top four the presumptive four that are going to be there at the end of the year and hold their serve for the entire season are you going with that are you saying that

there's gonna be somebody else like one of these Florida teams or you know one of the ones that you had mentioned definitely not Clemson it sounds like that one is pretty much in cement but besides that outside of those if there were to be one that would sneak in who's the most likely I am doing the least chalky chalk I can as far as my official predictions I've got my playoff being Alabama Ohio State Clemson in Oregon because I do like like if you want it it makes you seem like you're trying something different when you're still just picking another favorite to get there but like I think Oregon since Mario Cristobal has come there the recruiting that they've done it's like what Urban Meyer did in Ohio State when he got to the big 10 it's what Dabbo has been doing

with Clemson in the ACC where they're just recruiting at an entirely different level that bringing an SEC recruiting mindset to a conference that does not have it and the rest of the conference USC keeps up because USC is USC and they could just pull players based on that but even that's kind of fading under Clay Helden right now and Oregon the talent disparity between them and everybody else is so huge that I think that even if they lose to Ohio State they could still run the table in the conference and then if they're sitting there with one loss and they're only lost at the end of the years Ohio State they got a good shot of getting in. Yeah Oregon is pulling like guys from LA which you know I mean Chip Kelly when he was at his peak was doing that but it

was also like a different kind of style like Cristobal I mean the line is he's one of the best line coaches probably the best line coach in in college football. And they might have the number one pick in the NFL draft on their defensive line in Cave on Tibido he's a tremendous player he is probably the best pass rusher in the country and you know what's funny there's another kid on that defense Justin Flo a linebacker he might be better than Tibido in the long I like that most important player nice not bad it's they're just they are just that talented and I feel like the only question is Mario Cristobal can't get in his own way he can be a little too conservative and offense like we saw Justin Herbert at Oregon like put up

mediocre numbers year after year and then he gets to the NFL and all of a sudden he's he's great because he's in an offense and says hey look it we got a talented QB we should take advantage of it yeah so Auburn game still hurts me the bone X when everyone's like bonus is good no he's not where do you stand on the idea that we talked about this is Kirk Herb Street last week one of these teams one of the you know if Cincinnati runs a table they go undefeated are they going to get in over a team that has one loss from power five no a group of five T as long as the playoff stays at four teams a group of five teams never getting in period I don't care who they play or what we have to remember who put the playoff together yeah the power five why did they put

it together for money they are not going to willfully share that money with a Cincinnati or a Boise State or anybody sounds like you just talked your way into our steak dinner yeah so you can come along when we're correct and Kirk is wrong we're just going to expand the dinner over the course of the year I also think Kirk did that because he's got a you know like he Kirk is good at his job and he knows that you know petting the belly of the group of five is not the worst thing to do if you're a national you know TV guys so it's smart for him I just don't I never see it happening like it just it can't happen the fact that UCF what did they even finish that you're like eighth or something like yeah it's crazy they're so far away from it it's not like they

finished fifth so it's it's just it's never gonna happen Tom we're in an alliance as members of the Big Ten how much did that make you feel better about the world the college football because I have to admit right like SEC takes Texas and Oklahoma the Pac-12 ACC and Big Ten are saying we got to do something let's create an alliance that makes no sense no one knows what it's about but I kind of feel better about it I don't know oh yeah the best night of sleep I ever had after the the formation of the alliance which I I don't know what it does like they've talked about yeah they've talked about like it's like well we're gonna have like we're working on a scheduling agreement that for the future between the three conferences oh does that mean you're not gonna schedule the SEC

well no no we could keep scheduling the SSO it's just gonna be the same thing that you've always been doing but now you're gonna have maybe a cool logo that you could put on a press release to announce it and that's literally all it is it's the same thing with like the Big 12 yesterday announcing that hey we are thinking of expansion we are we've been talking about it it's it's very much like I just want to look like I'm doing something so people don't think I'm doing nothing yeah it it's I liked it likened it to like the first night of real world when the guy is like gets really drunk and then just hooks up with like whoever's closest to him and then the next morning he's like I think I might be in love and then the next morning is like wait we're we're on the show

together for three months here like they just had to find someone to to get in bed with like the big 10 ACC impact in pack 12 just had to find a relationship to fill that hole instantly because it was a new environment and they were scared yeah and by episode three they're screaming at each other in every single other roommate hates yeah it's but you're right it's basically like 1 50 a.m. it's a Saturday night the bars closing down they just turn the lights on they look across the room and they're like alliance yeah let's do it let's do it I like where Tom's heads at though where it's like there's so many people that work in marketing for these large football organizations and they have to have ideas that they bring to the table which is how the legends and leaders division

of the big got split up a couple years ago and somebody just had like a PowerPoint they're like I got a big presentation and they're like we should do this alliance like I like that I like that's very progressive forward thinking on your part but in reality it's just people that want to justify their own jobs yeah there is there was some intern there this was their big break yes I did feel better though for about 30 30 minutes I was like ooh like looks like we're good we got an alliance everything's gonna stabilize and then I realized like this actually means nothing um so how about let's do a gambling trend that you're looking at this year something that has piqued your interest that you want to hammer Hank so you guys know I'm sorry Tom he asked me you guys know

I love underdogs this is the first season this is obviously the COVID year it's the first time fans are back in the crowd yep in games involving FBS schools last week week zero home teams are four and one probably a big reason why Illinois pulled off the upset Illinois so I'm gonna be looking for for home teams underdogs that's my trend of the week that's great thanks thanks for the week I like it and what was yours Tom sorry we cut you off I'm just gonna take overs firing on every single over I could fight that's smart Tom I got a take that I'm trying to get out in front of here before I want to be the first person that I hear safe and maybe you can back me up and tell me that I'm not insane I'm thinking this all right Penn State Wisconsin Wisconsin wins by

double figures James Franklin hot seat true or false I think yeah I I mean not like not imminent kind of hot seat but I do think that F yeah it would definitely there would start you'd start hearing murmurs because like Penn State you know last year was obviously a disaster for them but it was a terrible situation for them because you know they had a couple of their key players like Micah Parsons opt out because of the COVID stuff then they lost a couple players to injuries just before the season began so like they came into the year missing key players on both sides of the ball obviously it took them a long time to adjust although that said you would think that with the talent level they had they probably still should have won a

few of those games they got things together late but this is a Penn State team that the expectation is to be competing with Ohio State and maybe you're not beating them every single year but to be fair Penn State's kind of entering that same territory where Michigan is where it's like they really don't have a chance in hell like look at the teams compared to each other particularly at the QB spot they can't match up with them and they're getting run every single year so at some point if James Franklin if they lose Wisconsin and it looks like they're already kind of out of it in going into the second week of the year yeah you're gonna start hearing whispers about it and the best part is James Franklin could be on the hot seat at Penn State

and then just go get the job at USC and we've we talked about this on the cover three podcast all last year I think James Franklin would be magnificent at USC because the one thing at USC that you really need to take advantage of if your goal is to win national titles if your goal is to just have a solid football team filled with great guys all graduating doing wonderful things fine whatever more power to you but if you want to compete for national titles you need to recruit you need a guy who's really going to try to bring that talent in like Pete Carroll was doing and like you see but all the top programs are doing and USC has a great recruiting area to work in there's a ton of talents Southern California if you look at all these top quarterbacks in the

country they're almost all coming from California but none of them are staying in California so I think if you got the right guy the right kind of figurehead who can recruit and bring that talent there and then surround himself with a good coaching staff I think USC could once again be one of the powers in the country and I think James Franklin is one of the guys who's capable of doing it to be blonde and on the top of all that I think USC is one of the only jobs in college football where you kind of need to be a self promoter like you kind of want you got to have to be semi a pseudo celebrity you want to have want that a little bit and be in the mix and like hobnobbing with rich people and going to Lakers games and stuff you kind of have to have that vibe yeah and he has

that he's got that juice Clay Hilton does not no definitely not a clay I love Clay Hilton though because the night yeah like they like forgot to fire him three years ago and he's just like alright well we're gonna win nine games so what do you want me to do like like people think like I'm rough by Clay Hilton people think I'm rough but it's like I was saying at the beginning it's I don't think it's not that I think he's a bad coach it's just I think that USC should be competing for national titles and I don't think Clay Hilton is a national title coach because I think he's just a good football coach instead of what USC needs to get there Clay Hilton would be a would be a great coach at let's say Purdue he'd be a great coach at Purdue Colorado yeah he'd be a

great coach of Colorado he would be a great coach I don't know he'd be a he's a good program builder he's a good culture builder it's just he's not he doesn't have that yeah some like that that's where Clay Hilton should be all right let's talk about this weekend slate the big game obviously Clemson vs. Georgia tell me who like who you're gonna bet on or if you're not gonna bet on it who you're leaning towards and then also is it fair to say that Kirby smart kind of needs this one not hot seat because they have you know Georgia rolling but more in the Georgia has the talent to be on the upper echelon level the coaching hasn't always met that talent in the big game yeah that's I don't I don't know if he'll be on the hot seat if they lose because I do

think that it being Clemson as long as they don't get blown out I think he'll he'll be fine but I get what you're saying I do think Georgia is going to win this game though and I don't have a great feel I'm betting Georgia plus the three I'm not betting them on the money line but for me it's just like these are similar teams DJ Ui Angle LA is a very good QB JT Daniels is a very good QB I think that the rest of the offense I have questions about both teams at the receiver spot I think both defenses are terrific with the front seven and I think Georgia's secondary is slightly better than Clemson's secondary at least from a talent and athleticism angle the difference to me is I think Georgia's offensive line is much better equipped to deal with Clemson's defensive front

than Clemson's offensive line is with Georgia so I think that over 60 minutes that's probably gonna push things towards the Georgia side I do think it's gonna be a close kind of interesting game though and I think that's really all any of us won as long as it's not a blowout I'll be fine but I would I'm leaning Georgia before anything by the way before Georgia fans get mad at me I'm not saying Kirby smart would be on the hot seat off of a loss here there's varying degrees to what happens to a coach I think he would be tagged with can't win the big one yeah he lost this one badly yeah that's I mean it's it's definitely been a problem and it's it's not even just that they've lost the games it's that there have been like when you think of like the overtime lost

Alabama and other losses that they've had there have been moments and decisions made by Kirby smart which led seemingly directly to the outcome of games changing I think that's where it's really kind of that narrative is being yeah so the other big variable is are they gonna be wearing the black uniforms I hope not I hate those I hate them too yeah but I can't I can't not bet on them when they're wearing the black uniforms it just happens it's just I kind of like lose I black out when they're wearing the blackout uniforms and I look like the sharks from any given Sunday so you kind of yeah you start hearing that Al Pacino speech and you're like I gotta bet on that yeah just it gets me amped up I wanted to talk real quick about stuff going on the Big 10 right now

and well we can get to Shiano in a little bit but Maryland or do you have first of all is Maryland gonna finish behind Rutgers this year I don't think so they could if they do I won't be shocked I just Maryland is a really difficult team to read because it's been the same case for the last most of the last decade honestly where it's like I look at that roster and I see the way that they're crude I'm like man there's a lot of talent on there but they never really play to their talent level and they're always kind of they're always very inconsistent from week to week I think Talia tag of Aloha is talented but I also think he's wildly inconsistent and sometimes make some really strange decisions that could really cost you games but compared to Rutgers

it's just I think Shiano is doing a very good job of bringing that program up to at least standard for being a bad Big 10 team and not just a terrible team overall it's high price I mean the program Shiano took over was in very bad shape but I think he's already improved it considerably in the way they're recruiting I think in the next few years they're gonna be pretty damn decent but I think right now Maryland's probably better it's it's you're right on Rutgers it's like there's definitely a big difference they might not win a lot of games but there's a big difference with what Shiano they're confident looking they're not gonna there was a stretch there where when Rutgers played Wisconsin Penn State Ohio State Michigan it was it was guaranteed

50 to 7 no matter what it was just every single time that was gonna be the score I actually have Rutgers circled as the game to break my heart this year because I looked at the schedule for the Badgers and that would be off of beating Iowa basically solidifying the Big 10 West and then going to Piscataway at like noon on the next week and somehow watching an entire game and being like they're not gonna lose this game they're not gonna lose this game no way they lose this game and then they lose that game that would be a very Shiano thing to do in a very Wisconsin thing to do as well yes how are we feeling about Burt my man Burt who I actually I don't hate him anymore I hated him for a while but he's just funny and he has Illinois playing

like that drive that he had against Nebraska in the second half before I think it started the third quarter that was beelam a ball and when beelam a ball like there's something about beelam a ball that I just even though we've been through it with him like I kind of just still love him because he just bullies you and grinds you up and it's fun to watch when it's humming yeah the honeymoon has not ended yet because I mean since he took over the job from ugly like one of the reasons lovey Smith was let go besides the not winning games part was that the recruiting especially in the state of Illinois had completely dropped off there was none for the most part and like high school coaches were very open and telling you it's like dude they don't even show up

here let alone you know offer our kids so the first thing he does he comes in he does the Burt thing where he completely establishes himself with the high school we've already seen a huge uptick in recruiting the home state kids I think that as far as the actual roster he's he inherited an experienced roster and there was talent on it so I think that he was lucky to step into the right situation but I think that they've changed to an offense like you said the Bieloma ball which is better suited for the Big 10 I think that part of the problem at Nebraska like with Scott Frost like that kind of spread offense we've seen numerous teams tried in the Big 10 Illinois was just doing it with in the lovey Smith era Scott Frost is doing it in Nebraska now Jeff Brom's been

trying to do it at Purdue Richard tried to do it at Michigan all those years ago it very seldom works unless you're Purdue with Drew Brees yeah and there aren't a lot of Drew Brees is around and I think that there's a specific style particularly in the West that works in Illinois is adopted to that quickly on the offensive side of the ball which I think is good and on the defense they're not just playing cover three all the time like with lovey trying to force turnovers once you get to the red zone they are they played a ton of man last week they mix it up they've switched more of a three four attention to Scott Frost if you're listening they play both odd and even man front and it's just been really good and it's kind of like the Rutgers situation where watching that game

on Saturday against Nebraska was the first time in a very long time I watched in line I football game and felt that our coach was out coaching the other team yeah and and good luck and I hope that uh you know you know where this is leading right like mm-hmm Brett Bilma has a tattoo of a Hawkeye on his on his ankle mm-hmm okay all right so I just that's okay because he's you guys are gonna be like go to a couple ball games then it's gonna be he's going to Iowa I don't think that he might I can't rule it out is he is come on I don't know I don't know I mean he's already kind of being a pain in Iowa's ass right now with some of the are you saying that if he goes on a nice little run here at Illinois that he's gonna be like head coach for life you think Bieland is

gonna settle down at Illinois I don't know I mean he could definitely for I would that's the thing like because that's the alma mater but I feel like the pay at power five jobs now it's like unless unless you're Ohio State Alabama one of those programs like the rest of the power five are all pretty much the same deal yeah yeah or a Texan M that that was actually a slap in Jimbo's face they didn't go the full 10 years 10 10 million a year they went 10 years 94 million like where was Jimbo going it's so true it's I mean I understand I understand like the urge to when coming off a great season you want to maybe you want to reward your coach for having a great season and Jimmy Sexton this was part of the problem at Florida State every time Jimbo had a good

year Jimmy Sexton his agent would come to Florida State seeking a raise and eventually Florida State just got the point where it's like no man come on like how much do you want us to pay him but he's at Texas A&M he's got a huge deal I think it's still got six years left on it there are very few teams that could take him away from college station that would make sense or even offer him the money where the job is open maybe USC but I don't know Jimbo Fisher's really a fit for USC like so why are you giving him an extra whatever year like I look at look at what just is happening at Nebraska you give Scott Frost an extension that he didn't really deserve and there was no need to give him because nobody's coming you see it time and time again at all these programs coaches keep getting

extended they keep getting raises when there's no other jobs on the table and then a year later they have a bad season and you want to fire them and you can't because the buyout is ridiculous so shout out to Jimbo I'm happy you got it Texas A&M you don't have to give it to him every time at Jimmy Sexton asks but it is kind of nice as an athletic director to just you know not have to worry about a coach for a while it's like yeah I may have messed up paying him this much money but at least I don't have to you know get back out on the market in a couple years and to be fair most ADs probably like if you give Jimbo Fisher a 10-year deal like are you even gonna be there at the end of that 10 years probably not right probably not yeah so yeah you as the Twitter thread said

like you don't really want to be out here they're pegging out here right now doesn't it's not as great as you think it is when you're in the market yeah what about can you talk me down from Indiana because I've kind of fallen in love with Indiana just based on the fact that they won games that were on primetime last year and I saw them on my television and their quarterback's name is Penix I know it's Penix but there are a lot of intangibles that work their way into the mindset of an idiot like myself where now I'm thinking like Indiana could actually do some damage should we take them serious tag me in if you need my help Tom because I have I've gone to war with Indiana football family well plus Indiana has receivers named Wap fill your entire fry foggle how could

you not fall in love with that team but I know they're not going to be nearly as good as they were last year I think that I think Tom Allen has done a fantastic job of improving that team to a level that we're not accustomed to seeing from Indiana football and I think that they are I think they're taking advantage of Michigan State being somewhat of a downturn and they've entered that point where they're the fourth team clearly and maybe even the third best team in that division but I think that there's some numbers from last year's team and I've been getting killed by Indiana fans since last year because of it they were very lucky when it came to turnovers or at least points off of turnovers like they forced them and they turned them into points which is awesome

it's just it's not a reliable thing to count on game in and game out and year in and year out so there's likely to be some aggression so I think Indiana is still a good team I think they're going to get to a bowl game easily they'll probably win eight games but anything more than that I think you're kind of deluding yourself Indiana had a great year last year India Tom Allen is a very good coach they're going in the right direction but if you actually look at their season last year they beat Penn State on a on a play that okay whatever and some really dumb decisions by Penn States yeah yeah they beat Rutgers who's terrible they beat Michigan who's was terrible they beat Michigan State who is terrible like everyone had a down year when they caught Indiana and

then they lost but final score seven to Ohio State but we that game was not a seven point game it was Ohio State could have just done whatever they wanted they got bored they beat Wisconsin yes I will throw that out there it was 14-6 in a Wisconsin team that was a hard burner horrendous like offensively horrendous down the stretch like one of the worst offensive Wisconsin teams have seen a long time so everything broke right they had a great year not taking anything away I'm just gonna I'm just taking a nice cold shower on Indiana football winning 10 games and competing for the east yeah no it's you're dead on I again I think they're a good team but they're they're not the team you saw last year and you expect that going forward but it's still like if Indiana goes 8

and 4 yeah you're an Indiana fan yes yes yes that's the thing is I mean yeah I think my when I got my big argument it was like it was actually nice because it was a random I think day in the spring it was like oh we're talking college football but it was essentially like Indiana fans being like we've arrived like like Wisconsin's days are past I'm like you have to do it for more than one COVID year to their defense like they've had some rough times with the basketball program lately so they're just clinging to anything they get their hands on it's true all right let's leave with this Tom give us so every every week Tom has his his picks pick six on CBS Sports he does picks he's great sharp handicapper can you give us one that you love my lock of the week this week is

actually Illinois minus four and a half at home against UTSA that is a straight up disrespectful why I think UTSA is one-dimensional on offense they have a great running back in sincere McCormick but the line IDF has completely shut down Nebraska's run game last week and if they could do that the Nebraska's offensive line I don't have too many concerns with them doing it to UTSA's offensive line and if they make UTSA beat him through the air I just don't think UTSA could do it so to get that under a touchdown it's like I don't think Illinois is some juggernaut now because it beat Nebraska but they are definitely a touchdown better than UTSA and Dan I mean you can remember Brett Bielema teams at Wisconsin in the non-con playing against five teams they don't show any

mercy they just crush them those were the best days because it was when you're super drunk in a September Madison day when it was still hot out you know just put up like 50 on a team and call it a day games over by two thirty you're good to go mm-hmm yeah all right Tom you're the best thank you thank you thanks for having me on yeah thank you Tom that's a lot good to see you gambling this season and Justin Fields prediction go quick week three okay oh dude Miles Garrett gonna fucking kill him yes there's a lot of big guys in the NFL Dan how's Aston Villa doing are they better than Arsenal everybody's better than Arsenal the three of us are better than Arsenal yes yes love that hurts all right thanks Tom Tom for Nelly was brought to you by our great

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Barstool app sling is where you can find the live sports you love all in one place go to sling.com slash Barstool to sign up now get your first month starting at just 10 bucks at sling.com slash Barstool and now here's Ken Burns now for something completely different okay we now welcome on a very special guest you know him he's probably the most famous documentarian out there he's an Emmy Award winner he's got a new documentary about Muhammad Ali coming out September 2019 on PBS it is Ken Burns I want to actually start there because I was actually we're going to talk about Muhammad Ali in this documentary but I was just finishing something up and someone asked me oh who you're gonna go interview and I said Ken Burns and they said wow are you the most

famous documentarian out there are you like you have actual when you say the word the name Ken Burns people are like oh man that's incredible well you know I live in a tie that's very nice of you guys I'm happy to be with you I live in this tiny little town in New Hampshire I've lived here for 42 years so I think I'm the most famous documentary filmmaker in this town but I'm more interested in the content of the films rather than in the degree of bold face my name might have and here nobody gives a shit you know whether I shovel the the lawn of my neighbor if they're not doing well in a snowstorm gets me more props than you know Emmy nominations or whatever it is and that's a good way to be and by the way this film is co-directed by my daughter Sarah Burns and her

husband David McMahon we work together on the Central Park five and Jackie Robinson and now been together in this so if I say we it's not a pretentious royal we it actually has to do with the two others that that made the film and Sarah and Dave wrote the script so maybe it's even more theirs than mine so so how does that can you explain that process to us you know documentaries especially sports documentaries have become kind of you know 30 for 30 boom the last 10 years how does the process work when you say okay here's a subject you just mentioned a script like what can you just even explain the the the beginning stages of it for people who might not understand yeah I think we do it a little bit differently than others and in our colleagues I've been doing it for

almost 50 years and it doesn't really matter what the subject is whether it's sports or it's war or it's presidents or it's artists or writers whatever it might be so the biggest thing is that most people have a set research followed by set writing that produces a script that informs the shooting and editing boom done we never stop researching and we never stop writing so we're corrigible to the end and so we're drawn to subjects and we're drawn to complicated subjects we're not we don't want to regurgitate what the conventional wisdom is or the baggage what we want to do is share with you the process of discovering with somebody like Muhammad Ali for whom there's been lots of films and lots of really good films made about specific fights about a couple of years in his life about

a fight with us we wanted to do something comprehensive from his birth and boyhood in Jim Crow segregated Louisville Kentucky to his death by Parkinson's not that long ago 2016 and honor the fights but also honor his struggle with the government against about the war in Vietnam honor his faith and his his adhering to what was for many people black as well as white a reprehensible group called the nation of Islam that was separatist where the civil rights movement that was gaining a lot of traction was about integration so there's lots of undertow and complication to the story of Muhammad Ali and of course when he refuses draft because of a faith-based decision it's treated because he's a black man in America as a political thing and a big middle finger to America so he's

sort of the third strike first strike is he's he's gregarious and he's braggadocio second strike is he joins the nation of Islam third strike he refuses the draft and he's you know convicted gonna go to prison and loses three and a half years at the prime of his career that alone is a great story and has been the subject but we wanted to know who his mama was who his dad it was you know what it was like to see Emmett Till's open mutilated open casket in a body in that casket which was about the same age what it's like to grow up in segregated America and then all these other things family dynamics his evolving political and spiritual beliefs you know his friendship with Malcolm X the loss of that friendship how he treated Joe Frazier and what happens inside those

fights so our secret weapon in the film is Michael Bent this former heavyweight champion who like helps those of us who aren't boxing fans understand not just the strategy and tactics but the psychology and this almost round-to-round blow-to-blow sense of what's happening what's transpiring who's got the bigger heart who's got the bigger will who wants it more and I think it helps ease us into the 20-25 fights that we sort of isolate from his extraordinary career and point out not just the victories but the you know important losses like to Joe Frazier and to Spinks and to Norton yeah Muhammad Ali is obviously a great American to tell this story about like he's there's so much rich stuff in his life that you can dig into I'm curious to know because going back through

through the list of films that you've made and there are a lot of great ones in there has there ever been a subject that you felt really passionate about and then you start making it and you're like you know what maybe this is just something I like a lot and maybe there's not enough to tell you know a full story about it in the way that I usually like to tell these stories man I've been so lucky I'm knocking on wood because you know I've been doing this for almost 50 years and that hasn't happened yet I mean what I find people often say to me man you worked on Vietnam for 10 and a half years didn't you get bored and in point of factor this one for seven years didn't you get bored it's bittersweet I love this part this evangelical part where I'm going out and saying

you gotta watch this film because it's a way to mitigate a sorrow at leaving a project that you want to keep working on you think that making a film is additive it's like building a house but it's subtractive so this film is eight hours we have 50 times eight hours of material we have 400 hours of stuff and all of it is important in somebody's world and it's how you sort of I guess since he was born in Kentucky how you distill the essence of that 400 hours down to 15 hours to make it and will still be criticized oh you left this out and I love that because man if you make a 18 and a half hour film on baseball or an 18 hour film on Vietnam and people are complaining what you left out you go shoo nobody's saying it's boring as hell yeah so is there the burns cut do

you have like a special cut that you're gonna drop you know what the reason why I can spend 10 and a half years is I spent my entire professional life working with PBS so that's P is in public and s not in system but in service and so they if I raise the money they allow me to take the time necessary to do it right I could go to a streaming service I could go to a premium cable and say with my track record hey I need 30 million dollars to do X and they'd give it to me but they wouldn't give me 10 and a half years to do it does that make sense yeah so every time you see a film you're looking at a director's cut in this case Sarah Burns David McMahon and me this is our director's cut this was this is how we thought it should be and so our first episode goes well over two hours

normally in broadcast television you know they cut your head off and and and then some of them are a little bit short of the two hour time period but we get to say look this is what between these goalposts of episode one and the end of episode one this is what the ground we had to cover and you tell me where you can cut something and nobody's been ever ever able to tell us where we could cut stuff and then conversely I'm not going to fill it out just to make your perfect timing yeah and that's why PBS has been so great to us yeah so when you started researching this and you started going through the different clips and talking to people Muhammad Ali is such a fascinating character for a million different reasons but from the sports angle and the shit talking angle

I've always been like he might not have invented shit talking but he's perfected it and now yeah and now today's age you see it a lot more but it was something totally different then was there like watching all these clips were you even taken aback like he was even better than I remembered or better than look I I'm old enough that I remember the Rome Olympics and him coming home with gold and we was this promising guy I remember all the Bracadoccio so that by the time you get to the listen fight in 64 there are lots of people saying just shut him up listen's gonna shut him up and put this guy because he wasn't behaving the way an athlete should meaning modest well you know I'm open to do this and he's also a black athlete not behaving the way people think a black

athlete to be but but we loved him he was so unbelievably charismatic what's more important is that we've got all of that and lots of it but there's spaces in between when this teenager or this early 20 something is speaking softly with wisdom and an unbelievable poise like it doesn't matter that he's a boxer his daughter Rashida told us in the film at the end you know boxing was this much pinching her fingers together and and you realize that's right he could have taken something else he knew he had a destiny and every once in a while when he loses to Frazier when the Supreme Court vindicates him or or some other moment when he's talking about perhaps stopping boxing because the nation of Islam isn't cool about the frivolousness of sports he's saying I

know I'm here for a purpose I know I'm supposed to do something so while I'm wowed by what a genie he's the best promoter ever better than any promoter that ever tried to promote him and in fact when he testifies at the end 63 and up in Albany about you know corruption in in in in boxing and he's going to go fight in New York City at Madison Square Garden which hasn't sold out he's promised to sell it out and then all the newspapers go on strike and so they're saying look you're dead in the water buddy guess what they sold it out for the first time in years because he went door to door he went to the radio stations he talked to the guys he went to to various places he walked the streets he said come hey watch me fight you know and they did he he did that in

Louisville he went door to door and he understood by watching gorgeous George this this wrestler who was hated he understood that you know it doesn't matter what the crowd thinks about you right he says boo his throw peanuts but whatever you do pay to get in yeah he got that he got that part of it that it's just show and if you're going to be the guy they boo then you're going to be the guy they boo he just happened to be the most spectacular athlete of the 20th century I love it because it's it's such a fascinating part of the fight game in particular because yes it's very unique to fighting but like you know you even see now with like a Conor McGregor who may be past his prime but people are still buying because he's able to promote it and it's very few and far between that you

have a boxer or a fighter with both talent and exceptional promotion skills and he was the whole package and then also being something else so the whole is greater than the sum of the parts Muhammad Ali is intersecting with all the major themes of the last half of the 20th century the role of sports the role of black athletes race faith religion politics war and now when we have dug into his personal life and his family life and his four wives and all of that all the questions that are about us with the me too movement so it's he's as relevant today as at any time and so you know I made another film back in 2005 on Jack Johnson the first African-American heavyweight champion who is a film called unforgivable blackness because that's you know when they couldn't beat

him in the ring they just figured out a way to get him out of the boxing ring and trumped up charges against him and and W.E. B. Du Bois a great scholar said it all comes down to his unforgivable blackness and you know I'm not a boxing fan per se but I really pay attention when it's a Jack Johnson or more who cared only about himself or more importantly a Muhammad Ali who doesn't only just care about himself he cares about his people and he and that extends to the world so when this guy dies he dies the most beloved person on the planet and remember how divisive he is in the 60s how what a lightning rod he is for controversy I'm interested in that transformation I think it's as fascinating and the problem is because we live in an information

age is that we're all drowning in information so basically we carry our Ali baggage from moment to moment we forget him for a while we remember him but we just remember that and what Sarah and Dave and I I think wanted to do is replace the superficial and the conventional with a much more complex and dimensional portrait of who this guy was good bad and otherwise and we hold his feet to the fire for his failings we're not unafraid of it but let me tell you man this guy is a he's about love I mean it's a four letter word the FCC lets us use but you know nobody wants to talk about it it's too embarrassing and you know there's a great shot early on I'm sure you guys have seen it which is in the Fifth Street gym in Miami's training for Liston and the Beatles have

have invaded and there's a picture of him fake shot you know punching John and it looks like Paul and George and Ringo are gonna topple over like dominoes but then I got to thinking these these five men understood what how the universe really runs and they'd spend the rest of their lives three of them are now gone Ali and Harrison and Lenin but two are alive and best embodied for all five of them including Ali by words that that McCartney wrote which is you know and in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make and by the end this divisive person is the most loved person on the planet I want to know how you get from point A to point B and even how you get up to point A from the childhood and and how we are now and how much he speaks there's a wonderful shot at

the end of the film of some protests we deliberately don't really show you what that protest is on the Brooklyn Bridge and there's a young black woman and she's wearing a simple black t-shirt with white letters and all it says is Muhammad Ali that's all she needed in this day and age to make a statement about courage to make a statement about passion to make a statement about freedom because remember we talk about athletes speaking their mind and some idiots say shut up and dribble that's ridiculous we live in a free country anybody can say something but he risked everything he lost three and a half years at his prime for sticking up for his beliefs and he could have gone into the army they would have put on they wouldn't put him in combat he'd do uso shows he'd box and you know mug with people

he knew that and he wasn't going to do it he said i'd rather face machine gun fire than to do that so all of a sudden when people begin to look back and say maybe the vietnam war wasn't a good thing he had them they they they were this was the transformation that america needed and and this idea of courage is there now we have other athletes who take a stand and you could think that carlos and smith in the 68 olympics risked something a curt flood black man tried to get the reserve clause the plantation reserve clause at a baseball he had to go take two white guys mesher schmidt and mcnally with marvin miller to make that happen and colin cavernac has paid dearly but these guys are speaking out today they're they're they're they're great i'm proud of them

for speaking out but they're not risking their nike contract they're not risking their football or their basketball contract or whatever they're just doing what they believe they have though as the avatar of their example this man who was born caches marcellus clay jr and louis vocentucky and who ended his life mohammed ali the most famous and the most loved person on the planet i'd want to know i'd want to know how that happened yeah so it's interesting you brought up how you know we look back at mohammed ali as being you know an icon we look at him as being a role model and all these things that you talked about when at the time he was so divisive and the like comparable person i think about when i hear an explanation like that uh doctor martin

luther king jr at the time when he was speaking when he was traveling around the country uh he was hated people he was people didn't like the fbi told him he should kill himself i mean like yes this was a guy that um you know stood up a lot of emotions and a lot of them really really bad from people who are resistant to change but you look forward you know 50 years and he's looked upon as one of the greatest americans well time what exactly what do you think happened um not necessarily dr king but with mohammed ali because you've been researching him what happened over the course of those years is it that we look back at vietnam and we're like maybe he was right about this after all or is there something else that kind of i i think there are a lot of things that contribute i i think

vietnam is one of them you know i think it's also when he came back he wins his first two fights then he fights joe frazier in the fight of the century in 71 and he gets beaten and in the last round when he realizes he's losing on points and he has to go for a knockout he gets knocked down but he gets right back up and afterwards though he's been ragging on frazier he's calm and he's talking to the world and he said you know we're all going to face losses and defeat and and we're all going to you know lose a job or lose a loved one or lose a title and we have to show that we can take this this is part of life it's an amazingly poised comment and robert libsite who's a young who was then a young reporter who'd been following him for years said you know in a way frazier won

the fight but ali won america and that's when kids who may have been repulsed by the stand in vietnam now are beginning to understand and when he comes back and wins the championship for the second time against you know against george foreman in the rumble of the jungle in one of the greatest most artistically beautiful fights when everyone thought they were worried about whether he'd survive it whether he'd even live uh to do it so i think there's all of that the hero's return and then i think he's they're beginning to realize that he was honest and he was direct and that was refreshing he wasn't doing the nuclear news you know oh i'm just trying to play within myself and crash davis has to say you idiot that makes no sense right so so he was always honest and he

was always direct and and that divisiveness is not necessarily on his account it's our problem so there's a moment when david remnick the editor of new yorker and a great writer about ali says you know maybe it proves that we can change and i think the reason why we have a holiday for dr king and the reason why we can look back i mean people were sending a decapitated black dog's head to ali before he fought jerry quarry in atlanta to begin his comeback uh you know uh you know people don't like my film sometimes but nobody does that and he said this is what we do to black dogs in georgia right and you know this is in the 1970s this is a big deal and so i think that we've learned to understand that life isn't just even in this binary world it

isn't just on and off good and bad black and white gay or straight male or female rich or poor north or south east or west it's much more complicated than that and there's something really compelling and interesting about representing that complication the person's closest to you guys are complicated they're not perfect and neither are you and neither am i and you know you can either go with the perfect and therefore nobody's a hero or you can understand that heroes have always been about negotiating between their strength and their weaknesses remember achilles had his heel and his hubris to go along with his great strengths we're all we're all like that we're just smaller versions of these big epic mythic greek heroes so a question along that line uh we we got the

screener we watched the i watched the first one um i got the other three to go so i'm sure you get into it but i've always been fascinated about the end of ali's boxing career yeah and it's boxing is is one of those sports that for some reason guys hang on for a little bit too long and it's always very sad what was the motivation at the end because he is the greatest of all time and then you have these memories of him and you have these fights of him at the end where's a shell of himself yeah what was the motivation behind sticking around and in never being able to like fully give it up until it basically was well past the day well past I mean it's true in all sports we see people you know we think of Babe Ruth as a Yankee but he doesn't

end his career as a Yankee think of willy maize as a giant he doesn't end his career as a giant and so their people are hanging on with Muhammad Ali it's such a fairy tale thing he's won the championship three times right and so he keeps thinking that he can pull some rabbit out of the hat and it's way way past his prime and everybody's begging him his corner his abandoning his kids are saying dad he don't fight anymore and yet I think he's a generous person he's given away most of his money people who are managing him as have mismanaged it so there's the payday aspect of it there's the wanting to be in the limelight he loves other people he loves the adulation he loves to get back to he's always the last person signing autographs you know what I mean

he had that kind of just basic thing and it's really hard to turn it off be interesting say with Tom Brady to see whether you know if he has a bad year he's going to hang it up or whether he's going to say oh no no no I can get better I promise I promise but it's nothing compared to Ali it's excruciating as you watch those last couple fights you just want to close your eyes and say please don't do this please don't do this and you're already seeing signs of the Parkinson's that's going to encase him and and and render him speechless and and that figure shaking at the Olympics in Atlanta 25 years ago this summer you know surprising the entire world and it's really you know to answer your question too it's that moment that finally does it you know

where a lot of the hatred I'm sure there's some people still out there with that unreconstructed view of him but you know when when he came up there with the bravery of showing the world just the sheer depth of his affliction and everybody loving him back you know it's that's a that's really when the full rehabilitation takes place and then remember he lives another two decades yeah he's doing work he can barely speak so Michael J Fox who has at Parkinson's said I couldn't be still until I couldn't be still which is a beautiful beautiful phrase of great enlightenment and I think in some ways you could apply that to Ali this valuable loud mouth wonderful articulate funny person he really couldn't speak until he couldn't speak and then he spoke volumes

and when you know he you know he'd hold a news conference when he was active and the sports world would stop he went to Pakistan or Malaysia or Saudi Arabia the whole country stopped yeah he was he was beloved in Africa in in in the Middle East in Asia all over the world he was admired as someone who is speaking for everybody who's felt the boot of the man you know and and that's that took a lot of guts and courage because you know at some point in his life he's being a little bit cautious when he's being treated badly because he doesn't want to upset the Louisville sponsoring group the white businessman who are protecting his career he wants to look good and then somewhere along the line he just sheds that and just becomes who he's supposed

to be it's a it's a caterpillar turning into a butterfly which if you float like one and sting like a bee you're Muhammad Ali yeah yeah so um the rope a dope i think we've all we've all heard the term a lot of us have seen the fight a lot of us have watched uh various movies have been made about Ali um but when he executes the rope a dope against George Foreman was there anybody uh in his camp while it was leading up to the fight that said hey uh Muhammad this is fucking crazy you're just gonna let George Foreman they punch you in the stomach until he's tired and then that's your plan to knock him out that he didn't even tell him what the plan was they had been practicing he had his own plan and so it's not like beforehand this is fucking crazy they get in the ring and

they're screaming at him get off the ropes Angelo Dundee get off the ropes you know uh you know uh Boudini is get off the ropes everybody is doing that and he knows what he's doing he has calculated the odds the great kind of classically tragic dimension to this is of course the an ability and the willingness to absorb those blows not just a body but to head are going to ultimately end his career and his life but until then that fight goes down as the Mona Lisa as you know a masterpiece because he you know people were worried that he wasn't going to get out of that alive it's just amazing and they're screaming at him to do this and he knows what he's doing and it's right and if you watch that fight this is a guy that you know they just assumed would be the champion forever

and Ali old and out of shape and you know having lost to not only Frazier but to you know you know to others he's he's he just demolishes Foreman it's just it's just one of the most amazing things I've ever seen and it's because he's doing it a different way and he's had to adapt from the you know the the float like a butterfly stuff that he that he was already doing it's it's great it's honestly insane to think that that's what his game plan was going to the fight it's like yeah you know what I'm just gonna let George Foreman punch me until he's tired and then I'll be able to knock him out it's crazy and he has so many iconic moments like that I want your Ken Burns uh if if you had true serum or gun to your head not

actual gun to your head but sunny listen one did sunny listen use something to in Muhammad Ali's eyes yeah I I think so I think it was liniment that's what Ali said that's what most everybody said somehow liniment got in his eye something happened he was clearly winning on points every single round which is startled the list and camp and probably surprised the hell out of the the cash is clay can't he's cash is clay then and then you know he's blind against one of the most ferocious boxers for a round and a half at least if not two rounds and then he comes back and there's a kind of vengeance yeah and so you know uh it's it's it's just an amazing incredible the the the the when you watch it up yeah when you watch Ali uh basically be blind and hold his hand out

knowing that if he's if he's touching sunny listen's head he can figure out where the punches are coming from the force had to be with him right it's incredible he had to do that blind and you can't make this up you tell this to a hollywood producer they go nah but this is what happened and so one of the greatest fights of all time has to be that first listen fight just because the improbability of him being able to understand how to how to handle listen and then be able to take the worst possible thing this lineman in the eyes and he's saying cut the gloves off i'm done get me out of here i can't see because he knows exactly what you've just said if if listen lands one punch his career is over right i mean he's just out and he's not going to get a another shot at it

and so you know the fact that he lives through that and then comes back and now you know if he was mad before he's really mad and listen doesn't stand a chance at that point all right and so then my follow-up question was listed too is that a phantom punch or no like where do you link because you tell the story but where do you if you had to say i don't have the chops i i gotta believe remnick sort of david remnick sort of suggests you know like we'll never know that's true we will never know was it fixed i can't believe that it would be fixed in that regard it has to come down and i don't think that punch was that good so regardless of what he was saying i think somewhere along the line that listen who had trained really hard before ali got sick

and then was sort of dissipated just sort of said after around you know oh my god it's the same as miami here they are in lewiston main i've already put the check in the bank you know first time he gets me i'm going down and he's acting it's as michael ben said it's bad acting right it's bad acting it you know as michael ben says in our film it's bad acting so you know it's it's just going to be one of those mysteries so i don't count that in a good fight first listen yes fabulous i think first second third frazier unbelievable third frazier is maybe the greatest fight of all time because it's not even a fight anymore it's about two men as close to death as you can get and then the masterpiece a cleveland big cat williams and ernie terrell what's my name

what's my name and then of course the masterpiece of all masterpieces the rumble in the jungle the the kinshasa's i hear fight against george forman yeah listen to is is famous because it's the most iconic picture of all time too yeah like that's that's when you think of ali you think of that picture of towering over him going get up you know you actually chose a very photogenic person to make this documentary about there's so much great footage out there pretty as a girl yeah pretty as a girl right he understood he had the guts to be able to say that when nobody would say that and he and he was right he is the most gorgeous specimen athletic specimen and shape and he understood that by by by promoting that attractiveness he was promoting what he was doing yeah um what do

you think is the most boring subject that you could make an entertaining documentary about vacuum cleaners you could do it well i i hope it wouldn't suck that's awesome damn we walked into that one you guys that was good that was good that was good oh man i had one last question for you ken uh so we talked about the obviously the the rumble in the jungle um i remember watching when we were kings my my dad actually took me to it really great film yeah he's like you gotta watch this it's important that was kind of like the first you know big big sports documentary now it's everywhere what do you think about like there's a weird spot we're in right now where there's some documentaries where the subjects are part of it and and they get to tell their own

stories how like do you think that this is good for everyone or do you think there's a point where we're maybe doing too many documentaries no we can't do too many documentaries but i do worry and pbs doesn't permit me i can't have somebody who's the subject of the film being a co-producer of the film or the producer of the film it just doesn't work it's not based on what the congressional mandate or what you guys would expect you just you just can't do that so you know i'll make my films at the end of the day if the film is good the film is good and people will watch it and and that will be that's that's the ultimate uh judge of it and i i think i'm thrilled that now sports is being taken seriously i mean when i was making my baseball film people were going you can't tell

the story of america i said this is the sequel to my civil war series they go you're out of your mind i said the first real progress in civil rights after the civil war is jackie robinson coming up of course it's the sequel no but sports aren't as important sports are really important they're a perfect mirror through which we can see us and i've spent the last nearly 50 years telling stories about the u.s but i've also told stories about us the two-letter lowercase plural pronoun all of the intimacy of us and all of the majesty the complexity the contradiction and the controversy of the u.s and man i feel privileged like i have the best job in america yeah i love it in your baseball documentary i would say is probably it's the best father son piece of art maybe in america do you

get that a lot people i get that all the time like i i can't open up to my dad but me and him sat down i watch i watch your i watch your baseball film more than you and i'm going that's impossible and you go yeah no my dad and i watch it every january and i go okay so it's now been 20 you know whatever years i guess you have right yeah yeah no that that's one documentary that i can sit down with my dad and watch it anytime and it does like it's a it's a family experience watching the story baseball in america could we make could we make a documentary about ken burns like could i do that and then call it a ken burns documentary and then hopefully pbs will get confused and give me a bunch of money listen talk about vacuum cleaners that would suck well everyone should go check it

out september uh with september 19 correct september 19th pbs mohammed ali as you've never seen it before there's been a bunch of documentaries about him this is going to be all of it uh super nuts yeah and and we really appreciate you coming on ken hey it's been my pleasure thanks so much for having me you guys all right thanks so much be well great to meet you well ken burns is brought to you by nitsa for more information about drive sober or get pulled over campaign you go to traffic safety marketing dot gov check it out there but it's labor day weekend that means that the u.s. department of transportation's national highway traffic safety administration is working together with law enforcement community to decrease impaired driving i'm just going to

tell it to you straight i'm going to go off off script right now there are going to be a lot of cops out this weekend it's labor day weekend you're going to be partying you're going to be having fun with friends you're going to be having fun with family at cookouts you name it going to be out at bars watching football it's not the time to drive drunk if you drive drunk if you drive buzzed you're going to get pulled over best case scenario is that you get a dui and you get a big strike on your record that's going to make your life a whole lot more complicated worst case scenario is you hurt or kill yourself or somebody else during the 2019 labor day holiday period 38% of fatalities and traffic crashes involved a drunk driver there's no excuse to drive drunk

with all the options that you have for different ways to get rides you can get a designated driver you can call a cab you can use one of the apps on your phone that you have to get somebody to come pick you up and get you home safe there's really no excuse to be driving drunk don't want to hear about any of our listeners getting into trouble don't want to hear about any of our listeners losing their lives getting hurt so please please please don't drive drunk drive sober or you get pulled over that's the bottom line and that's what we want to see out of you guys no drinking driving this weekend no drinking driving ever but this weekend i'm letting you guys know ahead of time there's going to be a ton of cops out be safe get home safe get home in one piece okay let's

finish up we got firefest of the week reminder tuesday no show monday labor day tuesday new show with andy staples wednesday new show with brooks kepka and can i say the guest yep logic yeah yeah awesome interview already taped it logic and then we'll have friday we'll do a big uh preview with warren sharp getting us into week one of the nfl football is all the way back baby it feels great but let's do firefest of the week and also tune in to us at liberty national on tuesday well we catty brooks kepka nine am nine am ish uh my firefest uh it's barstool sportsbook related living in jersey sportsbooks live there uh my usual routine is like you know i'll wake up check the sportsbook see what i like and then i forgot you sometimes i'll put pics in uh in my

apartment before i leave on this particular day yesterday wednesday um i waited waited until i got to the train station there was like a 10 minute away from my train i was like all right i'm gonna put my pics in uh there's a feature on the app where you can i made three mob pics and then there's a feature where you can parlay them which i like and i'll just you know sprinkle a little bit on the parlay just to see but because the train was so close to the border of new york city it wasn't like registering my location yeah so i couldn't put it in obviously the pics went through you know ah that's tough that is and one of them was the dodgers it was the last game the night they like it was it was close i thought they were gonna lose i would have been like all right one and two

didn't lose the part or didn't win the parlay whatever but three you know with the potential parlay on top of it would have been nice i'd rather go 0 and 3 than have that happen right that's why i was rooting for the browse watching the braze dodgers i was like i hope the braves win just so like i don't have to like have that hanging over my head of not only did i go three no but i also would have had the parlay hit so really like four five and oh if you're looking at unit numbers but whatever that's really gambling is just about like how you feel mentally so in a way you got to have some confidence going to the weekend you're hot right now i think that still qualifies you as being hot yes yes no it does you're hot but that's bad though

that's almost worse when you're hot when you're hot you know you're gonna be not no but big catch right you're wasting your hotness on losers you're wasting your hotness without any benefit you could just fade me publicly yeah i will obviously mm-hmm and tweet about it you're zack gal finakis right now sitting down really blackjack table it was it was hurtful it was a troll move i didn't expect you guys were talking about i was trying to promote the sportsbook you guys are whole thing it's a troll move not an inside the house move calls coming from inside but like it's also like you were acting like it's not it hasn't been a reoccurring thing that's happened for the better part of like 10 years yeah but you were texting me as it hurts it hurt it hurt it

hurt it hurts i can't probably do that i can't do that especially after i was ready to uh i was ready to put on my shoes and go fight someone's new boyfriend who didn't end up being a new boyfriend yeah i was gonna fight him i appreciate that i got trolled means a lot hey you look good though you look oh yeah what about your what about your uh your trainer new workout regimen that's just fire yeah yeah why no fest yeah why is it fire because i'm getting just getting jacked you are you ever uh what's this guy's name yeah what is his name don't worry about it what's his name i'm not telling you who's your trainer i don't want you to know is he big yeah my trainers you know they're in shape they're in there so it's not is that is she i don't like to give people pronouns you know

is it never know whether or not people want to go where she looked like hang what who cares is it you have you have a female trainer pfd any questions uh i never said is there is there a boxing training class that you can sign up for and like the trainer puts on a nightgown and then runs you over with zero radius mower i don't know i'll have to look into that okay if there is let me know it's actually so like soul cycle oh okay okay like it you got it uh you like her my trainer's nice yeah my trainer's nice like more than a trainer you're training bra right now did she listen to this show i don't know okay well she does sup for hank sup for hank see you training hank really likes you know the body blows yeah

you know i'm saying i don't even know what we're talking about i'm never telling you guys anything no headshots all right bfd you're fine fast i just it's very funny to just imagine hank getting beat up by a boxing trainer regardless i know i know what you think is funny to imagine me doing oh yeah what i just i i don't even want you to i don't know what you're talking about hank okay i like some bros are rooting for bros right now i'm pulling for you we're pumping each other up there you go 2021 physically mentally spiritually hell yeah is that it yeah that's it uh my fire fest is i well i sat down with kfc yesterday and recorded a behind the blog episode uh where we got really deep into like my past my present

like a lot of stuff about me that i don't really share on this podcast a lot because we like to have fun talk about sports oh you guys got keep it moving etc we got pretty deep and oh nice he's real deep real deep hank and so he started asking me about you know the sunglasses and things like that and i told him uh something i've been thinking about for a while here which is the sunglasses at at some point can be a big hindrance to me and not only like just being around the office when people are filming things i have to worry about you know if i'm in the background toss the glasses on real quick if somebody catches me and then they put it out on twitter the person who videoed me just doing their job gets a lot of shit because i happen to be in the background that's not fair

to them because that's not their decision it's my decision so it starts to impact other people at times and then if we're doing an interview with somebody who might not know us and they don't have a lot of time to get to know us or haven't heard what we're about they sit down and they're like what's the deal with the guy with the glasses and you can see usually at the start of the interview before they get into the rhythm with us they're just like it throws it off a little bit and that's something that like i've been noticing and and thinking about for a while and also when we do live streams one thing people don't really know is that when we're doing a live stream when we're watching tv i can't see the television because of the polarized glasses so i have to like put my

head to the side and it sucks it makes nfl sunday's way worse if i'm doing a live stream i have to like look out of the corner of my eyes the entire time and strain them so i'm trying to think of ways to partially lose the glasses and i'm also thinking that people are going to be pissed when they see my eyes at least for a little bit yeah not because they're like freak eyes i think i'm a pretty normal looking guy but um it's just a freak that hasn't been out there for a while big time huge freak so i'm trying to think of ways to to ditch the glasses at times not fully yep and in certain points picking and choosing for those reasons that i put out there it's not something that like oh and also if i have to wear them like in a bar at night time if we're doing like an event

i just walk into tables yeah i might as well be a blind person that's kind of funny though walking around i think that you should do you should put it to the awl's to try to uh we should we should get them to maybe subscribe to a certain youtube yeah speaking of that a lot of dirt week videos coming out today there we go so that's a good start gas it up so how many how many subscribers do we have right now 270 270 we need 300 right if we get if we get to 300 let's get to 300 we'll push it to 300 i'll do it go subscribe and we'll do it on the youtube we'll do it on the youtube to do it on the youtube we gotta figure out a cool way to do it yep um but yeah it's just it's something i've been thinking about for a while and obviously like i would still keep the glasses for most of the time

that we'd be doing the show i know you'd probably be weirded out just like because we've been doing the show yeah it would be a little bit but that's fine you do whatever you want i i support you in all your endeavors what about you hank hank's got a little smirk mm-hmm what's this no i i supported i've i i think it's impressive how long you've gone keeping them on as often as you do yeah all right so that's just what i've been getting off my chest also if you think it's a shitty idea let me there will definitely be some people to be mad but guess what in like two days they'll won't even remember that you had glasses yeah i can't see people holding on to their wrestler equivalent to this like taking off pain yeah pain taking off the mask and now now he's

and what was now he's made what happened with that i'm trying to that's what i'm trying to yeah i was weirded out but then i get over it did rave misterio ever take us off uh i don't i don't know no he did an interview but not on wwe so there it is you're right i don't think or uh what's his name from uh the kiss those guys when they took your makeup oh yeah that's that's really strange yeah when they do that i i think you're right i think that there'll be people that will be upset for like a couple days but i can't see somebody like months from now being like i wish we put his sunglasses yeah right so 300 000 let's get it let's get the people motivated 300 000 we'll do the reveal on a youtube we'll figure out a way to make it fun let's fucking do it and they're

freak eyes they are freak eyes yeah you want to see the real nasty they're fucking gross you've never seen you've never seen eyes like these before they're actually gray he's got no soul it's like cal ripkin jr you see right through actually he's like max scherzer yeah i should wear i should get some you should you should maybe red contacts or uh uh what was it uh witches when they had purple eyes that fucked me up for a really long time what about the people have you ever seen the cat eye contacts you need contacts that make it look like you have cat eyes yeah or goat eyes yes which are those are the devil ones yes yes um all right uh let's let's oh my firefest yeah uh i broke my computer and i'm about to have a seizure looking at it so

that's about it how'd you break it i closed it pornography a pen inside of it and now the screen is completely smashed and it looks like i'm gonna have a seizure how hard you close it that was it and it did it computers are fucking soft they're soft ass ass bitches you should try to get like one of the you know they're super durable ones that they give to people that have to like go out in the field on oil rigs ones that have like the uh plastic and rubber around the side what are those called tough books yeah oh yeah yeah you get a tough book and you get the it's that and uh the Nokia that basically is a walkie talkie not a phone or his next tell yeah next tell yeah dude i that's that's the starter set for being a badass i've actually that actually

those are really cool be having being like on a construction site yeah a cell phone holds a guy holding those commercials uh fuck i don't remember you know i don't you know the commercial i'm talking about they were the coolest commercials for the cell phones yeah it was it was like oh yeah the chirp ones was it just chirping fuck i'm gonna find this new cell phone from no oh yeah this one's not for pussies they were yellow yeah two way two way yeah all right uh jake i have two firefests i hinted at both of them earlier this week but they're still bothering me to this day one is i still have a stiff neck my neck is still diagonal pussy yeah of course let's just get right to it and my shoulders are still not even through the week you are a yeah

people people think jake is a nice guy and he is he's a savage with the box straight up yep straight up put that on a quote card i mean you people always wonder jake how how is your mouth so good at pronouncing all these difficult names well a lot of training yeah yeah exactly and number two all jake does all day in his desk is is tie cherry steps did try to impress me but he's got like a stack of starburst wrappers next to him yeah so hopefully it loosens up over the weekend tried pretty much jake loves to eat pussy exactly uh and second off we are one week from nfl kickoff and score gami is still down ah so i'm really officially getting worried what this is bad jake can't you just go back and look at old score gami charts and then

you can just i mean the website is like the master list okay you don't have the website nothing else is it's like the yellow line yellow line is on official score gami yeah score gami's the chains everything else is the yellow line so what what do we do if it's not up i don't know i saw a different how about kill ourselves i don't know a different that's crazy what's the point of watching football if you don't know if that score's ever happened yeah i saw a different media companies doing a feature on the score gami guy this weekend so hopefully there's some answers unveiled there we'll see there that's probably what it is if they're unveiling like yeah they're revamping it like a new user yeah new ui that's all set up next jinn score gami yeah so we'll say

but i'm nervous i like the old school feel the score gami website though it's like when you go on to the ELO chess rankings and all that and it looks like it's straight out of 2009 yeah i like super bowl squares on steroids yeah you don't need to you don't need to update something that's already perfect yes yeah so i'm nervous but we'll see billy give us your firefest and also anything that we missed um yeah so i bought i have some waterproof boots a lot of flooding this last night camouflage on them they're just um desert colored so i went to you know wade through all the flooding billy why would you ever buy like waterproof boots that are designed to blend into a desert environment

i don't know anyway so i stepped into the water one of the boots had some sort of hole in it so i have one dry foot one super soaked wait is are we looking at it right now yeah wait is your right foot just soaked right now yep it's the next day well no this morning oh there's still water got to go back through a lot of water to get home very clear which one is not waterproof yep well uh got one soggy sock you wouldn't make a good well no you got in here so you would make a good troop i got through yeah have you uh have you considered like wrapping up your legs with something as you're walking oh no i see all the brown water and i'm like if if somebody has a scrape on their leg there's some parasites in there yeah so definitely going to go with some

plastic bags next time okay um always always wrap it up billy um does mike variable actually hate tom brady yes yeah i saw the video yeah for sure definitely it's yeah real animosity between tom brady and mike frabel and not at all just because like they're former teammates that shared a locker room for years and years and years and one super bowls together also speaking of tim tebow earlier jake paul wants tebow to box oh another thing that tim tebow can fail at yeah yeah you think he'd be good box exactly that's what everyone said with the tight end uh imagine how long you would take for him to throw a punch huh i don't know i do okay i think he would he would look so stiff and he would get knocked out and everyone would be like well he tried but then he would rise again

yeah uh anything else uh no okay i think i think coli said that tim tebow is like the ultimate joe in pros vs joes he should just have like a reality show that has him competing and getting defeated yes by every single former professional athlete in every sport i love it i love it 84 99 eight 18 i should credit my source the it's anina kimes doing the score gami feature excited okay shout out to me now oh the feature yeah oh justin herbert also uh is a cart return guy 69 11 11 first timer whoa we still have like 15 left 15 we have six 14 15 20 22 26 27 29 44 49 51 63 76 70 81 88 97 that was very fast your tongue was really working on that give it i'm gonna start taking 97 i'm a will 97 all right sharks can't clap i love you guys

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