Pardon My Take - Horace Grant, Last Dance Episodes 5 & 6, Mt Flushmore + Billy's Deep Dive

Episode Date: May 4, 2020

We review the Last Dance Episodes 5 and 6. MJ shitting on Isiah again, the Dream Team, Jordan's gambling problems and the Finals vs Charles Barkley. (2:28-27:40) Andy Dalton signs in Dallas and the Bears do not pick up Mitch Trubisky's 5th year option. (27:41-33:38) Who's back of the week. (35:46-50:35) 4X NBA Champion Horace Grant joins the show to talk about the Bulls first 3 peat, his relationship with Michael Jordan, being best friends with Scottie Pippen, playing with Shaq and Penny, and NBA What ifs. (52:51-1:34:06) Segments include stay woke on Kim Jong Un, (1:36:05-1:39:30) Mt Flushmore of sports, (1:39:31-1:54:22) and Billy's Deep Dive where he pitches us his new big idea. (1:55:44-2:10:23)You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/PardonMyTake

Hey, pardon my take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. On today's part of my take, we have Horace Grant, member of the first three Pete of the Chicago Bulls on the show. We talked to Horace about gambling with MJ, possibly being the snitch for the Jordan Rules book, his time in Orlando with Shaq and Penny, his time in L.A. with Shaq and Kobe, everything.

So oh, also Scotty Pippin's cat, which is kind of a fun little side story. Great interview with him, gives us a little bit more insight into the last dance, which we will review episodes five and six. We have Who's Back of the Week, Mount Flushmore of Sporting, or Sports to Participate in, and Billy's Deep Dive, where he pitches a shark tank style on his new protein. Before we get to all of that, pardon my take is brought to you by the Cash App, not only is it the easiest place to send money to your friends, it's the safest. It's the number one app for social distancing.

It's also the number one app in my heart, because I love the Cash App. They've been giving out subscriptions to our Twitch channel at part of my take. They have been hooking up AWLs, they've been giving the charity for the Cat Cave Derby. They are the greatest app ever, and you need to download it right now. If you like us, if you love us, if you support us, you need to also support the Cash App because no one sims us harder than the Cash App. We have the Cash App Studio for a reason, so go download it right now today, download it today, and of course, when you download the Cash App and enter the referral code

barstool, you'll receive $10, go buy yourself a beer, go buy yourself a pint of ice cream, and the Cash App will now send $10 to ASPCA as well, so download the Cash App from the App Store or Google Play Store today, and get involved with the Cash App. Okay, let's go. Welcome to part of my take presented by the Cash App, go download it right now, use code barstool, you get $10 for free, $10 to ASPCA. Today is Monday, May the 4th be with you, oh shit, I'm not even a Star Wars guy, and I remembered that joke.

Wait, consecutive part of my take, so it's going to be May to May the 4th be with you? Damn. That's cool. Shout out Robbie Fox, he's probably so pissed that we're not all in the office today, so you can't say drop that line to everyone. All right, we have awesome, awesome show for you, Horace Grant coming up, little NFL talk coming up, little who's back, Billy, but before that we're going to review episodes 5 and 6 of The Last Dance.

Now let's do it chronologically, because as much as I want to start with the gambling stuff so we don't get confused, let's try to keep chronological order, and we'll start with the dream team, and basically I would say, if you had to break it down, Michael Jordan doing this documentary, 50% to remind everyone in the world that Michael Jordan is a goat and LeBron, like he's still better than LeBron, and 50% just to shit down Isaiah Thomas' throat. Yes, I was going to say, I think that a big part of him finally releasing this footage what 22 years later is just to remind Isaiah Thomas that he was not on the dream team because

he didn't shake his hand after that playoff series, and that Christian Leitner was on that team. How out of place do you think Christian Leitner felt at that practice? He probably knew better. Christian Leitner was probably on the sidelines just like knowing not even to try to sub himself into the game. Oh, it's been said, it's been talked about that like MJ said like no matter what team Christian Leitner was on, they would always lose, like no matter what, because he was

that bad and that far out of like, you know, in the deep end when it came to how good this team was, the Monte Carlo practice is something that I don't, I think someone has the full unedited tape and I don't know why we can't watch it, like it makes no sense unless something has been said in it that can't be taken back, but it's crazy because it actually is the exact moment. And of course, MJ had already won two titles, but it's the exact moment where the torch really gets passed because you see magic being like, it's still my team and then that happens and he's like, well, I guess it's not my team anymore.

Yeah. Imagine taking a torch out of a practice session. Like we're not talking about an NBA finals, we're not talking about a playoff series. Michael Jordan took the torch during a practice session and it wouldn't shock me at all if Michael Jordan had paid players on Christian Leighton's team to lose every single practice game just so that they could go back and say like, hey, Isaiah, you could have been on this team instead of a smoother Christian Leighton and you weren't. But yeah, that that practice was, I'd heard the stories about it before, hadn't seen this

much footage of it yet. The footage has to exist. It actually, if you want to get our conspiracy theorist hat on, I wouldn't put it out of the own possibility that LeBron James purchased that film, like he purchased the film of getting dunked on at the Nike camp and just burned it so that people would know just truly how great Michael Jordan was. There's a longer version on YouTube that I've watched and I know that it does exist. I don't know why we can't watch the whole thing.

There's got to be a reason or maybe like now would be the time to let us see the whole thing. But I would say it's probably the greatest, greatest practice of all time. And then the other stories out of the Olympics, the Tony Koo coach, I, so we have, we have the Michael Jordan grudge meter that we've been doing the last couple of episodes after these last dance. He has a full list tonight, the Tony Koo coach where basically if Jerry Krause ever had eyes for anyone ever, Michael Jordan is basically like, I'm going to destroy your life.

And that first game against Tony Koo coach when Koo coach was like, I didn't even know we were playing that hard. And Jordan had Pippin guarding him and just like dunking on him and everything. And then Pippin with just the ruthless like, yeah, he can't even play in the NBA because he was mad that Jerry Krause was going to pay him more than he was paying Pippin. That was great. And then I just remember that dream team was such, it was such a joke how much better they were than everyone.

It was so, so insane. They did lose one game to a scrimmage to a college all star team where I think Chuck Daly didn't even play MJ just to prove the point like you guys need. You guys could lose to anyone, but they couldn't lose to anyone because they didn't take a time out in the entire Olympics. It's incredible how good that team was like it occurred to me while I'm watching this that there's so many people out there whose best moments in their lives are getting their ass kicked by Michael Jordan.

They're probably 3000 people that looking back on their deathbed, they're like, you remember when Michael Jordan just absolutely dominated me, that was pretty cool. So speaking of that, because I went to look up, I was trying to find some stories because it's famous. That's why Dan Dockage doesn't shut up. Well, it's true. It's true. It's a good point.

Hey, that's, it's a great point because I thought about this when I was watching Croatia. Dockage seems like it's a Croatian name. Could he have played for Croatia in those Olympics and come in as like the Jordan stopper? I don't think he was good enough. I mean, Todi Kukos was a fucking really good player and Croatia was actually like, I mean, they were worlds worse than USA, but they were better than everyone else. So I went and looked up, no offense to Dockage, but that's just, yeah, he's not an NBA, he's not NBA caliber player or Europe caliber player.

So I went back and I looked because there's a bunch of famous stories about how MJ would play 36 holes before these games and not even care. I found, and I found one that I had never seen before from Charles Barkley. I think he told recently and it's basically MJ rolled up all everything you just said PFT, like the amount of people out there who are like, my best moment is getting smoked by him. Yeah. So it was a, I'm going to read the, what, what Chuck, Chuck said, he said, they go out

play 18 and Chuck Daly says, okay, that was a great time and Michael says, no, I'm going to go play another 18 and Barkley says, I'm like Michael, we got a game tonight. He says, Chuck, I'll be fine, blah, blah, blah. So Michael comes back after playing another 18, we're getting ready for the game. And Chuck says, Charles, you got this guy, Scottie Pippin, you got this guy. And then Michael says, no, I got him. It was the point guard from Puerto Rico. And Chuck says, well, he's the point guard, Michael.

Michael looks at him and says, I said, I got him. I read something he said about me in the newspaper and I got him and the whole room's like, dude, you just played 36 at holes of golf and you're going to guard the point guard. Michael would not let his, this little dude dribble. He had played 36 holes and he's talking to the guy the whole time like, Hey, don't you ever talk about me publicly again. I'm Michael Jordan. Don't you ever talk about me.

That is a practice scrimmage game against Puerto Rico. We got to look up and find out exactly what the guy said because my guess is the dude from Puerto Rico was like, yeah, Michael Jordan is the best player of all time, but he's human or something innocuous like that, you know, like on a good day, anything can happen. And Jordan had to, he was at a level where he had to invent all these rivals that weren't actually rivals to him just so he could like get motivated to go out and beat somebody's ass. Right.

Like, like, you know, we've been practicing really hard. Michael Jordan is the greatest of all time, but we can't go in there and be intimidated by him. Yeah. Yeah. And Jordan was like, no, I got this guy. So the other also Harvey Schiller is on the grudge meter. That just random clip where he's like, Harvey Schiller is a real dick right before MJ pulls

the classic move of the flag over the Reebok, which I'm sure would have been, it was a controversy back then because there was nothing to talk about in terms of the games. But today it would have been like, insane, people would have flipped out. It also got Reebok, a lot of action on social media tonight, like how many impressions did they get just based off Michael Jordan hunking it back in 1992. So how about Adidas listening to MJ be like, yeah, Adidas was my number one, but they literally couldn't make a shoe. Yep.

That's tough. That's tough. If you're an Adidas, it's. Unbelievable. All right. So the other part of the episode five, which was very interesting was the political stuff and the famous Republicans by sneakers to which MJ says it was a joke and Sam Smith has since many times been like, yeah, he said it in jest, but it became something like a

lot bigger. Uh, I actually, I don't know what your take is PFT, but you can criticize MJ for never being an activist, but the one thing that he has always done is he's been pretty true to himself and that he's like, this is kind of how I feel and how I'm going to do it. And it doesn't feel fake at any point. I agree. So you can, you can always point from the outside and be like, I wish this person would say more about this or that, but it's tough to tell somebody like what to actually do

when you're in their shoes. Like that's a completely different thing. If you just want to keep to yourself and go about your business, his life was not as a politician. His public life was not, you know, as a policymaker or as, you know, somebody who, who stood out there for, uh, for social issues, his job was a basketball player. And if he didn't feel comfortable doing that, I've always found it tough to criticize somebody for not kind of going out of their lane a little bit.

If it's not important enough to them to do it, it's, it's actually, and it speaks to the greater like theme of these two episodes that people wanted MJ to fit in a perfect like box and they wanted him to be the perfect guy and everything. And they wanted him to be as politically active as Muhammad Ali and they wanted him to not have a gambling problem and all these things. And it's like, but he, he's kind of been open with how human he is. Like these are the things I like and these are the things I'm not going to do. And yeah, you could say someone with that platform might want to speak up more, but

at the same time, he's always been consistent with that's how he's going to approach it. Yeah. And if you're, if that's the route that you want to take in public life, I find it hard to criticize somebody for not saying like what I wish they would say. Does that make sense? Like let the person be themselves a little bit. I didn't realize because I, I guess I hadn't paid that much attention to it before, but I didn't know that the dude is running against Jesse Helms, which is very, very racist.

That I think is the part that makes it like, hey, come on, MJ, if there's ever a time that you could speak up, this is the time where you didn't want to offend the air monarch, the future air monarchs, your owners of America. Right. But again, I'm not going to tell someone how to, you know, what they should and shouldn't do when it comes to just because they're a famous basketball player. And if he doesn't, you know, I just have always thought his consistency with it, at least if he went back and forth and did it when it was convenient for him, I'd have a

bigger problem with just being like either you are or you aren't. Yeah. It's an interesting study because Michael Jordan was the most famous person in the entire world, probably for, you know, 10 or 15 years. And it's like, what does somebody, can somebody like that exist without taking a stand on public platform issues? And he just kind of chose to keep to himself and focus on what was important to him. And like, you know, of course, there are certain things that people wish he would

have done differently, but I'm not going to be like, no, Michael Jordan, from my perspective, should have done this and that, because it's really easy for me to say. Right. So that was interesting, though. I thought that was the first time in the documentary where it was starting to get into a territory where it's like, hey, he's not perfect, you know, and it's interesting because there were maybe some people criticizing that it was a while. I saw Ken Burns, who like, who was heard from Ken Burns in the last 20 years said

that it was too much of a puff piece. It was like, why don't you let the whole 10, 10 episodes come out and let's then judge it. And this is, this was pretty honest that he, you know, people were not happy with MJ for this. And then we have the other moment where in episode six, people are going after him for his gambling, I've never related to anyone more than Michael Jordan saying, I don't have a gambling problem.

I can stop whenever I want, knowing that he still gambles to this day, and he hasn't wanted to stop. He has not wanted to stop. He doesn't have to. And David Stern's quote, it was something along the lines of his gambling issue was never an epic crisis of a problem. Like adding two qualifiers on there. Like he knew it was a very bad problem.

But again, this is all on a sliding scale. If you're Michael Jordan and you're rich as shit. And like he said, his family is not starving. His kids aren't starving. That's how you know it would be a problem. Then I guess he didn't have a gambling problem. He had a he had a problem when he would lose gambling because he needed to gamble more. Yeah, he had a competition problem.

He said he just wanted to compete and who doesn't want to compete. If that, you know, Jerry Curl's security guard wouldn't have beat him in the throwing the quarter against the wall competition, then he wouldn't have to gamble against that guy for the rest of his life until he made that money back. That shrug was so great. That was such a great behind the scenes moment right there. That shrug was all time. Connie Chung, by the way, I fucking I miss those interviews in the 90s

when they did like the soft focus on the camera. So everything was a little bit blurred and she dropped the, you know, people are saying you're gambling with your reputation. He was like, what do you what do you mean? Like, what are you fucking talking about? I like to play blackjack and I like to lose a shitload of money because I think I'm better at golf than I am. Right. All alone, all in all, losing, you know, five, six figures at a time,

playing blackjack is not that bad of a vice considering what the alternatives could have been for somebody with his high profile. Right. So yeah, he likes to gamble. OK, everyone's got advice. If you don't have advice, then you've got some serious like Marv Albert didn't have a gambling problem, you know, but. That's you pay, by the way. I forget. I forgot how apparent Marv Albert's to pay has been through history.

Go ahead, Hank. One thing that I do think is a common misconception because it was for me before we moved to New York is that Atlantic City is really not near New York City whatsoever. So he'd be like, yeah, I just wanted to get out of the city for a little while. It's four hours to get there, like four long hours. That story when he was like, yeah, we were there to like, you know, we went to gamble a little play a little blackjack that was home by like 1230.

He's like, dude, no chance he was home by 1230. No, yeah, you would have to leave Atlantic City at like 915 to get home by midnight. It didn't happen. He probably took a helicopter. You know, I said he took a limo. But yeah, he might have taken one pack. But at the end of the day, it's like he's not hurting anyone. And he like he said, he has a lot of money and he gambles it to fucking.

I remember that book, by the way, about that that the guy that the skinist guy. The Michael and me, he basically wrote a book because MJ wouldn't pay his debt. Like that that was like the ultimate nerd move to be like, you know, like the mafia breaks your your kneecaps. This is skinist, bro, just wrote a fucking book being like, I played golf with MJ. He owes me a shitload of dough. It'd be real shame if this story would end up on the New York Times bestseller list. Like, yeah, that's a Michael and me in a loser threat to make.

Yeah. Yeah. And that picture. And then, of course, I mean, it's pretty shocking that that MJ as late as 92, 93 was hanging out with Slim Bowler and being like, like, that's Slim Bull, a guy named Slim with Jerry Curle and like a golf. He's all known as a golf hustler. That's just going to get you in trouble every time. Was it like 90% of people named Slim? They're when they fill out their income taxes, they write hustler as their profession.

So great. I mean, I think everybody should have still hanging with them. Everybody should have a friend named Slim that all they do is gamble with. Yeah. But that was such a funny scene. And then, yeah, MJ was like, yeah, $57,000 check. I had to pay him because I lost in golf. So it's, you know, I'm sure we'll get a little darker when we get to the next episode when we talk about MJ's dad getting murdered.

But there there is an element of like people going after him for the politics stuff and the gambling stuff. They just they wanted this perfect thing and it just doesn't exist. Yeah, it's almost like it was almost like you can make the the the analogy to like pre, you know, Tiger getting caught for having like a sex addiction. You have these athletes. No athlete is perfect. You think you know these human beings, but they're not perfect.

And there's a lot. And, you know, it starts with the Jordan rules book and then the Isaiah stuff and then the political activism and then the gambling. Like it becomes a hey, this guy is not exactly the perfect guy that you think he is. He's unbelievable at basketball and he's rough around the edges. What are you going to do? Right. If you gave the average person in America the attention, the level of fame and the money that Michael Jordan had in the year 1998 and just sent them out

into the wild, I guarantee you almost every single person would get into some more messed up shit than Michael Jordan did. Michael Jordan, I mean, to be fair, like, yeah, he's not perfect. He did some bad stuff. And I think like his personality comes out as hyper competitive personality rubs people the wrong way. And that's part of who he is. And that's part of how he, you know, achieved the level of greatness that he did.

But at the end of the day, like most people, if they if they were put in that situation, they would fuck up way worse than Michael Jordan did. So I don't have a problem with that. And when what when Ken Burns is like, oh, this isn't a real documentary. He's like, yeah, no shit, Ken Burns. OK, like your Ken Burns, you you bleed capital J journalism. It's like Mozart complaining that Nickelback, you know, it doesn't write good enough music.

It's like, yeah, this documentary is not like capital J journalism. Michael Jordan had the ultimate sign off on it. He had Final Cut or whatever. We're here to watch a story about Michael Jordan featuring awesome behind the scenes footage. I'm going to enjoy doing that. Right, right. Other notes I had. So the grudge meter.

Oh, the BJ Armstrong strong quote when he was like in that 92 season, they were all playing and MJ just was figuring out ways to win games. Like he wasn't really like it wasn't even a game to him. He was just like, I'm just going to win the game when I want to. Like everyone else is playing basketball. He's just winning games. The Suns coach. How about how about in the finals against the Suns when this is how you know

that you're going to lose when your coach starts screaming? We're not going to let Jordan beat us. Like that's his strategy is just to scream loudly that we're not going to let Jordan beat us. At that point, Jordan's already won. Dude, that and Charles just seeing skinny Charles and Charles Barkley was so goddamn good. It's it's kind of like he's gotten so fat and, you know, not winning a title.

But again, he lost to Michael Jordan in that moment where he said in game two, when he's like, I played the best game of my life and MJ just outplayed me. I went back and looked at the box score. He Charles had forty two, thirteen and four and MJ had forty two, twelve and nine. He just like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? So and I do love so there was there were some more grudges that were that were settled. So Clyde Drexler in episode five,

when that's just the media saying that Clyde and MJ are on the same level. So that's not even Clyde Drexler doing that. MJ was just like, fuck this guy, he's not on my level. Barkley in in the ninety three series because Barkley wins the MVP, which weirdly enough, like you could make the case that MJ should have won the MVP all six years that they won the titles, but they gave it to to Barkley in ninety three and they gave it to Malone in ninety seven because of the MJ fatigue. In a weird way, that just made it more unfair for the rest of the league

by being like, you're not the MVP, you're not the best player in the league this year. OK, how's Michael Jordan going to react to that? He's going to fucking rip their heart out. So he had Barkley and then Dan Marley, another Jerry Krauss, where Jerry Krauss is like, I love Dan Marley. And then Michael Jordan is like, you know, fuck that. If you like him, I hate him. I'm going to tell Dan. Yeah.

And when Paxton hits that shot and you see Dan Marley, just Dan Marley almost pulls the Craig Elo and falls to the ground. Yes. When John Paxton releases that shot, he's like, I know this is going in. Pax, what a hero. He's going to have a nice come up. Yeah. And it's actually it's actually perfect that he's not in his job anymore because I feel like that would have been the reception of like every time they show him. It's like, fuck this guy.

Now he can't hurt. He can't hurt us anymore. So you're free to celebrate the shot again. Yeah, the shot brings up good feelings, good timing. But it was yeah, it was good, good two two episodes. I really do kind of wish we just had these one episode every night for 10 consecutive nights because they're all just so good. And I just want to I want to watch them all right now.

It's kind of rare that you get done watching Leroy. What are you doing? Sorry, Leroy is eating an entire Indian dinner off my coffee table. Oh, OK. That's a wild move to have an Indian dinner just sitting on your coffee table. Spin it out. That's not I'm not going to blame Leroy for that one. That's that's on you.

He's blind. Why the hell he can he can find none from across the room. Yeah, it still eats anything that is like height, you know, her height level. It's never my fault. I mean, it's never it's never her fault. It's always my fault. Sorry, Leroy, go to your crate. He doesn't know where it's greatest. OK, we'll watch something that's two hours long.

So each of these, you know, each Sunday night we sit down, we watch two hours of the drawing documentary. And afterwards, I feel better. I feel less tired after watching anything else, any movie that I watch. I'm like, OK, time to go to bed afterwards. Now it's like I want to stay up later, watch more of this, or at least, you know, watch some basketball on TV. I actually had that thought during this, like how sad it is

that we don't have an NBA finals this year. Maybe we will. But it's there's just so much history in the NBA finals. It's one of those things that I mean, I guess it's for all sports and their championships. You just remember where you were when you watch these things. And it's like, oh, I write a passage on the calendar like, oh, June comes around like, this is NBA finals time.

Like, where is it? So I'm a little sad. I had that moment whenever it gets to when we get to like the end of May, early June, you're like, shit, this is when the NBA finals should be going on. I thought it was great. Yeah. I had two other guys having like playoff, playoff ecstasy. Yeah, yes, yes, yeah, one NBA. You're right.

We should be dealing with like overtime hockey games right now. Fans get a game set. There should be a game set. There probably was a game seven today. God damn it. The other two notes I had that depressed me. The other two notes that I had was how cool the Dream Team cups were at McDonald's back in 1992.

I saw those pictures earlier today. That's all I could think about was like putting those in the dishwasher and taking them out and they're immediately like half of David Robinson's body is going on them after one wash. But those cups are awesome. I would go back all the time to get those. And then I was surprised that Michael Jordan laced up his own shoes before games.

I was like, he had a guy that broke in for him. He didn't trust anyone else. Like like a Jimi Hendrix strings his own guitar, probably. Yeah, could you imagine? It also probably was a third, like knowing that last episode, talking about the crush of celebrity, the the the three minutes that he got to tie his own shoes was probably a nice. It's like taking away and sticking hockey.

Yeah, he could you imagine playing an entire basketball game in ones at like 14 years after that was the hottest new shoe? It's crazy. Oh, it's crazy. The ones they they know you might be able to play in the ones they made back then. I can't even imagine another big loser. Maybe I was looking away. Maybe Leroy was eating some tikka masala off my plate when this happened. I missed it. But did they not even show the John Stark stunk?

They did. Oh, they did. OK, I must have missed that. I thought they just completely glossed over that. No, no, no, I chalked that one up to MJ having final cut. Yeah, yeah, no, they did. They did. Yeah, those those series were and we'll get to it. I'm sure they'll show the 94 series, which we talked to Horace Grant about how great that series was with all the drama and different things that went on.

All right, let's do before we get to Horace Grant and who's back. We have to talk a little NFL Andy Dalton, a Dallas cowboy. Now, do you think this is, one, a way to get Dak Prescott to the negotiating table? Or two, this is actually a legitimately good move as Andy Dalton is a backup for the Cowboys. I mean, I think he's probably one of the best backups in the league right now. You'd have a hard time convincing me otherwise. Like Andy Dalton is a very, very, very good backup quarterback.

I think it's partially that. Partially, Jerry Jones likes having a redheaded backup on a squad like he did with Jason Garrett, someone that he can he can yell at all the time. I think that it definitely applies some pressure to Dak. So Dak is on a one year tag, which as Mike Florio pointed out, could be rescinded. I love Mike just stirring the pot. Mike was like, do you think that it's occurred to Jerry Jones to just say, just tear up the one year franchise tag, walk away and say we're riding

with Andy Dalton this year? I think that's not going to happen. But no, it is definitely a little bit of leverage on the Cowboys side. It's it's also a great time to be able to write one of those stories about Andy Dalton going back to Texas, TCU from Texas, I think, so we can do the whole storyline there. Yeah, well, if he gets in it, if he gets in a big game, I just want Andy Dalton to be in a big game with Jerry Jones hopes and dreams resting on his shoulders and just have Jerry Jones is like in the in the corner box

and maybe have an Andy Dalton miked up. That really would just be all I need. You could just say Andy Dalton's miked up and not put a microphone on him and just play the silence and be like, here it is. Here's Andy Dalton getting real emotional with it. I respect the move on Andy Dalton's part, because I think he probably could have gotten as much, if not more, money to go down to Jacksonville and reunite with Jay Gruden.

But this is very clearly a move of I want to just go back home to where I'm from, which I respect the hell out of that back when I was living in Austin. I was I was hiring for a job and this dude came and I was like, why do you want to apply for this job? And he said he went on Google Maps and saw that this office was right next to his house. And so he decided to apply to work there. And I was like, done, hired because I knew he was going to suck.

And I would I would be better than him at the job. But it's I respect that move a lot. We can all sympathize with not wanting to have to deal with the commute. So the Andy Dalton news happened. And then the only other NFL news we had was the Bears officially decided not to pick up Mr. Biscay's fifth year, which I think we all sort of expected. But I'm just going to do this instead of talking about Mitch.

Let's just talk about how bad the 2017 draft was at the top. It was Miles Garrett, good, but also has a temper problem. Mr. Biscay, bad Solomon Thomas, bad Leonard Fournet, bad Corey Davis, bad everyone stinks. So, you know what? The Bears really just were average. They came after average. I only had the first five. I only had the first five.

Well, as far as the first five goes, yeah, it turns out that the teams that were John Ross, John Ross came after that job drafting at the top that year. Yeah, John Ross, here's a spin zone for you. He's never played an approved year. Maybe he's just like a guy that that needs that extra motivation. If you don't think I've had the thought that Mr. Biscay is going to somehow have an incredible year and then like hold the Bears over the over the negotiating table and just be like,

go ahead, pay me and then and then go back to sucking after the Bears pay him. Like that is, of course, how it's going to happen. Would you rather that or he kicks ass this year and then he looks at not getting that fifth year's disrespect and then he goes to, let's say, the Lions and then he beats your ass. I it's all going to end poorly. I don't know how, but it will. You end up being good somehow.

Speaking of Bears, was this was this picture of Big Ben with a bear real? I think so. I'm going to choose to believe that it's real because he looks like a mountain man. What? I didn't see this. Oh, yeah. Big Ben killed the shit out of a black bear. Oh, yeah, then it's definitely real. Because he looks he looks like a dude that has been lost in a hundred retreat for the last 18 months.

So yeah, he doesn't shock me at all that he would take down a bear. He could have been an extra in Revenant. Oh, dude, Big Ben, why got to kill that bear, man? He could have been an extra in Revenant as a bear. Yeah. Oh, that sucks. I feel bad for that bear. He's like the bears like looking right in our face. Like, yo, what's up, dudes?

I'm dead. You know, it occurred to me the other day. The only time we get upset about a big animal getting killed is if the animal had a name beforehand. Well, yeah, when I try to say the lion. Our sweet prince. Don't even say our sweet prince, dude. I I didn't I totally didn't realize this.

But did you realize that Slim Boller had his golf clubs in his courtroom sketch? That is awesome. He came off the links into the courtroom. Was he wearing his spikes? Look at that. That is so fucking cool at the courtrooms. I don't I mean, that's unbelievable. Or was that like, was that the artist taunting him?

Like, like Alexander Vets can get bounced in the playoffs and they just draw him with his golf clubs. That's so fucking funny. That's that's awesome. That's that's better than Tom Brady courtroom sketch. Slim Boller, dude. That guy was trouble from the word go. I got to take up and squat and on for a second.

I think the time's right to unleash it with your permission. I will. Yeah, go ahead. Permission to deploy. I think the Blake Bortles is being blackballed by the NFL because he drives a Tesla and because the league sponsors are motor oil companies, Castrol, Havillain, other competing rivals against Elon Musk and Tesla. He's going to get a job.

He's probably knowing Blake. He probably has a contract sitting on his like kitchen table. He just hasn't gotten around to signing it like us in the premier lacrosse league contracts. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we that's economics lesson. Yeah, yeah, he's going to be fine. I hope he's not getting blackballed.

No offense to the word bold. Yeah. All right. Let's get to our who's back before we do that. A quick word from our friends at 1-800-Flowers in the past, waiting until the last minute to order a Mother's Day bouquet from 1-800-Flowers might have worked out fine. This year is different, though, with limited delivery. It's important to lock in your bouquets order right now.

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Go to 1-800-Flowers.com, click the radio icon, enter code PMT, order today and save at 1-800-Flowers.com code PMT. OK, let's see who's back. And by the way, who's back is Mother's Day, which don't like there's probably someone listening right now who it just went in their head and they're like, oh, shit, Mother's Day is this week. Yes, Mother's Day is this week. So go to 1-800-Flowers.com right now and click that radio icon, use code PMT

because you're an idiot. If you screw up Mother's Day this year, like your mom is probably so sick of being in the house, having to whether you move back home, whatever it may be. Don't screw it up. Don't screw it up. Your mom is sick of just hanging out with your dad all day long every day. She's dying to hear from you. She's dying to get a gift from you.

If you screw this one up, you're out of the will. You're out of the will. OK, Hank, you're who's back. Speaking of wills, I watched who's who's knives out this weekend. Good movie. My who's back the week is Mike Tyson. Yes. OK, yeah, I saw that clip. So there's been a few clips recently in the past few months

of Mike Tyson throwing punches, working out training. He looks faster than any fighter still today. But it brought me to this question. People say, like, how much money would it take for you to take a punch from Mike Tyson and his prime? How much money would it take you guys to just be his trainer? Like, just to be the guy that has to, like, potentially get, you know, have him miss and get hit in the face.

Right. How much would that cost? A hundred thousand dollars a session for me because I'm not coordinated enough to remember, like, all the steps and all the moves. I got a terrible short term memory, so I would definitely get knocked out in the first session. Yeah, it's the question is actually the same. Like, how much would it take to get punched by Mike Tyson? How much would it take to be his trainer? Because you're going to get punched unless you have the skills of a trainer.

If you if you just put us in that role, we absolutely would take one of the face. And it probably would suck even more because you wouldn't even be really expecting it. So it's a lot, a lot of money. The one thing with Mike Tyson, he is one of those guys who even at the end of his career, like you can just talk yourself into if he just catches someone. In boxing is that one sport where you can always say to yourself, oh, man, it's like when Conor McGregor fought Floyd Mayweather, like, well, what if he catches him once? What if he catches him once?

Mike Tyson, even at the end, when he was clearly like done and washed up, you're like, well, if he just catches Lennox, Lennox Lewis once here, it could be lights out. So I would I'd still buy a pay-per-view with Mike Tyson fighting anyone just so that I could convince myself he'd have that one shot in and it'd be lights out. Yeah, that clip of him when he was training, it's almost scary or watching Mike Tyson when he's in between punches and just like bobbing and weaving and moving his huge ass back and shoulders back and forth.

That's almost more intimidating than the punches because when the punches hit the mitts, you can be a shitty boxer. But if you make like really good contact with one of those training pads, it sounds awesome. It's all about the trainer. It's about the trainer throwing the pad into the punch as well. Yeah, giving it a little like pop. Yeah, going there you go, champ. It's like a great catcher being able to pop that that glove when you throw,

you know, like a 65 mile an hour fastball. Yeah, framing it to a little bit. Yeah, hit that one square on the head. I think I would rather get my ear bitten off right now by Mike Tyson than take a punch from him. That's actually a funny idea to think about, like, who are the simps of sports? The trainer and boxing, the catcher, like who can who can prop up their man as he's trying to look awesome center.

Yeah, the center just just prop them up, make them be the king. Uh huh. Yeah, definitely the whole back coach on the sidelines. Yeah, the holder in in in in kicking in football, definitely. And the like, there's not really a sim sim position basketball. Caddy on the golf course. No, sim position in basketball, like a really good point guard, throwing perfect passes to guys like, you know, cutting to the lane. Yeah, but they're still getting shine for that.

Alley hoops, though. Yeah, I guess they do get shines. But but maybe maybe centers, centers, caddies, all those other positions are true to sim positions. Guys, guys who just run picks left and right and don't really roll. They don't have hands to roll. The guy that runs out on the court, he doesn't even have the the Libman mop. He's just got the towel and he has to like wipe down the floor with his with his hand and a towel in between plays.

You know, who's a simp? Clint, Clint Capella, because he's he runs the pick and roll. But when he runs a pick and roll and actually gets the dunk, it's because someone has given him a great pass. So he kind of is in a no win situation where either he runs the pick and the and the person who's, you know, he's running a four shoots and scores. He's the simp or he rolls and he just catches it right in front of the hoop and dunks.

Right. But my point was more like simps like no one knows. Besides David Andrews, you don't know any center's names. You don't know the cat Saturday. Like there's a lot of right. But for the most part, like, you know every basketball player's name. There are some positions where it's just like you don't know and you never will know who that guy is. Hmm. Yeah. I mean, there's all simps on the basketball.

On the basketball court, there's like the backup power forward that comes in just to give fouls and his like his teammate fouls somebody, but it's his responsibility to hold his hand up. Be like, no, that one was on me. Like taking those for another man. Yeah. Mark Titus is a simp. In a basketball game, in a basketball. Trillion anyone that anyone that can get a trillion.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. PFT. Who's your who's back? My who's back of the week is NFL announcing the release date of their scheduled release date. So this is one of the best traditions in sports. It always happens like right after the Masters is over, like this time of year when the NFL comes out and they they don't say that they're releasing the schedule, but they do say that they are about

to announce when the schedule release date is going to be. And so today on Sunday, they announced that it was going to take place later on this week with an announcement to come later about when that exact day of when the schedule release will be released. I feel like it's usually on a Thursday, which would be great because then we can break down the whole schedule. Also huge for this weekend. You know, I don't know.

People are like tuning into the news because there's really nothing going on now. We're just kind of stuck. But Florio did have a report where in Florio is definitely like clued in and talking to the right people that it's basically a zero percent chance, not a zero percent chance, but like almost a zero percent chance that there is no football this fall. And yeah, not only that, but the NFL is fully planning on having fans as well. So it was one of those quiet like, Hey, this seems good.

What do you look at me like that? Hey, the NFL is speaking it into existence. It's great. Like they're just saying we're going full send on this season. We're going to announce the schedule. There's not going to be any Saturday games because you know what? They're banking on college football existing in the fall, too. So it's a little bit of good news that was buried a little bit. And I agree with the big cat.

It's usually on a Thursday. So yes, part of my take is announcing that the NFL's schedule announcement is going to take place on Thursday. And then we'll break down every single every single game. Yeah, just speak it into existence in a file. If you just keep going on, like it's going to happen. I believe you that it's going to happen. My other who's back of the week is the mountain,

the mountain from Game of Thrones is back. He set the world record in deadlift on Saturday morning. He deadlift eleven hundred pounds, sorry, eleven hundred four pounds. So he beat the world record by, I think, like one kilogram, whatever that is. That's probably like 10 pounds. I don't know. Did you see that still compete the hound even with the high ground, though? True. True. It's true. We all know that.

Do you see the ESPN did a what is that correlate into like random things? Kind of a rebel tweet. Four point four or sorry, four JJ Watts, 16 Golden Retrievers, thirty two Stanley Cup trophies. But here's the one that I don't get. Seven hundred and eighty nine basketballs. I feel like I could pick up seven hundred and eighty nine basketballs. Basketball is way nothing.

Basketball is they way more when they're deflated than they do when they're full, right? I don't think that that can physically be possible. Yeah, but I know it's not possible at all. But you know what I'm saying? Like you would think like how we're saying on the last show that the weights that are made out of metal way more than the exact same weights that are made out of rubber. Yes, that I agree with the basket with a deflated basketball looks a lot heavier than a full basketball.

But I'm saying seven hundred and eighty nine basketballs that are fully inflated. I feel like if you had asked me before this, how many basketballs could you pick up? I would have said at least three hundred, which I can't clearly now because that's like five hundred pounds. But I don't know. I think you could do three hundred basketballs. And it's like five hundred pounds. When you put it in the terms of how much is that basketball

that you're holding right now, way, Hank? Nothing, nothing, nothing. Exactly. Can you break three hundred of those seven hundred and eighty nine of those? No problem. You know what? They should actually do these powerlifting sports with the golden retrievers one, though. Like so many more people would watch if you're having bad ratings,

just like load up clear boxes filled with happy golden retrievers on each side and pick them up. Although that would get what? Or yeah, have just cloned JJ Watt a bunch of times and have him have him just get picked up by things. But yeah, it's crazy seeing seeing a dude lift eleven hundred pounds. And the dude that he passed was a guy named Eddie Hall. And when Eddie Hall set the previous dead lift record,

he picked it up and he flexed on the haters and just stood at the top of his lift for like six seconds. And then he started spontaneously bleeding from his nose and he passed out. And I think he went home and slept for like 20 hours just from lifting that one thing up. Yeah, his heart was his heart rate was so off the charts that the doctors thought that their machine was broken. They kept on testing his heart rate and he was just bleeding out of his eyes

and his nose. Yeah. Yeah. He like contracted. He gave himself a bullet from lifting to too much of a heavy weight. But I don't go to the gym. Looked like you could have done more. Good call, Hank. Very good. OK, my who's back the week is saying we're taking back our fears, guys.

The murder hornet. I saw the story. Everyone's getting freaking out about the murder hornet. I think it's because there's just nothing else going on. I'm officially done with being scared as the murder hornet. The murder hornet is some fucking hornet in Japan that can like kill a bunch of bees. You know who else can kill a bunch of bees? Me. I can kill a bunch of bees.

I could swat a bunch of bees in one second and everyone's like, well, it's got spikes and all this shit. Fuck the murder hornet. If I can kill something with a newspaper, it's not a problem. It's not a problem. I'd rather be Mike Tyson's trainer or stuck in a room with one single murder hornet. I'd the murder hornet. I'd fuck the murder hornet.

I would fuck the murder hornet. The problem with the murder hornet. This is why I selected the murder hornet. You didn't select the murder hornet. I just selected all hornet. I select that's very different than the murder hornet. Is the murder hornet a hornet? No, no, it's not a hornet.

Yes, it's a different type of bear. It's a grizzly bear, a black bear, a hornet. I said a hornet. This is a single hornet. Therefore, it counts. The murder hornet. The reason why I picked the hornet in the first place is because it was the only one that I just wanted to annoy somebody, right?

Like having one hornet probably isn't going to kill you, but nothing's going to piss you off more than having like just not seeing anything coming and just getting stung by a fucking hornet. That's the worst. That'll ruin your day. That'll ruin your day way more than having to deal with like a mountain line. You just picked a regular hornet. I picked eight hornets.

What do you say is a type of hornet? How about this? Well, then you have to specify the bears, too. We'd specified bears. We specified everything else. I thought you said a bear. No, I think we said grizzly bear, black bear. No, I think this is definitely a single.

This is a single hornet that could kill you. But Big Cat, would you rather be Mike Tyson's trainer or be locked in a room with a single murderous hornet? But you don't know where it is when you start when you walk the hornet. I would guys, why are we afraid of a fucking like juiced up bee? Get the fuck out of here. I will die from bees things every year than than hornets.

This this murder hornet. This sounds like when you said you would contract Corona. Yeah, it does. Guess what? And I'm fine. I'm fine. Do I will I will face this murder hornet? I'm sick of letting everyone fear porn has become the number one industry in America right now. It's fucking the the the coronavirus causing strokes.

And then they're like, hey, guess what? Maybe it only happens like once every thousand, 100,000 people, but you should probably check it out. There could be strokes. We're all going to die. Everything's going to there's too much meat. The oil is there's too much oil. We're going to burn ourselves with oil.

They'd have the Antarctica shells fucking disappearing. Murder hornets are coming. Fuck everything. I'm done letting fear take over my life. Did the murder hornet. The fear is totally justified. No, it's not a murder horn. It is. You know why it's not because it'll necessarily fuck you up, Big Cat.

But if you're a beekeeper, it goes, it kills your entire hive. We've already dealing with the colony collapse. No, not the beekeepers. Colony collapse is a real issue. And if you if colony collapse continues at the same pace that has been over the last six months, according to the Internet, fear porn, Twitter follows that I follow,

then our entire world is going to blow up. So it's it's such a joke, man. What about the pollen, Big Cat? Dude, people people have just become sick. They're sick. They just love to just get everyone scared about everything ever. I'm done. I'm the only one that's standing up for bees. I'm done with it.

I'm done with being scared about random things that get posted in a fucking New York Times, you know, article just so that everyone can send it around to each other and be like, oh, my God, look at what this is what's happening now. Tomorrow, it's going to be a new thing. I don't care. I'm being afraid. I'm taking back fear. You know, what's crazy is is you know how we're overdue

on that super volcano that exists underneath Yellowstone? We're also we're also way overdue on the article reminding us about how we're overdue on the super volcano underneath Yellowstone. That's going to be the next one up. It's like, hey, 2020 couldn't get bad enough. Guess what? They also never caught the guy that sent that anthrax out. Like we're going to have to recycle a lot of these old fear porn stuff

that haven't made their way to the top of the news cycle recently. Yep. Terrorists haven't been around for a while. We're going to have to have another one of those, you know, scare tactics. Like, oh, there's terror cells everywhere coming to kill us all. I'm surprised we haven't seen an article where it's like, you know, what the vaccine is eating little babies, all this shit. It's just it's just ruining all of our brains. Our brains are becoming diseased, rotten fear.

Just things just on top of our shoulders. And it's just bullshit. I saw some article today where they're like, they actually think the coronavirus is mutating so much. We won't get a vaccine. Shut up. Yes, we will. I'm also seeing people saying that that Bill Gates is trying to kill everybody with his vaccine that he's created.

Yeah, you know, things have gotten out of hand. I've been on that train going back to our first deep dive with Billy Popol. When you're afraid of Bill Gates, when you're afraid of that little nerd that couldn't even make Windows 2000 correctly, if you think that he's going to be able to murder billions of people using a vaccine. Now you're the one who's who is trafficking in fear porn. I'm done with it. I'm done with it. I'm saying goodbye to it. I'm taking back my life.

I will not be shocked by any any stupid article that tells me there's one in a billion chance that I'm going to die from some fucking little B that's flying around in Japan. That's it. It killed 10 people last year. Oh, wow. Damn. How many people? How many people have died because they couldn't get to their EpiPen quick enough? I don't know.

My girl, Macaulay Culkin. Yes, lots. All right, let's get to our interview. We got Horace Grant talks some awesome MJ stories being on the three Pete, the first three Pete for the bulls playing on the magic, the Lakers. He has so much history. Great interview with him before we do that, though, a word from our friends at Butcher box when it comes to meat quality matters, but there's more to it than texture and taste.

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Butcher box dot com slash take. You will not be disappointed. I'm personally guaranteeing that you will love your butcher box. Butcher box dot com slash take. OK, now Horace Grant. OK, we now welcome on a very special guest. It is four time NBA champion Horace Grant. Horace, thank you for joining us.

It's everyone's obviously talking about the last dance. We want to talk about your entire career, but let's start there. And what has it been like to watch to go back in time and see all this stuff? See a young Horace Grant, see all of the stories be retold on a national stage? Well, looking back on it, reminiscing, if you will, kind of making me wish I was 22, 23 again, you know, it was some some great years. We had a fun time, a great run there in Chicago.

But just the camaraderie that that we had as a team, the confidence that we had as a team when we got out there on the floor. So you've been watching the series. Is there anything that's that's been on so far? I know we're only what four episodes in right now. I assume you've probably seen the whole thing. Is that right? Yeah, I've seen all of all the episodes except well, I got the the pre copies.

So I've seen most of it. Yeah, got you. Is there anything so far in the series that you've seen that you think was told in a different way than you remembered experiencing it at the time? The first four episodes. Not really, not not anything in particular. I didn't know that Doug and Michael got along that well. But the talk was our coach for about a year, year and a half. I didn't know they got along that well.

But the documentary shows that they were best friends. Well, I actually there's a good, good spot to bring it up because I know five and six. We're going to run this on Monday after five and six. And I saw at least the clip that ESPN put out about five and six. About five and six. They're addressing the Jordan rules book, the famous book that has gotten read, which does have a part about how, you know, M.J. doesn't, you know, doesn't go back to Chicago for a practice

and blows Doug Collins off Christmas Eve. But M.J. accuses you obviously of being one of the sources for the Jordan rules book. Are you have you guys had a conversation about that since, you know, he's accused you of that. Have you talked it through? Because from my perspective, that was a book that had to be written by a lot of people talking and you might have been one of them. But there had to be a lot of people who were speaking on that.

Guys, that is so untrue. That that is just like a blank, just a blank lie. Sam, Sam Smith quoted myself via Cartwright, John Paxson and a whole bunch of others in that book. And what he quoted us is what we said. And for M.J. to say I was the source of this book, that's a lie. That's a downright lie. And he knows that and, you know, come to think of it.

Sam Smith spent more time with with Bill Pax. Tex Winner, Johnny Bach, even M.J. He spent time with M.J., played golf with, played golf a few times with M.J. Was in M.J. rule. So I don't know where that come that that I was the source behind the book. That's a straight up lie. So let me ask you this as a follow up because it's fascinating.

A lot of times we're watching this and everyone's saying, well, could you imagine social media error? Like what would it would look like if we knew some of these things are going on? But the Sam Smith book kind of was what like the social media error is now in that we got an inside look of a team and some of the dirty stuff. And some of the, you know, behind the scenes stuff and it was a big, big deal. Did it change the locker room at all? Did you feel your relationship change with Michael at all after that book comes out?

Well, Michael and I really didn't have a great relationship. We had, we respected each other as teammates in terms of us having one goal and that one goal was to win championship. We didn't hang out that much off the court. He had his cellar friends. I had my cellar friends. You know, only person I really hung out with was, you know, Scotty. I mean, we were at places together all the time.

So I thought changing, I think you have to ask MJ that question because, you know, we won't close at all during that, especially when that book came out. Did you reach out to him when it came out and he said all this stuff about you? You try to clear the air up, or did you know that he was just saying that knowing it wasn't true because, you know, he had his ulterior motives or he wanted to explain away some parts of it? I mean, I have never read the book. I don't think it's good for the team. Is it good?

Yeah. Kudos to Sam. Kudos to Sam. I don't know if anybody on the team read it either, but during that time. But I think MJ already had his mind made up in terms of who he thought the source was for Sam to write their book. And, you know, like I said, you know, MJ and I never saw I on a whole bunch of things. And maybe he wanted to say that, you know, I was the guy.

So my teammates can look, my teammates can look at me in a different way. But, you know, I'm the type of guy that, you know, if you come at me the wrong way, you know, it's not going to happen. Right. You know, you know, it's not going to happen. I'm cut from a different call, you know, I'm a safe as a man, what I have to say. And then we can go from there. So, but no, I didn't have anything in terms of the sensitivity

from that locker room going into Sam's book. No, I did not. So knowing that you guys weren't the best of friends, as you just said, and I think a lot of people know, but I think MJ always had respect for you. And how did you gain that respect? Because like we hear the stories all the time about how he would test all of his teammates and you hear stories about some teammates getting traded or being gone because they couldn't stand up for themselves

when they were being tested. Was there a moment in time? Because I know even going back, like when you got drafted, he didn't want, he didn't want Jerry Krause to draft you. So he called you dummy, right? Based on your first year. Well, he called me a whole bunch of things my first year. And believe me, I called him a whole bunch of things, too, as a rookie.

You know, when you come into a situation like that and you know that, you know, the star player on that team didn't want you, you got a chip on your shoulder, you got something to prove. And, you know, I worked my butt off. You mean my mentor was Charles Oakley. Man, I mean, what a great human being when I say that and I say that sincere. He taught me so much, especially in practice. He used to kick my butt, you know, over 60, 80 percent of the time in practice.

But I learned from him. And I just kept working, man. And, you know, I guess you can say the rest is his. Yeah, was there a moment because I feel like Charles Oakley might even be a guy where it's harder to gain his respect in a sense than MJ? Because Oakley was a tough dude, still is a tough dude. Was there a moment in practice when you were like, I don't know if I can hang with this guy? Man, that was almost every day.

I mean, in terms of the physicality, the pushing, the shoving, you know, he, you know, I could have laid down, but I know that being around Oakley, all of those those moments that I couldn't quit. I had to stand up and do whatever I had to do to show him that I could earn his respect. One of the best parts of the documentary so far was your reaction to that Piston series where they walked off the court, didn't shake your hand. I think you called him little bitches.

Have you heard from anybody on the Pistons about that? Well, you know, the ironic thing about that was I I never knew that what MJ said about the Pistons. I guess after game three, you know, saying they they didn't deserve to be champion, they messed the game up and all of that. If I had known that I don't think I would have called them bitches. I would have said cry baby. But to answer your question, I talked to Isaiah Thomas

and we had a great, great conversation, man. I mean, and I see Isaiah all the time and also weekend. We I mean, we have great conversations. So we had a great conversation about everything and it's cool. I just put it that way. That that moment where you guys beat the Pistons and knowing everything that had come before that,

like I actually was kind of shocked. They didn't go deeper into the migraine game, the Scotty migraine game, knowing that you were so close with Scotty. What was Michael's reaction to that? Because you can still see it on his face that he doesn't really believe that Scotty had a migraine. And that probably speaks to his psychopath, you know, competitiveness, where he's like, nothing could ever stop me.

When that happens, are you, you know, right after the game, are you like, yes, Scotty clearly had a migraine or do you side with MJ a little bit and be like, it's crazy. He wasn't able to compete in Game 7. Listen, when you have migraines and I had a couple of migraines, when you have migraines, man, you can, it's blurry. You can't see the noise is crazy. There's no way Scotty could have functioned out there with those migraines.

And he did have a migraine, man. And for, for us, I mean, for the people who second guess that, I mean, I don't know if you can say, you know, you know, they can kiss my ass, you know, that's, that's crazy, man. And for, and I saw when they asked MJ about that, and, you know, he licked his lip and smirked a little bit. The dude, that was your sidekick, that was your second in command. He had a migraine.

Yeah, that's my thing. So, so I want to move on to the rest of your career besides the three Pete, but I wanted to, I was wondering, like, what's the moment in the three Pete that sticks out the most to your, what series sticks out the most to you? Obviously the, my favorite, you know, Horace Grant moment is, is the sons, the block on KJ, the extra pass to Paxton and the possession before. But when you think back, like, what's that moment for you? Well, that moment, man, I would have to say that was a great moment,

me personally, but as a team, I would have to say the Portland series when, when, you know, the starters, we weren't up to par and Phil took us out. I think he just kept scouting. Took me in MJ out and put the bench in and the bench brought us all the way back. I think that was one of my proudest moments because it was, it was teamwork. I mean, it just proves to you in practice. I mean, the first guy is important. The number 12 guy is important because we pushed each other in practice.

And when that time came for us, for our teammates to come in and carry us from Stacey King, Scott William, Bobby Hansen, all the guys came in and did their job. Would you say that that moment is better than when puff daddy dropped your name and said, I'm trying to get my hands on some grants like Horace and all about the Benjamin's? Hey, well, I would say the bull, but I still love getting my hands on the grand play, Horace. That's got to be like his real moment, right? It's like he was like the world's biggest rapper at the time. Just name checks you in his biggest song.

That's some serious clout. Hey, when the super rappers like Puff Daddy, Pee Daddy drops your name in one of his songs, you made it. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get any residuals off that? You ever like, hey, puff daddy, how about you throw me a couple of grants? Shit.

I'm still waiting for the check, man. So, so I'm curious the 94 team, the team that Michael goes and plays baseball, great team, 55 wins all time series against the Knicks. Is that, you know, was that series because you guys are trying to prove something? Was that series the hardest series you played in? Was that series, you know, the most you've ever wanted something? Because that, you know, the, there's so many famous moments from it, but that series to me, like you and Scotty were like,

we got to prove something here. We're trying to go for a four P. It was like being out in the desert and you walk for hours without water and you want that water. That's how bad, not just me and Scotty, but myself, BJ, Pete Myers, all of us on that team wanted that championship so badly because during that time with MJ, of course, he deserved all the accolades and attention, all of that. He deserved because he was our leader and our best player, but we were called the joint nears and that was okay.

But still, we knew that we had something to prove, not just to ourselves, but to basically the whole world that we were capable of definitely being professional and winning the championship. Do you think, do you think Scotty fouled Hubert Davis? No chance. There's no chance in hell that Hubert Davis, no disrespect to Hubert, but there is no way that Scotty Pippen fouled Hubert Davis. That series actually could be its own 30 for 30 because it had the Scotty sitting out Tony

Cucco chitting the game winner. It had a fight that basically changed the rules of fighting in the NBA. It had that Hubert Davis thing. It had the Ewing dunk, Pippen on Ewing, like it had everything. Oh, I mean, if someone wanted to make a 30 for 30, that would be the series, man. I mean, in terms of dunking on Ewing, the fight, as you said, that non-foul, you know, that's one of the toughest situations I've ever been in seeing that so-called foul. The end of that game, when Tony Cucco gets the last shot and Scotty says,

take me out of the game, you're good friends with Scotty Pippen. To see him do something like that during a game where everybody on the outside was talking about, if it happened now, Skip Bayless wouldn't shut up about it for probably three months. But at the time, you're his good friend after that game's over. Do you talk to him? You're like, hey, Scotty, what the hell's going on? Why'd you do that? Or did you have his back?

Oh, we had some conversation there. And then a question to the public got there. Scotty's our best player in the MVP candidate, I mean, a candidate. If Michael Jordan, if MJ was on that team, would Phil Jackson give Scotty the ball? I mean, would Scotty say, Scotty, okay, we're going to run this play for you? No, probably not. Probably not. He might say Scotty might be open.

And if he's open, you can pass it. But I think, yeah, he'd give the ball to Jordan. Exactly. But saying that, there is no excuse for Pippen to sit down like that. There was no excuse. But we know in the heat of the battle, things happen. And we addressed it as a team after the game. And Pipp apologized immensely for not getting out there on that court with his team.

And we let it go. We let it go because we knew and he knew that he was in the wrong. What I've always wondered from that play in the huddle, did anyone mention that you had run that play earlier in the year the exact play for a game winner? Because that feels like that would have been the moment like, hey, dude, it worked before. Scotty to coach game winner. See, we didn't, we didn't think about that. Yeah.

I mean, it's 25 years later, so it's easier for me to say it. Right. But the thing is that we won the game and Phil was a genius. And I'm pretty sure if Scotty could relive that moment, he would have been out there throwing Tony the ball. Okay. So that's, that's a good segue to, to Phil, because if you don't win that game, Phil is just ripped apart for having someone other than Scotty Pippin take that shot.

You, you, you played for Phil with the Bulls and the Lakers. What is it about Phil Jackson's coaching style that keeps teams together? And we see all this stuff with Dennis Robman and having them all work together. What does he do that's different than the other coaches you've had in your, in your career? Man, for, for a guy to, I want to say control, but have all these egos in check. I mean, a freaking genius. He will let you be your own person, have your own personality. You can go out and party. You can do whatever you want to do,

but it has to be in the, in the confining, the concept of when you step on that court, you have to play your role and, and, and, and do your job and, and, and play that role well. And that's what he did. He never tried to put us in the box or anything of that nature. One thing about that, that Bulls run that you guys had is there were a lot of really good defensive players on those teams, really, really good defensive players. And it seems to me like getting everybody to buy in and keep playing tough defense, even when you're going for four feet, you know, after you've had a three-peat. And when you're in LA, having those great teams and keeping them playing at a high level defensively, it takes some good motivational skills as a coach

to be able to encourage that during the year. So was it like a, was it a fear thing? Did you know, like if I, if I don't, you know, go hard on defense this game, I might, you know, see my minutes reduced or was it more about accountability to, you know, Jordan and, and Pippin who were also good defensive players? Well, we know during those championship years that in order to be successful and win championship, you have to play defense. You have to stop the other team from scoring. And we were so in tune with each other that when MJ or, or, or Scotty went for a steal and they didn't get it, they knew I had their back. And, and say, if I didn't, if I slipped up, I know Bill Cartwright was back there. He had my back. So we had that, that continuity with each other out there

and that confidence with each other. And the late great Johnny Bach was a tremendous defensive minded coach, man. Yeah. So your career is so fascinating to me because you've been part of some of the most interesting teams in NBA history. You were part of the Ascent of Jordan, the three peat bowls. You're part of the Penny Shaq magic and then the Shaq Kobe Lakers. So can I play a little what if with you? Because I feel like you're the best person to answer some of these. Absolutely guys. Go ahead. What, what if Nick Anderson makes a free throw and game one against the Rockets? That would be my fourth championship. You think so? Really? You think you win that game? Will you win that game? And you guys then keep the confidence rolling? We win that game.

Our confidence will be here. And, and then we, we just carry over with the, with the young team that we had with Shaq, Penny, Nick and Dennis Scott, very young guys at the particular time. And you get a young team confidence. Man, we wouldn't have known that we didn't supposed to be the great Elijah Juan and Clyde Drexler. We wouldn't have known that. We would just have the confidence to go out there and play. Okay. So staying on the magic. What if Penny and Shaq get along and figure out a way to get along? I would say, um, at least two or three championships. I mean, people just, they forgot about Penny and Hardaway. Six, seven, six, eight, like, um, Maddie Johnson, who could shoot the ball, very athletic. So I mean, his IQ was off the chart

when it came to basketball. You also played with three of the greatest shoe guys in the NFL. So you played with Jordan. You played with Penny, who had some of the best shoes of the entire 90s. Then you played out with Kobe and Shaq at the same time. Did you ever wear your teammate? Did you wear another man's shoes on the court? Well, back then, back in that time, you didn't, you didn't make that much money. And if you got a shoe deal, I don't, I don't care what it was, you were going to wear that particular shoe. I got you. So even if it was for 10,000 or 20,000 dollars, you want to wear that particular brand. So in the documentary, I want to get back to that a little bit because it's been really fascinating. Like watching it for the first time, I'm sure you

saw it a while ago, but, um, in the first couple episodes, and they're kind of going to carry this song they have to Jerry Krauss has been the villain of the series so far. Was it ever awkward having, um, having this guy around and everyone is just clowning him the entire time, but technically he's kind of your boss. Did that ever get uncomfortable? You know, I'm from, I'm from the South and you always would talk to respect people and a lot of guys just didn't see him as the boss. He was our boss. And a lot of time, I agreed with a lot of things that Jerry Krauss did, but for me saying to Jerry, uh, you crumbs and you this and that, that would have never come out of my mouth to Jerry Krauss. No, because he was the GM. And

you know, I, you know, I can't speak for anybody else, but none of that ever, ever, ever came out of my mouth. How much of that is because he stood tall drafting you instead of the guy that, you know, uh, Dean Smith and Michael Jordan wanted, wanted to draft and, and basically said, no, this is my draft pick. It's Horace Grant. Well, I mean, a lot of people don't know the story. And I won't be long-winded on it. Um, it was to the last minute. For some reason, uh, Dean Smith and maybe Michael or whoever kind of convinced Krauss to draft, uh, Joe Wolfe at the time. And I know Joe Wolfe and, um, and, uh, but Doug Collins and the rest of the coaching staff said, no, Horace Grant is our guy. So I've been told, I was told that Mr. Reinsdorf,

um, and, uh, and Jerry Krauss went out and Jerry, uh, Mr. Reinsdorf said to Jerry Krauss, look, if you draft Joe Wolfe, basically that's on you. Everybody in that room wants Horace Grant. So therefore, um, Jerry Krauss was the GM, but I have to give a lot of, a lot of respect to, uh, to Jerry Reinsdorf for kind of hitting the, you know, this is going to be a miss or a hit for you. So that's the story. Yeah. Do you ever think that you were underestimated at times because you were the Rex Spex guy? Well, when you play with two superstars like, uh, uh, Scotty and Michael, you know, you're not going to get the, the glory, if you will. Um, if you, you mean you, you, you feel that you deserve, but you're created to feel Jackson.

Um, just letting me know how important I was to the team. He relaxed everything guys. I'm telling you, he relaxed everything. Yeah. I read that, um, you, so you had the Rex Spex at the starter cure, which I love. It's an awesome look. It's a sick look. And you continued to wear them even after you got LASIK eye surgery. You were trying to be like an inspiration. Was there any weird adjustment period after you got that, that surgery where you're still wearing the goggles, but your eyes work? No, it wasn't no, really, it wasn't a, um, a big adjustment at all. I mean, when, when you have grandparents and parents coming up to you that saying that it's because of you, that my kids or my grandkids don't get bullied anymore for wearing Rex Spex.

Man, I mean, that was, that was it in itself in terms of me keeping to, to wear those. And I just took the, the correct lenses out, but it was no, no big adjustment. I got a couple more what for you. Uh, what if MJ doesn't play baseball? If MJ didn't play baseball, um, I still would have made that decision based on, uh, where I can get the best deal because you know, I was 27. They're probably going to be my last big contract. Yeah. What do you, if he, if he plays that four Pete year, do the bulls win a four in a row and like, how does that change everything? And actually what I really want to know is, cause I'm sure we're going to get this in documentary. How surprised were you when he

decided that he was going to walk away or did you see it coming? Man, I didn't see that coming at all. I mean, when you, I mean, after winning three championship, I mean, we're ready to defend what is ours. And then when he walks away and I'm like, wow, um, I mean, I don't know, um, if he was just tired or wanted to have a challenge in something else. Um, but when he walked away, we were like, Oh, wow. Okay. Now we knew as a team what we had to do. Um, we had to just work a little harder to try to, um, to get that, that championship thing. Yeah. Um, we play this game with every guest that we have. It's called headline grab where we say something and then you give us something and we're going to make a headline and get some big news out of it.

So I'll rephrase big cats question. How much money and debt was Michael Jordan from gambling when David Stern asked him to take a year off? Hey, that's something. See, I was so oblivious to a whole bunch of things guys. I'm telling you, because I was about playing basketball, partying and going home. That was me. That was me. So I, I don't know if David Stern told me to take a year off. Um, I just know MJ loved to gamble. That's what I mean. Um, even on luggage, even on, um, you know, uh, what color you think that next car going to be coming down the street. So, uh, in terms of that, I don't know if that caused his retirement or not. Would you gamble with him? Would you gamble with him on the plane

and everything? Play cards? Oh hell yeah, we did. Uh, myself, Pip, Oak, Pete, Mike, I mean a whole bunch of us was gambling. How would you do? What would you say? Are you up or down to MJ in your life gambling? Well, I can only say one thing that, um, he ran out of cash one night. Um, he didn't have enough cash on him. And of course, you know, when you don't have enough cash, you know, we loan each other money. And I think I loan him about $2,000. And of course I was talking trash every time I gave him about 400, 500. And then he got, he was so pissed that the next day he brought $2,000 worth of crispy $100 bills back. Gonna pay you back right away. All right. I got one last what if for you, uh, what happens

if you pick up the phone when Shaq calls you before he goes to the Lakers? I would beg him. I would beg him. I would get on my knees and beg him. Please stay. Please stay. I would beg him. That's, that's whatever the story goes, right? Like you, he's deciding and he called you and you missed the call and you never called him back. And the next thing you know, he's a Laker. Yes. He called me, I think two or three times. And yeah, I will never forget this, man. If I just had picked up the phone, maybe things would have been different. And I did not pick up the phone. And man, and when I heard that he signed with the Lakers, I drove from Florida to my, my mother's house in Georgia. And I stayed there for about two weeks

and just depressed as shit, man. It was like, it's like, you know, boxing Mike Tyson and he hit you in the gut. Yeah. That's how I felt at that particular time. All you had to do was pick up. Shaq was probably like, I really want to go to the, I really want to stay with the magic, but I need one person to tell me to stay and you just didn't pick up your phone. And that's why I pick up my phone all the time. You'd be really good at the blanket of your contest. Yeah. It's such a great story, though, that like you, you're sitting there and you just didn't call him back. And the next thing you know, he's on the Lakers like, Oh shit, probably should have returned that phone call.

Exactly, man. I'm going to give you a pick one from, from these three guys. If you're down one score, you're down by one point. Okay. With, with half a second left on the clock. Who do you want with the ball in their hands putting that shot up? I'm going to give you three options. Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, or Shaq gets eight free throws. Holy shit. And we're down by one down by one. He's just got to make two of them. Man, I'm It's funny that this is such a tough question. Hold on, man. Listen, because I played with Kobe and I see what I would get a ball to MJ. I'll get a ball to MJ because he had made, I mean, with me being there for seven years and I've seen the shots that he

made. But that is a very good question, guys. That was a very good question. What about Robert Ori? What if I put his name in there? Oh, big shot. Bob. I would have to say, because of many big shots and that he made, I would have the ball in Michael or a Kobe hand penetrating and then kicking the big shot. Rob. Yeah, or have some weird like bank off the backboard off the side of the reman. Just a ball finds its way to him and nobody is within five feet of him. Hey, that's the look of Robert Ori, man. Yep. I was seven championships. So I have, I have another headline grab for you. The bulls versus your, your three Pete bulls versus the Warriors with Kevin Durant, seven game series. Everyone's at their, everyone's at their peak. So everyone's

at their physical peak. I would say, I would say the bulls in six. I love it. Nice. I've never gone to a seven game in the finals. No, right. Being with the bulls, we don't believe in seven games in the finals. What about against the heat with Dwayne Wade and LeBron? Would you guard LeBron? Scotty would probably guard LeBron. Yeah, I'll probably be on Chris Bosch. Yep. Yeah, probably on Bosch. But I still would say, I still would say the bulls, maybe five or six. Oh, five. Yeah. Listen, man, when, when, when you got a Michael Jordan and the Scotty Pippen in their prime and the Horace Grant, there you go. I mean, I would, I would, I would mentality was it wasn't that how many games it was going to take, but we were going to kick your ass seriously. I

mean, this is not being overconfident, but man, and plus, we could adjust to rules. I don't know if this generation could adjust to the rules back in the 80s and 90s and how physical it was. Yeah. If they have the refs from the 90s, I think you guys sweep them, maybe gentlemen sweep. Yes. But if they have, I don't know if it's like Adam Silver getting on the phone and telling people, okay, we need to make this a series. We got, we got to bring some money in. Wait, were you on that latest team that that David Stern gave that series away from the Kings to you guys? No, no, I was, no, I was in Orlando on that. Okay. All right. That was bullshit. All right. Just want that on the record. I have two last questions for you, Horace. It's been great. The

first is when you left and went to the magic and then you beat the bulls with the year that MJ comes back from baseball, you know, only plays 18 games or whatever. And then you got carried off on the court. Do you think that was kind of an awkward move? Like you made fun of the pistons for ducking the handshakes. You got carried off on shoulders in the second round. I told, I told Shaq, no, don't do it, brother. No, I don't want, he was like, man, get, no, and I quote Shaq, you better get your ass up here. Seriously. And I mean, no, I mean, that wasn't me. I mean, I don't do things like that. I mean, you can ask anybody who know, I don't do that. But then you have Phil Jackson talking to me. And I love Phil to this, this very day.

And I quote Phil, I am going to make you beat us. I'm going to keep you. I'm going to leave you open. I'm going to make you beat us. So, and you were awesome. That was that series. Yeah, you did it. So you deserve to get carried off. No, carried off. I would have loved to walk off and talk shit to the sky later. All right. So my last question, and this is a hilarious thing to look back on, but I just need confirmation that is 100% true. You once tried to skip practice because Scotty Pippin's cat died and you were mourning the cat. Hey, true story. But the thing behind that is that I was still drunk from the night before. You were really emotional about that cat. You really were in your field about that cat.

Listen, when you have quite a few drinks and you still hung over, you still get emotional about certain things. It was a special cat. It was a great cat. And the great part about that is they have nine times they can die and you can just not practice. It's the book that I mentioned the book for everyone listening on Monday show, Blood on the Horns, but it was like Scotty called in and was like, Hey, my cat died. I'm not going to be in practice today. And 15 minutes later, you called in, you're like, Hey, Scotty's cat died. I'm not going to be in practice today. Hey, we came in together in 1987. So that was my, they spilled my man. That's friendship. That's deep friendship to be like, I'll come and sit and be bros with you

when your cat dies. Absolutely. I mean, the little cat, I mean, we had a bond. We had a great bond, man. What was the cat's name? I don't dare. I knew you wouldn't have that. Oh, man. I got one more thing for you. You're wearing your Bulls Polo shirt right now. I got to wonder. You look at that logo from your perspective right now. Have you ever noticed that if the Bulls logo is upside down, it's a robot having sex with a crab? Look at it. A thick crab too. Look it upside down. He's dummy thick. Yeah. Yeah. That's weird. That's weird. Yeah. It's also the one. Yeah, it's the only logo in the NBA that's never changed. I think they want to keep it that way.

Well, okay. Just something to think about. Now you're never going to look at the same again. Hey, that's nothing wrong with a little same sex. Well, Horace, thank you so much. We appreciate it, man. Four-time NBA champion, some unreal teams that you played on. This has been a ton of fun. Thanks, man. All right, guys. See you. All right. That interview with Horace Grant was brought to you by Shady Rays. As you guys know, we've been talking about our friends at Shady Rays all year long. Thousands of you have taken us up on their amazing deal and you guys are now rocking Shady Rays just like we are. I've got my

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Redeem only at ShadyRays.com. You can find these styles among their other awesome shades. Check them out today. ShadyRays.com. Use promo code PMT50. 50% off at checkout. Okay, let's get some segments. We have first up a Stay Woke for Kim Jong-un. Kim Jong-un, he's back. This also could have qualified as a who's back of the week because I guess there were many reports that he had died that he was in hiding. He had a botched heart surgery, that sort of thing. But bottom line was he disappeared for three weeks and people speculated he died. Now he's back. And they said that he spent his time with 20 women. He has like his own harem that travels with him to service, dear leader. But there is a great conspiracy theory on Reddit

that said that his absence just so happened to coincide with the release of the new Final Fantasy game. So people are thinking, hey, maybe Kim Jong-un just went to his like mountainside gaming lair filled with hookers and Mountain Dew and snacks and shit and just chill it out for three weeks and beat Final Fantasy and then came back. So that would actually be a great way to spend three weeks though. Yes, absolutely. So do we think he's actually back or is this an old picture of him? It could be one of those Dave situations where you replace your president with just some random actor on the street. Right. I would imagine that he probably has at least a half dozen clones of his like actual clones that have been kept in like some weird farm just in case that he does die.

It's weird because I was reading about it and I guess he missed his grandfather's birthday and that's like a big holiday in North Korea. So that was why he initially everyone was like, where the fuck is he? Now I think I was looking at the pictures. I don't buy it. I don't buy that's him. I think it's just he looks kind of chunkier too. So either he's been playing Final Fantasy and eating Cheetos and Doritos every single day, which could be true or it's just a fake Kim Jong on. Yeah, it could be a fake. I that is a big time game remove those just skipping your grandfather's birthday because you don't care about it. Yeah, well in the storyline. It's yeah. I mean, you're supposed to I guess it's obviously his deceased grandfather because I don't think you can in

North Korea if you're in that like lineage if you're still alive, you're the boss. So Oh, that's true. Yeah. So but he yeah, it's a big national holiday. I don't know. Either way, Kim Jong-un, I'm not buying it. I think he's dead. I'm saying on on firmly on the side of he's dead. Okay, I want to I'm firmly on the side of he's alive just in case he is alive. I don't want him thinking that I was hating on him. I don't want to be hating on him. I don't want to be trapped to a wall and blown up with an artillery show. Why is it hating on him to say I'm I'm I am consistently in favor of sucking up to any sort of dictator just in case they turn on me one day. All right, I'm saying similar to my who's back. Fuck Kim Jong-un. Boom.

Okay, maybe just watching out her banks. Yeah, what else came out around April 10th? Ozarks season three. He's been binging on that. Yeah. He's a bit he's a big Marty fan. He thinks he's looking for a Marty to open up a casino in Missouri for sure. All right, let's do our Mount Fleshmore before we get Billy on to do Shark Tank berserker protein. What is he doing? He's pitching you guys his product. Okay, all right. God knows what that's gonna look like. All right, Mount Fleshmore. So we're doing the Mount Fleshmore of sports. Is that right that we that we would sports activities that you would not want to try. So it's the Mount Fleshmore of

it's the Mount Rushmore of sporting activities. You wouldn't want to try Mount Fleshmore of sporting activities. Okay, pretty much more sports kind of one and one and the same. But yeah, to act for example, stepping into the ring with Mike Tyson. Yes, yes, to actually play. Okay, so Hank, you have the first pick. Why don't you start water polo. Damn, that's great. I had it, had it, had it. Like, why don't why? Let's play keep away while we try to drown each other. No, thanks. treading water the whole time. You got to be dealing with the worst cramps in the world. The worst. I mean, that's that was honestly my number one as well, Hank, because it is just I can't imagine just having people just grab you try to hold you underwater,

try to steal the ball like that sucks so much. It's basically taking what should be a fun like let's just throw the ball around in the pool and then making it insanely difficult. Well, the whole game was started by basically handball. Yeah, the game was just started by people like that's the maximum and then just went too hard with it. Yeah. And they're like, yeah, let's okay, let's all get together and do this on Sunday. Also, never trust a game that Stanford or Cal are good at. Like that's just a rule. That's just a rule in life. If they're good at something, that means that it's not a real game. And it doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever how you can get dehydrated when you're playing in water. Yeah, well, yeah, I would just drink it.

I just drink the chlorine. Yeah, exactly. Just drink it. Get a belly full of that shit. All right, PFT, your first pick. My first pick is going to be being a matador. Okay, bullfighting. Although that's kind of rigged on the matador side. Those guys have so much. They fucked that bull up so much before. They got swag. Well, they get they get the weapons. So you're allowed to stab the bull. And yeah, some of the bulls are a little bit like doped up or whatever. But still, I know that I would just get absolutely gored. And then I've seen those. Once a year, you get a you get a series of pictures that comes out of a matador that that really didn't take his job very seriously that day. And the horn always ends up his butthole. And that's that to me seems like

it would be a bad day at the office. Okay, I will go with triathlon. Fuck the triathlon or whatever it is. Is that the same as Iron Man? Yeah, Iron Man is the type of triathlon. Right. So by you taking triathlon, you took murder hornet. But no, I'm fine. I can keep you. We can keep Iron Man on there. I just didn't know the difference. So having to do anything in the triathlon on its own would suck. Having to do it all consecutively. Like, isn't it the swim and mile? Something like that. Yeah, that's a long way to swim. That's so long. And then you have to get out of there and just bike forever and then run a marathon. Fuck the triathlon. That is such a try hard move to do a triathlon. And then my number two is MMA. I mean, getting knocked out,

but even more than that, like getting tapped out, just only bad outcomes if you, if we ever had to be in the MMA ring, like that would just be so emasculating. It would be kind of funny, though, to step into the ring and just have a competition to see who could lose the fastest in the least amount of pain possible. Like, because there would be a strategy to doing that. Yeah. Yeah, just like I'm just immediately start hitting the ground like Donkey Kong. Like, yeah, I'm already out before the game starts tapped. Okay. My second is going to be I'm going to go with the lose. Losing would be tough because that on my list. Just do you crash going 75 miles an hour on the very first turn. Also, no, but you don't have to do anything. Yeah, but no teammates to socks.

Do you have to go with your body weight? You think that you could get on a lose and survive a single turn? Now, yeah, the question is, PFT, do you think you've ever been sledding? I have a good point. Same thing. The skeleton is maybe worse, though. True, because you're going ahead first, but that sucks. I almost feel like it'd be easier to steer the skeleton because it is. We've all done that thing on the sled where you go ahead first and you can steer it. It's easier to steer it that way on a sled than it is if you're laying on your back and you've got to open all that shit. If you fuck up, though, feel the rhythm, feel the run. That's Bob's slide, which is fun. You got teaming. Yeah, you got bros to hang out with in children.

Is it a loser's one man Bob sled? Yeah, but that's the point is like it sucks to play it by yourself. And you're also not in the car. There's not even an ox cord you can plug in. You're just like laying on your back and just going over a cliff. Yeah. All right. Hank, you have two. Tour de France. So cycling. Yep. Cycling. The Tour de France. Yeah, but that one, that one, I think cycling, like I think the thing with cycling and marathoners is like, there's a lot of people and when you like, I don't think it's like a harder move to run a marathon or like do a bike race, like raise money for charity. Like that's all good stuff. But if you're doing it as your professional sport, yeah, right. That's what I'm saying. That's

what I'm saying. I think like I think like people that run marathons get offended or people that like Peloton or like whatever cycle for exercise is one thing. But like, if your profession is just doing the Tour de France or like that's the only that's that's the only biking one that I can even think of. Like if you're a professional biker, what else even is there? So apparently in Europe, biking is one of the major sports over there. They're just they just shut down city roads like three times a week and just have bicycle races go by. That's crazy. Yeah. Can you imagine that type of society? No, I'm glad we told King George to go fuck himself because I would not want to I would not want to have if my street gets shut

down for a parade like once a year, I get upset. Imagine not being able to go to work because you've got 50 Italians wearing tight shorts and driving by on their bikes would suck your third Hank. My I mean, we talked about it earlier. And for all the reasons that we talked about earlier, the strongman Olympics, because if you get to the peak of your profession, you're bleeding out of your brain and your heart breaks the monitors. Yes. So I got no interest in that. Yeah, big time weightlifting, so much pain, just constantly pain. Right. Like best case scenario, you break a record and then you basically die. Did you? Did you look at the Instagram comments on on the ESPN video clip of the deadlift? It was great. They're critiquing them because not good form. Even this

dude at the top of his game was like, Oh, no, that's an elephant bar and wearing wrist straps. And this is this is a strong man, not an actual competition. But they had like they had a world record holder or former world record holder there like watching his form observing the entire thing. So it's a legit world record. But because it didn't take place in like the one competition they have per year, like, no, this doesn't count. I love it. I love it. That's just the theme of every Twitch chat. Every Twitch chat has every expert that's ever played that sport in it. All right, PFT, your third next one. My third pick is going to be being a catcher for an inning or for a whole game. Just being a catcher in Major League Baseball would absolutely suck.

Oh, I would like it. No, you would get just torn up by like curveballs, splitters, you take at least three sinkers to the nuts over the course of an inning, I would imagine. And you'd still be a baseball player. Yeah, but like you would be a baseball player. Yeah, you could say that you were a baseball player. I'm saying as far as the event goes, it would it would be rough. It would be tough afterwards. You'd be sore as shit. You get hit in the face a few times. It'd be tough. Yeah, but at least the thing with baseball that I was like playing the position would I would get with my ADHD. I'd get bored pitching and catching you at least have control of what's going on in the game. Like you can buy yourself without

anyone else. Like you can kind of control like what's going to happen. All the other business is just standing and waiting to have like 99 miles an hour coming at you. And that's the rush. Yeah, that's why you play the game. And I think I feel still still feel like especially like baseball because baseball is so hard to get to. You could if you say you had a cup of coffee in the majors, that's like a real thing. That's kind of a cool thing like flecks to have on people. Even people who had like two at bats like, yeah, but I made the majors. That's like, wow, that's pretty impressive. And like you're calling the shots and the pitchers throwing it exactly where you want. Like you're you're the puppeteer behind the entire the entire

game. Also, you have Joe West breathing on you. There's like jowls bumping off your shoulder. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Although your knees the the one thing is your knees do just you're fucked. Yeah, for life. All right, I have two left. I will go with rock climbing. Fuck that. I mean the free solo guys. That's insane. I die instantly. And having a strength. Yeah. I mean, the abs I'd have sick abs that have that fucking V V the dick V going. Yeah. You have some nice pictures on Instagram too. Just like day at the office or sitting on top of a rock holding your arms out. Yeah. And then gymnastics, gymnastics like what's you basically get shine what once every four years. And if you ever watched gymnastics, I would break every bone in my body after the first thing.

I don't think there's one thing I could do in gymnastics that wouldn't just be catastrophic injury instantly. Probably the trampoline. No, dude, you have to do like crazy thing. You would definitely tear your ACL or Achilles like think about all the flip you have to do all kinds of shit on the trampoline. It's crazy trampoline. What about what about the balance athletic slam ball balance bar? I would fall off of instantly pommel horse. I'd fuck my nuts up. The floor exercises would be torn Achilles knee ankle everything on the bar rings would be disaster rings you would just let go of and fall down though. That wouldn't be too bad. Oh, rings you. Try as hard as you can. Yeah, tear everything in your body.

Fuck gymnastics. That thing is gymnastics. Gymnasts are impressive, but I don't understand it at all. My last one is going to be rodeo cowboy rodeo or It's like your first one. Yeah, Matador bullfighting. I'm just terrified of cows in general. Yeah. You heard the expression grab the bull by the horn PFT. That's not what you do in a rodeo. You don't grab the bull by the horn. You grab it by the saddle or by the hump on its back by the ridge you hold on for eight seconds. Very best case scenario. Because Jeff Lockwood intimidated you. Lockwood are the bull goats. Best case scenario in a rodeo you hold on for eight seconds and then

you win but then immediately after you win you have to escape something that's trying to kill you. So do you really even win? Getting paid millions of dollars for eight seconds of work. Not bad. It's pretty good. That's pretty good. Did you also compete with like a broken spleen and rupture appendix and all that? Yeah, he's a football guy. Cowboys. Isn't that your whole thing? Yeah, but I mean I want to be a football guy. I don't want to be a football guy stuck in a rodeo guy's body. Still badass. That's what they are though. Yeah, the full backs are basically rodeo guys. Would you want to know? Would you want to compete in a rodeo? I don't think so. I wouldn't want to but if I was going to pay a lot of money it's definitely one of the sports that we're

like that we're talking about all these sports. It's probably one of the only ones that I could actually like do, right? Get on a bull and actually do it. Like I could never run a triathlon or play water polo. I'd drown. You could handle the getting on the bull part. Yeah. Right. But that's, I mean I could compete in it. Like I would, I'd get tossed right away but I could technically compete in it. You could compete in a triathlon too. You just stop. Dude, even walking a triathlon, I mean I'd drown on a triathlon. I would drown. 100% would drown. And I'm a great swimmer. People don't talk about how far a mile is in the water. It's insane, insane length. Hank, your last pick. Soccer. Simple. Just because, why? Any sport that you can't use your hands is just like

you have 50% of your body and the stuff that like are much more important and you can't even use it. You basically just running around. At most you're scoring like one goal a game. I just don't, there's no, I see no value in it. I like how Hank's entire explanation behind soccer is just that it would be boring. That's not wrong. It is, dude. Soccer is boring as fuck. It's not wrong. It's also, you get paid a shitload of money but is it worth it? I mean at what price does your board amount? Not Americans. Yeah, true. Hank just by being born in America has a ceiling, a glass ceiling to his worth as a soccer player. Literally. Literally. Like there's like what, five Americans maybe that are like getting paid really well to play soccer? Oh man, you're going to get, you're going to get people

very upset with that one. I like it. All our European listeners. I enjoy, I would love to have soccer be back right now. If we had soccer, come on. You'd watch soccer right now, Hank, wouldn't you? Well, yeah, but I would, I would watch pretty much any of the sports we just said where I wouldn't have watched them before. Although probably not Tour de France or running Earth and I guess Strongman was on. I didn't even know about it and I still wouldn't watch it again. Belarus and Nicaragua both have soccer still going on. I know because I've lost money. Yeah, the ESPN Ocho over the weekend where they had the cherry spitting competition. I watched that. I watched like this robot fight thing. I watched juggling and dodgeball mixed together in some

weird sport. I'd watch basically anything except for cycling. Cycling is it's a more boring version of NASCAR. Yeah, unless you could bet on a cyclist. Yeah, you are a cyclist. I am a cyclist. It's also I've read recently that cycling is the most dangerous sport in the world. It's probably just cycling. Cycling bike crashes. You get beat up so much because you're a nerd is probably why. No, it's people just opening their fucking doors. They're car doors. Yeah, true. That's pretty much it. There are some there are some hilarious bike crashes out there on the internet. Yeah, bike crashes are awesome. Bicyclists fights are pretty hilarious too. Yes, they are. But bike crashes like the big one in bike crashes. Oh man, that's pretty fun. All right, let's get to Billy,

our deep dive with Billy football. Before we do that PFT, you got a quick word from one of our sponsors. Yes, before we get to Billy, I want to talk to you guys about CBD MD. The sports world does that stand still. It seems like the whole country is under quarantine. But the biggest question on many people's minds is still, what the hell am I supposed to do without sports? Don't freak out though, because our friends at CBD MD have the answer hibernation. And thanks to their award winning sleep formula getting a full month of sleep has never been easier. CBD PM blends 500 milligrams of high quality CBD with melatonin, valerian root, chamomile, and other sleep promoting ingredients to create a powerful and effective sleep aid. CBD PM soft gels contain the same award

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Sorry. You're right. He's looking good. Now Billy, before you start this pitch, can we ask a quick question about you actually did go to the emergency room the other day? Yeah. So my stomach started hurting. Like it's had these stabbing pains and turns out like, I thought I was like having appendicitis, but then I went there. They gave me like an ultrasound and they're like, you have swollen lymph nodes in your stomach, which can be caused by viral infection. And I was like, what's that? Like do I coronavirus? They're like, no. Have you been in contact? Like I'm swear to God, they're like, you may have contracted is called like, is this some they gave me some virus name. And I was like, where would I get that? And they're like, have you been in contact with cats? And turns out

I've cat scratch fever. Oh, that's real thing. Nugent like the new yeah. So what is cat scratch fever? What does it do to you? Make you just sick at guitar? It makes you sick. I don't know. I got a swollen lymph node. It feels like appendicitis. It really hurts, but we're playing through it. I did love Billy. Billy then said he's happy. He was pumped that it wasn't appendicitis, because if they had to take his appendix out, that means he wouldn't have survived in the wild. So at least you're still alive. So yeah, I mean, like I'm still like, I can still survive in the wild by myself without like medical. For those of you that can't see Billy right now, he's rocking a sweet mustache. He's got a suit and tie on you actually you look a little bit like young cat.

Like I don't think I've ever seen any pictures of big cat when he was 22 years old, however old you are Billy 21. But I'd imagine that it looked you look like a big cat. Fuck Kirk Cousins. I mean, I just wanted to grow a mustache in quarantine because it's the only time I can really do and get away with it. So I'm not seeing any of you guys. Sorry grandma for cussing. Sorry about that Billy. I forgot. You're looking good. You're looking good. All right. So should we start the pitch? Okay. So I'm willing to provide any amount of equity share of a supplement company, the berserker blood called supplement company for about 10 to $30,000, depending on the quote.

10 to 30,000. That's a pretty big gap there. So I'll give you I'll take because I just like basically these products are sick. You just want to get cash rich. Wait, wait, wait, big cat sidebar. So before Billy even explains what the hell the supplement product company is, if we say we'll give you $10,000, and we tell him at a valuation of $10 million in your company, doesn't that make the company worth $10 million immediately? Yeah, if well, we have to. So $10,000 though, on a $10 million valuation would only get us like 0.001% of his company. Yeah, but still like that's how you get started. You get like all these articles and shit written about you by saying, Oh, this startup is now worth $10 million. Yeah,

click to find out more. Because I mean, I could get under like the 20 and the 20 times. I'd like to enter in 20. I'd be 30, whatever. I'd like to enter into an offer sheet negotiation with you. So we're speaking on preliminary terms right now for series a funding on your supplement company. Now what what is your supplement company sell? I got two products, like two products, but one product has three levels. First product. So there's four products. Yeah, but one are all different types of pre workouts for the movie. Okay. Okay. All right. So first product crisis fuel, it's for maintaining mass when you're trying to be energized. Let's say a couple of situations. First off, pandemic spoken, we know what's happened during

pandemic, you need to drink crisis fuel. Second, it's finals week, you're needing to maintain mass and stay energized. So look, everyone around you who's students, not student athletes, they're all guzzling at her all and becoming little skeleton, like sweating, having heart attacks. Definitely not student athletes though, just the students. That's the students. You're a student athlete, you need to maintain mass, but be energized to study because there's a sophomore who doesn't care about his academics, who's going to take your spot and your girlfriend's parents are asking you what are you going to do with life after football. So you need to study, but also maintain your spot on the football team. A lot of things going around. So maintain mass

energy. So this is what we're going to do. I developed a proprietary blend, which isn't going to be like a bullshit proprietary blend. All these supplements, I don't even want to flavor them because I want you to be able to taste the ingredients. When you put it in your mouth, like this is strong shit. I'm going to get to another type of supplement that I gave to PFT the other day. It's like a whole thing. I've actually been testing them on myself recently, like caffeine and caffeine. If you mix them, it's like a super energized type thing. So I'm going to do like casein protein or some sort of animal-based protein, mix it with B12 vitamins, torene, caffeine. If I could, I'd get the stuff from Jack 3D. They got banned, but we can't do

that anymore. So that would be sick because like, let's say, what else? Let's say you can't eat, you're like, you know, you're gaming, you need energy, but you need to maintain mass. So you've been gaming all day. You don't have time for food. Like you're on a road trip. You don't want to stop. You're a trucker overnight delivery. You can't stop because your deliveries do the next day at 6am. It's 3am. You can't stop for food. That sort of stuff. But I'm thinking with the crisis fuel, we sell it in 10 gallon buckets. So for example, let's say there's a wildfire. It's approaching your house. It's California. You need to grab as much food as you can. Screw the food. Grab your 10 gallon bucket of crisis fuel, which is all powder and a bunch of water. Throw in your car. Drive away.

You have enough meals for 40 days. Okay. I like where your head's at, Billy. The no flavor thing. Are you married to that? No, we can flavor the crisis fuel. That's more for the pre-workout, because I want the pre-workout to hit and you'll be like, this isn't just flavored Kool-Aid with caffeine in it. This is real stuff. Billy, would you be open to doing a diet crisis fuel? Because while I appreciate where your head is at with gaining mass, I think a lot of people are going for the skinny bod these days. Well, the whole point of crisis fuel is that it's like 2000 calories a punch. So it's protein, carbs, add a shit ton of cornstarch to it. So you just get a ton of carbs every time you drink it, but a lot of energy. Okay. So it's a meal replacement. Yeah. Placement,

but energy. With Big Cat's getting to here, it's actually a valid point. If you make it slightly less than 2000 calories, you could just say it's your entire day's replacement. So all you have to do is you just drink one crisis fuel and it's a diet supplement. So it's not even like diet crisis fuel. It's for dieting. It's the only meal that you eat in a day. Oh, you could do that. But then you just eat less crisis fuel. Okay. So there can be two branches of crisis fuel. One for people who are on a lose way. Yeah. Yeah. We're just going to throw this. You throw in some water, mix it up and pound it down. You chug it. You're done for the day. Boom. And it sits in your stomach, but not in like,

it's a light sitting your stomach. So you're full for the rest of the day, but you don't need to eat and you don't feel slow. How does that happen? How does it sit in your stomach, but also not sit in your stomach? Slow burning proteins and carbohydrates. Does it give you mantis? No, it's going to be extremely androgenic. It's not going to be estrogenic. No soy. No soy. Does it take away your mantis? Well, where there's going to be a separate line of things called tea boosters that we're going to market not for human consumption. So we can put the good stuff in it. Oh, that's smart. So people can buy it. They're just explicitly told not to consume it,

but wink, wink, wink. They can do whatever they want. Once they have it, use their use it on their test subjects. Right. Okay. Got it. So it's like selling bleach. Right. Yeah. If we can't consume it's on your it's on you if you consume it. But if you consume it, you'll probably get super jacked and awesome. Yeah. And you can't say on it like use it on your test subjects because that implies that you have like a slave that you keep to experiment on. You see, we got to give it like, yeah, we have to give it like an alternate purpose, like sell it as it's fertilizer. It could be fertilizer or it could be like kitchen sink. Yeah. Yeah. So now here's to the second line. This is Berserker mode pre workouts. Now,

PFT, remember that stuff you took the other day I told you, Berserker. Berserker. Exactly. Boom. There's 10% steak right there Hank. Thanks. So PFT, remember that stuff you took the other day and I said take it until your skin crawls? The beta alanine. Yeah. Yeah. So I've got a new mixture of blends low in caffeine because I don't really like caffeine in my pre workouts because it makes you feel dehydrated. This one is just going to make your skin crawl. There's going to be three levels like super skin crawl. Cause that's just the animal spirit coming up from your body to make it go berserker.

And then the first levels for people who aren't like that into Berserker, but like they don't want that much skin crawling. They just still want the energy and the super pump. So what it is is the blood flushes to the surface of your skin as a sort of antihistamine response. So it like all the blood goes to surf your skin because it's going out of your body to like get into your muscles. So then basically you have to lift in order to get the itch away. Why don't we just get people addicted to heroin and then have them work out. They're like going through withdrawals or skins crawling. Boom. Well, it's hard to work out if you're on heroin. It's true. Well, the cardio is probably pretty good. They're also all the junkies are skinny. Well, how this all

ties in together is that we need to make our veins giant for the nurses when we don't have blood in the berserker blood cult. So this gives you a super pump. Your vascularity gets like huge. Your nitrous oxide levels goes up and you get sick boners. Sick boners. Oh, you should have said you should have led with sick boners by the way. Yeah. Can we sell them behind the counter at gas stations? Yes. Okay, that's that's good start. Now I admit the heroin thing was probably getting a little ahead of my skis, but it made me think if you want to market some like real hardcore pre workout shit and tell people like this is not for pussies. This is real deal. Why don't we make some sort of pre workout stuff that you can just inject like that comes with a needle,

like really kick it up a little bit. I don't know about that one. Because then you might as well just do steroids. Yeah, I guess I did invent steroids there. I'm just like I'm like don't want big supplements because they basically sell Kool-Aid with caffeine in it. I want to make something with no taste because then it's cheaper. You actually know what you're getting. This is going to be no BS. I don't even want any money from this. I just want dudes to get the real stuff so they don't do something stupid. Nice. Yeah, so we're not for profit. That will help with taxes for profit. We're a 501c. There we go. All right. What's the other thing? And this is how we're going to market it. So we're going to market it in huge packages and you sell them to people. So

I'm the Alpha Zercher with a capital A and then we'll sell it. And once you get the package, you're going to be small a Alpha Zercher and then you have to give it to all your friends. And then if they want to become an Alpha Zercher and get an Alpha Zercher hoodie, which is going to be a sick hoodie with a bear on it. So it looks like a bear skin. And then they're the Alpha Zercher and then you have your own Berserker clan. And then if they want to become an Alpha Zerker, they have to buy their own package and get another Berserker gang to then sell their other parts of the supplements too. And then we just build a Berserker blood cult and they all have to make sure they're donating blood and then selling all the supplements in these 10 gallon

tubs. But the pre-workout is going to sell me the small ones. Okay, so basically a pyramid scheme is what we're talking about here. No, the cult. No, that's fine. Oh, it's a cult. Okay. Yeah, yeah, same. Yeah. It's a cult to donate blood for the blood shortage. I like it. I'm in. So what do you need? I think I need like at most $30,000. What about do you think people will just send us some that you can do some mixes with? I'd like to sample before I invest. Yeah. If you sell, if you produce supplements and are willing to make an unflavored supplement, hit me up. Yeah. And then we'll just let Billy test it out. And I am down to start taking random supplements from you all summer long. I am. Absolutely. I'm actually been

getting into biohacking. So let's just make this the summer of biohacking. Oh, I also wanted to create a supplement for chilling out so people stop taking Xanax as weed, beer, marijuana. And then there should be another second off. Marijuana would be that supplement. No, but marijuana makes you lazy. It lost us Vietnam. Billy, what do you think about doing something with protein? It seems like you're dancing around the idea of protein right now. Protein. You see, you got to get you got to consume your protein in anabolic state. So it turns into good mass, not bad mass. We need perfect anabolic state. Being drunk is not the best time for the anabolic state. What else? Don't let great be the enemy

of good here, Billy. True. Yeah. Yeah. Billy, this I think we have preliminary talks. We're in. We're in on preliminary talks. I'd like to see, like PFT said, I'd like to see maybe a test. We can get a sample and then go from there. Well, I'll test out all the samples on myself. I'll be sick. I'm going to get jacked. The berserker blood cult exercise and diet program is going to start this week. Can be sick. Make videos. Okay. Body weight stuff. It's going to be sick. And then I also got an app idea. I can't tell you what it is because I don't get sucker cucked, but basically there's a lot of things that people want. And there's a lot of

people who can give them those things and we're going to connect those people and everyone's going to have a really sick night every time they use the app. Backpage.com. Billy invented back page. All right. We're in. Boom. All right. So I'll tell you about the app offline. Perfect. We'll see you next Monday, Billy. Thank you. All right. Have a good one. Love you guys. Pringles ramen. French fries. Chicken. Nuggets. Ice cream. Sandwich. What am I creating? What am I creating? I am snacking. I am snacking. I am snacking. Nuggets. I am snacking. What am I creating? What am I creating? I am snacking.

What am I creating? What am I creating? I am snacking. Pringles. Pringles. Wrong. Wrong. French fries. French fries. French fries. Chicken. Nuggets. Ice cream. Ice cream. Ice cream. Sandwich. What am I creating? I am snacking. I am snacking. Nuggets. I am snacking. What am I creating? What am I creating? I am snacking. What am I creating? What am I creating? I am snacking. you