Pardon My Take - Lavar Ball, Tiger King Recap, Fyre Fest, Journalist Robert Moor On Tiger King

Episode Date: March 27, 2020

Quarantine day whatever it is. We need a pat on the back. The sports world is in full random debate mode and we're joining in with lists that make no sense because what does (3:23 - 22:17). Fyre fest of the week (22:17 - 30:42). Lavar Ball joins the show to answer the question of whether or not he's a small baller now, could he coach in the NBA and more. Mt Flushmore of worst calls to get (30:42 - 53:14). Tiger King recap breaking down the wild documentary that is captivating country. We also have journalist Robert Moor on the show to talk about Tiger King as he interviewed the entire cast of characters for his new podcastYou can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/PardonMyTake

Hey, pardon my take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen, ad-free, on Amazon Music. On today's part in my take, we have Lavar Ball. It's a weird interview. It's exactly what you'd expect from Lavar Ball. I don't think we asked him one serious question. I don't think he'd want one serious question, but it was good to have him hear his laugh.

Here's Cackle. Here's Bravado. He's been gone for too long. Yeah, he's been out of the National Lexicon, and I'm glad that maybe we can do a small part of bringing it back. In the relaunching big baller brand, not small baller brand, we got into that. We also have our Tiger King review, so we review the documentary that has everyone talking this week.

The weirdest, not the weirdest documentary, but maybe the one documentary I've watched where I hate every single person that's in it. I don't think I've had one of those before. What? What? You don't? Maybe the side characters. I'm talking about all the main characters.

They just kept on like, hey, here's another person you should hate. Here's another person you should hate. I like Jeff Lowe's wife. She seemed like just a good sport. Poor lady. When he was like, yeah, you got to get back in the gym right after you pop out this kid. Fuck Jeff Lowe. Fuck him.

Well, if I'm going to get a nanny, she might as well be good looking, right? You're hot. Yeah. All right, so we're going to get into all that. We also have a special guest on to talk about that, a reporter who has been covering this story, who's met all these people and we talked to him about what exactly is going on here. Get some answers to some questions.

I'm sure people have. We have some sports debates. We have a Mount Flushmore and we have a Firefest of the Week. Before we do that, part of my take is brought to you by the Cash App, not only is it the easiest place to send money to your friends. It's the safest. Guys, don't be going outside. Don't be exchanging money.

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I need whoever's in charge, whether it be Chromo, whether it be President Trump, whether it be Dr. Fauci. I need someone to tell me I'm doing a good job. You're doing a great job. I need a pat on the back. I'm at pat on the back level of quarantine where this feels like it's doing nothing. And all they have to say, a little treat and be like, hey, big cat, you saved 10 lives today.

You know what they should actually do is just they should mail us medals for staying inside because we are saving lives. Every generation. Yeah, exactly. This is our D-Day. They should just ship us. They should create a new type of life-saving medal from the US government and send us like a new one every week so we can pin them to our shirts and walk around and feel good about

ourselves. Don't you agree, though? We're at the participation life-saving certificate. Right. We're at the point of the quarantine where I think we all know that we're doing the right thing and hopefully it's helping, but I need someone to get in front of a camera instead of doom and gloom and desk, desk, desk and coronavirus be like, hey, you, yeah, you sitting on your couch eating the six bowl of cereal you've had this morning.

You're doing a great job. Keep doing exactly what you're doing, which is nothing. Yeah, it's like, you know, at the bottom of cereal boxes, you get a prize once you eat all of it. There should be like a little token at the bottom of all of our beers that we're drinking and bottles of wine where you get to the bottom. That's the medal. It's like by drinking this and staying inside, you have saved one life.

Yes. I need a little pat on the back. I need a little pat on the head. I think that what we are seeing though is our communities coming together and rallying around each other and supporting each other. Small businesses are even contributing. For example, I got this text from a local small business last night and it really made me feel good.

Okay. Just about people in general. It said, I hope everyone and their families are safe through this global pandemic. I would like to thank you all and keep you updated. On our end, we're taking the right precautions to make sure we keep everyone safe and our SUVs clean and disinfected by providing hand sanitizer and disinfecting the SUVs after every ride. We are still renting the SUVs as long as the roads are open going from 1pm until 11pm because

there are curfew restrictions in certain areas and we want to keep the roads clear. And that was from my weed guy. Hell yeah. There it is. Shout out. Not a drug guy. Not a drug guy. Shout out to the local small businesses that are doing their part.

I would imagine that that is one of the industries that is recession proof right now. Yes. At least everyone sitting at home. I actually have been funeral directors. Funeral. Well, that's a little okay. Yeah. You did that.

Wednesday you were down. Let's restart. Wednesday you were down. Monday I was down. Okay. Today we got to be up together. It's Friday. Let's restart.

Here we go. It's Friday. Hey there all you big cats and kittens. Welcome to part of my trade. Get to the Tiger King. I've actually been fascinated with like what industries are doing well and will be doing well. And one that I've noticed that is probably booming right now is sign language people.

Yes. On TV. Yes. There are some people who are like they just got called up to the majors. They've been waiting for a really long time. Maybe they've been off to the side of like an auditorium. Uh huh. You know what I mean?

Where they can't really be seen. Now they're front and center. I don't know. We were going to talk about the Mississippi governor saying that he doesn't want to be China so he's not doing a lockdown. I don't know if you saw the Mississippi sign language guy but he looks like someone who could be in Dog the Bounty Hunters crew. Do you do accents when it comes to sign language to really convey the sound of the person's

voice? That's a good question. If it's from Mississippi are you holding a mountain dew in one hand and like a new port in the other? It's a good question. It's a good question. But these look at this guy. That's a sign language guy from Mississippi.

Oh yeah. He's wearing all black in a mullet. That guy is a walking accent. That's perfect. So yeah these guys. He's got like a bag of money that says to Cam Newton's father on it. Yes. And they're it's a sign language shout out to the sign language people out there who

are getting up there every day. I would like them to dress up maybe like a little like a tuxedo or something like a white tux so they can be like whoa that guy's classy. I agree that there should be something to denote that that is a sign language person because I always for the first like half second two seconds I'm looking at it. I'm wondering if that maybe that person is just Italian and they're very demonstrative. They should wear the orange mittens like the NFL people do when they stand on the field during commercial breaks.

DeBlasio's got I guess you couldn't see the fingers. Yeah. Okay. I'll workshop that. DeBlasio's got a ponytail guy with a soul patch and it's like this guy's a badass. That's awesome. Yeah. It's like the guy from Tiger King.

It's just show up and be like hey here's here's your here's your message with my hands. I really feel like soul patches are making a comeback too. They've I've been seeing more and more of them. They're biased. They're most they're mostly from weirdos and documentaries and magicians and lead singers of Smash Mouth but overall I feel like we've been exposed to more soul patches than usual in 2020. Yeah.

Keep an eye on. Yeah. We're probably at our soul patch capacity right now. It's probably hit early. That's probably our quota real early. That's not a that's a curve that you want to flatten. Yes. You don't need a spike in soul patches.

But yeah so we're we're basically every day is the same. Every day is Groundhog's Day. I've just been playing a shitload of video games. I think everyone else is you've been watching Game of Thrones right. I have not started. I've been thinking about starting Game of Thrones so I'm getting prepared for that. I've been I've been writing a lot of songs. One thing I want to do is actually every day write a song.

Oh wow. Maybe just text me in the morning. I'll pick one person who replies to the part of my take tweet that I tweet out every morning. Give me a topic to write a song about and I'll write a 30 second song by the end of that. I mean I have a challenge. I don't know if you'll be able to pull this off by the end of the show but I was just going through the DMs and at Aaron Solomon 24 asked can we get a PM PMT or PFT song

to listen to to get stuck in our heads for 20 seconds while we vigorously wash our hands. Oh so that's your challenge tomorrow. Write a 20 second song challenge. Okay. Maybe go live from the PMT Twitter account and debut it tomorrow at like noon. Okay. Got it. I'll do it.

Yeah after your race. Well no noon doesn't work for me. I'm going to be passed out for at least two hours after that race. Yeah you have to race. I'm racing against some golf bros tomorrow. This is where we I mean someone tweeted at me they're like so is your day just consist of a fake. I think it'll be them.

Yeah you will. They're like oh for sure. Does your day consist of just fake toy racing horse racing and video games is like correct. Correct. I've just gone back in time. I have a Nintendo in my bedroom and an Xbox in my living room and that's I'm basically just switching. Yeah.

I'm just walking from my bedroom. Switching back and forth. Going to my living room. And then switching back and forth. I'm getting into cooking again. Oh wow. Yeah. Cleaning up sucks though.

Cleaning up is the word. You were into cooking. I cooked more when I worked from home like four or five years ago. Got it. But I almost lit the apartment on fire last night. Not good. Fun fact ground pepper is very flammable and so it looks like you're welding if you just put it into a hot pan.

That is fun fact. That's a really fun fact. We also have the sports world is trying to figure out what the fuck to talk about. So we're going to do the thing where we just wait for them to talk about something and then we just make fun of it and we look smart. Here's how bad real quick we'll get into that in just one second. It's gotten so bad in my house that now Leroy is sick of me. Yeah.

All he ever wanted. Dogs were big benefit. They benefited so hard from the lockdown for like the first week we're like oh my person's around all the time. This is awesome. Now it's like Leroy's dude give it a break. You're smothering me. Well I'm like a simp for Leroy now.

I'm like going to get you anything Leroy. I've had the moment where it's like we've just gone back in time. I was texting with K or I was g chatting with KFC this morning. I was sitting there writing a blog with with Stella sitting right next to me and I was like everything that we've done the last five six seven years we're just back to square one. Yeah. We're back to square one.

We're just doing this all again. I'm writing blogs and putting fake polls like we're just back to square one. So here we are. I clicked on your poll. Yeah. Did you got me. It was good. I well I wanted to what I wanted to do legit.

So what I really want to do is back in the day with our website always being at the cutting edge of technology. There used to be a poll system that was one to five stars. And so you could only do it could only be a binary thing like you couldn't do three options. Yeah. So I would always do three options and I'd be like choose one for this choose three for this choose five for this and it would always end up at three and people will get mad at

me. So I couldn't do that. So I went to the old old school and just pasted a picture of a poll. But yeah. Here we are. So the sports world. So like I said we're just going to make fun of everyone else because that's we're just basically going back to basics.

Two things caught my eyes today. The first was Sports Center tweeting out their starting five Kevin's all team Kevin's for NBA said no one could beat the best five Kevin's of all time. It was Kevin Johnson, Kevin McHale, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Love and Kevin Durant I believe that was it. So we're going to do our five top five Kevin's that we will tweet out but let's do it Mount Flushmore style. So we just picked the worst Kevin's worst Kevin's of all time.

Good Kevin bad Kevin Kevin Spacey number one starter on our team that's bringing up the ball. That's a really good start. He's calling the plays. He's shooting the ball. He's not passing the ball unless he lets you have a few drinks first. He is number one Kevin on our bad Kevin's that's that is honestly tough to follow up. He is I think he's like the runaway worst Kevin of all time.

Well here's another one I had with coat Kevin Kevin Federline. No disagree. Kevin Federline hacked the American dream. Everything about Kevin Federline is something that you should strive to do. You get married to a superstar in her field. You get a shitload of money. You wear jeans suits all the time. You have three do rags and a hat on at all times and usually no shirt and then you just

live off the teat of being like a guest appearance on a reality show twice a year for the next 15 years. Name Kevin Kevin Nash the wrestler. Ah yeah I mean we could put him on there. I think we have to put Kevin Federline on there just because we don't have enough Kevin's. I don't know Kevin O'Leary Mr. Wonderful people didn't like that interview put him on there and yeah yeah who's and yeah well yeah yeah and yeah and who's the other one Kevin O'Leary Mr. Wonderful because and yeah Kevin Nash was a wrestler I mean he's a big body yeah

got a vested Kevin James is a big body. Not a bad guy though. I feel like Kevin James is a guy who is awesome to hang out with and I just hate his movies. Yeah although he was also the American dream in King of Queens because his wife was very very hot and he was 300 pound slob. Well that's how TV works. Just like any commercial it's always just like some guy who's like a three or four and a smoke show wife.

Yeah so who else we got. Oh we could put Kevin McHale the TV actor on there. Okay so let's just put that guy on there and that's our list of Kevin Kevin love in the playoffs. Oh that'd be good doesn't really show Kevin love when John B lines his coach. He did lock down Steph Curry though he did that one time. Any other Kevin's we should think of I don't know I just looked on I just typed in famous Kevin Kevin Hart but it's a picture of.

Oh yeah we put Kevin Hart on there. We can't put Kevin. I would say Kevin Hart is the worst Kevin tweeter of all time. Yes I'd agree with that. Alright so our final list of Kevin's our top five Kevin's Kevin Spacey Kevin O'Leary Kevin Federline Kevin McHale the TV actor last spot Kevin Hart Kevin Jonas he's the ones that broke up the Jonas brothers. There's another Jonas.

Kevin is the worst. Oh he is. I didn't I thought it was just Nick and Joe. No they're the good ones. Oh yeah then put him in there he's Fredo. We can't say that. Yes. Sorry Andrew Cuomo.

Well you can't. No Chris Cuomo. Well both. I think. They're both Italian. Yeah I know but Andrew. I feel like Andrew doesn't mind the Fredo because he knows that his brother is the Fredo. Like when that.

Well they're both Fredo's. But no when that when that video came out right he was like yeah absolutely Chris is a Fredo. Right. Good job. This is one of his weight what was it what was it. Kevin Jonas. Kevin Jonas I'm just looking at I can't believe there's another Jonas.

I'm looking at Kevin. One of the funniest if you there's a there's a documentary about the Jonas brothers and when they broke up which there will be. No there's it's out there. Oh thank you credit me. So funny. They were all hated each other and Nick and Joe told Kevin they're like hey don't come to the concert like we're not even gonna perform our songs together.

Like it was like their last contracted like performance they did before they broke up. And so Kevin didn't go and then Nick and Joe just played all their songs and it's just like Kevin being like I had to watch them like play all our songs together blah blah blah blah. It was it's very mean but it was hilarious. Yeah. So we'll put that out there. Maybe we should put an asterisk next to Kevin Spacey and then be like clearly the worst

Kevin captain. Captain worse Kevin because the other Kevin's don't really deserve to be in with him. He's yeah he's he's at a Pantheon all on maybe that would just be our top five is just Kevin Spacey number one. And that's it. I like it. It was top five quarterbacks of all time that everyone's it is truly debate season where people can just throw out anything and it becomes like hey I'll spend the next three

hours sitting on Twitter debating this. So I think Steven Smith started this one when he did top five quarterbacks. He had Joe Montana John Elway Peyton Brady and Aaron Rodgers. Okay. That that seems right to me. No Bortles on there. That's a little. Yeah.

I think Marino probably should make it but that's just me. I don't mind. Once you get into breaking down where these guys fall on that list there is there's a specific type of person that puts Aaron Rodgers above those other they the person who puts Aaron Rodgers just wants to debate for the rest of the night. Well it's also a cheat code because you can say he is the best quarterback that I've he makes all this is gifted that yeah if you're designing a quarterback you would design Aaron Rodgers and you're like well Drew Brees has been really good for a long amount of time.

You're like no but Aaron Aaron Rodgers can make those Drew Brees can't right and that's your trump card for all of them. Yeah. Put the back on there. So our best our best quarterbacks our worst fun quarterbacks is our list. Okay. I'm going to just get it started with a good friend by the name of Ryan Mallett Ryan Mallett's good one.

He was fun. He's kind of a dick. Yeah. He was he was fun that he got cut for multiple teams because he didn't know how to set a clock. Yeah. That's kind of cool. Nathan Peterman should be on there.

Matt Schaub. Yeah. Yeah. Matt the the pick six streak he had is yeah he was all time fun. Mike Lennon. Just because the neck is it really makes him pop if I was going to go a bear's quarter I think Rex is probably it because he was I mean he was fun but Rex was he was back. Rex was occasionally very good.

He was but he was also bad but in he was fun. He was just fucking chucked. He was like a watered down Winston. Yeah. Do you do you consider is it sacrilegious to say Ryan Fitzpatrick's bad. No. So he's you could say that but he's fun. I don't think that he's bad bad.

He's not good. He has but he's streaky bad. Jake DeLome. Yeah. Jake DeLome at the especially at the tail end of his career when he was thrown interceptions left handed. Just say Jake DeLome parentheses non-steroid Panthers. Yeah.

Because that team like when they went to Super Bowl just everyone took steroids at the same time. It was awesome. David Carr. And Derek. And Derek. The car family. The car brother.

The car DNA. Mm hmm. Brock Osweiler. Yes. Just from height perspective. Very fun. John Kittner. Yep.

That's another one. John Kittner. Kaboodle. Tarvarez Jackson. Oh yeah. Tarvarez was he was going to take that next step. He was. We're doing a list of you guys just naming.

We're just naming. We're naming. He was the Ryan Tannehill before Ryan Tannehill. Well and also the the story where he pulled the gun at his wife which isn't funny. I don't know. But she said shoot you'll miss. Yeah. That is very funny.

It's very funny. By the way this is totally. That is objectively hilarious. I got down this rabbit hole earlier today because I am the OC at Florida State now. Do you remember the story of Ricky Aguayo? Roberto Aguayo's younger brother who like tore a turtle in half. He ripped a turtle in half. Do you know what the turtle's name is?

Was? Incredible. Lonesome George. Turntle. Fuck. That makes it even worse. Turntle. It was a fucking turtle hit a frat house named Turntle.

They turned it up. How do you even rip a turtle in half? I don't know. With a shell. Again this is where we're at in life. I read the police report today and it was it bummed me out so hard. Do you get. Turntle.

Is it like a wishbone where if you tear it in half and you get the head then you get a wish that you get to? Turntle. Alright so someone. I wish my brother could make an extra point. Put those top five quarterbacks on there but put all of them. Top five. Put the eleven that we named.

Including Ricky Acquire. JP Losman. We need to just. Can you believe that somebody actually wasted a high draft pick on a guy whose last name was. Arm strength. Was Lostman. Yeah.

Arm strength. He had it. Yeah we should just start putting out graphics of lists every day just to get the people going. Here's what we should do. It's just our list season. Okay here's what we should do. We have 32 teams in the NFL.

We should say who the best quarterback of all time for that team was in franchise history but have it be somebody who's hilariously good slash bad. So best Ravens quarterback of all time. Kyle Baller. I like that. I like that. Trent Tulfer. He won a Super Bowl.

Jets quarterback. Chad Pennington. Yeah. Jay Fiedler. For the Dolphins. Yeah we could get people big mad about that. Every Bears quarterback. Saints.

Aaron Brooks. Yeah. Dude he was nasty. Well yeah so we'll pick somebody who is like very clearly not the best. I will do that on Monday. And we'll make little graphics for him. Yeah. I want I want us to yeah the part of my take Twitter account we need to be creating lists

at an all time quantity. We're just basically going full troll right now. Just churning out lists. List and list and list. Get the people discussing things. All right before we get to LeVar Ball we got to do our firefest and are we going to do our Mount Flushmore after LeVar Ball or before? What is our Mount Flushmore this week?

We're doing a Mount Flushmore of the worst numbers. Worst phone calls that you can get when you see it pop up on your color ID. Numbers that you do not want to answer. Worst phone calls. Okay yeah yeah. All right so let's do our firefest first and we'll do LeVar Ball. Then after LeVar Ball we'll do Mount Flushmore and a lot of Tiger King. Firefest.

Tank. My firefest is that I've just been crushing sweets probably had a box of Oreos a day and I think I have a cavity and I don't think I can deal with that for like. No you can't. Not a great time to go to the dentist. You can't. You can't. Eat your way through it.

Because cavities definitely as someone who's had a cavity that went into a root canal if you can get your tooth into that middle zone between cavity and root canal you can buy yourself a couple months with no pain. Like the because you get normalized to the cavity pain and then you're good and then when the root canal pain happens it's emergency room. I mean that's why the good Lord gave you two sides of your mouth you can chew on so just you start avoiding that one. Listen I've done it.

I actually once went in I had to get cavities on both sides filled and I got one filled and I was like this sucks I'll come back later left got a root canal because I didn't come back for six months. If you chew on one side of your mouth too just one of your jaw muscles gets huge it looks like you have mumps. It looks like Sydney Crosby. Maybe have you thought about washing your Oreos. I've been doing milk and Oreos.

Okay like an old dog you just have to big time throw back deep cut for anyone who's been listening to PMT for four years. Movies only for Hank. All right that's a good firefest. We have coloring books on sale by the way. Oh yeah coloring books buy them. I was going to actually think about giving it to friends who have children and then the first page is acetants.

Yeah it's just me with my pants down. It's an R rated coloring book. Getting ready to go to town. Or if you want ready to motorboat the butt cheeks. Buy the coloring book and then just rip out the three or four or five or six pages that are maybe not age appropriate. What else isn't age appropriate. Chillidulfia beagles that's a cool one kids could you go uh there's somewhere we're just

like not wearing clothes. Yeah there's one where me and Big Cat are spit roasting a football. Yeah we're fucking a football boner dogs probably. No boner dogs okay you just take out the boner part just color over the boner part. There's one where there's a casket with a football you got to explain death to your kid. So yeah you can you can you can work your way around it. Um alright PFC what's your firefest.

My firefest of the week I have two is that okay. Yeah alright so my first one is that we did not include in our in our Mount Flushmore of Worst waters. The guy that was going to suck dick for water in firefest. Yeah. Although maybe that water was that water was probably really good if he was going to suck dick for it. Yes.

I disavow that firefest. My other firefest is something that we actually have to come together and disavow as a podcast. It's going to be tough but we have found ourselves on the wrong side of history with the airport chilies in Orlando so um the Orlando airport chilies the one at the top of the escalator it's a great place to have a meal. The woman who told Hank and I was it was after the Stanley Cup. Yeah. And he said he said how are you doing she said just live in the dream.

It was a great place to have a meal until last week when they brought all their workers in to clean out the entire restaurant to like disinfect it wipe everything down and then fire them all in the spot after they disaffect it. So I I personally am disavowing the airport chilies in Orlando Florida I'm sorry I feel I feel pain actually saying those words. I'm not ready there. I'm I'm I'm going to I am right now. I am full steam ahead behind the anti and I'm with you PFT like in theory but now I'm

thinking about if we're in Orlando yeah I'm going I listen if someone can show me proof I'm not working there and being fired I will happily send you a hundred dollars and then I will not disavow I'm not setting foot in there I might do like a PETA protest where I stand outside and I throw fake blood on everyone that walks out yeah some things are bigger than just being like a scumbag organization and fire your employees yeah I'm taking I'm taking a moral stand it's literally bigger you go up you go up to it yeah all right my firefest is I got my weighted vest it's way too heavy 80 pounds is a shit yeah I was wondering if you were going to realize that well it's 50 with and then I bought the insert really

very heavy 50 pounds is an extreme weighted I'm I'm doing it though I would actually say that wearing a weighted vest that weighs 50 pounds is bad for your exercise habits because you just never want to stand up and no I'm gonna get stronger so much I would just pee myself instead of having to get up and go to the bathroom I'm also big time back on my again like this is we're all going back in time but I used to just buy just needless shit on Amazon like all the time that's how I got a hand claw back in the day weird shit I'm back on that I bought a trumpet this week nice I bought a can I make a suggestion John based out DVD or John based out of you remember the legend that he died of AIDS no and he also died in the Thailand

whatever it was just not me yeah not me there was yeah he's died about Danny Boy Kane of fitness he's a cat he's got nine lives yeah he actually looks like he's part cat so I'm gonna get in good shape because that I bought this head this this helmet massager you put it on it massage your brain get stronger or get smarter yeah both both both I bought a high altitude oxygen mask to start training my lungs in case I get the Rona that's pretty good too so yeah a lot of needless shit yeah no that sounds pretty strong I just think that the weighted vest you could probably get more bang for your buck if you got some of those jump shoes I might just wear my jump your Achilles that's fine if you got if there's ever any time to tear your Achilles it's right

now I'm so afraid of tearing my Achilles well it's not gonna tear mine just gonna make my calves swell as fuck that's like the one I feel like anyone who still tries to play pick up basketball into their like mid to late 30s it tears our Achilles probably so I'm scared of that okay let's get to our interview with LeVar ball speaking of basketball so we can have great shoes that won't tear your Achilles LeVar ball before we do that a quick word from our friends at McCain's potatoes great for midday snacks listen it's you're at home right now you got nothing to do you want to get these McCain potatoes they got everything easy to cook up for your family since we're somewhat confined cooking at home right now Emil you don't have

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ten dollars off your Philips Norelco one blade using promo code PMT at checkout Philips Norelco check it out like I said Philips.com slash one blade get ten dollars off your Philips Norelco one blade using promo code PMT at checkout do it right now Philips Norelco thank you for being a great sponsor make sure you're looking good in quarantine you got to trim up you got to get good both face and body Philips.com slash one blade ten dollars off your Philips Norelco one blade using promo code PMT at checkout okay here he is Lavar Ball okay we now welcome on a very special guest it is Lavar Ball owner founder creator a big baller brand he also is the father of Lonzo Leangelo Lamello you know them Lavar thank you for joining us no problem man my first

question for you I saw the relaunch of big baller brand I noticed that the price of the shoes went from 495 to 189 are you now a small baller I'm always gonna be a big baller man been there done that like I said I did my thing when the shoes first came out it was symbolic so you can't put a price on that put my own price on now I did what I wanted to do the boys can do whatever they want with your shoe now oh okay well it's so you so you're but you're still like had a big baller brand right of course okay okay the price change makes me think maybe you guys are small ballers now oh no that's one of my sons they want the price to be lower for folks that's good but like I said but I'm first coming out I'm coming out with my price and that's how I did who is the

biggest baller in your family hmm stopping man you know it's me still but always well Lonzo is probably the richest and also the best basketball player riches hey if I tell him to give me all the money he got to give it to me I'm the father how it works that's pretty cool the ball clan yes okay it sounds like you're claiming that you're still the biggest baller in your own family but you're letting your sons tell you how much to charge for your shoes I'm not claiming that I was saying I'm always gonna be the big ball okay I got it here's my next question Lovar I was doing some research and I read on Google on under the people also ask questions someone asked what is big baller brand worth and it says the net worth of big baller brand is estimated to be over one

billion dollars so who do you know at Google how did you get them to change that answer to make it one billion dollars what's it worth well everybody knows it's worth a billion no chance why do you think they're coming at me so hard no chance it's worth a billion dollars come on this takeoff it's a wrap why not why it's not worth a billion dollars come on man tell me why you tell me why it's not worth a billion I finally received big baller brand shoes number one because I know it took like 12 months to get them hey man it's just like a fine wine you can't rush that I like that I like that well how many pairs of big balls did you sell like I told Colin herd 495 495 okay I'm just doing the math on that because I'm trying to get to 495 times 500 yeah you're right that equals a billion

right we all man let's go on yeah call did you say Colin heard that was a great I like that you just made his name a little bit shorter there we don't say the cow part yeah Colin Colin heard heard what you heard LeVar is getting coronavirus a big baller move or a small baller move getting the coronavirus man I said I don't think getting sick is a big baller move yeah I agree you know some of you get it some of you don't man just my resistant levels very high I ain't gonna get coronavirus man yeah last time I was in kindergarten oh last time you're in kindergarten yeah yeah 50 some years ago okay so you've been on you've been on all the ESPN morning shows all the Fox sports morning show who's the biggest baller that you've run to is it Stephen A Smith

Bayliss in short man it's you guys man they small ballers man that's why I go over there and be big baller style on y'all the big ballers show I we actually a bunch of people in our office bought the big baller shoes the first time they came out I actually remember because one of the guys yeah one of the guys got a size 13 left shoe and a size 11 right shoe when does he have a dexterous dough you guys just said different pair I kind of like it if he had the dexterous we had to get him one small foot and one big foot because you never know these days I'm gonna I'm gonna give you some credit LeVar because what you've done is is marketing genius because essentially any complaint or anyone who's like hey I didn't get my shoes or the shoes are different sizes or this is bad or

this is you can just respond to be like sounds like you're not a big baller no I wouldn't respond like that man I'm gonna take care of that okay whatever they need to get it right we get it done I actually like the new shoes I looked on the site I they look good they do look good they got stout they got flavor you know hey like I said in this business man especially with shoes you get better and better at you know you get some more inputs from different folks and then the shoe turns out to be better and better usually the first and second shoe it's all right never to shoot Kobe had on when he was with Adidas that thing looked like a shoe

in the world you can't I know I can make a shoot now because of what happened well yeah I'm just saying that well we can break that's that's a different that's a different lane let's be that one along yeah mom of mentality is like almost the originator of being a big baller it was being a big baller before you knew I'm the original big baller on the fact that I've always been big my last name ball why you think they start calling them big ball did you did your father that's your father do that on purpose I hadn't thought about that name you with our ball with well his last name is ball we got the last name of all you know we've been around for a while got it I didn't change my name for this now when uh when you first met LeBron James

how did you let him know that there's a new alpha in town to let him know that like this is okay I never met LeBron James he never kissed your ring is it okay I don't do that I even I was a boss I ain't letting nobody kiss my hand especially no boy I don't do that that's that's something y'all created man kissing rings and all that I ain't kissing no ring when I didn't nobody kiss my ring yeah did you ever have a conversation with him did did you ever have a conversation with LeBron or did uh any of his people reach out no no never what at what point do you think you will publicly try to get Alvin Gentry fired at what point do I think I would get Alvin Gentry fired mm-hmm that ain't up to me to get him fired

that's that's on himself to get fired right but like the job if you're not doing the job that's when they fire you got it don't try to blame it on me a lot of folks try to blame when they get fired or something by me they'd be like all of our got me fired y'all man that's on you partner you established that a long time ago right fair point do you think that that Zion Williamson is a big baller do I think he's a big baller yeah you're a big baller you know Zion's a big baller who's the alpha on that team on the one stop it on New Orleans it's only one big baller on that team and I'm the guy with the last main ball and that's the one who's running the team the majority of the time okay okay let's go back in time let's say a prime Lavar ball

prime Lavar ball verse Zion Williamson one I'll murder that boy he's too small he's too small he's too slow I was way too fast for that boy in Youngston man I would my prime time I would kill him I was just too strong and too fast okay how about this what if you grew up playing golf do you think that you could beat Tiger with if I grew up playing golf yeah no man golf ain't my game man okay I get tired I get tired of trying to chase that little white ball okay what about so you think that if Zion Williamson went back in time and played in the pack 12 was playing against Washington State he would struggle against you um and and what you're putting out there well definitely if I had a different coach you'd be struggling against me but with Calvin Samson

oh man he would kill us wait are you trying to get your former coach fired former coach fired he should have been fired after you don't let the big ball play for the season that's when they had the worst season I'm on the ball average 2.2 points I only played 2.2 seconds if I don't play longer they would have been winners but that's the fact that he want to show how tough he is and not play a stallion you got to let a stallion lose and that's why the record was so terrible that's true yeah I don't like that I don't like that at the work season I read you grew up wanting to be a law enforcement officer you wanted to be a cop oh that's something when you're younger see uh my pops is in the law enforcement and that's what they kind of want to bridge into because

they want you to have security you know that's that's usually how a parent does usually especially coming from the hood they say man if you can do something good you know you got a good pension you got this and that's what they're kind of trying to lead you into the workforce but being the big baller that I am and I got to be say no you know what I got to go do my own thing so I'm like basically one of the only family members that's that's basically in my family that they'd say you know what I'm gonna go on my own lane I ain't gonna be in this workforce then I do things my way and I'm where I'm at now it is a testament you've done something right to have a son in the NBA to have another son that's going to be possibly the number one pick in you

know the draft coming up um I have I have a nine-month-old son I actually wanted to ask a real question how do I get him to be awesome at basketball how do you get him well here here it is let me give it to you like this his parents advice from LeVar ball let's go okay listen to me now let's just keep it real he's gonna be okay at basketball if you want to don't come out the blues saying you know you're gonna be a good basketball player he's gonna be a better comedian or anything dealing with the media on the fact that you like to talk and you're a funny guy so those are genes that you're gonna give him man he's gonna have to give the gap so either he's gonna sell something or he's gonna be real funny on that radio show something like that okay that's the real deal so so don't go down

that lane when you're trying to get him to be six eight handle the ball and do all this basketball stuff because I'll tell you what being being a son when he gets younger probably when you want to hang out with him it's better for him to go to your job to hang out and talk so he's gonna say anytime I get to hang with my pops I'm gonna be talking so he's gonna see how you deal with people and meet all these people and say you know what I want to do the same thing because I have a lot of fun with my pops doing that okay I like that it actually sounds like you have a lot in common big cat with LeVar you guys are both kind of big dudes like to talk very good at promoting yourself so maybe naturally your son is just gonna be a big ball already just because you're a big ball

come on now right right here's the thing and it ain't about the money and all that the big baller is a state of mind mm-hmm mm-hmm yourself and you positive man you're a big baller if you're not like say for instance if you want something how can I work and it's hard to get and you end up getting it you're a big baller now if you want something and you don't want to work for it and do nothing ain't no big baller that's why I say a lot of big ballers out here you're a big baller whatever you do and you feel good about it that's on you that's what makes you a big baller sometimes in my deepest darkest fears I picture myself as a medium to slightly above average size baller are there any tips that you can give me on how to oh man you already have a start like you said

you're above average there you go when you're above average do this because you go from there he's not but he's close well it's like I said this is my set it can be close to him and far from others no I'm definitely above average like like I said even even even nice you can get a guy that's six nine three hundred fifty pounds I don't make him a big baller you just be LeVar where is Lamello gonna get picked what what number is Lamello uh three where's number three no that's LeAngelo LeAngelo wears number three other than number where's number one oh he wears one so you think he's gonna pick number one come on why wouldn't he be picked number one Anthony Edwards who are they oh well they're pretty good players too hey they can be great players but you take

them overseas and ask them to be anybody you know I'm here walk right past that's true okay listen to this now listen to me I'm gonna preach to you usually in in the draft when you want the number one pick you want to take a guy who's most popular that's one of the things you want to have like Zion was most popular last year and then the second thing is you want to probably take the best guard because that's how the game is changing Mello is both of those so if you're gonna start your franchise and you want to put people in the seats you gotta get Mello okay is there a place that you wouldn't want him to go yeah the only place I wouldn't want him to go is where a coach is going to try to restrict him and put him in the box anywhere else a coach that believes in him let

him run loose and let him do what he does and win oh that's where I want him to go wherever that's it I just need the coach to believe in him and let him lose because here's the thing it doesn't matter where you go you just have to have a coach that believes in your talent and has confidence in your game okay so what about the Sacramento Kings Sacramento Kings the Sacramento Kings if they have another coach you might be able to do that that was a chat that was a big baller chess move I just played on you that was chess move but I'll tell you what and then say I don't want to throw that away because you never know Luke might say man I done messed up one time but I won't do it again yeah it's true but my my past experience his mindset is not good enough so he gotta change

that coach over there so that'd be hard to do that yeah what about a team like the New York have coach right now fresh start would you coach if the New York Knicks asked you if James Dolan called you up and said hey LeVar we need a coach would you do it man I'd coach that team but I have all three of my boys over there if I have all three of them I go to the championship one year that's all they take me one time and then after that I set it down I'm gone you'd like buy a ticket to the NBA finals what would you what are you saying you'd go to a ticket shoot man I put my style in the NBA we often running and gunning it's a diss a wrap my boy's playing a whole different level when I'm at the head what's the plan for Leangelo because I feel like he gets he gets lost

in the shuffle and you know that's not fair for him because he's talented as well man that's boy super talented man he's got that that pro side body here's a thing he's six seven two four of you at the two guard spot that boy is a monster he just needs this opportunity and like I said he took the wrong path so now you got to take a different direction if we go the same way it's just like I tell him though which is one of the things sometimes you got to take one for the team and if he wouldn't have never did what he did I don't think we'd be talking right now because I would have just been like you know what all my boys is lottery picks get picked let's get our money let's go I wouldn't be like oh I'm gonna create my own league I'm gonna go get my own water

I'm gonna snatch my boys out of school I'm gonna take them overseas we wouldn't even be in this route so I give him props for that but like I said he just got to take a different amount and he did something different otherwise he would have did his thing at UCLA I'd have left mellow over there at Chino Hills he would have went to UCLA but all this stuff has changed and it is what it is but like I said Jello's gonna get to the league there's no no fault in that with people we keep thinking well he's probably not that talented nah he just went a different route he cut from the same cloth so it's not like we're gonna they're gonna grow up in the same household and be like nah I'm not gonna work out that hard I'm not gonna be that good

that's the key piece you let him get with one of his brothers it's a wrap he's a ball he's a ball exactly so you know mm-hmm I know I want to flash back real quick to uh one of my favorite interviews you've ever done it was with Chromo Chris Chromo you remember that one yeah my man Chromo yeah Chromo uh you were talking to him about budding heads with Donald Trump where I think Donald Trump called you ungrateful etc etc etc I think he called you an ungrateful fool and a poor man's version of Don King which I mean that's Don King is not a rich man so that's a must be very poor to say right now but I wanted to know if you had ever made up with the president or if you had ever reached out to anybody oh no I'm not going to reach out with him to Trump

and let nobody like that I ain't got time for that I'm running a big ball of bread I ain't got time for no Rudy poops for some what what'd you just call him I ain't got time for no Rudy poops man Rudy poops I'm gonna sit aside and keep on rolling can you still dunk can I still dunk no man I had my last dunk at 50 oh not very big baller of you and it's yeah my last dunk was at 50 at 51 I tried it again with a small ball and no no work oh that's that man so so what's telling me is like hey LeVar you didn't lose the bottom part of your body for the first 50 years and let's use the top part yeah okay there you go I like that you're you're brand in your heart there you go do you think when teams are are thinking about the draft and they're looking at

Lamello and you get people saying well there's baggage because LeVar comes with them do you think that's fair do you think you're baggage right no I couldn't be baggage but here's the thing if if you don't pick my son on how you feel about me he ain't supposed to be there anyway okay I'm not on the court you know people like to make that narrative to be like oh he put pressure on me no no no my sons wouldn't be where they at without me and like I said if you look at the constant which is people like to say you know oh Lonzo's not under the bright lights no more he's away from his dad and he's doing much better no he has a coach that believes in him because he's always gonna be under the bright lights you're a professional if you're scared of playing in front

of the bright lights you can't play anyway so the only thing that's changed in this where Lonzo's doing so good now like everybody's always when LeVar thought he was the first time the only thing that's changed is the coach because he's feeling under the bright lights and I'm still his father none ain't gonna change the only thing change is the coach now when he was in LA playing with LeBron do you think that the two of them got along them dudes always gonna get along they got the same game it's like the IQ is high to get rid of the ball they plan oh he must have messed that up was Luke Luke didn't play him a lot together the one time he did both of them at what's the time uh him and Lonzo both got a triple double

they should have left him in the game for longer periods of time if you want to play him play him together the first three quarters don't take him out then after the fourth quarter you can take him out for the whole court because neither one of them sit on the ball for a long time so the IQ was running would have been great and like I said that was Lonzo's favorite player who the if you got a chance to play with your favorite person whatever you do man you would do good like like say you like in the broadcast and then you got to do with the best let's say you get Howard Cosell that's probably going a little further back but you've got to deal with him you'd be like super with that guy it's I mean it's like right now you know being on a broadcast

with you is like you know we're basically you're LeBron and we're each half of Lonzo and we're running it right now and I mean it's it's magic man you already know this man say we mean you ain't saying wait man that's why that's why this conversation on this interview is so long man that was a way to say that you were done with us that was nice I like that come on you guys it's good all right all right last question we're with LeVar ball the new baller brand is out um use uh it's the Seeky question promo code take use Seeky promo code take you get ten dollars off do you think it's a little ironic that the big baller brand BBB is also stand for the better business bureau and you guys had some run-ins with them do you think that was kind

of funny at least from an outsider's perspective uh from an outsider's perspective I don't think it's funny oh I think it's crazy for them you know to try to get with the triple B's the real triple B's the big baller brand got it well some people say like that we gave out a nickname of triple B had nothing to do with the big baller brand but we called certain people a baby back bitch did that affect the value there's a lot of a lot of things you can come up with with triple B's I mean it stands for a lot of things oh pick which one is great for you LeVar we should sell baby back bitch shoes at the big baller brand no no no no no stop that big baller brand and baby back bitch don't don't mix wait which hold on hold on I'm confused I gotta put my hand up is it

when we say triple B is it baby back bitch is that what we're referring to oh triple B's always stands for big baller brand but there's like a I think there I think the market's getting confused right now because I'm saying big baby back bitch I tell you this if you go out to anybody in the world and you say triple B's and the first thing they're gonna think of is big baller brand guaranteed Hank are you there can you unmute yourself Hank what what do you think of when you think of baby back or triple B Kevin Durant baby back bitch oh you think of Kevin Durant well you need to get out more if you think about triple B's the first thing you think about is Kevin Durant why well you just said earlier in this interview that getting coronavirus is not a

big baller brand move so what else could it be if it's triple B right hey looks like you've talked yourself in the car baby back but yeah that actually you're right you know what that rolls off the tongue baby back bitch see you guys would never get done doing that all right well LeVar this has been awesome we appreciate you having fun with us you're served and good luck with with big baller brand and uh we would love to collaborate maybe on a shoe at some point all right man we might have to do something you never know you never know if you never know maybe just send us yeah i mean we might do something different you never know

man listen hey man i appreciate y'all man i'm glad y'all having fun doing what you do y'all big ballers in this talk game so you're all good man all right thank you man all right thank you thanks for kissing the leaves oh i like that would you say you all stay up money i like that yes you like it yes all right man i'm out of here play y'all be good all right take care of your chickens take care of your mentals this is awesome so i just got a call from my dad and uh he left a message and the message was just like hey just calling because uh saw it should be opening day today and uh wanted to apologize again for the April Fool's Day trick that i played on you that's awesome hope you're doing well uh hope we get some baseball

this year that's awesome shout out dad new sponsor alert new sponsor alert this is actually a sponsor i'm very very excited to hear from i'm sure you guys will be too uh it's out back steakhouse that's right out back no rules just right out back is available through door dash that means you get juicy it actually says juicy takes in this ad copy i think they mean stakes but you can also get into a nice argument about sports for your delivery driver if you want to they have juicy steaks a big fried blooming onion and other favorites that bread that brown bread that they have that out back the best bread in the world so you can eat it in the comfort of your own home it's going to get delivered right to you through door dash that's right great steakhouse flavor

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to this podcast on right now so you have everything that you need to go on door dash and order out back now or later or whenever you're feeling hungry hungry one thing i've tried to do during this lock up session is i try to match my meals that i have for dinner with alliteration with the day of the week that is for example i started doing this thing i call taco tuesday on tuesday so it's called taco tuesday night because it's tuesday and eat tacos why not have steak saturday or steak sunday either way get some from out back no need to socially distance from juicy delicious steak order out back on door dash right now you're hungry your roommates are hungry but good news great steaks wings and blooming onions are only a few taps or clicks away with

door dash that's right out back steakhouse on door dash just open out back on door dash tap the food you want hit order boom steak delivered whoa like that out back now rules just right blooming good taco right okay uh let's do our mount flush more than we're gonna get deep into tiger king so our mouth for flush more is worse calls to get mm okay so i start friday's me worse calls to get or worse people to get calls from we'll do either way wait are you are you thinking like oh uh your dog ran away i was thinking like yeah your boss yeah it's calling oh yeah that works yeah not like a specific conversation right right but yeah not like your john bonestones agent and the cops called you exactly right but my first pick will be the cops getting a call from the cops sucks that would

be just don't pick up yeah it's it's a bad bad call to get i would imagine if you had to rank the law enforcement it'd probably be the worst worst one would be fbi yeah uh yeah i would say atf probably atf regular cops would suck to the ice yeah ice would be bad yeah so yeah cops in general law enforcement in general that's not a good call to get no because either you're getting arrested or someone robbed you or something bad happened or someone died not a good call so just send me an email cops yeah it's way way more convenient text is it me now yeah okay and then it's Hank and then we come back yes okay my first one is going to be a principal principal in high school our middle school when that phone rings and you see that on your call already at your house you either have to

intercept it real quick and say your parents aren't home and then your parents hear you say that they're not home and like who is that you're like no one wrong number there's really no good way around that because when the principal's calling you're in deep shit agreed your boss your boss it's usually they'll send an email or whatever if it's like if they're calling you there's something something going on even if it's like nothing serious it's still just never a good feeling to be like oh my phone's going off who is it oh shit it's my boss is it worse to get the call from your boss or to get the text from your boss saying call me real quick that is the worst actually the worst text you can get from your boss is uh hey can you come in real quick to the office just when you talk to

you for a couple minutes bring your playbook i've had that call before yeah yeah oh and i have to uh marlin's man good that's a good one very relatable yeah i mean that's uh yeah there's a reason why you hold marlin's the contact to all marlin's man's can i actually let's go through some of you go i'll pull up this text message i'll get on the way back it's funny that you the text he's been sending me air it's funny that you mentioned your he sent me the he sent me he sent me flights he goes round trip new york to fort lauderdale thirty five dollars like no shit marlin's man yo he wants to fuck he wants he's booty calling you Hank yeah yeah pretty much come play with the pussy well he's also no but he's he just tweets me link he sends me links well he's keeping you abreast yeah that's

actually really nice he's looking out for great deals for you yeah rex Chapman videos like oh look at this oh well he stole yo yeah dogs bra blocker charge watch this person get electrocuted it's a it's a mom like pushing her daughter out of the way of a train yeah this guy in china blocker charge this guy in china fell off of a 40 foot ladder blocker charge dogs bra we don't deserve him uh my next one is going to be uh a number that's very similar to yours because my brain still hasn't caught up to the fact that the scammers have figured out that they can mirror your phone number yes and have it be one that's like two or three digits off yeah and you get it you're like oh maybe i know this person since it's so similar to mine forgetting

the fact like you don't have any friends that have a number that is exactly you know similar to yours yes but it always tricks me i'm like oh it's someone i know and i pick up and then it's like the warranty on your car is expired we are uh the fake auto registration company the worst uh yes i'll put that one on there um i have two yes i have two uh okay my next one will be a call from the bank that's also never good because either you owe money or you probably had someone steal your identity the bank doesn't call to be like hey dude good job on your savings keep it up true they never do that uh you guys can tell me if this one's uh out of bounds for this but i think actually the worst call in the world is a holding after a really long run

oh and it gets brought back it's the worst that's that's bad when you win a when your team breaks a huge run and then it's like you don't see anyone moving you're like god damn it uh it's the uh the distant cousin of the roughing the pastor that comes in six seconds after like a long yes yes yes that is the word or a long incompletion you're like a run back like a uh kick off yeah like fuck actually when it's a turnover on downs and he's forced down god damn it see the ball land way down feeling it's like okay our defense did his job and then the flag comes in like oh Matthew's forgot to apologize to the quarterback after he sacked yeah so i guess the leak flag is the worst call that's pretty good uh i'm gonna say anyone you owe money to yep so in in a past

life when i used a bookmaker mm-hmm getting a call from your bookmaker would be something that would annoy me mm-hmm that would not want to take correct hank uh you guys took all my last ones but i will say oh you had all those i had the police i had oh i that was my first one um i liked it mount flushmore season liquor before really like sticking to it by like not being locked in whatsoever i kind of appreciate that liquor before beer yeah i know i'm clear beer before liquor i mean that's a bad call beautiful liquor okay and then joe buck saying rainy moss is looking thicker yeah that was a bad call yeah that is that was a bad call i'm gonna go with good job hank thanks good job hank thanks good job oh thanks uh three missed

calls in a row from your mom mm when that's on your screen never good bonus bonus to that is uh any call from your parents at a weird hour like oh like a 12 30 or like a six in the morning call from your parents is instant heart attack i would say any call before noon on a weekend from your parents yeah and then it usually be my dad being like hey turn it to espian classic yeah dude don't do that there's a thunderstorm coming into the world please don't do not do that um all right my last one i'll do how about an airline also another place airlines don't call you to be like hey man free flight they call you to be like hey your flight was canceled or you know everything's getting changed or we lost your bags and they're gone forever right it's it's a we fucked up now you

have to deal with it yes just like if you get a call from a restaurant 15 minutes after you place an order they're calling you to tell you that everything that you ordered is now out of stock right exactly you're gonna have to wait an additional 45 minutes to get your food all right so embrace the bait give us the ones we missed the worst calls how about just a friend like your friend calling you like just text me yes this can be solved via text yes and you everybody has one friend that just likes to make that phone call now let me ask a question to the group here because we are going to start doing we're gonna churn out some lists maybe we actually start doing mouth flush more lists honestly like we did it a couple times let's now put out like

here is the worst actually this is a Mount Rushmore we just did a Mount Rushmore worst calls Mount Flushmore of calls to get wait do we'll rephrase it Mount Flushmore of phone calls Mount Rushmore of best calls to get Mount Flushmore of phone it should be just Mount Flushmore of phone calls we just did the Mount Flushmore of best calls to get we just crushed that Mount Rushmore of worst calls yeah you were chirping me I was like wait a second yeah I just realized that yeah fuck okay well so mouth flush more of best calls to get what even is a good call to get no one wants to get called for anything ever you won the lottery you won you won McDonald's millions was like yeah when is the last

time you I got you a piece got a hotel bonus points I went cruises all the time picks up that call you when cruises yeah congratulations oh yeah you congratulations you are qualified for a rebate on your tab I'm trying to remember the last time I got a phone call that I was like fuck yes all right let's just put out Mount Rushmore worse phone calls that's fine we'll just skip we'll just go back and forth switch back and forth between Mount Rushmore and now people on Twitter are gonna think they're gonna be a wait yeah these are good yes yes all right let's do some Tiger King the weirdest would you say it's the weirdest documentary yeah I

would say so I think overall given the characters the subject matter it's it's tough to get more interesting than that we have Robert Moore coming up who interviewed all of the characters who has a podcast out about Joe Exotic and Carol Baskin so we actually asked some more like in detail what's it like to be with these people which you should definitely listen to will let's just recap it from our perspective the craziest weirdest documentary you've ever watched I think definitely the weirdest document the weirdest group of people the weirdest group of people and I said this at the top and take out the side

characters who some of them like have drug addiction and it's it's kind of sad watching them get swept up in this in terms of main characters I don't think I like any of them I hate them all the most normal main character in this whole thing in my opinion was Rick Kirkham he was the the producer of the reality show yes for Joe Exotic and he was actually addicted to crack for like 25 years yes and he went to Oklahoma to kind of get away from that and then he found this guy and then he now he spends the rest of his days chain smoking in Norway as he's being interviewed for this documentary like so he fled Oklahoma and

then he fled wherever he fled to in the United States because he thought he's gonna get killed now he's he found the one restaurant in Norway that you can smoke in and that's all he does it's also like it's a perfect it's a perfect point because every like when you look through the whole part of the documentary there are all these little things that they bring up and you're like wait that's weird like you just had the guy whose Scarface was modeled after and that was only 20 minutes right like what every single side character in this could have their own documentary about them it's this is actually like exponential growth

yes in a reality show or in a documentary like they introduce you to doc and I wanted to see like six more episodes only about doc what's his name doc yeah not not even like forget even doc I'm talking about side side characters too where the guy who you start the entire documentary there's a woman with a nub with a missing an arm you're like well that's probably a tiger and there's a guy with two legs missing she identifies as a guy by the way oh my god fuck Kelsey okay Kelsey sorry and then there's a guy with two legs missing and he's like you probably think this was a tiger nope it was ziplining like what

yep and let's not let's not forget what his prosthetic legs look like so he's got like juggalo and saying clown posse legs yes he walks around so pretty bad ass also very intimidating so we're gonna say Hank I was just gonna say one of things that I was like keeping an eye on or what interesting me the most as like a production guy is like how much time and effort Joe exotic was putting into filming the behind the scenes and like when the producer was like oh he wanted everyone to film everything at all times and I was like it was like it's like the same mindset in my guy let's go see like what these views are it's like his

view his video views are like 1000 views yes like he was doing nightly shows every single night for years and years and years for no one looking for the breakthrough but he was still like he was just still adamant like you got to film everything got to get everything and the the one part when the guy said that uh the like whatever the barn burn now with all the footage yeah and he was like I cried I cried that was the saddest that was alligators died there's so much in the foot it you know about the alligator no the footage I don't hard drive I also have my suspicions that there were even alligators in that room

so oh okay I just trust do not trust anyone yeah anyone ever tell us so let's run through the characters I think that's the best way because it was it was one of those documentaries that was so interesting and weird and wild but it also probably could have been five episodes it did stretch out a little bit but the character so Joe exotic not getting to the fucking the the husband killing till the third episode was crazy crazy so Joe exotic number one I mean he's insane but you also like can't take your eyes off of him because he's not really a real person he's a cartoon character you also say you there's no

one to like I liked him up until like kind of the end I mean like the death threats were a little over the line right up until that part he clearly mistreating animals right like he got everybody addicted to math yeah like he made them marry him yeah the guy who should the 19 year old who showed up to his zoo and he was like hey do you when you watch porn do you like the small dicks or the big dicks when they're fucking the girl and then like the big dicks like oh you're gay yeah like that maybe like the the trucks filled with expired meat that he was feeding his animals yeah and a hundred

dollars a week to his employees he basically had he had a friend he had a plantation in the middle of Oklahoma but it's weird because I was not anti- jokes on I'm just saying that I was not watching it being like fuck this guy I was like this guy is electric as a character you could not take your eyes off his employees seem to like him his employees are all loyal I think he I think he had something I think he's not a good person I also will get to it when we get to Jeff Lowe but I don't think that he did I think he got set up but I don't think he's a good person but there is something about him that you really

can't like take your eyes off it's actually kind of pretty much everyone in this spot in this documentary and it's probably because they are the kings of their own little world but I hit the way he treated animals I was like I don't know if I really like this guy he also just the one thing that would seem pretty cool about hanging with Joe exotic it felt like every day they just be like all right three o'clock let's go blow some shit up yeah they had Tannerite everywhere they like Tannerite in the gift shop that was cool and also just every second of his life was like hey you want to go play with a fucking tiger

yeah and that's awesome too so when they're all these different characters stretched out all across the country they all have one thing in common and that's that they love exotic animals love them they love tigers I think there is one point where where Doc said every person on planet earth loves tigers and if they don't then they're lying to themselves and it's just their own insecurity showing through at first I was like that's a bold claim to make that like everyone loves tigers but the more I thought about it everyone the more I was like yes he is a hundred percent right and so they're all spread out

across the country and they all are the strangest human beings possible and then I thought about it was like why do all these tiger people why do so many strange people gravitate towards large cats and it occurred to me I actually think that being around these animals is a drug yes and it's no different from a drug you get addicted to the rush of these awesome animals that kill you that but you don't think that they can kill you because they grow up around you and you think that they're your friends and you do start feeling like God yes having a tiger in my opinion is no different than smoking crack for the first time

like it's cool I'm sure it feels great I've never done it and I've never played with a tiger but I'm sure it would be awesome and I'm sure I'd want to do it again and again and again until I tried to kill a competitor of mine and went insane smoking crack and tigers imagine that yeah yeah well that was Joe Exoxo so you brought doc Antel Bogdavon or whatever his name is yeah his name means God yeah Lord are you well according to him it's like no it's not God it's just that I own a galaxy so this guy there has never been a more clear this guy is an orgy guy than doc Antel that guy is always fucking or petting a

tiger or riding an elephant and at first you're like this is pretty sweet he's got a zoo he's a he's kind of like the upper-class Joe exotic he you know things look a little cleaner like just everything looks a little bit more on the up and up the ponytail display is a tremendous amount of confidence dude he is he just orgies and candles and wax and weird robes and everything going on there but the so you're like oh this kind of is nice like someone has these tigers and they're not crazy like Joe exotic oh whoops turns out he's kind of running a cult but he doesn't say it's a cult but he also has multiple wives and

coincidentally all those wives started as like 17 year old interns no but pick at their freedom went leave whenever they want they're not they're not against their will yeah oh that's what's going on just if they leave they happen to give up everything that they have in the entire world yeah they have to work from what 8 a.m. until midnight yes every day on tigers yeah and it seems like it's a pretty cool job to just be like swimming tigers all day but then you have to fuck in at the end of the day yeah Harold Baskin did the same shit though and she didn't even marry any of them well he also had that at least he knew his

his girl's names yes like Carol Baskin being like I don't know names away and say no the master of the universe tells you that your name did that yes see now I didn't know it changed the name you just thought they all had extremely exotic tiger like names I guess I was pay attention he also that do you notice that couch that he had when he was like here you want to want me like pet the tigers on the couch that was the biggest orgy couch ever it wasn't there what it wasn't even a couch it was just a couch but a huge bed for like 15 people yeah one one other cool part about owning some sort of tiger facility is that you I

think you get all the ATVs that you could ever want yes because everyone was just driving around on like sick four by four yes yes so Carol Baskin the other main part of this documentary wow well let's just start with she loves cats she loves all sizes of cats she loves tiger she loves lion she loves house cats and then she's like but I'm allergic to cats like okay well so you are crazy just out of the bat like don't I don't even know anything else you're crazy what's up cool cats and kittens cool cats and kids so she I think was designed to come off as the most sympathetic character at least in the first couple episodes but I

there was something wrong with about her like just from the get-go yep and you knew that you know what she's really good at she's really good at weaponizing sympathy for her son oh yeah so she is almost as messed up as Joe but she she plays it always using the I'm holier than that card she could teach a class on how to get maximum money out of a go fund me that was started yesterday yes like she could just hop on Twitter and be like hey here's this like cause then you look into it you're like wait where's this money going she's actually was a pain she's actually pretty dirty but she's great at pretending that she's

the cleanest one right and Hank mentioned but they waited till episode 3 to just do the story about how she probably I think they are litigious so we'll say probably maybe allegedly she's they thought of to a possibly they set it up to make it look like she killed her husband yes cuz she did well Hank maybe allegedly I did some I did love that moment when they're talking about Joe exotic getting attacked by a tiger and like there must been sardine like sardines in his no no no it was he says perfume and she said she slipped up she goes if I were gonna well if if you were if you know if somebody wanted to kill

someone she like literally was about to say if I were gonna kill someone with a tiger which that's what they think happened to her husband and she just it says like yeah I'd cover him in sardine oil she did the OJ Simpson if I did it live but she kind of leaves herself in the middle of the forward for her own book about murder and then they asked her about the meat grinder situation whether her husband had been ground up in a meat grinder and her response was no my husband's body wouldn't even fit like his wrist wouldn't even fit in that meat grinder that we had like like she had done the calculations dude how about

when she said her her brother was part of the police department and everyone was like well that's why they never looked into it and she goes my brother when I was 15 he was like he was nine so we didn't have a relationship wait what how is that just how does that just like clear you of your brother not helping you there were two years apart that was like Jessica saying Mark's only 24 did you know that my brother's nine there's no chance that he would investigate me and then the simp King Carol Baskin's husband legend legend of the simp game what what a wild like to knowingly marry a woman who might have

murdered her previous husband that's a crazy move to have that picture where he's on a leash at their wedding at their wedding to basically be like she's she just basically walks around being like sue them sue them sue them and he's like yep yep yep yep he looks like Prince Charles I don't know what to think I'm scared of that guy he's I'm more scared of that guy than I would be a joexotic even though joexotics like I'm like does meth and has guns exactly because that joexotics a friend Prince no Prince Charles would just sue you to Bolivia well also like joexotic you look at him and he wears his emotions on a

sleeve you know what's coming you know when he's magic he'll say before he ever shoots you he'll probably say publicly on a live like periscope stream at least nine times I'm gonna I'm gonna shoot this guy in his head you see this you see this dog here's the gun I'm gonna use I'm gonna shoot you just like this yeah but with with the simp King he has no emotion yeah he makes Jason Witton look like Eddie Murphy so he this guy just has like he totally straight face all the time and you never know what he's thinking right that's why he scares me and so then we get to which is this is where I was like okay I hate everyone because

they introduced Jeff Lowe and Jeff Lowe is the worst I've to like needed a middle initial yeah but he is the worst he Jeff Lowe like you knew that just like you know the the Bogdan is an orgy guy because he's got a ponytail a soul patch in a way oversized couch Jeff Lowe having ripped jeans being like 50 years old a bandana and a and a hat I think it was like a Fox racing hat or something no he alternated between like Fox racing affliction probably some monster energy knew he was a scumbag yeah I was a standard meth cheek looked at he had any had the quote a little a little pussy gets you a lot of pussy talking

about bringing little tiger cubs to Vegas to basically seduce women into having sex with him and his girlfriend so he was a swinger and he would just take the cubs through hotel lobbies in his suitcase which doesn't seem very sanitary to me and then just have a tiger hanging out in his hotel room right weekend and I guess that's I want to know what that transition moment was like when he'd meet a girl that was walking through the hotel maybe in Vegas and be like hey do you want to come play with this tiger she'd be like okay and then she gets in the room how does he make the move to turn it from like you're

petting this tiger to my wife is gonna watch me fuck you now I don't know but he's got some game yeah he's a detestable human being and he also at the end of the show was like they're gonna get Jeff Lowe and he was like where are they they're not gonna get me it's like yeah they probably will he takes over Joe exotic zoo he also I took a screenshot I actually screenshot each frame he didn't take it over that was the part so there's a lot of like when I was watching like a lot of similarities to Dave Dave Portnoy our boss with Joe exotic and one of the things that I was dying laughing at was the part when

they were like to deal with the lawsuits Joe exotic just started giving the zoo to other people like when Dave when we had the blackout or Dave was like oh like Paul like we're gonna start purple starfish so like for all the lawsuits like right that's going to you like right it was the exact same but but his giving the company to Jeff Lowe but Jeff Lowe his he set him up he set him up with this I believe he he admitted it he that was the part that was actually the most shocking at the end of the documentary I took a screenshot of what Jeff Lowe said because I couldn't believe that he like basically admitted on

camera he said this ready for this these are exact quotes I'm reading the subtitles he said what is setting up a person turning them in or allowing them to talk while you're recording them is that setting them up you know they call it set up I'd call it investigate and did I encourage him from time to time probably because I wanted that sound bite to give to the authorities to convict him and get him out of this business so yes he gave motive for it he's like I literally wanted him out of this business so I made sure that I recorded him and pushed him towards saying things on camera yeah Jeff Lowe

world-class scumbag and the behind-the-scenes recordings that he had with the hitman yeah so he even told the hitman he's like we need to get Joe exotic on the hook for this or else we could both be on the hook for it so it was very it was a well-documented setup and they recorded everything that they said because these are not the world's brightest criminals to begin with but yeah Jeff D. Lowe is not a great guy no and then we ended the pregnant and then he gets Jeff Jeff D. Lowe is a nice guy Jeff D. Lowe yeah yeah I'm just calling this guy okay that was by the way that saved me from because that when I first

started this documentary the first episode I was like I'm gonna get so many big cat memes from this but Jeff Lowe being just a terrible human being and being a central part I think saved me because he got all the me Jeff ran interference that was the other crazy part of the documentary for me was that like tigers were really not featured at all no no well they were they were a they're animals small small small small small part of the story correct what were you gonna say so I was gonna say so then Jeff Lowe takes over the zoo at the end yes but then he just bulldozes the zoo and he tries to start a new zoo what it

what is up with these people's obsession they just always have to own a zoo yeah always yeah there's no other way for them to make money he's like I gotta get rid of this zoo this dude's been nothing but trouble on my books I'm out of this zoo business now I'm gonna make a new and better zoo yeah well yeah cuz it's they just charge people for it's I mean the business model smart it's just like everyone wants to come see a tiger oh you want to pay people $100 a day yeah you want to you want to pick your tiger oh here we'll take the picture but it's gonna be like $100 yeah so so Jeff Lowe I think is probably going to end up

going down for something with all this right and then lastly before we get to Robert Moore who actually gives us like instead of making jokes about he actually gave us like actual analysis of all these figures and who we talked to we got to talk about the jet ski yes we got to talk about James Garrison James Garrison addicted to snitching he also does James Garrison think that we bought his I got arrested for having a lemur that's what I was gonna get into is he turned he turned FBI informant for a lemur he was wearing a wire going into Joe exotic zoo where they everyone was strapped with an AR-15 there there was

meth flying around left and right probably set an average of seven and a half felonies being committed every single day on the premises and he goes in there wearing a wire where everyone else is shirtless so first of all you're the guy in the shirt yep everyone else does not have one they're gonna eventually ask you hey man why are you always also also everyone else is like skinny and strung out and you're fat as fuck exactly so what what could the feds possibly have had on him to make him want to do this and his explanation was well they got you on that lemur charge yeah my lawyer he said buddy they're

gonna string you up by your toenails for buying that lemur without paperwork and then he has the classic scene the jet ski scene that was he had to have asked for he had to have asked for and after the jet ski scene he's like I might not be done like I might just keep snitching he really just said that he was like yeah this this story is not over I'm just gonna start snitching on everything the jet ski scene was this documentary's hard knocks Baker Mayfield spiral moment it was like a just a slow-mo six-shot of this alpha dude coming at you fucking see you do yeah god damn it maybe want to go by a C do actually yeah he was

Kenny Powers in real life he's uh it was just credit to the credit to the the directors because that was such I was just laughed out loud when that happened it's a documentary about tigers and we got a fucking guy on his wave runner whipping around in probably some shitty-ass lake in Oklahoma yeah strapped with the world's tightest life vest yeah he was able to save yeah listen buddy the shit that it's probably bulletproof because he snitches on everyone yeah that guy's gotta be looking around every corner I mean every one of the town knows that this guy's a snitch yeah and but he's not moving he's like yeah I'm a

snitch and I'm owning it that's my job as I snitch on people what a wild wild do you know what he does for a living that's that was the other question that I yeah I think he had like it seemed like he had some type of appliance store I don't know which makes sense because they were saying that if he had credit card fraud like he was stealing people's credit card numbers which that would make sense not the lemur mm-hmm but yeah it looked when they did a shot of his store I think I saw a TV and a fan but he had like he also had the lemur too yeah it was like a exotic pet slash radio all these people just get a dog when they

happen to just getting a dog when they showed his name on on camera it said was it James what's his last name's Garrison James Garrison businessman and like just open-ended business me all that says is this guy is a tax libel yeah professional snitch this guy hasn't paid his taxes in seven years he will he will turn himself in in a second just so you can be an informant okay let's get to Robert Moore really fascinating because he actually tells us what all these guy people are like in real life because he talked to him you have an ad real quick before I do I've gotten either or for you yeah if so they're making a movie out

of it right they're like a full-length narrative how Kate McKinnon's gonna play Carol I'm not in love with that is this true yeah whoa yeah so I you can't be real life yes it's not gonna be as over the top as real life is like it's not believable as a movie if if he was still alive would you rather have Philip Seymour Hoffman or Steven Seagal playing Doc Antle Steven Seagal in his prime playing Doc Antle would be pretty pretty good yeah pretty pretty good maybe Jim Gaffigan I don't know I'm still gonna go see the movie but actually you know who would be great for Doc Antle in high fidelity Tim Robbins playing the new

boyfriend okay he had a ponytail and they had crazy tantric sex yep he I could see it in my like I can close my eyes and see him in high fidelity just make him Doc Antle are Kelly's dad from from love is blind yes play doc absolutely all right before we get to this interview it's sponsored by simply safe with home security there are two ways you can go about protecting your home there's the traditional way that's where you wait weeks for a technician to do a messy installation and it costs you a small fortune or there's the other way and it's called simply safe simply safe is everything you need in a home security

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shipping and a 60-day risk-free trial you got nothing to lose go to simply safe comm slash PMT and now for something completely different okay we now welcome on Robert Moore and he is an author of the New York Times best-selling book on trails and he spent four years reporting a podcast miniseries about the life of Joe Exotic which is available now from Wondery called Joe Exotic Tiger King it is obviously the documentary that everyone has watched I would assume that your podcast is supplementary to that where you get to talk to more of these crazy characters so let's let's start just like in a big picture is this the

weirdest craziest story that you've ever encountered oh no question yeah there's no doubt this is the weirdest story I've ever reported you know the type of writing I do tend to be a little bit more subdued and philosophical but I just kind of stumbled into this one and yet really got its claws into me so to speak yes now did you talk to everyone that we saw in the documentary or what was your like main focus for your podcast I spoke to almost everyone you see in the documentary although our focus for the podcast is much more on the rivalry and the feud between Joe and Carol that I don't know if you guys have ever

listened to a Wondery podcast before they did dirty John they did Dr. Death they gladiator the Aaron Hernandez story they came to make these very narratively driven stories it's almost like a movie for your ears although it's all true it's all journalism so that was their focus they really wanted me to focus on the characters of Joe and Carol we go into a lot more detail about their life history and their motivations or psychology and then we just sort of marched through time showing how this thing developed Eric and Rebecca we made the Netflix documentary focused on the whole world of big cats they have

all these quirky side characters like Mario to brow the guy who is you know the model for Scarface or Doc Antle those guys I mean I spoke to Doc Antle I never spoke to Mario to brow I never talked to a lot of those more ancillary people but almost everyone you see relating to Joe and Carol whether it's relating to Joe's life with you or Carol life and the disappearance of Don Lewis I have spoken with at one time or another so with with your focus on Joe and Carol I noticed that in the series itself they did a deep dive into the disappearance of Carol's husband now I don't know I haven't listened to your

podcast yet but I have heard somebody tell me that that wasn't as much a focus in in what you chose to cover is that accurate to say it's accurate to say I mean we do we do focus on it they gave it basically a whole episode we give it like maybe a half of an episode in in one of ours and did go pretty as deep as we could and as deep as we felt was was fair you know we tried to we also spoke with Don's kids we I spoke with a lot of people who wouldn't go on the record and one of the interesting things about this is that people are really afraid of Carol some people are afraid of her in terms of literally afraid for their

lives I had more than one person tell me that but most people are afraid of a lawsuit so they won't talk because she's very litigious and you know as a journalist you're kind of bound by what material you get and what you can substantiate at this point that case is still an open case it you know there just is not quite enough evidence to draw a fair conclusion about it I know a lot of people are jumping to the conclusion that she did it and you know that's that's their right to do so but really most people who are closest case just want one or two more pieces of evidence or one solid eyewitness to

step forward because the cops never felt that they had enough to make a solid case but then again they kind of I mean they bungled the investigation according to most people close with it they just didn't handle the evidence well enough they didn't interview everyone enough it just didn't go deep enough so people want to see that come to a resolution I thought one of the funnier parts of the documentary is when they're talking to the detective from the Florida Police Department and he seemed to be you know somewhat coppish with his mannerisms and the way that he spoke but then you notice that he was also doing the interview in a

room that had like clown masks on the wall and like a monkey dressed up as a butler next to him holding a tray and then a tiger holding up a glass coffee table on the other side of him so it's like yeah there's really nobody involved in this entire documentary that isn't a little bit weird I mean that's true of pretty much everyone in this yeah in this world like exotic animal people are strange but also just the people in the orbit of Joe and Carol and especially Joe are just strange people and I think that's one of the great one of the great strengths of the documentary is they tended to pull that out I mean they have

a great eye for weird details I don't know how they got Alan Glover to sit in a bathtub for example during this interview there's a lot of just odd stuff like that you know interviewing John Finlay with no shirt on they just sort of have an eye for drawing out the strangeness in that in the story which there's you know there's a lot of it to go around so I'm fascinated by the Carol Joe dynamic and the part that I can't get over is like at the end of the day in a weird way they sort of needed each other and they both kind of helped each other was there any feeling from either of them like deep down like I know I

hate this person but Carol it's good for business that Joe exotic is out there and it's good for his business for Joe exotic that Carol Baskins is out there was there any acknowledgement by either party that like hey this kind of helps us at the end of the day make some money Joe would often say that he would often say you know look we profit off each other and as much as he hated her and he truly did hate her I mean he told me he wanted to shoot her in the head he told me he dreamed seeing her brains on a wall and then told me all to describe how he's gonna mutilate her body you know he deeply deeply hated her

but at the same time he would admit yeah I get attention I get I raise money for my followers off of humanizing her if he believed she felt the same way now Carol won't admit to that she would say look if I can make Joe go away I would and in fact she she made many offers to him she tried to get him you know she would alleviate his debt if he would just go away stop breeding cubs stop letting letting people pet them and just disappear because she said like this enough of these other guys to go around I mean she's going after Doc Antol and Marga Chabral and a bunch of other people simultaneously she didn't need Joe

exotic but Joe kind of did need Carol he needed a foil to make himself look like the hero in the story yeah Joker needs Batman yeah that kind of thing with with Carol and her her husband that she has now is he just like bank Charles yeah is he is he bankrolling her entire thing that she's got going on or like how much money is Carol bringing in from her I guess it's ostensibly a rescue that she runs down there but is that what's funding all her lawsuits and things like that or does she have her husband that's kind of backing her up you know it's interesting to say that Howard's a really he's an interesting guy

you know he went to Harvard Business School he had the law degree he's a very smart guy I don't get the sense he was overwhelmingly wealthy before he met Carol I think he was successful but not rich but the thing you got to keep in mind is she inherited her late husband's real estate empire and it sort of an empire as far as I understand low-cost you know just maybe a step above trailers but it's a low-cost housing she's almost I've heard people call her slumlord I don't know if that's fair but she makes a lot of money off of that real estate business to this day so I think that's where a lot of the money

goes in also you know they fundraise like crazy big cat rescue pulled in you know millions of dollars every year in donations and it just keeps growing and growing so she doesn't really need Howard's money now the I assume you you went to both properties multiple times right I did yeah so I would love to get a little bit of a more of an inside look on Carol's operation because there were there was that piece in the documentary where they kind of accused her of like look she only has like 10 big cats they're not treated that well she uses essentially just a system of unpaid labor to keep this thing going what was

that operation what did it look like because it did strike me as odd at the end of the day this is the person supposed to be saving them did she have her own tigers and lions in a good situation or was it more of the big cat rescue is more like a brand that isn't really the actual physical zoo yeah I think it's more of the latter like people do attack it got it animal people do tend to attack her for that and I'm not that much of an expert on it I walked through there a couple of times I thought it was okay you know that the cages are a little bit rusty looking that they paint them with brown rust

only on paint you can't really tell what's rust and what's paint and there is a lot of like a lot of leaves and things growing you know some of those shots were a little bit misleading or make it look like there's a tiger in like a tiny cage but actually that was like a little area where they stick their head into feed it's all right it's not great it could be a lot nicer and there would miss that but what they will say and especially Howard when I'll tell you that's not our focus in fact they could have spent a lot more money expanding the sanctuary but what you do when you expand the sanctuary is that

you send a signal out to people who are breeding these cats like Joe okay once they grow up once they get too big to pet now there's somewhere to send them so you're actually petuating the problem what you want to do is keep your sanctuary small but put all the money into the advocacy side where you're trying to pass the laws to shut down people like Joe because he really was he was breeding dozens of these tigers and lions and ligers and li-ligers and tie ligers in his weird hybrid every year he's pumping them out according to some people he's the number one breeder in the country that just creates this

this problem it's like a whirlpool effect when you have more and more tigers that people have to take care of so where do they end up either they end up going to a sanctuary like Carol's or they get sold into a backyard zoo or worse yet they just get shot in the head and thrown in a field somewhere which which Joe would do yeah so with with Joe and the cast of characters he has around him in Oklahoma one of the first things I noticed in this documentary was just like looking at the tattoos and some of the lack of teeth on some of the guys I was like there has got to be some some meth going around this place

meth is is playing a big part in this type of decision-making and just his entire world and they touched on it briefly in like episode five or six did you get that vibe from hanging out around Joe that there there was just like a lot of drug use going on oh I mean 100% it's it's a the moment you walk in the door there's a mess vibe about the whole place the employees and and Joe you know the employees all lived in these trailers and on on on natural property and Joe kind of locked them in at night they weren't really even allowed to leave a lot of them were very down on their luck a lot of them were former

meth users or current meth users just out of prison you know they had really hit the bottom of their lives and then there's Joe and his husbands and they were all I later learned doing meth as well you know Joe publicly was very anti-drug he would actually go around giving anti-drug awareness speeches and I had someone in the podcast who says that he would actually would go on stage like having just snorted a line of cocaine or just on a bump of meth and then give these like very hyperactive speeches about how you shouldn't do drugs you know he but he was clear and you look at his manners as he twitches

his nose constantly he's very fidgety you know there but he's clearly on some kind of uppers and I've had many people who told me that that was his sort of recreation of choice you know when he would have a little bit of time off he and John Finley his husband would go rent this a room and it's like notorious gay cruising motel called the Havana Inn in Oklahoma City and they would hold up there for a couple days and just you know do meth and have orgies so that that was and John confirmed that to me John Finley confirmed that yeah there's quite a bit of meth going on but at the same time Joe claims and did in fact he

would fire any employee on site if he saw them high or even drunk because you know it was a legitimate danger to have people working around tigers and not being mentally sharp so he's kind of a I mean he was a full-on hypocrite when they came to that the other fascinating part about this documentary when you look at it from like you take a step back and all the people that they interviewed and like when you look at Doc, Carol Baskins, Joe Exotic, even Mario they all are kind of the same where they built this like world around them where they can be the king of that world or the queen of that world and it's like an ego draw for them much more

than it is about the animals was there when you were talking to them could you sense that that it was it really wasn't about the animals anymore like the animals were apart but it really was I want to be the king of this little world this fiefdom that I have and I have this insatiable ego that I need to like always be quenching it did you sense that when talking to them? Yeah that's very astute I think that's right and that's something that even Carol has said to me that big cat ownership is about power it's about people's obsession with power and dominance and they think if they can

have this big cat and they can get into the cage with it and play around with it that shows how powerful they are and look at me I can survive getting into a cage with a tiger and you know Joe told me that many times I'm a man who walks with tigers you know he and I think that they all definitely did construct worlds around themselves in which they were in total control and that's that's true Carol as well you know but but especially Joe I mean that was his kingdom within the bounds of that part he had total control get total control over his employees get total control to a disturbing degree over his

boyfriend and you know get total control over the animals as well and so things went on in that park they were he's almost like above the law because they locked up at night no one can get in there I don't know if you guys got this from the documentary but he lives inside the zoo he actually lives inside a kind of a cage his house is surrounded on all sides like cages that were filled with dogs and lions wow so like no one could touch him in there you can do whatever you want it that's that's crazy yeah I mean that's how I feel every time I get done with a podcast with Dan he's our big cat if I can alpha him I walk out of

this podcasting room feeling invincible yeah feeling great about that and so he had so he had his husbands around him they worked with him he kept them very controlled kind of on lockdown like you mentioned did you get any vibes from them that they were straight men that were somehow like tricked into becoming gay and marrying a man or was this all like was it just something about Joe where these guys are straight but they will marry this guy Joe because he's such a powerful personality I think he was more the former they were all the ones that I talked to John Finley says he's straight you know he also said he loved

Joe he says like I really did love him I love that guy you know that he had a real love for him but the same time he was 18 years old when he got you know when he started working there and he wasn't a real you know he wasn't a very I don't get the sense he's very worldly guy he was pretty you know so yeah Joe Lurid and then he did the same to Travis Travis was 19 years old he showed up there just because he wanted to work on this television crew and Joe with what he would do my impression is he would sort of say well come come and just stay in my house you know and you don't have to be a couple we'll just with Travis he

said we'll just pretend to be a couple it's just for the reality show it won't be real and then slowly over time he wear them down and wear them down and wear them down until they were finally sleeping in his bed with him and then he would give them drugs and then he would convince them to you know actually sleep with him and then suddenly years would go by and they were like married to him you know and it was this it was a very strange thing to watch happen and it happened over and over again it's not just with these guys there were other guys that aren't in the documentary there's a guy in a JC heart pet who came

before all this who is a real you know just a real piece of work he ended up he's now in prison for life for from first-degree murder and before that was in prison for molesting a young girl you know he'd pick up these guys in the game of the calm rough trade notice there's it's a thing with young straight guys sometimes we'll do it because hey they don't have to work they get to play with baby tigers to get all the drugs they want you buy them cars you buy them four-wheelers you buy them guns it was kind of a sweet deal provided they could put up with with being Joe's husband yeah alright so my last question is kind

of a weird one coming off that answer but there was a moment at the end of the documentary and I really do find almost everyone in the documentary and I'm gonna listen to your podcast again everyone should go check it out it's on Wondery and it probably will give you a lot more context on everything that was maybe missed on the documentary but there was a moment that I was like is Joe exotic a tragic figure like I had a moment where I was like this guy is you know a gay guy who knew he was gay when he was very young in a in a community that didn't welcome him in Oklahoma you know the story about his dad basically

being like don't come to my funeral you know the accident that he went through was there ever a sense where you're like this guy is just like there's a tinge of tragedy here in his life that has led him to being kind of a terrible person yes I think that's completely right and and there's more to the story even then the documentary goes into he Joe told me he was sexually abused repeatedly when he was five years old and then like you said he grew up this gay kid you know kind of shy a feminine gay kid growing up in Kansas and Wyoming these tiny towns in Texas and he was bullied you know and he turned to animals

that was his love he really did genuinely care about animals he would take in you know raccoons and snakes and deer and things when he was a kid that had been injured he had nursed them back to health and then the piece of the puzzle that's also missing from from the documentary that we go into in greater detail in the podcast of he you know so he finally comes out and finds this guy named Brian Ryan they find they find themselves together in Dallas and living in a trailer and they're raising poodles they have a pet store that they own and then Joe decides to open this this you in honor of his brother who died and

another zoo rather a sanctuary really what Carol runs today is what Joe wanted to run back then he didn't want to breed or buy or sell animals he just wanted to rescue animals and to open this place his husband Brian helps him build it and then Brian dies of complications related to HIV you know essentially dies of AIDS and it breaks Joe's heart from what everyone told me Joe changed you know this guy his love of his life died basically in his arms in the parking lot of a hospital and afterwards his character changed he started to be attracted to these young straight guys you know who are very rough around the

edges he and he started being obsessed with his own ego in his own sense of power and there's a way to construe it is like but he was a really sensitive vulnerable guy who built this armor around himself this armor of ego and this armor of glamour and the zoo all of it was there to sort of protect himself from ever getting hurt again and yet it ultimately consumed him because it just kept growing and growing out of his control and you could never get enough money to feed the tigers so he didn't increasingly outlandish things and he can never get enough attention you know and all if you look at what he

did being a magician being a country music star being a reality show star being a politician it was all about feeding his ego and building this sense of being larger than life so a lot of people when I talk to you about Joe exotic and when I describe him when I'm you know telling the story to friends they say that doesn't sound like a real person you know they take a photo of him like that doesn't look like a real person that looks like a character and this is a big piece of the puzzle is that that's how someone turns out like that is that he's got a lot of emotional scar tissue and ultimately he turned

into the thing that he hated most when he first started that he turned into an animal abuser he turned into a killer of animals and now irony of irony he's gonna spend the rest of his life in a cage yeah right it's incredibly tragic so it sounds like he he created an image to distract from his own personality so nobody would ever get too close to Joe they would just know Joe exotic and everything that Joe exotic projected it was like he created a new person so he never had to deal with some of those feelings exactly I mean they someone told me basically in those words said you know after Brian died Joe exotic

started to disappear I'm sorry Joe Schreiber will start to disappear Joe exotic was born and she said by 2015 there was no Joe Schreiber left it was all Joe exotic that that the mask that he was wearing had eaten into his face until there was nothing left it was all a mask and when you talk to Joe that's the impression you get there is it's all masks on top of masks it's like layers upon layers of lies and then lying about the country music he's lying about having cancer he's lying about his past he made up all sorts of stories to me about his past and things that had happened to him he just there was no

like interiority anymore it was all exterior it's a really creepy thing when you spend as many hours as I have talking to him to experience someone like that so even though the country music stuff as I've heard recently was not actually Joe singing and I'm very upset about that can we at least admit that those songs were pretty good like I enjoyed here kitty kitty yeah I love it there's finally this appreciation for for his music it's really it's not for his music to the music of the Clinton Johnson band who voted recorded those songs yeah I did funny he played those songs incessantly he played them when

you walk into the gift shop they're playing on a on a TV there on a continuous loop and then when he recorded his nightly web show he played videos multiple times whenever you're in the car with him he played the songs so after a week with him and then having having to listen to those interviews open ever again those songs are like feared in my brain I cannot even hear them anymore it makes me like my skin crawl but I love that the world is now discovering you know the the amazing ironic joys of I saw a tiger and you ever see pretty woman lover that's that's a particularly strange one Joe describes his love of

of pretty women so did he did he actually have any part in writing those songs or did he just like contract out a band and say hey here's what I want the song to be about I'll let you take it from here yeah you tell the band what the song should be about and then they would write and record it and you know they're quite an accomplished little country music band based out of Washington the reason I found out about it was because Joe's stiffed them he didn't he didn't pay them for one of the songs basically stole one of their songs and they you know asked him about it and told him to you know fuck off and then

they got so mad that Vince Johnson the songwriter called me up and told me everything that had happened unreal well Robert thank you so much everyone go listen to his podcast on one uh Wondery he also has a book we got to get you back on man because you told us a little bit about your book before we started on trails you can buy it uh New York Times bestseller we're we're gonna have to maybe do a podcast where we get in deep about this uh book because it sounds fascinating yeah I love that thanks so much for having me on guys one last thing because I just saw this here uh Joe's asking for a presidential pardon

right now from Trump what are can you give me a percentage just like I know that you're not intimately involved in the details of the case but what percentage do you think Donald Trump pardons Joe exotic I was saying uh someone between zero and two percent okay so there's a chance yeah that's that's Joe's ego but like Joe Joe loves Trump and that that was what inspired him to run for president and governor and the first he looked at Trump and he said well if he can do it so can I so I think he's holding that out as as his last hope incredible all right well Robert thank

you so much everyone go follow him Robert Moore uh underscore no e on the end so m o o r underscore and uh we really appreciate it man thank you yeah thanks so much love you guys she was a rich woman she had rich taste she felt the blood running through her vein she liked the light she had she loved her big cats and the beauty of being me and it got a little crazy you got a little hazy and the cops said there's something wrong say up to me oh it's no better to be safe than southern

baby it's part of my take presented by bars dual sports