Pardon My Take - Michael Jordan's Trainer Tim Grover, Stories About MJ, Last Dance 7 & 8 Review, Mt Flushmore Of Teammates

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

Last Dance episode 7 and 8 were the best of the series as we finally get to see the real MJ. Calling people ho, making up slights to get himself motivated, retirement and coming back all discussed. (2:14-21:17) Who's back of the week including Norman Chad's terrible column and UFC periscopes. (23:45-35:14) Michael Jordan's long time trainer Tim Grover joins the show to talk about the Last Dance, training MJ, what it was like making the transition to and from baseball, the flu game, and much more. (38:14-1:22:56) Mt Flushmore of teammates (1:24:45-1:41:58) and Billy Football's deep dive into Murder Hornets (1:44:14- 2:04:18)You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/PardonMyTake

Hey, pardon my take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen, ad-free, on Amazon Music. On today's part of my take, we have Michael Jordan's longtime trainer, Tim Grover. Great conversation with him about MJ's training, his competitive drive, what actually happened at the flu game, the food poisoning game, as he explains. In this interview, we also have Last Dance episodes 7 and 8 recap. We have Who's Back of the Week, the Mount Flushmore of teammates, and Billy Football

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You get $10 for free, $10 to ASPCA. Today is Monday, May 11th in PFT. I think those were the two best episodes of the last dance. I'm going to start with a quote actually. The last montage in episode seven when MJ was talking about his competitive drive and he said, people will see this and say he wasn't a nice guy and he may have been a tyrant. Well that's you because you never want anything. You never want to have me ready to run through a brick wall.

Those were two awesome episodes. The thing is he was right. Like MJ sees the world on a different level from everybody else and yes that probably makes him an asshole for the rest of us but on the other hand it also is exactly what made him great and he was crying because I think he was crying because he was so pissed off that people didn't expect as much from themselves as he did from everybody else or maybe he was just crying because he was thinking oh shit MJ you're about to cry. That sucks.

You better oh man I'm going to cry because I'm thinking about myself crying. I think he might have been crying because he probably at times has felt misunderstood. You talk about the first, they had that whole segment in episode seven. I thought episode seven was the strongest episode of the entire documentary. It was so so well done but him retiring the media narrative that started that was like oh well it must have something to do with his dad getting shot must have something to do with his gambling which that is one of those times where I'm happy this didn't happen in 2020 because though like the conspiracy theorist would be out of control.

It'd be so it'd be so much worse than it was already with the media running with it. On the other hand I agree with you. I think that there would be so much stuff out there about his dad getting shot and how it was MJ's fault but it would come from people who weren't established in the media. It's wild to think that in the mid 90s media all these people who were given columns were no better than just like some Twitter egg that weren't to like put this shit out there and they got away with it and they still have jobs to this day. It's crazy like I know when when Sean Taylor was shot there was some stuff that came out

too like with Coward and Michael Wilbon. It's wild at the end of the day where all Twitter eggs just some of us have a much bigger platform and the fact that they went like straight up with this narrative is just insane to me. Yeah it was insane and it's put that episode and how much it affected him and coming back and the I'm back press conference. It was all so good and I think this also the reason why these two episodes were so great was it really was MJ to his core with the shit talking calling Scott Borrell a hoe which very very funny.

I wonder though when they did that do you think they sat down do you think ESPN sat down and was like we like should it be H.O.E. or H.O. like actually have a discussion over it. Whoever was doing the subtitles that was Jordan that was Jordan getting final cut like that was really the only reason that he wanted to make sure that he had the last view on this was that he can make sure that his subtitles of talking shit to Scott Borrell were 100% accurate. I actually think that the meanest thing that he said to Scottie was go home and feed your

cat go home and feed your cat is like get your fucking shine box. The meanest thing he said was that he's a nice guy. Yeah well that was the best he was so mad about it because he was like yeah I basically tried to get Scott Borrell to fight me for forever and he just wouldn't do it he's too nice of a guy. Yeah. Scott Borrell also weirdly in the like we'll get to the Steve Kerr and how MJ respects Steve Kerr because he went at him but Scott Borrell was the was the only guy who in MJ's career

could have been like dude I was a better baseball player than you. He was drafted in the first round in Major League Baseball. You probably didn't want to say that because Jordan would have murdered him if he had said that to him. That would have been like a bridge too far for him and kind of the whole narrative in this whole thing is you know MJ was an asshole but he was competitive as part of his personality and being an asshole it can make you exceptional. I actually I want to rephrase that if you are exceptionally talented at what you do

and you're an asshole then people view it through a different prism of okay you're bringing out the best in everybody and if but if you're an asshole and you're anything less than great then you're just Lance Stevenson you know you're just like a guy that nobody really will ever truly care about that much but with MJ like the combination of his talent and his personality like you don't say that him being a jerk made him great but you're saying that his greatness like yeah he probably would not have been looked at in the way that we look at him right now if he didn't have that personality. Well yeah it's chicken and the egg because it's you can't have that personality if you

were not that much better than everyone else you know what I mean you can't push I thought that the part where he said I never asked anyone to do something I didn't do myself that is what a true leader is you know what I mean whether you whether you agree with his tactics whether you agree with the bullying and pushing people to the limit that's a different discussion I happen to agree with it because it's professional sports it's not like corporate America there's a lot different you know when you're pushing yourselves as hard as you can to be the greatest team ever you're gonna have to make sacrifices and people there won't like BJ Armstrong said it perfectly he can't be nice you cannot be nice and be what he is he is an insanely

competitive guy who's better at basketball than everyone he plays with so it just just that existence it's impossible to be nice when you have to you know like he said to Bill Wellington jump on the cape and you know don't let go and the whole thing was great and my favorite part of the two episodes is the three different stories we have of MJ seeking vengeance and it all comes it was perfectly done by the director because he basically like showed that no matter what you do you're fucked so he had you started with BJ Armstrong going off against the bulls in the playoffs and then MJ being like fuck that and shutting him down the next game just shitting on him then you had LeBratford Smith

the famous LeBratford Smith story the nice game mic which MJ admittedly just made up and on top of that the I don't even know if they mentioned it but the bulls won both those games so every was just mad that a guy named LeBratford Smith scored 37 points like they still won the game and then you have George Carl not saying hello at at dinner so it's either you sell you celebrated too much you didn't say hello or you literally did absolutely nothing but your own job in LeBratford Smith no matter what you're fucked yeah I was thinking about that like MJ is very good at making up reasons to be mad about people in this case his reason to be mad about George Carl was the fact that he didn't have anything to get mad at

George Carl about because he didn't say hi to him it's like maybe George Carl was told at one point in his life if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all so Michael Jordan was like he's he wants to say all the worst things to me but he's being too polite so therefore he thinks very bad things about me I'm keeping a running track of the names that MJ has ended he's literally taken names people are not Smith yeah never scored 20 points again in his career I think he was out of the league a year later not not only that LeBratford Smith is out of the league but nobody's named LeBratford anymore nobody is named Clyde anymore he no one was named LeBrat I'm keeping track I'm keeping track no one's named Clyde anymore he ended Clyde

after Clyde Drexler he ended LeBratford he ended Craig I actually looked this up babies named Craig since the Craig Elo shot have shot down 97% 97% in that time no one's named Craig anymore and I think Reggie I think you can add Reggie to that list there aren't any babies named Reggie anymore that was a great start to the whole thing the way to go Craig after he asked Jerry Krauss like straight up like hey how about this backstabbing and then he ended the yeah big J on J crime way to go Craig you ruined it for everyone it was the whole thing was great I you know the emotional end to episode seven was awesome I also the Father's Day win which Randy Brown grabbing the ball was so cringy and at the moment and it still holds up as like one of the worst like read the room

moments after the Bulls beat the Sonics and he just jumps in like a loot trying to get a loose ball out of MJ's hands when it's like clearly he's so emotional Father's Day all these things um what else did what else did we have there was uh I mean there there was a lot about the minor league baseball career that I thought it was interesting like I never knew I think I'd heard it before but I'd forgotten that when he went to double A the only reason he went there was because the facilities had enough space to accommodate the media that we're going to be following MJ around and his time spent in the minor leagues like Terry Francona saying that if he had gotten more at bats he could have been a major leaguer he was that determined

baseball is one of the sports though where he was talking about how many how much batting practice he was taking and at the end of the day his hands would just be raw with blisters you reach a limit to how many times you can swing a bat in a day so it's just one of those things that's going to take longer in terms of you know the amount of days that you spend practicing that not necessarily just like practicing balls to the wall every single day it doesn't always work like that but he hit he hit 268 I think I believe in the fall league so he was clearly making like pretty big you know signs of progression and this is a guy who had not played baseball in whatever 12 years 15 years and like it's pretty insane for him to go there and not just strike out every

single day and then go back where he clearly wasn't a hundred percent um you know we have Tim Grover coming up he actually put a percentage to it coming out of baseball but you know dropping a double nickel against the Knicks and and you know being like Nick Anderson pushing him to change his number which I love that moment because it's another like Michael Jordan cannot handle anyone trying to test him because he the whole thing was he's wearing 45 because he wanted to have 23 be the last time his dad saw him play was when he wore 23 and then Nick Anderson says one thing about him he's like fuck this I'm wearing 23 yeah exactly it's like you know what it's sentimentality that only takes you so far in life I'm immediately going back yeah I there's no way to win you cannot win

by talking shit to Michael Jordan it's just it's impossible and the smart people don't talk shit to him I thought I so I was looking back at his minor league career a little bit and thinking not only it's impressive that he was able to do what he did in that short time period or period but he was also six foot six so his strike zone was fucking massive so it made it that much more difficult on him and if I was a pitcher I definitely would have given up I would have tried to serve him up a meatball because there's no easier way to get on a sports center than just grooving one to Michael Jordan and have him take you 450 feet yep yep true facts we're gonna say Hank I was gonna say uh not about the baseball but the fact that they're the space jam dome was on a movie set it means that

there should be more footage from that like you always talk about the other the new sports games like putting up old footage there should be like full games from those scrimmages how unless unless MJ was betting so much on those games he was like don't put the cameras in here which he was probably betting so much on those games and that is that was such an awesome like to see all those guys out there um like Ewing Reggie Miller Joanne Howard like everyone's just showing up to play basketball in the middle of the summer and what they don't realize is they're just giving Michael Jordan scouting reports so that he can kick their ass next the following year the other thing I was thinking during that is that like when LeBron tries to do that no one that's why that's like no one's gonna

come he's just gonna be like oh like come out I got this whole basketball court like come play with me and everyone's just like yeah no like I'm good I like I like how he picked so many good players to go out there and then he just picked Shawn Bradley to come out so that everybody would be able to dunk on him that was like the icing on the cake it's like hey I know I'm paying you for this movie and I know it's gonna be a long summer but on the bright side you're gonna be able to teabag Shawn Bradley three times a day yes yes yes Shawn Bradley looking so fucking skinny dribbling down the court oh man um the Steve Kerr practice that was that was a wild ride that we went on it's like the only way that you can get Jordan to actually respect you as a teammate is if you let

him punch you in the face and you come back the next day and let it be water under the bridge under the bridge be like you know what you were right to hit me I was I was doing too much I put I pushed you in the chest yeah it's um it also was notable that Steve Kerr said I think he chose his words specifically for that one when he said the the 96 team was the best team he's ever been a part of did you catch that mm-hmm he did say that part so and I don't know when they filmed that I would assume was after the you know the 73 win warriors but it um yeah I mean Steve Kerr getting punched by MJ's like a moment that everyone talks about I wish we had it on camera yeah I don't know I I feel like that it's obviously never good but it also happens like guys get testy and guys

you know they're emotional if Scott seems like it happened like yeah double double or triple digit times in his career right if Scott bro wasn't such a nice guy he would have fought MJ like 16 times right I think it probably happens a lot more than we know about it just doesn't get talked about because teams have a tendency to keep things in house it happens all the time in football I'm sure it happens all the time basketball if there was footage of that practice we would probably not to like say that there are elements of provocation on Steve Kerr's part but that haircut that he had was asking to get hit in the face that was like that that's Karen walking into Mother's Day brunch with her Yelp app opened ready to leave the server bad review like Steve Kerr was kind of asking to

get hit when you're walking in wearing that mop the other thing I wrote out a couple other notes about the so the retirement obviously there's the conspiracy theories that he was suspended I think those are are way overblown but it's fun just to talk about them but they're not true but it is funny there's a lot of play I think MJ was he was already talking about how he might retire before you know in books before the you know his dad died so it was and before the gambling stuff but it is funny the idea that like if you push a man who loves to gamble too far he'll just quit everything like don't tell a man he can't gamble he'll just pack up and be like nope I'm out no he's probably stoked to get to minor league baseball and have like way more teammates that he can win

money off of in cards yes yes um the the uh iPad thing that the director does is fucking incredible the Gary Payton scene was so good it's just it's great seeing these guys react mostly MJ react in real time to an interview they've never seen before it's so so good I hope every every documentary does that from here on out it's really good and especially with MJ just because he anytime MJ looks at something on iPad it's an instant meme people were saying that the coach Doug's MJ laughing meme was one of the top five like a Mount Rushmore meme of you know the entire existence of the internet I didn't say that but sad sad state of affairs that you have to you have to go back to you know trolling in the comments it's okay give you clout that's all yeah that's the best

that you saying I'm I'm I'm Ali open you yep it does motion it does it really does all big time big time promotion everyone's gonna go see that and be like I gotta go watch tomorrow night it's it becomes more of a conversation around you losing to Baylor after you said that you were not even going to play Baylor because they were too bad they are too bad I shouldn't have lost that game I ate four donuts I've already had the press conference we don't need to go back through this one other thing about the Steve Kerr practice I don't know if you notice this but the reason that Jordan actually felt bad and reached out to Steve Kerr is because Steve Kerr was the littlest guy on the court and he hit that guy that's why he reached out to apologize

absolutely so the only other thing I wrote down which is crazy in retrospect MJ coming back his first game back against the Pacers was on a Sunday and it was actually the sweet 16 round or no might have been the first round of the NCAA tournament he MJ did three times the NCAA tournament think about that the NBA game in the middle of March did three times NCAA tournament so much so CBS had to do a make good for advertisers because they got so fucking roasted in viewership because MJ came back during March Madness that is crazy I did not know that so crazy what we're going to make good did they do they had to like give them more you know they did like we'll throw in more ads later on like he they trounced trounced them so bad I think

it was uh they had to tell the refs give MJ all the calls so it's a sweep so that the NCAA tournament gets more ratings next weekend yes well this was the regular season this is MJ coming back in the regular season it coincides with the Sunday of March Madness and that event was so much bigger than March Madness which is crazy just to think about like anyone watching NBA in the middle of March over the tournament and the I'm back facts that he's sent to come back is it's an all-time or there's only one person that could do that I mean you saw the headlines when he retired the first place and they were just calling him air like that was his name it was just like air walks away from the game and he comes back just by saying I'm back I think there's only

one person in the history of sports that could pull that off and that would probably be MJ like Andrew Luck would write a 500 page book on on like architecture and bury in the footnotes if he was coming back like that that's it that's putting your nuts on the table and saying I'm I'm so big that everyone knows what I mean how many retreats would that get if that was how he came back the architecture book the Andrew Luck Hungarian architecture you know what I'm asking the if MJ tweeted I'm back instead of a press release if it was today and it was given all the circumstances and everything was the same everything was equal and he had the same cultural relevancy and everything was equal we just had Twitter what's crazy is it would probably get five million retweets but it

would also probably get six million replies it would it would be the all-time biggest number of replies so it would technically be a ratio mm-hmm Norman Chadd oh let's talk about that okay so yeah I think that's everything we had for this episode seven eight but we have a shitload more coming with Tim Grover in a minute so we had a great interview with Tim Grover MJ's trainer we talk about him playing baseball we talk about him coming back his competitive desire great stories and also the flu game so that's all coming up before we do who's back and we will talk I'm going to throw that in there as well so before we do who's back a word from a new sponsor jack pocket right now without sports there aren't many ways to win money that's where jack pocket

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auction to watch a Monday night football game with Roger Godell in his living room i don't i cannot understand how the NFL like let it get to this point but they did and i am very curious to see how it's going to play out from here so this goes back to me saying that Godell doesn't have any friends because he doesn't um i think that it would be it'd be hilarious if Roger Godell wanted to look like a normal person he should wear a clown shirt with Dave's face on it because Dave is going to wear the clown shirt with Godell's face on it and they sit down and wouldn't it be fucking wild if they became like great friends i just can't see it getting to that point i can't okay so yeah do you think this is actually going to happen no i can't no i think they're gonna figure out a

technicality right but what is that how like that's where it's like the NFL if they had gotten out of it before the bidding ended then it kind of probably would have like washed over but the fact that he won like the contest is over it was open for like two weeks it's not like he snuck in at the last minute like he was outwardly bidding on it like two weeks ago the contest ended and he won like he paid the money between a rock and a hard place that's like a shitload of money yeah because if Godell tries to get out of it at all what it becomes is he's taking money away from charity if he gives the second highest bidder he's taking money out i don't even know what charity it's going to probably like the Roger Godell kids club for kids that will promote Roger Godell but whatever it is

it's take it's actually hurting someone that needs help so i don't know what he's gonna do like does he technically have a restraining order against Dave i don't think so but yeah he's kind of stuck although here is what he could do is he could just be like all right i'm gonna do it but the but the terms of service show that you cannot bring any cameras you can't document it like we'll take a picture but you can't record me and that would be the ultimate if Dave just had to sit with Godell with no content being made that's actually the ultimate own back on Dave be like you just have to sit with this miserable person for an entire night and listen to him talk and sit in his weird sweaters and comfy chair and you can't make content out of it that would kill Dave that would be

amazing i don't think Godell has the balls to do that though oh i i think his goons do Roger Godell's goons will absolutely play that card on him and they'll like check them and stuff for cameras but i mean Dave will never agree to that if anything Dave will say that he agrees to it and then wear some sort of like hidden camera or some secret way of documenting there's no chance that Dave just like signs up to go have bro time in the man cave with our dog so i think i think that there's gonna be it's gonna be a real uh meeting of the minds here to see who can outsmart who going into this it's gonna i mean it's worth it from Dave's perspective like the amount of content he's gonna ring out of this it's a huge win i don't care how much money he paid for it he's gonna get

massive returns on it mm-hmm yes big time uh hey you got another one i got a couple other ones i'll give you one do you want both of them or do you want just one do whatever you want um i love king one of my other who's back six nine he got out of jail tukashi six nine you guys remember him he was in jail for snitching he got out of jail the previous record all time for instagram live viewers was like drake and tori lanes had like 300 000 six nine got out of jail went on instagram live and had two million people watching him like immediately so he smashed the record put out a new song and he's just like out living life uh as a snitch yeah tukashi snicks nine he's out he's he's back in the limelight i listen to a podcast about him uh that like documented his whole life

inner like starting when he was just getting into the rap game and then ending when he went to prison and this dude is so good at self promotion he's so good at it but the only downside to it is he's addicted to going live he goes live like way too he goes live when he's about to commit crimes and as somebody who's on the run from people that are looking for him i think that's going to be his downfall it's going to be like an earl thomas and his wife situation if you want to get six nine all you have to do is just like go on snapchat and his little his little avatar is going to be popped up wherever he is 300 000 verse two million is insane though like that's actually crazy yeah that is crazy he's just a great troll right like that's that's as far as i understand

is he's one of the greatest trolls we've ever had basically he's just trolling people right yeah i mean more or less like sometimes i'd like yeah he's he's trolling him to kill him right think you won't kill me he's like you mad he gets shot the guy comes up to him and like takes his wallet off him he's like you mad yeah he won't kill me prove it i'm actually laughing my third who's back of the week is jamie fox so there's been like a few viral videos that came out this weekend that i watch and like kind of refresh people's memory on how funny jamie fox was i guess there's a mike tyson biopic which is coming out with starring him and he was on i forget what's espion show but he was on a espion show like and he described the first scene in detail

and it was the best like trailer that you could ever have ever like it was the most descriptive eloquently spoken like way to talk about the movie that you could ever have i mean i'm in for some of jamie fox's best roles have been when he's like way way way deep in character as somebody like uh ray charles or um the boxing promoter the trainer for um was it ali yes yes he did the ali movie right yeah yeah yeah yeah he's uh yeah and he had that clip go viral where it's like oh yeah he's awesome at all these impressions yeah yeah he went and he met with mohammed ali and did the impression of his old manager or trainer whoever the character was and ali was like holy shit this is this is him so yeah i'm in for that big time all right pifty what do you got my who's

back of the week is uh tuning into weird periscope feeds during pay-per-view events because i was too lazy to actually purchase the event and to my credit espn plus made it very difficult to buy ufc this weekend so um sports is back that's actually number one live sports is back dan white put on the event it was a pretty good card some good fights on there but uh i was trying to buy the by the fight on the app and he just wouldn't let me so i was like fuck it i'm gonna go periscope slumming again and i joined all these different feeds and they were filled with people that were like taking the feeds hostage turning the camera back on themselves and saying i'm not going to show the fight again until i get like a thousand subscribers to my tiktok and then once

he did he would put the camera back on the fight those are so pure i love those so much that's i mean that's a smart yeah this is a smart way to promote i mean that's he probably gained a lot of tiktok followers that he's now going to make magic with yep um they were good fights they were good fights it was good to have that back although it's so it is very weird just watching like the entrances in an empty arena and hearing the you know every single word that's said because it's so quiet it's it's a bizarre bizarre feeling i didn't think that the uh the strikes weren't as loud as i was anticipating like i was thinking that they were going to be yours right maybe maybe it's because i was watching on a periscope through like some guy's motor roller razor of his tv

across the run but it didn't seem like they were as loud as i was expecting like normally in an mma fight i guess it's because they have the mics right there in the octagon you can already hear them pretty loudly yes um all right my who's back i have two uh the first is norman chad because he wrote actually it's the ratio i'm not going to give him fucking i'm not going to tip my cap to him the ratio because he had norman chad did have an article that he wrote that said the pandemic has reminded us we don't need more sports in our lives we need less this guy sucks huh norm chad yep he sucks i don't even know what what's his what i didn't read it i just got mad at the headline and moved on i think that that's a lot more of a mature thing to do than to actually read what his

point is and try to understand what he's trying to say oh i don't want to read it oh you did what was he trying to say so somehow the article was worse than the headline if you can believe that like norm chad if you don't know anything about him he's a guy that announces poker sometimes like the world series of poker on espn he is he's somebody that rick riley would ratio that's how bad of a writer he is he writes nothing but like ex-wife jokes his article had like six different asides to it where he went off on these weird tangents the thesis of it if you can call it one was sometimes you have dinner with your family members when there isn't as much sports on tv okay that's it that's cool dude fuck him man fuck that um and then my other who's back

is uh duke duke basswaltz back zion williamson's former marketing agent has served request for admission in their lawsuit asking him to admit that he received money benefits favors of other things of value to attend duke university cloud chaser oh really yeah i don't get why adidas was mentioned it's not even an adidas school well they're saying if the money was contingent on him going to either a nike or adidas school so i guess leaving out all those so she basically just made up the most general accusation you could have and is going oh see are you denying it are you putting your life on it yeah i've heard the term uh innocent until proven guilty duke's never cheated she's cloud chasing yeah interesting interesting um i happened to believe all women hank

that has nothing to do with uh you know nothing to do with that it sounds like him height sounds like you got yourself a little bit of a pickle here were you i mean it's funny because the first time hank recorded this before he demanded we go back and redo it he was like i just don't trust females what the fuck what by the way a quick aside hank um is tell me what happened in your house when stew finder decided to send a picture to all of us as a joke text message on i think saturday morning or friday morning it was crazy because i think i i asked like my phone was charging i was like ria can you grab my phone and like bring it over here and she did and i was like going through and then the first message i opened up was like a naked picture so she was standing right there

and she's like what is that and i was just like oh it's stew finder she's just like what what the fuck like what does he text you and then she just scrolled up it was just like uh i was like i don't know it's stew finder like what do you want me to say it's just so funny that stew finder is like gonna get everyone in trouble because he sends he basically sends he does the forward all email but on text message at 8 30 in the morning the dad just yeah 8 30 in the morning you get a text message like okay yeah i mean yeah it was like it was like a naked picture that you had to zoom in on a certain part to like read the message one of those like classic gags uh the classic stew stew stew is a great excuse if you ever need a reason why you're looking at a naked picture on your phone

just label every single contact in your phone is stew finder so if you ever get an accidental nude it's like oh it's from stew yeah true okay before we get to mj's trainer tim grover great interview coming up a quick word from our friends at bright sellers this is actually one of my favorite advertisers that we've had come on recently because i think it's a very relatable thing for everyone out there i love wine but i can't pick out wine to save my life i have no idea what i like i have no idea what the differences are and that's where bright sellers comes in bright sellers is the personalized wine subscription company that matches you to the wines based on your taste you take a 30 second quiz and their algorithm matches you to wines you'll like if

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first six bottle box do it can't recommend it enough thank you to brightsellers.com slash pmt okay here he is mj's trainer tim grover okay we now welcome on a very special guest it is tim grover CEO of attack athletics he is uh the trainer for michael jordan was a trainer for michael jordan trained a ton of really really great mba players obviously we've been talking about the last dance it's been taking over the country so we thought it'd be great to have you on talk about mj talk about what your approach is uh and let's start right there let's start with your introduction to michael jordan i've obviously read a bunch about him but you first see him by giving him a he gives you a 30 day trial says you get 30 days to prove your worth at what point in those 30 days

do you think he bought into what you were doing oh the first week you know and the reason it was is i was telling him how his body was going to feel physically and mentally after each workout after each day i say hey this is what's going to feel sore this is what's going to be tight you know pay a little attention to that when you go to practice notice these different things so i was kind of already telling him how he was going to feel before he before he actually felt it and the more i was able to do that the more he had trusted me in knowing what i was doing but obviously as you start to see the results and the results you guys know from working out unfortunately the results don't come from the outside in they go from the inside out so they

take a little while to actually physically show but you can actually start feeling yourself getting in better condition you can feel yourself getting stronger and the one thing we put a lot of emphasis on listen i don't care how explosive an athlete is you know how well they can do what they do he or she if you're constantly getting injured you're not you're not doing yourself any good and not doing anybody else any good so the first thing we always address with any of the clients we deal with is to make sure that their body is in balance to to play whatever particular sport playing at injury free now now before you were introduced to mj was he training at all besides playing basketball you know what he obviously the bulls have somebody

they had a full-time strength and conditioning coach and for whatever reason i don't know if michael didn't buy into the program or he just didn't feel it was for him but i know what he uh so when i got to him his obviously his athletic ability was off off the charts his strength level wasn't as good as where i'd like it to be so you could tell that there wasn't really a consistent workout program behind it and it was maybe because i know what he wanted he wanted somebody that was dedicated to him and his body not somebody that was putting a program for a whole team he wanted to have the flexibility of of being able to work out on his schedule and a program designed for his abilities the way he played the way he flew the way he did everything i've always wondered

when it comes to something that requires a lot of fine motor coordination like shooting a basketball it's all about the rhythm it's all about getting you know a routine that you're comfortable with doing the same thing every single time when you add in weight training to that when you're making you know somebody's triceps or shoulder or forearm a lot stronger how do you make sure that the shot doesn't get affected along the way well here that's a great point well the shot is going to get affected so that's the one thing and i i've always told him that that was probably one of his hesitations i'm not starting you know a conditioning weight training program because like man i'm sure what is this going to do to my what is this going to do to my touch because shooting the basketball

is a fine motor movement and i told him this was going to happen so what we did was after he would work out there were certain drills that i would have if we were if we worked out and we had access to a basketball court there were certain things that he would do afterwards if if we didn't there were certain things i would have him do in the house with the bat with the basketball just so he could kind of still get those fine motor movements into place and i told him i just said listen you have to stay with this because what's going to happen is your body's going to adjust now if you if you don't give it enough time for your body to adjust your strength level is going to get up to a certain point all right and then it's going to drop again then you have to make a readjustment

in your shot so let's consistently do this and yes your shot is going to be off but it's only going to be off for a short period of time it'll be off for less than a week so i think i know the answer to the next question i'm going to ask but i'm going to ask it anyway you had a part in the documentary where you say you know when i would tell michael to do eight reps he would do 12 was there ever a time ever a day where mj didn't give 100 in the workout where he's like i'm not feeling it today yeah i mean well you know listen you have your best workouts when you're not feeling it um you know it's just like the what the so-called flu game you know when a when an athlete is sick they always end up performing at a higher level because you know mentally they're more they're

more focused you know he's a you people might not believe this but he's actually he is a human being yeah even though he might not play it so you know we all have those days but they were far and few in between far and few in between i mean he'd come up you know our workouts were anywhere from five anytime to five a.m six a.m or seven a.m majority of the time by the time i got to the house he was already ready he was already to go but there were a few times when i walked in the house and you know rang the bell sit down for him in the weight room he'd look at me he says not this mf again yeah well we got to do it you know yeah but it was not like it was never like he was just like i don't feel like i don't feel like doing this today right you know there were days that i didn't need

to push him a little bit more but those were far and few in between how do you manage somebody like michael who is ultra competitive probably has a big ego for you know well justified big ego because he is such a great player how do you go in and say this is what you need to correct without you know without pushing him away because he's like fuck this guy coming in tell me what to do well you know what that's the one thing i've always learned it's funny and look at you look at any business look how successful you guys are the more successful an individual is that actually the more they're open to feedback criticism coaching and so forth because they want to get better they want to get better but they can decipher between somebody that's bullshitting them and

somebody that's actually telling them telling them the truth so you know with him it was like gaining gaining his trust but also understanding giving him what he wanted so the plan was designed around him oh i didn't come in and say hey this is what i need you to do this is how it's going to be done michael what what are your weak areas what do you want to improve what are the what what do you want to get stronger in do you want to jump higher do you want to move that really quicker where the where the areas on your body that constantly get injured and let me develop the program around that so feedback is always important you can't come in with these guys and you know pretend like you are the show i'm not the show i'm a person that is to help him and let

him excel at a higher level the better he plays the better i look the worse he performs the worst i the worst i look and i always knew that who the star was and my job was to make that star shine longer and brighter so you have uh you know you've written books you have a theory about uh the different types of athletes in their mentality you call it closers coolers and uh the last cleaners can you explain to people what the difference is between those three groups and also can you go from one group to another no question you know what it's funny i always like to use if appropriate i always like to use examples of the people i'm doing the show with all right when you guys first started this show it was like what are what are what are these two guys doing what is this going to happen

all right so a cooler is an individual that does the average so you give them a job to do they're going to deliver the minimal result if you tell them to make 10 phone calls in an hour and they make 10 phone calls in 40 minutes they're not going to make phone call 11 12 13 14 you told them to make 10 they're going to make 10 they're going to make 10 phone calls all right a closer is an individual that gets you that end result over and over again as long as very too many variables aren't thrown at them cleaners get that end result over and over again so they figure stuff out no matter what's thrown on what's thrown at them and they get that end result numerous times over and over and over again the part of a cleaner's mentality is to constantly never be satisfied

when something is done they move on to what's next i love it so who's who are the cleaners you've worked with because i'd imagine it's not that big of a group no it's not you know i i've been fortunate enough to work with you know hundreds and hundreds of professional athletes obviously the the two biggest ones that i've had are michael and kobe i would put dwayne or dwayne wade in that category too but i've also had other cleaners indifferent in those same sports that excelled at what that excelled at one thing you know i had tony allen uh was a uh a professional basketball player he had you know one championships with the sell things this guy was a defensive specialist i mean kobe said this was he was a hardest guy to score on so his mentality even

though he didn't have it on the offensive side he had it on the defensive side he was a cleaner from a defensive from a defensive standpoint you know there's different coaches so there are positions there are even practice players that they know they're never going to play but their job is to make everybody else in practice the best that they can be so it's finding your niche and doing it better than anybody else were there ever any times when you're working with the player individually and you can sense that there's some friction between the coach of that team you know maybe not being super happy that one of the star players is working with their own person on the side kind of like you see you know it was reported up in new england with tom brady with his tb12 method

that there was maybe some budding of heads going on inside uh patriot place yeah oh listen anytime anytime an outside individual comes in there's always going to be some friction there's always going to be some tension you know i was able to alleviate some of that not a whole lot with the chicago bulls but with the other teams because i would always get the coaching staff involved i would always get their athletic trainers i would always get their strength and conditioning people involved i was like listen you tell me what you're looking for the end result you want to get out of these out on this athlete and let me be an extension of you so that way we all win in this together you know i'm not the person that's out there trying to be

the star i want to just get the job done because if the athlete is performing at the highest level we all win but yeah is there going to be some friction is there going to be some jealous they're all they're all they're always is but i try to alleviate that as much as possible by getting the by keeping the team notified about what i'm doing and always allowing them to say hey listen i don't have any secrets you want to come in and see what i'm doing come in and see what i'm doing you want me to add an exercise here you want me to change an exercise here i'll be more than happy to incorporate it in there as long as it's beneficial to who we're working with so you were obviously around mj for 15 years plus years i'm sure you have homework yeah i mean you're you're a

famous trainer there's not many famous trainers out there so i pre and you're chicago you're a chicago bulls guy i know it yeah i mean it's been bad for the last since michael but yeah it's been very bad yes yes so so uh you you but you around him for so long i'm sure you have a million stories of you know this whole entire documentary is showing his insane competitive drive what are a couple of the little things that he might have done whether it be to someone else or with himself that that was like that's the killer in mj well you know what it was funny that everybody talked you know obviously he's he's legendary for about his trash talking but it was so many times he did his trash talking to motivate himself it was like it wasn't to get into the other players

had it was to get into his head but i mean there's so many stories i remember we were in when they had a franchise in vancouver you know vancouver grizzlies um they would go i think it was a game and it was a back to back and they were playing we were the bulls were down like maybe 12 14 points would like three minutes to go in the game and derrick martin who was a bench player for van for vancouver said something to michael off the bench and then michael just michael just looked at him and literally scored like the next 17 straight points and and went over and went over to derrick and went over to derrick says you're barely in the league shut the fuck up and the next day was well funny about that story is the grizzlies actually waved and cut derrick the next day

because they were like why did you wake the sleeping dog up just let him let him sleep then there was another game against i think it was uh minnesota and sam michel sam michel was a coach and they had never beaten the bulls and they were up by like seven or nine points with like maybe a minute to go and sam said something to michael he said you know we finally got you and michael looked at sam and said i haven't even started to play yet you know how competitive he was at practice i mean it was just it was crazy i mean i i mentioned this in the book relentless where he had just played a game and he had played like some crazy amount of minutes 44 minutes or something and they had practiced the next day and he's looking around and he's looking for one of the

players on the team scott borrell he's like we're scott and scott uh one of the trainers said you know scott's in the training room and he goes he tells phil hold on so he goes into the training room and scott's laying down on the table he literally takes the training table and flips it over all right scott goes onto the ground and he's literally he's literally in scott's face and saying you know you mf i just played 44 minutes you didn't even play yesterday if i can get my ass out of practice you need to come out there right now and lily carried scott out onto the practice for it and this was not to get you know he wasn't pissed off at scott for being lazy it was more like listen i'm gonna need you at some point i'm gonna need you at least one game to win this

championship down the line right so if you're taking shortcuts now you're gonna end up taking shortcuts later so the way he held everyone accountable those stories are legendary yeah so that type of mentality i can see how that would produce results and how you're elevating the play of people around you to a certain extent but also i noticed you know during this scottie pippin migraine game michael jordan has such like a tough mentality that i don't know if a guy like him has empathy in his head and can understand like hey maybe this guy is actually really hurt maybe he's dealing with something that you just can't will yourself through had did you ever have to like soften michael up and be like hey michael maybe take it easy here push and put no one to

push no one to pull on certain guys that i let him do you know what he did notice is if players weren't physically performing at the highest level he would kind of he would kind of have me talk to them and say hey listen you know like ron harper ron harper on what he played with cleven cavaliers was an exceptional player and then he had acl surgery and he didn't quite recover they didn't do his rehab correctly so when he got to the bulls ron wasn't moving the way he should have been moving so he asked me to kind of work with ron and get get get him go get him going back but yeah you know what it's funny when you have that mentality when you have that mentality you're able to push yourself through so many things you just expect others to do that so you're like if i'm going to

be the hardest working player in practice all right if i'm going to be the hardest working player in the game i'm not expecting you to perform at the same level i'm performing at but i need you to perform at the highest level possible so he had this mentality like if i put on my jersey if i put on my practice jersey or i put on my game jersey don't ask me about my health i'm one hundred percent you know like when you guys show up at the studio and you do what you're supposed to do all right everybody they're expecting a hundred percent they're expecting to show that everybody listens to you know all the millions of subscribers you have on there they don't they don't give a shit how you're feeling yeah they don't care you they don't care

how much you drank last night what you did all that other stuff you're like listen you took our time we need you to perform we need you to perform at the highest level and i can guarantee it there's not you can't tell me every single day you come into the studio you're like you're on your you're on your a game a lot of times you just bring a game but you have to change that a game into your a game right big guy got bit by a dog one time and he came in and we're like you know what we got to step this up we got it sometimes you got to lift your teammates up yeah you can't tell me that you're not as competitive in what you do as michael is you guys just don't want to win the ratings you want to beat whoever the hell is number two number three number four number 50 there's a big difference

between just winning and beating somebody you guys want to beat the competition but in order to do that your mentality has to be different than everybody else i love this part of the podcast where you're complimenting us it feels very nice well you guys earned it i appreciate that i'm not here to stroke you guy you if you did i wouldn't be saying this shit i'd be like man who are these fucking bums i'm listening to all right you guys are you guys earned what you what what you went through and it wasn't easy i appreciate that i appreciate that knowing that um mj would react to people uh doubting him or saying trash talking to him would you ever make stuff up and tell him like hey like i heard through the grapevine that this guy thinks he's as good as you

never never needed never needed because you know what back then all the media and everything was focused on focused on him so he would never he would never listen to those things but he knew what people were saying you know obviously in the last episode that they just that they just did you know people were you know comparing him to Clyde Drexler and he just came out he said you know i took offense to that he's not he's not in the same league and he just went out he went out and showed it he will never show it and it's he would never show it in his face but he knew who was he knew his competition was you know he knew that that other players like Patrick Ewing Carl Malone Charles Charles Barkley Reggie Reggie Miller you know John Sark's all these

individuals that were out there that were that were going after that were going after his after his crown yeah and he was like they can you can speak all you want listen for the one thing we all know the one thing that's never gone up in price and is never going to go up in price is talk talk is always cheap it's going to be cheap all right you don't pay for talk you pay for the end result the information it's fun you guys give individuals information i gave Michael information i give my clients information what you do with that information is what is the price that you have to pay so when i didn't have to give Michael the information of trash talking and so forth he held himself accountable to himself more than anybody else ever would and that's

also a big distinction between a closer and a cleaner all right a cleaner holds himself more accountable than anybody else will ever hold him or her accountable a closer will be like as somebody else needs to hold me a little bit accountable all right he held himself more accountable to his training the end result that he was giving everything can you look at somebody an athlete in particular and say this guy is not a winner bad body language it was funny i've actually turned away more business than i actually take in you know everybody tells you the right thing it's just like in basketball in football in baseball whatever sport in basketball everybody wants to sit in that first seat everybody wants to take that last shot everybody

wants to be that closing pitcher all right everybody wants to be that quarterback or receiver or that running back you know that gets the ball at the end until you actually get the ball right yeah yeah everybody wants to sit in those two seats until they have to sit in those two seats pressure is a privilege but most people run from that privilege i like that i like that a lot so we're gonna run this on monday and we haven't seen we didn't get the we're not big enough jay journalists to get the uh you know the pre-tape so but we're assuming seven and eight are going to be a lot about uh michael's transition to baseball coming back from baseball at what point when he makes that decision because it was pretty much right before the season what point did you know

that he was like he's gonna walk away like he doesn't have the same feeling right now about this upcoming season that he's had in the past you know what it was funny at right after they won that they won that championship they won that third championship you could he never said anything but you could just feel that the joy wasn't there like you know you went through so much to win that to win that championship it was more of a relief than it was a joyous occasion you know and the one thing i've always said about these great athletes is they celebrate hard but they don't celebrate long it was more of a relief that they that they wanted and i knew something wasn't right and he would usually tell me hey this is a time we're going to start working

out again and there was no communication there so i did not know what he was going to do or when he was going to do it but you know obviously he did what he what he did and i am privy to see what the what the next i got a little preview of what seven's going to be about unfortunately i can't share it with you guys but um it's going to take a lot about a lot about the baseball stuff it's just like you know you got everyone gets to a certain point that you don't love a hundred percent of your job listen i guarantee there's not a single a single individual i love what nobody says you gotta love everything you gotta love everything about what you do there's not a single person in this world that loves 100 percent of everything they do all right there's some things that just

fucking suck all right it just it just sounds good to be to be that way now when you have those sucking things more than the enjoyment things then it's time then it's time to start looking looking somewhere else i mean you see most successful individuals in a place you just said i'm not gonna do this anymore and you're like why they're not doing this they got all these fans they got all this money they got all this stuff it's just you know what a cleaner knows when it's time to walk away i i love that like thought too because we do we have a dream job and i love my job but there's of course there's things that suck and it's weird because people don't understand like of course there's things that suck i the love far outweighs the suck

but it's crazy to be like oh yeah i love working all the time no matter what yeah and you know what that just sounds good that this may you know it's just like i love these people that come out said oh i only sleep three hours a day you know that's it it lasts bullshit your body cannot function at an optimum level on three hours a sleep a sleep a day you may sleep one or two days out of the week where you only sleep three three three hours but you know those stories sound but oh man every single day i work 18 hours you got to continue to grind and all this other stuff i'm tired of all that cliche bullshit because it just makes it's just a way to sell stuff that's all it is so when jordan goes out he starts playing baseball he struggles a little bit did you hit him up where

you're like hey i think i can help you with your swing i don't do anything with the mechanics part but i was the individual that did continue to do the training part with him in the baseball and there's a lot of that there's a whole big segue that's going to go in there the big thing i had told him was listen the muscles used in basketball are the complete opposite that are used in baseball all right so i give you an example michael played my you know michael played uh he was right he was the right fielder if i remember if i remember correctly so when you shoot a basketball okay the idea is to put a certain amount of arc on the ball so you can use the host the conference of the rip all right so you have to train your back muscles your shoulder muscles

your arm muscles your wrist muscles in a different in a different way when you play when you throw a baseball from right field center field left field in you have to have as little arc on it as possible because it has to get from point a to point b so the training to throw a baseball is completely different than the training to shoot a basketball interesting so one thing that we talk about on the show a lot is the clutch gene we're obsessed with synthesizing and discovering the clutch gene some athletes are very very good under pressure others are notoriously very bad under pressure to you is there a way that you can build the clutch gene in somebody that might not have it yes i'm a firm believer the the clutch gene is something that's in all of us but majority of

the individuals are afraid to wake it up they're afraid to use it you know because the pressure and the work ethic and the dedication that you have to do to wake that clutch gene up and have it performed at the highest level over and over and over again most people don't have the mental discipline to do that over and over again and to be in the zone and be able to have that clutch gene thinking is actually a distraction but here's a caveat to that it takes years and years and years of thinking not to be able to think so it sounds like it's a lot of hard work that goes into like it's actually not just having a clutch gene right the clutch gene is really just being supremely confident in all the work that you've put in ahead of time exactly you don't make that game

winning shot you don't make that game winning shot in the game you've made it a hundred times in practice you made it other times before you know you guys don't have this this show of yours and the success that it happens all right it's happened through all the times and effort and stuff you put in before to get to this point now to show that one percent gain is the difference between being great and being unstoppable that's where you guys need to go next you guys are great now you need to get to unstoppable isn't there a shortcut though i can't you put on a copper fit bracelet or wear one of those fighting necklaces and then all of a sudden you're you can't be knocked off balance you've seen the infomercials oh my goodness it's unbelievable you know a couple of

times when i've seen you know you see those things in the mall and because of my exercise physiology background you know every now and then i'll say i'll say hey watch this and the guy'll come up to me or the girl and come up to me and the out there they'll start explaining it and start doing the thing and i'll just totally blow them out of the water you know they'll be like oh oh shit this guy actually knows what he's talking about wrong guy yeah yeah the wrong guy you know it's like people that come up the the few people that don't know you when you guys when you guys at a restaurant or a bar they start trying to talk to you about something you'd be like and you just let them talk because they eventually at some point you just want to call them out on their bullshit yeah what about

a brain massager big cat bought a brain massager yeah have you ever heard of that working is that the little thing that goes yeah just massage your whole scope and activate your brain okay yeah that's good well and listen every time you guys step on the hey this is what i always say about those things all right if they if you believe they work use yeah you see a bunch yeah you see a bunch of baseball players you see tons of baseball players they wear the necklaces they wear the things you know around their wrists and so forth so what what's my what's my explanation to them if you believe it works it works so i i had another question about the baseball because i think it is going to be obviously part of a big part of sunday night's documentary we're going to

run this monday like i said when michael decides to come back what was he uh because you know he only comes back for 17 games the regular season he clearly wasn't the same guy wearing 45 until he famously switches to 23 which is an all-time moment but what percentage of like peak michael jordan do you think he was when he's back after that year and a half layoff oh but when he came back for that shortened season 70 75 best yeah and it was a crazy thing you know even at 70 75 percent he's probably better than 90 percent of the players but he wasn't he wasn't michael he wasn't michael jordan right and it would you say that's because of the muscle memory i mean obviously we all know that like basketball is one of those things where the shot

and the touch around the rim matters so much in timing but in terms of like the muscle mass his body composition was that a big hindrance when he came back for that shortened season it definitely was a hindrance no question about it no no no question about it and i've i've told him that i've told that story i've told that story before too there just wasn't enough time to make that transition you know not only from the body type but also the skill set it's not like it's not like going to play in a pickup game you're literally coming back to play with the best players and against the best players in the world so i don't care how good you are when you take a year and a half off there is going to be a little slide a little rust that needs to that

needs to be worked off the interesting part about that story is when they lost to orlando so we were uh everybody was gone and uh i was sitting it was three of us sitting in the arena it was myself mj and and one of his security guys and we just he just sat there he just didn't want to leave and we were getting ready to leave and i said i said mj i just said you know i'll see you he goes no i'll see you tomorrow so we literally started that next day mm-hmm yeah and then and then one of the biggest blessings was that he had to shoot that movie space jam right in the dome yes you know so he was actually in one place for a very very long time and we were able to build a dome for him and re and get all the players to come compete against him at the highest level

so it's funny how those things all fell in all fell into place and came and he came back you know not just as good if not better than than the previous years did playing 36 or 54 holes of golf before a game conflict with any of your trading methods yeah yeah you know what that's a that's that's a great that's a great question all right so very rarely did he do 36 there were times that quite a few times that he did 18 and that was actually a part of his allowing his mind to relax it was his reset but he never took it to the point where it would be a hindrance to his performance it actually it it actually enhanced his performance and i have charts of all this you know before we had uh before we had all this stuff you know these analytics and so forth i would actually chart

how he played the days he got the days he golfed before a game the days he golfed after a game practices and so forth and see how he was before and how he would perform at the game and if there wasn't adverse effect i'd be the first one to i would be the first one to point out you you you i'm gonna i'm gonna uh prop you up for a second for people who don't know tim grover was mj's fit pit he would literally watch how many steps he took in a basketball game and chart that so when he says he chart he would watch and rewind and and count the actual steps which is mind-blowing given today's technology that that was what you had to do yeah well back there you know what uh for uh you know most of your viewers are going to be too young to remember what a beta max or vhs tape is but

that's what we had to do you know you'd get the tape and since i was at the games you'd have to set the tape at the slowest speed so you can make sure you get all six hours of it and then after i'd come after the game i would literally come home and i'd have to sit and i would literally watch the game because that's how i determined what the workout was going to be the next day over the next week or what was going on because i needed to know how much activity he had going in one direction how many activity he had explosive wise how much activity he had stopping jumping landing doing all doing all that doing all that stuff and you know and one of the things that you guys had mentioned earlier is you know there's this big thing about you know in order to in order to be successful

you have to create balance you have to find somebody who's the opposite of you you know just the opposite of you you know that yin and the yang i don't believe in that all right in order to be successful the person that should be involved in your success has to be just as fucked up as you are okay i like that yeah um yeah you were talking about you know charting his his uh days that he would spend golfing and then you know correlating that to whether or not he had a better game or a worse game did you notice any pattern if he shot really well in the golf course that he would end up playing well that night or maybe the opposite it was funny he actually the worst golf he played the better basketball he played i was gonna say i wouldn't be surprised about that because it like

it gave him more motivation you know he's like out to prove himself wrong and you know usually when he was out there it would uh he wasn't playing golf by himself he was probably playing he was probably competing against somebody and he was pissed off that he lost to him so he so whoever whoever beat him he had to take it out on somebody he had to take it out on somebody else and whoever that was on the opponent's team on the opposite team that they got the grunt of it yeah yeah um all right i have a couple last questions uh one is the famous jared jeffrey maybe not famous but jared jeffrey's story about the time that uh mj flexed on antwan walker at your gym with the ferraris and lambos is that true can you tell us what exactly happened

yeah so antwan was a big car collector he had a bunch of cars that he you know and he'd like to come in and show show show them off all the time so what happened was you know michael obviously he would get cars that weren't even up for sale yet all right so he just basically one day he had he had a gentleman that took care of all his cars and everything so he just had uh that guy and a bunch of people he said hey i want you to just drive this this and this car down and all of a sudden they were just all it was funny they were just they just surrounded antwan antwan's car and just to say yeah antwan that's nice but this is this is where i got and then they would look at it was like that's not even coming out for another year yeah exactly exactly you know so by the time the cars

that they would get the cars that all the other players were showing off those were like used cars for michael because he had already he had already gotten those got those vehicles because you know the companies wanted to see you know they wanted to have michael as an other as a non-paid endorser in their vehicles right and all because antwan walker showed up with a nice car to your gym and he was there was a lot of there was a lot of there was also a lot of shit talking going on in the gym too about it and just there was just just just his way of staying hey listen this is my world i'm letting you guys live in it and enjoy it for a little while yeah yeah i've always wondered about you know you always hear the stories going into the world cup

usually is when it pops up but you hear about maybe a brazilian soccer coach that takes his players away from their wives and girlfriends for a month leading up to the tournament because if you have sex you're a worse player it takes like that that edge off or whatever in your experience is there any correlation with that well you know what i've charted a lot of things i was the one thing i wasn't able to i wasn't able to chart all right but um i've known no correlation between it what what one way or the other i have not seen it but i have no perfect you know that's a question i know that it's still prevalent in mma and boxing and so forth but there's no way for me just from a scientific stance point and from my from my research i'm like not everybody performs at the highest level

when they're wound up sometimes you need they other people perform better when they're unwound and if that's your release then so be it you have to figure out what works for you if not having if if you perform at a higher level you know when you don't have sex then don't have sex before if you perform at a higher level when you do then do it those are things that me as a trainer cannot determine for you and i cannot count those reps for those individuals how many strokes you take um all right my last question you were there and i'm sure this will come up in in the documentary because it's probably one of the most famous mj moments the flu game you are convinced it was food poisoning can you tell us what you saw 100 percent it was food poisoning 100 100 percent

you know but obviously it just sounds better to be the flu game than the food poisoning game that doesn't even that doesn't even you it doesn't even roll off your tongue correctly so we were we were in you we were in utah and back then uh the team decided to stay in park city park city was not what park city is now all right so literally everything closed down at like 8 30 there was no there was no uh room service in the hotel and michael said hey he's hungry and i'm like all right listen everything is everything is closed and then i was finally able to find hey michael i found a pizza joint that's open so i said order me order the pizza so i ordered a pizza the door rang and by then everybody knew what room michael's was in because yeah and we had already been there for

we had already been there for a while and i opened up the door and there's literally five guys standing out there to deliver a pizza all right so i take the pizza obviously they wanted to get a glimpse of michael and you know i handed the pizza i paid the guys and i closed the door and i just said man i got a bad feeling about this and i got a bad feeling about this so i he goes hey is this a pizza i said yeah here's a pizza i feel michael i said i got a bad feeling about this he was like oh man fuck you okay so nobody there was there was about four of us in the room nobody ate the pizza but him nobody and there was no signs of flu anything being sick before that and then about three o'clock in the morning we get it i get a call to my room and

just say hey man come to mj's room and he's literally curled up in a fetal position just like i'm like oh man what happened so we went and got the team physician at that time and just nobody could figure out what was going on i was like and he had only eaten like a you know a couple of slices so you don't go from being i've not known any flu that can hit you that fast but i know how quickly food poisoning can hit you yeah yeah you should have a taster again you know his mental toughness and his mindset was just like hey just get me well enough so i can get i can get to the floor and he goes once i get on to the court and he had told phil once i'm in the game and i had i had mentioned to him too i said michael once the worst thing you can do is go in and out once you're in

the game you got to stay you got to play as long as you as long as you freaking can because once you sit down that's it yeah that's it yeah uh did you guys adapt from that point moving forward was there always somebody that would like taste michael's food before he tasted like like a king only in utah and only in utah but you don't listen that's that's my story that's what i observed you know i was in the room and all this that when this was going on so if anybody has if anybody had a better look than i did i'd like to i'd like to see who that person was because they they definitely weren't there yeah well tim this has been awesome we really really appreciate it i'm jacked up i might even do some bench press after this just just pumped up from talking to you

so that's awesome hey listen with your guy with your guy's permission you know i would love to offer something free to all your all your listeners no charge no anything like that i'm not trying to sell anything but you know you guys talked about the book relentless in the book you know we talk about the coolers closers and cleaners and you know we have the traits of the most competitive individuals the relentless 13 which you guys should read because when you when you see those you'll be like yeah that's me that's me that's me if you go to tim grover dot com slash free you you'll get the traits of the cleaners and you'll get a you'll get a like a test to find out if you're a cooler closer or cleaner i love it i like it i love it tim grover dot com slash free i

love it tim tim grover dot com slash free you guys are so gracious to me i want to do something for audience i never go anywhere and not be thankful for the opportunity i truly appreciate it i'm truly grateful for absolutely i'm ready to run through a brick wall right yeah yeah i'm amped up thanks so much tim thank you gentlemen continued success to you that interview with tim grover is brought to you by free fly a couple weeks ago i got a box of clothing from this company called free fly the clothing is made from butter soft bamboo i have to say on first impression putting it on it's probably the softest clothes that i've ever worn in my entire life they're amazing i love wearing them at home i've got these pants that i put on they're actually designed to be outdoor

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moisture and it won't hold odor so from fishing to hitting the gym or lounging around the house this stuff is incredible i love free fly you will too that's a guarantee mark it up put it down the book it's a pft comes your guarantee you will love their clothes and you can get 20 off when you visit free fly apparel dot com slash take that's free fly apparel dot com slash take get 20 off don't say we never do anything for you again that's got the pft guarantee on it free fly apparel dot com slash take you're gonna love it okay uh let's do our mount flushmore and then we have our deep dive with billy football so our mount flushmore we thought uh given the recent news with the washington capitals we do the mount flushmore of bad teammates after that one

capitals after the one capitals you meant former capital players said was making fun of his teammate's wife um and also maybe the mj uh bullying scottie borrell and punching steve kerr but he was first of all because really you get results first of all shout out to the capitals for cutting the guy he was he's really an edmonton oiler and when people say the name live shirts or whatever his name is they think edmonton they don't think washington dc so classy organization through and through got rid of the guy that was saying that his teammate's wife was fat mm-hmm so uh let's do worse teammates for our or sorry the the mount flushmore of teammates uh let's who starts on monday's hank hank no pft no hank hank goes on monday's hank goes on monday's goes by age henry uh my number one

worst teammate i will go with tanya harding good good choice good choice hank i had her on my short list too good yeah i had that would you say no i for tanya i think i might have been alive but i recently watched the itania movie with margo robbie and that really uh really cemented her in my mind is like the worst teammate of all time which crazy is they let her compete in those olympics too yeah it's insane yeah well i mean well at that point she wasn't it wasn't proven guilty so it was like it's it's hard to believe that she was a person that would have do such a thing and then she got into porn she was like honey boo boo without the skete she got in the uh she got into fighting she got into remember she did like celebrity boxing she had a rough upbringing yeah

she was like that yeah she was the person that they'd like get on the phone would be like oh shit dany bonaducci has swine flu we need a last minute replacement for i heart the 90s let's talk to tanya harding she's got nothing else going on yes uh but that's a good first choice hank i like good first choice hank uh my first choice i'm going to go to latte west pretty easy oh wow so mental health is not a issue to you for reasons that we know oh do you know my shortlist i'll put it this way happy mother's day i had him on my i had my on my shortlist but seeing that he has like serious mental issues i'm not going to make light of it like pft just did so i actually respect mental health issues mm-hmm that's why i think i think it's a great choice um okay uh all right

then i will go my first pick i will go with jeff kent jeff kent jeff kent is such a dickhead that milton bradley had to be like he's a dickhead and barry bonds had to be like he's a dickhead so milton bradley and barry bonds both in jeff kent's career barry with the giants jeff or milton bradley with the dodgers had to be like yeah this guy's an asshole even though i am the biggest asshole in the world and just his name like jeff kent that's such an asshole name so jeff kent number one um and barry bonds had four lockers by the way remember that story mm-hmm he had four lockers to separate himself from his four lockers also because he had like a widescreen tv that covered up two of them huge tv and a leather chair and i think that sounds awesome and he was

like yeah jeff kent's a bad uh bad uh teammate that guy said jeff kent's a bad teammate all right my number two i'll go with um i'll stay in baseball i'll go with uh john rocker says some racist stuff to his teammates a lot of uh a lot of explosive headlines not really a nice guy i'm pretty sure he called um randall simon a uh a racial slur like to his face so uh terry pendleton no i'm pretty sure it was randall simon but he might have also said it to terry pendleton let's let's just assume that was probably both of them he might have said it to both um but yeah really bad guy and really bad teammate i think that's probably probably pretty accurate you could ask anyone that played with him john rocker he was the crazy thing was like when you see john rocker

sprints out of the bullpen you're like oh fuck this guy's coming in to close out the game you can usually find a spot like that no matter how big an asshole you are on any team if you're that good at your job but he was so racist that even his like best stuff was not worth it i think he might have i think he might not have fallen out with terry pendleton because i just googled terry pendleton and john rocker and the first result was uh december 2nd 2014 terry pendleton john rocker odis nixon marquise grissom will all be at davin busters at marietta for an autograph signing friday from six to eight p.m that is lit there you go davin busters brings everyone together it's the great unifier that's unbelievable okay go ahead uh all right so my next one i'm gonna go

with i think brett farve was a shitty teammate because uh every off season there would be like will he come back won't he come back uh it took like all the spotlight put it right on him and then he would go ahead and lose a shitload of games for your team he would throw so many terrible terrible interceptions but then if he threw like one great touchdown pass at the end of any one of these games everyone would be like brett farve won us this game after putting us behind by 21 points by closing his eyes and throwing two pick sixes yeah yeah i mean he the only the only counter i'd say to brett farve is he probably would be a fun he seems like the type of quarterback that would drink with everyone like there's quarterbacks who who won't hang out with the rest of the

team brett farve would definitely be like where are we going to play pool tonight after a game oh he'd definitely be you know what the more i think about what a fun guy he probably wasn't hanging out with this was strictly on the field so i feel like this is a bad i'd like to preemptively roast myself for this take because as i was explaining i was finding myself that was great growth you know what he'd be a fun person to go to davin buster's with right great growth by you there yeah i think he definitely god damn it bad pick yeah and he would probably be like yo dude just shoot your shot send that sext like he is the the confident friend that can boost you up be like dude you got this yep and you always like he's not a friend in the locker room like you walk

by him in the locker room you're not intimidated anyway you always need a guy with a smaller dick from you standing next to you in the locker room to make you look good yep okay hey your next two i will go with d angelo russell i feel like the number one rule being a teammate bros before hoes you can't go outing your teammate uh like cheating on his girlfriend while you're still in the team like one of the all time like awkward must have been the most awkward locker room situations of all time uh and then i'll go with recurring guests of the show friend of the program but richie incognito richie's had some run-ins with some teammates i'd say yeah i mean just a prank you could say it's just a prank just just hazing that happened to get out there but uh i would say

if you were on that team you're probably would have an agreement that he was a bad teammate yeah richie's one of those guys where it's like you know the old saying that you you want a guy like that on your team he's like the opposite you want him to practice on another team and then just join your team on game day yes yes uh yeah exactly he when he's on your side it's on game day it's probably you're probably happy but yeah okay good picks hank okay so if i recover no you have you have one and then i have two then you have another one can he recover i'm in my own head from that last pick because it was so bad all right i'm gonna go over on the board gobert arenas okay anytime you get into a situation where you pull a gun on your teammate i feel

like that's frowned upon that was just a prank though yeah well yeah no i i like that pick pft that's a good and he's he was probably filled with a ruger can't fire if if the magazine's out so he was never in danger um okay good pick i'll go so i got my last two i'll go this one's one that i don't think people fully remember but tony parker fucked brimberry's wife when they were teammates i don't remember that yeah yeah so i think he gets bad teammate uh or one of the worst teammates ever because that's like you're it's pretty much confirmed that that happened so um you can't everything else you hear rumors when when these things happen pretty sure this is as close to fact as possible um so that'll be my third pick and then my fourth

pick i will go with bill romanowski roid rage ending his teammate's career by punching him in the face uh spinning on people probably doesn't have the most uh progressive politics let's say bill romanos counterpoint he was awesome in the longest yard yes he was there's like as a prison guard he's a great teammate to have yes he was on the football field maybe not yes okay your last my last one this is an easy one for me i'm going to go with judas i consider judas to be a teammate sold out jesus all about the contract situation really really fucked things up for the rest of the world because he was so solid wanted a couple pieces of silver to jingle around in his pocket next thing you know we're all going to hell thanks a lot yeah but let's in and counterpoint pft if

judas wasn't judas like would the bible really matter like okay maybe it'll happen right where are you saying like was they don't they don't boo nobodies is that what you're saying he's strong as a drink he was the catalyst like he was the match that ignited you know the flame that is christianity so like jesus essentially joined club 27 except he was 33 so like are you saying if we look if jesus had lived at his career to be like 60 70 80 maybe he gets canceled later on in life no one cares about jesus if he doesn't die and come back let's be honest yeah right people start doing the like do we really care about david blaine anymore like dude we've seen you make all like water and a wine a million times it's not impressive you die a martyr or you live long enough to

become a grifter yes uh got it pf or hank your last pick uh my last one i'm surprised this one's so on the board but lebron james can't can't be fun to be his teammate you're always always in fear that he's like if you know if you do well he's going to take all the credit if you do bad he's probably going to trade you off the team uh i just can't imagine that it's fun to be lebron james teammate we left that one for you on purpose yeah we felt that that it would be best served to be on the lockwood team there it's it's um i actually don't totally like kyle kuzma like kyle kuzma like it's probably miserable like you think it's like funny that he came to his team but he's probably miserable okay if we're doing he's on the trading block always if we're doing counterpoints though

and you know lebron is the most passive aggressive like yeah bro i love you bro and then like he trades your ass yes but he also got tristan thompson like a hundred million dollars which that's pretty impressive yeah if you can become lebron side guy that doesn't outshine him yeah if you can become like lebron's personal guy then you're set he has like one or two friends that he has to bring with him everywhere he goes so that not everyone in the locker room hates him if you can get into that role then you're set for life so what do we who do we miss i i had uh i had berry bonds and melton bradley but jeff can't the fact that those two guys disagree with jeff can't kind of trumped it i had carl everett but i wasn't sure if there was like instances of him being a bad

teammate or just him being like a psycho so i didn't dinosaur thing yeah that's that's uh and like kicking like yeah kicking the kicking the other player and stuff but i don't know maybe he's like a good teammate that just fights you know fights for his team yeah uh i had joey slagano i don't know if he's a bad teammate or not to the people that he's on the team i just know he's a dickhead yep fact um steve smith probably deserves to be on there i feel like steve smith like kicking this shit out of a rookie was a rite of passage for every single training camp um michael westbrook michael westbrook letrell spreewell choking your coach never really a move that that has like camaraderie in the locker room i feel like he also he also said that twenty million dollar contract

isn't enough to feed his family yes yes to yo to go on the first fight with one of his teammates yeah to yo should be on there calling uh saying jeff garcy is gay saying donald mcnab is lazy and fat fighting with everyone um oh uh tiki barber underrated one remember how much how mean he was to to elie and then he also commented on michael strahan saying he was overpaid like he was not a good teammate yeah tiki tiki was just not a great not a great dude yeah leave it at that and then the and then i did joe karsten wenz but it is funny because it will trigger people because there seems to be always stories about karsten wenz even though i feel like he hasn't done anything wrong one of my favorite things they're like five people are like he keeps seeing in ogre could pick

in replies so i blocked your i blocked that cat yeah i blocked that guy okay he was so annoying he just kept on replying at first it was funny yeah and then he kept going he has a copy pasted karsten wenz has is it pro or anti anti wenz it's anti wenz being like karsten wenz never want to play off game and he would just reply to every single sports media account and and pace it like if you tweet three times in in five minutes he will reply three times in five minutes i finally blocked him because i was like i can't i would just randomly have karsten wenz debates going off of my mentions like i can't have this yeah it was it was funny the first few times i saw it because it's a long paragraph about his stats in playoff games and like certain like touchdown interception

rates that he has in the fourth quarter of the games but you're right like it ignited a full long course it didn't matter if you were tweeting like if big cat you tweet out a picture of doughnuts in the morning if i if i tweeted out a video of me puking after a peloton it didn't matter what the context was there would be like a six hour long karsten wenz debate that was going on my mentions which don't get me wrong i love just random sports debates that continue on like the joe flacco elite debate is still going on inside my own brain but a man's got to have a line yes you have to you have to know at some point we just don't care and we reached that point a long time ago but yeah there's a karsten wenz thing i feel like he always gets accused of the locker room not loving him i

think that really is not even that karsten wenz is a bad guy i think nick voll is just that kind of look cool of a guy that's what it seems like uh can i can i make a last minute petition to replace my brett farve pick because i'm so ashamed of it absolutely not absolutely not yes but it has to be kobe totally against the rules yeah yeah put kobe on there no no i'm not i'm not gonna agree with that what if i do the shame walk i feel ashamed of that that is put putting kobe on there is the shame walk i won't i won't do that uh block is too hot it's true though like he was wow he's in the conversation it sounds like it sounds like you're picking kobe now hank no i i mean i'm not gonna lie that the thought like crossed my mind but i was like i'm not gonna say it out loud

yeah um it's but there is a there's an element of i mean it's the the thing we watch with the last dance like there's an element of if you win can you be a bad teammate i don't i don't know if you can it's it's you at some point it's like the the juice is worth the squeeze right if you get results it goes back to the old lane johnson you know how he was like i'd rather play for the eagles and win one than than not have fun with the patriots at some point if you get results you get results yeah i would put the way johnson comparison doesn't make no sense there no it does make sense because people i'm saying in defense of the patriots being like a place to play but you can't really call it a miserable place if you win a championship like you can't call someone a bad

teammate if they win championships overall saying like if new england was you know the way that it is right now and just like very tough to play for and the only one one super bowl would that be worth it probably not a lot of veterans would go there trying to win a super bowl because it's such a miserable place but if you can repeat it repeat it it's totally worth it right yes and if you have a guy like michael jordan who like probably belittles you and makes fun of you it's worth it if you win championships every year i had um i also had jeff kin on here i had jared leto would be one in terms of the film industry he seems like a real dickhead to make a film with where like when he was getting into character for the joker he was sending people

like all sorts of fucked up dead animals and stuff and just like trying to get real artistic with a cartoon character get out of here dude yeah that one's good um i'm trying to think who in the film in hollywood i bet you christian bail doesn't seem like an easy guy to get along with no he's not and he's welsh no but that's a result thing that's a result he gets results his movies are fire true good point that's a good counterpoint you're true if you're part of it you're going to get yelled at but okay all right let's kind of like dan daniel day louis would probably be weird as shit to hang out with during a movie but you know that you're getting that oscar nod later right right um okay let's do our billy deep dive before we do that pft you got one more

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get the blackouts for free or buy the blackouts and you get the black timbers for free shady rays dot com use promo code PMT 50 okay we finished up monday's show we got deep dive with our intern slash son billy football he has a very special topic today something that's been in the news something i'm ready to challenge one-on-one to a fight it's murder hornets billy uh before we do murder hornet so how is like what's what's going on the berserker bunker give us a status update on the kittens the raccoons you're trying to catch the muscle you're trying to put on squat rack the squat rack the berserker blood cult just give us a quick rundown of the last like week okay so the kittens just got their shots on saturday they do not have feline aids or

leukemia which is good they've tripled i mean they've doubled in size since the last time i took them to the vet they came in underfed barn kittens whose mother had abandoned them i mean had died and now they are fat fat cats that that was like how did they double in size you need to make sure they don't double in size again or they will be overweight and i was like no they're accumulating mass yeah gains they're getting gains and he was like no these cats are fat and you know i love the idea of billy arguing with a vet they're just getting more lean protein than you're used to like these clearly your vet doesn't go to the bodybuilding.com forums yeah bodybuilding.com is where i learn how to take care of kittens um but then uh i was sitting at my dinner table um

eaten there with my mom one night and out of the corner of my eye i just see this giant look like a baby bear straight up probably like this bit like as big as like a cooler or better than a cooler um big thing of fur and i'm like holy shit what is that i look it's a freaking giant trash panda freaking raccoon giant walking across my porch i'm like holy like like if it was a like i've seen raccoons before but and if it was like a small raccoon like whatever but this thing was the biggest raccoon i've ever seen in my life looked like a small like black bear and i've seen i've seen the trap the trap would not fit the size of raccoon that you saw the the trap is about i would say the the raccoon would get in there and it would get trapped but i couldn't that was the

biggest trap they had at this point at this point i'd have to big like dig a giant pit we'd put spikes at the bottom make like a tiger trap but don't do that i'm not i'm gonna kill the raccoons by the way i just wait at the amount of the porch so so billy um raccoons to me always strike me as like a very cute pest to have though i'd rather have an infestation of raccoons than an infestation of like spiders or opostums you know i'm saying so like what what inconvenience is this raccoon putting on you that you have to get rid of it well one of my um responsibilities is i don't have to do dishes i you know i cook occasionally my responsibility is trash my big job is trash i take out the trash i do with the trash sunday night uh tuesday night and thursday

trash so i'm in charge of the trash i am in charge of the trash bags so when i come down like on a you know a friday morning a monday morning in a row and just see my trash cans absolutely trash everywhere and i have to clean up trash off the barn but that's that's your fault you got to secure your trash better secure i got two bungee cords the this is a jacked up raccoon damn wait billy billy i feel like there's a great solution here why don't you capture the raccoon bring it in and have it lead workouts for your cats like if you really want to get your cat swollen what better workout instructor than just like modeling their life after a jacked up raccoon this raccoon has definitely been eating like my leftover supplements because it is i'm telling you this

thing is a monster like i i couldn't find a pellet gun that could take down this raccoon i'm not going to kill the raccoon it's no you're just going to re-home it i'm going to relocate it somewhere that's not right under my porch but this thing would kill like kill a kitten a cat this thing is giant it's i can't believe how big this thing is when i catch it so i put marshmallow fluff turns out they love marshmallows and like sweet candy because i tried with fish they really work out but it was a big storm that night so uh i think they didn't come out but um yeah when i catch this raccoon it's it's getting shipped out of here it's getting deported okay so i did see you try to wash the marshmallow fluff off your hands that seems like it was a

situation you didn't really think through before you got into it well i was trying to dude fluff it just didn't really work it was it was a mess but we're gonna catch the raccoon it'll all be worth it um i also i just got a squat rack i'm setting up right now that's why i was late to the call i had to go get um certain uh you know uh wedge tools you know that's interesting now billy on on ours we were we were streaming call duty the other day and you said it would be guaranteed done in the next 24 hours this is on friday well i also i just started today wait also very interesting because you just came 10 minutes late to the call and you said sorry i was running an errand for my mom well i went to walmart where i could the quickest you've been ever caught in a lie

well i went to walmart i did a couple of things i got stuff for my mom and i got some tools i needed so okay it's a one-stop shop okay so when when does the 24 hours start billy because i've had my own personal hell experience with a squat rack and i knew i knew how overconfident you sounded i'm just curious when does that 24 hours start 30 i'm gonna 230 right after hop off i'll go finish it right now like no no okay we believe you all right so let's do murder i don't i don't murder hornets billy i want to learn about murder hornets because i think they're frauds and we could fuck absolute absolute okay good murder good it's been on my radar since 2006 since they were in the guiness world of records in 2006 i was re i would you would get guiness world of records every year

on my birthday it was one of my yearly gifts um it was like a consistent one um i loved reading them and murder hornets was on there so i was like okay let's see they're japanese giant hornets two inches long they frequent the mountains of japan and there's some in china and they're widespread um so i read about them so i'm like okay now back when i was that age you know it was before sports were really part of my world because it's just too young i mean i like sports but like i animals were more tangible to me as a young child than sports because there weren't that many leagues and i'd play but it'll just be with my friends we get it billy yeah we were into animals before we start playing sports so we're not gonna take your man card yeah you know what take my man card i i've

put enough on the man take your boy card your your your six at the time yeah billy's apologizing for not playing tackle football as a seven as a seven-year-old okay um so that so uh i did some research on it and i was like i knew about invasive species back then i was a little more i was a little smarter than your average seven-year-old when it came to biology and what not so i was like could this become an invasive species and they're like the reproduction rates of the murder hornets are not that high compared to other hornets because they're so large so you know one of the reasons why you know woolly mammoths when extinct was because their reproduction rates and with elephants is so much slower than other animals so they couldn't keep up with the deaths so

i was like okay this and then there's japanese bees honeybees and how they this is how they deal with the murder hornets now the murder hornets pose a bigger risk to our honeybee populations than they do humans so what the bees do is they all crowd they all land on one hornet the first hornet to get their hive they all land on it you know form a mosh pit on top of it and get so hot that they cook the murder hornet till it dies and the murder hornet can't fly back to its nest until the other murder hordes yo let's go run a fade on some honeybees so they catch the first one kill it and i'm like okay if a bunch of bees can do this the japanese bees then worse comes to worse you know we get some japanese honeybees and start working them into our american honeybee

populations and one of the reasons why the american honeybees have so much issue you know they it's not that issue but why they need so much help to produce honeybees because they're also a non-native species so american honeybees there's no such thing as an american honeybee they're all just european honeybees that were brought over in 1622 right after the mayflower wow kind of like us yeah like us so you know all honeybees are immigrants there's you know the best thing about american honeybees is well now the actually the real bee we need to be scared of is the africanized honeybee which is super aggressive and was actually it was basically what happened was in brazil the european honeybee was having a hard time producing honey because it

couldn't handle you know the various uh the ecosystem in the types of other insects in the amazon which is in brazil so they brought over african honeybees and they were cross breeding them with european honeybees in the lab to make a more hearty tropical bee that could also produce honey to the same standard you still with me yep yeah the we're talking about killer bees here right so the africanized honeybees are like actually killing people because they swarm way more aggressively so think about animals that live in africa that like honey right honey badger the honey badger exactly so honey badger don't give a shit honey badger takes what it wants like he doesn't give a fuck so these bees evolved to fight the honey badger like tyron mathew like it doesn't give a

fuck takes the ball you know what i'm saying so because of that they're a much more aggressive bee so the brazilians brought it over to the lab to mix it's like the sec they play against superior opponents and so therefore their level of competition goes up got it of course so you know the brazilians brought them over cross bred them with european honeybees anyway they got out of the lab and they've been a huge invasive species because they're so much more aggressive they basically we're looking for a little more aggression but got way too much anyway now they're in the uh the the southern u.s so texas florida um arizona new mexico and you know they're coming up through the southern border and they are like actually causing a ruckus you know they're actually

like people there's people getting stung um so wait what does this have to do with the murder hornet well these are the bees you should actually be worried about oh okay so you just did a little okie doke on us we're like hey you guys murder hornets are the hotness but really what we should be worried about is something way worse yeah yeah no the murder hornets aren't gonna do shit i mean like you know american honey producers have been have known about the murder hornets for like at least 2006 and they definitely are making you know preparation like basically the american honeybee being in trouble is basically like a farmer saying oh a wolf is attacking my sheep like they're basically a livestock animal they're not like a wild animal got it so interesting is there

anything like us normal people should like keep in keep in mind if we ever encounter one of these like murderous bees um we should sit on them till they overcook and then they die just start vibrating um just vibe with it just vibe everyone just carry around a Hitachi magic wand Sibian all around your necklace and then yeah and then if if they get to you i actually saw that special billy's talking about where the honeybees vibrate so quickly like little pocket rockets that they heat this bee up the hornet up to like 120 degrees and it just melts from the inside it's pretty badass too but billy i want i want to throw a flag on your fear porn too because as someone that's been around for a little bit longer than you i remember growing up

everyone told us to be afraid of killer bees like oh they've reached the american southwest they're finally here killer bees are going to murder everyone and so we've been told that that's going to happen for like 30 years and never did i'm beginning to suspect that the media likes to write stories and put things on the news that make people a little bit upset well in in my defense i do you should look at the statistics ever since then the bee attack death rates in the us have gone up but talking about the murder hornet death rates in china only 50 people in 2018 or 2017 died in china of murder beastings now that's a lot of people 50 but more people in china die trying to take selfies than the murder hornets good i like that that's a good stat i don't know

what the exact set on the selfies is but it's more than 100 i remember reading it um so you know selfies are more dangerous than the murder hornets to the chinese and think about how many people in china so 50 out of like a billion like that's not that bad no that's that's very small the murder hornets aren't a problem but the afghanized bees on the other hand have been killing more people per capita in the us already billy i do like that though like clout is more deadly overall than honey bees are billy what back to hanks question if we did see a murder hornet what what should we do should we just like keep our microwave open at all times try to catch them and zap them like what's the protocol dude i just care just fuck them up just come up dude just just take your bug

zapper take that's what i'm saying like so just take a shoot so you're saying attack when in doubt attack don't run away yeah up on it with it you curb stop it with a tim like you're gonna kill it like it's not like uh like right just so but but but should we you know how you're not supposed to like if you piss off a bee they'll come and try to attack you like a bumblebee won't do shit but a regular bee will do you leave it alone or do you go at it just leave it alone i mean these hornets are not actually you know they're not as aggressive as other bees they're more aggressive towards honey bees if you were walking around and you weren't okay they wouldn't do anything to you so if if if any of our listeners right now are honey bees be worried otherwise you're good

yes exactly okay um can you do a little disambiguation for us because i've seen conflicting reports saying watch out for the murder hornet sting or more watch out for the murder hornets bite do they bite or do they sting so as hornets they don't lose their stingers when they sting unlike bees so every time they sting you they're not you know committing suicide so the sting does have venom it's the sting is bad i'm not gonna lie the sting is bad if from what i've read it feels like a hot nail being driven into your skin i mean look bad but you know that's their atomic you know that's their atomic option they're not going to use it like a honey bee a honey bee is sees itself as a part of a hive whereas the hornet has more

individuality and isn't his threat and their hives are smaller than a honey bee so they're not recklessly stinging everybody well they're not going to die so they will use it they're just they're a large animal like you know how they say um uh they say like you know daddy long legs have the most poisonous venom but they never bite anybody mm-hmm same type of thing they're just not going to bite you hmm okay all right so so yeah so we're we're set but the afghanized bees are bad okay yeah okay i got it so you just replaced one fear with another well world war b we have Japanese bees we cross breed the Japanese bees with the american bees and we just become a melting pot of bee populations and then the Japanese bees idea of like the vibrating will kill the

murder hornets and then the afghanized bees will mix into the population too and then our bees will be just as aggressive as the afghanized bees and push them back south so it's a excited war there was a politician back in the 90s named bulworth who said that like our solution is just everyone needs to keep fucking each other until we're all the same color and then there's no more racism that's american bees mm-hmm okay all right well billy thank you as always good luck with the squat rack i know hank will be watching um and everyone follow his his his panda trash panda uh capture that's going on really quickly big cat you need to learn how to read a damn defense you know it's bad no he already texted me he already texted me it's bad i just run my office

i run the same plays over and over yeah we'll just just look just look at the way they're run that no they had just open your eyes dude not a cat no let's open your eyes man i want to mainly get on the phone with you and be like that's a cover three attack the scene oh no i i don't act i don't know how to call more than like three plays yeah corner stuff dude just do you think that maybe coach dogs has a problem like he can't delegate he needs to hire an offensive coordinator underneath him no my problem is i have three plays i like to run them over and over and over and eventually they don't work you can run them over and over but you just got to figure out why the place where you know this play works because they're running a cover too and then

you can choose i made a mistake i could have won the game i made a mistake dude you don't tell you don't say you don't text me after i beat florida state did you you throw into a you didn't text me after i beat florida state he was wide open sounds like sounds like you're a fair weather dugs fan i'm not a fair weather dugs fan i just feel like bothering you because you know you're a busy man and you got like you know you need help you need help yeah i mean i suck i don't know what you want to say suck you know it's it's not that you suck but you're not figuring out the reason why the plays are working like oh i like to run this play because they keep running like if they keep lining up in a cover two when you're in a hurry up offense

and you're running the same play over and again that's why if you if you run a hurry up offense you don't get to use your whole playbook yeah but you like using the same play every time so right so why to set your audible is to be one of those i just like running the same place yeah so if it billy how do you diagnose a cover two from the line of scrimmage you just see two safeties drop look at their body language and you it's like it's very easy yeah i'm just gonna keep playing and losing and throwing interceptions a lot more fun that way it's just so infuriated people yeah people get like you who get mad at me and i don't really care i'm sorry but it's just like it's like it's like watching someone like head but a wall yeah i would watch that yeah it's like

gosh for rot yeah exactly like that that puts asses and sees billy if that's part of everybody part of the charm what yeah if i win everyone everyone's like boo this sucks you won by a million then turn the difficulty out it's all the way up you idiot well then read then read the play read the god damn defenses what just i just told you just look all you gotta do is like oh billy now you're head butting a wall yeah there's two guys up and there's three guys up it's like anyway i'm ranting i might start breaking down steven shay's already done that so yeah but i did you play football what oh good question billy would you ask did you play college football no oh so he said put a jersey on

does he have the same brain damage i do no interesting interesting yeah that's you want to see my accreditation i don't need that it's right here all right billy uh thank you we will see you uh next week or maybe see you for some dungeon and dragons that we got coming up oh yeah can i won't bring can i bring a sledge hammer yes yeah sure absolutely i won't bring the axes but i'll bring a sledge hammer i love it that's a tool not a weapon so yes you can carry that right love you guys you I need less to say, I'm all set in

It's about me, it's about me a little way So let me find myself and say after me It's the better to consent than talking Take on me Take me on I'll be gone And I'll be back to you Ha ha ha ha ha ha