Pardon My Take - NFL Writer Michael Silver, Jayden Daniels Is Incredible, The Jags Are Dead, College Football Talk + Guys On Chicks

Episode Date: September 25, 2024

Jayden Daniels is incredible and we talk Monday Night Football and PFT’s experience in Cincy (00:00:00-00:22:37). The Bills are humming and Trevor Lawrence is broken (00:22:37-00:27:56). College Football talk and Travis Hunter should be the Heisman winner (00:27:56-00:44:42). Hot Seat/Cool Throne including a shift to team Raiola and Joe Mazzulla misses Hank (00:44:42-01:01:19). NFL Writer Michael Silver joins the show to talk football, his new book about the Shanahan coaching tree “The Why Is Everything”, crazy Dennis Rodman stories and tons more (01:01:19-02:04:48). We finish with Guys on Chicks (02:04:48-02:14:10).You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/PardonMyTake

Hey, pardon my take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. On today's pardon my take, we have a great, great interview with Michael Silver. He's got a new book out called The Why is Everything Talking Football, The Shanahan Coaching Tree, some awesome stories of behind the NFL. He came in studio, really, really interesting. He's been obviously in the game for a very long time. We're going to talk Monday Night Football PFT was in the house. We're going to talk college football Wednesday, a lot to get

to their hot seat cool throne guys on chicks pack show for you. And it's all brought to you by our friends at DraftKings Can't make bets make picks this NFL season with DraftKings pick six which wideouts scored more than two TDs which QB QBs through for less than 350 yards which D lineman had more than two sacks now if you think you can pick who will do that Before kickoff you got to play pick six from draft Kings and official daily fantasy partner of the NFL. It's super simple to get started. First download the draft Kings pick six app, then select between two and six players and choose if they'll have more or less of a stat like yards touchdown sacks and more track your picks for a shot at huge cash prizes.

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See terms at pick six dot draft kings dot com slash promos. Okay, let's go. Yeah, pardon my take. Yeah, pardon my take. Yeah, pardon my take. Welcome to Pardon My Take presented by DraftKings. Use DraftKings right now. Pick 6 app and use code TAKE. That's code TAKE for new customers to play $5 on your first Pick 6 set. Get $50 in Pick 6 credits only on DraftKings pick six the crown is yours today is Wednesday September 25th and Pft. Jaden Daniels is incredible. I don't want to get ahead of myself here get ahead of yourself

I don't want to get ahead of myself get ahead of yourself. He's so good. He's so good He's so good 50 is holding up a championship belt. Yes. I am now. I'm not gonna get ahead of myself It's a long season and it's too soon to say anything definitive about him. But what I saw last night made me feel emotions that I have not felt in my cold dead football heart in decades. It was, it was awesome. It was so fun to watch and it's not just like the throw he had to Terry at the end was one of the craziest throws I've ever seen in the face getting destroyed in the pocket and threw it on a dot to Terry dropped it in the bucket. I'm happy for Terry too, most of all, because

he's had some they showed the graphic. I think that was his 11th quarterback he's got a touchdown pass from. Yeah, there's been some bad names on that list. Yeah, some real bad names on that list. And it was it was an incredible moment that that throw was obviously great. But what really got me excited about Jayden, I heard some people call it a J core stadium now. Oh, overhead and might be called j core. Oh, yeah. So he won the LSU off. Um, and we'll get to the bangles a little bit. I think they'll be fine. I don't. Um, but what got me the most excited about Jaden, uh, was how he handled like third downs, fourth

downs. Yeah. He was cool. He was directing guys around, he was calm in the pocket, finding guys downfield. On second downs, picking up like six, seven yards to make third down easier. Like I think that's the best game I've ever seen a quarterback play for my team. He played a perfect game. It was a perfect game. Like every big play that you needed, whether it be run or pass, because he mixed in runs, but it wasn't like, Oh, he's just running. It was just timely, perfect runs and then big time passes. And yeah, it was, it was incredible game to watch. Like he was out of this world. Good. And eyes downfield while he's scrambling to the side. So you can't cut the linebackers can't come up too far and commit. So he's going to take those yards when they're there with his feet or he's going to find somebody

downfield. Uh, it was, it was so fun being at that game. I was screaming my head off the Bengals fans by the way, cities Cincinnati, awesome people. Yeah, love the Bengals fans. They were bummed out obviously because their team didn't look great on defense, but there were no punts, no turnovers. Yep. It's the first time that's happened since when like, I don't know, last week, no, no punts and no turnovers in the same game. Oh, both sides. The commanders did it last week. I wantts and no turnovers in the same game oh oh both sides did it last week I want to say like 40 years 50 years something like that yeah and then the commanders did that I don't think the commanders have

ever done that like two games in a row with no punts and no turnovers is just insane so it feels like I'm watching different sport now I have to get better as a fan because I'm not used I'm not not used to winning. Yeah. I'm not. So I got to figure out how to top the NFC Eastern. How to win with class. That's a very good point, big cat. Yep. I didn't even pack a second Washington shirt

to wear on the plane ride home the next day, which is a rookie move. And I know Chiefs fans are really good at this. When they travel for a game, you got to pack a victory shirt to wear through your opponent's airport the next day. I didn't even have a victory shirt. I think you got to. I mean, it's there's levels to it. We got to, you got to start with your victory shirt. I think you also have to figure

out the victory koozie because like that, that that's one, you know, pre-gaming at a bar you got to put on, you know, you get the, you get the beer, throw on the chief's koozie. Yeah. There's all kinds of accoutrements that you need. I'm not used to this. He's making all this better. I'm building a winning culture for myself as a fan right now It was so much fun to watch it was he was out like every pass was perfect And you know what the best part was it's just the feeling last night And then this morning waking up and watching every single highlight compilation I was watching I was downloading all these YouTube videos for the plane ride home

Even the like foreign ones that are spoken in the robotic British voice where they don't really have the rights to it. It's like still pictures. Yeah. And it's just narrating what happened during those still pictures. I was watching those. I was reading every article about Jayden. I was overdosing on Jayden Daniels. I should OD'd on JD should he was so good. It completely overshadowed the fact that Trevor Lawrence might stink. That's how good Jaden Daniels was. Yeah, he might stink. And I think Shad Khan said before the season, this is the best team that the Jaguars have

ever assembled. So to me, that does not sound good for Doug Peterson. But sticking on your game, yeah, Jaden was out of this world good. Cliff Kingsbury called a perfect game. I do think the Bengals are in trouble. Their defense is not good at all. Their their defense there. I think they have some injuries because I was I was reading Bengals fans

getting upset. They Trey Hendrickson obviously was playing but I think they're like they're on their seventh eighth and ninth. Yeah. Defensive lineman. But here's why the Bengals I think are in trouble. One their defense feels like it's a very big problem that is gonna be hard to fix. Also, only six of the 225 teams that started 0-3 in the Super Bowl era have made the playoffs. One of them famously was my pinky team in 2018,

the Houston Texans. So 2.4% chance of the Bengals statistically making the playoffs. Does it help there as an extra game? Does that matter? It might. It might matter. I also think-

I'm going to look this up. Yeah, that's very insightful actually. I didn't mean to actually. I'm just going to say that was very insightful Hank. But if you look at their schedule, I'm going to do a Pete Prisco on you. It's all about the schedule. It's not easy. They have an easy schedule.

Oh they do? Yeah, the Panthers., the Panthers easy. Andy Dalton. Revenge. All revenge. Ravens. That's a tough place to play in Carolina. Now it is. I got the brown bags off their head. Keep pounding. I did see that Dave Canales tweeted out, uh, keep and then went dot dot dot. Yeah. I don't think he's allowed to say keep pounding. It's not part of his covenant. Uh, then they get the giants, the Browns, the Birds, Raiders. Ravens again, Chargers. I don't know. So I think they have one of the easier schedules in the NFL.

But the problem is when you start 0-3 and you have to get the 10 wins, you can't have another fluke bad game. You can't have another unfortunate chiefs ending of the game. Like you can't, the margin for error now is so thin for the Bengals. But this is also what the Bengals do. It's true.

The only reason I think it's different. They did kind of get robbed on the no pass interference again. Yes. Yeah. The only, wait again? No, sorry. That was the... Falcons. The chiefs got the pass interference. Yes, the Falcons. They didn't get the pass interference.

The chiefs didn't get a pass interference. I'm not going to write off the Bengals because Joe Burrow is Joe Burrow and that offense is elite. I just think it feels different because I don't know where the fixes are on defense. The only fix I have for the Bengals is Joe Burrow has to change his hair color. You can't be 0-3 with that hair. And we love Joe, but I think he deep down knows it. That was a very popular sentiment in the section I was in. He was like, get rid of the frosted down knows it. That was a very popular sentiment in the section I was in. Yeah. It was like, get rid of the frosted tips, Joe.

That's a three and O, can't lose. You gotta cut your hair. They showed him going into his coach's office after the game. He didn't go to the locker room. He walked like straight into the coach's office with Zach Taylor and they had a chat about something. He should just walk right into the barber shop.

Yeah. Right afterwards and be like, no, can't do it. Take it off. I can't, you can't lose with frosted tips. Or like diet jet black. Yeah. Yeah, go goth. Yeah, go It's it's sad around here. He's in a sad boy era right now. Yeah, it was uh, god damn It was a fun game to be at I mean it was it had to have been so much fun So before the game I was lucky I I had a couple beers with the mayor of Cincinnati nice after Pureville I don't know killed her on by no he took over after he's the one that covered up the death

of her on it but I met with him before with with back in the day right back in the day yeah I don't know anything about his politics he's a cool guy had a fun time drinking beers with him and we made a bet because I love the good mayor's bets where they do like the dorkiest bets ever did you get us around his ashes no I didn't I have to I my My initial plan was to ask him for all the documents surrounding the death and subsequent cover-up of Ferambe. But the bet was if the if the Bengals won, he was going to get my Mega Genes. Oh, nice. He loves the Jinko look. He loves the wide legs. And then if the commanders won, he had to buy me a full case 24 Skyline chili cans. Oh, wow. Sh wow shipping some Skyline chili and never saw that coming that you were trying to get skyline chili

I mean I kind of got forced into this bet. Yeah, I guess you have to eat some skyline chili in a little bit I line chili. I have a I have a hypothetical question people are trying to Drive wedges in between certain people on this podcast based on quarterbacks. I would like to talk about that I've the question of the week. Yeah, it. Hank, do you have a noise for that? Doot doot. Oh, you almost. Wow. That was so close. You just edged us. Yeah. You literally edged us with the nerd nugget of the week. Do it again. Doot doot. Okay. The question of the week. I'll ask Hank. Okay. Hank. I want to be respectful of everybody on this podcast Always but right now if you're starting a franchise and take all everything like age contracts all that stuff into account coaches

Yeah, no, just just straight up the player just just the player. Would you rather have Jaden Daniels or Jalen hurts? Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's what everyone wants I like this question BFT Be honest be honest Contracts matter max don't interrupt the question of the week ever again. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean don't know what that was doing You know, I did it. I didn't think I didn't realize everyone wants to know the real question Fucking cool-aid man in the booth you're ruining means just said to me You're ruining the question of the week max

Phillies and all these change the hey Phillies We have that as a graphic it would you rather have Jaden Daniels or Jalen hurts answer Phillies who would you rather have Jaden? Daniels or Jalen hurts if it's contracts andden Daniels, but just purely because of the contract. What about no contracts? No contract. Jalen Hurts is more experience. Okay. More experience.

Yeah. Okay. More winning experience. Max, would you like to ask the real question? What do you say to the haters? I, what do you say to the haters, big cat? I say that I- I say that the Bears have done it again.

Yeah. I say I'm in a fucking no-win situation because if I respond to them They're gonna say that I'm just like trying to cope and when in reality Pft and I have known each other for a very long time. We've been doing the show for a very long time I consider him one of the closest people in my entire life He was at that game his quarterback history is just as bad as the Bears quarterback history He watched Jaden Daniels perform like that. I felt nothing but happiness for him. Now nothing Yes, here.

I'm Can you let me finish Henry? Now? This is partially because I am completely undeterred with Caleb Williams. If I were deterred at all. I would probably have a different feeling. I'm undeterred. I think Caleb Williams is great. I think he's going to be great I know people want to fucking nitpick and say lol bears week three, you know three weeks of the season He's a bust. That's fine. They could do that me when I go to bed when I put my head on my pillow at night I'm like Caleb Williams is fucking awesome

Why can't we both have awesome quarterbacks the only part of the FTS situation right now that I'm jealous of and I will be fully transparent for is Cliff Kingsbury can call hell of a game as an offensive coordinator and I got a fucking dumb dumb poopy poopy brain and Shane Waldron that one like The re- the commanders Without Dan Snyder seem like they're running an organization correctly. The Bears still have their head up their ass So it's not that I think Cale Williams is I feel the Cale Williams is gonna be great. I Still think the Bears are a big problem. I agree that I think they're both gonna be great I think they're both really good people can't I can't is so if I say it people are like, oh, you're just coping

But this is my true sentiment. So I don't know what else I'm supposed to say. Yeah. So they want me to be mad about something I'm not mad about. Here's the issue. If you get down to the offensive coordinator situation, Cliff Kingsbury, he was Caleb Williams offensive coordinator last year at USC. He obviously knows what he's doing with talented quarterbacks. Your offensive coordinator now was hired because he was the guy that would take a job in essentially a lame duck Matt Eberfluss era. Yes. So if you had started over again and fired by the Eberfluss this off season, then you would have a good offensive coordinator. We could, we would. That's, you could, that's a leap. You would, you could potentially have

a good offensive head coach. Yeah, or potentially. Yes, but the hypothetical fact that they didn't fire Matt meant that Iber flu's had to go out there and make phone calls be like, Hey, I really need you to help me turn this thing around or else we're all going to be fired. Yeah. Yeah. So could you like maybe move to Chicago? Don't don't buy rent a house. And then have a clip where they announced it live at a Super Bowl press row and Jackson Smith and Jigba who is live was like Oh, they hired him. Yeah, good luck with that. Yeah his former wide receiver. So yeah, but listen I I stand with big cat despite what big cat may have thought a couple weeks ago I am rooting very hard for kill. I believe you I want Caleb. I bet on Caleb Williams big-time last week

I've seen I know you have the throws and the plays he can make. He's going to be a very good quarterback. I mean, he just had the most passing yards for a Bears quarterback since Brian Hoyer in 2016. I don't know what, I mean, the Hanks of the world, the trolls of the world, they're literally going to not, if I say this, they're going to be like, there's no way this is how he's feeling. I don't know what else to say. I was very happy for PFT. He deserves happiness. That was awesome to watch Can I just I literally would just once I just want to talk about how good he is again I would I would be at the I was I would treat Jaden Daniels is incredible or Jaden Daniels What a throw and just all my replies like you're so salty. Yeah, like what how can I what do I need to do?

How do I correct it? I don't know just say he's so good. He is so good. There we go. He's so good Everybody you know in my thing is everybody knows in my power. That's how good he was Jaden Daniels is incredible washing commanders next to I'm gonna be you know what I okay So also having like a tiny bit of success, and I fully realize this is one game And I'm not sorry, and I'm not gonna overreact and I'm not gonna get ahead of myself But now I can I I can't wait for I don't like that look I'm just out the tongue tongue out. The tongue came out. The tongue is out.

Put your fucking tongue back in your mouth. He's like Steph Curry when he's about to put up a three from the moon. Hank's got a troll thought that he would like to ruin the podcast with. MJ's tongue and Hank's tongue, two most famous tongues. Not a troll thought, just a thought. Cause you said, you know, it's been a long time. Maybe Steven Chase. A long years, whatever.

You did have an electric run with a quarterback till having too long ago right in Patrick RG 3 RG 3 vs. the Vikings primetime game electric oh this is mean I'm just I'm just saying like it's not listen go back and is that not is it not that was a sign where hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater hater But, what are you talking about? Two things can be unbelievable game, great performance, you look like you have the cube in your future. What do you mean unbelievable game? It's an unbelievable season from RG3. Yeah, it was very good that season.

Right, but, okay Hank, two things can be true. You said that you haven't felt this in a long time, but did you not feel the same way with RG3? That's over a decade ago. Okay. That's 12 years ago. But did you not feel the same way? Listen, two things can be true.

One, Hank's a piece of shit troll and two I mean, that's where you won't let me said multiple decades, but yeah, you did. No, you definitely You won't let me even say point two. That's that's how big a troll you're being My point two is so true Hank is actually correct Yes that like it is there's a lot of similarities between Jaden Daniels and RG three They're both electric athletes Jaden is already more developed as a pocket passer and RG3. They're both electric athletes. Jaden is already more developed as a pocket passer than RG3 was. His tee ball is incredible. Learn ball, Hank. Yeah, learn ball please. Oh, and by the way, Taylor Britt, the

cornerback on the Bengals, he is the... Yeah. Who's the LeBron stopper? Dylan Brooks? Yeah. He's like the Dylan Brooks of and Steve of the NFL like he loves talking shit before games It's crazy. And so he's right about Xavier worthy He was but he also didn't have a great game, right? I guess the Chiefs I think gave up a big touchdown Yeah, but he was talking shit about the offense. He did have that crazy interception We should that the interception was bangles fans are gonna get mad that we didn't say that Yes, but he's also addicted to talking shit, correct He's so he talks shit about the the college-style offense. Yeah simple offense and then he got cooked. So

Oh back to Hank. Yeah the troll There's a ton of similarities like there are a lot of similarities between the situation I'm in right now and where I was in 2012 mentally The difference is I think that Jaden is built to last in the NFL as long as we don't fuck him up with a weird Creepy injury I think what I saw from last night that tells me I got I got 12 years of happiness I think the organization helps no Dan Snyder. Yeah, that's the answer. No Dan Snyder. No Dan Snyder I know it was I was just trying to clarify what your multiple net credits comment was. Thanks for asking for a clarification. I know we're grass guys, but I'm thinking just like please maybe just bulldoze the thing

and put in some really good turf. Like keep him healthy. Split grass, whatever. Because we can't figure out how to keep a grass field healthy for people. I also don't appreciate Max's little grin. Like he knows that I'm getting too happy. No! Commanders are top of the NFC East. Yes they are. Yes they are. And I... Wave up at him.

No, I wish Jaden Daniels was not in the NFC East. I'm willing to say that. He looks good. He looks very good. I wish he was in the NFC East. That is the biggest compliment I can give. Yeah, I appreciate that. And what I feel a little bit is maybe maybe one day Eagles fans will hate the commanders

again. Maybe one day Cowboys will hate the commanders again. I was thinking that. It was TV too. It was Monday Night Football. What? You had Jaguars Bills on TV One? It was a blowout.

Oh, you were watching Love Actually? Yep, no. Yeah? I was watching. You were doing Smoochy face. I don't love actually No, but what were you watching? The only answer you could say right now is Monday Night Raw You weren't watching You're watching like Southern House movie I was watching

Twisters is a fine movie. Okay, that's pretty sad. You didn't see it in theaters, but I was watching it on my laptop and That's that's TV. That's TV. Too TV2? Yeah, I don't have two TVs. What's TV3, your phone? TV3 would be phone. Yeah. Well, actually, to be honest, it was Phillies. And then the Phillies started to put it away. Then it was that one.

I love it. You're overlooking us. I love it. What? No. No. I'm not overlooking it. Is Jalen Hurts the third best quarterback in the NFC East now?

Well, if we're doing the the question Hank doesn't like which quarterback Would you take given the salary age all that take change? Thank you. Thank you. Wow. Yeah, yeah, any rookie on a rookie quarterback. Yeah rookie contract, but yeah, he's I mean I don't know it's one game, but he's the best quarterback in that division. Maybe even in the entire league. It's one game And I'm not gonna get ahead of myself He's right about the one game how many drives how many touch how many how many punts did he have against the Giants? That's a real question. We should be asking ourselves Two games in a row no punts no interceptions either. Yeah No, he looks very very good and I do think he's going to be a very very good quarterback

I'm also excited zero touchdowns against Giants. Okay. Well, that was a long time ago. That was last week That was weeks ago weeks decades No, I jaden Daniels is looks incredible. I'm excited. I'm excited to also get mad at hypothetical quarterback lists now, too What did you say earlier before Hank interrupted you you said that you said that you're very excited about something Yeah, I'm excited about getting angry. Yeah, life, everything. I'm excited about getting angry at people that I think are slightly disrespecting my quarterback. Like becoming full Stan.

What is your schedule looking like? What's your projection now after last night? Well, I know. No, not thinking soupy. I did fire off a tweet at like 3 a.m. As I was I got back from the casino had a couple cocktails CJ Abrams style and I I said that I think he's gonna win a Super Bowl in the next five years Whoa, and I think he is like it maybe even two but

Yof's this year love that we're thinking the offs Yof's realistic and I do think that the Bengals can make the Yof's given their schedule. I think they'll Realistic and I do think that the Bengals can make the off's given their schedule. I think they'll Louie Maroon, oh, how do you say his name? Yeah, you got it in a room. Oh, he's so good. He's gonna coach a he's gonna figure something out I don't know if they have the dudes they lost some guys on on defense Yeah, and then Trent Brown going down was was bad to add best tattoo ever. Yeah two girls sucking him off on his arm Yeah, uh We should talk about the other game real quick. Josh Allen is incredible. I know people he's a leading he's a leader

for the MVP right now. He basically he beat the Jaguars in 30 minutes. Trevor Lawrence helped to beat the Jaguars. He looked bad. They had commanders had a perfect game. Josh Allen had a perfect half. Yeah. and the game was over. It was over It was over. I mean tomorrow Hamlin picked off Trevor Lawrence and it was over but Josh Allen was he was toying with them That wasn't it's so I'm very happy for Bills fans that like the angst of having to reset the roster and Everything you you have Josh Allen Mm-hmm, and and Josh Allen is what a franchise quarterback looks like and we've said it a million times Just because he's not Patrick Mahomes doesn't mean he's the second

He is the second best quarterback in the NFL and this is how this is why you see it And it probably is addition by subtraction losing digs Oh, definitely and Gabe Davis who you never knew if he was gonna like actually be alive. Yeah week to week basis Yeah, Keon Coleman. Yeah. Got a touchdown. Keon Coleman. Uh, it's, it feels like the Josh is like, he's turned a brand new page, clean slate for this team. So he doesn't have any of that excess baggage that he used to have. And so now he's just going out there. He's like, I have to win these football games. And also cook is looking really good at running back. Cook looks awesome. Shakir looks awesome. As, gay the games get further into the season gets colder

They're gonna lean on that running game. Yeah, and Joe Brady loves to lean on the running game when it works They're not gonna abandon it. I I think that the bills are for real. Yeah, it looks awesome it was Brady at like a Five touchdowns to five different players is a sign of a great team. Yeah great quarterback And yeah, just Josh Allen just seeing the game better than anyone right now He is the leader for the MVP. I think odds wise. I mean he's playing better than Mahomes through three games Trevor Lawrence might suck now I

Haven't thought Trevor Lawrence suck because I'm like it's the Jaguars and also he was really good at Clemson and like that guy's somewhere When he did the spin to nowhere the Jaguars and also he was really good at Clemson and like that guy's somewhere. When he did the spin to nowhere, that was the first time where I was like, oh no. Or the pick to Demar. I mean the pick was to Demar, but the spin to nowhere. The pick off by a dead guy.

Like bad picks happen, that was a really bad pick. But the spin to nowhere made me, that was a Sam Donaldson ghost moment where he's literally just, it was, he spun with, to nowhere. It just made it worse for him. Yeah, he's- And so I feel like he's-

He got spun into his own guy. Yeah, it was, I don't know, I feel bad for Chaps. This is an ugly situation. And then, I mean, we did get to see Mac Jones first play fumble, which was very funny. It was perfect. I just punched it out of his hand. I don't know where to go if you're the Jaguars. Yeah, it seems like London.

Yeah, go to London. We're right when the when the owner says before the season starts that this is the most talented team he's ever assembled, then that means that it's on the head coach. Yeah, that means that Doug Peterson is not long not world might not be bring urban back. I don't know. I just it was also one of those games you've seen a lot of Nothing look would look weird. Oh, it's been built. Oh, yes fit ever. I just want to say in a Jaguars outfit on the sideline We can tell I mean the the what he's doing with the Cowboys is so funny. Have you seen that?

No, he's been he does Mac fee every week and he just you like is Over-complementary about how well the the team is built and like they have all the players and all the tools. It's just like, they need something to, you know, figure it all out. But he's just openly, you know, essentially applying for the job and like their roster is really constructed great. Like they have all the tools. He's got a little bit of Hank Lockwood in him. He's got some of that troll going.

Like when he was talking about the Falcons On on the man in cast and saying yeah He's one of those guys that they got in trouble for cuz they tampered with him Yeah, he's just going scorched earth. I got a text from Chaps I just read it right now because I think he sent it during the game and I was drunk and preoccupied. He was in hell He said cut. Yeah. Yeah, same thing. I kind of cool that Trevor Lawrence is the first guy picked off by a former corpse. Oh, so, yeah. Demar is back.

Yeah, Demar is back. Happy for Demar. First interception. Very happy for Demar. I love the double Monday night football. I know we had a discussion, but that was exactly why because the Bill's Jags game was over in 10 minutes and the Commander's Bengals game was awesome if we had just Bill's Jags that would have been a really disappointing Monday night yeah something I'm gonna get a backup

plan I like having the standalone because it's good to just especially after watching all your screens all day on Sunday it's good to have one game that we can all focus on together but if there's a blowout it's good to have the backup plan and this was a great backup and we have it again next week oh who do we got I believe we hawks the alliance should be great and then i think it's like dolphins which is actually it's good because if they could ever do like flex scheduling to schedule it this way it would work where you're like this is the game that's going to be a bummer and this is the game that should be uh great titans dolphins

bummer but then seahawks Lions to save the day that will that will be great yep so it's like you just basically start your Monday football a little bit early and yeah you get it you get the lion Seahawks which is gonna be awesome yes can be a very fun game um okay should we talk a little college football before we do hot seat cool thrown and get to our interview let's talk uh I don't know where we want to start. We could start. Actually, you know what? Let's start with Tennessee. Tennessee goes down to Oklahoma, throttles Oklahoma. It's very weird watching Oklahoma play football without a good offense. But that's not taking anything away from Tennessee's defense because it feels like Tennessee finally has a defense. Yeah, and

it also feels like they're the backup quarterback that they put in is probably gonna Be the starter for Oklahoma. Yeah, he looked a lot better. What's his name? Uh Fuck he was he was shifty. He was he was twice as good as the starter Um, so I think Oklahoma will improve based on that But yeah, Tennessee is for real and Oklahoma officially on the Michael Hawkins Jackson Arnold was one who got benched So Oklahoma they're supposed to be SEC now. Yeah, they ain't SEC. Not yet. No, it's weird. It is very strange. I mean, we it's all strange. I watched on Friday night, I watched a vaunted

ACC matchup of Stanford versus Syracuse. That's so crazy, isn't it? So crazy. So Tennessee is for real. They have a some big time games coming up. I'm excited because it does feel like Tennessee under the hypo era who I pull seems like a pretty Good dude. He he had a video where it was it was nice. It was touching because he obviously went to Oklahoma Venables was his coach all these things got fired from there He had a video where he's like it meant I know you guys brought a little extra juice for me. Mm-hmm The social media guy was doing the memes angle because he was just standing underneath Hypal's double chin.

So I've thought this about Hypal for a little bit. He desperately needs a beard. Dude, I don't know if a beard could save it. The problem is he was a really good quarterback and was very skinny then. Yeah, he was very athletic. And now, now, great coach. Yeah, great coach. And his offenses are fun. If you're a Tennessee fan, you're probably he's the exact perfect coach that you would want, I think, because he's such a college head coach. Yes, he's such a college he runs such a college offense, that you're not going to be in danger of him leaving for

the NFL. I don't think yeah, because that's not it's not going to be in danger of him leaving for the NFL. I don't think. Yeah. Because that's not going to translate at the special level. I guess it just depends on money. Money probably. But I'm saying, there are a lot of dumb owners that would probably make that gamble. But he's an awesome, awesome head coach. And I think that what he's put in is pretty repeatable.

Yeah. Yeah, I'd agree. Obviously, Nico is a game changer. Nico's awesome. Nico's awesome. I'm buying Tennessee stock. Also the clip if you're a Tennessee fan, you're just you know, Tennessee porn the Peyton Manning coming out with Morgan Wallen. Yes. Full Tennessee jersey with the pants and helmet was I'm not

a Tennessee fan or Peyton Manning fan really, but that clip was hilarious. What was Morgan wearing? Probably just I don't know. I think he just wears a Jersey. Yeah. Every time the Harrison Bucker Jersey every time. Yeah. He wears a Jersey every single time. All right. Speaking of speaking of coaches, Josh Hyple, we have two coach things I wanted to talk about one was your JMU almost got Mac Brown resigned, but he didn't, which is one of the funniest like things. So JMU put 70 on UNC hung 70 on 70. They got paid to put hung 70 on first half 50 burger. Yeah. And they lost so

bad that Mac Brown after the game, told his team in the locker room that he was retiring. And everyone believed it. And then after the game game there was someone from inside the UNC program said he's not retiring, he will be in the office tomorrow and getting back to work. That source said Saturday night going in and having a normal Sunday. Sometimes you just got to say things. Sometimes you just got to say it and then you have almost a post-nut clarity afterwards and you're like, oh, that was stupid. I shouldn't quit. He's driving home. He's like, I really like getting paid. Yeah. I like being the

head coach. He said afterwards, he said he was disappointing and disappointed in himself in his reaction by saying that he was going to reside, which I'm all for. I think it's a hilarious reaction. I think that's like, if you get beat by that bad, just being like, you know what guys, I'm done. Especially when you're old Yeah, when you're old because it's like you guys are gonna kill me. So I'm quitting. I Think in a weird way. He definitely wasn't doing this on purpose But it's kind of like the the Phil Jackson move of you've got a bad team and now the entire story is about Mac Brown and it's not about his players. He also said he clarified afterwards that he didn't fully resign he said if you all don't feel like I'm the leader you need then I'll go do something else

And then everyone was like no we still want you to coach so he rallied the troops after a 70-point loss Yeah, he quit and then the team elected him coach again, correct, which tells me named him coach He hasn't lost a locker room yet. Is he the interim coach now? I think he's interim coach Mac Brown Yeah, take you over for Mac and then the team will decide whether or not to promote him full time. But yeah, that was an ass kicking. I think JMU is really good. Yeah, I think they're gonna be, I thought this was gonna be a down year. I think they're gonna be right there competing for the Sunbelt. Yeah, they looked really, really good. I just I love I mean, beating a team that bad to have your have a coach result fake resign, yeah, that's gotta feel awesome.

It's pretty good. And their offensive coordinator at JMU is awesome. Isn't he Hank? Dean Kennedy, sit you a kid. I've known him forever. He's like two years older than me. He's my sister's age. That's scary.

That was, that was watching that game. But Hank knows someone who's an offensive coordinator, like he's running your team's offense and he knows Henry Lockwood. Yeah, he's a stud. I mean, that was. Absolute stud. He, it's the holy cross effect. I was doing some research after because I was like Dean

Kennedy offensive coordinator JMU but it's he went with the Holy Cross coach. He was there Bob Chesney and now he's a JMU killing it. I mean, people are saying he might be looking at some NFL offers who the other who's saying that me just yeah, the other people. So the other coach story was Hugh Fries being a absolute idiot yet again. He had a double whammy. He had a ex player, Bo Wallace come out and just say he's the most selfish guy ever. It's always the quarterback's fault. It's never his fault. And then he said on Monday, I love Sam Pittman and I hope he wins the

rest of his games. But I'm telling you the hard truth is We play Arkansas nine more times. We beat them nine times. Yeah, that's what's hard to take. That's loser talk They lost 24 to 14 in his quarterbacks through four interceptions including Hank Brown. Sorry Hank Yeah, he was the next up Hank. Yeah, Hugh Freeze. I feel like the Ropes run a little thin. Yeah, I think they're I think they're getting a little sick old Hugh Freeze down there in Auburn. Well, I think also Hugh Freeze. Not that any of these guys are good losers, but Hugh Freeze has won a lot everywhere he's been and getting used to losing is he's not going to deal with it. Well, no, I mean, he won from a hospital bet. Yeah. Yeah. So that was that was a funny Auburn feels like they're in a tough tough spot

basically They just need to lose by two to Alabama in the Iron Bowl be like alright We're building something it'd be an ultimate football guy move if instead of like inspiring your team from from coaching from a hospital bed You actually dig your own grave and put up a headstone And then you lower you're in a casket with an iPad and your coach and you guys have killed me I like that. I like that. Go out to save my life boys. We should probably talk about the big Michigan win which was old school smash mouth football that didn't work for the entire second half. So Michigan beat USC. It looked so Michigan starting Alex Orji who can't throw

and they were like, we're just going to run run the ball USC made they were down early made some good adjustments a halftime going up to the final three minutes Michigan had nine yards and zero first downs in the second half and then Khalil Mullings had a 63 yard run in Michigan survived and now like I know it's obviously a cliche but it is very funny that USC's first game in the Big Ten and you could basically say, well, they just punch you in the mouth and played bully ball. Yeah. Those soft California boys couldn't handle it.

Yeah. They couldn't handle the fullback at the end. That was a good block by the fullback. Holy shit. Max Bredesen. Yeah. He gave him the old chicken wing and post them up almost. Yup.

Yeah. They can, Michigan, you can spin this very easily and be like, yeah, we beat you playing old school Michigan football. But it probably, you probably got a little bit lucky at the end too. Yeah. Yeah. Because that, that was a play where they just couldn't do anything and then they broke a couple of tackles. But you know what, you know what you say if you're, if you're a Michigan fan to a response to what you just said, we leaned on them. You lean on them till they break. They got tired. You keep running the ball until they break. Those California vegan legs didn't have the fast twitch.

So Alex Orji was 7 for 12 for 32 yards after being named the starter. But that might be the formula for Michigan, just like maybe even don't let them pass the ball. What's the point of having 32 yards passing? Just have zero yards. I felt like they were going to maybe in Davis Warren again, who had thrown three picks against Arkansas State last week. And they were still like, nah, we'll go with Alex Orji here.

Did you hear about the hear this one? You hear about this? You're seeing this? You read about this? Tell me, tell me, tell me. They call him Orji because when he's on the field, you got to put eight dudes in the box. Ooh, nice. That's a lot of dudes in the box. That's a lot of dudes. It box. That's a lot of dudes. It's an orgy. Yeah that is.

Well that's not, that's a gang bang. That's a good point. Yeah that's not an orgy. That's a good point. That's definitely not an orgy. Okay. Yeah. You gotta clean that up.

Yeah I'll clean it up. Yeah. We're still workshopping that one. All right last story I had, I don't know what else you had PFT, but Travis Hunter should be the Heisman. Thank you, thank you. And maybe it's because I bet on him pre-season, but Travis Hunter should be the Heisman. Thank you. Thank you. I, and maybe it's because I bet on him preseason, but Travis Hunter

should be the Heisman. Thank you. That was the other thing I want to talk about. I said that on Twitter during the game and then everybody was like, well, he is the front runner for the Heisman. No, he's not. No, he's not even close to being the front runner for the Heisman. But if you look at what the Heisman trophy is supposed to be, he is the best football player in college football. The best football player in college football, best football player in college football. Maybe the best football. If you said best football player alive right now, you could maybe say that. I think Jayden's got him. Travis Hunter. And, and I think he gets a little, uh,

knock on it because people have Dion fatigue and all that stuff. If you actually voted for Heisman, how it should be voted best player, not how every award now gets voted on, which is essentially best team's quarterback, which happens the NFL and in college football, which sucks. Travis Hunter should be your Heisman Trophy winner because he is the best football player in college football. He is averaging 131 snaps per game. 131 snaps per game. 131 snaps per game. He ranks fourth amongst all receivers

with 37 catches and six with 472 yards. And he's also on defense has allowed 11 receptions for 75 yards in 142 coverage reps. It's crazy how good he is. And that he's show hay for football. And what he did at the end of the game was insane. He forced the fumble at the goal line, won them the game. PFT he did. He forced the fumble at the goal line won them the game PFT He did he forced the fumble at the goal line to win him a game But he also had seven catches for 130 yards. Yeah, and on the force fumble. That was his 144 snap of the night. It's crazy now you you could say is this sustainable will he be able to play this many snaps? I I think it might be.

Because I know he got hurt last year, but it's fucking insane that a dude is, he is one of the best wide receivers in college football and the best cornerback in college football. How is he not the Heisman? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. He is the Heisman. He should be the Heisman winner, but the haters out there like Brandon Walker would say it's not sustainable.

I think Brandon Walker doesn't know college football. That's Dion Fatih. That's why he's not our college football expert. Yes, that's true. But yeah, Travis Hunter is the best player in college football. And but he did. Brandon did walk me through a mental exercise. And I think he's right, which is just close your eyes and think about an undefeated SEC team. How is the quarterback of that team not going to win the Heisman Trophy? I mean, if it's Jalen Milrow. Jackson Dart, he probably won it. What if it's Quinn Ubers and he missed a few games?

That's a good point. That could easily happen. Do you think if Texas runs the table, it could be Arch? No. I don't think you're gonna lose your job. The Mannings even came out and said it, which of course they did. They're like, we believe in the process. We believe you can't lose your job to an injury. Very classy. Very classy of them. Yeah. I think that they're gonna bring yours back unless Arch lights up a real sec defense. If yours is out long enough and I'm not talking about Mississippi state, I mean a real sec correct. If arch manning

lights them up, then I, I could see Sark saying we can't really go back right now. They could also do like a jail and hurts to a thing. Well, arch does have, I mean, he does open up the game because his legs, that's what I'm saying. But they might have the option where it's like, if things are are going south throw arch and turn it around You did have one bad He had a bad interception to start the game Maybe because I bet over 13 and a half points the first quarter and I was watching intently But then he came back and was awesome, but also so back to Colorado real quick

They just play the craziest games all the time the Hail Mary. I've never seen anything like it. Dave Aranda. I mean, he's already he was going to be fired. Probably if you won this game, if he you know, it doesn't really matter. He's he's running out in Baylor. How is how do you have back to back Hail Marys that both one was completed? The other should have been completed. Yeah. Where it's you have one guy on a receiver. Yeah, it was it was bizarre, but that's what Colorado does they play in these crazy crazy endings And it's so much fun and it's so much fun to watch and then you have the Dion factor Which is if you love them or if you hate them, it's gonna be very interesting It does feel like the Netflix reboot of Tebow mania. Yeah, like they just win. Yeah, somehow against yes

Sometimes some bad teams I think the winning might the winning going to come to an end turn this weekend because it feels like I think they're going to UCF and they're pretty good this year and then they have some big 12. Oh, shout out by the way, Utah back to their old tricks camera rising. I can't I can't quit them. They camera rising was they wouldn't tell us if he was going to play or not. And then he played once that. That's just what they do Kyle. Woodingham loves he's addicted to

Injury ports being vague with cam rising specifically keep him guessing. Yeah, we got some good games coming up this week Oh, yeah, Georgia Bama, Georgia Bama. I like Bama. I Haven't decided yet. I Don't think George's ass did does Georgia have the horses big cat specifically an offense? I Yeah, I pass. Okay, I passed. I'm passing. Hey, I'll give you an answer on from you watch a lot of college football, Georgia. You're taking Georgia? Do you know where the games being played? No, Emma. You're taking Bama. Georgia. Georgia. Okay.

What about the shit guy getting off easy? Oh yeah. Burrito guy. So this is just the new trend that we touched on on Sunday, but oh. Florida State. Oh yeah. I know Florida State did win. They beat Cal.

So the guy who said he was going to, there was the curse of the guy. Yeah. Yeah. That would have been such a great loss too. Cal was like the memes going into the game Oh, Cal Twitter's awesome They're gonna turn to Calahassie and they were they were making these like AI generated images of a bear at the gates of the stadium Confiscating people's guns. Yeah, they've Cal Twitter has been so funny because they just leaned into all of

The cliches about the University of California, Berkeley, they said they were going to rename it Woke Campbell Stadium. Yeah. This is Doak Campbell Stadium. When they beat Auburn a few weeks ago, they said that they renamed it's no longer War Eagle. It's like Peace, Diversity, and Inclusion Eagle. It's so funny.

They said that they were going to turn. It was not going to be like a checkerboard pattern like Tennessee does, but that Florida State was going to have a rainbow. Yes. So if you're wearing and if you're sitting in certain rows, you have to wear a blue shirt and to go violet. It was very funny. It was great. It was great. Great week of college football, though. Great week of college football. Yeah. Love college football. Anything else from college football. Travis Hunter should be the Heisman. Everyone should tell two people. If everyone tells two people, that's a lot of people we've told.

Yeah, paid forward. Yeah. And again, this has nothing to do with like what we did. Did you bet him? What's his odds right now? I should. 20 to one. I just looked as you were saying. I will bet him. I will bet him before this episode comes out. Bet it. Bet it. He should be. And we should- Did it last year with you? I I was gonna say we don't really we don't Really like we don't know the power of this podcast I'm not saying that we got you Daniels Heisman, but we didn't hurt it. Yeah, we should make sure it's that say

Travis Hunter should be the Heisman. Yeah, and just every week just even if he has a bad game She's like well, he played 130 snaps. Yeah, no one else did that he has a bad game, just like well he played 130 snaps. Yeah, no one else did that. Okay, let's do hot seat cool thrown then we'll get to our awesome interview with Michael Silver and his new book on the NFL. Hot Seat Cool Thrown brought to you by Coors Light college football is never short on intrigue, especially when they're iconic rivals, but you can add to the excitement on Saturdays. Coors Light teamed up with DraftKings for the free to play college football pick and pools where you pick winners for a chance to win big. When the rivalries heat up, it's time to choose chill and then reach for an ice cold Coors Light. When you're looking to keep it chill, there's only one beer to choose

Coors Light. The mountains on the bottles and cans even turn blue when your beer is cold. Coors Light is mountain cold refreshment. Coors Light is cold lager, cold filtered, cold package. When the college football rivalries you're watching heat up choose chill with course light and DraftKings get course light to the retreat you're doing with Instacart by going to course light comm slash take 21 plus eligibility restrictions apply void where prohibited C terms of DraftKings comm slash course light pick them celebrate responsibility course brewing company golden Colorado Hank Hotsie culture Hotsies Erling Holland Oh Soccer talking footy talking footy. Did you guys see this? No

Man City beat Arsenal. Okay, and Erling Holland they scored and he which I liked but people are Very upset with him. He took the ball out of the goal and was running back And then you know There's a defender basically standing in the box facing the other way and he just threw the ball at the back of his head an Arsenal guy. Oh okay I like that. So people are no easy buckets. Yeah people are fired up there was a little scuffle after the game. That's shit. People are calling him a scumbag but I think it's like if you're you know one of the best players in the world that's kind of kind of what you do. Yeah it would be an honor to have somebody throw a ball at my head if I was beating

the shit out of them. Yeah. No he it was the early Holland one and then just kind of threw it at the back. Oh Holland Yeah, he threw it his head. Yeah, the other guy. Okay. Okay classless I I like to move more bad blood and soccer. Yeah, listen man. So he does have bad man city You got to stand up for yourself. It's a it's a gritty scrappy neighborhood in London Mm-hmm, and the people that live there Beatles are from there Yeah, they probably like having a player like that who will embody the culture their city agreed. I have another one. Yeah, Travis Kelsey. Oh This I think is also contract

No, I think and I don't really have the hate that I had for the Chiefs when the Patriots were good But I so I could I think it's easier to say that People are getting on Travis Kelsey hasn't had a good start to the year. They're saying he was gonna retire if you didn't have a podcast But I think when you're the Chiefs and you're you know back-to-back champs And you know who you are doesn't matter that much Yeah, my homes is not played great as long as and but they're still winning and as long as right Kelsey's healthy in the playoffs Like yeah, he's gonna be fine correct. I was gonna be fine. Yeah, he'll be okay, but the I think it's more maybe the Swifties Them getting involved and being like why isn't Travis playing? Well is creating a narrative

Shots him on the sideline looking sad. Oh, so is it my home's fault? That's there's there's a lot I'll and it but wait no hold on. I would like to do a message real quick Swifties, are you listening to this? Yes, you are because you're a big time AWLs. This usually goes well. So, Swifties, let's talk. Heart to heart, you love me, I love you. PNV, we'll just pretend that never happened.

Travis Kelce is being blackballed by the Kansas City Chiefs. He is, they're basically shutting him out. They're not letting him play. They're not letting him score They're not letting him be great and the name and culprit behind all this is one Matthew Nagy Okay, go find him actually don't do that. That's bad. Uh, Matt Nagy was the problem Swifties already I went a little too deep there. I was just they won't there Swifties. I went a little too deep there. They won't. They actually aren't listening to this right now. My theory, Swifties, is that Brittany is telling Patrick not to throw the ball to Travis anymore

because he's a liberal. But I thought, isn't Brittany, she's back with T. Swift. Oh, she's back with T. Got it. T. Rump. Oh, she's back with tea. Got it. T Romp. Oh, I think I think I think Trump told Brittany to tell Patrick to not throw the ball to Kelsey, because he's a liberal. Again, though, I don't know if we're clear if Trump hates Taylor Swift or not. You might like her. That means we just said I hate Taylor Swift. That could mean anything like a six-year-old teasing way he might yeah I might love her gum in her hair yeah I like this love that so the Swifties are

mad I like this I think the I think the it's fucked up the Swifties literally they've done one football season they've won a Super Bowl yeah I'm gonna stop right here she but I she I did see and it's like I think that he was gonna retire if you never podcast is a funny oh ridiculous narrative but yeah yeah that is funny okay good job oh my cool throne Celtics NBA I saw this quote Celtics had there was a bunch of quotes as media day I was just you have to say the Jalen Brown quote taking it all in.

What, the Jalen Brown Pistons won? The Jalen Brown said about the Pistons, we're going to play through Payton, let him go for 30, play through Sam, let him shoot 10 threes tonight. We're going to still win the game. That is the most disrespectful thing you could say about another team. Just being like, yeah, our offense is going through Payton Pritchard tonight. We're just a stacked team. They're a deep team.

They did all the pictures with the Olympics guys. Jason Tatum was more upfront being like, yeah, it pissed me off that I didn't play. I was mad. He basically said, he's like, no one was happier about the Olympics than Joe Missoula because he kind of knew that that he was gonna be able to use that as motivation.

Of course. They asked Missoula if he enjoyed celebrating the summer as a champion. He said, I didn't really enjoy the summer. I enjoyed the parade. Which I can agree with. The parade was great. It was the highlight of the summer. Yeah. Me too. Spending time with Hank. Yeah it's just great. It's great you know when your team is coming off a championship and it's gearing back up. You get the... I can't wait for that. I don't really have the excitement of a championship potential team with the Patriots but it's good that Celtics are back

How was Tatum's aura? It was great. He's got some new shoes that are releasing I was gonna ask you about the shoes. He's got the MVP, All Star MVP Tattoo. He also did see he got a tattoo of himself. Oh, like that's really kissing the trophy. Big time aura. Yeah, Steve-o I was gonna ask you about the shoes. The shoes are so sick. I'll be getting a pair. Okay. These shoes suck. Hank, we had a picture pulled up.

There's also one that's way more green and blue. Yeah, that one. Fire. PFT. No, Hank, the way I would talk about these shoes is by saying they look like a pair of shoes that I would wear. Correct. The way you were about to say that, Hank, was crazy.

Yeah. The way you were about to say Hank was crazy. Yeah. That's a, that's, that's, that's the PFT comes in with like while purple shorts, a t-shirt that doesn't match the purple shorts, a brown t-shirt and those shoes. If they send them to PFT for free, he'll wear them. That's his. Yeah. I would. Those are the type of shoes. I exactly the type of shoes I would wear. Yeah. That's not good. Yeah, they're hot. Good job, Hank. Thanks. PFT. All right. So cool to run. Great job. I don't know if I can follow that up. Hank had two hot seats. He was on fire. My my hot seat is Penn State students. Oh, because you got called out

twice by Bert B. Lema, coach of Illinois for no Illinois for no ranked Illinois ranked Illinois they they won the tie against Nebraska last week Burt said that Nebraska is a tougher environment than Penn State than Happy Valley And then he doubled down on it by saying that they're going to be doing a whiteout And he said bringing the whiteout energy whatever the hell that means oh so he's fired up well James Franklin said that James Franklin and his post game said that I need the white out energy I need the way I need out energy yeah but then is Brett doing yeah I mean that's I mean they're also 17 and a half point dogs yeah but then he said whatever the hell that means well I mean that's just what James Franklin said he's just like what James Franklin said at his post game press conference. He was like, next week's

a big game. I need the fans to come out. I need what I need white out energy. Does that mean that they're going to cover up their mistakes? That is a Penn State thing. No, you see in college football, Penn State has this tradition where they do the white out one game a year. All this. The whole stadium is white. I'm well, it's like a really big thing in college. I'm well like a really big thing in college I'm well aware of the whiteout max we've we've discussed it on this show How you guys burn your whiteouts on lame games, Minnesota last year? That's Fox's fault big ten fucking big ten kickoff is big noon kickoff is bullshit. Okay, so but you gotta do

Yeah, I guess he's kicking the hornet's nest We'll see what happens now. I will yeah What? Want to finish that state loses you'll shove a burrito up your ass now want to finish that sentence if Penn State loses you have to tear a statue down somewhere What no no that's ain't any of this Really really That's your answer really worried about that right now

Then my cool throw is just lists in general because with the diddy stuff coming out. Oh It's been deep in yeah, Hank is really really deep into it. Would you ask me like do I think Tom Hanks is involved? You know, he said no, he's direct quote was what are your thoughts on Tom Hanks? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know He's a good actor for Forrest Gump rocked. That's pretty much the start. Oh, Captain Phillips was good too. Actually, he's been a lot of good stuff. But there's some speculation that there's gonna be lists coming out about never come out, who is at the freak parties. The list never come out. They tell you that there's a list and it's a distraction so that you can come up with your old your own like

a fan fiction, like lore universe that you make up and with your old your own like a fan fiction like lore universe that you make up and you're like here's who's gonna be on this list. There'll be some fake lists that come out. Yeah. Look like real lists. I think there's already been some fake lists that come out. But yeah, there's some weird stuff. And what's crazy about the Diddy thing is you can go back and watch Diddy like admitting

to be a weirdo. It's not in real time. And everybody was just like, yeah, Diddy's kind of crazy. It's crazy that everyone knew this I I feel like I was the last to know yeah I had no idea you think we know about Biggie what he might have killed Biggie I heard that oh no is that your theory streets are saying um yeah I don't think lists will ever come out they never do but they love they love making you think that there's a list yes that's gonna come out they never do but they love they love making you think that there's a list. Yes, that's gonna come out Yes, also other celebrities have been coming out like denouncing Pete like I know like

Did he that now like this podcast announces? Hey, okay now with something that was like I have nothing I had nothing to do with P. Diddy or any of his parties Yeah, kind of a weird thing. It makes it makes you think that Mmm, the meek mill the funniest meek who's like. Yeah, he's going through it. He's he's in a million pictures videos like he's definitely in was in P Diddy circle tweeted like I'll pay 100 grand if someone can figure out why I'm always getting brought up with the P Diddy stuff. It's like. Yeah, I would like to defend our for five years. I would like to defend maybe this is a mistake, but our there is that one video that's going around where did he does a cheers with Jay Z and a bunch of people in?

Leonard Furnett somehow in it. That's always makes me laugh playoff Lenny I'm gonna back playoff Lenny. Yeah Yeah, until proven otherwise until proven otherwise. Yep. He's our friend and also meek mills a rock nation brunch. Not a diddy party Oh, there we go. Boom Back playoff Lenny and for the record Meek Mill is a rock nation brunch. Not a diddy party. Oh, there we go. Boom Back playoff Lenny and for the record Meek Mill is a hundred percent straight His quote when I got a girl around me. I'm fucking her twice a day Oh hell yeah, ask some of your favorites pussy don't control me, but it's like a high one love to the gay people But that juicy pussy do it for me. I Done ran red lights to get that feeling y'all weird on here. Hell. Yes, so

Suck on that one haters. That is sick. That's a straight thing. Whoa say that's so sick That's what reminds me of the old Diplo tweet doing doing girls is cool, but doing work last way longer more fulfilling I like that. Yeah doing girls. You remember when Mike Piazza had a press conference to announce that he was straight Yep, that was funny. That was funny. Um, all right. My hot seat is anyone who's ever, uh, bash Dylan Raiola because I'm all the way in on him now. Uh, he's got a brother who committed to Nebraska Dayton Raiola and he looks like Jackson Mahomes. Are you serious in this one picture? He looks like Jackson Mahomes PFT. And now it's the funniest thing I've ever fucking seen. I'm all in on these guys that's

what i was wondering when he dropped the jackson mahomes i'm like fuck yes it's it went from this is weird to i'm all in yes i'm sorry for everything i've said if this guy can start doing it dating real can start doing tick tocks and looking more and more like jackson mahomes it is one of the funniest things that's going on the internet so I wonder if Dylan is making his brother participate in his fantasy world and telling him like how to dress you have to Look at this guy or if it's just natural it could definitely be That would be so funny. Yeah, I'm all the way in all the way in and then my cool throne is Don't let mr. Reola drive a car. That's all I'll say. Yes. That's true Dominic is his name he played in the NFL and he's uh, he was a fucking mean

Mean guy Play out player that is center My cool throws memes memes are on my cool turn because Rogers you see Roger on McAfee. He said that Hassan the report that there was chaos in the locker room for the Jets before the season was from Hassan Reddick's agent which now makes more sense so that was just never a true story Hassan Reddick's agent basically planted that to try to create chaos and there I

even saw there was a guy who said when it first came out he just a random Jets fan said shut up bitch. And then at Tory dandy, the guys the agent's name and then the agent blocked him right away. So that's not that's proven guilty in the court of the internet. So no problem. No son red X agent. No, no problem. Aaron Rodgers also might elite that ex-agent all he did that's what erin rogers said does uh... exactly what he said ex-agent he's just like probably he said former agent

also you might be back might be all the way back all your double cool throne so people think erin rogers might leak that and stuff's going on behind scenes but nobody's actually reported shout-out to uh... has sound red, because it sounds like he's a very loyal guy. Like his agent was costing him millions of dollars for not playing and he didn't fire him until right now. It feels like his agent was like, I know what we'll do. We'll say the locker room is bad and they'll give you all the money.

That'll be good. This will definitely work. A master plan. My genius plan. Okay, should we get to our interview? Great interview. Michael Silver in studio with his new book talking about football. Before we do that, the farmer's dog, the days are warmer, the walks are longer and one easy way to help your dog shine this season is with fresh, healthy food from the farmer's dog.

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Prime video this Thursday cowboys going up to MetLife Stadium Playing the Giants join Al Michaels Kirk Herbstree and Kaylee Hartung as these NFC East teams meet up coverage begins at 7 p.m Eastern with football's best party TNF Tonight Live from MetLife Stadium. Not a prime member, not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day risk free trial and you can cancel at any time. It is the Cowboys at the Giants 7 p.m. Eastern on Thursday Night Football and it's on prime video. Restrictions apply. See amazon.com slash Amazon Prime for details. All right, here he is. Michael Silver. Okay, we now welcome on a very special guest

in studio. It is accomplished NFL writer, Big J journalist, Mike Silver, Michael Silver, drinking buddy, drinking buddy. There's some questions we got to get to about Hugh Jackson. But let's talk about your new book, which is called The Why Is Everything A Story of Football Rivalry and Revolution. It's out on hardcover October 1. I'm going to buy it on Kindle. Just so you know, I just want to get that out there. I'm going to, I know it's a little cheaper on Kindle, but that's how I consume books. I just want to get that out there. I'm gonna I know it's a little cheaper on Kindle, but that's how I consume books I just wanted to let that out there. I think any way you want to consume Yeah, as you know as we established the first night we met Any consumption? Yeah, we're not judging. Yeah, so audio books. That's fine

Yeah, now can you say I read a book when you listen to the book? It's like saying it's like the reporter trick where you say I talked to Jared Goff, but really we texted. So sometimes I'll go, well, we've communicated or, you know, Jared Goff said, yes. But I think I talked to is kind of skewing it. So I think you just go, that book was great. I loved it. I enjoyed that book. All right. So the why is everything is the name of the book. So let's start with the why why did you decide to write this book? well, um

you know, there's You got a I'm old so Go back to me covering the 49ers as a young beat writer Mike Shanahan showed up as George Seifert's offensive coordinator, really trying to resurrect his career. What year was this? 1994? 1992.

And he'd been fired by Al Davis, and gloriously, after a couple years as a young head coach, he'd been fired by Dan Reeves in Denver and accused of insubordination. Basically, he and John Elway, Dan Reeves charged, had gone behind the head coach's back. It was kind of this big scandal. So he was a broken man. And meanwhile, Joe Montana hurts his elbow. Steve Young's there. And even though the rest of the country is like, God, this guy's an incredible quarterback,

everyone in San Francisco is like, he's not Joe. He runs too much. He doesn't read defenses. It's a mess. He literally won the passing title and fans would be like, get rid of him, he stinks. And Mike Shanahan kind of taught Steve Young that offense in a way that changed Steve Young's career, changed Mike Shanahan's career, and vaulted Mike Shanahan to the head coaching job in Denver where he took that Bill Walsh offense and did outside zone.

Now you have the modern Shanahan offense. So then we pick up in Washington and I've always been fascinated by that coaching staff in the early 2010s with Mike Shanahan and no one in football history is going to look back and go wow the early 2010 Redskins what an incredible run. We had 10 years or 10 weeks with RG3 that were pretty good. Thank you but but in the football community that's always been this mind-blowing thing what they did they took a guy who had no pro style experience or linked to it in RG three, they took their existing offense and morphed it into a pistol on the fly and caught everybody off guard. I mean, you

remember, you know, they gained a third of their passing yards that season on one play called drift where he like fakes a handoff, turns, kind of throws blindly over where the linebackers would be. But the linebackers have come up and he was the rookie of the year, not Andrew Luck, not Russell Wilson. It was revelatory. So yes, the dysfunction of the Redskins ultimately took that staff down and Mike Shanahan down But it was seismic and so the five people on the cover are Kyle Shanahan was the offensive coordinator and fellow assistant Sean McVeigh Matt LaFleur Mike McDaniel and Raheem Morris and obviously they are now all in very prominent positions

so that's the jumping-off point kind of but then you get all the petty and the rivalry and the dysfunction and the love occasionally. And I know all, you know, you know, these guys, I've known these guys for so long and I've been around it and been out drinking with them and heard all of their various idiosyncratic ways of looking at things, and I've just always felt like something's going on here. They're doing it a different way. What they did with RG3 to instead of just say, this is our system and we're going to run it, but just deconstruct and kind of think in an abstract way, really goes against the

tenets of old school meathead football, which really permeated the NFL for so long, which was we do it because it works. It's what Bill Walsh did. And why do we call it the flanker? I don't know. That's what Bill Walsh called it. So they ask why a lot, and then they want to be able to explain why to their players constantly.

So yeah, I mean, it's interesting because this book basically is why the NFL is the way it is today because it's, you know, whatever it is, a quarter, 15% of the head coaches all are part of this system and everything that's come off of it. And really more because Kevin O'Connell, Zach Taylor, Robert Sala, you know, I mean, you really could make a case it's like a third.

Yeah, the coaching tree is crazy. Tameka Ryan, although on the defensive side, but yeah. Tameka Ryan and Bobby Slauick. Bobby Slauick, he was on that staff too, wasn't he? He was. He was like Waldron. Yeah, he was. Bobby, Shane Waldron.

Yeah. Probably, you know, rough start for Shane Waldron this year, but I think he's, you know, I think he's a shrewd guy who will figure it out. Yeah. It does feel like NFL offense has changed so much that year and it rippled across the league, like you said. I don't think that we've had an offensive innovation that's been that pronounced since 2012. Have we? No. The innovation off that immediately was McVeigh kind of speeding it up and then going 11 personnel and using the receivers as blockers on the outside. But they've had to innovate from that.

And it really was a way of thinking though, that has now permeated the NFL more, which is instead of we have always done it this way, it's let's make everything, let's just deconstruct everything and be willing to innovate and be creative from a new starting out point and the willingness to do that is definitely new. Yeah, amongst these guys, let's get to some of the juicy stuff. Amongst these guys in this room, it seems like it was a very collaborative effort and they all root for each other. I know they've done podcasts together, they've done media together. At the time, were there any rivalries between these two or was it all just like, okay, let's

work towards this common goal? Well first of all, there's a chapter in there called Enemy Friends, which is how Raheem Morris describes Kyle and Sean and, you know, enemy first for a reason. Like they're friends, but like they definitely, you know, have's there's an edge to it. There was a big falling out with Kyle and Matt Lafleur that I get into that is an incredible story that is, you know, centered around that the drama leading into that draft the night of the draft when they took Trey Lance. One of the Zack Wilson to Trey Lance three anyway. Yeah. But yeah, you know, in Washington,

I kind of liken it to, like, you know, I'm a Northern Californian. Imagine like Silicon Valley in the early days and you've got, you know, Steve Jobs and Andy Grove and all these visionaries at one company, young, kind of hustling, all rushing, Hey, what if what if we try this? Nah, I got this idea, where it was encouraged to make these suggestions that they'd kind of all run to Kyle Shanahan, and he'd decide what to use

and what not to use. So there was a it was a collaboration and kind of a healthy competition back then. It's it's fascinating fascinating because these are always, just going back to coaching staffs when you had, I think the other one is the Packers in the 90s when they had what Groot and Andy Reid and all these guys on the staff. Yeah, Andy Reid.

And just going back in these time capsules along the NFL and you look at these coaching staffs, you're like, holy shit. They had this type of brain power that then goes out and spreads everywhere in the NFL. So my curiosity about how we've evolved in the NFL is why did it take so long for everyone else to kind of catch up and be like, hey, these guys are really smart. Is it just an organization failure across the league where it's like, we want to do the thing that's always been done. And now this new age shit is kind of scary. It feels like we're there now where everyone's starting to think outside the box, but that

there's a little bit of tension that goes along with anything new. Yeah. And they have flaws, right? Like Kyle Shanahan has a very brusque style that wasn't very conducive to bonding with players. He's gotten a lot better. And so they were very sure of themselves and sure they were right and didn't really like, you know, hiding that. So that could be cool if it's working, but the other element of this, and I know Eric will be excited, but the dysfunction seemed to find them, right?

Right. Like, you had them all at Washington. Well, enough said, right? Yeah. Dan Snyder, etc. Then Kyle goes to Cleveland, you know, talk about our Hugh Jackson association, a lot of people have gotten caught up in that hellhole. He famously fought his way out after a year. Remember, that was the Ray Farmer texting scandal. The general manager was texting assistant coach Dowell Loggins to tell Kyle, among other

things, you should play Johnny Menzel, right? So Kyle had Mike McDaniel write up a 32-point memo of reasons he should be let out of his contract. And it ultimately worked. Holy shit. And so then he goes to Atlanta, and after that first year with Matt Ryan in Atlanta, there's a question about whether

he's gonna get fired by the Falcons. They end up having this summit meeting in Southern California, which is described in the book. And it's been called, Matt LaFleur called it our kumbaya sessions. Somebody called it marriage counseling. But basically, they're gathering at Tom House

and Adam Dado's place. And who's gathering? This is Matt Ryan, Kyle Shanahan, who are the two guys who need to work stuff out, Dan Quinn and Matt LaFleur, the quarterback coach, with these two quarterback gurus, Tom House and Adam Dado, that Matt Ryan's working out with. And famously, a few things were said but at one point Tom house is trying to describe Matt LaFleur's role as getting caught in the middle between Kyle Shanahan and Matt Ryan and he says Matt you're the taint

Yeah, no one wants to be the taint yeah Yeah, it's that's fascinating though like that that tension that works and then and then you get success out of it because Like having having that meeting they get to the Super Bowl Obviously, they were up 25 and super hard to do where the hard to do. It's hard to be up 25 winning the Super Bowl I heard you can say that Dan Quinn is a Super Bowl winning head coach. He was winning by 25. I heard it was 28 to three. Yeah. Yeah. And they and they and Matt Ryan wins an MVP and that kind of launches Kyle Shanahan and then Matt LaFleur. Right? So that that that meeting obviously worked. It really did. And so yes, eventually they have all ascended. And now they just fight it out amongst each other

and try to keep their prodigies. Look what the Saints are doing. That's a Kubiak. That's another part of the tree as well. But in Washington, that RG3 year, even amid the rest of the league being kind of blown away and defense is not being able to stop it. Even so you'll remember the the Cleveland game that year. Yep. Our cousins. Our G3 gets hurt and now Kirk Cousins who they'd also drafted that year which was the Kyle Shanahan you know favored pick

has got to play in Cleveland and they run a more traditional Shad of Hat offense game plan with a lot of boots, you know, the fake handoff and the rollout and Kirk Cousins goes wild in that game and they win. So now here's the postgame scene. Dan Snyder barrels through the locker room, goes right past Kirk Cousins, who is having this glorious moment, almost steps on him to get to Robert Griffin and say, hey, don't worry, it's okay, you're still my guy. And Kirk is just standing there. It's super awkward. While this is happening, RG2, Robert's father, who was very involved, has managed to somehow get in the locker room and he's all over Mike Shanahan Man, why did you call any running plays and Mike's like?

He can run on those boots. He just chose to throw out we want to run those plays with Robert and Robert comes back too early probably because he's threatened by that all in for year two I remember that. Yeah. And so it gets, you know, we all, I think, you know, that playoff game where he ends up tearing up the knee and that's the beginning of the end was horrible. But in most people's minds, well, he'll get surgery and they'll come back and they'll build on this and it'll be amazing.

There's a scene in the book where Mike Shanahan at the end of that season, because of how he feels about Robert, because he thinks Dan Snyder is so invested in believing that Robert's really a pocket passer and we're going to change him and we're going to show and he's my guy. Mike Shanahan ends up recommending to Dan Snyder, Bruce Allen, the GM and the other owners, we should trade Robert now. We know he's not really what people think he is. The league's going to catch up and it's not going to work out the way you think. His value is amazing. We might get back the three ones we gave up and we can play with Kirk. Mike Shanahan has it all figured out. He's like, this is the best idea ever. It did not go over well.

In retrospect, that would have been a good play. That would have gotten a lot of people on their ass if they'd done that. It seems insane to actually do something like that after you win rookie of the year though It would have been viewed as insane including in fairness even by me, right? Yeah, you know, but but those are the type of moves to really where you're thinking ahead We're like a Belichick was the famous for it like get get rid of guys a year early except the instead of a year late And stay ahead of the curve. Here's another weird thing. Peyton Manning was free before that 2012 season,

coming off the neck surgeries, and Mike Shanahan absolutely had interest, and Peyton was gonna be in Denver anyway, meeting with the Broncos, so they set up a meeting at Mike Shanahan's house with Mike and Kyle. And Kyle, who is a football nerd and thinks Peyton is the all-time best at the line of scrimmage, the general, he's so fired up. So Mike Shanahan flies to the Bahamas to meet

with Dan Snyder, presumably on his very small boat. I'm sure it's tiny. So they're off on the boat. Kyle's in his office prepping for his meeting with Peyton Matting. He's so excited. They both get in the air. Mike is flying to Denver from the Bahamas. Kyle is flying from Dulles. While they're in the air, and this is pretty good Wi-Fi, Bruce Allen at Dan Snyder's behest trades with the Rams way before the draft for all those picks. So now we know they're picking RG3. So Kyle Lanz finds out about it. He's like, oh, well, there's obviously no meeting. And Mike says, no, no, no, we could still get Peyton Roberts for the future. And so Kyle preps Peyton comes to the house he and Kyle watch film for a couple hours. They're totally vibing. Like this. It's the

greatest meeting ever. Kyle's so fired up. Peyton leaves and Kyle says dad, do you really think we still have a chance to get him and Michael's now like we're drafting Robert. Yeah. So he just let Kyle down easy. Yeah. and so yeah history could have been way different So many sliding doors moments for my happiness that we're going over right now Yeah, it could have been so different and then though and then the funny thing is, you know, 2013 is one of the all-time Dysfunction Junction seasons that was my first season at an NFL Network And I was doing Thursday nights at halftime and then game day morning

with Ian Rapaport. We're all, you know, we're doing, uh, I was being like his Mort, may he rest in peace for his Adam. And, uh, we were all over the redskin dysfunction. And I remember laughing. I'm like, Dan Snyder's used to dealing with like Jim Zord. He has no idea about the Mike Shanahan, you know, ability to navigate this feud. And so he ends up getting fired

and Mike goes in for his exit meeting with the other owners. And he says, okay, I'm gonna give you guys some advice, take it or leave it. You need to trade Kirk Cousins. And they're like, huh? And he goes, there's no coach who's gonna come in here some advice, take it or leave it. You need to trade Kirk Cousins. And they're like, huh? And he goes, there's no coach who's going to come in here and believe ultimately that

Robert is better than Kirk Cousins. So trade them. Yeah, because it's going to be an issue. It's going to be a problem. Yeah, that's fascinating. So are you, are you surprised that Mike Shanahan never got another job? Because he does, it does feel like he's such an innovator and such an accomplished coach that You'd think a team would want him. I remember even I think it was 2015 16 15 or 16 when the Bears hired John Fox Oh was he was a name that was being thrown around and it's like why is this guy? Who knows so much about football who has all this this incredible resume, why has he not gotten another job?

Yeah, I agree with you. He did talk to the Raiders of all teams at one point post-al and the Niners. He should be in the Hall of Fame right now. There's no question. I hope this book helps make that case. He... There is something at 49 or headquarters referred to as the Shana cam, which basically means Mike Shanahan needs to watch meetings and practice ASAP, virtually. That's awesome. So he's some people think he's the shadow GM. I think that's an

exaggeration. But this is incredible. So because I was doing this book, full force, I spent a bunch of time with him in May and June of 2022. And so in those conversations, I would ask about Trey Lance, of course, and Jimmy, and he kept talking about Brock Purdy because he'd seen some mini camp tape. And I was like, God, he's kind of weirdly into Brock Purdy, but you know, whatever. He's the 260 second pick. Now they open against the bears.

It's Trey Lance's first game as the unquestioned starter. The day before I go to Mike Shanahan's room and, uh, I'm sitting up there and I'm asking him about Trey Lance and he again brings up Purdy and he says, when you have a guy like that in your building, you don't let him out. And I'm like, are we talking about, you know, thinking and you know, so he's still got it. Yeah, this is why I'm saying like, how is he not like the Brock Purdy is some is a guy who it took. It took him going to a Super Bowl for everyone to be like, okay, maybe he's actually really good. Mike Shanahan before even takes a snap, the NFL is like, this guy is going to be like, okay, maybe he's actually really good. Mike Shanahan before even takes a snap the NFL is like, this guy is going to be good. And in fairness, even Kyle, who's great at this, didn't really know he was what he was.

They obviously, I don't know if Mike thought all this before the draft to this degree. But when I was seeing him, he'd seen a few of the OTA tapes. Yeah, he was just like, I don't know. And then, you know, meeting the kid, he's just, you know, for all the, he looks like he's going to class at Iowa state, right? The backpack is out and he's very polite and very personable. I don't know if you guys have met him yet. We haven't. Yeah. I think, I think you'll really like him. Uh, but he's a, he's a stone cold killer too. That's fascinating. So why hasn't a team hired Mike Shannon as a GM? I think that's also, I, I, I think if, you know,

I I'm in the rare position where I have receipts, I have this tape. He's talking about Brock Purdy in June of 2022. Like he's, you know, an elite NFL starting quarterback. It also sounds like, I mean, his son's the head coach. It'd be hard to hire him as a GM for another team. Like the 49ers essentially got just a great asset that's going to work for free for him. What if like the Harbaugh's, you know, like and the Shanahan's somehow, you know, all got crossed up?

I think the Harbaugh's would murder them. If there was like an actual like family rivalry. Yeah. I'd take Jim Harbaugh over any of those guys Yeah, yeah, I think I you know, it would be hard for me to imagine a Less tense atmosphere. Yeah than a Harbaugh family versus any other family Yeah competition in anything true alphas. Yeah, so you you spent a of time around the league. I know that you were you were around New Orleans. You knew what was

going on during Bounty Gate and I feel like that's something that we don't talk about enough anymore. It's kind of been, hasn't been forgotten but we don't talk about it as much as we used to besides the the Kevin James movie. So what was your knowledge of Bounty Gate as it happened and how it came out and all that aftermath? Well I did get caught up in it and it's funny because this story is gonna ultimately lead to Jeff Fisher who I know we share We love yes, and and before I was too Close to Hugh Jackson. I was also too close to Jeff Fisher Okay, who also got turned into a cartoon character by America. And so it's 2012. Greg Williams has already

left to go to the Rams as the St. Louis Rams as their new defensive coordinator, a couple years removed from the Super Bowl. Sean Payton has been suspended along with Greg Williams and others because the NFL has decided that they have evidence that the Saints allegedly, I would say allegedly based on the evidence now, you know, we're paying players explicitly to injure opponents. And this is as the concussion lawsuits going on and the NFL is looking for a way desperately to say, man, we care about health and safety. They had some other issues with Sean Payton, great stories that don't have to do with that.

So it was already weird. It's also Tom Benson. I think you could do that to Tom Benson easier than you could do it to Robert Kraft or Jones. Easy owner to pick on. So Sean Payton gets suspended for a year. While this is all going on, I learn of the existence of this audio tape that documentary filmmaker Sean Pamphalon had in his possession. He was working at the time with Steve Gleason on what ultimately became a documentary because he'd been diagnosed with ALS, a former Saints player.

Steve Gleason was a guest of the team in this meeting before a playoff game against the 49ers in 2011, 2011 season. And Greg Williams is caught on audio tape saying things like, kill the head and the body will die. And Greg Williams is one of those guys that if you take him literally, I relate. If you take him literally, it doesn't go well. He's very over the top. He says things for effect. But he did seem to, according to Pam Falad, be literal in that he made the money sign with his hands at one point like, I got the first one, meaning I'll pay that fine, which will cross the line. So it was the smoking gun the NFL felt it needed to show the world, see, this

is out of control in New Orleans. I get ready to write this blockbuster story for Yahoo Sports. Unfortunately, I had just finished with Jeff Fisher in Indy at the Combine asking and receiving permission to be in the Rams war room in the upcoming draft which is a big get you know for Yahoo and yeah and I'm all excited and now Jeff Fisher's defensive coordinator is gonna be even more you more disciplined because there was a chance that

suspension was going to get reduced. I'll never forget. So when Jeff called me back, I had to tell him what was going on. He just goes, how bad? And I go, well, given that it's Greg, it's about as bad as you can imagine. So at that point, I just assumed that if not Jeff, his owner or somebody would say to him, we're not letting that guy in our draft room. He just ruined our life even more. But amazingly, Jeff calls and says, when are you coming out? He said, why don't we have dinner the night before? So now we're outdoors in Clayton, Missouri, having dinner, drinking wine.

He's telling me about what they're going to try to do in the draft. By the way, that was the Michael Brockers, Brian Quick draft where they got too cute. I was there, wanted Bobby Wagner, but thought, let's get him with the second of our two picks in this round because we want to get Isaiah Pied, the immortal running back, and then lost Bobby Wagner to the Seahawks. So Jeff says to me with a twinkle in his eye, you know, I want you in the room, but I also want you to have a workstation and for times where we really need to have a sensitive conversation to kick you out. I do have a vacant office and literally I set up shop for three days in Greg Williams vacant office

Somehow after breaking the kill the head body. Oh my god. We're gonna get back to Michael silver in a second He's brought to you by blue chew You can have better sex with blue chew blue chew is the original brand offering chewable tablets These erection enhancing tablets help men achieve stronger, harder, and longer lasting erections for sexual activities. And it's all done from the comfort of home. With Bluetooth, say goodbye to performance anxiety, say hello to stronger, longer lasting erections. These chewable tablets have the same active ingredients that you'd find in Viagra, Cialis, and Levitra, but in chewable form and at a fraction of the cost. Bluetooth is all about having confidence when it comes time to perform and having healthy,

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So back to Bounty Gate though, the smoking gun that you said. In a team meeting, he said, kill the head, the snake will die, or whatever, the body will die. And then he says, I got the first one. Does the money sign, implying I'll pay for your fine if you hit the quarterback too hard? Yes. I think almost every defensive coordinator around the league

has said and done stuff like that in meetings, at least at the time. Maybe they've been more careful since then. So what was it about Greg Williams in particular that made the NFL target the Saints? I think it was Sean Payton. There had been another scandal that had quietly gone away because of the arbitration clause that kept it from being public. But there was a scandal that involved missing pills at the Saints facility, Vicodin I believe, if I'm not mistaken, but there were a lot of pills missing and there was some word or accusation that Sean Payton had been involved in that and trying to cover that up. I think there was a general feeling that Roger Goodell believed these guys are out of control.

And Sean, who I love, was Bill Parcell's trained, so there was the secrecy and the How you know was built ourselves trained so there was the secrecy and the kind of the weirdness in general Again, it was Tom Benson someone you could make an example of there was another incident during one of the London games at Wembley where they did a walk through the day before and The security people told Sean Payton you're gonna you guys are gonna come out before the game And you guys are gonna go through this tunnel." And you know how NFL coaches are like, it's gospel. That is the tunnel. We were told. And on game day, when they tried to go through the assigned tunnel, it had been changed and

they really wanted Sean to go a different way and he didn't want to. And I believe the story goes that he just kind of pushed through a security official may have been a British security official. Um, you know, not like he beat him up, but it got a little physical. Yeah. And that got back to Roger. And I think that was another instance where he was like this guy. Um, so again, um, it's disturbing to me in that they did a, you know, they kind of did a Mueller report independent commission thing, you know, to try to prove that they had it.

And they use Paul Tagliabue, of all people, the former commissioner who was a lawyer, and the report was not real, you know, friendly to the NFL. It was kind of like, eh, there's this audio from a game where somebody, was it Bobby McCrary, somebody allegedly says, give me my money, Bobby. It's not really clear that that's exactly what he said. It was flimsy evidence at best. Or that he said it. Yeah, it was witch hunt. If you're a Saints fan, you go, they had it out for our team.

And again, there were some other reasons that might have been true. If you're a cynic like me, who then went to work for the NFL, but if you're a cynic like me, you say, they were looking at an existential threat with the head trauma, which they were culpable for. They had beat their chest and show the world, we care about players' safety. Let's do 17 games, but we care about players' safety. That's for sure.

17. Yeah, let's play in random stadiums across the world that are not good playing surfaces. Yeah, right. We don't care about safety. Oh, World Cup we're hosting? FIFA needs grass? Yeah.

Oh, yes, FIFA. Yeah, right. We'll change it to grass. Right. Oh, NFL guys need, FIFA needs grass. Yeah. Oh, yes. FIFA. Yeah. Change it to grass. Right. Oh, uh, NFL guys think now, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. So you were talking about that Rams war room. I don't think about this guy at all, but it sounds like, uh, that's the same draft that they drafted Michael Sam. No, I, I actually repeatedly got in the Rams war room, uh, because, you know, I was a friend of the code. You're such a good guest. Yeah, it was a good. So now at NFL Network, NFL.com. I was there the year they took Michael Sam. So they had two picks at the end of the seventh round. And so Michael Sam had been the SEC defensive player of the year. So to a

casual fan or to someone like me, even it was like, well, that guy's gonna get drafted. Right. He's the, you know, he's that edge rusher who, you know, was the player, defensive player of the year in the best conference. Um, but Scouts didn't love them, um, for football reasons. And so he was also openly gay. The NFL had never had an openly gay player and things have changed a lot, but at the time that felt super heavy. So Jeff Fisher I is on the phone as Their picks are coming in the seventh route and he kind of looks a little serious that he hags up

But he stands up and the Rams have one of those war rooms that Everybody's in like the Patriots. It would be like Bill Belichick, Scott Piolli, and only two other people. Maybe we'll let the running backs coach come in for five minutes. The Rams are like, it's the scouts, it's ownership, it's all the front office people and me. Jeff tells the room with pick 240 whatever, we are taking Michael, Sam from Missouri. And people kind of get chills because it's history. And at that point, you're pretty far ahead of the telecast. So we have a few minutes to kind of be the only ones who know, like, this is going to

be cool and it's historic. And we're waiting and waiting. And the pick gets officially turned in. So now we know it's happening for sure. We're waiting and waiting. And then the pick is made. And it's kind of like everybody's just kind of look at each other like, we were there.

It's pretty cool. Right. Well, then they had cameras on Michael Sam at his house. I don't know if you remember this. But Michael and his boyfriend at the time, I think his name was Vito, celebrated the moment, and there was like a cake, smushing face, licking off of fingers situation going on.

And it definitely changed the vibe in the Ram War Room, not judging in like a homophobic way as as just a, yeah, that's not very football. Right. It just kind of freaked people out. And I don't want to, I'm not even sure of the person who said it and I don't want to ID him. But one person broke the tension by saying something of the effect of, damn, usually you got to be in

the league a minute before you start getting the white bitches. Oh man. All right. So I got a big football question for you. Someone once told me and it's stuck with me ever since that in the NFL, there are a handful of teams that are actively trying to win a Super Bowl, organizations that are actively trying to win a Super Bowl, doing the right things, investing in the team. And then there's like 20 organizations that are basically are saying, Hey, if we catch lightning in a bottle, cool, but otherwise we're just going to print money. Is that a fair accurate thing to say?

Yeah, and it's been a thing. And so it's weird, because for all my lefty Berkeley, you know, grateful debt, all my heritage, I'm super free market on the NFL, like I'm Adam Smith, right. And I used to call these old owners, pull it barrel bosses, because they would take the sit stand in their bread bread line and they would take their guaranteed TV revenue, which guarantees you a profit. And the NFL has like a lot of communist like sensibilities, where she'll be first, the draft, the schedule, uh, the salary cap, they control costs, they share all the revenue. And so there was not a lot of incentive back in the day to market. And the bears are traditionally under-marketed.

Yes. The Chicago Bears. Yeah. The Raiders just were like, why would we market? Where are the Raiders? Right. The Bengals still don't. And so Eddie DiBartolo, Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft ended up being the new guard of owners

who got it a lot more entrepreneurial and started hustling. And, you know, there was this famous owner meeting where Jerry Jones says to Mike Brown, you know, I'm so touched that you want to name your stadium after your late father. That's really awesome. But because you won't take a naming rights deal, I have to subsidize you on this revenue sharing thing. And so I tend to be on the side of those more aggressive owners. So yes, you would think in such a highly competitive industry, everyone wants to win desperately. There's some guys who want to win desperately, but they don't know how and they sabotage, like Dan Snyder, David Tepper, right?

But then there's some people who are just like, acting like they want to win, because every once in a while they will. Yeah, they get, they catch, oh, we got lucky with this quarterback or this random year happened. And then we'll just have everyone live off that for the next 10, 20 years. Right, so if you're a fan, you want your owner to,

and I did owner rankings at si.com and yahoo.com for years and years. And what I really valued the most was aggressive pursuit of revenue and aggressive spending to try to get wins. And so Dan Snyder having players on his helicopter is well intentioned, but it screws the authority of the coach and messes it up. But you know, if you have the best facilities, if you pay your assistant coaches well, if you are scouting department, all

those things where it's like there's, there just seems to be a lot of organizations and I'm probably speaking about my, the team I root for here very much. So where it's, it's frustrating knowing the further we've gotten into this job, the more we've seen it. It's frustrating to know that a lot of these organizations just don't give a fuck and they just, they, they honestly are fine. You know, every five years ripping off 10 wins and being like that was cool I don't believe that there is a more

under-marketed entity in American Commerce than the Chicago Bears I mean the Chicago Bears and I don't know if people know like in this city the Bulls had that yeah But it's a football town comes withs had that yeah but it's a football town cubs are the cubs but it's a football town it is and and when the Bears it you know in 85 and like that was it was just it it engulfed everything and they've been living off it since yeah you know and it's that lightning in a bottle where it's like hey we we aren't going to do all the steps we'll do a

couple of steps here and there and if we're good for a couple of years, oh, awesome. But then it never is sustainable. The sustainable greatness of some of these organizations, because yeah, okay, the Cowboys have not won a Super Bowl since the 90s. They've still been in the mix pretty much every year. So, and it's hard to win championships, but being in the mix and actively trying to win

playoff games matters. I've been a Jerry, ride or die for so long, but I'm starting to wonder now, like I know he's always told me, this is all I care about. I just want to win. But like his actions the last few years, you know, he could have got Sean Payton. Well, this is the weird part.

We talk about this a lot on the show, about Jerry Jones, because of how he dealt with his coaches in the nineties, we think he's one way. He kept Jason Garrett for way too long. So he actually is weirdly one of those way too loyal. I don't want to change guys. Yeah. Or I don't want to pay guys. But we think about the 90s and we think about Jimmy Johnson. We're like, Oh, he'll get rid of a guy in a second if he has a problem. I mean, I feel like there've been two inflection points that he could have had Sean Payton and he knows Yeah, he knows Sean Payton would have you know in his mind would have been the guy He didn't do it and then is there anyone on earth that you know with respect to Mike McCarthy

who's done a lot of good things in this league after the First quarter and a half of that playoff game against the Packers Is there anyone reasonable on earth who would have been like, man, Jerry Jones fired Mike McCarthy and tried to get Mike Vrabel or Bill Belichick. Like no one would have said, wow, Jerry Jones is too raps. Yeah, he didn't give enough time, yeah, right. That would have made perfect sense.

So why do you think that is? Why do you think that Jerry chose to remain loyal to McCarthy, especially like when you say the name Belichick, Belichick being out there seems like it would have been the ultimate Jerry Jones move. Correct. So why do you think he remained loyal to him? It's a great question. I need to have a longer conversation with Jerry, preferably with him buying the red

wine, which he tends to do. And he's, he has a little bit more fleshed out taste than I do. But it just makes me think that he has changed. Because the Jerry I've always known and defended on this, of course, but you're right. You're right in the Jason Garrett thing. He let that go a long time. Way too long. And Wade.

Yeah, and Wade, yeah. Right, so he kind of has become one of those owners that's like, I like what I like, and I'm not going to rock. And also I don't want to pay. Right. And I always have said to Jerry, you do better with powerful coaches. Everyone thinks Jerry wants to walk all over people, but the best, even Switzer had some juice. Jimmy, Barry, and Parcells, which was a total clash. I have a great story on that one. But Jerry did better when strong people were in charge. There's a story where, you know how Parcells was, you know, wanted to run everything. And the Cowboys are flying out to play the Patriots, and they're

staying either in Providence or closer to Providence than Boston. And so, of course, the assumption is the plane is flying to Providence, and the buses will be there and they'll go to the hotel. And late in the flight, it becomes clear to Parcells that they're going to Boston, which makes no logistical sense until he learns that the Joneses have dinner plans with the Crafts and they don't want to go from Providence. They're not taking a bus. So the plane's going to land in Boston. And Bill, who cared a lot about such things, went up and kind of let Jerry have it.

And Jerry smiled and said, I think the quote was, well, Bill, when you buy your own team, you can have the plane go where you want it to go. I love it. There is a certain type of billionaire. And I think that there are owners of the NFL that are definitely doing things the right way. But those middling franchises and some of the bad ones, there are some owners that are, they're super competitive, but that doesn't translate to what they actually, the steps that you have to take to winning football

games. They take more pleasure in like the petty stuff, like, like getting small victories over the other owners. Like if they find there's another owner that really likes this coffee shop, they're going to do everything they can to like have that coffee shop next to their house closed down. Billionaires are absolutely petty as we've seen. I'm, you know, guys, I'm thinking I might, you know, I let go of owner rankings because they hired me. Yeah. I'd like to see it. Yeah.

Should we bring it back? Yeah. I would love to see it. Yeah. Because it is fascinating and it also is a really good, from a fan perspective, it's a really good way to see where you land. I got the greatest feedback because there were people in Buffalo who said, if you come to the city, I will fight you in defense of Ralph Wilson. I'm like, really? Yeah.

That's why you're going to fight me? But the best were, you ranked Bill Bidwell number 30 in your owner rankings. I defy you to name two owners that are better or that are worse than bill bid well. There's no way he shouldn't be 32. Yeah. But yeah, lots of arguments and these are good things. Like it's like the blind poll that has started, you know, about the facilities. It shines light on it where teams are being, that's kind of an ownership ranking in its own right where it's like, Hey, here's where they're cheaping out. That's good stuff. And should know if their owner is not doing everything to win. Yes. And what I liked is that I got very personal and punitive. And so these people are not

used to being criticized. It's one thing if I, you know, Kyle Shanahan is going to read stuff in this book and want to strangle me perhaps, but Kyle Shanahan is used to, as am I and you, and you, we're all used to being kind of criticized, you know, brutally. So I think we tend to be able to filter that. But like, I don't think like, you know, Mike Brown was used to that. Who, by the way, has done ownership rights to naming rights. Well, he's done naming rights to his stadium because he had to pay Joe Burrow. I will give this to Mike Brown.

Everyone else would have fired Zach Taylor after year two and because he's cheap or has a philosophy. He got lucky because he's cheap. But in that case, they got to the Super Bowl and almost won it. Yeah. Sometimes not firing a coach is the best thing that you can do. Correct. Back to that you can do. Correct. Back to that Washington DC stuff.

Yeah. So, if you were to do your ownership power rankings right now, do you know who the top five would be? That's a great question. I should have prepped on that. I think that I am a big believer that the crafts are great owners know, they're in a weird kind of position. I'm heartened by the way the Patriots are playing actually Yeah, yeah, they're playing harder than I thought and you know, it looks kind of cooler so far but yeah, I'd have to I'd really have to

Deconstruct and take a look because in most of them the crafts and the Joneses were kind of right there Jeffrey Lurie at the time Jeffrey Lurie would be very, very high. Green Bay. Yeah, 30,000 guys. Yeah, Green Bay's weird because they're going to change CEOs coming up, so that's interesting. With the Hunts? Or they just got lucky because they got Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid? Because the blind poll is very interesting that the facilities there-

Murders them. Gets killed and you're like, dude, you're Patrick Patrick Mahomes You should do whatever he wants to make his life great My favorite story with the hunts was I'm out with Derek Thomas the late great Hall of Fame edge rusher who Was one of the great? social animals in NFL history in an era where it was different and we didn't have cell phone cameras. And you know, I also, they didn't have to stay in hotels the night before home games. Marty Schottheimer didn't make them. So we even had some Saturday nights. Watch the Tupac Bruce Seldin fight at his house the night before a game, not Tupac,

excuse me, the Mike Tyson, Bruce Seldon fight the night Tupac was shot at his house with one of my buddies, one of his buddies, and Kid from Kid and Play of House Party fame who was on fire with the commentary. But Derek and I, early on, he was this big JFK early on, he was this big JFK conspiracy buff, and it stemmed because his father had been a fighter pilot who was shot down in Vietnam and killed. And so Derek's whole belief was that the war continued because JFK was assassinated to continue the Vietnam War, leading to the death of my father.

And so he was very, very down the rabbit hole on that. And he started talking about some of the theories publicly, and I finally went and researched it, and I'm like, Lamar Hunt, your owner, is like one of the people in this theory that would be like one of the people who put out the hit. Is that a little awkward? So we started having that conversation.

That's awkward because I've seen owner player stuff go really bad, like T.O. with the push-ups and all that, but that's a different level. You might've indirectly killed my father. Yeah, and the president. Yeah, and the president. That's wild. So I also heard that you've, speaking of guys that you've spent a lot of time with, where they benefit from not having camera phones around.

You hung out with Dennis Rodman in Vegas. Well, I did a book with him. So there was this Sports Illustrated story. I got there in 1994, and in May of 95, when he was still with the Spurs, they were in a playoff series with the Lakers, I got sent down to LA and a four-day, three-night, three-state bender ensued. It was amazing. I turned it into this cover story where he's got the bird on his shoulder and the metallic hot pass this iconic

SI cover that I wrote in real time at his house in San Antonio as he engaged in activities with a stripper. While the birds were all there were these wild birds squawking. So there was a lot of noise. And I did manage to focus and write this story. But yeah, I spent a lot of time with Dennis here, but that first night in LA when we went out, they eliminated the Lakers. I met him during the day at the shoot around. Wasn't clear we were going to do anything.

They eliminated the Lakers. He immediately walked off the court and told me, let's go. We ended up at a club in West Hollywood with some celebrities. I'm 29, he's 34. And I'm like, well, I could drink with any 34 year old. I mean, I could drink. Yeah, we know. So I was pouring out shots under the table like soon after it was Goldschlager and Jägermeister. And he drank me out of the table. But at one point, he took me outside and he started to talk about a lot of things, including Madonna, who was the most famous woman

of the world, and he had been dating. And he said very openly, you know, she wanted to have my baby. The quote, I think, was, she has ways of making you feel like King Tut. And so this, you know, Rodman was basically as we went to San Antonio, then Vegas, then tried to go to Phoenix to watch Game 7 of the other series, Quartz Side, but that got derailed. We ended up back in San Antonio. And as all this is happening, I was just going to go home straight from Vegas. I had so much good stuff and I was going to fly to Oakland. So we're having this kind of emotional goodbye at the airport. And he looks at me as I'm walking away and he goes, bro, what are you doing? This is the great, like I'm giving

you the great, like stay with me. And he was right. And so I just turned around and went to his gate and talked my way out of that plane and went back to Texas. And this before cell phones were really reliable and I had told my wife, hey, I'm coming home. So when we got to Texas, I had to call her as Dennis and I were walking to his truck. And can you imagine the voice I was using? Like, so honey, I'm in Texas, I get off the phone and he go, Oh bro, who wears the

pants in this family? Okay. Well, story comes out. Uh, no story doesn't come out. Story gets filed. I fly home. They open against the rockets Monday. Uh, in San Antonio, I believe. Maybe in Houston, and no, it was in San Antonio, and I'm still exhausted. The story's been fact checked. It's not coming out till Wednesday, but it closes Monday night. And I'm just getting ready to watch the game,

and I get a call like an hour and 15 minutes before the game, and he's like, bro. And I'm like, what are you doing 15 minutes before the game. He's like, bro. And I'm like, what are you doing? Are you at the arena? No, I'm at home. And he goes, you got to do something for me. And I go, what? He goes, bro, you got to take that Madonna shit out of there. And I go, who wears the pants? Oh, that's beautiful. And then literally he had me, he way called. And he was gonna have me talk to Madonna and explain to her that he really, you know, he also said some nice things.

Yeah, she's gonna she's gonna kill me. So I'm laughing. And it goes to answering machine, not voicemail answering machine. And you know, it's like hey, it's M I'm not here leave a message and then here's me, you know Leaving a message for Madonna. Oh my god. Don't be too bad Madonna. That's incredible. That's a great touching moment, though You're about to give up on the party and go home and Dennis from it's like come on man. Yeah Yeah, party's me one more night. Let's yeah. Yeah, it was really touching because on the flight. He says to me I Let's yeah, it was really touching because on the flight. He says to me I So, what are you doing after this, you know after this story and I said they actually have me doing this NASCAR thing it was this weird black and white NASCAR cover story and He goes this he goes

Well, they ain't gonna be like this and I go now and he goes it's never gonna be like this He was right. Yeah, and I kind of I kind of it's never gonna be like this. And he was right and I kind of knew. Yeah you've always been chasing that. I mean I was on the balcony with John Elway at his hotel after his last game. He won Super Bowl MVP. He's got a cigar in one hand and a beer in the other and he's telling me everything and I write that story

for Sports Illustrated all night. I've had moments where I'm like this is real but it was never like that. Yeah. Yeah so what about fact checking when it comes to going out and partying with Dennis Rodman? How do you remember all the quotes and stuff that you're getting over the course of the night? Because they do trust it and you are a fun guy to hang out with. Yeah. It's such a great question because how we were classically trained journalism, capital J, a lot of things, by the way, don't be the story, don't inject yourself. I'm like, I'm too arrogant for that.

But, you know, SI we had time, it was due, you know, nine a.m., Monday morning usually, or sometimes nine a.m., Sunday morning. So you could deconstruct and go back and check it, but there are a lot of fine lines. Interestingly, doing the book with Rodman, I did back-to-back books with Rodman, I did back to back books with Rodman and Kurt Warner, very different books and experiences, but doing the book with Rodman

was wild because his thing was you have to come here and rage and get in my orbit and after like an undetermined amount of time, we'd be on twin treadmills at the Birdo Center and it'd be like, take out that tape recorder. And then it would be amazing. But my wife would be like, how long are you going to be gone? And I'd be like, I just don't know. Yeah, right. I might get kidnapped. It's a fair question for her to ask you too, if you're writing a story and you're typing it as Dennis Rodman's having sex while there's a bird. Yeah. But he was amazing.

The book came out and we had gone out in Chicago to a place called Manhole. Manhole suggests that it would be a bar frequented by dudes who are into dudes, which is what it was. But one of the people, in fact, big screen TV of hardcore porn with dude on dudes at the bar, but there was a friend of his called Mimi that went out with us who was a voluptuous Marilyn Monroe look alike with a sultry voice who had been named Michael and was in some form of transition

right undetermined but was Mimi. And in some form of transition, undetermined, but was Mimi. And in the book as Dennis, I talked about Mimi and I said, I had been with Mimi a few times innocently, meaning I'd been out with Mimi. But he goes out Howard Stern and Stern's go and he's like, you've been with Mimi and Dennis just went with it. He just goes, a lot of people been with transsexual just went with it he just goes a lot of people

been with transsexual bro they just don't realize incredible well Mike this has been awesome the book the why is everything a story of football rivalry and revolution buy it on Amazon I have one last question row back question RH OBS K calm promo code take 20% off your first purchase. Q-zips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts. I have to ask Grateful Dead question. How many shows have you been to? I know we've talked about it privately. How many shows have you been to total? Well, we're only counting Jerry Grateful Dead. Yes. Because I went to Jerry Band and King Fish and obviously anything since 95 doesn't count.

Right. We did it, my buddy and I, I think it's 60. Um, they were in, you know, I went to Cal from gone to Moore. Yeah. But we also knew, and I think, you know, I wonder the same, like, we knew in that moment, we're seeing, you know, not just history, but that Jerry, it was just a different thing that was going on. How many did you get to? Well, I mean, I've never, I'm too young to have gone to True Grateful Dead.

Yes. Because I'm 39. Oh, yeah. I've been to every iteration basically since Phil Lesh and Friends in the early 2000s. Nice. But so you got to see like peak Brent. I saw. I love. Yeah, I know you and I are aligned on that. That is my wheelhouse. So Jerry had the Jerry almost died in 86 and went into a diabetic coma. They took months off. He had to relearn how to play the guitar. Dennis McNally, their longtime publicist who was right very close, has told me that he always felt Jerry after that was like a great pitcher who'd lost his fastball.

Still amazing and hit moments, but the the speed it just wasn't so if I had a wheelhouse I would say you know Brent like once he started rounding into form. Let's say 82 Yeah, to diabetic coma, which is summer of 86. Yeah, but it's all yeah Yeah, what about um, you have a relationship with Aaron Rodgers? Yeah, I just did a I just actually did two columns on him one of them I went out to Jersey and Hung with him during training camp and so You know, he's a cow guy. I met him, you know coming out of Cal He almost you know gave me my life quest which is to see my team go to the Rose Bowl

Which I think we all agree is not even harder. He's been really good to me over the years. I think we probably diverge now on some certain things. I saw you guys at Tahoe. I saw him going in there. It was a great interview. My favorite part was when you were talking about the doctor's assessment of the, um, Achilles and you said some of the effect of, so you were just trying to get them to make it seem like you could come. Yeah, yeah. He was, he did it for the whole season. He took the, he took the jets hostage a little bit, but how you, you guys did pretty well, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's, I mean, he's an interesting cat. He's a, I didn't like him forever because

he obviously tortured me. But now that he's on the jets, I like I watching him play now is a little, it's kind of fun being like, Oh, he's doing the same tricks where he gets everyone off sides and throws a touchdown there. You know, Lazard. It's like, I can't be mad about this. Right. I mean, I see Christian McCaffrey in that night or locker room constantly. And, um, you know, as a Cal guy, I love him. But I've always regretted it because I was doing this story on Ed McCaffrey for SI, and they only had two kids at the time.

And Ed is a great dude, but not a great quote, but his wife Lisa is hilarious. She's the one whose dad was an Olympic spreader, and she said in the story, we're Ed and I are breeding fast white guys, which is not to be true. It's in the SI story, you can look it up. So we're in their kitchen and the two boys are running around, Max and Christian, I can remember the scene vividly. And I've always kicked myself that I didn't sweep the leg because yes, I probably would have done some jail time, gotten my ass kicked, and it would have been frowned upon.

Probably would have got fired. But God, it would have saved me so much misery. We didn't tackle that guy for three years. I mean, it was terrible. He was so good at Stanford. All right, well, Mike, thank you so much. It's been awesome, man. We really appreciate you coming by,

and everyone go buy the book. It's football history. You're reading football history as it happens too that's the cool part about the book is it's not only history but it's still going on. I totally appreciate it and I feel like this adds to our origin story because we always have the Blues Bar and Jeff Darling to desperately trying to keep us from feuding. Yeah well you kept on saying Hugh Jackson got screwed. It's like he won one game in You can say a lot of things about Hugh Jackson and you could say a lot of things about me

But at least please say that I'm a good friend. You're a good friend. You are you're actually too good of a friend. Yeah That I am too good of a friend We get that same criticism like we have we have guys that are our guys and we will defend them to the ends of the earth I'm gonna get mad my favorite part of my favorite part of the whole thing was jeff is I mean jeff was very You know, we're very close. So jeff was giving me that look like you are not allowed to not, you know You and I were already cool, but he was he was just giving me like you're not allowed to not be cool with I kept on just pressing He was also kind of coming at you, but my favorite part was you got so mad and then you said, I could get Jared Goff not to speak to you.

Yeah, that's right. I was going to cut you off. And Jeff's like, I don't think that's true. Yeah. He told me after he's like, no, you couldn't. I was like, yeah, I took a bluff. But I did love the energy. I remember I kind of stepped back. I was like, wow, this guy that doesn't play. But yeah. But if we bring odor of rankings back, I will literally credit this moment because I've toyed with it. I would love it. But I will, I will probably unveil it to you guys. Yes. I like that. Yes. Um, all right. Well, thanks so much, Mike. Appreciate it so much. Thanks guys. Thanks Mike.

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So head over to chevy.com, build your own Silverado or your Silverado HD, and check out all the current offers on Silverado. Discover world of strength and capability all behind the wheel of our favorite truck, the Chevy Silverado. All right, let's wrap up guys on chicks. Henry, hit us. I've been talking to this guy for some time and I recently learned all his friends call him the Roach. I really don't like the name, especially when one of his friends yell, how's your Roach? Which I don't really understand at all. Well, I really don't like it It's a strange reason to stop talking to him since I do like him

So should I ask him to drop the roach tag or just try to embrace it? Thanks. That's a scummy nickname. Yeah Yeah, it's not good a bug or it's the end of a joint. Yeah, he might be a pothead That would be better Yeah, he should lie to you and tell you it's because he used to smoke a lot of weed I don't do that shit anymore. It's kind of a badass thing. Maybe no roach Yeah, roach, but roach is a guy that you call in like once every other month to hang out Yeah, when you really want to go slumming Roach I know roach is not a guy that you would trust to be like your best man at your wedding

It'd be an usher. Yeah It's like here, hand out these and you'd probably forget. Yeah. My girlfriend recently asked me about the typical placement max of men of men at a urinal when she saw an Instagram video. She did not understand the concept. I explained it to her like each journal is its own parking spot and you as a person are the vehicle trying to park. I had to tell I had her tell me where she would park Herself if it was a parking lot and mimic the video it still did not make sense to her did I explain it wrong or is She dumb

You usually want to give if you have an extra space you take a parking spot makes sense You would never park next to someone if there's an if there's two open spaces Yeah, I do I mean every now and then it's funny if you have like a full empty You would never park next to someone if there's two open spaces. Yeah. I do, I mean every now and then it's funny if you have like a full empty show stand next to someone. Yeah, you go right next to the guy. Like one time I was at the Sirius XM studio and Ed Sheeran was taking the lead at the urinal. What? Wait, the Ed Sheeran? Yeah, Ed Sheeran. But it was like he was starting to blow up. It was 2015.

Holy fuck. And you know who it was though? I did not know who it was until until later But we ended up peeing at the same like right next to each other Shot I actually fuck up. I lied we both did not end up peeing I was peeing and I was peeing like full stream and then Ed poor Ed couldn't squeeze out any pee So he really was trying to pee and he started spitting into the urinal. I dominated him at the urinal.

And then he had to do the fake flush, like he flushed the urinal like he peed, but he didn't pee. And then he washed his hands like he peed, he did not pee. And then just left sad. And I knew he still had to pee, but he couldn't do it because he was intimidated.

How have you never told us this? I don't know. That's insane. It's a wild story. Yeah, parking space though, that works. It's actually a great analogy. Yeah Hi, my boyfriend told me to text this number I saw his fantasy football team name is Hawk to a spit on my chub I think it's weird to have a sexual name But he insists it's a normal thing and it's just funny because there's a guy named to a and a guy named chub on his team

Should I be concerned? I should be concerned because it's unoriginal. Yeah, I think we predicted right when the Hawk Tuah video came out. That was going to be the top fantasy name. If you have Tuah, but everyone's named Hawk Tuah. You name your team before you. But he added a little extra with the Chubb. Does he have Chubb too? So he's just got, what is he doing with his IR spot?

He's got a shitty team. That's the big red flag. He's very bad at fantasy football My fantasy team name has just been Jim Bob Cooter for the past 10 years respect just no no pun just his name I I I've decided that I'm just going to start naming my fantasy teams because everyone's like oh you got to change your name Every year I'm gonna start naming my fantasy teams like I'm six years old so my fantasy team name is the scorpions That's pretty cool. Yeah, isn't it? Or you can name your team just a real name. Like, that's Bob. Yeah. I also you can do I

just I just said I did that. Yeah. Jim Bob Cooter. Yeah, but just give it like one. Yeah, but even that you're trying to sexual sexual. Yeah, but Jim Bob Cooter also Cooter is why you named it. Yeah. It's a funny name Jim. And Jim Bob is also a funny first name. Some leagues you can just do an emoji. So like one year I was just a wolf. That's pretty sick. Bad ass.

Mine's the new team main. Nice. Yeah, I would highly recommend though, just like go back to being like a seven year, like next year. You know what I'm thinking right now? I might change one of my team's names to the fire trucks. I just realized we basically just do fantasy football names every Sunday for boomers. That's true. Yes It's exactly what we do there's probably a lot of people with fancy names from boomers

Yeah remind us to do the Hawk to a joke this week on boomers. Yeah. Yeah, it's about time She's topping us in the charts actually Actually, Talktoa is a monster. But neither of those two players are going to play this weekend. It would have been awesome. Yeah, but we should do it. It would have been perfect last week because it was Hawks. Yeah. Dolphin. It would have been Hawktoa. Shit. Damn.

We'll never get that moment back. Okay. Hank, last one. This one said, Hank last one This one said hey mood dang cat PFT commanders in autumn of Hank my boyfriend and his friends have a weekly scheduled face I'm every Friday night. He says it's their time to catch up and cook up something in the lab for sports for the weekend They just end up taking shots of beer every time the song changes for hours This means we can never go out on Fridays as a couple I have to leave the house if I don't want to hear them screaming about fancy football or the mall dipping sauce Oh, is this normal guy bonding? I feel like this is just an excuse to get drunk

Should I be concerned and will I ever get my boyfriend back for Friday nights was this guy was in a frat was this email from? 2020 Thank you. Yeah, moodang moodang supremacy shirts the bar sports It says she where is moodang moodang supremacy shirts in the bar sports It says she where is moodang moodang supremacy China China It feels like an off maybe Taiwan feels like a Psy up. I love moodang you guys seen pesto That's how they get you using pesto. No, it's pesto's who is moodang for maybe the moodang is a pig me hippo That is the cutest fucking hippo ever. I think pig me hippo, I don't know, little baby hippo. I think it's pig me.

Laura sent me that shirt last week and then she told me that the Phillies NLE Championship shirt was also in that box. So unfortunately I couldn't touch it until tonight. Oh, okay, that makes sense. So go buy it, mudang, the cutest. Ah, Pasto is a penguin that is a baby penguin that is like two times the size of his parents. It's a giant.

It's a unit. Yeah, but baby penguins are furry. So he looks different. It's cool. Pesto's awesome. Oh yeah, Pesto is pretty. Pesto's chill. Listen, I like Mudang.

I enjoy the pictures of Mudang, but it seems like everybody loves Mudang and it's a little convenient that it might be Chinese propaganda. That's fine. I don't care. Okay. This guy. This is a COVID email. He just she just emailed from COVID. That was 2020. Yeah, like getting a group of guys organized for FaceTime that often is was wild. That was I remember doing it a few times with my friends when COVID was happening and it was nice, but as soon as we were able to go outside, which is like three weeks later, we're like, all right, that's over. Yeah. This is, it's really strange to schedule this on a Friday too.

Yeah. And just get drunk staring at your screen. Yeah. Very weird. It had to be a frat. Yeah, it had to be a frat. Okay. Good show, boys.

Good show. Friday. We're going to doO week four excited. Yeah Let's finish with numbers five nine three five 18 11 number five PFT and memes you ever gotten this I haven't but but I'm about to get it Jane Danis six But I'm about to get it Jane dance six Nine let's go you said nine. Yeah. Oh shit. Oh damn that turned god damn it you fucking

In your face trick me sucks damn good job Hank my daughter, baby. All right hell. Yeah Happy for you very happy for you. Thanks feels good to win baby. Nine. Hell yeah. Happy for you. Very happy for you Hank. Thanks. Feels good to win. Doot doot. What was it? What did you do Max?

What? Winner. I win. And then you lost. That's actually the mark of a true winner, the way that Hank reacted. He was just like cool. Yeah, cool. Oh nice, nine.

Yeah, well you gotta talk some shit. Love you guys. So So So So Thanks for watching!