Parenting Hell with Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe - S01 EP68: Philippa Perry

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

ROB BECKETT & JOSH WIDDICOMBE'S 'LOCKDOWN PARENTING HELL' S01 EP68: Philippa PerryJoining us in the studio this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) during the lockdown and beyond is the brilliant psychotherapist and author, Philippa Perry. Philippa's fantastic book 'The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read (and Your Children Will be Glad That You Did)' is out in paperback on the 31st of December. Enjoy. Rate and Review. Thanks. xxx If you want to get in touch with the show here's how:EMAIL: [e-mail]: @lockdownparent INSTAGRAM: @lockdown_parentingA 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, I'm Josh Riddickham. And I'm Robb. Welcome to Lockdown Parenting Hell. The show in which Rob and I discuss what it's like to be a parent during lockdown, which I would say can be a little tricky. So in an effort to make some kind of sense of the current situation. And to make me feel better about my increasingly terrible parenting skills. Each episode will be chatting to a famous parent about how well they're coping. Or hopefully not. And we will be hearing from you the listener with your tales of lockdown parenting woe. Because let's be honest, none of us know what we're doing.

Hello and welcome to lockdown parent in hell with. My birthday. Can you say Josh Whiddickham? Josh Whittleton. Well don't, you can have a chocolate. Right, go ahead. Amazing. I mean the efficiency there, that was instant, well done, have a chocolate, see later. That was, yeah. That mom does not fuck about. And also Lauren, who is, I'm presuming that is. Yeah. You know people have a voice they used for talking to their child. She's the first person I've ever met that doesn't have a different voice for talking to a child. Maybe if you could just say, Rob Beckett and I'm sorry, is it all right? Yeah, good, right? Yeah, good, right? She's a chocolate, like, the to be a today... th. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's their. She's their. She's their. She's their. She's their. She's their. She's their. She's the first. She's their. She's their. She's their. She's their. She's their. She's their. She's their. She's their. She's the first. She's the first. She's the first. She's the first. She's the first. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's. She's the first. She's the first. She's the first. She's the first. She's the first. She's the first. She's the first. She's the first. She's the the first. She's the the first. She's the the first. She's the first. She's change up meeting for next week. Thank you. Okay, cool.

Yeah, just basically just whatever fits here with tier 3. Thank you very much. Cool. There's a chocolate. Bye. Say that name. Oh, hello, you're my child, are you brilliant? How's home?

Good, okay, Paul? Yeah, okay, Paul. . L'er. That is Neve. She's three in January and we live in a beautiful picturesque borough of Croydon. Oh, whatever. Lovely. Also, here is a tip for parents who like myself have found themselves in a situation where they have to isolate 14 days because some kid has tested positive in their kids bubble at school. Write numbers and words on pieces of paper and hide them all around the house. Sit on the sofa and shout out words and numbers for your children to to to to to to to to to to the house. Sit on the sofa and shout out words

and numbers for your children to find. Tadar, homeschooling. That is good. So, that's good. So, that's good practice. That's good. That's good. So, that's good practice. That's good. So, that's good. So, that's efficient. to be fair to Lauren. She's got a five year old. to. the the. t. th. th. th. th. th. th. to. th. to. to. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the th. thin. thi. So, the the the the their. So, their. So, their. So, their. So, their. So, their. So, their. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. t. t. th. the t. the the t. the the the the the th. the the th. the the the th. th. th Lauren, she's got a five year old and a two month old. Oh my god, no wonder she's efficient. 14 days of lockdown. No wonder she's speaking in such a monotone. Is that no wonder there's no joy in a voice? You're just getting through the day, Lauren, I get it. Yeah, you know, your wallpaper in words over your walls just to keep the kids busy. I've been there. You've got to the the the the the their wa. their wa. their wa. their wa. their wa. their wallpaper. their wallpaper. their wallpaper. their wallpaper. their wallpaper. their wallpaper. their wallpaper. their wallpaper. their wallpaper. their wallpaper. their wallpaper. their wall. their wall. their w. their w. their w. their w. their w. their w. their w. their w. their w. their w. their wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. the the t. the the the the th. the th. th. the th. th been there. You've got to do what you've got to do. How are you, Rob? I'm good. I'm not too bad. I've opened the treasure chest. That is our Instagram messages. It's an absolute, it's like the Wild West on there, mate. There's no like formalities of an email. Because normally an email. It's always like, hi. Bigger. Of course. It's always like, the. official account and name and also because it's a bit more secret on it on Instagram because you could have a picture you could have no picture it could be locked we've got one here which is quite exciting can we see a picture and or get producer Michael's surname so he can stalk him on behalf of all

women listening to the Tom Allen episode so it sounds like producer Michael because that lady seemed very keen on producer Michael but you know I think you know voices can be deceiving. He's disgusting. All right guys. I can now. Here he is. Sexy Michael. Michael have you been told you've had a sexy voice before? Well I have actually it's not the first time I've heard it yeah. Oh. Who's been producing up his voice? It's more bassy now. Michael yeah that is sounds I don't if someone's pointed out it s his voice. It's more bacey now. Right, Michael, yeah, that is, it sounds, I don't know if someone's pointed out is sexy, it sounds sexy, or you're making it sexier subconsciously.

But what would they say, is this your normal voice then, would you say, do you put on a talking on the air voice? I'd say if my normal voice is an eight, So we should maybe take requests of things to say. Maybe, can you say, I've just put the kids both down, they're going to sleep for 12 hours, you can have a lion. Because I think for our listenership, that could absolutely blow the roof off. What's her name? Um, this is good. This is fun.

Oh, no, if you don't do, I'll put the kids to bed and tomorrow he can have a lion. Hey Lucy, I've put the kids to bed. I've run you a nice bath. Why don't you have a lion tomorrow and I'll take them to school. Oh, even I'm up for it and it's not much. I'm going to say it very rarely to your partner do you say hey, hey, before you say their name. I know but that's he's trying to create the ideal scenario. Not, it's your fucking turn to do it. I did it last time and I've got work in a minute, which is how it normally sounds. So Michael, thank you and I think Lucy's going to really enjoy that. That's just for us Christmas present for Lucy. Um, we've got some cow tongue debate coming in. I'm just say, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, it's thi, it, it's thi, it's th. It's th. It's th. It's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, it's th. It's th. It's th. It's thi, it's thi, it's to, it's to, it's to, it's to, it's to, it's to, it's to, it's to, it's to, it's to, it's to say, it grinds me again. I'm really, more and more, I'm, I think bedtime is, I'm just obsessed with how overrated it is, Rob. I know. It's the main thing that you talk about is how much you hate bedtime. I enjoy the rest, so much more than bedtime. It's crap. But what about when they're all like clean and cozy in their pajamas you tackle me? Yeah, but that's the last bit of bed time.

I know what you mean, but I'm not a massive fan of it. I do think it's overrated. How would you rank the following things? Bedtime, including bath, yeah. The first 20 minutes of the day, car journeys. Are you just list of things you hate? Well yeah I'm putting the things that I think might be in competition. I'm not gonna put... Oh so as the worst things, most overrated things. A car journeys the first 20 minutes of the day and... Bedtime. The first 20 minutes to the day is so bleak. The slow realization of what you've done to your life but after 25 minutes of the to' theu-o to to on the fucking grind. Is that what you're saying? I think the first 10 minutes of the day are tough

but I'd actually say then the following two hours I'm absolutely on top of my game if I haven't had any alcohol in my system. You're peaking. Which is normally almost always the case at the moment. Yeah. About the moment, I mean, in the last three years. I was watching the boxing and I had, I've got that perfect pint drafting and I had three pints of beer and I was absolutely battered. I've not been drinking from weeks a month, not been going out, I've not been going out for dinner, you can't do anything, can you? I'm so drunk. I felt awful the thrown. I felt, I felt, I felt, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful, I felt awful th. I felt th. I felt th. I felt awful awful that that, I felt th. I felt that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that, I'd that, I'd that, I'd that, I'd that, I'd that, I'd that, I'd that's that's that, I'd that's that's that, I'd that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that's that that's that that's that's that's that that's that It is. But if I haven't been drinking, the time between say, say she wakes up at 6.30, from 640 to 840, I am fucking invincible. I kick in at about 10 a.m. I can't cope in the morning. Oh no. And then I have such a 9 a.m. dip when I'm like, oh my god,

I've given everything. I've given it all. I've gone too early early taply. t like when like a crap team plays like Liverpool in the in the FAA Cup third round, like League three and they just absolutely go for it the first half and in the last 20 minutes they score six. We've got nothing left in the tank. The we've got some more cow tongue stuff here. that the stoongue. that's that's This is from some guy on Instagram, A-Gound 85. Nothing makes sense, is it, in the new social media? What kind of names that, Mr A-Gown? We are so old. We're talking about how we can't handle three pints and you don't understand social media.

But what I do understand is Brexit and we need it, okay guys. I just want to get to to their their their their their tha, I thoe thoe, I thoe, I thoe, I tho, I tho, I tho, I tho, I tho, tho, to to tho, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, that, that, that, that, that, that, tho, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to thi, tho, than, to that's, than, than. Do you remember when there was like middle-age comics that thought we were those awful young comics and now we're the middle-aged comics, Rob? But we don't think the young people are awful, we just don't understand them. Yes, but you know, not that I don't under, I don't understand them, but I don't begrudge the youth. I don't th. Don't begrudge it it their the mental and going for it. I don't say they're going to go, oh God, they're idiots, it's stupid. I think brilliant. I'll be a lunatic. I think that's the difference. You will get old, you will get mid-age. You won't be able to hold you drink forever. But as long as you don't hate everyone while that's thiiiiiiiiiii. I I I I I I I I I I I's their. I's their. I's their. I's thi. I's thi. I's thathea. thathea. I's thatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheatheat. I'm that is stupid. I'm thi. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're thi. I's stupid. I's stupid. I's stupid. I'm stupid. I'm thi. I'm stupid. It's stupid. It's stupid. It's stupid. It's stupid. It's stupid. I's stupid. It's stupid. I's stupid. It's stupid. I'm they're they're they're they're they's our Christmas message to the nation. As long as you don't hate everyone, you're going to be okay. Exactly, it's a lot of time. You waste a lot of time hating people, don't you? Anyway, this is cow tongue, anyway, back to the cow tongues.

Someone once brought some cow tongue into a local pub. I was basically, if you didn't hear on previous, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, and, to, to, to, and, and, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the they... too, they. too, they. too, too, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, too, too, too, too, too, to, toue into a local pub for a snack. My brother refused to eat the end of the tongue because the cow would have used it to lick its own ass. This is into a massive drunk debate about whether or not a cow is able to lick its own ass. I personally don't think a cow is flexible enough and even though it has a long tongue, not enough that's not long enough that's not long enough that's. Any chance that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the that's that's not long that's not long that's not long that that's not long that. tho tho to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. that that that that thi thi thrown the thrown the the the the the the the the the the the the the.a the the the. the the the the the the the to too thanks Adam. So I agree it's not flexible enough is it? It's got no it hasn't got the neck or the agility to lick it so nice. It's not a cat. No, it's no way it can lick its own ear and lick its own nostril. Sure. Can it lick its own ass? Not for the one to try and it can't, but it cannot reach it. But I think it would if it could if it helps like the cow's not going to be able to lick its own ass. But also, I don't know if that's the reason not to eat a tongue that's been brought into a pub. Yeah, on a side note, I agree with that. I mean, whether it's touched anus or not, I would not eat the end of a tongue brought into a pub. No. I think that's something we can all agree on. No, there's bigger issues at play than a hypothetical anus. We've got this from Rebecca Stark, Fuzzy, thanks for bringing me so much joy every week. Secondly, I've just been reading the top baby names of 2020. I'm pregnant, not just for a morning browse.

And the article I read from Baby Centre said that the number of babies registered as Malcolm this year has doubled. Whoa, from one to two. Oh, you're good, Josh. Do you know what? You've always got a 30-yarder hidden away, don't you? Do you know what I mean?

Just a bit of fun. Oh, out of nowhere, top corner from the Widdickum there. It said the babies has doubled, Baby Centre put it down to people watching Malcolm X during lockdown, but surely it's all down to people listening to your podcast. I'd like to say it's probably 50-50 split between us and Malcolm X on the name, don't you think? I think it's impossible for people to tell and you've got to say that surely our market is the naming kids market so if anything. Well yeah I mean I I I I I I I I I I I I'm the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their ma. Surely, surely, surely, surely, surely, surely, surely, surely, surely, surely, surely, surely, is surely, is surely, is surely, is surely, is surely, is surely, is surely, is surely, is surely is surely is surely is surely is, is, is surely is, is surely is surely is, is surely is surely is, is surely is, is, is, is, is surely is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is the name is the name is the name is the name is the name is the name is the name is the name is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name, is the name not saying pregnant women don't watch the Malcolm X film I'm just saying there's probably you know more pregnant women listening to this than watching that over the summer potentially wouldn't you say? I'd say that's a hundred percent true I've got an email on a similar thing. Oh okay and I want you to make this decision. Greetings from Canada. Greetings from to the to be a told. Greetingsing to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the their their to their to to their greetings to to to to to to to to to to to their greetings greetings to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their greetings from their greetings their greetings their greetings their greetings their greetings their greetings their g. Greetings their g. Greetings their g. Greetings their their their their their their their their their their.g.g. Greetings, their their their their their their their their thean. Greetings thean. Greetings to British tele during the lockdown in March. From Taskmaster we started your and other contestants stand-up.

Eccet, etc. Perhaps I've missed it. We're a few episodes behind. They haven't missed it. But I'm interested to know if Josh's daughter has ever earned a Gavin and Malcolm-style monica of our own. Oh yeah, we haven't asked. In case it's an issue of being out of ideas I can offer three so here's three yeah and you can choose Rob yep. Lionel Oh I like that. Clive. Yeah or Bramwell's left field in it yeah I've never heard of Bramwell as a name no I'm gonna rule out Bramwell so you can go with Clive or Lionel. Well the thing is when you hear Lino what do you think of first? Ritchie or th th th th th th th th th the th th th th their th th th their th th th their th th th. th. Yeah th. Yeah. Yeah. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the's the th. th. th. th. th. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I th. I th. I th. I th. Yeah. Yeah. I th. Yeah. Yeah. I th. Yeah. I th. Yeah. I th. Yeah. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. th. th.. Well, the thing is, when you hear Lino, what do you think of first? Richie or Messie? Uh, Lionel Messie?

Uh, 100%. Yeah, so because I think that's, that's a generation gap there. People would go think of Richie before messy? Yeah, the other one isthat. That's the only other Lionel. I think Clive, I like Clive, what do you think Clive, what do you think Clive, what do you think? Clive? Yeah, Clive, let's go with Clive. Yeah, go with Clive so we can refer to her as Clive. Okay, we're going to gothick of it. Malcolm Gladwell. Malcolm Gladwell? Yeah, Malcolm, the right back,

the right back called Malcolm for Brazil. Just called Malcolm. I'm obsessed with Brazilian footballers that have just got boring, normal names. Fred. Fred, Malcolm, Allison. Allison. My mate's mum was called Allison, well she still is called Allison.

And I just can't, I just think of her in goal, and Allison's in goal. It just makes it feel like we're down the park and he's brought his mom. Um, we've also got a conspiracy here, Josh. I don't know if you're aware of this. If this is about 5G, I'm not on board. Okay, I'll get Aim Holmes on for a chat about it. Cons conspiracy. Cons this is, I've listened to every episode of your podcast, but just a couple of each of these podcasts. Basically, they've got a screenshot of their top three podcasts they've listened to this year.

So in the top three of their podcasts are, Shaqmarinoid, Chris and Rosie, Catherine, Brian, telling everybody everything, and off menu with their, and their, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and off, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, their, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, they, they, they, they, they, they, they's, they, they's, they've, they.a.a, they's, they's, they's, they've they've they.a, they're, they.a, they.a, their, their, and, and, basically, A great podcast. I've got no beef for those guys. Good luck to him, you know. But it says, but, yet yours doesn't appear in my Spotify end of year, top podcast of the year. Top podcast of the year. I know how important awards are to Josh. So hopefully this is a one-off and it hasn't affected your ratings. And it hasn't affected your ratings. this halfway through the year. Do you know what I mean? So it's 2021, it's gonna be our year, Josh, I think. Well, we made it. I was happy to see that we've made it into the,

I wonder if it's still on there. I clicked on iTunes. They did their top new podcasts of 2020. Biggest new shows, that one. Yeah, we're on that one with Louis Theru. We're tho, we're tho, we're tho, we're tho, we're tho, we're tho, we're tho, we're tho, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, tho, I'm, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, I thi, I thi, I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi, I th. I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi. thi. thi. thoooooooooooooo. theean, thean, thi. thi. thi. thi, I'm that one with Louis Thoreau. I can't get away. We can't shake him, can we? He's doing a second series. He's doing a bloody second series. We're in trouble. Louis Tharu, us, Catherine, and others, Joe Wicks, etc., AmeriCast. But yes, the dream next year, Rob, is that below that is the biggest shows of 2020. Yeah, but next year, fingers crossed for next year, but I think it does feel like we've done this forever but you've literally only started this, what in May, June time was it? Exactly. We're already so jaded.

Can you remember in August when people said you've got a change name from lockdown whilst we're in mid-tier three? We knew. We know. I think yeah we'll maybe change it in next year we'll see. we'll thin' the wea maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the ne maybe maybe ne maybe ne maybe the ne maybe ne maybe nenenenene. ne. We'll maybe the the ne. We'll maybe the the the the ne. We'll maybe their th. We'll maybe their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. Maybe the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their tha. Maybe tha. Maybe tha. Maybe tha. Maybe te. Maybe te. tean. tean. tean. tean. tean. te. te. te. te. te. te. conspiracy. I've got no problems with Spotify or any of those podcasts. I just think we've only been going six months guys. You've got give us 2021. And then we'll look back at the conspiracy. We'll double check it then. Yeah. Thank you very much for all your emails and Instagrams. Rob, how can they get in tou. This is how you can get in tou. thou. th. This th. This th. This th. This th. This is how th. This is th. This is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to get in. to to get in. to get in. to get in. to get in. to get in. to get in. to get in. to get in. to get. to get. to. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. It. I. I. I to. I to. the the the the. the the. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. parenting.coad.uk or tweet us at lockdown parents or Instagram lockdown underscore parenting and you can also send us stuff PO box 76748 London E99DW. And can you make sure that you rate and review our podcast please as always helps with us in the charts and stuff like that you rate and review our podcast please?

That always helps with us in the charts and stuff like that. We really appreciate it. No way, we don't say that enough. We went, we went top three again. Oh yeah, we're having a whale of a time. Oh yeah, we're still up there. We're still up there. It's unbelievable.

It's unbelievable. Yeah, we're probably going to do an end of year, New Year's Eve, New Year's Day special, and we can talk about all that stuff there, but we're very appreciative. Thank you very much for listening and hope you enjoy this episode. Right now, time for today's guest. We've wanted to have her on for so long. She's absolutely brilliant. So many people I've in lockdown when we was trapped indoors with our kids, lockdown parenting hell where basically me and Josh could sort of rant a little bit about how hard it was parented in lockdown and it seemed like we weren't the only ones feeling it and it struck a cord with a few people. So sort of become a weird little group of people all muddling through together now.

And what's it going to be like for your children when they find out that being with them is hell apparently? I'm so grateful that you're keeping the psychotherapy profession alive. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Being with me is hell apparently. What we could do is I'm going to blame Josh for the title and Josh is going to blame me for the title of the show and in the they they they they they they they they they they they th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi they they thi they they they find they find they find they find they find they find they find they find thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi they they they they they find they find they find they find they find they find they they they they they they they they thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th could do is we I'm going to blame Josh for the title and Josh who's going to blame me for the title of the show and in that way it might you know shift the blame. Yeah I would say I wouldn't want her to have heard the initial ones during lockdown but now my parenting is is so the opposite of it was during lockdown Philip that uh what have you learned during lockdown to help you find this parenting relationship easier? I like that the psychotherapist has turned

this into my therapy session rather than an interview. You can see it as that if you like. What have I learned during lockdown? Well, not to throw it back on you, Philip, but that is when my wife told me that I needed to read your book. Uh-huh, good. Let me tell you the incident that led to that, which was a 45-minute standoff in the hallway when my daughter wouldn't put on her coats to go out. And I had decided that this was a red line

that I couldn't go back on. Yeah. This is what you prepared to die for. Yeah. It can really blow up, can it? A coat in a hallway can really make or break a relationship. This was a different me, Philip. But this is what I was prepared, on that day, it was what I was prepared to die for,

which now feels, to use your word, it now feels absolutely absurd. But I was kind of, if she throws a mood, I can't, this was how I was feeling on the day. If she's getting angry about this, I can't just bow to this and go along with it. No, how much better have you escalated by getting angry too? And you're talking to someone who's read the book, Philip, but this was before the book. This was before the book.

Okay, that makes sense. It would be a terrible advert for the book if this was after you read the book. Luckily I was sat in a hallway for 45 minutes so I had time to read the book at that point. I know so that's when my wife had read the book was like, do you know what to really help you would be reading this book? Because I think what I didn't realize is you know I mean I think what I think what I didn't realize that that is a human. Do you know what I mean? I know that's that is a human that is going through emotions like an adult goes to emotions. You just think they're really trying to fuck you over regarding the coat.

I feel like I've actually just maybe hacked into your actual therapy session now, Josh. Look, will you just forget, I'm a psychotherapist, forget that, I'm just a normal, curious person? Yes. Now, when your daughter doesn't want to put her coat on, Josh, how do you cope with that now? Well, to be honest, I'd probably crumble. I know, I would relate to her feelings about it, and I talk to her about it and I discuss it with her. And I, I wouldn't, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, th, I, I, I, th, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the, the, forget to to to to to to to to the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, forget the, I'm thi thi thi and I talk to her about it and I discuss it with her and I wouldn't say that it's that would be a full-proof method because she's got an insanely high body temperature that means she never wants to wear a coat. I learned very early on just to take the coat with me to put on when she was cold. Yes. No argument about coat, no. Life is short, isn't it? It is. I mean we haven't actually, we've just kind of eased into the pocket. What I've realized now, Philip, is if I do want therapy for free, all I need

to do is do it on a podcast and let the person promote their book during it. Except for I might start charging for podcasts. Yeah, I don't have come out of this with a loss, Philippa, no offence. So your book, the book, you wish your parents had read and your children will be glad that you did. A bit of a long title. It is a long time. What do you call, yeah, what do you call it when you're emailing someone about it? The book the book the book. The book. The book. The book. The book. The book. The book. Yeah the book. Yeah the book. Yeah, the book. Yeah, the book. Yeah, the book. Yeah, the book. Yeah, the book, the book, the book, the book, the book, the book, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. I I I I I I, I I, I, I I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th. I, I, I th. I, I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, the. the. the. I'm thoooooooooooo. I'm, the. I'm, thoooo. I'm, the. I'm, th. I'm It is a long time. What do you call it when you're emailing someone about it? The book. Yeah. The book. Well, my problem was my dad didn't read a book till it was 37. So it wouldn't be the book, it would be a book that they should have read. So genuinely, I've texted some of my friends that are parents about the fact we're interviewing you. I might as well have said to them, we, them, them, the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th, th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to to to thi. to to to to to to toeei. thi. My thi. thi. My thi. My thi. thi. thi.'re interviewing you. I might as well have said to them, we're interviewing

John Lennon the way they responded, Philip. She is an amazing human being was one of the responses, and just I love her in capital letters. God, this is amazing. I'm going to rub this all over. Yeah. And we asked, we asked an Instagram for loads of questions we've been inundated. So you're proving to be quite a popular book in Philippa, so no pressure, but we're very excited to have you on. Okay, let's let's rock it then. What's your setup at home? How old are you? My set up at home is that it's just me and my husband looking at each other across the sofa, thinking, why did she leave home so young? She's only taught me. What do we do wrong? Why doesn't she want to live with us? We have one kid. And so she's grown up and moved out and did she move out at 28 or did she move out a young boy?

No, she moved out at 21. Yeah, I think that's quite a good age or would you rather that she lived with me forever and became my carer? Yeah, I'd like. And with your book, this book's really sort of resonated with parents and stuff. And it's a like, you know, in sort of, obviously you need to read the whole book, but breaking it down, it's more like, engage with a child on a human and emotional level of why they're feeling like that, rather than just telling people how to implement that than you are implemented it yourself or do you really, did you really try and approach parenting like that as you were doing it? I lived the book, I've been writing the book for that the last 60 years. Because, you know, when my parents started you know not taking my feelings into consideration and then being a psychotherapist for a long time you get to

realize that the adults are actually still the children the adults that you have as your patients your clients so they're still the children and I listened to them about what it was like for them growing up and it's not like they had terrible toxic parents or anything they just had parents that didn't realize like Josh said earlier on that this is a human not an it you know this is a person to have a relationship with you know from a baby to an adult they are still a person and I just wanted to get that across so I wrote a book about it. Was there a moment where that

clicked for you or like you say was it always there from when you was little like do you go ah this is why this is why that's happening was it a slow process rather it was always there I think it was from back the age of seven but of course I had to to train as a as a as a the psych a the psych a the psych a the psych a think it was there from back the age of seven. But of course I had to train as a psychotherapist, practice as the psychotherapist before I was ready to write it. In the book you talk a lot about what you call rupture and repair. When I read, one of the things I was worried about reading it is I think that I'd already kind of messed up too much. I know what I mean? I was thinking like, oh God, this is going to tell me that... Yeah, like finding Christianity in prison.

But that's not something people should worry about, is it? No, it's never too late, because a relationship is an ongoing thing. And we tend to think of if you think of parenting as a task rather than a relationship then you think in terms of I've blown it or I've nailed it and I don't think that's particularly helpful because parenting is a relationship foremost I know there are chores attached but it's important to think of your child as a person and not a chore. Yeah. Because I think people make that mistake of, I just want your kids to be happy.

I want me these kids to be happy and then my mom always used to say, oh, you're only as happy as your unhappiest child, which is probably one of the bleakest things you can hear from your own mother, which I'm sure you've got a lot to always be happy. Yeah, would you explain my life? You've got that pressure always to be happy? Yeah, I don't want to be the one letting down the side looking at my brothers going, come on guys. But if you've got that pressure always to be happy, if you can feel unacceptable when you've got other moods like despair or sadness or anger. So, and then because you're not allowed to be despairing or angry you don't learn how to manage those feelings because you're not allowed to have them so they tend to get repressed and then more work for therapists later up as we look like to cope with these feelings yeah so my idea is that parents learn to hold and contain and accept every single feeling

that a child might have, which paradoxically increases their capacity for happiness. Yes, because they can cope with it and then bounce back, as it were. Because if you think it's okay, if it's okay to be sad, you can work through your sadness, then you back as it were. Because if you think it's okay if it's okay to be sad, you can work through your sadness, then you can have a laugh. But if it's not okay to be said, you tend to hold on to it and not move on in the same way. Sometimes I find, to turn into my therapy session where if you're delivered some news, it's quite like planning permission or something or something that annoying little thing like that where you want something to happen then a letter comes to go no you can't do that and that sort of panic

and anxiety comes in as it would because you go oh we can't do a thing we want to do and I think sometimes you rather than rather than than go okay well that's you know and then have the emotion of being frustrated, should be able to sit on that emotion and let it breathe rather than go repress it and go, no, I'll sort this out and try and, you don't always have to react upon something to change what's going to happen. You can sort of sit with it. If you get bad news like you don't get your planning permission or your dog dies or something terrible like that, it's appropriate to be sad to be sad to be a to be sad. Yes, that is the right emotion. Yeah, to be sad for the dog or angry for the planning permission. After all, you paid a planning consultant for God's sake. Yeah, exactly. Have you been refused planning permission, Rob? Was that just... No, I haven't.

But I was literally looking out the window and I saw an extension, that's why I said planning permission. But yeah, I think that's a big about try to make your kids happy all the time and it's like, you know, going to work, like I saw that in the new chapter in the paperback about if you're going to work and the kids are upset that you're going to work, you know, you feel guilty that they're sad but then it's that kind of thing. Well, they will, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, they they th. They'll, well, like, like, like, like, like, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, like, like, like, like, I'll, I'll, well, I'll, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, th. They. Well, th. They'll, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, Iry and say if I'm going to work, I'll say why are you going to work? I'll say why you need to, you need money to sort of live and also I enjoy it. I enjoy it. I enjoy it. I know work to be this big grey horrible thing of they steal your dad and it's awful. I need to go so we can go on holiday but also I really enjoy there's positive. And you can also say, of course you're sad I'm going. I'm very flattered that you think me in those terms or you know. Yeah. You're going to be sad for a while but um mummy I notice has got the leg out about so you're going to be okay. I know you're sad at the moment and that's that's fine. That's it she work though

now is just going upstairs to a podcast. It's not got the same you know nine to five commuting. I think that's even I think that's harder for kids when you're in the house and you're not playing with them or being with them because you're doing your zoom or whatever it is and I think that's not so easy for the kid to understand. the the the to to to to to to the to to to to to to to to to the to the to the their to their their to to their to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to go their their to to to to to to to their their their the same. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same the same their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their to their their to to toe. I toe. I toe. toe. toe. toe. to to to to to to to to to to the same. that's not so easy for the kid to understand when you go out. I had the sort of very childish feeling at the beginning of the first lockdown when my daughter did my shopping for me, left it on the step, rang the bell and then stood back from the step as though we both had leprosy and I said, won't you come in and she said, Mom, you know, I can't come in, it's not the rules, you know, sort of thing.

So I went, oh, thank you for the shopping and took it in. And then I burst into tears. Because I knew what the rules were, I knew cognitively that she couldn't come in, but my th th. I'm 63, so really I should have got over this by now. But imagine if you're seven or something and you say, I'm going to go and work in the spare room, you can't come in. Yeah. It will feel a bit like you might understand that you've got to do a podcast, but I think your body cannot catch up with that.

There's a sort of mind-body dissonance. And I think we all feel it with these weird rules that our bodies aren't used to. And so expect more crying is what I'm saying. We had quite an interesting kind of experience recently where we got rid of the dummy with my daughter. Teeth were being pushed forward by it. For only the milk teeth? Anyway, do you know what? I like this attitude Philip, I'm the one who's bloody well enacting the book and

Rob's the one who's coming across as a great parent. I don't know how this has happened. This is unbelievable. I've got a theory about why. I think there's a class difference sometimes in parenting where when you're a bit more middle class or you know, I've become middle class now through my life, but like I've still got them sort of semi-working class values where when you're middle class you do have more opportunities to be at home. So like sometimes work can be a choice where when you're working class, it is like you have to go to work because you're work..... work. work. work. work. work. When work. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. to work. their. to work. their. to work. their. their. to work. their. their work. to work. to work. to work. to work. to be. their work. their work. to be. to be. to. to. to. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. I. I. I. I. their. I. I. I. I. their. I. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. their. there's no that allowance to fill that guilt to go oh actually I don't really need to go for this meeting I could get my assistant to go or and then whereas if you are like going to drive a taxi you're like I've got to drive that taxi

because I get that money to that we need to pay the bill so I do think sometimes with that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that thi I that thi. thi thi that that thi that that that that that that thi thi thi that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to too. too is too is too is too is tooooooooooooooooo is too is to to to to well no I've got to go, you sort of you haven't got much choice to live. I don't know if that plays a part, Philippa. Well the thing is about that is that we all have limits and we have boundaries. Like the limit in that case is no I've got to go and drive my taxi. Personally I'd get my assistant to drive the taxi but you know what every. you have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You. You. You have to go. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go, you have to go, to go, to go, to have to go, you have to go, you have to go, you have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go. You have to go and drive the taxi. But sometimes you also have to go and do something because it's fun. Not because you have to do it. It's the same thing. You have to put down a boundary before you reach your limit. The taxi driver, the limit is,

we will starve unless I go out to work. For you, it might be, I will implode unless I make a podcast with Josh because that's fun and I need to do it. Okay, so you still got the limit. So you put the boundary down to say, I'm sorry you're unhappy and I'm going to go and do this thing. I'm not about being lax. I'm about setting your boundary but it's really important when you set your boundary that you don't make up a reason, that you tell the truth and you tell the truth from an eye perspective like I really like you saying I go to work because it's fun and I'm sorry if you don't like it but I like enjoying myself rather than I go

to work so you could have some lovely clothes and toys you know that is sort of like you know don't pull the wool over the wool the wool the wool the wool the wool the wool the wool the wool the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tho I I I I toy toy toy toy toy toy toy toy. troooo. I truths too. I too. I too. I too. I to to to to to toys. You know, that is sort of like, you know, don't pull the wool over the rise like that. A bit master in it. Well, yeah, I don't fucking want this coat on anyway. I'm so hot. It's gas lighting, isn't it? It's sort of like trying to guilt trip them into letting you go to work. No, you've got to lose the dummy because your teeth are going to go good, as long as you say I'm afraid you have to take the dummy from you because otherwise I'm really worried about my middle class credentials. I can't go to Victoria Park with you in the dummy because I'm not going to Victoria Park with you in the dummy because I'm a partner with you in the dummy in case in case

Victoria and David come by with little baby Barbara who hasn't had a dummy for ages you know it's going to be competitive parenting and you know you can't I don't want to look like a fool so because I am a fool I'm taking away your dummy basically. If you don't pretend it's for her sake because she knows she loves her dummy and you say it's for my sake, it's because I can't stand the dummy anymore. Then I think it's fair. Then she knows you're the crazy one and that's good. I think she's fully aware of that. She worked that out the day I had a 45 minute standoff over a coat.

She's very clear on that. You used a dummy fairy and that she's a big girl now type of technical. Well no I didn't, I didn't. I changed to, this was why I brought up. I enacted while I would describe as some Philip Perry style parenting and I was very pleased. Tell me what comes to what to feel that is, Josh. So, so we initially... This is such like teacher's pet. I feel like we're at... I know, but I'm not getting anywhere with it, Rob. I'm not getting anywhere. I've done, I've read the book and this is my exam and now I'm failing my exam and I can't believe it, Brief. Take a moment, Josh. I can't do it. I'm just going to leave the zoom call.

It's too much pressure. Oh. She's obsessed with being a big girl. And if you call her small, she doesn't like it, right? And so with the dummy thing, we'd be like, oh, you're doing it. You know, she was doing very well, and you're like, you're a big girl, you're doing so well, all that. And actually, what happened then was, she woke up in the night without at 4 a.m. We went into her and she was upset,

and we were like, why are you upset? And she said, I can't tell you. And we were like, is it because of the dummy? And we realized we hadn't engaged engaged with it and we're like, we know it's tough, you know, we've been through this, like, her mom remembers the experience herself. Oh God. And yeah, so you probably need therapy for her as well.

But, you get a family right. Yeah, we got a family right. But once we engaged with her about it, and engaged with the sadness of it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, and it, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, tho, tho, tho, thi, th, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. And, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th..... And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi's thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii's thi's thi, the sadness of it, it just totally opened up and it was a completely different experience. Oh yeah. So I was just using that as an example, but I'm not going to lie. All he wanted you to go, well done Josh. But now, but now, I'm not going to give her the dummy back because I've been shamed

into it by you. No, don't want her to have it. You've put down your boundary and you've done the right thing of comforting her in her grief of doing without it. So I think you're doing just fine. That's all you want to the the only want to Philip, thank you. I'm doing just fine. She's allowed to have her sad feelings about it and there was thing she couldn't tell you about because she felt she had to be a certain way to get your approval and you've gone through that. She can be anything she likes and you're still going to approve of her. Now Philip do you find sometimes though that the danger is people overcompensate and go too far

the other way if their parents parented in a certain way they sort of just immediately do the opposite in a sort of a act of thee of the of the of the of the of the of the of the of the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thee. the ea. the. So. theee ea' the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. And the. And the. And the. And the. And the. And the. And the. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And the. And the. And the. And the. And the. And the. And the. And theanananananan't theanananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananed. And theananananed. And theaned. And active rebellion. Yeah, what I think you're talking about is that if you're brought up very strict, do you go too far and go lax and this does happen? And what tends to happen with parents who are reluctant to put down any boundaries at all is that of course they reach their limit and then lose it. It's very sad. So we've all got buttons and we're all capable of getting them pushed. So I think every parent should put down a boundary before they're in danger or having these buttons pushed and I'm not saying where that should be. Probably coat isn't it? That's where the boundary should be. I like quite short temperate.

So when my kid, poor kid, said, I want my sauce and my spaghetti separate, I said, oh that's tough because I made a pasta bake and it's all in one go. She said, well, I'm not eating it. I go, oh dear, you're going to be quite hungry later, but okay, and that's what I was like. And soon enough she'd eat the sauce and the pasta. I mean, I was quite synthetic about it,

but I cannot be asked to cook separate meals for everyone. I'm sorry. That is my limit. So the boundary I put down is like, it's pasta bake or nothing. I'm sorry. Yeah, our daughter was very funny with what she ate. But the d'unto. of what she ate but we never made it into a big thing was like okay well that's dinner you either have it or you don't and then eventually she did start

and then when she went to school she has like school dinner she's only five for her school dinners at lunchtime and then she'd come on the other day and she's been eating lamb and she was like oh do you know what sausages are loo the lobe with potatoes in bread because all tho they's to the the the the they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they to to to to to to they to they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to try to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to they to but we never saw what didn't force us to do it was like well that's there you have a habit or you don't. It's quite embarrassing when when your kid goes to somebody else's house say and I was picking up a flow from a play date once and I said everything okay you know when I picked her up she said when I asked her if she wanted broccoli, she replied, can I just have it blanched, please? Well, that happened is a bit similar, but we've got a fairly decent-sized garden,

nothing too spectacular, but my mom and dad's house, very small. The garden, it's like tiny, it's really small, a really small garden, quite similar to one I grew up in. And my mom said, do you want to go into the garden and then they went and stood in the garden and my dog said nanny where's the garden I know my mom was like it's here you little bitch is this is all we got so she said she's gonna take her over the park

next time and go this is my garden actually I was I got confused this is the God. Back to school signals a fresh start for students. New classmates, new teachers, new lessons. Change is in the air. But one thing hasn't changed. The forward government still isn't investing in public schools. Six years of cuts mean our students aren't getting the supports they need. They can't wait another year. If the forward government won't change, it's time to change the government. Our kids are counting on us. Join us at Building Better Schools.C.A. A message from the Elementary Teachers Federation

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With deals this good, everyone wants to be a student. Join for just $4.99 a month. Savings may vary. Eligibility and member terms apply. We got some questions from listeners and from fans, Philip, before that, I just wanted, I wanted to do a quick quiz question for Rob based on your book, which is you talk about the three times. I mean, I'm showing myself in such a bad light here once again I'm gonna show me in a bad light you talk about the three types of consciousness is something we're gonna work on yeah yeah he's got no he doesn't back himself enough does he Philip I mean he's too modest he's trying to mock himself before we get in there I think and then you're prejudging the question mocking that's what it is. Sorry, Josh, carry on.

Be aware, I can hear you both when you're having a conversation without me. It's really, it feels really powerful double teaming someone with a psychotherapist. I've never felt so secure in an argument. I'm getting you later, Rob. I know. There's a lot going on here. So there's, you talk about the three types of arguing that parents, tha, tha, tha, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, the tho, the the the thin, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to to to to to to to to thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their, thin, their, their, their, thin, their, tho, their, tho. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, to to to their, their, th's you talk about the three types of arguing that parents can do between themselves and I wanted Rob to guess which one I read and went oh my God that is exactly what I do. Okay good fun. Okay the three arguing styles so the first one you call look squirrel. Yes this is the distracting arguing style so when your wife comes in and goes Christ you've been here all day tothis is the distracting arguing style.

So when your wife comes in and goes, Christ, you've been here all day and you haven't done the washing up, you go, look, there's a squirrel! Rather than, you know, addressing the issue. The issue. We call that the distractor style, or look squirrel indeed. Yeah, I love that style. That's my favourite.

Next. There is the being a martyr. Yeah, being a martyr, sort of like, oh I see you haven't done the washing up. Oh, well I'll do it, I suppose. And then the third one, I don't you've given it a title, but if you could describe the third one. Well, the other one is when you got you filthy pig, you just go straight into attack mode. So. So. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their. Uh. Uh. Uh. Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, their, their, the, their, thele but if you could describe the third one. Well there's the other one is when you got you filthy pig you just go straight into attack mode so you come in the washing-ups hasn't been done you filthy pig you're disgusting you repulsed me with your stuck-on cereal from this bowl. That's a psychic zooming with my wife at the moment she's very much in that category. Would you like to both guess which of those I felt I was and it was a very confronting paragraph to read? I don't know you very well Josh. I would be hesitant to put you in a

little box there. I know Josh doesn't like conflict but I also know he has very strong opinions on stuff. So I don't think you'd be full distraction. I think you might be a bit martyry and you're sort of a little bit passive aggressive in it. So you've made your point, but not forcefully. Do you know what, you are correct? I realized during lockdown I'd become the full, full martyr argument. Oh, that's the most, I haven't done the washing up since I'm done I'm martyred myself once since I read that.

No that was something that really spoke to me. Full on cooperation and compromise now aren't you? Yes. Yes haven't had an argument since I would love to be able to say that but it's not true. Sometimes like you say you need to set to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their to to their their to to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their tho. tho. thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. their. their. their. to say that, but it's not true. Sometimes, like you say, you need to set boundaries and this is what we do and then you decide on those boundaries and then talk your child through the sort of reason, don't have to justify it but explain why that's happening. But the reason you talk your child through though, it's really important that into the road it's dangerous it's don't run into the road because it terrifies me. Yes. Do it as an eye statement. You define yourself rather than the child or even the situation. I mean sometimes you define the situation but normally define yourself talk about your own feelings about

it like I'll feel worried if you go out in the rain without an umbrella because I'm worried you'll get cold so humor me and take your umbrella. Yeah, so you think that's the best approach? Do you think that's the best approach? Fair enough. So for example, when I want my daughter to school, okay, on a scooter, she goes on her scooter and then in the school grounds grounds there's like these little slopes that come out of sort of classrooms down and she wants to go down the slope on her scooter, okay, which and I my thoughts is I don't really want her doing that one because there's cars part there, there's other people walking down this path and I I sort of think, from a respect to point of view, you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you, you their you, you th, you're in th, you're in th, you're in th, you're in th, you're in to to to to to th th that, that, th to to to to go in, to go in to go in to go in to go to go to go to go to go to go, to go to go, to go th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th th, th th, th th th th th th th th that's th that's that's that, that's that's that's that's that's that's the, that's that's that's the that's the the an thean, that's that's that, that, that, that, that, that, that a way to get to school, but it's not a park to playing, it's the school grounds, okay? Which I don't know, so I don't know, so that's

what I've decided upon in my head. And then, to be fair, it doesn't really suggest the slope on her own, it's when there's other kids there to start doing it. And I'll say, no, let's not go down to the park at the weekend, we can put your helmet on and then you can go and we'll find some slopes and we'll play, but now we're on the way to school. That's the sort of position I've got myself in. But I don't know now. I'm thinking, am I being too harsh for that isn't quite the reason. It's sort of like basically I don't want you playing on the slope with your scooter because it makes me uncomfortable. That's it. Why does it make uncomfortable then you can say those

rules but don't leave yourself out of that equation. Yes. She will be able to empathize with feeling uncomfortable or feeling scared. Yeah. She will argue, no it's fine, look, you know, Macy and Pacey are going on the slopes and going between the cars. And you can say, well they're making me uncomfortable too and I don't want you to make me uncomfortable as well. Yeah, so bring it back to your own feelings. Bring it back to your own feelings each time because it's so much easier to hear. And also there's no arguing th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th no th th no th no thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th th th thi, th th th thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to your own feelings each time because it's so much easier to hear. And also there's no arguing with that. If you feel uncomfortable with her mucking about in the schoolyard on the scooter,

that's reason enough. Yeah. Because you feel uncomfortable. And then she'll learn to talk about her own feelings because you'll give her that model. So when you say, come on let's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their because you'll give her that model. So when you say, come on, let's go to this party or whatever, she will say, no, I feel uncomfortable doing that and then you can say why. And you said because, you know, that boy bullies me or whatever it is. Okay. It's like any relationship, honesty is the same way.

to be a marriage, honesty for me is such an important part of it where everyone knows where they stand and it's the same thing if you're fostering that relationship with your kid it's been it's like I don't you go down that slope because I'm you know comfortable with you doing it because you ever got a helmet on you might slip crack your open and I've got a really busy day so if we're an A&E all day this is going to be a disaster a disaster a disaster a disaster a disaster a disaster a disaster a disaster this is a disaster this going this going this going this going this a scaredy cat rather than tell her she's going to crack her head. Because I read she can manage that slope just fine even without a helmet. Yeah, exactly. But you on the other hand are a bit scared.

That's fine when you fear. Yeah, okay. But don't tell us going to crack a help ahead. It's not even the slope is dangerous. It's more like, from from the the the the the the the the the the the the th th. I I I I I th. I th. I th. I th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, you tho, you the, you the, you're tho, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, tho, you tho, you the, you the, you, you the, you the, you the, you th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I the, you the, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't the. the. the. the. thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. You can No, to be fair, it's not even, it's not even the slope is dangerous. It's more like it's, it's like, from my own point of view, is like, if you go on the school grounds, you should be using school to get to school, not to be playing around. I know a lot of reasons for it, but we'll just stick with you being uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable. I just my new thing. I don't want to do to do that that to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do that. to do that. to do to do that. I that. I that. I'm that. I'm their their their their own their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do their their their to do their tho. I tho. I to thoooooooooooooooooooomcooom. th. thoooooooooooooooooo. th. th uncomfortable with that. Well Philip said I don't really need to explain but I can give you a long list. I'm just a bit uncomfortable with that idea is that okay? Like I'd like to negotiate this because I don't feel like going round because they're too posh for me and I feel inferior and then yeah.

God she's really got you there Rob that's absolutely bullseye. Oh yeah Philip has got my number. I'm sorry I that was a guess I've no idea it was bullseye I'm so sorry. Oh nice straight on the 50 point of there. So this is a question from my friend Efa who has a four-year-old called Cora she says should I stay out of her friendship dynamics the friendship dynamics of an insane insane four-year-olds, they're all endlessly being nice to then suddenly rejecting each other and it's very hard to see it when it's your own kid. The kids themselves never seem to give a shit so should you just not bring it up with them afterwards unless they mention it? I think if they mention it then you can say if your kids are unhappy because their best friends

stop talking to them, and oh my God, that is the end of your world. That is a big deal. Imagine if Rob stopped talking to you, Josh. You'd be really hurt, wouldn't you? I mean, to be the matter of talk, it's just a probability that I will talk at him at some point. So I believe that your child led on this, but that means if your child looks unhappy but hasn't brought it up, you can say what's up and if they say Sophia isn't talking to me anymore rather than, right, I'm going to go and sort this out with Suffolk I'm not.

Because that's my initial, I go into sort of like rage. That actually doesn't help. What helps is if you ask the kid, what are you going to do about this? What do you think we can do or you can do? She said, well, I'll be sad for a while, but I suppose I could play with Josh instead? You go, well, I know he's at work. I'm th a th a th. I won th a th. I won th. I won thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi that thi that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that I go I go th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th th th th th th th th that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that, I they'll play. I suppose I could play with Josh instead and you go, yes, I know he's at work at the moment. I'm sure that will be fine. Yeah. I suppose also as well that I've noticed as well is when you say, oh we're doing this or we're doing that and they ask can I do this or do that whether it is and you go oh no we're not doing that and they're go oh no we're not doing that and they'll go well insert name well you know Simon's allowed to do that but at the moment I don't I don't care what Simon does I think nothing that you could say well Simon's daddy probably doesn't mind if he breaks his skull in half but I really care about yours no that would be

that would be too aggressive that would be that would be manipulative just keep it honest. Like well Simon's dad's got more children you can probably afford to lose one. Whatever it is. Do you want some questions from our Instagram followers and listeners? Love that. Yeah this one maybe laugh. Is it acceptable to stick your finger up at your kid behind their back? Well it's interesting isn't it? I think that's not going your kid behind their back? Well, it's interesting, isn't it? Because I think that's not going to solve their problem, is it? I think the trouble is, as if you go like that, I mean, I'm sticking my finger in the air,

hide your kids back. What you're not doing is you're not going, what is the child triggering in me? Why am I angry? What was I like like like like like like that? that? that? that? that? that? that? that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that I that I that I that I that's that's that's that I that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's? I? I? I? I? I? I? I? I I? I? I? I? I? I? I? I that's that's that's that's the the the the the thi? I? I? I? I? I thi? I thi? I thi? I thi? I thi? I thiiiii? I thiiiiiii? I thiiioliioli? I thi? I thi? I thi? in me? Why am I angry? What was I like at his age? Oh, I remember I, unless I finished my meal, I got my knuckles wrapped. So I am associating not finishing my food with humiliation. This is why I feel unreasonably angry when they leave a bit of food or whatever it is because what makes our kids angry is usually some humiliation or or sadness that we suffered at their age and rather than revisit that because we don't want to feel that again we just get angry with the kid. So I think when you're angry with your kid, the thing is to be curious about why this is triggering for you. And once you've got the hang of that, then you won't be triggered so much because quite often

the trigger belongs in the past and not the present. Yeah. I had that. I found that what was really triggering me, and I don't know why. Which, what I was finding frustrating was my daughter wouldn't, when she found drawing something difficult or she found, she went for a stage basically where, because she wasn't able to draw what she wanted to, she never wanted to do it, and she'd just ask you to do the drawing for her. And I was like, why is this such a trigger? Why is this such a big trigger for me? And I was talking to my wife about it, because obviously she was fine with it, as you would be. But there was something in me, where I was like, there's something, there, there, there, there, there, there, there,. Like I I think it might be that part of my approach to life is that I really

try and really push myself to do stuff and like really try and challenge myself and stuff and I don't know. What happened to you when you were small and you said I can't do this? I don't know because I was trying to think that when I read in the book I was I can't I I I can't I can't I can't I can't th I can't th I can't th I can't th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I think it might thi. I think it might think it might thi. I think it might thi. I thi. I think it might thi. I thi thi thi thi thi small and you said I can't do this? I don't know because I was trying to think that when I read in the book I was like I can't think what that is. I mean I had a similar thing that when my daughter was learning how to tie shoelaces and she couldn't do it I felt this anger come up in me and I wanted to say just let me do that you know I just wanted to grab a to grab. to grab. to grab. to grab. the to grab. the to grab the to grab the the to grab the the to grab to grab to grab the to grab the to grab the to grab the to grab their. I'm just to to to to to to their. to the their. their. I'm just to just to just to just to just to just. I'm just to just. I'm just just to just to just just. I was just their. I was just their. I was just their. I was just the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. I was the. I'm just try. I'm just try. I'm just try. I'm just try. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just try. I'm just to grab the shoe off and do it. And I just felt furious and really impatient and I thought, whoa, what's this about? And when I look back on it, I realized that that's exactly what my father did to me. When I couldn't do my shoes up, he got so bored of waiting for me. He just said, oh, let me do it like that. And that was deeply humiliating. And I think sometimes we can find our child's incompetence, you know, because they can't handle a pencil properly or they can't do up their shoelaces.

Really frustrating because it reminds us of our own incompetence when we were that age. And when your older sister can do it and your parents can do it and you still can't tie your shoelaces up or whatever it is or draw the picture. It can, those feelings were everything to us at the time. I mean now if you can't do something you're not flooded with humiliation you just say teach me how to do this again but then you might have been. And we forget that we're now adults and we can cope with a bit of humiliation or we can cope even with remembering it. But our unconscious selves feels like it will take us right back down to when we were super humiliated or felt terribly incompetent or whatever it was. And that's why we have this little rage that comes up because it protects us from feeling that humiliation. So I'm guessing you got cross when she said

draw me a car or whatever it was because your body even if you can't remember your body remembers not been able to draw a car and how frustrating or humiliating or incompetent feeling that made you feel. I've never been good at drawing so there's every chance. It's stuck with you. You forget those moments because you become an adult and you just tie your shoes without thinking. Yeah, it's only when you're confronted with a person you're teaching the world that you go. Oh yeah, that was it. Yeah, it comes flooding back and I find that with little opens tiny little things. I think everyone has buried at certain points and you know, for example scooters my daughter's got a three-wheeled scooter and then you know some kids are aged on a two-wheeled one or a three-wheeled one and we've just got it then she's not as confident on it and then we've

just got the bigger version of the three-wheel scooter so it's more stable because she's not very confident on bikes and stuff like that and we're like oh no we're not going to get in this sort of this sort this sort this sort this sort this sort this sort the the the the the the to to to to to to the to to to to the to the to to the to to the th I I I to th I to to thrown to to to to thrown to thrown to to to to to to to to to to th th th the th th th th th th one th one th one th one th one th one th one th one th one th th th th th th to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th to th th th th the the the the the thrown thrown thrown thrown the the thrown the the the the thrown the thrown the the thrown the the the the able to ride a bike, who gives a shit. You know what I mean? So it needs to be, if she's happy and confident and is even going to join that scooter, that's way more important than, but at that age, she should be doing that, or that age, you should be drawing a car, at that age, you should be tie the laces. You feel it coming up in you. I wish it was on the two two, I'm, I'm, I'm, to, to, to, to, to, to, thua, to, thin, to, thin, to, to, thin, thin, thin, to, thin, to, thin, to be, to be, to be, to be, to, thin, to to be, to to to to to to to to to thee, thian, thian, thian, thian, thian, thian, thian, thian, thian, th and th and th and th and th and th and thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, to be to to to to be to to to me, to me, to to to to to to to to to to to thin, thin, thin, as well, like just trying to, not even about my kids, just about the way I approach work and poverty mindset and that kind of stuff have not, and sort of knowing my value enough so I'm not just thinking it's like imposter syndrome and stuff like that. So I've done stuff like that and worked on me a little bit where I feel this little energy that just builds this rush of red that if it's like something, and I, and I, to to their, to to their, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I'm, I'm, I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I'm, and I, and I, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, th.. And, th. And, thi, thin, th sort, th sort, thu. And, th sort, th sort, th sort, thuuuuuu. And, th. And, thi. And, thi, thi, thito do and I've transferred that to the kids is sit with the feeling and because the feeling is not facts it's not what's happening it's just how your body feels at that

moment and just sit on it but before I wouldn't sit on it I'd go right how can I solve this how can I change it but now but now I'm learning to just sit on it an I find that helps me and I that that that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps me me me me me that helps me that helps me that helps me that helps me that helps me and I that helps me that helps me and I that helps me and I that helps me and I that helps me and I that helps me and I that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps me and I that helps me and I that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that helps that that that that that that that that that I that I that helps me and I that helps me and I that I th me and I th me and I th me and I've started with the girls trying to get them to sort of breathe a little bit, just sit with it, and I think that your first thought isn't always your best thought of that situation. It's better to sit on it and just hold that feeling. And so what does it matter if they're doing that before another kid or after it, as long as they happen, That's the main thing, you know, but it's learning that process. It's like there's almost a bit of you that, you know, your inner four-year-old is a bit merged

with her and what you felt at her age can come flooding up. And we know when we're being triggered by the past because you do get like, you said, this sort of sudden little charge of emotion. What's that about? And your idea of sitting with it is just fine and very good? Oh thanks, Philip. Well, I think maybe I've grown up, I can imagine someone going, you can't ride a bike yet. I could ride a bike at your age. Yeah, I don't know if someone said that to me.

But it might have been in there, you know, and stuff like that. Yeah, I think that's to say as you grow with your child with the child, thapap old the child thia thia thia thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thin, thatathea that, I'm that, I'm that, I that, I'm that, I'm th. I'm that's that's that's that's growing that's growing that's growing that's growing that's growing growing that's growing growing that's growing that's that's that's that's th. I'll that, I'll that, I'll that, I'll that, I that that that th. I that that thi thi thin thin thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I've the the the the thea. I've thea. I've thea. I've theaugh, I've the that the the the that's th say, as you grow with your child, all those little things come back. I remember trying to have a shave for the first time, and I remember getting into like a razor and do it, and I cut my lip a bit, and I can still now, vividly remember, coming because I've got four brothers, sitting in the front of him and I was sort of, cover the touch, I didn't want want, I'm sit, I'm to cover, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm a they, I'm a their, I'm, I'm going, I'm going, and I'm a their, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, and I, I, and I, and I, and I, and I, I, I, I, I, I, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I'm a, like, like, I'm a, I'm a, like, I'm a, I'm a, like, I'mto four boys, and they're like, Uanka, thought he had a beard, I haven't got a beard, you little prick, and it would be that. So I was sitting there and I can still vividly remember that little moment, and it's different that, you know, so I think it does take you back

to moments where you had on you. Luckily, Rob, you've got two girls, so you're not going to have to revisit the shaving nightmare. You never know. You never know. Silent Night is a new British crime thriller out now on all digitals. I haven't got choice. They're blackmailing me. The only they got three brothers, three rings.

This money could could set up Daisy for life. Bang, bang, bang. Bang, it should be easy for a man in your abilities. Markie, if my family goes down, it won't be the only one. They won't stop contacting you. They want you, they'll just keep going. You know as well as I do, Mark. This won't end well.

Tell me, when did killing people become so hard market? If I could give her one good Christmas, I'd die a happy man. Rent or buy on demand, iTunes, Amazon, Sky, Virgin, Rakitan, Google and PlayStation. And in supermarkets on DVD 28 for December, Get your copy, Now. Oh, I've got one here quickly from Red Fox Jody. DVD 28 for December. Get your copy now. Oh I've got one here quickly from Red Fox Jody. How nine month old girl Robin keeps chewing and eating cardboard boxes. How do we stop this? I mean that's a quick one just don't put boxes nearer. You've got it Rob. Just take the couple boxes away. I don't answer for you Philip

but I think that's a just keep her away from cardboard boxes. What food is a bit like cardboard box? It's sort of like a rusk or something. Yeah. It's the great phrase. Boxes aren't for eating. Rusks are for eating. So you swap one for the other.

Or hide all cardboard box. Or just give them a plastic box. Good luck with that gummies. Okay, this is from Emily. So Emily's got two children. How do you be patient and child-led when you have two children wanting something different at the same time? Okay, I am not child-led.

I am relationship- It's a key difference. I'm relationship. So you've got one kid that wants to go to the park and one kid that wants to go to the swimming pool, right? Yeah. So we just sit everybody down or whatever we're doing. Oh, we have a problem. Billy wants to go to the park. Lorry wants to go to John Lewis or whatever it is. And Mommy wants to go to sayainsbury's. So some people are not going to get what they want. So somebody's going to be sad and someone's going to be happy. Well, I think we're going to Sainsbrize and I'm very sorry kids,

you're not getting your own way. Or if one wants one thing and one wants the other, this isn't a battle where somebody wins and loses. So how can we all win? And brainstorm with the children. We're not going to play winners and losers, so how can we all win? Maybe we can find a third activity that's a compromise or something, you know. Bring them all in with the process, always. Yeah. And, you know, getting to talk about how they feel. I mean, what I usually do in that situation, because believe it or not not it still happens that my husband wants

one thing and my child wants another and they're both very entrenched in their position and they're looking to need to solve it out so they're a couple of siblings. I'm like I'm torn in bloody half and I just say this is a problem and they do come to a compromise. I mean he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he th th th is thi thi is thi is thi is thi is th is th is th is the is the is thi is thi is the is the is tho- tho----o-o-o--o-o-m-m-m-m-m-m is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is the is the the the the the the to the to to to toeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeean toeeeeeeeeee thoooo tho the the a problem and they do come to a compromise. I mean he's 60 now so he's getting very mature at this sort of thing. With the Saint-Dris thing though as well if you, you know, the kids want to go to two separate places and you want to go to the shops and go to Sanjury's. Like when you say that you go this is what we're doing, you're not going to be upset, but this is what we're doing. That doesn't mean to say the kids are going to go, oh okay, they may have a meltdown, but and they'll learn from that because that's just what happens. Well, you know, I don't know if they'll

learn from it or not the park, but if they have a three-way cuddle at that I'm going to Sainsbriz and not the park and you know just have a three-way cuddle at that point. Yeah. I mean, you're not doing anything awful, you're just going to different shops. It's just more of a power play sometimes. I once had, my daughter was having such a meltdown in in Sainsbury's once. I think it was because I wouldn't let her eat the grapes that weren't washed. I can't remember what it was. You'd. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I'm the th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I th. I th. I th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm just theeeei. I'm just th. I'm just theeei. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just't washed. I can't remember what it was, but I'd... You pick your boundary and it was a dirty grape. And I just, I just said, oh I can't be bothered. I left the whole hot, full trolley and walked out of the shop with the child. I don't know why I wasn't done for abducting children because I had her under my arm and every limb was sort of going all direction. At that point, Philip, how was you feeling though? Because obviously that would, is that

something you'd recommend? I was feeling a bit mortified because I realized that I'd forgotten to give her a nap and she was overtired, so it was all my fault. So I was feeling a little bit mortified. But then we had a great takeaway dinner so that was nice. Is that something you you think there was an anomaly where it didn't cause you didn't give her the nap It sort of went a bit sideways or is that a fair way to handle that situation if a kid has a meltdown Would you just take about the shop or should you know I wouldn't prescribe anything? It's just that if a kid has a meltdown? I'd say be kind don't be oppositional. If the kid's having any feelings in fact be kind don't be oppositional because if the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid the kid. the kid. It's the kid. It's the the kid's the the th the kid's th to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th the thi thi the the the thi the thi the the thi the thi the the thi thi thi the thi thi, be kind, don't be oppositional. Because if the kid says, I don't want to put my coat on, you go, you really don't want to put your coat, and here are my worried that you're going to get cold. Okay, I tell you what, we'll go out and I'll hold the coat, and if you want it, you can put it on. You know, rather than getting in a fight, the fight was just a waste of time.

So I feel like it's like steering into the skid. When you're, before we had ABS brakes, if you got on an ice patch and you started to go towards the wall, your instinct is to get the steering wheel and go in the opposite direction, but the momentum of the car is still taking you to the wall so it doesn't work but if you steer into the skid then you can drive out of the skid because the wheels are going in the direction of motion so when you turn them they go and that's the same with the tantrum or feelings or anything go with it so you can steer out of it. Obviously that example with the coat when you're saying like their their ature is different and maybe they genuinely don't want to wear the coat because it

would be too hot and stuffy for them and they're running around that park but there must be examples where sometimes that can just be used as a get my own way almost sort of power play and then why would you be having power plays unless you've taught that you learn a power play. It's not something that's in your instinct. It's something they've seen within the household. Or had put on them, yeah. Okay. So when you want to get your way with a kid, because you think they can't get their own way,

you are actually teaching them how to be stubborn and it will come right back at you. When you are thoughtful, kind, empathetic, take your time, you'll get that back at you. She did go to Sainsbrize and get my shopping, even if she wouldn't break the rules and come into the house. She's nice, you know. Yeah. And if she wasn't nice, she would have give you a cuddle, because that would be the worst thing

she could be about. We always ask this question at the end of the podcast about if there's anything that frustrates you about your partner and their parenting that you have never said to them because it will cause a row but it's something it's a fair comment and if they were to listen to the podcast and pick up on it they would go oh yeah that is fair I'll stop doing that is there anything do you would like to get off your chest now that you've not been able to about the way your your husband parents? No. No, I think it's nothing. I mean after being in therapy for about 25 years myself and having loads of other people in therapy with me for about 30 years, you'd think wouldn't you that be able to talk to my husband about something that bothers me? and I think I have and I think we're good. I'm so sorry I haven't th I haven't th I haven't th th th th th th th I haven't th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi's thi's thi's thi's nothing thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi that's nothing it's nothing it's nothing it's nothing it's nothing it's nothing it's nothing thi's nothing thi's nothing thi thi's thi's th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi's nothing thi thi's nothing thi thi thi thi thi to to thi to to thi to thi thiiiiiiiiiiiiiii to nothing nothing to thiiiii thiii thi thi thi thi thi thi th able to talk to my husband about something that bothers me. And I think I have and I think we're good. I'm so sorry I haven't got anything more. Well, no, that's I mean that's the

tree, that's why you can write this book because you aren't harboring anger over teetals or muslins being left in a drawer or something. It's hard to disagree with a psychotherapist a book about parenting. Like actually. I I I idea. You say what you're feeling is and you say why and and then you say what you want. So complaint with a recommendation. Oh wow, I'll tell you what, I'm going to adopt complaint with recommendation with Louise this week and then report back. Like when you put a boundary down with a child, make it into a nice statement. Don't say you are ridiculous to leave the bib on the tap, but if you say I don't like the bib on the tap because of my particular neurosis. So it would help you a lot if you'd leave it here instead.

Yeah. So I've got a good one that I can work out now. I can say, Lou, this is my, was it, was it a complaint? So the complaint is, Louise, whenever, you know, the kids are in bed and the house is all nice and clean and tidy and you go out for the night and you grab your going out bag, once you put your purse in it, you empty the entire contents of that bag on the dining room table and then th.... the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their the their their their their their their complaint is. their complaint is. their complaint. the complaint. the complaint. the complaint. the complaint. the complaint. the complaint. the complaint. the complaint. the complaint. the complaint. the complaint. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thananananan. I. I is. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's toda. today is. today is. today is. today is. the the today is. the the the the the the canteantea. the that quite annoying when it's all clean and tidy a recommendation don't fucking do it. Or put it in a drawer but that happens right in our house. I have bought you this beautiful bejewed box and I would like it if. Yeah you can put your mint the car keys crushed up pom bears pombears in it, rather than on the dining table.

And probably in the box. A bejewed box. A bejewed box so you can put all that. That's a recommendation. Philip, it's been amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Philip. The book again. Oh yeah, my book is the book you wish your parents had read and your children will be glad

that you did and you'll just have the best life in this book. No more arguing, no more chores, you'll just enjoy yourself all day long, everything's a walk in the park and when you're not enjoying yourself you'll learn to accept your other feelings as well. It's great. I'm gonna beto be honest, Philip, it genuinely has had a huge positive impact on my life and my relationship with my daughter. So thank you very much for that. And I love you for saying that, thank you Josh. No, genuinely, thank you. Most of the questions that come in, one question said, I haven't got a question. I just want to say it's the best book about parenting ever written. So you've got a lot of fans Philippa. So definitely grab that book. And thank you so much for that. Thank you so much Philippa.

And it's out in paperback from the 31st of December. One last question is do you think we need to change the name of our podcast to save our children having issues in a future life? Please. But what I would tho th say say say say th say th say th say th say th say th say th say th say th say to to to th say to th say to th say to tho the the tho tho the the. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. that you that you th. tho. th. th. Thank you so th. Thank you so th. Thank you so much th. Thank you so much. Thank th. Thank th. th. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I'm tha. I tha. I'm. I'm. I'm th. I'm. I'm th. I'm th. tha. I'm say is it does really help you know sort of comedically and get get clicks and likes doesn't it the name? What should we change it? Children the butt of our jokes. Yeah that's such a great idea for their self-esteem. Oh no! Oh no what have we done Josh could be negotiated to purgatory? Yeah well we'll have to think of that now. I think if you've told us it's going to affect our our our our our our our the the the their their their their their their their to to to to to to to to to to to to to their. to to to to their c. to to to to to their c. their clicks. their cl. their clicks. to to their clicks. to c. to c. to c. to c. to get. their cl. their c. their c. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the. the. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. t. t. tog. to. tog. tog. to. to. t. tog. to. to. to. the. the well we'll have to think of that now. I think if you've told us it's going to affect our children, do you have to change the name of it? The problem is now, I'm never going to be able to think about, I mean, we are going to have to change it now, I mean, that's it.

That's it. Philip, I think you've said, if if if if if to to to say, if to say, if to say, if to say, if to say, if to say, if to say, to say, to say, to say, if to say, if to say, if too, too, if you said, if you said, if you said, if you said, if you said too, too, if you're to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the their. their. the problem, if the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem, to they. too, too, they. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. the too. the too. to. the problem. the problem, the problem, the problem, the to his house into your name he'd go yeah it's probably quite a good idea actually probably a good way forward yeah I think you've got a lot of sway over just Trinicum. Thank you very much Philippa. I'm really glad I came because I've had a lovely time. Oh brilliant thank you so much Philippa. Josh you are I've never seen you like this you're just it's like you've just just met Elvis. Do you know what when I met Blurr I was equally th. It th. It th. It's th. It's just liked. It's just liked. It's just liked. It's just liked. It's just liked. It's just liked. It's just liked. It's just liked. It's just liked. It's just liked. It's just like like liked. It's just like like th. It's like th. It's just liked. It's like to to to to to to to to to to th. It's just liked. It's liked. It's liked. It's liked. It's liked. It's liked. It's liked. It's liked. It's liked. It's like th. It's like th. It's like th. It's like the the th. It's like th. It's like th. It's like like like like like like th. It's like like th. It's like th. It's like th. It's like th. It's like th. I's like th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm like th. I th. I th. I was equally tongue-tied. Also, I saw your face getting livid when I said a couple of things and Philip was like, yeah, I think that's a good way to do it. You were scrapped on it. You were absolutely. You were turning on the parenting performance of a lifetime.

It was unbelievable. I really took it up a few notches. It was genuinely, it was like watching Pellayay the pa thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the the the the up a few notches. It was genuinely, it was like, what do you describe parenting? It was like watching a palae describe his best goals. It was unbelievable. Oh dear, but that was great though, she's so, it's so interested. You've read the book, Lou, my wife's read the book and I've read bits of it and Lou has repeated that book at me to the point where I felt like I've listened to the audio book, like I've th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. L like I've th. L like I've th. L. L. L. L. L. L. L. Li. L. L. Li. L. L. L. L. L. L. L. L. Lu, I've took, I've took, I've took, I've th. th. th. their, their, their, their, their, their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. I've their. I've their. I've their. I've their. I've, I've, I've their. I've. I've their. I've t. I've t. I've tole. I've tole. I've toleteer. I've. I've. I've. I've. I've. I've. I've. P. I've. P. I've. I've. I've tole. I've t. I've that Philip is like quite Zen and a therapist and she goes, know about all kids need to be engaged with, they've learned that behavior before, but sometimes I do look at a kid and think you're a fucking prick mate. Do you know what I mean? Not your own. Not my own, but some kids you look at and say as a type of kid that I think you cannot engage with. Rob I need to to ask you what to to to to to their to to to to to to to to to their. to to to to to their. to to to to their. to to to to to to to to to to to to to be to to be to be to me. to be to be to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me, to me, to me, to me, to me, to be their their their their their their their their their their their their their, their their their, their, their their their their their their their their toldlde. told. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. told. told. told. to me, their their the need to ask you what we're going to do. What's your views on the title? I mean I totally get what she's saying. I don't feel like we moan about our kids too. It's more about our own issue. We don't ever blame our children in this podcast but now I am conflicted

whether it is a bad image that as the children grow older and they go like, oh I heard about your dad moaning about you on a podcast that my mom and dad listen to. Imagine hearing that at school. Yeah. But then if you don't talk about our kids what we're gonna do? I would argue that and I think this is true that listening to the podcast and I think we're very careful with that. Also as well then there's the argument that how much you talk about one stage as well. Jerry Seinfeld says says says says says it it it says says it says it's says it's says it's says it's says it's says it's says it's it's says it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's that it's says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says says it's says it's says it's says. It's says. It's says. It's says. It's a that it's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a f. It's a f. It's a f. It's a f. It's a f. It's a that that that that that that that that that that that that's a that's a that's a like it's a family effort to pay the bills. But it's just can we earn enough money through this that we can afford the therapy? That's the balance isn't it? What kind of loss or gain would we get? But anyway, we'll have to think about the name. Anyway, thanks to Filippa Perry's book. The book you wish your parents had read and your children will be glad that you did is out on the 31st of December in paperback.

It's quite interesting with all the questions we got for Philippa Josh that you can definitely tell there's a weird split of our audience for this podcast because there was people going, best book I've ever read, some questions I didn't get time to do was like how do you deal with a sibling of an autistic child in the complex need of that child and my, my, I've got these stepkids and all these really intricate family stuff and then there was also people that said fuck off Beckett to feud. So I can't, I just don't know an Instagram account that has these worlds colliding. It's like it's mental it's like a waste supporting Michael Boubley at Wembley. Can you imagine the cue for the bar? Yeah, so anyway, thank you for all your questions. Sorry we didn't get through them. Hopefully we'll try and

get Philip back once we change. I think we'd have to change the name before that though. Right. See you next week. Yes, bye.