Parenting Hell with Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe - S02 EP39: Helen Russell

Episode Date: June 4, 2021

ROB BECKETT & JOSH WIDDICOMBE'S 'LOCKDOWN PARENTING HELL' -S02 EP39: Helen RussellJoining us in the studio this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) during the lockdown and beyond is the brilliant journalist and author, Helen Russell. Helen has written a number of best selling books inclusding The Year Of Living Danishly · Leap Year · Gone Viking · The Atlas Of Happiness · How To Be SadEnjoy. Rate and Review. Thanks. xxx If you want to get in touch with the show here's how:EMAIL: [e-mail]: @lockdownparent INSTAGRAM: @lockdown_parentingA 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Looking for a collaborator for your career, a strong ally to support your next level success, you will find it at York University School of Continuing Studies, where we offer career programs purpose-built for you. Visit continue. York you.C.A. I'm going back to University for zero-dollar delivery fee, up to 5% off orders and 5% Uber cash back on rides not whatever you think university is for get Uber won for students with deals this good everyone wants to be a student joined for just 499 a month savings may vary eligibility

and member terms apply hello I'm Josh Whitakam welcome to lock down welcome to lockdown the show in which Rob and I to be a parent during lockdown which I would say can be a little tricky. So in an effort to make some kind of sense of the current situation. And to make me feel better about my increasingly terrible parenting skills. Each episode will be chatting to a famous parent about how well they're coping. Or hopefully not. And we will be hearing from you the listener with your tales of lockdown parenting woe. Because let's be honest, none of us know what we're doing. Hello and welcome to lockdown parent in hell with. Can you say Josh Widdicum?

Josh Wiggintoo. And Rob Beckett. Rob Beckett. Good boy. There we go. That was absolutely exceptional. Um, who is that? Oh dear. Oh, well, I'll tell you what that was in a minute.

That was George, who is two. And that is, well I'll tell you what that was in a minute. That was George who is two. And that is from Jess Beddingfield, surely not a relative. Well, do you know what I was going to say? She had a lovely voice. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's because, you know, but I really enjoyed her saying, thrown, thrown. Is this your favorite recording of a bedding, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too.a, too.a, too. And, too. And, too, too, to? Can you play that again? Yeah, do you want to play that again? Yeah. Is this your favorite ever recording of a beddingfield? I think so.

You say, Josh Widdickham. Josh Wiggint too. And Rob Beckett. Good boy. Good boy. Good boy. How's that? How's that? I just think that's the best best best best best best the best best best best best best best the best best best best best best best the best best best best best best best the best best the best best best best best best best the best best best best best best the best best best best best the best best best best best best the best best best best the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their their their their the the the the the the the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. the best. th. th. th. the. the. theat. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. thi. thi. thi know why, but that stirred some emotions in me the same ways Michael gets fan mail for his voice. I just think that's the best Bedinfield I've ever heard.

Yeah, that is my favorite. Oh, I don't know. I do enjoy the song these words by Natasha Beddingfield, but it's up there. Is she part of the Benningfield clan? Do email in Jess. Send a voice. How are you, Joshua? We've made a bad purchase, Rob. Oh no. I went to drop some stuff at the charity shop a few weeks ago. I took my daughter and I said you can have one thing from the charity shop. First mistake? Yeah.

But I thought, you know, nice thing to do. Yeah. She settled on a keyboard from I'd say about 1985. Lovely, very Widdickon. An early learning center keyboard. Oh this is so bomb brand. And she's not really been into music much before but now she's absolutely obsessed with the demos on this keyboard. What's the point of learning the keyboard when the demos on there? Exactly. To the point where Rose was breastfeeding and my daughter came in and said, would you like to listen to some music? Rose sat there breastfeeding, she's like, yeah. And my

daughter just puts the keyboard down and goes... So I reckon I hear this tune 20 times a day Rob. Not just that one. It feels like you're constantly on hold. Oh, that's a banger. Oh, that's a banger. It's destroying my life. Right, you've got options here. What are my options?

Lose it? I can't lose it, Rob. She's just got a baby brother, she's struggling emotionally enough with that. This is her only thing. Okay. Right, so other options. Is there a volume on it? Yes. the other option. Is there a volume on it? Yes. Can you set it lower? Or like with it? Like, and put a bit, sort of some tape on it. to the to some, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, some. Some. Some. So, some. So, some. So, some. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, to, to, to, to, to, they. So, to, I want to photo front and back please, Josh of this and I'll tell you how to make this quieter. There must be a speaker on it and then my suggestion would be put some masking tape over the speaker and it will dull the sound. Well you'll see Rob. That's not just not possible mate. Oh no what have you got? Both the flanks. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho. tho. th. th. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho tho tho tho tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the. to to to to to to the the to to to to to to to to to to to the to the the to the the the the theanks are big speakers, Rob. I tell you what, stickers. Get some stickers. Yeah.

And why don't you play a game call, let's put, I've got lovely stickers for your new keyboard and then you can put, when she's putting stickers and you can put some over the speaker. But the speakers are huge. The speakers are huge. This is my life. Also, it's very, does it help for? Or is it make it harder to breastfeed?

What's Rose's opinion? Because it was. Well, it does add an energy to the experience, doesn't it? Yeah, it feels like psychologically you're doing it well and quick. There's a lot of food coming here, a lot of milk. It's quite like a thi- thiiiiiiiol- the their their their their their their their their. It's, th. It's, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thoom's thi, thi, is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It's, is is is is is is, is is, is, is, is is, is, is, is is, is th. It's is th. It's, is is is, is th. It's, is th. It's, is th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's thi. It's thi. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thoooooooooooooooooo. th. th. It's th. It's th. It's quite like Diddy Kong Racing or Mario Kart or something isn't it? It's a bit like that. Oh Josh. In my life it's ruined. Um we're working tonight aren't we together? Yeah the last leg 10 p.m. Channel 4 first the series. What are we going to talk about? Well, we don't know? Do we? What do you think it's going to be in the news? What do you think? What do you think? What do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? Do? th? th? th? th? th? th? th? th? th? th? th? th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th? th? th. th. th? th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the? the? the? the? the. the. th. the. th. th. th. th. th. thi. th. th. thi. th. th. thi. th. th. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Oh yeah, we might cover that. The son's out. It's a bank holiday weekend. Everyone's loving life. There is no news. I wonder if we're going to have a green room, Rob. Yeah, because it's your first one back, we're under new guidelines. Under new guidelines. I just, who knows? Who knows? What take away? What take away? What? What take? What? For a week's time? I'm the the take the take the take take take take take take take take take take take take take take take take take take take take take take take take their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. I their. I'm their their their. I'm their their. I'm their. I'm their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their their their their their their their their their their their their th. th. th. th. their their their their their their their their their their their their their And they sent me at like menus for lunch for a week's time.

This was last week. Did they? I've gone Fernandos. I've ordered a week early. It feels like a fucking wedding party. It's like when you go to one of those, have you been to one of these restaurants? It's like a big family lunch. you've got a pre-order and then like you're pre-ordering like salmon on crew for 13 weeks time. Have you been to these places where you have to order the curry like 48 hours in advance? No where's that? So you go to a place and it'll

say like there'll be a special curry that has to be 48 hours in advance? Who knows that exixting that? Yeah, I fancy Biriani on Thursday. Better order it now. But I'm looking forward to it. It'd be nice to get out of the house. Are you going to use the word stiffneck? Oh yeah, I'm going to say stiffneck as much as I can. Yeah, on your show. Okay. That'd be fun, that'd be fun, it'll be fun. It'll be fun. It'll be fun. It'll be fun. About about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about the 20 about the 20 about the 20 about the 20 about the 20 about the 20 about the 20 about the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 20 20 the 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 the 20 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 the 20 th people th 20 people th. 20 people th people th. 20 people th. 20 people th people th. 20 people th. 20 people th. 20 people th. 20 people th. 20 people the 20 people the 20 people the 20 people the and think about things, and this probably goes back into a mental load. Lou keeps talking, it's Lou's birthday in June, right, and also we're having a party for the kids in June, because we're allowed 30 people in your garden now, aren't you? Yeah. And stuff, so we're basically inviting, their schoolmates. Yeah. We're having to be quite brutal with the kids but what we're doing is we're not really inviting family yeah like cousins and stuff on both sides which seems harsh but then once you start inviting lose, lose niece and

nephews and my niece nephews it gets to like well over 30 because there's also like near enough 30 kids in the class but then with parents so it's what we're going to say it's come from two and you can leave your kids here so we're saying to leave their kids for like three hours, because we're going to get an entertainer and a bouncy castle, they can and then that will keep us under the 30. But because if everyone stays with their kids, we will go over 30 obviously. So we're doing that. But Lou keeps talking to me about it. And she goes, what you're doing that day in your diary. And what I've done th is th is th is th is th is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Lo th. Li th. Li th. Li th. Li. Li. Li. Li. th. Li. tho. that that that that that will that will tho. that will tho. that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will that will th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. L. th. L. th. L. thi. L. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thei. thei. that will that will the. the diary, you know, for the football. And I'll be honest if you, you've got to check the Euros or the World Cups on, I can't think of anything else. It's like, we're doing little things for a birthday. And they're like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, I'm doing a little thing. to the, I'm sorry, yeah, I, yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, world, the, world, the, the, world, the, the, the, the, the if I send you my diary for this day, I'll show you, we can put this on

the Instagram. It's like, I can't say yes or no because I don't know this. Whoa, Rob. I don't know who's qualified. Oh, Rob, that is a tough. Yeah, exactly. That is a tough. that, that, that, that, that, that, that, the, th. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that's. that is. that is. that is. that. that. that. that. that is. that is. that is. that is. that is. that is. that is. that is. that is. that is. that is. that is. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I can. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. I. I can't. I. I can't. th. th. th. to. to. to. to. to. to. I. I. I can't. I can turn it on at international level. And also what I'd normally do at a normal party, it would be a free-fraul. So I'd have all my brothers there, my mom and dad, and then you got invited you guys and

all that. And then if you invite enough people that are into the football, you should have the football and I think what I'm going to do is going hardto have to. I do you do this. 2014 I didn't do this at the World Cup and I regretted it because I missed the first two goals of Brazil 7 Germany, no Germany 7 Brazil 1 because I was doing mock the week and then ever since I've refused to put work in during the euros. 100% mate that goes in first and then the bookings of other stuff because you know and also as well what I used to love to to to to to to the to the to the to the book and then the bookings of other stuff. Yeah, you know and also as well what I used to love is when it's a really far away and it's all the games are like 11 a.m that is perfect for a comedian. Because there's loads of like eight o'clock games. Yeah. And what's annoying though if you do watch the football and it's the summer you have people cheering in the garden. Yes. You cannot watch it on delay. So that's what I'm getting a little bit stressed at the moment because I had a six-month-old in the World Cup and then I ended up having looking after the kids when the games were. I told you that when I put I gave a milk in her ear instead of a mouth. That was a low point. But if that had led to a goal, you'd have had a lot, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a to a to a, a to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to a, I had a, I had a, I had a, I had a, I had a, I had a, I had a, I had a, I had a six, I had a six, I had a six, I, I had a six, I, I, I, I had a six, a six, a six, a to, a to, a to, a to, a to, a the, a the, a the, a thi, a thee, a thee, a thee, a toa.a.a, a toa, a toa, a toa, a toa, a toa, a toa, a tho, a the, a corner. You know you're the lucky job. She gets to 17 and I'm just still pouring milk in her ear

watching the football. It's a long story, but we've won the World Cup ever since. I always find it, you'll get a comedian, right? And they'll go, I can't believe it. I've got a gig the night of the England semifinal. And I'll think that that's the the the night that's the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night the night the night the night the night the night the night the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night. I've the night. I've got. I've got. I've got. I've got. I've got. I've the night the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. the night of the night. the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night of the night. I. the, that is your own fault. Yes, you know when that semi-final was. You should have tracked that from six months ago. This was all, the information was all there for you to see. But yeah, they've not sprung it on you.

Yeah. They've not moved it. This is always there. I heard about a top-level comedian once, Rob, who had a tour show, and he put the match on an iPad behind, you know, the speaker at the front of the stage. How, no way. Could you imagine? Did you make a thing of it? No, so the audience didn't know?

Yeah, he must be. He's too good at comedy to do that. How can you do that? How can you enjoy that? I remember once though because I used to I've recorded a game right when it was the euros right yeah I've recorded a game that I wanted to watch it don't know if it's England game and I've done What the week because not the week is normally filmed during June? Yeah, and obviously? Yeah, I couldn't turn it down? You've had to? I've? I've? to turilled it. But I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the game. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theyooooooeuroeuro. I was was was. I was. I was recorded. I was recorded. I was recorded. I was recorded. I was recorded. I'm going to watch it when I go home and everyone respected that, no one told me anything and I got in the car and I said to the driver, I've not seen the football, I've recorded it, let me, you know, just, let's not, don't, he went, fine I went, I'm gonna put, you know, I'm got for an entire show, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now literally, as I drove past, went, I can't believe it, one nil, he gave away that penalty,

he ate you for a minute, did it. We always do that, and I was like, brilliant. Not only do I know the result, I know exactly how am I. stuff in but and that's the thing normally it was just work you had to worry about but then kids arrive and I think the best thing is always to stay in your own house and then you're in control of the telly you can't what I'd say is for you though it's great for the newborn we've said this before take your phone or your iPad with you wherever you go and then go I'm just gonna take the baby for a walk and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you the the the to to the the the to the the to the to the the the the to to to the to the the the to the the the the the to the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th to tel. tel. tel tel. tel. tel. tel. tel. tel. tel. th the the the the the the the the the th the non-England games. Yes, but yeah but when you want to

have a drink and get into it you can't concentrate on a child properly. No, I went during the 2018 World Cup my daughter fell over so she would have been eight months just before England Columbia the second round game about 6 p.m. She fell over and hit her head. Oh no, A and E? She was fine, Rob. She was fine. I've never in my life, the thought of, not now. Not at this, not at this moment. Fratchier's skull tomorrow.

Come on, mate. So what happened? Well, we did NHS 1-1, and they took us through it. The advice of NHS 1-1-1, they did they did they did they did they did they did they did th-tod, th-and-and-and-and-in, th-1, th-1, th-1, th-1, th-1, th-1, th-1, th-1, th-1, th-1, th-soed-soed-in, th-nough, th-s, tho, tho, tho, thi, th th th th th th th th th thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-nough, th-nough, th-nough, th-nough, th-nough, th-wooooovedeeeeeeeea-wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooovede-wovede. the?? the-w-1, and they took us through it. The advice of NHS 1-1-1, they did a load of things that we did. She was fine, and then it just slightly overshadowed the game, the build-up, but to be honest, I'm not good with build-up anyway. No, you're not. In a way, it was better that she hurt her head. the build-up. Do you want to try? Do you want some Instagram messages, Josh? Yes, please. Here we go. I'm writing in, this is from Matt, age 33 and a half. Hello, Josh and Rob, I'm writing in as the salty Josh stories have typically focused on him being salty when

approached by fans or at work. However, to keep in line with a theme of the podcast, I write in with the tale of salty parenting by Josh on behalf the who doesn't listen to the podcast. Oh wow, but she's told this story and it's got back to us. My sister and husband and nephew live near Josh, I've encountered the infamous dodgy, the infamous dodgy traffic like on many occasions when visiting them. On one sunny morning a few weeks ago, my sister and her often references. My nephew was about to get on one of the big slides when a child pushed in front of him. Not wanting to discipline somebody else's child, my sister and husband let it pass. However, the Q-jumming child's parent then approached. It was none other than Josh himself.

No, she wouldn't have pushed in front of him. Josh said to them, oh, did she push in front of him? And then proceeded to do absolutely nothing about it. Not true. Not true. No apology on his daughter, even for show. He just carried on as if nothing had happened. No wonder she doesn't want to put on her coat with suboptimal parenting like that. Oh my word.

He's gone in on you here. That is an accusation. And I'm going to say it is bullshit because I tell you what I tell you my role at the park Rob. Yeah it is pure loads of people push in front of us because I'm too too embarrassed to You're weak. I'm weak. I'm totally weak. At the park you're a park bitch. Yeah, I have I me and my daughter a park bitch there is no way that we if you were to do a tally of cues that we've jumped versus cues that we've been jumped in front of, I reckon we're about a mile behind. Also as well, in your defense, you will apologize for something that you haven't done.

Yes, exactly. I'm an apologist. On a more serious note, as a father of two girls, three and one, I love the podcast, it's been super helpful and keeping me relaxed and upbeat, particularly as a one-year-old arrived mid-pondemic. Hopefully if you print this story, my sister and husband will become avid listeners to. I think that's, I think they've made... I don't want liars listening to this podcast, Rob. I will take lies. Yeah, I would, I mean, we'll take any on. Yeah, fine. Oh, mildly salty Josh.

Oh, it's all kicking off Josh. Bars on planes. I've just listened to the episode where you talk about bars on planes and had to write in. So in a bit of long story, I came to the podcast. If this is about being drunk on a plane, then I plead guilty straight away. All right, I got, oh, this is a good one. That's true. You've not mean. podcast that you and Josh present and I mentioned that I'd met Josh and he'd been a bit grouchy. Oh well that's fine. She laughed and said so you had a salty Josh Whittakum encounter so I started listening and have been a loyal

listener since no kids and don't want them so listening just reminds you of why my decision is a good one. Back in 2013 after last leg had kicked off Josh flew Virgin Atlantic. I served him at the gate and he didn't even acknowledge me. Rude I thought. Now Josh says he's never experienced a bar on a plane, but that day he came through priority boarding for upper class, which unless he was too posthuousand of virgin have bars on their planes. Congratulations on the baby, Naomi.

The only time I've flown and had a bar on a plane was not 2013. I would have, I think we would have just paid for priority boarding. Well, the one time, when we had a bar on an Emirates flight, going to Australia for filming the last leg in Australia, and we drank the whole way to Dubai where we were changing. Not Adam, suffice to say, me, Alex and the producer Ben who is, he's not the producer anymore, he is a liability in these situations. Yeah and especially you three all come from I think, I don't know about Ben as much but you and Alex Brooke have not been brought up with the lifestyle of flying business to Australia on a plane so you just go fucking ferrel don't you????? their.. their. their. th. th. th. Yes. Yes. Yes. We. their. th. their. th. th. their. th. their, th. their, their, their, th. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they. We're, they. We're, they. We're they. I's, their, their, their, their, their, the up with the lifestyle of flying business to Australia on a plane. So you just go fucking ferrel, don't you, when you're first...

We got to Dubai and they said, and you're like, you should have told us this six hours ago. We get to Dubai, we've been drinking for six hours, and they say, just so you know, he's illegal to be drunk in Dubai in the airport, so you're going to need to sober up or at least act sober. So you had to pretend to be sober in Dubai. It was genuinely terrifying. To basically be given plied with booze all the way into a dry area where it's illegal to be drunk.

Yeah. It's like being forced to a christening. Sat in the front. Can't really be drunk in here. What? When I also, when you go on the Emirates, they give you a little like box, the little bag, didn't they, with like goodies in and all that, like moisturizers and stuff and toothpaste. When I first flew of them, those because I'd never flown like that before and everyone else was like seasoned travelers, like frequent flights. They didn't they they they they they they they they their they they they they didn't even want their bag of goodies, so I knicked them all. I was like Del Boy, I came off that plane with a holdo and I had 10 bags and I wrapped them all up and gave him out as Christmas presents. Oh yeah, I was a good.

Oh yeah, I'm a walking cliche. Oh yeah, I always enjoy them, even if they are, you know, slightly fabricated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I the the the the the the the th. I, th. I, th. I, I, Right, Josh, keep the salties coming in. I always enjoy them, even if they are, you know, slightly fabricated. Yeah, and also I've been out on the piss a lot recently, so I'm sure there's a few salties in the bank for me. Yeah, I haven't. One day again, I will be out on the piss, and I cannot wait. We've got an unsalted the story from from, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the the the thi. their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. toeea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. S. S. S. S. S. S. Saly. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. S. Josh would have come great guy. Splashing the cash around even. Yeah, he just sent this from his brand new iPhone 10. Whatever the new one is, 12, I don't know.

Right, Josh, who's on the podcast this week? Ah, now Rob, I'm going to say it. Yes. You have brought to us one of the great stiffneck bookings. Anyone who saw this listed would never have thought this is a Rob Beckett booking. Yeah, do you know what? I just linked up with an author friend of mine online and said, hey, do you want to come on and talk about being a parent and living in Denmark? Denmark? I do really lose my stiff-net credibility when I called

Denmark by accident. Genuinely, absolutely fascinating. One of the most fascinating interviews we've done, and I'd say of all the interviews we've done is the one I've quoted the most to other people in fact since we've done it. Oh really? Yeah, I'm going, you know in Denmark this? I am a bore on the subject now, I know everyone hates me about it. But Helen's brilliant, she's got loads of good books out about being happy or sad and living life and this one's about when she went to Denmark with her husband because his job changed and then they lived in Denmark for a year, it's called a year of living Danishly. And then they were trying for a baby freelance journalist and living in Denmark and it was great really interesting

and really funny and yes a very stiff-neck booking but maybe Robbock at 2.0 maybe I've got a stiff-neck Josh let's get Helen Russell on. Back to school signals a fresh start for students new classmates new teachers new lessons change is in the air, but one thing hasn't changed. The Ford government still isn't investing in public schools. Six years of cuts mean our students aren't getting the supports they need. They can't wait another year. If the Ford government won't change, it's time to change the government. Our kids are counting on us.

Join us at Building Better Schools. A message from the Elementary Teachers Federation of Ontario. What does Possible sound like for your business? It's having to spend to power your scale with no preset spending limit. Redefine possible with business platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit Amex.C.CA. slash business plan.

Helen Russell, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. We're very excited. I'm really overexcited. I've actually nearly fallen out of friends over you and your book, Helen, because I recommended so many people. I actually heard my brother today go, oh, not him and that fucking book again. It just sort of made me feel like I was growing up at home again. But yeah, a year of living Danishly is the book we're talking about.

Would it be better for me or for you to introduce what that book is and how it came about, Helen. What do you reckon? I can explain it. Yeah, so I was living and working for 12 years as a journalist in London. I was at Mary Clare magazine. I was sort of living the London life and then had th. I th. I th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was the th. I was th. I was the the th. I was the thi the the thi. I was the the the the the the the th. I was the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was teea. I was tean. I'm tean. I'm tean.ean.ean. tean. tean. tean. I've. I'm. tea. I'm te. I'm Mary Claire magazine I was sort of living the London life and then had no intention of leaving but I was stressed all the time I was tired as many people are and I'd also be we'd been trying for a baby for as long as my husband and I could remember we'd had years of fertility treatment but nothing seemed to be working we were always so tired and stressed and then one day my husband came home and told me he'd been offered his dream job working for Lego in Denmark and we knew nothing about Denmark. Horse.

It's the only job that's in Denmark, isn't it? It's that or it's Carbark. Bacon. Yeah, Bacon. I know this isn't the point, but we will get to it. But I do need to dig down in what his dream job working at Lego is. I feel like I can't quite tho the tho tho tho tho the tho tho thi thi thi thi thi thi th th th thi th thi th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi tho thi thi thi thi tho tho tho tho that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the theen theat theen the the the the only only only only only only only the the o' thean theat theat that that that that's that's that led to the dream job working at Lego is? I feel like I can't quite say the previous job because you know linked in all those people. But it was working for a major grocer. Was it Duplo the previous job? Yeah, it was connex. It was working for a grocer who had a lot of food products but were quite tight with them perhaps. And then he works in environmental stuff so he got to do that for, he just loved Lego. to to to to to to the to to the to to to the to the to to to the to the their to to to their to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their. I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. the. the. the. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I. I. I th. I th. I te. I te. te. I te. I te. I te. te. I te. te. te. today. I today. today. today with them perhaps. And then he works in environmental stuff so he got to do that for

he just loved Lego. He's loved Lego since he was little so it was just super great for him. I mean I'll take a security job at Ledgau at this stage. Just for the discount. Could I just ask one more question then we will move on. Do you ever get any damaged like like when I used to work at Waterstones, say a book's cover got ripped, that's dibs, anyone can have that. Oh, is there a, do you ever get damaged Lego? No, because it's quite hard to damage Lego. I mean, you can put it through the washing machine. Yeah, what?

Yeah, watch? Was wash? Is that thing? Well, I mean, well, well, up in pockets going through the Washington you hear a rattle and that's never good. Yeah of course anyway let's get off sorry sorry sorry to your journey from being a journalist in stressed out London stress out London and then your partner got a job in Denmark is that their job to their dream to their job? Yeah and you obviously at that point didn give it a year and see if I could change the way I lived and get happier by Denmark had just been voted the happiest country in the world in these polls and I started to vote at the

thea and I started voted the happiest nation in the world going back to the 70s. So I became really interested in this and I started writing for British newspapers as a freelancer about the Danish way of life and then looking at a different area of Danish living each month to see what Danes did differently. So then I wrote the year of living Danishly and half way through my year of living Danishly I found out that I was miraculously pregnant and and now I also have twins so I went on from from this space of so your luck ran out oh my goodness and Denmark just been voted at the least unhappy place on us in the space of... So your luck ran out? Oh my goodness. And Denmark's just been voted the least unhappy place on us with everyone now with twins? So yeah, from thinking I was going to have no children and sort of trying to come to terms

with that, in a very short space of time, I had three. And luckily, turned out Denmark's quite good for kids, but yeah, a steep, steep learning curve. So Denmark population about five million, I checked, I didn't know that. I've watched a documentary on Lego. Of course I have, I'm sure Robbers watched it as well. And they're based in like a small town that's just basically people who work at Lego, aren't they? Yeah, that's right. I live in the middle of nowhere. No, I'm not in the jazzy Copenhagen bit. It is the middle of nowhere in a place called Rural Euland. And yes, there's not that much going on. I mean, we're very excited like post-Covid, the big four are open again. And the big four are Lego house,

this place called Wow Park and the zoo. I mean, they're very little to do. Wow Park sounds amazing. I mean you're really setting your stool out if it's just a Ferris wheel, isn't it? I know the arrogance. Yeah, wow. That's not very Danish is it? Wow. It's true. And how old are your children now? Sorry, we didn't get their ages? Yes. I have a little ginger child who no one knows where the ginger hair came from, but he is seven now and my twins are just turned four. So we are busy. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. to. to. to. to. to. the th. th. th. th. th. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. th. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. th. th. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. that's. that's. that's. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Wow. Wow. Wow. th. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. the. the. the. th. th. th. th. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. Oh, blind me. That is a busy house. Oh, yeah, it's fairly recently then you wrote the book and you've had about four since. You've absolutely, you're banging out books as the rate of children at the moment. Well, there was a stage where I would, it's just writing a book every time I had a baby and then I thought, well, I don't want to another baby like, like, how am I going th going th going th going th going th.... th. th. th. the th. th. thi. the thi. thi. thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I th. I th. I the the the thi. I the. I the book, the book, I the book, I the book, I the book, I the book, I the book, I the book, I the book, I the book, I the book. the book. the book.. the book. the book. the the the book. the the the the the the the book. the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I th. I th. I th. th. the. theat. theateat. theateat. th. theateatea. th. theatea. thea. th Danish is still terrible and working as a journalist,

I was a Scandinavia correspondent for The Guardian for a while but actually it's quite hard to react to news stories. I'd be asked like can I go and cover a bomb going off in Sweden and I'd be like no I've got a shepherd's pie in the oven. It's very hard to do that once you have a king. Yeah, books work quite well for that. So, you moved over there, your Danish is now not brilliant, you say, but presumably you had no Danish when you moved over there, right? Would that be fair? No Danish, no friends, no family. I mean, it was quite a shocker.

What's that like? Well, you just sort of, I don't often sort of take big risks with bravado, but I somehow agreed to move here and then, and their their, and their, and their, and to, and to, to, their, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, their, their, to, to, to, too, too, too, too, too, too, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, thaugh, tha, tha, toe.ea, too, too, too, toe.e, tha, bravado, but I somehow agreed to move here and then my husband left to go to work at 7.30 a.m. because the working day starts at 8 here and ends earlier as well. And I was just sort of in this bleak in the middle of nowhere in January and it was very much like the killing, just forests all around. I thought what have I done. What have I done? tho. thi. th the work w I the the the their. their. their. their. their. their. to to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to work to work to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work. I. I. I. I. I, to work. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. to, to to to to to to to to to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to work, to to to work, to to to work, to work, to work, to think work was a real salvation there of just keeping busy and that helped me meet people as well and like build up friends around here. Of course. Do you genuinely believe though that a slightly more relaxed way of life helped you get pregnant

or do you think it was more or more luck or do you think it had an impact? Yeah, I definitely think it had an impact because there was I'd been doing all of the things in London I've been you know going to St Mary's Hospital and going to tooting every you know every week like three times a week I was having all these appointments whilst trying to fit it around my really high-powered job and was that IVF? Yeah yeah and then and then here it was just a different pace of life however interestingly for having the twins it's very hard to relax enough to get to to get to get to to get to to to the to the the to the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their th. th. th. I th. I th. I'm thi. I'm their their their their their. I'm their. I'm their. I's their. I's their. I I I's their. I I I I I's their. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. th. th. I I I I I. I I I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I's. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm t. t. t. t. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. th. th. th. toddler so that was IBI. So the first one wasn't IVF but the twins were IVF yeah. When you got there did you what were the main lifestyle changes? We talk about this more relaxed way of life but that's kind of quite a nebulous idea because all I know currently is that you go to work at ATM which to me sounds much much worse. Yes this is true but you finish at four and actually the

average day... Electrician. Yeah the average day in does 33 hours a week which is you know so much less than I was used to doing in London and they're quite there's this more of a mentality of you're trusted to do your job and then leave there's no presenteeism and you th and you th. and you th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi thi the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thi. I I the. I the. I that. I'm that. I'm that. I that that. I that. I'm that. I that. I'm that. I'm that that that th mentality of you're trusted to do your job and then leave. There's no present-tie-ism and you know back in many jobs in London, you know, you're pat on the back if you're still at your desk at 7pm and that's not the case here. Somebody did it in Lego and they got a lecture on time management and a leaflet about efficiency. Oh wow. They love a leaflet. Love. Lowe. Lov. Lov. Lov. Lov. Lov. Lov. Lov. Lov. Lov. Lov. L. L. Li. Li. Li. Li. Li. Li. Li. Li. Li. Li. Li. Li. the their. their. their. their. their. their. You their. You their. You're their, you're their, you're their, you're their, you're their, you their, you their, you you you you you you you you you. You their, you. You you. You you. You you. You their, you. You. You. You their. You. You. You their. You. You. You. You. You their. You. You their. You their. You their. You're their. You're their. You're th. You're th. You're th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thoooooo. th. their th. their their their the working day, you leave. Yeah, so there's much more of an emphasis

on you know you have to leave at four o'clock because everybody works, 80% of mothers' work, you have to pick your kids up from daycare and you know the men and the women are tend to be involved in the pickup in making a home cooked meal. Food is very expensive, eating out. their to eat out. their food is very expensive. to eating out. to eating out. to eating out. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. th. to. to. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, 80, 80. their their their their their their their work, 80. their, 80. their, 80. their, 80. their, 80. their, 80. their, 80. their, 80. their, 80. their, 80. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, t t te. te. te. te. te. te. their te. their their, their their, cook a family meal each night. So there's just more of an emphasis on doing your work, getting home, having a life, doing lots of hobbies as well, that's big in Denmark. Oh wow. And how was it different, obviously, when you didn't have kids, when you're different, obviously, obviously when you're different, obviously, when you're different, obviously, when, you're the different, the to their, and, I I, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I, I, and, and, I, and, and, and, I, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, the, the, and, the, the, and, and, the, and, the, and, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the........ the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the notice, but when you've got to find a place room to learn to swim or to find a nurtian stuff, how was it having a baby in that environment? Was it different to how you sell your friends and families with kids in the

UK? Yeah, yeah, for sure it is. And there's not really NCT-type stuff, so I I did have to go out there. I'm going to shock you here, Helen. It's not a friendship group. It's people that you are forced to be in a WhatsApp group with until you all decide you don't like each other and never message again. So don't be sold this friendship group though. There's a reason Danes are more happy and they haven't got NCT. That's the reason. So there's a lot of that and there's a lot the there a lot there's a lot th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. tho. tho. tho. tho. that's thi. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be. to be. to be. to be. to be to be thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. the thi. thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. to to's a lot of that and there's a lot of sitting around in cafes and yeah it's quite civilized. What I did find though is having twins and maybe you've had guests on before who had similar experience that you can't actually get to many of the child related activities because you can't get a double stroller anywhere. So I made some friends while I had to be. So I made some friends while I had the twinne. the Danish pastries th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. thi. thi. thi. the. the, the, the the the the the the. the. the. the. the. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. the. the. the. the space. I know, I think you can physically buy one, can't you? Or is it just not the space in that? Well, so I measured up, so the Danish pastries, that's another reason they're happier.

The Danish pastries are amazing. And I measured up the Danish pastries, the Danish pastries in Denmark, don't they? I don't know if they're the Danish pastries in Denmark, don't they? They're called Wienapol. There we go, now we're talking, give you more of these. Weena pole. Breyer, look, Viennese bread. And there's the Froe Snapper, the Frog Snapper, there's one called Baker's Baddie because it's got this creamy custard goo at the middle. Oh wow. Sounds like something horrific. their. thapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapap. the the dard. Sorry to bring the tone down everyone. So the double stroller, you measured it, there was no space? I measured the doorway to my favorite bakery before I bought the stroller to check it was could still fit in. And it could.

That is commitment to pastry. Yeah, I was a winner. But I found that lots of the baby activities I just couldn't maneuver it in or I couldn't carry the babies upstairs both at the same time So it's a it's a shocker. So they would have been you would have a three-year-old and then the twins Would that be right? Yeah, a very angry red-headed three-year-old annoyed at having to share way you describe it? Yeah I think so and bakeries and and coffee they're big big coffee drinkers and so actually this whole idea of this huga that has become quite famous of the last few years but that having coffee and cake together is is a normal part of the day

so that was nice and that's good for new parents. Yeah because isn't that in winter when it would the the the winter it's in in the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the toy. toy. toy. toy. toy. toy. toy. toy. today. try. today. try. the the the the the the the the the that the, in winter when it, when the, obviously it's dark so much earlier and in the winter in Denmark that you sort of just try and make the home cozy and you want to stay in and get like warm and cozy rather than going out on the piss start be doing this country. Yeah, exactly. And the weather is, it's? To be happy, isn't it? Cram it all in in the summer. But they have, they also let baby sleep outside in their strollers or in their big prams, big kind of Mary Poppin style prams called Barnaborns. And they sleep outside,

they can't escape up until minus 20 degrees. So it means parents could be inside the cafe just relaxing while the kids are outside. No. So they just leave him outside. So is that why they obviously, so they'll just leave him outside to sleep while they're in having a cup of coffee? Yeah, yeah. Wow. It takes them getting used to but it's pretty good.

Yeah, there's a bit of, ohitting myself, I mean I was sitting by the window and sort of peeking quite too late. Just getting quite jittery on my third coffee of the day because I was so tired but you know they survived very good lungs now, fresh air good for the skin so yeah they that's what they like to do. And you said that kind of it's quite th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's what th. It's what th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's th. th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. th. th. I's. th. I's. th. th. I's. I's their. I's their. I's their. I's their. It's their. It's to do. And you said that kind of it's quite expensive to eat out or to drink or can I have some numbers on that? Yeah, you can have some stats, yeah. How much is a pint? Oh, okay, so I'd say and maybe I've been out of London for too long, but I'd say a pint can be, you're probably looking at between seven and ten quid. Wow. That's the middle of nowhere. You're not even in a capital city. Yeah, not even somewhere good.

Yeah, so I think a supermarket shop is about 25% more expensive than in the UK. So all the shops are waitros. Yeah, all the shops are waitros. And you're also paying really high income tax. So it is a bit of a shocker. But then once you see the welfare system and you know the education is all free and Even private schools are subsidized So there's a lot that people are looked after

Yeah, because I get from a child care point of view is there not a lot there's a lot of support early on is that is that? Yeah, so you're guaranteed a place in you know high quality state run daycare from six months old and so most kids are in daycare before they are one and that's every day because parents go back to work full time there's not much of a part-time culture so much. Keep talking here we go. I know I'm getting on the plane. So sometimes I listen to you guys talking about guilt about sending kids in for not all of the days and my kids have their times the thirty hours. th th th th th th th th th th th th thirty th thirty to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to my to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to tha their their their their their their their their their their their their times. their their their thea. the, exactly. What if they just sat there outside for seven hours in minus 20? There's a lot of coffee to drink. It's a real rotter stuff going on with a cake here. Well, parents are very big into hobbies. And they're very big into that, you know, putting the oxygen mask on first.

So I think, yeah, they're quite, they do have quite a nice life, parents look after themselves. Do you think it's a little bit of sometimes, I think as a parent, especially in the UK, there is all this, a lot of guilt and that you constantly go, is my child okay, is my child, okay? And then what you then do is, you know, you don't give yourself enough like time for your own self-care, like, thiiiiiiiii, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thr, thr, thrown, tho, thi, their, their, their, their, and, their, and you reading a book or doing some exercise you'll go into being a parent better because you've had your own your own time I think this country so I know what sort of kids out but it's actually worse in a way because you're not you don't have time to chill yourself yeah I think that's definitely true and as you say it everyone around me is doing the same, but I'm sure if I was in the UK, I would have a massive guilt about it. Yeah, of course. And so were they in five days a week from six months? The gingerhead one was...

Because I had to write a book. Yeah, because I found that interesting. You don't give away a lot of names. So like your husband's like, the thinne or lego boy or lego man and your kids of the ginger's, the ginger, their, their, their, their, their, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, or their, or their, or their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. And, your kids of the ginger one and the twins and stuff. Yeah, because I just feel like and of course it's everyone's individual choice but I kind of want them to decide when they want to and also it's a really small community and I didn't know how my book could be received and I didn't want my husband to lose his job and now it's published in like 30 countries around the world and it would just be a bit awkward if... Yeah, I mean Lego man, it could be about 20,000 people in just your village. Everyone works at Lego. Wow Park Man, when he changes his job. Hello, Alan Davis here, inviting you to join me by listening to a new podcast,

seven pillars. Each episode, I'll be talking to a famous guest to discuss seven significant cultural influences, inspirations or experiences. Seven things that help shape them, that they loved or that they returned to again and again and hold a special place in their life. From films and music, books, food, places, and memories, the podcast are seven questions that will spark stories for the guests and give the listener an insight into the minds and passions of some of the most interesting comedians, actors, writers, philosophers and raconteurs

around. Starting with comedian Romish Ranganathen in episode one which is out now and in the coming weeks we have Hollywood actor Walton Goggins, comedy legend Joe Brandt, author and intellectual heavyweight, Jay Perini and many more. You can find the show by searching seven pillars on all podcast platforms. And what point in the year? Because obviously you've gone there and you're the husband's gone to work and it's 8 a.m. and you're in the middle of a forest basically on day one. How long did it take before you thought this is for me I'm going to stay? Well I think I thought it was quite nice. I say about 200 pages of a book.

By summer, yeah. It's sort of easy convincing is it, Helen? Yeah, I think that's fair Rob. I think it took a while. I think it th. I th. I th. I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. took. th. th. th. took, took, th. th. th. th. th. the the the th. the the th. th. the th. th. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. toda. toda. toda. toda. toda. toda. toda. today. today. the today. I think it took a while I think it took really I had by the end of my pregnancy by the end of the years it's starting to get darker I knew I wasn't there my doctor said I wasn't allowed to get my plane anymore so then I sort of thought well it's going to be more than a year because I can't go anywhere and then once I had my son here and realize the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thethink it probably took the whole year to decide okay we'll give another year but we've only ever said oh one more year one more year yeah here we are still I really so do you imagine you'd come back one day well I'd like to but I feel as though I haven't really been able to spend much time in the UK because either my twins were really the twins were really small so I was only going for overnight for work stuff and then COVID happened so I really feel very out of touch I need to sort of spend some good time in the UK

and just it's going really well over here I don't know if you're across the news but everyone's really happy it's the equivalent if you were in a pub of your mates and we were trying to convince you to come to our pubs it's empty with one bloke in the corner smoking. That is all that's happening. And it's not as a boy. And it sticks are pissed. But do you know what? We're getting injections. We are going to injecting people in some places. The one thing though, because I follow you on Instagram

that looks very stressful living in Denmark with the kids is sometimes, if I just go to the park and I try and put them in them them them them them them them them them them them in them in them in them in them in them in them in them in them in them in them in them in them in them in the their their their their their their their their their their to the the their to their to their to their their their their their their their their their their their their the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their........... I'm the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. I's theating. theating. trying. toeating. trying. toeating. toeating. toeating. toeating. toeating. toeating. I are injecting. I toe when it's winter that just getting myself dressed for a really cold day exhausts me and ties me but when I looked at your it was like I think you had all of the outfits you need for three children like toddlers and babies to wear and they were just like thermal trousers thermal tops hats an anxiety attack, just looking at how many layers a kid needs for that weather. It is quite stressful, but it's almost like you have kind of selective memory because I've almost wiped that out. That was winter. I'm not going to think about, winter's so awful. I'm not going to think about that until next winter. So now we're in springtime where they have to wear wind suits, which the wind, the wind, the wind, the wind, the wind, the wind, where the winter, where the wind, where the wind, the winter, where the winter, where the winter, where the winter, where the winter, where the winter, where the winter, where the winter, where th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the th, th, th, th, th. So, th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the the, the the, the the the the the the the the the the the th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr, thri, thri, thri, thri thri. It's thri thi thri. It's thi, thi, thi, thi, th makes me think of fighting. What's a widen suit? It's like, you know like your grandma might wear a quilted jacket, a sort of padded but quilted.

Yeah. If they wear that top and bottom, or they wear rain suits, top and bottom. What's it like at the height of summer, well actually, no, at the height of summer, it can be really hot, global warming and everything. The last summer I tried to take the kids home in just their pants and I thought it's Scandinavia people are quite liberal it's a five minute walk I thought they can just walk in their pants and the teacher told me I couldn't do that so. They have quite rule abiding and there are some line I had crossed there but it can get hot. You can't wear, you can't wear, they're a today. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. Yeah. their. their. Yeah. I'm. their. their. I'm. they're. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I's. I. I's. I's. I's. I's. I'm. I'm. t. I'm. t. t. t. t. t. t. tt. ttttt. tt. th. th. thnecky, I'd say from a point of view of this podcast.

They love a rule. Yeah, they do really love a rule. Yeah, but I think that's why they did quite well on COVID at the beginning or not having such a bad response to COVID because everybody just followed the rules and did as they were told. Yeah, especially the winter the winter Well the big four are shut Rob so what are you going to do? The big four are shut I'm not socialising. That's how they stop COVID. They're closed Wild Park that was it. And so what are other parents like with their kids compared to British? Would another put? Because in Britain if a kid's being naughty you won't tell them off? they're too British and awkward but would a Dane say tell you tell you tel you'd their. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're to. they're they're to they're to to their. they're they're to to to they're to to to to they're to to they're told. they're told. they're to stop. they're they're they're not. they're they're they're they're they're. they're. They're they're. They're they're. They're they're they're. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're. They're they're they're they're they're they're they're to c. They're to c. They're close. They're close. They're closed. C. They're closed. They're closed. C. They're closed. They're closed. They're closed. they're closed. They're closed. They're they're they're they're they're they're they your kid off if they're breaking the rules? It's so weird because Danes are quite private, so usually they won't. But I seem to have a face that invites people offering their opinions on stuff, because I do get told off quite a lot. But I know that, like the cliche is that Danes will not interfere with your parenting,

but I get a lot of advice. Oh really? I don't know. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. thi thi, because. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi, thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. Oh really? I don't know. Yeah. Yes. Because there's rules about how warm you're supposed to dress a child, you know, like the windsuit or the snow suit or your balaclav is not on enough. And I get quite a lot of feedback about that, but I don't know that that's universal. Do you think there's like a different, I know it comes about culturally or whatever, the, the, tha, tha, th personality? Like, could you imagine a lot of these things catching on in the UK, even, you know, the 33 hour week or whatever, or is it a kind of inbuilt thing in the Danish

psyche? That's really interesting. I think there's definitely a bit of that, because they have this thing called Yantez law, which is this idea that everyone is equaled, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi, thi, their, thi, thi, thirty, thirty, thirty, thi, thirty, thirty, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. thi, th. th. thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thirty, thirty, thirty, thirty, thirty, thirty, thirty, thirty, thirty, thirty, thirty, thi, thi, thi everyone is equal. So you're not supposed to show off. So people who come from the UK or the US to work in Danish companies, for example, get quite teased about their CVs because your CV is all about showing off and that's just not done here. And I think as well, interestingly, looking at schools, as I have been recently, since the Second World War, education and democracy have been quite intertwined in Denmark because it was occupied by the Germans and so there was a real emphasis on teaching kids to question authority because they didn't want to find themselves in that position again. So interestingly, Hitler has made Danes quite questioning the authority and quite independent but not thinking they're better than anyone else so it's quite a

different psyche I'd say to the UK one. Do you notice your kids are more Danish than they are English now? Yeah, it's exhausting. Yeah, my bad of class was not all right. Sorry, half by flu that I tried to do a Danish accent and I'd no idea what one was so I just think English. Sorry, sorry, sorry, Margot from the Good Life. Everyone is equal, so teachers and parents aren't treated with any reverence, you know, because they're older. And also, they don't really, they don't call them like toddler tantrums in Denmark. They call it the boundary years. So it's very much about, oh, you're just testing your boundaries and that is seen as a good thing. So I think yeah my kids definitely know that they can push and question things. I'm sure that is good

in the long run but it is quite tiring. Yeah I suppose you'd notice more I don't if you've got like friends of kids or your own with any nieces or nephews but when they get together how different they might be because of COVID and stuff like that. I think that's when it'll be, it'll really show that sort of culture clash that you just sort of are used to now. Yes. With things like that. But I think that's a bit of a PR spin, isn't it? Just testing their boundaries. They're like screaming in your face.

They're just teat in the boundary. emphasis on reading is so much later here. So kids don't learn to read properly till they're about eight. And I'm sure I was like smashing through books at that age, but there's just very much like working on the social stuff first and yeah, that's great. But I think that's very important though because even like my daughter's school, there's some kids there that can like fluently read, like read and write and write because they went to these preschools where basically they tell you by the leaving preschool and you start school you can sort, I can't even what they're called, but like they try and get you to a reading and writing level. So it's like some parents are so really obsessed with that. But I'm like, it's such a small part ofto sport that being able to read social interactions and stuff like that I think and I think that's maybe that's

in Denmark they sort of prioritise that over the the reading because most people could read them right by you know no one's urgently needing to read a right by five are they? No that's true. It's you find you're at home you're going I'm gonna smuggling some kind of English teaching here and teach them to read and write? Oh my god well lockdown when we're not to teach. Oh it's terrible at home schooling. I really thought I'd be quite good at it because I'm quite you know I wanted to quite a lot be a blue Peter presenter when I was growing up and I'm quite like cheerful and I quite like craft and I thought I'm going to nail this I'm going to absolutely smash it and I was so frustrated and because they teach everything very differently to the way we were taught in schools.

Yeah, I was not a good lockdown teacher. So what kind of things are they teaching them when you say it's kind of social learning and stuff what kind of things are you learning in a d............... their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thi. What is. What is. What is. What is. What is. What kind. What kind. What kind. What is thi. What is they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they............... I I I I. I. They. They're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're theea.ea. They're ta.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea. I're tea.ea. I'm they're they're they're they're they're they're they're is? Well they've I mean they're doing a unit on habitats right now and they've done units on space. I mean it's just weird they know about Greek mythology but they don't have to spell Greek mythology. I mean it's just all it's an odd combination. So they'll be talking to you about different Greek myths but can't read and write and right yeah. Exactly yeah. And tonight when I was putting my son to bed, he said, you better let me go to sleep or I'll have your guts for garters. I was like, all right, thanks. And then he's, and I'll, and I'll have your nose for a hose. And then he just started rhyming all these bits of bodies he was gonna, I mean, it's just odd, the UK now, it'd be a real kind of culture,

they'd go to school and this teacher would be like, well, I don't know what group to put them in. They're both the cleverest and the least clever child I've got ever taught at the age. Yeah, just sat in the back smoking a cigar, completely illiterate but talking about the pros and cons of different philosophers. Oh, and also because they're very open to risk. So my son goes to scouts and I got a message from the teacher, from the, well, the scout leader last week saying, on Wednesday we'll make a campfire, bring daggers. So like they all tooled up, they can use stores and axes, and they have their own knives. Bring daggers! Oh yeah, but I live in East London and the schools are very similar to that.

Little Danish road men, scout. But the things they're quite brutal with animals as well because the Copenhagen Zoo got in trouble didn't they? With the giraffe and stuff like that and what they exposed kids to have, have they, um, you can correct me on this. They're basically they're're too many drafts, so they killed with the draft and then they basically dissected it in front of school groups. What? And school kids could go and watch a giraffe and they'd cut open the trav and go and look at all, and look at all its organs.

Is that right? Yeah, that, but you know what, no Danes were surprised at all, and every day in I speak to will have a story from their youth from a school trip where they said, oh yeah, we went to go and see a lion get dissected, or like, yeah, we went round an abattoir as our school trip when we were in middle school. So it's just very normal. No wonder they could they don't teach them to teach to to teach to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their to teach to teach to teach their to write their to write their their their to write their their theen theen their their to write him him him their their their toolk.oomk. tolde tolde tolde tolde tolde tolde tolde tolde tolde tolde their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the the the the the the the the the the the the tri.oooooooooooooooeanan., get get get tri., get get tri.ooooooeneteenenen get get tri. Imagine what did you do at school stage so my teacher shank up a lion? And so have your kids might be too young for that, but have they been to anything like that? Like the seven-year-old have seen any of that kind of stuff? He hasn't yet, but they've, because we're in the countryside, I mean, there's a lot of dead stuff hanging about. And he's sort of, yeah, I got his head around that.

And I guess it's better that he learns that way than, you know, learning it first when a close relative dies or someone you love dies. Yeah. So teaching about death. I don't dissect them as well, do they? Bad news. Nance gone, but science is looking lively next week. It's biology calls for sorting. This is a very personal just my own interest. How would it be for me out there as a vegetarian? Well I would like to tell you that eight years ago it

would have been terrible and you would have starved and only eating Danish pastries however recently it's got a lot better I think Copenhagen's fine and you there's everything and oh whose is another big city when there's everything but where I am there was no provision for vegetarians when I first came here you'd get sort of you'd ask for the salad or a vegetarian salad and there'd be sort of chicken on sprinkled on top. There's vegetarian options. So yeah, it's fine now. There's kimchi in the supermarket.

Oh yeah. You're sorted, Josh. I saw you need a bit of kinshi. I love a bit of kimchee. It's alive. It's alive. It's what. It is alive. It's alive. I don't understand the science. You're 3Ks, your Kafir, your Kumbucha and your Kimchi. We haven't got kombucha yet here yet. This is the most guardian this podcast has ever gone. Sorry.

No, do you know what, Helen? The biggest surprise is that Rob booked you. This is a booking that I would have made. This is an absolutely perfect Josh booking. Like when Ron suggested you, I was like, what has my phone gone wrong? And I've texted myself. I don't understand how this has happened. Well, you know, I always started off this podcast because I wanted to know if you could get kombucha in Danish supermarkets. So now I know, I know. You know, so this is it?

No. But can you imagine that the drink? It's like fermented tea, is that right, Josh? Yes, yes, yes it is. Yes, he knows. Go ahead. Well, my mother-in-law, but let's not get bogged down by that. Everyone's got a past. Childcare, child care. With the kids and stuff like that. How, what's the birthday party score? Because we were speaking about this. Isn't it led by the teachers at the school

birthday parties for kids? Because in the UK it's an absolute political nightmare. It's like a cobra meeting with your partner trying to organize it, who to invite and stuff like that. How does it work in Denmark? It is brilliant. So tomorrow my twins have got a birthday party but all it means is that I don't have to make them a pat lunch which making three pat lunches a day is a real ballaic. So they are going to go to their daycare and then them to their home and they will have a party for an hour of chaos and cake and then they will come back to school and I will pick them up and then that will be done. Oh my God, that is the dream. Yeah and I haven't quite been able to do it yet because it's been locked down for their birthdays and various things but yeah it's their kids birthday. their birthday. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their is is is is is is is is is is is is is their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the teachers, so you're getting that supervision as well. And then you just come to your house and have a party and then, darling in an hour. And then the teachers take them back and you can tidy up.

Yeah, lovely. Oh my God, that is the dream. Yeah. And all the parties the same? They're not really sort of entertainers and all that. with people coming over and visiting you then, with keeping in touch with friends and stuff, like, have you kept in toucest with them? Do they come and visit you? Because I've got friends that have like moved to Cambridge and I visited them once in three years. So you're telling me you're a terrible friend? That's how that's how that. Yeah, I'm telling you that. I'd say pre COVID. We did quite busy. But yeah, it's very interesting. You do see people who I thought were some of our best friends have just not visited at all and people who I hadn't thought it was a particularly close bond have been over loads

and we've become a lot closer during that time. So yeah, it definitely highlights things I think. When they turned up, the people without the close bond were like, what are you doing here? Why have you turned up? I hardly know. Free holiday, isn't it? Look, I know the wow centres around the corner. I've got to pop down the whale centre, I had a bit of a busy one last weekend. Finger's fingers crossed them all right. And so there's no plans to move back at the moment. You're happy where you are with the kids and stuff like that. I, I don't know. Yeah, it's it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a the the the the the the the the their their their their fingers, it's their fingers, it's a their fingers, it's a their fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers fingers fingers fingers fingers fingers fingers, fingers fingers fingers, fingers, fingers fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, it's a their, it's a their, it's a their, it's a their, fingers, it's a their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their fingers, their fingers, their fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers, fingers to move back at the moment. You're happy where you are with the kids and stuff like that. I don't know. It's a really good place to raise kids and it's very hot.

There is no reason to leave other than that I'm not Danish. My Danish is not brilliant. I'm not sure this will ever feel completely like home. Yeah, but it'll be for university, is that correct? Yeah, they get, so you get to study for free till you're 18 and then after the age of 18 you get paid to study with student grants. No way. So yeah, they still get all that and, oh really? Yeah, it's everything is a pretty good deal compared to other places. Yeah, that sounds like a sort of a panicked daily mail hell headline of like mad lefties we've planned to pay kids to go to uni,

paid for piss up by the taxpayer. But I suppose if you're a student it must be I was paying 160 a pint when I was a student and those students are looking at seven to ten pounds of mine. Yeah, Jesus. Well, I think, interestingly, you can buy beer and stuff from the age of 16, and then it's spirits is from 18. But I did a piece for the Guardian, sorry, about Gen Z. And I followed this girl when she was turned 16 for her birthday party. And she had to do as many shots as her age, she had to do 16 shots and then she her mom gave her a puke bag to do the pukin too and apparently this was tradition when you turned 16 in

Denmark and then I caught up with her again as she turned 21 this year and she said yeah we don't we don't do that so much now so I think it has changed a little bit a little bit of an old school tradition on the 16th in that. Yeah, it's still quite, quite boozy. It's pretty boozy. And actually for your 25th birthday, if you're not married and none of them are married by 25th, they get tied to a lamppost and someone throws cinnamon at you. Just put it off. All right Helen, you've won your bet. We'll believe anything, okay? So is that boys and girls at tall men and women at 25?

Yeah, it used to be, I think, traditionally, it was because if sailors went to see to find spices, this is what I've been told by the Viking people. Then, and if they weren't married, you'd throw the spices the spices tha tha tha the the tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho thoes thoes the the the the the. the the. the. theateateate. the. We' th. th. the. We' the. We' the. We' the. We' the. We' the. We' the. We' the. the. the. the. the. the. the. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. to. to. the. to be to. to to to toe. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. Wea. We're toea. We're thea. We're the spices, this is what I've been told by the Viking people, then and if they weren't married you'd throw the spices back at them and then they just included it to women, very egalitarian and chuckle, but this means the streets smell lovely the next day. It's great. Yeah just people tired to Lampos getting pelted with cinnamon. Would you be up for that Josh is that something you'd like? Is it. Is it. Is it. Is th ground. It's ground. It's ground. Okay. Okay. That's um yeah it does smell nice doesn't it cinnamon if I had to choose something from the spice drawer to be thrown to me on my 25th birthday it'd be on the top three. One thing I'm kind of like interested in is that obviously they come top of these studies of happiness and stuff like th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that. that. that. that. that that that that's that's that's that's thi. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's. that's. that's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. that's. that's. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It. It. It. It. It. It. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's th. It's th. It's th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. th. the. the. that's that's the. that's the. But obviously that's a statistical thing or it's people answering a survey or something. Would you say on your day-to-day life you can feel that about people?

Do you know what I mean? You can feel a different atmosphere. Yeah, I think Danes feel very lucky to be born in Denmark because they're all very well educated because all this education is free and they travel a lot their, their, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, their, their, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their thi, thi, thi, thiiii, thiiiiiii, thro, thrownee, throwne, thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, their their their their this education is free and they travel a lot back when we could travel. So they do see the rest of the world and see what a good deal they have on the whole. But also Denmark is not necessarily that they're the happiest, but they're the least unhappy. So many of the reasons for unhappiness have been taken away, like job in security or health insecurity. Because this welfare state looks after the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi, their, thi, thi, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not, is not. their, is not. their, is not. their, is not. their, their, their, is not. And, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, is not. And, after people, there are fewer reasons to fall through the net and not be looked after. So they have a really nice baseline to work from. So I think, yeah, most people are, they're not sort of wandering around singing zippity dudar, but they are pretty content with their life, I'd say. And there's not people that have been really sort of left on their own in society to sort of, you know, sort of to suffer, sort of, sort of, to suffer, sort of, sort of, to suffer, sort of, to suffer, sort of, sort of, sort of, to sort of, to sort of, to sort of suffer as much as our own other country. So I imagine the mean average of happy is a lot higher.

There's not people in terrible situations bringing down the average. Yeah, I think so. And it's not perfect by any means. There's still like many of the challenges that other countries face. And I just wrote a new chapter for the end of the Living Danishly updating since I moved here. And actually, you know, they've they've they've they've they've they've they've got they've they've they've got they've got they've got they've got they've got they've got they've got they've got they've got they've got they've got they've got they've got they've got their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thee the the the thei. the thei. the theii. the the the the thei. the the thi. many countries have. There's not this egalitarian idea and that everyone is equal doesn't always apply when it comes to people from different countries. So as an immigrant, me coming here, as a blonde-haired, middle-class white woman, I had a different experience

that I have learned than people coming from like Syria or from Turkey. Yeah, it's not perfect by any means, but the theory is that everyone pays their taxes so that everyone is looked after. That's it, that's the goal. And you've written another, a few other books as well, Helen, if you wanted to mention them, a lot of it is about being happy and and how to be sad is your most recent book? Is that correct? Yeah, so I was basically, back when we could tra tra travel tra travel tra travel tra travel tra travel tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. toda, toda, toda, toda, today th. toda, toda, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. ttttttod tod today, today, today, to. to. to to to to toe. toe. to. to. to. to. to. toe. to. to. to. the. the. the. th. tod the world talking about my books and speaking to people and being on panels and talking about happiness. You did a TED Talk, that's very exciting, Helen, a TED Talk. Did a TED Talk? Thanks very much. Thanks very much.

Yes, what happ. What happens? But I would speak to realize that many of us have a very narrow definition of happiness that means never being sad. And that is not possible. And actually, if we try and suppress our so-called negative thoughts, it actually exacerbates them, it makes it worse.

And there are some good things about being sad. It can make us kind and more clear-eyed. And it's really, have to live because sadness happens to all of us and especially teaching kids to be okay with sadness felt really important. So yeah, that's what I've been working on and I think personally I've had my little sister died when I was little, so I have been aware of sadness for a long time but trying to research into happiness and having kids myself really brought it all into relief for me, how important it is to deal with these emotions even with kids even when we think kids can't understand these things. We do have to talk to kids about sad stuff too. Yeah of course I think having kids is sort of a lot of

stuff in your past that you sort of have dealt of and haven't dealt with, sort of rears its head because you have to go through certain life events that you've sort of hidden away when you're running around and your careers the most important thing in your life all of a sudden you are having to think about first days of school or when something bad happened or someone at school to this and that and it takes you back there and it's I think it's sometimes creeps up when you want to have kids you sort of think you're pretty chill but all the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi to to thi thi to thi to to thi thi thi thi to to the to thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to the their to to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. thi. thi. thri. throwneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeatr--au-a' like losing a layer of skin isn't it having kids. I mean suddenly I mean just the teariness gets like cranked up and not. Yeah and just everything you I felt like I felt everything a lot more once I'd had kids. Yeah you're more vulnerable. Because before it's just you're out there on your own

you got no real responsibilities before you know it you've got you know it's like it's not going outside about your wind coat on I imagine in a Jutland. I wouldn't know Rob. The Balaclavas just to the left you know. And so if you came back to the UK do you think you'd live a different life in the UK to the one you were living before you left? Yes I think so because my kids would be used to such a different way of life. I mean they'd be tooled up up up up up.... their their their their their their to be more to be more their to be more their their to be more to be more their to be more their to be more to be more to be to be to be to be their their to be to be to be to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their toe. too. too. too. tooos. tooes. to to to to the my kids would be used to such a different way of life. I mean, they'd be tooled up with their daggers for one thing, but you know, it would be more outdoorsy and I think I would be mindful of, you know, actually, and from my kind of professional work and a lot of the research I've done into emotions and mood, that actually, I'm aware now that we are not more productive when we work all of the hours.that we are sent. The Malcolm Gladwell study, the 10,000 hours thing, a lesser reported part of that study showed that the more successful people actually are the ones who rested more. And so I think the Danes are really good on that.

They work hard and then they play hard and they sleep. I'd do that a bit more. I think so. That's my new approach. That's my that's, that's my new approach. Josh is still rewriting chapters of his book at 3 a.m. after a night feed. Oh. Which I'd argue is not the it's not the art of living day initially. It is hard though like I'm not you know I'm not some higher level being these days. I am sitting I'm speaking to you right now from a cupboard because it is because in Scandinavian nobody has carpets or curtains so everything's very echoy......... I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I. I. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm the the the th. I'm th. I'm. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm the th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm very echoy I'm in a cupboard but this is where the Swedish the Swedes have a phrase your smultron style your symbolic strawberry patch and it's a place everyone has in their house where they can escape to you when it's

all too much and so once people have kids they have like either a cupboard that they hide in in the car and so I'm in this cupboard which has become mine and there's been times you know when the kids are little and they're all screaming and there's so many of them and they're so loud you know in this cupboard I have I can see right now a gin miniature and a packet of Nicorette chewing gum that a friend sent me when she said you don't sound like you're coping I'm gonna send this to you I'll never smoke the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the they. I I I'm they. I'm tooooooooooo. I I I'm tte. I'm te. I'm they. they. I'm they. I'm they. I'm the the the to you. I'll never smoke. She just said it might just take the edge off. So from the happiest place of the world just sat in a cupboard with gin and Nicorette even though you don't smoke. Yeah, but it's nice, you know, it's nice to know it's there if I need it. I was going to say that I think just by the Scandinavans and the Swedish even got a word for it in England. I have, it's called the corner of the spare bedroom behind the washing, is where I lie when it's near bedtime to get away from one,

but I haven't got a one. So what's the name of that place that you hide? It's called a small tron stela. It's a symbolic strawberries patch, but yeah. A symbolic strawberry patch. Okay, I, because then they'll know. I don't know, where do I go and hide? Obviously, I'll take a lot longer on a piss than I actually need. Does that count? But it would be very bleak to say the toilet. That's the worst place to hide in the world.

Yeah, the best advice someone that. Take your time. But I wish, what I wish I'd done is, I wish in the first years of my relationship before we'd had children, I'd taken longer in the toilet so that the comparison in times wasn't as stark as it is. Yes, you should have, yeah, that's a good tip, build up the length in the toilet just so it's not a shock when it comes around. That's a long game, isn't it? It's a long game, isn't it? To anyone without children listening, that's my happiness tip. So I'd say listen to Helen rather than listening to me. And so, well, we say I made book changes at 3 a.m. after night feed, which is true, but you are writing books which have all the kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which the kind, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, the the the kind, the kind, the kind, the kind, the kind, the kind, the kind, the kind, the kind, the kind, the kind, the the the to, to, to, to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to,s that could be said to be all encompassing, that would be one of the kind of jobs that would be.

Do you find you're able to at 4 p.m. close the laptop and not work for the rest of the day and do stuff like that? It's really hard, but I haven't had a choice. So I think it's very good for things like, you know, to have writer's block because I know that by 4pm my kids will be out on the street so I really have to go and pick them up. So yeah, I'll sometimes wake up in the middle of the night with a thought, oh I wish I'd done this or I should put this in something, but it's just not an option. So I have had to just work within that have a lazy and not got enough on. My writer's book really cleared out when I was due to be in the pub at 8 o'clock and I needed to get another hundred words or like 200, 500 words done. Yeah. I think that's the thing with

kids though, isn't it? You work so much more effectively when you've got that with like stand-up where I was like, oh I've got to actually properly write this stuff for this gig because I've only got this many gigs until I'm doing the tour. And it just makes you focus and that's kind of like the Danish thing of just eight or four, you will focus. Are you going on Facebook? Are you doing all that kind of extra stuff less Danish workplaces, there is far less of a culture of just spending time on Facebook and just wasting time that way. I try to do that, but as with, if you're freelance and you're trying to, if you make anything

and you have to then try and get it out into the world, I have to do social media for that. And I fall down rabbit holes as much as anyone. Yeah, that's hard. That's tricky. So obviously because you're freelancing and working at home, do you notice that your husband who goes to a Danish workplace, has he become slightly different to you in different approaches to work? Because he's sort of surrounded by it where you are working on your own most of the time? Oh, I think I'm quite disciplined because I've had to be and he when it was proper lockdown he had to be and he, when it was proper lockdown, he had to be at home. I think he found it really hard. Like, what are you doing? Should you have a cup of tea?

No, go and do some work. But I think the only real thing, and I'm not sure this quite answers your question, is that he now speaks with a sort of a pan-continental accent. Oh, oh really? Because to try try try try try try try try try to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to some to some to some to some to some to some to some to some to some to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the thea thea thea thea thea thea thea thea thea., he speaks very clearly, whereas I can still waffle very fast in a very obviously British accent. So he's done the reverse Schmichel. But a lot of football managers when they do go and manage abroad, they get like the Mickey taken out of them when they're getting interviewed in this country,

because they're sort of, and we play the game and we win in the first half and then losing the second this sort of is weird they sort of doing an impression of a Danish person speaking the second language which is English which is so but is it sort of a bit more of a deliberate more more European accent he's got now I think that's right yeah it's deliberate that's the word yeah deliberate yeah. Okay it sounds like one of my reviews. At least you were deliberate. Yeah, exactly.

I meant it. I meant it. No one's ever described as slow, Rob. Too fast. Too fast. Too fast. I was in the car by 9.30. When I first started doing comedy, I did a gig at a competition.

I did it so, I used to do it you remember Josh I was used to be so fast yeah to the point it was actually a style more so than just a speech pattern and my dad after the gig come over to and are you on gear because he thought I done coke because I was speaking so far I was nervous oh hell it's been genuinely I'd say one of the most fascinating conversations we've had and I include Joe Swash in that. Thanks, Helen. It's been, it's amazing. We have got one last question we like to ask everyone, which is involved.

Is it Lego Man you refer to him as your partner? Lego Man. It was the one thing that Lego Man does, parenting-wise that really frustrates you, but you've not brought it up because it might cause an argument. This is your opportunity to get it off your chest now in case Legge Man has a listen. Yeah, I think I have brought up many of the things so I'm trying to think of a fresh. I think so he has a life mantra that he picked up working in a pub in Sheffield growing up. Which he now brings into our home more often than I would relish and he's not very good at resting because his boss in the Sheffield pub used to say if you've got time to lean, you've got

time to clean. Okay. And so he basically, if anyone's sort of trying to sit down, if the kids are watching tele and I sit down with them clean, and he wants us doing things and yeah, that's quite terraced. It's a bit annoying as well, especially like that. You've must have, you obviously that I heard that for like probably 10, 15 years. Yeah, long time. And also, you're not going to get a three-year-old to clean.

Do you know what? I'm going to take that on a great rhyming mantra and I'm gonna stick with it. There must be a better manchery can pick up at Lego surely fucking hell he's still riding out the the pub landlord's one. I know we'll go with everything is awesome but yeah. Yeah everything's awesome. Perfect Ellen Thank you so much. Where can you get the books? Is that they paperback now that the latest... Still hard back had to be sad, but the others are all out on paperback. I'm at Ms Helen Russell on the socials and books are wherever you get your books.

Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thanks so much, Alan. I speak to you. Take care. there, the Guardian journalist and author Josh, a stiff net booking by a stiff neck in loose neck clothing. And next week, Rob, I've booked Vickie Patterson. It's a cultural exchange. Queen of the Jungle, she was a queen of the jungle and she. the the jungle she was.

What she? Yeah, I could, yeah, it's weird. And then it was followed up by Scarlet Moffy. It was a double jeweled, th. Well, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, th, th, the, th, th, th, th, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the, the, th, th, the, the, th, the, the, the, tho, the, tho, tho, th. And, the, the, th. And, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th. And, th. And, the, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a.a. And, though, though, thi.a, the the, the,'s weird. And then it was followed up by Scarlet Moffy. It was a double Jeweldy Lass. Well, I watched the Scarlet Moffat one because that was the Joel one, wasn't it? Oh yes. Danny Baker had an argument with the guy from Holmes under the hammer. That was my year up. That was a year of it. Did you know Vicki? that joke and you've researched an appropriate person. I've got writers in. I love that and I'm going to buy Helen's books now. Yes, they're really good and she's a lovely lady and I love Copenhagen. I always go there enough to have

taken the kids. So tell me all about it. Well there's the Tifley World in the middle of it but it's just very chilled. I just like the atmosphere. It is actually what she was saying. It's just a bit more relaxed. And it's not that everyone's happier. It's just that there's a lot less to worry about. So people are naturally a lot more. It's not like, oh, where are we gonna get the money for uni? And there are private schools, but the education system is so good. There's not people than Copenhagen. But little tip, do not go to Copenhagen on the second of January

because it is, in the words of a person in the hotel, it shuts, everyone leaves. And he wasn't wrong, it was all shut. Oh, Rob, what a birthday? I know, second of January, the worst birthday ever. We took a six month fold to Copenhagen, and then we were like just because it's just so chilled is pushing around they end up in this bar we had a couple of drinks and then like everyone started coming in and then after about an hour we didn't realize it was basically in a nightclub with a six month fold that was asleep.

I had to put on the windsuit and the thinneish pastries. Yes. Oh yeah justed put on the wind suit and off we go. the the th no th no th no th no the th no th no th no th no th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th th th th th thus. thoes tho' tho' tho' tho' tho' tho' tho' to to that's to to to to to to to to to to to tho' to tho' to to tho' tho' tho' tho' tho' tho' to tho' to tho' tho' to to tho' to tho' tho' tho' tho' tho' to thin' to to to to to the to to the to to the the the to to to thou to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thou the names for all the Danish pastries. Yes. All right we need to wrap this up. Right, speak to him on Tuesday. Tuesday. See that. Bye.