Parenting Hell with Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe - S03 EP42 - Louis Theroux

Episode Date: December 3, 2021

S03 EP42 - Louis Theroux Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant documentary filmmaker, journalist, broadcaster, author, and podcast titan - Louis Theroux. Louis' fantastic new book 'Theroux The Keyhole: Diaries of a grounded documentary maker' is available now. Thanks to everyone who bought tickets for the live show in January - we sold in less than 15 minutes! If you want to be first in line for any potential future live dates, merchandise, and any additional show info then sign up to the mailing list here;parentinghellpodcast.mailchimpsites.com Thanks - Rob and Josh xxxIf you want to get in touch with the show here's how:EMAIL: [e-mail]: @parenting_hellINSTAGRAM: @parentinghellA 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and member terms apply hello I'm Rob Beckett I'm I'm Josh Willickham welcome to parents in hell the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves and hopefully you feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern-day parenting each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with your tips, advice and of, of course, tales of the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their trials theirs. theirs. I trials theirs. I trials trials trials tri-a. I they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you the listener with your tips, advice, and of course, Tales of Parenting Woe. Because let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing.

Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hill with... Ethan. Can you say Josh Wibbecom? Josh Wibbeckham and Rob Beckett? Also, mommy has a baby in her tummy, what's the baby going to be called? Rob Beckett. There we go, that's big news isn't there? The baby's going to be called Rob Beckett? Is that true? Hi, Rob and Josh. Loving the podcast. Thanks for getting us through last year. I've attached a clip of our son Ethan reading out your names as part of the intro.

It's the usual Rob Beckett and Josh something unpronounceable. I'm also sending it because our second child is due in two days and Ethan has decided to name him stroke her Rob Beckett. Sorry Josh you didn't make the cut. Keep up the good work David Laura Ethan and the bump Rob Beckett. Okay so they are they are first named him they're not. He lied. Well I'm not that's just so he lied. Well I'm a fan of that actually. Quite disappointed in Ethan's dad. But that's a bit fun, isn't it? That's weird that a child knows the minor, our names now.

Because it is weird, isn't it? Yeah. It's, you know, they've appeared on a, you know, I was going to say in a boardwinning podcast. We've not their podcast. You know, I was going that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's going. That's going that's going that's going that's going that's going that's going that's going that's going. That's going. That's going. That's going. That's going that's going that's going. that's going. that's going. that's going. That's going. That's going. That's going. That's going. That's going. That's going. That's going. That's going. That's that's that's that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's going. It's going. It's going. It's going. It's going. It's going. It's going. It's going. It's going. It's going. It's going. It's going that's going to. It's going to. It's going to. It's going to. It's going the. It's going that's going that's going that's going that's going that's going that's going that's going that's going that's no. We've been nominated. A podcast, and there's not many of them. How are you, Josh, still getting up at 430 a.m? No, sorted, he woke up at 9 this morning. I'm going to suggest something. Is he still getting up at 4.30, but you don't really want to talk about it? Yeah. Okay, that's fine. We're going to talk about other things. I'm going to sort it wrong. I know you're going to sort it.

But at the moment it's still 430 a.m. Let me talk to you about things that are going wrong in my life to make you feel a bit better. Have you seen the film falling down? Yes I have. Yeah, you know how he feels like he's going to sort out society. I mean that's how my mental state is at the moment. Okay, so like your Michael Douglas in falling down. Yeah, that's your mental state. Okay, that's slightly worried. I do feel like that I should call someone about that.

Yeah. Okay, well, you can call me 4.15 if you want. I'll be around for a chat. Yeah, I'll send the police to get up for the day. But no, this is what my daughter's getting a little bit of iPad time or Kindle Fire time or the weekends before bed in the daytime if they want it because they don't have it in a week. Anyway, I found out that my youngest, my eldest is scared of spiders, my youngest has been finding spiders on her iPad and showing it to a sister to make a scared before bed. Oh my word.

Sibling Wars kicking off early doors? Yeah, she's sharp but evil isn't she that three-year-old. Yeah, I think they both are to a point, but you know you need a bit of that in life. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it, Rob? So this happens, I don't know if your daughter does this, my three year old, four year old and nearly, jumps out on me to scare me, like hide and then when I go around the corner right, if you're going to get in the car, she'll hide behind the car and jump out, and obviously she isn't scary because she's four and sometimes I don't even see her jump Yes. You can't really tell someone up. And then sometimes I go, oh, like to pretend.

And she goes, you're just pretending and tells me off. And I think the blame really lies at the feet of the four-year-old. She's not up to the job. Yeah, if she wants to scare you, she'm not suggesting that. I mean, that's... Don't suggest that to her. Look, Uncle Josh has been on the phone. He's been up early, he's got some crazy ideas. Yeah, this is a little scare me. If you want to scare me, play dad.

Yeah, pretend to choke on your food? Stuff like that, yeah. Yeah. Do I tell the nursery school teacher pulled me up on me talking about Remembrance Sunday? What? So you know I said she keeps talking about death because they got to talk about Remembrance Sunday. Oh yeah, yeah, she went, oh yeah, sorry about the remembrance Sunday thing. Oh yeah, yeah, so sorry. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Oh, th, to. to. to on the podcast that your daughter keeps talking about and she's a bit obsessed by I was like oh yeah I was so pathetic you know on here I'm

like oh yeah it's bang out of water what they're doing that I was like oh yeah that's okay don't worry it's just part of the rabbit was involved in it which sounded more horrific but I don't know what video that was what the rabbit the rabbit went over the top on 19 like a I think so I don't know I had mixed amatos any way had nothing to live for of course yeah oh yeah they've oh my god no there's oh yeah it's a video of a, it's a CBB Schult of basically rabbits jumping around in a field and then oh no that's, oh this is awful! There's a rabbit hiding under a helmet while there's bombs going off. Oh my god. It's horrific that that's worse. I'd rather she watch saving private Ryan. Remember his listing Rob.

Oh sorry yeah actually it's really informative it's great that they learn. You maggot, you little maggot. Popies is a children's remembrance animation, so he's a great war experience by animal inhabitants of a World War I battlefield. I don't think you need to shell-shock rabbit. No. She's only four. Just be silent for two minutes. Why are we doing this? You'll find out at one point. Has your child ever been silent for two minutes? Oh God, there's a bird that's really getting shot by... No, my child's never been silent for two minutes. I once, when I was doing boxing pads, there's a snail that's scared, they're all hiding under an helmet. There's, um, I remember I was doing boxing pads at a gym once, and I was doing it, and I was doing it, and I was doing it, and I was doing it, and I was doing it, and I was doing it, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, and I was doing, th-a, th-a, th-a, th-a, th-a, th-a, th-a, th-a, th-a, th-a, th-a, th-a, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th-a, th-a, was like doing weight, no one was like, pow, pow, pow, pow, and everyone started

sort of looking at me and I was just like, am I fucking amazing at this? Have I stopped, have I stunned the Jew into silence with my skills in boxing? No, it wasn't. It was Remembrance Sunday, two minutes silence. Oh my God, Rob. But my head went, God, I must be good at this, I've stopped the one in their tracks. Then all the poppies come out and then the rabbit's all right, but there is a big bit of the big in the middle that's quite bleak.

Do you want to say anything else? their to the nursery teacher? her acting ability. Right now today's guest is Louis Threw. Yes it's Louis Threw. I loved this. He Louis Threwed us at points didn't he? Yeah, he did try and Louis threw us a little bit. But then I think I laughed at an inappropriate point because he talked about having like beef with other people in like the documentary making world. It really made me laugh because how can you have beef with a documentary maker? You know it's awkward what you're gonna do when you see each other just give each other a wry look roll your eyes and walk off. I mean it's not like it's not like two pack is it and big he?

I love Louvre I think he's amazing and I love chatting to him he's great in me. Yeah it was a wonderful experience his book. He's a book. Of course he's got a book. Of course he's got he's. You know the score. You know the score now, people. You want a big dog. You have to mention their book. Let's be honest. If someone comes on here before Christmas, they haven't got a book. What's going on? Also, our books are still available.

They're still available. They're still available. Our own that order. In that order. Buy all three, God. I'm still tired, guys. And Paris Furies, and Michael Bacchartars, and Jimmy Cars. Who else? The else? Is he certi?

Fanny Bolle. the Bible. Yeah. And the Bible. . Do you think in the last two months we've sold more than the Bible, Rob? Are you suggesting that me and you combined are bigger than Jesus? This is Louis Thoreau. Enjoy yourselves. Hello Louis Thoreau, how are you? Good, how are you doing? Very good, very good. Excited to have you on. I'm ecstatic, Louis. Yeah, mainly because, well we're massive fans, but also we need to, you know, say thank you for th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to, th. th. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to thi and thi and to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. to. to. to. to. the. th. th. th. th but also we need to you know say thank you

for not starting up your podcast again so that we can operate around the top three level of the podcast charts because we all know when Louis Faroo comes out you start to dominate it so thanks for just letting a pleasure nice to hear that I haven't been it's Peter Crouch he was the other one that was always bobbing around on the top it's quite an annoying thing when you see you you you you you you you you you you you you you you the the the the the the the the you the the th you th you th you see th you see th you see th you see th you see the th you see the the th you see th you see th you th you th th. th. th. th. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. to thi. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi. to to thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi was the other one that was always bobbing around on the top. It's quite an annoying thing, is it? When you see the same names popping up. Yeah.

Currently the podcast charts without you are like the Moscow Olympics when the USA did take. It's like these. All medals are not quite worth having. We all know, we all know deep down. And wee are basically on performance enhancing drugs, because, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, the, tha, the, the, tha, the, tha, the, the, their, their, the, the, the, their, tho, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, the same, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their.... And, their, their. And, their, their, their, tho, their, tho, thoooooooomorrow, their their thooooomorrow, the same, the same, the same.o, the same.o, enhancing drugs because we do two a week. So it's not really a fair chart, is it, when we do two a week, you know? Well, good. Well done on doing your podcast, though,

so successfully, though. I'll be happy to join the Frey and give you a proper run for your money. So anytime in the next maybe couple of months I might settle back up, really? to everything else but I'm a fan of the podcast and the episode where you interviewed Ruby Wax I'd say it's possibly my favorite episode of a podcast I ever listened to. It's not heard that one. Oh it's incredible and it's so honest and what I think awkward to an extent at the start when she's being honest about how she felt about you.

Oh yeah well I went in I'd heard that she was. Did you know this was gonna happen? Of course, yeah, because I mean, that was sort of the premise of the conversation was the idea that I'd heard that she had a, well, how do I put it? Like she was, she felt a profound rivalry, bordering on ill will, actually, way beyond that. She basically said that on Adam Buxton's podcast, when she heard my name, it made her want to vomit because she felt that I had done, as she put it, it's stolen her career, because she was in this sort of documentary, quirky documentary maker of offbeat subjects and then doing it very, and also celebrities and doing it very successfully. And then around the same time I was, or a little later I came along and did it on BBC two, similar sorts of subjects and she felt

that that was that I was basically copying her and then when she, I don't know quite what happened, but anyway, she came to the end of the road at the BBC and felt that I may be my success such as it was played a role in that. So in her, in her, in her, in her, in her, in her, in her, in her her her. In her her her her her her her her her. In her her her her her. In her her her her her her her. In her her defense. In her defense, in her defense, in her defense, in her defense, in her defense, in her defense, in her defense, in her defense, in her defense, in her defense, in her, in her, in her defense, in her th. In her, I tho, I tho, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was. I was. I role in that. So in her defense solo you did do the pilot in an American accent didn't you that's something that we don't really talk about anymore but that was a little bit and then we you changed it didn't you for the series. Yeah I did and actually yeah the

thing is look there's room for everyone is the attitude I take you know what I mean like we call the same as we were joking about the attitude I take. You know what I mean? Like, we call the same, as we were joking about the podcast, at the same time, there's understandable little rival, when you see whipper snappers, I'd cast you two as whippersnappers. That's the bottom line is, you're younger than I am. Give me a chance to be a big dog, just for like a little while. You know what I mean? And then when younger people come along, yeah, and then you're like, oh, I felt a bit this way, this is taking, this is going way back now when, it's very, very different, you're going to think like, but he's nothing like you and you'd be right. But when, when Sasha Barron Cohen came along with Ali G, like I had about two years of building a little following on BBC with my documentaries, being a bit quirky, a bit silly, asking cheeky questions. And then suddenly everyone's saying, have you seen that Alley G?

He's amazing, it's amazing, Alley G. And it was obviously, it was a hugest phenomenon. It was way beyond anything I've ever achieved before or since. And it was quite annoying. And I couldn't really justify it. Because he's obviously a comic character, a prankster. And as I say, very different, but it's hard not to be irked by that level of success. Anyway, I think I was Allie G to Ruby Wax. I was the younger

person who she perceived as being more successful. So when we went on the podcast, I thought, let's get it out of the way. I'll ask that question near the top and we'll just deal with it. thi thi. And it. And I I that. And I that. And I that. And it that that that that that that that that thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. I thi. I thi. I thi thi thi thi thi thi. I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi you say to someone, I hear that when you hear my name, you want to throw up. You know, tell me more about that. But we kind of rode it and actually got to a place of sort of, you know, basically mutual understanding. And she seems a lovely person based on, you know, that chat that we had. Well, yeah, I think everyone gets that a little bit. in whatever profession, isn't it? If you're doing a certain job for a bit and then someone else comes along and it's sort of, it's more of an internal issue

that's sort of exposed and the person it's aims towards is a bit irrelevant almost. Yeah. No, no, that's exactly right. Because it's not, it's really about yourself. And she's got the right accent, but she was talking about how it was something that she was sort of projecting on to me. Yes. Anyway, probably it was me as well a bit.

No, but it must be annoying though if because you're really nice. You almost want the person that comes through to be a prick then it can be sort of justified. Well yeah, that's the judo isn't it, be thiiiiiiiiiiii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thirty, thirty, that's that's thirty, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the judo isn't it be nice. Sometimes you've got, what is it? you've got to be kind to be cruel. That's what the way is by being the nice guy, you can eat you can actually confuse people even more. But I genuinely, when I heard that she had a beef with me, but way back, I ever heard about it first in the 90s, what did I feel? I suppose I suppose it's kind of like when someone has an issue with you, it's a little bit almost, it's like a compliment, isn't it? 100% in the rap world, I don't know how, you know, they call it haters, not that Ruby was a hater, but in a way it's like, you know, the idea is like this, haters out there, man, and that hate

it's like, hate is like, hate it's know, you feed off the jealousy and the envy. I take a lot of my life lessons from gangster rap just to put that out there. I want more of that. I mean, I'm my career dream was for Stuart Leed to write a routine to write a routine about me. Then you'd nailed it as? I have been Stuart Lead, but I don't know what he said, but I've been told, I've been Stuettlead. Oh really? And I know that I'm not strong enough to... Oh, I love Stuart. I think he's great.

I want to be... We've got very real. mean that don't you? What would happen? Do you respect him too much or you just anyone's bile would bother you in that way? No, I do you know what if I'm getting Louis Thurude? I can't believe it's happening. This is great. I don't know if I respect him too much. I can honestly say that. That's off the list. It's like a doctor going through issues. Yeah, let's get that crossed off. I think he's an amazing stand-up.

I think, I just think, it's like I don't read reviews because I think if I read a review of a tour that I was doing, even if I didn't agree with something about a bit, every time I then did that bit of stand-up, that would come into my head. Do you know what I mean? And I think if I don't know what I've got to gain by listening to myself being Stuart Lead. How do you know that you were stuked that? Because one of my friends has seen me be Stuart Lee live. And he came back and joyfully said, oh, you'll never guess what. You're not going to believe what.

Someone doesn't like you. He texted me, Louis, the night before my wedding, to say that he was watching Stuartley, and Stuartly had done a routine about it. And I was like, I don't want that hanging over me? Do you want me to find out what it is is is is is is is is is it is, Josh. Do you want me to find out what it is, Josh, and I can read it out to you on the podcast one episode, just as that almost like as a therapy sort of thing of just exposure. No, I think that's the opposite of how therapy works.

No, not in my office. In my surgery, this is how it's done. Anyway, which is that anyone's opinion, you know, you could say, oh, I don't care th that that that that that that that that that that that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the that's the the that's the the that's that's the the that's that's. that's. that's. that's. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the opposite. th. the th. the th. th. that's. that's. that's. anyone's opinion can bother you. I once, when I did my first series of weird weekends, there was a character in it who was a neo-Nazi who lived in a compound in far northern Idaho. He was a borderline, well, I mean he was politically deranged. And it was also quite comical because he was so camped, and he was called Jerry Grudel and he was a big fan of, You Being Served? And I thought he was such an amusing guy, this sort of neo-Nazi was a fan of Are You Being Served, that when the shows went out, I thought it'd be really funny.

If I, as a bit, I'll send him all the show, all the first four episodes of Weird Weekends, and I'll get his thoughts on also, you know, because he's a fan of British comedy, you know, he liked Benny Hill as well. So I sent them and I called him up and he said, I thought you did a pretty good job of making fools of people. And I was like, oh, that stings a bit. And then he went, oh, and then he went on to say, you gloried in it, And I was like, and a call suddenly went like, I suddenly thought, what's this weird feeling? Like, I'm getting upset by the fact that a neo-Nazi didn't like my TV programs.

Like, that doesn't make any kind of sense and yet there I was feeling that. Artistic personalities are sensitive, right? Well, I don't think you've ridiculed anyone. You're more like mean? Like, you know, you're exposing what's going on, but they're the one serving up the plate. You know what I mean? I like that. That's a nice way of putting it. A GoPro buffet. Is that you like? Yeah. I'll put that on my resume. Oh, right. We should. If you're looking for a GoPro at a buffet, and who isn't? This guy. This guy. This episode is brought to you by Nispraso. Elevate your morning coffee ritual. From the first sip of coffee in the morning to the on-the-go cup. Make every morning unforgettable with Nispresso.

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toxin. Let's talk to you about kids. You've got three kids? Three boys, yeah. Three boys and one their ages? 15, 13, and one just turned seven. Oh, okay. And the first question that comes to me when thinking about Louie Thru parenting is, you know, we've been here 10 minutes. I've opened up in a way I haven't opened up on this podcast before. You've got that ability. Thank you for that. Do you use your documentary and interviewing skills in dialogue with your own children? And are you able to get them to open up to you in a way that I wouldn't be able to do with my children?

It would be nice if that were the case, wouldn't it? It would be nice if my professional powers such as they are were applicable in the domestic setting. If anything, I don't know why this is the case, but it's almost the reverse. And if I can segue into a plug from my book through the keyhole, only because that's the, it's very on point, that's the sort of the theme really is the idea that whatever so cool-headedness that I display when I'm on location doing stories doing documentaries somehow I completely lose when I'm talking when I'm sort of with my family is really odd like. I'm reading about your Christmas Day in the book. Yeah, really you're angry and you're hung over. It's the word. Yeah, very hung over on over. the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. So the the the the th. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so cool, so cool, so cool, so cool, so, so cool, so cool, so cool, so cool, so cool, so, so, so cool, so, so cool, so cool, so cool, so cool, so cool, so cool, so cool, so cool, so cool, so cool, so, so cool, so cool, so, so, so, so, so cool, so, so, so cool, so, so, so cool, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so cool, so the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the cool, so cool, so cool, soover is the word. Yeah, very hungover on Christmas Day. If you were if you remember Christmas of 2020, it wasn't it wasn't the best of Christmas is. That was

the one when Christmas was canceled. Do you remember? Yes. The rug was pulled from under us. We had a turkey that was designed to feed 30 people and then sort of two days before Christmas whenever it was like well we're the the the the the the th. yeah. yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi th thi th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th. very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very th th th. very very th. Yeah, very thi thi thi thru thru thru thro very throooooooooooooooooooooo very thru thru thro very thro very thru thru thekey that was designed to feed 30 people. And then sort of two days before Christmas there, whenever it was, it was like, well, we're not having Christmas this year. Sorry, guys. He sat there with an enormous turkey. And then the night before, you know, I got into, I know I'm going off topic, but you know, so it was that feeling of like, well, I guess we've got really nothing nothing nothing nothing do other than speaking of myself, drink gallons of bourbon.

And what was I was watching die hard three or four? We were doing a sort of die hard marathon with a two older voice. Yeah. But the point being that I think it's the feeling of, I think it's like, in a professional setting, I'm so focused, I know what I'm there to do, and I have a sort of almost clinical detachment from what's going on. But when you're with your family, it's almost the reverse. You've got so much skin in the game, right? You're the one trying to, when I'm on location, I'm sort of trying to wind people up, if anything, you know, you're trying to make

something happen, right? If you could catalize an an an an an an an an an an an between a husband and wife who are swingers, that's golden, right? But on the home front, theoretically, you're trying to make things run smoothly, but when the kids are telling you to naff off or whatever it is, and you and actually you feel so much of your own vanity is invested in how they behave and then if they insult you the book is sort of unpacking a large part is unpacking all of this but that we the weirdness of feeling of feeling sort of all the rage and upset that you get as a dad who was incapable of asserting the slightest bit of control do you know what I mean yeah ally. It feels like the most irrelevant person in the room at any particular time. And you think, how did it? I've got three bafters.

Like, surely I can get a phone out of the out of the hand of a 12-year-old. Do you know what I mean? Like this doesn't match up. It doesn't match up. It doesn't match your shows and stuff. Um, the older ones. So, how, I. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I've, I've, I've th. I've th. I've th. I've th. I've th. I've th. I've th, I've th, I've th, I've th, I've th, I've th, I've th, I've th, I've th, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th. I've th. I've th. I've th. I've th. I've th. I've th. I've th. I've thi, I've that, I've that, I've got that, I've got that, I've got that, I've got th. I've got that, I've that, I've that, I've th kids. I've got free bafters. I've got free chavis indoors. Yeah, but they just don't have got, have they watched your shows and stuff? The older ones. The older ones, if they've watched them, well okay, interestingly, I've got some shows going out that are basically repackaged. There's shows that are sort of looking back at my old archive, you know, which a lot of that was going on when no one could make programs in locksdowns. Ruby Wax did some. My ones were called Life on the Edge. Ruby Waxes were good as well. I've just been sick. Here's some videos. Yeah, exactly. The first time I vamidded about Louis Thoreau? What's your view on Stacey Dooly? You call it? Stacey's terrific? You call it. I'm pro-a. I'm pro-I. I'm pro-I. I'm pro-I. I'm pro-I. I'm pro-I. I'm pro-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-I. the the th. th. th. th. I'm th. I've th. I've th. I'm just just the th. I've th. I've th. I've th. I'm the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm thi. I'm too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. tri. too. th. th. th. th. th. th. th's terrific. Like Stacey Dooley and that whole genre of first person reportage, Stacey's tremendous and actually, it's quite, you know, Mobean Azar is also really good. Reggie 8th who hasn't been.

Alis Levine? Very, very good. I have the privilege of executing Alice's most recent project, yeah. But the point was, oh the kids watching it. So I sat down with, um, what, what, to watch my own program, which I'm, you know, that's, there's no shame in that, is that, so I'll watch it go out. I think there's a bit, but not a lot. Yeah, two, two, nine o'clock. See what, I've had a sliver. look when it sits, when the continuity announcer goes, and now prepare for some strong language, as we join Louis Tharu, as he looks back, you know what I mean, and you're like,

oh, this is, you know, you've seen it in the edit suite, but how does it, how does it groove into the continuity of the program? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, of course, yeah. The eye dent comes up and my 15-year-old was in the room and I thought, that's the first time I've seen him actually sit down and watch, well, begin to watch one of my programs and then, two minutes later I saw when he was on his phone. Oh no, how did that feel?

It felt completely fine. It felt completely fine because actually, I don't expect them to see me as Louis Thru documentary maker quite evidently I'm Louis through I'm dad right I'm just dad and actually I think they if they ever want to watch them you know that they'll watch them and I'm happy to talk to them about that but in the end that them respecting my professional role is the last thing I'm worried about yeah yeah you what I mean mean? Yeah, exactly. I couldn't give a part. Yeah, be able to, I don't know, like find out what they actually do at school. You know what I mean? Or, or, um, to be able to, I don't know, like, get them to engage in some domestic chores, like, or eat some vegetable, you know what I mean? Not to sound really prosaic. Like the idea, like, have you watched my program

about Jimmy Savile? Do you think I could have done more to unmind? I mean, that's quite, that's not really. Yeah, that's not one. No. No, father should be. I bet the teen, like the 15-year-old one watch the porn one? That's probably they're probably going to watch. Yeah, they probably, yeah and and they probably and actually maybe they do watch some of them without me even being aware of it and prefer not. I think the whole idea of me having a profile as well is they're somewhat ambivalent about.

But one thing because as I'm out and about, we quite often get approached by people for selfies, which they find boring, you know, and even sometimes people go, okay, your dad got to say, can I, thanks for the selfie look, got to say, your dad is a really great man. No, I'm not saying this happens on a weekly basis, but once every six months or so, you know, someone will say something quite cringe like that. I don't say it's cringe because they don't want to hear that. What are they gonna go, oh, thanks, yeah, yeah, I guess he is a great man.

Do you know what I mean? So, why is he so drunk at Christmas crying at Geyard? Why is he forcing us to eat so much turkey? So that in the end, yeah, the idea of me having a profile is something they're not. And I think when I go to school, we were doing sixth form open days over the last week and it's always like, my oldest, who's 15, he's like, he says, can mom come, you know, instead of you? And I'm thinking, that's a bit rude. Thinking why, because he knows that I'm so irrelevant, that I've got no decision making. You know what I mean?

Oh, really? So I said, what, why would you all? Why would you all the mumm? And he said, he said, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, that, that, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that, that's, that's, that just because, you know, people see you on TV. And I realized it was just that he just didn't want to be the fath around it, yeah. He didn't want any of that murmuring. Yeah, because at school you just want to be left, you just want to get through it, don't you? You don't want any extra unnecessary attention about whether it's the coat

you've got or what you walk into the school. And sure enough when we went, I went with him to one of them and actually I thought, most of the time I thought, this is fine, I don't think there's any ripples of people sort noticing. But then at the end I saw a little clump of sixth formers and you know how you get a free song when you feel like you've been clocked. Yeah, and they were their their their their their their their their their their their their their they were their they were their their they were the and they, and they, it's almost like they start going quiet but buzzed like, shutters, it, bad, da, and they got the phones like, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, I'm tell you, look, look, there is, yeah, documentaries,

BBC 2, I'm telling you, yeah, and I was like, here we go would just be something you didn't. I went to uni and a Jack Straw's daughter was a was in my holes and she was defined by being Jack Straw's daughter. Yeah. Which you know obviously obviously at the time was a bigger deal than it is now. Well you've we've, we've we wouldn't think that would that think think think think think that that that that think that would that would that would that would that would that would that would that would that would that would that would that would that would that would that would that would that would this was it's not like being Michael Jackson's kid is it you know what I mean it's like what is there to be called blankets hard enough never mind just that

the people of Iraq Louis who were being invaded at the time oh no your dad's invaded Iraq for so last for you didn't even you know from your unique right political right political you've got a lot of a to the to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the the to to the to the to to the to the to the the to be to be to be to be to be to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their they. Political got you. Because you've got quite a, on pay, you got a lot of young fans, Louie, haven't you really? You're sort of a bit of in like a, on paper, because your documentaries came out ages ago, you spread quite a lot of a lot of ages. Some of them did. Some of them did. I have actually had some more recent ones. No, but what I'm saying is, but on paper you wouldn't expect an 18-year-old to be a big fan of a documentary about crystal meth or whatever of your money. Or indeed a program that was made in the 90s about, you know, UFOs or the porn industry. Because a lot of them, as you say, are old and 25 years I've been making programs or more. And so they have enjoyed some of them an unlikely afterlife. And I wish I could shed more light on why that would be the case and

I'm very grateful for that for the fact that I've got some relevance. Well because you've like pop up on like TikTok and Instagram and Twitter of like your memes and stuff of Louis Ferru reacting and no context Louis Ferru and things like that so you sort of really been adopted by that sort of Gen Z. They never saw those documentaries firsthand, but now they've sort of discovered you and through that and then now watching all your documentaries. Yeah, Netflix is behind part of it, I think. Really.

I think there was a time when they came on, when Netflix first appeared, what was that? What was that? 2013 or there about? It led to, and to, and I, and I, and I, and I, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the.. the. the. to. th. to. to. to. to. to. to. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. to. the. the, the. th led to a, and now I was sort of being more, people were getting more onto Twitter. And I remember when I first noticed on Twitter that there was this sort of unlikely buzz around old programs. And people kept saying, oh Louis Tharu, my money don't jiggle, like references to a rap episode.

Yeah. I'd made sort of 20 years before. So I think that permanent present of Netflix, where anything that's on there is slightly thiii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to think that permanent present of Netflix where anything that's on there is slightly timeless. You know, a lot of people, you know, Seinfeld, programs like, you know, that, again, all the programs, but my kids love our friends, right? And for them, that's, that's not defined by being from the 90s, right? That's just a great show that sits up there on Netflix and that they endlessly binge. And what do you watch friends with them? You know what? 18 months of the pandemic.

I didn't find I had an enormous amount of time to sit and watch old episodes of friends. I know a lot that people had different lockdown experiences, different pandemic experiences, and some people, especially people without kids, I think got quite bored and felt, oh, now I can actually arrange my tools in the tools shed or you do these sort of jobs that I've never got around to do. I've found that I was, I never had time. We had kids at home, and I don't know how old your kids are, but certainly the fact of us having a five-year-old who turned six in fact and then yeah turned seven this year it was that idea like we've got it was triage there was no there

was nothing there was never a moment where I thought oh you know I don't know what to do now because I've got so much free time you know what I mean like we had a four we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we had we had we had we had we had we had we we we we we we we we we we we have the the the the th we had a four th th th th th th th th th th th th th th that tho tho to to to to to have to have th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that to have a to have a to have to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to that that so much free time. You know what I mean? We had a four-year-old and a two-year-old so I was like, now me and Lou go, oh we need to sort that cupboard out and it was like, Lou, we never did that in the pandemic. Well where the fuck we can find time to do it now? Yeah. First day of the pandemic I said to Rose, I'm going to do to do one to do one to do one to do one one to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to to the the the to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the to to to to to to to to to to their. I their. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the two two two two two two two-year. two-coo-year-old-year-old-old two-year-old to-year-old tod-year-old. two-year-old. to-year-old, I to-old pandemic and then we'll have sorted the house out. I did one covered on day one and that was it. And that cupboard is now a fucking right off. They said, yeah, I did my wires behind the, you know, the wires behind the TV. Oh yeah. I'm gonna tie them up and a little rubber band and then I'm gonna get all the adapters and put them in an elegant little box and I thought well this is gonna be all.. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. I. I'm, tod. I'm, tod. I'm today. I'm today. I'm. I'm toy. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I's. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t to. t to. t to. to. t to to to to to to to t all the adapters and put them in an elegant little box. And I thought, well, this is going to be great. We're going to get, and then that was all done

by the end of that day, basically. I think what was it? I think that, I think it was the degree of, I think it was the amount of time We started a company, my wife and I, so we were both full-time, you know, there was no case of being furloughed. We were attempting to get commissions for the company that we started. So there was an enormous amount of stress around that. So yeah, the question was about friends.

No, I don't, I'd love it. Like in my dream scenario, I kicked back with kids and we play fortnight together. like, Like I'm capable of enjoying video games. I grew up with Defender and Scramble. Those are probably before your time. Yeah, no. But you know, the idea of, I don't seem to have, increasing I think, oh, maybe when I'm retired,

I'll be able to play video games. Because I don't have time now. Yeah. Do you consider yourself, I know you're big into hip-hop as well, you consider yourself kind of down with what they're into and stuff like that, or would you, would that be a worst nightmare to try and run to the moment level? I think, I don't actively attempt to sort of, you know, be hip or like speak their language or, but I'm curious about what they like and actually our 13 year old, he's, he's, he's, he's, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. He's, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to thi, to to thi, to thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi,, but I'm curious about what they like and actually our 13 year old, he's very strict about, well, I want to put this in the right way.

Basically, he insists that we listen to Capital Extra whenever we drive anywhere, which is a sort of dedicated to almost exclusively to grime and drill music of a fairly high octane sort and and so it's a lot of digger D and a jay tracy and yeah and dig dad and and and and and I could go on and no one the new one not the one I was I was I was I should an R D and all that and all of a but you must like this right louis do you you not like... Of course I do. And so... but occasionally I feel like, look, I won't mind hearing a bit of Radio 4 or is a

pandemic. Might be nice to know whether COVID-surging, you know what I mean? New variant, lockdown, you know what I mean? You think the war is, you know, the world's listen to the new R.D. and Diggadie, why not? But it is, no, but you do, you know, and I enjoy the music. So by osmosis, I've become, yeah, a connoisseur of, you know, the modest sort of that, of whatever's in the kind of the grime and R&B charts. And then with with with with with with the game, the game, I I I I I I I I I I the game the game the game, I I I the game, I the game, I the game, I the game, I the game, I the game, I the game, I the game, I the game, I their, I their, with regarding to with regard to the gaming I just see what they're I see what they're into but I don't get to play it really can you play it though if like you had the time probably not probably not you've got the chasing things there's a game that my that the

little one was playing it's called duck game I think the duck game and there's the game the game I there's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the little game is is the little game the little game the little game the little game game the little game the little game the little game the the the the the the the little game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game game the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the little little little one the little one the little little one the little little one the little little one the little little one the little little one the little little game game game game game game picking up guns and shooting each other. I think it's a PlayStation game and I tried to play it and it was something quite, you know how with kids in general, especially small kids, it's like obviously I've got to let him win some of the time. But can I win a bit? You know, that's the educational right. You can't let them win all the time. They'll never learn. They'll the the they won. T won. T won. T won. T won. the the th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin. thin. thin. thin. the thoe. thin. thin. the their. their. their. the. th. thi. thi. thi. the. the. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. I's. It's. It's the the the the the the t, the te. I's the te. I's the the the the try. I's the the the the the try. I's the the t also I quite want to win, it's the other part of it. But with the Duck game, it was this weird thing of like, oh, I've got to that point of middle age where I'm actually worse than a five-year-old at the game. Yeah. I'm trying to win and losing. I'm always playing. I've always played computer. I've always played. I've always play, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've the the, I've, I've the, I've the, I've always played, I've always played, I've always played, I've always played, I've always the the the the the the the the the the th. I've, I've, I've always always always always always always the the the the the the th. I've th. I've th. I've th. I've th. I've, I've th. I've, I've, I've the the the the the the the the the th. I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've always played, I've always played, I've always played, I've always played. I've always played, I've always played, I've always played, I've always played, I've always played, I've always played, I've always played, I've always played, I've always played, I've always always played, I've always always played, I've always played, I've always like when I thought they never used to do this multiplayer. Multiplayer when I was a kid was you had an attachment that you plugged into your machine and everyone used to come to your house. But now it's all online and everywhere I find it is so hard to keep up and you see like a ten-year-old will just destroy you on thrown destroy you on those games and it's almost it's it's it's almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost the the the the the their their th is th is th is th is th is th is th is thi is almost almost almost almost almost thi thi thi thi thi throw throw thi thi thro thrown tho. It's tho. It's tho. It's tho. It's thi. It's almost almost almost almost almost almost almost thi. It's thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi thi. thi. thi thi thi thi. thi thi thi. thi. thi thi thi. thi. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to to to to to to to to to the to to to the throoooooooooooooooooo. thi them. I do want to play strangers across the world. It is fun. Is it? Yeah, but you're not playing strangers. You're playing your friends just

in their house. Oh right, okay. You know, you don't have to. Josh is coming off more middle age than I am. Louis, it's an absolute night. Can they see me through the screen? Can they see me through the screen? Where are they? Turn that camera off? Put a blanket over the webcam. I don't want people seeing me. The television's talking to me. How do they know my name? People do this. Surely, I'm sure Alex Brooker from the last leg, he got suspended by FIFA for having a go to a child with his...

I'm... It's like robot. There is this strangers... I don't know if Roblox is the one where... That's big in it. You suspect that there's a... no disrespect to the platform but you suspect there's populations of pedophiles all playing it and and so they... Ah, you know, and you think that, oh, but maybe it's, I'm sure it's fine, but you just the anonymous hordes with with usernames

but you know this is the world we're now you're now you're now on the lookout for pedophiles at all times Louis after the Jimmy Savile pulled them all over your own. Aren't we all? Isn't that the nature of I mean we're in the sense of like a world a world in wold in the world? in which we're connected virtually to people, as you say, strangers across the world, stranger danger. No, they invade our homes almost literally, like wire our devices, you know,

tick-to-talk, you know, when your kid comes to you and says, I've made a new friend on Roblox, don't pretend that, like, some part of your mind is thinking, like, hang on, red, red, red, lots of, not a, peda. Boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, has a peda. Yeah, yeah, well, you know, that's the thing, it's that, it's that loss of control where my mom, still now, always goes like, even the same friends that I had when I was 15 because she knows their moms. Yeah. You know what I mean? So like it's just that, except, well, can't go out with them because I sort of know them

and I know their mom and I know they're nice and all that kind of stuff. That loss of the issue, isn't it's a lot of the virtual aspects of the human experience like the family life because we couldn't mix socially. So grown-ups were on Zoom calls either for work or doing zoom quizzes or Zoom cocktail parties and the kids were gaming for a while. They're on their they're on their devices a lot and then I realized that's the only interaction they have. Like if you're going to chat in your lesson as you would normally at school, the homeschooling version is you've got your phone next to you and you're going like, this is boring or I can't do this. Can you help me on the math stuff or gaming and they've got the headsets on? It felt I don't know about you,

but my experience of 2020 and 2021 wasn't just that we were going through a pandemic. It was almost like the future got accelerated. Yeah. And it was the weirdness of virality, not in the literal sense of germs or whatever they are, viruses, but in the sort of virtual sense of, wow, we're all kind of, you know, we've got this new app that took off called Tick Tock, which has the most aggressive data harvesting algorithm of any of the social media platforms and they're profiling us and you know and I don't mean to sound like a techno kind of paranoid kind of mentalist, but I you know it's quite evidently our lives are being changed and we're experiencing the world in a different way and there are concerns that go along with that. And we don't quite know what any of it means and parts of it are positive because we can still communicate and other parts of it feel less positive because we're aware that slightly sinister data corporations are getting an enormous amount of info on us. Do you have rules with your kids on what they can do and can't do?

Well, it would be nice wouldn't it? I mean, the rules are pretty relaxed in our house. I mean, the the, the, and actually we've tried to pull it back a bit that, but it was, the, the, to, to, to, to, the, to, to, the, to, the, to, to, the, to, to, the, the, the, to, the, the, the, the, to, the, to, the, the, the, the, the, to, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, tttttttttttthe, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, tried to pull it back a bit but it was it was a bit like well we're in the middle of a kind of world altering pandemic. Yeah. So the fact that they're on their phones a lot or that you know the little guy the five-year-old's up and go straight to his iPad like in the normal world I'd be like no iPad until after breakfast like that you know like if you the the the the the the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the. I the. thea. I tho. I tho. I tho. I's tho. I's tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. the the th. th. th. th. th. the is the is to to to to. to. to. to. to you want to watch YouTube, you've got to at least put some socks on. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you can't have that until they have a germ on toast. Yeah, meaning, kind of meaning, like, why don't to wear socks to watch YouTube?

This doesn't make any sense. You know, some big leaf that some authority is maintained. Yeah. But actually the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules the rules. I I I I I the rules. I the rules. I the rules. I the rules. I the rules. I the rules. I to to to to to to to to to to to watch to watch to watch to watch to watch to watch to watch to watch to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their. I their. I their their their their the the their the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th.o.o. I toe. so the rules are pretty much just designed to maintain some illusion of control, but at the end of the day, we don't have many rules. Not really, we have screens during the week. You know, some families like we don't have screens, and even screens. I mean, I'm sort of, come on, why don't you watch a bit of TV? Like put the iPhone down And watch a bit, you know, like like, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the th, th, th, the the th, the rules, the rules, the rules, the rules, the rules, the rules, the, the rules, the, thi, thi, the rules, the rules, thi, thi, the rules, thus, the rules, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thi, th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the rules, their, their, thi,, come on, why don't you watch a bit of TV? Like put the iPhone down and watch a bit, you know, like in my day, it was like, put the TV, you know, twitch the TV off and read a book. Now watching the TV feels like the educational option, you know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's a point in the evening where they're supposed to stop gaming. And, I know, I'm, you, you, you, you, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, like, I, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the, like, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. Yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, t. Yeah, t. Yeah, t. Yeah, t. Yeah, t. Yeah, the, the, the. Yeah, there's a point in the evening where they're supposed to stop gaming.

And I know, I'm telling how much. It's about 11 o'clock. It's not the little one goes up about 8 o'clock. I know I've got it. 11 p. Yeah, 11 p. It doesn't sound good, does it? It'll be the Pido guide. Come on kids, I've got work in the morning, give me a chance, see a macket there. But the point being, as long as they've done their homework and as long as they are, you know, basically doing it. So we have dinner together, we, you know, we sit down and have a meal together, you know, they clear their plates. Those are a few the benchmarks, the benchmarks, the benchmarks, the benchmarks, the benchmarks, the benchmarks, th benchmarks, th benchmarks, th benchmarks, th benchmarks, th benchmarks, thinks, the benchmarks, thinks, the benchmarks, thinks, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they.a, they.a, they. And, their, they. And, their, their, their, their, their, their, their clear their plates. Those are a few of the benchmarks, do you know what I mean? In terms of some level of civility that we try and maintain. I do find though, with the gaming there,

because I experienced when I played war zone, which is basically you log on to this game and it's sort of like a army game, but you text you text you gaming used to be like, oh it's not very sociable, but actually it's more sociable than them just sitting on the sofa on their phone. That's the point. They're sat there chatting, but because they're in front of a screen on a computer, it's the same as when I used to go down to the local park and sit in a circle, and then someone will get a bottle of cider or whatever it's they was, they was, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they's, they're, they're, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sat, they're sat, they're sat, they're sat, they're sat, they're sat, they're sat, they're they're they're they's, they's..... They, they's, they's, they's.. They, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're sitting. They're sitting. They're sitting. They're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, they're sitting, generation like you know you're not they're playing a game but you're not you are chatting with friends it's just it's just like say we say in the middle of this mad revolution you say that's better for them than when I used to sit alone and play

championship manager for 12 hours on my own in my bedroom yes yes that's what I'm saying but what the 12 hours that would be yeah yeah right, isn't it? It's a different paradigm. It's not just watching open university for three hours as I did of a morning. You know, when I had woken up and my parents were still asleep and I had nothing to do. It's not mind numbing and solidistic. It's actually, as you say, it's social and they're interactive.

And they're like, they make appointments with their friends and oftentimes I realize when I say like right time to get off and they're really upset it's because they've made an appointment with someone who's expecting them to turn up and and so I'm like why is he there's so much rage like come and you try and lay the law down and and actually what you don't appreciate is there's much more going on to do with that you know the peer group and what they're up to my my my my my my their their their their their their their their their their their their their they're their they're they're their they're they're they're their they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're their they're they're they're they're they they they they're they're they're they're they they they're they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're their their their their their their to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their to their their their their their their their their the option, which I have only done once, I think, because some of their gaming they do, and also they only go on at one of the time. So we got one machine, they're like, we want to get two PlayStations. I said, no, that there's a hard no on that, because that's one of the few ways we can't, they figure out have to, there has to be some element of restraint because they can't both be on it at the same time.

But when there was a... I'll give you two more years max before you get another way. Yeah, maybe, we'll see. We'll be in the metaverse. We'll have to be in the metaverseers, we'll have two more years. Can you imagine we'll be just playing with chips. I want to download the PlayStation chip into my neurocircuits, right? I want to get a new neurocircuit. Anyway, that's what Elon Musk is saying is going to happen.

Anyway, the point is that they're down, there's one of them was being a little bit cheeky and he went off in a strop and I said, no, you're not going back on. The gaming that they do, there's a studio at the bottom of the garden that we got built that was supposed to be for me and my wife to work in and then became the gaming zone. And what I discovered was one day with a delight, I looked at the fuse box in it and it said garden studio on one of the switches and I realized that I had control over all the electric and I said you're coming back young man you're coming back you said you're coming back young man you're not doing it and he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he he said he he said he said he said he said he said he said he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said he said you said stop me or something like that and I went back and I said to Nancy my wife I said you know you know there's a switch I can turn off I said wow and she said don't do it so give him a chance I said give him a warrant so I went down so you're gonna come off there I'm

telling you you know whatever he refused and so on down there on his little joystick through the French windows and then suddenly it went dark and I just saw a little silhouette of someone trying like, figure up like the incomprehension and then the screen, his screen had gone. It was the level of, if I felt like Smyron, do you know what I mean? Sort of being able to just, oh I can just eliminate people just with a flick of a switch anyway and after that they knew they knew that I had the power so I happened to do it. What was his reaction to that? Was he was angry? Was he quite actually respecting the hustle of you finding the fuse switch because

you got a lot when you're annoyed that you've got to be good to be fair yeah it was rage and respect there there was there was there was there was the the the the the the the the the the the that was that was that was that was to to to to to to to that was to that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that that that that to that to that that that that that to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be that that to be that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that's that's that's that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that the that the the the that they. they. that they. that that's that they. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's to that. It was rage and respect. There was some part of it like fine. It was like a little bit okay I get that check mates. Amazing. Oh that was a bit like mums in the 90s could turn the internet off by picking up the landline. I think that's very true isn't that. Just back. They were more powerful than Bezos in about 96, weren't they, mum's? That's a good throwback. That was like the feeling when you went to make a phone call and then you realize, you heard, and you realized, oh, I've just interrupted my dad's internet. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. You could have quickly down, you'd to make it.

Maybe no one will notice. In our house as well, I'll th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thou. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the feeling, the feeling, the feeling, the feeling, the feeling, the feeling, the feeling, the feeling, the the feeling, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. I. th. the. the. I was, the. I was, to. to. tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. I was. too. the. the. I was. the. then you was upstairs you could listen to the conversation you could and then your mom would shout you when your friend called and you'd get it on the upstairs phone and then you'd wait and you go can you put down the downstairs phone but like you didn't want to listening in on your phone conversations. You were saying that Stuart that was the badger mono and that was you knew you knew you'd made it when you were a steward. the. the. the. the the the the the the the the the the the the stupid. the the stupid. the the they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. the they. they. they. they. You'd they. You'd they. they. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. the up. I. I. the up. I was the up. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. the. I was. the. the. the. the.......................... the. the. the. thinking about, Joe Pasquale, he did quite a long routine. Do you remember about Joe Pasquale? I don't know that it was enormously helpful to Joe Pasquale. No, but I think it was a sign that he'd become a household name and was successful in his field, you know? I'm worried I'm going to find out about it is that it's just an aside. He just made a joke as an aside one night and so I haven't even qualified. I've got the kind of slap. But he's actually I haven't made it into a routine. In your head what's he having a pop at you for?

Oh that's a good question isn't it because that's saying what are your biggest dislikes about your own persona and professional image? Yeah? Yeah, it might not be dislikes because it might be because it might not be dislikes because it might be something you're fine with. For the sake of argument, you're family friendly or I don't know insufficiently left way. Or it might be observations because that's an easy Stuart Lee things. He's done that before. I think that before. I thi that before that you're, th the th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the the the thi the the the their their their their thi might not their their their their might not be their, it might not their, it might not their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thi might might might might might might might might thi thi. thi. It might not be thi. It might not be thi. It might not be thi. It might not be thi. It might not thi. It might not thi thi. It might not thi. It might not thi. It might notly left way. Or it might be observations because that's an easy Stuart Lee thing because he's done that before about people observing stuff.

I think it would be mainstream and mundane. Or that you're not disabled and you're not disabled. That's a good one. If you were to write, he's to be disabled. Well people think Josh is disabled. It'd be like, you know the guy, the one that hangs around with the two disabled guys, you know that guy. That guy. He's got that, he's got that annoying voice that goes like this, that guy. Everyone's got the thing that they think other people know about them that.

You know, like if it was Jimmy Carr, it might be taxes, right? Yes. Yeah, it might be a Jimmy Savile reference. where you were caught. I don't think not to my knowledge. No, you're clean, clean, clean car, yeah, Josh. That's worse in a way because whatever it is hasn't come out yet. I keep him stroking his chin all panicked. Look at this, he looks so worried right now. It always looks panicked, isn't he? Jigling in my chair. I'm not jiggling in my chair. Yeah, I'm like rubbing his hands together, lean back. Look at their him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him him their their their their their their their their their their their. He this, you'd have a field day on Big Brother's Little Brother, all these tales, they'll get the body language expert on. You see Josh, they struck his chin, lean back.

I want to do my hands now. I want to touch my face, I'm not allowed to. What are you going to do? Do you worry about the way people perceive you? Of course. I mean the other the other the other the other the other the other the other the other the other the other. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I the other, I the other, I the other, I the other, I the other, I, I the other, I, I the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th... thro, thro, tho, to, to. thro, tho, they. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the podcast about John Ronson. And by the way, both of these are referenced in my book. I talk about, it's not just family life, I talk about starting my podcast grounded in my book through the keyhole, because it was one of the ways I stayed busy during lockdown.

I sort of reinvented myself as a podcaster. Constantly, you and John Ronson. Well, John, you got with others. Is it beef? You got beef with Ronson? It was a very big Ian Tupac kind of situation. Oh, I love it. I love a posh, posh boy beef. What was it? A right smile? Roller the eyes. What was the real problem? I tried to. I tried to, I've heard it's a sugar night that set you against each other actually. It wasn't it wasn't actually either of your fault. It was Shug Knight who was the real problem. He was stirring his up. I wonder who the Shug Knight is in this scenario. So what happened? Because I don't think

he was a direct. Anything about anything about this? What's the beef? If you know, he's a terrific riser who wrote the psychopaths and then going back to the early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early early. before I was ever on TV, he had a series called The Ronson Mission. And he was a columnist for Time Out. And he was a brilliant comic journalist who would write about quirky subjects like so sex workers or swingers, religious cults. So the sorts of terrain that I later was known for covering. And so his series, the Ronson Mission wasn't, it was a great series, but wasn't especially widely viewed. And when I popped up, I think he felt, and was, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. It was th. It was th. It was th. It was th. It was th. It was thi. It was thi. It was thi. It was, thi. It was thi. It was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was a thi. It was a thi. It was a thi. It was a thi. It was a th. It was a th. It was a th. It was a th. It was, it was a th. It was a th. It was a th. It was th. It was th. It was to to to to to to toed. It was a toed. It was a toed. It was a toe. It was a thi. It was a thi. It was a brilliant. It was a brilliant. It was a brilliant. It was a brilliant. It was a brilliant. It was a brilliant. It was a thi. It was a thi. It was a wasn't, it was a great series, but it wasn't especially widely viewed. And when I popped up, I think he felt,

well he did feel because he said, he said, well, the quote he gave, he said, I felt a bit like the Pixies, must have felt after Nirvana came along, which I think is an interesting musical reference, because it's actually not insulting to me. There's a bit in his book them. I don't know if you've read his book. I've read that I've read all John's books. Yeah and so he's out he's being followed but in a car outside the Bilderberg group and he calls the police to say I'm being followed and they say what do you do and he says I'm a

journalist I write these stories and the police say I'm a journalist I'm a. their stories and this is this is this is this is he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he is is a point he's is a point he's is a point he's is a point he's a point he's a point he's a point he's a point he's a point he's a point he's a point he's he. he's being he's being he's a point he's a point he's a p. he's. he's. he's. he's. he's he's. he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he. he's. he's the th. he's th. he's being he's being. He's being. He's being the the the th. He's being. He's being. He's being. He's a. He's being. He's a. He's a. He's being. He's a. He's being. He's being the the things he does and the police say oh like Louis Thoreau yeah love it this is great yeah and he's like well no I was originally the one that did it he wanted he won't the wacks comes out the passenger say well actually I think you'll find I've done interviews as well fucking hell it's like no one's never asked anyone anything about themselves before on tell yeah Parkinson pops up well I th you I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I th you you you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th th you th th th th th th you th you th you th you th you th you th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they'll they'll th the the the the the to the to to the to the like like like like like like like like like like like they're they're they're they're they rivalry. It's like no one's ever asked anyone anything about themselves before on telling. Parkinson pops up, well I like you to do it sat down. Did you ever end up? Because you're good friends now.

Yeah, yeah, and we were always, well, so good before, I actually had met him at that point. And it was more of a great mind through mutual friends that I heard, oh John's, you know, he's got, you know, he's having a bit of angst over the fact that you've kind of, you're doing a more successful version of what he was doing. And I was such a big fan of John, that I suppose I thought, what did I think? I thought, well that's a big compliment, like the idea that, you know, he was one of that, well, that's a big compliment, like the idea that, yeah, yeah, you know, he was one of that, when I was coming up, when I saw the Ronson Mission,

he was one of those people's thought, oh, I really love that, I wonder if I should write him a letter and let him know, I never did. You know, like very, you know, very, you don't have to have maybe not, but anyway I thought about it. And so when I heard that he really enjoyed the series to the point of having a kind of existential crisis over it, I thought, well that's, you know, that's about the highest compliment, you know, I caused him a mini breakdown. That's what you're. There's no higher compliment than that, really. And then later we met and we talked about it. And then he did more his writing, he he he's been into an ever upward gradient of success with his writing, he moved to America and so when I interviewed him for the podcast and

actually I, you know, his books are so terrific and then when I would read them I'd get a pang of, of, of, of, of, of, of, sort of professional envy of feeling like, wow, he's such a terrific writer and then he's a terrific and then he's, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he.... He. He. He. He. He. He. He, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, t. t. t. t. t. t. t. toe. to. to. t. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. t. t. to. to, he's, he's such a terrific writer and then he sells books by the shed load and then he's in America and America's buying all his books and suddenly it felt a bit like role reversal like I was like Ronson like he's really successful in America you know where I've got you know I guess a pleasingly kind of selective appreciation among my fan base like I I don't know when in America really knows who I am. And so when we talked I said to John he said like you know I'm very relaxed now about you, you know it was really painful. I'm try not to do an offensive John Ronson's. Yeah, I'm doing pretty bad job of that because I think he said back in the day like I used to find it painful that, you know, but now I'm really relaxed. And I was basically saying like, yeah, yeah, I find it a bit more painful now. To be honest, it's nice to be honest about it with each other though, because that's when

if you don't talk about it, I think that's a bit of a hangover from like, you know, 25 years to go when you started doing all these shows then Ronson didn't get the call. And then it was like, well, what's my career? It's all over like now. I can't, that's been taken. And I think Mock the Week was like that with comedians. But now there's so many avenues. You can do do podcasts, you can do you do do you do generation coming through I think on tele Josh. Do you think that's true? Do you know what always happens and I'm sure is you'll be in an interview and someone will go, God, you know, bet it's really horrible you and your peers, you know, you must all hate each other and you're jumping all over each other on each other's lines and what the week and stuff. And I think like all of our generation, there's something weirdly,

we're all much more matey than I think people would ever, yeah. Like to think in a way. Do you know what I mean? There's very little kind of beef. But all these things can also coexist is the other thing. You can love someone. And also, if I have one sortthing that's almost I feel is a misapprement

about the nature of human psychology, it's the idea that our motivations and our feelings are also unitary, like, oh, you feel either profound love or you feel profound hate, and there's nothing intermixed or alloid about it. And actually, to this day, like there's people who I care very much about, who at the same time, if I saw them get an incredibly good review that said, actually, you know, this person is a genius and there's no one alive today is going to achieve any, there's some little part of me that will feel a pang, you know. Totally. I love James Acaster. you know. Totally. I love James Acaster. th. my oldest friends, but if I see another suggested Instagram of a fucking James Acaster meme,

I would be delighted, because if I say it's just the bane of my life. Yeah. They are he is he hates it as well. He quit Instagram, he doesn't even have to see him. So we don't need to put these up. He's not even here anymore. What about you and Rob? You work to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, right? Sometimes it's the ones that you are actually married to professionally that you feel like this odd little, well, why did you get the call and I didn't?

Have you ever talked about that? Well, no, so, well, we've, I don't think so really, with me and Josh haven't experienced thatation in the same category and then he was also nominated for best entertainment performance like the sort of one with it was like Bradley Walsh and a few Adam Hills and a few other people, Clawy Winkham and and stuff like that. And I was sat next to him and I was like, and he'd won it for best, he'd won it, he'd won it for best performance and I was like, oh I wonder how I'm gonna feel. Cause you never know how you feel. But I was so relieved that I was just like so excited for him and so happy and then he came and sat back down again and then the next award come up and it was for that one for us. And the one even, I went,

and I was like, he could win best performance without me again in an award up against it. I wouldn't, this should be nightmare fuel. But I was like, this on paper's like an anxiety dream. But I sat there and then I think big nasty one anyway, but I genuinely was like, that was one of my favorite nights in my career that I could be at an award thing like that and be so happy for a mate and not really be bothered. Where other people there. Yeah. And that, honestly, was almost better feeling actually than winning it because it was like, you have the still

so how you feel if that happens, but I was just generally so buzzing for him. And you can see the reaction of it. It was a genuine like, oh, yeah, fucking well, thanne. Because you know what, but ultimately, it don't really matter. And I knew it and you're like, maybe I'm a nice person, you know. Yeah, well exactly. Do you know what, when I was, because I don't like going to those things, I find them really oppressive and it's why I used to hate Edinburgh because it makes you in competition with people

that you don't want to be in competition with, do you know what I mean? We weren't nominated this year for last leg for the first time in five years? Yeah, we've never won. But he loves it of all, Josh. Do you know what? I was so relieved when we weren't nominated because I thought I don't have to go through that experience of going again. Well, yeah, but then maybe that experience shouldn't matter so much. No, I know, but that's. Because for me, I get, I love doing Robin Romish. I get to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the their, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I to their, I their, I'm, I their, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tho, I'm tho, I'm tho, tho, thooo, thooooooooooo, thoooooooooooo, thooo, Romish. I get to spend time with my mate all day

and making a show I really, really love. If we win that BAFTA, that's not going to make my day-to-day enjoyment of that show. that's not going to make my day-to-day enjoyment, so that's the main thing, all tracked to that something that's really successful that you hate, I might as well just stayed working in my old jobs if that's the case, but you can see how it traps people. This is the thing though, because I'm a bit older and actually in a weird way you find when you get older you care slightly more and I don't know why that would be the case. Really? That's my experience. So I that's that's that's that's that's that's why. that's why. that's why. that's why. that's why. that's why. that's why. that's why. that's why. that's why. that's why. that's why. that's why. that's that's that's the their. the their. their. their. their. that's all. their their. their their their their their their their their their. I's all. I's all. I's all. I's all. I's all. I's all. I's all. I's all. I's all. I's all. I's their. I's their. I. I. I. I. I. I. I's their. I's their. I's their. I's the. I's the. I's all. I's all. It's the. It's all. It's the. I's all. It's all. It's the. I'm. It's all. It's all. It's all. It's the. I'm. I'm. It's the. I's the. I the case. That's my experience. So I think I care much less. Like I really cared about stuff when I was, like in Edinburgh, it really destroyed me. Like it became a really,

like that first year when you could be nominated for a newcomer. It was like a horrible thing for the whole month. That Edinburgh, my first Edinburgh, I got a spot on the end of my nose on the first day that was so bad. It started getting reviewed itself, didn't it? It got nominated without me. I thought it was so bad. I had to get makeup put on it by the person who was producing the show every day. And the spot stayed for the whole of Edinburgh and then went 24 hours after Edinburgh. Really? Yeah, but now I really don't feel, I feel like John Ronson when he's being interviewed by you

Louis, I feel much more laid back about the whole thing. Well that's where you want to be really, isn't it? So why do you think you care more now, Louis? Because on paper, I don't think there's anything else you can really achieve, like you look like an all-round success in the traditional sense. I think what happened was I won't thakered thakered thakered thua thua thua thuuuuuu. I was I was I won won won. I was I won. I won. I won. I won. I won. I won. I won. I won. I'm thu. I'm tho. I'm tho. I'm tho. I'm tho. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm tho. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. t. toda. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the was quite young and the first one, yeah, this is going about 20 years, like 2000, 2001, something like that. And even, and the second one, I was in a weird place at the time, so I just felt very blank about it. And then what, and then over the next sort of 15 years, 20 years, I made some amazing programs. I mean, I, well, I mean part biased, but, you know, and when, you know, programs in

San Quentin Prison and the Westboro Baptist Church, and then year on year, I might have got nominated a few times, but never won, and I think what happened was when I find, I want to, when I'm finding one another one, I sort of thought, actually I deserve this. That sounds dreadful, but, you know, the first the first the first the first the first the first the first the first the first the first the first the first the first to to to to to to to to to to to the first to to to to to to to to to to me to me to me. And I to me to me to me. to me. to me. to me. to me, I'm, I'm, I'm, to me, to me, to, to, to, to, to, to me, to me.. And, to me. And, to me. And, to me. And, I was, to me. And, to me. And I to me. And I to me. And I to me. to me. to me. to me. to. to. to. the the the the th. th. the th. th. the th. to. to. the the toe. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. That sounds dreadful, but you know, the first two, I thought like, well, this is a crap shoot, who cares? You know what I mean? And it's a meaningless, formal more or less. But then by the time, you know, when 20 years go by, and you've made a ton of programs, I sort of thought, well, why not, actually, this isn't going to happen, thapapapapapapapap.......... th. th. th. th. th. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the. the, the, the, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the.... the. the. the. the. the, the. to, to, to, to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the. the years, I always try to make a conscious decision to make it mean something.

Even if it's arbitrary, which to a great extent those things are, why not allow it to count for something? Does that make sense? No, I definitely think you can't, you shouldn't be, they mean nothing. It's a nice thing to win. It's a nice thing to win, it's a to win, it's a to win, it's a to win, it's a to win, it's a to win, it's a to win, it's a to win, to win, to win, to win, thin, thin, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which is, which, which, to to to the the to the the the the the the their, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which. to to the to to to to to the to the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. to to the to to to the to to the to to to the to to to the to the to the the the thi. the the the thi. thi. thi. th kind of stuff. So you have to accept that it's worth something. You know, here's the other thing. It's what you realize is it means something to other people.

Yes. And it's odd isn't it, I don't quite know what to make of this, but it's that feeling of when you realize something, It's like the first time you realize people people people people people are going like, second one built, second one was up to 1.5. And you're like, what does that mean? Yeah. That's good, you're growing.

And then the third one is up to three, three million. And that's really good, is it? Yeah, and then the what is it? Yeah, well, no, it doesn't matter. You're like, no, what is it? Well, the ratings are in. Yeah, and 1.2. I'm like, well, that doesn't sound too bad. Yeah, it is not brilliant. And then you're like, oh my God. And then you're being, it's encoded then it becomes almost a mini obsession because you realize this is more than reviews,

more than anecdotal feedback. This is the barometer by which everything is judged. And the same thing with the bafters is he's like, oh, sorry about the bafter. Yeah. Oh, it's fine. Ronson deserved it or whatever. The thing. her time, it was her year. But actually, then the fifth person is like, oh, it's too bad about the Bafta. And you're like, yeah, you start to feel it. Do you know what I know? I don't know,

you have to ignore it. With you and Romish, we're like, oh, shame about Romish. Oh, you must be feel really shitty about that. And you're like, no, I'm fine. And then, when, when it, when it, when it, when it, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, they, they, they, the, the, the, the, the, when, the, the, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, the, the, the, the, the, the, you, you, you, you, you, you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the, yeah, the, yeah, the, yeah, yeah, the, the, you, the, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you. the, the, you. the, you. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and I loved it. And you know, we had a great big house and I didn't realize that it had a bit of a sort of a connotation of being sort of a bit rough and ready. And I found myself at parties, they said, where do you live? I said, I'm theyre, and I said, then I'm like, oh, the face something like, oh dear, sorry about that. And you find yourself affected, like you find it other people's value judgments somehow are contagious, right? Yeah, as much as you might want to resist it. You have to, I think you have to work on a vaccine internally, don't you? to sort of be oblivious. There we go.

There we go. You need that.thing I can say this about the Baftas, next time you're worried about the Baftus, just remember they gave Role Farris one. So, you know, do you really want to be part of that, alumni? Well, exactly. Probably more than one. theymea than one. Did he only get one of the fellowship. Well Jimmy Savile got a knighthood right? Yeah he did. Have they stripped him of that? Well I don't know if you can strip someone who's already died of a knighthood can you? I don't know. They go they'll find the grave and do a little word thing but in reverse. Just to take it back.

Left to right instead of right to left. Nowood. How often do you think about Jimmy Savile? Do you think about him daily? Do you know what? I've kept a diary of the last 18 months and it's in book form. Yeah. Through the keyhole. Diaries of a grounded documentary maker. How can I get a hold of it?

You can buy it off Amazon. There's also, oh there's an audio book. Where is it in the charts? How are you feeling about that? It's in top five on audible. How you feeling about that? Someone above you, hey? How's that getting you read? And I mention it because Jimmy Saville is in it. You get a sense of the extent to which it comes up, which is to say not, not daily. It's not at the forefront of my mindhehea. for a new TV series it will almost always get mentioned and it will be was Jimmy's

sell your biggest failure that was one question I was asked and then there's a story in the book in the book where I talk about going through the park on a walk on a ramble with the kids and and my wife and the woman says you I just I have to tell you you're absolutely fantastic you to to to to to the the the the the the the the the to the the the the to the the the the to to to the the to the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to tell you, you're absolutely fantastic. Keep doing what you do. You are wonderful. And she wanders off and I say to my wife, isn't that nice? Like that's the great thing. Everyone should have that. You know, imagine if all people had random strangers coming up and saying, you are wonderful. The place would be so full of joy. So then we walk a bit further down the park and there's a guy sitting on a with an old bicycle and he looks over he says about Jimmy then and I saw and I think keep walking keep walking and as I dis-

and I thought and he goes yeah I go all right yeah and I keep walking he goes like he's gonna haunt you oh god and then and I said to my wife well so it kind of balances out yeah you're wonderful but you'll be haunted by Jimmy Sam. Yeah, well I think what's more annoying is that people see you as the only person ever interviewed him, gave him a job or knew about what he was doing, you didn't know he was doing, but the only person ever met him in his whole career which is very unfair just because a victim of your own success of that big show but yeah no you shouldn't shouldn't, that shouldn't haunt you, should he completely forget about that. Thank you for that. One final question, we've gone off a bit of off topic with parenting,

I think it's been a brilliant episode, so that's fine. The question is, is the one thing your partner does, parenting that annoys you a bit? Yes. Yes. Yes, go on what? Well, since we're in the season of holiday goodwill, one of the things she does is she buys the kids advent calendars, I'm fine with that.

Advent calendars with chocolates in them. And then for the whole of December, at least till the Christmas day, it's considered acceptable to have chocolates at breakfast. And for me, I'm old-fashioned that way. I just sort of think, you know, I love chocolate, but you don't have chocolate at breakfast, and it feels like all bets are off. Suddenly we're in savagery.

Do you know what I mean? Like, oh, I'm just gonna have chocolates. Meals don't matter. Who, you know, forget cereal. So I don't make a big thing out of it but I kind of exude a sort of wary sense of judgment when those advent calendars come out. Can I suggest other advent calendars you can get? they do plamobile ones and Lego ones where they get a little things to build and then they do that in the morning rather and quit they're quite good.

Just a lovely picture of a shepherd. I used to be excited about the door. I used to be excited about the door. The door the door the door the door the door the door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. The door. the door. the door. the door. the door door door. the door, the the door. the door door door door door. the door. the door. the door. the door. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. things. things. things. things. things. things. things. things. things. the the the things. the the the the picture's bigger on this one. Like I would get a thrill out of opening the little, right out of the little door and seeing a, oh it's a robin. Yeah you can't have that. That was before Google image search. People too busy playing computer games but again strangers to enjoy a stranger. Strangers across the world with a TV watching me. I just want a little picture of a thrown. A dog. A wrong with a picture of a donkey with a pregnant woman on it? Really? Is that is there something wrong with that? Thank you very much, Louis. Thoreau, threw the keyhole, loved it. Through the keyhole, we've played that plenty. Good luck with everything. Good luck in the podcast charts. Keep doing what you do.

See you later. Cheers mate. Bye bye. Louis Ferru. I love Lou Furu. I just listened to him the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho tho th. th is tho tho the is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th is is is is th. th. th is is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th. th is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the is the is the is the. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. the. the. Louferu. I just listened to him forever. He's great, isn't he? And what you don't get when you watch his documentaries, obviously, is how self-analytical he is. Do you know what I mean? He really beats himself up, he really thinks about what he's thinking and what he's going through and what his emotions are and stuff like that. Like you you he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he th. tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho th th tho tho th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho to to to to to to to to to to to to thoo-cou to him about his family and he's properly thinking about his

emotional responses to it and stuff. He's like he's very self-analytical in a way that makes you feel better about your own family torment should we say. Well yeah, so are you saying that's, thoubling, though, should you say that's what you should be doing? Well yeah, so are you saying thin' tho'theat me better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better better.. the way. the way. Yeah and rather than that's what you should be doing. My argument would be you shouldn't need to torment yourself that much. Yeah but easily be through and it's fine. You could you know if I'm honest with you Rob that that isn't an option for me I'm gonna tournament myself so I so I might have got to find ways around it that I can't solve that. That I can't solve that I that I that I that I th you th you th you that I th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th th th you th thus thus thus that I thus that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I'm that I that I'm that I that I that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that I that I that I that I to that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I th th th th th th th th th th th th th thus thus thus thou the thou the the to thoo- to to to to to to to to to tho- told told to me told to to told that I that I that I that someone so intelligent does tournament himself that much because he's doing such a good brother, both of you.

However, you're sad, actually it's fine to self-torment because someone I respect does. Do you know what, Rob, you've got to fight the battles you're given and I know what I can change. I can't change the fact that every day I torment myself from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep. And when you're crying on your exercise bike having a panic attack, you're thinking, Louis Faroo probably does this, so it's fine. Exactly, exactly. So that's good. If it helps, it helps.

Exactly. But no, I enjoyed that. We went off pieced a little bit. Oh, I think it was really interesting. leading up to Christmas. Exactly. And he wasn't even promoting anything. Joshua. They've all got books, aren't they? Are we done? Keep there. It's the way we got a book out? He didn't mention it. How well have we done to bring a book out in such a crowded market, Josh? Well done to you. Well done to you. And thank you and thank you and to than. And than to the to tha. And to to to to to to to to to to the to you. And their, their, to me, to me, the, to me, to me, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to me, we're, it, it, it, we've, we've, we've to me, it, it's to me, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, we, we've, we, we've, we, we, we, we've, we, we, we've, we, we, we, we, we've the, we they. So, we they. So, we, we the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to me, we've to me, we've to me, we've to be. It's to me, we've got. So, we've got, we've got, we've got, we've got to, we've got to, we've got, we've got. So, we've got. So, we've got. It's, we've got. It's, we've,. Thank you so much for buying the book. It's amazing. Thank you so much. But also I would say as well, though I have looked at the figures and how many people listen to this

on a weekly basis compared to the book sales. And I would say probably about 10% of you bought the book. So well done to see. But the other 90% have a fucking the book. books right? It's Christmas, come on! Buy it for someone, okay? Come on. Come on. No, I'm only joking. Have a good, have a good. Buy it for Stuart Lee. All right, we'll see you on Tuesday.