Parenting Hell with Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe - S04 EP28: Tom Craine

Episode Date: May 6, 2022

S04 EP28: Tom Craine Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the comedian and writer - Tom Craine. Tom's excellent podcast 'My Favourite Takeaway' is available now on all podcast platforms. BIG NEWS.... we're writing a book! ⭐ All the stories we can’t tell on the podcast – in depth.⭐ What it’s like to raise a stiff neck and a loose neck – straight from the horse’s mouth (our parents)⭐ And.. the BIGGEST REQUEST WE’VE EVER HAD FOR THE PODCAST… Hearing from our wives, Rose & Lou. They’ve got a chapter each and YOU can submit your burning questions to them... [e-mail]'s it really like to be a parent? And how come no one ever warned Rob or Josh of the sheer mind-bending, world-altering, sleep-depriving, sick-covering, tear-inducing, snot-wiping, bore-inspiring, 4am-relationship-straining brutality of it all? And if they did, why can't they remember it (or remember anything else, for that matter)?And just when they thought it couldn't get any harder, why didn't anyone warn them about the slices of unmatched euphoric joy and pride that occasionally come piercing through, drenching you in unbridled happiness in much the same way a badly burped baby drenches you in milk-sick?Join Josh and Rob as they share the challenges and madness of their parenting journeys with lashings of empathy and extra helpings of laughs. Filled with all the things they never tell you at antenatal classes, Parenting Hell is a beguiling mixture of humour, rumination and conversation for prospective parents, new parents, old parents and never-to-be parents alike.Find out everything you need to know, including how you could win a pair of tickets to the Parenting Hell LIVE tour & an overnight stay in London here: https://www.bit.ly/ParentingHellBookWe're going on tour!! Fancy seeing the podcast live in some of the best venues in the UK?Of course you do, you're not made of stone! Tickets available now on the dates and at the venues below. We can't wait to see you there...ON SALE NOW 14th April 2023 - Manchester AO Arena19th April 2023 - Nottingham20th April 2023 - Cardiff 21st April 2023 - London (The O2)23rd April 2023 - London (Wembley)28th April 2023 - Birmingham Utilita Arena If you want to get in touch with the show here's how:EMAIL: [e-mail]: @parenting_hellINSTAGRAM: @parentinghellA 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and member terms apply. Hello I'm Rob Beckett and I'm Josh Willickham. Welcome to Parent in Hell the show in which Josh and I discuss what is really like to be a parent which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves and hopefully you feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern-day parenting each week we're chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you the listener with your tips, advice, and of course, tales of parenting woe.

Because let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hill with... Can Jackson say Rob? Rob? Rob? Beckett? Beckett. And Josh? Josh? Whittacom?

Clever boy. Duh. There we go. Hi, Rob and Josh. This is my two-year-old son, Jackson, doing his intro to the sexest, funniest and most relatable comedians. Absolutely love the podcast so much so that I've recommended intro to the sexiest funniest and most relatable comedians. I absolutely love the podcast so much so that I've recommended to everyone I know and I also have a voice note agreement with my friend in France where we share our Crosby's

laws. That and the fact that whenever my husband and I lose our shit, we just calmly refer back to it as a milk tray incident. This podcast has potentially saved our marriage. Can't wait for the book and to come and see you next year in Birmingham, Katie and Jackson in Tamworth. Yes. Jackson is spelled with an X. JAX O N. Yeah. Sounds like a criminal from a future film. Jackson. I vividly remember the first time I heard the first time I heard Miss Jackson by outcast and I thought, this changes everything. Why? This is the greatest song I've ever heard.

I sat in a car waiting for my dad to come out of spa in Bovey Tracy and Devon. I try and keep it relatable mate, all these showbiz stories. I just vividly thought this is this is how music should sound. That was a good album I like that album. I just I don't know for some reason I've got such a vivid memory of it. Yeah but there we go he's a good song but spelled it is a good song is it differently to Jack's on. How are you Josh Widdickham? I'm all right but do do you know what, do you want to hear something wrong? Yeah always. I am slightly struggling psychologically. Okay, and what's the news? Isn't that standard issue? Yeah, sorry. I thought he's going to tell me something new.

You didn't even acknowledge that. Did you? I didn't even understand. Okay. I didn't even understand. Oh, God., you may or may not know, please do watch it. A hypothetical on Dave that I do with James Acucus, we're now doing a spin-off podcast series. Oh, yeah. I saw that. Yeah. thea.

Rob, this is, Rob, today. Yeah. This is, Rob, today. The fifth podcast I've recorded. I am fucked. Don't you do that? How long are the episode? An hour. I'm... Fuck off! I am.

This is the beginning of my fifth hour of podcasting today. What about your football podcast? You still do that? Yeah, but not today. You love it. You of it. If you could see how dead my eyes wait, you wouldn't go, he loves podcasting. You go, that is a man who has nothing left to say ever. Could I just tell you though? Yeah. An anecdote I've got.

Well, I was going to say this because we, this comes from one of our podcast talk about doing too many podcasts. One of our podcasts nearly didn't go on to say this because this comes from one of our podcast, talk about doing too many podcasts. One of our podcast nearly didn't go up, did it? It didn't nearly go on to the internet. And this is the reason why. It was the one when we were announcing our book. So we had to announce the book, so there's all the time, thii. Because obviously there's a press release, all, there's, they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. thi. they. It's. It's. It's. It's. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It's. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. It didn't. the. the. the. the.. the. the... It didn't. It didn't. any of that. No I know it doesn't. They just say oh we can announce a book at 10 a.m. so be good if the podcast is out before then but like but I like I like things to be I know and to be honest Rob everyone's got fucking eight months to buy the book so I don't know what the advantage of 10 a the book a the the the theym. There is is is is is is is is is the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to Michael. The podcast isn't up. The book announcement is at 10 out of the book

announcer. It's hardly like a new lockdown announcement, which is the bookside eight months. You were like proper stressing. Rob. I phone, this is the this is the low bit. Because it was when Michael was stuck on holiday. Yeah I thought I've got a phone him his phone is a phone. So this was a the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. It's is th. It's the the the the the the the the the the the the the book is already like is already like. It's is already like. It's is already like. It's is like. It's is like. It's is like. It's is like. It's is like. It's is like. It's is. It's is. It's is. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's like. It's. It's like. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's like. It's. It's. It's like. It's like. It's like. It's like. It's like. It's like. It's like. It's like. It's. It'sto answer phone. Hang on what time was this? He was in Solution. So is it like American time? So this was 7 a.m. UK time. This annoys me. That's a kind of holiday you have when you don't have fucking kids. You go to St. Lucia because it's only two flights, not four. And you're just there in St. Lucicia. He's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, that. that. that's like, that's like, that. that's like, that's like, that's like. that's like, that's like, that's like, they. that's like, their. their. that's like, their. That's like, their. That's like, their. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. that's. the that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's a. that's a. that's a. that's a kind. that's a kind. that's a kind. that's a kind. that's a kind. that's a kind. that's a kind. that's a kind. that's a kind of a kind of a kind of a kind of a kind of a kind. Absolute disgrace. Do you know what? What we're going to find out in six years like Jedwood or someone like that is that it turn out that

St Lucia was billed back to us all along. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, he recorded one podcast there the whole trip was claimed back. See you in court. I feel like the sex pistols. I'll own Rob Beckett the identity of me. I want only only only only only only that's. I'll that's. I'll the the that's. I'll the their. I'll their. I'll their. I'll their. I'll their their their their. I'll their. I'll their. I'll their the Rob Beckett, the identity of me. I want only to be able to call my kids' names, that's the only reason I don't say my kids' names because Michael are loaned them. So I thought, I've got to get through to him because the podcast isn't up and what can I do? I can't get through to his phone. So do you know what I did? I thought, I wonder if he heedededed he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he thaged. I wanted heed. I th. I th. I thed. I thed. I thed. I thed. I thed. I thed. I thed. I thed. I thed. I thed. I thed. I don't thed. I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't th. I don't thed. I don't thed. I don't the. I don't the. I don't the. the. the. the. the. to to to to to to to to to to to to to the. I don't's tagged himself in his location on Instagram and he had. Oh, you mean he's disgusted him. I went on, wait, I follow him.

But he went through his posts. I didn't go back through two years. It was the most recent post was tagged with the hotel. So I then phoen the hotel. I'm like, could you put me through toimes is? What times is 5 a.m. St. Lucian time? 2 a.m. St. Lucian time. And they were like, we can't put you through it's 2 a.m. I'm like, it's an emergency.

Look, St. Lucia. I don't know if you know, there's a book about parenting out and there's not been many. And that's coming out in eight months. And if you th you th you th you th you th you th you th th thi th th thi thi thi th. thi th. thi thi thi times times times times times times times times times times times is times is times. times. times is times is times is times is times is times out in eight months and if you think that I'm gonna promote a book on a podcast after 10 a.m. you're a different planet buddy. So they wouldn't let you get through obviously because they were a good hotel. It's an emergency. Did they ask you what emergency? No. And I thought, I can't make one off. You should have said, I'm pregnant. I can't get through to my club just so you know. Yeah, your house hasn't burned down, but I am through now. So could you pop that podcast up?

We've got a book to sell, bitch. Wakey, wake up at 5 a.m. solution time. Well I'd rather get woke up at 2 a.m. when you if you get woke up at 5 a.m. you're up for the day if you get woken up at 2 a.m. you can get back to sleep. So I phone up at 5 a yeah exactly I phone up at 5 a.m. Why would you care so much Josh? Because when I get something in my head I think this has got to be done. that. this this this this this this th th th th thin thin that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th. I th. I that that. I the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their to to to to to to to to to to to to their to to to their to to to to to to to to to to to to tooooooooooom. too' tooom. tooom. too. to tooom. to to to to to to their to to their got to be done Or what or what? I don't know Rob I just care I just care about the wrong things No, no, it's good to care but yeah, but you don't mind you'd like a bit of admin you don't got much on In between your podcast records ring St. Lucia about another podcast Jesus Christ what am I doing my life? You're a bit too stressed. I think mate you're a bit too stressed. I think? Oh, you're a too. You're a too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. to too. too. too. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to care. to to to to to. You need to be in St Lucia. Stop bringing mate, get going. What only there? Put me through and then put me in for two weeks. No, a room for one please. No, I'm coming on my own. I'm right in retreating. No, I won't be bringing a fucking microphone.

I'm here to relax. I'm put me in for three months, one room, single occupancy. Oh, this podcast, when we put the book announcement up, all the comments are like, yeah, fine, but where's the podcast back, guys? Because I've got a commute this morning? People are building their lives around this. It's mad. Yeah, all right, well done. You're writing a book. Where the fuck is today's podcast, guys? I do think for a free product, the anger that it was late was unacceptable. It was all unkind. Can we all just relax? Right. We should get on with our guest, Rob. Yes, we should. It's a great guest. Oh, God, I'm tired. What's it? But if you think I'm tired, listen to this man. Never has anyone slept less with three years of a child. Oh God, yeah, I forgot about this is great. Oh, my Tom Crane, if you feel like you're tired

from your kids, listen to this and you'll feel like you've just been reborn. Yeah. He doesn't, he's had no sleep, has he? No. If you think Tom Parry was tired, that was like six months in. This man is three years in. This is Tom Crane. Hello, Tom Crane. Hi Josh, how are you? Good. Michael, the producer gave a warning there before we started recording. Because he's worried that you're too worried about what people think about your relationship

with your kids that you're going to hold back. Right. Okay. So the warning, so, you, you, you, you, you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to c. the thom thom thom thom thom thom thom thom thom thom thom thom thom thom too too to to to to to to to to to too worried about what people think about your relationship with your kids that you're going to hold back. Right, okay. So the warning was basically, I don't need to constantly explain that I love my kids. That's a given, basically. That's a given on this show, Tom. I feel a bit like I've interrupted your little coffee catch up because you two, this is quite interesting for me and the listener that you two are like to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the their to to their their their to be to be to be to be their to me and to me and their their their to me and to me and to me and to me, to me, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their to. I coancust. Ic. I's toeanc. I's constant constant. I'm constant. I'm constantly. toean. I c. their their their their their lot because you're near each other so this is quite a window into what Josh is really like off Mike Tom for us. We went to the zoo on Sunday Rob. Yeah but what about stuff with the kids? When do you be home? It's just a lovely bit of business isn't it?

It's that kind of stuff. All joking part, I would happily go to the zoo with you just for a day. I mean, joking about I would happily I would go-I the the the the the the the the the the th. I would th. I would happily go the the the th. I would happily go the the to th. I would happily go to to the th. I would happily go to to to to to to to to to to to to th. I would happily go to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to time we go to the zoo this is the worst thing? Me and Crane will have the discussion of whether it be nice to go without the kids which is yeah yeah yeah. Yeah yeah. I've sort of gone off London zoo because I did a corporate gig there and died on my ass did you and the only people were laughing with a chimps in the distance and it and it's and it's and it's and it's and it's and it's and it's and it's and it's and it's and it's and it's the the the the the their. their. their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's th. It's th. It's their. It's to to to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their. their. I their. their. I their. I I I I their. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. I's. I's. I's. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. It's. It's. It's. It's burned into me. I can't step foot back in that zoo. Oh brutal. My weird relationship with London Zoo is that the only thing, so Charlie is my eldest, he's three and a half, the only thing he cares about is this is the carousel. He doesn't care about anything else. Yeah. The whole journey is basically just skipping past the animals as quickly as he can to get to his carousel in the middle. So at which point I don't know why we're bothering going to Camden, but he's so in love with this thing.

He's so obsessed with it. It's a completely pointless thing, the zoo, because they don't, it's wasted on them because they don't realize how mad it is that there's a giraffe in London. They don't understand. They don't understand they don't understand they don't understand they don't understand they don't understand that that that they don't understand that that that that that they don't understand that that their their their they don't understand. that th. th. th. th. thin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They don't understand. Yeah. th. their don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't their their their tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their. their. th. th. th. their. th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo's their. It's the happening. It's more mental that it's in London because I imagine, you know, when you normally are zoos in a big bit of land in the countryside it was normally like some rich bloke's estate that then turn into a zoo. But the thought of just trying to get a giraffe out of a lorry and trying to find anywhere to park near Regents Park is absurd. So walking it through Camden. Pass the market, trying to go down to their nothing worth buying in there, mate.

Don't bother going in there trying to get it. No, I completely agree. So when we went on Saturday, the only thing we managed to see me, my girlfriend and our child, we saw one pelican, we had lunch in the, um, had like lunch in the cafeteria. They served burgers and fish and chips. I don't don't know really that feels a bit weird and then we also went into the butterfly house you think it should be a vegetarian the I do feel that yeah but I went to the London Aquarium and they have a fish and chip shop at the end I don't it feels weird is it not? It's a bit weird like you can't you can't like pick one out you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you the th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th th th th th th th th th th th th like th like th th like thi thi thi th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th that thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi to to to to thi thi thi th't work like that. But the fact this thing is at the end does feel off.

I was thinking as well, there must be people that went to Camden and did drugs oblivious that there's a zoo around the corner and might have stumbled into it on a mad one. You can see the giraffe's looks over the wall like you. Josh knows about this. One of the things with my boy Charlie is that he doesn't want to walk anywhere which is like really stressful. I'm sorry Tom to interrupt so you've got one boy Charlie is that right? So I'll explain I have two children. I have a little boy called Pip who's just turned one this weekend and an old old to to to to to to to to to the old to the old the old to the the to the the the the to the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. t. try try try try try try try tie tie tie tie tie tie tie. tie. tie. tie. tie. tie. tie. tie. tie. toy toy toy t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t t. t. t t t t t t t t t. t. tol tol tol tol. tole tole. tole. tole. tole. tole. tole. tole. tole. tole. tole. tole. tole. tole. tole. tole. tired. So I spend my entire life carrying him around. So at London Zoo it's the same. Like I was carrying him as you'll know John. I was carrying him all the way around the zoo. Like everywhere I have to carry him. How old is it? I was always, he's three and a half. You know the parent you saw when it's always one parent you saw when it's the parent who's like pushing a pram and carrying the child. It's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's always there's always always always always always always there's there's there's there's there's the the the there's the there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their they. they. It's they. It's always always always always always always always the the the the the the the the the they. It's they. It's they. It's they. It's time. It's an empty pram. I'll say when we're only getting the pram.

That's what it is with Charlie. So that's the only frustration of going out to the zoo and stuff is I have to carry him everywhere. So what happens if you put him, I get when there's no pram, but if you've got a pram, why don't you just get using the scooter thing he goes around on, but that just means I end up carrying the scooter and him. Try two kids, two scooters carrying both during lockdown. I did that across a park and I was slivied. I was so hot and tired and everything was so heavy. Do you have the thing where you make them promise beforehand that that definitely won't happen. Each time I'm like, okay, you, you, you,to take the scooter, just to be clear, Charlie, you will be on the scooter there and back. And it's like, yeah, of course I will be, looking dead in the eye, like he actually respects me.

And then, uh, then, then, okay, it's like halfway to the park. Have you considered pushing on the scoot? Can't, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, the, the, the, the, to, the, to, the, the, to, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. the, th. th. tha, tha, tha, tha, to, they.a, the, the, they.a, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the scooter and then push the scooter. I get lower back problems. Oh, right. I do get lower back problems. That's probably from carrying your fucking kid around the zoo. You were near me complaining about my back. That's that. Because your totally, what, how to tall you? 6, 2? 6, 2? Yeah.

So, yeah. .. to, I', I. the. bit of the scoot and you could pull him along? I'm going to say it. I'm not going to throw these things around with many of our guests but I think Tom's lower back problems are partly psychosomatic Rob. And the reason I'm saying that is his girlfriend told me problems for a pram when trying it from one side of John Lewis. That is true. I did. It hurt.

I felt a win. Which John Lewis, the blue wall is massive as far as the walk? It was the one near Oxford Circus. I did one full lap and it hurt. It did hurt. It's the flagship store to be back. But yeah, but that is a point of frustration. My oldest doesn't walk at all, and then my youngest loves walking and stuff. So when it was the first lockdown,

and she was only two, the youngest, she'd get out, she'd get boogie, when she was allowed for an hour walking around with the pram, the oldest who was four, would not get out of the pram at all years younger because she was bored and walk a bit. So it's just different kids. Okay, yeah. I think that's I do think that's right because our younger boy already he's like he's only just turned a year but he's desperately going around on this sort of like trundlethis plastic toy car he sits in in the living room. He's being physically dominated by one year old. He completely is. Yeah, what that's not a lie at all. So there's this plastic car that Charlie sits in and pretends to drive around and then pit will come in and

basically pull him out of it and then sit in it me! Pips... No, it's not. Pip is sure for Philip, but he's not a Philip, he's a Pip, that's what we call him. But he is, yeah, really, really physical, kind of, and already, you can see the difference, how quickly these things, sort of like, their personality comes out so early. Are you worried he's going to be bullying, Charlie within years. I don't think he'll be bullying but I think he'll be like the heavy he'll be the sort of the tough one I think in school that looks after his brother is two years older than him. I think that's going to be it. His brother is 11th calling on his brother is in a year right. Yeah my brother who's two

years earlier younger he's this sort you out but it's amazing how quickly these things come out. Now I feel like we should discuss sleeping because that's kind of a big deal in your life or isn't as the case might be. How bad is Charlie as a sleep or has he been? I don't think we've... I think I've had two good night sleep, three good night sleep in three and a half years. I think that is about right. Is it including going away, working away from th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th good night sleep in three and a half years. I think that is about right. Is that including, not including going away, working away from home? And I've discounted the couple of times we've been away and yeah, we've, you know, yeah, take that as a given. But actually that's annoyingly, isn't take as a given, because I've got into such a rhythm of waking up five or six times in a night that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that that, that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and thi, and thi, and I thi, and I've thi, and I've thi, and I've thi, and I've thi, and I's thi, and I's thi, and I's thi, and I's thi, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I thi, and I thi, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's, and I's thi, and I's thi, and I'm thi, and I'm thi's thi's thin, thin, thiiiiiiiiiii's thiiiii's thiii's thii's thi's thi. thi. And I'm thi in a night that even when we stay in a hotel together I wake up five or six times in a night because my mind is now. Oh no. So it's really bad. Yeah. So what's this because he's three or three, was he three and a half now? So what's the situation currently? What's the situation currently? So occasionally we'll get two or three days or good sleep? Three, something like that, but that never coincides with the younger brother sleeping well as well.

That's another point we'll come to. It's younger brother isn't sleeping particularly well either. But Charlie will for two months, three month periods have really bad sleeping, where he'll be up maybe four times in a night. You then add the brother, who'll also be up seven or eight times in a night across them. Jesus. At which point I would say, it's not a night of sleep anymore. It's not what is that. I don't know what that is.

I mean, I'm having like 15-minute chunks at best. I'm not going into deep sleep and then I'm hearing that awful, you know that white noise at some noise that comes on on the monitor before you hear the crying, it's a, sort of eerie wind noise and you know something's going to happen. Either way it's woken me up, whether it spirals or it's nothing. It's done the job, I'm up, well done, whatever, you rolled over, or you're about to cry. Either way, you've ruined that, what could have been 40 minutes of sleep. So you see, boys, and I wake there, and I'm going,

what's this going to be? Is it gonna be the usual? And of course, it normally is the usual, which means I go in to see Charlie. Charlie doesn't want to see me. So me going in and makes a situation worse. He gets quite loud and then he wakes his brother, Pip, who's upset. So he's going as well. Now they're both going in tandem. So Claire will come in and try and calm down Charlie. I'll have to go and do Pitt and just the whole thing's an absolute mayhem. And this has got

merry-go-round of one waking up the other, round and round and round and around again. Now he's always had problems like this from the very beginning, like when he was a baby, he was not really saying he had like allergies and stuff. He always had problems like this growing up. I think it's sort of like basing things when he was a young baby, but I can't remember. I think I can remember the nights when I have good nights. I've had a good night's sleep. So what would consist of good night sleep? That is a yeah, that is quite bad. What's a good night sleep then? Just like, if he's had a good one, what would those two or three nights consist of? So, okay, so for me, a good night sleep now, if Claire and I would turn to each other in the morning and say, oh, that was good, if, let's say we went to bed at 10, we woke up at midnight, then we woke up at 2, and then we woke up at two and then we woke up at four.

If we woke up three, and maybe one of the times, four times, three times, we would react like we'd won the World Cup in the morning. Like it would be unbelievable celebrations. Even now. Yeah, so three wake-ups would be a cause for, I can't believe what an incredible night that was. Like, yeah, so that would be proper joy. What now? Or back when they were little? No, now, still now.

Now? Ooh. Still now, yeah. Yeah. I know, I know. But Charlie's always had weird things. There was a long period for about five months when he was about one and a half-fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff. that, that, that, that, that, that, that, I know. But Charlie's always had weird things. Like, there was a long period for about five months when he was about one and a half where I could only get him to sleep

by singing under pressure by Queen. So. So he must have been about two, because he was saying the words. He was just basically saying under pressure. So I'd have to sing this song under pressure Looking down and me rubbing his back slowly Would you do the bass bit because the bass bit's the most psycholic? He does bowie and Freddie Mercury

All the parts but he's always had this would you do the base bit's the most psycholic on on your lips for a bit of banter. But there's also things like we've always had to, I remember when he was like, he really got obsessed with his football coach, he's called Coach Jason, got really obsessed with this guy called Coach Jason. And another way we'd have to get him to sleep was to reassure him that coach Jason was also sleeping. So that happened for quite a while, so long conversations before bed. I'm blessed him.

Just to let you know that coach Jason is also asleep now. He's tucking himself into bed. Like, Coach Jason is like in his late 30s. This was like seven o'clock at night. And I'm trying to convince Charlie that this football football football football football football football football football football football football football football football football football football football football is getting into bed. But all these weird things he'd have, it's very, very sweet. It's just a part of it is. He's got an unusual child. He's, you know, it's just the way he is. But the sleep is still just terrible, yeah. This is obviously, it's quite extreme. I'd say your version of a good night, it's sort of like you'd have sort of early doors of sleeping. So if you, like, if you had you had you had you had you had you had you had you had you had you had you had to have to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to to to to to to sleep. the the their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the the the to the the to the to the to be. to to the to the to their. to their. their. their. the toried to speak to a sleep consultant or something to see what you can do. Yeah, so we actually had a sleep consultant over last night actually. We thought we've got to do something about this. And yeah. So we did have someone over last night to try and help. But it's that try to change their relationship with feeding and like Pitt for himself he wakes up during the

night and thinks he wants milk on a number of occasions probably doesn't so try to help change that but um I still sort of clingy on to the idea that the younger one is a good sleep but I can't I can't Josh always point you always say to me Josh that I constantly have to say is going to be all right it is it is it is what it is and you'll say to me it's all right is it what it is does it have to be what it is but I would say for me not to have a breakdown it has to be okay I have to say yeah it's going to be okay what you don't know what you expect me to go I can't just go oh yeah it's a disaster it's never gonna resolve itself I understand I have to have some kind of thick person's hope that it's going to be all right. Basically. I never realized how bad that was.

I knew, like, you know, Josh mentioned in the podcast, Tom's child doesn't sleep, doesn't sleep as well and stuff, but I didn't realize it was still now up three or four times a lot. So a bad night is basically up every hour. Yes, it would be th. that's, like, like, like, like, like, like, th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I've th. I's, I's, I's, I bad. I bad bad bad bad. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I's, I's, I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm not tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. I'm not th. th. th. th. th. th. th th th th th tha that's about, that's about right. And sometimes a number of times in the hour, but then there'll be a portion later in the night for maybe three or four o'clock you might get a bigger watch. So, um, yeah. Oh, so consolidate his wake-up's into one easy-ex. Exactly, yeah. One, one mega. That's what you want.

A good omnibus. Can we do all all all all all all all all all all all all all these wake-ups in the first two hours? Let's get them all over with. Do six at the start and then we can sleep through it. Well, that's a dream, but it's that is few and sort of few and far between. But it's been, the extent that we've gone to to try and stop him from waking is ridiculous. We went on a family holiday to Norfolk last year and Charlie was sleeping in the room next to the toilet. And so to make sure that we didn't wake him up by using the toilet during the night, we came to the decision, Claire and I, to urinate in a bucket throughout the night by our bed. So that's like we just thought, well, that's the only option and otherwise he'll be up constantly. So that is what we did. That's what we did.

So you must have tried everything. What about the rub on the nose? People used to say we got to is rub on the nose. Rub him on the nose. Imagine if you haven't tried that and then need that rub on the nose constantly. This is the way it works. He forms attachments to whatever you do. So that's the problem with trying things that he'll come too relying on. This why I ended up singing under pressure for six months because that's what he needed.

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backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit Amex. the thing is you're so chirpy about it. But I find... The thing is you're so chirpy about it. But I find... It is what it is,, there's no other way. You've got to let the man of hope. Don't talk him out of chirping. It doesn't go, oh, what you should be more miserable about this. There have been times where Josh has been visibly annoyed at me for not being more annoyed. So when you've looked quite, openly, when me and you were going, you know, we write again. Sometimes you're going, it's all right, you can't, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's to, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's to, it's, it's to, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's. to, it's. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to to to to to to to to, to, to, to to me, to, to me, to, to, to me, I don't you know we write again sometimes you're going it's all right Tom you can it's okay it's okay for it not to be okay. I'm looking for some kind of fight. I'm looking for exactly but I just I need to tell myself it's going to be okay because that's just what else what else is there? How would you be in this situation, Rob? I mean, like I say, I think I'm a bit more Tom's side of things of trying to be positive

and stuff and just try and different techniques, but you hope they're growing out of it and three and a half is still fairly young, so you hope that you might turn a corner or something. And do you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean? That is the extreme, the extreme a relationship th th th th thomomomom that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that I that I that I that I'm that I'm that I'm that I that I that I'm that I that I'm that I'm that I'm that I'm that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th th th th th th th thomomom, I'm thom, I'm thom, I'm a thom, I'm a thom, I'm a thom, I'm a thom, I'm a thom, I'm a thom, I'm a thom, I'm a thom, I'm a thom, I'm a thom, I gone in the last three and a half years, do you know what I mean? That is the extreme, the extreme relationship could be put under. Or the argument is they're too tired to have an affair. Imagine that I'm having an affair with anyone that don't touch me, I'm here to sleep. You can't sneak out in the night because they're going to wake up and see that there's an empty space in the bed about seven to eight times during the night. So yeah, I think I think I think it's a it's uh yeah you're doing it to work itself. Exactly. I mean you know like he's an interesting chat

my little lad he's kind of a real, it's the same as me, he's a real worrier, so he, something will concern him and he'll obsess on it and he'll bring it up months later. So like, let's see he's watching a cartoon and someone has a worried face on it, he'll want to talk to me about it, often like two in the morning, three in the morning, which is, which he's very sort of empathetic, very sweet child, but he's also a warrior. partly where the sleep comes from because he worries about things in the night and blah by by by and wants to wake up and chat about things. If he knew what was going on globally at the moment, if he understood the implications of the current international news, he'd been serious trouble. Say goodbye to my 36 minutes of sleep, yeah, exactly. Isn't there a piece of graffiti that worries him so you have to take a different route to nursery. Yeah, so this is mad. This is on our road, there's a piece of sort of like, it looks,

it's got a brightly coloured spray-paked graffiti, this face, which he calls the scary eyes, which is on someone's garage. It's quite a cool piece of art, I guess. But he's so so worried about going past this piece of graffiti that we can't walk up that road anymore despite the fact that is by far the quickest way to get to the main road and to get to nursery. So it's said we have to go the most scenic route around East London you could possibly imagine it's mad. Which isn't that scenic in East London? No it's not that scenic. Yeah, quite. But and we even have to drive down different route. We can't go that way to the main road if he's in the car. We have to go different routes. What would he just get really upset then and cry and things? Yeah, he's so he's so he's sometimes is willing to sort of. He's willing. He's sometimes. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the illy eyes, silly eyes, all this sort of thing as he's going past, which kind of makes him like smelly feet or this sort of nonsense.

But most of the time he doesn't really want to go past it. Other times who want to sort of confront it, it's kind of interesting how the mind of a child work. Fear is a strange thing. There's part of the their their their their thememememememem, th and th and th and th and th, th, th, th, th, th, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, like, like, thinks, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, makes makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, makes, th, makes, th, th, makes, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, thinks, their, their, their, their, their, they. their, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, makes, makes they. It's they. So occasionally people are like, oh can we go and see it? There's a lot going on with him there and which I also kind of admire because he is scared of that and sometimes he does want to go and see it. But it doesn't make our life unbelievably easy. Because we're having to take 52 left turns to get to where we can. I can see the end of our road, I can see the main road from our road. We just need to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to to to to to to to to to to the to to to the to the to the the to to the the the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to the to the to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the end of our road, I can see the main road from our road. We just need to drive to it, but instead we have to go past every other house with three mile radius. Last Christmas you and Rose kindly bought us a, because I watched that documentary on Baskillat

and you bought us a, obviously a print, not an original of a piece of basket up which Charlie has now made me stick a post-it note over with a smiley face over. So I've had to draw a smiley face on a post-it note and stick it on this scary face, which is on the piece of art. So it's obviously, he often faces and things like a thinks of a child psychologist I imagine,

because if he's like that in the day, then it's obviously that's what's worrying him at night, isn't it, keeping him up? It does feel like that must be the same thing as the sleep, right? Yeah, I think there's probably links there, bit sad or whatever he will be very aware of it and want to go and tell someone to help or he's sort of very in tune with how people are reacting and what face their show he will be like why is that man why, why is that man, whatever. So why don't you just look really sad when you have to drive all around the hour? Don't you just look really sad about the sleep things? Oh Oh. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to their to their to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their their their to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their. Just. Just. their their their their their their their the. try. tell tell their tell the the tell the the tell the the to the to the to to the to to've been telling you to be more sad about the sleep thing,

that's the solution. Oh, there we go. Are you empathetic? Oh, you scared? Pick a fucking lane kid. Daddy's done, it's two quid a quid a litre to let's go the quil. Let's go the the answer. So did you, I mean it's weird when I ask a question because I kind of almost, I almost know the answer. But well I'll just ask this question.

How big is your car Tom? Is that the fucking idea? I tap you on the shoulder with it, you can tell me. So what's your question? No wonder you got a lot of back pain? Jesus. Um, no, I'm just going to, I was basically going to ask a question that you you you to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the the the to the the to the the the to the the to the to to the to to the the the the to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tha.a. Ia. Iaqqqqqqqqaqaqaqaqaqaqaqaqaqaqa.aqaqaqa.aqaqa.aqa.a. Ia. Ia. Ia. Ia. I'm. to, I was basically going to ask a question that led to you telling Rob that you wouldn't see a sleep therapist. No, it was the feed, no, you went to see a feeding person after two weeks and you're so tired that you ended up, well you, you tell Rob because it's weird when you're interviewing someone you know the answer. Well this was a bad day anyway. Sounds like Bordy Boris Johnson, a press conference with his appointed reporters.

Yeah, lovely. Laurel Coonsburg, more like Laura Conservative Party, am I right? Is that something you do in last week? Is that good? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, fucking B. Blu-Bloos that we don't like, British Broadcasting Conservatives, that's what I call them. More like Sky Puh, more rather than Sky News, right guys? That's a... Yeah. Sorry Tom, can I.

Now I enjoyed it, we're making me think and laugh. I like it. It's kind of an exciting place to make. What are you thinking? Is this funny or not? I can't wait to stop th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin. thin. thin. thin' than't than't than't than't than't than't to to to to to the than't to to to to to to to to to to to to to be more, to to be more, to to to to me to to to to be more, to be more, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the than. than. than. than. than. than. than't than't than't than. than. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I can't wait for him to stop doing this. So yeah, I know what you're talking about. So that was a sort of weird week in general. Basically Charlie had these sort of milk allergy sort of things. We thought he might have milk allergy.

He wasn't. My daughter had milk allergy. She had to go on to formula that was lactose-free for a bit. And now we did milk ladder and she's all over the chocolate now. Yes. Yeah, yeah, no, there's no same here. So Charlie can have everything now, but there was a point where they were trying to work out what's going on. We'd been to UCLH that day for a consultation and we'd been to CLAIRD.

that day for a consultation and we've been to to be to be to be to be to be to be the waiting room for ages and all the other parents left. It'd been like three hours and there was a Wendy house in there. And I said to Claire, I was so bored. Do we want to get in the Wendy house? So Claire got in the Wendy house. It was like there was no other adults in there, at which point of course the doctor came out and called our name. So there was Claire sticking out of the wend. The reason I remember that. The reason. the reason. the reason. the the the the to to to to to to the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. was first born. I wasn't really, I don't know what it, what, how you describe it. I just don't think I quite understood what a huge change it was, to be perfectly honest. Yeah. And I remember you saying to me when I, when my daughter was a few weeks old, no, it must have been a few months old because we had the bouncer, you know the classic bouncer. And at that time, Claire was pregnant and you said, do you just like pop her in the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th and th and th and th and th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I was th. I was th. I was tho. I thus. I was thus. I was tho. I was thuu. I was thu. I was thuu. I thu. I thuu. I thuuuu. I thuuuuuu. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was t. I was just t. I was just just too. I was just just too. I was just too. I was too. It was too. I was too. I was too. I was too. I was th. And at that time, Claire was pregnant and you said, so do you just like pop her in the bouncer and then you can like just get up with work at the table. And I thought, oh my God, oh my God, this is going to be a huge shock to this. Your view

that they do eight hours in the bouncer in the day while you were tapping away a table. Occasionally, yeah, basically doing a 9 to 5 in there. No, I think I just hadn't really appreciated what it was. And I remember that, like, on the day that he was born, it was great. It was wonderful, etc. But I also felt a real sort of... That etc. was doing a lot of leg work in that sentence. But you know that was a classic, you... Did you actually th you th you th you th you th you th you th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that, I just just just just just th. I just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I that that that that that that that that that that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I that. I just that. I just lot of legwork in that sentence. That was a classic, did you actually enjoy it? Was it a very horrible anxious time? But you have to go, it was great obviously because that's what's expected, etc.

The rocking back and forth, the crying inside, the worried look on your face, the helplessness, etc. It's a great day. As long as he's a good sleeper, then it's going to be fine. No, but I do remember that feeling of just this life being there and it being like, oh, this is this, this is it now. As in it's, it's kind of, everything has changed in the way that I hadn't quite anticipated, I think, and I felt sort of almost, it was like, it reminded me of like me of like, that physical feeling of, like, like a feeling of, like, a feeling of, like, the tel, thi thi. told me, like, I don't feel completely control of this. I may, you know, maybe, yeah, lots of other people. I think, in a weird way, I was given some. I was given some advice. I thi. th, I was, I was, I was th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, a, a, a, a. Like, a, a, a, a, a, a feeling, a. Like, a feeling, a feeling, like, like, a feeling, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, first hold your child when it's first born, you'll never feel a feeling of elation and it'll be like your, you'll, this is what, and I kind of wish I hadn't been told that because I don't think that is necessarily the case for people. Like, I, I love my children so much. They are, I know, I know that's what we've talked about. But they are, but they are, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I they are, I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th. I th th th thi that I wish I wish I that I that I wish I that I wish I wish I that I wish I that I that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. thi. that's that's that's thi. thi up, they're, I'm very lucky to have them and I think they're wonderful. I really do.

But I wish I hadn't been told, I wish I hadn't been told beforehand that I would, on that moment, on that day, hold him and just feel nothing other than, oh, great, you know, angels and all this sort of stuff singing. But I actually wasn't really what happened. I actually felt a thi. thgian, thgian, thion, thuuuuu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, that's, I'm that's, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm tho, I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I wish I was thus, I was thus, I was thus, I was than, I was than, I was than, I was th. I was th. I was than, I was than, I was than, I was than, I was than't than't than't than't than't than't than't thatean't thatean't thatean't thatean't wish I was just wa thatean't thateanan't woan't thanthat's a really bad thing to tell people because it feels like, it feels like there's a pressure on it for you to live this moment in the way other people have lived it. Which I just think is very unhealthy. You feel guilt if you don't feel happy like you're bad and you don't care but it's

but it's not true. I thii. I that's just fucking I that's just fucking I that's just fucking I that's just worried. I that's just worried. I that's just worried. I that's just fucking I that's just worried. I that's just worried. I that's just worried. I that's just fucking. I that's just fucking. I that's just fucking that's just fucking worried. I that's just fucking worried. I that's just fucking worried. I that's just fucking worried. I was. I that's. I was. I that's that's that's that's just fucking that's worried. I's just worried. I's just worried. I's just worried. I's just worried. I's just worried. I's just worried. I's just worried. I's just. I's just. I's just. I's just. I that's. I that's. I that's. I that's. I that's. I that's just. I that's just. I that's just. I that's just. I that's just fucking worried. I that's just fucking worried. I that's just, I that's just fucking worried. I that's like. I that's just. I that's just fucking worried. I that's just fucking worried. I that's just. I that's just. I that's exactly it. Anyway, um, to wrap it. It felt like an elephant had landed on my to-do list. Like I'd be fucking wait. Boom. Fuck. Everything. I've got so much to do now. I remember. That moment when I thought, fuck, this doesn't end. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, everything else I've had in my life before that is a lot of work or is stressful or it is difficult I've gone well at least in three months that will have ended or at least Edinburgh is 26 days yeah but this is it yeah yeah anyway but I love my kids you don't have to say kids. You don't have to say that Josh. I think Josh after that line. I do think Josh Hats were after that line, to be fair, Tom.

I remember two weeks in, coming back and I'd been at work during the last leg or something. I got back at like 6 p.m. And it was like straight in and I had no sleep and I was feeling very, very low. And I remember my mother-in-law saying to me, the thing you've got to remember is you're only ever as happy as your unhappiest child. And I thought, why are you saying this to me at this moment? This is not what I need at this moment. Why didn't you say that to be 10 months ago? Anyway, both children are very happy and so am I now.

You and Rose had, like, admittedly you'd admit, had found the first sort of four months kind of quite stressful or whatever, or whatever it was, Charlie was born, like five months in or whatever, and we went to your house and we'd had dinner with you, and you and Rose told us for about half an hour how stressful it all was and like it never ends the sleep terrible etc etc like the longest tirade of don't do this just don't do this and ironically they underplayed it for you well it ended with us going well actually we've got some news and that's when we told

you that we were a child oh no but it was 45 minutes of the most. Basically, some of the descriptions were horrific of what we were, and everyone was like, oh, okay, okay, okay. Anyway, just to wrap up this story, the point is I was quite stressed at the beginning, I went to see this rather posh sleep consultant and midway through the appointment with her, she noticed I was wearing two left shoes. That's what the story is. I was wearing two Mike Cortez's left feet on my, uh, left feet. And I have never been so embarrassed as she gave me a look at the reason your child is not feeding is because you're an idiot. You're an idiot. That's why.

My moments I remember for my first year, yeah, the two left shoes and also being at your London wedding, Josh with Charlie, now remembering that Charlie's a warrior, walking up to a little park near it and seeing a pigeon, saying to Charlie, oh look at the pigeon, should we go and see that pigeon, and walking across and the pigeon was lacking its head, its head had come off. There was literally no sign of the head. And, but that, that is, that sticks to me as a really sort of a memory of the head. But that sticks to me as a really sort of early memory of sort of bad parenting basically. And trying to push a child away.

That would not be bad if you decapitated the pigeon yourself and lay it there to surprise him. That would be bad parenting. Yeah. And so this is a lesson about life and death. Yeah, yeah. Do you, um, you're a very positive person. I actually have never really probably asked you about this. But like, I don't see you and Claire arguing much even in these heightened kind of emotional situations. Is that, because you, you've got to be positive in all situations, right? Yeah. So, I mean, obviously you have points where you're stressed and you're maybe sort of shorter than you should be or what happens to be. But it's all, we resolve things very, very quickly and we don't

sort of, we don't let things linger or hangar. So we, we don't really so nothing really spark never really spires into an argument at all I mean it'll be lying to say that there aren't moments where you're both you're exhausted it's four in the morning you're not both to light him going I know we're both awake but at least we can snob we're not like that it's kind of weird sort of weird sort with Yeah, it's kind of weird sort of, it's, it's, it's, it's sort of, it's sort of, it's sort of, it's sort of, it's sort of, it's sort of, it's sort of, it's sort of, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, th, th, th, th, th, th th th th th th, th, it, th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th, th th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thithought of me telling that to Lou, look, we're up anyway, fancy a bit. Do email in, if you're the kind of couple who when woken by a child in the middle of the night takes the opportunity to have sex because I don't believe that. After you settled the baby back to sleep, not, yeah, of course, to the chorus of them crying. I don't want that email. I think you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you th you th you th you th you th you th you thage you thage you thi thi thi th don't want that email. I think you should report yourself to the police. My eldest was a bit of a worryer sometimes. I wouldn't say to that extreme of the new route to school, but there's certain things, but like she's got a little bit better with

a younger sister come, she's a little bit more like yours, a little bit more like a throw in to things. And actually it brings the older one out of a little, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, a, a, is a little, a little, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, is, a, a, a, a, a, is, a bit, is a bit, th.a, th.a, t.a, t.a, ta, ta.a.a.a.a.a.a, t.a, t.a, t.a, a, a bit, a, a, a herself in and to things and actually it brings the older one out of their shell a little bit because they and also you think that I was quite anxious for our first born I think they do pick up on it a little bit but the second one obviously you're more relaxed for they sometimes bring it out of the shell because if she goes well I'll do that, then the older one goes well I should be able to do that because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because they they they they... they. they. they. they. they. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was I was I was I was, I was, I was, I was, I was I was I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was. th. th. th. I was, I was, I was. I was, I was, I was, I was, I was I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was th. I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, I was quite, little bit, if you know what I mean. No, I think that's definitely the case. And I think that's true about the experience of not being less anxious second time round. I mean, this last year has gone, I can't believe that our one year old is now one. I can't believe that it's gone so fast. But the experience of an important time is it?

From the age of like one to three, those two years are very important aren't they with socializing and stuff and groups and play. Yeah, so a lot of that wasn't there and then you had sort of periods where you remember, you had to self-isolate for like 14 days. I th I they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they have they have they have they have they have they have they have they have they have they have th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I tho. I that, I that, I tho. I tho. I tho. I tho. I tho. I tho. I thi, I thi, I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th. I th. I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was th. I was th. I th. I th. I that, I that, I that, I than. I than. I thananan. I thananan. I tha. I thoooooooooooo. That's that, that, these sort of things and those are quite a strange experiences early on but but I do I do think the second time around it goes much quicker because I remember you count down the days oh well if we can make it to three weeks all this sort of stuff when we get to a month things to be much easier all that sort of sts all that sort of stuff? Do you do have your kids occasionally they'll sort of, if they're annoyed at you, they'll, it's that, well, we're not friends anymore, I don't love you. There's all this sort of stuff they chuck in. He was saying,

the other, a bedtime, like, a week ago, he wanted Claire to do it, but Claire was upstairs with Pip and I was doing his bedtime. He was saying, no, Daddy, you know, I don't want to want you here. I'm going to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put to put their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their their, their their their their their their their their their their to say. th. th. tie. tie. tie. tie. tie. th. th. th. th. their their their their their their their their the, I'm going to put you in the neighbours' garden. Which is quite, I don't know if that's, at least I'll be close by, I suppose that's quite sweet. Okay, you should go drive past the graffiti too completely again, get back in his head. Already that testing, that pushing, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, I think, I'm all right with it. Do you know the problem with it now is when when when when when when when when when is. So it's mainly trying to keep a straight face. Because I know it's very serious for her, but for me I'm like, she sounds like such an idiot

that I do find it quite funny because it's like, it's so, she's, I don't know, it's something about the dramatic it is, the slightly weird phrasing, the fact she's decided that that's the thing that's going to hurt me. It's difficult for me to keep a straight face in that situation. Does that make me a monster? No, I think it's quite, I think you have to accept because they're not a friend anymore and I go, okay, yeah, friends come and go, sometimes you've got friends, sometimes you haven't, we know ones, and to make, and make, and make, and make, and make, and make, and make, and make, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is a the the the the the they........... does, does, does, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a straight, is a, is a straight, is a straight, make, make, make, make, make, make, make, the th. Does, th. Does, th. tha. tha. tha. th sometimes struggles to sleep and gets a bit like oh I'm having I'll have bad dreams I'll have nightmares and all that kind of stuff but I used to go a bit like a bit like a bit what like you know really sort of like a woke parent and like let's talk about saying for ages it makes it worse I just need to get on with it and do it but I think sometimes you to try to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I thn. thn. thn. I thn. I thin. I'm thin. I'm just thrc. I'm just thrown. I'm just thrown. I'm just thrown. I'm just thrown. I'm just thrown. I'm just thrown. ages, it makes it worse. I just need to get on with it and do it. So I think sometimes you can get yourself in a worse position by talking about it too much and allowing it to fester and you sort of legitimize it

then and that's what we found. And then, you know, recently she said, oh, I can't go to see, because my brain's telling me this, and my brain, my brain, my brain, their their their their their their.. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi, their their, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their their their their, their, their, their, their, their their, their their their their, their their their, their their their, their, their, their their, their, their, their, th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thea. thea. thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thi. it it's just being silly it's stupid ignore it and then and try and go down that route rather than go in try to find like the root cause of why there's that voice you know I mean that's why in to me otherwise you turn into me constantly analyzing every moment for shame or worry for the whole life well that well that's happening just like don't you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you don you don you don't you don't you don't you don't you don't you to to to to to to to to to to to to to try try try try try try try try and try try try try and try and try and try and try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try and try and try and try and try and try and try and to try and to to to to to to try and try and try and try and try and try and try, I was going, but what, why do you feel like that? What happened? Just like, don't, you stop certainly for an answer and just sort of try and sort of shut it down or distract from it, like, when I was talking before my daughter said, I don't care about you and wouldn't hold my hand, and then I was like oh okay yeah fine. Let's do that if you want and it actually had more impact than talking about it.

You know yeah I love I love it when kids come up with those sort of those loophole things. We were doing yeah Charlie's potty training a little while ago and we did one those sort of things where you get if you do it five ti stickers where you get five stickers. If you get the the the the the the the the the the the the their... their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thinks. th. their. I the the th. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I th. I th. I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. tell. t. I'm. tell. I'm. t. tell. tell. I'm. I'm. t. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm five times, you get five stickers and you'll get a magazine from the shop, the top of the road. We put his poster on the wall and every time he got five stickers you'd get a magazine basically. And then I noticed he was breaking up one single toilet stop into a number as a way of getting quite a few stars. So he's causing himself some kind of long-term long-term like piles or something by doing that kind of...

No, no, he'd go and do a bit of a wee or whatever happens to me and then he come to a start and he goes, yeah, and then he'd go and finish from the wee and he come back and second start. The bladder control of a three-year-old though is incredible. It is incredible. It is, yeah, it's amazing. When does he start school, Tom? Is it this September or next September? He starts in September, this September, yeah, yeah. Is he excited about that or is he a bit worried? How'd you feel about him going to big school? He's feeling okay, he's feeling okay, he's feeling okay, he's feeling okay, he's quite okay, anus' the try and he's very kind of quite eccentric with you Josh. He's got an unusual sort of child. He's very sort of independent and always wanted to sort of play his own game stuff like this.

But it's really getting a good friendship group now as well, which is lovely. So it's kind of because you worry, oh, will he? Maybe he'll be on his own a little bit. But it's really not proving to be that case. And I think it's providing him, he's he he he he friends are going there and, yeah, he's excited about it. Yeah, he is. I'm excited about it as well. I'm quite, I'm very, I'm very nervous about my daughter going to school. Yeah, yeah, I find it very stressful the thought of like that first day or the drop-off.

I think it's probably much bigger in my head than it is in hers. I mean as we said. They'll totally feed off you. Me and Lou had this conversation of just like, just don't just don't keep talking, don't change, just be very calm and let it just let it go. Don't, because you can be like, oh, let me set your uniform, ugh. And they feed off your stress. Yeah. can do is try and be calm within yourself. I've barely mentioned it to her but that's because I'm trying to bury it down deep inside my own worries. I've got

I've got, okay you've gone too far the other way. I've gone too far the other way. So how calm do you mean do you mean do you mean sort of like do you mean? Do you mean barely giving them a nod at the school gate when you're not? No, no, not to not at to not at they. No, not at they. No, not at they. No, not at they. No, not at they. No, not at they. No, not at they. No, not at they. No, not at they. they. they. they. th. th. th. they. they. th. th. th. to go, to go, to go, you're to go. to go. th. th. th. You're going. You're going. You're going. You're going. You're going. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to to to to to to to to to to. to to to to go go go go go go, 't grab their hand and walk them in unless they want to grab your hand. You know what I mean? Stuff like that. Don't be there for them, but don't be like, and then, me and Lou, we're like, we're like, we're sort of bickering because we're stressed about our and it's stuff. And isn't our kids starting school, it's our baby, their, their, thap, th. th. to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, th. to be, th, th, to be, th, th, thi, thi, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, don't, don't, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, thi. thi. Don't, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. Don't, thi, thi, thi, don't, don't, be, be, be,up, you know, becoming a girl, like a proper kid. That's what is to stress. Not that she's got to sit in a room with a group of kids in all the same clothes. Which essentially is what it is, isn't it?

She's going to sit in a room with loads of other kids her age, which would be fun in the same clothes and be excited and love it. But we were telling each other, like, they, like, like, kind of thing. But yeah, not just like launch them out the car and speed off listening to 80s music. Sayonara. You're on your own now, mate. Yeah, of course. I mean, because my memories of primary school was a joy to me. I loved primary school. Secondary school was the one you want to worry about? You think thisilets and my spots were so bad that I just walked home I just went home.

I was like I can't I can't be around like this I just got a walk home so that's what I did got back on the bus went all the way back home. Oh no he had a top of downhill and went home at half three that's true anyway. There's what he did, got back on the bus, went all the way back home. Oh no. He had a top of Banner downhill and went home at half three. That's true, anyway, is what it was. Skyby. That is. So it's remarkable how your sons like this, a little bit nervous of things to. It's mad.

Can't see where it's gone. Yeah. Do you feel like he's you and Pip is Claire? Yes, I do, yeah, I do. I think Charlie's so much like me. Yeah, he thinks about things a lot and kind of, you were saying there, Josh, about how you sort of overanalyzed things. I definitely have that. I like, sometimes I really stress, I have to, as you know, I lie down in the shower. This is my thing, I'll put the shower and I'll th and I, and I'll to, as you know, I lie down in the shower, this is my thing, I'll put the shower and I'll lie down in the shower and I'll sort of like go over everything that's all worried me. But I do hope I'm not face down or face up.

It depends how bad the day's being rocked. It's increasingly face down. to increasingly face down. But I would say that I would like to think I'm not imparting this on him. I actively am not trying to be worried. I'm not like that. Yeah, of course. Oh, no, of course, no.

But it's interesting. But it's interesting. You see them. But you know what, Pip is far more just like stubborn and kind of just like stubborn and kind of things. Clare to thi. that. Clare, you, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, thi, I, I, I, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, th. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. what I love both I love them both you know that. When we did that me me and Lou have been trying to do that like when you see spiders in the house and those like like that and then like the kids like and I'm like Lou if you didn't scream but they wouldn't have screamed there and they're literally. 100 percent yeah yeah so Charlie is now thrified the the the the the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th to to to to to to their to to to to to they're to to to to their to to they to they're they're they're to they're they're they're they're they're to to they're to to they're they're to be they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they they they they're they're they're they're they're they're thus to to thus to to try try try try to try to try to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to they're Charlie is now freaked out with the butterflies we talked about it at London Zoo because Claire has a genuine phobia of butterflies, try to deal with

it and take him through it and just failed completely, just freaked out where these monics were not landing on her or whatever. And he's now, Charlie's like, oh God, despite, and I'm trying to go, these ways when you're saying they're small and can't hurt you, you're undermining his mom, Craig. But you've made the decision it's more important that he's not scared of butterflies than he respects his mom. That's the decision you've made that. Yeah, but it's butterflies, isn't it? I mean, come on. Well, I've had to do that with theme parks and stuff,

to do that with theme park and stuff like that and rides. I hate any rides like that but they want to go on stuff so it's only the little dragon ride at Legoland but that was a huge deal for me and the kids were like bold on it didn't give a shit and I'm like oh yeah the next one and I'm like hyperventilane trying to find an asthma pump going on this dragon ride but try to the dragon ride th try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try th but th but th but th but th but th th th th th th th th thry thry thry th is th is that th is thry th is th is th is th is th is th i tho tho thin that thin that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that's that's that's that's that's that's th is th is th is th is th is th is th is thin thin thin thro throngin throo thoo' thro' thro' that's that's thro' that's thro' tho' that's that's tho you've got me, you're supposed to be open and honest with your kids, but then also I'm completely bottling it up and pet you go on this fucking ride. Like, it can't be the right thing to do, can it? Have you, when we talk about earlier about worry, can I ask you something if you've, I don't know if you've, I don't know if you're reading stories to your kids, if the story if they're bits of the sort of worrying a bit. Yeah, it's not I'm not alone in that am I? You know those ones you get where it's like famous people so it's like inspirational famous people. Yeah. Oh yeah yeah they're like a classic Christmas gift you'd receive. Yes. So we've got

the Ella Fitzgerald one okay where her mom is killed in a road accident and then's put, she's put into a home for orphans and then they're treated really badly so she leaves. And so that is a straight, straight to, well, I'd been great of jazz singing. That's the main body of the book. But yeah. Yeah, so it's with Stickman. Stickman's the one with us. So there's a bit where stickman's frozen in the snow, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th, we th. th. thom, thom, thom, thom, tho, tho, thomom, thom, a thom, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a home, a thom, th. A th. A th. A th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho, tho, tho, thoomorrow, to. to. to. to. to. to. to. thoomorrow, thoomorrow, thoomorrow, thoomorrow, tho. tho. tho. But yeah. Yeah, so it's with Stickman. It's Stickman's the one with us. So there's a bit where Stickman's frozen in the snow, which we can't, we can't read. Another bit where he's put in the grate. So all these bits are skipped.

You know them stories about people, you know, we've got that Amelia Earhart one because it's about a lot of them about like famous William. She dies. But the whole things about how she's an amazing pilot and stuff like that, but she dies flying the fucking plane. So how good is she? I don't know who's the story. You had one job, Amelia. It's good to, she's trying to go around the world in one go, it's a fair play, but you sort of think, oh, right, okay. So she was really sick, but she didn't do it. That's the real lesson. Never dream.

Never dream. They basically what they needed. They need kids' books, all the tendon depending on what your child's like. So it could have a really soft ending. That's also the propaganda. Let's just change it to what feels best. And everything was all okay.

You know, you can have stick man on a tire of sort of burning sticks at the end losing all his friends. Yeah but I'd say it falling in a bit of waters that's not too bad is it falling in a bit of water that's what happened to Amelia Hart to be fair. It depends on the height. As a man Tom that struggles to criticize yeah. Which is an admiral trade I think you'll struggle with the final the final the final their their that struggles to criticize, which is an admiral trait, I think you'll struggle with our final question, which is why I'm so excited about asking it.

Which is, we always like to end by asking, based on Matthew Crosby, his wife listens to the podcast, so he gave him the opportunity to say something his wife does that annoys him that he hasn't said to her. What one thing does Claire do? Does Claire listen as a parent? Yes he does, he does, yeah, Claire loves it. What one thing does Claire do that annoys me? I generally am struggling to think of, okay I've got it, I've got it, I do have the thing. Here we go really a noise, but this is definitely true, that when we are, when we go out to a social thing together as parents, I'm always the one who's, who's entertaining the children,

but I don't just mean by children, I mean, it seems to be that I'm lumbered with lots and lots of children when we go to a thing. So we went out for Sunday lunch, maybe a fortnight ago with some people. And then there was a point at the end where I was down one end of the table. Like, you know, like at a wedding, you have a kid's table. It was me and six children and someone's baby. I didn't even know who the baby was. There was a baby with us and everyone else was getting pissed at the other end of the table. Like slap each other's back from your well of a time and I'm playing sort of match the farm yard animals. Oh that is annoying in it. Children. Yeah. So that would be it. But then I would,

it doesn't really annoy me, annoy me. But is that Claire's fault? No. So to be to be honest, I don't think it is. I think that's more I that so I don't think that's even her. I think that's more, the question should be, what sort of part of my personality annoys me most? And that would be my absolute failure to not be the- desperation to please children. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, but you know, it is one of this. But I sometimes see, the kids as a really good out.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But on other times, you'll just be a drinks in an afternoon and you've got a two-year-old and they just want to push a pram up and down a stair for an hour inside while everyone's outside at a barbecue. That is the slowest time ever moves. No, no, but that's good though if you don't want to be with the other people. If you don't want to be there, it's great. If you do want to be there, it's heartbreak.

You can just see in the distance everyone having a wonderful time through the kind of French doors you can see they're all partying away in the garden. Kissing and dancing and rolling around the grass. Yeah no definitely I miss I missed the first goal Luke Shaw's goal in the final in the Euros final because I've got I've got it on catch up spoiler a lot. Please don't yeah yeah I'm watching the final yeah I'm waiting for it. So you missed you're too drunk to remember it wrong. Yeah, I missed it. I was upstairs, try, this is my own child of course, but upstairs trying to sort of settle

PIP and get PIP back to sleep. Of course I was trying to get one of my children to sleep when time for the penalties? I did, yeah. Should have stayed up there, too hon. But, yeah. Oh, cheers, Tom. It's been amazing. Thank you so much. Absolutely pleasure. Hopefully, you get some sleep.

Do you know what? Do you know what? the sleeper. Yes, yeah, yeah. In the one of a seven so that's good so something's he thought it looked like a number seven that wasn't his way of saying a number one or a number two no it was a number seven he was correct so he may not be sleeping but he knows his numbers so that's good that's that's good that's good that's good he can shit he can't he he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can't he can't he can't he can't he he he can't he can't he he he he he he he can't he can't he can't he can't he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can't he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can can can can he can can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can he can't he can't he can't he can't he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he can't he can't he can't he can't he can he can he cling on to it. The hero is quite tricky. Tom Crane. That isn't it? That's a story, isn't it?

I can't believe his kid doesn't, the sleep situation at three and a half. Poor, poor Claire and Tom. It's insane, isn't it? It is so extreme. You know when you're like, I've just got to get six months? I'm just going to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to to to to to to much have you got to get it to four? Four years, just four years. I don't, I know exactly what my dad would have done with me with that graffiti. He would have gone, oh fucking hell, just drove past it.

And then I would have immediately cried and then he would have had to drive the long way forever and then my mom would have told him off. Yeah, it's a really difficult one to know whether you should go, just man up, I'm not going to be your graffiti avoider. I know that like the other day when we were going out and my daughter wanted to take her toy pram and for me I was just like, Rose was like, she's absolutely not taking it when I end up carrying it around. And I was going, oh God, she's going to cry when we tell her. And if Rose th Rose th Rose th Rose th Rose th Rose th rose th rose th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi it's to to to to to to to thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thooom. thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooe. I the the thooooooooooooooo'. I. I was. I was. I was. I was, oh God she's going to cry when we tell her. And if Rose hadn't been there, that Pram was 100% coming with us. And I was 100% carrying around all day just to avoid her crying. And then Rose put her foot down, we didn't take the Pram, and she'd forgotten about it literally by the time we're in the car.

Yeah, that's the thing. I think you can over do it, you can over, you can over It's difficult. It's hard to know and it everyone's different but yeah, Jesus Christ I'm just got a text from Claire Tom's girlfriend that says I can't believe Tom Dodge the what annoys you most about Clare question poor. She must have been listening at the door. Oh, maybe it's just we can hear everything now no fucking sleeping. Oh, by the way. They live in one big room. One big room on a middle of a roundabout. Yeah, with huge windows. It's the sun baked all day. They live at Clacket Lane motorway services off the M25. But that was great though, good lad Tom. Thank you to everyone for listening and we will see you on Tuesday. Tuesday.