Parenting Hell with Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe - S05 EP22: Denise Welch

Episode Date: October 7, 2022

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant actress, author and broadcaster - Denise Welch. Unbreakable is available to watch on BBC iPlayer. Thanks, Rob + Josh. BIG NEWS.... we're writing a book!  ⭐ All the stories we can’t tell on the podcast – in depth. ⭐ What it’s like to raise a stiff neck and a loose neck – straight from the horse’s mouth (our parents) ⭐ And.. the BIGGEST REQUEST WE’VE EVER HAD FOR THE PODCAST… Hearing from our wives, Rose & Lou. They’ve got a chapter each and YOU can submit your burning questions to them...   [e-mail] What's it really like to be a parent? And how come no one ever warned Rob or Josh of the sheer mind-bending, world-altering, sleep-depriving, sick-covering, tear-inducing, snot-wiping, bore-inspiring, 4am-relationship-straining brutality of it all? And if they did, why can't they remember it (or remember anything else, for that matter)? And just when they thought it couldn't get any harder, why didn't anyone warn them about the slices of unmatched euphoric joy and pride that occasionally come piercing through, drenching you in unbridled happiness in much the same way a badly burped baby drenches you in milk-sick? Join Josh and Rob as they share the challenges and madness of their parenting journeys with lashings of empathy and extra helpings of laughs. Filled with all the things they never tell you at antenatal classes, Parenting Hell is a beguiling mixture of humour, rumination and conversation for prospective parents, new parents, old parents and never-to-be parents alike. Find out everything you need to know, including how you could win a pair of tickets to the Parenting Hell LIVE tour & an overnight stay in London here:  https://www.bit.ly/ParentingHellBook We're going on tour!! Fancy seeing the podcast live in some of the best venues in the UK? Of course you do, you're not made of stone! Tickets available now on the dates and at the venues below. We can't wait to see you there... ON SALE NOW  14th April 2023 - Manchester AO Arena 19th April 2023 - Nottingham 20th April 2023 - Cardiff  21st April 2023 - London (The O2) 23rd April 2023 - London (Wembley) 28th April 2023 - Birmingham Utilita Arena  If you want to get in touch with the show here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] TWITTER: @parenting_hell INSTAGRAM: @parentinghell A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willickham. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves and hopefully you feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern-day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you the listener with your tips, advice, and of course,

tales of parenting woe. Because let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing. Visit continue. York you.c.c.a. Miller Light. The light beer brewed for people who love the taste of beer and the perfect pairing for your game time. When Miller Light set out to brew a light beer, they had to choose great taste or 90 calories per can. They chose both because they knew the best part of beer is the beer. Your game time

tastes like Miller Time. Learn more at Miller Light.C.A. must be legal drinking age. Hello you're listening to Parenting Hill with can you say Rob Becker? Rob Becker. Rob Becker. Okay and Josh where to come? I love that to come. Rob Becker. Rob Becker. Rob better. Okay. And Josh Whitakum. I love to the Nana Bubbies. That's nice?

Josh Widdickumy boobies. Unfortunately though, Josh Widdickumy boobies is not here. I am riding solo. So Michael, please can you tell me who that was. Have you got your mic there to let me know? I have, yes. Yes.. Yes. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to thus, to th. to to to. to, to, W. And, W. And, W. And, Wittic, W. And, W. And, W. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. th. th. th. th. th. th. tha, tha, tha, tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. to. tho. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. th, please can you tell me who that was? Have you got your mic there to let me know? I have, yes. Yeah, thanks, Michael. Hello, this is Teddy, who has just turned three attempting to say your names.

Though his favorite word at the minute is boobies. And no matter what, we can't get him to stop saying it. It never changes. His dad finds it hysterical and cannot stop laughing when he says it, which has now led to him telling his nursery teachers that Daddy loves boobies. Oh, lovely stuff. Thanks, Michael. Are they from the Wirral? They are from Liverpool, that was Katie. That was close, that was close.

She should have just gone Liverpool. Thanks, Michael. You can stand now and I explained to the listeners why Josh is thi, thah. thi, thi, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th, th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi.. So yeah, I fired him. It's over. No, joking. Basically, Josh has had an absolute nightmare. We are recording this the day before the Denise Walsh episode goes out. We normally do a little 10 minute intro,

little chat, see how we're getting on, do some correspondence. However, Josh has had a bit of a nightmare. I don't think Rose is very well and he was at the hospital with the kids in the middle of the night. Everyone's okay but he's absolutely knackered and he's looking after two children while Rose is in bed. But he has sent a couple of voice notes to let us know what's going on. So he can listen to these together. I've not heard any of these. One of them's 3 minutes 19 and one of them is 1 minute 5. And one of them is 1 second 1 minute 5 1 1 but I'll play the three minute let's go. Hello guys, long time listener first time caller.

So, what f-effing night? So tired. I'll quickly take you through it as to why, um, I can't be with you. Before we carry on he sounds broken, doesn't he? Hopefully it's nothing too bleak. Oh no the gardeners here making noise oh for fuck sake Michael might be able to play this in without gardener noise if we're lucky. I've got some porridge and not for myself. So Rose is ill.

Because my daughter's been ill and off school on Tuesday, Rose's caught it. Oh no. So Rose goes to bed at 9pm. Not at all well. Um. And then, uh, I go to bed at half-eleven, can't go to sleep, like, totally wired, terrible sleep for the moment. Just like, this is a night nightmare this is a living nightmare I'm going to be lying in bed all night full panic mode exactly what

you don't need to get to sleep one a am some wakes up and crying and go in we go in because you won't settle and um give him I go in, we go in, because you won't settle. And give him, I go in because Rose is obviously stuck in bad, because she's just so unwell. Go in and give him I reproof him. Come out, he's far worse. He's far worse to talk about him. I'm not going in, was really working him up by house, I mean me.

Um, he's absolutely going mental. And you won't go to sleep at all. Proper, I own so tired I can't remember what that thing's called where children don't want to be without you all of a sudden at night time, that thing. Um, anyway, go in after a bit, check his temperature. It's 34, which is low. I didn't know it went low. Sorry to interrupt listeners, but I didn't know it went that low. Hopefully he's all right.

I mean, I've not listened to these. This could be awful. I've laughed so far, but I don't know why I'm laughing, I feel mean. But it is funny, isn't it when he's, when he's like, when he, when he, when he, when he, when he, when he, when he, when he, when he, when he, when he, when he's like, when he's like, when he's like, when he's like, when he's like, when he's like, when he's when he's when he's like this sorry Josh which is bad news Google it bad news very bad news your child should not have a low temperature it's could be hypothermia or sepsis or whatever it's called I see as a negative full panic mode sets in well no in fact what you've got to do I suppose in that situation. I think we're going to take him to hospital obviously before that. Presume the temperature thing's not working do it on us it's totally fine

change the batteries do it on him again he's still down 34.2 so I have to drive him to the hospital I order order cab because you can't park at the hospital for more than an hour and it takes forever at the hospital. Oh my God, I've done two and a half minutes, you're not going to have to do anything this morning, Rob. And then, um, cab managed to get one four minutes away, then it abandons us. I just think I'm just going to have to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to drive to to to to to to to to to the to to the to the to the the to be the the the the hospital the thoom. thoomorrow the hospital their thi. thioli. thioli. I'll to be one four minutes away, then it abandons us. I just think I'm just going to have to drive. It's, uh, Rose's out of bed by this point, because even though she's very ill, the panic's taken over. I take him out, drive him to the hospital,

park up, you get an hour's parking. I'm like, this is a, I'm just gonna have to get a ticket ticket ticket a ticket ticket a ticket ticket a ticket ticket a ticket ticket a ticket ticket a tick ticket a tick ticket a tick ticket a tick ticket a to get a t doctor after about 10 15 minutes they talk to someone she does his temperature obviously he's fine but Oh wait there comes my daughter I've said another one in a bit 36 point five long story short Josh had a team he's a team at a team he's a thirty-sa' thirty-sa'er-I'm and it was thirty-six and absolutely fine which is definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely definitely thi sounds definitely thi th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi's tho's just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just so so so so much so much so much so 34, he rushed and went to hospital in a panic and it was 36 and absolutely fine, which is definitely sounds like something Josh would do. Here's the next voice note.

I can't even remember where I got to, but I think, so they check him, straight away his temperature is fine, his heart rate is fine. I don't know what's happened. Obviously we have got a faulty thing, or he's just improved. Or whatever. Anyway, good news. I leave well within my hours parking. Straight out of there, 15 minutes in the hospital. Drive back. By this point, it's about... Two, two-thirty maybe, somehow. Um...

And, uh... so then he might go back to sleep then let's decide of course he would go back to sleep you just taking him to the fucking hospital for no reason well a reason but it turned out not a reason I'm not being mean Josh the person who organized my daughter's party with Texas at 230 in the morning with planning ideas he can't sleep. So he's decided to do that. And, um... The party planners dropped a message at T30 a.m.

East London's men's summer. You wouldn't get an out in zone 5, office hours, 9 till 6. I tell you what to get to sleep. By this point, I am exhausted. Anyway, good news. My sleep insomnia's totally gone. All I needed to do, it turns out was take my son to the hospital. And by then I'll be so tired, I'll just go straight to sleep.

So I was out like a bloody light, a half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half half a half half half half half half half a the the the the the the the the the just go straight to sleep so I was out like a bloody light at half three up at quarter by seven and um on with the day and now we've got to work out how we've got to take our cat to get have kidneys flushed a barrel if you remember exactly the same time as the school run which we're doing fine but Rose is struggling to get out of bed because she's in such a bad way because she didn't have any recovery time because she was ill. So I've got to work out how to deal with this this morning. They're both due to kidney flushing in school in opposite directions both at 930, the cat and the daughter. Bye.

Oh, and buy the book. Oh, and buy the book. I'll tell you what, if that was my cat, that kidney would not be getting flushed. So that's Josh, that's been Josh Woodicum's evening, so he couldn't make 8 a.m. to do this record so I'm here, but no, bottom line is if you do get your own temperature checker, make sure it works. I don't know if he did his own ear before he went to the hospital. That would have been my first thought. Anyway, so Josh has gone, you know, completely broken, it sounds, which is terrible for him, great for us. So yeah,

that's why he can't be here. So it's just me now. Right, Michael, should I introduce introduce the episode? Yes, please. to Okay, listeners, we have Denise Welch on today. This is a really, really interesting chat, really funny as well. Denise Welsh is an absolute, me and Josh will talk about it afterwards. She just nails it. She's really funny, but also she's got lots to say. And a bit of a trigger warning, there's a lot of chat about depression, and especially post-natal depression, and Denise goes into quite a lot of detail which is really interesting she's really funny about it but it's quite serious topic at

times but it's a really interesting story Denise because she she was an addict at one point and then she met her current husband Lincoln who appears on Unbreakable on BBC this new the new show I'm presenting about couples and they met like six a.m. off their ed in a club and then got sober together and they've not touched anything since. And I was a bit, I preconceived ideas of Denise Welch before I did this program as the sort of, you know, opinionated, very loud person on loose women. But actually she's one of the, so kind, kind-hearted and emotional people and it's so interesting, seeing her their sort of look after each other because they've obviously both been through quite a lot and they're amazing on the show and

she's got such an amazing story when you consider all the stuff she talks about and then her son as the sons have gone on to be actors and you know the lead singer of the 1975 it's really interesting chat and I hope you to And here is Denise Welsh. Do you know what, Michael? I think we could get rid of Josh and do it ourselves if you had a couple of kids. I'm just not willing to make that sacrifice, sorry, mate. Yeah, I gave it. So you'd be willing to sort of do it and absolutely jib Josh out in a massive sort of cash grab where we literally have a child.

I'd probably text Ellis and see if he'd do it for a day rate, and then you and I carve the rest up. Well, you know, if he don't show on Tuesday, then it's something to think about, isn't it, Michael? Only joking, Josh. I hope you, everyone feels better soon and stop checking the temperatures in the middle of the night and going to the hospital. Right, here's Denise Welch. Welcome to the show, Denise Welsh. We're very excited, have you on Denise. Very excited. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. Well, because Denise, I've always liked you from a far without sounding like a stalker. That's a weird start to the interview. I've always been interested from a far. But we met on Unbreakable. the new th. That's th. That's th. That's th. That's, th. That's, th. That's, th. That's, th. That's, thi. That's, thi. That's, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, thi, the to, to to the the to the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the show, the show, the show, the show, the show, the show, the show, the show, the show, the show, the show. D, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the the. Denise, the the the the the thenenenee. Denise, Denise, the the the the. Denise, the to to to the. Denise, th Unbreakable, the new BBC One show starting 6th of October, where I'm the host with some dating and relationships experts, and then we have a series of celebrities with their real life partners on the show,

staying in a huge country house, competing for the title of Unbreakable Couple. It was, it's really well put together and because you don't know you know if you if you take a leap into this kind of sort of like hybrid reality sort of show you know everyone talks about the editing and you have no idea how they're going to portray you but actually the first episode is funny but when Simon tells his story you could hear a pin drop you know so I think it's going to have lots of hysterically funny moments, but lots of moving moments as well.

Yeah, no, it's basically a combination, you'll love it, Josh of like, I'm a celebrity. I'm going to be honest with you, I'm very excited. I'm a celebrity, big brother and all star Mr and Mrs combined. So it's really fun and silly, but then you find it. With the added bonus of Rob Becket. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to, I, th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, I, I thi, I' thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, you' thi, you' thi, you' thi, you' thi, you' thi, you' thi, you' th. You' th. You' th. You' th. You' th. You' th. You' th. You' th. You' th. You' th. You' th. You' th. You th. You th. You, I, I, I, I, I's, I's, I's, I's, I' is, I' thin, I' thin, I'm thin, I'm thin. thin. thoa'a'a' thoa'a'a'a' throa' thro. You' thi. You' thi. You'Chief. You can't have everything I suppose but there you go. Right let's get let's go to kids. Denise how many children have you got? What's your child set up? My child's set up is two biological and one beloved stepson. So I've got Matty who is 33. I've got Louis who is 21 and we have Lewis who is 30 and we have Lewis who is Lincoln's son. Lincoln was four when he had Lewis. And Lewis is now about to give to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to give to to give to to to give to give to to to to to to to to to to watch to watch to watch to watch to watch to watch to watch their their their child their child. What's their child. What's their child. What's their child. What's their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. What's their. What's their. What's their. What's their. What's their. What their? their? their? their? What their? What their? What their? What their? their? their child. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. the their. their. their. I. I when he had Lewis. And Lewis is now about to give us our first grandchild. Oh wow. Very exciting. How are you looking forward to that?

Well we are really looking forward to it. I mean I've sort of given up on my own. I mean again you know well we were quite close to it at one point with Mattie and then not. Louis's only 21 so please obviously I don't want any from him just now. We're absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely. I th. I the the th. I the th. I the th. I the th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. th. to. to. to. to. th. th. to. th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the the the the th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thi't want any from him just now. We're absolutely thrilled. I mean, the only thing is, is there's going to be fighting over it because in the days of blended families, they've got about, they've got, you know, he's got Lincoln and me, then he's four way split these days. But they live in Harvicha, we live here, but we want to be as hands on as we can. I'm very excited. So where do you live? Sorry. Where do you live to these? Well, we live between Cheshire and so we've got a place in London. And we live in we had Matthew. So I was in a very then happy marriage with my husband Tim Healy, we're still very, very good friends to this day. And I had

got an incredibly strong homing instinct when I was pregnant. Tim is a Jordy. He was a very successful actor and that was the days when people said actors had to live in London. They don't Yeah. You know, this is how we do castings, you know, like, to. to. to. to. to. to. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, tie. tie. tie, tie, t. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, t. today, the. the. the. today, today, today, today, today, the. We. today, the. t They don't have. You know, this is how we do castings, you know, like this now, but you did have to, but obviously Tim was was respected enough and I wanted to move back to the Northeast. So we went back, got a lovely home up there near all our family. But I had Matthew in London after a 42-hour fucking labor. Oh my God, bloody childbirth and I and when I was having no drugs or anything just no and when I was to be honest I was gonna I was married to a complete champagne socialist to him and we were gonna have him in a national health hospital but it wasn't the best hospital so we did go privately

against him's wishes but he wanted the best for me obviously we went privately I didn't realize it was a natural childbirth hospital but when I spoke to them to them they. them them them them them them them them they they to to to they to to they. to to to to to to the to the the the they. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their their their their their their the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to the to to to to to to to to to to wishes, but he wanted the best for me, obviously. We went privately. I didn't realize it was a natural childbirth hospital. But when I spoke to them, they said, oh no. For goodness sake, Mrs. Healy, as I then was, for goodness sake, Mrs. Healy, it's not the Victorian times. Of course there's going to be pain relief if you require it. Fast forward to hit me over the head head head head head head head head head head head head head thapapapapapapapapapapap. th. the head th. the th. the the th. the th. th. the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their, th. th. th. their, their, their. their. their. their. their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. th. th. th. th. th. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. th. to. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. the head with a fucking spiked mallet and get this fucking thing out of me was my exact words. And after 42 hours and at one point they put me in when I say a birthing pool it was like a kid's paddling pool at which point there was a power cut and Tim had gone out for a tab. So I was left screeping in this fucking paddling pool. Anyway, Matthew came out and all was well. And he was eight pounds. It was a pretty tough labor. But anyway, out he came. However, in pregnancy,

I, and I always love any platform to talk about this, but I, in pregnancy, I was the typical blooming pregnant woman. I loved every minute of my pregnancy, even when it I was the typical blooming pregnant woman. I loved every minute of my pregnancy even when it went over the due date. My hair, you know they talk about people who are blooming in pregnancy. My hair was great, my skin was great, I didn't get any swollen ankles, you know all of that kind of stuff. I loved being pregnant. And all my friends, particularly my gay friends thought oh the baby will come out. She'll hand it to someone who delivers the yellow pages and she'll be offered a night goodbye for in the morning. However, I had a, I was fine after the birth, I was breastfeeding,

everything was hunky-dory. In fact, the nurses in the hospital said to me, oh, you're the only mom who hasn't pulled the sort of the anxiety cord, you know. Anyway, on the fifth day, we went home. We had a lovely flat in London, bearing in mind, and this is relevant, we had money in the bank, we had a very happy relationship and a much-wanted child. And we got home, and I was feeling very odd, which I put down to being the baby blues that 80% of new mothers have. You're incredibly th th th th people th people thi thi thoe thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th down to being the baby blues that 80% of new mothers have. You're incredibly emotional. People can't say a thing without you bursting into tears. But I knew that this was expected, so I sort of went with it.

However, got home after the fifth day, on the sixth day, my parents came down. I was incredibly close to my parents. Rob certainly talk about this. And I am, they came down. And I. And I. And I. the the the the about this. And they came down, and I had always longed for the day that my parents would see my child. And I just felt wrong. I felt flat. I felt really weird.

And that night I went to bed, and I had a panic attack. And it wasn't caused, it wasn't induced by anxiety over Matthew, who was, you know, crying a bit for food, but there was nothing out of the ordinary about his his babyness. Anyway, these days, 33 years later, what happened to me would have been a huge red flag, because I woke up in the morning after a very short time of sleep, and my boobs, which had been huge, huge big mamas for breastfeeding, had, literally, they were, had gone to nothing. The whole lactation process stopped. And all my milk had gone. And it was like empty boobs. And that would have been huge. The midwife came round, awful woman and said to me, um, no, she was, she was horrible. And she came around and she went, oh, oh, God. Oh, oh, God. That doesn't. That doesn't. That, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, awful woman, and said to me, no she was, she was horrible. And she came

around and she went, oh god, oh that doesn't normally happen unless a spouse or a parent or a baby dies. You're going to have to go out, yes, what she said, you're going to have to go out and get bottle formula. Luckily my mother was with me, she told me not to worry about that anyway. Whole lactation process had stopped, at which point, my their, their, their, th. th. th. th. th. thiiiii, th. th. th. thii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thioliolui, thi, thi, thioliolioli, and thi, and thi, and she thi, and she was thi, thi, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, thi. Oh, thi. Oh, thi. Oh, thi. Oh, thi. Oh, thi. Oh, thi. Oh, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. togei, toge. thi, toge. toge, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. whole lactation process had stopped, at which point, my mom said, let's take the baby out, so it was the first time we'd taken the baby out, it was in Krochend, and I was in a crout, the tea te, it was in Krochend, and I'd lived in a crown for 10 years, so it was somewhere I was very very very very very somewhere, I was very somewhere sort of a dream sequence as if I'm outside looking in. And she said, you don't feel depressed to you. And I said, no, I don't feel depressed. I just feel very weird.

Anyway, on the way back, we went into this corner shop to get some milk. And it was the day of a Hillsborough disaster. And I heard on the radio, 96 people have been killed in this horrendous disaster. And I came out and I told my mom, half a mile later, and I can remember this, I was lucid, half a mile later when we got back to the flat, my mom asked me a question about what had happened. And I said, that was a dream, I told you that was a dream.

Oh, wow. We got into the flat. A couple, a couple, a couple, to, to, to, to, I, I, to, to, to, I, I, to, to, to, I, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to, th. th. th. th. thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. And, I. And, I'm, th. And, to. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, too. And, told. And, tha. And, tha. And, the the th. And, the flat, a couple of my friends were there, and I just remember thinking, I want you to leave, I want you to leave, and all I can describe it is this blackness, I get quite emotional about it because it was anyway, it was the beginning and the end of a period of my life, I suppose. And this blackness from my toes crept up on me and every bit of joy and life as I knew it had gone. Oh my God. I was I was apparently when later diagnosed on the verge of it was severe post-nated depression on the verge of a purple psychosis and what I don't remember is my mom came into the flat and I was on the window trying to try and to open the window. Now when I talked about this subsequently the press put

that down as a suicide attempt it wasn't. There was no memory of that I didn't know what I was doing I didn't know why the baby was there. Oh my God. Anyway my dad and Tim had gone out to play golf and when they they came back the medics. to med med med med med med. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tip. I. I. too. tip. too. tipe. tipe. try. try. try. try. too. I. try. try. try. t medics were on my bed and I was hospitalized and it was severe postnatal depression and it took me 20 years to receive information that that could have been hormonal and you think how many women are having a baby every single day of the week and I used to say to people this't psychological. I didn't have any problems in my life. There were no child, you know, the psychiatrist would try to find some childhood trauma that had happened to me, you know? And if there was, I would have been the most open person to talk about that, but there wasn't.

How long did it last? Well, that's the million dollar question, Josh, because 33 years is the answer to you. And I don't want to frighten people because for most people with post-natal depression, it will go and they will recover. Unfortunately for some people, it opens up a tendency to clinical depression. And I have just celebrated, if that's the word, my first time in 33 years, I've gone three years without an episode. September 19th, 2019, that was my last episode of depression. And I don't know why, so I'm not overthinking it as to why,

because I'm sure it'll come back at some point. But, you know, it obviously then had a huge impact on Matthew's childhood on everything, but I am grateful of the chance to talk about it because people always try to pin clinical depression onto some previous trauma, and sometimes it is. But post-nate a depression, you've just passed a human being through your foo,

you know, that grew inside your body. There are going to be some hormonal changes that maybe have to start being taken into your hands. Yeah, well it's chemical imbalance sometimes, isn't it? And it's just your body's producing all these mad hormones and chemicals. And apparently the people like me, as a layperson, I'm well informed on it, you know, because obviously you can imagine how many people I've spoken to and how much I've read about and talked about. People like me, I was blooming in pregnancy.

It's not necessarily a red flag, but I think a lot of people think that people who've been previously anxious or people who are very low or, you know, those other people to look after. Nobody could have told that I was going to be the person. No matter how many psychologists say to me, we would have been able to tell you wouldn't. Yeah, and you had lots of support, you're a confident person, you had that money in the bank and things like that.

It could happen to anyone. And I'm incredibly lucky because the only reason I'm still th is th is th. here is because I had a loving and supported supportive family who from day one of my illness knew that I had an illness. If I had a pound for everybody that said pull yourself together or snap out of it or let me take you to the Metro Center and buy you a new dress and I know they only meant well. Were you scared about the second pregnancy then in that situation? Well, that's why I didn't have one for 12 years, Josh, and to be honest, I'd always planned on having more, but we didn't for that very reason. So I got pregnant accidentally in Amsterdam with Louis after having a joint and I don't smoke

weed. Louis always says, Mom, please, could you tell that story on some more TV program? But yeah, so that was, you know, and Tim was on his own admission very worried about that. He was 50 then as well, you know, and so for lots, because he felt, he always said, I lost my wife. He, he married this happy, go lucky, you know, sort of a person. And he lost me for a long period of time. But ironically, what happened with Louis was, is

that people say to me, did you get depressed after Louis? Not any more than I had had subsequent episodes of depression. Because mine had never stopped, they were sort of ongoing, but the good times by far overwaved, the bad times, also 12 years on, I knew how to get through them easier. Yeah. So, but you know, I was, I was 42 by then as well. We were sort of old old parents. I mean, God, thank God we had Louis amazing. But, but then what happened with Louis was, I was okay and Louis obviously I'd had many, many tests

because I was older. And my friend Gordon, who sadly died, but he was my friend and my gynecologist, and he sent to me, I think we should give you an elected section, because, not because I was too posh to push, I'm from Wittl Page, you know what I mean? But because he said, let's do everything different,

let's make everything different to your first experience, just so that there are no sort of memory, you know, there were no memories of the whole th, to to to to to to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do to do the thi, the the thuic, thu, thu, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi................. I, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the. the thean, too toe toean, thean, the thean, the thean, thean, thean, thi. thi,, just so that there are no sort of memory, you know, there were no memories of the whole thing. So I was very happy to do that and I knew I was in incredibly safe hands with Gordon. So I had had all the tests and the amniocenteses and all of those things. I knew I was having a healthy boy. I did have a healthy boy. But then in the hospital, Hope Hospital, I had in national. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. Wea. Wea. Wea. I was their were. I was their was their was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was.then in the hospital, Hope Hospital, I had him National Health fabulous place in Manchester and he wouldn't feed. And I was kind of desperate to breastfeed because I felt I'd been robbed of that experience with Mattie and it was something I wanted to do so, but he wouldn't feed. And we were try and all these, you know, contortionist sort of things to get into that

that jar. Lou had had a the the th a th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th at a th at a th at a th at a thooo tho tho tho thuu thoom. thoom, thoom, tho-a, thu. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu. thu. I, thu. I, thu. I, thu. I, thu. I, thu. I thu. I thu. I thu. I thoooo, thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo get into that jargon. Lou had a terrible time with it. It was really difficult for her. It's really hard and and the nurses were fantastic anyway day three suddenly Louis vomited, I can't find a green, well you can't see it on me because a bright, bright, bright, a very electric green. And it was like a projectile exorcist vomit. Anyway, he was taken to special care and another nightmare began. Honest to God, my fucking kids. And um...

And... And... It's not always like this, any would be parents listening. Oh my God, please. That should have in the name of this podcast, my fucking kids. And he was taken to special care and they didn't know what it was. And it was horrendous. And all, and I, I had to walk down this long, long corridor to go and see him in special care,

which I called the Green Mile, because I never knew what was gonna be at the end of the corridor. And I could tell by, when I pressed the buzzer, and I'd go, hello, it's Denise Healy, I could always tell by the voice whether it was good or bad, you know. And anyway, so how old was he at this stage? He was just born, three days old. And so he was in special, he was in the they, he was in thi, he was in special care for two weeks, but he wouldn't, if he took a little tiny cap of milk,

he would then bring it up again. Anyway, they were eliminating, it was a medical hospital, not a surgical hospital, so they were eliminating everything, so they had to do the lumber punch of meningitis. And after two weeks, I just said to them, I can't handle this anymore guys. I know you're doing a brilliant job telling me what it's not, but I need to know what it is. And they said right. And they sent him and me up to Aldehae Hospital in Liverpool. And he was diagnosed eventually with a thing called Hirschbrung disease.

And Hirschbrong disease is a, in the bowel, between the fifth and the 12th week of pregnancy, the nerve endings in a piece of the bowel don't form. So before 1948, when the first operation for Hirschbrun was performed, he would have been a child who didn't thrive, and because they can't eat and they can't poo. So, but until they go in, until they do the surgery, they can't tell they do the surgery,

they can't tell how much of the bowel is affected. So eventually after six weeks of him being in hospital, and me being at the hospital with him, which was hard because Matthew was 12 and Matthew needed me. And anyway, they operated and there was nine inches of bowel missing, that they had to take out and they do what they call a pull through. So they took the diseased bowel out and they pull, they pull the good bits together.

And so we went from doing no poos to doing about 24 poos an hour. So I was just, I'm doing all the actions here, which you can't see, but I just constantly would whip it, whip it, whip it thrusted up all under. How quickly after did you go oh you know long in from to poo go for fuck sake probably within about 25 seconds because you've done about three. Anyway listen thanks to Alder Hay and the brilliance and and would you believe this in the whole world there were two Hirschsprung specialists in the whole world working there on two Hirschbrung surveys bearing in mind this is a condition that only affects one in 5,000 children. Wow.

And anyway so he was taken off the Hirschpring Register at five and to anybody who has a child with this condition, he is now a thriving 21-year-old pain in the ass. Oh, that's brilliant. Oh, that's incredible. So, Denise, obviously, when you first had your first Mattie and it was, you found out that you were struggling and it was all quite out that you were struggling and it was all quite difficult what was your and you had episodes as they were growing up what was sort of a day-to-day life for you then was it was

was life good he was enjoying it and then out of nowhere depression would creep up or was it always there or how did it like because there be people listening that you know maybe going through same thing but you know I don't want you to sort of paint a false narrative of it being all rosy but there must been points that were good and then it switched back how did it sort of work? That's exactly it and and I also say that to anybody you know because I do do occasional talks about this and you know talk about it like now when I get a platform is that I've had a wonderful life living with clinical depression. It's the most horrendous, isolating, crippling, debilitating illness,

but my life in between has been fantastic. And if that sounds like a paradox it's not meant to, but it doesn't, my life is still being fantastic and I wouldn't change it. Would I change it for the world? Yeah, I probably would, I probably would, but in answer to your question, it was probably for me about a year before I could honestly say that I was having many more good days than bad days. The trouble is with my depression is that it was endogenous, not reactive. So there is nothing to this day that I can plan as regards that's going to bring on my depression or that's not.

Right. Yeah. Because I think there's two types where I think me and Josh, I don't want to speak for Josh but can get anxious or anxiety at times, which for me, which for me, that if I put that much work in a diary, I will struggle with that. However, what you've got is not reactive to the situation, it just can just occur through hormones and chemicals. Having said that, there are certain things and exactly what you say, one of the triggers that I have to watch is overwhelming. And the funny thing is, it's not bigpacked diary, like you've just said, of little

some inconsequential things that just overwhelm me and thinking ahead as well projecting. And one of the areas where people like my husband and my then husband, I have to say, but Lincoln is incredible considering he didn't know anyone with depression. And he said, in his Soho days he would probably have been one of those people who said what the talk she got to be depressed about for God's sake? Do you know what I mean? He said he probably would have said that but what Lincoln will do? He will make me stop and remove as much as possible out of my diary. Obviously with all three of us talking now we have certain things that we were all people who don't want to let people to let to let to let to let to let to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the of us talking now, we have certain things that we're all people who don't want to let people down.

And as much as possible, we will work to that agenda. But sometimes you just have to, and Lincoln's very, very good with that. But going back to when Mattie was poorly, it was probably about a year. Then when he was 18 months old, I did an article for the eveninging Chronicle, my local paper who's, you know how your local paper champions you from, from the day you're doing star jumps from behind a tree when you get into drama school. And, and they sort of, you know, and so they've done an article and I spoke about my, about what had happened to me. And my agent at the time, he said to me, oh darling, you've made a huge mistake here. He said you should not be talking my the talk talk a to be to be to be to be the to be the the the to be the the to be the the to be to the the the the the to their their their their the time, he said to me, oh darling, you've made a huge mistake here. He said you should not be talking about your madness.

He said you'll never work again. And I said, I cannot go through what I've been through and not speak about it. Well then, woman's own or some such magazine that in the days when they were nice and had Roger Moore in the knitted suit on the cover. They picked up the story. And from then on, I hadn't realized how I was the only person on the tele, talking about this. Because you've got to remember, back in 1989, we didn't have Google, you couldn't

put postnatal depression in and a local group come up that you could maybe contact. There was nobody, there was a thing called the Association for Postnatal illness and you had to write to them. I couldn't even pick up a pen, Rob. Yeah, of course. You know, if it hadn't been for my mom who took unpaid leave from work to be with me, Tim was away, he was doing casualty in Bristol and he was doing a series called Boone with Michael Elphick in Birmingham. And he'd had to, he was playing a club comic and he had to grow a moustache like a sort of handlebar mustache and he had to talk to me with his hand over his mouth because I was convinced that everyone was plotting to change everything around me. Oh really? It's really, really weird and I can remember all these things but anyway I got then asked to do things like Robert Kilroy Silk

Show in the morning and the time the place and I was determined that even if it did make you know people say did you lose work because of it and I said well I don't know because they if I did you know but I don't want to work for people who would have not given me work because I was I the the the the the their.... to to to their. to to to to to to to to their. to to to their. to to to to to their. I to to their. I to to their. I was. I was to to to to to to to to to to to to to to. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm to. I'm to. I'm to. I'm to. I'm to. I'm to. I'm. I'm. I'm. to. I'm. to. to. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm to. I'm to. I to. I'm to work for people who would have not given me work because I was vocal about having a mental illness. And I just made it a mission that I was going to talk about it. And if I was the only person talking about it, which I was for a timing, then I would risk, you know,

thin, then I would risk, you know, losing work if people thought I, you know, this is my third marriage and whatever. I never thought I'd meet someone, you know, in my 50s, certainly not in the nightclub at 6 in the morning, you know, that would become my, if there is a soulmate, he is, he's the person I want to be with, you know, more, more than anybody else. But of course, that all happened. The only thing I can thank alcohol and drugs for is meeting Lincoln. Yeah. And getting sober together, it's such an amazing story.

And getting sober together because of course what happened was as a result of my illness and trying to keep up with a packed diary and working in a soap opera. Baring a mind, you know, when I was doing Coronation Street, it was watched by sometimes 21 million people an episode. You know, that's the the the the th, and getting th, and getting th, and getting th, and getting th, and getting th, and getting th, and getting th, and getting th, and getting th, and getting thu thu thu thu and getting thu and getting thu and getting thu, and getting thuk, and getting, and getting, and getting thuk, and getting thuk, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and getting, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th people an episode. You know, that's the third of the country watching you. There's a lot of fucking pressure on you for that. And also a schedule that just was unforgiving. And rather than step back, because now people stay off work if they've lost an eyelash. And, you know, was just from the the show must go on school of of work. Yeah of course. And but there are times when I think I should I should have stepped back because if I'd had a kidney complaint or a

liver disease or something everybody would have felt sorry for me but the horrible, horrible isolating thing about depression is you have a you have an invisible illness and and that's when the alcohol started, isolating thing about depression is you have an invisible illness. And that's when the alcohol started and that's when the drug started. So there are no excuses for my behaviors, but there are reasons for it. So it doesn't excuse them, but there are reasons why it started. Because my, my problems with alcohol dependency was trying to numb my illness. What's amazing about it is you can get to 50

and that isn't what it's like forever. It can change. You can turn it around. You know, my motto is it's never too late to find the love of your life. It's never too late to change your behaviors. It's never too late to change your behaviors. It's never too late to leave a partner that you're not happy with for both your sakes. It's never too late. You know, there used to be that old thing and my granny's age of, oh I've made me bed, I've got to lie in it. You

don't have to make your bed. No, you don't have to makething I am most proud of and that isn't just for the life it's given Lincoln and me, it's for the life it's given my boys. And also as well, for you, when you're in severe depression and you've got a 12-year-old boy who's at school and you know, you feel like you can't, you know, it's too much and you've got this new baby that six weeks have in a hospital, then thi.......... And their, their, thi. And thi. And their, thi. And, thi. their, thi. thi's, their, thi, thi, their, thi, thi's a their, thi's a thi's a thi, thi's, thi's, thi's, thi's, thi, thi, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, and, and, and, and, and thi.. And, their. And, their. And, their. And, their. And, their. And, their, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, tha. And, th. And, th. tha. th. their. their. their. th. the they fix it and they're out and it's pooing all the time and all that kind of stuff and you and it's a good day but then it's a bad day. I mean like how does it feel now when you turn on the tele and he's acting and you go to an arena and your son's sold out2 and there was 20,000 people there and they knew every single lyric of my son's songs. And what happens is my normal Denise Welsh daily fan base is, hey, up, and we're a loose

woman. You know, gorgeous. I mean you met my dad. Or the other thing is you've got to get my wife Sue on this show. I tell you what, you never should. So how does she get done? You know, that's my normal fan base. Lovely, but very, very, very approachable. Because I am nice to people. That's just part of life and I don't remember anything other than that and I have a lovely, lovely fan base. Some people still think I'm in Corrie and that's fine, it was 25 years ago, never

mind. But I have a lovely fan base. Cut to a 1975 concert where I am suddenly the mother of Jesus. And I will arrive and people see me and I will see a cluster of teenage girls or girls women in their early 20s and they look at me and they get this voice like this, like oh my God there she is, she is like this. And honest to God, there was once, when I was at Blackpool and he was playing with a roll film with a harmonic orchestra and I was on like a balcony and as I arrived some people downstairs spotted me, they looked up and they all started cheering and I was waving and the next day somebody put on Twitter, me waving and it said, don't cry for me Blackpool. Like a wooden heater.

But in answer to your question, I was at the O2, there's 20,000 people that all sing in the words of my son's song that he wrote, because he writes with George and the band he writes the lyrics. And I just wanted to point to my vagina and say, could we all just please get on your fucking knees and say all hail, because it was 42 hours of agony and 30 years of depression. But obviously, I couldn't be, I couldn't be prouder of them both, you know. Louis is a young actor. I'll be perfectly honest. And like, you know, I said before we started, I've got to respect the boys when I talk about

them because we have a laugh, me and Matthew about people who think there's any kind of nepotism, you know, and Matthew always thinks he drew the nepotism short card because someone put the other day, how could that bird off loose women and and the transvestite from Benedome give birth to Matthew E. he said, yeah, he said, I drew the nepotism shortcard. Because the fact is the boys, the band is a success to spake me, not because of what I know about music is that. So I was always on strict instructions about what not to post and, you know, oh God, because I just wanted to be a proud parent. But he'd say, and I'd go, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, I that, I that, that, I that, I bet, just wanted to be a proud parent but he'd say and

I'd go well I bet Chris Martin doesn't stop his mom from posting he goes because she's Mrs Martin from Doncaster your Demise Welsh you've got up to me and what are the rules imposed by the rules have changed a little bit because Matthew he's much more celebratory of me now, he feels much more confident. He's always been proud of him. But you've got to remember that when you're in a band like the 1975, there's a lot of people around that, a lot of record companies and a lot of this and a lot of that. So certain things that I would say would be picked up by the son and the tho' the mirror and they're their their their..... And their. And their. And their. And their. their. their. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thrown. thrown. thrown. thrown. thi. thi. thrown. their. th thin. th. th. th. thi. th. th. th. th. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. their. their. their. they. their. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. the're doing talks with the posh papers and the music magazines and stuff. So he took a long time trying to get away from being Denise Welsh's son. Yes. Not that he was embarrassed by it, but he's a superb, you know, songwriter. When he's establishing himself, like now, I think, like you say, he's older and you sort

of more self-confident. Yeah, no one cares. No one cares. The-in. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. the th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi is is thi. thi. thi. thi is is thi is is thi is is is thi. thi is is is is is is thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. start he was probably more insecure about it than now. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And you know, you don't realize, I think as famous parents, the kids don't come, you know, and you guys have, your kids won't come home from school and said, oh, Johnny said this about you and Suzy said that about you. But the kids do. Yeah. I was on the cover. You got to remember I was a real. to remember is not a victim, I'm never a victim, but I was real tabloid fodder and I did give them a lot to talk about. So I was constantly on the front of those women's magazines, and I use women's magazines in inverted commas, they're not. But anyway, I was on the front of them all the time and it was always my marriage hell, my toy boy hell, my this hell. I mean, me giving up drinking, I think probably nearly put them out of business,

because they were so desperate to find another hell that I could be in, you know? My washing up hell, anything. My new quiet life hell. My son's a star hell. But the thing is that, you know, my kids grew up around that noise. so much Louis, he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he they. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thin. the, the, I thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. theeee. thee. theeee. the. the. the. the. th, my kids grew up around that noise. Well, not so much Louis. He says he doesn't remember. The other thing was, is that Mattie and I have had to have a real coming together of minds. And I will talk about this because Matthew was, without a doubt, affected by my alcoholism. And without a doubt, he says now that it was a rock and roll house to a degree.

There was always people there. The boys started their band in the garage in the garage. Lincoln started his career in our in our garage. I'm going to soon do a bonnet drama in the garage and see if I have the same guy down to success. Can Josh go on and write some jokes to this if it else? But you know they started in the garage I would wake up to do loose women and step over people in the kitchen on the floor you know and Matthew would go oh hi mom that's such and such from one night only and that's such and so from airship and all these fans but we were often up to too. it it it it too it too it too it too. it to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. the the the the their. their. their. to. to. to. the their. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So.. So. So. So..... So..... So.. So.. So. So. So.. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. the. the. And. the. the. And. the. the. And. And. And. the. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And we were off nuttle too. It was a party house. Mattie accepts that a lot of who he is is because of that, but also when you are

drinking and and doing cocaine, which is the worst, the worst drug that lies to you, that that takes away your moral compass, that only makes you feel good for 40 minutes. But unfortunately I became very, very reliant on it in an attempt to medicate myself. Was that a daily thing or more like a weekend blowout thing? No, sometimes it depended where I was. The thing is I brought up two wonderful children. So I wasn't the kind of alcoholic that went to the, you know, because I know I'm not envisioned and I talked in my hands. I wasn't the kind of alcoholic that opened the cupboard in the morning, took out a bottle of vodka and put it in a cup and drank it. That wasn't the kind of alcoholic. I was a binge alcoholic. So I wasn't I wasn't, if I wasn't, if I wasn't, if I wasn't, if I wasn't, if I wasn't, if I wasn't, if I wasn't, if I wasn't, if I wasn't, if I wasn't, if I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't the the the the the the the the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the kind the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, I was th, I was th, I was th, I was th, I was th. I was th. I was th. I was that, I was that, I was that, I was that, I was that, I was that, I was that, I was the the the the the That wasn't the kind of alcoholic I was. I was a binge alcoholic.

So I wasn't, if I was drinking in the day, it's because it was the hangover from the night before, I didn't drink in the day. And also, because my life was so split between being at home and being in London, either on acting, well, not necessarily London, but anywhere. When I was doing so s sordiaaaaaaaaaaa. I was the the the the the the the the the the tha. I was tha. I was tha. I was tha. I was a thaugh. I was this and doing it and I was away from home a lot so I did have it wasn't that I was always with matty yes you know and I was a perfectly functioning you're never really functioning as an alcoholic but as regards

doing the school run I wasn't drunk doing the school yeah you know what I mean it was when it gets to six o'clock and the kids are sort of the the k the the the the the the the the the th you th th th th th th th th th th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thr- thr- thr-I thr-I thr-I thr-I's thr-I's thr-I thr-I's thr-I th. I was th. I was to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I was thin is theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. I was to just so you get when it gets to six o'clock and the kids are sort of in bed, you start drinking and you carry on drinking and then get up hungover. Or if I was away from home, I would be drinking and I would be up all night and go straight to work. Yeah. But in those days, that wouldn't happen now on TV shows. But you know, there were times when I should have not been not, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, t, t, t, t, t, thea, t, thea, thea, to, to, to, thea, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, different time. We all talk about that. It was a different time. Because my drinking really started to be a problem, probably during the Coronation Street

time. So Matthew was 10-11 then. Right. Then it sort of escalated. Listen guys, I'd always loved a party. But you know, that was getting pissed on a Sunday night and feeling a bit rough on a Sunday type of person. Of course. You know, I didn't have, I didn't have a problem. And so Matthew and I have really, really, he's grown so much as a person because he was thrust into this kind of superstardom. And you know, he's been in a, he started the band when he was 13. Right. And when they were 21, 22 is when chocolate happened. So these guys have been together together together together as a together. together. togu. toged. toged. to to toged. to to to to to to their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, the th. And, they. And, they were 21, 22 is when chocolate happened. So these guys have been together as a band for 20 years.

Wow, yeah. You know, 20 years they've just celebrated as a band. And that's what Matthew said about this outing now, this tour, after the three years we've had, he said, I just want to be in a group with my best friends making and playing good music again together. And that's that'sthink this next tour is going to celebrate. I just think there were things that Matthew would point out to me that I'd said and done, that I would be defensive about because I didn't remember. But subsequently Matthew loves

and adores me and of course he's had his own issues so he understands addiction. I have a son who understands addiction. And we are incredibly close. He did, talking, going back to what I'm supposed to post and everything, now I just, I put things, but there was a few months ago when I saw something, some song clip that had come out, and I put it on Instagram and I put, you know, can't wait to see them on tour or something. And Mattie rang me and he said, hi mom. He said, are you okay? He said, mom, I love you very much.

And I went right, okay. He said, but you said, but you've just announced our tour. And we haven't announced it yet. And he said, my phone is just run off the hook with every agent I've got, every record company and universal. Oh my mother's, your mother's just announced the tour. Oh my god. So I do, I am aware and I do, I do have to be careful. And of course now, Louis is 21. He's just come back yesterday from, he's been filming a series in Croatia. So of course you know he's seen everything that's happened with Mattie so Louis will send me a picture and underneath it just says don't post obbs. What was it like when so you said he started the band at 13 or whatever?

Yeah and it was presumably it was just like a hobby that a teenage is doing. Do you remember like it becoming serious? Like do you remember that transition to thinking this is actually going to happen? I remember knowing that that music was in his bones as we say. His dad's very musical. You know obviously Tim is known as an actor but he's very musical. He's an incredible singer. And I'm an actress's very musical. He's an incredible singer. And I'm an actress who can sing. I'm an actress who can sing. You had a single in the charts? Come on. It was straight in at 23 and straight out the following week. Remember. That's good that. But yeah, but it was only off the back of being in Soldier Soldier, Johnson, you know, Robson and Jerome had had a hit and so they thought, you know, oh let's try and see if we can emulate that. Sadly it didn't work.

Um, Josh, you've got any more questions for Denise before I go into our final ones. Well, I've got about 400, but I think we, you know. We'll have to do a second part once the child. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I to to their their their their their to their to their their to to th. I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I to th. I th. Yeah. I th. I try. I try. I try. I try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. to to to to to to to to to to to to lovely way to spend an hour. I've thoroughly enjoyed myself. Oh, thank you. It's also just really, I think it's really important the things you talk about and how open you are about them. And I just think loads of people will have such a great reaction to this. And it's, I think, what would you, what would you kind of your advice be to people if they think they've got post-natal depression? Well, the thing is, Josh, is that unfortunately mental illness and mental health in this country

has always been secondary to physical health, and the two are absolutely entwined. I mean, when I get an episode of my, what heralds an episode of my illness is that I will often know a couple of days before that something might be brewing because I start to panic about the slightest things, like two dishes on a, you know, I'm not a clean freak, I'm not a house wife, absolutely no way. I like my house clean but it's untidy and chaotic. Little tiny things start to really, and Lincoln will go, are you okay? I go yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's that's that's that's thi, thi, thi, thi, that something that something that something that something that something that something that something that something, that something, that something, that, that something, that, th. That, th. That's, th. That's, th. That's, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi's something something something something something something thi. thi. thi. thii. thi. and chaotic. Little tiny things start to really and Lincoln will go, are you okay? And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine, but when are you going to take those things back to the studio? You know, I get really angsty about little things. And then just before an episode, I get a metallictingling in my palms and usually if that happens within 30 seconds I'm in a depression and there's a

certain you know how perfumes are very evocative. There's a perfume that my mom had when she came to stay with me for three days but ended up staying for six weeks that perfume if I ever walk past it I will get a rush of anxiety because it takes me back to those days. But luckily they've stopped making it now, obviously because of that. But it's a very, it's a very intertwining of physical and mental. What I would say to people is, we have this thing called, you know, it's good to talk. Britain get talking, all these sort of things.

It is so important to talking, all these sort of things. It is so important to talk, but it's all very well to hold up signs saying it's good to talk, but people have got to listen because people are still treated very differently at work if they say, I can't come in because I've got a heart complaint, as opposed to, I can't come in because I've got extreme anxiety and depression. And there is still a lot of work to do. And I do find there's a lot of virtue signaling around the words of it's good to talk. But the thing is now is that back in the day, even if I wasn't well enough to do it, now, if you say lived in, I don't know, Birmingham, there will be a waiting list for you to access national health, mental health services. It's absolutely appalling, and especially with young people,

it's appalling, but that's another conversation, you know, that needs to be addressed. But now, if you're in sort of, I don't know, you live in Edgebaston near Birmingham, where my goddaughter lives, you could now Google, depression services, Edgebaston. And there will be some group, some support group, some help group, that you could approach that would help you bridge the gap before you can maybe get medical services. It's not the be-on-endor, but it's just a group of people who will understand what you're going through. When you are in a massive depression you can't talk to anyone. So that is maybe when the people around you need to look for some kind of support mechanism for you when you are well enough to do that. Yeah. And you know,

joining any kind of group and talking about it is absolutely amazing therapy. The other thing is, you know, people say, well, get outside walking. I try and do that a lot when I'm well. When I'm poorly, I can't even get out of bed. So that's when the people around you have just got to make sure that you just do exactly what you do. And if that's staying in bed for four days, clear the diary. And just be there. And just be the last question is Lincoln. Lincoln, Lincoln, Lincoln, Lincoln, Lincoln, Lincoln, Lincoln, Lincoln, I I I I I I I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, the, the, the, th. th. the, th. th. th. thi, the the the the thin, the the the tho, that, that, that, that, that, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm tho, I's tho, I's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I, I, I, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I's, I'm, I'm, I'm thin, I'm the thin, thin, thea. t too. too. too. too. too. thea. thea. thea. thea. the show when you came on Unbreakable. He's such a lovely bloke and it was so sweet seeing how you to interact especially knowing your back story now. But the question is a bit different because you sort of met Lincoln when his son was a bit older but what is the one thing about Lincoln as a parent?

the thing you love the most stricter parent than me? But it's interesting because obviously with Matty, the the the the the th you hen he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he th th th th th th th th th th th th. th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, th. th. th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is is th is is is is th is th is th is th is th is th is th. th is th. th. thi thi thi thi is thi is thi is thi is thi is to to to to to thee to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to theean. to thi is thi. th a much stricter parent than me, but it's interesting because obviously with Matty, he's never parented Matthew, Matthew's 33, Lincoln's only coming up 50 obviously, you know, he's a young and and you know, well done me. And so, so he's a friend to Matthew and they're both huge fans of each other. Louis was nine or ten. And so, and it's very, very difficult, as people know, to come in as a step-parent, especially when Louis has a dad who was a great dad who Lincoln respects totally. And there were times in Louis' upbringing that I honestly felt that Lincoln was being too strict. But now, Louis says, I am so glad that I have those boundaries. Because I was the person who said, if you don't do that, that, that, that, that, that, to do that, to do that, to do that to do that to do to do that to do to do that to to to to to to to to to to to to to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come that, that, that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that to to that that to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to come to come to come to come to come. But now, Louis says, I am so glad that I have those boundaries. Because I was the person who said,

if you don't do that, I have told you five times, I will take that Xbox whatever it is away from you. And then, because I didn't want to have to fill in the Xbox time myself, I would give the Xbox back. You know, and Lincoln wouldn't, and then wouldn't, and think wouldn't, and so think wouldn't, and so think wo, and so think w wouldn't, so And so I think, so it's not really a fault. To be honest, it's very difficult to say. I think, you know, you would have to talk to Lewis as well. Lewis's Lincoln's son, I have a great relationship with Lincolus.

Again, he was 18. And he saw his dad go through a lot. They have become so incredibly, incredibly close. But I think that when our kids address these issues that they'd been through, Lincoln and I were both very defensive about it and that's something that we would change because nobody wants to be told what you did wrong. Yeah, especially by your kids. You absolutely don't want to. And so you and so you fight back and say, well, you should be bloody lucky because this, that near, you've got this and you've got this, and that's not the way around you. You should listen to your kids.

And if, you know, and, and, and, what is it? They fuck you up your mom and dad. You know, that expression, you know, and we do to a point. the same time, we are always great dad and he's a great husband. And you know, another thing, if anybody's thinking of addressing what sobriety does, you know, I mean, you've got to remember that when I met Lincoln in the nightclub at 6 in the morning, he was the PR and marketing manager for Stringfellows. And only three years ago, I was clearing out some numbers in my phone, and I found one that said Lincoln from Stringfellers when he was a booty call. Denise, an absolute pleasure and loved working with you on Unbreakable and I can't wait to see

the finish show. And yeah we'll get you back on when the grandchild's arrive. Absolutely. Thanks guys I've really loved it. Thank you. Denise Welsh. What a woman? We've still got a cameras on, which is weird when there's no guest. Okay, let's turn them off. Denise Welsh, amazing story, isn't it? Oh, I love that. It's an incredible story. Well, she's so funny and interesting, but also got stuff stuff to talk about, and, um, yeah, and I just, I found her story, her and so, that, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, that, that, that, that my time, Josh. You know me. We've all got her own a living. I mean, there's some carpenters listening

that have probably got a couple of cupboards at the back of their head going, that was a shit cupboard. Do you mean, but that's life. Sometimes you have good ones, but it's life. Genoos. too. In our game you can have good and bad. If a carpenter turned off and goes, I've knocked out some shit carbons, you'll see how this one goes.

Well, that's life, isn't it? Not everyone smashes a day at work. But it's really good this show, because what I like about it is because I'm nosy. You get to see how real relationships work. And normally relationships and the Stephen Bailey the person and say Denise Welsh, Shirley Ballast and all these people and it's Simon Western and stuff and that oh my God the Simon Western stuff is so heartbreaking and he loves his wife so much.

Anyway it's really great show. I'm sort of Lincoln and Denise I've got to know on that that's how we got Denise on the show. Yeah, and she's brilliant. We'll try and get a few of the other guys off the show on as well. It's nice to be so honest about her depression and like her drinking and stuff and how it affected the kids and how she should come back from that because I think, you know, people do thrown. People do their people thathe kids and stuff, but some people, it it it starts, it starts, it starts, it starts, it starts, it starts, it starts, it starts, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, and like, like, and like, like, like, like, like, like, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, and like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, like,, you know, to know that you can, you know, come back from what is a difficult situation. Totally. Kids and stuff. Not every family's 2.4 children and Rosie and perfect. So it's good to hear about it. But yeah, she's brilliant, Denise. We're a big fan. There we go. Thank you very much, Denise Welch. We'll see you on Tuesday when, well,

see it Tuesday. It'll be what it'll be be th th th th th th th th th th th th th th tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, that, that, tho, it'll be wo, it will be wo, it will be wo, that, that, that, th. th. th. th. th. that, it's that, it's that, it's that, it's that, it's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that, that, that, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toooooooooooooooooooo. to to. to. to. to.