Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Alan Stein Jr. on Peak Performance: How to Create It and Keep It EP 179

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up next on the Passion Struck podcast. One thing I've noticed among all high performers is they have a very strong reverence and respect for the fundamentals of their craft. The building blocks the basics is something that they do consistently every single day of their life. A certain level of motivation is certainly important, but it's been my experience, even in my own personal life, that motivation is fleeting. It's like any other emotion. I mean, there's sometimes where I feel highly motivated and there's other times where I don't.

Starting point is 00:00:28 I want to make sure that I'm showing up as my best self as consistently as possible. So if I'm only showing up as my best self or I'm only doing what I need to do when I feel like it or when it's convenient or when I'm feeling motivated, then my performance is going to be like a roller coaster. Welcome to PassionStruck. Hi, I'm your host, then my performance is going to be like a roller coaster. Welcome to PassionStruct. Hi, I'm your host, John Armiles,

Starting point is 00:00:48 and on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays.

Starting point is 00:01:11 We have long form interviews the rest of the week with guest-ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become PassionStruck. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to episode 179 of PassionStruck, ranked last week by Apple as one of the top 20 most popular health podcasts. And thank you to each and every one of you comes back weekly.

Starting point is 00:01:40 Listen and learn how to live better, be better, and impact the world. And if you're new to the show, we are so glad that you've joined us. And if you want to introduce this to a friend or family member, and we so appreciate it when you do that. We now have episode starter packs, both on Spotify and the PassionStark website, which are collections of your favorite episodes, organized by topic, to give any new listener a great way to get acquainted to everything we do here on the show. Just go to passionstruck.com slash starter packs to get started. And in case she missed my episodes from last week, they featured Dr. Ilet Fishback,

Starting point is 00:02:13 who's a professor and expert on the science of motivation, and she teaches at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. And we dive deep into her new book, Get It Done, where she explores the science and motivation. And we also had on the show Ari Wallach, who is a futurist and executive director of Long Path Labs, and we discuss his new book, Long Path, and do a deep dive into why we need to change the way that we're approaching the future, so that it can impact our ancestors and theirs as well. And if you love today's episode or any of the other ones I've just mentioned, please do us a

Starting point is 00:02:50 huge favor and give us a shout out on social media or a five star rating review on any of the podcast channels. They go so far and helping us expand both the popularity and the impact of this podcast. And speaking of impact, we have just an incredible guest today who I think you're going to find extremely impactful. Ellen Stein Jr. is an experienced keynote speaker and author of the book's Razure Game, High Performance Secrets from the Best of the Best, and Sustain Your Game, the keys to manage stress, avoid stagnation, and beat burnout. At his core, Ellen is a performance coach, with a passion for helping others change behaviors. He spent over 15 years working with some of the highest performing basketball players on the planet.

Starting point is 00:03:38 He transfers his unique expertise to maximize both individual and organizational performance. And we discussed today how he became a basketball coach to many NBA players, including NBA superstars, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, as well as Kobe Bryant. The importance of discipline and what elite performers do in the unseen hours, how you go about controlling the controllables, the importance of being present, and why microchoises that we make every single day matter so much. We also go into the importance of preparation, the consequences of not focusing

Starting point is 00:04:13 on sustaining behavioral change, why it's vital to expand your circle and so much more. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me on your journey to creating an intentional life now. Let that journey begin. So excited to welcome Alan Stein Jr. to the PassionStruck podcast. Welcome, Alan. Oh, I'm equally excited to be here. I'm looking forward to a fun conversation.

Starting point is 00:04:46 Well, for the listeners who might not know that much about you, I thought a great way to introduce this episode was for you to talk about how you got into basketball, but more importantly, why coaching at the high school level has now propelled you into what you're doing today. Well, basketball was my first identifiable passion. I mean, I vividly remember falling in love with the game at five years old when my parents signed me up for my first recreation basketball team. Here 40 plus years later, basketball is still a major passion

Starting point is 00:05:15 and a major pillar of my life. And for that, I'm incredibly grateful. One of the things that I'm most thankful for in my basketball journey is when I was really young, I had a coach give me what I still to this day consider the best advice I've ever received. And he said, Alan, the key to life is figuring out what you're most passionate about. And where you have some natural talent, some natural affinity and some gifts, and then find where those two things intersect. So find what you love, find what you're pretty good at and find find where those two things criss-cross. And wherever those two things criss-cross,

Starting point is 00:05:46 that's called your strength zone. And the more time you can invest in your growth and development in your strength zone, not only will you perform at a higher level, but you'll also have so much more fun, enjoyment, and fulfillment along the way. And I really took that to heart. And for the first third of my life,

Starting point is 00:06:03 that intersection was as a basketball player. I was a fairly decent high school player here in the DC area and then was able to play on scholarship down at E-Lon College at the time. It's now E-Lon University down in North Carolina. And once I realized that I wasn't going to be able to play after college, at least not formally, and have someone else pay my bills to put a ball in a basket. I needed to figure out where that point of intersection was going to move, and I decided to become a basketball performance coach. While I was in high school in college, I started to develop an equal love for performance training, strength and conditioning, nutrition, mindset. So when I graduated, I figured what could be better than combining my old love of basketball with my new love of strength and conditioning and performance training.

Starting point is 00:06:49 And it still met that criteria of being in my strength zone as I've always had a knack for being able to communicate and teach and lead. So I did that for the next third of my life, which was as a basketball performance coach, specializing as you mentioned mostly at the high school level. And then now I'm kind of in the third act, if you will, certainly not the final act, but the third act as a keynote speaker. And most of my work is in the corporate space, but the lessons that I teach all come from what I learned from through the game of basketball, through the players and coaches I've had a chance to work with. And I show folks how to use those principles with the highest utility and apply them to their lives and to their businesses. So even though I don't do anything in the direct basketball space anymore,

Starting point is 00:07:30 everything that I'm teaching and everything that I've written about in both books comes through the lens of someone that has spent his life in the game of basketball. So as I said before, I'm so thankful that I've been able to build a life and make a living around something I'm incredibly passionate about.

Starting point is 00:07:46 Well, for the listener who can't see this video, you've got various pictures of superstars from the NBA with you in them. I wanted to ask, are there some common traits that you found working with these elite athletes that made them achieve the success that they have? Absolutely. And to put a little more context for your listeners.

Starting point is 00:08:07 So I was able to work as a performance coach for two high schools here in the Washington DC area. These were not your typical high schools. Both of these high schools have produced over a dozen players that are currently playing in the NBA, Kevin Durant being one of the most notable.

Starting point is 00:08:21 So I had an opportunity for 13 years to have a peak on one side of the curtain to see what it took for players to go from being 13, 14, 15 year old kids with a dream to being able to matriculate up and actualize that dream. So I got to see what it took for them to optimize their performance as they were trying to climb that proverbial mountain.

Starting point is 00:08:41 That actually led to work with Nike and Jordan Brand and USA Basketball. Then I got actually led to work with Nike and Jordan brand and USA basketball. Then I got an opportunity to work events for players who had already reached the mountain top, who are already established. Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Stefan Curry. So I got a peak of the other side of the curtain to see what does it take to actually sustain high levels of performance and sustain excellence once you've reached that mountain top. So one of the things that makes my journey unique is I've been able to see both what it takes to reach the top and then what it takes to stay there and enjoy the ride. And yes, there are absolutely a handful of things that unite high performers, not just in basketball, but in any area of life. And I would say

Starting point is 00:09:20 the top three, the first is, and this is a lesson I learned directly from Kobe Bryant back in 2007, when he told me the best never get bored with the basics. So one thing I've noticed among all high performers is they have a very strong reverence and respect for the fundamentals of their craft. The building blocks the basics.

Starting point is 00:09:40 They don't try to skip steps. Working on mastery of the basics in the unseen hours is something that they do consistently every single day of their lives. So number one, I would say is not getting bored with the basics. Number two is they do a brilliant job of blending confidence which they've earned through sheer repetition and putting in the work. They blend confidence with humility. No matter how good they are, they know that they're capable of getting better.

Starting point is 00:10:08 They don't bother playing the comparison game and saying, hey, I'm the best on my block. They just want to know that they're becoming the best that they're capable of. And that humility is what allows them to stay open to coaching and is what allows them to stay open to feedback. So they're incredibly confident, but they know they can always get better.

Starting point is 00:10:27 And then the third, which is why I was so excited to talk to you, they just have a relentless passion, not only for their craft, but for the process of getting better at their craft. So for these basketball players, it's not that they just love basketball, which they do, they also love working towards mastery of something and getting

Starting point is 00:10:45 better. They're passionate about improvement and about self-actualization. And I've noticed that from high performers in really any industry. I think that is a great backdrop for the rest of this discussion. And in it, we're going to discuss both of your books. First was Razure Game and the second one for those who are watching, I'll show it right here, is Sustain Your Game. I like to out throughout both you kind of interweave stories with examples, both a prominent people and less prominent to illustrate the points that you have. But I thought we would start with raising your game and I'm going to build upon this unseen hours that you were just talking about. You introduce and raise your game

Starting point is 00:11:25 why high achievers are at the top of their game because of their discipline. I know the stories of Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Steph Curry, and how they show up hours before a game, they show up hours before everyone else in practice, but you can apply these unforeseen hours to any profession. What are some of the things that you've learned from watching these elite athletes

Starting point is 00:11:51 that you're now teaching people to do in the boardrooms? Oh, man, I'm so glad you went in this direction and there's so much gold with what you just shared there that we can unpack and a few thoughts come to mind. First, and I always love giving credit where credit is due. So I had a colleague of mine named Drew Hanlon, who I believe is the top NBA skills trainer in the game today. He's the one that first coined the term unseen hours.

Starting point is 00:12:14 And I loved it. I mean, he would say to his players all of the time, many of which are stars in the NBA, like Jason Tatum and Joelle Embed. And he would say, it's what you guys do when the cameras aren't on, and the arenas aren't filled and the cheerleaders aren't dancing. It's the work you do then that will determine

Starting point is 00:12:31 how well you perform when the lights actually come on. So he was always such a stickler for the young scene hours and I saw so much utility in that mindset. For me as a keynote speaker, it's the work that I do leading up to the time that I get on stage that will determine how well that keynote will go to see if I'll really be able to deliver a captivating performance that adds value.

Starting point is 00:12:52 Once the lights come on, that's just the time to showcase the work that you put during the unseen hours. And very similar to that is this mindset that is make your preparation, your separation and that preparation is one of the few things in this world that we have massive control and influence over. And in order to be a high performer, you need to prepare for every situation that you're going into. And the more you can prepare,

Starting point is 00:13:15 then the higher you'll perform when it's time. And both of these things, as you alluded to, so, and sightfully, require discipline. And I'm a huge believer in discipline. I think in today's day and age, especially on social with memes and slogans on t-shirts, that motivation gets a little bit over indexed, that it's a little over glorified. A certain level of motivation is certainly important, but it's been my experience, even in my own personal life, that motivation is fleeting.

Starting point is 00:13:41 It's like any other emotion. There's sometimes where I feel highly motivated. And there's other times where I don't. And I want to make sure that I'm showing up as my best self as consistently as possible. So if I'm only showing up as my best self, or I'm only doing what I need to do when I feel like it, or when it's convenient, or when I'm feeling motivated, then my performance is going to be like a roller coaster. And I don't want that. I want to be a consistent performer, regardless of how I feel in the moment. So I lean much more heavily on discipline. And the beauty of discipline is,

Starting point is 00:14:16 it's available to everyone. I hear a lot of people say things like, well, Alan, I'm just not that disciplined. And I let them know with love and grace and compassion, that's just the story that you've told yourself. And yes, historically, maybe you've chosen not to make very discipline decisions, but you can change that in a moment. The very next decision you have to make today, maybe what you're going to eat for lunch,

Starting point is 00:14:38 you can choose the more disciplined route. So you're, it's fully available to you. And then the more consistently you make discipline decisions and live a disciplined life, then you'll start to change that self narrative and you'll start to look at yourself as a more disciplined person. And disciplines fascinating to me because in many areas, it's somewhat compartmentalized. Like when I look back on my own life, for most of my life, I've identified as an athlete, and I've made very disciplined decisions with working out and with eating well. But I also can look back and I can say this with a huge smile because I've learned some

Starting point is 00:15:13 hard lessons. I haven't always been very disciplined financially. I've made some very undisciplined financial decisions in my life, but I own those, and I don't deflect blame, complain, or make excuses. I recognize that those decisions were 100% up to me, and I've learned from them those and I don't deflect blame complain or make excuses. I recognize that those decisions were 100% up to me And I've learned from them and I have the power to make more Discipline financial decisions moving forward, which thankfully I've done in the last couple years to help course correct So discipline is not something like eye color that you're you know, it's preordained and preset at birth

Starting point is 00:15:42 It's much it's something that you can choose and build and strengthen just like a muscle. And when you can use your discipline to improve your preparation during the unseen hours and you get all of those things in alignment, then you're moving in the direction of becoming, again, not only the highest performer you're capable of, and I know that's important,

Starting point is 00:16:01 but you'll also be so much more fulfilled when you're doing it, which to me is this, in this third act of my life is what's most important, which will also be so much more fulfilled when you're doing it, which to me is, this, in this third act of my life is what's most important, is finding meaning in my work and enjoying and finding fulfillment. I think this is a great lead into where I want to go next. I wanted to give the audience a couple examples to go even further into what you're saying. I had the opportunity to interview Susan Cain

Starting point is 00:16:25 if people aren't familiar with her. She's the New York Times best selling author of Bittersweet and prior to that quiet. But I was talking to her about her TED Talk, which has almost 40 million views and is regarded by many as one of the best speeches ever given. And it was interesting on this whole discipline aspect. She told me that she was so nervous to publicly speak,

Starting point is 00:16:51 that she practiced it actually hundreds of times to get to the point as you're talking about when she came up on stage, she wasn't feeling nervous. She knew she might make a slip up here and there, but she had the confidence to deliver it in that moment. And I realized the same thing myself when I was an athlete earlier on in my career. I was a very good runner in high school, but I kept going to the meats, and I would be so nervous before I would run that it would end up impacting my performance, but both in cross-country

Starting point is 00:17:26 and when I was running track, probably even more so in track because you've got less of a distance that you're going to cover. And it turned out that when I started to treat my practice like I did the meats and I mentally put myself in these mindful moments of preparation. When I finally started to apply that, my performance just skyrocketed because I was no longer intimidated, I was no longer worried, I was no longer psyching myself out, and I think that has a lot to do with what you just said. So I thought I'd use both those examples to kind of bring it on home. No, I'm so glad that you did. And ultimately what you're highlighting and I'm glad you went in this direction now is really the power of self-talk and the power of what we say to ourselves. I think

Starting point is 00:18:17 I could make a compelling argument that the things we say quietly to ourselves are the most important things that will ever say. We have to learn how to speak to ourselves in language and in a way that is empowering and helps lift us up instead of in a way that is critical and demeaning and demoralizing. And that is one thing that I've noticed with a lot of high performers is an opportunity for growth for them. And I consider myself in this group, this is something I've worked on, is learning how to talk to yourself in the same way that you would talk to a close friend or a loved one. You think back to your racing days, if you had a teammate that was saying, Hey, I'm really nervous for this meat this weekend.

Starting point is 00:18:55 You would most likely try to extend through your friendship. You'd extend some comfort and say, Hey, I believe in you. I know that you've put in the work. It's okay for you to be a little bit nervous. That's part of the human condition. I have all the confidence in the world that you're gonna show up and you're gonna run the best race that you're capable of.

Starting point is 00:19:11 And if for any reason you don't, if you get off to a bad start or somebody beat you in the last little bit, that's okay too. That's gonna be a lesson that you'll be able to learn and grow from. So my guess is that would be how you would come for a teammate or a friend who is feeling the same way. The key is being able to put up the mirror and talk to yourself with that

Starting point is 00:19:29 same compassion and say, Hey, it's okay that I'm a little bit nervous. This means something to me. I want to perform well, but I do feel prepared and I do know that I'm good enough and I do know that I've earned the right to perform well at this meet. And if for any reason, it doesn't go exactly like, I hope that's okay too. I'm strong enough to make the adjustments and I'll learn from it. And I think being able to talk to yourself that way, coupled with the preparation during the unseen hours

Starting point is 00:19:57 is what would allow you to show up. And then you can fill in the blank, show up for a cross country meet, show up for a keynote, show up for a first date, like it doesn't matter, whatever you're going to show up for, if you've already, you know, laid the foundation with that type of self-talk, then you're much more likely to perform at a high level and not get frazzled or rattled. Like, I know every time I step on stage that there's no such thing as a perfect keynote. There's no such thing as a perfect

Starting point is 00:20:24 basketball game. In the history of the game, no two teams have played where neither team has missed a shot, neither team turned the ball over or neither team committed a foul. Basketball is an imperfect game and keynote speaking is an imperfect craft. So I let myself off the hook in advance

Starting point is 00:20:39 and say don't worry about perfection. Just focus on serving the audience to the best of your ability. Make sure you are fully prepared and have done your due diligence and have rehearsed, but be fully present and fully available to add value to their lives and do that to the best of your ability. And then whatever happens happens. And just relieving that pressure of not thinking that I have to step on stage and be flawless because I am a flawed human being is helped me tremendously. Yeah, so I think that's another great lead into where I want to take this in both books. And you've conveyed this already in our discussion.

Starting point is 00:21:18 You talk about this power of choice. And for those who aren't familiar with our podcast and might be listening to it for the first time. Every Friday, I do a solo podcast, which is almost like having to do a keynote every single week, but this last week, I did it on the importance of microchoises. Because I think we live our lives so often on autopilot and we're oblivious to these decisions that we make, whether it's lifestyle choices, eating, sleep, whatever it may be, time that we're spending in relationships,

Starting point is 00:21:53 but it's those micro choices, I think, that really determine the outcome of our lives. And I loved in your book this saying that you said that you have to control the controllables. And I was hoping that you could unpack that, but through this lens of choice. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, control the controllables. I'm a big believer that when you brush everything else away, that there are only two things in this world, we have 100% control over 100% of the time. And that is our own effort and our own attitude. Now, I do realize, and I don't want this to be a game of verbal semantics, you can take effort and attitude and mix them together, and you have preparation, which we've already talked about.

Starting point is 00:22:36 You are in control of your preparation. You take effort and attitude, you mix them together, you can get enthusiasm. You are in control of how much enthusiasm you bring to the table in any situation. But those are really spokes off of the same wheel. Ultimately, it just comes down to effort and attitude. And for me, when I can stay hyper focused on giving my best effort and having my best attitude, and I can learn to appropriately disregard everything else, the things outside of my control, it allows me to perform at a higher level. And once again outside of my control, it allows me to perform at a higher level. And once again, coupled that with, it allows me to enjoy whatever I'm doing

Starting point is 00:23:11 at a higher level. When we focus too much on the things that are outside of our control, then it diminishes the negatively impacts the things that are in our control. Just having a level of acceptance that most things going on in the world are well beyond our own control, leaning into that is actually very, very helpful. On some level, it's kind of surrendering to the fact that the world's going to do what the world's going to do. I do not control what is going on around me. I don't control circumstances and events. I don't control what people say. I don't control what people do, but I always control how I choose to respond to those things. And I want to be very thoughtful and intentional

Starting point is 00:23:50 in how I respond. I don't want my responses to be an emotional knee jerk reaction, an automatic default, if you will. And I think that's a position. And I don't say this through judgment. I say this through compassion because I was let that other group. I think people think it's an automatic that when certain things happen, they don't have any choice in how they respond, but I want to let them know that they absolutely do, that they, if they can take a deep breath, have some level of

Starting point is 00:24:14 acceptance that what's happening is what's happening and then be thoughtful in their response, they'll see their life change immediately. And that's one of the most important choices that we make. And just so your listeners don't think, I live in La La Land or I've lost my marbles. Well, I'm by no means saying that everything that goes on in the world is to your liking. And I'm not saying it's your preference. And I'm not even saying that some of the things

Starting point is 00:24:37 that happen in this world are good. I mean, we've seen recently with some tragedies, there's some awful stuff that happens in this world. But I want folks to know that those things, those isolated incidences are outside of our control and we get to choose how to respond to them. And coming up with a thoughtful and intentional response in the face of really challenging adversity is not easy to do. That's the other disclaimer I want to make. I'm by no means saying that this is easy, but I'm just saying it is within your power. And for me, it's been life-changing, making the choice to be much more thoughtful not only of my work and what I teach, but in my own life's philosophy.

Starting point is 00:25:27 And let me say this, and I hope I alluded to it earlier, with everything I'm sharing with you right now in this awesome conversation, and everything I share on stage, everything I've put in both books, I'm not speaking from a place of mastery. I'm still on the path. I'm still working on all of this stuff.

Starting point is 00:25:43 This stuff is challenging to me. You better believe that if I'm hit with some path. I'm still working on all of this stuff. This stuff is challenging to me. You better believe that if I'm hit with some massive adversity later this afternoon after we record this, it will not be easy for me to respond thoughtfully and intentionally. But just because it's not easy, it doesn't mean I'm not capable of it. So I'm still gonna do the best I can with what I have

Starting point is 00:26:00 where I am. And I hold myself fully responsible. I have an attitude of extreme ownership of all of my responses. And my goal as I continue to get older and hopefully wiser and more mature is to be much more consistent with having thoughtful and intentional responses.

Starting point is 00:26:17 And that starts with controlling the controllables. I love it. And I'm gonna take this down one further pillar of choice. And in your new book, you start out by talking about stress at work and how a natural it can be. And it's interesting because interview after interview, I'm doing these days, the topics of chronic loneliness, people feeling hopeless, helpless. It just keeps coming up time and time again. And I recently read this book by Dr. Cara Fitzgerald called Younger You. And in it, she is really talking about,

Starting point is 00:26:54 you've got this fixed chronological age, but you can improve your bioage. But 25% of your bioage is determined by how much stress the body is under primarily through cortisol. And it was interesting. Her research found that life expectancy in most developed nations is on the decline. But more alarming is that 80% of people spend 20% of their life dealing with a chronic condition, which most of the time is caused by stress. So through this lens of choice, you point out that stress is a choice. Why is that

Starting point is 00:27:36 and what can a listener do to alleviate it? Well, it piggybacks off of what we were just talking about. The reason I believe wholeheartedly that stress is a choice is, I believe that stress does not come from the events and circumstances and what people say and what people do. It comes from our resistance to those things or our perspective of those things or how we choose to internalize them. No matter what you say next, I have no control over what you're going to say next. And if you chose to say something demeaning or diminishing to me, you chose to say something that, and most occurrences would would cause me to be upset to get angry or what have you. I have to realize that all you're saying

Starting point is 00:28:17 are words. You literally just have air coming out of your mouth. There is nothing inherently stressful about that. The stress comes from my interpretation of what you say. And if I allow myself to internalize what you say to me, and then I allow that to trigger some previous traumas that I've had and allow me to go down the path of having some negative self-talk, that's what ultimately causes the stress. It's not from the event, it's from the resistance to the event. So the way that we lower stress is by lowering that resistance, which means we accept, we surrender to what is and say, yes, what you may say might not be my preference. I might not like it.

Starting point is 00:28:53 I might not agree, but I don't have any control over it. So what you said is what you said. And I'm going to choose a response that allows me to move forward and improve my situation. And as I said before, this is not easy to do. And I'm not naive to the fact that especially when it comes to stress, we can look at a spectrum. But having a little bit of traffic and you're a couple minutes late to a meeting might be on the lower end of the stress spectrum, whereas dealing with a two-year global pandemic that has had massive mental health and economic ramifications,

Starting point is 00:29:25 like that's probably on the other side. But in both of those scenarios, resisting is futile. It doesn't matter how angry you get when you're sitting in traffic. It doesn't matter how you whitenuckle the steering wheel, how many times you honk your horn, how many times you give someone the finger. It's not changing the traffic. So all you're doing is punishing yourself by allowing that to increase your stress. And as you said, give yourself a lethal dose of cortisol when you can simply accept the fact that I don't control that these cars are in my way. Almost laugh it off.

Starting point is 00:29:56 Something I remind myself of all the time is it's not the universe's job to conspire to please me. Like it's not that the universe's job to make sure that I always get what I want. I always can go where I want to go untethered. No, the world just does what the world does. It's my job to adjust to that. And the same thing can be applied to the pandemic. I know there's a spectrum of some people have been very personally affected by it.

Starting point is 00:30:22 Lost loved ones, been furloughed, gone bankrupt, whatever, and then there's other folks that maybe it hasn't been as direct, but it's still weighing on all of us and we have to choose how do we wanna respond to that? Making the choice to be less stressed in any given situation is not easy. I mean, I think it's probably one of the two things

Starting point is 00:30:43 that I find most challenging at this current stage in my life. And the other is just being in the present moment. But that's also one of the ways that we lower stress is by focusing on the present moment and not getting distracted by the past, not dragging that baggage with us and not getting anxious about the future, but learning how to just be in the moment, I found coupled with an acceptance of what's going on is one of the best remedies for lowering stress. Yeah, it's interesting. You bring that up. One of my favorite episodes I've ever recorded was with my Naval Academy classmate Chris Cassidy. And if you're not familiar with them, Chris is a highly decorated Navy SEAL who went on to become the chief astronaut.

Starting point is 00:31:22 And our whole discussion that I had with him was all around what made him so successful. And he said it was this ability that he learned at the Naval Academy and then going through Buds, being a seal, and then through the astronaut training of how important it was to be present in every single moment in life. And he alluded to it in this way.

Starting point is 00:31:44 He goes, right now as I'm recording this podcast, this is the most important thing to me. If all of a sudden my fire alarm goes off, unfortunately, the podcast isn't no longer gonna be it. But he said, that's what allowed me in those combat situations, or he had a spacewalk with the other astronaut who was doing the spacewalk

Starting point is 00:32:03 with him had water starting to collect in his mask. And he remembers going to get him, but he doesn't remember anything about how he got him back onto the spacecraft, except that he had practiced it so much that it didn't matter. It just kind of happened on auto play that he was able to just take control. And I think that's a really good lesson. But I think now that we're talking about that, I want to jump to chapter three of your book because it's really about what I was just discussing, which is preparation, but something in there that I love was you use this term, irrational optimism. And I was hoping you could unpack that a little bit.

Starting point is 00:32:52 On some level, I do believe that with any characteristic, there is always some genetic coding and some genetic wiring in our DNA that might lend any of us to be more predisposed to certain characteristics. And I do believe that I'm wired to skew more towards being positive, to be more energetic, to be more optimistic. And for me, similar to discipline, optimism is also a choice, though. It's making the choice to believe that things will work out and to believe that better days are ahead. And that really just comes down to a belief. This is a preference of mine. So whether things are going well or things are really in dire straits, either way, I always believe that they'll work out. And just as importantly, I believe I have the power

Starting point is 00:33:33 to have some influence over how those things work out. Based on everything we've talked about so far, based on my ability to be thoughtful in my responses, based on the preparation that I do during the unseen hours, I believe can make those things better. So yeah, I think my optimism comes partially from some genetic wiring and what was modeled for me as a child.

Starting point is 00:33:52 My father's one of the most optimistic people I've ever met, but it also comes down to making that decision. And part of optimism, people often get confused. Optimism is not this concept of toxic positivity where you're naive to your surroundings and you're just putting on a fake clown mask and pretending to smile and pretending that everything's going to be okay. Optimism is couched with realism of saying that yeah, I understand right now things are really tough and that the struggle is real and there's adversity all around us, but I do believe

Starting point is 00:34:22 that things will get better. And here's why I believe they'll get better. So that's how I choose to look at every single situation. And very similar to Dippa discipline, optimism is a trait that is improved with practice. And if you find that your natural wiring is differently than mine, where you're naturally somewhat pessimistic, naturally cynical, naturally always playing the devil's advocate of why something couldn't work, just realize that they might be unconscious responses at present, but that you can change those, that you can always evaluate any situation, take a deep breath, and you can choose

Starting point is 00:34:57 which side you want to look at. I mean, it's the old historical is the glass half empty or glass half full. If you look hard enough for negativity, if you look hard enough for reason things can't work, if you want to be pessimistic and cynical, the world gives you no shortage of reasons to be able to do that. And I'm not even saying those things aren't valid. I'm just saying you can choose to look at something else,

Starting point is 00:35:19 and that doesn't mean you ignore those things. It's simply your choice to look at that. And the pandemic is a perfect example. I mean, I don't think anyone that argue that the last two years globally speaking have been a very trying time for a lot of people. But you can choose what part of that you want to focus on. Do you want to focus on heavily on the mental health issues, the economic ramifications, your own personal business, or do you you wanna focus on some things that the pandemic has brought to light?

Starting point is 00:35:47 I know a lot of people that have significantly increased their self-care during the pandemic, like they have put more time into eating well and working out and going for walks and prioritizing their sleep than they ever did before. I know plenty of people that have highly prioritized family time and getting together with family dinners. I know people of people that have highly prioritized family time and getting together with family dinners. I know people that because we've all been forced to do so much

Starting point is 00:36:10 work remotely, they're much more cognizant of screen time and a found ways to lessen that so that we're not tethered to our devices. There are some things that if we choose to look at them have come out of the pandemic that hopefully we will all carry with us moving forward whenever this mess is completely behind us. And that's kind of an optimistic approach to looking at everything that's been transpiring. What's interesting, I think this figure actually came from your book. I've been reading so much. I hope this is where I got it, but it was that the average millennial is looking at their phone 153 times per day, which when you think about that, it's really mind blowing because that's the average.

Starting point is 00:36:49 So think about the upper end of that. Well, I thought this topic of rational optimism was pretty interesting because a few months ago, I interviewed Claude Silver, she's the chief heart officer for VaynerX. Vayner was dealing with all kinds of toxic positivity issues and she came up with this emotional optimism as a way to help cure it through her role as the Chief Heart Officer. So I think it's interesting how both of those kind of dovetail into each other.

Starting point is 00:37:17 That's one of the reasons I wanted to cover it. In my upcoming book, which comes out later this summer, I have a chapter that coincided with your chapter five. I call it how do you achieve the zone of optimal anxiety? And I do it through a very similar lens that you cover where you talk about the Yerks stock dots and curve. And it's interesting because I was interviewing NASCAR driver Jesse O'Eige and I asked him because you would think in a racecar is one of the things that you've really got to control this and I said, well, how do you achieve optimal anxiety in the race car? And I love to say answer. He said, you have to be on the edge without going over the edge.

Starting point is 00:37:57 And I was hoping from the work that you do, this is a concept that I think many athletes understand, but it's something that can be applied so much both in your personal life and in your career. Absolutely. I mean, when we look at any trait, too much of anything can be very detrimental and having nothing in a certain area can also be detrimental. So it's kind of like the three bears. You want to find that optimal range in the middle. And there's a reason we have things like fear and anxiety.

Starting point is 00:38:28 I mean, ultimately, we have those biologically to keep us safe. It's in your best interest before you cross the street to have a little bit of fear that you're going to get hit by a car, which is why you look both ways before you cross the street. Now, if you have to look both ways 50 times or you don't even leave your house because you're afraid you're going to get hit by a car, then that becomes paralyzing. That's not going to be good for anyone. But if you just go wandering out in the middle of the street without ever looking because you have zero fear or zero anxiety, you're going to eventually

Starting point is 00:38:56 get hit by a car. So we need some level of that just to keep us sharp. This dovetails nicely over what we were talking about at the beginning of the conversation. I want to have a little bit of nerves and a little bit of butterflies before I take the stage. That's what keeps me sharp. That's what keeps my emotions to a heightened level. That's what reminds me that this means something to me, that this is bigger than me,

Starting point is 00:39:19 and I'm doing this to be in service of others. And I care so much about my craft and delivering for others. But yeah, of course I want it to go well. It's finding that optimal level and staying within that range. So never getting so casual and callous that you don't care at all, but never getting to the point that you're so anxious and fearful and worried that it literally paralyzes you, you want to find something in the middle.

Starting point is 00:39:42 And I love that analogy of you kind of want to go to the edge, but don't go over. I used to say that all the time with the players I would work with to say, look, my job is to take you to the edge of the cliff when it comes to your comfort zone. It's not my job to push you over. I don't ever want to do that, but I want to take you right to that edge.

Starting point is 00:39:59 And the cool part is, as you condition yourself, that edge will slowly start to move. Like you'll develop a slightly higher tolerance for your ability to take on anxiety and fear and so forth. You'll be able to wrestle with those things more effectively. So your edge will progressively move forward, but you still want to do everything you can to get to that edge and live there.

Starting point is 00:40:22 I'm going to bring this back to your Washington DC heritage. I had a friend of mine, Sean Springs, you probably know who that is. Like for the Washington Redskins on the podcast, and we were talking about what was it that made him become the cornerback that he was and such an elite one. And I'm just setting up the second part of your book through this lens. I had Dr. Michelle Seager on the show a couple weeks ago. She's a behavioral scientist at the University of Michigan. And she just wrote this book called The Joy Choice.

Starting point is 00:40:55 And I think one of the most profound things that she says in the book is that we have been conditioned and taught how to start and stop but not sustain. And I thought I would use that lead in because it's really the heart of the book about why sustaining is so vital to our success. Well, I mean, if you look kind of chronologically over our lives, we probably spend more time in the sustained portion of our lives than we do when the actual come up or the actual climbing of that now. And I remember vividly back when I was in the basketball training space and I was at

Starting point is 00:41:33 an event where there was a bunch of NBA rookies who had just recently been drafted and a veteran player said to them and he said this with a smile kind of tongue and cheek. We just said, hey, congratulations on making the NBA. I know this has been for most of you a lifelong dream. Since you were first able to walk or dribble a basketball and it's finally come to fruition. You finally reached the pinnacle and finally reached your ultimate dream. But I want to tell you that was the easy part. The hard part is actually staying in the NBA. Getting there is easy, staying there is hard. And of course, I mean, he said that with a smile because there is nothing easy about getting to the NBA and everybody took that

Starting point is 00:42:08 in kind and they knew what he meant. But they understood that just because we've arrived here, does not guarantee we will stay here. At the time, he gave that talk. The average length of an NBA career was three and a half years. That's a pretty short tenure, especially when you look at most jobs. Most of us have working careers that span 30 to 40 years. So for years to be three and a half years. That's a pretty short tenure, especially when you look at most jobs, most of us have working careers that span 30 to 40 years. So for years to be three and a half years, at this thing you've spent your entire life trying to achieve, that certainly raises some eyebrows. As a side note, certainly makes what a guy like LeBron James is currently doing, that much more remarkable that he's been able to sustain excellence for two decades now.

Starting point is 00:42:45 LeBron has spent more of his life in the NBA than he has spent out of the NBA, which is again, just incredible. The impetus for writing Sustain Your Game was, let's take a look at the things that undermine our ability to sustain excellence, sustain high performance, and sustain film. But if we're going to put so much into the unseen hours and preparation and discipline to climb that mountain and reach the top. Then let's make sure we can stay there if that's what we choose to do. I'm fascinated by that. And I'll also say I write books based on what it is that I'm going through in my own life at the time. I write books based on what it is that I need to get better at. Like I write the books that I need to read myself. So the reason I wrote Razure Game was as I made this career change from basketball training to keynote speaking,

Starting point is 00:43:32 I wanted to try to figure out what do I need to do to optimize my performance and become the best keynote speaker I'm capable of. And while I'll always be on the climb, I don't ever think I've arrived. I certainly don't think I'm done or complete as a speaker. But once I reached a certain level, then I started saying, okay,

Starting point is 00:43:49 well, what do I need to do to stay here? That if I want keynote speaking and writing to be what I do for the next 30 or 40 years, what do I need to work towards mastery of to make sure that happens? And that was the reason for writing, sustain your game. And that was when I uncovered that the things

Starting point is 00:44:05 that tend to undermine our ability to sustain performance, our stress stagnation and burnout, that if you can find a way to manage, avoid or alleviate those three things, you greatly increase your chance of sustaining high performance and fulfillment for as long as you want. I think that's a great segue to a quote that you put in the book by Jerry Kelona, and I'm going to just read it, how are you complicit in creating the conditions of your life that you say you don't want? And that's such an important point because much of this sustaining of your momentum is brought

Starting point is 00:44:40 on by the conditions that you yourself bring about because of your life choices. And I think one of the things that we often do is it's those people around us who influence us so much and our behaviors. And that's why I loved in chapter 9 how you discuss expanding your circle and the world. I refer to this when I talk about it as being an outward inspire, but I thought maybe you could talk about this through the concept of Durant Circle. Absolutely. So I'm a huge believer that the quality of our outputs are heavily dictated by the quality of our inputs. So what we choose to read, watch, and listen to, what we choose to consume, who we choose to interact with or follow on social media, what we choose to read, watch, and listen to, what we choose to consume, who we choose to interact with or follow on social media, what we choose to watch on Netflix

Starting point is 00:45:29 or Hulu or Amazon Prime, and absolutely who we choose to invest our time with, heavily impacts our outputs, our mindset, our attitude, our mood, our perspective. So if you want to increase your outputs, if you want to think on a higher level, if you want to broaden your outputs, if you want to think on a higher level, if you want to broaden your perspective, if you want to raise your game, then you need to improve the quality of your inputs,

Starting point is 00:45:51 which means you need to start investing time with higher level thinkers and people with broader perspectives. You need to read, watch, and listen to stuff that educates you and engages you and then certainly entertain you. The more we can fix on this side, the more it will directly impact the other side. So for me, anytime I don't feel like my outputs

Starting point is 00:46:11 are at the level that I'm capable of producing, the first thing I do is hold myself 100% accountable. I don't blame complain or make excuses. I basically, as Jerry said in that quote, I hold myself responsible for how I've been complicit to what it is that I'm getting. And I go right back to the drawing board and say, okay, how can I shake up what I've been reading, watching, and listening to?

Starting point is 00:46:34 How can I invite higher level thinkers and folks with more expertise and experience into my inner circle so that that can help me raise that level of what I'm putting out? It works every single time as soon as you start to make these tweaks. Now, one important thing, and I talk about this in the book as well, this is not just about insulating myself, either with people or with content that I already know and I already believe I intentionally go out of my way to interact with people that see the world very differently than I do, whether we're talking politically, religiously, economically, what have you, I don't just read, watch and listen to things that I already know and I already

Starting point is 00:47:10 believe. That creates what's called a filter bubble. And that can be very dangerous to get caught in that. So I try to surround myself with people that challenge my point of view, that help me see blind spots, that have a different outlook on the world. Because each of us, we have to own the fact that each of us is inherently biased in the way we see the world. There's an old quote, and I don't remember who first said it, but the world isn't the way it is. It's the way you see it. That's our entire experience in life is based on this perspective we have.

Starting point is 00:47:39 And each one of our perspectives is biased based on how old we are, where we grew up, how we were parented, the experiences we had as children, the friends that we have, all of these things get us to see the world differently. And that really became obvious to me as I started traveling the world, not only for basketball events, but for speaking events. And I see that even geography plays a massive role in how we see the world. There are certain places in the United States that you can go to, and having grown up in that area, it will heavily encourage you to have certain political beliefs or certain religious beliefs.

Starting point is 00:48:14 Now, it doesn't guarantee it, and yes, you can find an exception to every rule. But you can say that if you grew up in this one town, you are most likely going to lean in a certain direction because that's what you were taught. That's what you saw at a very young age. That's what was modeled for you. Those were your inputs.

Starting point is 00:48:31 So now we can on some level almost predict your outputs. And I don't say that by making any assumptions and I don't say that even with an ounce of judgment. I just know that all of these things factor into how we see the world. And I want to be around people that see the world differently. Do either help me strengthen my own convictions or help shine a light on some things that were blind spots that I'm not aware of that maybe now I can actually view things

Starting point is 00:48:54 differently. Well, I appreciate you expanding on that. And we've covered the first two sections of your book. And I just wanted to end the interview talking about the last section. And in chapter 11, you discuss the importance of engaging the process and I love how you do it by bringing up James Clear, one of my favorite authors of Atomic Habits. How is engaging the process different than trusting the process? I've always been fascinated by language and I feel every single word in the English language,

Starting point is 00:49:26 that's the only language I speak, carries an emotional connotation. Words make us feel different things. Someone could present a word and you and I could have very different feelings about that word, a very different emotional connotation. For me, there's a value in trust, but trust is also much more of a passive trait, whereas I look as engaging as something that I'm actually going to proactively do. I am involved in this. I am involved in the process of getting to where my North Star is, of becoming the person that I'm aiming to become.

Starting point is 00:49:58 This is not something I'm going to sit back and just let the process unfold. I'm going to be actively engaged and actively proactive in making these things come true. And for me, that's really the key, is getting clarity on who it is you're trying to become and where it is that you're trying to go. And once you have clarity on that, then figuring out the process. As you said earlier in the conversation,

Starting point is 00:50:20 these micro behaviors and micro steps and micro habits, what are the things I need to do on a daily basis that will increase the chance of me reaching that North Star? And whatever that process is, I want to be fully engaged in it. Mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually, if that's appropriate to your listeners, I want to be fully engaged in executing the process and the habits and the behaviors and the micro steps

Starting point is 00:50:43 needed to get there. And when you can do that and kind of to put a big red bow tie on everything we've been talking about, you combine all of that with a level of acceptance for what's going on. You become much more thoughtful in your response. You choose to respond in a favorable way. You focus on your preparation and what you do during the unseen hours. You learn how to talk to yourself with the same level of empathy and compassion that you would talk to a loved one.

Starting point is 00:51:09 You take all of that together and you make that part of the engagement of the process. And I tell you what, I know through first-hand experience, life becomes so much more fluid, but it also becomes so much more enjoyable. And yeah, and that's really where I am in this act in my life, and which is why I covered that in the book. Yeah, I really think it comes down to, you can trust the process,

Starting point is 00:51:34 but if you really want the process to work out, you've got to be intentional about it, and that's where engagement comes in. Well, Ellen, I did want to give you a chance to let the audience know if they want to learn more about you. How can they reach out to you? And I'll put this in the show notes as well. Awesome.

Starting point is 00:51:49 Well, this was such a fun conversation. You did a masterful job. Thank you so much. The easiest place to find me is alansteinjunior.com. I do have a supplemental site stronger team.com. And I'm very easily found on social media at Alenstein, Jr. Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter. And if you're looking for either book in any format, whether it's a e-book or Kindle hard copy paperback

Starting point is 00:52:12 or even an audio book, you can go to Amazon or Audible or anywhere that you get your books and audio books. If anyone wants to keep this conversation going, if you wanna ask a question, if you wanna even challenge anything that we talked about, I love engaging wi DM on Instagram or on link about getting back to peo

Starting point is 00:52:31 Well, and thank you so much and congratulations on two so much. This was so much with your book. I can't w enjoyed that interview and wanted to thank Hatchit giving me the honor and privilege of interviewing him on the Passion Struck podcast. Links to all things Alan will be in the show notes on PassionStruck.com.

Starting point is 00:52:52 Please use our website links if you buy any of the books from the authors that we profile here on the show. Any of the proceeds go to supporting the show and making it free for our listeners. Videos are on YouTube at JohnRMiles, and advertiser deals and discount codes are in one community location at passionstruck.com, slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. I'm at JohnRMiles, both on Twitter and Instagram,

Starting point is 00:53:16 and you can also find me on LinkedIn. And if you wanna know how I book these amazing guests, it's because of my network. Go out there and build yours before you need it. You're about to hear a preview of the PassionStruck podcast interview I did with Rear Admiral Dan L. Barrett who spent over 30 years in the Navy. While on ActiveDuty, she served as the director of current operations at US Cyber Command, the Navy Cyber Security Division Director and Deputy Chief Information Officer on the chief of naval operation staff.

Starting point is 00:53:45 And we discuss her new book, Rock the Boat, and Brace Change, Encourage Innovation, and be a successful leader. There's going to be failures. And you have to teach people how to fail with grace and to look at failures in an opportunity to learn. And I think that the way that people look at work today as an individual society is that you're rewarded and promoted based on your work. When the reality isn't a lot of places in the world, the nail that sticks up gets hammered, right? The fee for this show is that you share it with family and friends when you find something

Starting point is 00:54:17 interesting or useful. If you know someone who's really needing some advice on behavioral change and share this episode with Alan Stein Jr. with them. The greatest compliment that you can give the show is to share it with those who you care about. In the meantime, do your best. The practice will be here on the show so that you can live what you listen.

Starting point is 00:54:36 And until next time, live life passion struck. you

Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Alan Stein Jr. on Peak Performance: How to Create It and Keep It EP 179

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