Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Andrew Marr On Living With a Never Quit Mentality While Overcoming the Wounds of War EP 95

Episode Date: January 4, 2022

Andrew Marr is a retired Green Beret, co-founder of the Warrior Angels Foundation, and author of "Tales from the Blast Factory." He is also featured in the new documentary "Quiet Explosions." In this Pasion Struck podcast episode, Andrew sits down with John R. Miles to discuss his never-quit mentality overcoming the wounds of war and his traumatic brain injuries. The two veterans discuss: Andrew's 2013 tour of duty in Afghanistan and his underlying medical issues upon returning home. From personal experience, the two both talk about the long-term effects of Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) and how it impacted both of their lives. Why navigating the VA is so difficult and their advice for doing so. How Andrew Marr met Dr. Mark Gordon, a neuroendocrinologist, and how they were able to tell their story on the Joe Rogan podcast. How Dr. Gordon uses a personalized approach focused on functional medicine and hormone treatment for TBI recovery How the Warrior Angels Foundation is now helping hundreds of veterans and active duty service members recover from Traumatic Brain Injury. Are You a Veteran Who is Suffering From Traumatic Brain Injury or PTSD? The Warrior Angels Foundation provides answers, hope, and healing that returns proven leaders back to life by delivering brain injury prevention and care through proven nutraceuticals, personalized treatment protocols for U.S. Military Service Members and Veterans, Traumatic Brain Injury education, and research for all who are affected. WAF sponsors individualized assessments and personalized treatment protocols that pinpoint – and, more importantly, treat – the underlying condition for U.S. Service Members and Veterans who have sustained a Traumatic  Brain  Injury (TBI) while in the line of duty. WE NOW HAVE PASSION STRUCK PODCAST STARTER PACKS New to this channel and the passion-struck podcast? Check out our starter packs which are our favorite episodes grouped by topic, to allow you to get a sense of all the podcast has to offer. Go to https://passionstruck.com/starter-packs/. Learn more about me: https://johnrmiles.com. SHOW NOTES 0:00 Introduction to Andrew Marr 3:49 How John and Andrew first met 7:02 The Green Beret mission and how it differs 12:48 Why Andrew became a Green Beret 15:54 Health impacts from his 2013 Afghanistan Tour 27:11 What led Andrew to find his own cure for his TBI 34:49 How he discovered an endocrine link to Traumatic Brain Injury 42:30 Why he founded the Warrior Angels Foundation 49:07 How he became a guest on Joe Rogan Experience 52:34 The foundation's treatment program 58:17 Suicide awareness FOLLOW ANDREW MARR AND WARRIOR ANGELS FOUNDATION *Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/warriorangelsfdn/ *Website: https://warriorangelsfoundation.org/ *Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WarriorAngelsFoundation FOLLOW JOHN R. MILES ON THE SOCIALS * Twitter: https://twitter.com/Milesjohnr * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/johnrmiles.c0m * Medium: https://medium.com/@JohnRMiles​ * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/john_r_miles * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/JohnMiles * Blog: https://passionstruck.com/blog/ * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/passion_struck_podcast ====== ABOUT JOHN ====== John R. Miles leads a global movement called Passion Struck. He is passionate about being the catalyst who helps individuals expand into the most excellent version of themselves, unlocking the most no regrets life possible. He is a combat veteran, multi-industry CEO, successful entrepreneur, top podcast host, and author who is helping people worldwide regain their passion. John is one of the most-watched, quoted, and followed high-performance trainers globally, and his leadership acumen spans more than two decades. He's founded or co-founded more than half a dozen successful start-ups, was a Fortune 50 CIO and CISO, mentors rising entrepreneurs, and invests in successful tech ventures. He graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy, where he learned vital leadership skills and was a multi-sport Division 1 athlete. Like this? Please join me on my new platform for peak performance, life coaching, self-improvement, intentional living, and personal growth: https://passionstruck.com/ and sign up for our email list.      

coming up next on the Passion Start podcast. So what were the solutions out there that we wanted to go after and how could we create an environment where we could bring that to market, so to speak. And then that led us to Gordon, then that led us to the book, and then the book led to the film, and there's a steamrolled like that. It wasn't this brand design.

It was just purpose-driven, purpose-led with the only thing that guided us was doing what we felt was the right things to do. Welcome Visionaries, creators, innovators, entrepreneurs, leaders, and growth seekers of all types, two of the Passion Struck Podcasts. Hi, I'm John Miles, a peak performance coach, multi-industry CEO, Navy Veteran, and Entrepreneur on a mission to make Ashent Co-Viral for millions worldwide. In each week, I do so by sharing with you an inspirational message and interviewing eye achievers from all walks of life

who unlock their secrets and lessons to becoming Ashent's truck. The purpose of our show is to serve you the listener. By giving you tips, tasks, and activities, you can use to achieve peak performance and for too much passion-driven life you have always wanted to have. Now let's become PassionStruck. Hello everyone and welcome back to the PassionStruck podcast. Thank you to all of you who come back to the show

every week to listen, learn, and grow. If you're new to the show or you're looking for an easy way to tell your friends about it, we now have episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes that are organized by topic. It helps new listeners get a taste of everything that we do here. Just visit passionstruck.com slash start to get started or help somebody else get started. And of course, I always appreciate it when you do that. Today, we have my friend Andrew Mar as our guest.

Andrew is a retired special forces brain bares, co-founder of the Warrior Angels Foundation, and the best-selling co-founder of the Warrior Angels Foundation, and the best-selling co-author of Tales from the Blast Factory, a brain injured special forces Green Beret's journey back from the brain. His book has been turned into an award-winning, full-featured documentary, titled Why It Explosions, Healing the Brain, which is from Emmy and Academy Award producers.

And on today's show, we discuss what is the exact role of a green beret and how is it different from other special forces? What was the driving reason that led him to becoming a green beret? Is 2013, Tour of Duty in Afghanistan, which turned out to be his last, and the significant physical and mental changes that occurred shortly after his return. His long path of navigating the veteran affairs and getting nowhere, which turned into his own personal journey to find a cure for what was happening to him. How through that journey, he met Dr. Mark Gordon,

who, through alternate health and functional medicine, altered the impact of his brain injuries. Through that personal experience, he founded the Warrior Angels Foundation, which has helped thousands of veterans also recover from traumatic brain injury. And lastly, we go into the backstory for how he got on the Joe Rogan podcast and how that show has had such a tremendous impact. Now, let's become Passion Struck.

Welcome to the Passion Struck podcast and I am so excited to welcome Andrew Marr to the show. Welcome, Andrew. It's honor to be here. Thanks, John. Yes, and you and I initially met actually via a Navy SEAL friend of mine, John McCaskill, who happened to see a movie that the book that you wrote was made about. And I got in touch with Miss Sheer,

who I think was the executive producer, who in turn told me about this great episode on Joe Rogan. And then I listened to the episode. And for me, being a veteran myself, it was one of the first times I heard another veteran explain exactly what I had been going through for years and years and years. And so after that, I think within a matter of hours I picked up the phone, called you and we had our first conversation. Yeah, and I'm so grateful that we did and it never ceases to amaze me the

response that those those podcasts that Joe has gotten and why I'm so grateful for them because we've been able to kind of communicate the sequence of events that when you're going through it you think you're the only one but on the other side of it now you know and once we, you think you're the only one, but on the other side of it now, in what's once we realize, like, oh, you know what, this isn't special or specific to me. So let's really hunker in and think about

what that entire process look like and how we can best communicate it. Because I'm willing to bet the mortgage that there is an inordinate amount of other people, veteran military, non-military, whatever, who are suffering in the same exact way and are completely unaware of what is at the root cause of that and in more importantly, what can be done about it.

And that's really been what our mission has really been all about is providing an alternative that people did not know even existed. And, you know, we always stressed, don't take my word for anything. But through now, through the resources that we have out there, you can go and you can do your own research

and you can come up with the answers for yourself. But there's tasks now that we need lead to what we were told was, there's just this one way, nope, no, there's not. That's what the book was about, that's what the film was about, that's what people like me and you speaking about, whether it's on a podcast or on the phone is all about, and that's why I'm just so excited to be on the show today

and really just connect with you, John. Well, I'm so happy you're here. And as I told you at the beginning of the show, I've had a number of veterans on the show, including a number of Navy SEALs, but you're the first person from the special operations community who I've had on from the Army. And I think maybe for the listeners, it might be good for them to understand community who I've had on from the Army. And I think maybe for the listeners,

it might be good for them to understand because each different special forces group really takes on a different mission. And can you outline for them what that mission is for the Green Brays and how it's different from others? Yeah, for sure. And I'll say that I am your initial Army special forces guy coming on because when I was on my team, you were never to say it was your first time for anything. So the

way we got around that was this is my initial go at something. So I'm just the initial one and I'm excited ecstatic to be the initial Green beret on the passion struck podcast. The biggest difference. We're green beret maker money and the team should come back, both with President Kennedy and one of the generals back in the day from the 60s, General Yarborough, when the headgear that we wore, which the green beret was illegal, and President Kennedy came down to visit the Green Bray's there at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. And General Yabro brought that to his attention

that the army had made the Green Bray's an illegal headgear, and they were wearing it anyway. And at that time, President Kennedy made it at a presidential citation, where, in fact, we could officially take on the Green Bray as our normal everyday headwear. So that's kind of a little story, a fun story about how the actual Green Bray came into fruition. But where we make our money is unconventional warfare. And you can think of that as guerrilla warfare.

And so really that is a small team. In this case, we have a special forces team, which is usually made up of 12 individuals. And their specialty of UW, guerrilla warfare, is to go behind enemy lines, link up with some type of indigenous resistance force, and be able to assess the situation on the ground and see how to best position that resistance force

to actually overthrow a government. So we work by, with and through indigenous forces to secure US interests, usually though, to replace one type of government with a pro-democratic pro-liberty government. And that is the big difference. So yes, we have the direct action capabilities and the different infill capabilities and everything else, but where US Special Forces is a true differentiator. Is that guerrilla warfare tactics at a conventional

warfare style and our recent engagement with Afghanistan clearly highlighted the benefits of having a force and assets that were able to accomplish a mission set like that. So go back to October of 2001 when you have a handful of ODAs there, essentially able to link up with the freedom fighters there in Afghanistan, Unites come together in a very decentralized manner and in a very short time period work with them to help to completely run the Taliban off 20 years ago, which I know is a source of a lot of people, but that's a good

that's a good way to kind of show that that skill set, that capability that Army Special Forces was made for was, I mean, we hit the ball out of the park on that one. And then politics and politicians come in like they usually do and mess things up. And that's maybe a different topic for a different show. Yes, well, I know several of the folks who actually were in that mission because they formed a whiskey company here called Horse Soldier

in St. Petersburg, number of the 12 strong from the movie, along with a few other green rays who were not in that operation, but served with them at one point or another. And I think one other thing that differentiates the green rays from other special forces is each and every member has to be a linguist.

So you are each trained in another language to be part of the team, which goes to the mission of working with the in-country people that you're assigned to support and help. Yes, yes. So with that, to add on to that, John, and the importance of that is that you have to have a good understanding of all the cultural nuances of any given area that you're going into. And so that was one of the things that, you know, the intent was that the language, immersion and the cultural immersion would bring to the team so they could they could better maneuver the battles face because they knew the different

ins and outs and the more aes of where they were at. So highly critical piece to being a Green Bray is that linguistic component to of it. Okay, and one final question on this before we kind of move on is, you know, I always ask anyone who does the Special Forces, what possessed you. You know, I told you my father at the beginning of the show was in the Special Forces and for him, when I asked him, why did he go for three con instead of just staying in the infantry, he said because they paid me $150 more a month.

So everyone has different reasons, but for you, what was that reason? I think when you get down to it, I had finished my undergrad. It was a college athlete, college football, and I identified as an athlete. The NFL wasn't calling, so I knew it was time to move somewhere else with my life, always felt compelled to serve and some capacity. And I wanted to test myself in combat. I wanted to go through a crucible and I wanted to test myself in combat. And when I looked at the different, and I knew special operations was where I wanted to go. I didn't necessarily know which niche that I wanted to go. So as I studied them all, Ring Brage just became more appealing to me as a, you know, initial entry point into it.

And the reason was because that they generally are a little bit more mature. So I was a little bit older when I entered the service. I was 25. And they're usually a little bit more mature. And, you know, the unconventional warfare really spoke to me. And I thought that, you know, I had some talents and skill sets that would be utilized there, you know, well. And so I took it to it like a fish and water. But that was really it. It was, hey, I, we're at war. I want to test myself. I want to, I want to provide, you know, benefit. I'm looking for other individuals that are on the same level as I am. And then it was okay, which, which one of these do I think I can best, you know, surf. And it was one of the best decisions of my life, because day in and day out, I got to be around the absolute best that this country had to offer. And what that afforded me was the opportunity to bring my A-game every day, because nothing less than your A-game was tolerated, especially when you're at the high-stakes game of life and death.

And so I love the stakes that were there and the type of, you know, the weird type of individuals that that brought together on that unified frontman. There was just, there's no other way to reproduce that than what was there. So those are all the driving factors and components that led me kind of down that pathway. Okay, and I remember from our initial conversation, sometime around 2013, you were on deployment in Afghanistan and in almost every single day, you were involved in combat situations.

And doing what your job was, you were exposed to a lot of different explosions and the concussion waves that they result in. So can you tell the audience, when you came off this tour in Afghanistan and you came home and you started realizing that something inside of you had changed? Yeah, so going back that was what turned out to be my last appointment. It was in 2013 and it was in board act Afghanistan. Like you had said, it was, 2013 and it was in Bordeca, Afghanistan. Like you had said, it was physically and psychologically challenging. And yes, it was life with combat just through the entirety of that deployment. I mean, a true operator's dream. And like you said, in and around countless explosions. And then,

And like you said, in and around countless explosions, and then, you know, to just get to that point, it was in and around, it's hard to quantify, but guys have been around literally thousands of low-level blasts over the course of their career, and I was no different. It's, you know, to become proficient in something, you do it until you can do it without thinking about it, and being specializing in explosive blasts

to be a senior preacher on the team is no different. So then throw that into the combat situation where you, again, you're in close proximity to danger-close munitions being dropped, RPGs, and everything else, well, it kind of becomes a little bit of a breeding ground for a difficult environment for the brain to thrive and recover it. And so I didn't, I was only knocked unconscious in my entire career once and it was brief and I'm

talking like less than three to five seconds, but I came to and I had absolutely no understanding of where I was or who I was. I knew that the sun was out and now it was completely pitch black. And so I thought maybe I'm in a building and maybe there's an earthquake or something. And that was kind of my first thoughts before, you know, RPG started coming back in and small arms, PKM fire starts wasn't by again. And then that just triggered the natural response and I was able to go back to work to doing the things

that have been woven into my essential nervous system. So thinking really wasn't required at that point because I had done so much to get to that level of proficiency. And after that mission, I didn't think anything of it. I survived. No big deal. It was kind of back to work as usual. And I didn't suffer any noticeable consequences for the rest of that deployment. I say noticeable because I wasn't aware of any. And again, I wasn't in an environment where I was having to really challenge my cognitive abilities because I wasn't learning new things. It wasn't like the problem sets that I was being presented were really something new.

There's different costumes, different locations, different players, but it's the same thing over and over again, just played out a little bit differently. So I didn't have to really think too much about it. So I didn't notice if there was anything going wrong there cognitively, I didn't notice it. There could have been, but because I was able to rely on years of hard work to be to that point, it's hard to say.

But it wasn't until about John, I would say three to four months after I got back from that deployment that I did started to notice and have new symptoms that I had never experienced before. And up until this point, I am the epitome of what you would think as a healthy individual. I'd never had any real physical problems, never had any psychological issues, and of course special operations goes through this very strenuous process to identify and cultivate individuals who are psychologically resilient to go along with the physical resiliency. And so what I first started experiencing, which was odd to me as a 33 year old individual

who was married to the woman of his dreams that I wasn't still am and incredibly attracted to, was a complete and lack loss of libido. So unable to perform in that matter whatsoever. And again, that was the first time in my life that I ever experienced anything like that. And I thought, wow, that's odd. Well, we just came off a very intense trip.

I think it's just gonna take some time from my body to come back online. So I'll just keep charging through. Well, that also makes things difficult at the house. When all of a sudden, you're not able to perform that way, especially after being gone on a long deployment. And so my wife's, her response as well, either I think it's that you don't love me anymore or you found someone else.

And so now I'm thinking, man, I, I gotta put up with this nonsense. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm unable to get it out unable to perform and now my wife's you know, thinking there's something else going on, which couldn't be further from the truth. But then that kind of steam rolled into a loss of energy. And it's so easy just to gloss over that and say, I didn't have the energy that I used to have. But I'm talking about out of nowhere, man, unable to have the energy to get through the day and do anything of benefit or value. And again, I was like, there's no outward signs that are pointing to that, anything's changed. I haven't missed a, I'm not missing a limb, I'm not missing an eye, there's no physical, you know, there's not a scratch on me. And all of a sudden, you

know, now I'm just having a difficult time gathering myself to get up and face the day and do anything productive. And that never issue, always been a high energy guy, highly motivated, defined by a vision of the future and going after that vision with full force. And that started to then steamroll into having some psychological issues. So what I mean by that is I started to have anxiety attacks, panic attacks. And this is complete new territory and new terrain for me because at that point in my life, I thought very ignorantly that that was just a weak minded individuals problem. And, you know, what do you mean, anxiety?

I just lived through all these things there. There's nothing to be anxious about. There's nothing to panic about. And yet you're so you're out and it didn't matter if I was in public. It didn't matter if I was in the weight room, it didn't matter if I was in front of my children. I would have these panic attacks come on, start hyperventilating. You get this like neuro tunnel vision and you feel very dizzy. And then like your heart rate accelerates and it feels like there's like something trying to come up like a fist through your chest and through your stomach and then it

becomes very difficult to breathe and then I would just start flying uncontrollably like unprovoked nothing no reason to do that and then just out like gun, I said, I'll let it run its course. Nothing I could do. I was a witness to this going on in my own body, which was shocking at the time. So that started to progress and happen on a somewhat routine basis. And then I started to become flagged

by this overwhelming sense of depression. Again, I had absolutely zero reason in my life to be depressed. I wasn't hung up on anything I had done operationally, wanted to continue to do it and live that life. There just wasn't anything like that. And again, I said, I'm married to the one of my dreams. I have the job. It gives me a sense of purpose and fulfillment. We have the family we always wanted. But yet here I am, and I'm waking up.

And the best way to describe it is feeling as if the team, my team, I did something that led to a number of them to their death, or that my family was just killed in a car accident. That's what it felt like, and it wasn't going away. So that blanket just washed over me. And it's not something that you just say, hey, man, I just used to not have this feeling anymore. It was overwhelming, and I was having this internal battle inside once I was always been a very positive minded person. And now I have this new founded negativity and gloom. I in the book, we talked about like an ominous dark cloud just came and it's set up shop. And so now I'm starting to think that I'm losing my mind because I'm like Jesus, man. Like there's no, I don't know. There's nothing wrong with me. And I'm having all of these

problems. And so the only thing that I knew at that point to do, which created our, there was any short term benefit was to drink. And that's the only thing that would stop a pan attack. And man, I started drinking from sun up to sundown. And it got so bad that I was I was drinking and driving just recklessly. And, but it didn't dawn on me like the switch to say, Hey, dude, bad idea. Not only are you endangering yourself, all these innocent people around you, you're putting in danger because you're driving while intoxicated. No, man, that switch wasn't even there. It wasn't even something to toggle between. It wasn't even in my forefront to think,

oh, is this a decision that I should go away to pros and cons? Of course, I know not to do that, but that was the state that I was in. That was the amount of cognitive impairment that I was dealing with. And it wasn't until, I guess I did have a brief moment after a number of those times where I was like, oh my god, I am going to put people at risk. And what are the promises you make to yourself when you're on the team is I will never do anything to put my team at risk.

And at that point, I had become a liability. And I didn't know why or what the problem was. So that's the first time that I raised my hand and I said, hey, man, I need some help. Here's how I went from what the person that everybody knows, which at that point in my career, I would earn my place at the table. I was respected.

I had done enough to where when I talk people listened, so it wasn't that like anybody was deaf. I think what I had to say, my unit bent over backwards to try to be supportive initially. And, but those, those, John, that's the first 60 days where I went for a man, this high performing individual to like, life has come off the rails. And it didn't get me better from there,

but that was like the initial decline where I realized like something is not right and I'm not just bouncing back like I thought I would. Yeah, so your onset of symptoms and mind were a little bit different. Mind came on more gradually, but they overlap as we've talked about before, almost to a T. lap as we've talked about before, I'm almost too atte. And I remember this would have been, you know, I got out of the service sometime eventually around 2001, maybe 2002, three time frame. I'm starting to realize, you know, I have cognitive decline, I have memory issues, irritable, angry. I've got vertigo, I've got vestibular things going on.

And I go to my doctor and he immediately sends me to see a psychiatrist who then wants to put me on Lexapro and well butrin and a whole bunch of other things because they said this is all a mental thing. You know, at that point, we weren't even looking at PTSD or, or, and I tried to explain to them the TBI and it was just brushed off. So I ended up suffering for this for years and years and eventually went to a neurologist who, you know, I thought finally this neurologist is going to tell me what's going on. And he ran your EEGs, MRIs, CT scans, did a sleep test. Found I had sleep apnea, but said none of it is conclusive. Sent me to a neuropsych and coming out of that, she goes, the only thing I can tell is that you're just

depressed. And so, you know, then I hit another hurdle and, you know, at that point, I decided I'm finally going to go to the VA. And it took me literally, like, navigating the system because it's all protocol-based, like Like two years before I could finally see the TBI specialist at the Bay Pines Hospital and I finally get to this session with this VA doctor who I think is gonna have a profound impact on my life. And her first words to me is, why are you even contacting me?

If you had a TBI, it would have gotten better so many years ago, and these don't persist. And I said, well, actually, man, that's not what the CDC says. CDC says that there are 5.5 million people who have progressively worst symptoms over time. So, and also EEGs, MRI, CTs, unless they're using special technology in an MRI, don't pick up the majority of the concussion symptoms or TBI's that veterans have. And, you know, it was about that time, and I was just losing it that I heard about you and met you. Now, subsequent to that, I have now run into a group within the VA who actually does know what they're talking about. And it's the Polytraumat program at the Haley VA

where when I finally talked to Dr. Merritt there and the PA who came from special operations command, when I started going through my symptoms, they're like, you were like 99% of the special operators we see. But it's like, why in a system that's supposed to take care and understand when literally thousands of people have been reporting these symptoms, is it only now coming to light what's going on. And even with that, as we'll get into with the Warrior Angels Foundation, they are still using conventional Western medicine techniques to treat the patients, and they're not using functional medicine and more of a holistic approach to helping,

you know, what should be not only veterans, but it's athletes, it's people who might have gotten into a car rack, it's first responders, etc. So, I know long-winded thing, you and I are experiencing the same thing, we're having the same frustrations with the VA system. And it was at this point that you made a couple different discoveries. I think one is you watched a film called Pathway if I have it right. And through that, a number of connections were made and you eventually became acquainted to a Dr. Mark Borden. And maybe you can just talk about what transpired there.

Yeah, you know, just a number of sequence of events, you know, life through several curve balls, you know, took me a minute to get my bearings, but what came out of, you know, and again, John, to your point, the exact same thing. So in addition to the things that I've talked about, kind of with my symptom and topology, exactly the same thing. My cognitive abilities started to be depleted. My memory gone. A ability to go and pull out the correct vocabulary and use that, like talking everyday words,

didn't have it anymore. And then the kind of physical issue started with the headaches that led into migraine headaches, which went into blurry vision and then double vision and then just like you vertigo and vestibular and difficulty walking in a straight line. And where that got me was being forced to be medically retired from the army labeled with 30 plus disabilities. Every mood disorder you could think of and neuro-commitative

disorder and put on double-digit medications. And the exact same thing that happened. And I started to go to the literature, even in my constantly depleted and brain depleted state. I just said, well, listen, man, I've been around a lot of explosions and I haven't heard anybody talk about that. So maybe there's something to it. And I started to, on my own time, investigate and research the neuroendocrine system. And I did find there was a whole literature out there on it. And there was even a literature on blast-induced injuries in how that affected the neuroendocrine system. What I knew about the neuroendocrine system before that, zero, I probably couldn't even told you there was two hemispheres to the brain.

But when you're backed up against the corner, man, you're going to start to figure some stuff out. So when you learn about the neuroendocrine system, you say, oh my gosh, this regulates absolutely everything in the body. If that is affected, it's going to affect everything else downstream. And I thought, hmm, and so we went and we talked, I talked to a number of endocrinologists, this is through the military, and they accused me of abusing anabolic steroids. They said the only logical conclusion and reason that we can come up to come up with that your numbers are this low is that you are abusing anabolic steroids. I said, could it have anything to do with being in close proximity to hundreds,

if not thousands of blasts? No, not that I'm aware of. I've never seen anything like that. And that's where I was told time and time again. What you're experiencing has nothing to do with a physical injury, it's psychological. And it never sat right with me, John. Never sat right with me because

I wasn't having psychological issues about them. There was no psychological injury there. I did have, I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress, but we now know that that was a downstream manifestation of a neuro like and a chronically inflamed brain that had just incredible deficiencies and deficiencies that manifested in all these things that were, you know, attributing these acronyms to. So being pushed out, now I'm on the streets. At that point, you know, I married, I have five kids. It took like nine months for all my entitlements

and my retirement and thanks to come online. So we're literally without a paycheck for nine months. And my oldest boy was 13 months at the time, had a life threatening illness. It was just, it was a very difficult time. And it was next to his bedside. He's actually in the ICU at Seattle Children's and he just had a major operation to remove just a massive growth out of his neck. And as he's there, man, I took the last lot I ever took, which is a painful, highly a very powerful painful, and I washed it down with a airplane bottle of whiskey and I came to a moment of clarity right there next to my son.

And I realized that in the condition that I was in, like it was gonna kill me, but worse than that, I realized not only was I ruining the lives of everyone I said that I loved, I was creating, there was no value they were getting from that interaction. I thought it was far worse. So the promise that I made my boy and myself right there was threefold number one. It was that I was going to return to the man of my pre-endary status. Number two, I was going to find a way to come off all the medication I was told I would have to be on for the rest of my life.

And at that point, didn't matter what wall I had to go through, what mountain I had to climb, where we had to go, how much money it cost, who I had to see, what they thought of me or didn't think of irrelevant, all of it irrelevant. Because at that point, those two things had now become non-negotiable. And the third one was after I had accomplished number one and two, I was going to spend the rest of my life turning around and helping other individuals and families that found themselves in the same situation that me and my family found ourselves in. And that was enough to pull me out of one line of time and put me in a new line of time.

And though I didn't have the answers, though I didn't have the resources, though I didn't have the right care team in my mind, it was already a done deal and I was on that pathway. And I went out and my unit wouldn't give me leave or wouldn't let me go out and seek medical care, alternative medical care that the tri-care wouldn't pay for, the military system. Fine, I'll take leave. I'll take leave and I'll go on my own dime

and I'll do it myself. And that's what exactly what I did. So I started to go all over the countries. I've went to a number of brain centers both within the military system and without seeking some type of improvements. And I knew because you're hearing stories start to talk to other people and you know, you're learning about all these alternative modalities that are poo pooed for a number of different reasons. And when you're in a extreme level like that, you don't care about any of that stuff. You just want to find some level

of going back and living life on your terms again. And that's kind of where that put me. So, Dr. I attracted some media attention and I believe it was Fox News or Forbes article something of that. And Dr. Gordon, you know, a world famous practitioner of neuroendocrinology in the Los Angeles area, he read it. He contacted, he was able to then contact me and sent me an email and he was like, listen,

hey, this is who I am. This is my credentials. This has been doing with TBI. Here's some media that I've done. And one of those specifically was a podcast. He sent me with another veteran that was on Joe Rogan's podcast. I listened to that podcast, John.

And just like it was you hearing somebody as if they were talking solely about you, it was the exact same thing with me. So as I'm here in this guy, relate this story and the symptoms and the treatments and the side effects from the treatments, and then more medication and more this vicious cycle. And then to hear Dr. Gordon-Marc talk about, hey, here's what was really going on.

Here's how we were able to identify it objectively because there is nothing objective about those dozens mood disorders that I was labeled with. No objective call there. Somebody's subjective opinion. There was no objectivity when I was just like you put on all these damaging pharmaceutical drugs. It was just a subjective call. It's like, hey, we're going to take some objective evidence, which is laboratory tests looking at these important biomarkers that if we're going to be able to identify one, is there neuroinflammation? And then two, is there deficiencies in these important neuro steroids that are needed to run the brain and body? And if there are, then we can

correct those individually and personalize it to your own biological individuality, your own unique needs. So now we're talking about not only precision diagnostics, but precision personalized medicine and care. And it became obvious to me through that podcast and through the interoptions with Dr. Gordon that this is what the type of treatment that humans should have. There's no cookie cutter solution here. Need to be treated on an individual level. Need to identify, hey, man, what is the underlying condition that is causing these things? And if there is an underlying condition, can we identify it and can we treat it and can we mitigate it or modulate it? That's exactly what happened. And so through that interaction with Dr. Gordon,

I was able to get on a protocol with him, personalized protocol, life changing, life changing. Lights went back on, cognitive abilities come back on. Now, and that was in 2015, since 2015, I'm symptom, I'm medication free, and I'm performing as good, if not better than my free injury status, we were told that would be impossible. Point blank, time and time again, finger in my chest from the medical establishment, nobody comes back from things like this.

And now we've helped to replicate results just like mine, thousands of times. And so I don't really care what other people have to say about it. We have the evidence, we have the proof, the science, it backs it up, but you can't refute, or you can refute, but the proof is in the pudding, people in the street. Lights are turned off, lights are back on,

back in the community, being in the street, lights are turned off, lights are back on, back in the community, being a husband, being a father, being a wife, being a mother, being a productive member of society, starting businesses, those ripple effects will expand through the sands of time and have this positive benefit that we're having. But like going back to your question, man, I get sidetracked and I get amped up when I talk about these things. That's how hats out, Gordon, I cross pass. And then that then then led into kind of a partnership where we started to bring this to other people. Okay, well, I mean, it's all very interesting to me because There are so many doctors now who are now looking at alternative means of dealing with this because they know the primary means are not working and are not effective. Dr. Michael Lewis had him on the podcast as well. When he was working at Walter Reed, found an objective link between low levels of omega-3s and TBI victims. I have another doctor coming on next week,

neurologist Jay Lombard, who has figured out ways to reverse not only TBI's, but ALS, Alzheimer, and Parkinson's because he is finding many of the things that you're talking about. The brain gets damaged and these enzymes or hormones don't release and they get trapped. And when they do that trapping or think of it as not flushing it out of the system can cause some of these things to happen. And then there's all the stuff that you're talking about that I've now been exposed to through the foundation

that are also there. But it is ironic that the VA is not using any of these alternate means right now to treat. The other thing before I get into why you founded the Warrior Foundation, in case of veteran is listening to this is, you know, I had five documented TVIs plus other things in my record. To this day, although they service ConnectMe to TBI, they refuse to give me anything above 0%. Yet they will connect me for vestibular hypofunctional vision issues, migraines, and a whole list of other things, yet they refuse to acknowledge that it's the TBI, that's the main factor that's impacting all these other things, which to me is still ludicrous. But where I wanted to go now

is you meet Dr. Gordon, and what came first was writing the book first, was it found in the where angels foundation, what was that sequencing? The first thing was was founding the foundation and we went about it completely asked backwards and that we didn't even have a specified mortality that we are championing or anything else. It was solely that this is even before I met Dr. Gordon and it was, hey, I saw a problem. I experienced it firsthand and I'm a senior special forces in CO and I can I can care for myself. But how is an 18-year-old private supposed to navigate this terrain? Or somebody that's in a brain damage state as a veteran. So it was like, I don't know exactly what we're gonna do,

but we're gonna start a foundation, and it's gonna be a wrapped around this issue, and it's gonna be about providing solutions. And so again, that was, you know, it wasn't bold, maybe so, but I just knew we were going there and rather than wait to have all your ducks in a row, let's just start it, man. And continue to continue to go through it. So we had a number of different modalities that we supported early on. And, and then after my success with Gordon and the Millennium Health Centers, it became just very apparent that that would be the sole modality that we would give behind in sport, because

not only did it prove itself to be the most effective, clinically, it was also made the most economical sense when compared to a lot of these other modalities, which absolutely have merit and benefit. But we found if you don't address the neuro information and the deficiencies or insufficiency to neuro totally focused on the neuroendocrine aspect of it via Dockford Gordon's Gordon Protocol. And from there, and I should say here, my brother, Adam R. was a captain in the Army, a aviator company commander flew the

Apache number of combat missions and in hours as well. Adam resigned his commission and he actually turned down a promotion to get out of the army to help me to get back on my feet. We started the foundation together and then once I was you you know, had made this radical turnaround, he's like, listen, we have to write about this. He's like, what we have here is a blueprint for other people dealing with the same situation to be able to navigate it. Where before, it just, it didn't really exist. And so that's how that came about.

It was, you know, going through the process, the kind of entrepreneurial type of venture. Hey, man, we identified a real problem and it affected us at this way. We identified all of the solutions. None of them were any good for us. So what were the solutions out there that we wanted to go after and how could we create

an environment where we could bring that to market, so to speak, and then that led us to Gordon, then that led us to the book, and then the book led to the film, and there's a steamrolled like that. It wasn't this grand design. It was just purpose-driven, purpose-led, with the only thing that guided us was doing what we felt was the right thing to do. Okay, well, that's a great story. And I wanted to hear also the one about how did you end up getting on the Joe Rogan show? Because for me it would be a dream to be on that show. You know, I feel like a peon compared to his podcast empire that he's built.

But how did he find out about you guys? Because I love some of the causes that he brings on his podcast. Yeah, Joe is a truly remarkable individual and I had just such a special place in my heart for that man. I mean, he's really brought this whole thing to the forefront because it was something that he cared about. And we've had just a complete honor of being on the show, three times now, and he's just been and is such a big supporter of what we've been doing and now, the greater movement at large,

we got in there because, and this has been said publicly, so it's okay to say now, but him and Dr. Gordon had a relationship and he was actually being seen by Dr. Gordon. And again, that's out in the public. No, that's not me disclosing something that's soon to be disclosed. So that's how they, he experienced

same benefits that you and I are talking about. And wanted to just publicize this for everyone else so that they could hear the story and get the help that they needed. Yeah, absolutely. So he brought us on and it was such a good show. We've done it three times now since 2015. The last one being early this year, January of this year.

And Joe was in our documentary. Like I said, he's just been an incredible supporter of everything that we've done. And I don't have anything else to say, but, you know, it's like, it's all out there. But he continues to want to bring it back on there because he wants to get the message out and just have it continue to be pushed out. And now with kind of the stuff that he's battling with mainstream media, you know, going his alternative routes to treat COVID when he came down with it. even more important to highlight these areas that are evidence-based and scientifically valid, but for whatever reason, are being scrutinized by mainstream media. So again, he just continues to be a credible outlet to put out alternative viewpoints wherever you can go and check for yourself and see if you think that's something viable for you or not, that's what free speech is all about, man.

And is podcasting me epitomizes that? Okay, well that's great. And for the listener who's hearing you out, they may not understand completely what endocrine, what it means to get treatment by endocrinologist. So, when I started the program, what it means to get treatment by endocrinologist. So, you know, when I started the program, it all started with getting some blood work done

to understand what was going on and to see if there was a pattern that match what a lot of other people in your program experienced and to see if there were similarities in the way my blood work looked like compared to others. And, you know, it was pretty much the same gap. So that's the starting point. And then,

through your program, you get assigned to a physician who then monitors your care and puts you on supplements. And also, if you're low in certain hormones, those hormones as well, is that a good way to explain it? Yeah, absolutely. It is completely personalized based on the needs of the individual. And we get that we're able to ascertain the needs through kind of two pathways.

One, is there kind of subjective analysis, a symptomatology report, and how their life is going, and then number, that's a subjective route. And then number two is the objective route, which is the last, so the results of the blood work. And from that, the provider is going to be able to understand and excruciating detail what is going on with that individual and how one objective

evidence can influence subjective outcomes. And vice versa. And that's because what was fascinating with me was it was like, hey, because you're deficient and growth hormone and you're deficient and free testosterone, and you're deficient in vitamin D. Well, guess what the research says this leads to mood disorders, low levels of energy, low cognitive functioning, memory issues, these things. Like, so I was like dissecting me to the teeth, just by saying, hey, these are the things that you need to make, that your body's not making anymore, or they're

not making enough of it, due to the trauma. And how did I know the trauma was there? Because of the neuroinflammatory mechanism that's going on, and I talked about earlier, that's not going to show up on any imaging, as fancy as it could be. So that's really that underlying clause there that's oftentimes being missed is that neuro and flammatory state. That when that goes into a chronic situation, like more than 30 to say 90 days, well, that's when it really starts to kill off that cell-to-cell communication, those deficiencies for those hormones, those important hormones are being produced,

are the messages being sent to be produced is inhibited, and that's when you start to have the real downstream consequences, that's oftentimes what's missed. So when people are able to come into our program, because we have those two things that we're looking at, the subjective and the objective, we're usually able to identify it with a high level of competency and success.

And then even better than that, I could talk about treat that specific to the individual. Cool thing about Dr. Michael Lewis is he was the DOD's foremost expert on the identification and treatment of traumatic brain injury. And like you talked about, he did some just groundbreaking studies. One of them, like you talked about with Omega's and suicide. And so, what they were able to do is they were able to and to go back to Walter Reed. So they had this great sample size and it's the biggest blood blank blood bank in the world. Look at individuals that committed suicide and look at their blood,

and they had a great control group, people who didn't commit suicide, and look at their blood. And what did he find? He find that the causal link that they felt was a bleached, huge leading indicator was people that were high in omega-6, low in omega-3 were much more correlated to suicide

than even witnessing a loved one die in combat. Well, and he also had a natural solution to combat and to mitigate that. You think that the army and the military would have championed that, but no, they swept that under the rug like it was nobody's business. Like it was yesterday's news. So that's the level of expertise we're

able to bring into our program. Dr. Borden, we have on one coast, Dr. Lewis, we have on another, and we kind of match up our participants with where they're at geographically and the unique needs of the individual, and as well as some other providers. But, you know, yes. So I'm just kind of rambling there, John.

But, no, no, I just the process of trying to identify, you know, those discrepancies, and more importantly, for individuals like you and I, actually doing something about it, actually treating the underlying condition at a personalized level. Yeah, and I just wanna hit on the suicide thing just real quick. You know, in the figures are pretty staggering in the 20 year war on terror.

There were, you know, just over 5,000 fatalities, not counting injuries, but during that same period, depending on if you count active duty suicides and veteran suicides, it ranges between 135,000 and 170,000 lives that have been lost. And interestingly enough, I did a podcast with Naval Academy classmate of mine, Chuck Smith, Marine Corps officer, because his ex-O took his life and we wanted to bring awareness. He did a TED talk on this that got about two million views. And I went out to eight to ten, three and four star flag officers that I know. And I shared the episode with them and I said, would you be willing to share this

because of your influence? And these are people who would normally respond to me almost immediately. And the crazy thing is that not one of them even acknowledged me sending them the information. And I finally have discovered a big reason why is because they're all afraid it's going to hurt recruitment efforts in the military, which to me is just taking this and completely the wrong direction. Yeah, I agree. You bring up a good point.

Many fold. One is that many fold. One is that we have a certain treatment paradigm that are spent to treat these has gone up every year, hockey stick, up to the right. So you would think that you would also see the numbers improve, but what you see is they get worse. They've gotten worse over time. So all this money we spend on suicide prevention, suicide awareness, are we in or any better off for it? The evidence says we're not. And no, we're

worse than for it. So I think any intelligent person would have to ask himself, well, what we're doing is not working. Matter of fact, it seems to be having the inverse effect. So what I don't understand from the flag officer perspective is if we could one identify this to treat it, does that mean we could also somehow possibly prevent or lessen the clause by implementing some of these protocols, better pennies on the dollar compared to what they're speaking. The answer is absolutely yes, 100%. If you can keep the brain and body

in a neuro-permissive environment where it can bounce back from a injury the way it's intended to, because you're putting the right things in the body, then I would think as a strengthening of the force, you would absolutely wanna do that. That would be a recruitment enhancer, I would feel, because you could say, not only are we cared about you and your career and you're being able to be

as effective as a human and as a citizen coming out of service, but these things that have crippled people in the past, we now have an action plan for, and the science is pretty clear on it. This will help to mitigate it and if it does, you do have this injury, this will help you to recuperate and to come back. So why that's not being done, man, I have a lot of viewpoints on that, but I have encountered pretty much the same response as you, you know, a number of different times with a number of high-level, so-called high-level individuals. And unfortunately, that's where everything has got to start, is at that level, or it's not going to cascade down. Well, I wanted to kind of end the episode by giving you kind of an opportunity to talk about what's next for the foundation and if someone is listening to this, how can they get in touch with the program? Yeah, absolutely. Again, it's just an honor to be here with you, John. Our website is waf tbi.org. It's waf tbi.org. Don't take my word for any to go there. We have an lot of resources. Check it out. Check the resources out. Go and read the articles.

Yourself come to your own conclusion. But what I'm here to tell you is there is an alternative to the only, what we were told was the only show in town. People like John and myself are living proof that you can come back and live a high quality of life after this. What the foundation has been doing, we've actually bi-focated and also have found ourselves in the psychedelic-assisted therapy realm and supporting a lot of research and a lot of legislative efforts in that arena. And the results that we're seeing from individuals who are put on the different psychedelic protocols are asked, profound, as we're seeing treating the neuroendurocology deficits. And it's usually, in my opinion, the science will come out on this and whatever it says is what it will say.

But I believe evidence is pointing towards, man, if you can first correct somebody's deficiencies and modulate, mitigate, downplay that inflammation. Get that out of there or back to appropriate levels and then put them if needed on a psychedelic assisted therapy regimen. Well, what you're going to see there is a synergistic effect. We've seen that anecdotally and empirically now and now we're funding some research that's being done in that domain. So I feel like the veteran community, John, like we're on the cutting edge of neuroscience.

We're on the cutting edge of neurotrauma, neurorestoration. Now we're on the cutting edge with other veteran groups out there of psychedelic assisted therapy. And for the first time ever, we're actually now doing what the research, you know, stopped doing in the late 60s and 70s was looking at these compounds and seeing how they interact. So now for the first time ever, we're sponsoring studies and research to be done looking at

the, like the Borden protocol or taking these neutrosuitables, combining it with psychedelic assisted therapy, and then chronicling the outcomes, which of course will be published in the peer reviewed literature. So all that's coming 2022 and beyond, we were able to get in Texas, past legislation, House Bill 1802, do the first ever state funded,

clinical study of psilocybin and MDA on combat veterans and so that's being run through the Baylor College School of Medicine by a brilliant neuropsychologist Dr. Avril, Lynette Avril and that's made its way into similar legislation now in Michigan, New York, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Florida. So, we're going to continue to do more of the same. We're going to continue to be a voice for those who can't raise their voice. We're going to be continue to put out evidence based in scientifically valid treatment protocols

that help to actually heal as opposed to being a band-aid and just manage a symptom. So answers, hope, healing. That's what we're all about. That's what the future has in store for us. We're going to continue to roll that out. So there's not a breath left in my body. Well I think it's so important for everyone to understand because the frustration with

me was the entire system was trying to seek to treat the symptoms instead of treating the underlying cause. And once you start getting the underlying cause addressed, the symptoms start disappearing. So, you know, I think you guys are really on to something. If you're not a veteran, you still can use Dr. Gordon or Dr. Lewis's treatment. You just have to go to each one of them separately. Is that correct? That is correct. You can get to them through our website.

We have now what's called the at home protocol. And so what that means is we have the neutrals. Well, let me back at it. First thing we do now, typically, is anybody who comes into our program, we put on a neutrosutical protocol, that means nothing prescribed, and also we're not even doing labs. We're putting them on these neutrosutiples that modulate, that drop the inflammation and that support the brain being able to repair, rejuvenate and recover itself. And that's the first 90 days.

Every 30 days they're going to do a September view and say, you know, hey, from starts now, here's how I'm doing on a scale of one to 10, one being the lowest, no good, 10 being I'm just doing phenomenal, I couldn't be doing any better. So we'll get that about 50%. Now, this is just in house and nothing, these are just our clinical observation. 50% of the individuals, they don't need to go any further on the nutraceutical protocol. They feel that they've made the jumps and the leaps that they need to do and they're going to either maintain that or they're going to come off and continue to do life. So that's the first part. And then for those that are not getting the benefit that they that they want to see after 90 days. Now that's when we'll put

them and we'll run the labs and then we'll see what the labs do and then what go and they more personalized approach. Now I say all that to say this. Those nutraceutical protocols are now available to the individual through our website. So we have Dr. Lewis's curated products that he recommends and that is called the Warrior Pack and that is on the waftbi.org site. So the same thing that you would get if you came to us, you can now get for yourself. All those sales benefit directly to the foundation allows us to run operations. That's one side of the aisle. The other side is Dr. Gordon has not only curated,

he's created his own mutual suitable products that we also sell. So we have both of those. How are they different? They're not too different. They're just different, different nutraceuticals, different natural products, different combinations of each. And some people like to go with this

and they don't like the stuff over here and vice versa. So we made options out there. So again, if you want access to the nutraceuticals, sure-rated nutraceuticals by two of the best brain doctors in the world, in my opinion, you can get them through our website. And you can know that those cells go to support our operations. Then that would be my recommendation for anybody, whether it's a family member or somebody

I'm talking to on the phone. And then number two, if after 90 days, you're not where you think you should be, then that's when you can start that more hands-on approach and you can get to the both doctors through our website, waftvi.org. Okay, well, Andrew, thank you so much for coming on the show and thank you, especially for being so vulnerable as you have been all along with telling your story because I think the more people, and I'm finding this myself as I

talk about it more, I have more and more veterans, as you know, coming to me because of these podcasts and we're able to help these individuals, which is I think at the end of the day what we're all trying to do is help each other. So thank you so much for what you're doing and for where you're taking this whole foundation and alternate treatments. Yeah, this is just my absolute honor and the benefit is to hear these life changing stories where they had no quality of life and now I have quality of life because to me the best of the generation has been sidelined and now getting them back on the playing field of life. And if there's ever gonna be a leadership

that we need to see, then these are the individuals that are gonna bring it into fruition. And it's just honored to continue to serve at that capacity, honored to know you, John, honored to be on the show. Appreciate you for the opportunity. Thanks again, Andrew. Man, that was a powerful episode. Never think that regardless of what is happening to you, that you can't

find the way to beat it. Exactly what Andrew martyred did on his journey to finding self recovery. Always have that mindset that you can get beyond your circumstances whatever they may be. A lot of great information from Andrew, and of course, his book that he mentioned in the movie as well, and all of that will be linked in the show notes. All of our books from guests are linked in our show notes, and please do use those links if you buy books from our guests, because it does help support the show. There is also a video of this interview going up on our YouTube channel at John R. Miles. We also on that channel have mindset moments

that will also come out of this episode that either are clips that don't make it to the show and or highlights that you just can't see anywhere else. And I'm at John R. Miles at both Twitter and Instagram or just hit me up on LinkedIn. Thank you so much for joining us. The purpose of our show is to make Passion Go viral. And we do that by sharing with you the knowledge and skills

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