Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Astronaut Kayla Barron On Bring Out the Best Version of Yourself EP 64

Episode Date: September 17, 2021

Kayla Barron is one of the first females in the U.S. Armed Forces to serve on submarines and was selected as part of the NASA Artemis program. Kayla reveals her belief in the work it takes to bring out the best version of yourself in this episode of the Passion Struck podcast with John R. Miles. Like this? Please subscribe, and join me on my new platform for peak performance, life coaching, and personal growth: https://passionstruck.com/. Kayla's Path to Becoming an Astronaut Astronaut Kayla Barron describes how being an astronaut is the best thing she could be doing with her life. But, this wasn't always her life goal. She decided to apply after meeting astronaut Kathryn Hire while the Flagg Officer for VADM Ted Carter, then Superintendent of the Naval Academy. Kayla is part of the Artemis generation of astronauts, which is NASA's return to the moon. This group was handpicked to fly to the international space station and, more importantly, to focus on space exploration and using the moon as a proving ground for Mars. New Interviews with the World's GREATEST high achievers will be posted every Tuesday with a Momentum Friday inspirational message! Show Notes 0:00 Kayla Barron teaser 1:21 Show Intro and Kayla's Background 4:49 Her time as Flag Aide to VADM Ted Carter 6:25 Why she decided to attend the Naval Academy 9:37 What makes the Naval Academy so special 10:47 What she learned from Division 1A Sports 14:50 Her path to the astronaut selection 20:16 Her advice on overcoming failure 24:00 The importance of discomfort in our personal growth 27:12 Becoming one of the first female's on submarines 32:01 Her Gates scholarship and Cambridge University experience 38:35 Her advice on becoming an astronaut 42:44 What it means to be part of the Artemis program 48:00 The importance of humility 51:52 Vulnerability and authentic leadership ENGAGE KAYLA BARRON NASA selected Kayla Barron to join the 2017 Astronaut Candidate Class. She reported for duty in August 2017 and is currently training as Mission Specialist for NASA SpaceX Crew-3 Mission to the ISS scheduled to launch October 2021. The Washington native graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy with a bachelor’s degree in Systems Engineering. A Gates Cambridge Scholar, Barron earned a master’s degree in Nuclear Engineering from the University of Cambridge. As a Submarine Warfare Officer, Barron was a member of the first class of women commissioned into the submarine community and served on the USS Maine. *Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/astro_kayla/ *Twitter: https://twitter.com/Astro_Kayla   ENGAGE WITH JOHN R. MILES * Subscribe to my channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/JohnRMiles * Leave a comment, 5-star rating (please!) * Support me: https://johnrmiles.com * Twitter: https://twitter.com/Milesjohnr * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Johnrmiles.c0m​. * Medium: https://medium.com/@JohnRMiles​ * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/john_r_miles ABOUT JOHN R. MILES * https://johnrmiles.com/my-story/ * Guides: https://johnrmiles.com/blog/ * Coaching: https://passionstruck.com/coaching/ * Speaking: https://johnrmiles.com/speaking-business-transformation/ * Gear: https://www.zazzle.com/store/passion_struck PASSION STRUCK *Subscribe to Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-passion-struck-podcast/id1553279283 *Website: https://passionstruck.com/ *About: https://passionstruck.com/about-passionstruck-johnrmiles/ *Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/passion_struck_podcast *LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/passionstruck *Blog: https://passionstruck.com/blog/  

We really want to use the moon as a proving ground to eventually do planetary exploration, go on to Mars. And so there's a lot of interesting technology. We need to not only develop and test, but improve in order to do that safely. So not only are we going back to the moon, but we're going to have a sustainable human presence there. We're going to build habitats.

We're going to generate power. We're going to get resources from the moon. And we're also going to do some awesome science. So really, really cool geology. And the moon can and we're also gonna do some awesome science, some really, really cool geology, and the moon can teach us a lot, not only about itself, but about our own planet and the formation of our solar system.

Welcome visionaries, creators, innovators, entrepreneurs, leaders and growth seekers of all types to the Passion Struck podcast. Hi, I'm John Miles, a peak performance coach, multi industry CEO, Navy veteran, and entrepreneur on a mission to make Passion Go viral for millions worldwide. In each week, I do so by sharing with you an inspirational message, an interviewing,

I achievers from all walks of life who unlock their secrets and lessons to become an PassionStruck. The purpose of our show is to serve you, one lot, their secrets and lessons to become an action star. The purpose of our show is to serve you, the listener, by giving you tips, tasks, and activities, you can use to achieve peak performance and for too, the passion-driven life you have always wanted to have.

Now, let's become action star. Welcome to the Action Star Podcast, and this incredible interview I have today with NASA astronaut Galabarit and also thank you so much for joining the PassionStruck podcast. We just received recognition that PassionStruck podcast is now in the top 0.5% globally of all podcasts based on popularity. And that is because of you, the audience. And I would encourage you, if you truly love this episode,

please forward it to two or three, like find the people, share it on social media. And if you'd like to connect with me to hear more topics like this, you can connect on Instagram, either at the Passion Start podcast or at John R. Miles. And I'm going to start today's episode with two quotes. The first is from Apollo astronaut Buzz Aldrin who said,

let me say, as I sit here before you today, having walked on the moon, that I, myself, am still on by the American. That, ah, in me and in each of us must be the engine of future achievement, not a slow-dimming life from a time once bright. And Sally Ride said, studying whether there's life on Mars or studying how the universe began, there's something magical about pushing back the frontiers of knowledge. And I picked both of those quotes for today's episode with astronaut Caleb Aaron because she is part of the new group of astronauts called the Artemis Generation who will someday not only do his buzz Aldrin did and step foot on the moon but'll also make that next huge journey

to Mars. And today, we talk about much of Kayla's journey from attending the Naval Academy to being in the first group of females who ever served on summer aides for mutual time in cross-country and division-one sports and the lessons that that taught us through what she would tell the brigade of midshipmen, if she was able to provide them a lecture, her advice was firing astronauts and so much more. But let me tell you a little bit more about our amazing guests today. Kayla Baram once elected Finanza to join the 2017 astronaut class. She reported for duty in August 2017

and is currently training to be a mission specialist for the NASA SpaceX Group 3 mission for the International Space Station which is scheduled October 2021. The Washington native graduated in the United States Naval Academy with a degree in Systems Engineering.

She was a trident and gate scholar. Her parents earned her master's degree in nuclear engineering from the University of Cambridge. As a submarine officer, Kayla was part of the first class of women commissioned into the submarine community, where she served on the USS Maine. And while not training in a pool or doing another activity with NASA, you can find Kayla hiking, backpacking, running, or reading. I'm so excited to bring this amazing guest on the show. Now, let's get Passion Struck.

Welcome to the Passion Struck Podcast in this incredible episode that we have with NASA astronaut Kayla Barron. Kayla, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for having me. I'm not sure, you know, the background for how we connected, but I actually did a previous podcast with Bite's Admiral Ted Carter. And as I was finishing that podcast and he knew I knew Asternaut when he learned swell, he said, you know, who would be great for the show is Kayla. And then he told me the story of first telling him about wanting to be an astronaut. But for those who aren't familiar at that time,

he was the superintendent and what of the Naval Academy and what role were you in? I was his flag aid and for those who aren't familiar in the military, that's a unique role. That is a pretty junior officer, usually a lieutenant or a lieutenant commander. You get to work for a really, really senior officer,

in this case for me, a three-star admiral. And your job is to kind of manage their day-to-day lives, their schedule, their travel, prepare them for meetings, and things like that. But what's really cool about it, developmentally, is as a really junior leader, you get to see what the really senior levels of leadership at the Navy do to impact the mission. And so it's a really cool perspective to get. Having come from a submarine, I got to see what the captain of a submarine and everyone who works below them do, but I had no idea what it took to run senior levels of the Navy, either at the Pentagon or in this case at the Naval Academy.

So it was a really cool experience to get to kind of be a fly on the wall for a couple of years of his leadership. Well, and he is a remarkable leader. And if those listeners or watch or viewers haven't seen that episode with Ted Carter, it's one I would highly recommend. Well, the story gets even better because after talking to Admiral Carter, I have a former not only Naval Academy classmate, but Naval Academy Prep School classmate Chris Cassidy, who recently retired and was the Chief Astronaut at NASA. And I said, and Ricardo said,

I should interview Kayla, what do you think he goes, oh my God, that would be perfect. And so he kind of put the wheels in motion, because he knew what the audience of the Passionate Start podcast is and he said she will be so inspirational for thousands of them. So thank you for, for again doing this.

Yeah, thanks for having me. So you and I had a very similar start to our experience at the Naval Academy. I was recruited, as I think similarly, you were to be a cross country interact athlete. And you tell me a little bit about that experience and why you took the opportunity to go to the Naval Academy because I'm sure like me, you could have gone other places to run. For me, the athletic opportunities kind of were secondary to my desire to go to the Naval Academy itself.

From a pretty young age, I started being interested in maybe serving in the military from about probably 12 on, like early middle school. And I was pretty young at the time, you know, 12, you don't understand that much about the world, and you're kind of at this interesting age in middle school where you still have a lot of your innocence, but you're also mature enough and smart enough

to observe the world around you and really start learning new things. And in the fall of my eighth grade year, a couple, like a week or so before my 14th birthday is when 9-11 happened. And for me, that was just such an eye opening event as this 13 almost 14-year-olds kind of trying to understand how the world around me worked.

And also to think about what I wanted my role in that world to be, it was obviously such a traumatic event for our country and super shocking, but what really influenced me was watching how our nation responded to that trauma, how we came together to support New Yorkers and to think about how we defend our American values. For me, that was really inspirational and cemented my desire to want to serve in the military. And so through high school, I started thinking about the different pathways I could take. And my dad had kind of planted the seed of maybe looking

at service academies when I was in middle school. And as I learned more about the academies, the Naval Academy really came into focus as the place I wanted to attend to college, not only to get a strong degree and hopefully to run, which is what I ended up doing there as well, and the athletic side, but also to develop myself more lead, develop my character, and develop myself as a strong self-leader, peer leader, and more traditional leader as well during that period. So it just seemed

like the place to really challenge and push myself, and to come out on the other side, not only with a degree, but prepared to step into the world as a leader. That's great. And going into a leadership institution like the name of the academy, I know one of the things that was most instrumental for me was having mentors. Was that something that you valued as well from the experience? Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the thing that makes the Naval Academy so special. All of the instructors and officers there in leadership roles are really there because they believe in the mission of the Naval Academy, which is to develop

the future leaders of the Navy and Marine Corps in our nation. And for the professors, it's not just about doing their academic research and advancing their own academic careers. It's really about how can they take these students, you know, this raw material and prepare them to best step into these really demanding leadership roles at a super young age when they graduate. And so I really found that everyone really leans into that. There was always somebody there, nobody was ever too busy, even though they were too busy, to help you work through a challenging problem, whether that was an academic one and an interpersonal one, a leadership challenge. And so for me, having those kinds of people around who really got to

know you, well enough not just to give generic advice, but to really understand your personality, your strengths and weaknesses, and help you figure out how to improve yourself was super formative. And it meant that the challenges we all face at the Naval Academy were ones you could grow from and not ones you just fell on your face because of. Exactly.

And one of the biggest mentors I had there and then I'm going to get to another one a little bit later was track coach Stephen Cooksy. I was actually recruited by Al Cantello and Stephen, both who spent an eternity as

coach's at the academy. But there was a coach on your side, Karen Boyle, who also established an amazing legacy. Tell me a little bit about what you learned from doing varsity athletics and especially from cross country and track. Absolutely. I ran cross country and track in high school. My mom was actually my cross country and track coach for a lot of my high school career, and that was something really special that I shared with her. But I always called myself sort of a brute force runner, especially in cross-country. I don't have the normal cross-country build. I actually don't think I have that much natural talent for it, but I did it because I loved it,

because I loved the culture of cross-country and track. I loved the other runners, and I loved challenging myself in that way. And I loved the like mental and strategic challenge of racing in these really thought always about who's fastest. It's also about who runs the best race, especially as a team, because it's easy to think about those sports as individual efforts sports, not team sports, but for me it was always about how can we strategize and work together to be successful as a group. And I thought that was really fun and intellectually interesting, along with being physically challenging and interesting.

And Karen really supported that culture. She recruited really strong student athletes. We're all nerds, I think, on the cross-country team, especially like doing our chemistry homework on the bus to meet since instead of watching movies. But she really created an environment where she wanted you to push yourself beyond what you thought you were capable of. And for me,

running really represented the opportunity to do that. You have an idea in your head of how fast you can run what time you can get in different events, but then you push yourself beyond that, usually because you're running next to one of your teammates who keeps you going and motivates you through those really, really challenging moments where you feel like you can't make it up the next till around the next corner on the track. And so she really taught me how to do that, how to push myself to a really uncomfortable place

and stay in that uncomfortable place in order to get to the next level. Well, for me, it was a great experience as well. One, because my nemesis from high school, Tim Barkdol, was on the team a couple years ahead of me since I went to NAP. So getting to be on the team with him was great, but also my classmate became one of the most famous cross-country runners in Naval Academy history. Greg Keller, who I think to this day is the only person who was one-well-end star during his retirement. I think he and I had a very similar experience our youngster or sophomore year.

I mean, it was a difficult year because I came into it large to get into the season, but I kept on getting stress fractures, and so it was supposed to be this amazing breakout opportunity and I ended up getting injured and missing a huge part of that season. And at that point, as you know, when you're, you're a plea, you've kind of have the attention of everyone on you and then not sure your experience, but for me, when you get into that sophomore year, it's like, when cares about

you anymore. And then I, I lost that opportunity for running. And at that time, I had this just spitfire of a physics teacher who ended up becoming a huge inspiration for me, and now she's done it for thousands of people censor, but it was Wendy Lawrence. And not only was she my physics teacher, but she also, I'm not sure if you did program it or if they still call it there, but when we went to Pensacola for two or three weeks, she was our supervisor, you could say, but became a mentor in that respect as well. And so talking to Wendy, she was one of the astronauts who saw the landing on the moon, her dad happened to know

a lot of the pilots who became astronauts, so she kind of grew up in it. My understanding is your journey was much more of like chriscasities where it kind of came to you later in your journey. Can you explain that for the audience a bit? Yeah, of course. I talked a little bit about growing up wanting to join the military, but not necessarily having a ton of focus on exactly what that would look like from a young age. I grew up being aware of the space program and the amazing things NASA was doing, but I never really imagined

that I could become an astronaut. It wasn't like a path I really understood. And so for me, I was really looking for the opportunities that would be both the most challenging and developmental, but where I'd be surrounded by people who would support me through those challenges that I can make it to the other side. And also things that I would enjoy. Doing hard things is hard, but if you love doing those things too, it's something that you can find fulfilling and really engage your passion on. And so that's how I found myself to the Naval Academy and in the submarine force. And so leaving the submarine, my first submarine, my tour aboard the USS Maine, it was the first time I really had to

readdress what I wanted to do with my life when you join the Naval Academy and you graduate, you're committed to five years of service. And so I was coming up on that period where since I was 12 years old, I wanted to be a military officer. And now here I am 26 about to have this big decision. Do I stay in the Navy or do I get out? What do I do next? And so I wanted to take that decision seriously, really think hard about it and be super deliberate about that choice. And Admiral Carter knew I was kind of thinking through those things. He was hoping that I would stay in the Navy, but he wasn't pressuring me. He wanted me to make an informed decision. And being a flagate, I got to attend all

of these really amazing events that normally a junior officer like me, just like a nobody wouldn't be invited to, with a bunch of like really impressive important people who I would have no business talking to otherwise. And I happen to be at a football game where an astronaut was attending, in this case, Kay Hyer, who's a classmate of both Wendy and Admiral Carter. And I was like, oh, that'd be an interesting person to talk to. I've never met an astronaut before. And so I'm just killing time during the football game, watching the game with Kay Hyer, and asking her about some of her experiences. And she was an early shuttle astronaut

and participated in one of the missions that was assembling this international space station. And she was telling me about the engineering challenges. They faced the equipment they were bringing online. But especially the kind of team it took, both within the shuttle crew, but also in the larger NASA community mission control, the engineers a mission, and a place humans don't belong, either under the surface of the ocean or in the vacuum of space. And it took the same kind of team and expertise and problem solving to do that successfully. And I kind of mentioned that to her in an off-hand way, like sounds a lot like a submarine, and being in Aval Office or herself, she was familiar with what submarines do, and she just said,

it totally is, it's exactly like that. And so that's what it kind of like sparked it, just got me thinking about it like, oh, if I went on to a submarine and worked in this really challenging environment, figured out how to survive and thrive in that operational context as a member of that team, maybe it's something I could do. And so it's kind of mulling it over for a few weeks and mentioned it to Admiral Carter when we were on our way to an event at the Aaron Space Museum. And I knew there were going to be a bunch of astronauts there. And so it just kind of came to my head like, hey sir, I've kind of been thinking about the astronaut, obviously, lately. And he sort of raised an eyebrow about at me and

said like, really? Because I hadn't mentioned it before. And I didn't know about it before. I was pretty new idea. And he said, huh, that's interesting. And so we walked in to the awesome event. And he probably introduced me to like 10 or 15 astronauts. He knew we were there. And he kept saying like, this is Kayla. She's going to be in astronauts someday. And I was kind of like not ready for that level of announcement or commitment.

And so I talked to a bunch of astronauts and they're super impressive. It was really inspiring, but also really intimidating. Like it made me really unsure about that sort of brand new thought and dream that was sort of developing. And on our way out, Admiral Carter probably told you the story, but he turned to me and said, so what do you think?

And I said, they were really impressive people, sir. And I think he sensed my hesitation and my uncertainty about it. And he kind of just stopped walking and turned to face me, looked me right in the eye and said, Caleb, do you know how you become an astronaut? And I said, no, sir, not really.

I don't. And he looked right back at me and said, you apply. And it kind of stopped me in my tracks. Like that's simple advice, maybe obvious on the surface, hearing the story, but how many people have thought of a big dream, a new thing they want to chase, and immediately started talking themselves out of it. Coming up with all of these reasons why

they're not the right person to do that thing. Amelkart to give me the perfect mentorship in the perfect moment when I was feeling unsure. Like it is complicated, there is more to it than that, but like you apply. You have to put yourself out there. You can't do these things if you don't go for them. And so for me, that was kind of this moment like, I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to apply. And a couple weeks later, NASA announced they were taking applications for our class. So I decided to put my name in the hat and work through the hat and

work through the process and it ended up working out for me against like my wildest. I never thought it would work out, but here I am a few years later training for my first mission. Well, what a pan hat, my colleague. And I recently had a guest on the podcast named Trab Bell. He goes by the name, the bucket list guy because he helps people not only create their bucket list, but he believes people not only create their bucketless, but he believes you should be living your bucketless, which it sounds like you're doing. But when we were having the show, he said this quote that is stuck with me ever since.

He said, how dare I play small? How dare I don't live my life to its fullest? Yet so many people, as you say, play small ball that of trying to play it big. What do you think that is? And what are some of the things that you've done to overcome that? I think it's scary to take on these big challenges. It's vulnerable.

You know when you're stepping into some of these things that you're setting yourself up potentially to fail. And especially if it's something you haven't done before, but even if it is, you know going into it, you might not make it to the other side or you might learn something about yourself that you wish you didn't know. And when you're really pushing yourself

to the edge of your abilities and trying to push beyond them, and that's scary, it's scary for all of us. And I think people who wouldn't say that scary are lying, you know, like you really have those moments of doubt when you're doing challenging things. And for me along the way, I think it's really been one learning it's worth it to sit in that discomfort so that you can push beyond it. I think I learned that at the Naval Academy with my classmates and leadership opportunities, I think I learned that in cross-country and track. I think I really learned that aboard the submarine

and I've continued to learn that at NASA. But I've also learned that it's really important to understand the people you're surrounding yourself with, to pick challenging, for me, I work in challenging environments with other people on a team. I'm not really a solo adventure. That's just not, I could imagine

myself doing some of those things, but I'm really driven into environments where there's a diverse team with the potential to become like a highly functioning cohesive group where everyone brings the best version of themselves to the problem and supports each other's weaknesses, which we all have. And so the Naval Academy was a great place to start that journey, but the submarine force, in my opinion, has the like super talented enlisted sailors really special chiefs, quarters, and great officers who are out trying to work in this really hard environment. And that's true at NASA too. So I don't think I would have made it through, maybe I would have made it through the challenges, but not in the same developmental way.

I wouldn't have come out so much stronger and better without having been surrounded by people who were investing in me, who were pushing me beyond my limits, and there to help me get up and dust myself off when I made mistakes and learn from them and be better the next time. And so I think in those moments of uncertainty, like, can I really do this?

You kind of look to your left and your right and see the people next to you who maybe are scared too, but you're like, oh, we can do this together. And I think recognizing that and learning that lesson over and over again, when you're scared and don't think you can make it through the next moment, the next challenge, your buddies beside you are the people who push you through that.

For me, one of the most important times in my life when I learned that was actually low and I was competing in cross-country and track. And I don't think unless you've done it at the collegiate level, do you realize how arduous Division I sports are? And so I remember one of the worst workouts we did was Coach Cooksy would send us on a warm-up where we'd run all the way over to the golf course and back. So that's probably a six seven mile warm-up run. And at the time, we're probably doing it around six minute miles. And then we get back to the track and it's mystery day because you don't know we're just going to throw at you.

But the one we dreaded is he'd make us stew five one mile repeats and all of them had to be into 430. And I would go back after that and tell my roommates about the workout, but what it really showed me is so oftentimes I think people don't want to put themselves in short term discomfort. And that's actually what that is. But when you learn from it, at least for me, is in doing that. And when you actually go to run that one mile race, you'll look at, man, not only did I do five of these in this time, but I did seven-mile or before, it kind of gives you that ability that you can see the long-term, you can get the confidence that you can take your life to that next step.

And so I'm not sure if you had experiences like that, but some of the workouts we did were probably the hardest I've ever done in my life. Yeah, totally. And I think I've faced moments like that at different points in my career and different types of challenges, whether that was athletic or interpersonal,

leadership challenges, operational challenges. And I know you talked with Chris a little bit about this based on his experience in going through buds and on the SEAL teams. And my sort of like mantra in these moments that's evolved over time and was cemented actually in astronaut training, we did a Noles course, backpacking course, leadership and team development course. And one of our instructors when, you know, in those really tough moments where you're cold,

you're wet, you're hungry, we still have a long way to go. You made a mistake and went the wrong way, and now your team has to rally together to make it to that end point. He would say, this is not your new forever. And I say that to myself now a lot, because it's a good reminder like you're saying, like you're in that moment of discomfort,

and you know intellectually that you're gonna get to the other side and that it's a good reminder, like you're saying, like you're in that moment of discomfort, and you know intellectually that you're gonna get to the other side and that it's developmental and all of these things, but emotionally, you're like, oh, how do I keep going in this moment? And kind of telling myself, this is not your new forever. Like you're gonna get to the other side, and you know you're gonna be better as an individual and as a team for it, is a really important thing

to keep in mind, and kind of adjusting that event horizon to understand the bigger picture is super helpful. Did you know that Forbes Magazine recently cited that 70% of individuals who do personal development, masterminds, and one-on-one coaching, benefited from better work performance, increased communication skills, and overall better relationships. one-on-one coaching, benefited from better work performance, increased communication skills,

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different direction. I, during my military career, got to go on through different subs. My specialty was more working for the NSA so they were short-graition missions, but I mostly went on fast-tax, I was on the Baltimore Cincinnati and Phoenix. All of them are the commission at this point, but at that point in time, there were no females on any summaries. In fact, it was thought at that point in time,

there probably never would be. Yeah, you graduate from the Naval Academy and get this opportunity to be one of the first female officers and females in general who had the opportunity to go into the summering community. What made you make that choice? That's a good question that has sort of a long answer, but I'll try to keep it brief. When I started at the Naval Academy, I thought I wanted to be a fighter pilot. And a couple of things sort of happened at the same time during my freshman year that had me rethinking that a little bit. I found out that I might not be eligible for eye surgery, which meant that I might not be eligible to be a pilot. And I wasn't sure

how that would play out. There were like maybe if your vision, your prescription changes a little kind of a thing. So that's what was my first indication I might need to consider other paths. But at the same time, you're getting to know the officers on the yard and finding those mentors who are going to help you develop through this period. And not really coincidence, I think just naturally I was drawn to submarine warfare officers on the yard, the junior officers who just finished their first two run of submarine were back as lieutenants, either as instructors or company officers. I was really interested in their experience and found them similar dispositionally. And so I think in hindsight,

there was something to that. The time I didn't really think that hard about it. And like you said, at that time at the Naval Academy and in the Navy, like nobody was saying women were gonna be able to go submarines. And in fact, many people said it would never happen. And certainly not during our careers if it did. But during protramid, which you mentioned earlier, it's the summer training you do during your sophomore and junior year.

And I like to call it sort of the Navy's job fair. You spend a week with every major warfare community, the Marine Corps, Surface Warfare, Aviation and submarine. And in previous years, women hadn't done submarine week because they couldn't go submarines. But the leadership at the time thought that the other, the value and approach mid besides just helping you choose

what would be the best community for you, it also gave you an opportunity to see up close what your colleagues across the Navy and Marine Corps were going to be doing. And it was developmental for your future leadership anyway, just because you got to go on a way on a submarine and you might not have done that otherwise. And so women were allowed to participate in submarine week. And we went underway for 24 hours on a Los Angeles class attack submarine out of San Diego. And I spent a lot of time talking to the sailors on the ship

trying to get to know them. And I was just so blown away, even these really junior sailors, especially the nukes, you know, they're like super smart, really intrinsically motivated, funny, have these awesome personalities. And I could see that they held their junior leaders, the junior officers who I would eventually be when I graduated,

to really, really high standard in a really challenging environment. But if you showed up willing to learn, demonstrating a potential and investing in those relationships, showing you had the character to be a member of their team, they would do anything to invest in you and shape you into the kind of leader that they wanted to follow.

And so I saw like, oh, here's this really, really challenging environment. Dispositionally makes sense for me, kind of the kind of challenges I wanted to develop myself as a leader that work on a lot of my weaknesses, but also in a community where if I was bought into the team, they would be there for me and help me through that. And so I left that 24 hours on the submarine saying like, I want to do this, I want to be a submarineer. And so I told a lot of my mentors, kind of like, Wendy went with you on that training.

A couple of my submarine warfare mentors were kind of organizing this and in charge of us in San Diego. And I told them about it. And they were like, maybe like women aren't allowed in the community right now. But that's the awesome that you're interested in. They were encouraging. And then it just so happened that about a year after that in the fall of my senior year,

the Obama administration and the Secretary of Defense, they announced that women were gonna be allowed to go in the community. And they asked for ROTC, midshipmen, and Naval Academy of Leadership midshipmen who were willing to volunteer to go into that role. And so for me, it was a no-brainer. I was like, I already want to do that.

Yeah, absolutely. And so I requested to switch into that community and got the opportunity to do it on graduation. And it ended up being everything I hoped it would be and more. That's fantastic. And I remember correctly, you were on USS Maine, which is holistic summary. And so your missions are much longer durations

than the ones I would have been on, because I think you do it down for two or three months at a time. Yeah, usually about three months at a time. Yeah, so while I tell you, for me on the FASC attacks, one of the things that always was shocking is I'd be working out, and the nuclear reactor would be 10 feet in front of me. It's a little discerning, but no ill effects.

I think it would also be interesting for the audience to understand a little bit about your education background, because the system's engineering at the Naval Academy is anything but a layup. And then to be a tri-and-scaller, for the listener who doesn't understand that, that means that Kayla finished probably in the top 10 of her class.

I'm guessing probably top three. So it's a very, very difficult thing to achieve. My roommate, Dave Ismay, was our valedictorian, and he was a Rhodes Scholar, and my very good friend, Jeff Egger, who's finished second, and he was a Gates Scholar, which I realized through the two of them, is how special an opportunity that is.

Can you tell the audience a little bit about your time going to Cambridge and also I wanted you to unpack, I could go to Cambridge and then study his nuclear engineering and I applied a new ways to make nuclear engineering clean. I just thought probably 22, 23 year old at that time, what an aspirational goal. Yeah, this is also a story of mentorship for me.

When I came to the Naval Academy, I wasn't even aware that you could go to graduate schools straight after the Academy. It wasn't something I was thinking about. And my freshman year, my history teacher, Captain John Freeman, who's still my closest mentor to this day, he pulled me aside after class one day and asked me if I'd ever considered going to graduate school. And he worked with the program that helps mentor students and help them apply to these scholarships and programs.

And I hadn't really, but he opened my eyes to those opportunities. And so I started thinking about it. And through the scholarship program, it's kind of a mentorship program, an intellectual development program. I started learning more about the world and the challenges we were facing outside the immediate walls of the Naval Academy, which is normally your sort of world horizon, your freshman year.

But I became really interested in climate change. And trying to understand how we could fight that problem world horizon, your freshman year, but I became really interested in climate change and trying to understand how we could fight that problem through engineering. As an engineer, I wanted to know what are the better solutions, how can we improve the way we are tackling this problem. And of course, like all the green energy options, we should be pursuing wind, solar, hydro, all of these things. But what really stuck out to me is don't have a clean, base-loaded power generation capability. And right now with today's

technology, these other things can't really provide it. Like we're using coal-fired and natural gas-powered plants, and it's not going to cut it. We're not going to get there with this plan. And so I grew up near a nuclear power plants because my dad works in the nuclear energy industry. And it's something I hadn't thought a lot about until I started thinking about climate change. And growing up near nuclear power plants because my dad works in the nuclear energy industry. And it's something I hadn't thought a lot about until I started thinking about climate change. And growing up near it, I had a healthy respect for it, but I wasn't afraid of nuclear power. And so I started looking into, you know, what are the new technologies people are working on? What are people pioneering? What are the next generation reactors going to look like? And so I went down like a real nerdy rabbit hole about thorium fuel reactors and was really interested in how

Different fuel cycles could help us have easier waste management problems Reprocess our existing waste and kind of just thinking big picture How do we make this work in a way that makes sense for our planet do it responsibly? And that's what drew me to Cambridge in the first place There's this really awesome professor there Dr.. Jeff Parks, who's working on developing an ex-generation thorium-fueled reactor. And so it just seemed like an awesome fit. I was really interested in the technology

that we're doing. I was really passionate about the potential impact it could have. And that's what drew me to Cambridge in particular. They have fantastic engineering. And this professor, who I just reached out to out of the blue, like I'm just a random naval academy midshipman and emailed him saying, I'd read some of of his papers and I was interested in his research and maybe wanted to come study under him and he supported me. I could definitely use a master student to work

on some of these problems. And so I applied, applied for a gate scholarship, which is a scholarship that was founded in 2000 by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to fund graduate studies at Cambridge and just it happened to work out. And I got that opportunity to go nerd out for the year, do some awesome engineering, write a thesis, and then come back to continue my naval career. Well, I am not sure, and I know there are a lot of people there, but my first cousin was actually at Cambridge

the same time you were there. There can't be that in the Americans there. So Chris Edelman, I'm not sure if you ever ran into him or not. It was such a profound experience for him and it actually carried forward because he went to Stanford Law School and Stanford actually forgave a year of law school and counted his Cambridge master's towards a year of school. So I know it turned out right for him, but it's amazing some of the programs that Cambridge allows you to study because his wife now they met a Cambridge has a doctorate from Cambridge in mental telepathy of all things. fascinating place in that way. And I'm actually met my husband at Cambridge. We were both studying there at the same time. But what really I think opened my eyes and why it was such developmental opportunity wasn't just like my academic and research experience, but especially the people

I met there. The Naval Academy is diverse in its own way, but it's a pretty homogeneous environment in terms of disposition, personality, the way you see the world. And at Cambridge, it was like the most international and diverse intellectual environment I had ever been a part of. And the Gates community, especially, brings in people who are passionate about what they're doing academically, want to apply that knowledge to make a difference in the world, and want to be leaders in some way, want to help push knowledge to make a difference in the world and want to be leaders in some way,

want to help push and drive change. And so meeting these people who were passionate about these things I've never heard of, like the degree you were just talking about, and understanding how they saw the world through this unique academic lens and why they were passionate about what they were doing and why they thought it was going to make a difference really opened my eyes to all the different ways you can serve and lead, and that community is still a part of my network now when I think about how I can contribute, even though it's a little bit different path.

Yes, and I'm sure all of that are things that you're gonna take with you now as you're going into the space community and beyond. So I think that's a great transition because I'm sure this is what the audience has probably been wanting to hear the most about is you're now NASA career. So you were selected to be one of the 12

Artemis astronauts in the class of 2017. And for the audience, I'm gonna put this in perspective for you. There were 12 people selected out of 18,000. And I did the math on that. It's something like 0.06%. If you, another statistic of just how selective it is, if you look at the Marine Corps, to become a flag officer in the Marine Corps is the hardest out of any of the services based on their numbers. And to become a four star, it's a 0.9% chance. And to be selected like you were, it's incredible odds

to even get to where you are. And when I look at the class who's around you, former Navy SEAL, you've got doctors, pilots, kind of one of the most diverse groups I've ever think I've seen of astronauts. Can you tell the audience because I think you're now trying to select for future classes of astronauts? What are some of the biggest things that you would focus on

if you were someone who aspired to have your job in the future like my daughter as she could be doing now and prepare for it? Yeah, there's no one path to becoming an astronaut as you've kind of pointed out and talking about our class. Some of our class came through the military, but even within the military, different communities fixed wing aviation, rotary wing aviation, but also we have military physicians, me as a submarineer, Johnny, who's a physician, but also was a seal before that you mentioned. But on the civilian side too, we have academics, we have engineers, we have planetary geologists,

we have biologists. So the only thing you really have to do to become an astronaut is study STEM. But besides that, you can do almost anything and find your way eventually down this path if you're passionate about it. So the thing that I would stress is choose opportunities that are challenging and developmental, but that you actually really, really care about. Because those are the things that will help develop and prepare you, and you can't plan on becoming an astronaut kind of to your point. I think our entire class, when we applied, didn't expect to get it.

Nobody does. You're just like throwing yourself out there because how do you become an astronaut? You apply. That's true, but you know when you apply that it takes a lot of luck being in the right place at the right time. Like, who knows what the secret sauce is to like make it through that process? None of us do, even having been through it. And when you show it for interviews, like I was like, I do not belong with these people. Like I had true imposter syndrome. They were so impressive. And I was like, I'm never

going to make it through this thing. So I'm just going to be myself and do my thing. I'll go back and serve it again on a submarine as a department head. I'm really passionate about that. Maybe I'll be a captain someday. And I was passionate about what I was doing anyway. It's a really hard thing to explain, but us who have this dream of becoming an astronaut, who apply, who go through the process,

you're hopeful it'll work out. And if you're one of the lucky ones who gets it, it's the best thing you could ever imagine doing with yourself. But there's a little sliver of your heart that's kind of disappointed because you were so passionate about what you were doing otherwise. You chose those things because you believed in their importance because you found them fulfilling and challenging. And you're walking away from that to focus to on becoming the best ass you're not you can be. You're kind of leaving that previous world behind. I think there's a lesson in that that you really want to pursue things that are hard,

that are going to push you, but that you really believe in, because that's what will prepare you to apply and be competitive, but that's also how you should be living your life anyway. One thing that midshippen often asked me about at the Naval Academy is, should I take Russian classes? Because I know astronauts study Russian. And my answer always says, do you want to learn to speak Russian? It doesn't. NASA will teach you that if you become an astronaut, but you should do the things that you care about, and that's how you're going to prepare yourself to eventually be competitive.

Yeah. So my sister speaks fluent Russian, but I can tell you, she and I are very different in that regard. She picks up languages like they're nothing, and for me it's worse than taking electrical engineering, final exams. I'm closer to your end of the spectrum. Yeah, I remember talking to Chris about it. He said I learned it enough to definitely get by, but I'll never be my first language. So not an easy skill, but that's great background. So for those who aren't familiar with it, what does it mean to be part of Artemis? What is the Artemis generation of astronauts? Yeah, being at NASA right now is really special. It's

super exciting because we're still doing the things that we do really well, living and operating on the space station. We're starting to fly new vehicles to the space station with SpaceX and hopefully soon Boeing as well. I'm scheduled to fly to the space station on a space X-dragon in late October and be a part of that mission. But we're also really on like at the dawn of this new era. We're ready as an organization at NASA to kind of focus less on operations in lower orbit like the space station and start exploring again. And the Artemis program is our return to the moon, not just with probes or orbiters or robotic landers, but to put human boots back on the moon.

And it's really exciting because we learned a lot in Apollo, but we visited this tiny little like soda straw version of visiting the moon and trying to understand the science and geology that we can learn from being there. And we really want to use the moon as a proving ground to eventually do planetary exploration, go on to Mars. And so there's a lot of interesting technology we need to not only develop and test but improve in order to do that safely. So not only are we going back to the moon, but we're going to have a sustainable human presence there. We're going to build habitats, we're going to generate power, we're going to get resources from the moon, and we're also going to do some awesome science. So really going to build habitats. We're going to generate power. We're going to get resources from the moon.

And we're also going to do some awesome science, some really, really cool geology. And the moon can teach us a lot, not only about itself, but about our own planet and the formation of our solar system. And so it's really cool to watch this technology being developed, whether it's the spaceuits being built to return to the moon or the capsule or the rocket, everybody's just buzzing and excited about pushing the boundaries of what we've done before. And it's a really cool time to be starting out at NASA. And I think our class is really lucky because we're going to get a chance to learn from the experience NASA has developed on the space station.

We're going to get a chance to go live and work on the space station, learn from that opportunity, but then apply that in a new and more challenging context further from Earth, new technologies, new challenges. So it really feels like the beginning of a long journey, I think, for our class of kind of learning from the existing experience and perspective, but also pushing beyond that to do something new. Yeah, and I remember, I can't remember, was on Netflix or another perspective, but also pushing beyond that to do something new.

Yeah, and I remember, I can't remember, was on Netflix or another special, but I was watching a series of videos that were on the Apollo original astronauts. And I remember during a part of it, they told them that one of their main missions was to be geologists. And so they took them all out. I think it was to New Mexico, Arizona, and taught them how to recognize certain patterns. And I saw in some of the pictures, as I was researching the show,

that it looked like you might have done something very similar to that. Is that still a program that NASA does? It is. And it's one that will continue to expand on and refine as we actually get ready to go back to the surface. But even part of our initial astronaut candidate training, we do field geology training with back to the surface. But even part of our initial astronaut candidate training, we do field geology training with some of the best field geologists in the world are willing to come spend time with these happy, go lucky little astronaut candidates with,

for the most part, no experience in that. We're lucky in our class. We have a planetary geologist in our class, Jessica Watkins, who specializes in Mars Geology, to kind of help bridge the gap between those scientists and field workers and like our operational perspective, but they try to teach us those skills that you go to place you've never been before with limited information. And how do you tell the story of how it got to look like it does today? What are the interesting samples, the interesting discoveries through observations that you could make? Because, geologists, planetary geologists in particular, are super interested in sending human beings back to the moon.

It's a lot different than operating a robot on the moon. We can get further, we have human eyes to recognize unique patterns or things that stand out or seem unusual, but we have to be good stewards of that, right? Because not all the geologists get to go to the moon. They're sending submarines like me, engineers, people from different academic backgrounds, hopefully Jessica Wat the geologists get to go the moon. They're sending submariners like me, engineers, people from different academic backgrounds. Hopefully Jessica Watkins will get to go the moon.

Because she'll do the best geology of any of us. But the rest of us have to try to do right by them and bring back the right samples for them to study and learn from. We're kind of their representatives. And so that training helps us learn how to be good members of that team, who kind of say what we see and get their advice on

what's the best thing to investigate and look at. And it's really, really fun training. Like, I didn't really thought much about geology. I love the outdoors. I love, you collected rocks when I was little, did all that. But I really see the world around me differently now because of that training. Well, speaking of training, one of the things that when I was talking to Chris and I've seen this with other astronauts is the phenomenon that I call humility, which you wouldn't expect of someone who's in your job and it's interesting because right now I've been doing a series of personal episodes on the art of diplomacy and on one of the greatest things you can take into your career, which is humility. Can you tell me why it's so important to have humility as an astronaut and not only as an astronaut, whether you're a naval officer or aspiring person in your career? Yeah, I mean, having humility is just being connected with the reality of your humanity. We're all just human beings who've been given an incredible opportunity. I think

from the outside looking in when I was applying to be an astronaut, it was intimidating because you see these people and all of the things they've accomplished. But then you realize as you get to know them and become a member of the team, that just like you, they're a human being trying to do their best to contribute. And that means that they bring a lot to the table, but they also aren't perfect. That you have a lot of weaknesses too, that need to be worked on both individually, but also supplemented by the people around you. And so having that self-awareness to know what you're good at and what you're not drives that humility, and the reason it's super important to have that awareness that you're not perfect and that you have things you need to work on and that you can

make mistakes, is that's without humility, I don't think you learn from your failures, because you're not perfect and that you have things you need to work on and that you can make mistakes is that's without humility, I don't think you learn from your failures because you're gonna kind of reject that or make excuses for it and you're not gonna be somebody who appears open to your team to criticism, to constructive feedback to those learning points. And so for me, it's natural because I know that I'm just like a person doing my best in the world and I want to learn and lean into that discomfort of being vulnerable of knowing I can make mistakes so that I can be better next time, not only for myself, not for my ego, but because I want to do right by my team. I want to be the best version of myself every single day because that's what the people around me deserve. And I think that is especially true in places like a submarine or other parts of the military because you're doing really high consequence things.

And the decisions you make have real implications, not only for the mission, but the lives of the people around you who you really care about. So I think without that, it's easy to do those things the wrong way and have to face really tough consequences as a result. We all have our innate strengths and weaknesses. So to me, part of being humble is recognizing that if you're on a submarine, not everyone is going to understand the nuclear reactor, not everyone is going to be an expert at how do you launch the torpedoes.

So you have to have that confidence and trust that that teammate of yours is going to be an expert at how do you launch the torpedoes. So you have to have that confidence and trust that that teammate of yours is going to be able to do the test that's at their hand, which I'm guessing is going to be extremely important in your missions. So one of the questions I always ask Naval Academy grads and if you're not one, one of my favorite things to attend when I was there was something we called the forest all lectures and I got to hear Roger stop back, Rospero, others when I was there at most off-dale and I always asked this question if you could go back and we're given the honor of presenting a forest all lecture or what would you do it on? Oh man. The force, the brigade of midship and can be a tough audience because they hear from these incredible people and I'm not sure I would have any business really giving a forest all extra. But I think what I would want to talk about is probably the importance of vulnerability and authentic leadership and kind of back to your question about humility of being willing to bring your whole self to the job of being leader in the Navy or Marine Corps. And to me, that means embracing

vulnerability and uncomfortable situations and being willing to admit that you've made mistakes so that you can learn from them and also being willing to lean into conflict, not accepting artificial harmony, but leaning into these opportunities to resolve things so that your team can really trust each other. Because I think without vulnerability, you can't have a team where you truly trust the person next to you in every single context. And without that trust, I think you can't be a highly functioning team. And so for me, that journey of understanding, I struggle with vulnerability, I struggle with that feeling of putting yourself out there, of opening yourself up to failure and mistakes,

showing people who you really are is a scary thing. But I think it's something that makes the difference on teams from taking people who are mission oriented, who are talented, who are super driven, and making them a true team. Like, you can call a group of people team but they're not in my opinion really a team until they built that trust in cohesion to get the best out of everybody so that everybody feels comfortable bringing their whole self to the table and working through those challenges so i think i probably talk about that i think that would be a very valuable topic because vulnerabilities one of the most things. I think for any of us as a human, hopefully, immerse ourselves in, yet it's so important because that authenticity, often, is what propels us to excellence. So I think I have time for one last question. And one of the major purposes of passion struck is to try to make passion go viral. And it's an incredible time we're in right now because there are actually hundreds of millions of people who aren't engaged in with what they're doing.

And I call them the underdogs. Gallup did a 2019 survey that showed only 15% of the world's full-time workers are actually engaged in what they're doing. And I think the underdogs are people who have lost self-belief in what they're able to accomplish. So you touched on it with the forest all- Lecture, but what would your advice be on someone who's might be at a down point now? How do you regain that self-belief? How do you push through? I think a lot of times getting through these hard moments, but also choosing the opportunities

where you are going to be fully engaged and passionate, it can be intimidating. How do I get from here to there? Like, when you imagine where you'd want to be along the line, the long-term planning, I'm a planner, so I think in theory, as a kid, I was like, oh, I'm a planner so I think in theory as a kid I was like oh I'm the chart this course so wherever. But I've learned through my experience that there's a lot of power in making the next right choice. What is the thing that I could be doing right now that would be the most impactful, the most developmental, and with the people who would push me the right way. What's the culture I could thrive in? And sometimes that means making scary choices like changing your job or applying for something new or going back to school or any of those things. But it's easy to get wrapped up in

the intimidation factor of a long journey or kind of stuck where you are not wanting to make that change. But I think if you just kind of look around what could I do with the next year or two of my life? To be the best person a year or two from now? And I think that's what I've kind of come to in making these decisions, like not trying to think so long-term, but like, what's the most impact I could have in this next phase, this next period? And just choosing that thing, because I've found every time I've done that, it's been super developmental, and it's changed what I thought I wanted to do next. The long-term plan I imagined isn't my long-term plan anymore,

because I've opened my eyes to new things, I've grown and changed as a person. So I think kind of raising your eyes to the horizon a little bit and looking around you, what are the things I could be doing next is the way to focus. So kind of like not focusing on the media present or the distant future,

but what changes could I make now to change my course, eventually? One of the people who does it best is Elon Musk, whose aircraft you will be flying in very soon. Really does focus on the short term while looking at the long term horizon. Absolutely inspirational interview. Thank you so much for doing this,

and to the audience is absolutely going to love this as much as I have. Thanks for having me. It was awesome to talk to you. I wanted to use this opportunity to wrap up some of the things that Kayla and I spoke about during today's episode. I mentioned a couple of people who were previous guests on the show, and I wanted to highlight them again in case you wanted to go to those specific episodes. One of those is titled Being Present in the Moment and it's with Navy SEAL and former Chief Astronaut Preskacity.

An incredible episode on his journey from the Naval Academy through Buds through winning two bronze stars with value to three trips into space and so much more. And I also talked about my episode with Ice Admiral Ed Carter, who is currently the president of the Nebraska University System. In an art discussion, he also talked not only about his time at the Naval Academy, but also how being the captain of the hockey team taught him such vital leadership and teamwork skills. We cooked those into the fleet where he became a fighter pilot,

attended top gun, and then eventually became not only the president of the Naval War College, but the longest standing superintendent of the Naval Academy. I also talked about a couple of solo episodes that we've done that I would encourage you to go back and listen to. One of them was on the art of diplomacy, and this is one of the most important skills that I think we all can pursue in our careers and in our life. The diplomacy is so important, no matter where we want to go in our lives. And I also talked about my episode on humility, and specifically intellectual humility,

and why that is so vital to both your career and your personal endeavors. As always, thank you so much for your support, this podcast. And if you would like to see other guests like Kayla, please DM me on Instagram at John Armiles. Work in act in a different way. I'd love to hear your thoughts and also other topics that you would like me to cover on this show. Remember make a choice, work hard, and step into your share pages. Thank you so much for joining us. The purpose of our

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Additionally, you can listen to us every Tuesday and Friday for even more inspiring content. And remember, make a choice, work hard, and step into your sharp edges. Thank you again for joining us. you