Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Bernie Marcus on Why You Have to Go For Your Strengths EP 237

Episode Date: January 5, 2023

Bernie Marcus is the co-founder, former Chairman, and CEO of the Home Depot. He appears on the show to talk about Kick Up Some Dust: Lessons on Thinking Big, Giving Back, and Doing It Yourself, his most recent book. --►Purchase Kick Up Some Dust: https://amzn.to/3jTamod  (Amazon Link) What We Discuss About Going For Your Strengths Our guest, the co-founder of Home Depot Bernie Marcus, explains to me why it takes a do-it-yourself mindset and going for your strengths to create a Fortune 500 company and also take on significant issues like assisting in the fight against cancer, treating PTSD in veterans, enacting change in your community, and being a force for good in the world. This motivational interview will encourage you to imagine, create, donate, and perhaps change the world. Full show notes and resources can be found here: https://passionstruck.com/bernie-marcus-you-have-to-go-for-your-strengths/  Brought to you by American Giant and Omaha Steaks. --► For information about advertisers and promo codes, go to: https://passionstruck.com/deals/  --► Prefer to watch this interview:  https://youtu.be/73u9FEG_6sg  Like this show? Please leave us a review here -- even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter or Instagram handle so we can thank you personally! --► Subscribe to Our YouTube Channel Here: https://www.youtube.com/c/JohnRMiles Want to find your purpose in life? I provide my six simple steps to achieving it - passionstruck.com/5-simple-steps-to-find-your-passion-in-life/ Want to hear my best interviews from 2022? Check out episode 233 on intentional greatness and episode 234 on intentional behavior change. ===== FOLLOW ON THE SOCIALS ===== * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/passion_struck_podcast * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/johnrmiles.c0m  Learn more about John: https://johnrmiles.com/ 

coming up next on the Passion Struck Podcast. I had never had this feeling of all of a sudden, out of work, no money coming in, no money coming in your family. It was hard, it was hard. And all the people out there, I will tell you, if you dwell on the negatives, you're gonna end up being negative

for the rest of your life. You will not recover. You have to think about what you're really to end up being negative for the rest of your life. You will not recover. You have to think about what you're really good at, what you're able to accomplish, what your character is like, and what your abilities are like, and you have to go for your strengths. And I think that can't make a life. Welcome to PassionStruck. Hi, I'm your host, John Armiles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance

of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long form interviews, the rest of the week, with guest-ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators,

innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become Passion Struck. Hello everyone, and welcome back to episode 237 of Passion Struck. Recently ranked as the third best podcast for mindset and the fourth best podcast for conversation. And thank you to each and every one of you who comes back weekly to listen and learn, I'd live better, be better, and impact the world.

If you're new to the show, we appreciate it so much that you are here, or you would just like to introduce this to friends or family members. We now have episode starter packs, and these are collections of our fans' favorite episodes that we organize into convenient topics to give any new listener a great way to get acquainted to everything we do here on the show.

Just go to either spotify or passionstruck.com slash starter packs to get started. In case you missed it, earlier this week, I interviewed Dr. Benjamin Harding on how our actions are not driven by our past, and KSU. In case you missed it, earlier this week, I interviewed Dr. Benjamin Harding on how our actions are not driven by our past, but are pulled forward by our future. I also wanted to thank you for your continued support

of the show and all these ratings and reviews that you give us weekly. I know we and our guests love to hear your feedback. Now let's talk about today's interview. Why is having a do-it-yourself attitude so important? In these times of constant change in economic crisis, our guest, Home Depot co-founder Bernie Marcus discusses with me why it is that attitude and skills that can build a Fortune 500 company that can also tackle huge problems, like helping cure cancer, treating veterans with PTSD, bringing about change in your community,

and being a positive force for the world. We discuss how to encounter and prevail against all manner of personal, as well as professional challenges. The importance of working smarter than your competition and how to protect your success once you have attained it. This interview will inspire you to dream, build, give, and maybe change the world.

Bernie Marcus co-founded Home Depot, the world's largest home-imperman retailer, and served as its inaugural CEO and chairman until his retirement in 2002. Over the last several decades, he has redirected his entrepreneurial spirit towards hundreds of charitable endeavors in the hopes of solving huge colossal issues. He has given away more than two billion dollars and is a signatory on the given pledge. Bernie is the author of the new book, Get Up Some Dust. Lessons on Thanking Big, Giving Back, and Doing It Yourself, which we will discuss in today's episode. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your host and

guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. [♪ Music playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, did the interview, I reached out to a number of the lowest executives who were there during the time that you led the Home Depot until the time you retired. And they all told me and wanted me to express to you how much overwhelming respect that they had for you and not only that, but how much you changed the whole retail environment around home improvement for the history of everyone who now benefits from it. Well, thank you. Thank that for your thoughts.

I will. Well, I was going to start out in this way. My girlfriend is a Russian Jew. Her great-grandparents came over who escaped what was going on during World War II. And I know this is a similar situation that you grew up in. And I wanted to ask you, how did that backdrop and growing up the son of immigrants create the person who you are today. Well, I think that everything that happens in your life has something to do with the character that you end up being.

And obviously, my parents for Russia immigrants, my father and mother came from the Ukraine and Russia. They were poor, sell, had no money. We had boys and the girl, three kids before me and the family. And if you read the book, you'll find out that the only reason I was born was as a medical experiment to keep my mother from being bedridden. And the doctor recommended that she have a baby. She miscarried once, but they managed again, but she was bedridden

during this time with rheumatoid arthritis. And so life was pretty, pretty, really. My father was a carpenter, a poor businessman, smartest hell with his hands, strong, they say like an ox. He struggled. Then he struggled with the family just feeding the family. In those days, going back to 1929, 30, 31, 32, 33, there was no food stamps. There were no things to fall back on. And so we lived the life of poverty. But frankly, for me, I didn't know it was poverty. I had a great time. I ran wild. I was the youngest of my family by far. Nobody paid attention to me. I ran where I wanted to do. I did what I wanted to do. And I just had to show up for three meals a day. That was my duty. Other than that, all the things I learned from my mother who had this room of toy after I was

and had the most positive outlook on life I've ever known. She was in pain 24 hours a day. And yet she was the most positive person I ever met. Jesus say, don't look back at failures. Don't count your failures. Don't waste your time on failures. Keep looking ahead, and this country, you can be anything you want to be. She said, you can be president of the United States.

And I said, oh, yeah, sure. I can be president. And I said, yeah, sure, I could be president. And I said, well, the truth is, yeah, we could have been when you see what's happening with Obama and other people who made it. But she just felt that this was the golden land. And that we should be appreciative of fact that this country gave us so much opportunity and she imbued this into us and along with the other thing was your Zidaka, was your girl for a may have mentioned to you, but it's this thing that Jewish people have about a passion, about giving back to society. If you look at the numbers and you look at the

philanthropy in the United States, the highest percentage of people giving the philanthropy are Jews and way out of proportion, they're like a half a percent in population, they are like 20% of philanthropy in the United States. So philanthropy has always been part of our life as a kid, and we carried it forward in my life. No matter what I did, I always felt the necessity to give back. And that's part of what the book is about. It's about building a business, but it's also about getting involved with philanthropy and making things happen. Well, I think this is a good time to show the book, kick up some dust. And I loved it because I loved how you intertwine the stories,

not only of your childhood, but along your whole journey, including what you've done philanthropically throughout it. So I thought that made it just come to life when you were reading it. So I highly encourage any of the audience to read this. It's a great take and you'll learn lessons that can apply to how you grow your career, how you can tackle some of the biggest obstacles that are in your life, great, better communities, and so much more. I started working when I was in fifth or sixth grade. I know you started when you were young as well. I had a paper out, but as soon as I possibly could, I think around 14,

I got my first foot in the door in retail, working in the grocery sector. How did that influence of you working at such a young age instill the commitment to hard work and going after novel ideas as you progressed your career? Well, just like you, I did it at a necessity. As I told you, I was a younger kid. I wore my brother's clothes. My brother's shoes didn't have fit me. I had a real problem. And I knew that if I had to get new shoes, I had to buy it myself. My parents could afford it. So I went to work. And I was working for a purpose. And the purpose was to take care of my own needs. And it was a serious matter. If I wanted a nice clothes, want to have a nice shirt, nice pants, I had to work for it.

And I learned early on that you have to learn how to work with people, that you can't be as smart as, even as young age, because I was a wild kid, you have to be deliberate, you have to be respectful of other people, and you certainly have to be respectful of other people's property. And then the other thing, as I moved up the ladder, the food chain, I began to realize there were people smarter than me. And the key was, how do I let that to be jealous of what they did, but how to learn what they're doing, what makes them successful? Why are they able to produce what they're able to produce and how they could become successful financially. And my key was always being successful financially, being able to take care of my family. I saw the struggles my parents went through.

I didn't want my kids eventually to have to go through that. So the key was, how do you make money? And to be very blunt about it, that was the real key. That was my stimulus. I like having good things and I like success. And I like to see what successful people got for it, nice houses, nice cars. And I was never jealous of it. I just want to know how the hell they do that. How do they manage that? Because everybody starts out at the same age,

the same process. So over the years, I listened, I studied, I was very careful about it. And it all became part of who I am, eventually became part of my guts and how I did that to myself. Okay well one of the stories that you bring up in the book was Mr. Chapter 11. Why was Mr. Chapter 11 legendary for all the wrong reasons?

Oh he was such a son of a bitch. He was so bad. He was so bad. He called himself mean the mean the merciless. That's it. He had an overstore, mean the merciless, which meant that's the way he conducted his life. And I'm on the opposite polar. I'm a builder. I try to build people. I try to train people. Make them grow. He's the type of guy you may one mistake and he would destroy your life. And he often said to me, when I gave her to somebody,

I don't just fire them, I destroy them. Physically, mentally, financially, and emotionally. Now, this is those four things. And I said, what kind of an anabolism. And I watched them over the years, and I worked on them because I was running a handy gun, which you probably remember in those days. It was a very successful chain,

but it was only 81% by Dillon, which is what Sandy Segalov had. And my key was to stay away from him as much as possible and keep him out of my hair because our company was a well-run company, successful, made money, grew people, had a wonderful, as a public company, we did very well. And, but he was a bad guy.

And when he finally, Guy Ritter basically was part of my fault as well. But he was a bad guy. And when he finally got rid of, basically, it was part of my fault as well. Ken Langone comes in a picture here. This is where Ken Langone came in. And Ken Langone became an investor in handy-dance stock. There was 81% owned by Dela and in 19% outstanding shares. Kenny bought almost all the 19%

and he became such a pain in the ass to Dillon that they had to get rid of him. And Kenny said, I'm gonna keep that 90% because I want you to keep running this company. And I said, Kenny, you're making a bigger stake. You could get more money for your man. He got into that stock about $2,000,000 a year. He sold out at $25,000, and he said, you're dead.

You are dead. It took about three weeks. And the Sandy fired me, Arthur Blank, who was my CFO, and Ron Drill, who was my CFO, and Ron Brill, who was the chief accounting officer. Kenny was a stimulus. And then when I called Kenny out, and I said, I got fired, and he said, what's the big surprise? I told you to get fired.

I predicted it. You were one that talked me into selling the stock. And he said, now you got hidden, they asked with a golden horseshoe, you should open the stores that you told me about. And it was a series of visits that he and I made to Houston, where we were opening a lot of stores. And he said, why are you opening so many stores? And I said, because somebody is going to open a store and put all these stores out of business. And he said, well, tell me about it.

And I said, I'm not telling you about it, because I'm the only one that knows about it. It's in my head. And if anything ever happens, I'll open that store. And he said, and I call, that famous call to me about you've been hitting the ass with a ghost. He said, let's open that store. He said, I'll help you raise money. And we'll get this thing started. I recruited author and Ron Brill. And we started the wheels in motion, started the put to concept of home depot,

and you know what happened. What we changed the whole theorem and retailing, the big box theory never existed before us. And frankly, the money was against us that we were gonna be successful. And very few people had a faith in what we're going to do because all the things we talked about, high volume stores, low overhead, buying direct revenue manufacturer, selling it to the customer at reasonable prices much lower than they were buying and teaching them how to do it themselves. And we invented to do it yourself business. Nobody had done that

before. We gave classes to women. We gave classes to men on everything electrical plumbing, all of basic things. Up until that time, people, if they had a leak in a toilet, had to call a plumber in. And then we cost a fortune, four or 500 bucks. They could fix it, well, for five, six, seven, eight bucks. And we taught them how to do it for that kind of money. So we created to do it yourself, Mrs. And that was the success of the home people. But he was a little story. But the one thing that came out of Sandy Ziegler is everything he did that was dumb, stupid. We learned not to do. We did just the opposite. He was like a professor who taught you who got up

and everything he said, you would reverse it and do just the opposite. And that's exactly what we did. Well, I want to take one step back before I go further into the Home Depot. And you said at that moment, when you were fired, it might have been the lowest moment of your Depot. And you said at that moment when you were fired, it might have been the lowest moment of your life. And you thought that there was less than a 50% chance that you could recover from it. And I'm sure other people have gone through huge career blows as well or life moments. Why did you feel that way? And what did it take from you to get yourself from that place to one where you thought you could recover? I will tell you it was a black moment. It wasn't easy. So I'm like, almost 50 years old. I had always been very successful. I worked with two guys from Harris. I was up on top executives at two guys. I ran three billion dollar businesses

as a young man. And I was very successful. And I didn't know what failure felt like. And to be out of work in one moment, we'll wall of the sudden your life changes. Well, it took an emotional impact on me. And very seriously, I mean, I was talking about this to somebody just a couple of days ago, I would go running. And as I was running, I would think about all the things that I did wrong. And then I said, I didn't do anything wrong. This is a misfortune that happened to me. do anything wrong. This is a misfortune that happened to me and I was going to give in to the sorrow. Now here's what I believe John, there are people in everybody's life where you end up with that kind of a situation where as an actual character breaker and how you react to it is whether or not you're going to survive. And most people live in the past.

What did I do wrong? Could I have done something better? Maybe this guy was after me. In other words, it's everybody's fault, but you're fault. And I never assumed that. By the way, that's part of my mother. My mother's taught me that. Move on. Just move on and just don't drown in your own failures. And so the key was not the drown here. And I will tell you, it took a couple of weeks.

It did take a couple of weeks because I never had this feeling of all of a sudden, out of work, no money coming into your family. And it was hard. It was hard. And all the people out there, I will tell you, if you dwell on the negatives, you're going to end up being negative for the rest of your life. You will not recover. You have to think about what you're really good at, what you're able to accomplish, what your characters and what your abilities are like, and you have to go for your strengths. And I think that can make a life. Well, I love that explanation. And I thank so many people can relate to being at that point in their lives.

So thank you for giving that explanation and how you were able to pull yourself out of it. And also that advice of keeping a positive outlook that your mom taught you. Well, for the listener who may be younger at the time, that you are coming up with this concept from Home Depot, you've got handy danna out there, you've got heckinger's, you've got lows, who was probably the biggest one at that time I had to guess, or one of the two biggest ones. But as you're saying, these were small format stores, a lot of them were in smaller city.

I think Lowe's was one of the first ones who even had some approach to a modern supply chain because Carl Buckham, who had originally founded the company, had Buckham supply stores that he would put on rail lines to connect the stores. So there's a lot of logistics in this business. I was talking a couple years ago to a friend of mine, Jim McHelvey, who founded the company Square. And Jim told me some great advice. And that is for any company's causes or entrepreneurs, is that you really need to find a novel problem that needs to be solved. And in the book, you refer to this as finding holes and filling them. And my question for you would be for someone out there who's

in one of these organization and or is an aspiring entrepreneur, how do you find these holes to fill up? Well, first of all, you have to know your business. That's number one. Number two, is don't buy your own bullshit. A lot of people buy into it. You're doing well and they don't attack it. I know that whenever we did very well, I tell you, John, when we had a good quarter, I was a beast. I was a beast because I knew that everybody would be sitting back and saying, wow, what a great quarter we had, knock ourselves out. My attitude was you better figure out what you did wrong. You didn't do everything right. You could have been a better at that point. So the key is always to be looking and listening very carefully.

Having the tune, it's like a doctor. A doctor, you feel good, and then all of a sudden you go to a doctor, and he puts a stethoscope on you, and he says, oh my God, you got a lung condition. Oh, I didn't have it before. Yes, you did have it before. You just didn't pay attention to it. The key here is that there's a lot of businesses

that have lung conditions. They have all kinds of conditions. They think they're doing well. They're not because people stop looking and actually become self-satisfied with what they have. Our thing has always been, I mean, the author, and I will tell you, the author, and I, self and Pat Farah always felt like we could do better, that there were things

that we could make happen that couldn't have happened. And I'm happy to say that Home Depot today has done all those things. I'm out of there 20 years. They have gone so far beyond me with a supply chain, as you talked about, John. One of the big deals is a supply chain, getting product to stores, getting product to customers, and they built a great interwoven system that does all of that, because they kept looking, and they are still looking.

The attitude of the management today is no different than it was when we were there, maybe better. And they're more concise, they're more precise, and they are not sticklers to hold them better. They do it. And companies that stay the same year after year, see as Roba, God, AMP, God, Hackensers, God, all of these companies are God, and they're God because they didn't look for the future. They didn't invest

money in the future. They didn't have the vision of what they should be. They just didn't have the vision and didn't understand what they want to be. At Home Depot, I'm happy to say we had some great people, just wonderful people around us. And it wasn't a one-man joke, believe me. It took a lot of people. And we had, as you drawn, we had some of the best virtues in the world. And certainly some of the best financial people

and also strategic people. That's why we are what we are today. Well, one of the things you talk about in the book is that many companies, when they look at payroll, they see it as an expense, and not as the most strategic asset that a company can have, how does looking at your people pertain to the secret of success that Home Depot had? It is just success. We are made up of right now 550,000 people who are running this company who are there

every day. Bust-in-the-buts, taking care of the customers, as long as they're all dedicated to the same thing. The key is not to have a bureaucracy. We have a financial group, a strategic group, and a PR group, and all of the strong of things that bureaucracy's have, to home people, to key things that the people people in the stores. They make the business. Right now as we're speaking, people are flocking into our stores by the thousands. And if they're not on their mark, if they are not on their toes, and they're not taking care of their people, we're going to lose those people, maybe to lose,

maybe to somebody else. So we don't own people. So we have to constantly take care of people and make sure they get what they came in for. People come into our store because they have a problem. And at home people, the key is to solve the problem and the people that solve the problem, other people that work for our associates. And we love them to death. And they prospered with us, by the way, with stock purchases and payroll and bonuses.

And we do everything in our power to keep them stimulated to continue doing it. They feel like they own a piece of the company. And that's why when you go to Home Depot store, you see so many people have been there, 15, 20, 25, 30. We just had somebody I spoke to 40 years, 40 years, working at the Home Depot, and still working at the Home Depot, and still working at the home people. What a great thing. Well, I'm going to use that as an entry way to describe the person who asked me to ask

you this next question. His name is Larry Stone. You may remember him. Larry worked for Loes for 40 years. He actually started in the mail room and ended in his last job as being the president and chief operating officer. And Larry wanted me to ask you, you did such an amazing job of keeping your culture. How did you maintain the culture you established from day one as the company grew so quickly and what kind of person who's building their own business

learn from your approach. I think you have to be consistent. I think you can walk all over the place. You got to be who you are. You have to stay that same kind of person. You have to be equal and fair. You got to be careful when you get in the middle of arguments that everybody knows you're on their side and that you're just solid through common sense. And the key is when I say me, it's not me. Then it goes back to all of district managers, all the head of the divisions, the people in the of the divisions, the people in the, all of these people have to believe the same thing that we love our people. Number one, we really love them. They're not the other people they're paying the essence. It's a problem. It's always a problem. Well, for us, they're not a problem. They are the asset that we have, the biggest asset we have, are the people we have in stores without a question.

And I think they trust us, and I think they love us as much as we love them. So the feeling is mutual. It's not, and you can't turn this big it. This is not the way, it just doesn't work that way. We do it because that's the way we lived our lives. We've always lived our lives the same way. As the Italian tell Larry that this started from day one,

and it's continued. We know it's successful. We feel good about it. Our associates feel good about it. And we're going to continue to do that. Whether we'll end up with a million people working for us, it'll be the same thing. We'll still have the same attitude because our management is all very consistent. We all believe Frank Blake, Craig Manier, and now Ted are all on the same page.

Craig Manier and now Ted are all on the same page. Well, something that I saw on Larry is something that I think you and your founders also had. And Larry would be the first person in the office and he'd be the last one to leave. He probably got there at 5 a.m. and he'd leave whenever he felt the job was done. And I know you guys worked 15 hour days as well. But setting that example, I think also cascades across the organization. Yeah. Yeah. Well you started Home Depot and just to put this in perspective for people during the time that Jimmy Carter was president. Interest rates were at all time highs in fact to buy a house or a member at that time, interest rates were double digit.

We are facing a similar crisis moment right now. I look upon the future in this looming recession that we have, and I just wanted to ask you since you live through a time like this, for someone who hasn't experienced this before, what are we walking into and what is some of your advice to people on steps that they should start to take or how to handle what's coming at us? Well, boy, that is a real tough one because we opened up into this and Jimmy Carter was the president and it was a nightmare to start with. So we started with a nightmare. In other words, we didn't have good times before we had this recession.

We had the recession. So we had to learn to deal with it. And our thing was to we had a big problem keeping vendors alive. And I don't know John, whether you know it, but many vendors we usually have to pay EOM and plus 30 days, et cetera, et cetera. We paid people a COD to keep them alive, manufacturers. There are many manufacturers who have made their manufacturers today who would be here today,

had to not been for home people on those days, paying the bills the day we received the merchandise so that they would have money to pay their employees and be able to keep their factories open. This is a nightmare scenario and it's not gonna get better. We got a year and a half to go with this guy in a White House and if he doesn't want to solve this energy crisis, we're going to go right down to God, damn drain.

Now, I'm just saying to all these people out there, we just finished today an election. And I think the American people look confused about which way to go. They have so many issues. They're not always voting with their minds, they're voting with their hearts, and they're making a very big mistake. For business people, you're just going to have to buck up and you're going to figure out a solution to it.

And the solution is different for every industry. The food industry has one problem. The manufacturers have another problem, retailers have another problem and everybody's going to have to come up with a solution that works for them. And hopefully within a couple of years we get to survive. Okay, well one of the things that you put into place was a customer bill of rights. that you put into place was a customer bill of rights. Can you just describe what that was and the effect that it had on how Home Depot operated? Yeah, the bill of rights was what you wanted and what you needed.

We were going to provide. And I can't put it in the words that we had, but it meant that we had a contract with you. You came into our store, you needed a product, or you needed a solution, that we would stay with you for that solution, make sure it happens and guarantee it. And act the last word is the key, stand behind it.

And I think people trust Home Depot. They know that's exactly where we come from. That we do stand behind everything. And I can tell you my own experience, how many experiences I've had over the years where it didn't make economic sense. But we backed the customer. The customer was always right. During the period, I guess, that you guys must have been very happy

when our deli was there. That was the one time we lost all of these things. The contract went to customer as well. But as soon as Frank Blake took over, it turned around, went back, and now we're on the same place that we go is one to be. Yes, well, I do have to admit, when we were having our senior executive meetings, we were hoping that Nardelli would stay as long as possible because I think- I know, I know that. I know it.

People out on your board told me that. They actually called me and said, you know, no, at least a pretty good guy. Why don't you keep them? Like, why don't I blow my brains out? Well, I love how you started to book out by describing the meeting that you had with Frank Plank. And one of the things I loved is that here he comes in, he's the CEO when you're advised to him, was that you have a prominent job at Home Depot, but it's not a significant one. Significant ones are the ones that are serving the customer, and this is something

that we always heard from the senior executives at Lowe's as well as that Headquarters doesn't have a cash register Our whole job in life is to support the associates so that they can do the best job possible to serve the customers And I think that was great advice Well, one of the things another Listener wanted me to ask you was, what are your thoughts of American retail, specifically? How do you believe retail jobs will evolve over time, given the pressure of living wages, automation, self-service, and government regulations that seem to be hitting businesses from all sides?

I wish I had a crystal ball. All I can tell you is that entrepreneurs that are be ready to handle anything. Retail won't continue if you don't have really great entrepreneurs that have abilities to strategically figure out how to overcome everything the government throws at you because it is you against the government. When we open, the government wasn't aligned against you as much as it is today. Today, they overregulate, they overtax,

they're involved with every part of your business, including your shareholders. It's so hard to run a business today. Well, somebody out there is going to figure out another way to do it, and a way to skirt it, and a way to beat all these things. I think that just like back at the holidays, people didn't think we could survive. They will survive, because somebody is going to be smart enough to understand that they have to change the way they conduct themselves, the way they build their business.

And also, I think one of the things they better start doing is understanding should get involved with government. I have been very much involved with government for years, fighting regulations. I hate this wonk generation. I just can't take them emotionally because they're destroying businesses in the United States by being woke, by going along with the crowd. And the crowd is basically against you. The crowd is trying to destroy your businesses and you're not smart enough to understand that.

So I think that along with strategic running your business, I started something called Job Creators Network, which is an outlet for small businesses, a voice in Washington for small businesses. I think they should join groups like this and have their voice because big companies, you take General Electric, General Motors Ford, all the internet companies, Metta,

they all have lobbyists in Washington. Small businesses don't have lobbyists. Loads has lobbyists. Loads has lobbyists. Home Depot has lobbyists. But small businesses don't. And they're going to get killed if they don't organize and fight back. 70% of retail in the United States is done by small businesses.

And yet they have no power whatsoever. So I think that they're gonna wake up one day and say we gotta join together. And we gotta fight for what we think is right. And only then would they convince the government to get the hell out of their air and let them run their businesses and let them prosper, let them hire people

and build wealth in the United States. That's what we need. Well, I see that even here in Florida where I'm at, I think you are as well, in that how many small businesses power this state, especially with tourism, yet they don't really have a lobbying voice up to Tallahassee, much less United you know, I'd state. So I think that's a great point.

I did have one last question that I wanted to ask about lows. What were your thoughts on that of the executive team when lows did launch their big box strategy where you kind of at Home Depot concentrated in many ways on the contractor, they were going after the female homeowner. So the stores looked a little bit different when they came out, wider, aisles, brighter. Did you view it as a threat at the time or what were your thoughts? It was very funny. Everybody came and ringed their hands like that. And I said, everybody needs a competitor. It keeps you stimulated. You don't have somebody that you're fighting against. You can't stay sharp. I said, this will cause us to be better,

to be smarter because now we got somebody to fight on the field. It's really a fist fight on a field on who's going to get the customer. And so we did adopt that feeling that it was a, we accepted them as competitors, but we knew we had to be better and we strove to be better. And I'm sorry to tell you this, I think we are in the most grocery specs. We're still the number one in the world and in a home improvement. And I think we'll continue to be that way. You can't be afraid of competition. Competition is good.

A guy who's running, you know, that proverbial mile. If he doesn't have a guy behind him, he doesn't go as fast. If he's got a guy right next to him running almost as fast as he is, he runs faster. And I think it's the same thing in any business. You have to have a good competitor. Okay. And I was going to end with you talking about this story. My mom worked for over two and a half decades at the Tennessee Aquarium.

She was actually employee number two. And I remember when Atlanta was talking about launching this aquarium, they were really afraid because it was gonna be this huge aquarium. It was gonna have all these exotic fish in it that they didn't have. And upon reading the book, I didn't realize you are at the heart of

that story. And I thought it was a good example. We've talked about Home Depot, but what did it take to put an aquarium of that prestige into Atlanta? Because I think people don't understand how difficult a task this end up being. Well, it was a labor of love. We wanted to do it for the people of Georgia. And we wanted to do it for our associates. And we were looking to do something that was going to be magnificent. So we traveled all over the world.

And we got the best ideas everywhere. And we incorporated it into the aquarium. And today the aquarium is the biggest in the world. It has about three million people a year coming through it. And it's been a joy. It's been a real joy. It's not a profit maker. It's a non-profit. We open it as a non-profit. and it was our gift to the city. And Billy and I, my wife and I were actively involved in every phase of it. In other words, we didn't just give it over to somebody to open it. We put everything that we knew into it. And we think it's made the city of Atlanta, now a mecca for tourism. We think it's changed the dynamics for the city of Atlanta and Georgia, and I think it's brought in billions of dollars

because the area around you where him has had an influx of buildings in the billions so it had an economic basis, because that's where we started. And this goes back to my mother, give back. This is a give back to Georgia. We came to Georgia, we're three guys, four guys broke. This was it, were you gonna make it?

Or were going down the drain? And I am so thankful that the people of Georgia supported us and gave us the basis to continue the growth that we did and something I had to do some to pay them back for what they did. And that's what the aquarium was all about. And by the way, if you haven't been there, John, do it. Tell your mother to go there. It'll be something great for her.

She definitely has been there. I have not, but it was built after the time that I lived in Atlanta. Well, Bernie, I wanted to thank you again for doing this, but I also wanted to recognize the way that you led the company. If people don't realize it, there were, if not thousands, maybe even more than that, who you turned into a millionaire because you set the company up that you would establish profits back to the employees. Had you not done that, you probably would be richer than Buffett and some of these other billionaires now, but I also wanted to recognize

you for your efforts in putting $2 billion plus into giving back into community, but more than that, the time that you've invested, which is probably more vital than that money and driving these causes that you have. So thank you for all that you've accomplished. Thank you, John. One of the things that I enjoy about the podcast, you maybe have some people out there who are sitting on a lot of money who are retired early in their 50s or maybe the early 60s or early 60s I'm 93. That's a kid. Why are you retiring when you're 60? You build the business or you you built your assets to a level and you use your brain to accomplish it. Why are you putting your brain to sleep? Why aren't you continuing and doing something for society?

Something that will give you a lot more appreciation than the return in dollars. Some of you have enough money. You don't need any more money. What you need to do is figure out where to selectively use the money you have to help other people's lives and maybe make a difference in the world. I got a great story for you. Yes, that I had a meeting with the Jonathan Simon and he tells me that the Marcus Stroke

Center protocols are being used all over the world. The entire state of Denmark uses our protocols. There are cities, Germany, they're using our protocols. They're using it all over the world. And these protocols are saving people's lives. And it really has to do with how you identify, how you attack, and how you treat people who are having a stroke. And you can save their lives if you follow these protocols and they become very successful. And he's coming up with the number. It's thousands and thousands of people that have been saved already

using those protocols. So here is something, listen, you and I grew up in the same business room, home improvement. What the hell are we doing with medical? Why are we in medical? But what I'm saying to the people out there that have money, there are a lot of people that don't have this experience. I gave you a good example is Mike Melvin. Mike Melvin was a Wall Street guy. What the hell is he know about medicine? Well, Mike Melvin decided that he was going to solve the problem of prostate cancer. And when he came on board, prostate cancer had a 50% fatality rate. Well, he has worked that for 15 years along with Jonathan Simon, by the way, who was now part of the Marcus Foundation. But Jonathan and Mike Millvin brought that down to 5%. Think about that.

That's incredible. Yeah. How many people have crossed-state cancer and died of it? And because of Mike Milken, that's not the case anymore. Well, that's the kind of thing. You don't have to have that experience. But you have to do is know what you're doing. Use common sense, be able to use your money strategically, get the right people and the right policy, and you could be successful also.

Trust me, we've done it without, we did it with the Marcus Authyzer Center, we did it with the Stroke Center, we're doing it now with Abelon, with treating veterans, post-traumatic stress, and traumatic brain injury. And so there are a lot of things you can attack that you can be successful at. Yeah, well, I'm glad you brought up the veterans since we're recording this a couple days before Veterans Day.

And I myself experienced combat injuries that resulted in me having traumatic brain injuries and post-traumatic stress disorders as well. So it is such an important initiative to help those veterans and others like them to get back to a normal life. So I appreciate all the work you're doing. I wish we could throw more work around pancreatic cancers, as well, which has become such a killer of so many and doesn't have very many outlets to provide their patients with hope.

Well, John, sorry to use several of this, but the truth is that in the United States or around the world, there is no treatment. Today, there is no protocol, but traumatic brain injury. There is none. So that if you're in the military and you suffered an IED explosion, came out, you know what you suffered, the headaches,

the sleepless nights, the nightmares, the pain, the problem with equilibrium. All of those issues, no one is able to solve, but we have a program and we have a closing place that started at Denver and we now have it in six different places in the United States. And my goal is open 50 so that eventually we'll have the country solve and we'll solve this problem the same way my milk is solved it for prostate cancer, for traumatic brain injury. Think about it. How many kids are playing baseball or basketball?

Well, girls now with polo, with volleyball, they're suffering traumatic brain injury every day and they get to the hospitals and they don't add a treatum. Well, our protocol, those add a treatum. And so we're trying to spread the word and we're trying to do it in a very intelligent manner so that we bring abroad people that really will follow the protocol, do it right, and eventually we

think will change the way it's treated in the United States. We actually have changed the way traumatic injuries treated in the United States. I believe that's going to happen. Well, another organization that I'll just bring up because I'm personally affiliated with it as a patient is the Warrior Angels Foundation, which was founded by two former Army veterans, one of them, a Green Bray, the other one, a helicopter pilot, and their protocols have also helped well over a thousand veterans take back their lives and reverse many of these symptoms that you're mentioning. So that would be another great collaboration, I think, between these two organizations. Very good idea because we're in an island by ourselves and there are smarter people out there. So we try to incorporate whoever has a good idea and

we have lots of things in the fire ready to go that also indicate. But the key to the book, look, it's not about talking about what I've done. I mean, it's all great. All of the things I did is terrific besides building a whole depot, but I'm trying to encourage people who haven't done anything. people who can do something, there's somebody out there, there's another Mike Milkin, there's another Bernie Marcus, maybe there's 50 of them.

We're gonna try to get to them because we need their brain power and we need to encourage this stamina and their strategic thinking. And if we can unlock that, a lot of them are so quiet. They think that charity means we just write a check. Well, any doubly could write a check. In fact, dummies do write checks.

But doing something and backing it up, that's a different story. Well, thank you again for doing this. And I just wanted to show your book one more time. We'll make it prominent in the video, but a great read. So many great lessons we covered just a tiny bit of them. I think this is a great book for anyone, regardless if you're just starting out in the middle of your career or even at the twilight of your career where you can learn from this and apply this to how you can help and serve humanity. Thank you, Aaron, for the promotion. I hope

people read the book and I hope there's somebody out there we could change their life and change your thinking and maybe get them involved to do something great in with their lives. That's really what it's all about. Well great, well thank you again for coming on. Thank you. I thoroughly enjoyed that interview with Bernie Marcus and I wanted to thank Bernie and Melissa Connors for the honor of having him on today's show. Links to all things Bernie will be in the show notes at PassionStruct.com. Please use our website links if you purchase any of the books from the guests that we feature on the show.

I'll proceed to go to supporting the show and making it free for our listeners. Videos are on YouTube, at John Armiles or Passion Struck Clips. Evertiser deals and discount codes are all in one convenient place at passionstruck.com slash deals. I'm at John Armiles on both Twitter and Instagram and you can also find me on LinkedIn. If you want to know how I book amazing guests like Bernie Marcus, it's because of my network. Go out there and build yours before you need it. You're about to hear a preview of the Passion Strike Podcast interview I did with Robert

Walden, who is an American psychiatrist, cycle analyst, and Zen Priest. He is a professor of psychiatry at the Harvard Medical School and directs the Harvard study on adult development, one of the longest running studies of adult life ever done. We discuss his book, The Good Life, which they'll be used next week. If you were going to make one choice to try to help yourself be happier and have a better life, just one choice it would be to invest in your relationships. And in some ways, it sounds obvious, it sounds trivial, but it's really important. What we find is that the people who take care of their relationships, who are more active in keeping in contact, who are more active being engaged

with other people, that those are the people who have better lives in so many ways. The fee for the show is that you share it with friends or family members when you find something useful or interesting. If you know someone who is wanting to learn a lot more about how to become an entrepreneur and the keys to the entrepreneurial spirit, definitely share today's episode with them.

The greatest compliment that you can give this show is to share it with those that you care about. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so that you can live what you listen. And until next time, live life-assioned struck. you