Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Claude Silver on the Courage of Being Yourself at Work | EP 682

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

What if the greatest transformation in your career doesn’t come from working harder—but from leading with more heart?In this week’s episode of Passion Struck, host John R. Miles sits down with Claude Silver, Chief Heart Officer at VaynerMedia, to explore what it really means to be yourself at work—and why authenticity, empathy, and belonging are the most underrated forces in leadership today.Claude has spent the past decade alongside Gary Vaynerchuk, pioneering a new model of leadership grounded not in authority, but in humanity. Her philosophy is simple yet radical: when people feel seen, valued, and safe to be themselves, everything changes—trust deepens, innovation flourishes, and culture transforms from the inside out.Together, we unpack the neuroscience of belonging, the silent tax of conformity, and why the future of leadership belongs to those brave enough to lead with love.This conversation continues our series The Forces That Shape Us—following episodes on gravity, doubt, luck, defiance, and communication—by uncovering one of the most powerful invisible forces of all: the human heart.👉 Read the full show notes here!🎧 Listen + Watch + Go DeeperAll episode resources—including guest links, my books You Matter, Luma and Passion Struck, The Ignited Life Substack, and the Start Mattering store—are gathered here: 👉 linktr.ee/John_R_MilesTo learn more about Claude Silver, visit claudesilver.comFuel your body with purposeGet 20% OFF BUBS Naturals Collagen — clean, NSF Certified, and veteran-founded. Use code PASSIONSTRUCK at bubsnaturals.com After checkout, tell them our show sent you!Feel younger, sharper, and stronger — from the inside outGet 20% OFF Mitopure Gummies from Timeline, powered by clinically proven Urolithin A. Head to timeline.com/passionstruck Your cells will thank you.🧠 About the EpisodeDiscover how Claude Silver is redefining leadership as an act of emotional bravery.Learn why “checking your humanity at the door” is the biggest barrier to performance.Understand the neuroscience of belonging and how psychological safety drives innovation.Explore Claude’s Three Habits of Heart-Led Leadership—emotional bravery, emotional optimism, and emotional efficiency.Hear how to bring authenticity back to work and create cultures where people feel seen, valued, and capable of making a difference.Join The Ignited Life CommunityIf this episode stirred something in you, The Ignited Life is where the transformation continues. Each week, I share behind-the-scenes insights, science-backed tools, and reflections to help you turn intention into action.🔗 Subscribe free at TheIgnitedLife.netSupport the MovementEveryone deserves to feel valued and important. Show it. Wear it. Live it. Visit StartMattering.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Coming up next on Passionstruck. Go and stand on the stage and show everyone who you are. And if that means you like to juggle and sing at the same time, maybe not. But try to dip your toe in with one or two people by sharing yourself. Or here you are and you have a coffee with someone and they share they're having problems in their relationship. And maybe you share where you are in your relationship. It takes some vulnerability. It takes some vulnerability.

But you're not going to know unless you try. You're going to assume maybe from watching other people that, oh, they're not accepted. They're not accepted. We have no idea what's going on with other people. But you can control you. And so what I would say is try it. Welcome to Passionstruck. I'm your host, John Miles.

This is the show where we explore the art of human flourishing and what it truly means to live like it matters. Each week, I sit down with changemakers, creators, scientists, and everyday heroes to decode the human experience. and uncover the tools that help us lead with meaning, heal what hurts, and pursue the fullest expression of who we're capable of becoming. Whether you're designing your future, developing as a leader, or seeking deeper alignment in your life, this show is your invitation to grow with purpose and act with intention. Because the secret to a life of deep purpose, connection, and impact is choosing to live like you matter. Welcome, friends, to Passion Struck episode 682.

I'm John Miles, your host, and I am so glad you're here. Whether this is your first listen, or you're one of the more than a third of our audience who comes back week after week. You're part of a movement to create a world where people feel seen valued and like they truly matter. If this show has ever helped you see yourself more clearly or take a step toward living more intentionally, here's how you can help it grow. First, share this episode with someone who needs it. Second, leave a five-star rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It's the single best way to help others discover these conversations. We're continuing our series of forces that shape us,

an exploration of the invisible dynamics that guide how we think, lead, and live. Last week, Dr. Sanita Saw showed us the hidden power of defiance and how saying no can realign us with our values. And then on Thursday, I was joined. by Pulitzer Prize winner Charles Duhigg, who revealed how the quality of our conversations determines the quality of our relationships. Today, we turn to another vital force, belonging. We spend most of our waking hours at work, yet so many of us still feel unseen, unheard, or undervalued, which begs the question, what if the real key to performance and fulfillment

isn't perfection but presence, not control, but connection. That's why I wanted to bring you this powerful conversation with Claude Silver, the world's first chief heart officer at VaynerMedia and the right hand to Gary Vaynerchuk. Claude's new book, Be Yourself at Work, The Groundbreaking Power of Showing Up Standing Out and Leading from the Heart, is a roadmap for transforming workplaces into communities where people truly belong. In this episode, we explore why belonging isn't a corporate person. It's a basic human need.

How emotional bravery helps you lead without losing yourself, while culture is built in the small unseen moments that reveal who we are, and how each of us can leave what Claude calls a heartprint that ripples far beyond our own workday. If you've ever questioned whether you can be strong and soft, this episode will remind you that the best leaders in humans are both. For deeper reflection and tools to apply what you hear today, Subscribe to my substack newsletter, The Ignited Life at theignitedLife.neted.com. Each week, I share practical guides,

workbooks, and insights to help you live with greater purpose and intention. Before we dive in, a quick reminder, my upcoming children's book, You Matter Luma, is now available for pre-sale. You can find links to it in the show notes. It's a story about kindness, courage, and discovering the ripple effect of knowing you matter, a perfect companion to today's theme on belonging. Now, let's step into episode. episode 682 with Claude Silver. Thank you for choosing Passionstruck and choosing me to be your hosting guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. We all want to feel younger, sharper, and more energized, but most of us are still running on low battery. I know the feeling. As someone constantly exploring tools, to live longer and

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My friends at Timeline are offering 20% off just for my listeners. Head to Timeline.com slash Passionstruck to get started. Your cells will thank you. As a veteran and the son of a former UDT frogman, Bubbs Naturals instantly resonated with me. It's more than a supplement brand. It's a legacy. Bub's is named after Glenn Bubb Doherty, a Navy SEAL,

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Code Passionstruck at checkout. Just head to BUBS Naturals.com and use code Passionstruck, and you're all set. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. I am absolutely thrilled. to have Claude Silver back on Passionstruck. Welcome, Claude. How are you today? Oh my gosh. It's so great to be here. You were just telling me, I was the first podcast we did. I was in the first 120 batch, and now you're in the 600th. So I'm great and honored to be back.

Thank you so much, John. It's pretty amazing to think in just that short period of time, because it's only been three years since we did episode 101. But I have to think for you in those three years, a lot has changed for you professionally and personally. What's one big thing looking back that's different from three years ago? Well, I have kids that are growing. I've got an almost seven-year-old and a four-year-old. So when we last spoke, I probably had a, what, a three-year-old and a one-year-old. So that's, I would say that's different for sure,

just in terms of just watching their evolution and evolving with them and watching myself as a parent and trying to give myself some grace being a parent. that's one thing for sure. And I think the other thing is I've just gotten extremely grounded on what my mission is within the workplace. But really, when I talk about work, I'm talking about life. I've heard you mention that one of the key things that you want to give is not only service, but to give joyful service. Is that what your mission is really about? My mission is to be of joyful service each and every way I can be. And in the workplace, ideally it is the aspiration is to help people remove shame so they can thus remove the masks that

they carry. And if we put it down and to come down from that aspirational level, it's really to help people find ways to become more authentic with themselves at work so that they can enjoy work that much more and enjoy themselves at work. That's awesome. And we're going to unpack a ton of that. I just had to mention to you since you brought up your kids. I am actually coming out with a children's book in February for ages, four to eight. So I'm going to have to send you a copy, but it's titled, You Matter Luma. And it's the story of a little bunny name Luma who feels like her voice doesn't matter. And so it talks about her journey to becoming authentic in her life as this little bunny and developing friends and sharing her story to the world.

That is going to change little kids' lives right there because the message, but also because you're using a bunny, which everyone loves. That's awesome. Well, thank you. And I owe it to your partner, Gary Vaynerchuk, for inspiring me because I interviewed him about his children's book and about V-Friends, his whole ecosystem. And I'm like, why don't I try to reach kids as well? because I think they're not being shown really the values that we really need to instill in them.

And Gary was that push that got me to do it. Amazing. Well, he's a push for many of us to do a lot. I'm really excited to see the books. I'm very excited. Speaking of books, what we're here to discuss today is your brand new book coming out from Harper Business, be yourself at work, the groundbreaking power of showing up, standing out, and leading from the heart. And speaking, well, first, congratulations on that coming out into the world.

I know how exciting it is to launch a book. Thank you. But speaking of Gary, he wrote a forward for your book. And there's a moment that he describes where you were questioning your role in advertising. And you told him that you just cared about the heartbeat of this place. Can you take us back to that moment and what was going on and how that transaction? transformed, really, your life and what you're doing at VaynerX? Absolutely.

It was a huge pivotal moment in my life. I had been working in London for the past four years, running digital strategy with some very large, like, global brands. And I had followed Gary since 2009. So this was about 2013, end of 2013 when we met. I knew if I was going to stay as a strategist, the one thing I didn't have was the social expertise. So no matter what I knew I wanted to be around this guy, we were introduced and I was like walking back and forth in my kitchen in London, a little bit nervous. And we had a three minute

conversation and you've had conversation with Gary. Within three minutes, you're like in love with the person. He's just, he's so real. He's so present. So I came to New York and we met over coffee and we really just talked about our belief in people and humanity and possibility. And just we just shared ourselves with each other. So I started at Vayner in 2014, May of 2014, and I was an SVP. I was one of the oldest people at the agency, which meant I had a lot of lived experience as well as work experience. And I ran our largest account at the time, which was Unilever, had a great team of about 60 people. And also because I had a lot of experience in the agency world, Gary had me going to all the other offices and checking in and making sure people were okay. And just like giving it some

kind of like, what's the emotional barometer here? What's the emotional barometer, right? Because he and I are very big on EQ. And about a year into my career at Vayner, it just dawned on me that what I loved doing, I didn't feel like a job at all, is being with the people, is really finding out what makes them tick, what makes them talk, what makes them stop, where their imposter syndrome is, why they're cynical, what do they want to do? What do they want to do with their great big life? And what I didn't like anymore, what I didn't enjoy anymore, was figuring out how to get this into your hands. It didn't matter to me sitting next to a client. And I lost the love. Is it all capitals? Is it cursive? It doesn't matter to me. So I went to Gary and I said,

I love it here and I love you, but I'm no longer interested in advertising. And Gary being a man of entrepreneurship and possibility, looked right at me. And he said, what do you want to do? And I said, I only care about the people. here. I care about the heartbeat of this place. Heartbeat, the culture. And he said, all right, I need you to do this job for 18 more months. And he doesn't remember me saying, I'll give you six. But I gave him six months. And I found my backfill and tied everything up in a nice bow and then went in and really officially resigned, which was very difficult to do because I not only love Gary, I appreciate him, I admire him, I look up to him. He inspires me. So it was really not just,

just like resigning to any old person. It was resigning to a person that I love. And he'll tell you that while I was resigning, he was thinking of how to bring me back. That's what happened. Three months later, we had breakfast. We sat down and we created this role together. But the pivot for me was understanding and really getting real with myself that the role of client service, the role of being a client partner working in advertising was no longer feeding me. And in fact, I felt myself shrinking. I just felt my light going out. And I imagine I had done it for many years and I really loved it.

But I fell out of love with it. And it was clear that I had to break up with advertising. So it was a big pivot because it had been my career now there for about 18 years. And I was just extremely clear on whatever I did next would be in the coaching sphere, whatever I did next would just be with people, whether or not I went back to school and finished an MSW or whatever it was. I just wanted to be around people and watching them grow and develop and spread their wings. I love that story. And it reminds me of something that that Gary said in the forward, which is sometimes your decisions make no sense on paper, but make all the sense of heart.

and that's really what you just described. It's a time you had to choose heart over a spreadsheet or you chose doing something you cared for more than the financial outcome of what had driven you for so long. That's exactly right. And so I never forget the day when he reintroduced me to the company

and I was hiding back here in the stairwell and he had this big all hands and the way he introduced me was to say she will do things that do not matter on paper but they matter on heart she will be the extension of me in all of those rooms and he was so clear on that he was just crystal clear and that was that's it it's never been i don't want to say it's never felt like a job in my in the last 10 years it has there have been rough times but it is something i am so grateful that i get to do every day. I love that story. And Gary often talks about culture as a competitive advantage. And I don't

think people understand this enough. I saw it firsthand between my time working for Lowe's home improvement and then transitioning to Dell. When I was at Lowe's, we had our core values. As soon as you walked into the headquarters, they were around the walls. So you could see them visibly. But what really struck me was that anytime Robert Niblock or Marine or a chief human resources officer or any of the sea level executives would get up in front of a people, they would highlight one of the core values

and really talk about it. And then when I went to Dell, Dell had four values as well, but no one ever talked about them. And to me, there was a huge difference in cultures because there's one thing about living your culture and living your values. and there's another about just having them and then doing nothing with them.

So long lead in to how do you see be yourself at work contributing to the future of leadership and this competitive advantage? Yes. Wonderful question. And I just want to say, I agree with you. It's one thing to have your values up on the wall. It's another thing when people see that on the wall and they understand how to bring that to life, how they can bring that to life. John can bring it to life this way. Claude brings it to

life this way. It's still under the umbrella of kindness, right? And it becomes a habit for us. When things become actionable and we make it a habit, then I feel like you can really soak the values in. Then you're really living those values. Otherwise, you're just cheap and cheerful. Oh, empathy and respect. Okay. I've always thought about that because we want people to embody the values, not just read them off the sheet. And so when I think about being yourself at work and what I'm what I am proposing, it starts with self-awareness. So it's not just a, it's not just a magic elixir that someone can say, I'm going to be myself today. I think one needs to really understand what that journey is about. And that journey is allowing yourself of being, first and

foremost, accepting who you are, nuts and bolts. And then allowing and empowering yourself to be that, to share that with the company. When you share that with the company, rather than hiding or putting on a mask, I guarantee there is not only just more camaraderie and friendship, there's more enjoyment in the work. There's certainly more creativity and collaboration. There's certainly more connection because you find someone that's just like you. Oh, you like that too. I never would have known because I had the shield on and I never wanted anyone to get too close to me. So what we know is, I don't remember who said this in the while back. People are our greatest asset. Well, I disagree. People are your company. In order to have a thriving company, I believe you need to

have heart, emotional intelligence infused into the walls and the water of that company so that it becomes something that people are ingesting and they understand that this is how you thrive at this company. By being real, what is what you get? Rather than, I'm here, I'm Claude today and tomorrow I'm going to be Amanda because that's my middle name and Amanda's very different than Claude. And the ROI, and this is what your question was about, the ROI is measure. Well, it is something we're trying to measure, but right now it's exponential. We all know, yes, okay, less absenteeism and more retaining of your top talent, which you want, but also the ability to recruit top talent in, whether or not that's word of mouth or that's just through our LinkedIn or whatnot,

because everyone knows we've got a culture that's going somewhere. We're not stagnant. We've got a culture that is made up of 2,000 plus people, for the most part, being themselves and having great creativity, not only are they thriving, the business is thriving. I'm glad you brought that up. I recently did a solo episode. I can't remember if it was 657 or 660, one of those two episodes. I did it on something I call the fragmentation gap. And what I meant by this is we tend to live our life.

today in different fragments. Like we show up as one person at work. We show up as another person in our families. We show up as another person to our friends. And then we show up in the quiet moments when we're looking in the mirror as our true self, wondering why we're letting these other fragments take over who we really are. And so I think what you're saying is so important. You learn this at an early age. And your introduction, which I want to tell the audience, is really raw and real. I thank you for being so vulnerable in it. You share this 19-year-old Claude who's searching for freedom and belonging.

And you have this wilderness instructor who tells you, Claude, you better get another song in your head. What was it about that analogy of a song? Made me think of the song remains the same with Seppelin when I heard it. Music has always been something that speaks to me. It speaks to everyone. And while I don't have a photographic memory at all and I struggled through school, I can remember song lyrics and I don't know how, whether or not it's the 50, 60s, 70s and more. Like I always got something going on up here. So music for the most part is what has, I would say, always given me somewhat of a security

blanket that I could get through anything. In that moment, when she came to talk to me and I was crying and just praying, I would break my leg, praying that the next step, I would twist my ankle and I would have to quit this venture and go back home and be self-sabotaging. She called my number. She called me out. She said, what is going on in your head? And I said, oh, I'm singing that nine-inch nail song. I had like a hole.

Black is your soul. I'd rather die than give you control. Pretty dark. Pretty dark. And she didn't say to me, well, you're messed up. She didn't say to me, whoa, I don't know if you're right for this trip. She didn't say to me, get your act together. She met me where I was.

I said, I have a song in my head. And she said, you better get another song in your head. So she met me right there. And there was something about that, I guess, I've never actually said it like this. There was something about that moment where I felt seen because she met me where I was that gave me the, all right, you can do this. Get up that mountain. Go.

Just go. And I did. And I still hated it for the next probably three days. But then I got with the groove and I understood, oh, okay, only I can change this. Only I can change this, the lie going on in my head and the darkness or the imposter syndrome. but she met me. And that is, A, I've never really had that realization out loud. And B, it's something, it gives me the chills because it's something I aim to do every day, which is meet people where they are, not expect them to come to me and try to speak Claude language. It's

me trying to meet them and speak their language, be with them. Hang tight. We've got more from Claude Silver coming up right after the break. Please support the brands who make passion Struck possible. It's one of the best ways you can help the mission reach more people. You're listening to Passion Struck on the Passion Struck network. All right, let's dive back into this conversation with Claude Silver. And I just have to reflect on that song you just write up for a second because I remember the first time I heard that I was at the Naval Academy. I was a youngster, which is a sophomore, for those not familiar with the term. terminology. And I was doing this radio show that I did for a few years with my buddy, Todd

Krulak, and Todd said, I'm going to introduce the audience to this new band called Nine Inch Nails, and he played that song. And I just remembering, listening to him going, what in the world is this? It was so different at the time from anything else that was on the radio. So different. I love that story. It was so that. And I actually think Nine Inch Nails, I probably really enjoy it. I just don't listen to that dark music anymore. I don't have that need, but that is funny. You and I are Gen X or so. We heard it right at the same time. So for many of the listeners here, I want to tune it to them. They probably feel stuck in environments, possibly at work where showing up feels a little bit risky. What's your advice

for someone who's afraid to be seen at work. Yep, I was like that. I was one of those people, by the way. Many of us are. The first piece of advice is you're never going to know unless you try. I'm not preaching. Go and stand on the stage and show everyone who you are. And that means you like to juggle and sing at the same time.

Maybe not. But try to dip your toe in with one or two people by sharing yourself. Or here you are and you have a coffee with someone and they share they're having problems in their relationship and maybe you share that where you are in your relationship it takes some vulnerability it takes some vulnerability but you're not going to know unless you try you're going to assume maybe from watching other people that oh they're not accepted they're not accepted we have no idea what's going on with other people but you can control you and so what i would say is try it that's the first thing see how it goes you will definitely meet

someone that is going to accept you and see you. That we know for sure. The world is very big. The world is very big. The second thing that I would suggest doing, and this is something I did, one of the agencies I worked out and worked at in London, was I went ahead and I did a little bit of my own test. And I started a book club, small book club, three people, then it got to five, then it got to seven, never grew more past seven. But what I did, is I found people who had similar interest in me. Books, pretty easy. And that's what I did.

And I did it as a test to see if I could find friends, but also I did it as a test to see if this would change the culture in any kind of incremental way. And it did because it created connection. That's what happened. It did because it created some kind of conversation about a book. We weren't talking about ourselves and our eyebrows and our wrinkles. we were talking about our thoughts on this book.

So those are two things that I would definitely try. The change most likely has to start with you. I don't expect any company to all of a sudden be like, yes, everyone be themselves. Companies, organizations aren't like that unless you have a wonderful leader like I do, who is, who he is who he is. So first and foremost, get comfortable with what you might, dip your toe into and what you might feel is safe enough to share that you don't feel so exposed find one or two friends so forth and so on and the other thing is you don't even have

to talk about things that you're vulnerable with you can start a book club you can start a baking club you can start a slack channel and talk about sneakers you can do anything like that there will always be people who are similar-minded to you always a couple things you just said there. As I was preparing for this, I was listening to a couple of your past interviews that you've done. And one of them, you were talking about how one of the things that you and Gary obviously are concerned about is when you have an exit interview. And one of the things you talked about that you implemented is you do an interview. I think you mentioned it was just three questions when someone is in their first like three to four months. Yeah. And one of those questions

I had to do with something you were just talking about. Outside the group that you're working in, have you met other friends or other people that you align to? When I heard it to parent, I was thinking it's an interesting thing because often it is those communities of people that we feel comfortable with, that we connect with, that make us stay and thrive where we are.

And if we're not meeting those people, why is that happening? When you ask that question and you get the answer, they haven't met any friends. What do you do about it? Well, here's my list of 10 people for you to meet. I can't wait. Let's write up two or three sentences on yourself, maybe throw in a hobby or so. And I can't wait to introduce you to those people. So what I mean is I have a list and I've been capturing this list now for 10 years of what I call culture champions, culture champions. They are people that I know. I can send you to, John, if you are having a bad day, a bad moment, something happened and that you got a terrible

review from your boss. Something's happening at home and you're having it, whatever it is. I know I can call someone in the LA office. I can slack someone in the London office right now and say, hey, when you have a second, can you go reach out to John and just go take him for a walk and a coffee? Now, that's one scenario. The other scenario is John and I meet. I send out a note, hey, meet my new friend John. He's a social media strategist. Here's a little excerpt. I met John today. And then I'm writing, hey, John, please meet my new friends. But, but, but, blah, blah, blah, blah, but, hey, everyone, please make sure you get time with John in the next three months, get at least 15 minutes. And so right there is,

and I usually do it on Slack or email. So right there, I'm connecting. And you should see people, oh, I can't wait to get time with. Hey, welcome, John. Hey. And it's so wonderful because that's how the culture grows. That's how it scales. Right. It's not meeting me as one thing, but people oftentimes do come to me to say, who else should I meet here? Or I'll say, have you connected with someone on Team Gary? They really are doing some innovative things on AI and you might want to talk to them. One of the great things about being in this position for so long is that I know a lot of people now across the globe. And so I will say, John, I understand you're on this alcohol brand. Let's get you to talk to someone that's on banking. Let's get you to talk to someone who's doing

something for AT&T, I don't know, there might be a shared interest there. That's really it. The connective tissue at Vayner is what it's all about. And it really is a connective tissue. That's what makes us strong. And when it bifurcates, then we need to double, triple down on being present. One of the things you talk about in the book is the importance of having emotional pillars. And you talk about emotional optimism, emotional bravery, emotional efficiency. Can you walk us through what they mean, but more importantly, why they're so powerful when they come together? Yeah. So emotional optimism is actually where I started all this because I am an emotional optimist, meaning I am an optimist, but I also know and can feel when I'm sad. I can feel when

things are up and down. I'm not always at a high. I'm dipping and diving just like everyone else. The emotional part means I can accept that the emotions are here, but I don't need to become the emotion, number one. And number two, not only do I not have to become the emotion, I know that Claude has the ability to get through it, whether or not I have the ability to get through it with myself, or I bring in some support, I bring in some friends to do it, but I don't have to stay at the bottom of the ocean. I know that tomorrow will be a new day. That's the optimist. So it's really based around and understanding that I can control me. I cannot control anything else, but I can change the song in my head, right? Emotional bravery is taking action even when it's

scary, taking action when say you had that chat with your friend and you're like, oh, I had a terrible review with that person. And the friend says, you know what, why don't you write down the five points that you want to go back and talk to your manager about? You do it with them. And then the next day, they take a brave action based on emotions. They're scared. They disagreed. But they take action, which is movement. And we need movement in order to feel like we're growing and we're doing something, right? Motion. That's emotional optimism and emotional bravery. And emotional efficiency is when we get to speed, as an individual, I'm able to get through my emotional dips much, much faster because I accept them and I don't have to dwell on them.

I can get faster. And in teams, we have built resilience together. You know what makes me tick and talk. I know what makes you tick and talk. So when push comes to shove, we don't need to get into the drama of it all. We can get through that drama much quicker just by, okay, I get it. I hurt your feelings. That's on me. I'm really sorry. Okay, are you excited? Okay, great, let's go. Rather than some kind of gossip train going, cloud hurt my feelings and cloud hurt my feelings.

The next thing you know, you're playing a game of telephone and I don't even know what the story is. So efficiency is so important because if I go back to what I just said in terms of emotional bravery, we want to go. We want to move. People don't want to stay stagnant for the most part. And they certainly don't want to stay stagnant in the workforce because people are always trying to climb that ladder. So these three pillars are a flywheel. They're happening in a day. They're happening in a minute. They're happening in a month. They're happening whenever you can take notice of them. But first and foremost is having self-awareness. And that's really where the book starts, which is understanding yourself and understanding what is the, how are you punishing yourself and how are you holding

yourself back when you choose not to show up? And we all know if you get real, you all know how you do that. So those are the three pillars that have always, I would say kept me grounded, but also kept my eye on a prize. Prize is going forward. And oftentimes when I'm in the workplace, when I'm sharing this, I'll say to people like, you see this in invisible ink. John, you have it too. It says, help me grow. That's what we want to do. So this framework really is to help us grow and get out of whatever doldrums we're in because we all like to stay there for a long time. I love what you just said, and it also ties back to the previous answer you had when you said that when someone is in that position where they haven't met someone at work. It really starts with yourself.

And this really resonates with me because I often talk about self-awareness being the cornerstone of what I call mattering because we can't feel like we matter if we first don't know ourselves and we don't feel like we matter. because if you don't feel like you matter, it's going to be hard to get someone else to make you feel like you matter. That's right. I'm going to tie this into your book because you write similar, similar but a little bit different,

that belonging is a verb, and I love that. How do we create this feeling of belonging on a daily basis, especially in a work environment where it could be hard to feel that way? Right. So it's a two-way street.

How do you create? belonging for yourself, and how does the team or the organization or culture create belonging for you and others? So it's a two-way street. How you create belonging for yourself, I truly believe, is by being authentic. And that's what we already talked about. How I feel like the organization or your team or another can, another, me, can create belonging for you is fairly simple and straightforward. It's by being present. It's by listening. It's by showing you I'm listening, whether or not we're on a Zoom or we're in the room, right? Showing body language, whatnot. I also have to get very clear that I'm not here to judge you. That's not my job.

My job is X and your job is Y. And I want to make you feel like you matter, like you belong, like you have a home here. So psychological safety is extremely important. And psychological safety at its core means you, the person, feel safe enough to speak. up. You feel safe enough to speak up without someone interrupting you, which happens all the time, interjecting, talking over you, ignoring you. And that, listen, at a workplace, just like in a family, it's all, there's a lot of, dare I say dysfunction, but there's a lot of stuff that goes on. And it's not everyone is at their best every single second of the day. There is going to be someone that's going to jump in and interrupt you. That is going to happen. However, and this is

what I said in the beginning. You got to dip your toe into things. You've got to take chances and see if it really is going to suck because you think it is. Or are you going to be pleasantly surprised that, wow, I just had the greatest 15, 30 minute talk with John because he was so present. He was so present. The other thing is we don't have to have all the answers. That's where I think some of this goes awry. leaders feel, I think for the most part, we feel like we have to have all of the answers, but I'm not any smarter than you. The only thing I have is different lived experience than John. But I'm not any smarter. Yes, you are in the Navy. You understand how to, you know,

how to steer subs. Okay, I don't. So I'll never know that. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about emotional intelligence. Hopefully, yeah, that answer. Sorry to interrupt you. It's really the one thing I say on repeat is every single person is allowed to take up space. You are allowed to take up space. You are hired for that reason. You are not hired to sit in the corner. You were hired because you had something that we wanted, which was your curiosity, your intelligence, your vibe, your whatever it is. We hired you for a reason. So please share. So I want to talk about psychological safety a little bit more since you brought it up.

And if anyone wants to do a deeper dive into this, they can also listen to my interview with Amy Edmondson, an incredible professor at Harvard Business School. But if people aren't familiar with it, there's another thing that they can look at, which is Google's Project Aristotle, which found that psychological safety is the number one predictor of team success. doing what you do, if there's a leader out there listening, how can they start to create psychological safety in their team? Is there like one step you would recommend?

There are several steps, but the one step I really recommend is to get very honest with yourself about how you show up every day as a leader. Do you show up as the smartest person in the room? Okay, well, that's a deterrent. Do you show up like this? Hey, John, what's going on? How are you doing?

Not interested and busy? How do you show up? And how do you know you show up like that? That's one of the things I will say immediately. Because if you think you show up, like, all right, guys, let's go, let's go. I'll tell you right now. One of the things I just said might have offended someone because I said, hey, guys, let's go. We have to be so careful right now.

I should just say, all right, team. let's go, right? There's someone who's going to say, I'm not a guy, because that's the world we live in right now. So we have to be aware. You and I continue to come back to self-awareness. We have to be aware. How are you showing up and how do you know you show up like that? And maybe get someone to mirror back to you, right? And then, of course, it's listening. But I always say it's listening to do something. as leaders we are asked to take the ball they gave us the ball and take the ball and do something with this ball maybe maybe move it up the field for them maybe show them it's possible to move it up the field but people come to us as leaders because they need something to happen outside of just being heard

and being listened to which is the utmost and really being understood really being understood And it's so easy, because I've been there too, it's so easy to judge yourself through another person's eyes, I bet you he thinks I'm dumb. Well, he probably's not really thinking about you, Claude, right? He's probably not thinking too much about you. She probably thinks I'm silly and it's dumb. She's probably not thinking about you, but you're thinking about how dumb you are. You're putting a lot of energy into that, Claude.

It's just this mirror that I believe we need to hold up and be brave enough to hold it up and say, okay, yes, I'm not perfect, but I like what I see and I have things I can work on, but I'm really going to double down on my strengths. And my strengths are I'm a good person. I lead with empathy. I feel like I'm generous with my time, those types of things. It's pretty simple if you can just get out of your head and into your heart, and your body and just get real because I don't think I ever talk about anything that isn't

common sense. And when I say common sense, I understand it might not be common to everyone, right? But I'm meaning just the things we learn about that your book is going to help us with, your children's book. We learn how to be kind. We learn how to share. We learn how to emotionally regulate in these early years, right? Or we don't learn how to emotionally regulate. And then we can see how that person ended up at work and spilled their emotions everywhere. And it's just fascinating. I think behavior is really incredibly fascinating and is such a two-way street. Yeah.

Wow. So the whole children's book is all based on behavioral science, which is embedded in it. You wouldn't see it outwardly. But one of the major concepts that I have embedded is this whole idea of ripple effect, trying to teach kids that their actions can create ripples, especially acts of kindness. How do you see those small acts rippling through a company culture like you have with Vayner? Because sometimes people think, my act of kindness isn't going to matter to anyone else.

But ultimately, these things can spread globally. Globally. Well, we already know that emotions are, you can catch emotions from others. You can catch emotions. It's been proven. HBR did a study on it like in 2015. team. When you share attention, when you give someone attention or they give you attention, it unlocks serotonin in our brain, that hormone is serotonin, which gives us a feeling of calm

confidence, which gives us a feeling of happiness, which gives us a feeling of I can do this. It's like eating a chocolate bar. Ah, yeah, it's good. When you give someone generosity, which I believe is more of an energy than attention, it unlocks oxytocin in our brain. And the oxygen oxytocin is what you what newborns get with their moms immediately it's a sense of belonging when someone gives you that or attention and there are studies here too people take notice and it is a ripple effect when you when john gives attention to joe and i'm standing there i'm picking up on it i might even be smiling and i have no idea what you're talking about but it feels good there's a good vibe there and that spreads.

One of the things that I love is when I'm in the hallway at Vayner or I'm in the kitchen and I hear noise, I love it. People are mingling, people are sharing, right? They are like in and out and the kitchen is not that small, so they have to be really on top of each other.

So the ripple effect is absolutely real and I really believe like one of the things I say, if we go back to leadership a little bit, I say, bad leaders leave a mess, which, by the way, ripples. Good leaders leave a mark, but great leaders leave a map. Oh, I love that. And we want great leaders.

The map, leaving a map is a very selfless act to do if you think about it. Leaving a map is what Gary does, what I hope I do, which is I work for you. Let me just give you this. So speaking of this global environment, I want to go back to my time at Dell. And back at this time, I was Chief Information Officer, and we had this global project to implement a new quote-to-cash system. And if you think about a company like Dell where you're selling a lot of things, this quoting system impacts a lot of people.

I think it was like 40,000 people on six continents. And we were running into so much pushback because Dell was one of those companies where it went from global systems to localized to global to localized and now we wanted to implement another global system again and people were pushing back. And it makes me think of your concept of team citizenship and why it's so important. And in the book, you introduce rules of team citizenship and I was hoping you might be able to talk about them and maybe introduce one that people struggle with more than others. Yeah. And let me get the book. Hold on page 90. 99. Good citizens make good teams. You know this from being in the armed forces.

Talk about a team. Talk about having to show up with others. So it's in part two, which is called showing up with others. And let me give you some examples. So showing up with others in the context that I'm talking about it means being okay with showing your flaws too. It means just being okay with being you. It also means that. being someone people would want in the room. So being someone that either that offers something to that room, whether or not it's value, whether or not its presence, whether or not it's psychological safety,

whether or not it's an energy. So one of the things that I talk about is the appreciation circle, which I think is a really wonderful way to appreciate one another when you're on teams and make other people know that you value them and you see them. It's a real simple exercise. anyone can do. You can do it on your soccer team. You can do it with your bunch of girlfriends on a boozy brunch or you can do it in a corporate setting. And that's something that's really

exciting to me when I see people do that. Let me see here. One of the things I also say is use trust to build bridges, not walls. That's really important as well. And I talk a lot about trust, I would say, because when you're on a team, that really is like the blood of a team. It's the trust that you've created because that trust, by the way, will get you to emotional efficiency as well. It'll get you to that place of like, all right, we're in this together. We can do it. So in order to build trust, you have to take that step forward, ignite the trust through being open and vulnerable and ready to step into whatever is next. If that means you're stepping into a pile of mud, well, you're going to do it together. There's an agreement that you'll

all have about being citizens on a team, that you're all going to do the same thing. You're all going to do it. Or on a team, we all have different roles. But that's my role. My role is to step forward and I'm going to step in mud. And your role is you've got to go climb that ladder, right? It just doesn't really matter. The other thing I talk about is be an energy source. So rather than being a drain on your team, be a source of energy. Radiate. And that could be anything from you're the person on the Monday morning standup that goes, hey, I want to start something. I want to start a fun ritual. Every single Monday morning, I want us to do a fun appreciation circle real quick. Everyone goes around the circle and picks one person to appreciate,

but starting out, right? These things don't have to be hard. I'm not talking about rituals that are anything that have anything to do with the secular world. I'm talking about something enjoyable. Let's go around the circle every Monday morning and say, what do we binge watch this weekend? Something like that, right? So here's a little, this is what I wanted to get to. And there's a little chart I have here. Energy radiates when you say the following. I've got your back.

How can I support you? I believe in you. There's nothing you can break that can't be put back together. Tell me more. Here's what's going on and what it means. Hey, how do you work best? These are all ways that I'm showing with my language that I'm supporting you. I'm creating trust, belonging, and I'm here with you.

And I'm not draining the system. I'm adding to the system. So there's a lot there about being a citizen because I really think when you all put on that jersey together that says you're on the same team, I think there's a lot of pride that can come from that. I love it. And my book that came out last year, also called Passion Struck, I talk about this shift of eliminating toxic influences that drain our energy, both in our personal life and our business life. And I refer to it as a mosquito audit, but it ties into what you were just saying because I was trying to help leaders address gossip, energy vampires, toxic dynamics, and all of those things destroy trust, which was your whole lead-in.

to the citizenship topic. Yeah, it's easy to destroy trust. It's also easy to build trust, but I think that trust can, if we're not careful, trust can be very fragile. So we need to continue to fill up the gas tank, the trust gas tank. We don't want to take advantage of it, take it for granted. Claude, I don't want to leave this interview before I ask you this question because chapter 14 really hit home for me.

You say every decision, and I believe. believe this is true. Every decision leaves a tattoo. Can you share a decision that left a tattoo on you as a leader and what you learned from it? Yes. I would say probably 10 years ago, Gary and we were a very different company there and we were looking to understand who were the top performers in the company and who weren't. And what I should have done was gather all the department heads and team leads together and have a conversation. Instead, what I did was I sent an email out. And that email was then sent to the press. And it didn't look good. Didn't look at us. And that was a moment that is tattooed on me. And not in a bad way, just as a reminder that

face-to-face, or at least phone, is better than an email. And so whenever I have, have to do something, share news that someone might question, I have to do it like this. I have to get us all into the same room, which is, you know what, I'm glad I learned it. I'm glad I tattooed that. Thank you for sharing that. I did want to ask you before we close out,

what do you wish every CEO knew about creating a culture where people just don't just fit in but truly belong and how it could completely change the impact that their company is making, not just on the people within it, but more going back to joyful service, the service that they're providing the world at large. I'm glad you brought it. I'm glad you made it macro too, because, so what I would get every CEO to know is by putting more heart into your organization and by putting more people in there that actually are there to hold space for other people, you create enormous amounts of retention. You create enormous amounts of retention.

enormous amounts of job opportunity being that word of mouth is a lot cheaper than hiring a recruiter. You create a lot of people that are wedded to knowing the fact that you can feel good at work. And that in itself spreads. Because when you go out to lunch with your friend and you go, God, I really love my work culture. It's not a utopia, but I really love it. And they go, I don't like mine. Oh, terrible. Terrible. And that other, I don't like mine. You should go, come check us out. So it's talk about, again, the ripple. Like, I believe happiness and joy spreads. I truly do. And I believe when you come from that place of I work for them, they don't work for me. They know that this is the number one thing I'm doing. Number one thing I'm doing

is really leaning in and hoping to co-cultivate this person's experience within the workplace and make them want to stay and thrive here for a very long time. I want to, I want them to have an incredible growth journey with us. So imagine that scaling. People would be happier at work. I certainly would. Claude, it was so amazing to have you back on Passion Struck. Where's the best place for people to go to learn more about you and your work?

Thank you so much, John. You can go to ClaudeSilver.com. You could go to LinkedIn. I'm always writing something and get back to everyone that writes me back. And you can also go to Be Yourselfbook.com and learn more about the book. Awesome. Well, always such an honor to have you on the show. You're welcome back anytime.

Thank you so much. That's a wrap on today's conversation with Claude Silver. This episode reminds us that belonging isn't built by policies or perks. It's built by presence. Leadership is less about control and more about connection. Here are three key takeaways I hope you carry with you this week. First, authenticity isn't a performance, it's a practice. Second, culture lives in the stories we tell and the compassion we extend.

And when you lead with heart, you don't just inspire others. You invite them to show up fully. If today's episode helped you rethink what leadership means, consider paying the fee by sharing it with someone who needs to hear it and leaving a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcast or Spotify. You can download the free companion workbook for this episode. and explore deeper reflections at the ignited life.net, my substack for living with intention and purpose. You can also catch video versions of the podcast on our YouTube

channels at John R. Miles with Passionstruck clips. Next on Passionstruck, we explore another powerful force, resilience. I sit down with Nick Thompson, CEO of the Atlantic and author of The Running Life, a father, a son, and the simplest sport to explore how running became his lifelong metaphor for endurance, discipline, and meaning. The other thing that's really important is this principle called cognitive offloading. And so that's the principle whereby once you start to rely on a tool, a technological tool to do something, you get worse at it. So you use a calculator all the time.

You forget how to do long division. You use ways you forget how to navigate. That's fine. Who cares? It's better to have a calculator do long division than we do long division. But when it comes to thinking and writing, I don't want to get worse at it. So I don't want to rely on an AI for it. Until next time, lead with empathy, act with intention,

and as always, live life, passion struck.